8-Core Mac Pro In January? Displays Too?

[kromekat]

2.5 times is a LOT. Is that for a specific 3D application and if so which one? My own tests against what I use put the Quad Mac Pro only slightly faster than my Quad G5 - certainly nothing close to 2.5 times faster, more like 1.3 times faster. Am I overlooking something?

http://www.3dfluff.com/mash/cinebench/top.php

Cinema 4D - my current CB score is around 640 on my dual G5 2.5 - a MacPro 3Ghz gives a score of around 1612, hence 2.5x faster. :)

The Quad G5 roughly doubled my CB score to around 1200 from what I remember, which in itself made it viable as an upgrade machine, but I decided to wait for the next gen - now they are here, and new ones are iminent, I am best to wait a little longer I think.

[Multimedia]

Well I definitely could use the 8 Cores right now for 3D rendering - the current crop of Quad 3Ghz run approx 2.5 times faster than my Dual 2.5 G5, but it doesn't make sense to buy until the range is updated, which according to a reliable source, could be as early as Feb 20th - so fingers crossed that IS the case! ;)My bad for mis-reading Dual 2.5 as Quad 2.5. Sorry folks. :o

Without revealing your source, would you mind telling us a little more about why the 8 core may be announced February 20th? :)

[kromekat]

My bad for mis-reading Dual 2.5 as Quad 2.5. Sorry folks. :o

Without revealing your source, would you mind telling us a little more about why the 8 core may be announced February 20th? :)

The person in question is a well respected, and well connected Mac seller - and this is simply based on his 'knowledge' - I guess he could be wrong of course, but it's as good a day as any - plus it is in fact a Tuesday! (I checked my Calendar), and I think since it looks like Leopard and a few other significant updates are expected in March/April, it would make sense to launch updated Macs earlier, so they can give all the hype to the new OS etc!?

:)

[patrick0brien]

-FYI

Linkypoo to Thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=272888)

[Multimedia]

That February 20 Event thread is not necessarily for an 8 core Mac Pro Event. So I think we should stick with this one until a new purely 8 core MP thread is started on page one. :)

[AppliedVisual]

But I'm sorry to report, after receiving Toast 8 UB yesterday, that it has not been modified-improved to use more than about 2 cores on the Quad G5 - evidence developers don't want to bother going back to make significant changes to their PPC code now that Intel Macs are shipping. :(

I think we can plan on that from here on out... PPC Macs have been obsoleted.

Interesting to note that while Toast 8 supports Blu-ray Disc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc) it DOES NOT support HD DVD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD). Looks like someone at Sonic decided HD-DVD is going to lose the format wars so why bother?

Sonic is backing Blu-Ray, not HD-DVD, they have since the beginning... If you know your HD-DVD disc spec layout and your way around XML though, you don't need special software to make HD-DVD titles. You can export HD-DVD compliant MPEG2, VC1 and H264 right out of FCP and Compressor right now, build your menus in Photoshop, Motion, etc.. Assemble them with XML. Not to drag the discussion OT, but this is why HD-DVD is catching on in the adult film industry. It's cheap and easy to produce HD-DVD discs.. Not only that, but standard DVD media can serve up HD content on all HD-DVD players as long as the file is encoded to remain within the allotted bitrate. I can shoot 1080p24 with a sub $10K camera setup like the HVX200 and deliver 20 minutes of 1080p video on a standard DVD that plays at 1080p in all HD-DVD players (well, 1080i in currently shipping models). No need for an HD-DVD writer, no need for new, special software... Until HD-DVD writers hit main channels, people will still have to take longer features to the replication houses on tape or hard drive (maybe on BluRay? - haha)...

[AppliedVisual]

The person in question is a well respected, and well connected Mac seller - and this is simply based on his 'knowledge' - I guess he could be wrong of course, but it's as good a day as any - plus it is in fact a Tuesday! (I checked my Calendar), and I think since it looks like Leopard and a few other significant updates are expected in March/April, it would make sense to launch updated Macs earlier, so they can give all the hype to the new OS etc!?

8 Core MacPro on 2/20??? Hmmm... could happen. Wouldn't surprise me either way. Actually, yes it would surprise me if they ship them before mid April. Why? At this point, Apple may as well wait for Stoakley. I'll wait before I buy... I can hold off a bit longer and I don't truly need the 8-core systems until my RED ONE camera ships. I can still get cheaper gains on my 3D rendering by adding more low-cost render nodes.

[Multimedia]

8 Core MacPro on 2/20??? Hmmm... could happen. Wouldn't surprise me either way. Actually, yes it would surprise me if they ship them before mid April. Why? At this point, Apple may as well wait for Stoakley. I'll wait before I buy... I can hold off a bit longer and I don't truly need the 8-core systems until my RED ONE camera ships. I can still get cheaper gains on my 3D rendering by adding more low-cost render nodes.Long time no read. Welcome back AV. I, like you, will wait for Stoakley-Seaburg (SS) as well. I agree February 20 shipping is highly unlikely and peg NAB April 16 as the real reveal date. Anytime sooner would be a most pleasant surprise unless they try to ship it without SS to begin with.

You got early on the RED ONE waiting list? I heard they are sold out for 2007.

What will RED ONE do for you that other HD options won't and how? How much did it really cost you for that camera including a set of lenses? Less than $20K? :eek:

[tuartboy]

I can hold off a bit longer and I don't truly need the 8-core systems until my RED ONE camera ships.

All I can say is:

I burn, I pine, I perish.

and...

Congratulations on the (soon to be) camera. Let us all know how that thing performs and, by all means, share some samples!

[Rocketman]

Thanks for finally posting. Sometimes it feels like there are only a half dozen of us who know we need 8 cores. So every new voice helps the morale.



I am in strong agreement with you MM that 8 cores will be needed by a surprisingly large cross-section of users. They simply do not post to rumor sites.

I do believe general consumers will consider 4 cores minimum a year from now and pros will consider 8 cores "baseline".

But for today the (small but aware) entire world is waiting for APPLE to deliver 8 cores since the Win-tel world is far from adopting multi-core as a general consumer need. Vista is unlikely to change that trend either.

Rocketman

[Rocketman]

Long time no read. Welcome back AV.

You got early on the RED ONE waiting list? I heard they are sold out for 2007.

What will RED ONE do for you that other options won't? How much did it really cost you for that camera including a set of lenses? Less than $20K? :eek:

The camera body is $18k. The cheapest lens is $5k more, but is compatible with existing lenses.

If the rumors are true of the "next RAID" having 6 link FC and the RED having dual link FC, it will be possible in principal to have a 2 (+) camera shoot! I wonder if the camera can act as the computer directly to the RAID?

Rocketman

[AppliedVisual]

You got early on the RED ONE waiting list? I heard they are sold out for 2007.

What will RED ONE do for you that other HD options won't and how? How much did it really cost you for that camera including a set of lenses? Less than $20K? :eek:


I'm not real early on the RED list, but I still think I should have the camera this year. As of right now, there is no hard data on how many cameras will be produced and shipped this year. They will be taking more reservations at NAB (presumably), but other than that it's pretty much closed off until the camera ships in quantity. I'm working with a few other RED reservation holders in my area on some things right now.

So far, we know the camera body is $17.5K, RED DRIVE or the hard-drive based storage magazines for it are $1K (or less) for 320GB (think about 200 minutes of 4K RAW @ 24p). It's an s35mm sensor as this is a digital cinema camera. Uses standard PL mount lenses and will also have lens mounts (not just adapters, but full mounts to replace the PL mount) available for Nikon and B4 when the camera ships. There is a FLASH module for recording too, but details aren't available yet - we're supposed to get all the final accessory details and pricing in March. The 18-85mm RED zoom lens is $9995. Yes, seems expensive, but this is the lens that woudl be used with such a camera 99% of the time for most any type of work. Comparable lenses from Zeiss or Cooke run upwards of $60K so this lens, like the camera, is a bargain. The only two other cameras out there shooting video close in spec to RED is the Panavision Genesis and the ARRI D20. The D20 isn't even full 4K res... RED will shoot 2K up to 120fps, the others don't. Both of those digital cinema cameras are over 10X the price of RED -- as in the body alone is over $175K.

We have been using the HVX200 cameras here and renting larger cameras (Varicam, F900 / CineAlta) when needed. The HVX200s pretty much sit on the shelf these days as they don't have the lens options or the picture quality needed for true HD delivery. So we need to buy new cameras... Varicam uses B4 HD broadcast lenses or s16 lenses with an adapter and only shoots 720p to encode at 960x720 4:2:2 DVCPROHD and used bodies with an 8x Fujinon HD lens run about $37K. CineAlta F950U is about $120K for the body alone, used F900 bodies can be had for about $60K if you look hard enough.

Anyway, like I said, we need new cameras and our budget puts us in the used Varicam/CineAlta range. But RED offers so much more and fits in the low end of that price bracked... More in line with Sony F350 XDCAM units, which just shoot XDCAM MPEG2 <cough, higher bitrage HDV> to XD media. RED offers shooting up to uncompressed 4:4:4 4K s35mm from 1 to 60fps rampable or up to 2K/s16 4:4:4 from 1 to 120fps. Shooting 4K RAW still 4:4:4 is very close to uncompressed in quality, no macroblocking of any type. The resolution is essentially equal to that of 35mm film or quad-HD 4K on RED is 4096x2304.. In uncompressed s35mm mode you get full 2540p up to 60fps!

I've been expanding my company and offerings over the past year or so and we're branching more into film and fx work, so the camera is a perfect fit. And never again will I have to apologize for the quality of my video on a commercial shoot.

Our RED budget is still a floating target, but we're looking at about $47K. Which includes the RED body, 18-85mm zoom lens, 300mm prime lens, Nikon mount (for our Nikkor lens collection), 2 x RED DRIVEs, two new 8-core Mac Pro systems, batteries, cables, etc.. We will also have to beef up the SAN and add more RAID nodes and backup infrastructure. Current DVCPROHD / HDCAM workflows don't demand as much drive space as 2K/4K RAW. And we don't know pricing yet on other accessories like EVF, RED RAIL, RED CAGE, or the FLASH memory specifics. But at this point, it's a reservation # and refundable deposit, not an actual camera purchase.

One of the local RED reservation holders I'm working with is stepping up from a JVC HD10 with Letus35a adapter and a bunch of Nikon lenses. He's buying the RED One, the Nikon mount and a RED DRIVE for starters and that fits just about $21K after tax. IMO, if you need a cinema style camera that will run circles around anything else in just about any price range, this is it. ...It's not a camera for home movies, soccer-dads, or those doing ENG run-n-gun type work. It's a digital cinema camera.

[AppliedVisual]

The camera body is $18k. The cheapest lens is $5k more, but is compatible with existing lenses.

Economics of scale... You don't use a Mac mini for compositing film projects in Shake. You don't shoot a TV commercial with a $125K budget with a Sony HandyCam. RED is insanely cheap for what it does. It's closest competitor is the Panavision Genesis at over 10X the price. RED's cheapest lens, the 300mm prime tele is $4,995. The 300mm prime from Cooke is $14K go figure that one out.

If the rumors are true of the "next RAID" having 6 link FC and the RED having dual link FC, it will be possible in principal to have a 2 (+) camera shoot! I wonder if the camera can act as the computer directly to the RAID?

Apple's next RAID should only have dual FC, but they need to upgrade the FC connectors from 2Gbps to 4Gbps and get caught up with the rest of the industry. 10G fiber and copper solutions are already out too... They better have a CAT6-E compliant 10GoC connector on the back of the next XServe RAID or I'll buy something else. The recent photos / concept that was leaked has to be a hoax or a complete joke. No way would Apple release a revamped XServe RAID and not include faster connections. SATA connectors on the drive sleds are a given... They would have to update current XsR's to eSATA backplanes and sleds no matter what since pATA drives will be all but extinct by the end of this year.

As for RED it has a proprietary RAW data port (essentially eSATA w/power and a few other goodies) for recording direct to RED DRIVE. There is a modular output port on the camera as well which can be swapped to hold the FLASH module, an "optical port" or other future connectivity option. The "optical port" is still in development and may turn out to not be optical, but they're planning on it being 10Gbps.... I'm expecting it to be 10GoC ethernet... Makes sense and would support economical CAT6-E cable up to 500ft. without switches or repeaters. Other than RED DRIVE or RED FLASH, the camera is only confirmed to record direct to the also in development RED RAID. But no one knows exactly what RED RAID is... If it's software, hardware and software or a dedicated RAID system. Recording to RED DRIVE is limited to 4K up to 30fps and 2K up to 60fps. RED FLASH at this time has the same limits, but since the module is interchangeable, eventually we can have record devices that handle the full 4K @ 60fps or 2K @ 120fps right there on-camera as storage capacities and speeds increase.

We're shooting a grindhouse trailer this weekend... Using the HVX200 with M2 35mm adapter and Nikkor lenses. Lots of green screen work too... Sure wish RED was already here....

[Multimedia]

So far, we know the camera body is $17.5K, RED DRIVE or the hard-drive based storage magazines for it are $1K (or less) for 320GB (think about 200 minutes of 4K RAW @ 24p).

It's not a camera for home movies, soccer-dads, or those doing ENG run-n-gun type work. It's a digital cinema camera.Thank you for writing so much in depth about the RED ONE AV. $1k (or less) for a 320GB 200 minute 4k RAW @ 24p mobile HD sounds like a bargain as well. So I'm interested to know if this solution could be mixed with the consumer cameras with HDMI outputs - such as the Sony HC-3 - and the $249 Blackmagic Design Intensity PCIe HDMI i/o card (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/) on our 8 core Mac Pros - particularly the codec used to reduce your "4k RAW" stream down to little more than 100GB an hour. That seems very efficient to me for native HD footage. No?

Anyway, I'm looking at HDTV production from the budget end of the spectrum and wonder if you have any thoughts about how this Blackmagic Design card and their upcoming On-Air 3.0 three camera live switching software package (included after NAB) might have a place as well in our 8 core Mac Pros.

[zblaxberg]

well there could be a possible event on february 20th so maybe they will release it then, hopefully with a new lineup of macbook pros

[AppliedVisual]

Thank you for writing so much in depth about the RED ONE AV. $1k (or less) for a 320GB 200 minute 4k RAW @ 24p mobile HD sounds like a bargain as well. So I'm interested to know if this solution could be mixed with the consumer cameras with HDMI outputs - such as the Sony HC-3 - and the $249 Blackmagic Design Intensity PCIe HDMI i/o card (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/) on our 8 core Mac Pros - particularly the codec used to reduce your "4k RAW" stream down to little more than 100GB an hour. That seems very efficient to me for native HD footage. No?

4K RAW within the REDCODE RAW codec is roughly 27MB/s. The codec is proprietary and ship with the RED One camera and companion software REDCINE. REDCINE is a bridge between REDCODE RAW (which is an acquisition format, not an editing format) and other formats, one of which is REDCODE RGB. As of right now, we don't know what the data rates are for REDCODE RGB, but we've been assured it won't be the full 323MB/s for uncompressed 4K. :)

As for the BlackMagic / Decklink cards... I prefer the AJA cards. A bit more expensive, but much nicer output. However, since I don't intend to capture direct from our RED One via SDI (which the SDI can only handle 2K 2048x1080 anyway). But rather record 4K RAW to the RED DRIVE and then export to the system. We won't be exporting to an HD deck via SDI either... Everything is going tapeless in a hurry and at this point, to invest in expensive pro format decks for HDCAM, DVCPROHD, etc.. would be foolish. Many broadcasters are now starting to take submissions on hard drive or via FTP/direct upload. More options are sure to present themselves as the whole HD-DVD and BluRay format "war" get sorted a bit better. To handle 4K over SDI at 4:4:4, it requires a quad-link arrangement -- like Sony has been using for their 4K digital projector system.

The RED One camera can be used as an HD Camera, but more directly it's still a digital cinema camera. It's intended to compete with (and hopefully even replace in many situations) traditional 35mm cinema systems. The intermediary software, REDCINE allows for taking the acquisition format of REDCODE RAW (and the camera can shoot in various formats to match lens options and lower HD formats) and transcode it to other formats and scale with oversampling to the desired format resolution. So you can shoot everything in 4K RAW with direct transition to HDCAM SR 1080p if you want.

Anyway, I'm looking at HDTV production from the budget end of the spectrum and wonder if you have any thoughts about how this Blackmagic Design card and their upcoming On-Air 3.0 three camera live switching software package (included after NAB) might have a place as well in our 8 core Mac Pros.

I haven't really looked at the Blackmagic stuff in a while. I have the AJA KONA 3 in a G5 Quad, but it sits unused except for the rare occasion we rent a camera that warrants direct connect via SDI. Once we have our RED, this will probably never happen again...

FWIW, the RED Team prefers AJA cards too... They've been using AJA for direct output of RED footage over SDI in 2K or 1080p format to demonstration monitors / projectors.

For HD production on a budget, I suppose it all depends what you're trying to produce. If you need a camera system, RED is a great potential choice even if you're just delivery 1080i as 4K will future-proof your work and the cost isn't really any higher than most good broadcast 1080 cameras, but your production approach may not work well with a cinema-style camera. In many situations, broadcast oriented cameras may still be the best way to go, even though they offer lower resolution and highly compressed footage by comparison. As for matching with cameras like the HC3, I don't know... I suppose you could really crap-out your RED footage to make it look comparable to the HC3. ..I have an HC3, BTW, for home movies and the like. I hate that camera... Terribly uncomfortable to hold and use (even for a palm-corder style). Picture is not bad for a small CMOS sensor (a bit noisy at times) and it's only HDV, but the ergonomics of the thing are just dreadful.

[Rocketman]

Apple's next RAID should only have dual FC, but they need to upgrade the FC connectors from 2Gbps to 4Gbps and get caught up with the rest of the industry. 10G fiber and copper solutions are already out too... They better have a CAT6-E compliant 10GoC connector on the back of the next XServe RAID or I'll buy something else.

As for RED it has a proprietary RAW data port (essentially eSATA w/power and a few other goodies) for recording direct to RED DRIVE.
We're shooting a grindhouse trailer this weekend... Using the HVX200 with M2 35mm adapter and Nikkor lenses. Lots of green screen work too... Sure wish RED was already here....

I really appreciated your post with your RED purchase and interface details. Your comment that the RED drive would record 200 minutes was a revelation to me and very exciting. That means my application (industrial testing) can be done with just the camera, the drive, ambient light, a lens adapter (we have a partner with lenses).

The really exciting thing about that is the budget is so small that way we can totally afford two cameras!

We typically have event times of under 2 minutes but we need maximal resolution and frame rates.

I was hoping for 4K at 120fps as an option for short durations, but I suppose I cannot have everything.

Thanks again for the valuable post.

Rocketman

[AppliedVisual]

well there could be a possible event on february 20th so maybe they will release it then, hopefully with a new lineup of macbook pros

Macbook Pro was updated in October... I doubt we'll see a new update this soon. Besides, there's no reason to update the MBP now since the next Intel mobile chipset and updated CPUs hae not arrived yet. All Apple can do with the MBP at this point is update the form factor (unlikely, can't make it smaller due to ventilation issues), update the LCD panel - possible, but I bet they wait until the next revision...

I'm guessing we'll see new MBPs at NAB or shortly after... By then we should have the i965MP chipset, updated Core 2 Duo CPUs and potentially a better GPU along with LED backlit screens and hopefully higher resolution options and maybe options for a BluRay drive. With the updated chipset (should be shipping to OEMs by end of March), we gain the ability to install *AND USE* more than 3GB of RAM.

[mwswami]

Details of Penryn and first Intel 45nm Quad core (http://www.dailytech.com/Life+With+Penryn/article5869.htm) processor have started to appear. Its going to be a multi-die packaging similar to Kentsfield/Clovertown. The cache size will be increased to 2x6MB.

"Intel claims the upcoming Penryn will fit 410 million transistors for the dual-core model, and 820 million transistors for the quad-core variants -- dual-core Conroe utilizes just 298 million transistors. Intel's 45nm SRAM shuttle chip announced last year had a little over 1 billion transistors and fit on a 119mm^2 package. However, the initial Penryn quad-core processors will use a multi-die packaging, so it's realistic to expect only 410 million transistors per die at launch."

Intel is using high-k dielectrics and metal gate transistors for the 45nm process which should further increase the speeds offered and decrease the TDP. How about a 3.5GHz 100W quad core CPU? :D

Penryn will also includes new SSE4 instructions that give double digit performance gains for Multimedia applications.

Penryn based quad core is suppose to be released in the 2nd half of 2007. I assume it will be timed around AMD's release of Barcelona - maybe July?

So are we all now going to extend our wait for a better quad core along with the Stoakley/Seaburg chipset? ;) If we wait till the end of 2007/early 2008 then we can even get a native quad core (single piece of silicon) with Nehalem, Intel's next generation micro-architecture. Maybe even with an integrated memory controller and CSI. ;)

Here is the NEED vs WANT decision again.:rolleyes:


Edit: See Intel's press release here (http://www.intel.com/technology/silicon/45nm_technology.htm?iid=newstab+45nm).

[Multimedia]

Details of Penryn and first Intel 45nm Quad core (http://www.dailytech.com/Life+With+Penryn/article5869.htm) processor have started to appear. Its going to be a multi-die packaging similar to Kentsfield/Clovertown. The cache size will be increased to 2x6MB.

"Intel claims the upcoming Penryn will fit 410 million transistors for the dual-core model, and 820 million transistors for the quad-core variants -- dual-core Conroe utilizes just 298 million transistors. Intel's 45nm SRAM shuttle chip announced last year had a little over 1 billion transistors and fit on a 119mm^2 package. However, the initial Penryn quad-core processors will use a multi-die packaging, so it's realistic to expect only 410 million transistors per die at launch."

Intel is using high-k dielectrics and metal gate transistors for the 45nm process which should further increase the speeds offered and decrease the TDP. How about a 3.5GHz 100W quad core CPU? :D

Penryn will also includes new SSE4 instructions that give double digit performance gains for Multimedia applications.

Penryn based quad core is suppose to be released in the 2nd half of 2007. I assume it will be timed around AMD's release of Barcelona - maybe July?

So are we all now going to extend our wait for a better quad core along with the Stoakley/Seaburg chipset? ;) If we wait till the end of 2007/early 2008 then we can even get a native quad core (single piece of silicon) with Nehalem, Intel's next generation micro-architecture. Maybe even with an integrated memory controller and CSI. ;)

Here is the NEED vs WANT decision again.:rolleyes:

Edit: See Intel's press release here (http://www.intel.com/technology/silicon/45nm_technology.htm?iid=newstab+45nm).Thank you for that tech roadmap update. I know what you mean. But I for one cannot wait beyond when the first 8 core ships to buy one. I look forward to what comes out at year-end as well. But I am always bumping up against the problem of not enough cores. So I'll settle for the 2.66GHz Dual Clovertown as soon as it ships with Stoakley-Seaburg for the time being and embrace even faster-cooler when it's ready later.

[AppliedVisual]

So are we all now going to extend our wait for a better quad core along with the Stoakley/Seaburg chipset? ;) If we wait till the end of 2007/early 2008 then we can even get a native quad core (single piece of silicon) with Nehalem, Intel's next generation micro-architecture. Maybe even with an integrated memory controller and CSI. ;)

That's what I would like to wait for... :D Although, NEED is going to push me to buy before then I'm sure. :(

Knowning my luck, I'll have to buy in October and the unified Nehalem CPUs will ship at the end of November.... I just know it.

[downset]

i'm having a real hard time not ordering a mac pro right now, but am kind of forcing myself to wait until feb20

i would love an 8-core for the same price or a 4-core model that gets cheaper

i do believe 8 cores will make this investment way more future proof as more and more applications will support more threads

i hope that the 8 core can replace three current machines: - a g5 imac 1,8ghz, a PentiumIV with win XP (mainly used for ripping burning cd/dvd) and my linux server/router

i was hoping to set up 1 x 500gb for os x, 1 x 500gb for win XP and 2 x 500gb as shared drives over the gigabit network to my family other macs and PC to store all movies/mp3/documents

anyone know if i can use my pioneer 111 DL burner and my samsung SH-d162c DVD-rom in the mac pro? both in XP and OS X?

how much of an impact on the system would using the mac pro as a router to the other macs and PC make? or the filesharing? lets say 3 other computers are surfing and using itunes/documents?

well here is hoping i can keep waiting, its getting harder every day :)

[kromekat]

well here is hoping i can keep waiting, its getting harder every day :)

I know exactly what you mean - I have the funds for a MacPro now, and it [quad Xeon 3Ghz] is still a significant step up from the Dual G5 2.5, but if a higher spec quad, or an octo is only just weeks away, I have to resist, since the extra rendering speed is always needed! :D

Adam

[Stuka]

Same deal here. I am very tempted to buy a MacPro today, I just need to hold myself back until the next rev comes out. And hopefully I will be able to :)

[Rocketman]

If you are a MacPro waiter, the day CS3 is released should be your final decider, as Apple itself has pointed to that event.

Rocketman

[downset]

what month would cs3 come out?

[Multimedia]

what month would cs3 come out?We don't know that yet. NAB is April 16th one month into Spring. CS3 is promised for Spring as is Leopard. So the window could extend as far as the WWDC June 11 SteveNote. But I like to imagine April 16th will be the date. I'm not predicting anything. Last time I said I hope the January rumor is true, I was taken as one who believed it - which I did not. There are a few on this list who like to blame me for predicting wrong dates so I ain't playing the when game any more AT ALL. :eek:

Sooner would be a big but pleasant surprise to me. I am way past writing like I have a clue when which I do not. :)

[PmattF]

i'm having a real hard time not ordering a mac pro right now, but am kind of forcing myself to wait until feb20

I ordered mine right after MacWorld, received it on Friday -- it is amazing. But I am using it for digital photography/Photoshop, not video, so I probably would not have opted for an 8 core even if they were available.

FYI, using the RetouchArtists Photoshop Speed Test (http://www.retouchartists.com/pages/speedtest.html) my new Mac Pro 2.66 with 4 gigs of RAM and a RAID 0 scratch/data disk is 9 times faster than my Pentium4 2.8ghz PC with 1.5 gigs of ram (~30 seconds on this benchmark as opposed to 4:30).

I will be a little annoyed if a revised quad core comes out Feb 20, though I am really not sure what they might do to revise it at this point, othe than perhaps a price drop.

[Multimedia]

I ordered mine right after MacWorld, received it on Friday -- it is amazing. But I am using it for digital photography/Photoshop, not video, so I probably would not have opted for an 8 core even if they were available.

FYI, using the RetouchArtists Photoshop Speed Test (http://www.retouchartists.com/pages/speedtest.html) my new Mac Pro 2.66 with 4 gigs of RAM and a RAID 0 scratch/data disk is 9 times faster than my Pentium4 2.8ghz PC with 1.5 gigs of ram (~30 seconds on this benchmark as opposed to 4:30).

I will be a little annoyed if a revised quad core comes out Feb 20, though I am really not sure what they might do to revise it at this point, othe than perhaps a price drop.:eek: Wow! :)Sorry, I should have mentioned that is running CS3 beta on both platforms, so it is universal binary.

Also, my understanding is that Photoshop will not really benefit from any more cores. See this article...
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2006/12/photoshop_and_multicore.htmlOops. Never mind. :o

[PmattF]

And that's under Rosetta. Means an 8 core Mac Pro with the UB Photoshop will proably take 5 seconds at most. :eek: Wow! :)

Sorry, I should have mentioned that is running CS3 beta on both platforms, so it is universal binary.

Also, my understanding is that Photoshop will not really benefit from any more cores. See this article...
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2006/12/photoshop_and_multicore.html

[psurge]

Every rumor/roadmap I've seen puts Nehalem at the end of 2008 and Wolfdale/Yorkfield (Penryn dual/quad core) somewhere between q3 2007 and q1 2008.

[Multimedia]

FYI - Just discovered Dell is now offering a larger 27" 1920 x 1200 HD resolution 2707WFP monitor (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-7315) now for $1259 vs their 24" 2407WFP which is a steal @ $674 now (10&#37; off sale).

Only does 12ms response and 1000:1 Contrast Ratio though. No Big Deal. My VGA + Dual HDMI + Dual Component In 40" Samsung HDTV is 8ms response time and 6000:1 contrast ratio. And it was only $1680 delivered from Brooklyn.

[kfleung]

OMG! I was still thinking of shooting in ARRI Super-16, scan and transfer to digital then edit and output in HD format through my Mac Pro. I must confess I was out for a long long time. The 12M (4520 X 2540) resolution is close to my still DSLR resolution and way beyond Super-16 film resolution. Now I think even the new 8-core Mac Pro may not be adequate enough for this Digital Cine pack! Look like my HD dream will be further and further away.

[AppliedVisual]

OMG! I was still thinking of shooting in ARRI Super-16, scan and transfer to digital then edit and output in HD format through my Mac Pro. I must confess I was out for a long long time. The 12M (4520 X 2540) resolution is close to my still DSLR resolution and way beyond Super-16 film resolution. Now I think even the new 8-core Mac Pro may not be adequate enough for this Digital Cine pack! Look like my HD dream will be further and further away.

With the RED One you can shoot in 2K using s16 lenses and gain all the properties of s16 format including equivalent DOF and approximate resolution. Or you can shoot in 4K with 35mm glass and gain the shallower DOF and higher detail and then output to 2K for post and editing. Most film workflows these days that go digital for post are still scanned at 2K, there is very little actual 4K production out there. RED One is ahead of the curve in this respect. But 2K is fine and the current Mac Pro should handle it just fine, 8-core systems even better when they arrive.

I've got a project that I'm going to be shooting toward the end of this year. I'm planning to use RED - either mine or borrow/rent another. If something happens where that's not possible, then I'll have to rent something else. I'd like to stay all digital to avoid the mounting costs of film processing/scanning, so I'd probably rent an Arri D20, but those are super expensive to rent and it may be cheaper to go with film since I'll need the camera for 2 to 3 weeks.

[downset]

FYI - Just discovered Dell is now offering a larger 27" 1920 x 1200 HD resolution 2707WFP monitor (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-7315) now for $1259 vs their 24" 2407WFP which is a steal @ $674 now (10% off sale).

Only does 12ms response and 1000:1 Contrast Ratio though. No Big Deal. My VGA + Dual HDMI + Dual Component In 40" Samsung HDTV is 8ms response time and 6000:1 contrast ratio. And it was only $1680 delivered from Brooklyn.

anyone has any expierence with the dell 2407?
i have a samsung 20" (205bw) that i use with my Powermac (DVI) and with my xbox360 (VGA)

i would like to update to the dell 2407 when i get my new macpro, but i have read user opinions that the 2407 sucks for displaying HDTV like the XBOX outputs (720p or 1080i) so that its basicly useless as a xbox360 gaming display or dvd/HDDVD display

as an alternative is there anyway to input my xbox360 in a ACD?

[AppleIntelRock]

as an alternative is there anyway to input my xbox360 in a ACD?

The ACD is VERY thin, I dont think an xbox would fit... ;)

[downset]

i was hoping to just input the signal trough some sort of cable :)

the xbox doesnt fit anywhere by the way, and it makes more noise than a jet airplane taking off, it has some great games mainly because microsoft just buys support from studios but the hardware is just horrible, its impressive how they managed to get the dvd drive that noisy :)

[AppleIntelRock]

i was hoping to just input the signal trough some sort of cable :)

the xbox doesnt fit anywhere by the way, and it makes more noise than a jet airplane taking off, it has some great games mainly because microsoft just buys support from studios but the hardware is just horrible, its impressive how they managed to get the dvd drive that noisy :)

I hear vista is equally impressive. :p

[kfleung]

With the RED One you can shoot in 2K using s16 lenses and gain all the properties of s16 format including equivalent DOF and approximate resolution. Or you can shoot in 4K with 35mm glass and gain the shallower DOF and higher detail and then output to 2K for post and editing. Most film workflows these days that go digital for post are still scanned at 2K, there is very little actual 4K production out there. RED One is ahead of the curve in this respect. But 2K is fine and the current Mac Pro should handle it just fine, 8-core systems even better when they arrive.

I've got a project that I'm going to be shooting toward the end of this year. I'm planning to use RED - either mine or borrow/rent another. If something happens where that's not possible, then I'll have to rent something else. I'd like to stay all digital to avoid the mounting costs of film processing/scanning, so I'd probably rent an Arri D20, but those are super expensive to rent and it may be cheaper to go with film since I'll need the camera for 2 to 3 weeks.

Thx AppliedVisual, I'm so glad to know I'm not alone on the path to migration from SD to HD or even Digi-cine. Unlike in many parts of the World, HK is a very small city with very little to no choice on cine-gear and HD rentals. Besides many rental house are big brothers production houses or co-production firms themselves. Rental fees are sky-high plus high rental deposit. From time to time, I always plan on buying my own gear. My ARRI Super-16 SR II Plan was crushed and abandoned ( my banker failed me ) and give way to my Video gear which proved to be more easy " Account Balance " than the film ventures. For the cost of a set of ARRI Super-16 SR II body with a few film magazines/video assist, three primes and one zoom lens budget, I had got myself two 1/2" 3-FIT CCD pro camera heads, Canon BCTV Zooms, Betacam dock and a ES of my own, 13 years ago. But with SD/DV/DVCAM/DVCPro/DCVPro50 true digital migration, The cost for equivalent setup was only half befoe. Now my present Mac Pro ( Dual Dual-Cores ) and my future Mac Pro ( 8 or 16 Cores )should be able to handle my future 2K HD migration! and at a fraction of the cost plus minimum hardware add-on cards. OMG, I'm glad I'm still alive today. Certainly, I will soon arrive at my cross-road ( HD/Digi-Cine ) but I'm really glad I'm not alone this time! So glad to meet you guys here.

Just hope the 8+/cores Mac Pro can help my HD way out smooth.

[Multimedia]

Thx AppliedVisual, I'm so glad to know I'm not alone on the path to migration from SD to HD or even Digi-cine. Unlike in many parts of the World, HK is a very small city with very little to no choice on cine-gear and HD rentals. Besides many rental house are big brothers production houses or co-production firms themselves. Rental fees are sky-high plus high rental deposit. From time to time, I always plan on buying my own gear. My ARRI Super-16 SR II Plan was crushed and abandoned ( my banker failed me ) and give way to my Video gear which proved to be more easy " Account Balance " than the film ventures. For the cost of a set of ARRI Super-16 SR II body with a few film magazines/video assist, three primes and one zoom lens budget, I had got myself two 1/2" 3-FIT CCD pro camera heads, Canon BCTV Zooms, Betacam dock and a ES of my own, 13 years ago. But with SD/DV/DVCAM/DVCPro/DCVPro50 true digital migration, The cost for equivalent setup was only half befoe. Now my present Mac Pro ( Dual Dual-Cores ) and my future Mac Pro ( 8 or 16 Cores )should be able to handle my future 2K HD migration! and at a fraction of the cost plus minimum hardware add-on cards. OMG, I'm glad I'm still alive today. Certainly, I will soon arrive at my cross-road ( HD/Digi-Cine ) but I'm really glad I'm not alone this time! So glad to meet you guys here.

Just hope the 8+/cores Mac Pro can help my HD way out smooth.Hey AV. Sony is about to ship their next and best-to-date consumer HDV camera the HDR-HC7 (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC7-First-Impressions-Review.htm) with manual audio gain, top loading and a better ClearVID CMOS sensor List $1400. But I still like the HVR-V1U (http://creativemac.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=67595) better list $4900, street $3200+. Both have HDMI output so they will interface with the Blackmagic Design Intensity PCIe Mac Pro cards (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/).

What do you think?

I know you're a RED ONE guy, but if you were a pro-sumer instead, which way would you go?

[psingh01]

i was hoping to just input the signal trough some sort of cable :)

the xbox doesnt fit anywhere by the way, and it makes more noise than a jet airplane taking off, it has some great games mainly because microsoft just buys support from studios but the hardware is just horrible, its impressive how they managed to get the dvd drive that noisy :)

My Xbox fits perfectly into the card board box they sent me so I can ship it back for repairs.......twice......:mad:

[downset]

My Xbox fits perfectly into the card board box they sent me so I can ship it back for repairs.......twice......:mad:

damn, that scares me, i voided my warrenty when i opened the xbox for some reason(..) i pray everyday it doesnt break down, although that would make it more silent :)

[kfleung]

Hey AV. Sony is about to ship their next and best-to-date consumer HDV camera the HDR-HC7 (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC7-First-Impressions-Review.htm) with manual audio gain, top loading and a better ClearVID CMOS sensor List $1400. But I still like the HVR-V1U (http://creativemac.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=67595) better list $4900, street $3200+. Both have HDMI output so they will interface with the Blackmagic Design Intensity PCIe Mac Pro cards (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/).

What do you think?

I know you're a RED ONE guy, but if you were a pro-sumer instead, which way would you go?


Multimedia, before AppliedVisual's answer to your thread, may I jam-in the discussion. Looks like the new Sony HVR-V1V is very similar to that Panasonic HVX200 in the in-camera DSP part. Both camcorders tries to take advantages of pixel shifting tech and other chip level DSPs to raise the resolution/colour to match full-HD ( 1920 X 1080i or P ) specs. I recall our friend AppliedVisual has a copy of the Pana HVX200 camcorder and a Canon HDV Chainsaw himself. I guess he will be the BEST to give us some in-depth opinion on the Pana's or the Sony's. IF it's true for full-HD spec to become the new market trend for the pro-sumer camcorder market, we should expect Canon to release it's Chainsaw full-HD exchangable lens camcorder soon later this year.

Then it would look like another wait and wait game will never end. Perhaps the wait for the 8+/cores Mac Pro will be over long before the release full-HD spec pro-sumer camcorders.

[TMay]

http://dvformat.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=101658

I don't know if it will interface to the Blackmagic PCIe card, but it does state that it has HDMI interface. Anybody hear anything about this?

I think it comes in around a $1100.

[Multimedia]

Multimedia, before AppliedVisual's answer to your thread, may I jam-in the discussion. Looks like the new Sony HVR-V1V is very similar to that Panasonic HVX200 in the in-camera DSP part. Both camcorders tries to take advantages of pixel shifting tech and other chip level DSPs to raise the resolution/colour to match full-HD ( 1920 X 1080i or P ) specs. I recall our friend AppliedVisual has a copy of the Pana HVX200 camcorder and a Canon HDV Chainsaw himself. I guess he will be the BEST to give us some in-depth opinion on the Pana's or the Sony's. IF it's true for full-HD spec to become the new market trend for the pro-sumer camcorder market, we should expect Canon to release it's Chainsaw full-HD exchangable lens camcorder soon later this year.That's already out. The Canon XL H1 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=12152) and XH G1 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=14057) both have SDI uncompressed HD outputs. BUT they do not have HDMI out, which is the port needed to interface directly with the Intensity card(s). There is a kludge work around. Analog Component to HDMI converters are coming out for around $299. All the HDV cameras have analog component out. But that's a pretty expensive work around.Then it would look like another wait and wait game will never end. Perhaps the wait for the 8+/cores Mac Pro will be over long before the release full-HD spec pro-sumer camcorders.I'm out of time. Have a gig I will need to get a HD camera no later than a week after NAB at the latest. Leaning toward the Sony HVR-V1U (Sony Site) (http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/HDV1080/HVR-V1U/index.html) now.New Canon HV20 Ships in April (http://dvformat.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=101658). I don't know if it will interface to the Blackmagic PCIe card, but it does state that it has HDMI interface. Anybody hear anything about this? I think it comes in around a $1100.Yes I know about it. And it will work with the Blackmagic Design $249 Intensity PCIe card for Mac Pro and soon last gen PCIe G5 PowerMacs as well (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/) as will any HD camcorder with HDMI output. But this new Canon HV20 shipping in April looked great (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV20-Yes-Its-True.htm) (real 24p capable) until I noticed it's missing a LANC port so one can't run a remote VariZoom Tripod Controller with it. Makes it DOA for me. And it really bums me out. Their prosumer, industrial and pro cameras all have a LANC port. Why the consumer division thinks none of their customers ever use a remote zoom control is beyond my ability to comprehend. It's plain CRAZY. Here is Canon's opening page for the HV20 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869) FYI. It's also interesting to note that this is the first camera to ever come from ANY DIVISION at Canon with a HDMI port on it. NONE of their Pro HDV cameras have HDMI out BUT THEY ALL HAVE LANC PORTS. Go figure the insanity in their feature Nazis' committee. :mad:

Although the new $1400 Sony HDR-HC7 (camcorderinfo.com First Impression Review) (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC7-First-Impressions-Review.htm) has everything one could minimally need for real production including top loading, manual audio gain with an external audio input and headphone jack, a LANC port as well as HDMI out, the $4890 Sony HVR-V1U (camcorderinfo.com Intro Article) (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-Introduces-HVR-V1U-and-HDD-Unit-in-US.htm) can shoot slow motion for up to 12 continuous seconds (48 seconds playback) while the HC7 can only shoot slowmo for 3 seconds (12 seconds playback) at a time. The HVR-V1U is also real both 24p & 30p. And there's a whole bunch of added controls in there and 3 ClearVid CMOS sensors. Plus it has the ability to easily run various audio options much more easily that way and the parallel Hard Drive recording capability. One other obscure feature I would love to use in extra low light is the ability to boost the gain to +36db - twice the normal +18db max gain in all prosumer cameras to date. I believe they call it Hyper-Gain and you access it through the menu or put it in a preset.

So while that whole package is going to cost a lot more, at my level I'm thinking it can serve me much better in the long run to invest in the HVR-V1U, VCL-HGo862K .8x wide lens, HVR-DR60 HDD recorder, HVL-LBP LCD light, VCT-1BP HDD mount and the UWP-C1 diversity mic receiver plus wireless mic transmitter. Should run almost $10k. But I guess that will be the cheapest way for me to get up to date with HD - both HDV and better via the Blackmagic HDMI input system - for less than $10k rather than more than $30k as AV will be doing. I just don't have that level of cash flow right now. :)

I plan on adding a pair of Sony HDR-HC7 (Sony Site) (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/wbrINTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_HighDefinitionVideo&ProductSKU=HDRHC7&TabName=feature&var2=) camcorders for a three camera shooting solution once On-Air 3.0 (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/on-air/) ships for 3 HDMI Out cameras live shoots with 3 Intensity cards in Mac Pros and last gen G5 PowerMacs this Spring. That will be the "poor person's" pro HD studio system once it's up and working reliably. Am very excited how the Dual Clovertown will help make that system work much more efficiently than anything less could ever do, although I would love to find it working well enough for the Quad G5 to be an alternative host for the 3 camera shoots. Back to the studio for post on the Dual Clovertown Mac Pro. I can't wait for all these parts to come together this Spring. Gonna be one hell of a sea change in video production that's for sure. Here's a bunch of Blackmagic Design Case Studies (http://blackmagic-design.com/casestudies/).

[kfleung]

That's already out. The Canon XL H1 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=12152) and XH G1 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=14057) both have SDI uncompressed HD outputs. BUT they do not have HDMI out, which is the port needed to interface directly with the Intensity card(s). There is a kludge work around. Analog Component to HDMI converters are coming out for around $299. All the HDV cameras have analog component out. But that's a pretty expensive work around.I'm out of time. Have a gig I will need to get a HD camera no later than a week after NAB at the latest. Leaning toward the Sony HVR-V1U (Sony Site) (http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/HDV1080/HVR-V1U/index.html) now.Yes I know about it. And it will work with the Blackmagic Design $249 Intensity PCIe card for Mac Pro and soon last gen PCIe G5 PowerMacs as well (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/) as will any HD camcorder with HDMI output. But this new Canon HV20 shipping in April looked great (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV20-Yes-Its-True.htm) (real 24p capable) until I noticed it's missing a LANC port so one can't run a remote VariZoom Tripod Controller with it. Makes it DOA for me. And it really bums me out. Their prosumer, industrial and pro cameras all have a LANC port. Why the consumer division thinks none of their customers ever use a remote zoom control is beyond my ability to comprehend. It's plain CRAZY. Here is Canon's opening page for the HV20 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869) FYI. It's also interesting to note that this is the first camera to ever come from ANY DIVISION at Canon with a HDMI port on it. NONE of their Pro HDV cameras have HDMI out BUT THEY ALL HAVE LANC PORTS. Go figure the insanity in their feature Nazis' committee. :mad:

Although the new $1400 Sony HDR-HC7 (camcorderinfo.com First Impression Review) (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC7-First-Impressions-Review.htm) has everything one could minimally need for real production including top loading, manual audio gain with an external audio input and headphone jack, a LANC port as well as HDMI out, the $4890 Sony HVR-V1U (camcorderinfo.com Intro Article) (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-Introduces-HVR-V1U-and-HDD-Unit-in-US.htm) can shoot slow motion for up to 12 continuous seconds (48 seconds playback) while the HC7 can only shoot slowmo for 3 seconds (12 seconds playback) at a time. The HVR-V1U is also real both 24p & 30p. And there's a whole bunch of added controls in there and 3 ClearVid CMOS sensors. Plus it has the ability to easily run various audio options much more easily that way and the parallel Hard Drive recording capability. One other obscure feature I would love to use in extra low light is the ability to boost the gain to +36db - twice the normal +18db max gain in all prosumer cameras to date. I believe they call it Hyper-Gain and you access it through the menu or put it in a preset.

So while that whole package is going to cost a lot more, at my level I'm thinking it can serve me much better in the long run to invest in the HVR-V1U, VCL-HGo862K .8x wide lens, HVR-DR60 HDD recorder, HVL-LBP LCD light, VCT-1BP HDD mount and the UWP-C1 diversity mic receiver plus wireless mic transmitter. Should run almost $10k. But I guess that will be the cheapest way for me to get up to date with HD - both HDV and better via the Blackmagic HDMI input system - for less than $10k rather than more than $30k as AV will be doing. I just don't have that level of cash flow right now. :)

I plan on adding a pair of Sony HDR-HC7 (Sony Site) (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/wbrINTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_HighDefinitionVideo&ProductSKU=HDRHC7&TabName=feature&var2=) camcorders for a three camera shooting solution once On-Air 3.0 (http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/on-air/) ships for 3 HDMI Out cameras live shoots with 3 Intensity cards in Mac Pros and last gen G5 PowerMacs this Spring. That will be the "poor person's" pro HD studio system once it's up and working reliably. Am very excited how the Dual Clovertown will help make that system work much more efficiently than anything less could ever do, although I would love to find it working well enough for the Quad G5 to be an alternative host for the 3 camera shoots. Back to the studio for post on the Dual Clovertown Mac Pro. I can't wait for all these parts to come together this Spring. Gonna be one hell of a sea change in video production that's for sure. Here's a bunch of Blackmagic Design Case Studies (http://blackmagic-design.com/casestudies/).

Sorry Sir,

Current Canon XL H1 and XH G1 are not Full-HD Spec ( 1920 X 1080 i or P ) , they're merely HDV. Both resolution and colour space are inferior than Full-HD Spec. I guessed ! But current Mac Pro and Final Cut Pro support both HDV and Full-HD video. That's the good news!

[Multimedia]

Sorry Sir,
Current Canon XL H1 and XH G1 are not Full-HD Spec ( 1920 X 1080 i or P ) , they're merely HDV. Both resolution and colour space are inferior than Full-HD Spec. I guessed ! But current Mac Pro and Final Cut Pro support both HDV and Full-HD video. That's the good news!No they are not merely HDV. They both have full uncompressed HD outputs that leave the camera 1920 x 1080 with the full uncompressed HD signal before that signal also goes through a HDV codec down to 1440 x 1080 on the way to mini DV tape. Same is true of all HDMI output cameras that also output uncompressed 1920 x 1080 native HD video from native 1920 x 1080 sensors, like the Sony HDR-HC7 and HVR-V1U, in addition to recording 1440 x 1080 HDV on miniDV tape. :rolleyes:

We're talking about the live feed not what comes from the recording inside the camera, although the interpolation scheme from HDV recordings that comes out the HDMI port is a superior less compressed variant of the much smaller and more highly compressed HDV stream that comes out the FireWire port. In my post above I give you links to BlackMagic Design's Intensity HDMI i/o PCIe card for Mac Pro for an alternative codec recording system where some of this is explained. I am working to help BlackMagic Design improve their explanation. Their site is informative to a point but incomplete. I have discussed this extensively with them and they know they need to explain it better.

Looks like you haven't done your homework kfleung.

[kfleung]

Multimedia,

Thanks for your advises again, including, I had not done my homework well enough, Sorry! Be honest, my dear wife always complaints the same! Hahahaha

Yes, you're right about the Full-HD output on Canon XL- H1 but only available through it's built-in SDI output for live feed. But I don't have portable SDI interfaced video recorder with me. So in my case, I may need an one piece Full-HD Spec. Camcorder to shoot and record on locations. Yes, you are right about HDMI provisions because it's a less expensive interface than the SDI and HDMI periperials will be more easily available and in-expensive soon. But SDI is designed for Pro Video industry and can carry live video signal through long to very long cables while the HDMI is designed for very close range transmission I guessed.

I guess Panasonic P2 video camcorder may seem to be my only solution right now as it's in-expensive and flexible enough for my initial Full-HD migration this year if I have a HD project.
Certainly, I expect more and more Full-HD Spec. Pro-sumer video camcorders coming out through 2007. If you can't wait, can't help. I'll keep my fingers crossed and wait for the latest updates on both Full-HD Camcorders and 8+/cores Mac Pro before I go out and shop again!

[Multimedia]

Multimedia,
Thanks for your advice again, including, I had not done my homework well enough, Sorry! Be honest, my dear wife always complaints the same! Hahahaha

Yes, you're right about the Full-HD output on Canon XL- H1 but only available through it's built-in SDI output for live feed.Also on the G1. But no HDMI out on any of the Canon's EXCEPT the new HV20 which has NO LANC port rendering it DOA.But I don't have portable SDI interfaced video recorder with me. So in my case, I may need an one piece Full-HD Spec. Camcorder to shoot and record on locations. Yes, you are right about HDMI provisions because it's a less expensive interface than the SDI and HDMI periperials will be more easily available and inexpensive soon. But SDI is designed for Pro Video industry and can carry live video signal through long to very long cables while the HDMI is designed for very close range transmission I guessed.

I guess Panasonic P2 video camcorder may seem to be my only solution right now as it's inexpensive and flexible enough for my initial Full-HD migration this year if I have a HD project.

Certainly, I expect more and more Full-HD Spec. Pro-sumer video camcorders coming out through 2007. If you can't wait, can't help. I'll keep my fingers crossed and wait for the latest updates on both Full-HD Camcorders and 8+/cores Mac Pro before I go out and shop again!Well I'm looking at longer HDMI cables with built-in repeaters coming from HomeAVCables.com (http://store.homeavcables.com/hdmi-hdmi-cables.html) at 98 feet now for only $185 each and longer soon. I see the Mac Pro with Intensity cards as a poor person's HDVR with both 4 and 8 cores. And once BlackMagic Design fixes the bug in the last gen PowerMac G5 PCIe's bus, even those old timers may have longevity as basic HDVRs via Intensity cards in them as well.

From a low-budget economical point-of-view, the Canon cameras are actually WORSE than any of the cheaper cameras from other companies - most notably Sonys with HDMI outputs because SDI HD output implies a much more expensive set of solutions for switching and recording than does HDMI out with Intensity PCIe cards which are also for all sorts of Windows computers as well as Mac Pros.

I think I am going to have to go to Las Vegas for NAB to figure all this out. There are just too many variables to be able to figure it out sitting at home on the internet. And a lot of the complementary solutions won't be revealed until that week. :confused:

I wish AppliedVisual would tell us how he generates so much cash flow doing HD in Denver that he can afford multiple HD setups. What's your secret AV? You must be very popular. ;)

[psingh01]

damn, that scares me, i voided my warrenty when i opened the xbox for some reason(..) i pray everyday it doesnt break down, although that would make it more silent :)

Well I got my replacement 360....WOW. I turned it on and didn't hear the disc drive whining and making all the racket it usually does. Is this how it was supposed to sound all along? Silent? Either way I am happy :)....however, if the new one starts scratching discs like my old ones I will take a sledgehammer to it.

[ffakr]

anyone has any expierence with the dell 2407?
i have a samsung 20" (205bw) that i use with my Powermac (DVI) and with my xbox360 (VGA)

i would like to update to the dell 2407 when i get my new macpro, but i have read user opinions that the 2407 sucks for displaying HDTV like the XBOX outputs (720p or 1080i) so that its basicly useless as a xbox360 gaming display or dvd/HDDVD display

as an alternative is there anyway to input my xbox360 in a ACD?

Could you define "sucks" in regard to the monitor?

I use a 2407 with my MacBook Pro and I have no complaints. I don't watch broadcast video but I've watched high quality video with no complaints. The excuse for purchasing the 2407 was actually to develop Quartz Composer at 1080p resolution so I was doing full screen resolution 3d animation with no problems.

In general, Apple and Dell tend to use the same LCD panels. Apple's Cinema's are still 23" but the 2407 is likely identical to the 24" iMac. They didn't look particularly different to me when we last had a 24" iMac in the office for a setup.

BTW, they 2407 can be had for less than the Mid-$600s. If you want one, just watch techbargains.com and slickdeals.net. You'll see them on sale i the upper $500s with some regularity.

ffakr.

[Multimedia]

anyone has any expierence with the dell 2407?
i have a samsung 20" (205bw) that i use with my Powermac (DVI) and with my xbox360 (VGA)

i would like to update to the dell 2407 when i get my new macpro, but i have read user opinions that the 2407 sucks for displaying HDTV like the XBOX outputs (720p or 1080i) so that its basicly useless as a xbox360 gaming display or dvd/HDDVD display

as an alternative is there anyway to input my xbox360 in a ACD?
Could you define "sucks" in regard to the monitor?

I use a 2407 with my MacBook Pro and I have no complaints. I don't watch broadcast video but I've watched high quality video with no complaints. The excuse for purchasing the 2407 was actually to develop Quartz Composer at 1080p resolution so I was doing full screen resolution 3d animation with no problems.

In general, Apple and Dell tend to use the same LCD panels. Apple's Cinema's are still 23" but the 2407 is likely identical to the 24" iMac. They didn't look particularly different to me when we last had a 24" iMac in the office for a setup.

BTW, they 2407 can be had for less than the Mid-$600s. If you want one, just watch techbargains.com and slickdeals.net. You'll see them on sale i the upper $500s with some regularity.I like the look of the base of the 2407. While I've never seen one in person, my 2405 is great and includes the ability to rotate 90&#176; - if you have ATI graphics in your Mac which all support monitor rotation. I can't imagine the 2407 being worse. I think that guy complaining just got up on the wrong side of the rock that day. :p

If I were you I would not hesitate to get the Dell 2407 for under $600 when on super sale.

[ffakr]

I like the look of the base of the 2407. While I've never seen one in person, my 2405 is great and includes the ability to rotate 90° - if you have ATI graphics in your Mac which all support monitor rotation. I can't imagine the 2407 being worse. I think that guy complaining just got up on the wrong side of the rock that day. :p

If I were you I would not hesitate to get the Dell 2407 for under $600 when on super sale.

The 2407 also supports rotation.
Actually any video card in a Mac can rotate the display IF you have 10.4. You have to hold down a modifer (control key I think) when you click on the Monitor prefpane. It's a hidden feature in 10.4.

There is a lower end model than the 2407 (which is just model size/model year.. 24" 2007 model). The 2407 has all the bells though.. height adjust stand, rotation, usb hub.. SCRATCH THAT.. the lower end model doesn't appear to be available anymore.

[Multimedia]

The 2407 also supports rotation. Actually any video card in a Mac can rotate the display IF you have 10.4. You have to hold down a modifer (control key I think) when you click on the Monitor prefpane. It's a hidden feature in 10.4.ACTUALLY NEVER DID. Not a hidden feature of 10.4. A MISSING feature of ALL NVIDEA Cards. It's not the monitors that support rotation, it's the video cards that do it. Tried it and the NVIDEA card in my Quad G5 does NOT support rotation like my ATI Radeon X1900 GT card and my PowerBook G4 64MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 do.There is a lower end model than the 2407 (which is just model size/model year.. 24" 2007 model). The 2407 has all the bells though.. height adjust stand, rotation, usb hub.. SCRATCH THAT.. the lower end model doesn't appear to be available anymore.Never was at 1920 x 1200.

[AppliedVisual]

Multimedia, before AppliedVisual's answer to your thread, may I jam-in the discussion. Looks like the new Sony HVR-V1V is very similar to that Panasonic HVX200 in the in-camera DSP part.

Oh wow... lots of OT camera discussion going on. I walk away for a couple days and *pow*.

The HVR-V1 uses a 3-chip approach, but this time around is a CMOS sensor instead of CCD. It's actually the first 3-chip CMOS camera to hit the market. Effective CMOS pixels work out to about 1.1M, Sony has not come out directly with the exact resolution of the sensor block, but it is using some form of pixel shifting. Horizontal for sure, quite possibly vertical shift as well. I'm guessing it's 3 x 1280x1080 CMOS censors with the green layer shifted horizontally by half a pixel to effectively double the luma information per pixel. Before you snub your nose at pixel shifting, I just have to say that it really does work well. Keep in mind that CCD and CMOS sensor data is analog in nature and is sampled as such and digitized. It's not a direct 1:1 digital pixel relationship. It also helps reduce the noise to signal ratio, which is especially important because the V1 only has a 1/4" sensor size - ouch!

Newer single-CMOS sensor cameras coming to market like the HC7 and Canon HV20 have full HD resolution sensors (1920x1080 effective pixels). But resolution isn't everything and while the HV20 isn't officially shipping in the USA yet (April), it's getting mixed reviews in the Japanese market and by previewers here in the west. Even though it has full HD resolution, several factors come into play that negate that... First of all, the internal video is down-sampled to 1440x1080 for processing and then is encoded as HDV. HDV encoding for 1080 HD is done at 1440x1080, not the full 1920x1080 raster. These newer camcorders have progressive scanning CMOS sensors, which allows them to scan at 48Hz in addition to 50/60Hz standards. Meaning that they can shoot true 24fps to mimmick film. The 24 frames per second are encoded into a 60i stream (since that's the HDV standard) and can be properly extracted for true 24p within a supporting NLE software. Not a new trick - Panasonic was the first to do this with the DVX100 camcorder. It's new for the palmcorder market though - with the HV20 being the first.

As I said, all HDV camcorders encode at 1440x1080 for 1080i HD. Canon's XLH1 uses a 3-CCD system with 1440x1080 CCDs that shift the green component layer half a pixel horizontally and then are sampled as a full 1920x1080 raster and processed that way. Full raster 1920x1080i @ 4:2:2 uncompressed can be captured live from the XLH1 via it's SDI interface, but recording to tape is still HDV 1440x1080.

Anyway, my only recent hands-on experience with compact prosumer camcorders is limited to the Sony A1 and the HVR-HC3, which I currently own. I use the HC3 for home movies, kids, pets, etc... Not good for much else. It's sensor is CMOS @ 1440X1080 and it takes a nice picture, although noisy in all but the best light. As with all palmcorders, some resolution is sacrificed when the image stabilization is turned on... And I recommend doing so unless you have it mounted on a tripod or other form of support. IMO, palmcorder video is nearly unwatchable in most situations, even for home movies.

With this newer crop of HDV camcorders, I don't know which one I would pick... I suppose it depends on your needs and your budget. While the new ones have HDMI interfaces (so does my HC3) don't worry about getting a blackmagic card or other HDMI interface/capture card. There is some evidence to support that some of these camera models will send out a video signal from a live feed that has not yet undergone HDV compression. However it's still heavily processed and has the 1440x1080 raster scaled to 1920x1080 for HDMI output along with the 8bits/channel color and all the other nasties that these cameras produce. So your gaining very little for a lot of extra hardware to lug around and in some cases, you may be taking a step backward due to the horizontal scaling goin on. You would always have to record live to a portable HDMI capture system and not to tape to gain such benefits and even then, you're not going to get 10bit/4:2:2 color uncompressed video out of a $1K camcorder -- not going to happen. So just record to tape and plug it in via firewire like everyone else. If you need better quality, buy a better camera.

[kfleung]

Hi AppliedVisual,

But I thought the Panasonic HVX 200 did record HD through Panasonic DVCProHD coding in it's P2 Card. I presume although DVCProHD may not be 100% Full-HD spec., it should be much better than HDV in both resolution and colour space encoding ( 8-bit @ 4:2:2 + Frame base recording ) especially if I need to edit the footage extensively in case.

Sorry for the move-away of the original thread topic!

[kfleung]

Sir,

Is it the Panasonic HVX 200 is the most flexible HD spec camcorder so far. I can note the plastic lens is no good, the P2 Card sucks on both current capacity and price, But it costs 1/10 of it's DVCProHD one piece Pro camcorder. What can we expect then!

[MrTed]

Why are we talking about cams here ? ....8 core in january ? :D

[Multimedia]

Why are we talking about cams here ? ....8 core in january ? :DThis is the latest 8 Core thread and as long as it ain't coming out yet, we need to fill our waiting time with anything remotely related to what we will use the 8 core for. ;)

[Nicolasdec]

Will it be the most powerfull computer in the world.:D

[downset]

Well I got my replacement 360....WOW. I turned it on and didn't hear the disc drive whining and making all the racket it usually does. Is this how it was supposed to sound all along? Silent? Either way I am happy :)....however, if the new one starts scratching discs like my old ones I will take a sledgehammer to it.

all xbox360 manufactered after novemeber2006 have a new benq/liteon/phillips dvd drive instead of the older LG or samsung drive

they are supposed to be more silent


on the topic of the 2407

i read some extra info on 2407 and the xbox, with the VGA cable it should work fine, but the component input seems to be oversaturated and unstable
i will buy one when i get my mac pro

[AppliedVisual]

But I thought the Panasonic HVX 200 did record HD through Panasonic DVCProHD coding in it's P2 Card. I presume although DVCProHD may not be 100% Full-HD spec., it should be much better than HDV in both resolution and colour space encoding ( 8-bit @ 4:2:2 + Frame base recording ) especially if I need to edit the footage extensively in case.

It does record DVCPROHD to P2 media, I never said that it didn't. The HVX200 uses a 3-CCD sensor block with an effective pixel resolution of 960x540. The green component layer is shifted half a pixel both horizontally and vertically, to effectively double the luma information in both directions. This pixel shift works very well and is more than ample to generate a full 1280x720p HD sample. The HVX200 is primarily a 720p camera. It does however offer both 1080i and 1080p recording, although it does not have much ability for detail beyond 720p. 1080 out of the HVX does show a bit more detail (in some situations) than 720p out of the camera, but any resolution chart test will show that its 1080 modes fall short of cameras like XLH1 for detail.

There are advantages to the HVX200 -- reasons I still own and use one for real work. The P2 tapeless workflow is a huge advantage if the P2 workflow can fit in with your production style and type of projects. HVX200 has variable frame rates... No other video camera under $35K has this ability. It can shoot true 24p as well as 2, 4, 12, 16, 18, 24, 30, 32, 48, etc.. up to 60fps by default. A simple tex-editor hack of a scene file (which can be loaded to the camera via SD memory card) can give the user access to any frame rate from 1fps up to 60fps by 1fps increments. The camera can also do interval/time-lapse recording too.

It does have a fixed lens, but it's actually a very nice lens regardless of what some people say. Beyond that, there are 35mm adapters that will allow the use of Nikon, Canon or PL mount still or cine lenses with this camera. Some of the results with this arrangement are nothing short of amazing when considering the price range.

Other great advantages to the HVX200 are its color and motion abilities. The color reproduction on this camera is amazing. I will argue that it has more film-like colors and better color reproduction in general than any camcorder under $10K and probably better than many other camcorders at several times its price. Since it uses DVCPRO and DVCPROHD, you do get 4:2:2 color space and I frame recording. No long GOP HDV/MPEG here, so it does have some advantages for editing. But DVCPROHD doesn't survive multi-generation rendering a whole lot better than HDV, regardless of what Panasonic and the DVCPRO fanboys tell you. It's true advantage is the 4:2:2 color as it helps tremendously with color correction and FX operations like chroma keying. DVCPROHD also has a few shortcomings too.. First of all, it's not a full raster format. Just like HDV, 1920x1080 is actually encoded as a smaller raster. For 60Hz modes, DVCPROHD records 1080 HD as 1280x1080 (50Hz PAL modes get 1440x1080). For 720p modes, the raster is encoded at 960x720. This is true of *ALL* DVCPROHD cameras as it is the limitation of the DVCPROHD format itself, so even the $60K Varicam still encodes 960x720p raster.

The HVX200 has filled lots of very surprising roles. It was used to shoot pick-up shots for Spielberg's "Munich" when they launched the film in eastern Europe and the Middle East. Due to various religious pressures of the region, some of the night bedroom scene were re-shot. The HVX200 footage was able to be matched sufficeintly to the original film production.

The HVX200 is a great camera for the money and still does a lot of things that many more expenisve cameras do not. I would recommend you rent one and try it out before buying one.. The P2 workflow doesn't work for everyone and there are some pitfalls to go along with it. But if P2 works for you and you need the frame rate options along with exquisite color reproduction and abilities, then the HVX200 is a no-brainer.

Sorry for the move-away of the original thread topic!

Don't worry about it, it wasn't your fault. :)

[TheDance511]

8 cores???? WOW! i wonder how long it will take to find programs to fully utilize all 8! :apple:

[AppliedVisual]

8 cores???? WOW! i wonder how long it will take to find programs to fully utilize all 8! :apple:

Let me see... I look at my shelf full of software boxes and.. That took about 1.3 seconds to find them. Many high-end 3D graphics, video processing/encoding, CAD, engineering, analysis, simulation, etc.. type apps already can use 4+ cores. Dell and HP have been selling 8-core workstations since Intel first shipped their quad-core Xeon CPUs. We're waiting for Apple to come out with their offering... Most likely Apple is waiting for the next Intel chipset revision, which is due to ship to OEMs by the end of this month, placing products using this new chipset in the hands of consumers by mid-April. This makes a perfect fit for Apple to announce and ship 8-core Mac Pro systems at the NAB show in April... Also makes sense for updated pro applications to be introduced at this show too.

[elbirth]

Just thought I'd also chime in on the Dell 2407WFP discussion:

I've had one for several months and have no gripes whatsoever about it. It completely dwarfs my old 20" Dell display (2005FPW). As downset noted above, I've heard some people complain about the component inputs, but otherwise no issues. I regularly watch HD content on it directly from my MacBook Pro and it looks amazing.

I just went to my display prefpane and noticed that the rotate option is there, without requiring me to hold down any modifier keys (in fact, holding down the control key made it change the resolution to my MBP's display to 800x600... yuck!)

I'd really like to see some kind of updated video cards for the 8-core systems mainly because I plan on running 3 2407WFP LCDs off of it.

[Multimedia]

8 cores???? WOW! i wonder how long it will take to find programs to fully utilize all 8! :apple:Among mainstream inexpensive applications, I spoke with the authors of Toast 8 at MacWorld Expo. They told me it "should" use all 8 cores of the Dual Clovertown Mac Pro according to how OS X is written today. They assured me that if it doesn't due to surprises in the hardware or OS X, they will fix it to do so as soon as the 8 core Mac Pro ships ASAP. You should also understand that it is not necessary that anything does since one of the main reasons for having an 8 core Mac Pro is to deal with a multi-threaded workflow (http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/12/eight-core-mac-pro-benchmarks/) - mostly not just running one application but many at once.

[Multimedia]

Just thought I'd also chime in on the Dell 2407WFP discussion:

I've had one for several months and have no gripes whatsoever about it. It completely dwarfs my old 20" Dell display (2005FPW). As downset noted above, I've heard some people complain about the component inputs, but otherwise no issues. I regularly watch HD content on it directly from my MacBook Pro and it looks amazing.

I just went to my display prefpane and noticed that the rotate option is there, without requiring me to hold down any modifier keys (in fact, holding down the control key made it change the resolution to my MBP's display to 800x600... yuck!)

I'd really like to see some kind of updated video cards for the 8-core systems mainly because I plan on running 3 2407WFP LCDs off of it.Which MacBook Pro? What is the video card in your MacBook Pro? ATI something?

Current models use ATI Mobility Radeon X1600. My old 1.25GHz G4 PB also uses ATI Mbility Radeon 9600 which also supports rotation.

Irony is that NVIDEA does support rotation on all PCs but NEVER on any Macs.

[elbirth]

Which MacBook Pro? What is the video card in your MacBook Pro? ATI something?

Current models use ATI Mobility Radeon X1600. My old 1.25GHz G4 PB also uses ATI Mbility Radeon 9600 which also supports rotation.

Irony is that NVIDEA does support rotation on all PCs but NEVER on any Macs.

I have one of the original 15" MacBook Pros from their launch (I preordered just moments after the keynote and received it almost exactly 1 year ago now, about Feb 14 or so... wow, that makes it feel old)
And yes, you're right- the ATI Radeon X1600 256MB video card is what's in it.

That's pretty interesting that nvidia doesnt support it, but I guess it makes sense, seeing as how the Macs seem to stick with ATI. I wonder, though, if there's a 3rd party driver somewhere out there that would allow for this to be done. I know there are plenty of such workarounds on the linux side of things, and since OS X has a unix core, something should be tweakable, I'd think.

[Multimedia]

I have one of the original 15" MacBook Pros from their launch (I preordered just moments after the keynote and received it almost exactly 1 year ago now, about Feb 14 or so... wow, that makes it feel old)
And yes, you're right- the ATI Radeon X1600 256MB video card is what's in it.

That's pretty interesting that nvidia doesnt support it, but I guess it makes sense, seeing as how the Macs seem to stick with ATI. I wonder, though, if there's a 3rd party driver somewhere out there that would allow for this to be done. I know there are plenty of such workarounds on the linux side of things, and since OS X has a unix core, something should be tweakable, I'd think.Apple hasn't stuck with ATI on their Pro Desktops since the last gen G5 PowerMacs which all shipped with NVIDEA as do the Mac Pros unless you BTO more expensive ATI cards. Bums me out. Had to spend $350 on an ATI card for my Quad G5 just so I could rotate a 20" 1600x1200 display in order to get it to be the same height as my 30". Lot of money - more money than the monitor - just to do rotation. Bums me out man. :mad: But I do find 1600 high by 1200 wide much more useful to me. So in that sense it was worth it.

[Mac Kiwi]

Boxx are already doing 16 core workstations so highend applications can definitely use more then 8.

http://boxxtech.com/Products/APEXX/apexx8_overview.asp

[MacsAttack]

So... No 8 Core Mac Pro in January then???? :D

When they do come out, you all may want to hold off buying one. i hear that we could have 8 core CPUs in 2008. 16 cores in a Mac Pro obviously is far better, so you'll want to be saving your money for that upgrade and not waste your time with a piddling 8 cores. :p

[kromekat]

So... No 8 Core Mac Pro in January then???? :D

When they do come out, you all may want to hold off buying one. i hear that we could have 8 core CPUs in 2008. 16 cores in a Mac Pro obviously is far better, so you'll want to be saving your money for that upgrade and not waste your time with a piddling 8 cores. :p

I am holding out for 32 cores.

...NOT!

[Multimedia]

So... No 8 Core Mac Pro in January then???? :D

When they do come out, you all may want to hold off buying one. i hear that we could have 8 core CPUs in 2008. 16 cores in a Mac Pro obviously is far better, so you'll want to be saving your money for that upgrade and not waste your time with a piddling 8 cores. :pGreat idea. I hope everyone here follows your advice so I can get mine sooner. :rolleyes: :p

[kfleung]

I guess both 16-cores and 32-cores are a bit remote and premature at this moment, but 45nm multi-core Intel is imminent later this year. So a true 4-core or 8-core Intel ( unitified on same die like AMD's ) Mac Pro is most likely sometime later this year. Btw, after so many years of Joy and pain with PCs, Intergraph, Sun and the likes, I decide to join Mac. And only Mac for me! :)

[Multimedia]

I guess both 16-cores and 32-cores are a bit remote and premature at this moment, but 45nm multi-core Intel is imminent later this year. So a true 4-core or 8-core Intel ( unitified on same die like AMD's ) Mac Pro is most likely sometime later this year. Btw, after so many years of Joy and pain with PCs, Intergraph, Sun and the likes, I decide to join Mac. And only Mac for me! :)I doubt any of us here don't know that's coming near year end. But I think most of us need more cores now and will not be waiting for what's after Clovertown. When that Mac Pro ships, we'll probably either keep the Dual Clovertown and add the next one to our arsenal or sell the Dual Clovertown and buy the next one for a few dollars more. Waiting beyond Clovertown is only for those who don't really need 8 cores now which is probably nobody on this forum. :rolleyes:

[kfleung]

My concern on the 45nm is solely on their possible lower operation temperature rather than the number of cores. I thought the present two Intel Woodies running in my 2.66G Mac Pro should be pretty cool but it turns out to be very hot, an average temp. of over 72 deg.C. so are the 4 G of DDR2 FB DIMM RAM runing at above 75 Deg.C Not to mention the hot ATI X1900XT Dispaly Card. I only run the Apple's Aperture alone and a few hardware monitoring app in the backgound. I doubt the operating temperatures of the coming 65nm Clovertown ( dual-Woodies on same die ).

Surely if Apple decide to release it tomorrow, it should work but perhaps at some compromises and not at it's best. Well, who knows what the BEST is anyway!

Surely when the Dual Quad-core Clovertown Mac Pro released, you can tell us in details then. Blessing!

[patrick0brien]

I myself am juuuust fine with a four-core to chip machine as I work with a guy who's been doing multithreaded programming since about 1992.

According to him, there's a wall at four cores, as cache allocation gets very difficult to manage as the cores all get grabby and start stomping and stealing each other's cache allocations - or something like that, most of what he says is waaaay over my head - but he's not Chief Architect of my Company for nothing.

In a nutshell, he mentioned there's a falloff in returns. Basically you can get 100&#37; efficiency of one core on a one-core chip, 99% of each core of a two-core chip, 96% of each core of a four core chip, but something like 72% of each core of an eight-core chip. That's quite the cliff.

Therefore, he's not expecting that moving beyond four cores per chip is going to happen for a few years yet, and four-cores is a good time to buy. So that's good enough for me.

In fact, he's a switcher-in-wait, and he'd be a great member here, don't think that's going to happen until he gets his first Mac.

(we were at CompUSA Friday and I caught him stroking the display model MacPro while muttering something about "brushed aluminum creamy goodness")

[Multimedia]

I myself am juuuust fine with a four-core to chip machine as I work with a guy who's been doing multithreaded programming since about 1992.

According to him, there's a wall at four cores, as cache allocation gets very difficult to manage as the cores all get grabby and start stomping and stealing each other's cache allocations - or something like that, most of what he says is waaaay over my head - but he's not Chief Architect of my Company for nothing.

In a nutshell, he mentioned there's a falloff in returns. Basically you can get 100&#37; efficiency of one core on a one-core chip, 99% of each core of a two-core chip, 96% of each core of a four core chip, but something like 72% of each core of an eight-core chip. That's quite the cliff.

Therefore, he's not expecting that moving beyond four cores per chip is going to happen for a few years yet, and four-cores is a good time to buy. So that's good enough for me.

In fact, he's a switcher-in-wait, and he'd be a great member here, don't think that's going to happen until he gets his first Mac.

(we were at CompUSA Friday and I caught him stroking the display model MacPro while muttering something about "brushed aluminum creamy goodness")Perhaps. But the new management chipset, Stoakley-Seaburg (http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=1), may help overcome some of that. And since he's driving your software development, maybe he'll go to the WWDC in June so he can keep on top of the newest developments.

I've been working with a 4 core machine for a year and I still have to set up a queue most of the time because 4 cores cannot handle more than two tasks efficiently. I need to be running 4 or more tasks simultaneously a lot of the time. Being told by strangers that I don't need 8 cores or that 8 cores is overkill really annoys me because I have real work here that I am 100% certain will benefit from an 8 core Mac Pro.

I NEVER tell anyone they don't need an 8 core Mac Pro unless they tell me they can't afford it. Then I refer them to the refurb page where they can find 4 cores for $2200.

[patrick0brien]

Perhaps. But the new management chipset, Stoakley-Seaburg (http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=1), may help overcome some of that. And since he's driving your software development, I suggest you send him to the WWDC in June so he can catch up with why 8 cores makes since already - not to mention reading many of the above posts. :rolleyes:

I've been working with a 4 core machine for a year and it is not just fine at all.

-Multimedia

Perhaps I should have been more clear. The falloff is more than four cores per chip.

BTW- If he were to go to WWDC, he'd be a guy on stage, so enough of the 'my daddy can beat up your daddy'

I would appreciate it if you'd ask for clarification before thinking about talking down your nose at someone - especially someone who just defended you.

[Multimedia]

-Multimedia

Perhaps I should have been more clear. The falloff is more than four cores per chip.

BTW- If he were to go to WWDC, he'd be a guy on stage, so enough of the 'my daddy can beat up your daddy'

I would appreciate it if you'd ask for clarification before thinking about talking down your nose at someone - especially someone who just defended you.We both misunderstood each other. I didn't mean to give the impression I was talking down my nose at anyone. So I editing my original post to remove that language.

I am so frustrated at how slow 4 cores are for what I do and I thought you were writing about not needing more than 4 in a computer not 4 per package or "processor". Sorry. 16 cores cannot probably come soon enough for my video compression work. I think the 3D guys also have this problem.

Thanks for the defense. I asked the moderators if they thought that was cool and you see the result.

I think that for those of us who are here because we know we're gonna buy an 8 core Mac Pro the day it's announced for sale are probably very frustrated that day still isn't here. So these posts may be a little punchy meanwhile. :eek: :(

[patrick0brien]

We both misunderstood each other. I did mean to give the impression I was talking down my nose at anyone. I am so frustrated at how slow 4 cores are for what I do and I thought you were writing about not needing more than 4 in a computer not 4 per package or "processor". Sorry. 16 cores cannot probably come soon enough for my video compression work. I think the 3D guys also have this problem.

Thanks for the defense. I asked the moderators if they thought that was cool and you see the result.

-Multimedia

Agreed. I'm glad we can reconcile.

You're welcome on the defense, I almost reported him but I usually give someone one chance before I pull out that nuke. :D

Agreed that four cores are not enough for the heavy stuff - remember I do Music, Video and 3d as well, so I'm in the 8-core boat.

I was referring to the fact that buying at the 4-core per chip Clovertown is a good time due to the core limit there. To increase the core count after Clovertown they'll have to start adding chips - at least for a while yet anyway. So likely the next improvement to multicore chip tech will be the 45nm process of the Penryn, not an increase in cores.

So four quad-core chips for 16. What would Apple call that one?

BTW- if one were wanting to do that now, you could always get another machine and connect them using Fibrechannel...

[Multimedia]

-Multimedia

Agreed that four cores are not enough for the heavy stuff - remember I do Music, Video and 3d as well, so I'm in the 8-core boat.

I was referring to the fact that buying at the 4-core per chip Clovertown is a good time due to the core limit there. To increase the core count after Clovertown they'll have to start adding chips - at least for a while yet anyway. So likely the next improvement to multicore chip tech will be the 45nm process of the Penryn, not an increase in cores.

So four quad-core chips for 16. What would Apple call that one?

BTW- if one were wanting to do that now, you could always get another machine and connect them using Fibrechannel...Do you think Intel will make a motherboard with 4 Penryn sockets? That would be very cool to have if management could deal with double the core count. I agree 8 cores in a single processor package is not likely for another year and a half at least. I think I will be happy with the 8 core Dual Clovertown for at least a few months. :p Also depends on software behavior as well.

Looks like I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=O0BrjK_HUbxqiOoMaVlhh-DWBvRHYraPPqE=?CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_HighDefinitionVideo&ProductSKU=HDRHC7&TabName=feature&var2=) later this month when they arrive. Gotta get something new soon or I'm gonna have CWS - Consumerism Withdrawal Syndrome.

MUST KEEP CONSUMING BUYING WHATEVER :eek:

SHOP 'TIL I DROP :eek:

BORN 2 BUY and THEN I DIE :eek:

While I can't post new threads from this place in the Forums, I discovered I can elsewhere. So I have initiated a new SONY HDR-HC7 Camcorder thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278617) over in the Digital Video part of the Special Interests section. I didn't understand that posting threads permission is context sensitive depending on where you are in the Forums. Sorry for all the above off topics because I didn't understand that although everything is directly related to our 8 core Mac Pros in the end.

[patrick0brien]

Do you think Intel will make a motherboard with 4 Penryn sockets?

I think that Penryn would be required before we could get a four-socket Mobo because of its reduce power, heat, and physical size. It may also require a two-tier Mobo as well, you can bet the engineers have already got this one licked, we just haven't heard of it yet ;) But I feel that Stoakley is a requirement at that point.

Hell, I can see a Mobo with eight sockets... :eek:

Looks like I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=O0BrjK_HUbxqiOoMaVlhh-DWBvRHYraPPqE=?CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_HighDefinitionVideo&ProductSKU=HDRHC7&TabName=feature&var2=) later this month when they arrive. Gotta get something new soon or I'm gonna have CWS - Consumerism Withdrawal Syndrome.

MUST KEEP CONSUMING BUYING WHATEVER :eek:

SHOP 'TIL I DROP :eek:

BORN 2 BUY and THEN I DIE :eek:

I know the feeling. I just did an Entertainment System replacement a few weeks ago, new TV, new receiver, Mac Mini, and upcoming :apple: TV, so I'm in a pause.

...that is, until the 8-core :D

[cadratin]

Have you seen that?
http://www.macbidouille.com/articles/227/
There is no translation for the moment, but you can see they have used two Xeon X5355 in a MacPro, tests are following…
Let's hope Apple will begin production soon! :D

[patrick0brien]

Here's another, from the English side.

Linkypoo (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2007-02-11/#6417)

[ffakr]

At least two other sited demo'ed CoreQuad processors in the Mac Pro last year. This is kind of old news. As I recall, someone tried this out with 2 QuadCore Xeons when the chips were still engineering samples. We're talking last fall. Yes, it looks like the MacPros have been ready for Quads for a long time.

The issues holding this back are classic Apple.
-Quad Cores use more power.. A 2.66GHz Quad Core has max typical thermals of 120W. The now-silent Mac Pro wouldn't be silent any more with dual 80W or 120W chips in it.
- Quad Cores are expensive/clock tick. Quad Cores cost about the same as Dual cores if you compare them a speed bin apart (from each chip's sort). This is actually two speed bins if you look at raw clock. Let me explain.. Top bin for Quad is 2.66, lower bin is 2.33. Top bin for Dual core is 3.0, lower is 2.66, 2nd lower is 2.33. The cost of a dual 3.0 is very similar to a quad 2.33. The 2.33 is only one off top end for a Quad but it's clocked two bins lower in the Dual speed bins. This is a perception issue really (and Apple's huge on Perception). It might be tough marketing to push a dual-quad 2.33GHz machine for the same price (or slightly more) than a dual-dual 3.0GHz machine. This is doubly true when a large portion of Apple's core market will get more work done from the Dual-Dual (2d artists and even many 3D artists will do better with 4 faster cores for a while.. at least until 8 core workstations become common enough for more software optimization).

I suspect that Apple will release Quad core cpus in this generation of chips but I can't guess when. I suspect that they won't replace any of the current models. I suspect that Apple will slide out another dual-quad configuration or two but I don't know how they'll market it.
I also suspect well see one dual-quad XServe.
This is all just guessing though.

ffakr.

[Multimedia]

I suspect that Apple will release Quad core cpus in this generation of chips but I can't guess when. I suspect that they won't replace any of the current models. I suspect that Apple will slide out another dual-quad configuration or two but I don't know how they'll market it.

I also suspect well see one dual-quad XServe.

This is all just guessing though.I agree it will only be in addition to the current lineup. My guess - not prediction - is they'll be ready by April 16th at NAB. I might want to wait until it ships with Leopard and iLife '07. But if these new rumors Leopard will ship in March are true, then all should be good to go by NAB anyway. Here's hoping. :)

FYI - I just started a new thread for the Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3345230#post3345230) over in the Digital Video section of special interests for anyone who's interested. It's out there for only $1136.31 (http://www.provantage.com/sony-hdrhc7~7SNYF007.htm) by the way.

[Macinposh]

My guess - not prediction - is they'll be ready by April 16th at NAB.

But if these new rumors Leopard will ship in March are true, then all should be good to go by NAB anyway. Here's hoping. :)



Well, if we want a guessing game,mine is this:

Octo will be out when Leotard will be out.

Reason?

Apple will propably include Blue-Ray into the octo (well,it being a video authoring tool amongst others..) but there is practically no support to BR apart from toast.
So, with leopard,it could implement the first tools to handle that media, both recording and playback.

I cant se apple releasing one before other, both are allready late,so they prolly will push both out simultaneusly to try to make a splash.



My 1 €.

[Rocketman]

Here is what you need to make your wishes come true gents:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37562

Rocketman

[Multimedia]

Here is what you need to make your wishes come true gents:

the INQUIRER:
Intel pulls 45 nanometre chips into 1H 07 (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37562)Even if true, I wouldn't wait past Dual Clovertown with Leopard & iLife'07 to buy. :rolleyes: At best it will still be late Summer anyway.

[mwswami]

According to the Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37614), AMD's latest graphics board R600XTX is coming soon to a Mac near you.

"We can now reveal to you that the board you have been seeing around the web is actually a specific design which has only one customer right now. The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode."


http://www.theinquirer.net/images/articles/R600XTX.jpg


"The big R600XTX card codenamed Dragons head is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) and SIs (System Integretor) card only. The card should be launched in March and will be available at the same month but rather late march than early"

This could also mean that the Mac Pro upgrade is coming in March. :D

[BiikeMike]

I hope they are a more trustworthy site than the Enquirer with an E :D

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/

[Multimedia]

According to the Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37614), AMD's latest graphics board R600XTX is coming soon to a Mac near you.

"We can now reveal to you that the board you have been seeing around the web is actually a specific design which has only one customer right now. The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode."


http://www.theinquirer.net/images/articles/R600XTX.jpg


"The big R600XTX card codenamed Dragons head is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) and SIs (System Integretor) card only. The card should be launched in March and will be available at the same month but rather late march than early"

This could also mean that the Mac Pro upgrade is coming in March. :DI think you mean ATI not AMD. Although I know AMD now owns ATI, can we please keep using the ATI company name to identify their cards? I am partial to ATI cards since they support rotation and NVIDEA doesn't on Macs.

This card looks like overkill for video work. But if it's the only way I can avoid any NVIDEA cards, I will probably go that way. I use a rotated 1600x1200 20" monitor as my home screen and having gotten used to it in portrait mode since I bought the ATI Radeon X1900 GT for last gen PCIe G5 PowerMacs, I don't want to give up rotation capability ever again.I believe AMD will soon start branding the ATI cards as AMD. So we all have to get used to the new name ...Do you have any imperical evidence this will be the case? I like the implicaiton we get 8-core Mac Pro next month just in time for NAB's Final Cut Studio 6.

[mwswami]

I think you mean ATI not AMD. Although I know AMD now owns ATI, can we please keep using the ATI company name to identify their cards? I am partial to ATI cards since they support rotation and NVIDEA doesn't on Macs.I believe AMD will soon start branding the ATI cards as AMD. So we all have to get used to the new name ...

[Wild-Bill]

Now THAT is one serious card!

http://www.theinquirer.net/images/articles/R600XTX.jpg

Looks like I will be waiting till March to get the Mac Pro now...... Man, the Mac Pro will be just that much more over-the-top with one of these cards installed!

I CANNOT WAIT !!!

Hmm - I wonder if you'll be able to buy the Mac version directly from ATI/AMD. If that's the case, I could get the Mac Pro sooner and then slap one of these in when they offer it.

I have been waiting since before Christmas to buy a Mac Pro. The waiting has got to stop soon!

[elbirth]

Hmm - I wonder if you'll be able to buy the Mac version directly from ATI/AMD. If that's the case, I could get the Mac Pro sooner and then slap one of these in when they offer it.

I have been waiting since before Christmas to buy a Mac Pro. The waiting has got to stop soon!
Yeah, I'm hoping this will be the case as well. I was extremely close to buying a Mac Pro back in August when they were announced, but managed to keep myself from doing so for fear of another 1st generation Apple product (I've had a lot of problems with my MacBook Pro which is now exactly 1 year old).
I might would delay even further a couple more weeks if I could get one of these pre-installed, but it wouldn't be an issue at all for me if I could just slap one in there myself later. I have no problems messing around inside a computer since I build Windows/Linux computers.

In fact, the more I think about it, having a higher end card might not really be much of what I need, since I mainly just put stress on the CPU and RAM, not so much the video card (unless I were to dual boot Windows and do some gaming)

[BiikeMike]

I just wish this damn waiting would stop already! I WANT MY MAC PRO! Its becoming more apparant that I need one the more work I've been doing in FCP with my MacBook Pro. But I can't justify buying one today knowing that in just a month or three there will be updates!

[Lord Nerdos]

I'm ordering TODAY!!! I have to get my life back. I spend all day long on the web surfing for any clues as to when the 8 core is coming out. My productivity at work has gone downhill and I'm sure that any moment now I'm going to get called in by the boss to ask me why I spend all day on this "macrumors" site...;)

We all waited for Steve's keynote, in anxious anticipation of a refresh for the apple store but all we got was a phone that won't be on sale for another few months...:rolleyes:

I'm getting my mac pro today. My powerbook rev A 12" has done me proud over the last four years. If the octocore comes out tomorrow then so be it. I have had enough of this waiting. I NEED a new computer now.:D

By the way, in Japan, there is a special offer on the education store that you get a free ipod nano 2GB (or the cashback alternative if you get another ipod) on all models except the mac mini. It ends in the middle of May. Read into it what you may. I have had enough of predictions and fortune telling. :rolleyes:

So a 2.66 mac pro with the Nvidea card (for now at least) it is to be!

I'll be saying goodbye to these forums for a while. See you when the "when's the 16 core going to be released?" threads start up!!! Sayonara!!!

[Rocketman]

I'm ordering TODAY!!! I have to get my life back. I spend all day long on the web surfing for any clues as to when the 8 core is coming out. My productivity at work has gone downhill and I'm sure that any moment now I'm going to get called in by the boss to ask me why I spend all day on this "macrumors" site...;)

We all waited for Steve's keynote, in anxious anticipation of a refresh for the apple store but all we got was a phone that won't be on sale for another few months...:rolleyes:

I'm getting my mac pro today. My powerbook rev A 12" has done me proud over the last four years. If the octocore comes out tomorrow then so be it. I have had enough of this waiting. I NEED a new computer now.:D

By the way, in Japan, there is a special offer on the education store that you get a free ipod nano 2GB (or the cashback alternative if you get another ipod) on all models except the mac mini. It ends in the middle of May. Read into it what you may. I have had enough of predictions and fortune telling. :rolleyes:

So a 2.66 mac pro with the Nvidea card (for now at least) it is to be!

I'll be saying goodbye to these forums for a while. See you when the "when's the 16 core going to be released?" threads start up!!! Sayonara!!!

Your post and experience is evidence you should never wait, but go with what is available TODAY, and amortize it starting sooner so IF something exceptionally cool is released you can jusify buying it on the basis the "old" machine delivered excepional value and also has pretty high resale value.

Rocketman

[MacSamurai]

rumor spotted at http://www.looprumors.com/article.php?new-mac-pro-redesign,762623722 apparently new mac pro design woot

[BiikeMike]

rumor spotted at http://www.looprumors.com/article.php?new-mac-pro-redesign,762623722 apparently new mac pro design woot


Next Tuesday maybe?

[yipster222]

We can all stop waiting and buy the Mac Pro and gut the slower cpu and ebay them. We can then do a group buy of the quads (x5355) and drop them into the socket.

Mac Pro 3.0 - $3298.00 Standard Configs
Mac Pro 2.0 - $2200.00 Standard Configs

Xeon X5355 - $2430.00 2 x $1215.00 (newegg)

Xeon 5130 - $600.00 2 x $300.00 (ebay)
Xeon 5160 - $1400.00 2 x $700.00 (ebay)

Mac Pro 3.0 - $4328
Mac Pro 2.0 - $4030

I think Apple is going to bypass the 65nm Clovertown and go towards the 45nm Peryn. Just the fact the chip will run too hot. Maybe Apple can design some type of water cooling system that can cool the chips faster than air cooling.

[Multimedia]

rumor spotted at LoopRumors: New MacPro Redesign? (http://www.looprumors.com/article.php?new-mac-pro-redesign,762623722) apparently new mac pro design wootNice tidbit. Since I was going to wait for Leopard to ship with it anyway, this seems like the logical thing for Apple to do. Waiting impatiently. :(We can all stop waiting and buy the Mac Pro and gut the slower cpu and ebay them. We can then do a group buy of the quads (x5355) and drop them into the socket.

Mac Pro 3.0 - $3298.00 Standard Configs
Mac Pro 2.0 - $2200.00 Standard Configs

Xeon X5355 - $2430.00 2 x $1215.00 (newegg)

Xeon 5130 - $600.00 2 x $300.00 (ebay)
Xeon 5160 - $1400.00 2 x $700.00 (ebay)

Mac Pro 3.0 - $4328
Mac Pro 2.0 - $4030

I think Apple is going to bypass the 65nm Clovertown and go towards the 45nm Peryn. Just the fact the chip will run too hot. Maybe Apple can design some type of water cooling system that can cool the chips faster than air cooling.Count me OUT of YOUR "WE". Without Stoakley-Seaburg (http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=1) doing the above will be a waste of money + Apple will charge less than that WITH Stoakley-Seaburg. Who here wants to break their warranty (and possibly their brand new Mac Pro) the day they buy a 4 core to do an 8 core upgrade themselves? I reckon nobody.

I don't care if they do or don't bypass Clovertown. Whatever 8 core they release first I will buy. I'm not going to wait for perfection when almost perfection is shipping.

[Habusho]

I wish I had some idea of how they're updating their displays. Maybe Led backlighting better specs. They just updated their ACDs a few months ago though.

[elbirth]

That link mentioned that this rumored redesigned Mac Pro will be smaller and the cooling will direct hot air out of the top.

I don't know about anyone else, but unless they do something really great (and the rumor is actually somehow true) I highly dislike the idea of both of those changes. While I wouldn't mind a smaller tower, I actually really like the current size. If they make it smaller, it seems like it'll potentially hurt its capacity for hard drives, which is a huge negative to a smaller design for me.

Plus, the way I'll have it positioned in my setup, having it direct the hot air out of the top would be just annoying. I've got a few external hard drives that stack on top of each other, and I'd prefer to have them sit on top of the tower to not only save desk space, but also to keep the cables in a smaller area and not as messy.


I don't know... I'm not going to get worried about it until I see what Apple is *actually* going to offer. I hope they don't do something stupid like this, but if they do, I guess I'll have to live with it if I want an octo core.

[BiikeMike]

Elbirth, I agree. I don't think exhaust out the top is a good idea. I have a ton of stuff on top of my current tower. Modem, Wireless router, Vonage box, and some other stuff I can't think of right now. all kinds of stuff I need, but is just ugly and doesnt need to be on the desk!

As for a smaller tower, as long as it has the same capacity of stuff, i'll be fine with it, but if not, that would suck!

Guess we'll all just have to wait and see....... come on Apple, show us your cards already!

[psychofreak]

Next Tuesday maybe?

Along with the PowerBo [/realises that people who bring this up are annoying]

[DrGruv1]

don't know who to ask... i see that there are a lot of video people here.
i am a teacher and a semi - regular poster ;)

i won a tech grant and can choose from the following cams:

which do you like and why?
what would be easy enough for jr. high kids to use?
which might be more reliable? hd? disk?

Sony - Handycam High-Definition Camcorder with 30GB Hard Drive HDR-SR1
30GB hard drive; 10x optical/80x digital zoom; image stabilization; 3.5" widescreen LCD monitor; digital still mode


Sony - Handycam High-Definition DVD Camcorder HDR-UX1
records directly to DL DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-R/RW; 10x optical/80x digital zoom; image stabilization; 3.5" widescreen LCD monitor; digital still mode


Sony - High-Definition MiniDV 2.1MP Handycam Camcorder HDR-HC5 10x optical/80x digital zoom; SteadyShot stabilization; real-time HD codec engine; Super NightShot infrared system


Sony - 3.2MP Handycam DVD Camcorder HDR-UX7
Records directly to DL DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-R/RW; 10x optical/20x digital zoom; optical image stabilization; 2.7" widescreen LCD monitor; digital still mode


Sony - High-Definition MiniDV 3.2MP Handycam Camcorder HDR-HC7 10x optical/20x digital zoom; SteadyShot optical stabilization; real-time HD codec engine; Super NightShot infrared system

[Multimedia]

don't know who to ask... i see that there are a lot of video people here.
i am a teacher and a semi - regular poster ;)

i won a tech grant and can choose from the following cams:

which do you like and why?
what would be easy enough for jr. high kids to use?
which might be more reliable? hd? disk?

Sony - Handycam High-Definition Camcorder with 30GB Hard Drive HDR-SR1
30GB hard drive; 10x optical/80x digital zoom; image stabilization; 3.5" widescreen LCD monitor; digital still modeNO. AVCHD HDD Compression blows and getting that stream to be editable in anything is a nightmare. No FireWire connection from the HDD in the camera to your Macs.Sony - Handycam High-Definition DVD Camcorder HDR-UX1
records directly to DL DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-R/RW; 10x optical/80x digital zoom; image stabilization; 3.5" widescreen LCD monitor; digital still modeNO. AVCHD Compression blows and getting that stream to be editable in anything is a nightmare. Also will be very limited time recording on very expensive DL Mini DVD+R media.Sony - High-Definition MiniDV 2.1MP Handycam Camcorder HDR-HC5 10x optical/80x digital zoom; SteadyShot stabilization; real-time HD codec engine; Super NightShot infrared systemNO. Lower pixel count sensor is 52&#37; smaller than the HC7 and no manual audio gain so you would not be able to teach multiple audio input techniques.Sony - 3.2MP Handycam DVD Camcorder HDR-UX7
Records directly to DL DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-R/RW; 10x optical/20x digital zoom; optical image stabilization; 2.7" widescreen LCD monitor; digital still modeNO. This is the worst of the lot as it's not even High Definition.Sony - High-Definition MiniDV 3.2MP Handycam Camcorder HDR-HC7 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278617) 10x optical/20x digital zoom; SteadyShot optical stabilization; real-time HD codec engine; Super NightShot infrared system100% YES With Absolute Metaphysical Certainty. :p NO DOUBT.

Sony - High-Definition MiniDV 3.2MP Handycam Camcorder HDR-HC7 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278617) 10x optical/20x digital zoom; SteadyShot optical stabilization; real-time HD codec engine; Super NightShot infrared system The above two links take you to our HC7 specific thread here at MacRumors Forums.

Also go read the Sony HDV Info Website for a whole gaggle of HC7 Specific threads (http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=45). You can download a PDF of the HC7 manual with this link (http://hdr-hc7.info/HDRHC5.pdf).

And here is the Sony HDR-HC7 Hi-Def Camcorder Community website complete with forum (http://hdr-hc7.info/). A collaborative website for HC7 owners and potential buyers.

Rather than muddy up this thread with your questions, please put them to us over at the HC7 thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278617). Thanks. The whys are many and obvious. All the other choices you pose above are vastly inferior choices to the HC7.

Also Download the Spec Comparison Chart Among Top Sony FX1 - FX7 - HC5 - HC7 HDV Camcorders here (http://hdr-hc7.info/Comparison10.pdf).

[Lord Nerdos]

What's the difference between the new mac pro design and rumors about mac updates?

One blows hot air out of the top and the other just blows hot air.:p

My mac pro 2.66 is on its way. :D

[BiikeMike]

What's the difference between the new mac pro design and rumors about mac updates?

One blows hot air out of the top and the other just blows hot air.:p

My mac pro 2.66 is on its way. :D


I'm starting to think the same thing!


Congrats on the new 'puter!

[kfleung]

What's the difference between the new mac pro design and rumors about mac updates?

One blows hot air out of the top and the other just blows hot air.:p

My mac pro 2.66 is on its way. :D


I'm using the same Mac Pro 2.66 with ATI display option and 4G of FB-DIMM. It's winter now in Hong Kong and I placed my Mac so that its butt is facing my legs. Two columns of warm air blowing from the Power Supply and ATI-Heater exhaust vent respectively. Then a hot air blowing from the main fan vent port. I guessed the FB-DIMM DDR2 RAM are the hottest perhaps, even hotter than the Intel Dual-core Woodies. It keeps my feet warm all the way. Perhaps I have to rotate the Mac by 180 deg. during Summer so that It suck cold air through my leg into the Mac. Not a bad idea, it save me an electric fan or heater plus an air-cleaner !

[Multimedia]

What's the difference between the new mac pro design and rumors about mac updates?

One blows hot air out of the top and the other just blows hot air.:p

My mac pro 2.66 is on its way. :DHe canceled! lol. :eek: :p Good job LN. You made a very smart choice. :cool: :D

Welcome home buddy. ;)

[Lord Nerdos]

The funniest thing was that when I got the confirmation of the (now cancelled) order it said "mac pro, cto", which I read as "mac pro, octo" in my excitable state:p
Good sense triumphed over impatience. I realised that I didn't want to shell out all that yen for a machine that was already several months old. For better or for worse I'm with you guys to the bitter end...
June 11th or April 16th, I'll be counting down the days... :rolleyes:

[arkitect]

I have to say I admire your willpower!

I waited all through December — in vain as it turned out — for an updated MacPro at MacWorld.

As soon as the Apple site came online again after Steve's keynote, I ordered a refurb MP 2.66. Nice fat discount and they delivered next day (ha! of course I had to wait a damn week for the Dell 24" display:rolleyes: ) 4gigs of RAM from Crucial and a couple 500GB HDDs and it is flying!

What a gorgeous machine! It does all I throw at it and I just can't seem to max it out ever. Like a Bentley doing 200MPH — certainly the best :apple: product I have ever owned. Sometimes I just open it up to look at the insides :p Hmmmm. Sounds a bit fetishistic :D

Anyway, my plan is to "sell and upgrade" when the next Octo MacPros come out.

Personally, I just couldn't face another 6 months of uncertainty! :o :)

But first, roll on Adobe CS3… all this Illustrator crashing is maddening.

The funniest thing was that when I got the confirmation of the (now cancelled) orderFor better or for worse I'm with you guys to the bitter end...
June 11th or April 16th, I'll be counting down the days... :rolleyes:

[Wild-Bill]

I'm holding out as well. What is troubling though is the recent news that ATI has fallen behind schedule on their newest video card based on the R600 core. Originally due out this month, it won't see the light of day until MAY now.

This means that Apple is either going to a) push back the Mac Pro refresh timeline to coincide with ATI's new flagship card, b) choose the nVidia 8800GTX or c) leave the outdated and outperformed X1950XT in there.

[kromekat]

I am still holding on, but I confess, it's getting hard - first there were rumours of machines last November, then January and finally, Feb 20th - but as usual, nothing transpired! :]

I hope they release upgrades soon - even a better quad Xeon would work for me - I can't help thinking the Octo Mac is just a pipe dream at the moment.

Adam

[Wild-Bill]

I am still holding on, but I confess, it's getting hard - first there were rumours of machines last November, then January and finally, Feb 20th - but as usual, nothing transpired! :]

I hope they release upgrades soon - even a better quad Xeon would work for me - I can't help thinking the Octo Mac is just a pipe dream at the moment.

Adam


......and I don't even want the oco-core. I want it to lower the prices of the quad core configurations.

I can see it now..... Brand new Mac Pro with an nVidia 8800GTX in there, additional RAM from Crucial, my 74 gig Raptor, 500 gig Seagate, and 400 gig Western Digital from my PC, Leopard, iLife/iWork 07, and the new version of Logic.

I cannot wait ! :apple: ! I need to figure out what display to go with. Right now I am running two Dell 1900FP 19" LCD's. These guys are a little long in the tooth, with 25ms response time. i want a nice 23 or 24 inch for the Mac Pro, and would take one of my 19's and put it in portait mode for web viewing. The other 19" will be sold. I'm thinking the Dell 2407 might fit the bill. Supposedly the revision A04's that are hitting the street now are S-IPS.
I heard some rumors about new display tech we should be seeing industry-wide. I think it has something to do with LED backlighting or something. But who knows when they will come out and how much they will co$t. Certainly not going to buy an ACD. Apple charges WAY too much for their displays.

/end rambling :apple:

[iW00t]

Up to date configurations from Apple in 2007?

[Umbongo]

......and I don't even want the oco-core. I want it to lower the prices of the quad core configurations.

You're going to be in for some disappointment I think.

[elbirth]

I'm thinking the Dell 2407 might fit the bill. Supposedly the revision A04's that are hitting the street now are S-IPS.


I have a 2407WFP running as a secondary display on my 15" MacBook Pro and absolutely love it. I very highly recommend this LCD.
Once I get a Mac Pro (hopefully 8-core, but might end up going with a quad core if the octo is much higher in cost than the current quads) I'll be getting 2 more to give me a triple display setup. It's gonna be great

[Multimedia]

I have a 2407WFP running as a secondary display on my 15" MacBook Pro and absolutely love it. I very highly recommend this LCD.
Once I get a Mac Pro (hopefully 8-core, but might end up going with a quad core if the octo is much higher in cost than the current quads) I'll be getting 2 more to give me a triple display setup. It's gonna be greatI love my 4 screen setup on the G5 Quad:

Far Left: Home Screen with Menu Bar 1200 wide x 1600 high Dell 2001FP Rotated thanks to the ATI Radeon X1900 I added that supports rotation that Dell monitors so easily do.

Left Center: 2560 wide x 1600 high Dell 3005FPW also running on the ATI add in.
Right Center: 1920 wide x 1200 high Dell 2405FPW
Far Right: 1920 wide x 1080 high Samsung LN-S4095D 8ms LCD HDTV DVI to VGA adaptor to VGA input on Samsung leaving both HDMI inputs still free for more later this year - like from the 8 core Mac Pro for example. :p

Once you get used to having 4 screens, one of which is a native 1920 x 1080P capable HDTV, you'll NEVER go back to one or two. :)

Spoke with Samsung today and the plan is for the T series ('07) coming out this Summer to be 6ms latency and Auto Progressive up convert as the 1080i broadcasts hit the tuner. Sweet.

Better still I wonder who will be first to put two ATSC tuners inside with TwinView and PiP like the good old days.

[PmattF]

Once you get used to having 4 screens, one of which is a native 1920 x 1080P capable HDTV, you'll NEVER go back to one or two. :)

Does the Apple paradigm of having a single menu bar for all apps start to get annoying with that much screen real estate? Seems like it would take a while to move your mouse all the way across.

Even with just a single 1920x1200, I sometimes think the Windows model of a menu bar right there on each application window makes more sense.

[Multimedia]

Does the Apple paradigm of having a single menu bar for all apps start to get annoying with that much screen real estate? Seems like it would take a while to move your mouse all the way across.

Even with just a single 1920x1200, I sometimes think the Windows model of a menu bar right there on each application window makes more sense.No. I am a 22 year long user of Kensington Turbo Mice. I have MouseWorks Fine Tuning "When Moving the Mouse Quickly" preference set on maximum "Fast". So all I have to do is make a major spin of the Cue Ball to the left to get back to the menu bar. Plus I know a lot of keystroke shortcuts so I don't need the menus as much as some may. :)

[elbirth]

I love my 4 screen setup on the G5 Quad:

Far Left: Home Screen with Menu Bar 1200 wide x 1600 high Dell 2001FP Rotated thanks to the ATI Radeon X1900 I added that supports rotation that Dell monitors so easily do.

Left Center: 2560 wide x 1600 high Dell 3005FPW also running on the ATI add in.
Right Center: 1920 wide x 1200 high Dell 2405FPW
Far Right: 1920 wide x 1080 high Samsung LN-S4095D 8ms LCD HDTV DVI to VGA adaptor to VGA input on Samsung leaving both HDMI inputs still free for more later this year - like from the 8 core Mac Pro for example. :p

Once you get used to having 4 screens, one of which is a native 1920 x 1080P capable HDTV, you'll NEVER go back to one or two. :)

Spoke with Samsung today and the plan is for the T series ('07) coming out this Summer to be 6ms latency and Auto Progressive up convert as the 1080i broadcasts hit the tuner. Sweet.

Better still I wonder who will be first to put two ATSC tuners inside with TwinView and PiP like the good old days.

wow, that sounds like a really cool setup! When I first saw the Mac Pros announced and saw that I could get 2 video cards directly from Apple and have hookups for 4 displays, I immediately considered four 24" displays... however, I like the idea of having it more uniform on either side of me (one in the center with one on either side... I could go with five displays, but having 2 on either side would be a bit much :p )

The 24" Dell is an awesome monitor and seems to be the sweet spot for comfort level for me. The 30" is great, but feels a bit too big for my daily work, which is internet-based. Right now my 15" MBP screen and 24" Dell are both completely full for 8 hours a day with almost no desktop showing through (I have 4 Firefox windows--each with anywhere from 3-10+ tabs--, a chat window, textedit, and Soulver (calculator) showing at all times because these are the necessities for my job. Having 3 screens would help me feel MUCH less cramped, but right now I'm thinking having a fourth would just be overkill and not get used enough to warrant the cost.

Of course, that's subject to change once I have the 3-screen setup running :D
I'd love a 30" for when I'm post processing photographs, but for the time being that's just a hobby.

[BiikeMike]

I'm starting to get kind of angry/worried with Apple. They usually roll out upgrades like clockwork, and we haven't seen anything new ON THE MARKET from them in quite a while. :apple: TV, delayed, :apple: iPhone, not even planned to come out for almost 6 mos after it was unveiled. New Pro computers? No one has any idea. New OS? Again, no one has any idea.

Their advertising campaign just gave everyone false hopes about 2007 so far. We are almost a quarter into the year, and we have gotten....... multi colored iPods??

All i'm saying is they better drop a bomb soon, because they seem to be falling behind. I've got my money saved for a new desktop and screen(s), but i'm pretty dissapointed we haven't seen anything about them. They unveiled the damn iPhone 6 mos early, why can't they give us a bone and at least give us a timeframe for new machines or 10.5?

[Multimedia]

wow, that sounds like a really cool setup! When I first saw the Mac Pros announced and saw that I could get 2 video cards directly from Apple and have hookups for 4 displays, I immediately considered four 24" displays... however, I like the idea of having it more uniform on either side of me (one in the center with one on either side... I could go with five displays, but having 2 on either side would be a bit much :p )

The 24" Dell is an awesome monitor and seems to be the sweet spot for comfort level for me. The 30" is great, but feels a bit too big for my daily work, which is internet-based. Right now my 15" MBP screen and 24" Dell are both completely full for 8 hours a day with almost no desktop showing through (I have 4 Firefox windows--each with anywhere from 3-10+ tabs--, a chat window, textedit, and Soulver (calculator) showing at all times because these are the necessities for my job. Having 3 screens would help me feel MUCH less cramped, but right now I'm thinking having a fourth would just be overkill and not get used enough to warrant the cost.

Of course, that's subject to change once I have the 3-screen setup running :D
I'd love a 30" for when I'm post processing photographs, but for the time being that's just a hobby.Just discovered the Gateway FPD2485W 24" Widescreen High-Definition LCD Flat-Panel Display (http://www.gateway.com/accessories/product/1540522R.php?seg=hm) tonight. This may be a better choice than the Dell now.

[ortuno2k]

I'm starting to get kind of angry/worried with Apple. They usually roll out upgrades like clockwork, and we haven't seen anything new ON THE MARKET from them in quite a while. :apple: TV, delayed, :apple: iPhone, not even planned to come out for almost 6 mos after it was unveiled. New Pro computers? No one has any idea. New OS? Again, no one has any idea.

Their advertising campaign just gave everyone false hopes about 2007 so far. We are almost a quarter into the year, and we have gotten....... multi colored iPods??

All i'm saying is they better drop a bomb soon, because they seem to be falling behind. I've got my money saved for a new desktop and screen(s), but i'm pretty dissapointed we haven't seen anything about them. They unveiled the damn iPhone 6 mos early, why can't they give us a bone and at least give us a timeframe for new machines or 10.5?

I feel the same way about this, leaving us all Mac users with no idea about Leopard, iWork & iLife '07 was pretty dissapointing to some, myself at least. I remember when they used to release iPods every other week, and iMacs too. Mac Mini's haven't gotten an update in...what, a year? They're stretching the time between updates, and I hope this is good.

My girlfriend's rationale is that this (what Apple is doing) is marketing itself, by NOT doing any marketing..oxymoron?

[Multimedia]

I feel the same way about this, leaving us all Mac users with no idea about Leopard, iWork & iLife '07 was pretty dissapointing to some, myself at least. I remember when they used to release iPods every other week, and iMacs too. Mac Mini's haven't gotten an update in...what, a year? They're stretching the time between updates, and I hope this is good.

My girlfriend's rationale is that this (what Apple is doing) is marketing itself, by NOT doing any marketing..oxymoron?Your girlfriend's a genius. It won't be much longer. By summer the whole line will have been refreshed. :)

[Multimedia]

Well gang it's down to the last stretch now. We've got our daylight savings time, our April 15th Apple press conference scheduled (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=282167) and our Wednesday April 18 Sixth Annual FCPUG Venetian Hotel SuperMeet tickets on sale now (http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2007.html). I'm remaining skeptical Leopard will be shipping before May or even June. But that's mostly so I can be pleasantly surprised if it happens sooner. ;) Are we having fun telling anyone who will listen that we're gonna get an 8 core Mac Pro and they should too? Only thing keeping me from going stir crazy is the new Sony HDR-HC7 HDV camcorder (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278617) I'm in love with. Been busy feeding that thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278617) I started a month ago that's become a run away hit in the Digital Video section of Special Interests with 174 posts and over 8,500 views. :)

What's everyone else doing to keep their minds off the 8 core anticipation? :eek:

[kromekat]

What's everyone else doing to keep their minds off the 8 core anticipation? :eek:

Hypnotherapy and Prozac.

8}

...getting the same fever I experienced whilst waiting for my Dual 2.5 G5 nearly 3 years ago - twitchy and checking the Apple store and here for updates that never happen!...

[pknz]

What's everyone else doing to keep their minds off the 8 core anticipation? :eek:

I read the 33 pages of the Mac Pro arrived thread, and keep s******ing everytime I see "100% sure 8 core Mac Pro in January" quotes by Multimedia.

[Multimedia]

I read the 33 pages of the Mac Pro arrived thread, and keep s******ing everytime I see "100&#37; sure 8 core Mac Pro in January" quotes by Multimedia.I was 100% sure it would be January until I read this in November (http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=1). Would you mind posting a link to the post please? I'm no longer 100% sure of when - only hoping April 15 not sure. In November I gave up being 100% sure of any date. But I am now 100% sure it will be by September and 99% sure sooner. :) Isn't that conservative enough?http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/icons/posting.php_files/rotfl.gif

[Lord Nerdos]

How many more days to go..?
I live in fear that the octo-cores are not going to be out before June:eek: ... These mac pros have even started to make appearances in my dreams. April 4th? That date was in my dream... Could it be???:p
Anyway, what is for sure is that we will all look back fondly on our time waiting for these all powerful machines to appear - once we have them in our hands.
And some day in the future we shall tell children of how we debated whether anyone needed the power of an 8 core system, in much the same way as we debated whether anyone really needed all the power of a Commodore 64 vs the Spectrum 48k back in the good old days of sprites:D .
And those children will laugh until tears roll down their cherubic faces as they run off with their handheld gaming systems powered by something that will gigaflop more than any of today's supercomputers...
So that's how I'm passing the time until our beloved mac pro updates - whimsical musings;)

[Shaker]

Just to add more fuel to the new Mac Pro rumors:

http://news.google.com/nwshp?oe=UTF-...14283445&hl=en

[Raid]

Just to add more fuel to the new Mac Pro rumors:

http://news.google.com/nwshp?oe=UTF-...14283445&hl=enI think that's a bad link, it doesn't point to anything but headlines. :( I did a search though on "Mac Pro" in google news and they had a link to Macworld (http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?newsid=17447&pagtype=allchandate) talking about Apple using a more engery efficient Xeon processor. Is that what you were mentioning?

Also is it me or did this thread get bumped to a page 1 rumour? I could have sworn it's been page 2 for months.

[mwswami]

I think that's a bad link, it doesn't point to anything but headlines. :( I did a search though on "Mac Pro" in google news and they had a link to Macworld (http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?newsid=17447&pagtype=allchandate) talking about Apple using a more engery efficient Xeon processor. Is that what you were mentioning?

Also is it me or did this thread get bumped to a page 1 rumour? I could have sworn it's been page 2 for months.

Its unlikely we will see the low power Xeons on the Mac Pro, they make more sense on the high density servers.

[patrick0brien]

What's everyone else doing to keep their minds off the 8 core anticipation? :eek:

Job search.

[PtMD]

... really needed all the power of a Commodore 64 vs the Spectrum 48k ...

Don't start that again! I thought we all decided the Spectrum rulled it. :)

[Multimedia]

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70056&stc=1&d=1173732232
Also: This link to a UK Mac Pro Search result (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?find=mac+pro). So it might be tomorrow 'cause it's a Tuesday.

[osakans]

When I saw the post, I thought for sure it was a Photoshop markup, but then I tried the search myself at the UK web site and sure enough the quoted text referring to 8-core Macs is there! So it might be tomorrow 'cause it's a Tuesday.

[Redneck1089]

Man, an update is so welcome right now. I really need to replace my G4 dual 1 Ghz PowerMac. Can't wait... :D

[illustratorDavi]

Wow !! works here to...

..... somebodies getting the sack ;)

[Multimedia]

I guess it's fair to say we're all moving to the next 8-core thread here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=287010).

[Multimedia]

I like this thread much better because it has a lot of informational nutrition in it. The new one's 408 posts are all fluff and puff with little to no information about what 8-cores are good for. Anyone want to join me back here? :)

[patrick0brien]

-Multimedia

Still here.

Hear anything resulting from the premature posting in the UK last night?

[Multimedia]

-Multimedia

Still here.

Hear anything resulting from the premature posting in the UK last night?That thread for the UK goof-up is just a bunch of whiners who don't have a clue why we need 8 core Mac Pros and are in no position to buy one even if they did. I may have inadvertantly caused that thread by posting the screen shot above when I shouldn't have due to my ignorance about a rule here I am not at liberty to explain.

In any event, things are looking more like we won't have more info until the Adobe March 27th CS3 event and of course the Apple April 15 NAB press conference. Even then it's looking like end of April as the soonest anything will begin to be available for purchase. I'm certainly not going to buy anything that doesn't include Leopard and iLife '07 on-board are you?

[patrick0brien]

I'm certainly not going to buy anything that doesn't include Leopard and iLife '07 on-board are you?

-Multimedia

Well, I actually need two of these things.

Scary huh?

I've been needing one for a main home workgroup server, as well as 3D renterserver and FCP machine. If you look at my sig, you'll see the Quicksilver. That's what I have now. Not only has it hit the wall, but has buried itself about 3 feet into it at this point.

Now, Pythagoras, my Music is heading south, G5 iMac Rev A. It's the board.

So here's the plan. I'll get the Rev. B LAG 8-core with Leopard Server, 8gb RAM and, and live on that as the workstation and server. Then, six months later, probably at Rev C, buy another LAG 8-core. I'll replace the Rev B with the Rev C, move the Rev B. machine to the studio, swap the drives, and bingo. Seamless upgrade.

So yes, I'm waiting with severe interest.

And yes, fully intend to use the Server's XGrid features.

[BiikeMike]

Hey multimedia, I'm still here too :)

I'm waiting fo the updates too, I really need a new computer, and I would buy a Mac Pro now, but knowing my luck, they would release the new ones the next day.

I just started my own lighting design, photography, and production business, and I NEED the power of a Mac Pro with the UB of CS3 to do the stuff I do. I could not be more excited about the March 27th event unless they suprise us all and say they are going to be shipping the week after the event :)

I am not sure if I will need the octa-core Mac Pro, but i'd like to have it as an option. I'd also like to see what other little bumps they give the other machines, hopefully video cards :D After they announce the new machines, I'll probably wait for the benchmarks in CS3, LightRoom, FCP, and a few other programs I use to decide if I should go for the quad or octo.

[Multimedia]

I'm not making a prediction. But I won't be surprised if the next Mac Pros all have HDMI i/o built in. In fact this may be a new and consistent feature of all the 2007 post Leopard Mac refreshes. The new upcoming not quite yet shipping Panasonic AG-HSC1U 1/4" 3-CCD 16:9 AVCHD PROLINE™ Camcorder with HDMI Interface and 40GB SD Store Drive (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=109546&catGroupId=14571&surfModel=AG-HSC1U&displayTab=O) is coming out of the Broadcast/Business division and it has no FireWire port.

This is the first AVCHD camcorder I've seen that looks promising. It's tiny like an HC7 and yet it's got 3 1/4" CCDs and lists for only $2099. This kind of product may dictate either Apple puts HDMI i/o on all next gen Macs OR the Blackmagic Design Intensity PCIe cards are going to be selling like hotcakes.

Not predicting. But if it happens you can say you read it here first. :p

Link to Camcorderinfo.com's First Impression from February 5th (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Unveils-AG-HSC1U-First-AVCHD-Pro-Camcorder.htm). Boy did they ever manage to hide that well.

[Rod Rod]

I'm not making a prediction. But I won't be surprised if the next Mac Pros all have HDMI i/o built in. In fact this may be a new and consistent feature of all the 2007 post Leopard Mac refreshes. The new upcoming not quite yet shipping Panasonic AG-HSC1U 1/4" 3-CCD 16:9 AVCHD PROLINE™ Camcorder with HDMI Interface and 40GB SD Store Drive is coming out of the Broadcast/Business division and it has no FireWire port.

That camera's HDMI output would be for uncompressed video. Anyhow, it's very likely that the camera uses USB to transfer the video data.

HDMI would be useful for a live feed. But feeding recorded material by HDMI to capture with your Mac would be a great waste of time and resources. Just transfer the data as data and transcode to the trusty Apple Intermediate Codec.

I found another link. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Unveils-AG-HSC1U-First-AVCHD-Pro-Camcorder.htm

[Multimedia]

That camera's HDMI output would be for uncompressed video. The link you posted didn't work. Anyhow, it's very likely that the camera uses USB to transfer the video data.

HDMI would be useful for a live feed. But feeding recorded material by HDMI to capture with your Mac would be a great waste of time and resources. Just transfer the data as data and transcode to the trusty Apple Intermediate Codec.

Ok, I found the link. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Unveils-AG-HSC1U-First-AVCHD-Pro-Camcorder.htmI fixed that link. My bad. Wow did I ever overlook this for a 40 days. I'm embarrased. :o

Yes it's USB2 for data transfer. Or perhaps there'll be an adapter to get the data off even faster through the SD's native port.

[Rod Rod]

I fixed that link. My bad. Wow did I ever overlook this for a 40 days. I'm embarrased. :o

Yes it's USB2 for data transfer. Or perhaps there'll be an adapter to get the data off even faster through the SD's native port.

Thanks for fixing the link! I sort of doubt there'll be a special SD-port-using adapter, because to what would it adapt? The most likely candidate is USB2.

What would be a huge selling point for me is if this camera had time-of-day timecode, a.k.a. free run timecode. That would rock.

[Multimedia]

The AVCHD standard has a bit rate ceiling of around 24 Mbps, but to date it has only been implemented at bit rates up to 15 Mbps (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Unveils-AG-HSC1U-First-AVCHD-Pro-Camcorder.htm).Looks like AVCHD will never be as good as HDV due to it's current maximum bitrate ceiling of 24mbps - just short of HDV's bitrate of 25mbps or DVCPRO HD's even higher bitrate. This is getting confusing.:confused: :eek:

[Rod Rod]

Looks like AVCHD will never be as good as HDV due to it's current maximum bitrate ceiling of 24mbps - just short of HDV's bitrate of 25mbps or DVCPRO HD's even higher bitrate. This is getting confusing.:confused: :eek:

The bitrate thing doesn't denote quality. AVCHD has a theoretically better codec (H.264) than HDV (MPEG2). All the difference will be in the implementation. If AVCHD is done well with a great encoder chip in the camera, with all other things being equal (CCD/CMOS, optics, etc.), AVCHD should be higher quality than HDV.

DV's bitrate is 25mb/s but I prefer HDV.

[Multimedia]

The bitrate thing doesn't denote quality. AVCHD has a theoretically better codec (H.264) than HDV (MPEG2). All the difference will be in the implementation. If AVCHD is done well with a great encoder chip in the camera, with all other things being equal (CCD/CMOS, optics, etc.), AVCHD should be higher quality than HDV.

DV's bitrate is 25mb/s but I prefer HDV.While that sounds great, they are listing a recording rate of 88 minutes/4GB SDHC card vs. about 18 minutes of HVD on DV tape. That level of compresson seems like it's gotta be a LOT worse looking than any HDV could possably look doesn't it?

Wouldn't that be about 5mb/s? . :confused: :eek:

[BiikeMike]

OK, so on that camera, you can only record 4GB at a time, and then you have to transfer it to the external drive? that seems a bit......redundant to me! Why not just stick the drive in the camera?? Sure it would a a slight bit of weight and size, but for the convienience, wouldn't you give that up?

I'm not a big fan of the palm cams anyway. Multimedia, I know you are, but if I'm going to show up to a gig or a shoot, and I pull out that little thing, I'm gonna get some funny looks. I'd rather have a regular sized HD DV cam a la PC-170 style to have the feel of something solid I'm working with. But that's just me.

[JeffDM]

I'm not a big fan of the palm cams anyway. Multimedia, I know you are, but if I'm going to show up to a gig or a shoot, and I pull out that little thing, I'm gonna get some funny looks. I'd rather have a regular sized HD DV cam a la PC-170 style to have the feel of something solid I'm working with. But that's just me.

It looks more to me that he's into anything that gets the job done, big to small, at least that's my interpretation. I think a pro's tool chest can easily accomodate a few different sized cameras to fit the task.

If you want a PD-170 size camera, then I'd suggest looking at Canon's A1 or Sony's V1. I'd be careful to watch the brand, Sony has an A1 too, probably a bit too small for your desires.

[BiikeMike]

Thanks!

I have been looking at those, but with these new Mac Pros coming out, and all of my still photo equip, I'm not gonna have any money to spend on a Video camera!

I really want one though :)


(And I have read elsewhere that MM really likes the small cameras, cant find where though ;) )

[Multimedia]

It looks more to me that he's into anything that gets the job done, big to small, at least that's my interpretation. I think a pro's tool chest can easily accomodate a few different sized cameras to fit the task.

If you want a PD-170 size camera, then I'd suggest looking at Canon's A1 or Sony's V1. I'd be careful to watch the brand, Sony has an A1 too, probably a bit too small for your desires.I'm a documentarian. As such, the bigger the camera the harder the gig. For me it's about intimidation. Anything bigger than a TRV-900 size camera is perceived by my subjects as a real video camera that they don't want to be near. Only when I am down to the tiniest size do they ignore me or forget that a camera is in the room.

I have a Canon XL-1 - have had since the week it shipped. I hate it. Nothing could give me more trouble. What a headache. So I think my style of shooting is probably quite different than those here who are proponets of the camcorders that are bigger. BTW I started with the VX-1000 and wrote the first publsihed review of that camera for DV Magazine back in Fall of '95 - Published in February '96 issue. I shot with the VX-1000 for years until the Canon XL-1 shipped. My favorite DV Camera is the TRV-900. Works like a dream. Wore out the heads. So now you have an idea of why I like smallest possible.

I perceive both the Canon A-1 and Sony V1 as too big for my work. Those size cameras SCARE my subjects into silence or worse yet they yell "Turn that camera off!"

[Rocketman]

100&#37; YES With Absolute Metaphysical Certainty. :p NO DOUBT.

That might be a bit strong MM :)

The MacPro 8way did not arrive in January. The displays did not arrive in January.

It seems this thread is still going :) I wonder iof HDMI is going to be an I/O standard considering PCIe is now not only an I/O standard with external connector on planned Apple units, but also connectable to a solid state disc with maximal system I/O.

Rocketman

[Multimedia]

That might be a bit strong MM :)Perhaps. But he bought it. :D

Tiger Oxford: hyperbole |hīˈpərbəlē| noun. exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

[BiikeMike]

Hey Multimedia, if you hate your XL-1 so much, you should just sell it to me :cool:

[Unique Visuals]

I started to get a Mac Pro as my own christmas present. I then read here about the octocores and started drooling and have been lurking and reading everything new posted and can hardly wait. I am on an old G4 450 Mhz. I do a lot of photography work and custom graphics in photoshop and GraphicConverter. I also do 3D design work. I usually have many programs open and monitor my servers also I monitor my video chat services I run.
I am so tired of waiting on effects, renders or filters to process, not being able to send live vid and chat or to listen to the tunes served from my servers.
I should have bought a new machine long long ago.
What my worry with getting a brand new otco is if the thru-put is going to be much faster then a quad core thats cheaper and more bug free. I know it will be smoking compared to mine now. I want to get one the moment they are released but then caution makes me want to wait till the tests are published from independent sites.
___________________________
"Of all the things I've lost in my life, I miss my mind the most"
:confused:

[Multimedia]

Now I'm not predicting anything. Just reminding everyone we MIGHT get the 8 core announcement in conjunction with the April 15 11AM PT NAB Apple Event three weeks from exactly now. Let's hope for the best. Maybe we'll get lucky and Apple will throw us a bone. ;)

[Wild-Bill]

With NAB 15 April and the new ATI Radeons being launched on 23-24 April perhaps we will see those lovely cards shipping with the new Mac Pros.

[patrick0brien]

With NAB 15 April and the new ATI Radeons being launched on 23-24 April perhaps we will see those lovely cards shipping with the new Mac Pros.

-Wild-Bill

I thought the R600 was delayed..?

[Wild-Bill]

-Wild-Bill

I thought the R600 was delayed..?

I thought so too. Perhaps its going to just be a paper launch, not sure. But I read in the Inquirer that the launch is 23-24 April in Tunisia, Africa.

[Multimedia]

-Wild-Bill, I thought the R600 was delayed..?Would anyone care to explain and/or add links to what the R600 is all about. I don't normally track graphics roadmaps. Thanks. :)

[AppleMan101]

shouldnt this thread have been closed a looooong time ago?

[patrick0brien]

Would anyone care to explain and/or add links to what the R600 is all about. I don't normally track graphics roadmaps. Thanks. :)

-Multimedia

Well, in a nutshell, the R600 is due to become this year's prosumer "bichin'" video card. AMD/ATi is being very Apple-Like in their secrecy, but here are some clues...

Review Linkypoo (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/01/ati-r600-graphics-card-benchmarked-cruises-by-nvidias-geforce/)

Delay Explanation, and possible Physics rumor Linkypoo (http://www.techpowerup.com/?25870)

More tantalizing clues Linkypoo (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4595)

[ffakr]

-Multimedia

Well, in a nutshell, the R600 is due to become this year's prosumer "bichin'" video card. AMD/ATi is being very Apple-Like in their secrecy, but here are some clues...


The short of it is... It's late.. it's another DX 10 card.. it'll use DDR4 memory so it's currently beating Nvidia 8800GTX BUT they benchmarked it on pre-release Nvidia drives (Nvidia was way late with Vista support). Even with crappy Nvidia drivers, the ATI was 10% faster but it's going to cost more than 10% more. 10% advantage can easily disappear with driver optimizations. The 8800 is also massively parallel so it's likely DX9 games don't begin to take advantage of it.
I'm kind of unimpressed.

It'll be a great chip, Its cards will use nearly 300Watts !!, I'll never buy one.
Now, the 8800GTS is still a bitchin card and it can be had for about $270.

ffakr.

[ffakr]

Now I'm not predicting anything. Just reminding everyone we MIGHT get the 8 core announcement in conjunction with the April 15 11AM PT NAB Apple Event three weeks from exactly now. Let's hope for the best. Maybe we'll get lucky and Apple will throw us a bone. ;)

At this point, I'd be shocked if Apple doesn't ship quad-cores.
Intel has no supply problems, in fact they're going to be ramping up 45nm production lines soon.
NAB is also the one forum where Apple is prominent where they have the best audience for quad-core processors. HD Video editors will eat them up.
For pervasively threaded apps (like video editing software) users will see a significant performance jump even at slower clock speeds and the best price is, component costs will be the same for Apple (and hopefully for consumers).

Of course Multimedia knows most of this. ;-)

[BiikeMike]

How about this:

New 8-Cores this Tuesday to go with the new CS3, they come with a free 10.5 upgrade which is released at NAB, with FCP 6 and Extreme


:D

[Multimedia]

shouldnt this thread have been closed a looooong time ago?Nope. Not 'til the next REAL 8 core thread arrives. The FAKE UK snafu thread stemmed from a HACK. So this is still the Official 8 core thread until we get real news. :)

[BiikeMike]

Nope. Not 'til the next REAL 8 core thread arrives. The FAKE UK snafu thread stemmed from a HACK. So this is still the Official 8 core thread until we get real news. :)

Didn't that thread stem from an image you posted? Does that make you the HACK? :D:D;) :p

[Multimedia]

Didn't that thread stem from an image you posted? Does that make you the HACK? :D:D;) :pYeah that was before I knew it was against rules to post submision info on a thread. But this thread has a lot more useful information than that 24-hour verbal fart, don't you think? :)

[Gurutech]

Based on what I've seen about R600, you don't really need it. There is better alternative.
8800 is bit slower than R600, but it's not significant enough to justify massive power R600 requires (200+ W).
Also 8900 series is coming out sonner than you think.
I'm really disappointed.

[Multimedia]

Based on what I've seen about R600, you don't really need it. There is better alternative.
8800 is bit slower than R600, but it's not significant enough to justify massive power R600 requires (200+ W).
Also 8900 series is coming out sonner than you think.
I'm really disappointed.I just want Dual Dual Link ATI in ONE slot. I dont'/can't use a two slot hog card. Oh yeah they made the first slot a double wide slot. Ok. Anyway I gotta have ATI 'cause I ROTATE My monitors and nVidea is ANTI-Rotation on the Mac.

[kromekat]

How about this:

New 8-Cores this Tuesday to go with the new CS3, they come with a free 10.5 upgrade which is released at NAB, with FCP 6 and Extreme


:D

This had crossed my mind too (dreaming...) - 8-Cores announced from Apple alongside Adobe releasing CS3 on Tuesday the 27th!?

...probably not though :/

[MacsAttack]

I just want Dual Dual Link ATI in ONE slot. I dont'/can't use a two slot hog card. Oh yeah they made the first slot a double wide slot. Ok. Anyway I gotta have ATI 'cause I ROTATE My monitors and nVidea is ANTI-Rotation on the Mac.

*** Fires up Mac Pro - Stock 7300 NVidia card ***
*** System Preferences -> Displays -> Rotate -> 90 degrees ***
*** Rotates monitor 90 degrees to portrait mode ***

L
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:D

*** Rotates back to Landscape ***

You really shold keep up on the latest technology old bean :p

[Umbongo]

For a long while now the community seems to have been expecting 8 core mac pros every tuesday, and I have argued that despite some people's belief that they would be barely more expensive than the current pros, there were no indications this would be the case. However as we continue to see no release we move closer and closer to Intel's price cuts expected in July. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that Apple may be able to offer systems based on these prices even if we see a machine before the cuts due to their relationship with Intel.

Current Processor pricing:
Quad
X5355 2.66Ghz - $1172
E5345 2.33Ghz - $851

Dual
5160 3.00Ghz - $851
5150 2.66Ghz - $690
5140 2.33Ghz - $455
5130 2.00Ghz - $316

Future Processor pricing:
Quad
X5365 3.00Ghz - $1172
X5355 2.66Ghz - $744
E5345 2.33Ghz - $455
E5335 2.00Ghz - $316

Dual
I couldn't seem to find information on future woodcrest pricing, obviously cuts will come and I think you could match them to the shifts between clovertown current and future pricing.

So you can see that we could feasibly see an octo core 2.66Ghz Mac Pro at the same price the quad core is now if using these processor prices. Though I personally still have my doubts as the price is more likely to depend on what they can get away with rather than how much it costs to manufacture. It also should be noted in price discussions that the stock Mac Pro at $2500 is currently close to or below retail component prices.

[Multimedia]

This had crossed my mind too (dreaming...) - 8-Cores announced from Apple alongside Adobe releasing CS3 on Tuesday the 27th!?

...probably not though :/Apple is specifically not listed as one of the Event participants on the Adobe Event webcast page (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/launchevent/webcast/). The listed participants are HP, Intel, Nokia and Akamai.

I think Apple will want to let Adobe have this Tuesday to themselves. No point in mucking up the press with too many new products on the same day from competing software vendors.

[Thor74]

I have been waiting on the fence for a new Intel Mac Pro for the past 2 months now in anticipation for the latest edition from Apple. With the ADOBE Intel support now out of the way, what else could be holding Apple back from releasing a new (edited) mac pro line up? By the rough 6 month release calendar so many people here mention, isn't Apple like 2-3 months over that already? Sigh... I know a lot of posters here say to always buy for your immediate needs and the waiting game is kind of dumb, but a $2500+ purchase on a limited budget is hard for me to justify today on a 8 month old design. Especially when I am hoping for even more bang for my buck tomorrow... :confused:

[murfle]

With the ADOBE Intel support now out of the way, what else could be holding Apple back from releasing a new G5 mac pro line up?

I hope that was a typo...

[rloechner]

This had crossed my mind too (dreaming...) - 8-Cores announced from Apple alongside Adobe releasing CS3 on Tuesday the 27th!?

...probably not though :/

on the new apple/cs3 page in the second paragraph it says "Every new Mac features powerful dual-core or quad-core Intel processors...". Doesn't that sound like, you can get a mac with a quad-core processor?

Does to me :)

[Raid]

on the new apple/cs3 page in the second paragraph it says "Every new Mac features powerful dual-core or quad-core Intel processors...". Doesn't that sound like, you can get a mac with a quad-core processor?

Does to me :) It does, it does! :eek: Do you have a link?... I can't find the page. This would be great news, but I'm still not expecting 8-core Mac's till April. I noticed that Adobe CS3 will be shipping in April...which might be related to a new powerful computer that will run CS3. ... but that's just speculation.

[rloechner]

link (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nclm=MacAdobeCS3)

its in the third full paragraph just above where you can choose your mac...

[Redneck1089]

Hmmm...very interesting stuff indeed. I would like to purchase an Octo-Core 2.66Ghz Mac Pro for he same price as the current quad 3 Ghz. Hopefully that is possible. I've been waiting since the first rumors in November!!!! :eek:
As of the beginning of this month, I'm in pretty serious need of a new computer.

[elbirth]

With the ADOBE Intel support now out of the way, what else could be holding Apple back from releasing a new G5 mac pro line up?

The primary factor stopping this is the fact that they're not going to backpedal and start using G5s in the Mac Pros ;)

[Peace]

link (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nclm=MacAdobeCS3)

its in the third full paragraph just above where you can choose your mac...

The dual-core referred to is the Macbook/Pro line/iMac.
The Quad-core referred to is the current Mac Pro which has dual dual cores.

[CTYankee]

Apple is specifically not listed as one of the Event participants on the Adobe Event webcast page (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/launchevent/webcast/). The listed participants are HP, Intel, Nokia and Akamai.

I think Apple will want to let Adobe have this Tuesday to themselves. No point in mucking up the press with too many new products on the same day from competing software vendors.

Yet at the end the MC mentioned Apple first in his "thank you" remarks.

So now its 99% certain in my mind...new MacPro April 15.

[twoodcc]

The dual-core referred to is the Macbook/Pro line/iMac.
The Quad-core referred to is the current Mac Pro which has dual dual cores.

i wouldn't be so sure about that. maybe they'll release them tomorrow....

[Peace]

i wouldn't be so sure about that. maybe they'll release them tomorrow....

Maybe they will but I was referring to the ad.

According to the UK leak they won't be called "quad-core".They will be called 8-core.

Quad-Core is already out.

Quad meaning four..

Octo meaning eight.

[twoodcc]

Maybe they will but I was referring to the ad.

According to the UK leak they won't be called "quad-core".They will be called 8-core.

Quad-Core is already out.

Quad meaning four..

Octo meaning eight.

i was also. as of right now, you cannot buy a mac pro with a "quad-core processor"

you can buy one with 2 dual-core processors

[pknz]

i was also. as of right now, you cannot buy a mac pro with a "quad-core processor"

you can buy one with 2 dual-core processors

However you can buy one with four cores, or quad cores.

[twoodcc]

However you can buy one with four cores, or quad cores.

right.....you can add....2+2 = 4 cores.

read the ad how you want. i read it as the person did who gave the link. i think 4 cores in 1 processor is coming.....

[OllyW]

The dual-core referred to is the Macbook/Pro line/iMac.
The Quad-core referred to is the current Mac Pro which has dual dual cores.

That's exactly as I read it, Apple have always referred the Mac Pro as quad core.

[twoodcc]

That's exactly as I read it, Apple have always referred the Mac Pro as quad core.

but it says "quad-core processors" .....clearly the mac pro has dual-core

[Peace]

but it says "quad-core processors" .....clearly the mac pro has dual-core

Man your wishing has skewed your perception :)

[twoodcc]

Man your wishing has skewed your perception :)

maybe so....and it's been a long day.....

but anyways, we can always hope for something tomorrow.....isn't Wednesday the new Tuesday?

[bearbo]

apple has always said quad-core, or dual-core processor(s), but not quad-core processor(s)

[OllyW]

Man your wishing has skewed your perception :)

maybe so....and it's been a long day.....

but anyways, we can always hope for something tomorrow.....isn't Wednesday the new Tuesday?

We've gone far too long without updates.......

people are getting desperate :D

[Unique Visuals]

I havnt been this antsy since my kids were born 21 years ago. :eek:
Not this Tuesday, maybe next, oops maybe the next Tuesday after that.
Apple your driving us insane...

[Multimedia]

on the new apple/cs3 page in the second paragraph it says "Every new Mac features powerful dual-core or quad-core Intel processors..." (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nclm=MacAdobeCS3). Doesn't that sound like, you can get a mac with a quad-core processor?

Does to me :)Yes it reads that way to me as well. Excellent find! Somebody screwed up again with the composition. I guess marketing can't help themselves. :p :D :)

Wonder why the Production Premium bundle is missing. That's a pretty glaring omission. If I had to choose one, besides the MS I plan to buy, it would be the PP set not DP nor WP. :rolleyes:

[Peace]

Yes it reads that way to me as well. Excellent find! Somebody screwed up again with the composition. I guess marketing can't help themselves. :p :D :)

Wonder why the Production Premium bundle is missing. That's a pretty glaring omission. If I had to choose one, besides the MS I plan to buy, it would be the PP set not DP nor WP. :rolleyes:

Production Premium doesn't ship until after the other bundles ship April 23rd.

Don't think Adobe gave an exact ship date today.I could be wrong though.



It ships July 2007

[Multimedia]

Production Premium doesn't ship until after the other bundles ship April 23rd.

Don't think Adobe gave an exact ship date today.I could be wrong though.



It ships July 2007

Excellent. That jives with my wanting the whole shebang, 8 core with Leopard blah blah blah blah blah.

[BiikeMike]

Excellent. That jives with my wanting the whole shebang, 8 core with Leopard blah blah blah blah blah.

Yeah, you and me both! but...... JULY?!?

[mwswami]

From the Inquirer ....

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38649 :D :D

[kd_rome]

Hey guys, seems like the store is down but doesn't show the typical "We'll be right back" sign:

http://store.apple.com/

It only displays: Http/1.1 Service Unavailable

[Lord Nerdos]

Hey guys, seems like the store is down but doesn't show the typical "We'll be right back" sign:

http://store.apple.com/

It only displays: Http/1.1 Service Unavailable

Interesting... very very interesting... but is this just to do with the newly announced EMI deal? What could it be? If only I could shrink to the size of a virus and infect Mr Jobs brain then I could read his thoughts and know for sure...
*begins work on shrinking machine*

[mwswami]

Hey guys, seems like the store is down but doesn't show the typical "We'll be right back" sign:

http://store.apple.com/

It only displays: Http/1.1 Service UnavailableI think the Apple Store is experiencing technical difficulties. It came up briefly but was very sluggish. I got a brief glimpse of the main page; it didn't look any different.

The more interesting news to me is what the MAC PRO IS COMING TOMORROW (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38649) ...

[Lord Nerdos]

Hey guys, seems like the store is down but doesn't show the typical "We'll be right back" sign:

http://store.apple.com/

It only displays: Http/1.1 Service Unavailable

Stores are back up around the world... No change:mad:

Back to waiting for the octo-core:rolleyes:

[BiikeMike]

Stores are back up around the world... No change:mad:

Back to waiting for the octo-core:rolleyes:

I got really excited for a second when it said "upgrade to a new Mac and Adobe Creative Suite 3," but alas, its just the old Macs!

[liv4Mac]

I got my fingers, toes and eyes crossed hopping this is true.
Today is going to be a looooong day. *heartbeat*

[BiikeMike]

Not to be a Naysayer, and I hope i'm wrong, but..... Why is everyone so excited about what the Inquirer has to say? Aren't they pretty unreliable, just like the Enquirer?

[Multimedia]

From the Inquirer ....Apple to launch Clovertown Mac Pros, Now with white headphones

By Charlie Demerjian: Monday 02 April 2007 (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38649), 11:03 :D :DI don't believe it. I'm sick and tired of predictions that don't pan out. So I'm not getting up any hope at all that it'll happen before Leopard ships. :(

Father Jack even ripped off my post on the fake redundant thread mwswami is trying to start. Can we just stay here until it happens please people? We dont' need new threads based on fake predictions. :( Please don't post over there.

[Redneck1089]

I don't believe it. I'm sick and tired of predictions that don't pan out. So I'm not getting up any hope at all that it'll happen before Leopard ships. :(

Oh God...I hope it ships way before Leopard! I need one...

[aLoC]

It will definitely happen tomorrow. There were rumors they were waiting for CS3 to come out, and now it has. Plus there was the leak on the UK Apple store (not the last leak, the one before) which clearly mentioned an 8-core Mac Pro.

[Multimedia]

It will definitely happen tomorrow. There were rumors they were waiting for CS3 to come out, and now it has. Plus there was the leak on the UK Apple store (not the last leak, the one before) which clearly mentioned an 8-core Mac Pro.Oh really? Definitely? I've had to eat crow numerous times since November over pre-predicting with absolute metaphysical certainty that this product would ship before now. So I make zero predictions any more so I don't get whacked by some smart ass who trolls for mis-predictions.

I'm gonna whack you tomorrow aLoC! :eek: ;)

[twoodcc]

It will definitely happen tomorrow. There were rumors they were waiting for CS3 to come out, and now it has. Plus there was the leak on the UK Apple store (not the last leak, the one before) which clearly mentioned an 8-core Mac Pro.

it would be nice....but you might have just jinxed it

[yipster222]

It might be released tomorrow but it won't ship till OS X 10.5 is released. I hope it is release with the Penryn chip. Lower heat and watts plus bigger cache.

[rxse7en]

I am SOOO ready. Mac Pro + 30" LCD + CS3. So ready. Accountant said I need to buy more equipment this year, so I'm going all out. May even through a Mini into the mix.

B

[Wild-Bill]

Octo-cores are great and all, but the Mac Pro needs better video card offerings ala nVidia 8800GTX.

[meshuga]

I have an inside track that in JUNE u can expect a faster machine with a sleeker "SLIMMER" look...and displays to match! Though I wish they'd announce it in April :(

[aLoC]

I'm gonna whack you tomorrow aLoC! :eek: ;)

Maybe. But I think all the planets just may be in alignment this time. :apple:

[Dukkehus]

Octo-cores are great and all, but the Mac Pro needs better video card offerings ala nVidia 8800GTX.

Yezzz, DX 10, rock on.

[aLoC]

It might be released tomorrow but it won't ship till OS X 10.5 is released. I hope it is release with the Penryn chip. Lower heat and watts plus bigger cache.

Why do you say that? People with the current Mac Pros have been installing quad core chips and they work with Tiger.

[Multimedia]

Why do you say that? People with the current Mac Pros have been installing quad core chips and they work with Tiger.Well, if it starts shipping tomorrow, it better have Stoakley-Seaburg on board (http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=1) and be Leopard ready. :)

[Keebler]

I have an inside track that in JUNE u can expect a faster machine with a sleeker "SLIMMER" look...and displays to match! Though I wish they'd announce it in April :(

is this a belated april's fools joke?

there has to be new mac pros on april 15th. at least, there has to be for me.

i'm hitting 'buy' on or about that day regardless :)

[Redneck1089]

I have an inside track that in JUNE u can expect a faster machine with a sleeker "SLIMMER" look...and displays to match! Though I wish they'd announce it in April :(

SOURCE? I hate unsubstantiated claims.

[Jarcrew]

If it's true, naming your source gets your source fired.

If it's not, naming your source gets your source fired.

If you or your source are full of it, naming them doesn't really make a ton of sense.

So any way, you're not going to get a name out of anyone with an ounce of sense.

[Redneck1089]

If it's true, naming your source gets your source fired.

If it's not, naming your source gets your source fired.

If you or your source are full of it, naming them doesn't really make a ton of sense.

So any way, you're not going to get a name out of anyone with an ounce of sense.

Well the fact that this guy is a newbie, never contributed to any other rumors other than this, and won't back up his claim, I'm just going to make the most reasonable assumption and say he's full of it. I think if we don't see Mac Pros by NAB or very shortly thereafter, it will be in June that we see an update.

I really hope it's not that long because I could really, really, use a new computer and I'm withholding my purchase because I want the newest technology along with better GPUs.

[rloechner]

... withholding my purchase because I want the newest technology along with better GPUs.

the grass is always greener on the other side my friend. didn't you hear what's coming out Christmas time? thats only a few MORE months away .. sure you can't wait? :D

[meshuga]

is this a belated april's fools joke?

there has to be new mac pros on april 15th. at least, there has to be for me.

i'm hitting 'buy' on or about that day regardless :)

SOURCE? I hate unsubstantiated claims.

My source is a concerned friend at apple that knows I am about to spend $9,000 on a maxed out mac pro system with 2 displays.... he/she was vague but im actually hoping beyond hope that something is announced mid april.

Further more... its not like your predicting the coming of the messiah... look at the buyers guide... anyone with half a pentium can work out that something is on the horizon for april but most probably june... so im more likely to believe my concerned friend though i dont think my project can wait till june for the processing boost...

Oh yes... why are people so personal on here and talk about other that participate like they are not here reading posts... my gosh im "some guy" now lol This is a forum, obviously there are some people that like to play jokes. but surely I would be abit more creative since you actually stated the same as me in "theory" Redneck*

I think if we don't see Mac Pros by NAB or very shortly thereafter, it will be in June that we see an update.

Anyway,,, we are in the same boat and i hope something does come out in April.

[Redneck1089]

the grass is always greener on the other side my friend. didn't you hear what's coming out Christmas time? thats only a few MORE months away .. sure you can't wait? :D

I hate this fashion of telling people "the grass is always greener on the other side" when relating to computers. In the case of the Mac Pros, they've been out now since last summer and are very, very, ready for an update. I'm hoping for SS, perhaps an HD player/burner, better GPUs, and 8 cores. Why? Because that would be extremely useful for my needs. I could get by on an existing Mac Pro, but why would I want to just get by when new computers will be out shortly? When Apple updates their computers again after this upcoming update, it will be at least another 4-6 month wait.

[Redneck1089]

My source is a concerned friend at apple that knows I am about to spend $9,000 on a maxed out mac pro system with 2 displays.... he/she was vague but im actually hoping beyond hope that something is announced mid april.

Further more... its not like your predicting the coming of the messiah... look at the buyers guide... anyone with half a pentium can work out that something is on the horizon for april but most probably june... so im more likely to believe my concerned friend though i dont think my project can wait till june for the processing boost...

Oh yes... why are people so personal on here and talk about other that participate like they are not here reading posts... my gosh im "some guy" now lol This is a forum, obviously there are some people that like to play jokes. but surely I would be abit more creative since you actually stated the same as me in "theory" Redneck*



Anyway,,, we are in the same boat and i hope something does come out in April.

So it sounds like your "source" isn't even sure of what's going on. Why do you say "most probably June" for a release? To me it would be most probable to bet on April for the release of updated Mac Pros. The fact that Apple has recently had two slips on their online store regarding the number of cores their computers have shows me that something is most definitely in the pipeline and will be out sooner than later.

Sure, this is just a guess. However, it's an educated guess based on Apple's mistakes on their online store and based on an already long over due update cycle. I'm not saying that you're lying or anything, and you may well have a friend who works for Apple, but what I am saying is that more things point to April than June. *shrugs*

Anyways, one thing we have in common is we both want an updated Mac Pro. :)

[patrick0brien]

anyone with half a pentium can work out that something is on the horizon...

-meshuga

Very nice... :)

[meshuga]

Redneck... even people at apple dont know FOR SURE what's going to happen since most employees are kept in the dark, ask anyone who actually works at apple. of course my source is not just a worker bee but even then,, has buddies deeper in the hive that do the "pillow talk".. I really hope april too by the way... REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE... or ill have to get the best of what there is now, which will obviously leave me open for at least a year of grumpiness while others get the "next new thing from mac"

I could take just a speed update... that would not damage my ego... but a new mac pro facelift? and brighter displays with webcam etc ... AND price benefits.... good grief... id be a sad bunny.

[rloechner]

I hate this fashion of telling people

chill dude.

[ddaniel]

If I were a betting man i'd say the new MBP's were announced at NAB and released in June.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the new MBP's integrate multi-touch into their hardware. This would make all the questions of the "secret features" of Leopard (and the Adobe CS3 updates that can only be released AFTER Leopard) make sense. A multi-touch Macbook Pro would be revolutionary.

It doesn't make sense that Apple would cause so much hype over Multi-touch and limit it to only one piece of hardware.

[rloechner]

can i just get a, hell yea?

http://www.apple.com/macpro/ (http://www.apple.com/macpro/):apple: :apple:

[blad3z]

Yep they out

Eight cores or four
"Opt for the 8-core Mac Pro and you get the power of two Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Clovertown” processors running at 3.0GHz. Or choose a quad-core Mac Pro featuring two Dual-Core Intel Xeon “Woodcrest” processors and decide how fast they fly: 2.0GHz, 2.66GHz, or 3.0GHz. At 3.0GHz, the quad-core Mac Pro runs up to 2x faster than the Power Mac G5 Quad.1"

YAY! hahaha

[justflie]

can i just get a, hell yea?

http://www.apple.com/macpro/ (http://www.apple.com/macpro/):apple: :apple:

Hell yea. Why isn't this front page yet? :)

[RichP]

$4000!!!! At least its 8 Core at 3.00Ghz, so the thing must scream!

Im kind of disappointed that the pricing on the current quad-core offerings didnt fall. Kind of set on a quad-core 3.0 at $2499

[Karpfish]

WOW I just opened firefox then saw the MP on the front page and im like huh why no ATV then saw 8-cores. too bad its so expensive

[Chimpy]

My decision to not wait and buy a Mac Pro a month ago has been validated! Woohoo! ;)

[sbaik]

$4000:eek:
u better buy 2 dual cores macpro it will cost $4400!!!

thanks God I didn't wait:D

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Please take all the discussion on the new 8 core over in the news thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=293621

And the displays here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=293662