Strange iBook network problems

[beeblebrox87]

I have recently been having problems getting my iBook to load websites. It can ping websites just fine, and resolve DNS names, but it can't load pages or connect to instant messenger or do anything that requires TCP. However, it can connect (via ssh, http, smb, whatever) to the Windows and Linux machines on my LAN just fine, and they can all connect to the internet. I have tried this with OS 10.2.5 and OS 9.2, with airport and regular ethernet, with internal firewall on and off, all to no avail. Upon changing the iBook's IP address, things work for a few seconds, and I can load about one website before it stops working again.

I have reflashed my router. I have disabled and re-enabled every interface in network preferences. I have tried DHCP and static IP. All to no avail. I haven't reinstalled the OS yet, but I would really like to avoid that. Does anybody have any idea what is wrong with this machine?

[zimv20]

if you've already fixed permissions, i would try varying:

1. from where i connect (take it to work or school?)
2. browsers

if that doesn't work, i'd try reinstalling the OS. weird that it would be messed up in osx and classic, though.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by zimv20
if you've already fixed permissions, i would try varying:

1. from where i connect (take it to work or school?)
2. browsers

if that doesn't work, i'd try reinstalling the OS. weird that it would be messed up in osx and classic, though.

1. School won't let me connect there.
2. Tried with Safari and Mozilla, plus I have tried using wget or curl to get individual files, they stop on the "connecting to website:80..."

What do you mean, fix permissions?
Never mind, I found it. Repairing disk permissions now.

[Falleron]

Originally posted by beeblebrox87
1. School won't let me connect there.
2. Tried with Safari and Mozilla, plus I have tried using wget or curl to get individual files, they stop on the "connecting to website:80..."

What do you mean, fix permissions?
Never mind, I found it. Repairing disk permissions now.
You are doing this repairing permissions from the OSX cd? Thats where you need to do it from.

1. Insert OSX cd + hold c key.
2. When installer boots, go to disk utility (file menu - i think). select osx drive.
3. Verify + repair permissions.

Probably what you are doing, just thought I would make sure you are doing it correct.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by Falleron
You are doing this repairing permissions from the OSX cd? Thats where you need to do it from.

1. Insert OSX cd + hold c key.
2. When installer boots, go to disk utility (file menu - i think). select osx drive.
3. Verify + repair permissions.

Probably what you are doing, just thought I would make sure you are doing it correct.

No, I'm doing it from the utility on the hard drive. Why is that a problem?

[iJon]

you can do it from the hard drive, at your school, what kind of network software do they use that prevents you from getting on.

iJon

[Falleron]

Originally posted by beeblebrox87
No, I'm doing it from the utility on the hard drive. Why is that a problem?
I believe that some corrections cant be made when the OSX drive is active. It may well sort your problems out. However, its probably worth doing it from the cd as well. See what other people say.

[beeblebrox87]

OK, tried it from the utility on the hard drive, but the network problem persists. Any other ideas? If not, which disk do I boot from?

[ibookin']

It strikes me as odd that you can see the local machines but not the internet, which would indicate a problem on the router side.

Can the PCs connect to the web? What kind of router do you have? Also, have you set the router IP in the field in the Network Settings dialog?

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by ibookin'@mwny
It strikes me as odd that you can see the local machines but not the internet, which would indicate a problem on the router side.

Can the PCs connect to the web? What kind of router do you have? Also, have you set the router IP in the field in the Network Settings dialog?

Yes, the Windows and Linux systems can all connect fine. The router is a Linksys BEFW11S4. Yes, the router IP field is fine. If it wasn't I wouldn't be able to ping the internet, but I can ping, just not do anything TCP-based (ping is ICMP I think, DNS resolve is UDP, both work fine).

It does seem to be a problem on the router side. I have powercycled, reflashed, and cursed at the router, all to no effect. Any idea what could be wrong with the router, then?

[GeeYouEye]

Zap the PRAM (cmnd-option-p-r at startup until you hear the third startup chime). That's fixed every network problem I've ever had on my iBook.

[ibookin']

Try plugging your modem (DSL or Cable) directly into the iBook (I'm assuming you know how to do this, if you don't refer to your ISP setup instructions) and see what happens. This would eliminate your iBook as the source of the problem.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by ibookin'@mwny
Try plugging your modem (DSL or Cable) directly into the iBook (I'm assuming you know how to do this, if you don't refer to your ISP setup instructions) and see what happens. This would eliminate your iBook as the source of the problem.

I don't have a cable or DSL modem, its cat5 ethernet all the way to my ISP. The ISP uses an unpleasant PPPoE system, however, that my iBook has been unable to connect to directly.

Zapping PRAM also fails to solve the problem.

[beeblebrox87]

*bump*

Tried 10.2.6, still doesn't work. (Didn't think it would, 10.2.6 has nothing to do with networking.)

Tried changing the router's LAN IP and changing the router IP in network prefs accordingly. Still didn't work.

Help!

[Falleron]

Originally posted by beeblebrox87
I don't have a cable or DSL modem, its cat5 ethernet all the way to my ISP. The ISP uses an unpleasant PPPoE system, however, that my iBook has been unable to connect to directly.

Zapping PRAM also fails to solve the problem.
Sounds like it must be the router. I suggest you conncentrate on that. If the laptop does not work in OS9 or OSX then its very unlikely something to do with the iBoook. Is the router something you are able to do a hard reset on + re-configure?? If so, that may be your best bet.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by Falleron
Sounds like it must be the router. I suggest you conncentrate on that. If the laptop does not work in OS9 or OSX then its very unlikely something to do with the iBoook. Is the router something you are able to do a hard reset on + re-configure?? If so, that may be your best bet.

I did a hard reset on the router. After a few hours of it refusing to talk to anything for some reason, I managed to log back into it and re-configure it with the original settings. The iBook still won't go online.

This is getting quite depressing.

[Falleron]

Originally posted by beeblebrox87
I did a hard reset on the router. After a few hours of it refusing to talk to anything for some reason, I managed to log back into it and re-configure it with the original settings. The iBook still won't go online.

This is getting quite depressing.
Do you have another mac which you can use to test the router with (borrow off a friend)? If another mac works then it shows its the iBook at fault.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by Falleron
Do you have another mac which you can use to test the router with (borrow off a friend)? If another mac works then it shows its the iBook at fault.

I don't think there are more than a handful of other macs in this country (Tanzania). I could try an emulator on one of the PCs, but that would only run OS 8.1 and, if the iBook is at fault, its either an OS X problem or a hardware problem, so I don't think running 8.1 would prove anything.

[Falleron]

Did this problem start happening recently? After you installed a particular piece of software?

I hate to suggest say it but you may be facing a re-install, just to make sure your iBook is ok. You should be able to do an install that leaves your home directory intact so that you dont loose any work.

I dont actually believe it is the iBook but I guess that you need to rule the possibility out.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by Falleron
Did this problem start happening recently? After you installed a particular piece of software?

I hate to suggest say it but you may be facing a re-install, just to make sure your iBook is ok. You should be able to do an install that leaves your home directory intact so that you dont loose any work.

I dont actually believe it is the iBook but I guess that you need to rule the possibility out.

No. A few weeks ago (just before the iTunes 4 release) I was reading Slashdot and suddenly I couldn't load anything anymore. Nothing had changed recently. I hadn't installed anything that I recall.

[yzedf]

If the other boxes on your LAN can connect...

This sounds like a problem with your iBook. Is it still in warranty? Does it make a difference for wireless or wired connection? Do you have access to another airport card? Can you use a dial-up connection?

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by yzedf
If the other boxes on your LAN can connect...

This sounds like a problem with your iBook. Is it still in warranty? Does it make a difference for wireless or wired connection? Do you have access to another airport card? Can you use a dial-up connection?

Yes it is still in warranty, but I am thousands of miles away from the nearest place that could ever fix it. As I said in previous posts, I have tried wired and wireless connections. I have a linksys 802.11b PC card, but the since wired doesn't work either I doubt that would, and the iBook has no PCMCIA slot. I don't have a land phone, so have no way of checking dialup.

[yzedf]

Originally posted by beeblebrox87
Yes it is still in warranty, but I am thousands of miles away from the nearest place that could ever fix it. As I said in previous posts, I have tried wired and wireless connections. I have a linksys 802.11b PC card, but the since wired doesn't work either I doubt that would, and the iBook has no PCMCIA slot. I don't have a land phone, so have no way of checking dialup.
If it has a warranty what the heck are you doing wasting time with us for? Call Apple already!

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by yzedf
If it has a warranty what the heck are you doing wasting time with us for? Call Apple already!

As I said above, I don't really have a phone. What's the email of the apple support people? I have asked via their forums ( http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@23.pyiFa46llzq.8@.3bc25fc0 ) and received absolutely no reply there.

Sorry, as a recent 'switch'er my experience has taught me that you're far better off asking users, who know what they're doing, than trying to call Microsoft, who will immediatly tell you to reformat and reinstall. And nobody would even dream of calling Linus about a problem. ;)

[physicsnerd]

Have you tired checking the routing tables? There could be some wierd bug where it got the wrong IP in for the router, and isn't changing it. The check open up a terminal and type "netstat -r -n"

Also, do any of your PCs have two network cards in them? You might try turning on internet conection sharing and going out through a PC. Remember to use a crossover cable if connecting directly to a PC. If you can't go out using a PC as a router, then you'll at least isolate the problem to the ibook.

Also, do you have a HTTP Proxy that your going through? It could just be that the ISP changed the IP or port of it, and you have the old address still entered. Or, maybe they added one and the PCs autodected it while your mac didn't. To check go under System Preferences:Network:Proxies:Web Proxy (HTTP)

Hope this helps,

Physicsnerd
-----------

"Even logic must give way to Physics" - Spock

[zimv20]

i experienced something similar to what you did. my problems started after i loaded 10.2.5 onto my g4. as you described, i couldn't load webpages. what's more, it _seemed_ to be my router (one of those 4-port linksys jobbies), 'cuz the router kept dropping the dsl connection. (but when i disconnected my two 10.2.5 machines from the router, it behaved better)

as it happened, i installed 10.2.5 just hours before 10.2.6 was released. since i couldn't get anything done w/ the internet, i put the jaguar install CD into the g4 and reinstalled the OS using the "archive and install" option (this left all my user prefs).

suddenly, i was able to connect reliably. i d/loaded 10.2.6 combo update (some 90 meg).

but then everything went south again 'cuz my ibook had 10.2.5 on it. after several tries, i remained connected long enough to get 10.2.6 on it (a 6 meg upgrade from 10.2.5).

my router was still acting dodgy, so i d/loaded the latest firmware and installed that. everything is working now.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by physicsnerd
Have you tired checking the routing tables? There could be some wierd bug where it got the wrong IP in for the router, and isn't changing it. The check open up a terminal and type "netstat -r -n"

Also, do any of your PCs have two network cards in them? You might try turning on internet conection sharing and going out through a PC. Remember to use a crossover cable if connecting directly to a PC. If you can't go out using a PC as a router, then you'll at least isolate the problem to the ibook.

Also, do you have a HTTP Proxy that your going through? It could just be that the ISP changed the IP or port of it, and you have the old address still entered. Or, maybe they added one and the PCs autodected it while your mac didn't. To check go under System Preferences:Network:Proxies:Web Proxy (HTTP)

Hope this helps,


Here are the routing tables


Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire
default 192.168.0.4 UGSc 6 3 en1
127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 7 2151 lo0
169.254 link#6 UCS 0 0 en1
192.168.0/16 link#6 UCS 1 0 en1
192.168.0.4 0:6:25:92:8a:f1 UHLW 7 0 en1 998
192.168.0.8 127.0.0.1 UHS 0 1 lo0


What is 0:6:25:92:8a:f1 ?
The router is 192.168.0.4, the iBook is 192.168.0.8.

I have tried to use internet connection sharing on one of my PCs, but that doesn't seem to work when one of the connections is an 802.11b card.

None of my Windows or Linux boxes have a proxy set, but all work fine.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by zimv20
i experienced something similar to what you did. my problems started after i loaded 10.2.5 onto my g4. as you described, i couldn't load webpages. what's more, it _seemed_ to be my router (one of those 4-port linksys jobbies), 'cuz the router kept dropping the dsl connection. (but when i disconnected my two 10.2.5 machines from the router, it behaved better)

as it happened, i installed 10.2.5 just hours before 10.2.6 was released. since i couldn't get anything done w/ the internet, i put the jaguar install CD into the g4 and reinstalled the OS using the "archive and install" option (this left all my user prefs).

suddenly, i was able to connect reliably. i d/loaded 10.2.6 combo update (some 90 meg).

but then everything went south again 'cuz my ibook had 10.2.5 on it. after several tries, i remained connected long enough to get 10.2.6 on it (a 6 meg upgrade from 10.2.5).

my router was still acting dodgy, so i d/loaded the latest firmware and installed that. everything is working now.

As I have said in previous posts, I have updated to 10.2.6 and I have updated my router's firmware (mine is also a 4-port linksys jobbie, with wireless). Nothing has changed.

[physicsnerd]

Originally posted by beeblebrox87

What is 0:6:25:92:8a:f1 ?
The router is 192.168.0.4, the iBook is 192.168.0.8.

I have tried to use internet connection sharing on one of my PCs, but that doesn't seem to work when one of the connections is an 802.11b card.

None of my Windows or Linux boxes have a proxy set, but all work fine. [/B]

0:6:25:92:8a:f1 is the router's MAC (Media Access Control) address, it's just a number that identifies specific hardware on a network. All network cards/routers/ect have them programed in at the factory. The numbers are how the router figures out which computer goes to which IP.

I must say, i'm tottally stumped. I'll let you know if I think of anything.

physicsnerd

----------
"Even logic must give way to Physics" - Spock

[beeblebrox87]

Any random ideas that might jolt this thing enough to get it working again? How do I contact Apple without a phone? I really need help here.

[colocolo]

well, as odd as this may sound, i once solved a problem where i could only get udp packets but no tcp packets by changing the ethernet cable. I have no explanation for that, and you must also have tried it already.

Another thing you might try to debug your connection is to check if your problem is at sending or receiving the packets, and even if its a problem when connecting to port 80.

Can you put a webserver on one of your other machines and check if you can connect to them?

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by colocolo
well, as odd as this may sound, i once solved a problem where i could only get udp packets but no tcp packets by changing the ethernet cable. I have no explanation for that, and you must also have tried it already.

Another thing you might try to debug your connection is to check if your problem is at sending or receiving the packets, and even if its a problem when connecting to port 80.

Can you put a webserver on one of your other machines and check if you can connect to them?

Yes, I've used airport and several different ethernet cables to try and get this working.

I have tried, and I can connect to webservers on my LAN machines. I cannot connect to outside IM networks or other non-port-80 things that use TCP. Basically, it is in no way a port 80 problem.

I do not know if the iBook can receive TCP packets from the outside, and I am not sure how I could test that.

[beeblebrox87]

Ok, looks like I'll have to reinstall. Only problem with this: I can't find the OSX reinstall disks, they are no longer in the little apple envelope that all the disks came in. My internet connection has lately far too slow to download CD images in anything less than 10 days. Unless there is a way to do a reinstall without the reinstall disks, this is looking increasingly grim for the iBook.

[colocolo]

To test if you are receiving TCP packets from outside your LAN, you can set up a webserver in the iBook, set the router to send all port 80 traffic to it, try to connect to the server from another computer, and see if the page loads. If the page doesn't load, then check your log to see if the requests were actually made.

You can then at least know if the problem is with incoming or outgoing packets; if it is incoming, it is probably a router problem, and if it is outgoing then the problem lies mainly on the iBook.

About the reinstall, I don't know of any way to solve your problem.. sorry.

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by colocolo
To test if you are receiving TCP packets from outside your LAN, you can set up a webserver in the iBook, set the router to send all port 80 traffic to it, try to connect to the server from another computer, and see if the page loads. If the page doesn't load, then check your log to see if the requests were actually made.

I don't really have access to any external machines I could try to access it from. My ISP firewalls things nastily, so the only machines beyond my router that could access a webserver on the iBook would be others on this ISP.

[beeblebrox87]

OK, if nobody here has a solution, how can I email a human being at Apple? I bought this machine from an Apple reseller in November so I presume it must still be under warranty, although I did not sign up for Applecare. Does anybody know a way, then, that I can contact Apple without incurring an international phone bill?

[colocolo]

Call them by Phone over IP, its very cheap, its like a local call.

[maradong]

is n t it possible the tcp protocoll is shut down as soon as it is no more needed? it seems to work fine just after getting a new ip. but then, as soon as there is a little pause it will not work anymore.
I really don t know much about network, but well, it could be that the problem, can ' t it ?

[beeblebrox87]

Originally posted by maradong
is n t it possible the tcp protocoll is shut down as soon as it is no more needed? it seems to work fine just after getting a new ip. but then, as soon as there is a little pause it will not work anymore.
I really don t know much about network, but well, it could be that the problem, can ' t it ?

Yes, that does seem a possible cause of the problem, but doesn't really shed much light on how to fix it.

(Although actually, from what I've done it seems that a limited number of bytes can get through before things stop working. On a few occasions I have changed IP, not viewed anything, and found that I could still connect for a short time when I tried hours later.)