2007 Formula One Thread [Archive] - Page 2

R.Youden

Mar 27, 2007, 04:23 PM

This may be a long ramble so please bear with me...

The reason that the FIA want to slow the cars down is not a direct result of any 'safety' or 'green concerns'. Formula One is a business (like all major sports these days) and it gets very boring if one team wins all the time.

If one team (in the last few years Ferrari) wins every year then fans stop watching. If fans stop watching the revenue goes down and in turn (this is the big one) manufacturers leave the sport. Why did jaguar (Ford) quit a few years ago; because they where not doing any good. If they had been competitive, which in turn makes it financially viable, then they would have stayed.

What the FIA have to do is try and make the sport as exciting for the fans whilst making it competitive so that companies stay involved. If teams are given a free budget and no restrictions (eg the engine freeze) then it will be a case of the team with the biggest budget wins (Ferrari) so the other manufacturers leave.

Now whilst I agree that these new regulations have 'neutered' the sport they have achieved what the FIA wants, manufacturers to commit long-term futures to the sport.

The engine freeze is, for the FIA, the most logical way of cutting costs. If you can make one engine then you already have the infrastructure to make 10. Therefore with this engine freeze you are not limiting the workings of the team, only maybe a few design staff. Now if you make an aero freeze then these teams that have invested millions into wind tunnels (Honda have just spent £36million on a new tunnel) will be left with a very large and very expensive air conditioning fan! This will annoy the teams who will threaten to pull out.

The point about big fat slicks is a common misconception too. If you think about it a spinning wheel generates a lot of air turbulence which in turn effects the aero of the car behind (less of an effect if they use 'complex' aero) so you get LESS overtaking. I agree that we should have fully slick tires, (just not ones that are 3 foot wide) and I believe that this maybe happening soon.

So for the FIA it is a very fine line. Improve the racing and loose manufacturers, which will loose interest and money, or keep the big names with not such great racing which annoys the fans (who the FIA doesn't really care about anyway).

I said it would be long!

iGav

Mar 28, 2007, 07:59 AM

Formula One is a business (like all major sports these days) and it gets very boring if one team wins all the time.

But the history of F1 is littered with periods of domination by one team over not just an era, but successive decades, yet it's still experienced near unparalleled growth over the last 30 years.

Ultimately though, F1 is a sport first, and entertainment second. The FIA's attempt at artificially creating closer competition is more closely related to the latter than the former.

Just look at what artificial meddling has done to the BTTC for example, and it looks like the same is going to occur in the forthcoming ALMS series too.

If one team (in the last few years Ferrari) wins every year then fans stop watching. If fans stop watching the revenue goes down and in turn (this is the big one) manufacturers leave the sport.

History suggests otherwise. Consider the near total domination of the McLaren and Williams teams in the 1980's and 1990's. This certainly has not had a detrimental affect on the subsequent influx of manufacturers in the the 21st century (BMW, Honda, Renault, Toyota).

And revenues are increasing, not decreasing... a contributing factor to this is the eagerness of developing economies and countries to host a GP, which obviously is a massive incentive for the manufacturers, if not quite the same reasons for privateers.

If teams are given a free budget and no restrictions (eg the engine freeze) then it will be a case of the team with the biggest budget wins (Ferrari) so the other manufacturers leave.

Again history suggests that this is not the case. For example, consider Renault's success over the last two seasons. Or Benetton's, McLaren and Williams in the 1980's and '90's, when Ferrari arguably had the largest budget of all the teams.

But, it's also worth considering that Ferrari have not, according to Business F1 magazine, had the biggest budget for some years. With McLaren, Toyota, Honda, and BMW all having greater ones.

Honda and Toyota especially, are proof that huge budgets do not equate to success.

But the teams will spend whatever money they can generate, testing restrictions, engine restrictions, etc etc will make no difference at all. The money will just be diverted elsewhere. If a team can procure $400 million a season, then they will spend $400 million a season, regardless of any restrictions, and there has been nothing to suggest otherwise.

The point about big fat slicks is a common misconception too. If you think about it a spinning wheel generates a lot of air turbulence which in turn effects the aero of the car behind (less of an effect if they use 'complex' aero) so you get LESS overtaking.

Whilst what you are saying is true, it's ignoring the fact that todays cars generate more of their grip through aerodynamic downforce, then the less aerodynamically sensitive cars of say 15-20 years ago, which had higher levels of mechanical grip, (slicks, increased width, lower ride height etc).

Because of the changes in the regulations, we've seen the FIA reduce grip from the tyres (narrower, grooves), we've seen them narrow the cars, and increase their ride height, which have seen a subsequent and significant reduction in the levels of mechanic grip, whilst they've increased the aero-dependency of the cars which has made it increasingly difficult to overtake, and because of the FIA's changes, they do not have the mechanical grip to compensate for this lack of downforce when attempting to closely follow the car in front.

So yes, whilst adding big fat slicks would be detrimental to current F1 cars overtaking, it would of course need to be balanced out by a reduction in the dependency and complexity of the cars current aerodynamics to generate sufficient levels of grip to allow for more overtaking opportunities.

R.Youden

Mar 30, 2007, 05:01 AM

I hear what you are saying, but almost every argument starts with "History suggests otherwise". This is the big problem. Formula One is hugely different from what it was 20 years ago (people enjoyed watching Prost and Senna win 15 out of 16 races because is was entertaining), it is even different to what it was 5 years ago.

It is not controlled by Bernie and Max in their ivory towers anymore. The manufacturers have so much input into the regulations. It will be impossible to reduce the aerodynamic properties of the car as it is such a complex area and so much money has been spent on it. Teams are not going to vote on scrapping aero development after they have spent millions of pounds on wind tunnels and such like.

I agree that in an utopian state formula one would have loads of overtaking but someone (I think it was Eddie jordan) said. If you put the fastest car at the front and the slowest at the back then you are never going to get much overtaking are you?

R.Youden

Mar 30, 2007, 11:50 AM

The FIA have started to dick with the rules yet again.

From 2008 traction control will be banned (in principle I agree with this but it opens up so many options on cheating, but with the single ECU this isn't too much of a problem I suppose).

They are not making the cars any wider (which would have given them more mechnical grip and hopefully encouraged overtaking).

They are not going to used slick tyres (this isn't really an issue with a single tyre manufacturer as they could give them less / more grip than the grooved if they wanted)

And they are going to allow some changes to the engine.

Change for the sake of change.

Lord Blackadder

Mar 30, 2007, 02:49 PM

I'm not happy. Maybe we'll have a spec engine soon, who knows? I privately hope the spec ECU fails miserably.

R.Youden

Mar 30, 2007, 04:31 PM

This is the standard ECU:

http://www.mclarenelectronics.com/products/all/i/unit_cont_TAG-310B.gif

The problem with the ECU is that it is made by McLaren and from what I could gather they are limited to running the same style of sensor that only Mclaren run. So if Renault wanted to run a specific sensor and McLaren don't support that type of sensor then they can't run it.

There will not be an issue with reliability as both McLaren and (I think) Spyker use this ECU at the moment.

Lord Blackadder

Mar 31, 2007, 05:16 PM

R.Youden

Mar 31, 2007, 07:43 PM

I can't see the other teams not flipping out about this though - McLaren will have great experience with software development on this ECU, while the other teams will have to pull all-nighters reading the manual before they have the same proficiency. Advantage: McLaren.

I would think they'd go with a third-party component to avoid squabbles...

From the way I can remember it working to was like this:

When the FIA said they wanted to run a standard ECU and they would open it to bids the three big ECU suppliers to Formula One, TAG Electronics (McLaren), Magneti Marelli and Pi Research all agreed not to run so there would not be a single supplier if no-one submitted an offer.

At the last minute it was announced that a small ECU maker had submitted an offer so all the other companies had to do the same. Therefore the contract was offered to TAG.

As far as changing over to the TAG electronics I don't think it is a huge issue. They will have the units by now. Most of the code will be written in MATLAB Simulink so the Control engineers will know what is going on. Who will have to do the hard work is the guys who run the electronics at track side and use the software. I think the TAG software is called ATLAS.

It is not a huge technical issue but what the teams are concerned about will be the limitations that are imposed on them and how information gets back to McLaren.

Lord Blackadder

Apr 1, 2007, 12:49 AM

It is not a huge technical issue but what the teams are concerned about will be the limitations that are imposed on them and how information gets back to McLaren.

Which is a fairly significant issue...I dunno, I guess I'm used to manufacturers getting their backs up over the smallest thing, but they all seem to be swallowing this horsepill in relative silence.

R.Youden

Apr 1, 2007, 04:05 AM

Which is a fairly significant issue...I dunno, I guess I'm used to manufacturers getting their backs up over the smallest thing, but they all seem to be swallowing this horsepill in relative silence.

I think part of the reason there isn't much publicity over this move is that electronics is very "cool". I think that there is going to be slightly more ability to have a closed system where not too much information goes back to McLaren.

There will be the usual NDA but Formula One is one of those industries where almost every team will have some employees that have worked for every other team. At Honda I knew of at least 4 or 5 guys that had worked for McLaren in terms of electronics / control so they shouldn't have too much trouble.

One issue will be what happens when a control unit fails and has to be shipped back to McLaren for service still fully loaded with software and logged data...

iGav

Apr 1, 2007, 08:14 AM

I hear what you are saying, but almost every argument starts with "History suggests otherwise". This is the big problem.

It's not a big problem. It was to demonstrate that what you were saying had no historical basis or merit, whether it be 1 year ago or 20, because what you were saying was not new to F1.

It will be impossible to reduce the aerodynamic properties of the car as it is such a complex area and so much money has been spent on it. Teams are not going to vote on scrapping aero development after they have spent millions of pounds on wind tunnels and such like.

I am not suggesting that aero development be scrapped.

What I am suggesting is that regulations be changed to reduce the cars dependency on aerodynamic downforce to generate grip whilst there is a change in the regulations that allow for a corresponding increase in the levels of mechanical grip.

And it's not impossible to reduce and simplify the aerodynamic properties of the cars at all. It's completely feasible and achievable. Windtunnels will still be just as important in developing, refining and optimising the aerodynamics of the car. It's just that they won't be the singularly most important one.

I agree that in an utopian state formula one would have loads of overtaking

Has F1 ever really had a surplus of overtaking? I don't think it has. And I know I certainly wouldn't want it to become like NASCAR where there's so much overtaking as for it to become meaningless.

But with the current regulations, we're in a position where cars with a 2 second a lap advantage struggle to overtake slower cars (Massa Vs Button Australia 2007) and there's next to no hope of teammates overtaking one another when one is slower than the other (Barrichello Vs Button, Australia 2007).

And this is down to the current regulations favouring the importance of aerodynamics, whilst not allowing for corresponding levels of mechanical grip to balance out the performance of the cars.

From 2008 traction control will be banned (in principle I agree with this but it opens up so many options on cheating, but with the single ECU this isn't too much of a problem I suppose).

I think I agree in principle too, though I'm certainly expecting some interesting (and innovative) mechanical solutions to maybe try and replicate primitive traction control functionality.

They are not making the cars any wider (which would have given them more mechnical grip and hopefully encouraged overtaking).

They've made a big booboo here IMHO.

They are not going to used slick tyres (this isn't really an issue with a single tyre manufacturer as they could give them less / more grip than the grooved if they wanted)

I think it's a massive issue. A wide slick tyre, of the same compound as a narrower grooved one provides more mechanical grip. To compensate for the lower levels of grip provided by a narrower, grooved tyre you need to soften the compound, which then has the unwanted side effect of producing more marbles off line, further reducing overtaking opportunities.

With the introduction of slicks, whilst this will increase cornering speeds (see Ferrari's recent test with GP2 tyres), if we saw a reduction in the aerodynamic dependency of the car, then this would cancel out that speed increase.

If we then saw changes to the regulations that widened the cars, lowered them, allowed flat undertrays etc we'd have cars that are not so easily disrupted by turbulence. Well... it worked alright in the '80's. :p

As far as changing over to the TAG electronics I don't think it is a huge issue.

Me neither.

Unless McLaren start dominating all of a sudden. ;) :p

iGav

Apr 2, 2007, 11:05 AM

Imagine how much better this is going to make the racing (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57752) :rolleyes:

Lord Blackadder

Apr 2, 2007, 01:27 PM

Considering the level of technical expertise present in F1, I'm surprised they had such a hard time coming up with a tire that meets the distinguishability rules. It shouldn't even be news that they finally figured how to paint a bloody white line on the tire!

I can't give a toss anyway, since right now I can't see the races on TV (no satellite/cable :( )

I wonder if the ruling against BMW/Ferrari's spring-loaded floors will show in their pace though...

mfacey

Apr 2, 2007, 01:32 PM

Imagine how much better this is going to make the racing (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57752) :rolleyes:

Seems like the most reasonable way to solve this problem. It will be a interesting to see whether the grooves stay visible as the tires get dirty after a few laps...

R.Youden

Apr 7, 2007, 04:15 AM

Well qualifying is over for the Malaysian Grand Prix and it was pretty much as we expected.

Winners:

Toyota did better than expected.
BMW carrying the good work.

Losers:

Honda just can't push the car to the limit.
Renault not at the races at all.

The new white line in the tyre groove looks to be working well. Should be an interesting race tomorrow.

Lord Blackadder

Apr 7, 2007, 12:37 PM

I'm excited. :D

The four McLaren and Ferrari drivers are giving us a great show so far - any one of them seems able to challenge the others. Great competition!

R.Youden

Apr 7, 2007, 01:52 PM

I'm excited. :D

The four McLaren and Ferrari drivers are giving us a great show so far - any one of them seems able to challenge the others. Great competition!

It should be good, BUT, what do people want to see. If they expect loads of overtaking then I think we will be disappointed, again!

Again, you put the fastest guy first and the slowest last then you aint going to get much are you?

Lord Blackadder

Apr 7, 2007, 02:00 PM

True, that. But maybe messrs. Alonso, Massa, Raikkonen and Hamilton can cook up some overtaking manuevers. I'm hoping anyway...

R.Youden

Apr 7, 2007, 02:06 PM

True, that. But maybe messrs. Alonso, Massa, Raikkonen and Hamilton can cook up some overtaking manuevers. I'm hoping anyway...

I hope you are true but with the current points system and the reliability of the cars these days it isn't worth trying one up the inside into turn 1 so there is no incentive...

Lord Blackadder

Apr 7, 2007, 02:23 PM

This is when I miss Montoya - he was a bit crazy but sometimes I just want to see a driver fling his car into harm's way to make a pass. Processions are simply boring.

iGav

Apr 7, 2007, 03:49 PM

Again, you put the fastest guy first and the slowest last then you aint going to get much are you?

We used to.

R.Youden

Apr 8, 2007, 05:28 AM

DerChef

Apr 8, 2007, 05:44 AM

Another yawn fest of a grand prix. The only good thing was how Massa showed his total inability as a race driver yet again. There is no doubt he is quick but has no grasp of how to drive a race. The mistake he made at the start was bad, but the two botched overtaking attempts on Hamilton where a joke.

With regard to we used to have a lot of overtaking. Did we? I am not old enough to remember racing in the 70's and 80's but from looking at the videos and talking to people they had some pretty dull races. I think the big difference now is how the tracks have been neutered by designers, that means you Mr Tilke. Take Spa, Suzuka or Silverstone, you get great races there because they are designed for overtaking in many places. The problem is we have too many circuits like Magny-Cours, Hungaro-ring, Barcelona, Kuala Lumpor or Nurburgring they are terrible circuits where there will never be any overtaking because the tracks are poorly designed for modern Formula One cars.

and excatly how is it the circuits fault we have been racing at Monaco since 1929 !

If you are more interesting in beefing up the show then the obvious area to look at is the dominance of aero vs mechanical grip.

BUT NOTHING will be done about that as the teams and Bernie will want the maximum area of wings and vanes and boards to plaster adverts on

so you are stuck with it I'm afraid.

You could have common tyres , electronics, wing structures, same gear ratios well eventually you might as well watch A1GP ;)

R.Youden

Apr 8, 2007, 06:39 AM

and excatly how is it the circuits fault we have been racing at Monaco since 1929 !

If you are more interesting in beefing up the show then the obvious area to look at is the dominance of aero vs mechanical grip.

BUT NOTHING will be done about that as the teams and Bernie will want the maximum area of wings and vanes and boards to plaster adverts on

so you are stuck with it I'm afraid.

You could have common tyres , electronics, wing structures, same gear ratios well eventually you might as well watch A1GP ;)

I agree with you totally on the technical side. But we will never see manufacturer teams agreeing to make millions of pounds worth of investment in wind tunnels just to make racing entertaining. The team bosses are not interesting to racing, all they want to do is win. If you alienate the manufacturers by enforcing these rules then they will pull out and that will be detrimental to the sport as a whole.

I can't see too many problems with what we have at the moment, what I would like to see though is improved circuits which at least have an attempt to make the racing better.

Monaco is an exception but I don't mind it too much, as it is a challenge to the teams to run the cars in such an environment.

iGav

Apr 8, 2007, 09:25 AM

Sack Massa and Räikkönen right now.

*Begins dialling the Schu to get us out of this one.

giganten

Apr 8, 2007, 10:11 AM

good race today :D .

MP4-22

Apr 8, 2007, 11:04 AM

Yah, stayed up all night to watch it. I fell asleep at 5:30AM. Then I had to go help out with a 8:00 Easter Mass. It wasn't even all that exciting.

Anyways, who is the lead driver at Ferrari?

Lord Blackadder

Apr 8, 2007, 12:08 PM

So wait a minute....the Ferraris were supposedly faster and had pole and 4th yet both were beaten? What happened? Looks like the McLarens were faster than we thought.

Hamilton seems to be the real deal, he is driving a great car but the guys he's beating aren't chumps.

DerChef

Apr 8, 2007, 02:35 PM

Sack Massa and Räikkönen right now.

*Begins dialling the Schu to get us out of this one.

At the start of last season Ron Dennis said his drivers very not getting the best out of the package and he basically accused them of not trying.

At the time everybody said Ron was being a **** as usual and trying to deflect unfair blame from the failings of his team.

I have a feeling the Ronster is now having the last laugh :D

R.Youden

Apr 8, 2007, 02:45 PM

I think the problem with the Ferrari cars was that Kimi, at least, had to turn the wick down on his engine as it over heated in Australia after a water leak. I would be very surprised if McLaren get a 1-2 in Bahrain when all four drivers have new engines.

Lord Blackadder

Apr 8, 2007, 02:53 PM

Good point - Though Raikkonen was pushing pretty hard toward the end according to the race report.

I think Kimi can take the drivers' championship this year, but I bet Alonso gets more help from Hamilton than Kimi will get from Massa...

iGav

Apr 8, 2007, 03:14 PM

Hamilton seems to be the real deal, he is driving a great car but the guys he's beating aren't chumps.

Hamilton's made two outstanding overtaking moves on the first corners of the first two grand prix.

I just can't fathom his race pace though. It's all over the place.

It's also unbearably cringe worthy watching the race on ITV at the moment.

Button is dead, long live the... that kind of thing, though screeched like an over excited 14 year old girl at her favourite concert by a 40 something man.

I think the problem with the Ferrari cars was that Kimi, at least, had to turn the wick down on his engine as it over heated in Australia after a water leak.

Jean Todt has said that this particular precaution cost no more than 1 tenth per lap.

The problem Ferrari had is that neither of it's drivers defended their positions at the start. :rolleyes:

Then one of them slung it off the road trying to overtake, which I suppose is at least making more of an effort than the other one did. :rolleyes:

In the words of MACDRIVE... It's time. . . :mad: ;) :D :cool:

Lord Blackadder

Apr 8, 2007, 03:22 PM

Hamilton's made two outstanding overtaking moves on the first corners of the first two grand prix.

I just can't fathom his race pace though. It's all over the place.

It's also unbearably cringe worthy watching the race on ITV at the moment.

Button is dead, long live the... that kind of thing, though screeched like an over excited 14 year old girl at her favourite concert by a 40 something man.

Maybe I'm glad I couldn't watch the race then...:D

It's funny, Alonso is definitely the second driver for McLaren as far as the UK press are concerned.

In the words of MACDRIVE... It's time. . . :mad: ;) :D :cool:

Where's the necessary photo of military hardware? ;)

Maybe all that partying has finally caught up the the Iceman.

iGav

Apr 9, 2007, 09:17 AM

Where's the necessary photo of military hardware? ;)

Some would say that is exactly what Schu was. ;)

smueboy

Apr 9, 2007, 01:38 PM

Though we seem to be back to a Ferrari v McLaren competition, i think it is going to be a fairly interesting season with the two teams battling it out. I just hope that some of the other teams get in the mix, such as Renault if they get their act together.
There's too much hype about Hamilton, sure he can drive quite well, though give some credit to a good car. But his post-race interview was a bit painful.
Bring on Bahrain...

Lord Blackadder

Apr 9, 2007, 01:47 PM

Some would say that is exactly what Schu was. ;)

It's time.......:mad: :rolleyes: :eek: :D

http://prasanthtech.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/WindowsLiveWriter/DidyoumissitDontTellmeyoumissedit_11C03/Michael%20Schumacher.jpg

iGav

Apr 9, 2007, 02:12 PM

There's too much hype about Hamilton, sure he can drive quite well, though give some credit to a good car.

What I can't fathom is... are McLaren already employing team orders? or is Hamilton really that much slower than Alonso? :eek:

smueboy

Apr 9, 2007, 02:29 PM

Maybe a bit of both? Though Alonso certainly is fast.

R.Youden

Apr 9, 2007, 02:37 PM

Maybe it is time for this....

http://www.f1-blog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/WindowsLiveWriter/Michaelsaysgoodbye_CBCC/13631.jpg

:rolleyes:

On the Hamilton note, I just think that we are seeing usual media hype. Yes he has done very well but what do people expect? For anyone that has followed motor sport for more than 2 races will know what a background he had.

I was disappointed with him in the second half of the last race. He was almost a second a lap slower than Alonso on the harder tyre which isn't great by anyones standard. Now if he has a poor quali and starts 12th and finished 3rd then I will be impressed.

Lord Blackadder

Apr 9, 2007, 02:47 PM

Maybe it is time for this...

LOL. No more antics like that, unless Sato gets a drive with a frontrunner.

The tifosi are a fickle lot...Kimi is no Michael, but I think he can do the business.

I was disappointed with him in the second half of the last race. He was almost a second a lap slower than Alonso on the harder tyre which isn't great by anyones standard. Now if he has a poor quali and starts 12th and finished 3rd then I will be impressed.

That's what I want to see - we know Alonso can fight through the field, can Hamilton? Hype is fine, as long as you live up to it.

Counterfit

Apr 9, 2007, 03:02 PM

It's also unbearably cringe worthy watching the race on ITV at the moment.

Button is dead, long live the... that kind of thing, though screeched like an over excited 14 year old girl at her favourite concert by a 40 something man.

Reminds me of when Button showed up...

R.Youden

Apr 13, 2007, 08:43 AM

smueboy

Apr 13, 2007, 10:09 AM

Maybe Honda will have a chance at a podium spot now. :)

Lord Blackadder

Apr 14, 2007, 06:58 PM

1. Massa
2. Hamilton
3. Raikkonen
4. Alonso

...So, apparently Hamilton and Massa got lighter fuel loads...but it's a straight McLaren-Ferrari fight with two well-matched driver pairs.

DerChef

Apr 15, 2007, 04:55 AM

I dont think Alonso and Hamilton will "do" the Ferraris going into the first turn this time as this rarely used track has only 1 well rubbered line and with all the sand blowing onto it.

They will be doing well If they keep 2nd and 4th at the end of the first lap.

The crucial bit will be the long middle stint and who gets track position for the silly hard tyre sprint race at the end (thanks to these silly tyre rules)

:apple: :cool:

giganten

Apr 15, 2007, 02:04 PM

Good race today again.
And Kimi, Hamilton and Alonso have 22 points if I remember right.

Jasonbot

Apr 15, 2007, 02:14 PM

Pity though for Alonso, I thought he would get a pole position:mad: And also shame for Coulthard who was doing so well for a while.

Lord Blackadder

Apr 15, 2007, 10:42 PM

AlBDamned

Apr 16, 2007, 01:16 AM

After only a few days break we are now off to Bahrain for the third race of the season. Will Raikonen regain his advantage or can McLaren keep up the momentum. Anyway, seen in the paddock for the first time this weekend is Honda's new 'green' car which is said to have significant benefits over the current RA107:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3418/xpb0clskqp0tm0cqo0d5tddnc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I read that this car had really wooden steering. ;)

Gotta be impressed by Hamilton really, I hope he's got the energy to maintain his consistency. And it's great to see the McLarens actually finishing all the races too.

smueboy

Apr 17, 2007, 01:03 PM

It's hard not to drink in the hype...Hamilton may have been groomed for this and be in a very fast car but he appears to be the business...he and Massa outran Alonso and Raikkonen today.

Either way, we could easilty have a 4-way battle for the drivers' championship deep into the season.

A 4-way battle would keep things interesting. :)

I was impressed by the use of the car cameras throughout the Bahrain race - it's really nice to see much of the race from the drivers perspective (albeit a little higher), and they seemed to use that more and more lately. I presume the technology is much improved since the feed doesn't break up and drop out nearly as much as it used to. I hope they keep it up.

MacDonaldsd

Apr 17, 2007, 02:52 PM

I think a four horse race is on the cards, as long as Hamilton and Massa don't crack.

Massa has the Raw speed to be champion but he makes mistakes a bit to often.

iGav

Apr 27, 2007, 11:02 AM

Heidfeld slowed for 'Green Hell' attack (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070427110254.shtml)

F1.07 is equipped only with 'demonstration' Bridgestone tyres - which are significantly slower than the real thing.

:rolleyes: :(

iGav

Apr 29, 2007, 09:28 AM

Quick Nick at the 'Ring (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek1JUfd3R8w)

He's only tootling around... yet still the car just looks too hampered by the confines of the Nordschleife. :eek: Makes you realise how much an F1 car has progressed since '76.

I'd have still liked to have seem them go for Bellof's 6:11 record though, that would've been something. :cool:

R.Youden

May 1, 2007, 02:57 AM

13 years ago today....

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/interacao/images/2senna1024.jpg

Counterfit

May 1, 2007, 03:26 AM

13 years ago today....

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/interacao/images/2senna1024.jpg

I have a model FW-16 from Minichamps in the spec used in that race. It even has the Rothmans branding (supposedly the last model to legally have it).

Also, I want to see the full onboard from Nick's run!

NOW! C'mon Mario, snap to it!

R.Youden

May 1, 2007, 03:36 AM

I have a model FW-16 from Minichamps in the spec used in that race. It even has the Rothmans branding (supposedly the last model to legally have it).

Those models are rare and expensive now. A few years ago the UK government stopped the sale of models with tobacco branding. Those older models are true collectors items now.

iGav

May 1, 2007, 09:48 AM

Those models are rare and expensive now. A few years ago the UK government stopped the sale of models with tobacco branding. Those older models are true collectors items now.

It's easy to purchase tobacco decals to replace them though, usually they're better quality and more detailed than the original ones too.

But yeah... 13 years since Senna. :( Robbed us of potentially the greatest duel F1 had ever seen. :(

xUKHCx

May 1, 2007, 09:55 AM

It's easy to purchase tobacco decals to replace them though, usually they're better quality and more detailed than the original ones too.

But yeah... 13 years since Senna. :( Robbed us of potentially the greatest duel F1 had ever seen. :(

I remember I was coming back from watching my sister at the Royal Albert Hall when i heard the news, was so shocked. He was one of my childhood heros.

iGav

May 1, 2007, 10:38 AM

I remember I was coming back from watching my sister at the Royal Albert Hall when i heard the news, was so shocked. He was one of my childhood heros.

I was watching the race live, have to say it didn't seem like an especially serious accident initially (a big one, but not a fatal one), certainly not as severe as Bergers at the same corner 5 years previous, Berger actually almost hit the wall head on, unlike Senna.

It was only when he didn't leap out that the seriousness of the situation began to sink in, though I remember false hopes were raised by Murray after Senna's head was seen to be moving (the BBC neglected to continue coverage of Senna receiving trackside medical assistance).

In the end it was just an unfortunate accident, the result of a phenomena that has caught out many drivers before (even Senna himself in a freakishly similar accident at Mexico '91 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xcioc_OZH28)) even killing some (Gordon Smiley), had luck been on his side, he could have quite easily have gotten away with it, much like Berger and Piquet did in 1989 and 1987 respectively.

iGav

May 2, 2007, 07:48 AM

(even Senna himself in a freakishly similar accident at Mexico '91 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xcioc_OZH28))

I was discussing the Senna accident last night with a friend and I remembered that Schumacher too was caught out by a similar phenomena in Brazil (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7RBltjnlAjI), bumps upset the car, car loses downforce, back steps out, driver corrects, grip returns, car shoots off in direction the front wheels are now pointing, almost a carbon copy of Senna's accident, just at a much lower speed, with a much greater run off area.

R.Youden

May 2, 2007, 08:16 AM

This made me laugh:

Link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58461)

Maybe now that someone who they respect has spoken out against ITV they will do something!

iGav

May 2, 2007, 09:22 AM

This made me laugh:

Link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58461)

Maybe now that someone who they respect has spoken out against ITV they will do something!

What he says tis all true.

I was gutted when Bernie shut F1 Digital down. :(

R.Youden

May 3, 2007, 05:20 PM

Honda have started on some new 'developments' with the RA107. This is brilliant:

It just looks like someone has dumped a load of carbon fiber on the front nose and said, oh look we can get a few more islands from the south pacific on our car....

SpookTheHamster

May 3, 2007, 05:46 PM

I can see that being banned very quickly, possibly McLaren's new wings too. Max doesn't seem to like things like that.

R.Youden

May 4, 2007, 04:23 AM

I can see that being banned very quickly, possibly McLaren's new wings too. Max doesn't seem to like things like that.

The only reason that a lot of the big wings added to cars, like the arrows wing in Monaco, where banned was driver safety. These will be allowed to run. As will the McLaren. You can't ban something because it doesn't look nice! They need a technical reason, or for all the teams to agree, as with the old X-wing cars and I don't think this is a big enough issue for a ban.

R.Youden

May 8, 2007, 06:46 AM

Time for another sad anniversary, 25 years ago...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42884000/jpg/_42884083_gv312t3_416.jpg

iGav

May 8, 2007, 06:49 AM

Time for another sad anniversary, 25 years ago...

I just missed out on watching Gilles, I didn't start watching F1 until the following '83 season. :(

iGav

May 9, 2007, 05:58 AM

You can't ban something because it doesn't look nice! They need a technical reason, or for all the teams to agree, as with the old X-wing cars and I don't think this is a big enough issue for a ban.

They just take the aesthetic problem and wrap it up nicely in a safety argument. ;)

I actually remember the murmurings at the time of the X-Wings debacle is that the FIA wanted to ban them because they were ugly and didn't fit with the image of what an F1 car should be... then presto they played the safety card.

The same thing happened with BMW last season with those cockpit nose wings.

Anyway... looks like the FIA might have finally begun to get the idea, :D though unless they provide a corresponding increase in mechanical grip, I doubt it'll make the slightest bit of difference.

FIA considers banning winglets (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070509101630.shtml)

iGav

May 10, 2007, 10:22 AM

Valencia confirms seven-year F1 deal (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58661)

I'm not sure if a street circuit is really going to help things Bernie. :rolleyes:

SpookTheHamster

May 10, 2007, 11:26 AM

I like street circuits, they often make for some interesting racing. It'll also stem the tide of dull tracks made by a certain German.

iGav

May 10, 2007, 11:36 AM

It'll also stem the tide of dull tracks made by a certain German.

He's much maligned isn't he.

But... I do think Turkey is potentially one of the great tracks, and I can't help but feel that his revisions to the Hockenheimring have provoked far better racing than the previous incarnation.

But another street circuit... I'm just not sure, F1 is littered with a history of failed street circuits.

SpookTheHamster

May 10, 2007, 05:48 PM

Failed how? In that they didn't last, or that the racing wasn't good? I think the racing on some of the old tracks was interesting, and a little variety never hurts to keep the teams on their toes.

With regards to Mr Tilke; He is capable of good things, but most of his courses consist purely of fast straights and slow corners, and that's not fun for drivers or spectators.

R.Youden

May 10, 2007, 05:56 PM

The Valencia thing is a bit suspect. It is only valid if a local guy gets re-elected. Good one Bernie!

There does appear to be a current view to neutering circuits but that isn't what they want. Would they rather have races all-over the world, or use the best 16 tracks in Europe?

Bernie is like the pied-piper sometimes. We all must follow, even if he is leading us down a dead-end.

iGav

May 11, 2007, 05:52 AM

Failed how? In that they didn't last, or that the racing wasn't good?

Both.

Think Detroit, Phoenix, Australia, Canada... those races were/are frequently the dullest of the season.

With regards to Mr Tilke; He is capable of good things, but most of his courses consist purely of fast straights and slow corners, and that's not fun for drivers or spectators.

His formula is to try and promote overtaking. With the cars current reliance on aerodynamics it almost impossible for cars to follow closely enough through fast corners to actually be able to overtake.

Turkey is a magnificent track (so we know Tilke has it in him), but it's fortunate in that it's built on unlevel terrain and a circuit benefits from a number of undulations.

But if you ask me... the circuits are less of a problem then the cars themselves at the moment.

Aerodynamical reliance = less overtaking
Less mechanical grip = less overtaking
Rev limit = less overtaking

bartelby

May 11, 2007, 05:57 AM

But another street circuit... I'm just not sure, F1 is littered with a history of failed street circuits.

*looks misty eyed in to middle distance*

Remember the Birmingham Superprix?

iGav

May 11, 2007, 06:12 AM

Remember the Birmingham Superprix?

But that wasn't F1. ;)

Macau too...

bartelby

May 11, 2007, 06:14 AM

But that wasn't F1. ;)

Macau too...

I know it wasn't F1, there was over taking involved;)

iGav

May 11, 2007, 06:18 AM

I know it wasn't F1, there was over taking involved;)

That's because the cars were slower, they were less aerodynamically dependent and had more mechanical grip, that and there was quite a large gap between the amount of talent between the drivers.

R.Youden

May 11, 2007, 06:31 AM

Looking at the current demand for overtaking in Formula One I think that there is a fundamental issue.

Now that the teams have more power over the rule making are they going to pass a rule which may increase overtaking? The teams don't want overtaking, they want to be able to go backwards during a race and they have spent such a vast amount on aero work that the shareholders won't be happy if the £50 million on a new wind tunnel is wasted.

What the FIA needs to do is look at ways of making the issue of aerodynamics in Formula One a new challenge, ie a total revamp of the regulations, but not to remove it all together.

Maybe have a rule where all rear aero must be one piece of bodywork and non-adjustable during the race weekend. This would then put more incentive onto using the wind tunnels and computer modeling.

iGav

May 11, 2007, 07:56 AM

Singapore confirms 2008 night race (http://www.formula1.com/news/6063.html)

Blimey... tis a busy week isn't it.

<edit>Oh ******, another street race. :rolleyes:

whooleytoo

May 11, 2007, 07:57 AM

His formula is to try and promote overtaking. With the cars current reliance on aerodynamics it almost impossible for cars to follow closely enough through fast corners to actually be able to overtake.

I was at Sepang a few years back, and there was so much overtaking (relatively little at the front, mind you) that it was almost boring. Some piccies (http://homepage.mac.com/who).

They certainly produce more overtaking, but are still boring to watch as now even the tracks are being homogenised (with Turkey being the exception). I'd rather have another Spa or Suzuka than anything from Tilke. And I wasn't happy when he took the Hockenheimring (which at least provided some high-speed variety to the year) and made just yet another, same-old, same-old circuit.

Do we really want an entire season of point 'n' squirt races?

iGav

May 11, 2007, 08:09 AM

Maybe have a rule where all rear aero must be one piece of bodywork and non-adjustable during the race weekend.

Then you end up with a Can-Am car. :p

This would then put more incentive onto using the wind tunnels and computer modeling.

The incentive to refine a cars aerodyamics would still be there if we just simply balanced out the current regulations, we don't need sweeping unproven changes just ones that readdress the balance between aerodynamic and mechanical grip.

Banning winglets (and the like) and allowing for a change in the regulations to increase the cars mechanical grip would suffice.

There will still be a need for windtunnels etc, it's just that they won't have an as dramatic effect on the cars performance as they do now.

whooleytoo

May 11, 2007, 08:21 AM

Banning winglets (and the like) and allowing for a change in the regulations to increase the cars mechanical grip would suffice.

There will still be a need for windtunnels etc, it's just that they won't have an as dramatic effect on the cars performance as they do now.

Why did they switch from slicks to grooved tyres in the first place? I presume it was to increate braking distances (and thus hopefully make it easier to overtake) but I really didn't see the point in it.

iGav

May 11, 2007, 08:23 AM

I'd rather have another Spa or Suzuka than anything from Tilke.

Me too.

What I don't want is more street circuits that are detrimental to racing though.

And I wasn't happy when he took the Hockenheimring (which at least provided some high-speed variety to the year) and made just yet another, same-old, same-old circuit.

The old Hockenheimring was classic, but the races were just so dull. Don't forget though that Hockenheim had been neutered long before Tilke got his hands on it though, with the additions of chicanes and the stadium section.

Do we really want an entire season of point 'n' squirt races?

No. But nor do I want a season of processional races on circuits that with the current regulations make it near impossible to overtake on the track.

And it would appear that with the additions of Valencia and Singapore this is exactly the direction we're going in.

iGav

May 11, 2007, 08:25 AM

Why did they switch from slicks to grooved tyres in the first place? I presume it was to increate braking distances (and thus hopefully make it easier to overtake) but I really didn't see the point in it.

Reduced cornering speeds.

There were a lot of rash changes to F1 after Imola '94, tyres and the reduction in ride height being two of them.

R.Youden

May 11, 2007, 08:26 AM

Why did they switch from slicks to grooved tyres in the first place? I presume it was to increate braking distances (and thus hopefully make it easier to overtake) but I really didn't see the point in it.

The idea was to reduce the grip in the tires and slow down cornering speeds. It was also implemented when the sport went from one to two tyre manufacturers so both companies had to design a new tyre an no-one had an advantage.

SpookTheHamster

May 11, 2007, 11:04 AM

It should be the cars that promote overtaking, not the tracks. If he designs all the tracks like he does now, we'll end up with hundreds of identical tracks across the world, almost all with no personality.

Drivers don't enjoy those tracks, they like tracks like Brands Hatch with elevation changes and mid/high speed corners.

Change the cars, because if you wreck the tracks they'll be wrecked forever.

R.Youden

May 11, 2007, 11:07 AM

whooleytoo

May 11, 2007, 11:45 AM

Me too.

What I don't want is more street circuits that are detrimental to racing though.

The way I see it, most races are pretty boring at the moment anyway. At least with a street circuit the cars look spectacular; they're not pointing 'n' squirting on a track 50m of gravel trap away from the nearest barrier or spectator.

The old Hockenheimring was classic, but the races were just so dull. Don't forget though that Hockenheim had been neutered long before Tilke got his hands on it though, with the additions of chicanes and the stadium section.

I actually never saw the pre-chicane Hockenheim though I was aware of the changes. There was an interesting element to Hockenheim even after those changes though - it was quite a challenge to come up with a low-downforce setup suitable for the straights that didn't penalise you enormously in the stadium section. It became quite a balancing act which the teams often got wrong.

And I recall quite a few races there where one or more of the front runners had to start from the back and had a spectacular race making their way up through the field - which you can do at that circuit if you have the pace.

No. But nor do I want a season of processional races on circuits that with the current regulations make it near impossible to overtake on the track.

And it would appear that with the additions of Valencia and Singapore this is exactly the direction we're going in.

Well, you're not going to have an enormous amount of overtaking when qualifying puts the fastest cars at the front and the teams have achieved a level of consistency that means cars that perform well in qualifying tend to perform well in the race as well.

whooleytoo

May 11, 2007, 11:53 AM

Reduced cornering speeds.

There were a lot of rash changes to F1 after Imola '94, tyres and the reduction in ride height being two of them.

The idea was to reduce the grip in the tires and slow down cornering speeds. It was also implemented when the sport went from one to two tyre manufacturers so both companies had to design a new tyre an no-one had an advantage.

Cheers.

Reduced stability through corners just seems so incompatible with overtaking. If the driver in front is struggling for grip, how on earth is the lunatic diving down the inside going to fare any better?

smueboy

May 12, 2007, 12:00 PM

Valencia confirms seven-year F1 deal (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58661)

I'm not sure if a street circuit is really going to help things Bernie. :rolleyes:

"The Spanish government on Friday accused Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone of insulting Spain (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58699) by conditioning Valencia's new European Grand Prix on an electoral victory for a conservative opposition party"

Massa has beaten Alonso to pole in Spain, so hopefully it will be an interesting race.

R.Youden

May 12, 2007, 03:31 PM

"The Spanish government on Friday accused Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone of insulting Spain (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58699) by conditioning Valencia's new European Grand Prix on an electoral victory for a conservative opposition party"

Massa has beaten Alonso to pole in Spain, so hopefully it will be an interesting race.

Barcelona and interesting race are two words that don't go together!

They all do so many 1000's of miles that every team and driver has the perfect set-up so you don't really get many good races. I doubt that this new chicane they have put in will make any difference, but you never know...

Counterfit

May 12, 2007, 06:32 PM

Singapore confirms 2008 night race (http://www.formula1.com/news/6063.html)

Blimey... tis a busy week isn't it.

<edit>Oh ******, another street race. :rolleyes:

From the article: The timing of the night event means it can be broadcast at a convenient time for European TV audiences as well as thrilling local fans.

**** European TV audiences! I stay up until 3AM for Malaysia, and get up (or try) at 7AM for all the European rounds. I get Brazil and Montreal in my own time zone, and Indy an hour behind me. And California has it worse!

Counterfit

May 12, 2007, 10:15 PM

Barcelona and interesting race are two words that don't go together!

Unless someone gets stuck in 5th gear again.

mfacey

May 13, 2007, 05:40 AM

R.Youden

May 13, 2007, 11:58 AM

Its funny how everybody in this thread complains bitterly about how dull F1 can be, yet we still sit in front of the TV every other sunday to watch the race. Maybe we just stay hoping that we'll catch a really excellent race (which happens maybe 2 or 3 times per season). Wishful thinking really :rolleyes:

Just to chime in on the street circuit discussion. I think they're very dull with respect to overtaking but the major attraction is the carnage of course! There's nothing more amusing than a rainy grand prix in Monaco, right?:)

You are very true with what you are saying. I suppose the reason I watch is due to people and machine being pushed to the very limit and risking their lives day-in - day-out so it is a real buzz for me. I must admit I get nervous at the start of each race.

Also I do have an extra interest in how Honda do, but this season it isn't too much to shout about!

AlBDamned

May 13, 2007, 05:17 PM

Also I do have an extra interest in how Honda do, but this season it isn't too much to shout about!

Hope you're supporting the Super Aguri cars and not Honda's second string squad with Button and co. ;-)

iGav

May 14, 2007, 07:18 AM

The one thing you can be sure of with Barcelona, is that it highlights beautifully what is wrong with a modern F1 car on a track with lots of fast, sweeping corners. :(

Absolutely lovin' Hamilton spanking Alonso. :p

link92

May 17, 2007, 01:39 PM

The one thing you can be sure of with Barcelona, is that it highlights beautifully what is wrong with a modern F1 car on a track with lots of fast, sweeping corners. :(

They still have those? :D

I'm sad to see the end of the lap changed — it was undoubtedly interesting to watch cars trying to go full throttle around there.

R.Youden

May 18, 2007, 04:17 AM

Hope you're supporting the Super Aguri cars and not Honda's second string squad with Button and co. ;-)

Thats true! Most of the work that I did with Honda will be in the Super Aguri rather than the Honda. I never thought I would say this, come on Taku!

iGav

May 18, 2007, 05:42 AM

FIA to work with car makers on F1 shake-up (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58892)

Greatest hits includes...

• 2.2 litre Turbo V6 running on biofuel
• 13 seconds per lap power boost
• 10,000rpm limit
• 4WD
• Traction Control

:eek: :eek: :D :cool:

In particular the technical awe of Formula One and its sheer speed must be retained.

:cool:

Father Jack

May 18, 2007, 06:20 AM

Absolutely lovin' Hamilton spanking Alonso. :p

Ohhh YES. Alonso's face was like a Bulldog's ar*e. :)

FJ

iGav

May 18, 2007, 01:29 PM

McLaren plays down Alonso struggle (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070518134818.shtml)

The Times, however, is reporting claims that Alonso demanded that McLaren preclude Hamilton from the Paul Ricard test line-up this week - only to be excluded himself.

I wonder if it's true? I read similar claims about Alonso having Hamilton excluded from the Barcelona test immediately prior to last weekends Spanish GP.

Lord Blackadder

May 18, 2007, 09:51 PM

FIA to work with car makers on F1 shake-up (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58892)

This sounds like game over for Formula One as a credible flagship motorsport. :(

R.Youden

May 19, 2007, 04:06 AM

I don't know if these new rules will be that bad. Formula One is all about making a car go fast within certain regulations and at what level these rules are set doesn't affect the fans too much.

What is the problem of a bio fuel car if it laps at the same speed as a normal car?

Also with regard to Alonso, maybe he is turning into the next Senna, didn't he block Warrick at Lotus because he thought that he was too good? Alosno he feeling the heat, there is no doubt about that. What will happen when Hamilton wins a race and starts to pull away from Alosno in the championship?

Lord Blackadder

May 19, 2007, 09:03 AM

What will happen when Hamilton wins a race and starts to pull away from Alosno in the championship?

This is increasingly seen as being inevitable by all and sundry...the more he lives up to the hype, the more hype there will be.

R.Youden

May 19, 2007, 09:47 AM

This is increasingly seen as being inevitable by all and sundry...the more he lives up to the hype, the more hype there will be.

I think he has a good chance at Monaco.

Ferrari have not done well there the last few years and Hamilton has only every won when he has raced there before! Get £5 on the lad!

smueboy

May 21, 2007, 09:59 AM

More night race rumours:

Australian Grand Prix may be run at night (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1928549.htm).

iGav

May 26, 2007, 07:32 AM

Schumi + 599 GTB + Nordschleife = (http://www.autocar.co.uk/contentImages/Car/Ferrari/599/GTBFiorano2drCoupe/25577125742.jpg) :eek: :D :cool:

Rinky dink link (http://www.autocarmag.com/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/225794/)

Great to see the Scuderia return to a deeper, darker red... not quite Rosso Corsa, but still... beautiful (http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/73959) all the same. :cool:

Lord Blackadder

May 26, 2007, 11:20 AM

Sweet! Schumi bombing around the 'ring in a road car...very cool.

Nice color change on the Ferraris, though I've liked most of their livery schemes over the last few years.

Looks like Alonso will win the Monaco parade, unless he has mechanical troubles.

xUKHCx

May 27, 2007, 09:59 AM

Good victory form Alonso, never looked like losing it at all. Where were the Ferraris, way off pace. Hamilton got another respectable 2nd, looks like Mclaren are going to take constructors.

Lord Blackadder

May 27, 2007, 10:02 AM

Monaco sounds glamorous, but the race is over after quali, barring a crash...With Alonso and Hamilton in P1 and 2 you knew that's how it would end as long as the cars held up...I mean, where the hell can you pass someone on that track?

All the websites describe the race as an entertaining "duel" between Hamilton and Alonso - and yet go on to describe how Hamilton had no chance of overtaking his teammate due to the track...

xUKHCx

May 27, 2007, 10:06 AM

Monaco sounds glamorous, but the race is over after quali, barring a crash...With Alonso and Hamilton in P1 and 2 you knew that's how it would end as long as the cars held up...I mean, where the hell can you pass someone on that track?

IN my view there is only really 1 good overtaking place in the braking zone just after the tunnel as there is always an out there so gives more confidence to go for it, but you are right. Still reckon that Ferrari needed to be a lot closer than 1.09 mins closer to Alonso.

iGav

May 27, 2007, 11:56 AM

Could've been such a great race, were it not for McLaren teamorders. :rolleyes:

Disappointed about Ferrari... a combination of factors seem to have played their part in their uncompetitiveness, Massa has always struggled there... and I really don't know what the ****** is going on with Kimi, but not only is Massa spanking him for pure speed, Kimi just doesn't look like he's bothering in the races either. :rolleyes:

Father Jack

May 27, 2007, 12:04 PM

More night race rumours:

Australian Grand Prix may be run at night (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1928549.htm).
Headlights on a F1 car? :confused:

FJ

iGav

May 27, 2007, 12:10 PM

Headlights on a F1 car? :confused:

FJ

Nope. Track lights. They already do it stateside in some of their races series.

It's a gimmick. That is only being considered because of the drop in audience figures for those races in the 9-11 hours ahead time zones.

That said... they should be allowed to bring back titanium skid blocks under the cars, like the '80's and '90's... for these night races. :D

Lord Blackadder

May 27, 2007, 05:13 PM

Team orders suck. :mad:

Even at Monaco...

iGav

May 28, 2007, 07:58 AM

Team orders suck. :mad:

It wouldn't be so bad were it not for McLarens almost incessant insistance that they let their drivers race. :rolleyes:

Dennis: We decided Alonso would win (http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/05/28/dennis_we_decided_alonso_would_win/)

Truly disgusting. Even less of a race than Austria 2002 IMHO.

Did you see Hamilton in qualifying? he was really hanging the car out with oversteer... and drifting through the swimming pool... :eek: I'm becomming more of a fan of his everytime he gets in the car. Incredible car control... and he seems to have the legs on Alonso for raw pace too, which is even better. :D He'd be perfect in a red car. :D

iGav

May 28, 2007, 08:12 AM

McLaren team orders under investigation (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59249).

:D :D :D :D :D :D

MOFS

May 28, 2007, 08:31 AM

Team orders suck. :mad:

Even at Monaco...

Especially when both drivers are power sliding in order to eek out an extra tenth.:eek:

mfacey

May 28, 2007, 03:35 PM

Never knew the safety cars do some timed laps before every race aswell!

Check out this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BorYVg8nkbs

I'm amazed that C-class AMG is faster than the CLK DTM. I'm assuming its a C55AMG vs. a CLK 63AMG DTM. The CLK should be much fast, but maybe the dude driving the medical car is just a better driver. :rolleyes:

Lord Blackadder

May 28, 2007, 05:21 PM

All I can say about Hamilton is that, so far, he is pretty much living up to the hype. Which is saying a lot. :D

I don't care what Dennis says, what McLaren did at Monaco was a clear case of team orders...if they aren't racing because they have been ordered not to, they are breaking the rules.

iGav

May 29, 2007, 10:09 AM

Never knew the safety cars do some timed laps before every race aswell!

It's brilliant isn't it... :D

I'm amazed that C-class AMG is faster than the CLK DTM. I'm assuming its a C55AMG vs. a CLK 63AMG DTM. The CLK should be much fast, but maybe the dude driving the medical car is just a better driver. :rolleyes:

The Safety Car isn't actually the DTM version, it's just a CLK65 AMG, and is just fractionally quicker than the Medical Car (C55 AMG) on their timed laps. ;) :p

I don't think either have any particular engine mods, though as far as I understand it, both run uprated suspension and race spec brakes.

I don't care what Dennis says, what McLaren did at Monaco was a clear case of team orders...if they aren't racing because they have been ordered not to, they are breaking the rules.

We should find out by the end of the week apparently. :D

bartelby

May 29, 2007, 10:14 AM

I'm amazed that C-class AMG is faster than the CLK DTM. I'm assuming its a C55AMG vs. a CLK 63AMG DTM. The CLK should be much fast, but maybe the dude driving the medical car is just a better driver. :rolleyes:

The old CL55 AMG F1 was awesome!
You could buy a road version for around £150K.

mfacey

May 29, 2007, 10:36 AM

The old CL55 AMG F1 was awesome!
You could buy a road version for around £150K.

So true, only the CL has always been regarded a bit of a drug-dealer/pimp car.

I'm surprised they don't just use a Mercedes McLaren SLR as the safety car. Its the best high performance road car Mercedes makes!

bartelby

May 29, 2007, 10:40 AM

I'm surprised they don't just use a Mercedes McLaren SLR as the safety car. Its the best high performance road car Mercedes makes!

But a bit expensive on the occasions the driver stuffs the safety car into the wall.

mfacey

May 29, 2007, 10:47 AM

But a bit expensive on the occasions the driver stuffs the safety car into the wall.

Hmmm yeah, I guess, although I don't think that happens all too often. Its a lot more expensive when Alonso or Hamilton stuff their Mercs into a wall ;)

bartelby

May 29, 2007, 10:48 AM

Hmmm yeah, I guess, although I don't think that happens all too often. Its a lot more expensive when Alonso or Hamilton stuff their Mercs into a wall ;)

Safety cars crashing is quite common. You'd be surprised.
But yes, cheap compared to F1 cars.

iGav

May 30, 2007, 09:55 AM

McLaren cleared. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59282)

Lord Blackadder

Jun 3, 2007, 09:30 AM

After reading the explanation I guess it makes sense, but the reality of it is that people not racing each other (for whatever reason) makes for boring races.

R.Youden

Jun 6, 2007, 06:34 PM

Well off to Canada next. I always like the track and normally we get some quite good races there. There is one chicane at the top of the circuit which was great on the old PC games as you could go so fast through there. Also who will get caught up in the "Wall of Champions" this year?

Lord Blackadder

Jun 10, 2007, 02:26 PM

Kubica has had a bad crash (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39543)...sounds like he's not dangerously injured, but he hit hard.

AdeFowler

Jun 10, 2007, 02:27 PM

Looking good for Lewis though. Fingers crossed.

MacDonaldsd

Jun 10, 2007, 02:28 PM

Alonso doing great round the first corner this afternoon.

MalcolmJID

Jun 10, 2007, 02:35 PM

Safety car's had a lot of action today!

MalcolmJID

Jun 10, 2007, 02:49 PM

Whoooo! Well done Hamilton!

Sato on the last couple of laps too! He got past Alonso!

OllyW

Jun 10, 2007, 02:50 PM

Faultless drive from Lewis, well done :D

AdeFowler

Jun 10, 2007, 02:51 PM

Phew! What a drive, what a future.

Lord Blackadder

Jun 10, 2007, 02:54 PM

Sato passed Alonso...what broke on Alonso's car? I can't believe he was just slower...!

Congrats to Hamilton, he continues to live up to the hype. Probably won't hear much of Jense anymore unlless he starts winning races.

MacDonaldsd

Jun 10, 2007, 02:55 PM

Sato passed Alonso...what broke on Alonso's car? I can't believe he was just slower...

Under tray I think. Where he kept going off at turn 1.

BoyBach

Jun 10, 2007, 03:02 PM

It's good to hear that ITV's James Allen isn't getting carried away at all. Something along the line of "the best race he's seen in 17 years."

Are you sure? The 'highlight' was Kubica's horrific crash.

Regardless, well done to Lewis Hamilton.

iGav

Jun 10, 2007, 03:11 PM

what broke on Alonso's car?

Fred did... ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Seriously though... Sato was on the hards (softs) whilst Fred was stuck on the super softs, giving Sato a massive grip advantage. ;)

Lewis was awesome today... to think, this kid is this good only 6 races in... :eek: :eek: :eek:

As for Ferrari... get Schumacher back in the car. NOW!

Still can't get over Fred though... ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

SpookTheHamster

Jun 10, 2007, 03:16 PM

That was a fantastic race, one of the best in a long time.

I was so glad to hear that Kubica was OK, he looked so much like he could have suffered a broken neck, but all he got was a broken leg.

Highlight and major surprise for me was Super Aguri. Davidson running 3rd at one point and Sato passing Alonso on the brakes into the final chicane!

Williams are back into it as well, hopefully a little bit of success will get them going again

edit: Why is everybody surprised that Hamilton won? He's been a great driver in pretty much everything he's raced, and he's in the best car. It's not a surprise at all. This isn't his 6th race in anything ever, it's his 6th race in this car after thousands of miles of testing.

Counterfit

Jun 10, 2007, 03:42 PM

SpookTheHamster

Jun 10, 2007, 03:47 PM

And does anyone else think a black flag for leaving the pits under safety car is a bit excessive? I would think a 10-sec stop/go would be enough.

No, a red light is a red light. Don't forget that they also went past other cars who were waiting for the light to turn green.

aerove

Jun 10, 2007, 03:47 PM

Good job for Hamilton. He had it won from the first corner. (Well, at least according to the live timing archive, because VCRs ****ING SUCK ASS.). Wurz riding the one stopper to a podium, and Nick making BMW's day not completely suck.

Oh yeah, and SATO going around the OUTSIDE Alonslow! HAHA! :D

And does anyone else think a black flag for leaving the pits under safety car is a bit excessive? I would think a 10-sec stop/go would be enough.

yea,, the black flag was too much for massa and fisci... massa could have ended up with a podium position if else.. on the whole a very bad day for ferrari.. and kimi is so screwed up!!! he was soo good back at mclaren .. dunno whats buggin him at ferrari...i think he is too drunk to drive..:D

BoyBach

Jun 10, 2007, 03:53 PM

Seriously though... Sato was on the hards (softs) whilst Fred was stuck on the super softs, giving Sato a massive grip advantage. ;)

Highlight and major surprise for me was Super Aguri. Davidson running 3rd at one point and Sato passing Alonso on the brakes into the final chicane!

I believe that Alonso let Sato through unchallenged. Given Sato's, erm, reputation.

;)

Still, it's nice to see Super Aguri kicking Hondas arse at the moment.

iGav

Jun 10, 2007, 04:16 PM

I believe that Alonso let Sato through unchallenged. Given Sato's, erm, reputation.

;)

I'm sure that was part of it... heh, but Sato had the line, had Alonso tried to hold position he would've missed the chicane and would've had to give up the place anyway, either that or Sato would've just taken him the next lap, SA were just super cheeky with their stops meaning they were on the best tyres for the last stint. :p

Still, it's nice to see Super Aguri kicking Hondas arse at the moment.

And to be beaten by their own year old car too. :p

Still can't get over Fred though... ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

How much do you want bet... if Ferrari don't improve come Indy, they'll throw a boatload of cash at Schumacher to get back behind the wheel at Fiorano to sort the car out??? Schumi's coming back baby. ;) :D

Lord Blackadder

Jun 10, 2007, 04:33 PM

So is it the car or the drivers? Kimi sucks right now, so I'm inclined to believe it's the drivers.

Hamilton looks set to win the drivers' championship - only "Fred" can do anything about it.

BoyBach

Jun 10, 2007, 04:41 PM

So is it the car or the drivers? Kimi sucks right now, so I'm inclined to believe it's the drivers.

Hamilton looks set to win the drivers' championship - only "Fred" can do anything about it.

If I were a betting man I'd put my £5 on Alonso for the Championship.

R.Youden

Jun 10, 2007, 04:49 PM

Great race by Lewis. Kept his head whilst all around him where losing there's. Etc etc...

Kubica was one lucky bloke. That looked VERY bad. I used to work with a guy who was radio man Luciano Burti. When he had the smash at Spa in 2001 he swallowed the microphone so no-one cold communicate with him. That was a very scary crash but I thought todays was worse.

Luckily he only appears to have a broken leg.

iGav

Jun 10, 2007, 04:58 PM

R.Youden

Jun 10, 2007, 05:08 PM

Has anyone seen the close ups of Kubica's car during the crash? :eek: You can see his feet after the initial impact. :eek:

He's very lucky that the secondary impact wasn't head on too. :eek:

I suspect the FIA will demand further reinforcement and crash testing to help protect in a frontal impact, if not this season, then certainly for the 2008 one.

Autosport were/are reporting that BMW-Sauber/Mario Theissen are still not aware of Kubica's condition.

Yeah McLaren told Lewis (who are good friends) that he had a broken leg.

I don't they they can do too much about the impact tests. They certainly can't do anything this year. They just keep increasing the strength of the impact tests but you can only protect against so much.

R.Youden

Jun 10, 2007, 06:01 PM

You can see his feet here:

Lord Blackadder

Jun 10, 2007, 06:07 PM

Yeah, I saw that...scary. :eek:

EDIT: Looks like Kubica was actually unhurt in the crash...

BoyBach

Jun 11, 2007, 04:46 AM

BMW have said that Kubica "escaped relatively unscathed" from his crash. A sprained ankle, no less!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6739431.stm

iGav

Jun 11, 2007, 06:45 AM

EDIT: Looks like Kubica was actually unhurt in the crash...

Classic example of what loose lips sans the facts can do isn't it, the source of the broken leg report was as R.Youden said, the McLaren radio after Lewis had won (ITV went to adverts just as the guy was saying he'd "broken...") and this was seemingly then reported as gospel by the worlds media completely ignoring BMW-Sauber who were reporting that they hadn't any news on his condition. :rolleyes:

Still, I expect we'll see a tyre wall, maybe even a SAFER barrier sited there next year, and I expect we'll see changes to and an increase in the length of the front of monocoque with further reinforcement of the footwell area, as this seems to be the only weak area of the current generation of monocoques.

whooleytoo

Jun 11, 2007, 07:06 AM

Still, I expect we'll see a tyre wall, maybe even a SAFER barrier sited there next year, and I expect we'll see changes to and an increase in the length of the front of monocoque with further reinforcement of the footwell area, as this seems to be the only weak area of the current generation of monocoques.

Are monocoque changes necessary? It looked to me like Kubica's monocoque did its job superbly well, in (almost) the worst case scenario for a crash - nearly head on into a non-deformable concrete barrier at ~200mph/320kph (since he had little chance to brake being airborne!).

The nose cone too is designed to deform to absorb the energy of the impact, and worked well.

iGav

Jun 11, 2007, 08:10 AM

Are monocoque changes necessary?

When the tub is compromised like that, I'd say so.

It looked to me like Kubica's monocoque did its job superbly well, in (almost) the worst case scenario for a crash - nearly head on into a non-deformable concrete barrier at ~200mph/320kph (since he had little chance to brake being airborne!).

The nose cone too is designed to deform to absorb the energy of the impact, and worked well.

It did do it's job well, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have done it even better.

Had his secondary impact into the barrier been at a different angle, it's not inconceivable that he'd have lost both of his feet. And that is cause for concern. In this case he was extremely fortunate.

This accident exposed a potential weakness with regards to the current design and construction of the current generation of monocoques, and one that should be rectified to further protect the driver.

displaced

Jun 11, 2007, 08:42 AM

No, a red light is a red light. Don't forget that they also went past other cars who were waiting for the light to turn green.

Absolutey. Red means stop. The two drivers would have had no idea why the light was still red. Even with input from the teams via the radio, an individual team may not know the reason for the red light.

In a sport where there could be marshals, debris or cars in dangerous places, it's absolutely critical that every driver follows the signalling as set by the race director. At the end of the day, the race safety buck stops with him. If he's closed the exit from the pitlane, then it's closed -- end of story.

The black flag was entirely appropriate. The violation the two drivers wasn't simply ignoring a red light, it was disregarding the authority of the race director to control car movement in the interest of safety and the sport.

R.Youden

Jun 12, 2007, 06:02 PM

Thinking about it we can draw a few things from this weekend:

1) The cars are bloody safe! If you make the crash structure at the front any bigger then you get complications with weight distribution which could be detrimental to safety as a whole. What the FIA tend to do is monitor the progression of carbon composite design and increase the crash test loads accordingly so the nose cone is stronger, but not heavier.

2) They need to do something about the refueling and Safety Car scenario. Alosno (and someone else) where screwed because they HAD to stop on the first lap after a safety car came out. If they had waited they would have run out of fuel. I suppose the only way around this is to provide confidential stratergy information in real-time to the FIA who can make the call if someone comes into pit excessively early.

3) Lewis is a very smooth driver who will be a great champion. To go to a difficult circuit (how many times did Alonso and Kimi make mistakes) which is very bumpy and go so fast is amazing. And he didn't have the best of luck with the safety car either... Go job Lewis.

mfacey

Jun 13, 2007, 04:43 AM

Just watched a downloaded version of Fox's coverage of the GP (was away for the weekend). Let me just add that the commentators on Fox are absolutely horrible (the two english guys are okay, but the American needs to go find a different job). And all the commercials drove me crazy.

Nonetheless, an extraordinary race. Hamilton and Heidfeld were pretty much the only drivers in the top that held onto their positions. Its been a long time since I've seen such a chaotic race, especially in the dry!

Massa and Fisi getting black-flagged was definitely the correct thing for the stewards to do. The blatant disregard of the rules could easily have caused a dangerous situation. Wonder if they'll get fined too?

Project

Jun 13, 2007, 04:46 AM

Alonso has been making some real greasy comments about McClaren/Lewis the past few days

R.Youden

Jun 13, 2007, 05:10 AM

Alonso doesn't like it now he has a team-mate that can compete with him week-in-week-out. Fissi had some great races but on the whole was around 0.25 per lap slower, sometimes even more.

If Alonso is to be a great (Schumacher, Senna, Prost) then he will have to rise to this challenge and beat Hamilton this year. I fear that if Hamilton wins the Championship then that will be the end of Alonso. It will be a crushing blow and he will struggle to bounce back. This season is not only a huge test for Hamilton, but as we have seen in the past few weeks, a massive test for Alonso. I would love to see them racing wheel-to-wheel sometime soon. Imagine the reaction if Hamilton passes Alonso in the way he did during the GP2 race at Silverstone last year (I know he didn't pass Alonso, it was some other GP2 guy!)

Lord Blackadder

Jun 17, 2007, 03:25 PM

So who saw the race? Was it a good one? This season looks set to be an all-McLaren battle.

mfacey

Jun 17, 2007, 03:49 PM

Was a decent enough race. There was a lot happening in the mid-field. But up ahead, besides Alonso's nail-biting attempt to slipstream past Hamilton, it wasn't that special.

Great win for Hamilton though. This time no one could argue it was a chaotic and unusual race. He was definitely the fastest man on the track. Not a single error either (unlike Alonso!).

It looks like BMW is getting closer and closer to Ferrari as well (who are consequently moving further and further away from McLaren). I'm hoping Ferrari gets back on track to becoming a race winning contender soon. A three way battle for the driver's title would be great.

On the other hand it looks like Hamilton and Alonso really are very close in skill and capacity to win. The car is reliable and very fast. I wouldn't know who to put my money on for the championship between Lewis and Fernando!

Lord Blackadder

Jun 17, 2007, 03:57 PM

I was hoping for a more wide-open championship, but Ferrari has no answer to McLaren and Renault has slipped almost to mid-pack.

mfacey

Jun 17, 2007, 04:00 PM

I was hoping for a more wide-open championship, but Ferrari has no answer to McLaren and Renault has slipped almost to mid-pack.

Yeah, the season looked very enticing after the first few races, but the McLaren dominance is really starting to show. Its kind of a pity. On the other hand, the prospect of Hamilton winning the championship his debut year is quite interesting to say the least! :eek:

iGav

Jun 20, 2007, 01:35 PM

Kubica's crash data disclosed (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59988).

Data showed the Pole impacted against the wall at 230 km/h, and the G-forces on Kubica peaked at around 75 G in a millisecond.

So that's around 140ish in old money isn't it.

Considering the damage to the car, I thought it would've been in the 160-170 region, though far, far short of 200mph because the cars only exceed that towards the end of the back straight.

Counterfit

Jun 20, 2007, 01:52 PM

When the tub is compromised like that, I'd say so.

It did do it's job well, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have done it even better.

Had his secondary impact into the barrier been at a different angle, it's not inconceivable that he'd have lost both of his feet. And that is cause for concern. In this case he was extremely fortunate.

This accident exposed a potential weakness with regards to the current design and construction of the current generation of monocoques, and one that should be rectified to further protect the driver.

I think the reason we can see his feet is because there's a cover there to provide access to the pedals for adjustment.

Lord Blackadder

Jun 20, 2007, 05:54 PM

I can't look at those pictures of Kubica's feet exposed without thinking about Alex Zanardi's accident...to hit a wall at 140mph and walk away is a a testament to the crashworthiness of the car.

smueboy

Jun 21, 2007, 04:43 PM

Formula one is front page (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v447/n7147/edsumm/e070621-01.html) news in Nature magazine this week:

How green is this?

On the cover, McLaren's sensational rookie Lewis Hamilton leads Kimi Räikkönen's Ferrari in Montreal, en route to the first of his back-to-back wins in North America. Hamilton's chosen sport is hardly 'green', based as it is on carting machinery and personnel all over the world to drive around in circles. But, in the tradition of 'improving the breed' that brought disc brakes into automotive use, there are ambitious plans to recast the formula as a force for technological good. From 2009, new regulations will reduce the environmental impact of the sport, and introduce kinetic energy recovery systems to use energy otherwise wasted during deceleration. Later changes will involve recovering energy lost as heat. The combination of fierce competition, talented technicians and big research budgets should drive the technology forward in ways that may ultimately benefit road cars. Andreas Trabesinger interviews F1's Max Mosley, the man behind the new formula.

News Feature: Formula 1 racing: Power games
Can motor racing go green? Andreas Trabesinger asked Max Mosley, head of Formula 1, how he wants the sport to develop energy-efficient technology that will also work in road cars.

Unfortunately the article is not online yet.

takao

Jun 21, 2007, 06:08 PM

since le mans has been finally turned into a turbo diesel competition this year (and despite diesel powered cars getting handicapped by a roughly 10% smaller fuel tank thus resulting in more mandatory stops) it's hardly surprising to see more and more stuff introduced in all racing leagues

Counterfit

Jun 21, 2007, 06:44 PM

Schumi confirmed for RoC (http://www.formula1.com/news/6327.html)!

AlBDamned

Jun 21, 2007, 11:32 PM

Schumi confirmed for RoC (http://www.formula1.com/news/6327.html)!

...will take place in the UK in December...

It'll likely be wet so Schumacher will have a decent chance. Better than Coulthard or Button. Would be nice to see then World Champ Lewis Hamilton spank him though ;).

iGav

Jun 22, 2007, 06:06 AM

Ferrari initiate criminal enquiry against Nigel Stepney (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60025)

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Lord Blackadder

Jun 22, 2007, 05:35 PM

Sounds as if it's likely to be another case of stealing technical data. no?

link92

Jun 25, 2007, 09:31 AM

I can't look at those pictures of Kubica's feet exposed without thinking about Alex Zanardi's accident...to hit a wall at 140mph and walk away is a a testament to the crashworthiness of the car.

That's exactly what I thought of first. What if the crash was slightly different? What if the final impact was slightly harder? What would have happened?

iGav

Jun 25, 2007, 09:50 AM

Sounds as if it's likely to be another case of stealing technical data. no?

Who knows, though there's been some real classic cold war'esque espionage stories doing the rounds. :eek: :p

What if the crash was slightly different?

To be honest it was a freak accident... that can be partially attributed to flaws on the circuit (the initial bump on the grass, the angle of the concrete wall, lack of SAFER etc).

But that said, the last thing F1 should become is complacent with regards to safety. The impact speed was significantly less than what these cars are capable of achieving and the resultant impact exposed weaknesses in the current cars design and construction that need to be addressed.

F1 is of course inherently dangerous, and the risks will almost certainly continue to exist as long as F1 does. But that doesn't mean that they should not continue to try and reduce them by considering accidents such as these as stark reminders of what can potentially go wrong.

F1 dodged a bullet that day.

link92

Jun 25, 2007, 02:49 PM

To be honest it was a freak accident... that can be partially attributed to flaws on the circuit (the initial bump on the grass, the angle of the concrete wall, lack of SAFER etc).
IMO as long as the cars race there, they must be safe to drive there. If that car was going quicker (as they will get over the years), who knows what would've happened?

iGav

Jun 27, 2007, 03:53 PM

World Motor Sport Council proposals include: (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60207)

Active wings, active ride height, pump standard biofuels... and on, and on, and on.

World Motor Sport Council proposals include:

Engine efficiency

To limit engine power by imposing a maximum energy flow rate. However, there will be few restrictions on the engine cycle, which can include turbo-charging and energy recovery. It is believed that this will lead to a gain of at least 20% in thermal efficiency.

Drag

To allow moving aerodynamic devices, which will reduce drag by over 50% and allow a 40% reduction in the power required to maintain current speeds.

Energy recovery

Energy will be recovered during braking and returned to both front and rear axles when accelerating. The amount of energy returned on each straight will be limited in order to prevent top speeds exceeding the safety criteria for the circuits.

Fuel

The total amount of fuel energy to be consumed during a race will be regulated, encouraging further overall efficiency. The CO2 emitted will be further reduced by the introduction of gasoline which is partly derived from sustainable, non-food bio sources but complies fully with pump fuel legislation.

Overtaking

Formula One cars currently find it very difficult to overtake because of the influence of the car in front. New aerodynamic rules will halve the downforce, and de-sensitise the car to the influence of the wake of the car ahead. It is also proposed to eliminate automatically the downforce deficit of the following car.

Regulations

The best estimates of what these measures will mean in terms of regulations are currently as follows:
• 1.3-1.5 litre, 4-cylinder engine;
• no RPM or boost limit;
• energy flow rate to generate 300kW, including energy recovery from the exhaust;
• 200kW brake energy recovery, front and rear axle;
• 400-600kJ energy return per straight;
• pump-legal bio-fuel;
• FIA specified and supplied undertray and possibly other aerodynamic components;
• 50% 2007 downforce;
• adjustable, regulated wings and cooling;
• automatic downforce adjustment when following another car;
• lap times and top speeds maintained at 2009 levels;
• over 50% reduction in fuel consumed.

Costs

A number of measures to constrain costs are proposed, including:
• standardisation of components;
• homologation of components and assemblies;
• material restrictions;
• extended life of assemblies;
• restrictions on personnel and work at races;
• restrictions on the use of certain facilities (eg wind tunnels).

R.Youden

Jun 28, 2007, 06:09 PM

Ferrari finally work out why they are struggling with the new Bridgestone rubber:

R.Youden

Jun 29, 2007, 04:45 AM

****Breaking News****

As of 09.44 AM Lewis Hamilton has stopped on track in France. What's happened to the boy wonder?

R.Youden

Jun 29, 2007, 06:36 AM

It turns out that his engine had an automatic cut-off as it was running too cool so they just turned the heat up. Thats a bit boring isn't it! Why couldn't he have a proper problem, well maybe he does, the pace of the Ferrari.

xUKHCx

Jun 30, 2007, 09:00 AM

I have a question about the 2 race per engine rule

If Alonso has to change his engine (1) he will automatically drop 10 places as he has to put a new engine (2) in

As this race will be the first for engine 2 will it have to alst for another race or can they put a new engine (3) in for the next race as he has already be penalized for engine (1) failing.

If that makes any sense?

Edit: Gearbox failure for alonso but the question still remains

R.Youden

Jun 30, 2007, 09:14 AM

If Alonso changes his engine prior to this race then he will loose 10 places in this race only.

If he has to change engine prior to the start of the next race then the 10 place penalty applies to that race only after which they can change the engine.

I remember last year BMW Sauber took the enigne out of their car after one race and dropped it on the floor, damaging internal components so they had to replace the engine and suffered a 10 place penalty at the next race.

One problem with this rule is: If you are racing one weekend prior to a circuit which demands a lot from an engine and you are not running in a strong position for the current race do you deliberately blow your engine so you get a new one for the next race which can be tailored to a different circuit?

R.Youden

Jun 30, 2007, 01:56 PM

One HUGE shunt in the GP2 race. He is a very lucky lad!

YouTube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPFBE2aldew)

and Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz9SspQKlfY)

No safety measures can protect against that type of accident

Lord Blackadder

Jun 30, 2007, 05:55 PM

Wow, that was quite an accident!...it could have ended very differently, I'm sure. He's lucky the car skidded along the top of the wall upright.

xUKHCx

Jun 30, 2007, 06:03 PM

Luckly that the guy is alright and also very lucky that no safety marshals were caught up in this accident, like that poor guy in Australia(?) a few years back.

R.Youden

Jun 30, 2007, 06:17 PM

And Italy in 2000?

There was an accident in 1995 which killed a guy in Formula 3000 in France, very similar accident.

We are having a few too many "wow, he was lucky" accidents at the moment.

link92

Jun 30, 2007, 06:18 PM

Luckly that the guy is alright and also very lucky that no safety marshals were caught up in this accident, like that poor guy in Australia(?) a few years back.

Yeah, Australia 2001.

Counterfit

Jun 30, 2007, 07:08 PM

Anyone catch the wheel guy getting knocked as one of the cars pitted under the SC? Also, the flyer took out the top of a fire extinguisher! :eek:

Lord Blackadder

Jul 1, 2007, 09:01 AM

Also, the flyer took out the top of a fire extinguisher! :eek:

I was wondering what the hell that was!

bartelby

Jul 1, 2007, 09:04 AM

Safety Car?

iGav

Jul 1, 2007, 11:04 AM

God I hate Magny-Cours.

Lord Blackadder

Jul 1, 2007, 08:02 PM

Apparently a boring race...couldn't have been won by a more boring guy, at least personality-wise. :D

I'd prefer not to see anyone run away with the championship, so hopefully Ferrari can keep the pressure on. Kubica had another workmanlike race too...

Counterfit

Jul 1, 2007, 09:17 PM

Apparently a boring race...couldn't have been won by a more boring guy, at least personality-wise. :D

I quite liked seeing Nick fend off Alonslow for quite a few laps. Plus fred's repeated attempts at going around the outside at Adelaide, plus Fizzy staying well in front in those instances. Then Wurz and Heikki both cutting one chicane, while Speed snuck up from behind. (Too bad his car died right then).

takao

Jul 2, 2007, 05:18 AM

i found it quite good, with lots of overtaking... also what about albers taking his gas pump halfway with him ?

R.Youden

Jul 2, 2007, 05:59 AM

Another track leaves the Formula One circus. I think it is only right that circuits such as Magny-Cours are removed from the calendar, what do they offer to the sport? France already has one race (well Monaco is France as far as I am concerned!) and they never got huge crowds there anyway, also it was in the middle of no-where.

It did have some good features, the Nurburgring chicane was great, although it could have got a bit messy if Heidfeld hadn't got out the way! Hopefully the new circuits will bring something to Formula One rather than just a new area to explore for Bernie!

It would be great to still have a race in France however, what about racing on the old Le Mans circuit, but more likely the short circuit they use for the Super Bikes.

iGav

Jul 2, 2007, 03:00 PM

Hopefully the new circuits will bring something to Formula One rather than just a new area to explore for Bernie!

Another street circuit is on the cards apparently... this time in Paris. :rolleyes:

F1 should return to Le Castellet.

Lord Blackadder

Jul 2, 2007, 05:07 PM

Forget France, I vote for Laguna Seca. :)

DerChef

Jul 3, 2007, 07:15 AM

Er um Paul Richard is a logical choice BUT

1. Its rather close to Monaco afterall

2. It has been turned into this specialised test facility that mimicks other circuits

So you could have *Richard does Monaco, Richard does Montreal probably even have a facility for Richard does Magny Cours :o

* Reading that back it sounds like a Gay version of Debbie does Dallas :D

iGav

Jul 3, 2007, 09:01 AM

1. Its rather close to Monaco afterall

Not really a problem in itself.

2. It has been turned into this specialised test facility that mimicks other circuits

But the original layout at Circuit Paul Ricard actually remains ;) along with the mighty Mistral, :D the changes are the smaller link sections allowing a variety of circuits to be laid out.

It does however lack the infrastructure to support spectators, but considering the circuit itself is arguably the most advanced and safest racing track in the world, it'd probably be safe to assume that the circuit would require very little, if any expenditure to bring it up to FIA racing standards, and as such would only require the erection of temporary grandstands to satisfy the criteria to hold a round of the Formula 1 World Championship. :D

iGav

Jul 3, 2007, 02:01 PM

McLaren employee suspected of espionage (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60464)

"The team has learnt that this individual had personally received a package of technical information from a Ferrari employee at the end of April".

Word on the street is that it's Mike Coughlan. :eek:

Lord Blackadder

Jul 3, 2007, 02:30 PM

Wow, this sounds pretty huge, especially in light of the current standings...I saw that Stepney's lawyer claimed that his innocence would quickly be proved, but I guess we may have to wait for it to come out in court.

iGav

Jul 3, 2007, 02:51 PM

Wow, this sounds pretty huge

You could say that. :eek:

Ferrari confirm action against McLaren man. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60465)

"Ferrari announces it has recently presented a case against Nigel Stepney and an engineer from the Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes team with the Modena Tribunal, concerning the theft of technical information.

"Furthermore, legal action has been instigated in England and a search warrant has been issued concerning the engineer. This produced a positive outcome.

"Ferrari reserves the right to consider all implications, be they criminal, civil or of any other nature, according to the applicable laws."

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Begs the question, I wonder how much McLaren actually might have known or if they can be implicated in this as well?

That said... Toyota got away with it didn't they. :rolleyes:

R.Youden

Jul 3, 2007, 03:06 PM

Ha. Ferrari are one to talk about obtaining information illegally. Better not say too much...

Lord Blackadder

Jul 3, 2007, 04:13 PM

I wonder what they found during the search...I guess it was digital data, but maybe it was a front wing assembly hidden under the bed...:rolleyes: :D

This is going to make some waves, and yes, in light of this Toyota seem to have gotten away with murder, plain and simple.

DerChef

Jul 3, 2007, 04:27 PM

"Security is not a dirty word blackadder"

Some nerdy mates of mine spent a day driving around a city (they call it a War Drive :rolleyes: ) with a wireless internet connection and picked up over 300 unsecured wireless network connections. Banks, Oil Companies and Government offices.

Coughlan probably simply sat with his lap top outside the Ferrari motorhome and downloaded it :p

iGav

Jul 4, 2007, 06:10 AM

Ha. Ferrari are one to talk about obtaining information illegally. Better not say too much...

Do tell, we're all friends here. :D Although I don't recall anything being mentioned about Ferrari receiving or indeed acquiring actual technical data through acts of espionage, in the recent history at least.

I wonder what they found during the search...I guess it was digital data, but maybe it was a front wing assembly hidden under the bed...

There's talk of the entire blueprints for the F2007. Though that said, at this stage we should be weary of the sensationalism of some of the reports that are currently doing the rounds.

But surely we should assume that whatever he was in possession of, was significant and serious enough for Ferrari to undertake legal proceedings in the UK and then obtain a search warrant to allow a Police search of his home? :eek:

This is going to make some waves, and yes, in light of this Toyota seem to have gotten away with murder, plain and simple.

I don't understand why Toyota were not kicked out of the sport, and every other FIA sanctioned series either. It's not like they don't have form.

Coughlan probably simply sat with his lap top outside the Ferrari motorhome and downloaded it.

"The team has learnt that this individual had personally received a package of technical information from a Ferrari employee at the end of April."

;) :p

Autosport have posted an interesting article musing these events... I just don't know where to start. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Analysis: the remarkable Stepneygate saga (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60467)

"I am on a planned holiday with Ash and our baby. Why would anyone say I am not contactable? I booked the flights through the Ferrari travel office. They know where I am."

In a further twist, a Ferrari spokesman told autosport.com at Magny-Cours last weekend that this last statement was not true, and indeed, Stepney was not even on an official leave.

Meanwhile, the rumours continued to fly around, and bits of information come out in dribs and drabs. I've been told that the police officers who visited Casa Nigel didn't just recover that canister, but other items of interest, reportedly including a couple of steering wheels that should not have been there.

Sources have also suggested that Stepney was allegedly seen behaving suspiciously around the cars in the factory at a time when he thought he was alone, and/or that there is incriminating CCTV footage.

Ferrari interestingly made a point of ending their statement on Tuesday by saying the team "reserve the right to consider all implications, be they criminal, civil or of any other nature, according to the applicable laws." (emphasis added)

The last time Ferrari made a similar threat was in 2003, after*the*FIA found the tread width of Michelin tyres to be outside the legal width - following a protest by Ferrari. Back then, Ferrari also "reserved the right" to challenge race results after the season was over, should they deem it necessary.

Ferrari never pursued legal action in 2003 - the team, after all, won both titles that season - but Maranello's suggestion that some teams may not have won fairly was made very clear.

Incredible. Just incredible.

xUKHCx

Jul 4, 2007, 06:12 AM

What did i miss in regards to Toyota?

iGav

Jul 4, 2007, 06:22 AM

What did i miss in regards to Toyota?

2004 also saw Toyota being accused of industrial espionage in the case of stolen data files from Ferrari. This following a season where many Formula 1 fans commented on similarities of the Toyota TF104 to the Ferrari F2003-GA.

The district attorney of Cologne, where Toyota F1 is based, led the investigation saying "It’s an immense amount of material. We’d need over 10 thousand pages to print everything." Toyota refused to send the data back to Italy because they did not want Ferrari to take advantage of their own data, which had been mixed in with Ferrari's.

Not to mention their escapades in other racing series... including the WRC (which they were kicked out of).

R.Youden

Jul 4, 2007, 06:59 AM

I can't imagine that t would be the whole blueprints to the F2007. No one person will have access to all that data for security reasons :rolleyes: .

If anyone is interested in the 'supposed' Ferrari 'irregularities' then PM me, I am not happy posting such information on a public forum.

iGav

Jul 4, 2007, 09:35 AM

I can't imagine that t would be the whole blueprints to the F2007. No one person will have access to all that data for security reasons :rolleyes: .

Sounds sus-sensationalist to me too... it's from Gazzetta after all. :p

If anyone is interested in the 'supposed' Ferrari 'irregularities' then PM me, I am not happy posting such information on a public forum.

Just add allegedly in front of anything potentially incriminating Have I Got News For You style. ;) :p

Anyway...

McLaren reassure Ferrari about leaked data. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60479)

Following our statement of 3rd July 2007, McLaren has completed a thorough investigation and can confirm that no Ferrari intellectual property has been passed to any other members of the team or incorporated into its cars

Call me cynical, but a thorough investigation, completed in 24 hours or so, only days before a home GP. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

FIA begins probe on Ferrari-McLaren affair. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60481)

About time too.

SpookTheHamster

Jul 5, 2007, 04:47 PM

If Mclaren's supposed dominance at this point in the season is due to Ferrari secrets, why aren't Ferrari doing just as well?

I'm not a Mclaren fan, but I believe them when they say it didn't pass to anybody else. You'd have to be stupid to get involved, especially when the benefit is potentially so small.

It reminds me of when an employee of a large drinks corporation tried to sell the secret ingredients of their product to their main competition. Instead of getting involved, the competition notified the company and the employee was punished.

R.Youden

Jul 5, 2007, 05:07 PM

The 'secrets' where only given to McLaren in late April, which is far too late to make a huge difference.

Also McLaren did not get the information, one of its employees did. He could have used that information without anyone else knowing, if he even used it at all.

I am thinking that maybe this information was not as technical as we think. It could have more to do with the personnel and way Ferrari work, rather than any technical information.

Also I think this may all work its way back to Honda, don't ask me why, I just have a hunch...

R.Youden

Jul 6, 2007, 01:33 PM

Also I think this may all work its way back to Honda, don't ask me why, I just have a hunch...

:rolleyes: (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60550) <-click me!

BoyBach

Jul 6, 2007, 01:56 PM

I'll be up at six tomorrow morning for the drive up to Silverstone.

Woot!

:D

R.Youden

Jul 6, 2007, 02:20 PM

I have been to Silverstone for the last two years and I must admit I am not too disappointed not going this year. To me it is just a big anti-climax. You can hardly tell what is going on and you always get sat next to the little **** with the air horn. Oh and this year you will have Lewis mania. Yawn.

If I haven't put you off yet, where will you be? I have been in Becketts which was good and then with discounted tickets from Honda they sat everyone on Hanger Straight which was pants compared to Becketts.

BoyBach

Jul 6, 2007, 02:55 PM

This will be my second time at Silverstone. I'm not sure where we'll be watching it from yet, but I've packed my wellies and raincoat just in case. (Last year it was shorts and sun lotion! :( )

As for the Lewis Hamilton hype, we'll be supporting Harry Ramsden and Neil & Linda Hamilton. (Don't ask.)

R.Youden

Jul 6, 2007, 03:47 PM

If you only have a standard entry ticket then try and get in early, get a seat at the entry to Maggotts (shown below). That is an amazing place to watch the cars from as you are almost on-top of them and you get a real feel for the true speed.

http://www.ngroadracing.org/images/circuits/silverstone.jpg

sananda

Jul 7, 2007, 09:17 AM

why does alonso not wear the special press conference clean stiff jacket?

R.Youden

Jul 7, 2007, 12:29 PM

why does alonso not wear the special press conference clean stiff jacket?

I thought they all wore their race overalls? I must admit I don't bother listening to the press-conferences anymore, all crazy PR drivel.

sananda

Jul 7, 2007, 04:21 PM

I thought they all wore their race overalls? I must admit I don't bother listening to the press-conferences anymore, all crazy PR drivel.

all teams do wear their overalls execept mclaren. their drivers are supposed to put on another jacket on top which looks identical but is pristine. the sleeves are stiff so that sponsor logos point straight at the camera. i noticed that alonso today and at the last race wasn't wearing his. they have obligations to their sponsors to slip on the appropriate watch and cap after the race. i was wondering whether alonso's lack of co-operation was symptomatic of his present unhappiness with the team.

Lord Blackadder

Jul 8, 2007, 11:05 AM

Kimi takes the race...as much as I like Hamilton, it was a bit amusing to see the massive British media circus come to a screeching halt. Oops, looks like Kimi forgot to read the script!! :D

Ferrari is back in the fight, but I suspect the irritatingly named "Stepneygate" will overshadow the racing unless it's a close fight all the way.

BoyBach

Jul 8, 2007, 04:41 PM

I got back from Silverstone about three hours ago and here are some of my thoughts/observations about the weekend:

1. It was bloody hot! I was expecting rain and I so took wellies and a raincoat and not sun lotion and shorts. (I am currently sporting a rather fetching bright red sun-burnt nose. :( )

2. The F1 Village was crap compared to last year.

3. It was very busy. I didn't realise how many people were watching the qualifying until it finished and looked behind me. The stands and trackside were packed.

4. Qualifying was extremely exciting - even for somebody who doesn't support Lewis Hamilton.

5. Apparently during the Porsche race this morning a transmission fell out of a car. I didn't see it as I was asleep!

6. Apparently Kimi Raikkenon won the race. Again, I didn't see this as I fell asleep after the first 10 laps or so. ( :o :( )

7. I don't think I will ever tire of watching the Red Arrows perform.

H. Bulmers Cider is nice! :D

sananda

Jul 8, 2007, 04:56 PM

really? you fell asleep during the race? with all that noise? i nearly fell asleep at home.

BoyBach

Jul 8, 2007, 05:04 PM

really? you fell asleep during the race? with all that noise? i nearly fell asleep at home.

Terrible isn't it?

We slept in the queue and were awake at 4.45 to get in (gates opened at 5am) so we could get a 'good spot.' We had a great location - right at the front of Vale in front a giant display - but after a breakfast baguette and cup of tea I went out like a light!

:o :(

sananda

Jul 8, 2007, 06:12 PM

Terrible isn't it?

We slept in the queue and were awake at 4.45 to get in (gates opened at 5am) so we could get a 'good spot.' We had a great location - right at the front of Vale in front a giant display - but after a breakfast baguette and cup of tea I went out like a light!

:o :(

you'll have to watch the highlights on itv !!

JFreak

Jul 9, 2007, 06:11 AM

after a breakfast baguette and cup of tea I went out like a light!

Are you sure it was tea you were drinking? :)

iGav

Jul 12, 2007, 11:28 AM

Indianapolis won't host US GP in 2008 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60736)

Quite liked the track myself. :(

Though shame they didn't incorporate more of the banking and oval into the F1 circuit.

So... no U.S. GP for next season then. :(

bartelby

Jul 12, 2007, 11:30 AM

BoyBach

Jul 12, 2007, 12:45 PM

So where it going next year?

When's the Spanish street race going to be starting?

There has been talk about a night street race in Southeast Asia. Philippines or Malaysia, can't remember exactly where.

Bernie Ecclestone is also keen on an Indian Grand Prix, but next year may be too soon.

whooleytoo

Jul 12, 2007, 12:52 PM

There has been talk about a night street race in Southeast Asia. Philippines or Malaysia, can't remember exactly where.

Bernie Ecclestone is also keen on an Indian Grand Prix, but next year may be too soon.

Are you serious? Either the race season is going to get a lot longer, or the European calendar is going to be decimated.

bartelby

Jul 12, 2007, 12:53 PM

There has been talk about a night street race in Southeast Asia. Philippines or Malaysia, can't remember exactly where.

Bernie Ecclestone is also keen on an Indian Grand Prix, but next year may be too soon.

A night street race?
:eek:

I can't see the point in that. It's not like the cars will have lights on the streets will be so well lit it'll be brighter than a British summer's day

BoyBach

Jul 12, 2007, 01:29 PM

Are you serious? Either the race season is going to get a lot longer, or the European calendar is going to be decimated.

A night street race?
:eek:

I can't see the point in that. It's not like the cars will have lights on the streets will be so well lit it'll be brighter than a British summer's day

The Indian Olympic Association says it has reached an agreement with Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone to stage a Grand Prix in New Delhi from 2009.

IOA president Suresh Kalmadi said the agreement was preliminary and conditional on having a venue approved.

The city does not currently have a racing track.

India agree deal on Grand Prix - BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6751929.stm)

Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone has floated the idea of holding one of the Asian Grands Prix at night.

He said an Asian night race would attract a bigger television audience as it would be shown in Europe during the day rather than in the early hours.

"It would be ideal for Asia, since it would be the right time difference to be broadcast in Europe," said F1's commercial rights holder.

"It would also be very spectacular, it all depends of course on the circuit."

F1 boss wants to hold night race- BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6522367.stm)

The second link also mentions Ecclestone's desire to extend the calendar to twenty races.

iGav

Jul 12, 2007, 02:33 PM

FIA summons McLaren in spy case (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60729).

EXTRAORDINARY MEETING OF THE WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL
12.07.2007

Representatives of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes have been requested to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Thursday, July 26, 2007.

The team representatives have been called to answer a charge that between March and July 2007, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes had unauthorised possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, including information that could be used to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari Formula One car.