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MacBytes
Dec 8, 2006, 05:03 AM
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Category: 3rd Party Hardware
Link: Can Zune catch iPod? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20061208060321)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

SPUY767
Dec 8, 2006, 06:59 AM
What a thrilling read. This article answers no questions, it's basically just a parrotting of Microsoft saying, "Yeah, we'll catch iPod. . . eventually. I don't know what they think they have in store to compete with the iPod, but Microsoft still doesn't get cool, and unrfortunately for them, Apple does. End of story, move along please.

BenRoethig
Dec 8, 2006, 07:02 AM
Not likely in the near term, but Apple should be pretty aggressive against the Zune just in case. Making the Mac more attractive to all users could definitely help.

sushi
Dec 8, 2006, 07:12 AM
Can Zune catch iPod?
Good question.

Apple so far has been fairly innovative with the iPod and changes over the years. The new Nano and Shuffle are prime examples.

Based upon Microsoft's initial offering, I would say no. However, we must remember that Microsoft has very deep pockets and may eventually succeed.

Stella
Dec 8, 2006, 09:38 AM
They will succeed in the long term.

microsoft have far more resources ( i.e,. $$$ ) than Apple - and are persistent.

Saying that, if Zune doesn't do anything in 5 or 6 years, then microsoft may well give up.

Personally, I think eventually microsoft will better the iPod in the long term - mainly due to more resources.

princealfie
Dec 8, 2006, 09:39 AM
They will succeed in the long term.

microsoft have far more resources ( i.e,. $$$ ) than Apple - and are persistent.

Saying that, if Zune doesn't do anything in 5 or 6 years, then microsoft may well give up.

Personally, I think eventually microsoft will better the iPod in the long term - mainly due to more resources.

Hahaha, vista goes... woohoo!

nagromme
Dec 8, 2006, 09:50 AM
Actually, people think Microsoft succeeds at everything in the end, from sheer $ resources, but it's not true: Microsoft has had lots of failed product lines, and only a few (but BIG) successful ones. So the odds don't point in Microsoft's favor after all.

The Microcenter I go to has one of the Zunes set up in the iPod section... to make the iPods look better. I overheard salespeople pointing out how thick and bulky the Zune is. They're using the Zune to move iPods? And the customer in question was holding both and puzzled why anyone would want a Zune, so I think it was working.

~Shard~
Dec 8, 2006, 09:58 AM
The only thing the Zune has over the iPod is built-in Wi-Fi but that's still not enough to warrant buying one over an iPod in my opinion.

Rojo
Dec 8, 2006, 10:09 AM
Miscrosoft certainly has deeper pockets, and yes, they're persistent -- but I still think they were too late in the game. If the Zune came out two years earlier, there would have been a much better chance of them competing with iPod.

But people are used to the iPod, like the way it looks and feels, and appreciate its ease of use. Plus, way too many people have bought tons of songs from the iTMS. For them to give ALL of that up for a more harder to use player, that's bulkier/heavier/uglier, that doesn't play their downloaded music, that might not even install on their computer (if they're Mac), that has a music store that could one day become abandoned (like M$ abandonded "Plays For Sure"), and a ton of other reasons -- simply for the limited ability to "squirt" some songs to someone else (if they can even find someone else with a Zune), just doesn't make a lot of sense. And yes, there may be anti iPod people who buy a Zune simply because it's not Apple, but there's not enough of those people to pose any real threat.

M$ MIGHT have had a chance with people who still didn't own an mp3 player, but with all the negative press it's gotten, that's not as likely any more.

If M$ comes out with versions to compete with the Nano and Shuffle, they might have a slightly better chance later on. But would those have the silly gimmicks that make the Zune different than the iPod -- "squirting" and a larger screen? Probably not, and we know Apple will probably always put out the better-designed, smaller, killer flash players.

sushi
Dec 8, 2006, 10:12 AM
The only thing the Zune has over the iPod is built-in Wi-Fi but that's still not enough to warrant buying one over an iPod in my opinion.
Agreed.

Plus the current implementation of the WiFi is very limited in what you can do with it.

Flowbee
Dec 8, 2006, 10:29 AM
They will succeed in the long term.

You mean just like "Plays For Sure" did? Or Maybe Smart Watches (http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/845)? Or WebTV/MSN TV?

puckhead193
Dec 8, 2006, 10:32 AM
No way... if it wasn't for MR and a few other techie sites, i wouldn't even know that MS put out an ipod type of device... who marketed this thing:confused: :eek:

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 8, 2006, 10:35 AM
wel-
come
to the
social

/that explains it all.

dejo
Dec 8, 2006, 10:57 AM
They will succeed in the long term.

microsoft have far more resources ( i.e,. $$$ ) than Apple - and are persistent.

Saying that, if Zune doesn't do anything in 5 or 6 years, then microsoft may well give up.

Personally, I think eventually microsoft will better the iPod in the long term - mainly due to more resources.

Just because you have more resources, doesn't necessarily mean you know how to use them effectively.

As Joel Spolsky wrote (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/11/24.html):

Every piece of evidence I've heard from developers inside Microsoft supports my theory that the company has become completely tangled up in bureaucracy, layers of management, meetings ad infinitum, and overstaffing. The only way Microsoft has managed to hire so many people has been by lowering their hiring standards significantly. In the early nineties Microsoft looked at IBM, especially the bloated OS/2 team, as a case study of what not to do; somehow in the fifteen year period from 1991 - 2006 they became the bloated monster that takes five years to ship an incoherent upgrade to their flagship product.

AdeFowler
Dec 8, 2006, 11:09 AM
Everyone rightly mentions Microsoft's 'Deep pockets', but let's not forget that Apple aren't exactly on the breadline. Apple must continue to innovate and avoid complacency.

IJ Reilly
Dec 8, 2006, 11:21 AM
Actually, people think Microsoft succeeds at everything in the end, from sheer $ resources, but it's not true: Microsoft has had lots of failed product lines, and only a few (but BIG) successful ones. So the odds don't point in Microsoft's favor after all.

True, but if Microsoft manages to capture only 5% of the market and continues to lose money on the effort, they will be seen as having won and Apple as having lost. That's just the way the technology market seems to be aligned: Microsoft can win by losing money and Apple can lose by making money.

dashiel
Dec 8, 2006, 11:36 AM
They will succeed in the long term.

Personally, I think eventually microsoft will better the iPod in the long term - mainly due to more resources.

by that rationale


internet explorer should be the best browser on the market
windows vista should be the best OS on the market
iis should be the best server
msn search should be better than google
the xbox 360 should be the best gaming rig on the market
etc...


size/resources != higher quality/better product. in some cases (office/windows) it may equal market domination.

Silencio
Dec 8, 2006, 12:06 PM
CNN and AP are just regurgitating exactly what M$'s PR department spoon feeds them. Hope it tasted good, you tools!

<Burp>

tutubibi
Dec 8, 2006, 12:55 PM
"From a purely sales performance, I think it's done fine," Baker said. "I didn't expect it to sell zillions of units out of the gate."


Well, things are either hot or not, and Zune is not. How many people are saying "I really want Zune for Christmas"?

Now Microsoft will push it for a long time, may survive on the market and get some market share but by that time, standalone MP3/video players will be dying breed replaced by mobile phones.

rstorm
Dec 8, 2006, 01:01 PM
At some point in the future the Zune could gain traction, but right now all its doing is "skid" marks!

~Shard~
Dec 8, 2006, 02:27 PM
Agreed.

Plus the current implementation of the WiFi is very limited in what you can do with it.

Aw, but come on, you can talk to Zunes with it, what more do you want??? :rolleyes:

:p ;) :D

SMM
Dec 8, 2006, 03:02 PM
Just because you have more resources, doesn't necessarily mean you know how to use them effectively.

As Joel Spolsky wrote (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/11/24.html):


All of that is dead on true. People tend to forget, MS is NOT an innovative company. They have an enormous amount of internal problems. They have image problems.

They have been able to beat back challenges from most of their competitors, but I think Apple is poised to take more market share then MS would like.

I guess the question for me is; how much aspiration should Apple have? As a modest stockholder, I would like to see them with 25% of the total hardware market and 50% of the desktop. But, I would not like to see it come at the expense of becoming another Dell/MS. I would not expect that to happen, but one never knows.

Eric5h5
Dec 8, 2006, 03:03 PM
Well, things are either hot or not, and Zune is not.

The other issue is that it's inherently impossible to manufacture "cool", and in fact when you try--as MS did--you automatically doom your product to uncoolness, and that uncoolness overrides any possible coolness the product might have had if it was just sold on its own terms.

--Eric

tutubibi
Dec 8, 2006, 03:32 PM
Not really related to the original article, but Welcome to the Social tag line is so lame. I am not native English speaker but it sounds like an unfinished sentence to me.
:D

Rojo
Dec 8, 2006, 03:50 PM
The other issue is that it's inherently impossible to manufacture "cool", and in fact when you try--as MS did--you automatically doom your product to uncoolness, and that uncoolness overrides any possible coolness the product might have had if it was just sold on its own terms.

Yep, this was there biggest mistake. The Zune ads just try way too hard.

backspinner
Dec 8, 2006, 05:52 PM
Not really related to the original article, but Welcome to the Social tag line is so lame. I am not native English speaker but it sounds like an unfinished sentence to me.

yeah, I keep thinking "welcome to the social what?"

sushi
Dec 9, 2006, 11:42 PM
Aw, but come on, you can talk to Zunes with it, what more do you want??? :rolleyes:
I guess that is a good feature for those who have only a couple of friends!

;) :p :D

emptyCup
Dec 10, 2006, 05:41 AM
According to Microsoft's projections of sales (article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061206/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_zune)), which may be based on actual sales or wishful thinking, the company expects to sell as many Zunes in 6 months as Apple sells iPods in 5 days. At that rate something will have to seriously change for the Zune to overtake the iPod.

Stella
Dec 10, 2006, 08:40 AM
Nope, not at all.

All of your points are subjective, for example:
" the xbox 360 should be the best gaming rig on the market"
A lot of people think so.

IIS is a better solution compared to others webservers, for some companies.

Of course more resources != better quality, however.

by that rationale


internet explorer should be the best browser on the market
windows vista should be the best OS on the market
iis should be the best server
msn search should be better than google
the xbox 360 should be the best gaming rig on the market
etc...


size/resources != higher quality/better product. in some cases (office/windows) it may equal market domination.

golferjh3
Dec 10, 2006, 10:12 AM
Did Windows catch Macintosh? Yeah. Did IE catch Netscape? Yeah. Did Xbox catch Playstation? Yeah. But, MSN hasn't caught google and Zune might not catch iPod.

~Shard~
Dec 10, 2006, 10:20 AM
Did Windows catch Macintosh? Yeah.

Your statement is flawed. It should be, "Did Windows catch OS X". Macintosh is not an operating system, it is a model of computer. Pardon the pun, but please compare apples to apples. :p

And the answer is no, not "yeah". Vista will deliver what Tiger delivered roughly 2 years ago. Leopard will once again widen that gap in Spring '07. Windows has definitely not caught OS X. :cool: