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MacBytes
Dec 15, 2006, 06:22 AM
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Category: Mac OS X
Link: 15 Things Apple Should Change in Mac OS X (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20061215072224)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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BenRoethig
Dec 15, 2006, 07:14 AM
A couple are very valid points, especially selecting Applications. I'm sorry to say, but the start menu and its all programs menu is one of the few copysoft has best Apple. Apple's hide and go seek approach with the applications is nowhere near as intuitive. The majority of the rest sound like nitpicks and an unwillingness to learn Mac OS X.

autrefois
Dec 15, 2006, 07:46 AM
I think Mac OS X should automatically filter out stupid articles like this one.

While there are a couple points made here and there, like BenRoethig said mostly these are nitpicks and different user preferences and not actual problems. OS X is far from perfect, so I kept hoping I would read something and say "yeah, I totally agree with that", but it just didn't happen.

Eraserhead
Dec 15, 2006, 08:08 AM
I think they are mostly nitpicks, but most of them seem sensible to me, I'm not use about the date (though it should be an option), or the documents in the dock (though that could be built into Cocoa/Carbon), having the Applications folder in the dock by default is a great idea.

mias69
Dec 15, 2006, 08:35 AM
Here we go again.
A bunch of windows losers, I mean...users, with no OS X experience talking about the little details. We all know that we can deal with these.
But how about running an os, that crashes every 5 minutes due to inconsistencies in its core???
That, I couldn't deal with. That's why I switched to OS X. :cool:
Couldn't be happier!:D

Voidness
Dec 15, 2006, 08:40 AM
2. Renaming Isn't Easy. The process of renaming files is highly mouse-centric on the Mac. There's no F2 option (as there is on Windows) that lets you select the file and press F2 to expose the filename-editing mode. The mouse process requires very precisely timed mouse clicks. Anyone who has ever been forced to rename a long list of files under both Windows and Mac operating systems will likely agree that the Windows way is easier. --Michael Cullison
I agree, it sure is hard to select a file and press enter to rename a file! :rolleyes:

[/sarcasm]

Sherman Homan
Dec 15, 2006, 08:45 AM
I got to the first item where the writers complain that they can't remember what day it is!
Seriously, they do raise some good points but they are mostly trivial. The Dock does need a dose of steroids. The Context and Help mess is already scheduled for 10.5. The business of resizing windows makes sense until I thought about how often I ever need to actually do that. A window is either taking up the screen or minimized, I rarely ever need to resize it. So it would be handy I guess, but hardly worth the lives of all the electrons that were sacrificed for the article.

mainstreetmark
Dec 15, 2006, 08:47 AM
A couple are very valid points, especially selecting Applications. I'm sorry to say, but the start menu and its all programs menu is one of the few copysoft has best Apple. Apple's hide and go seek approach with the applications is nowhere near as intuitive. The majority of the rest sound like nitpicks and an unwillingness to learn Mac OS X.

This went around in a thread a few days ago, and I quite plainly have to disagree. For one, XP has that "feature" where it hides menu items you don't frequently use, which has got to be the textbook example of "hide and go seek". And, when it's not in that mode, you can fill your screen up with submenus trying to get at the program.

Here's how to get at Apps in windows:
1. Start menu
2. Stick them down in the quicklaunch bar

Here's Apple's:
1. Any finder window
2. Apple-Shift-A
3. The dock (equiv to the quicklaunch bar, except the icons are larger than 8x8)
4. Spotlight
5. The Apps folder in the dock
6. Recent Items menu

And in the end, all the apps you need to worry about are in the Applications folder. And, if it's still a problem, install one of the many menu utilities that add a launcher to the menubar.

It's all personal prefs in the end, though, isn't it. I mean, how can it be measurably better?

danny_w
Dec 15, 2006, 08:58 AM
While most of what he says may be nitpicking, what or who says that we shouldn't do better? Just because Mac OS X is more rock-solid at its core and is overall a better system (I much prefer it overall) doesn't mean that some things can't be better. Some of these things I truly consider nitpicks, but some of them could go a long way to improving productivity by reducing the time it takes to do repetitive tasks, such as the cut/paste in Finder or the convoluted method of file renaming. Of course OS X is our preferred system, but that doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement.

PlaceofDis
Dec 15, 2006, 09:06 AM
you can edit it so the date displays in the menubar, but it does take some configuring and should be default...

but most of this stuff is nitpicking.

lmalave
Dec 15, 2006, 09:07 AM
A couple are very valid points, especially selecting Applications. I'm sorry to say, but the start menu and its all programs menu is one of the few copysoft has best Apple. Apple's hide and go seek approach with the applications is nowhere near as intuitive. The majority of the rest sound like nitpicks and an unwillingness to learn Mac OS X.

3 solutions:

1) use spotlight to find your application
2) drag the entire "Applications" folder to your dock
3) use "Recent Applications" menu

Most of the time I just use Spotlight - it's FAR faster than clicking around in a Finder/Explorer type window. It's the more Google-esque, Web 2.0 way of doing things, or at least its equivalent on the Desktop.

If I don't remember the application's name or I just prefer to browse what I have in Applications, then I just click on The Application folder on my Dock, which gives me a Start-menu type interface.

Also, let's not forget the "Apple" menu. Sometimes the quickest way to an application is to look through your Recent Applications. Actually, this is something that OS X has that Windows doesn't have. In Windows, you can get a list of recent documents in your Start menu. In OS X, you can get a list of recent documents *and* a list of recently run applications in your Apple menu...

Diatribe
Dec 15, 2006, 10:16 AM
I agree they are mostly nit-picking. But seriously, OS X dimming the screen on its own while the setting say otherwise? :confused: Mine is doing it just fine.

And if Apple EVER puts more than one button on a notebook I won't ever buy a new Apple notebook again and stick with the last one that only has one button.

Mice should have two buttons but it's not like the right mouse button is actually reachable in a convenient way on most notebooks...

dejo
Dec 15, 2006, 10:31 AM
The article makes some interesting points but I'd like to reiterate one previously suggested solution (and add to it) and express one big gripe:

1) Like mainstreetmark said, put your Applications folder in the Dock! This is such a great way to get to your apps (click-and-hold on the Dock icon to get a hierarchy of your Applications folder), that I would love it if Apple made it this a default!

2) What a pain it was to read an article that could've been posted on one page but instead was posted across four pages with far too much other information on each page. But I guess getting page hits is a way to deceive their advertisers into thinking they're getting more than they are.

BenRoethig
Dec 15, 2006, 10:36 AM
3 solutions:

1) use spotlight to find your application
2) drag the entire "Applications" folder to your dock
3) use "Recent Applications" menu

Most of the time I just use Spotlight - it's FAR faster than clicking around in a Finder/Explorer type window. It's the more Google-esque, Web 2.0 way of doing things, or at least its equivalent on the Desktop.

If I don't remember the application's name or I just prefer to browse what I have in Applications, then I just click on The Application folder on my Dock, which gives me a Start-menu type interface.

Also, let's not forget the "Apple" menu. Sometimes the quickest way to an application is to look through your Recent Applications. Actually, this is something that OS X has that Windows doesn't have. In Windows, you can get a list of recent documents in your Start menu. In OS X, you can get a list of recent documents *and* a list of recently run applications in your Apple menu...

I know that, I do that myself. However will a switcher or an average Joe know how to do that? Any computer novice can use the start menu in windows. The same cannot be said for Apple's solution. It needs to be refined to make it easy for those with little Mac or computer experience.

siurpeeman
Dec 15, 2006, 10:47 AM
i was skeptical before reading this article, but i really have to agree with the finder cut and paste feature that windows has. i would find it so useful to be able to cut/copy a program/file and paste it wherever i wanted. it's so simple.

Eraserhead
Dec 15, 2006, 10:55 AM
Here's how to get at Apps in windows:
1. Start menu
2. Stick them down in the quicklaunch bar

There are desktop shortcuts in Windows too. (and program files, but that doesn't count. ;) )

baleensavage
Dec 15, 2006, 11:03 AM
While I agree that most of these are nitpicky (but possibly useful), there is one of them that annoys me on a daily basis that I've been hoping Apple would fix with every update: Too small columns in the column view. They really need to make the columns view dynamic like they have in the hierarchy of spotlight. When you select on a column it should stretch to fit the file names and the other columns should get smaller. Either that or they need to have the file names break and go onto two lines. By the time you're done finding a file in columns view, you end up with a window that fills (or goes off of) your screen. Plus resizing the columns doesn't stick, once you switch folders the tiny columns are back.

Another thing that was not mentioned that I think they need is the ability to grab application windows by all sides, not just the top. OS 9 used to do this. I don't know how many times a window has gotten stuck behind the palettes in Photoshop or Acrobat or any other app with palettes at the top. Then you have to either move all the palettes or close and reopen the window which doesn't always work.

yellow
Dec 15, 2006, 11:03 AM
I found this article to be, for the most part, pedantic.

I found some of the complaints to be invalid, especially if someone had been using OS X for some time and realized that some of the complaints were specific only to Tiger and that OS X is still a work in progress.

If I were writing this article, it would be titled:

1 Thing Apple Needs to Change in Mac OS X.

1) Please un-*uck the Finder. That is all.

IJ Reilly
Dec 15, 2006, 11:05 AM
The lagging Finder update issue is real enough. I consider this to be a bug in OSX if only because it worked correctly in OS9 but never has in OSX. It's a pretty major nuisance, IMO.

bketchum
Dec 15, 2006, 11:14 AM
I like being able to resize windows from any window edge.

Not OS-related, but the keyboard shortcut for moving through tabbed web pages is a pain. Why can't it just be Ctrl-Tab instead of the convoluted Cmd-Shift-left/right arrow keys? You literally have to be a contortionist.

I would like the Enter key to open files, folders and apps. The Cmd-down arrow took forever to figure out.

bketchum
Dec 15, 2006, 11:20 AM
The lagging Finder update issue is real enough. I consider this to be a bug in OSX if only because it worked correctly in OS9 but never has in OSX. It's a pretty major nuisance, IMO.
Can someone explain to me what's wrong with the OS X Finder? Thanks.

jephrey
Dec 15, 2006, 11:25 AM
I use column views exclusively and I do have a big problem... It doesn't have to always open to a large size, but if it would at least open to what I had it at last time I'd be satisfied. That has seriously pissed me off, always having to resize a column. I hope that gets "fixed". I agree that it's somewhat nitpicking, but I have similar peeves to windows that I would say are reasons to switch to a mac. So nitpicky or trivial, they still have to count, and I hope they get better.

J

IJ Reilly
Dec 15, 2006, 11:29 AM
Can someone explain to me what's wrong with the OS X Finder? Thanks.

Try this: open a Finder window in list view, sorted by date modified. Now, open one of the older files in that folder, make a change and re-save it. Does the file now jump to the top of the list? Has the modification date changed? Sometimes, but not always. Now, if you try to select the file you just modified in the Finder, it jumps to the top of the list even as you are clicking in the window, and you end up selecting the wrong file. Annoying!

Buschmaster
Dec 15, 2006, 11:36 AM
App instances int he dock would really piss me off... So would two delete keys that do two different things...

"8. Printer Setup. The process of configuring printers in OS X is confusing. It's almost as if Steve Jobs never actually tried this himself, because the way the printer-configuration screens work is quite un-Mac-like. Apple, you can do better than this."

I've never had to do this either... Because it all works without me having to do anything on my Mac, but on my PC I have to install of CDs, update drivers, etc. etc. usually all by hand.


Don't even get my started on the "reader peeves"

yellow
Dec 15, 2006, 11:39 AM
Can someone explain to me what's wrong with the OS X Finder? Thanks.

It's slow to respond. It's slow to refresh. It's timeout for mounted volumes that disappear is ridiculously long (measuresd in minutes!). The same for accessing volumes that aren't accessible. It's ability to handle the display of many many files is pathetic. It's ability to respond quickly to a default sort of "many" (138 is not many) files in anything but "by name" is annoying. Etc. Etc. Etc.
The Finder sucks. It needs a major overhaul.

bketchum
Dec 15, 2006, 11:44 AM
Try this: open a Finder window in list view, sorted by date modified. Now, open one of the older files in that folder, make a change and re-save it. Does the file now jump to the top of the list? Has the modification date changed? Sometimes, but not always. Now, if you try to select the file you just modified in the Finder, it jumps to the top of the list even as you are clicking in the window, and you end up selecting the wrong file. Annoying!
Oh, yes, I know this behaviour. Thanks for that.

mrsebastian
Dec 15, 2006, 11:47 AM
"In many ways, it's easy to slam Windows XP and Vista: Just start counting security flaws or user experience nightmares..."

duh captain obvious and how do you get from an inherently flawed operating system, to nitpicking at ui issues of another?

skunk
Dec 15, 2006, 11:54 AM
Another thing that was not mentioned that I think they need is the ability to grab application windows by all sides, not just the top. OS 9 used to do this. I don't know how many times a window has gotten stuck behind the palettes in Photoshop or Acrobat or any other app with palettes at the top. Then you have to either move all the palettes or close and reopen the window which doesn't always work.In my experience, all you have to do is click on the desktop: the palettes disappear, then you can click on the green button to reposition the window automatically.

59031
Dec 15, 2006, 11:59 AM
A couple are very valid points, especially selecting Applications. I'm sorry to say, but the start menu and its all programs menu is one of the few copysoft has best Apple. Apple's hide and go seek approach with the applications is nowhere near as intuitive. The majority of the rest sound like nitpicks and an unwillingness to learn Mac OS X.

Just put an alias to your applications folder in the dock. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

La Porta
Dec 15, 2006, 12:01 PM
One of the things that irks me about the article is the argument over the backspace key. It is Apple, NOT the PC makers who are in the right here. Apple has both keys on most keyboards (save the built-in laptop ones, I know), but has them labelled correctly. To me "Backspace" is a throwback term to the days of the Apple II and the like where hitting backspace actually took you back a space over a previous character instead of deleting anything. Backspace is an incorrect term for what the key does today. Apple's labeling of Delete is far more appropriate since that is what the key actually does.

macman2790
Dec 15, 2006, 12:14 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=123351

click on this link and find out how to put dashboard widgets on the desktop. They were wrong apple just needs to make it a preferences option for dashboard. All you have to do is type something in terminal then restart your computer and then follow the directions on this thread.

bousozoku
Dec 15, 2006, 12:53 PM
Here we go again.
A bunch of windows losers, I mean...users, with no OS X experience talking about the little details. We all know that we can deal with these.
But how about running an os, that crashes every 5 minutes due to inconsistencies in its core???
That, I couldn't deal with. That's why I switched to OS X. :cool:
Couldn't be happier!:D

They weren't all only Windows users in the article.

Besides, WinXP doesn't crash every 5 minutes. I don't like Windows but it works reasonably well.

Just put an alias to your applications folder in the dock. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

They already mentioned doing that in the article.

One of the things that irks me about the article is the argument over the backspace key. It is Apple, NOT the PC makers who are in the right here. Apple has both keys on most keyboards (save the built-in laptop ones, I know), but has them labelled correctly. To me "Backspace" is a throwback term to the days of the Apple II and the like where hitting backspace actually took you back a space over a previous character instead of deleting anything. Backspace is an incorrect term for what the key does today. Apple's labeling of Delete is far more appropriate since that is what the key actually does.

You're right. They should have complained about the return key since no Windows-based machine has a carriage to return or backspace.

They also mentioned the bit about the full date in the menu bar and there was a recent thread about that here, so while it's not simple to do it, it's possible.

They missed the ease of renaming. Thankfully, that's easier than with the mouse.

Apple has other things they need to improve but these 15 minor points don't deserve such prominence.

mduser63
Dec 15, 2006, 01:07 PM
You can put the date in the menubar. That's how I have my menubar set up. Unfortunately, the method for doing so is not obvious, but it's not hard either. This hint (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20050508000838365) explains it.

EDIT: Beaten (kinda) to it.

BenRoethig
Dec 15, 2006, 01:17 PM
Just put an alias to your applications folder in the dock. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

Like I said earlier, I know how to jury rig it like that. However, like I also earlier, a person with little Mac experience or little computer experience in general is going to find the start menu much easier to work with. There shouldn't have to be a work around.

OdduWon
Dec 15, 2006, 01:58 PM
Just put an alias to your applications folder in the dock. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

YEAH because pushing shift+command+a is soooo much harder :cool:

and utilities is shift+command+u
apple rocks. cant wait till you can launch apps by hitting spotlight and typing two letters hitting enter and bam! you application is launched

yesterday someone here described how to get widgets on the desktop. you have to turn dev mode on in the terminal and drag them to the desktop. seemed easy, but the terminal is a huge mystery to me, and most novice users :o

bearbo
Dec 15, 2006, 02:01 PM
Also, let's not forget the "Apple" menu. Sometimes the quickest way to an application is to look through your Recent Applications. Actually, this is something that OS X has that Windows doesn't have. In Windows, you can get a list of recent documents in your Start menu. In OS X, you can get a list of recent documents *and* a list of recently run applications in your Apple menu...in XP you can see a list of recent launched apps

bearbo
Dec 15, 2006, 02:07 PM
App instances int he dock would really piss me off... So would two delete keys that do two different things...

"8. Printer Setup. The process of configuring printers in OS X is confusing. It's almost as if Steve Jobs never actually tried this himself, because the way the printer-configuration screens work is quite un-Mac-like. Apple, you can do better than this."

I've never had to do this either... Because it all works without me having to do anything on my Mac, but on my PC I have to install of CDs, update drivers, etc. etc. usually all by hand.


Don't even get my started on the "reader peeves"
obviously then you never tried to share printers... network printers, etc, etc

i'm not even sure if USB printers need to be at least added.. i thought so

while i agree that in OS X the printer configuration isn't the most convenient, it isn't much better in XP... however since it's an article about how to improve OS X, i agree with it

Just put an alias to your applications folder in the dock. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

if you've read the article, it was referring to apps you use once in a while... and you dont want to cramp your dock

Diatribe
Dec 15, 2006, 02:33 PM
cant wait till you can launch apps by hitting spotlight and typing two letters hitting enter and bam! you application is launched


Just download Quicksilver and you have the app launcher you want.

OdduWon
Dec 15, 2006, 02:36 PM
Just download Quicksilver and you have the app launcher you want.

i belive this will be in leopard, but thanks for the tip :D
- is there a short key for spotlight :confused:

jhu
Dec 15, 2006, 03:03 PM
i'd like to see an option for

1) focus follows mouse
2) maximize window

Diatribe
Dec 15, 2006, 03:11 PM
i belive this will be in leopard, but thanks for the tip :D
- is there a short key for spotlight :confused:

Standard shortcut is Apple+Space. You can change that though in the Spotlight prefs.

topgun072003
Dec 15, 2006, 03:13 PM
i belive this will be in leopard, but thanks for the tip :D
- is there a short key for spotlight :confused:

The hotkey is command spacebar.

i'd like to see an option for

1) focus follows mouse
2) maximize window

I don't think maximizing windows is a good idea. It reduces multi-tasking preformance. IMHO

frogbat
Dec 15, 2006, 03:40 PM
like many heavy mac users who use their macs in a work environment that involves lots of file handling, the finder is a complete and other load of crock.


here are a few of my own gripes.. call it nitpicking..

the little transfer window that appears appears showing a file copy or transfer progress. It has a tendency to get lost beneath all the other windows. seems to happen in xp too. I saw a finder mockup where the author placed such notification gauges in the core ui such as the menu bar or finder window rather than a floating window that gets easily lost.

I'm a huge mac fan and after 4 years working on xp at work and on a mac at home i've come to appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of both. Now we've just switched our studio to macs and i'll have to help the other designers get acquainted with tiger...

Maximise and file cutting are going to be missed. They're two features which apple can integrate easily. Maximise for example could simply lock down the underlying apps - dunno how many times i've accidentally hit the desktop or other underlyin app windows.

A major bug tho is in the network support. A lot of macs seem to hang when a connected, mounted mac is switched off or becomes unavailable. Creating a shared folder could be more intuitive too.

Spotlight is great but at times the good old basic find would be more useful. Also is search as you type feature is complete daft. Why should i spend valuable seconds waiting for it to start searching on every letter. I've resorted to typing out a search string in another app's field and paste it into spotlight.

More system wide interface coherence. Mini windows and palettes that don't close with cmd w (which i have wired to one of my moue buttons...) should be revised. Why can't i close the font selection window with cmd w? Why should i risk closing the file i just opened?

And to finish my nitpicking... i'd like an option to launch apps from the dock with a double click. The double click was the mainstay of most wimp environments. I find it too easy to accidentally launch an app that i wasn't meant to. The dock and its items shift and at times i really don't have the time for pshop to load.

don't get me started on keyboard navigation of finder and open save dialogues...

Snowy_River
Dec 15, 2006, 03:48 PM
Gads, this article had me irritated. Not that there weren't some good points. But many of the points made were features that are hidden (i.e. pulling widgets out of the dashboard), or issues that I had never ever heard of (laptop screen dimming? I've never had an issue with my PB).

Then there were the issues that I don't even see as being valid issues. (Printer set-up? He didn't even explain what the issue with this was. I've set up printers over networks - Mac and Windows -, using IP printing, etc., etc., and I've never seen that this is something that is overly convoluted. Sure, printer set-up in some circumstances can be a pain, but when you consider that for most common printer situations - i.e. USB plugged directly into the computer or plugged into your Airport base station - Apple has reduced the set-up to zero, I don't see that there's a lot to complain about.)

Really, I feel that this article could have been a lot better if the author had done a little more research. Go ahead and mention the date issue, but explain that right now it's a 'hidden' feature that should be more easily accessed. Same with Dashboard widgets. As it stands, it leaves those of us who know feeling like this is just an excuse to poke at OS X.

DUCKofD3ATH
Dec 15, 2006, 04:02 PM
This Finder quirk catches me every time: I want to duplicate a file and rename its copy, so I select the source file, duplicate it, press Enter, and start renaming.... Doh! I've renamed the original file because it stayed selected after I duplicated it.

Now there's the extra step of deleting "copy" from the name of the duplicated file.

How can the Finder be so cruel?

ipearx
Dec 15, 2006, 05:07 PM
A response to point #7 - the 8 interface themes of OS X, and how they are a good thing:
http://bla.st/site/blog/28/

http://bla.st/mac/

wmmk
Dec 15, 2006, 05:09 PM
wow, that doublecommand thing he recommended is wonderful! i love it.

the thing that should have been #1 was inconsistent interface. if everything looked like mail and preview have been shown to in leopard, i will be incredibly happy!

A response to point #7 - the 8 interface themes of OS X, and how they are a good thing:
http://bla.st/site/blog/28/

http://bla.st/mac/

wow, that's actually a really good point. it almost made me want to uninstall uno. then, when i saw the aperture and motion screenies, I decided I wanted to make my whole system look the pro apps (whithout using shapeshifter).

bketchum
Dec 15, 2006, 05:28 PM
YEAH because pushing shift+command+a is soooo much harder :cool:

and utilities is shift+command+u
apple rocks. cant wait till you can launch apps by hitting spotlight and typing two letters hitting enter and bam! you application is launched

yesterday someone here described how to get widgets on the desktop. you have to turn dev mode on in the terminal and drag them to the desktop. seemed easy, but the terminal is a huge mystery to me, and most novice users :o
Brilliant! Those are terrific keyboard shortcuts. Thank you!

Does anyone know the keyboard shortcut for reducing all open windows to the dock?

Snowy_River
Dec 15, 2006, 07:33 PM
Brilliant! Those are terrific keyboard shortcuts. Thank you!

Does anyone know the keyboard shortcut for reducing all open windows to the dock?

For the application that you're in, it's command-option-M. If you're looking for being able to do it with applications in the back ground, I can't help you. Though, you might try command-option-H, which hides all applications except the one you're currently in.

Snowy_River
Dec 15, 2006, 08:54 PM
A response to point #7 - the 8 interface themes of OS X, and how they are a good thing:
http://bla.st/site/blog/28/

http://bla.st/mac/

This is incredibly well done. It falls into a category of "I knew that, but didn't realize it". :D

AlmostThere
Dec 16, 2006, 06:30 AM
This is incredibly well done. It falls into a category of "I knew that, but didn't realize it". :D

Read that and thought the opposite - why do Apple keep changing themes if it is about recognition and ease of use?

To paraphrase: imagine if you have 6 remote controls for your home cinema but each one changed appearance each month.

solvs
Dec 16, 2006, 06:50 AM
I agree with a lot of what's already been said. I do the thing with the date in the menubar next to the time and the apps folder in the Dock, along with a shortcut to my Windows shared folder. Also use UNO, Default Folder X, FruitMenu, Onyx, Witch... among other things. I like OS X, but little things bug me and those apps help. There are of course valid complaints, constructive criticisms, and varying opinions, but there's also nitpicking and FUD. It's a fine line apparently.

The new Finder's supposed to be cool. Haven't seen it, but I've heard some rumblings. Any improvement will be appreciated.

macnulty
Dec 16, 2006, 09:05 AM
This went around in a thread a few days ago, and I quite plainly have to disagree. For one, XP has that "feature" where it hides menu items you don't frequently use, which has got to be the textbook example of "hide and go seek". And, when it's not in that mode, you can fill your screen up with submenus trying to get at the program.

Here's how to get at Apps in windows:
1. Start menu
2. Stick them down in the quicklaunch bar

Here's Apple's:
1. Any finder window
2. Apple-Shift-A
3. The dock (equiv to the quicklaunch bar, except the icons are larger than 8x8)
4. Spotlight
5. The Apps folder in the dock
6. Recent Items menu

And in the end, all the apps you need to worry about are in the Applications folder. And, if it's still a problem, install one of the many menu utilities that add a launcher to the menubar.

It's all personal prefs in the end, though, isn't it. I mean, how can it be measurably better?

Create a folder, drop some alias in the folder, drag the folder to the dock.
ex: I have an "Internet" folder in my dock with alias to different browers, newsreaders, etc. Just click and hold on the folder in the Dock will reveal the contents.

Jay42
Dec 16, 2006, 10:07 AM
Most of these are true, but #6 (laptop screen dimming) is the one that really kills me. Why can't we just make our own energy presets in Tiger like we used to be able to!!! :mad:

Snowy_River
Dec 16, 2006, 10:41 AM
Read that and thought the opposite - why do Apple keep changing themes if it is about recognition and ease of use?

To paraphrase: imagine if you have 6 remote controls for your home cinema but each one changed appearance each month.

Given the fact that they really all started out looking the same, I'd say it's more like every six months they get a little more different and easier to tell apart. ;)

Snowy_River
Dec 16, 2006, 10:43 AM
Create a folder, drop some alias in the folder, drag the folder to the dock.
ex: I have an "Internet" folder in my dock with alias to different browers, newsreaders, etc. Just click and hold on the folder in the Dock will reveal the contents.

I do this too. And, to make things even easier, I use custom icons on all of these folders so I can tell which on I want to aim for without needing to roll over the dock to see the name. This is necessary given the number of different folders I have:

brian6504
Dec 16, 2006, 01:18 PM
A response to point #7 - the 8 interface themes of OS X, and how they are a good thing:
http://bla.st/site/blog/28/

http://bla.st/mac/

What really irks me about the different user interface themes in OS X is that only 3 of the 8 themes are made available to developers by Apple, which are Brushed Metal, Unified, and the Standard Theme. The Aperture, Garage Band, Pro App, iPhoto's floating palette, and the flat metal look of iLife '06 require extra developer effort to emulate, not to mention Mail (and Leopard's Preview) which diverge with their non-standard toolbar and the drawer turned into column. Adding to the array of Apple's unique interfaces is the non-Aqua look of iTunes 7. None of these themes are available to developers in Leopard, despite the introduction on Xcode 3.0 and a new Interface Builder.

Despite the difference in look (e.g. Brushed Metal vs. Standard), the user interface is still very consistent. When using Interface Builder, developers can choose between Standard, Unified, and Brushed metal with the click of a check box. This demonstrates the underlying design principles are the same despite the "color" the UI is drawn in.

I feel that Apple should only use the interfaces made available to their developers, unless there is a really good reason not to do so, i.e. Garage Band's unique theme works really well for its purpose. And, if Apple introduces a new theme, they should make it available to their developers in the next minor update to Mac OS X, or at the very least, the next major release of it. This would do the Mac market a lot of good by freeing developers to focus on making their applications unique in the market instead of keeping up with Apple's latest interface changes.

Read that and thought the opposite - why do Apple keep changing themes if it is about recognition and ease of use?

To paraphrase: imagine if you have 6 remote controls for your home cinema but each one changed appearance each month.

My two cents on this is that if the remotes evolved every month to become easier to use and more unique and tailored to its purpose, I'd be all for it.


This is just a random side note, but does it bother anyone else that Finder windows can get "lost" under the dock? Cocoa applications bounce back up if they're dropped below the dock and Carbon applications will refuse to go below the dock. That leaves me to ask what in the world Apple is doing with the Finder!

OdduWon
Dec 18, 2006, 01:22 AM
is there a shortcut for the refresh button in safari :confused: :confused: :confused:

Diatribe
Dec 18, 2006, 03:54 AM
is there a shortcut for the refresh button in safari :confused: :confused: :confused:

CMD(Apple)+R

iBlue
Dec 18, 2006, 06:54 AM
....

A major bug tho is in the network support. A lot of macs seem to hang when a connected, mounted mac is switched off or becomes unavailable. Creating a shared folder could be more intuitive too.

...

And to finish my nitpicking... i'd like an option to launch apps from the dock with a double click. The double click was the mainstay of most wimp environments. I find it too easy to accidentally launch an app that i wasn't meant to. The dock and its items shift and at times i really don't have the time for pshop to load.

...

I agreed on much of what you said but these points especially.

The network file copy is atrocious! It craps itself over disruptions in connection (which happens when you are wireless occasionally) and throws the whole system out of whack sometimes, often requiring force quits. I've given up copying big files wirelessly, it's so stupid and it bothers me every time I have to do this.

OS X file handling is also a bit stupid at times. If I specify preferences in Xee or Preview to open a JPEG and it's ignored and opens photoshop, this is frustrating.
Sometimes OS X is too smart for its own good, it refuses to "listen".

/my bothered $.02

danny_w
Dec 18, 2006, 10:32 AM
The network file copy is atrocious! It craps itself over disruptions in connection (which happens when you are wireless occasionally) and throws the whole system out of whack sometimes, often requiring force quits. I've given up copying big files wirelessly, it's so stupid and it bothers me every time I have to do this.

OS X file handling is also a bit stupid at times. If I specify preferences in Xee or Preview to open a JPEG and it's ignored and opens photoshop, this is frustrating.
Sometimes OS X is too smart for its own good, it refuses to "listen".
At least it's not just me that has these issues (both of the above). I was beginning to wonder.

solvs
Dec 18, 2006, 11:05 AM
If I specify preferences in Xee
Thank you for that, it's a cool program. Wish Preview was as good. 'Cept for the annoying thing where it opens in the middle of the screen with small pics, it's about as close to Irfanview for the Mac as I guess we'll ever get.

I don't have a problem with programs changing file associations if I do it through Get Info and Change All.

Networking is still a pain sometimes though.

danny_w
Dec 18, 2006, 01:43 PM
Thank you for that, it's a cool program. Wish Preview was as good. 'Cept for the annoying thing where it opens in the middle of the screen with small pics, it's about as close to Irfanview for the Mac as I guess we'll ever get.

I don't have a problem with programs changing file associations if I do it through Get Info and Change All.

Networking is still a pain sometimes though.
I tried to change the file association for pdf files (from Acrobat to Preview) using Get Info and Change All, and it took for some files and not others (all with pdf extensions). I don't know why that is. Perhaps it looks into the file to determine what specific type of pdf file is being set.

Snowy_River
Dec 18, 2006, 02:59 PM
I tried to change the file association for pdf files (from Acrobat to Preview) using Get Info and Change All, and it took for some files and not others (all with pdf extensions). I don't know why that is. Perhaps it looks into the file to determine what specific type of pdf file is being set.

Were all of the files in question on your computer when you did the Change All, or did some come on later? I have found that, even though Preview is my default PDF viewer, from time to time I'll download a PDF that will associate with Acrobat. Similarly, anytime I create a PDF using Adobe CS it is always associate with Acrobat.

Same sort of thing with JPG files. My default is to have them open in Preview. But anytime I create a JPG with CS, it's always associated with Photoshop.

danny_w
Dec 18, 2006, 05:04 PM
Were all of the files in question on your computer when you did the Change All, or did some come on later? I have found that, even though Preview is my default PDF viewer, from time to time I'll download a PDF that will associate with Acrobat. Similarly, anytime I create a PDF using Adobe CS it is always associate with Acrobat.

Same sort of thing with JPG files. My default is to have them open in Preview. But anytime I create a JPG with CS, it's always associated with Photoshop.
No, I believe that all of the files were on my computer at the time I changed the file association. I can look tonight, but I believe there will be several associated with Preview and several associated with Acrobat. Do I need to select all of these files first and then change the file association?

bousozoku
Dec 18, 2006, 06:04 PM
No, I believe that all of the files were on my computer at the time I changed the file association. I can look tonight, but I believe there will be several associated with Preview and several associated with Acrobat. Do I need to select all of these files first and then change the file association?

It may be as simple as there are two different types of documents associated. In the old days, any Creator Code could be associated with two different document types. SimpleText, for instance, was associated with a document type of TEXT or TTRO.

It could also be as simple as upper/lowercase, if you're using the case-sensitive HFS+ file system (not just the default, case-preserving.)

Ish
Dec 18, 2006, 06:24 PM
No-one's commented on the print options remarks yet. That was one of the two things I found a bit of a pain when I switched. It would be so much easier if, when printing, the different selections, such as copies & pages, scheduler, paper handling, colour sync etc etc weren't all on separate drop-down pages, but in one list that could be scrolled down to select what was wanted. I suppose I've got used to it now but I think he has a point there.

bousozoku
Dec 18, 2006, 07:38 PM
No-one's commented on the print options remarks yet. That was one of the two things I found a bit of a pain when I switched. It would be so much easier if, when printing, the different selections, such as copies & pages, scheduler, paper handling, colour sync etc etc weren't all on separate drop-down pages, but in one list that could be scrolled down to select what was wanted. I suppose I've got used to it now but I think he has a point there.

If you're talking about the article, the comments concerned printer setup, which is demanding at best. It's a bit too flexible and requires you to guess where the printer is going to be. I could say that it's good to be able to print at all but it's been pretty consistent since 10.3.5, thankfully. The early days made me wonder if Apple had any idea about talking to a printer.

Still, wouldn't it be nice if you had a printer connected with USB or FireWire or Ethernet or a wireless Bonjour connection that it showed up under a single location? One printer I have shows up as 1394 BJ_LUN0 under FireWire and my all-in-one requires selection of EPSON_USB to find it. That's not as easy as it should be.

As far as the print options go, they would do better to put the categories in a toolbar instead of a drop down list.

Apple needs one mind, not a committee, to remove the confusion.

OdduWon
Dec 18, 2006, 08:33 PM
CMD(Apple)+R

thanks :p , i also found that you can just context click and hit reload, this should help the mac rumors produce even faster. LOL MACBOO where are you! :D


ALSO the best shortcut evre imho is ctrl+alt+d this always wows my friend. it makes spelling and defining words super easy, give it a try you"ll like it.

Diatribe
Dec 19, 2006, 07:36 AM
ALSO the best shortcut evre imho is ctrl+alt+d this always wows my friend. it makes spelling and defining words super easy, give it a try you"ll like it.

Yeah, that's a nice one. If only Apple offered plug-ins for other languages too, that'd be nice.

Frozonecold
Dec 19, 2006, 01:22 PM
The article did not make many worthwhile points. It was kinda nitpicky. The article is similar to one of mine (http://madmac.us/post/10-changes-i-woulld-like-to-see-in-mac-os-106/), but I think I actually made some good points.

Snowy_River
Dec 19, 2006, 01:56 PM
No-one's commented on the print options remarks yet. That was one of the two things I found a bit of a pain when I switched. It would be so much easier if, when printing, the different selections, such as copies & pages, scheduler, paper handling, colour sync etc etc weren't all on separate drop-down pages, but in one list that could be scrolled down to select what was wanted. I suppose I've got used to it now but I think he has a point there.

Ugh. Please, no scroll down window! That'd be horrible, IMHO.

If you're talking about the article, the comments concerned printer setup, which is demanding at best. It's a bit too flexible and requires you to guess where the printer is going to be. I could say that it's good to be able to print at all but it's been pretty consistent since 10.3.5, thankfully. The early days made me wonder if Apple had any idea about talking to a printer.

Still, wouldn't it be nice if you had a printer connected with USB or FireWire or Ethernet or a wireless Bonjour connection that it showed up under a single location? One printer I have shows up as 1394 BJ_LUN0 under FireWire and my all-in-one requires selection of EPSON_USB to find it. That's not as easy as it should be.

As far as the print options go, they would do better to put the categories in a toolbar instead of a drop down list.

Apple needs one mind, not a committee, to remove the confusion.

Now, a tab bar would be much more doable. Although, with the current number of panels, that might be hard. Perhaps they need to combine some of the standard panels, to reduce the number of them, making the overall print dialog a little bigger, and then switch from a drop-down menu to tabs. I like that idea...

Ish
Dec 21, 2006, 03:16 AM
Ugh. Please, no scroll down window! That'd be horrible, IMHO.


How would you get over having to open each choice separately? Seems to me to be a long winded way to make a few simple choices.

Snowy_River
Dec 21, 2006, 11:20 AM
How would you get over having to open each choice separately? Seems to me to be a long winded way to make a few simple choices.

I'm not sure I understand what you're after. Why do you need more than the options in the default dialog pane 99% of the time? And the rest of the time (as infrequent as it is) why is switching between different panes (whether by means of a drop down menu, or through tabs) such an inconvenience?

Elphaba
Dec 21, 2006, 02:33 PM
1) Like mainstreetmark said, put your Applications folder in the Dock! This is such a great way to get to your apps (click-and-hold on the Dock icon to get a hierarchy of your Applications folder), that I would love it if Apple made it this a default!


Or, you can just try using HimmelBar (http://softbend.free.fr/himmelbar/) :)

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4964/himmelma0.png

Snowy_River
Dec 21, 2006, 05:57 PM
Or, you can just try using HimmelBar (http://softbend.free.fr/himmelbar/) :)

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4964/himmelma0.png

That's pretty cool. I might give it a try, but it's starting out a little behind the proverbial 8 ball, as my menu bar is already quite full...

Ive
Dec 22, 2006, 03:55 AM
try the best, try Overflow !

http://www.stuntsoftware.com/Overflow

Ish
Dec 22, 2006, 09:07 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you're after. Why do you need more than the options in the default dialog pane 99% of the time? And the rest of the time (as infrequent as it is) why is switching between different panes (whether by means of a drop down menu, or through tabs) such an inconvenience?

Maybe there's a better way that the way I do it? I do a lot of small amounts of different types of printing so typically I'd have to:

1. Open the Print window and select which printer I want.
2. Open Copies and Pages if I want two sided printing.
3. Open Paper Feed and select which tray of paper in the printer I want to use because there will probably be different paper in each.
4. Open Printer Features and select output colour.

I'd like to be able to go select, select, select, select rather than open, select, open, select etc. I'm sure that if I printed more or less the same things most of the time I wouldn't be bothered about it. I'm not that bothered now, I just think it could be more straightforward. If it can, and you know how, I'll be forever in your debt!

kalisphoenix
Dec 23, 2006, 12:53 AM
Things Apple Should Change in OS X:

* Allow Front Row to play from VIDEO_TS folders. DVD Player does it already.

* Allow users to run a .Mac-esque server on their own machines. This would encourage more developers to build .Mac functionality into their machines like Comic Life does... which would mean more people would get .Mac if they're unable or unwilling to do it on a home server. At least allow this functionality in OS X Server.

* Eliminate distinctions between Quicktime and Quicktime Pro. Or eliminate Pro altogether.

* Make quicktime components a little easier or more stable for coding. I hate needing a codec for FLAC, only to find that the one that existed no longer works with QT 7.

* Bundle Quicksilver with OS X. All data should be treated equally, and I think QS is an incredible step for this.

* Concentrate less on applications and more on the data itself. Applescript and services are a step toward this, but I'd like to see more managed by Quicktime -- not just audio and video, but also, say, Quicktime components for different formats of spreadsheets/word processing documents/et cetera -- utilize open source whereever possible, and make it easy for other programmers to contribute modules of their own into the core functionality of *all* of OS X's applications. In other words, wouldn't it be neat to buy/download a module that allows you to build (in only a few minutes) an application that can deal with bittorrents the way that you can currently build an app that deals with Quicktime files?

* Store iTunes-controlled movies in the ~/Movies/ folder, not in the iTunes folder. I'd like to use iTunes to control all my movies, but I can't since that would require more space than my external Music hard drive has.

* Allow NS services to handle rich text, images, audio, video, et cetera the way they handle plain text. The resulting capabilities would knock your socks off. UNIX can handle pipes of all kinds of data, so why can't NS services?

* Greatly expand the Automator actions. They're fantastic as they are, but we need more of them. For instance, why is there no "search & replace" action for TextEdit? Why is there no "render as PDF" action?

* Core Zoooooooom. Let's start working toward Zoomable UIs by creating a powerful low-level capability for handling vector and raster graphics with automatic simplification at low levels. Even for stuff like normal PDF/image/web usage, this would be fantastic. And in the long term, I'd like to see Apple progress beyond the desktop metaphor to something more revolutionary and intuitive.

* Finder revamp. Why has Apple *not* bought Path Finder and integrated its features? At least fix the problems that arise when a network volume poops itself.

* Maximize. I'm sitting here in front of a 14" iBook with a 1024x768 screen. Believe it or not, I can't really fit two usefully-sized windows on this screen at the same time. I can, however, spit and fume whenever I accidentally click the scrollbar of the window behind Safari. I hate having to reposition the screen so that a couple pixels are constantly hanging off the right side. I'm perfectly capable of arranging two windows to allow working in both when necessary. I learned this skill while using Windows 3.1, which had a maximize functionality.

* Why does it require a 3rd party prefpane to easily configure Apple file sharing on specific folders?

* Better interface for firewall/network control, allowing port forwarding, ssh tunnelling, app-by-app network policies la Little Snitch, port knocking, and so forth. I know this is already possible -- I just want it done in Apple fashion.

* Daemonize most apps. I'd like to be able to run iChat, iTunes, Address Book, iCal, and so forth without launching the app... this already works with iChat (although imperfectly), and I hear something like this is happening with iCal. Finish the job. I know I can hide the app -- this is not the same thing. I would prefer my applications to be Aqua interfaces with system programs, not Aqua programs. Benefits: decreased usage of system resources, decreased startup time for apps, stability (open Word after the crash to find that your document is still intact), network transparency (no need for the resource or bandwidth burden of VNC or ARD), data can be transferred over networks (I pipe a video through a service, which pipes it over the network to the Quicktime on my wife's computer -- instant Quicktime Server, with no network setup, training, etc), ultimate skinnability of apps (apps might be merely skins, for that matter). Imagine.

In general, I think OS X is the best operating system in the world, and I don't really have any major complaints about it. That being said, I'd like to see Jobs & Co. be more aggressive with it. More experimental. Multiple desktops are decades old at this point. I'd like to see mistakes as long as they're glorious and not put forth as the One True Path. I'd like to see a lot of advancement, even in areas that don't seem to be good ideas. I'd like Apple to be a more daring company, even to the point of actually releasing (even from fake third-party software companies) completely ridiculous applications or prefpanes or whatever.

Think Different :cool:

solvs
Dec 23, 2006, 02:02 AM
* Store iTunes-controlled movies in the ~/Movies/ folder, not in the iTunes folder. I'd like to use iTunes to control all my movies, but I can't since that would require more space than my external Music hard drive has.
Although it doesn't do it automatically, you can put them anywhere you want. Just set it in the Prefs to not keep them organized or copied to the iTunes folder. Did wish you could do it automatically, suspect they might do something in the next version to work with the iTV. E-mail their suggestions dept, they might use it.

* Better interface for firewall/network control, allowing port forwarding, ssh tunnelling, app-by-app network policies la Little Snitch, port knocking, and so forth. I know this is already possible -- I just want it done in Apple fashion.
Some of that will be in Leopard.

Snowy_River
Dec 23, 2006, 02:29 AM
* Store iTunes-controlled movies in the ~/Movies/ folder, not in the iTunes folder. I'd like to use iTunes to control all my movies, but I can't since that would require more space than my external Music hard drive has.


While it's not true with iTunes, this is the case with Front Row. Any movies that are in your Movie folder will show up in Front Row. So, that's a step in the right direction, anyway...

quiteversatile
Mar 8, 2007, 03:43 AM
The lack of an "F2 equivalent" in the mac is not only a pain to rename files (or song names in itunes, for example), but in general to edit anything under any program that has separate fields (for example excel)!

Has anyone knows a solution to go around this that we can share?

Quite