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MacRumors
Dec 12, 2006, 11:38 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has seeded Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) Build 9A321 Client to developers tonight. This comes on the heels of an unconfirmed report (http://www.macshrine.com/2006/12/09/exclusive-leopard-9a326-seeded/) that Apple had seeded build 9A326 internally to employees.

According to various reports, the new seed details few changes from previous seeds, with the usual minor bug fixes and a list of ongoing known issues.

Apple last seeded Leopard (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/11/20061109203449.shtml) in November with Build 9A303.

No word on any user interface upgrades which are expected by some (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/12/20061211135749.shtml) in the final Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard release. While there has been some speculation about an early Leopard release, Apple has officially promised Leopard (http://guides.macrumors.com/Leopard) by Spring 2007.



zigziggityzoo
Dec 12, 2006, 11:43 PM
screenshots? :p

xPismo
Dec 12, 2006, 11:44 PM
...and on the machine churns. Thank you to all the Apple dev's working late and long on our new shiny OS update.

koobcamuk
Dec 12, 2006, 11:49 PM
Not long at all until this is released now. The MWSF seems closer each day. Leopard will be amazing - I am just wondering exactly when I will be jumping on board - day of launch? Week after 6 months after?

Might be finance determined!

Zeromus
Dec 12, 2006, 11:52 PM
I look forward to MWSF more than Christmas ;)

Chundles
Dec 12, 2006, 11:54 PM
Leopard won't be released nor will a shipping date be announced at MWSF.

There will be a big preview of all the new features that we consumers will mostly use (as opposed to the WWDC preview which had some developer focus) and that's all.

I expect Leopard to be released sometime next Autumn (around late March) with the shipping date announced two weeks prior to release.

arn
Dec 12, 2006, 11:55 PM
I look forward to MWSF more than Christmas ;)

There's no real reason to think its coming at MWSF.

Spring 2007. That's the official word.

arn

Hobofuzz
Dec 12, 2006, 11:56 PM
Leopard won't be released nor will a shipping date be announced at MWSF.

There will be a big preview of all the new features that we consumers will mostly use (as opposed to the WWDC preview which had some developer focus) and that's all.

I expect Leopard to be released sometime next Autumn (around late March) with the shipping date announced two weeks prior to release.

For us up North, you mean Spring :P
Silly Aussies with your crazy seasons :D

Chundles
Dec 12, 2006, 11:59 PM
For us up North, you mean Spring :P
Silly Aussies with your crazy seasons :D

Yeah but I don't kowtow to the northern hemisphere norms. Everything I post is relative to where I am, I use A$ for prices, SH seasons for times etc.

Don't you push your Northern agenda on me sunshine.... ;) :D

swingerofbirch
Dec 13, 2006, 12:03 AM
Yeah but I don't kowtow to the northern hemisphere norms. Everything I post is relative to where I am, I use A$ for prices, SH seasons for times etc.

Don't you push your Northern agenda on me sunshine.... ;) :D

I bet you have one of those crazy upside down maps too!

Anyhow March isn't too far off, although when Apple says Spring, its window is pretty big. Spring is March 20 to June 21!

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 12:04 AM
I bet you have one of those crazy upside down maps too!

Anyhow March isn't too far off, although when Apple says Spring, its window is pretty big. Spring is March 20 to June 21!

Or September 20 to December 21.

Oh crap it's still not summer yet.... Gonna be a hot one.

MacSlut
Dec 13, 2006, 12:12 AM
We'd be seeing releases with very few issues, at this point if they were releasing early for MWSF. I think they have enough going on to keep it on schedule for the spring, but maybe show off some of the yet to be announced features at MWSF to counter the Vista press.

mahonmeister
Dec 13, 2006, 12:14 AM
Just a quick question here. Has Apple ever had different "levels" like Windows Business vs Windows Home or has there always been just one? Anyways, it's good to hear that Leopard is progressing along.

Hobofuzz
Dec 13, 2006, 12:15 AM
Or September 20 to December 21.

Oh crap it's still not summer yet.... Gonna be a hot one.

It's so weird how it'll be winter here and you'll be having summer.

I like how Homer called the southern hemisphere "Crazy Opposite land" :D

arn
Dec 13, 2006, 12:16 AM
Just a quick question here. Has Apple ever had different "levels" like Windows Business vs Windows Home or has there always been just one? Anyways, it's good to hear that Leopard is progressing along.

There is Mac OS X Server and Client (regular). Beyond that, there haven't been further breakdowns.

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/

arn

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 12:16 AM
Just a quick question here. Has Apple ever had different "levels" like Windows Business vs Windows Home or has there always been just one? Anyways, it's good to hear that Leopard is progressing along.

Well, to be fair there are two "levels" of OSX, the regular one and OSX Server. The server version just has a bunch of well, server stuff included. It's not going to be a better version for general use than the regular version unlike the Home/Pro divide.

So for practicality there's only one version of OSX.

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 12:19 AM
Just a quick question here. Has Apple ever had different "levels" like Windows Business vs Windows Home or has there always been just one? Anyways, it's good to hear that Leopard is progressing along.

They only have Mac OS X and Mac OS X Server.

In the case of 10.5 that one version of Mac OS X will support PowerPC 32-bit, PowerPC 64-bit, Intel 32-bit, and Intel 64-bit all in one package (DVD).

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 12:19 AM
It's so weird how it'll be winter here and you'll be having summer.

I like how Homer called the southern hemisphere "Crazy Opposite land" :D

Salads, fresh fruit, cold cuts of meat, fresh delicious seafood, at the beach. On Christmas Day.... :D

But enough of that, people, Leopard will not be released for about another 3 months. If it were to be released at MWSF it would be either in Gold Master stage or about a week away. It's not, it's not even close.

Leopard in March folks, not January.

Westbury
Dec 13, 2006, 12:19 AM
So, when they come out with the new OS, will there be a way to "update" your current version? If this is even possible, do you have to pay for the "update"? I've been longing to buy a macbook for it seems like forever and Christmas seems like a good of an excuse as any, but I'm scared something bigger, or i guess smaller in this case, and better will come out the next day and i'll be stuck with the old thing. Do you think there's any reason to wait for MWSF to buy?

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 12:23 AM
So, when they come out with the new OS, will there be a way to "update" your current version? If this is even possible, do you have to pay for the "update"? I've been longing to buy a macbook for it seems like forever and Christmas seems like a good of an excuse as any, but I'm scared something bigger, or i guess smaller in this case, and better will come out the next day and i'll be stuck with the old thing. Do you think there's any reason to wait for MWSF to buy?

All [1] major revisions to Mac OS X (ie 10.3 to 10.4 or 10.4 to 10.5) have been something that you have to purchase (retail box). I wouldn't expect Mac OS X 10.5 to be released at MWSF ... it will likely be a few months later. Also it will likely cost around $129 bucks ($199 for 5 system family pack), not exactly a bank breaker.

Review the following site for details... http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/

[1] Only 10.1 was a free major revision.

Analog Kid
Dec 13, 2006, 12:25 AM
Every January I hope for that one MWSF that's like the Christmas you dreamed of as a kid-- every present you ever asked for sitting under the tree. Apple seems to like slow and steady though-- they'll move up products occasionally (Intel, for example) but they never use one forum to dump half a dozen really exciting products. They're too worried about their business cycle...

Seems like this time of year everything that's in development or hoped to be in development gets tagged with a MWSF release date.

Analog Kid
Dec 13, 2006, 12:29 AM
So, when they come out with the new OS, will there be a way to "update" your current version? If this is even possible, do you have to pay for the "update"? I've been longing to buy a macbook for it seems like forever and Christmas seems like a good of an excuse as any, but I'm scared something bigger, or i guess smaller in this case, and better will come out the next day and i'll be stuck with the old thing. Do you think there's any reason to wait for MWSF to buy?
In general, I recommend buying when you need to but in December, if you can hold off a couple weeks or months, I'd suggest it. Apple seems to like to refresh their products right after the holidays to keep the sales going after the big binge. It's not unusual though for them to show a product at a forum like this and not ship for another month, so steel yourself to that possibility.

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 12:29 AM
So, when they come out with the new OS, will there be a way to "update" your current version? If this is even possible, do you have to pay for the "update"? I've been longing to buy a macbook for it seems like forever and Christmas seems like a good of an excuse as any, but I'm scared something bigger, or i guess smaller in this case, and better will come out the next day and i'll be stuck with the old thing. Do you think there's any reason to wait for MWSF to buy?

Going from 10.4 to 10.5 is more than an Update. It will cost you money to go from 10.4.x to 10.5.

If you have 10.4 on your system when you begin the installation process you're presented with two options:

1. Upgrade (just installs the new components over the old ones - like a patch)

2. Archive and Install (makes a little quarantined area for your old system, installs the new OS fresh and then migrates your apps, docs, music, settings etc over leaving the old system files in a folder you can use until satisfied everything works - then you delete the Previous System folder)'

3. Erase and Install - a fresh, clean slate.

Once you have 10.5 on your system you will get free updates within the version number, so there will be 10.5.1 released a couple of weeks later - that's free if you've got 10.5, as will 10.5.2, 10.5.3 etc.

The MacBooks most likely won't be updated until around the Leopard release in late March - there's just nothing in the hardware pipeline to update to. March will bring a new chipset combining the current Merom processors with a number of updates to bring increased functionality to the Core 2 Duo range.

I'd wait till after MWSF because then you'll get iLife '07 pre-installed on your new Mac. Unlike Leopard, iLife '07 will be released at MWSF and to get it for free will definitely be worth the couple of weeks wait.

retroneo
Dec 13, 2006, 12:32 AM
Just a quick question here. Has Apple ever had different "levels" like Windows Business vs Windows Home or has there always been just one? Anyways, it's good to hear that Leopard is progressing along.

Yeah. There used to be System 7 Pro, that included AppleScript, PowerTalk, PC Exchange and QuickTime.

iMacZealot
Dec 13, 2006, 12:33 AM
I don't think anyone really knows when Leopard will come out. I mean we have an idea, but nobody can tell the exact date the golden seed (or whatever the hell you devs call it) is declared. It'd be REALLY cool if they released is MWSF out of left field to stop Vista in its tracks, but I highly doubt they can do that. As for what I'm looking for at MWSF, I just want my damn iPhone so I can be cell phone-less no longer. Oh, and depending on if they throw in an extra app into it, I may replace Office with iWork '07 but only if it's worth it, if my iMac can handle it, and if my wallet can handle it.

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 12:40 AM
screenshots? :p

You could look over my shoulder. :D

MacVault
Dec 13, 2006, 12:47 AM
You could look over my shoulder. :D

Oh, come on! Tell us! Is there anything to the "Illuminous" rumor?

Enigmac
Dec 13, 2006, 12:48 AM
Can someone please describe this new leopard build? :rolleyes: :D

CJD2112
Dec 13, 2006, 12:48 AM
This is somewhat off topic, but the thread about the GUI is dead and almost buried. Everyone has been hypothesizing on the new "illuminous" rumors of OS (X or XI), mainly assuming it will be mostly black and glossy. Why does it have to be all black? As I was reading I glanced over at the leopard print Apple is currently using for promos/news, and thought why not black and white? Go back to basics. Use black icons instead of blue and then add slight transparency to the drop down menus and finder edges. Perhaps the metal look is replaced with a glossy or darker metal finish with polished edges. As I use Aperture quite regularily and have gotten "Front Row" working on my mac Pro, I am sensing a reflective/mirror look will be uniform through much of the core apps (think iTunes jewel cases in the "Cover Flow" view). Who knows, until it is released it's all fun speculation. I'm more excited for a more refined finish.

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 12:51 AM
Oh, come on! Tell us! Is there anything to the "Illuminous" rumor?

Sorry can't given the NDA. :o

iMacZealot
Dec 13, 2006, 12:52 AM
You could look over my shoulder. :D

By the way, I LOVE you signature!!!

I wonder what a Macworld would be like if Jobs embraced Balmer's tactics....

U2 begins playing....

Jobs: ONE MORE THING!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 12:53 AM
Oh, come on! Tell us! Is there anything to the "Illuminous" rumor?

Different build. The rumoured UI changes apply to the internal 9A326 build, not the recently seeded 9A321 build that this thread deals with.

Enigmac
Dec 13, 2006, 12:59 AM
Different build. The rumoured UI changes apply to the internal 9A326 build, not the recently seeded 9A321 build that this thread deals with.

But how do we know for sure, if this rumored "internal 9A321 build" really exists?

iMacZealot
Dec 13, 2006, 12:59 AM
I doubt we'll see the new UI until MWSF at the earliest...I would think they would want to keep that top secret as long as they can because it would be a big deal *if* they have an overhaul....

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 01:01 AM
But hoe do we know for sure, if this rumored "9A321 build" really exists?

It was just seeded. The developers are downloading it as we speak. It's the 9A326 build that has allegedly been seeded internally (within Apple, the general public won't see it yet) and allegedly has some new UI features.

9A321 is not the question.

Enigmac
Dec 13, 2006, 01:02 AM
It was just seeded. The developers are downloading it as we speak. It's the 9A326 build that has allegedly been seeded internally (within Apple, the general public won't see it yet) and allegedly has some new UI features.

9A321 is not the question.

I know, I mean 9A326. I corrected myself before you posted. How do we know if 9A326 is real?

iMacZealot
Dec 13, 2006, 01:05 AM
Hey, do you think we'l go beyond 10.4.9 and have to go to 10.4.10??? I just think that looks weird and isn't really mathematically correct. Well, numbers with two decimals aren't, but .10 is really the same as .1 .

Oh, and it feels like 10.4.1 just came out yesterday.....

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 01:06 AM
Hey, do you think we'l go beyond 10.4.9 and have to go to 10.4.10??? I just think that looks weird and isn't really mathematically correct. Well, numbers with two decimals aren't, but .10 is really the same as .1 .

Oh, and it feels like 10.4.1 just came out yesterday.....

It's not a decimal so it's highly likely we could see 10.4.10

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 01:07 AM
I know, I mean 9A326. I corrected myself before you posted. How do we know if 9A326 is real?

We don't. That's why I'm not putting any stock into this UI change rumour until I see some collaborating sources.

iMacZealot
Dec 13, 2006, 01:09 AM
Well, being a person with mild undiagnosed OCD (I'm not crazy don't worry), I think I'm just going to stay at 10.4.9 and never upgrade. It's worth it. I can never tell any differences between updates unless if there's a major issue like when Mail broke down in 10.4.1 and was fixed in 10.4.2.

I'M NOT DOING THE MINOR UPGRADE!

swingerofbirch
Dec 13, 2006, 01:10 AM
Maybe we should look for UI clues on the design of the developer site, which looks different from how I remember it.

I LOVE the white text over that darker aqua blue background. That would make a great UI inspiration.

twoodcc
Dec 13, 2006, 02:32 AM
screenshots? :p


my thoughts also :)

still good news though

BillyShears
Dec 13, 2006, 02:52 AM
We can't tell how far away the release is, but in the past by watching the development cycle I think we've had a pretty good idea. Basically when more and more things are fixed, and fewer things are added, we can guess that it's right around the corner.

However, these new "top secret" features throw that whole formula out the window. Those are going to need time to be tested (I presume), so what we may wind up with is a ready-to-release Leopard without the top secret features, followed by buggy seeds with the top secret features. The bugs would be slowly worked out.

In other words, I don't think we can use the old formula this year, until we see what the top secret features are. (It's still interesting to see the new fix/feature ratio in the builds, and it does give us some idea of when it will be ready.)

BWhaler
Dec 13, 2006, 03:46 AM
Hey, do you think we'l go beyond 10.4.9 and have to go to 10.4.10??? I just think that looks weird and isn't really mathematically correct. Well, numbers with two decimals aren't, but .10 is really the same as .1 .

Please, this has been discussed over and over and over again, and it wasn't that interesting the first time.

Please do a search.

Thanks so much.

Cedd
Dec 13, 2006, 03:58 AM
... The MWSF seems closer each day...

It is closer each day ;)

Nicolasdec
Dec 13, 2006, 04:26 AM
I cant wait for OS X leopard it will beat windows vista hands down.

Irish Dave
Dec 13, 2006, 04:34 AM
I cant wait for OS X leopard it will beat windows vista hands down.

I DO HOPE SO !!!!

Dave :)

R.Youden
Dec 13, 2006, 04:37 AM
I wonder what will happen if Leopard isnt really that good and there are no "top secret" features? Thinking back 2 years everyone said how great Tiger would be but I don't see many real benefits over Panther. OK we have dashboard for which I only use one widget and Spotlight which is cool but not a huge thing and was it worth the 69? I really hope that Leopard will raise the bar but I think alot of people are expecting far too much from it. Only time will tell I suppose.

koobcamuk
Dec 13, 2006, 04:55 AM
I cant wait for OS X leopard it will beat windows vista hands down.

OSX Tiger beats vista hands down. Tiger really is a great system OS. I don't know when I will be upgrading to Leopard. Part of me want's to upgrade straight away - but I need to feel the benefits. I guess it will run on my iMac G5 nicely and also the MacBook, but Tiger works very nicely indeed. I don't *need* time-machine (hopefully) as I use SuperDuper! and find it a great app.

Spaces seem cool but again, I don't think I *need* them - but I am sure I would use them if I had them as they look useful.

Apart from that, we'll see what they pull out of the bag. I would prefer a March release because that's when I get paid next.

FF_productions
Dec 13, 2006, 05:42 AM
Apart from that, we'll see what they pull out of the bag. I would prefer a March release because that's when I get paid next.

I think we'll get a full-blown out preview at MWSF, but it will be released in Spring. We all hope it comes out at MWSF, but even Apple is TELLING us Spring 2007.

aswitcher
Dec 13, 2006, 05:45 AM
I think it may be released at Mac World or when iTV is released because it will be required to take full advantage of new wireless and multimedia stuff Apple will be putting out.

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 05:47 AM
I think we'll get a full-blown out preview at MWSF, but it will be released in Spring. We all hope it comes out at MWSF, but even Apple is TELLING us Spring 2007.

Yep. We won't see Leopard released until Autumn, I've got my money on very, very late March.

I don't even hope for a MWSF release, it's waaaay too close for it to go from what it is now to a fully stable OSX release. It would need to be in manufacturing now for a MWSF release, not seeing just another developer seed.

I think it may be released at Mac World or when iTV is released because it will be required to take full advantage of new wireless and multimedia stuff Apple will be putting out.

Won't be at MWSF. We may see "iTV" at MWSF because it has it's own little OS and a simple 10.4.x update could include it as supported hardware. But to be honest I think March is going to be a massive month.

dernhelm
Dec 13, 2006, 06:57 AM
It's not a decimal so it's highly likely we could see 10.4.10

Or 10.4.A...

Since it isn't really a number, we could always mix and match decimal and hex.

WildPalms
Dec 13, 2006, 07:17 AM
Leopard in January (Winter) folks, not March (almost Fall)

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 07:21 AM
Leopard in January (Winter) folks, not March (almost Fall)

No, Leopard in Autumn (March) not Summer (January).

It's now less than four weeks till MWSF, do you honestly think Apple are going to seed a number of release candidates and a gold master and then go into production in that time? No.

Apple themselves said Northern Hemisphere Spring so MWSF is totally out of the question.

50548
Dec 13, 2006, 07:26 AM
They only have Mac OS X and Mac OS X Server.

In the case of 10.5 that one version of Mac OS X will support PowerPC 32-bit, PowerPC 64-bit, Intel 32-bit, and Intel 64-bit all in one package (DVD).

And, for the record, that's something that Windows will NEVER offer in one package...thanks, Apple.

But I second Chundles on this, being a guy from the South living in the North...:D

Leopard next Spring North/Autumn South, NOT Winter North/Summer South...:D

metfoo
Dec 13, 2006, 07:29 AM
the interface in this build has been consistent with previous builds. This build appears to be much cleaner than pervious builds, and the installer interface has been revamped. I cant say any more without violating my nda

Fotek2001
Dec 13, 2006, 07:33 AM
I wonder what will happen if Leopard isnt really that good and there are no "top secret" features? Thinking back 2 years everyone said how great Tiger would be but I don't see many real benefits over Panther. OK we have dashboard for which I only use one widget and Spotlight which is cool but not a huge thing and was it worth the 69? I really hope that Leopard will raise the bar but I think alot of people are expecting far too much from it. Only time will tell I suppose.

There's a lot more to Tiger than Dashboard and Spotlight. We have a computer in our office running Panther and there are so many little things that it doesn't have that it's a pleasure to go back to using Tiger afterwards.

As a select developer with Apple's ADC, I can safely say that there's a lot in Leopard that developers have been crying out for. I would expect that a big reason to upgrade will be because many applications with some very nifty features will only be supported on Leopard.

geerlingguy
Dec 13, 2006, 07:55 AM
Just a quick question here. Has Apple ever had different "levels" like Windows Business vs Windows Home or has there always been just one?

Apple once had a crazy scheme they were going to use with OSX with 'red box' or 'orange box' or 'blue box' (some colors, I don't remember which ones...) for versions of OS X to run on PowerPC, Intel, etc., along with a version of OS X server.

But then someone knocked some sense into Apple again and consolidated it all into OS X client (which we run) and OS X server, with different price points.

And many years ago, Apple sold Mac OS, Apple PRODOS, and some other variants for the Apple ][, Macintosh, and Lisa computers all at the same time...

But never has Apple charged people ridiculous prices (like that of Vista Business) for features which should be included in the standard OS package.

MacVault
Dec 13, 2006, 08:05 AM
the interface in this build has been consistent with previous builds. This build appears to be much cleaner than pervious builds, and the installer interface has been revamped. I cant say any more without violating my nda

Hey metfoo... what do you mean by that? First you say this build has been consistent, and then you say it appears to be much cleaner than previous builds (sounds like a contradiction). And which build are you talking about? 9A326?

sachamun
Dec 13, 2006, 08:07 AM
Hey metfoo... what do you mean by that? First you say this build has been consistent, and then you say it appears to be much cleaner than previous builds (sounds like a contradiction). And which build are you talking about? 9A326?

Read the thread first....9A321 was the one just seeded. He said the interface was consistent, meaning the look is the same as previous builds.

MacVault
Dec 13, 2006, 08:10 AM
Read the thread first....9A321 was the one just seeded. He said the interface was consistent, meaning the look is the same as previous builds.

But he says it "appears to be much cleaner than previous builds". Doesn't sound the same to me :confused:

thejadedmonkey
Dec 13, 2006, 08:35 AM
But he says it "appears to be much cleaner than previous builds". Doesn't sound the same to me :confused:

Obviously he wants to say more, but can't due to his NDA

TheBobcat
Dec 13, 2006, 08:54 AM
Leopard in January (Winter) folks, not March (almost Fall)

No, Leopard in Autumn (March) not Summer (January).

WHAT THE HELL SEASON IS IT????!! SOMEONE STOP THIS MADNESS!!!

Oh and for the record, Leopard will be released in Smarch.

hagjohn
Dec 13, 2006, 09:04 AM
Some what... I believe that all 4 versions of Vista will be on 1 DVD. There will be 4 different boxes though, depending on how elaborate you want your version to be.

You will be able to upgrade your Version of Vista buy just buying a new key, but you will be able to use the same DVD you have.

But I get your point... Apple makes it simple (1 version) but Windows seems to be getting more complicated.

And, for the record, that's something that Windows will NEVER offer in one package...thanks, Apple.

ryanw
Dec 13, 2006, 09:30 AM
Just a quick question here. Has Apple ever had different "levels" like Windows Business vs Windows Home or has there always been just one? Anyways, it's good to hear that Leopard is progressing along.

Mac OSX has always had "Server" and "Client" versions.

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/

and

Non-server (which you would refer to as "home" I guess)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html

Rocketman
Dec 13, 2006, 09:34 AM
There's a lot more to Tiger than Dashboard and Spotlight. We have a computer in our office running Panther and there are so many little things that it doesn't have that it's a pleasure to go back to using Tiger afterwards.

As a select developer with Apple's ADC, I can safely say that there's a lot in Leopard that developers have been crying out for. I would expect that a big reason to upgrade will be because many applications with some very nifty features will only be supported on Leopard.

One thing I really like about Apple OS updates is they are either cheap or free. They tend NOT to break things that already work unlike what DOS and especially windows did. Extreme version for MS apps.

Rocketman

metfoo
Dec 13, 2006, 09:38 AM
The interface has the same small improvements that previous seeds have had. Theres nothing dramatically new in this seed.

I basically meant the overall OS is looking more and more liek a finished product. I havent had any random crashes due to major bugs in the applications. The installer is MUCH nicer and user freindly. In 10.3 and 10.4 builds, the installer was one of teh last things to get modified.

I havent played around too much, because the seed just came out yesterday.

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 09:41 AM
One thing I really like about Apple OS updates is they are either cheap or free.

In Apple language...

"upgrade" = major revision = 10.3.x (Panther) to 10.4 (Tiger) = paid for (retail box) or with new systems

"update" = minor revision = 10.4.7 to 10.4.8 = free, available via software update

Clive At Five
Dec 13, 2006, 09:47 AM
... Apple makes it simple (1 version) but Windows seems to be getting more complicated.

Look at it this way: MS sets a base price of $199. Then they say, "for each different version, we can separate the MSRP by $50 or $100." Lastly they say, "How many versions can we cram in." Then answer is four, and the result is a $399 payment on the only complete OS in the Windows Vista lineup.

For reference XP Pro was $299, and even that was ridiculous. I'd rather pay $169 every 18 months for a "Pro" OS that was stadle and had rockin' features rather than $399 every 5 years for an OS that won't be stable until SP1 and will require a hardware upgrade to run.

Oh, by the way, my 800MHz iMac runs Tiger like a dream and the same will probably be true with Leopard (I may need more RAM though). Try running Vista on a 5-year-old PC... yeah right.

-Clive

Fotek2001
Dec 13, 2006, 10:05 AM
Apple once had a crazy scheme they were going to use with OSX with 'red box' or 'orange box' or 'blue box' (some colors, I don't remember which ones...) for versions of OS X to run on PowerPC, Intel, etc., along with a version of OS X server.

But then someone knocked some sense into Apple again and consolidated it all into OS X client (which we run) and OS X server, with different price points.

That's not quite right actually... Yellow Box was an implementation of what is now the Cocoa framework which was ported to run on Windows. Broadly speaking, it would allow you to run any Cocoa application natively on Windows using the familiar Cocoa user interface elements present in Mac OS X prior to public release and previously in OpenStep.

Blue Box still exists in Mac OS X as the Classic runtime environment. It was called Blue Box as a code name before Mac OS X was released.

Lepton
Dec 13, 2006, 10:12 AM
My guess is that they are wrapping up the pre-MWSF development of Leopard.

At MWSF, they will announce those 'top secret' features, which I believe will include a new Finder, new visual look, Blu-Ray stuff, new wireless stuff like pre-n for iTV and other things, better Bluetooth for new iPods, etc. Tons of stuff. I also expect several amazing hardware announcements. They will also announce a Leopard release date.

They will have folded a bunch of this in and will release a new Leopard preview to developers, who finally will start testing the whole shebang. Other than that, not much will happen at MWSF.

joeshell383
Dec 13, 2006, 10:18 AM
And, for the record, that's something that Windows will NEVER offer in one package...thanks, Apple.

But I second Chundles on this, being a guy from the South living in the North...:D

Leopard next Spring North/Autumn South, NOT Winter North/Summer South...:D

Stop it with the seasons. Just use months!

sachamun
Dec 13, 2006, 10:21 AM
WHAT THE HELL SEASON IS IT????!! SOMEONE STOP THIS MADNESS!!!

Oh and for the record, Leopard will be released in Smarch.

Chundles is in Australia, and some of us Aussies (just speaking for myself here) don't like the fact that most of the net is Ameri-centric, so we prefer so speak in our own seasons/currencies/slang etc., even when it's clearly less practical. :D

VL-Tone
Dec 13, 2006, 10:22 AM
That's not quite right actually... Yellow Box was an implementation of what is now the Cocoa framework which was ported to run on Windows. Broadly speaking, it would allow you to run any Cocoa application natively on Windows.

Blue Box still exists in Mac OS X only now it's called Classic.

You're right that Boxes were parts of the OS, not the OS itself. You're also right about the Blue Box.

But you're wrong about Yellow Box.

Yellow Box IS what was renamed Cocoa. Yellow Box (now Cocoa) is part of all versions of Mac OS X, it's not a Windows thing in itself.

What you're describing is what was appropriately called "Yellow Box for Windows", and as we know was never released (though OpenStep did have its APIs available to run under Windows).

It should be noted that Quicktime for Windows includes a good chunk of the Carbon APIs, to run the player and iTunes (and that overhead explains why iTunes for Windows is slower than on the Mac).

There was also the Red Box, which was rumored to be Win32 APIs on Mac OS X, pretty much like some think may be included in Leopard, but certainly won't, as Apple officially stated that 10.5 won't include Windows virtualization or APIs.

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 10:24 AM
Stop it with the seasons. Just use months!

But it's so much fun messing with the minds of the northern hemisphere folks.

Two things will NOT happen at MWSF.

1. Release of Leopard.
2. Announcement of shipping date.

The shipping date will be announced two weeks prior to shipping, Macs purchased in the window will be eligible for the free (plus postage and handling) upgrade to Leopard, any Macs bought before the announcement won't be eligible.

Apple won't be extending this policy out to nearly three months by announcing a date at MWSF.

I guess most of the people expecting some sort of definite announcement at MWSF are experiencing their first OSX 10.x upgrade. The last two shipping dates were announced by surprise online with little to no prior fanfare from Apple, certainly not a major show. There is also a long way to go before the OS will be ready, we still haven't seen developer builds with very few features, let alone release candidates.

Leopard won't be till March at least, with the shipping date announced 2 weeks ahead of time.

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 10:24 AM
Apple once had a crazy scheme they were going to use with OSX with 'red box' or 'orange box' or 'blue box' (some colors, I don't remember which ones...) for versions of OS X to run on PowerPC, Intel, etc., along with a version of OS X server.

This isn't correct... the "boxes" were not different versions of Mac OS X but code names (coined based on the color of their boxes on a slide set) for application development/runtime environments (components of Mac OS X).

"Blue box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_(Mac_OS_X))" was the code name for the Classic Mac OS compatibility environment that is part of Mac OS X that loads Mac OS 9 inside of Mac OS X for Classic applications. It was never something that Apple attempted to sell or package separately.

"Yellow Box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_%28API%29)" was the code name for the OpenStep framework that became the Cocoa framework on Mac OS X, one of the main/major application development environments on Mac OS X. Again it was never something that Apple was going to sell or package separately.

"Yellow Box for Windows", in many ways a hold over from OpenStep / NeXT, was an implementation of the OpenStep framework that could be installed on top of Microsoft Windows. It allowed (fat) OpenStep applications to run on Windows systems. Apple never really did anything with this once they purchased NeXT and it died soon afterwards (Apple dropped licensing and support of it).

"Red Box" is in general a myth.

I don't think the Carbon environment ever got a "box" color... but it has been a while (looking for the old Rhapsody slide sets). Basically the Carbon name was already defined / known so they didn't have to give it a place holder name like the others.

JFreak
Dec 13, 2006, 10:30 AM
Isn't it exciting to guess when the next OSX version comes out? For sure everyone here buys whatever Apple produces whenever it's available.. so the guessing is actually useless :)

We are mad people.

MacVault
Dec 13, 2006, 10:35 AM
My guess is that they are wrapping up the pre-MWSF development of Leopard.

At MWSF, they will announce those 'top secret' features, which I believe will include a new Finder, new visual look, Blu-Ray stuff, new wireless stuff like pre-n for iTV and other things, better Bluetooth for new iPods, etc. Tons of stuff. I also expect several amazing hardware announcements. They will also announce a Leopard release date.

They will have folded a bunch of this in and will release a new Leopard preview to developers, who finally will start testing the whole shebang. Other than that, not much will happen at MWSF.

I sure hope you're right about all that!

gugy
Dec 13, 2006, 10:53 AM
My guess is that they are wrapping up the pre-MWSF development of Leopard.

At MWSF, they will announce those 'top secret' features, which I believe will include a new Finder, new visual look, Blu-Ray stuff, new wireless stuff like pre-n for iTV and other things, better Bluetooth for new iPods, etc. Tons of stuff. I also expect several amazing hardware announcements. They will also announce a Leopard release date.

They will have folded a bunch of this in and will release a new Leopard preview to developers, who finally will start testing the whole shebang. Other than that, not much will happen at MWSF.

Lepton,
I agree with you on most of your comments. The only thing I am pretty sure might not happen is "I also expect several amazing hardware announcements" Historically Apple introduces no more than 2 new hardware products at MWSF. Plus, the keynote is no longer than 2 hours in duration. So with:
•Leopard Preview
•state of Apple (mac sales, itunes sales, ipod sales, market share, etc.)
•new iLife and iWork demonstration
•2 new products (iPhone and new smaller Mac Book?)

That will take most of Steve's time.

I am trying to be realistic here. Most of the time people have a huge list of things that will happen and then after the keynote the whole whining starts. But, I guess this is a norm in any rumors site anyway!:p

Squonk
Dec 13, 2006, 10:58 AM
Or 10.4.A...

Since it isn't really a number, we could always mix and match decimal and hex.

Not likely. What is wrong with 10.4.10? I can't believe this is going around the block again... :rolleyes:

OwlsAndApples
Dec 13, 2006, 11:04 AM
I am trying to be realistic here. Most of the time people have a huge list of things that will happen and then after the keynote the whole whining starts. But, I guess this is a norm in any rumors site anyway!:p

Amen to that! Soon there will be part of the social system devoted purely to 'online-digital-products-release-date-rumours-addiction-syndrome-rehabilitationism'...;)

SPUY767
Dec 13, 2006, 11:12 AM
There is Mac OS X Server and Client (regular). Beyond that, there haven't been further breakdowns.

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/

arn

And furthermore, the difference between an XP Pro install and an XP home or Media Center install is purely skin deep. A few utilities are removed from the System32 folder which disables some of the more advanced system configuration features, the features are still there however, and can be acessed via more cryptic means. Basically Microsoft is charging twice as much for exactly the same product with only a few of the teeth removed from the cheaper verison. Ahh, Brand Management at its most spectacular. Someone, before SP2 came out, released a utility that would replace and properly configure all of the files which were removed. Media center, by contrast has some BS media features which rarely if ever get used mainly because of the fact that media center's biggest install base is laptops which are rarely used as media centers.

mixgrafix
Dec 13, 2006, 11:14 AM
Salads, fresh fruit, cold cuts of meat, fresh delicious seafood, at the beach. On Christmas Day.... :D

But enough of that, people, Leopard will not be released for about another 3 months. If it were to be released at MWSF it would be either in Gold Master stage or about a week away. It's not, it's not even close.

Leopard in March folks, not January.


The last time I was in Australia on Christmas I was diving the wreck of the Yongala off of Port Douglas.

I wish I was doing that this year. :(

Chundles
Dec 13, 2006, 11:17 AM
The last time I was in Australia on Christmas I was diving the wreck of the Yongala off of Port Douglas.

I wish I was doing that this year. :(

Oooo, awesome.

Might be spending Chrissy Day at my grandfather's place on Sydney Harbour. We're trying to change it to Boxing Day so we can watch the start of the Sydney to Hobart yacht race.

I think the bloke up further who listed 4 items for the MWSF keynote got it just right. No Leopard release or shipping announcement, just a big-arse preview of it and iLife '07/iWork '07.

devman
Dec 13, 2006, 11:25 AM
The interface has the same small improvements that previous seeds have had. Theres nothing dramatically new in this seed.

I basically meant the overall OS is looking more and more liek a finished product. I havent had any random crashes due to major bugs in the applications. The installer is MUCH nicer and user freindly. In 10.3 and 10.4 builds, the installer was one of teh last things to get modified.

I havent played around too much, because the seed just came out yesterday.

Let your mouse pointer hover over a Safari tab... :)

say no more

59031
Dec 13, 2006, 11:33 AM
Salads, fresh fruit, cold cuts of meat, fresh delicious seafood, at the beach. On Christmas Day.... :D


Big deal. I had that too, growing up and I grew up in the Northern Hemisphere - In Hawaii. And don't forget those who live in Florida.

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 11:36 AM
Big deal. I had that too, growing up and I grew up in the Northern Hemisphere - In Hawaii. And don't forget those who live in Florida. ...or most southern states and of course southern/central California.

Clive At Five
Dec 13, 2006, 11:56 AM
...or most southern states and of course southern/central California.

Bah. If you ignore the "beach" part, I can get all those things you are talking about in Minnesota............ at a grocery store.......... with exception of the fresh seafood, but that's impossible to snag this far inland, unless you dine at one of the three places that has fresh frozen seafood delivered in daily. I, personally am fine with week-old frozen seafood from Red Lobster. Plus their biscuits are mmm mmm mmm... damn... that sounds good.

And to add something relevant so this post doesn't get deleted, "yay for Macs."

-Clive

Josephkyles
Dec 13, 2006, 12:28 PM
Bah. If you ignore the "beach" part, I can get all those things you are talking about in Minnesota............ at a grocery store.......... with exception of the fresh seafood, but that's impossible to snag this far inland, unless you dine at one of the three places that has fresh frozen seafood delivered in daily. I, personally am fine with week-old frozen seafood from Red Lobster. Plus their biscuits are mmm mmm mmm... damn... that sounds good.

And to add something relevant so this post doesn't get deleted, "yay for Macs."

-Clive

I pity the fool who thinks Red Lobster is real seafood!

MacsRgr8
Dec 13, 2006, 12:32 PM
But it's so much fun messing with the minds of the northern hemisphere folks.

Two things will NOT happen at MWSF.

1. Release of Leopard.
2. Announcement of shipping date.

The shipping date will be announced two weeks prior to shipping, Macs purchased in the window will be eligible for the free (plus postage and handling) upgrade to Leopard, any Macs bought before the announcement won't be eligible.

Apple won't be extending this policy out to nearly three months by announcing a date at MWSF.

I guess most of the people expecting some sort of definite announcement at MWSF are experiencing their first OSX 10.x upgrade. The last two shipping dates were announced by surprise online with little to no prior fanfare from Apple, certainly not a major show. There is also a long way to go before the OS will be ready, we still haven't seen developer builds with very few features, let alone release candidates.

Leopard won't be till March at least, with the shipping date announced 2 weeks ahead of time.

Not expecting a real shipping date, but more of a confirmation that "Leopard is right on schedule for an <insert late or early> SPRING release".

Yes... Spring. definitely.
That means you lot on the bottom of the earth will have to wait about 6 months for it.
:D

Clive At Five
Dec 13, 2006, 12:47 PM
I pity the fool who thinks Red Lobster is real seafood!

I know I've had real shrimp there before... beyond that, you're probably right. Regardless, if it's flaky white meat drowned in butter, I'm a happy man.

Again, "Yay for Macs."

-Clive

kalisphoenix
Dec 13, 2006, 12:56 PM
...or most southern states and of course southern/central California.

Or Ohio, if you have a Giant Eagle-esque store that has a big aquarium full of live lobster...

MacVault
Dec 13, 2006, 01:01 PM
I pity the fool who thinks Red Lobster is real seafood!

Ha! You got that right! But that's (generally) what's different about folks in the midwest - they just don't care about or even know about good/real/organic/pure food. Check out the difference between the food joints in the Portland, OR airport which serves good, fresh, organic, REAL food and the St Paul, MN airport which serves hotdogs, donuts, and hamburgers. I'm from Oregon and man I just about starved in the St Paul, MN airport. I finally found the Maui Taco stand hidden way over in the corner. ORD has good Pizza ;) But, yea, generally in the midwest USA it's harder to find fast food joints with good, fresh food than out on the west coast. At least that's my experience.

Let the flaming begin ;)

Virtualball
Dec 13, 2006, 01:06 PM
Or Ohio, if you have a Giant Eagle-esque store that has a big aquarium full of live lobster...

Ahaha, I have a Giant Eagle right across the street!

(They're getting sued btw for being a monopoly XD)

kalisphoenix
Dec 13, 2006, 01:23 PM
Ahaha, I have a Giant Eagle right across the street!

(They're getting sued btw for being a monopoly XD)

It's not over their gas discounts, is it? Because I really like being able to fill our car up with gas for under $2.

justflie
Dec 13, 2006, 01:32 PM
yay for me living in new england

and "yay for macs"


and yay for my Wii i'm gonna buy this weekend! All those rumors of iTV/some kind of gaming might be true. The Wii looks and feels like an apple product. Even their menu scheme screams aqua. :)

MacsRgr8
Dec 13, 2006, 01:33 PM
Hey!!

No hijacking of this thread!
And now you got me all hungry... :p

BollywooD
Dec 13, 2006, 02:06 PM
from the net:
apparently the new build has support for ZFS.

Peaceful
Dec 13, 2006, 02:52 PM
...At MWSF, they will announce those 'top secret' features, which I believe will include a new Finder,
...

That would be enough for me right there. My biggest complaints have always been 1) the finder, and 2) no built-in virtual desktops (yay for Apple-supported virtual desktops!).

Let's see a new finder! Say it with me now: NEW FINDER!

Peaceful
Dec 13, 2006, 02:55 PM
from the net:
apparently the new build has support for ZFS.

That would be stellar.

metfoo
Dec 13, 2006, 02:56 PM
from the net:
apparently the new build has support for ZFS.

i havent confirmed on my build at home, but another source did confirm this for me. Disk utility has other changes as well

arn
Dec 13, 2006, 03:01 PM
ZFS is confirmed.

Also a new feature-describing installer.

photo:

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 03:34 PM
i havent confirmed on my build at home, but another source did confirm this for me. Disk utility has other changes as well

Please lets not break our NDAs.

metfoo
Dec 13, 2006, 03:41 PM
Please lets not break out NDAs.

I paid the $500 annual ADC select subscription fee. My home machine is where that seed applies

BillyShears
Dec 13, 2006, 03:50 PM
Please lets not break out NDAs.

This view confuses me. You're on a rumours site, where do you think this insider information comes from? Most are probably from people who signed NDAs.

The only other ways really of getting rumours are educated guesses (sometimes accurate, but not usually very specific) and Time magazine leaks ;)

(By the way, I only notice people mention NDAs when we're talking about OS X. NDAs would likely apply to virtually any rumour we hear about, hardware or software. It always seemed like people make the association between NDA and OS X ever since those developers got sued for leaking builds.)

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 04:42 PM
I paid the $500 annual ADC select subscription fee. My home machine is where that seed applies

Which means you agreed to the NDA and shouldn't be talking about the seed... that was my point.

shawnce
Dec 13, 2006, 04:44 PM
This view confuses me. You're on a rumours site, where do you think this insider information comes from? Most are probably from people who signed NDAs.

Like me... I have seed access and agreed to the NDA.

I am trying to encourage folks to not break it (in this case I know the individual has seed access and agreed to the NDA terms). Folks casually breaking it is one of the reasons we don't get access to some of the new features until very late in the release cycle...

BillyShears
Dec 13, 2006, 05:21 PM
Like me... I have seed access and agreed to the NDA.

I am trying to encourage folks to not break it (in this case I know the individual has seed access and agreed to the NDA terms). Folks casually breaking it is one of the reasons we don't get access to some of the new features until very late in the release cycle...

Right, but by being on a rumours site you seem to be implying you want people to break their NDA. Unless you only object to "casually breaking" the NDA, though I'm not sure what the difference is.

WildPalms
Dec 13, 2006, 06:09 PM
No, Leopard in Autumn (March) not Summer (January).

It's now less than four weeks till MWSF, do you honestly think Apple are going to seed a number of release candidates and a gold master and then go into production in that time? No.

Apple themselves said Northern Hemisphere Spring so MWSF is totally out of the question.

Hehe, you missed my witty attempt.... in case I was too vague, I mixed the hemispherical seasons....*sigh* ....my humor is too left field. Until macrumors.com gets a .au at the end, the context will be US seasons :D

MacVault
Dec 13, 2006, 08:02 PM
That would be enough for me right there. My biggest complaints have always been 1) the finder, and 2) no built-in virtual desktops (yay for Apple-supported virtual desktops!).

Let's see a new finder! Say it with me now: NEW FINDER!

You have my vote! NEW FINDER! NEW FINDER! NEW FINDER! NEW FINDER!

MacVault
Dec 13, 2006, 08:05 PM
That would be stellar.

I have to admit I don't really know the difference between ZFS and the current file system, but I've heard/read that ZFS rules, so it sounds stellar to me! :D

MacVault
Dec 14, 2006, 05:03 AM
ZFS is confirmed.

Also a new feature-describing installer.

photo:

Are there any other sites confirming this ZFS? I hope this is real!!!

WildPalms
Dec 14, 2006, 08:11 AM
Hmm.......Australians arent real smart are they. Oh well, thats why we Americans control the modern world and make the big decisions that take care of the smaller folk :cool:

Chundles
Dec 14, 2006, 08:15 AM
Hmm.......Australians arent real smart are they. Oh well, thats why we Americans control the modern world and make the big decisions that take care of the smaller folk :cool:

Yup, we sur ar dum.

thestaton
Dec 14, 2006, 08:15 AM
so what's the advantages of ZFS of HFS?

MacBoobsPro
Dec 14, 2006, 08:16 AM
Hmm.......Australians arent real smart are they. Oh well, thats why we Americans control the modern world and make the big decisions that take care of the smaller folk :cool:

Like wars and stuff :D

Diatribe
Dec 14, 2006, 08:27 AM
ZFS is confirmed.

Also a new feature-describing installer.

photo:

So they are abandoning HFS+?

jlewis2k1
Dec 14, 2006, 09:53 AM
ok could someone explain to me what is ZFS and the difference that is from the current HFS and HFS+?

Diatribe
Dec 14, 2006, 10:00 AM
ok could someone explain to me what is ZFS and the difference that is from the current HFS and HFS+?

Look in Wikipedia under ZFS and HFS it's all explained nicely there.

jlewis2k1
Dec 14, 2006, 10:16 AM
so basically the difference is that ZFS can hold more information (2 EB) and that its 128bit and the HFS is only 64bit and can hold less information (2 GB)?

shawnce
Dec 14, 2006, 10:30 AM
so basically the difference is that ZFS can hold more information (2 EB) and that its 128bit and the HFS is only 64bit and can hold less information (2 GB)?

Huh? I guess you are comparing HFS against XFS not HFS plus against XFS. Mac OS X uses HFS plus as its default filesystem.

HFS+ (HFS plus) supports a maximum file size of 8 EiB [1], maximum volume size is in general unlimited (requires scaling of allocation block size which increases wasted space for small files) and in general an unlimited number of files and files per folder (only limited by blocks available on disk).

XFS supports a maximum file size of 8 EiB, maximum volume size of 16 EiB [2] and in general an unlimited number of files and files per folder (only limited by blocks available on disk).

[1] Wikipedia says 16 EiB but I believe it is wrong unless they recovered the 64th bit during some revision to HFS+.
[2] Wikipedia says 8 EiB but I believe it is wrong.

jlewis2k1
Dec 14, 2006, 10:34 AM
Huh?

HFS+ supports a maximum file size of 8 EiB [1], maximum volume size of 8 EiB [1] and effectively an unlimited number of files and files per folder (only limited by blocks available on disk).

XFS supports a maximum file size of 8 EiB, maximum volume size of 16 EiB [2] and effectively an unlimited number of files and files per folder (only limited by blocks available on disk).

[1] Wikipedia says 16 EiB but I believe it is wrong unless they recovered the 64th bit during some revision to HFS+.
[2] Wikipedia says 8 EiB but I believe it is wrong.


XFS? i thought it was ZFS?

MacVault
Dec 14, 2006, 10:37 AM
ZFS is confirmed...

Arn, is that really all you can tell us right now???

shawnce
Dec 14, 2006, 10:46 AM
XFS? i thought it was ZFS?

Oops yeah folks are talking about ZFS :o

So for ZFS we are looking at 16 EiB for max file size and file system (size) and it has the concept of volume management considered at the file system level which is something that HFS+ doesn't have. The later allows much more dynamic file systems that can grow and shrink as new disks/partitions are added as well as move between disks.

Also it has the concept of snapshoting at the file allocation block level which is a nice feature (most snapshoting happens at the disk block-level).

Peaceful
Dec 14, 2006, 11:13 AM
ok could someone explain to me what is ZFS and the difference that is from the current HFS and HFS+?

(ripped from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zfs and shortened)

Capacity
ZFS is a 128-bit file system, which means it can store 18 billion billion (18 quintillion) times more data than current 64-bit systems.

2 ^ 48 — Number of files in any individual file system (2 × 10 ^ 14)
16 exabytes — Maximum size of a file system (an exabyte is 2 ^ 60 bytes)
16 exabytes — Maximum size of a single file



Storage pools
Unlike a traditional file system, which resides on a single device and thus requires a volume manager to use more than one device, ZFS is built on top of virtual storage pools called zpools. A pool is constructed from virtual devices (vdevs), each of which is either a raw device, a mirror (RAID 1) of one or more devices, or a RAID-Z group of two or more devices. The storage capacity of all vdevs are then available to all of the file systems in the zpool.

Copy-on-write transactional model
ZFS uses a copy-on-write, transactional object model. Blocks containing active data are never overwritten in place; instead, a new block is allocated, modified data is written to it, and then any metadata blocks referencing it are similarly read, reallocated, and written.

Snapshots
When ZFS writes new data, instead of releasing the blocks containing the old data, it can instead retain them, creating a snapshot version of the file system. (Sound like Time Machine could make use of something like that? :) ) Writable snapshots ("clones") can also be created, resulting in two independent file systems that share a set of blocks.

Dynamic striping
Dynamic striping across all devices to maximize throughput means that as additional devices are added to the zpool, the stripe width automatically expands to include them, thus all disks in a pool are used, which balances the write load across them.

Variable block sizes
ZFS uses variable-sized blocks of up to 128 kilobytes. The currently available code allows the administrator to tune the maximum block size used as certain workloads do not perform well with large blocks. Automatic tuning to match workload characteristics is contemplated.

Lightweight filesystem creation
Creating a new filesystem within a ZFS storage pool is extremely quick and easy; the time and effort required are closer to those for making a new directory than those for formatting a volume with a traditional filesystem.

Additional capabilities


Explicit I/O priority with deadline scheduling
Globally optimal I/O sorting and aggregation
Multiple independent prefetch streams with automatic length and stride detection
Parallel, constant-time directory operations


License
ZFS was created by Sun Microsystems in 2004-05 and is open source, released under the CDDL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Development_and_Distribution_License). The CDDL is apparently based on the Mozilla Public License, but has some sort of incompatibility with the GPL that Linux folk are trying to work around to port it to linux. I don't imagine Apple would have any problem with porting ZFS to OS X license-wise.

etc. etc. etc.

Go read the Wikipedia article or google ZFS if that's not enough for you. There is more that I cut out.

thestaton
Dec 14, 2006, 11:19 AM
thanks for explaining that in terms I could understand peaceful. I hope its included it sounds nice.

jlewis2k1
Dec 14, 2006, 12:55 PM
that is where i went to read up on it too. thanks for a better understanding.

thedbp
Dec 14, 2006, 06:17 PM
Hmm.......Australians arent real smart are they. Oh well, thats why we Americans control the modern world and make the big decisions that take care of the smaller folk :cool:

..TSIA.

Transeau
Dec 14, 2006, 07:36 PM
ZFS is there.. but you can not install to a ZFS partition.
EFI does not have a ZFS driver yet, OpenFirmware does not either.
No word yet if G4/G5 will support ZFS for booting.
So far it looks like it's there to compliment Time Machine

BollywooD
Dec 14, 2006, 08:47 PM
I found this floating around the net.

im looking forward to the official launch next year!