Apple Keyboard and Apple Mouse

[MacRumors]

Alongside the new eMacs, Apple also introduced the aptly named "Apple Keyboard and Apple Mouse". Rumors of minor revisions emerged (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030427011347.shtml) in late April, with Apple prematurely hanging banners (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030503144457.shtml) in the Apple store depicting the new accessories.

Photo of Keyboard (http://a560.g.akamai.net/7/560/51/c4208e49e8e908/www.apple.com/r/store/gallery/emac2003/images/5.jpg), Photo of Mouse (http://a592.g.akamai.net/7/592/51/abcf2d943be5b0/www.apple.com/r/store/gallery/emac2003/images/4.jpg)

[patrick0brien]

What's different about the mouse?

[baby duck monge]

well i like the keyboard. putting the USB ports in the back instead of the sides will make things look a lot nicer, and plugs should be easier to work with on a desk. i also like that the keyboard actually sits on a slant - the bar on the old ones did nothing to actually keep the keyboard tilted, and i had to put the case from a zip disk underneath.

as far as the mouse goes, though, i can't see anything different. what is special about this mouse? am i just missing something?

::edited for spelling because i apparently have a hard time typing::

[bokdol]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
What's different about the mouse?

it looks like you cant adjust the laser. before there was a wheel around it.

[Snowy_River]

It looks like it is just as was expected. I'll look forward to seeing one of these in person...

[baby duck monge]

Originally posted by bokdol
it looks like you cant adjust the laser. before there was a wheel around it.

as i understand things, the wheel was not for the laser, but rather for the button. changing the settings changed how hard you had to push to get the "clicking" action.

[mangoman]

Hate to pitchabitch about Apple, but what's up with this lame-o one button mouse? Looks pretty, goes directly in drawer to get replaced by my Logitech 2 button with the mighty mighty scrollwheel.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally posted by jayb2000
So the revision is White instead of black?

yawn

They were white before. Apple has offered black and white versions for both the mouse and keyboard since the G4 iMacs were released.

The physical design of the keyboard is what's changed.

[JtheLemur]

Okay, that keyboard doesn't look adjustable... big downer for all of us who like typing on a flat keyboard (better for your hands and wrists!)

[morlium]

for what it's worth, Apple.com isn't selling it.

where did these pictures come from?

[rdas7]

Oooh! I love the new mouse! I can't wait to get one!


(The wheel around the laser is to adjust click-sensitivity of the mouse body. In the three different positions, the mouse must either be pressed more firmly or lighter to do a "click" - it's so subtle though)

[Kamu-San]

What's the diff with the mouse?

[a_kim]

Originally posted by mangoman
Hate to pitchabitch about Apple, but what's up with this lame-o one button mouse? Looks pretty, goes directly in drawer to get replaced by my Logitech 2 button with the mighty mighty scrollwheel.


Amen to that. I love Logitech.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by morlium
for what it's worth, Apple.com isn't selling it.

where did these pictures come from?

goto www.applestore.com click on emac and then at the bottom click "Photo gallery" and the pictures are down there.

enjoy.

[Future Man]

I wonder if this keyboard is 64-bit compatible...lol. I agree With JtheLemur, what about adjustability?
And to me there seems absolutely no change in the pretty but pretty unfunctional mouse.

[morlium]

... so this is an eMac-only peripheral?

the store still sells the Pro Keyboard ...

[pfranzen]

I agree...whats the point of apple mice with only 1 button...ok I confess I am a converted but jez...

Logitech must be rubbing their hands together...

Sign me up for the MULTIPLE button scroll wheel APPLE mouse...Stop wasting natures resources by producing useless plastic Apple!

;P

PS i keep mine on my bookcase cuz it sure does look pretty. Unfortunately I use my computer for WORK as well as ART! Me BAD!

[macdong]

Apple really needs to stop making these one-button useless mouse.
Sure it's pretty, but adding one more button won't kill it.
not for Apple, no sir.
So what's keeping ya???

[evoluzione]

hmm, odd one this, i liked the adjustment bar on the "old" keyboard. the new one looks too chunky, and possibly cheaper. as for the ports on the back, don't like it, the table i have my iMac on is small, and the keyboard is right up against the dome base, with the new ports, it takes up valuable room.

and why is everyone bitching about the one button mouse??? i've never needed a second button, even with photoshop and quark etc, i used to have a two button mouse, when i had a commodore amiga. the one button mouse is an apple trademark! i think they should stick with it :)

[Chisholm]

Hmmmm. I wonder if this new design might be a little pre-bluetooth experiment. Otherwise it seems little use to just make the keyboard thicker in the rear. I do love the USB in the rear.

cheers!
John

[Sedulous]

Actually, the area around the aperature of the "laser" looks slightly different and it only says "Mouse" rather than "Pro Mouse".

Most people I know are happy with the single button mouse. You can operate more options using the keyboard since there are far more keys there than you could fit on the mouse itself. To satisfy critics, Apple really should offer a multi-buttoned "Pro Mouse" as a BTO option. Perhaps that is why Apple now has a plain "Mouse" for sale (read as sign of upcoming changes to pro designs).

[soosy]

Originally posted by baby duck monge
well i like the keyboard. putting the USB ports in the back instead of the sides will make things look a lot nicer, and plugs should be easier to work with on a desk. i also like that the keyboard actually sits on a slant - the bar on the old ones did nothing to actually keep the keyboard tilted, and i had to put the case from a zip disk underneath.

I believe it is recommended to never use keyboard "kickstands" due to repetitive stress injuries. I can't find a relevant link at the moment... but it tends to bend your wrists back when they should be straight.

the old keyboard slants slightly up even with the kickstand down.... in fact, if you look from the side, it looks the same as the new one.

[knoxer]

This is the "Apple Mouse" and the "Apple Keyboard"

These are the 'cheap' versions of the "Apple PRO Mouse" and "Apple PRO Keyboard"

There is nothing better about them, they are cheaper to make and are therefor included with the eMac. I'm predicting that at least the PowerMac will continue to use the Pro hardware, if not the iMac as well.

[mactastic]

hehe...I sure hope this isn't the rumored "communication device"

[WannabeSQ]

one observation I made, they are no longer called "Pro" equipment, which might mean that new "Pro" stuff might be on the way with the next powermac revision. Leave the one button mouse to eMac buyers and have something better for the pro users. Sounds feasable to me at least.

[Backtothemac]

Has anyone stopped to consider that this keyboard and mouse is called just "keyboard" and "Mouse". Notice the "pro" has been dropped from the name.

That keyboard could easily house a bluetooth connection. Could we see new "pro" keyboards in July at WWDC?

[nagromme]

I'm with those who think this is a low-end, reduced-cost model--and that an actual IMPROVED keyboard and mouse will be future products.

By the way, the new keyboard, judging from the back view, has no spaces between the F keys (who cares, just noticing), a bigger Esc key... and an additional key in the top right, also bigger than the others. 14 keys across the top of the alpha keyboard instead of the old 13. Wonder what the new key is?

Also less deep front-to-back, which isn't a bad thing--although once you add USB plugs in the rear you lose that space savings.

[macstudent]

maybe the new mouse will have a longer cord since it now must reach behind the keyboard.

[ennerseed]

Does this mean we will soon see a new Apple "Pro" Keyboard, Apple "Pro" Mouse?

Multibutton Please!

[DakotaGuy]

Originally posted by nagromme
I'm with those who think this is a low-end, reduced-cost model--and that an actual IMPROVED keyboard and mouse will be future products.

By the way, the new keyboard, judging from the back view, has no spaces between the F keys (who cares, just noticing), a bigger Esc key... and an additional key in the top right, also bigger than the others. 14 keys across the top of the alpha keyboard instead of the old 13. Wonder what the new key is?

Also less deep front-to-back, which isn't a bad thing--although once you add USB plugs in the rear you lose that space savings.

YES I AGREE! I can't believe no one else sees this. This is a eMac only keyboard and mouse. This were designed to save a few dollars. My guess is taking the adjustable foot off of the keyboard and making a few changes to "lighten up" the mouse and keyboard, they save a dollar or two and every unit sold. It helps profit and in turn will help them slowely bring down the eMacs price. The differences are so small that most will hardly notice.

The Pro keyboard and Pro Mouse will continue to ship with the iMacs and PowerMacs. This is nothing more then a cost saving measure. They might be redesigned in the near future and they might not be. I don't think this keyboard and mouse are anything different then changing to a painted iBook.

It looks like a pretty nice keyboard design and should meet the goals they were going after. I wonder if it will ever be sold as an accessory or not.

[evoluzione]

Originally posted by Sedulous
Actually, the area around the aperature of the "laser" looks slightly different and it only says "Mouse" rather than "Pro Mouse".

Most people I know are happy with the single button mouse. You can operate more options using the keyboard since there are far more keys there than you could fit on the mouse itself. To satisfy critics, Apple really should offer a multi-buttoned "Pro Mouse" as a BTO option. Perhaps that is why Apple now has a plain "Mouse" for sale (read as sign of upcoming changes to pro designs).

i agree, looks like they may be going to offer a new pro mouse and have this as the standard for shipping with the consumer machines. a bto pro mouse would be a great thing i reckon, i'm happy with the one button, but an apple option would be sweet.

[G4scott]

These might be for the eMac only...

It wouldn't work for me, because right behind my keyboard is this power controller thing with buttons, and the USB cables can push in the buttons if I push the keyboard back. That, and the extra 2 inches that it adds to the width of the keyboard will make it too big for my desk...

It looks like a nice keyboard, but to me, a keyboard is a keyboard...

[ennerseed]

Pro Mouse/Keyboard still shows 1-3 days ship time.

[nagromme]

It looks slightly narrower (less margin), not wider. Same front-to-back--which I bet looks nice, if nothing else.

The one view we haven't seen it the one you'd actually see in use!

[tsunake]

It also appears that the "grips" on the side of the mouse are indented (more?). I've never used my pro mouse, but I remember the "grips" to be hard to locate and useless.

[evoluzione]

Originally posted by tsunake
It also appears that the "grips" on the side of the mouse are indented (more?). I've never used my pro mouse, but I remember the "grips" to be hard to locate and useless.

i guess it all depends on the size of your hands? the grips are perfect for me, and truth be told, the old puck style mouse was ok too, i have big hands and it fits my fingers well, not many mice (mouses?) fit my hand, just my fingers.

[mkaake]

wow, this is sounding like it might turn into another great fight of one versus two + buttons, which if i remember correctly, we had just one week ago... but i'm sure soo much has changed since then.

in other news - for all of you who dump you apple mice the second you get them, i'd be more than happy to take at least one of them off of your hands (no, seriously)

matt

[iDork]

Originally posted by evoluzione
hmm, odd one this, i liked the adjustment bar on the "old" keyboard. the new one looks too chunky, and possibly cheaper. as for the ports on the back, don't like it, the table i have my iMac on is small, and the keyboard is right up against the dome base, with the new ports, it takes up valuable room.

and why is everyone bitching about the one button mouse??? i've never needed a second button, even with photoshop and quark etc, i used to have a two button mouse, when i had a commodore amiga. the one button mouse is an apple trademark! i think they should stick with it :)


LOL--you and steve jobs must the only ones who don't need the 2nd button. :p

[C14ru5]

Originally posted by nagromme
By the way, the new keyboard, judging from the back view, has no spaces between the F keys (who cares, just noticing), a bigger Esc key... and an additional key in the top right, also bigger than the others. 14 keys across the top of the alpha keyboard instead of the old 13. Wonder what the new key is?What about the return of the POWER BUTTON??? Please??? At least I am allowed to believe such a thing...

[nagromme]

By the way, even WITH the mouse plug sticking out the back, this keyboard is less deep than the old--so that's one improvement.

First, the margins on all edges are even smaller than currently (I HATE the big wasted margins on PC keyboards!). That reduces the depth.

Second, no "sticking-out part" in back like we have now. The keyboard's own cable can now be less in the way than before--by a good 3/4 inch or more.

Third, hold up your mouse plug at the back of your keyboard (remember, the metal part goes inside) and see: the plug is less deep than the "sticking out part"--so the mouse cord won't stick out any more than the keyboard cable currently does.

I also think the rear port location is better (other than being hidden to shoppers)--the mouse cord coming out the side gets in my way. Not to mention that the current vertical ports always make me try twice to get the plug right.

The lack of an ergonomic "flat" position is a shame--but I've seldom seen anyone actually use that (even me) despite the health benefits. So I guess the flip stand was one part they could do without to save $.

Oddly, Apple folks sometimes REALLY hate change, for its own sake. Me too, sometimes. This doesn't seem too bad though.

I hope Apple brings back the split keyboard on the high end!

As for mouse buttons, obviously people like it both ways, where's the controversy there? I hope Apple offers both choices in future.

(PS, those Apple Store banners have mirrored the image, making it look like the numpad layout has changed--but now we can see it the right way at apple.com.)

[dstorey]

I think this is good news and it's al in the name as others before hav mentioned. I've always used a two button mouse (or three in unix) and I find it hard to live without a scroll wheel now (much more so than tabs in a browser), and I guess many switchers feel the same (and of course they need to be catered for if the market share is gonna grom - just ho many people have never used a computer and of them how many are ever likely to? not many, and most I guess).

Well when all the rumours stated the mouse and keyboard was little changed I was pretty disapointed. Now it turns out they are for the eMac and just called mouse and keyboard. Most people money it seems is on the pro mouse/keyboard name still being used for better mice/keyboards and I agree. I would say its likely that apple will offer the pro with towers and hopefully iMacs with possibly bluetooth and (prays) scroll function and two buttons. This would cater for both camps cause all the one button fans could specify one button apple mouse and apple keyboard when ordering and get a reduction or just use their old one. I really hope the put the pro into the pro mice/keyboard as it was quite a laughable title with such a basic mouse, even if it was and still is very beautiful.

[Eniregnat]

As of this moment, Apple has not changed its photos on its pr site. They still show the same old eMac with the old pro keyboard.

[metfoo]

ok, its a red LED, not a LASER!!!!


sorry, i hate how people call the optical mice laser mice.

could this mean apple will release a new "pro" mouse? possibly with support for a third button as some of their "pro" apps require?


Could the pro mouse also have the rotary wheel? This could be useful when editting audio and video.

[CrackedButter]

Ports today, even USB ones suck if they are at the back of ANYTHING, at least on the side of the keyboard you could plug in the USB device the right way and see what you are doing, many a time i've had to move around the back to plug something in, its not like firewire where its a non-symmetrical shape.

Also if its at the side, its a natural thing to unplug and easy on the wrists if you pull away from your side, you are not bending your wrist as much but with anything at the back of a laptop or keyboard you sometimes have to lean forward or lower the screen to get access. Thankfully the iBooks are done right.

However, i went to college last week where they have rooms full of imacs and they have this one button mouse i have heard so much about, i'm sorry but those suck so much as well. Then in the other room at college, all the power macs have logitech 2 button mice.

What does that say? Only pro users should use 2 button mice? Lame, so lame, there is not even a scroll wheel on the apple PRO mouse, 1995 comes to mind when using it, thankfully i don't have to again.

What makes it a contradiction is the fact there isn't a 2 button mousepad on the PRO line of laptops.

Yes yes, i hear you already "Buy a 2 button mouse", but why should i? Why can it not be BTO and let the customer decide. Shouldn't cost anything either.

Its one of those things that i dislike about Apple, 1 button mice/mousepads, no apple stores in the UK and long delivery times.

Everything else however i love, but rather have this end as a bitch, it does show however that Apple isn't perfect and i'm not moaning about any prices either. :)

Just long delivery times and a 1 button mouse.

[bidge]

I have a really high quality eps shot of the keyboard from front on,

instead of having gaps in between the Function keys the escape key is longer and the first row goes up to F13, the R 13 key being the other long one.

Then the other three keys goes up to F16

The otehr thing that I notice about it is that the keyboard is not clear above the arrow keys but white....

They kesy are not rounded like on the pro keyboards but instead are pretty straight, this is on the bottom....

Also, the acse just surrounds it and looks a fair bit different..

[Sedulous]

"ok, its a red LED, not a LASER!!!!

Yeah, I know, that is why I put quotes around "laser".

LED based lasers do exist tho:

Coherent (http://www.cohr.com/Products/index.cfm?fuseaction=Interfaces.ProductLine&PCID=23&PLID=27)

I still don't get the white mice being sold with pro equipment.

[rockman2023]

Originally posted by macdong
Apple really needs to stop making these one-button useless mouse.
Sure it's pretty, but adding one more button won't kill it.
not for Apple, no sir.
So what's keeping ya???

Yeah! My mom recently bought a PC, and as soon as it arrived, I took the 3-button mouse to use it; I loved it. Apple needs to step up to plate and conform to our needs (sounds selfish, but it's us that keeps 'em alive). Anyway, as soon as I get my hands on some $$$, goodbye Pro Mouse! :o

[andrewlandry]

still using one-button mice is bad enough - but actually going through the trouble to design another one - dear god, why?

and if they do make the pro mice two-button and leave the regular ones at one-button, that seems silly too. are powermac users the only people smart enough to understand the overwhelming complexity of the two-buttoned mouse?

right-clicking and getting a contextual menu is actually much easier for many people than actually learning what menus to go to etc.

i have a logitech and a microsoft intellimouse explorer (very good mouse, but looks really lame next to the pro keyboard).

[LimeLite]

Hold ctrl -> click mouse -> stop bitching.

Should they make a two-button mouse? Yeah, probably. I use one on my PowerMac.
Is it absolutely necessary? No.
Are there ways around it? Yes.

$15-$20 will get you an optical two-button mouse.

Instead of talking to other people who agree with you, start writing emails to Apple and get *their* attention. Pretty much everyone here already agrees they should make a two-button mouse, so whining about it on here ain't gonna change it.

And for anyone who says that Apple frequents message boards: Trust me, Apple already knows peolple want a two-button mouse. They don't need to read a new thread every week on the same topic.

[itsbetteronamac]

Originally posted by baby duck monge
as i understand things, the wheel was not for the laser, but rather for the button. changing the settings changed how hard you had to push to get the "clicking" action.

Well I tryed adjusting the wheel on the old Apple Pro Mouse and I found is that when you turn it to + the button is more springing and when you turn in to the - the button is more sqishy. Kinda like a soft touch keyboard compared to a more old clicky keyboard. I Found out also that in + mode the button reacts faster when you let go of the button.

[tjwett]

One difference I can see with the mouse is that the bottom is no longer see-thru. It is now opaque white. And BTW, the wheel on the bottom of the old mouse was used to adjust the sensitivity of the button.

[pfranzen]

I find it really hard to believe that people defend the one button mouse. I mean the argument that 'there are ways areound it' is just weak. Another way around it is to buy a windows computer...

For you information there are pro software out there that absolutely requires even three buttons on the mouse to be usable.

I love lying back on my armchair in my house and surf the web like now (escept this thread is making me type now...bah) and I dont even have the keyboard around.

Come on guys...I uae Apple products because they are designed to be easy to use so why should I have to use keyboard ad mouse combinations to perform easy tasks. Like for instance mapping any keyboard combination to my thumb button on my logitech. Currently it is set to step back in my browser...now thats efficient use of a mouse...

And the wheel...dont even get me started on that one lol. If i have to click to scroll down AND move my cursor, wherever it may be, in order to read a thread on the internet...blah blah blah

Sry for ranting...I blame it on my 4th expresso sry.

[pfranzen]

If you read my previous post then I apologise for not spell-checking er and grammar checking it and oh well...maybe I SHOULD use the keyboard more lol...

[contempt]

I can't believe this warrants a revision. Maybe with the keyboad I can see. But the mouse???

Apple needs to understand that the old simplicity of having only one button is the same as running OS 1.0. If they've been writing their OS from scratch, they better do the same with input peripherals. They're still sticking to the basic Xerox Parc experiment. I could not live without my 5-button scroll wheel mouse. Sure it looks like a mouse and not a work of art, but I'm incredibly productive with it.

Just imagine all those PC users who will laugh when Apple finally decides to release a 2-button mouse as a big revision. Wow!

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by contempt
I can't believe this warrants a revision. Maybe with the keyboad I can see. But the mouse???

Apple needs to understand that the old simplicity of having only one button is the same as running OS 1.0. If they've been writing their OS from scratch, they better do the same with input peripherals. They're still sticking to the basic Xerox Parc experiment. I could not live without my 5-button scroll wheel mouse. Sure it looks like a mouse and not a work of art, but I'm incredibly productive with it.

Just imagine all those PC users who will laugh when Apple finally decides to release a 2-button mouse as a big revision. Wow!

I understand you point, and feel a similar way about my 2-button w/scroll wheel, but here's the issue.

As has been said countless times before, go buy another mouse if you need one.

However, there is the issue of consistency. Sure, I work like a speed demon with my two button, but as soon as I go to another mac with the stock 1-button mouse, it jolts me and annoys me to use the keyboard for the right-click. I'd imagine going to a 1- from a 5- is even worse, and not to Apple's advantage. For the average user, say a first time Apple user, they get used to 1-button, then go to another mac with a 2-button, that's just going to confuse people, and that's again everything their GUIs and Human Interfaces stand for.

[twalkabout]

If you want to try out the most comfortable and efficient scrolling device, try out the ShuttlePRO or ShuttleXpress from Countour Designs:

http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/

http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/shuttlexpress.htm

I picked up the ShuttlePRO for some Final Cut Pro work, but then I started using it to scroll while web browsing, (I use my right hand on the mouse and left on the ShuttlePRO). It's got this rubber-coated spring-loaded wheel thing that vastly superior and more comfortable then a scroll wheel. The only problem is that it's not a mouse! (You can't move the cursor). If apple ever does put a scrolling device on their mice, I hope they take a page out of the design from Contour.

Also, regarding the LASER confusion, don't be so hard on people -- it's a common misconception. If you're curious to know how Optical mice really work, check out:

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question631.htm

That article even has this quote, "Apple has transformed its optical mouse into a modern work of art."

[iAdam]

Originally posted by clonenode
Stop all your complaining.

The Apple one button mouse is the key to the simplicity of the Mac OS. No worries for kids or newbies over which button to use, and anything a pro-user wants is there with a Control click OR the purchase of a third-part mouse.

But maybe with this new "Mouse" and "Keyboard", "Pro" versions are on their way.

I know that a one button does keep it simple, and that not everyone with computers are super smart, but I hope anyone smart enough to use a computer can figure out the difference between the two buttons.

And with the "iPod style" scroller does that have a button in the center like the iPod or is it just one solid circle and not a "doughnut"? Do you think that if it does have a button that would supstitute the right button, or is there maybe even three buttons in the future?

[cgmpowers]

I was at the Apple Store this afternoon and the new eMac's are IN and have the new designed keyboard & mice.

I like the USB on the rear of the board but do not like that the keys are out in the open (easy access for dust and debris) but at least it makes cleaning them easier.

Christopher

[Eniregnat]

I like the one button mouse.
As for the keyboard revision, I believe it suits the education market better. It looks more robust, and I do know that he elevation adjustment arm tended to break when used by stupid people.


I have it, the final solution to all the mouse problems.
(Picture Steve Jobs delivering this new product.)
Introducing Apple's
ProKeyBouse
Combine the mouse and the keyboard into one useful product.
The keyboard could float around like the mouse, and it would have over 100 buttons to press. Keystrokes, shortcuts, and movement all combined. No more one button argument, and those 2, 3, 4 and 5 button mice would have to do a lot of evolving to equal the number of buttons found on the new AppleProKeyBouse.;)

[NW80pdx]

The Apple mouse has to be the most important part of the Mac. if you are a TRUE Apple Power User you wouldn't need a 2 button mouse or a scroll wheel, by attacthing those mice to a mac, you are slowly transforming the mac into a pc, what next, you need a 'Start Menu' too, because the dock is too simple? how hard is it to seriously point and click with a one button mouse? the only reasons you'd ever need a two button mouse is with working with Windows... yeah, I said it, Windows...

[Winged Youth]

Alright, I think this is pretty straightforward.

The eMac, true to its name, is STILL intended as a low-cost solution for educational customers. Yes, it is sold to consumers, but one way or the other it is DESIGNED for educational use: this means for young children (even in households) all the way up to rowdy high schoolers. And even University computing labs.

That said, put yourself in the position of administrating a public computing lab (read: high school, grade school, etc.) where hundreds of users a day will be handling your machines. Do you really want something fill of features and gizmos and moving parts? No. You want a large, difficult to move, heavy, bulky thing that can take some abuse. Enter the eMac. Large, bulky, very few fragile parts (no beautiful chrome accents to build up fingerprints or swiveling screens to get broken from abuse). The erfect machine for a high school lab.

That is EXACTLY why this keyboard is being sold with the eMac. The kickstand ALWAYS gets broken on lab iMacs...I've witnessed this firsthand a hundred times. Same thing with the little feet on third party keyboards. And rollerball mice lose their ball within days. Kids are rowdy, violent and like to mess things up. there's no way around it. Simple solution: make the keyboard a single, solid, reliable unit. Take off the fragile part of the mouse (the tension adjuster...which is really unnecessary in a public environment, anyway). Now you have peripherals which are just as robust as the computer itself.

I use public portals every day as a university student. The Dell keyboards in our labs are missing all of their feet, and most of the microsoft intellimouses have had those little side buttons pried out. And I do volunteer work at my old High school's computer labs, and I don't even want to get into the **** I deal with there...I wish every computer at my school and the high school had these keyboards, and being PCs, I wish they had a 2-button variant of these mice...like your basic logitech optical scrollwheel mouse. It's by noticing little things like this that make Apple hardware engineers the best out there. I applaud them...

But I do want one of those keyboards for myself.

[JBytes]

but I happen to love the Apple mouse. It's PERFECT for the lefthander, or ambidextrous user. No curve to worry about, and no ridiculous buttons to reconfigure for left hand use. If you can afford a Mac, you certainly can afford a third party mouse of your choice.

--JBytes

[jeffberg]

Originally posted by mangoman
Hate to pitchabitch about Apple, but what's up with this lame-o one button mouse? Looks pretty, goes directly in drawer to get replaced by my Logitech 2 button with the mighty mighty scrollwheel.

There have been previsous posts on this, but my personal opinion is...
All pro people hate these 1 button mouses. However, they make people that make programs on the mac think when they make a User Interface (UI). See, since the 1 button is default programmers have to work to make the least amount of contextual menus as possible. Because of this we get ingenius shortcuts vs a windows like right click here right click there interface. The best example is renaming. On the mac u press return or click on the name, in windows you right click and click rename. In windows, because a 2 button mouse is standard, all UI's are based on contextual menus, which just aren't intuitive. Basically the one button mouse is what makes the mac easy and the 2 button mouse is what make Windows hard.

[scem0]

I don't get it! Why won't apple put 2 ****ing buttons on their
mouse?!?! 90% of everyone wants it. Is it because they're
stubborn? Or is it some other reason?

[drewbert]

I'd be far happier with the one button mouse if everything done by control-click could also be done with click-hold, like it used to be in OS 9.

[scem0]

Originally posted by drewbert
I'd be far happier with the one button mouse if everything done by control-click could also be done with click-hold, like it used to be in OS 9.

but that wastes time, and it can be done with many things, like
the dock. It isn't very convenient. Apple can be very stupid. :( :rolleyes:

[iAdam]

If were debating this in such detail so much, imangene how much Apple debates things like this

[scem0]

and one more comment: Why would apple downgrade the mouse?

It offers no benifits (to my knowledge) over the last pro mouse,
and it lacks the click adjuster thingy. :(

[Winged Youth]

Originally posted by scem0
and one more comment: Why would apple downgrade the mouse?

It offers no benifits (to my knowledge) over the last pro mouse,
and it lacks the click adjuster thingy. :(

Like I said. It's not necessary in the environment the eMac is intended for, and can be broken (fairly) easily.

[scem0]

Originally posted by Winged Youth
Like I said. It's not necessary in the environment the eMac is intended for, and can be broken (fairly) easily.

so do you think apple will keep the pro mouse on the powermacs,
and maybe even add a scroll wheel when the 970 is released?
This sounds logical, and I like this idea.

[agp]

Surely they are eMac accessories that are more durable...less things for kids at school to pull apart!

[joemama]

if you are a TRUE Apple Power User you wouldn't need a 2 button mouse or a scroll wheel


...Amateurs.....

Anyone who is a "power" user is most likely a designer of some sort, and the scroll and two button mouse is a necessity.

We don't even care what mouse apple ships because it;s out the door and replaced with the intellimouse or something of that nature.

I'll guarantee you Apple's designers don't use their own mice.

[GPTurismo]

Originally posted by joemama
...Amateurs.....

Anyone who is a "power" user is most likely a designer of some sort, and the scroll and two button mouse is a necessity.

We don't even care what mouse apple ships because it;s out the door and replaced with the intellimouse or something of that nature.

I'll guarantee you Apple's designers don't use their own mice.

I love my mac, but the two button mouse is the way to go. Especially when working with a lot of documents, doing code, working in the Finder or working with graphics in general.

[Winged Youth]

Originally posted by joemama

Anyone who is a "power" user is most likely a designer of some sort, and the scroll and two button mouse is a necessity.


I'm an Art student, and I use Photoshop and Illustrator on a daily basis in my work (which determines both my grade and frequently my source of income, when I do freelance photography and graphic design). I'm a 'designer of some sort', and certainly a "power" user...and I rarely use the second mouse button.

I actually rarely TOUCH the mouse. Usually I've got one hand on my tablet's pen, and one hand on the keyboard. And since in those programs (along with Final Cut Pro, Premier, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Flash, etc. You've got one hand on the keyboard ANYWAY (Option-click, command-click, shift-click, ctrl-click...they all have different purposes) so pressing another button while you click is second nature. The second mouse button is completely unnessary.

Sorry, friend, but the ProMouse serves me just fine in all these "power" user-only programs. And as per Apple's own designers (assuming you mean hardware designers), I would assume they use AutoCAD, which also doesn't use the right-click feature very much.

Both my school's design lab and the studios where I work have G4 boxes with ProMice, and my school has special keyboards with colored and labeled keys for Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. The "power" user is more concerned with the keyboard than he is with his mouse. As long as the mouse is accurate, clean, and you can easly hold down the button while you drag, it's a good mouse. The ProMouse fits the bill quite nicely.

[Winged Youth]

Forgot to mention: same thing for the scroll feature...never had the need for a scroll wheel. Unless the scroll wheel works as a frame scrubber in video programs, I can't think of something that would use it. And even in that case, at least in my experiece, a jog-shuttle peripheral is usually used. At my school the Final Cut machines have Contour Design ShuttlePROs. For the little video work I've done, my griffin PowerMate works great. Seems like a scroll-wheel would be horribly innacurate and non-intuitive for this application. Most video users are used to a left-to-right scroll wheel, not the mouse-style wheel.

[evilsprung]

you've all got it wrong, apple released the one button mouse not for simplicity, but for image. That's what I think it has always been about. Even look at their machines. Apple is mostly image and making a one button mouse helps promote that uniqueness they strive for.

[scem0]

Originally posted by evilsprung
you've all got it wrong, apple released the one button mouse not for simplicity, but for image. That's what I think it has always been about. Even look at their machines. Apple is mostly image and making a one button mouse helps promote that uniqueness they strive for.

If this is the case, I don't see a bright future for apple. :( :o

[evilsprung]

well i didnt mean to down grade their products but i just meant if you were to say apple was good at anything then at the very least it would be about promoting image and uniqueness. I mean look at PCs. Most of the products are bland or, like now, try to bite off apple's design and appeal. I mean isnt that one of the primary reasons why people are able to distinguish macs from pcs?

[evilsprung]

well i didnt mean to down grade their products but i just meant if you were to say apple was good at anything then at the very least it would be about promoting image and uniqueness. I mean look at PCs. Most of the products are bland or, like now, try to bite off apple's design and appeal. I mean isnt that one of the primary reasons why people are able to distinguish macs from pcs?

[ennerseed]

last time I used Maya..

Is it absolutely necessary? Yes.
Are there ways around it? No.

[scem0]

Originally posted by evilsprung
well i didnt mean to down grade their products but i just meant if you were to say apple was good at anything then at the very least it would be about promoting image and uniqueness. I mean look at PCs. Most of the products are bland or, like now, try to bite off apple's design and appeal. I mean isnt that one of the primary reasons why people are able to distinguish macs from pcs?

I knew you didn't mean to downgrade apple, but I was just
saying that if apple concentrates too much on uniqueness and
design/aesthetics rather than appeal to the general population,
ease of use, and doingw what is best, then I don't see a good
future ahead of them. :(

Originally posted by mim
hey! there are twbo uttons on tis mousse! 2butts 2 butts yeah yeah yeah!

....

no, i'm drunk. just looks that way, all blurred. Continue 1vs2 button flaming. Thankyou.

BTW, I want a button for every finger, and one for my belly.

Bottoms up!
a.

lol, please refrain from PWI (Posting While Intoxicated :p), even
though that was pretty funny. :D

[voicegy]

Originally posted by Winged Youth
Alright, I think this is pretty straightforward.

The eMac, true to its name, is STILL intended as a low-cost solution for educational customers. Yes, it is sold to consumers, but one way or the other it is DESIGNED for educational use [...] It's by noticing little things like this that make Apple hardware engineers the best out there. I applaud them...

Speaking as the IT Liaison between school sites and the IT dept. for a large school district...

EXACTLY what Winged Youth said, every word of it. End of debate.:o

[scem0]

Maybe apple will ship the 'apple mouse' with all their computers,
and offer a 'pro mouse' for $xx.xx. Or ship it with the pro machines.

[mim]

Originally posted by scem0
Maybe apple will ship the 'apple mouse' with all their computers,
and offer a 'pro mouse' for $xx.xx. Or ship it with the pro machines.

"Or monkeys might fly out of my butt!"

Robot monkeys, that is! Arn, help us! Can you please ban anymore mouse talk for the next 2 weeks! This is nuts! Five pages of freaking talk about a mouse! I'm going to go and scroll some scroll wheels before I go insane! Good-bye!

(No offence scem0)

a.

[eyelikeart]

ok guys...let's get this thing back on track here...I won't shut down a thread like this because a few of u cannot keep on topic... :rolleyes:

[rdas7]

I just love the new mouse! I can't wait to get one!! Trust Apple to innovate!

[Sol]

Personally I do not believe in the theory that these revisions are cheaper to manufacture. Sure the mouse is missing the wheel around the laser but my guess is that most people were not even aware of its function (I for one, at least until I read this thread). As for the keyboard, the same two USB ports are still there so chances are that the same cost is involved in the manufacture of these devices.

If it was up to me I would include even more USB ports on the keyboard. It would also be cool if backlighting was introduced on desktop keyboards.

[gregnacu]

The emac is designed for Schools. Everyone b!tched that apples were not competitively priced for schools... Well, now they can be.

Also, the new keyboard and mouse have fewer movable parts. This means less chance that students can break them. And they are just easier to build.

For the target market of the eMac, this is all around good.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Sol
Personally I do not believe in the theory that these revisions are cheaper to manufacture. Sure the mouse is missing the wheel around the laser but my guess is that most people were not even aware of its function (I for one, at least until I read this thread).What does the fact the people didn't know about the click sensitivity ring have to do with the price of tea in China? Less moving parts = less to put together = cheaper to manufacture.
Originally posted by Sol
As for the keyboard, the same two USB ports are still there so chances are that the same cost is involved in the manufacture of these devices.See above.
Originally posted by Sol
If it was up to me I would include even more USB ports on the keyboard. It would also be cool if backlighting was introduced on desktop keyboards. These are good ideas, but remember that this would be a non-powered USB hub, and sucking power for the backlight might leave too little for anything you would plug into it.

[rdas7]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
These are good ideas, but remember that this would be a non-powered USB hub, and sucking power for the backlight might leave too little for anything you would plug into it.

Good point. Although backlit keyboard *would* be cool! I suppose linking it via Firewire just for this might be a little x-treme? ;)

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by rdas7
Good point. Although backlit keyboard *would* be cool! I suppose linking it via Firewire just for this might be a little x-treme? ;) Hehe - yeah, but if they just left the two USB out ports on it, I'd bet they'd be okay - probably wouldn't use much more than an optical mouse. (maybe less if some kind of "Indiglo" illumination is used)

They could add more ports to the Cinema display's though, those are (or could be) powered by the ADC cable.

[JoeG4]

Ya know.. I haven't posted here in ages... looong ages..

My 2 cents:

I have used 2 button mice as long as I've used computers, I even bought one for my g4, but even playing FPS games and using photoshop like a maniac... I keep finding myself going back to the pro mouse.

Why? It's small, simple, and does what it's needed for.. click here click there.

I dun mind scrollwheels, but don't really need one. There's devices like the powermate which are waaay cooler for this purpose and.. using the pro mouse you have a reason to buy one :EG:

I even use a pro mouse on my pc sitting here on my table.. though I admit... it's a lot harder to work without it there.

Why do I not care? The shortcuts I use the most are on my keyboard!

[eric_n_dfw]

The first coputer I owned that had a mouse was an Amiga. (Workbench 1.x days FWIW) Had 2 buttons - the right button caused the menu bar to appear (at the top of the screen). From there I moved to Win 3.1 at work (ack!). 2nd button? Win 3.x seemed to completely ignore the 2nd button.

FFwd to my first Mac - a B&W G3, I think I used the puck mouse once and then I moved two a 3rd party, 2 button mouse.

Like most of us, I think Apple should at least offer a 2 or 3 button mouse but they're so cheap that having to buy one is just not an issue for 99.99% of us. I'd bet you could haggle a free one out of most mail order shops or even CompUSA or Frys when you plop down the $$$$ for a PowerMac.

[blufire]

The only change in the mouse, far as I can see is there is no longer the click firmness adjustment dial. (And the name is simply "Mouse," instead of "Pro Mouse.") Apple's "Apple Keyboard" and "Apple Mouse" are just that -- NON-"pro" versions. The mouse is the same mouse but not adjustable (I don't know how much money they could save on that though.. not like a little plastic wheel would cost a lot, but I'm sure it adds up) and the unadjustable keyboard is the "un-pro" keyboard. Which is pretty much fitting for the eMac, being a machine geared towards education and simplicity.

btw, it's not a laser on the bottom of optical mice. It's only a red LED which illuminates the surface so that the camera can take pictures and make sense of it. That said, they focus the LED for optimal, even light dispersal on the mousing surface, so it can still make your eyes hurt after extended periods of optical-mouse wars ;) (but it can't cause any harm)

[eric_n_dfw]

Just in case everyone hasn't gotten the message - it's not a laser. :D :D :D :rolleyes:


(And it's not part of the "Alan Parson's Project" either!)
http://209.195.146.200/images/evilminime.gif

[Sol]

Originally posted by blufire
btw, it's not a laser on the bottom of optical mice.

In fact it is a phaser and the dial on the bottom could be set to 'Stun' or 'Kill'. I guess Apple saves a lot more money by making Kill-only units. What fool would have their phaser set to stun in the first place?

[druggedonions]

is it me?:confused: or does the new mouse look a bit wider?

maybe this means that apple are making room for a flat scroll wheel (like the ipod) and that'll be their pro-mouse?

if it were i'd definately get one.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Originally posted by pfranzen
I find it really hard to believe that people defend the one button mouse. I mean the argument that 'there are ways areound it' is just weak. Another way around it is to buy a windows computer...

It's not so much that there are ways around it or anything of that ilk, but if you "computer literate" types like myself have ever taken a basic computers class, surrounding around "Macs" which I had the pleasure to (it was either take it for the easy grade, or pay $25 for a test, only to have to supplant the course with credit hour work at an additional cost... you tell me which is better? Easy A all the way) take, and actually help teach (yes, it was that low a level course I was on a par or more knowledgeable than the instructor) that I'm going to tell you a little secret.

For non literate types ::gasping::






Are you ready for this?!?






1-button mice are hard to use. :confused:




HOLY SHNIKEYS!! ::gasping::


The more buttons you add, the more complexity. Watching a non-computer literate person do that which you or I think is "mundane" is like watching a neanderthal figure out what to do with a pencil. I had a guy next to me that I had to actually explain the mouse, the desktop metaphor, the process of clicking on icons, the whole 10-yards.

So in a nutshell, while it might pain some of you to use a single button mouse and control-click, and for those that evolve... having a multibutton option (much like my Kensington Orbit trackball) is a Godsend. For novice users that use eMacs, especially with young kids in education where the machine is most prominent, or with consumers that struggle with the complexity of a 2-button mouse or aren't used to it or don't want the added button... having the single button mouse is a better option.

I just upgraded my father to a 4-button Kensington optical mouse. It's a great mouse, but I had to alter the buttons to simulate his usage of the old ADB beige single button mouse. So yes... right and left click do the same thing, the scroll wheel works like any scroll wheel, and the two outer blue buttons work as right-click. He still struggles with the right-click deal and "NEVER" has had much need to use it, but it just makes the point clearer. An "OPTION" is good for all (low-cost upgrade), but Apple doing away with the single button mouse is a bad idea IMHO for those that think they should dump it for the reasons mentioned above.

I personally will upgrade to a 2-button mouse with scroll wheel. I prefer it and am adept enough to use it, plus I like the right-click contextual menu functionality, as well as the scrollwheel scrolling in applications and web-browsing.

So I'm for Apple to continue on with 1-button mice, because I understand "WHY" they are good.

Yet I'm also for Apple to lose the ridiculous "PRO" nomenclature for a simple one-button mouse and basic keyboard in favor of a two-button mouse with some sort of scroll apparatus (maybe something like Kensington's or a simple wheel), as well as a keyboard with media key functionality (and perhaps a split layout, with a curvature like the Kinesis keyboard, with a usable number pad), and perhaps an iPod-like scroll wheel (could place it between the banks of keys on a split keyboard, with the same media keys as the new iPod; without the illumination; although illuminated keys would be cool too). It might add some heft... but let the end-user choose the Apple Keyboard or Apple Media Keyboard, as well as the Apple Mouse or Apple Pro Mouse. Let them mix and match based on their needs, and have them available to all models on a BTO plan.

I'd even like a wireless RF or Bluetooth keyboard version... although I'd probably take a wired mouse unless they have a recharging station with theirs. Having to have a pesky mouse that goes through AA batteries like candy is not my idea of evolution in the proper sense. LoL Wireless keyboard (without illumination of course) would be practical... wireless mouse that's optical (LED constantly lit) along with transmitting some signal to a receiver is bound to chew some juice. Thanks, but no thanks without a recharging base station (which the iPod now has... so it's not out of the ordinary).

[bigjohn]

I was just watching the Midnight-1:00am episode of this season of "24" (2nd) from April 1st. I spotted the new Apple keyboard at one of the terminals in CTU-LA. It was at that girl Kerri's cubicle.

Late info, but at least now it's in the open.

[LeafyGreens]

Originally posted by bidge
I have a really high quality eps shot of the keyboard from front on,

instead of having gaps in between the Function keys the escape key is longer and the first row goes up to F13, the R 13 key being the other long one.

Then the other three keys goes up to F16


As noted here earlier, and perhaps overlooked by everyone arguing over mouse buttons, is the fact that the new Apple Keyboard has an F16 key. This is a first for Apple, and even unmatched by the now lesser-equipped Apple Pro Keyboard.

Somebody posted some decent photos here: http://homepage.mac.com/rogiermulder/PhotoAlbum11.html