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Adamo
Jan 7, 2007, 10:45 AM
I got myself a new Sony camcorder, 30GB hard drive inside - and to get the files onto the Mac you just drag and drop as it's simply an external hard drive attached. The model of the camera is DCR-SR90.

However, it records with mpg files, iMovieHD doesn't want to recognise them (rejects them), Quicktime doesn't play them and VLC plays them but with a few stutters.

Which Mac (using a MacBook Core Duo...) program will aid me in my goal of editing stuff?!

Cheers!



-DH
Jan 7, 2007, 11:08 AM
The MPEG family of video codecs were designed to be used as a delivery format only - NOT intended for further editing. However, you should be able to use a program like MPEG Streamclip to demux and convert the files into something editable. iMovie works best with a DV Stream, while FCP prefers QT Movies that match your Sequence settings.

-DH

Adamo
Jan 7, 2007, 12:09 PM
The MPEG family of video codecs were designed to be used as a delivery format only - NOT intended for further editing. However, you should be able to use a program like MPEG Streamclip to demux and convert the files into something editable. iMovie works best with a DV Stream, while FCP prefers QT Movies that match your Sequence settings.

-DH

Oh? Hmm, why does the Sony camera output them then? Really confused. :s

bigbossbmb
Jan 7, 2007, 12:35 PM
because it is a consumer camera...

and MPEG compression allows them to store more video on the hard drive. Get MPEG Streamclip as -DH suggested, it will do exactly what you want.

-DH
Jan 7, 2007, 01:25 PM
Oh? Hmm, why does the Sony camera output them then? Really confused. :s

As bigbossbmb said; because it IS a consumer camcorder - very consumerish. Sony and others know they can market just about anything to the consumer crowd since 95% of the users won't ever need or even want to edit the footage they've shot. They assume the end consumer will do some research about the various formats that camcorders will record and choose the one best suited for your intended purpose. For content acquisition that's going to be edited, MPEG ain't it. It's a HEAVILY compressed format (lossy) right from the start, with a very poor color space.

-DH

NTJetboater
Jan 12, 2007, 09:54 AM
I tried to convert an mpg to something editable and there are a ton of demux options..anyone care to suggest the best option for imovie.
I have around 8-10 clips all around 200-400 mb that I need to convert for editing in Imovie.
When I demux them will the original file be lost? How big can I expect the converted file to be?
thanks

NTJetboater
Feb 19, 2007, 10:47 AM
Still having problems getting mpeg's converted.
Which is the best demux option ofr high rwes avi or dv files?

yellow
Feb 19, 2007, 10:53 AM
I had a similar problem with one of my users. She has a Sony cam with an HD and all the movies we pulled from the camera had no sound in quicktime and no sound when inmported into FCP.

Try converting them with MPEGStreamClip (http://www.squared5.com/). It's Free.

Multimedia
Feb 19, 2007, 11:33 AM
I got myself a new Sony camcorder, 30GB hard drive inside - and to get the files onto the Mac you just drag and drop as it's simply an external hard drive attached. The model of the camera is DCR-SR90.

However, it records with mpg files, iMovieHD doesn't want to recognise them (rejects them), Quicktime doesn't play them and VLC plays them but with a few stutters.

Which Mac (using a MacBook Core Duo...) program will aid me in my goal of editing stuff?!You bought the wrong new Sony camcorder. The AVCHD format these HDD camcorders record is much lower quality than HDV which is downwardly compatible with the long time established DV format as well as upwardly compatible with professional broadcast cameras.

Here are all the details on the subject of the AVCHD format for you to learn about (http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38).As bigbossbmb said; because it IS a consumer camcorder - very consumerish. Sony and others know they can market just about anything to the consumer crowd since 95% of the users won't ever need or even want to edit the footage they've shot. They assume the end consumer will do some research about the various formats that camcorders will record and choose the one best suited for your intended purpose. For content acquisition that's going to be edited, MPEG ain't it. It's a HEAVILY compressed format (lossy) right from the start, with a very poor color space.Here we have a case of someone buying a video camera before researching what video recording formats are compatible with iMovie, Final Cut Express HD and/or Final Cut Pro. The buyer also did not research which "consumer" format is compatable with ProSumer and Professional video formats for maximum quality and long term archiving.

My post is not meant to read as harsh nor as a put down. Adamo, you bought a camera that records in a very OVERCOMPRESSED format that defeats your goal of recording precious moments for long term saving in your life's memories. Although you may be able to do successful transcoding to DV with MPEGStreamClip, the quality of what you recorded to begin with on this camera is sub-par compared to what you can record and directly edit with any HDV videotape camera.

How long ago did you buy it where? If less than 30 days ago at a major store, they may let you trade it in for a HDV camera. Otherwise I would recommend you sell it and buy the new Sony HDR-HC7 camera for $1136 street - read the thread this links to - (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278617) that lets you move your recordings directly into iMovie and Final Cut Express HD for excellent editing.I had a similar problem with one of my users. She has a Sony cam with an HD and all the movies we pulled from the camera had no sound in quicktime and no sound when inmported into FCP.

Try converting them with MPEGStreamClip (http://www.squared5.com/). It's Free.This may work, but starting with lower quality than HDV will yield even worse after the transcode. Bottom line is HDD based video recorders are problematic as they OVERCOMPRESS the images and archiving your recordings are a huge problem as hard drives fail faster than video tape stores on the shelf.

yellow
Feb 19, 2007, 11:36 AM
This may work, but starting with lower quality than HDV will yield even worse after the transcode. Bottom line is HDD based video recorders are problematic as they OVERCOMPRESS the images and archiving your recordings are a huge problem as hard drives fail faster than video tape stores on the shelf.

Be that as it may, I was not consulted before it was purchased, and there was no chance that it was going to be taken back. So, what I found was a usable work around for their snafu.

Multimedia
Feb 19, 2007, 11:49 AM
Be that as it may, I was not consulted before it was purchased, and there was no chance that it was going to be taken back. So, what I found was a usable work around for their snafu.Would you mind elaborating on exactly how you use MPEGStreamclip - step by step - and what the results look like in what format for editing? Do they let you transcode to HDV or SD DV only? Can you retain the 16:9 aspect ratio? Thanks.

NTJetboater
Feb 19, 2007, 11:49 AM
Streamclip is free, but the QT codec to convert mpeg2's is $30. I just bought it, so we will see if it converts all these mpeg2s to avi or dv for imovie.

yellow
Feb 19, 2007, 12:00 PM
Would you mind elaborating on exactly how you use MPEGStreamclip - step by step - and what the results look like in what format for editing? Do they let you transcode to HDV or SD DV only? Can you retain the 16:9 aspect ratio? Thanks.

I don't do it. I just found the software and tried it the first time. So I have no idea what the step by step process for translation works.
I just left all the defaults. I am a techguru, not an AV producer.

Yes it does preserve 16:9.

Streamclip is free, but the QT codec to convert mpeg2's is $30. I just bought it, so we will see if it converts all these mpeg2s to avi or dv for imovie.

In my case, the MPEG2 Playback didn't work.

NTJetboater
Feb 19, 2007, 02:39 PM
I just finished converting a couple with out problems so far.
The one mpeg2 went from 379mb to 2.7gb. It will be interesting to see if the video quality improves when back on DVD.

Multimedia
Feb 19, 2007, 02:49 PM
In the Apple developer's section of their website, they offer a FireWire SDK (Software Development Kit) version 23 that includes importation applications spcifically for AVCHD called AVCVideoCap as well as DVHSCap for HDV capturing. You need to register for the FREE ADC Online Membership to get this kit from this web page on the Apple site. (http://developer.apple.com/membership/online.html/) Registration is FREE to anyone. I believe it may be against my developer agreement with Apple to post the link to the kit here.

But anyone can get it and install those applications on their Mac. Then use them to import your AVCHD stream before using MPEG Streamclip to turn them into editable QT files. Just guessing this might help. Don't have one of those cameras to experiment with directly. Hope this helps.

You need to search the developer part of the Apple Website for "FireWire SDK" then sign up for a free developer account and download it and install it. The latest is version 23 for 10.4.8 and newer including the pre-release of Leopard. I just installed is and it adds a "Developer" folder to your home volume with both applicaitons inside it. MPEG Streamclip says to use DVHSCap for HDV imports as well. Anyway there are a lot of software toys in this SDK you might want to fool around with to figure out how to get the most out of your AVCHD Sony DCR-SR90 camcorder's stream into your Mac.

yellow
Feb 19, 2007, 03:08 PM
The only problem I see with that is most of the Sony HD cams that I've looked at only have USB connections, and no firewire (or iLink, as they like to call it).

Multimedia
Feb 19, 2007, 03:20 PM
The only problem I see with that is most of the Sony HD cams that I've looked at only have USB connections, and no firewire (or iLink, as they like to call it).You mean the AVCHD Camera's? :eek: 'Cause the HDV cameras all definitely have iLink i/o ports. I think I better download the manual for that camera he bought so I can familiarize myself with its details.

His DCR-SR90 is obsolete. Not listed for sale on the Sony website. I can't even find it listed in the support section to try and get a copy of the manual. When did you buy this model Adamo?

Got the DCR-SR40/60/80 handbook and you're right. No iLink/FireWire port for moving files from the internal HDD to the computer. Only a method of burning to DVD as the way to backup recordings. I would definitely sell that camcorder as quickly as you can Adamo. It's really a dead end format - in my opinion.

This line is not even High Definition. Please get a HVD camera Adamo.

yellow
Feb 19, 2007, 04:29 PM
Sorry, as a techguru versus an AV guru, our definitions of "HD" are undoubtedly different.
You mean high def.
I mean hard drive.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DCRSR200&Dept=cameras&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_HardDiskHandycamCamcorders

mikemodena
Feb 19, 2007, 05:26 PM
The answer: DropDV
http://www.dropdv.com/download/DropDV.dmg

Multimedia
Feb 19, 2007, 06:42 PM
The answer: DropDV
http://www.dropdv.com/download/DropDV.dmgGreat get Mike. And here's the website with all the dirt on DropDV which costs $40 (http://www.dropdv.com/).

bimmzy
Feb 26, 2007, 06:19 PM
For content acquisition that's going to be edited, MPEG ain't it. It's a HEAVILY compressed format (lossy) right from the start, with a very poor color space.

-DH
oh i love this one: this takes me back to some dull lectures at Wood Norton which sadly i was awake in at the time.

YES in general the above is true, especially for you, Adamo.
But for the sake of technical accuracy (and i am splitting hairs here) mpeg video streams are being edited by the big-boys in broadcasting and film production all the time. Even if you have a HDV camcorder and you edit footage from that, you are in effect splicing up an MPEG-2 signal natively!!!!!

In cinema HDCAM SR which uses the MPEG-4 is increasingly pushing film aside, though there are many different ways to skin the MPEG-4 signal so to speak.

So, where does that leave you Adamo?
Well, MPEG Stream Clip is a wonderful application that will allow you to convert loads of different mpeg signals in to something MORE EDITABLE.

my advise is that if you are using imovie of fcp/fce, then a DV stream is probably best, but it will produce very big files!

bigbossbmb
Feb 26, 2007, 06:40 PM
^and that is why HDV is not a very good format and why Panasonic leap-frogged the HDV trend when designing the HVX. MPEG compression in consumer formats (HDV, Hard drive handycams, etc) is very very bad for editing.

use MPEGstreamclip and convert to DV...

bimmzy
Feb 26, 2007, 07:34 PM
^and that is why HDV is not a very good format and why Panasonic leap-frogged the HDV trend when designing the HVX. MPEG compression in consumer formats (HDV, Hard drive handycams, etc) is very very bad for editing.

use MPEGstreamclip and convert to DV...


MPEG IS NOT A CONSUMER FORMAT!

(HDV semi-professional codec: (MPEG))

BETACAM SX Broadcast/Professional codec: (MPEG)
IMX Broadcast/Professional codec: (MPEG)
XDCAM HD HD Broadcast/Professional codec: (MPEG)
HDCAM HD Broadcast/Professional codec: (MPEG)
HDCAM HD Broadcast/Professional codec: (MPEG)

Its true that Panasonic P2 (utilised by HVX camcorders) uses in-the-main the MJPEG codec, and its also true that you can chose at what data rate you wish to "dial in" your compression.
But P2 uses the same compression methods as DV namely MJPEG. DV is hardly a broadcast format by any stretch of the imagination (though i accept that it is used in news-gathering).

So to say that P2 and therefore MJPEG is exclusively professional is actually misleading and wide of the mark.

Panasonic's equipment is not popular amongst the Broadcasters, who tend to purchase Sony's kit. The TV companies overwhelmingly dominate the purchasing of "professional" equipment. HVX uses tried and tested technology, and its its not new.
DVC, DVC PRO, DVC PRO HD, employ the same compression methods. but no one in broadcasting is buying it!

THE MPEG FORMATS IN BROADCATING DOMIATE - FACT!

bigbossbmb
Feb 26, 2007, 08:29 PM
whoa, simmer down there..

I said, "MPEG compression in consumer format". I did not say that MPEG is a consumer format. I know there are high end MPEG formats as you mentioned. But the consumer forms of MPEG are not very good for editing(quality wise).

HDV is a decent consumer format, but it will not stick around long once the AVC-HD cameras roll out (MPEG4). When intra-frame AVC codecs make their way into prosumer cameras, they will be a much MUCH better option than anything HDV. For now, the HVX's P2 is a better option (in terms of quality) compared to HDV.

btw... YOUR SPELLING DOMIATES

sorry I couldn't resist...

bimmzy
Feb 27, 2007, 06:32 AM
btw... YOUR SPELLING DOMIATES

sorry I couldn't resist...

it was rited late at nite :D