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MacRumors
May 5, 2003, 09:06 PM
Macnews.net.tc (http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=10&t=79) pegs the 970 PowerMacs to be due in August, alongside Panther... and confirms the same speeds as MacBidouille. (1.4 single, dual 1.6, 1.8)



MrMacMan
May 5, 2003, 09:22 PM
Maybe they have the same source?

pyrotoaster
May 5, 2003, 09:43 PM
A June announcement with an August release? :confused:

Apple's got to have something on the market in July, or they'll suffer real losses. Who's going to buy a G4 tower when a 970 tower is on the way?

JtheLemur
May 5, 2003, 09:44 PM
And maybe they are SO powerful that they will be ABLE to get COunter-Strike running on a Mac! *gasp!* hehehe :D

joelc
May 5, 2003, 10:14 PM
The real question is, can macnews.net.tc confirm the benchmarks?

Thirteenva
May 5, 2003, 11:01 PM
Nice! we have a confirmation on the speeds. Just can't wait for them to drop one in a powerbook. :)

mim
May 6, 2003, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by joelc
The real question is, can macnews.net.tc confirm the benchmarks?

err...don't mean to flame, but did you read their site?!

It says:

"While we cannot confirm the benchmark results for the PowerPC 970 machines posted by MacBidouille...our sources say the numbers are not too far off."

So - don't know if the benchmarks are vaild, but in anycase they aren't far wrong....

....which I interperet to mean that they aren't quite as spectacular, but here's to hope ;)

a.

Grimace
May 6, 2003, 12:43 AM
WWDC - 970 annoucement
July 970 towers released
August - 970 PBs released

nickmcghie
May 6, 2003, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by carletonmusic
WWDC - 970 annoucement
July 970 towers released
August - 970 PBs released

hmmm.. i highly doubt they'd release 970 powerbooks one month after debuting the 970 in powermacs.. it would take away some attention from what will arguably be the most dramatic update to the powermac line ever.. if i were to take a wild guess, i'd say at least 6 months

LordNadroj
May 6, 2003, 01:35 AM
I just ordered a PowerMac G4 Dual 1.42 Ghz with EVERYTHING including two 17 inch monitors. Should I cancel my order? Please respond with what you would do.

MacBandit
May 6, 2003, 01:47 AM
I wouldn't exactly call this a confirmation on the speeds since these are the same numbers for potential speeds that have been tossed around since last August. I think this is maybe a bunch of old news mixed with a small amount of new news and being sold as all new.

kdavis
May 6, 2003, 05:41 AM
I don't know if this is any sort of hint or not...
I attended an Library trade show here in Maine this past weekend and Apple had a booth. I was talking to the (very nice) guy there, lamenting the fact that we don't have an Apple store here in Maine (he said there has been lobbying by employees to get one up here). Anyway, his booth was set up with an eMac, an iMac, a 12" iBook, a 15" iBook and a 15" TiBook. While talking about the iMac, he said, very offhand, that he usually demoed with a minitower but that Apple had "called them back" so he had to use the iMac that day. Don't know what it means, but it seemed kind of odd to me.

arn
May 6, 2003, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by LordNadroj
I just ordered a PowerMac G4 Dual 1.42 Ghz with EVERYTHING including two 17 inch monitors. Should I cancel my order? Please respond with what you would do.

if you need it now... then keep it.

these are all just rumors... no one is certain when... you may be waiting a long time if things don't pan out.

arn

dguisinger
May 6, 2003, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by arn
if you need it now... then keep it.

these are all just rumors... no one is certain when... you may be waiting a long time if things don't pan out.

arn

I always love these questions. If you are reading these forums........you should know the answer. Its not a secret that these machines have been rumored to debut between June and August for the past 3 months. Anyone who knows that, and doesnt have an immediate need, who goes ahead and orders, and then asks in my opinion is a complete idiot. :)

Anyone who knows that, but has an immediate need, is usually smart enough not to ask if they should cancel it because it doesn't serve their purpose.

I don't want to be too harsh, but the answer should be obvious in either case....
1) These are rumors
2) Apple sometimes sneaks announcements by (Like they pretty much did with no knowledge of the 17" upto the night before)
3) Blame yourself, not us. If you ask us for a decision, then you can blame us for wasting your money, or for the delay in your purchase......I'm sorry, your decision, move on, new topic

Frobozz
May 6, 2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by JtheLemur
And maybe they are SO powerful that they will be ABLE to get COunter-Strike running on a Mac! *gasp!* hehehe :D

LOL!!!

That _would_ be pretty sweet.

Frobozz
May 6, 2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by LordNadroj
I just ordered a PowerMac G4 Dual 1.42 Ghz with EVERYTHING including two 17 inch monitors. Should I cancel my order? Please respond with what you would do.

I say stick with what you ordered. The prices on the existing machines is probably going to be a good deal lower than the new 970 based systems. Also, you need to look at this from a global perspective... if the 970 do indeed come out in June-Aug this year, you'll have a dual 1.42 G4 which is plenty fast. By the time they hit the first round of 980's in mid 2004 (or whenever) you'll be ready to upgrade again. By then, all your friends who shelled out for expensive 970's will be groveling because you bought a 980.

You should feel good about that purchase.

Frobozz
May 6, 2003, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by mim
err...don't mean to flame, but did you read their site?!

It says:

"While we cannot confirm the benchmark results for the PowerPC 970 machines posted by MacBidouille...our sources say the numbers are not too far off."

So - don't know if the benchmarks are vaild, but in anycase they aren't far wrong....

....which I interperet to mean that they aren't quite as spectacular, but here's to hope ;)

a.

yeah, even if they aren't as spectacular as those numbers suggest, we'll still have mac faster than anything in the PC world. That alone is HUGE.

mcs37
May 6, 2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Frobozz
By the time they hit the first round of 980's in mid 2004 (or whenever) you'll be ready to upgrade again. By then, all your friends who shelled out for expensive 970's will be groveling because you bought a 980.

Is there such a thing as the PPC 980? I see that in forums everywhere as a joke, but I've never heard about it before.

If you need that system now, stand by your decision. Otherwise wait to see what the WWDC reveals in June.

benoda
May 6, 2003, 08:49 AM
The only reason I believe the 970 might show up in the powerbook so quickly is simply due to the statement that this year is "the year of the laptop."

Bar that and there's no way I would believe the 970 would show up in a powerbook until next year......

yzedf
May 6, 2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Frobozz
I say stick with what you ordered. The prices on the existing machines is probably going to be a good deal lower than the new 970 based systems. Also, you need to look at this from a global perspective... if the 970 do indeed come out in June-Aug this year, you'll have a dual 1.42 G4 which is plenty fast. By the time they hit the first round of 980's in mid 2004 (or whenever) you'll be ready to upgrade again. By then, all your friends who shelled out for expensive 970's will be groveling because you bought a 980.

You should feel good about that purchase.
I disagree with your pricing theory. IBM is going to be using the 970 in their own products, which leads to much higher volume production. Apple can not afford to release the 970 at a premium above what they are charging now. If they do (and they probably will), people will complain LOUDLY. For you bang per buck, the only one Apple could charge a premium for is if the do a dual 1.8GHz or something similar. Myself, I want them to go back to single proc boxes. The only reason the offer duals is because the single G4 machines have been getting stomped on by AMD / Intel for 2 years now.

To the person asking about their order: cancel it. Also, what do you mean by maxed out? Are you talking about the nearly $7500 by the time you add 4 hdd's and all that jazz? If so, you are very foolish to order that right now.

Scratch all of the above if you need this machine in the next week or two. Just don't complain about your buyer's remorse to me! ;)

LordNadroj
May 6, 2003, 03:43 PM
This is what I bought:

POWER MAC G4 CTO Z079 $3,023.00

Dual 1.42GHz w/2MB L3
065-4189
512MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM-1 DIMM
065-3704
120GB Ultra ATA-7200rpm
065-4103
Super (DVD-R/CD-RW)
065-4099
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
065-3921
Ultra SCSI PCI Card & Adptr
065-3232
56K Internal Modem
065-3138
BlueTooth
065-4143
AirPort Card
065-4187

With a few obvious things removed. I also got an extra gig of ram and the two 17 inch monitors.

The monitors have shipped, but the computer hasn't yet. The computer isn't essential right now, but it'd be very nice to have. So you really think I should cancel?

DGFan
May 6, 2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by LordNadroj
The monitors have shipped, but the computer hasn't yet. The computer isn't essential right now, but it'd be very nice to have. So you really think I should cancel?

It really depends on what the value is in having a computer right now. Given the problems they had delivering the 17" PowerBook and the rush that might ensue when the 970 PMs are released you might be looking at September before it ships. And who knows what the price will be?

If it's worth waiting 4 months and paying a little more to get the better system, then wait. But that will always be true when buying computers.

Sucks, doesn't it?
:D

pfranzen
May 6, 2003, 04:19 PM
PowerPC 970 is the IBM Power 4 derivative...
PowerPC 980 is the IBM Power 5 derivative...

If apple goes with the 970 then its extremely likely that the next major upgrade will be the 980, with as mentioned a High End Power 5 Workstation possible as well; for a PRICE.

macrumors12345
May 6, 2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by mcs37
Is there such a thing as the PPC 980?

It has never been confirmed. I think some site (possibly MacBidouille) just slapped that name onto the possible Power 5 derivative, and then it stuck. Now everybody is using it, even though there is no reason to believe that the processor will be called that (besides common sense), assuming it even exists.

At any rate, there has never been any reliable confirmation that a Power 5 derivative is planned, but it would certainly make sense for them to produce one. So I wouldn't be surprised if they someday produce a PPC derivative of Power 5, and I wouldn't even be shocked if they chose to call it PPC 980. But no one knows.

mim
May 6, 2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by macrumors12345
It has never been confirmed. I think some site (possibly MacBidouille) just slapped that name onto the possible Power 5 derivative, and then it stuck. Now everybody is using it, even though there is no reason to believe that the processor will be called that (besides common sense), assuming it even exists.

At any rate, there has never been any reliable confirmation that a Power 5 derivative is planned, but it would certainly make sense for them to produce one. So I wouldn't be surprised if they someday produce a PPC derivative of Power 5, and I wouldn't even be shocked if they chose to call it PPC 980. But no one knows.

MacB it was indeed, though I think I remember that they got news of it through a page on a German IBM Blade server site...I can't find a cache or mirror to confirm this.

However, for those interested in speculation about relative performace of all these chips, check out this site: http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/CPUs.html

I appologise in advance if this on'es already been done to death.

a.

MacAficionado
May 6, 2003, 10:52 PM
Man, everything is just falling into place. Do you really doubt that Apple is not doing something to change the G4?

Now we have new keyboards on the eMacs, those will likely be the keyboards for the re-designed PowerMacs. It is just too obvious, in my experience with Mac rumors, this is definitely one that I believe is going to happen. Just wait, G5's (970) are coming. Soon someone will post a picture of one, you'll see.

Hail to the Mac Baby, we're coming back to contention!

GregA
May 7, 2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by macrumors12345
It has never been confirmed. I think some site (possibly MacBidouille) just slapped that name onto the possible Power 5 derivative, and then it stuck.
...
At any rate, there has never been any reliable confirmation that a Power 5 derivative is planned, but it would certainly make sense for them to produce one. So I wouldn't be surprised if they someday produce a PPC derivative of Power 5, and I wouldn't even be shocked if they chose to call it PPC 980. But no one knows. The Power5 is designed as a mid-low end chip to start with (unlike the Power4 which was high end, and is 'cut down' as a 970)
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/04/HNibmroad_1.html

Would Apple really need a 980, or is the Power5 itself good enough? I guess Altivec is an issue here?

mim
May 7, 2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by GregAussie
Would Apple really need a 980, or is the Power5 itself good enough? I guess Altivec is an issue here?

Errr - have you seen the size of the power5? It's about as big as a 12" pb ;)

Also goes through 150Watts or so. So no - the power5 is not good enough, but not for the reason you think.

MacBandit
May 7, 2003, 02:25 AM
In either case the 980 is probably a couple years off if not longer. There is a revision of the 970 due early next year to move it to the 90nm die. That will carry Apple for at least another year or so.

benoda
May 7, 2003, 08:45 AM
The 970 hasn't even hit the street (or officially announced for that matter) and y'all are already talking about the 980!?!!? :)

I say let's see what happens this summer - who knows how much headroom the 970 has. Especially when the 90nm switch occurs.

dongmin
May 7, 2003, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by macrumors12345
It has never been confirmed. I think some site (possibly MacBidouille) just slapped that name onto the possible Power 5 derivative, and then it stuck. Now everybody is using it, even though there is no reason to believe that the processor will be called that (besides common sense), assuming it even exists.

At any rate, there has never been any reliable confirmation that a Power 5 derivative is planned, but it would certainly make sense for them to produce one. So I wouldn't be surprised if they someday produce a PPC derivative of Power 5, and I wouldn't even be shocked if they chose to call it PPC 980. But no one knows.


actually I think it's here on MacRumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/11/20021124221123.shtml) where it all got started.

steve53e
May 7, 2003, 07:39 PM
Whether a derivative of the Power 5 makes it's way into the Apple line at some point in the future is questionable, the power of this chip doesn't seem to be in question.
.
http://www.itweek.co.uk/News/1137113

rotlex
May 12, 2003, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by LordNadroj
I just ordered a PowerMac G4 Dual 1.42 Ghz with EVERYTHING including two 17 inch monitors. Should I cancel my order? Please respond with what you would do.

Mmm, been following this thread, and as someone in a sort of similar situation, I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. :D

I'm a current PC/Windows user, or maybe that's a switcher in waiting, LOL. Anyway, my current rig is nearly 4 years old. (PIII 800, 512 Ram, original Gforce etc. etc.) I've been DYING to switch out ever since OS X really, and this year, I felt it finally justified to replace my current system. I nearly ordered a new G4 1.42 last week, but I just couldn't do it! I know holding out for the next best thing in the computer world is normally futile, but this just seems to big. Personally, I'd kick myself if I didn't hold out just 2 months or so, heck it's been a few years already, drop 3 grand, only to find out Apple has moved away from Moto, released a machine with the 970, and basically made my investment outdated before I even paid it off. Anyone can say this is just the chance you take with technology, but with everything I've read of late, it just seems worth it to wait it out. At least in my case anyway, where in reality, I have a perfectly useable PC for the next few months.

Again, just my 2 cents, but felt the need to share. :)

MacsRgr8
Jun 5, 2003, 03:08 PM
Yeah, and you'd be wondering why Apple didn't say anything about a new PowerMac @ WWDC.....

Just a simple word of advice:
If you CAN wait until June 23rd, then wait. You'll probably be wiser then.
If nothing is announced @ WWDC, go get it...... and don't be surprized if Apple launches the nw PowerMac 970 one week later. :)

Get my point? You'll never know. Timing is luck. Maybe getting the first (rev. A) version of the 970 will be a bad choice (unstable, problems with ethernet...)
I'm happy I got my Dual 1.25 a few months ago. :)

My opinion:
YOU WANT IT NOW? GET IT NOW.

The Shadow
Jun 6, 2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Yeah, and you'd be wondering why Apple didn't say anything about a new PowerMac @ WWDC.....

Just a simple word of advice:
If you CAN wait until June 23rd, then wait. You'll probably be wiser then.
If nothing is announced @ WWDC, go get it...... and don't be surprized if Apple launches the nw PowerMac 970 one week later. :)


Agreed, wait.

I am in a similar posi to Rotlex, in the sense That my PowerMac is coming on 3 years old. If a normal revision or speed bump was expected, than I wouldn't care, I'd go out and buy. In fact, that happened when I bought my current PM - but I didn't give a hoot.

My strategy then was that I bought the lowest end PM, so no matter what happened, I knew I would still not be able to get a new PM any cheaper. And back then, a low end PM had easily the same performance as a high end Pentium (1.2 Ghz) at high end tasks. So when a spedd bump came along 3 months later, didn't bother me.

I see the same scenario returning. Good times ahead for PM buyers. But because I've got an older Mac, I'll be prepared to wait up to 6 months for the next big thing, cause it might be REALLY BIG. Not just a speed bump and minor case revision. Radical increase in performance, and a major case overhaul is years overdue.

job
Jun 6, 2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Who's going to buy a G4 tower when a 970 tower is on the way?

Imagine the current stock of G4s becoming the "low-end G4 system" everyone's been wanting. :D

ZeeOwl
Jun 9, 2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by job
Imagine the current stock of G4s becoming the "low-end G4 system" everyone's been wanting. :D

Haha! That would be quite ironic. But, I think you may have something there. I mean, Apple will have to "dump" these machines, if they want them to sell. Could be compensated by a higher introductory price on the new machines. With such a huge boost in speed, they'd sell anyways. Be mostly bought by pros. Then they'd bring the prices back to current levels once the G4 PowerMacs are gone.... Or, if they're selling like hotcakes, and volume makes up for lower margins. Keep making more...

job
Jun 9, 2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by ZeeOwl
Be mostly bought by pros. Then they'd bring the prices back to current levels once the G4 PowerMacs are gone.... Or, if they're selling like hotcakes, and volume makes up for lower margins. Keep making more...

Imagine picking up a a dual 1.42 for around a grand. :eek:

All the expandability you need combined with a lower cost...

Apple could clear out it's current stock of G4 towers if it sold them at dirt cheap prices if they release the 970.

No need to design a pizza box low end system. Just take the current tower design and mark down the price. :)

It would make everyone happy. Consumers will get more bang for their buck, prosumers would have all the expandability they would need at consumer prices, and pros, well, they get the 970. :p :D