Apples weakness...

Here in Holland they almost never advertise. Sometimes in magazines, but never on tv. I think many people here don't know about Apple's existance, or just vaguely. I think there are quite a few people here that would want an alternative to windows, but they don't know Apple is still around and doing interesting things with OS X.

It's a missed chance I think, but it's in line with Apple's neglectance of it's non-US userbase. No iTunes store, no iPhoto prints, almost useless Sherlock, and much higher prices. A $400 iPod costs 500 euro, which is more than $530 (but includes tax&shipping)

I see Apple in a number of places. Today I'm in California and I have seen a number of ads. Considering there market share, I don't think that they are under advertised. It seems about right. I don't find their ads annoying or overly present.

If they were to have a weakness, I think that it would be with public precipitin. They do so little to show that most software applications that people use have Mac versions or equivalents.

Correction- Apple's problem is that they are not ruthless to competitors.

I've seen more 12"/17" PB adds on TV in the UK than i have intel ads recently. I'm guessing that it could just be because i'm more likely to notice them.

Is that the first TV ad campain they've run over here? none of the switch ones were ever aired.

apple has only run 15 ads in total over here. Thats right - since OSX was intorduced they have only ever run a total of 15 tv ads - and they were only the PB12/17 ads.

[edit: way out of line here...

personal insults will not be tolerated.]

some people i speak to about Apple are surprised that they're still in business, they think of Apple as some company from the 80's... or something like that. but i think that most PC users are aware of Apple, especially with iTunes coming to Windows, and since the iPod has supported Windows.

benixau, right on. we've hardly had any Apple ads over here, compared with Apples homeland.

Originally posted by cc bcc
Here in Holland they almost never advertise. Sometimes in magazines, but never on tv. I think many people here don't know about Apple's existance, or just vaguely. I think there are quite a few people here that would want an alternative to windows, but they don't know Apple is still around and doing interesting things with OS X.

It's a missed chance I think, but it's in line with Apple's neglectance of it's non-US userbase. No iTunes store, no iPhoto prints, almost useless Sherlock, and much higher prices. A $400 iPod costs 500 euro, which is more than $530 (but includes tax&shipping)

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Coming from the same country, I can confirm that.
If (big, big if...) Apple do advertize, they usually do it where they are well known anyway... The average Joe around here (Jan L**) thinks Apple is dead, or almost. If you tell them you use Macs they usually answer something like "still use a Mac? When are you going to innovate to Windows?". These people just don't know at all, just because nobody is telling them.... (big need for advertisements!)

no apple in the south...

I was born and raised on Long Island, NY and apple now has 3 stores within 30 miles from where I used to live (Soho, Roosevelt Field, and Walt Whitman-coming soon). For the past two years I've lived in Charleston, South Carolina and the only store in the entire state that carries apple products is CompUSA, which is a 3 hour drive away! Therefore, NOBODY in the south knows about apple. I've seen just a few times, the ad with mini-me and yao promoting the 12" and 17" powerbooks on tv here...
my question is...how is apple going to gain market share without some sort of advertising to these smaller markets? There seems to be many wealthy people who migrate to the Charleston, SC and I KNOW that apple products would fit perfectly with thier lifestyles. I think Steve should come on down and see for himself...on the other hand, since I can't seem to find a decent design job here, I'll probably move back to NY soon!!!

-On a side note...I think that Ross on the show Friends last night was using a powerbook while he was sitting in the cafe!

You're really lucky to even see macs in stores in the UK. Apart from the few resellers and oxford/bond street they are really rare. PC World does have them but they're usually tucked away at the back and one or two model / price revisions out of date so you get to pay more for an out-of-date machine.

I too have only ever seen the 12/17 PB ads here. I've seen quite a few folks with ipods on the tube though...

I don't know about NO ONE in the south knowing about Apple...

There are at least five in Florida, if not more, where I lived for 20 years. We also have one in Atlanta, where I am now.

It's not an overwhelming number of stores, but they are out there...

Alia

Re: I don't know about NO ONE in the south knowing about Apple...

First, since I am from Long Island I am allowed to say this...Florida is just "the second NY"! It's where all of us NY'ers go to retire, so I'm not surprised that Florida has so many stores. HA! Seriously though, as I have been recently looking for some design work, I have noticed that Florida has a lot of decent opportunities down there - it seems to be a solid design market, so I'm glad that apple promotes there. It's a similar situation in Atlanta. However, if you take NC, SC, and GA (the good ol' south) you have a total of 3 apple stores...If you take Cali, NY, Florida, (the bigger markets) you have a lot more than 3 stores!

I really think that apple should try to reach a broader consumer market, and I know that will take some time for them.

So, don't mind me...I'm just bitter that I'm a struggling designer, in an area with a really weak design market, and no apple stores or apple resellers close to me!

Originally posted by caveman_uk
I've seen quite a few folks with ipods on the tube though...

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ditto, and not just on the tube.

why cant we all just get along?

What I really think is terrible upon Apple's advertising is that they never show the OS!
It's always the hardware never the greatest and most beautiful Operating System,
Why Apple? Why?

I seen many people just blown away as soon as the see OS X, they just simply have no idea how wonderful Macintosh is because they never seen it, they just seen the rather odd hardware with a heavier price tag and don't even think about the OS that runs it.

I also think Apple should go and be more open to posable customers (I suggested this in another forum) and use the new iTunes Music Store and bring Apple kiosks through out many more malls then Apple Stores.

And be more in you face to that, This is Apple, This is Macintosh, you can do all of This on a Mac. Most of the advertising just seems too idealistic, or just preaching to the quire. Just Look at the other computer commercials out there like Intel, Dell, or even Gateway all of their ads a fairly strait forward and to the point, while you look at Apple's and its more of a wink or a gesture and you have to dig deeper to get the full meaning of the commercial. While some these ads can be cool we sadly learn the first rule of advertising: PEOPLE... DON'T.... GET ....HINTS, they need to be banged over the head with what you what that you are selling and why you are better than everyone else and why they should do business with you other than ever one else.

In conclusion I think Apple's greatest weakness is their snobieness, and some times I wish they would take there head out the sky and lose there elitism, but then again that wouldn't be Apple now would it?

BTW if those new iTunes commercials make it on air I'm going to scream, my god they suck!

In the uk i'd have to agree advertising is a huge one...Not untill I saw how cool apples were in a department store in geneva did i ever notice apple again (before that it was just haha what a funny name, just like acorn...is there a peach too? things like that...and i was studying computing so i should have had more exposure than joe public), and at work (CERN) Robert, co-foundr of the web with Tim was a huge mac fan and he took me to his office to show how amazing apple script was and how nice they were (dunno why, i never asked him about apple). It just seemed to me that most the really intelligent people i knew were mac users, and the most excentric usually ;-). When he told me something called OS X was coming and it was unix then that got me hooked....something easy to use and beautful as a Mac but with the power of unix wow, why didn't anyone think of that earlier. Then he said there was a rumor that there was x86 code in the source code just commented out and it was ready to run on an x86 should apple deceide.

Anyway since then I've only seen macs advertised on the inside cover of a few magazines, the likes of mens health or whatever, and powerbook tv ads...i almost choked when i saw it...i'm seeing things right, tv ad in the uk? When they are in shops they are usually older models and no one are there to advise so people think after playing round that they couldn't use for work and better stick with the 'safe'option. Of course the sales staff push them towards a pc cause they don't know about apples. I chamged an ibook settings to sweedish one time in Dixons and to this day its still like that, they dunno how to even change the settings back. So yeah product placemnt and advertising are the keys. Plus i think they are seen as more of a fashion accessory with the high price, the looks and people not knowing anything about them. I think they could do well to advertise in them sort of female fashion and home magazines where people that buy them have te money and the will to buy something that helps make the home look nice. Annother weakness of course is economy of scale they have with having such small market share.

Another is that if people want to switch they have to re purchase all their software and many arnt willing to do that. Importantly the game issue is huge as if you watch people buy computers the kids are usually an important factor...dad buys the computer for the kids homework, mum and dad look at macs and thing 'hey these look much nicer than them beige boxes'...kid thinks they look cool but he doesn't really want it for his homework, thats his excse, his real reason is to play doom or whatever with his mates so he comes uop with typical excuses why macs are no good (minus the games) and says its much better to get this gforce fx equiped games...ahem...work machine. well thats my theory and what i've noticed in the likes of pc world.

Originally posted by eyelikeart
ok guys...put the flames out and quit the namecalling...

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oops, sorry. No harm intended Eniregnat

Oh yes Games!, this is such also a huge weakness.
I think Apple should be devoting an entire group to bringing games to the Macintosh platform, working more with developers and bring better tools to them (maybe even negotiating exclusives like on consoles ).
Games sell computers. It is always one of the down sides of suggesting to switching to a Mac, this should be fixed.

Re: no apple in the south...

Originally posted by djtet
For the past two years I've lived in Charleston, South Carolina and the only store in the entire state that carries apple products is CompUSA, which is a 3 hour drive away! Therefore, NOBODY in the south knows about apple.

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Umm.. I live in South Carolina but It's the upstate. Is the CompUSA you are refering to the one in Greenville (where I live)? Apple has a pretty good presense in this part of the state. I know of two local Apple user groups. About half my office is Apple computers. Even people I know who don't own apple computers know of them and have considered a purchase.

This may sound weird however. When you speak of SC you are really talking about two unoffical states. The culture between the Upstate and "lower part of the state"(as we call it up here) is totally different.

hey phgreer...

I went to school in Columbia, SC, now live in Charleston, SC, and have a few friends in the "upstate"...greenville and such.

Yup, that's the only apple seller/reseller in the entire state. I had no idea that there were "apple using" going on up there. You guys have room for an intelligent, well-rounded, talented designer up there? I'd like to stay on the east coast, but Charleston just ain't cuttin' it right now!!!

By the way...SC is definately divided between the "low country" and "upstate"...however I can't say anything cause I'm just a Yankee!!! ha!

the weakness is wuss processors.

Originally posted by caveman_uk
You're really lucky to even see macs in stores in the UK. Apart from the few resellers and oxford/bond street they are really rare. PC World does have them but they're usually tucked away at the back and one or two model / price revisions out of date so you get to pay more for an out-of-date machine.

I too have only ever seen the 12/17 PB ads here. I've seen quite a few folks with ipods on the tube though...

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errr - I can see you're not in London, but if you want a computer in London, you go to Tottenham Court Road. There is an Apple reseller (Micro Anvika usually) every 50m or so down there. They have huge plate glass windows, bright lights, and ton and tons of Apple goddies on display. (For you guys that aren't Londoners - similar types of stores are usually found living together over there/here. If you want electronic, you go to TCR. So many stores in one place seems odd, but works for them very very well).

BTW, here in Melboure, there are a couple of Apple stores (which suprised me!) and an Apple tram (a tram that they have painted white, with big pictures of iMacs all over). They also took over >all< the add space at one big station a couple of months ago - that was very very cool. More branding than even in an Apple store!

Originally posted by mim
errr - I can see you're not in London, but if you want a computer in London, you go to Tottenham Court Road. There is an Apple reseller (Micro Anvika usually) every 50m or so down there. They have huge plate glass windows, bright lights, and ton and tons of Apple goddies on display. (For you guys that aren't Londoners - similar types of stores are usually found living together over there/here. If you want electronic, you go to TCR. So many stores in one place seems odd, but works for them very very well).

BTW, here in Melboure, there are a couple of Apple stores (which suprised me!) and an Apple tram (a tram that they have painted white, with big pictures of iMacs all over). They also took over >all< the add space at one big station a couple of months ago - that was very very cool. More branding than even in an Apple store!

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When I said "Apart from the few resellers and oxford/bond street they are really rare." I meant they are rare outside of oxford street and bond street. I work in London and know about TCR but it is just at the end of Oxford Street so I just lumped it in with Oxford Street. MicroAnvika is indeed a good bunch of stores. John Lewis in Bond Street has the full range too. I got my powermac there as it was a 1GHz DP on clearance 'cos it was the previous non-FW800 model.

I've been to one of the Melbourne, Vic Apple resellers. It was very nice. Actually persuaded the wife to let me start buying apples. It was the moment she 'got it'

hmm...In Australia, the advertising does exist nowm but rarely from Apple itself, rather more from resellers. You see Apple ads in magazines like macworld all the time (for obvious reasons), and in the SMH (one of the two only competitors for the most read non-tabloid paper) there are always ads for Apple stores around in the tech sections. There are plenty of Apple Centres around but no actual Apple Stores in Sydney. Oh yeah, Apple advertises on bus-stops as well...and a coupla times on TV...so it's doing alright for people who read tech are exposed to Apple regularly but otherwise, the lack of detail in ads regarding the mac makes people not be too knowledgable about them. unfortunately.