2007 Formula One Thread

[R.Youden]

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[R.Youden]

Can a mod please delete the first post I am trying to edit it but I can't, thanks.

As I was saying; the teams are starting to unveil their cars, the main dates are as follows:

Renault Jan 24
Ferrari Jan 14
McLaren Jan 15
Honda Jan 25
BMW Jan 16
Toyota Jan 12
Williams Feb 2

How will the sport get on without Schumacher? Will Hamilton be able to cope with Alonso? Will Kimi finally get a car capable of finishing every race? Will Massa have a chance of the title? Can Button build on the second half of last year?

My predictions for the championship:

1. Raikkonen
2. Alonso
3. Button
4. Massa
5. Barrichello
6. Hamilton

I really don't see Renault being at the races this year. I am sure Kovalainen will prove to be a good long term replacement for Alonso, but not next year. I think Honda will push on (I am bound to say that arn't I!) and Barrichello will be more able to put pressure on Button which will only benefit the team and hopefully they will grab the odd win. Hamilton will do OK but I fear that the McLaren will do its usual firework displays! I think that Ferrari will just have the edge over everyone else and they will have a very reliable car that is just that little bit quicker.

What does everyone else think

[Jasonbot]

As much as Raikonen is my favourite driver I really feel that he's a traitor moving to ferrai and all. I'll always stick with my team, Mclaren, and that means I will seem ike one of the many ALonso fanboys which I'm not.

[R.Youden]

As much as Raikonen is my favourite driver I really feel that he's a traitor moving to ferrai and all. I'll always stick with my team, Mclaren, and that means I will seem ike one of the many ALonso fanboys which I'm not.

I think that Raikkonen is going to Ferrari to win. The problem is Ferrari win no matter what the cost (ie cheating) and McLaren think they have a divine right to win! I think that Renault did a great job with a great atitude and made a great car for Alonso, I just don't know if he will fit in there very well. Not many people move to McLaren and do well, thats why I think Hamilton will do well in the long run.

[Jasonbot]

I think that Raikkonen is going to Ferrari to win. The problem is Ferrari win no matter what the cost (ie cheating) and McLaren think they have a divine right to win! I think that Renault did a great job with a great atitude and made a great car for Alonso, I just don't know if he will fit in there very well. Not many people move to McLaren and do well, thats why I think Hamilton will do well in the long run.

I hear you man. The only thing I wanna know about the thing about Ferrari cheating, honestly in the world of motorsport I don't see how that can be tolerated. I'm not sure but is it due to Mclaren's unrelibale car last year that made Kimi sort of flouder with the championship?

[R.Youden]

I can't really so too much on a public forum but it you want me to PM you just let me know...

[MacDonaldsd]

I think alonso will struggle if the mclaren is anything like it has been over the last couple of seasons.

I think Raikkonen will win the championship this year.

I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think Button is over-rated.

[SpookTheHamster]

I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think Button is over-rated.

Haha, just a little. How long did it take him to get a win?! And the ITV commentators still think the sun shines out of his arse.

[dllavaneras]

What's wrong with Ferrari? I haven't been keeping up with F1, but I'm still a fan. What's this about cheating? :confused:

[Warbrain]

I think the championship is a bit up for grabs amongst the teams that always contend. It's not a two-horse race like last year was.

[adk]

As much as Raikonen is my favourite driver I really feel that he's a traitor moving to ferrai and all. I'll always stick with my team, Mclaren, and that means I will seem ike one of the many ALonso fanboys which I'm not.

If you ran marathons well but your nike shoes fell apart somewhere around mile 20 every race, would you consider yourself to be a traitor for running in adidas shoes the next year?

[Jasonbot]

If you ran marathons well but your nike shoes fell apart somewhere around mile 20 every race, would you consider yourself to be a traitor for running in adidas shoes the next year?

Well if you were running for Team Nike+ for many years and they had a bad spate for a year or two I don't think you would just suddenly chenge. It's all about sticking with your team to the bitter ends!

[philbeeney]

My tip for the coming season would be Robert Kubica in the BMW Sauber.

I think he had an incredible start to his career in 2006 and will continue to impress in 2007. Definitely top six contender.

[R.Youden]

Toyota are the first team to unveil their 2007 challenger:

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/team-toyota/diapo_121.jpg

They say, again, that 2007 will be the year they win their first race. One thing I find very interesting is that their side pod looks very similar to that of Honda, their arch rival, in terms of the chimney and the bat wing flick-up

[R.Youden]

Why all the Jenson bashing?

Why do people say he is over-rated? Who over-rates him? The media, and you believe what they say?

I have no doubt that Jenson has the capability to win the world drivers championship. All he needs is a car to match. No-one in modern Formula One can win the championship without a fast car, it is impossible. If, and when, Honda give him that car, he will win. He is committed, fast, reliable and has the backing of teh whole team. His only weakness is that maybe he struggles to keep a faster car behind him but that is not a huge issue.

I agree he isnt a Kimi or Alonso, but he is as good as anyone else out there.

[desenso]

Villeneuve is gone... Schumacher is gone... Irvine was gone long ago. The sport has no personalities left. All hail Alonso, the most boring champion of all time!

I think I'll be hitting the snooze button on Formula Snore this year.

[R.Youden]

Villeneuve is gone... Schumacher is gone... Irvine was gone long ago. The sport has no personalities left. All hail Alonso, the most boring champion of all time!

I think I'll be hitting the snooze button on Formula Snore this year.

Imagine what it will be like when Kimi is champion! Everyone will think Alonso is Mr. Charisma!

[MacDonaldsd]

Button is over rated, yes its the medias fault.

Kimi and Alonso are a step above him.

I think id rather massa aswell.

[R.Youden]

See them here first...

The new Renault during a shake down at Silverstone prior to the launch in Spain next week:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7779/picture2ow8.jpg

They are running the wing mirrors on the side pods similar to Ferrari last year:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8209/picture1pf0.jpg

Sorry about the poor quality but at least you wont have seen them anywhere else.

[stuh84]

I'm tipping Alonso because I think he has a better mindset than Raikkonnen. Remember Nurburgring 2005 (I think it was Nurburgring anyway)? He drove round like a maniac, flat-spotted his tyre, and the vibrations broke his wheel off and he got no points. Thumbs up for determination, thumbs down for intelligence.

He has the if I don't come in first place I wont race mentality, and as we've seen with Alonso who's won TWO titles based upon consistency as well as wins, not a win or nothing approach.

No denying Raikkonnen is fast, and I would love to see him win because he does deserve a title, but I wouldn't be that surprised if he didn't either.

I am tipping Alonso for the treble.

[R.Youden]

I'm tipping Alonso because I think he has a better mindset than Raikkonnen. Remember Nurburgring 2005 (I think it was Nurburgring anyway)? He drove round like a maniac, flat-spotted his tyre, and the vibrations broke his wheel off and he got no points. Thumbs up for determination, thumbs down for intelligence.

He has the if I don't come in first place I wont race mentality, and as we've seen with Alonso who's won TWO titles based upon consistency as well as wins, not a win or nothing approach.

No denying Raikkonnen is fast, and I would love to see him win because he does deserve a title, but I wouldn't be that surprised if he didn't either.

I am tipping Alonso for the treble.

I agree with what you are saying, BUT in 2005 Kimi had 5 mechanical failures whilst leading races (inc. Nurburgring, in which he wanted to stop but the team told him to carry on). If he had finished reach of the races in the top three he would have been champion. I think with Ferrari next year he will have the most reliable car whilst McLaren will still be chasing its tail.

Should be great racing, I hope!

[iGav]

The problem is Ferrari win no matter what the cost (ie cheating)

I think they pale in comparison to the stunts that Renault, Honda and Toyota have gotten away with over the last few seasons personally. ;)

Renault employing illegal team orders for the past 2 seasons (caught on pit-to-car radio, or disgustingly blatant like at last years U.S. or Chinese GP's) also some observers have suggested that they've been employing at the very least a borderline launch control system when these have been banned for several years, which accounts for the fact that they can often start from several rows back, but end up 1st or 2nd come the first corner. :eek: :rolleyes: :p

Honda... well we all know that they should've been kicked out of the sport after the "we did a full drain, it's completely empty, honest guv..." debacle of 2005, a system that they were also using in 2004 too.

And Toyota... well Toyota. :rolleyes: They're real cheating bastards. Using the actual technical data of another team, in their windtunnel to design and develop their car, and then they refuse to return and delete the data. :rolleyes: Toyota should've been handed an infinite ban from competing in ANY form of FIA sanctioned motorsport.

Anyway, the F2007 launched today. :D

That's one seriously tight rump. :eek:

Kimi... your title awaits you. ;) :D

[R.Youden]

The new Ferrair does look a very good car, but I think that it what we expected.

The issues that you mentioned regarding cheating. It is well known that ever Formula One Team "cheats" but much of that is regarded as being part of the game. What annoyed a lot of people who worked inside the sport and one of the things that made me leave formula one was that Ferrari cheated whilst racing to take a 'slow' car and make it 'fast'. I dont mean any of that team order rubish. Teams should be allowed to do what they want, that is why we have a constructors championship. As for the Renault start system, it is just a very well designed car with a very well designed system, trust me ;)

[iGav]

What annoyed a lot of people who worked inside the sport and one of the things that made me leave formula one was that Ferrari cheated whilst racing to take a 'slow' car and make it 'fast'. I dont mean any of that team order rubish.

But I felt the way that it was originally implied, was that Ferrari were the only ones either cheating or willing to cheat to win. I agree that Ferrari are no angels, and are certainly more than capable of employing... shall we say 'dubious' behaviour and tactics for example.

But I think it's unfair to single them out alone, when AT LEAST the 4 big main teams are equally (if not more so) guilty of cheating. The worst culprits being Honda and Toyota for example. Honda knowingly ran there car underweight giving them a distinct advantage for over a season, Toyota design a car, based on ACTUAL technical data from another cars design.

As for the Renault start system, it is just a very well designed car with a very well designed system, trust me ;)

I've read all sorts... everything from a mechanical based system involving the clutch, to the rear weight bias of the R25 and R26 coupled with good low down torque from the Renault engine. One would have thought though, had the solution to their standing start performance being as obvious as that, that other teams would've employed similar solutions on their own cars, considering the current importance of on track position and the difficulty in overtaking on track. That the other teams couldn't... well, is odd.

They do have some form in including illegal launch control though. ;) :p

[R.Youden]

The point about the lauch control is a difficult one. What is lauch control? We used to have a system where the driver activated the lauch control system by pressing a button on the wheel. This has been banned and from what I understand, not what Renault do, or did.

They have a very good car design which is based around good weight distribution and good engine design. From what I have worked out Renault initiate a "launch control" technique by pushing the car back on the grid prior to teh formation lap starting. This will then be combined with a launch sequence mapping for the gear box control so that the gearbox and engine work in a set way only for the first shift through the box. This is just a setting on the control system and I am almost 100% sure they dont have an automated shift sequence. Infact I was involved in some analysis a few years ago showing that they didnt and all gear shifts co-inside with driver shift commands.

[DarkNetworks]

Ferrari should start as favorites this season and they will. My predictions, Kimi, Massa and JB. Massa would deffinately have an upper hand over Kimi as he probably knowns the car better and let's just not forget that a couple of races in 06' he was quicker than Schumi .I think McLaren and Renault would need some time with the switch to Bridgestone. I don't see any reason why Ferrari wouldn't start as favorites.

[R.Youden]

McLaren launched their new car today. Looks good! Striking Vodaphone sponsorship.

I like the very agressive angles on the side-pods.

This is a big year for McLaren, they can't afford to fail!

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/team-mclaren/diapo_103.jpg

[SpookTheHamster]

They seem to be really set on that narrow nose. Hopefully it'll work out for them this year.

[iGav]

By far and away the most subtle evolution of last years cars we yet seen this launch season. Strikingly similar to last years MP4/21.

I still think McLaren will miss Newey, Tombazis and Prodromou when it comes to having to develop this car over the course of the season, and that will have a massive affect on their performance during the 2nd half of the season.

[R.Youden]

I agree that McLaren could turn into the next Williams. They start off great but dont develop through the year. Lets hope not.

I hope they have made the car well enough so other teams can't dismantle it! ;)

[R.Youden]

The cars are comming thick and fast now.

Today saw the launch of the new BMW:

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/team-bmw/diapo_194.jpg

Nice looking car, nothing staggering though. I can see them being 5th this year, just behind the Honda Renault battle but just ahead of Toyota. Saying that they will do well at the fast circuits (sorry circuit) Monza where the big BMW will make up for the lack of aero. BMW are going down the route of CAD for aerodynamics rather than building a second wind tunnel like most teams are.

Looking forward to seeing Vettel drive. This kid appears to have slipped into F1 without much fuss and done very well when given the chance. I think they will have a good year if not dramatic. 5th place I predict for BMW.

[MacDonaldsd]

All the new cars look very simliar to last years models.

[R.Youden]

You are right there! The only time you see big changes is when you put the cars side-by-side or look at cars from 3-4 years agom then you can tell the difference.

The big area that I think are seeing changes this year is around the rear end. Teams are making the gearbox and engine more compact so that area above the diffuser is alot smiller, alowing air to flow better over the rear wing and making the more efficient.

[Counterfit]

Man, that Ferrari looks weird without the white wings to balance out the red.

I've read all sorts... everything from a mechanical based system involving the clutch, to the rear weight bias of the R25 and R26 coupled with good low down torque from the Renault engine. One would have thought though, had the solution to their standing start performance being as obvious as that, that other teams would've employed similar solutions on their own cars, considering the current importance of on track position and the difficulty in overtaking on track. That the other teams couldn't... well, is odd.

I recall Ross Brawn saying a few years ago: "We know how they're doing it, and we don't want to make those compromises".
Toyota might want to though ;)



Also, where the **** have you been? I'm surprised you haven't posted in the other F1 thread (unless I'm thinking of a different forum...:confused: )

[R.Youden]

Just found these pics on the internet showing the McLaren MP4/21 (last years car) top and MP4/22 (this years car) bottom:

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/team-mclaren/diapo_158.jpg
http://www.f1-fansite.com/Wallpaper/2006/Launch-Testing/McLaren-MP4-21-2-0800.jpg

Not too much difference is there! Maybe a change to the profile of teh engine cover but thats about it at a glance!

When you look at it a bit closer I suppose you could mention the slits in the rear wing end plates and the elongated chimneys on the side pods...

[Prom1]

I dont know or follow F1 as much as I used to 2yrs ago and earlier, and surely not as much as I did with Ayrton & Prost as arch rivals!

This sport needs a solid rivalry - yet not dangerous to themselves or anyone else. It needs great drivers that are willing to put up their skills against one another even if for a while when 1 is a lap down or being lap to give the other a bit of a fit to express when passing. Ah the days of Prost & Ayrton loosing it. Its just like Tennis, we have great stars & players today, but nothing as a rivalry or even close with lovable characters off the court. Remember Agassi & Sampras? Those two loved to get under each others skin - although they greatly respected one another. Sampras seemed to bring out the best of Agassi, and Agassi gave Sampras a challenge (he had his full faculties about when in a match with him). This no longer exists with Tennis or in Formula one. No one dares to bring out the best in one another or challenge outright in public to another's skills.

My vote .... Alonso > He's always tried in vain > even helped Schumacher win a championship (giving up races - team orders) many times back a few years ago. Its just time he get is resolve before retirement. Sure he's not the best around - that I know - but he's a soldier sticking it out till the end.

[R.Youden]

I dont know or follow F1 as much as I used to 2yrs ago and earlier, and surely not as much as I did with Ayrton & Prost as arch rivals!

This sport needs a solid rivalry - yet not dangerous to themselves or anyone else. It needs great drivers that are willing to put up their skills against one another even if for a while when 1 is a lap down or being lap to give the other a bit of a fit to express when passing. Ah the days of Prost & Ayrton loosing it. Its just like Tennis, we have great stars & players today, but nothing as a rivalry or even close with lovable characters off the court. Remember Agassi & Sampras? Those two loved to get under each others skin - although they greatly respected one another. Sampras seemed to bring out the best of Agassi, and Agassi gave Sampras a challenge (he had his full faculties about when in a match with him). This no longer exists with Tennis or in Formula one. No one dares to bring out the best in one another or challenge outright in public to another's skills.

My vote .... Alonso > He's always tried in vain > even helped Schumacher win a championship (giving up races - team orders) many times back a few years ago. Its just time he get is resolve before retirement. Sure he's not the best around - that I know - but he's a soldier sticking it out till the end.

I agree about the rivalry, maybe with Kimi and Alonso but I think the driver you maybe referring to is Rubens Barichello! I dont think Alsono would EVER help Schui win a championship...

[iGav]

Why all the Jenson bashing?

I dunno... maybe his complete disloyalty and inability to honour the contracts he signs perhaps??? :p

I have no doubt that Jenson has the capability to win the world drivers championship.

He certainly has the 'capability'... much in the same way that Damon Hill had the 'capability' too I'm afraid.

All he needs is a car to match.

I think he'll need one a little better than that to be honest. :p

No-one in modern Formula One can win the championship without a fast car, it is impossible.

I'd agree with that, but I think it's also possible that there are a certain calibre of driver, that can make up the difference in what can maybe considered not the fastest car.

I've seen nothing to suggest that Button is of that calibre.

If, and when, Honda give him that car, he will win. He is committed, fast, reliable and has the backing of teh whole team.

Which begs the obvious question... why hasn't he won the championship already? or at least more than one race?

The point about the lauch control is a difficult one. What is lauch control?

I can't be arsed to look back at the technical regs, but I believe the idea was to ban any electro/mechanical interference, and that the launch of the car had to be manually carried out by the driver with no traction control assistance either (I can't remember when the T/C was allowed to kick in, though I think it was when the car hit a particular speed), and without the assistance of an 'aid' system like in previous seasons which required nothing more of the driver than release a button on the wheel whilst keeping their foot pinned to the floor.

From what I have worked out Renault initiate a "launch control" technique by pushing the car back on the grid prior to teh formation lap starting. This will then be combined with a launch sequence mapping for the gear box control so that the gearbox and engine work in a set way only for the first shift through the box. This is just a setting on the control system.

That vaguely sounds like one of the suggestions I've read, I also seem to remember reading that during the formation lap start by pushing the car back on the grid, allowed them to change settings relating to the clutch (maybe the diff too) that would act as a primitive (passive) launch control/traction control system as they were anticipating the grips levels for the start, as opposed to reacting to the grips levels like an active launch control system would do.

Either way... it had to be pushing the spirit of the rules at the very least.

They start off great but dont develop through the year. Lets hope not.

I've been getting used to these closer seasons too! ;)

Though you can't lose arguably one of the greatest designers ever and the current greatest aerodynamicist without it affecting the performance of the team.

That said, McLaren have been in a mess for some years... which can be traced back to the whole MP4-17, MP4-17D, MP4-18, MP4-19A and the MP4-19B all within the space of a couple of years of each other.

That... and committing enormous amounts of resources to the likes of Paragon and the 'Communications Centre'. You know what they say about priorities. :p though looks like they're at it again (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070117120215.shtml). :rolleyes:

You are right there! The only time you see big changes is when you put the cars side-by-side or look at cars from 3-4 years agom then you can tell the difference.

I think that this approach has become more popular since Ferrari achieved spectacular success at the the turn of the century with evolving their cars each year, working through the problems and deficiencies of a design as opposed to trying to solve problems by starting from the ground up with a fresh design every year.

Though Peter Sauber is suggesting (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070117111332.shtml) that the Ferrari is unique, and the most changed from the previous years car. Which is an interesting observation, though obviously Ferrari's decision to switch to a no-keel suspension format, and their reluctance to allow photo's of the rear of their car be published hints at potentially innovative solutions.

Man, that Ferrari looks weird without the white wings to balance out the red.

I'd have liked to have seen them revert back to their mid-80's to mid 90's red, with black wings. :D

I recall Ross Brawn saying a few years ago: "We know how they're doing it, and we don't want to make those compromises".

I remember that, (and I'll have to paraphrase this I'm afraid) but I also remember Pat Symonds responding to how Ross Brawn had suggested the way Renault were doing it and that Ross wasn't correct, and that he was surprised that the other teams hadn't figured it out yet. It was apparently very simple and obvious. Obviously. :p Though I could be wrong on that. I often am. :p

Also, where the **** have you been?

A mixtures of things really.

I only really checked back to see if someone had taken up the F1 batten and started a thread for the new F1 season, ably done by R.Youden I should add. Though to be honest I don't really have the time (or the inclination) to participate outside of the F1 threads on here anymore. Sadly.

Though I do really enjoy the banter in these F1 threads... ;) :D

[Lord Blackadder]

Good to see you back iGav!

I'm looking forward to this season, after so many changes we can't help but have surprises in store for us.

R.Youden and iGav, as an enthusiastic F1 novice, It's great to be able to listen to a couple of old hands. I've become quite the F1 and Premier League fan over the past couple years, and you have no idea how starved for material from either sport I can get, marooned here in the Midwest USA. I can't even have Top Gear right now, and I think I'm going into car-nut withdrawl. :eek:

I started watching F1 regularly amidst the Buttongate nonsense. He seems to be a very skilled driver, but the results are just not there. Bottom line, you must win races in F1 to be considered a top driver; He hasn't. Massa, on the other hand, has already won 2...I see no reason to say he isn't very good at what he does, other than the fact that he isn't winning. Is it circumstance, or is he a stiff?

[Jasonbot]

Wow, I like that MP4-22, think it supports the format? It could be the next iPod killer. But enough with the jokes. Are there any specs, wikipedia was very unhelpful.

[iGav]

Good to see you back iGav!

Cheers fella. :)

I'm looking forward to this season, after so many changes we can't help but have surprises in store for us.

It's got the makings of a really good one hasn't it... :D with a dash of the unknown too considering the number of changes we're seeing this year, whether it be because of driver retirements, swapping teams, single tyre manufacturer or customer cars (even though this isn't legal till 2008, though we know that won't stop Honda cheating).

I started watching F1 regularly amidst the Buttongate nonsense.

Which one??? teehee.

He seems to be a very skilled driver, but the results are just not there. Bottom line, you must win races in F1 to be considered a top driver; He hasn't. Massa, on the other hand, has already won 2...I see no reason to say he isn't very good at what he does, other than the fact that he isn't winning. Is it circumstance, or is he a stiff?

I don't think it's circumstance... he's always driven for a top team, 2 of which have won several World Championships between them over the 5 years either side of him having joined F1, so it's not like he's been driving donkeys or anything.

Don't get me wrong, he's a smooth, quick driver, but I think it's pertinent to question whether he has ever really exhibited or demonstrated that he has the other skills that are required to win the World Drivers Championship.

He could obviously fall lucky, and do a Damon Hill and win the championship in a car that is vastly superior to everything else on the grid, but even then, he'd never be considered the best driver, just as Damon never was.

[iGav]

Finally... Kimi in a Ferrari. :D

And he didn't break it either... :p :p :p

[Lord Blackadder]

And he didn't break it either... :p :p :p

...yet. :eek:

I guess this will give us a chance to see how much Kimi's driving style will effect what is usally the most reliable car out there.

No one will fill Michael's shoes though, so it's unfair to comapre him to Schu too much.

[R.Youden]

It is Kimi's title for the taking.

With the politics at Ferrari I doubt that they will let Massa win. In the same way they really didn't want Irvine to win the Championship in 1999 after Schui broke his leg.

It is a shame as I would love to see two Ferraris battle it out but I fear it is never going to happen.

[iGav]

With the politics at Ferrari I doubt that they will let Massa win. In the same way they really didn't want Irvine to win the Championship in 1999 after Schui broke his leg.

I honestly don't see how you can suggest that, considering Massa did win twice last season, and also finished ahead of Schumacher in Malaysia. Ferrari could have executed teamorders to get Massa to let Schumacher past in Sepang, but they didn't... and they could have done a similar thing in Turkey when the safety car screwed Schumacher's strategy. But they didn't.

It's completely overblown that Ferrari don't let their drivers race, as far as I understand it... they start the season equal, with the team only favouring one driver as soon as they're demonstratively quicker, or in a better position in the championship. Unlike McLaren say. ;)

Regarding Irvine, well surely his failure to win the championship was more because Irvine f**ked up in 3 races when he simply wasn't quick enough... Germany (Salo handed him the win), Malaysia (Schumacher drove as slowly as possible and still had to move over twice for Irvine) and Suzuka where again he was another world away from Schumacher in pace, when he had to win.

That said, Häkkinen did a really good job of almost throwing away the title that year too. :p

It is a shame as I would love to see two Ferraris battle it out but I fear it is never going to happen.

You mean... a bit like how Renault and McLaren have been operating recently. heheh.

[MacDonaldsd]

Ferrari where biased towards Schumcher but in fairness he has always clearly been there best driver, and over the course of a season more likely to win a championship for the team.

I think Kimi and Massa start pretty even in the team and it wont be till mid season if at all that you see team play within Ferrari.

[iGav]

Renault R27 Launch.

Oh my... if it goes like it looks. :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

[Lord Blackadder]

That's an odd color scheme...where did the orange and white come from?

[SpookTheHamster]

Yuck.

It would be a lot nicer if the entire car was white/orange, with none of the blue and yellow.

[mfacey]

That's an odd color scheme...where did the orange and white come from?

Orange and white are the colors of ING (a very large Holland-based bank) which is the new title sponsor. I think they should've skipped the yellow and gone with only orange, white and blue. It just looks odd now...

[scokim]

Just found these pics on the internet showing the McLaren MP4/21 (last years car) top and MP4/22 (this years car) bottom:


It's the other way around. Vodafone is the 2007 car.

[R.Youden]

They couldn't get rid of the Yellow or Blue, that is the corporate colours of Renault.

I suppose the 'team' orders issue with Ferrari has been more obvious that with McLaren and Renault as neither of the teams have had two drivers capable of fighting. Renault had Fissi who sulked all year and McLaren had Jaun Pablo (lets play tennis on a motorbike) Montoya so they where bound to get behind the No. 1. Or the other assumption was that each driver got different cars?

On the two occasions Massa beat Schui to a race win last year in one event Schui was being blocked by Alonso and at the other Schui was far behind and had a flat! In Turkey Massa was genuinely faster than Schui, but so was Rubens at some races.

[R.Youden]

It is finally here, the one I have been waiting for:
Honda RA107
http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2007honda1/image/XPB_0S8OZCW0HYI1KW0V55N9C-2

This is yet another big year for Honda. They need to continue the form of the 2nd half of the season and at least win 2-3 races and be in the top 6 at least at all the other races. From the look of the car (which isn't very easy to tell in black) they have taken a lot of sculpting around the back of the car and they have a very small gbx again. Also the front wing has curved supports, rather than the old style straight drops. Hopefully this will be a good car and the new wind-tunnel will start to take effect.

[dalvin200]

It is finally here, the one I have been waiting for:
Honda RA107
http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2007honda1/image/XPB_0S8OZCW0HYI1KW0V55N9C-2

This is yet another big year for Honda. They need to continue the form of the 2nd half of the season and at least win 2-3 races and be in the top 6 at least at all the other races. From the look of the car (which isn't very easy to tell in black) they have taken a lot of sculpting around the back of the car and they have a very small gbx again. Also the front wing has curved supports, rather than the old style straight drops. Hopefully this will be a good car and the new wind-tunnel will start to take effect.

that honda looks sweet.. nice n simple!!! shaded with raybans :p

[scokim]

Looks Mean too. In Black.

[iGav]

Looks Mean too. In Black.

It's not it's launch livery. Honda usually run in black in pre-season testing. Shame really.

[R.Youden]

The black looks great. They havn't used it for a couple of years. The 078 (last years interim car) was Honda white (cream) and red. This one is so much better. Reminds me of the Sauber around 1994 in the black finish.

http://www.vieux-volants.com/Galerie%20photos/Salon%20de%20l%20automobile%20geneve%202004/Sauber%20C13%201994_small1.JPG

[iGav]

RA107 stops in Button's first lap out (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news/2007/01/25/ra107_stops_in_button_s_first_lap_out/)

:p :p :p :p :p :p

[R.Youden]

RA107 stops in Button's first lap out (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news/2007/01/25/ra107_stops_in_button_s_first_lap_out/)

:p :p :p :p :p :p

Electrical problem, nothing to do with me, honest! :rolleyes:

[Lord Blackadder]

I love those uncluttered pre-launch liveries, and that Honda looks better even than McLaren's orange black from last season.

Too bad nobody can afford to run without all the sponsorship.

[R.Youden]

Super Aguri gave it a good go last year! :rolleyes:

[iGav]

I love those uncluttered pre-launch liveries, and that Honda looks better even than McLaren's orange black from last season.

McLaren's use of orange was a nod to the old McLaren CanAm cars.

Not sure how good an idea black is for an F1 car though, that judging by the derth of wet races and the excessive amount number of gloriously sunny ones we've had over the last few seasons, I'd imagine excessive heat being a bit of a liability, or at least it cannot help matters.

[smueboy]

just found this thread (a little late)....


I'm really looking forward to this season - so many changes (no schumacher, finally!) and so many unknowns, i think that it will be an exciting season.

I'm not familiar with McLaren's second driver Lewis Hamilton, nor Renault's second driver Heikki Kovalainen, so i'm interested to see how they perform. I'm still waiting for Webber to do something.

I've always liked Raikkonen, but mostly because he was driving for McLaren, So i may be looking for Alonso a lot more this year! I just hope that McLaren can maintain a better reliabiity this year. I do like the new colour scheme though.

It still seems like it may be a 3 team competition again, hopefully Honda, BMW etc. will give everyone a run for their money.

[R.Youden]

I hope we don't see too much of this this year:

Hamilton Smash (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56476)

I saw Hamilton at Silverstone last year and he was amazing. The GP2 was better than the F1 in terms of racing. Some drivers have said that the new tires will aid overtaking and I sure hope they do. As long as he can keep it on the black stuff.

[Markleshark]

Yeah, not a good start for the young lad.

However, I can not wait for Kimi in the Ferrari. That is just going to be the greatest thing ever. As long as they adapt the car to go with his much more aggressive driving style he'll wrap the championship up this year, no problem.

[R.Youden]

Yeah, not a good start for the young lad.

However, I can not wait for Kimi in the Ferrari. That is just going to be the greatest thing ever. As long as they adapt the car to go with his much more aggressive driving style he'll wrap the championship up this year, no problem.

I agree 100%. Kimi will be No. 1 in that team and he will get all the backing. Massa is not a Ferrari to win the championship. If he doesn't thrash it to death first but I don't think he is a bad as a lot of people make him out to be.

[Markleshark]

I agree 100%. Kimi will be No. 1 in that team and he will get all the backing. Massa is not a Ferrari to win the championship. If he doesn't thrash it to death first but I don't think he is a bad as a lot of people make him out to be.

I must admit, I was very surprised with how well Massa did last year, really was. I thought it would only be a stop gap however and this year we would get Kimi Plus One, but give him his due he obviously did enough (In the eyes of Ferrari, who at the end of the day, know better than all of us put together.) to keep his place.

I've been a hugeeeeeeeeee Kimi fan for a few years now (Used to watch him in Formula Renault) and I've been disappointed with McLaren, because that was a quick quick car, just not with the reliability the team and Kimi deserved. Now with Adrian Newey at Red Bull I have to say, I dont think its going to be a strong couple of years for McLaren and I'm very, very surprised Alonso went, TBH. But, we'll see.

[smueboy]

How will the switch to Bridgestone affect the teams that used to use Michelin?
It's a shame to limit the sport to a single tyre.

[R.Youden]

The problem with McLaren is that they are very arrogant. They have the 'it is our right to win' mentality and that gets up the noses of some people.

I think the single tyre manufacturer rule is the best thing that has happened to Formula One for a long time. The problem before what that some teams had the tyre designed around their car (cough Renualt cough) and others had to design their car around the tyre so they had to compromise. From what I can gather the new Bridgestone is very hard compared to last years tyre so it is not a huge bonus, only in terms of knowledge of personnel within each company.

[Markleshark]

I think the single tyre manufacturer rule is the best thing that has happened to Formula One for a long time. The problem before what that some teams had the tyre designed around their car (cough Renualt cough) and others had to design their car around the tyre so they had to compromise. From what I can gather the new Bridgestone is very hard compared to last years tyre so it is not a huge bonus, only in terms of knowledge of personnel within each company.

I would have to go as far as disagreeing. I can fully see and understand your point but I think it adds a bit more lee-way into the sport. Its the same as limiting the spending of the bigger teams, why? Why should we slow the sport down so the smaller teams can catch up? Yep... Really good way to take the sport forward. :rolleyes:

[R.Youden]

I would have to go as far as disagreeing. I can fully see and understand your point but I think it adds a bit more lee-way into the sport. Its the same as limiting the spending of the bigger teams, why? Why should we slow the sport down so the smaller teams can catch up? Yep... Really good way to take the sport forward. :rolleyes:

But it isnt slowing the cars down too much. Maybe be 2 - 3 seconds but not too much. The quick cars will still be quick, the slow cars will still be slow. Do you really think the Michelin would have wanted McLaren with a German engine to beat Renault?

This will make 2007 a lot fairer to the teams and reward good designs and teams who work with Bridgestone in a constructive manor, not teams that have to put up with whatever Renault or Ferrari used in the past.

[link92]

I agree 100%. Kimi will be No. 1 in that team and he will get all the backing. Massa is not a Ferrari to win the championship. If he doesn't thrash it to death first but I don't think he is a bad as a lot of people make him out to be.

Michael was rather aggressive, and we all though how unbeatably reliable the Ferrari was.

[smueboy]

What was the driving force behind the tyre thing - did Michelin pull out, were they forced out? Was it a push to have one manufacturer and Michelin lost the bid?

Given how essential tyre choice is, i'd still rather the teams have a choice of manufacturer.

[Markleshark]

Michael was rather aggressive, and we all though how unbeatably reliable the Ferrari was.

Not his driving style. His racing was, but his driving style wasnt.

If that makes sense to you.

[R.Youden]

What was the driving force behind the tyre thing - did Michelin pull out, were they forced out? Was it a push to have one manufacturer and Michelin lost the bid?

Given how essential tyre choice is, i'd still rather the teams have a choice of manufacturer.

The FIA said that they only wanted 1 tyre manufacturer and Michelin spat their dummy out first.

In defence of a single tyre manufacturer we have:


Indy 2005. If there was only 1 tyre manufacturer that would never had happened as there is not need to pust the tyre past the safety limit.
Budapest 2003. Think it was 2003 anyway. Bridgestone made a cock-up on tyre choice and the two Ferraris struggled to get into the points. People said it was great but I want to see the top teams and drivers battle it out.
General safety. Manufacturers won't push the limit as much and it will add more skill to the drivers, surely this is what people have been calling out for for years?

[iGav]

I hope we don't see too much of this this year:

Hamilton Smash (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56476)

I just can't help but think that he should've done a year as the 3rd driver, or maybe just testing before been thrown in the deep end like he has. Against Alonso too. :eek:

[smueboy]

General safety. Manufacturers won't push the limit as much and it will add more skill to the drivers, surely this is what people have been calling out for for years?

I see your point, but how is it different to the car/team manufacturers pushing the limit? It is similar to the premise that if all the cars were identical, then we'd really see what the drivers were made of.

[TrenchMouth]

I pretty much never keep up with any racing league, but because of this thread I have vowed to keep up on Formula 1 this year.

Thanks for that.

[R.Youden]

Red Bull have shown off their new car, the RB3 at Barcelona this morning. Looks a nice car. Mclaren style front nose (now thats a surprise!) and Ferrari style rear view mirrors!

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2007rb1/image/XPB_0XIJCOW0XH2KQO0EW37R5-2

[R.Youden]

Apparently the fault with the Honda was a wire coming off the gearbox, opps!

[iGav]

Lord (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news/2007/01/26/massa_crashes_f2007_at_vallelunga/) :rolleyes:

What with Kimi spending his time spinning and smacking up the F248 and Massa wiping out a F2007... I'm beginning to think... bring back Michael. And quick. :cool:

[R.Youden]

Lord (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news/2007/01/26/massa_crashes_f2007_at_vallelunga/) :rolleyes:

What with Kimi spending his time spinning and smacking up the F248 and Massa wiping out a F2007... I'm beginning to think... bring back Michael. And quick. :cool:

I think we may see quite a bit of this in 2007. The new harder Bridgestone will catch out a few drivers. Saying that though I was at Barcelona last year testing and Massa had a HUGE off in turn three so i dont think it is too much of a surprise!

[iGav]

Red Bull have shown off their new car, the RB3 at Barcelona this morning. Looks a nice car. Mclaren style front nose (now thats a surprise!) and Ferrari style rear view mirrors!

Were Red Bull running a no keel car last season? I can't recall. :confused:

Smooth looking car from Newey though... shame one of the 4 of them will have DC behind the wheel. :p

[R.Youden]

I think Red Bull ran with a single keel last year:

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2006bah1/image/GEPA_full_128918409_GEPA--2

I would rather have DC than Webber, it is anything but his own fault. I remember him giving a reason why he crashed. He went on for about 2 minutes and then finally said "I lost control and hit the wall", why didn't he just say that in the first place!

[Markleshark]

I've never understood pre-season testing you know, at least some of it.

I don't get what bolting this years spoiler onto last years car (For example) does for them, but it obviously serves a purpose for the teams/drivers.

We'll see, only time will tell, I for one don't read toooooo far into testing. The real stuff comes on that first Saturday Quali. ;)

[R.Youden]

I've never understood pre-season testing you know, at least some of it.

I don't get what bolting this years spoiler onto last years car (For example) does for them, but it obviously serves a purpose for the teams/drivers.

We'll see, only time will tell, I for one don't read toooooo far into testing. The real stuff comes on that first Saturday Quali. ;)

I agree! The most useful part of pre-season is putting miles on components, gbx, engine, transmission etc... Most of the teams have world class wind tunnels now so they do 90% of aero testing in the wind-tunnels. f course you still have to send the aero to tests before you ship it to a race but aero is no as critical for pre-season.

[Lord Blackadder]

I'm interested to see how Red Bull does this year with two veteran drivers and a 100% Adrian Newey car.

[iGav]

I'm interested to see how Red Bull does this year with two veteran drivers and a 100% Adrian Newey car.

...and 4 cars. ;) :p :p

The drivers are the weak link IMHO... DC has driven a Newey car for all but a couple of years of his career. To put that into perspective Newey cars have won in the last 17 years... numerous (that many, I can't bothered to count 'em) titles, DC never looked like winning the title. Once.

He'd make a great test driver though.

[R.Youden]

From this drawing it looks like Red Bull are running a twin keel. That is a surprise, I thought that most teams run with no keel these days. Who am I to question Newey though!

http://www.autosport.com/images/upload/1170021517.jpg

[Markleshark]

Who am I to question Newey though!

http://www.autosport.com/images/upload/1170021337.jpg

Exactly. :p

Plus, your photo doesn't work. Hehe.

Surprised to see Newey saying McLaren could have a strong year this year. Why would he have left then? Hmmm. This just in, an actual photo of his eyes:

£ £

[R.Youden]

Fixed, for now!

When I was at Honda I thought we should have tried to get Newey before he left for Red Bull, I don't it could have worked with Geoff Willis and Newey at the same team. I still think they where wrong to get rid of Geoff Willis but we shall see.

[iGav]

From this drawing it looks like Red Bull are running a twin keel. That is a surprise, I thought that most teams run with no keel these days. Who am I to question Newey though!

http://www.autosport.com/images/upload/1170021517.jpg

I'm not seeing any image... maybe my ISP is suffering the Monday morning blues. :(

I can't imagine a twin keel set up from Newey though, that'd be unusual... I've only seen one photo of the front of the car, from a slightly raised viewpoint, and judging by the angle of the lower wishbones it looked like the classic no keel layout.

I'll wait for my ISP to catch up first though. :p

[iGav]

I'm not seeing any image... maybe my ISP is suffering the Monday morning blues. :(

I can't imagine a twin keel set up from Newey though, that'd be unusual... I've only seen one photo of the front of the car, from a slightly raised viewpoint, and judging by the angle of the lower wishbones it looked like the classic no keel layout.

I'll wait for my ISP to catch up first though. :p

Okie doke... scrub that Gav. I've just been reading the technical analysis on Autosport, and it does indeed look like Red Bull are using a twin keel. Hmmmmmmm. Interesting indeed.

[Lord Blackadder]

Frank William's campaign (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38366) against "customer cars". WTF? I don't agree with the "no customer car" anyway - if they are trying to keep costs down and level the playing field, having customer cars seems a step in that direction.

[iGav]

Frank William's campaign (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38366) against "customer cars". WTF? I don't agree with the "no customer car" anyway - if they are trying to keep costs down and level the playing field, having customer cars seems a step in that direction.

Don't blame him to be honest... customer cars aren't legal for another season, and obviously Williams are going to struggle if 2 of the 3 teams below them start using works Honda's and Newey Red Bulls. :eek:

Also, teams using customer chassis, shouldn't be included in the World Constructors Championship. Only the drivers.

The only way around this as I see it, is to add another championship for teams.

So there would be...

World Drivers Championship = self explanatory
World Constructors Championship = those that design and build their own car
World Team Championship = Everyone.

Good to see Alonso's being a petulant little f**ker in testing again. :rolleyes: :mad:

[Lord Blackadder]

It's true, teams that simply buy a chassis didn't do the work that the constructors do. But Williams needs to talk to Max, not the customer teams. But I guess Max let it happen anyway, so legal action is the way.


Good to see Alonso's being a petulant little f**ker in testing again.

What's he up to this time? didn't see anything in the news lately.

[iGav]

It's true, teams that simply buy a chassis didn't do the work that the constructors do. But Williams needs to talk to Max, not the customer teams. But I guess Max let it happen anyway, so legal action is the way.

It'll go to arbitration come Australia, the FIA are staying out of it until the cars are presented for scrutineering in Oz, but I don't see how either Toro Rosso or Super Aguri can get away with it myself.

What's he up to this time? didn't see anything in the news lately.

He's a dick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2-nhAmywZ0&eurl=) :rolleyes:

Oh... how I wish he'd raced in Senna's time, Senna would've put him in the wall, and then given him a slap back in the paddock. :D

[Lord Blackadder]

Ha, that was a scumbag move to be sure.

NASCAR still sees a fair number of paddock punch-ups...are the F1 boys a bunch of pansies these days or what? :D

[R.Youden]

Alonso is really an idiot. Why do something like that? He certainly does nothing to win any friends. Hopefully this season Kimi will sort him out whilst Masa sticks one up his inside.

[Lord Blackadder]

The ultimate insult will be if Fisi beats him - not that I think Fisi has it in him, but it would be ironic.

[smueboy]

Frank William's campaign (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38366) against "customer cars". WTF? I don't agree with the "no customer car" anyway - if they are trying to keep costs down and level the playing field, having customer cars seems a step in that direction.


I agree with you - teams like Toro Rosso and Super Aguri would be hard pressed to survive financially if they weren't able to buy chassis, and one thing the sport doesn't want is to lose 2-3 teams (teams which, face it, aren't going to win the championship anyway).

[iGav]

teams like Toro Rosso and Super Aguri would be hard pressed to survive financially

Unlikely... considering both teams are partially owned and supported by multi-billion-$ corporations.

Still... if they can't survive financially, then so be it. F1 has lost far greater teams in the past.

(teams which, face it, aren't going to win the championship anyway).

But these teams, with their customer 'works' chassis, are likely to be capable of taking points from the likes of Williams and Spyker, who design and build their own cars. The potential loss in points will significantly affect those 2 teams incomes, because they'll finish lower in the championship.

The day F1 resorts to customer cars, is just one more step to F1 becomming a spec series like IRL or Champ Car. And that will be a sad, sad day in my opinion.

[takao]

to frank williams: welcome to 2007 where 1 company can own 2 formula 1 teams

[smueboy]

Unlikely... considering both teams are partially owned and supported by multi-billion-$ corporations.

Still... if they can't survive financially, then so be it. F1 has lost far greater teams in the past.

But these teams, with their customer 'works' chassis, are likely to be capable of taking points from the likes of Williams and Spyker, who design and build their own cars. The potential loss in points will significantly affect those 2 teams incomes, because they'll finish lower in the championship.

The day F1 resorts to customer cars, is just one more step to F1 becomming a spec series like IRL or Champ Car. And that will be a sad, sad day in my opinion.

I agree in principle, i have no love for either team and ideally F1 would be better without any customer cars, but F1 would be less fun to watch with only 8 or 9 teams if rules made it too hard for them to survive. Maybe your idea of three championships is a good one - let only 'constructors' compete for the World Constructors Championship. :)

[Lord Blackadder]

I have to think that if a customer chassis team started beating cunstructors, there would be immediate rule changes to keep them down. I'm sure they are allowed to compete only on the implied condition that they remain at the back of the grid.

Which is a bit stupid - why race if you have absolutely no chance of ever winning?

But at the same time I agree that teams like Spyker and Williams put in a much larger investment, which should be protected.

[R.Youden]

Well Williams have released their new car.

Hopefully it will be an improvement but I can't see who they will beat? I think Super cucumber and maybe Torro Roso will have the beating of them.

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/team-williams/diapo_103.jpg

[iGav]

Head: no customer car constructors points (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56580)

Makes sense.

Head also said that there remained some doubt about whether customer cars would be allowed from 2008, because the teams have not yet signed off approval in the new Concorde Agreement that will need to come into force.

"There is not a clear position. The 2008 technical regulations were stated by the FIA without discussion with the teams, but it's fully clear that there has to a be a new Concorde Agreement - and that we are told it has to be fixed by the middle of the year.

"The agreement we have signed with FOM says that the rules under which we will run from 2008 onwards will substantially be as per the 1998 Concorde Agreement."

Me thinks if Toro or Aguri are not prepared to compromise on the points thing, then the other teams won't sign up to allow customer cars in 2008.

Could throw a spanner in the works for the McLaren B Team.... errr I mean Prodrive's plans for next season. :D

[R.Youden]

I am not sure where I stand with this customer car deal. I can see why teams like Williams don't want teams to sell chassis etc and I can see why this would not be good for the sport of they can just pop-up and 'buy' a car.

BUT from what I can remember if there is less than a certain number of cars on the grid then the top teams, McLaren, Ferrari, Honda, Renault etc.. will have to field a third car, which would be even worse for Williams as they would be pushed even further down the grid. It would also get really messy for the fans if car-X can't score points but car-Y can so there is no point in trying to overtake.

Not sure where I stand on this.

[R.Youden]

While I am here I think we also have some good news. Abu Dabi has a contract from 2009 for a race and Bernie wants upto 20 races in a season. I think this is the way to go.

For fans who go to races it is very boring on teh Friday and Saturday morning. What they need to do is say that teams can run for as long as they want on Friday and use as many parts as they like, blow as many engines etc and then seal them on Saturday morning. Allow all the teams to run three cars and show the fans what they want to see, Formula One cars.

Testing is one of the biggest expenses in F1, most teams have personnel that are race team and test team which is a huge expense. Just my opinion, what does everyone else think?

[smueboy]

Head: no customer car constructors points (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56580)

Makes sense.


Well, there you go.

[R.Youden]

Well, there you go.

But that would be so confusing for fans and puts you in the situation where drivers won't want to risk overtaking another as they wont score points. I just don't think it will work.

[iGav]

But that would be so confusing for fans and puts you in the situation where drivers won't want to risk overtaking another as they wont score points. I just don't think it will work.

Which is why we need a 3rd championship for teams only.

[iGav]

Just my opinion, what does everyone else think?

I've always been of the opinion that scrapping testing is the way to go.

Replace it with unlimited running on Fridays, maybe even Thursdays too... with essentially no restrictions whatsoever.

And return proper qualifying for the Saturday whilst we're at it. ;)

[smueboy]

Which is why we need a 3rd championship for teams only.

That seems like the simplest and most direct answer to me.

Has it been suggested by anyone (other than yourself)? Maybe you should tell Frank? :p

[Lord Blackadder]

I don't like the current qualifying format, it's too Byzantine - though I won't pretend to have a strong opinion on how it should be instead. iGav's concept sounds as good as any, but anything that is less complex sounds like an improvement.

The idea of no constructor points for customer teams also sounds fair to me, even if the constructor teams fight it tooth and nail. If you design a car, you are a constructor. If you just buy one, you aren't a constructor - you are a "privateer".

Having a "Team Championship" as a third trophy might be too confusing though - would it include all teams of just non-constructor teams? The latter option would give the bottom feeders something they might actually win, so that's a point in its favor.

[smueboy]

Having a "Team Championship" as a third trophy might be too confusing though - would it include all teams of just non-constructor teams? The latter option would give the bottom feeders something they might actually win, so that's a point in its favor.

I was thinking it would just be open to all teams (as the current constructor championship is), but that would mean the top teams would just win it anyway. A non-constructor championship would give the 'bottom feeders' somthing to live for, but i doubt it would be accepted by all teams.

[R.Youden]

Just found a picture of the new Abui Dabi circuit on Autosport. It looks like yet another indy go-kart track on steroids!

[SpookTheHamster]

Just found a picture of the new Abui Dabi circuit on Autosport. It looks like yet another indy go-kart track on steroids!

Ugh, what's wrong with track designers nowadays? When will they realise that drivers AND spectators want corners faster than 3rd gear?!

[R.Youden]

Spyker F1 have launched their new car today:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/spyker_f8-vii_launch_2007_2.jpg

We have all the big name cars out already and so far McLaren are looking very strong. I imagine that they will be the team to beat, along with Ferrari.

I expect Spyker to challenge Williams but I fear it will be too far back the grid for anyone to notice!

[Markleshark]

Spyker F1 have launched their new car today:

We have all the big name cars out already and so far McLaren are looking very strong. I imagine that they will be the team to beat, along with Ferrari.

I expect Spyker to challenge Williams but I fear it will be too far back the grid for anyone to notice!

That I like. I loves me some Orange. They wont be, but I hope they are strong.

[mfacey]

Ugh, what's wrong with track designers nowadays? When will they realise that drivers AND spectators want corners faster than 3rd gear?!

I'll second that. I'm still annoyed they took Suzuka off the calendar. That was (and still is) an amazing circuit!

[mfacey]

Spyker F1 have launched their new car today:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/spyker_f8-vii_launch_2007_2.jpg

We have all the big name cars out already and so far McLaren are looking very strong. I imagine that they will be the team to beat, along with Ferrari.

I expect Spyker to challenge Williams but I fear it will be too far back the grid for anyone to notice!


I really hope for the sake of Spyker that they'll be further up the grid, but I'm sceptical. I don't think Williams will be at the bottom of the grid though. And definitely not fighting with Spyker. I expect Williams to be in the middle of the competition fighting the likes of Red Bull and maybe BMW. The Toyota engine has a lot of potential and the Williams team is very strong, with huge amounts of experience!

[Counterfit]

See Renault? THAT'S how you use orange. At least McLaren and Spyker know how to use the damn color.
I expect Spyker to challenge Williams but I fear it will be too far back the grid for anyone to notice!
With that paint, how could you NOT notice it. I bet you won't see many people hitting it in the wet.

[Lord Blackadder]

Nice colors - let's hope Spyker have better luck than they did as Midland or Jordan.

[smueboy]

See Renault? THAT'S how you use orange. At least McLaren and Spyker know how to use the damn color.

it does look good.


With that paint, how could you NOT notice it. I bet you won't see many people hitting it in the wet.

...or maybe they'll be drawn to it like moths to a flame...

[R.Youden]

With that paint, how could you NOT notice it. I bet you won't see many people hitting it in the wet.

Only because everyone was in-front of it :rolleyes:

[Lord Blackadder]

Only tangentially related to F1 in 2007, but...

Schu offered NASCAR test. (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38469)

Puleeeze...I can only reprint Michael, he said it better than anyone:


“Personally I wouldn’t do it,” he said at Magny-Cours last July.

“What do you do in NASCAR? What is exciting there?

“I can’t see that, running around on ovals.”

:rolleyes:

[heehee]

Only tangentially related to F1 in 2007, but...

Schu offered NASCAR test. (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38469)

Puleeeze...I can only reprint Michael, he said it better than anyone:


:rolleyes:

:D

[Markleshark]

Only tangentially related to F1 in 2007, but...

Schu offered NASCAR test. (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38469)

Puleeeze...I can only reprint Michael, he said it better than anyone:



:rolleyes:

Then he'll go...

"How Much? Don't mind if I do"

I hope for the sake of those who watch NASCAR (Don't know why you would, NASCAR sucks :p) he doesn't get a drive, because you don't want to listen to the same drivel us F1 fans have had to for the last far too many years, oh, hes a bit of a cheat as well as a sore looser. However, him and Montoya would be fun, not exactly the best of friends.

[Counterfit]

Only because everyone was in-front of it :rolleyes:

Not when they start goinng a lap down. :p
hes a bit of a cheat as well as a sore looser.

Actually, he'd be pretty tame for NASCRAP. He's never thrown his helmet at someone still driving on the track, and he was unseuccessful in his one attempt at punching someone (actually, I don't think he threw a punch, he just yelled a bit as his engineers got in the way.) Plus, how many crew cheifs were suspended this past season for illegal cars? At least 5.

[iGav]

Schu offered NASCAR test. (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38469) :rolleyes:

I can so see Schu, after 16 years of hanging it out round the likes of Eau Rouge, 130R, Peralta, Curva Parabolica and Tamburello, deciding to go and race with a bunch of fat, old, rednecks that have an aversion to turning right. ;)

[®îçhå®?]

(Don't know why you would, NASCAR sucks :p)

Don't go saying that in Alabama if you go (aah Top Gear is great)

[whooleytoo]

Nice colors - let's hope Spyker have better luck than they did as Midland or Jordan.

Jordan had what, 3 race wins? That's more than a lot of F1 teams in the past.

[iGav]

Jordan had what, 3 race wins?

4.

Though 2 of those were massively flukey. Belgium 1998 and Brazil 2003.

But still, as you say it is indeed more than a lot of F1 teams in the past.

[whooleytoo]

4.

Though 2 of those were massively flukey. Belgium 1998 and Brazil 2003.

But still, as you say it is indeed more than a lot of F1 teams in the past.


The win in Magny Cours (don't recall the year) involved a bit of fortune too, as it was the rain falling that forced everyone to change strategies. I'm trying to think of the 4th, was it Monza?

[Lord Blackadder]

4.

Though 2 of those were massively flukey. Belgium 1998 and Brazil 2003.

But still, as you say it is indeed more than a lot of F1 teams in the past.

I think I saw the 2003 win - wasn't there a crash on the last lap that took the leaders out and the Jordan was gifted 1st?

[whooleytoo]

I think I saw the 2003 win - wasn't there a crash on the last lap that took the leaders out and the Jordan was gifted 1st?

I think there was a crash on almost EVERY lap! ;)

There was rainwater flowing across the track on turn 2, while other parts of the circuit were almost dry - several cars went off there. In the end the race ended early, I don't recall if it was due to the time limit or if it was stopped as the conditions were too dangerous.

Either way, Fisichella won but wasn't awarded the victory until they realized their mistake, and was awarded the trophy in a small ceremony on track at the next race!

It's one of the tracks I'd love to go to, hope to go this year or next.

[Markleshark]

NASCRAP.

LOL, NASCRAP, I hope you don't mind I'm stealing that and using it from now on.


Don't go saying that in Alabama if you go (aah Top Gear is great)

lol, it was sooooo good. :D

[iGav]

I think I saw the 2003 win - wasn't there a crash on the last lap that took the leaders out and the Jordan was gifted 1st?

I don't recall if it was due to the time limit or if it was stopped as the conditions were too dangerous.

Webber lost it in the final banking, and smacked the wall, and Alonso came along, ignored the waved yellows and hit Webbers debris at full blast and smacked into the barriers at a heavy rate of knots.

Race was stopped because the debris had effectively blocked the track. The conditions weren't too bad at the time either ironically.

Rinky dink link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yf8-oQXO2B8)

[smueboy]

LOL, NASCRAP, I hope you don't mind I'm stealing that and using it from now on.

That is good. :)

[Lord Blackadder]

Webber lost it in the final banking, and smacked the wall, and Alonso came along, ignored the waved yellows and hit Webbers debris at full blast and smacked into the barriers at a heavy rate of knots.

Rinky dink link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yf8-oQXO2B8)

I love YouTube...hmmm, the track didn't look all that bad, now that I've seen it again.

[smueboy]

Webber lost it in the final banking, and smacked the wall, and Alonso came along, ignored the waved yellows and hit Webbers debris at full blast and smacked into the barriers at a heavy rate of knots.

Race was stopped because the debris had effectively blocked the track. The conditions weren't too bad at the time either ironically.

Rinky dink link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yf8-oQXO2B8)


It makes you appreciate how dangerous it was when there were tyres flying everwhere, and how much it has improved since.

[Lord Blackadder]

F1 considering night races. (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38489)

Comments? I think it sounds gimmicky.

[iGav]

I think it sounds gimmicky.

I'd go with that. I think it would've been a little different had the cars been lower, with titanium skid blocks like they used to have back in the '80's and '90's because the amount of sparks they left in their wake was spectacular, and really would've looked cool in the dark. :D

But they don't do that anymore... :( the brakes glow though. :rolleyes: :p

[mfacey]

I'd go with that. I think it would've been a little different had the cars been lower, with titanium skid blocks like they used to have back in the '80's and '90's because the amount of sparks they left in their wake was spectacular, and really would've looked cool in the dark. :D

But they don't do that anymore... :( the brakes glow though. :rolleyes: :p

Don't forget the flames and small explosions in the exhaust!

I think it would be cool, kind of hard to follow maybe though. Watching Le Mans at night bothers me. It really depends on how they do it.

[iGav]

Don't forget the flames and small explosions in the exhaust!

That's true... I forgot about those. :)

I think it would be cool, kind of hard to follow maybe though. Watching Le Mans at night bothers me. It really depends on how they do it.

The track would be fully illuminated, unlike Le Mans. More like what they do in some U.S. series.

[iGav]

Schumi to test the F2007? (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070216092720.shtml)

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Lord Blackadder]

I wonder how Raikkonen would feel about that...if he has enough personality to feell anything at all.

[smueboy]

F1 considering night races. (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38489)

Comments? I think it sounds gimmicky.

I'd be interested to at least see one or two night races to know what it's like, but then i predict the track would be so lit up that there'd be no real point.

[R.Youden]

I am sure you have all heard about Williams saying that they will go to court over teams like Super Aguri and Toro Rosso. They have now turned around and said that they helped develop the Toyota gearbox for 2007.

Come on Frank, play the game! I have worked with the head of trans-mechanical at Williams and he certainly had a reputation so Toyota must be desperate.

[iGav]

I am sure you have all heard about Williams saying that they will go to court over teams like Super Aguri and Toro Rosso. They have now turned around and said that they helped develop the Toyota gearbox for 2007.

Come on Frank, play the game! I have worked with the head of trans-mechanical at Williams and he certainly had a reputation so Toyota must be desperate.

I didn't think that was all that unusual though in a manufacturer and customer relationship.

[R.Youden]

I didn't think that was all that unusual though in a manufacturer and customer relationship.

I know it isnt unusual. The problem is that a gearbox is one of the most complex parts of the car so where does it stop.

Making a gearbox and engine together to designing a whole chassis. Its a fine line but where does it stop? I think Williams need to look at what they are doing here.

[murdoc158]

Wow my first stumble into off-topic and I see an F-1 thread. This forum is great! I think Ferrari should do pretty well assuming Kimi has a good showing this year. I have to pull for BMW-Sauber though. Kubica and Vettle (test driver) showed some major talent last year. Kubica seems to have what it takes to win and lead his team to a championship.

[iGav]

Making a gearbox and engine together to designing a whole chassis. Its a fine line but where does it stop? I think Williams need to look at what they are doing here.

But the engine and gearbox has always been an area where manufacturers and customers collaborate, and share data to jointly develop and improve the performance and technology of the engine and/or gearbox if the manufacturer has supplied that too.

This is nothing new and is implicitly outside of the 'Constructor' remit. I'm not sure if it's possible, or fair even to compare what Super Aguri and Toro Rosso are doing in comparison.

I don't see what Williams (and Toyota) are doing is hypocritical, nor against the rules as I understand them.

[Lord Blackadder]

Red Bull and Toro Rosso Drivers in PR Stunt film. (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38514)

I actually want to see this...it will be totally ridiculous! :D

BTW, what do you all think about JV shooting his mouth off once again, slamming Kimi in particular? I think he just needs to shut it...

[HSX]

JV will be JV... I think Webber needs to shut it more.

[Lord Blackadder]

JV will be JV... I think Webber needs to shut it more.

I like some of what he says, but other times not so much. He needs to make an impact this year - it would not do to be overshadowed by DC.

Scott Speed has been retained by Toro Rosso (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38528). That's great...now beat Liuzzi! I want to see American drivers in F1, but if they aren't competitive it's a waste of a seat. I predict he'll be slow again and will be gone in '08 (maybe earlier), though I hope I'm wrong.

[R.Youden]

The new 2007 Honda livery:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/lori188/4704.jpg

Just before I left Honda someone mentioned that the new livery would be like this. I thought they where joking! This looks terrible, I wont stand out at all. I hope there is more contrast to the colours that this. That will be one big sticker over the car which will be very hard to make it look good. Also that URL doesn't exist on the rear wing. Again it highlights the inability of the Honda PR department to get a good sponsor. While I was there they got the bloke in who was PR man for the Spice Girls and David Beckham, taht worked well then!

[smueboy]

That's terrible; looks like a funny car. :eek:

You're not pulling our leg are you? :rolleyes:

[iGav]

This looks terrible, I wont stand out at all.

Makes absolutely no difference when they resume their mid-pack status this season. Weheh.

Oh, and Honda obviously don't 'do' irony. ;)

[iGav]

Also that URL doesn't exist on the rear wing.

It does now (http://www.myearthdream.com/).

[Lord Blackadder]

Nice paint job, but goofy for an F1 car...you won't see the bearded hippies that frighten Jeremy Clarkson flocking around this car just because they painted an "Earth dream" on it....:rolleyes:

Maybe the new Honda driving suit will be a Jesus-like toga with sandals.

[R.Youden]

They have been quick with the URL then. Looks like it is genuine if they have a launch date of Tuesday and the car is launched tomorrow. I like how on the map Japan is on the engine cover.

Honda are really struggling to get grip with the rear tyres and they have remove the little wing-lets at the chimneys. Also they have been running so far with last years suspension with the new version being introduced at Bahrain test this week and they have been more competative. The next test is a big one for all teams.

In three weeks time we will see how all the hard work has got on.

[R.Youden]

Well this is the launch. It looks, erm. interesting:

http://www.hondaracingf1.com/images/gallery/4706_800.jpg

Now remind me, which ones are the drivers?

[iGav]

Via the website myearthdream.com, anyone who wishes, will have the opportunity to have their name on the car, make a pledge to make a lifestyle change to improve the environment and make a donation to an environmental charity. Under the concept of "our car is your car", each name will form a tiny individual pixel which will help build the image of planet earth on the car. Each name will be visible on the website when you make the pledge or under a microscope on the car.

Okay. :rolleyes: :p

Honda definitely don't do irony do they. :p

Linky (http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s169/st112434.htm?fromrss=1)

[R.Youden]

Having your name on the car is really good idea. I think a LeMans team used to do that, can't remember the name off the top of my head.

Everyone that works for Honda used to have their name on the inside of the rear-wing end plate which was good. It doesn't look like they are doing that agin this year. Maybe I can try and get my name on the car again as an ex-employee (do you think they would give me a discount?)

[iGav]

Having your name on the car is really good idea.

It is if you can actually see it... :p

each name will form a tiny individual pixel

[R.Youden]

True!

What I hope the do is like a promotional pack. Say £20 with a certain percentage going to charity. With that you get a small name / logo on the car and a little booklet with a photo of your name / logo on the car.

Remember that website where a guy sold 1 million pixels to make a million dollars, something like that.

[iGav]

True!

What I hope the do is like a promotional pack. Say £20 with a certain percentage going to charity. With that you get a small name / logo on the car and a little booklet with a photo of your name / logo on the car.

Remember that website where a guy sold 1 million pixels to make a million dollars, something like that.

I have to be honest, I'm usually completely cynical of anything to do with Honda, but I really do actually like this concept... it's certainly original, and to a degree brave considering F1's reputation.

I can't help but feel that it's a couple of years ahead of it's time though, that would be more suitable once F1 begins to develop and use more environmentally friendly technology.

But yeah... I'd buy a £20 promo pack.

[Lord Blackadder]

I love the launch photo...Rubens and Jense each have a Mini-Me!

This looks interesting, but nobody will care if Honda isn't competitive...

[Jasonbot]

*picture*

Now remind me, which ones are the drivers?

Well its probably not the car-show display models sitting in front

[R.Youden]

The young drivers are at it again:

http://www.autosport.com/images/upload/1172571310.jpg

I hope this picture still works, I keep getting problems linking from Autosport!

[smueboy]

It didn't work for me at first, (EDIT: and then it did, but still), Ouch!:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56961

[iGav]

FIA postpones heat recovery plans (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56971)

or 2011, the FIA hopes that a new four-race engine will include high-efficiency turbo charging, fuel flow limits, direct injection and the use of bio fuels.

:cool: :cool: :cool:

The FIA is also considering completely freeing up driver aids.

I wonder if this means we'll be seeing a return to the all singing, all dancing über cars of the early 1990's?

[Lord Blackadder]

I wonder if this means we'll be seeing a return to the all singing, all dancing über cars of the early 1990's?

I like many of the new ideas, but I'm not a fan of driver aids. I think they suck, to be blunt. You pay the top drivers in the world mad cash to do what? Engage the "launch control" button and then mash their foot down? I can do that!

[R.Youden]

I am shocked at the 'news' the FIA wants to bring back driver aids.

For 2008 every car must run the same ECU and electronic systems. This is due to 'cost cutting' but the main reason is to prevent cheating. If every team runs the same ECU and control systems it is far easier for the FIA to debug and find the loop holes. The common ECU is one of the reasons why I left F1 and now they are opening up the software, thats doesn't make sense to me so I doubt it will happen.

[iGav]

Tyre types will be visibly distinguished (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57090)

I can't remember, but did the FIA push through the rules that both compounds of tyre have to be used in a race? I forget.

Anyway, surely the easiest way to do the colour-coding is to just change the colour of the 'Bridgestone Potenza' lettering on the tyres, and rather than worry about a soft compound being a medium at some circuits, just have the colour code be displayed at the beginning of each race, so regardless of colour the fans know which is the softer of the two compounds.

[R.Youden]

Well only one week to go until the start of the new season. The usual excuses are coming along. Honda saying they will make the best out of what they have got. BMW explaining that they have got all they can out of the car and Toyota doing last minute testing to see where it has all gone wrong, again!

If anyone is in the UK on ITV there is a program on at 5:05 about how McLaren have gone about building this years car. I am sure their "we have the right to win, even if we are not good enough" attitude will come across as usual. I had a chance to get a job with them, so glad I didn't now!

So, how does everyone see the championship panning out? This is my take on it:

1. Massa
2. Kimi
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. JB
6. Fissi
7. (one of the BMW drivers)
8. Rubens
9. (other BMW driver)
10. Kovalainen

[mfacey]

So, how does everyone see the championship panning out? This is my take on it:

1. Massa
2. Kimi
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. JB
6. Fissi
7. (one of the BMW drivers)
8. Rubens
9. (other BMW driver)
10. Kovalainen

The entire top ten is very difficult to predict. I'm not sure Massa has what it takes to become world champion just yet.

Here's my guess for the top 5:
1. Kimi
2. Massa
3. Fisichella
4. Alonso
5. Hamilton

As for the remaining 5 of the top ten, who knows! I'm guessing Kovalainen won't be that far down though!

[R.Youden]

The entire top ten is very difficult to predict. I'm not sure Massa has what it takes to become world champion just yet.

Here's my guess for the top 5:
1. Kimi
2. Massa
3. Fisichella
4. Alonso
5. Hamilton

As for the remaining 5 of the top ten, who knows! I'm guessing Kovalainen won't be that far down though!

I don't think Fissi will be that far up. Renault have some real problems which is why they are both down the order. Massa is high on confidence at the moment and he has the edge over Kimi, if it continues and gets tight then Ferrari may back Massa.

[mfacey]

I don't think Fissi will be that far up. Renault have some real problems which is why they are both down the order. Massa is high on confidence at the moment and he has the edge over Kimi, if it continues and gets tight then Ferrari may back Massa.

In the past season Renault and Ferrari were the only two consistently reliable cars. I think Fisi has a lot of talent. If the car holds up he should be in for a good year.

As for Massa and Kimi, Massa has more experience with the team and car, but Raikonnen knows what it takes to be world champion (coming so close in previous years). He's a very talented driver. With all the commotion surrounding the signing of Kimi by Ferrari, I highly doubt they would give Massa preferential treatment over Kimi. All eyes will be focussed on him!

[R.Youden]

Bernie has been speaking to the media, again.

Now he wants to change the points system. He says that the points for the top three 10-8-6 does not encourage racing. I agree with him there. What was wrong with 10-6-4. If they want more teams to get points then make it 20-15-12-10-8-6-4-2 plus 1 for pole and 1 for fastest lap.

Before I worked F1 I thought Bernie was an idiot, but after seeing things from the other side he is a top bloke who knows what he is on about. And Max Mosely is the opposite. I thought he was the good guy, but now I realise he hasn't got a clue and the longer he stays the head of the FIA the more damage he can do.

[iGav]

Now he wants to change the points system.

Of course he does, there's no more Schumacher that's why. ;)

[MP4-22]

I think the top ten would be

1. Räikkönen*
2. Massa*
3. Alonso
4. Fisichella
5. Hamilton
6. Kovalainen
7. Barrichello
8. Button
9. Webber
10. Kubica

*Depends on who's Ferrari main driver.

[R.Youden]

Super Aguri have launched the 'new' (sorry RA106) today. It looks an OK car with some extra features over the old Honda. The new nose wings are a bit different! Anyway here is the pic for you all:

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/team-aguri/diapo_120.jpg

[giganten]

my guess for the top 5:

1. Kimi
2. Kovalainen
3. Massa
4. Alonso
5. Hamilton

[iGav]

:eek: :D :cool:

"Nick's demonstration will not be about setting records, but a tribute to a unique race track - one which is inextricably linked to the heritage of BMW Motorsport."

Yeah right... I bet they'll try and nab the official lap record of 6:25 then try and blitz Bellof's 24 year old outright record of 6:11.

Rinky dink link (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38657)

Still though... a modern F1 car at the 'Ring. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[link92]

:eek: :D :cool:



Yeah right... I bet they'll try and nab the official lap record of 6:25 then try and blitz Bellof's 24 year old outright record of 6:11.

Rinky dink link (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38657)

Still though... a modern F1 car at the 'Ring. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Knowing what Toyota did at Laguna Sega (a demo run, where they were using hard tyres and not pushing…) and still destroyed the lap record, I expect BMW will get under 6 minutes without any problem.

[Lord Blackadder]

Practice 1 in Melbourne today! (http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_1985905,00.html)

I have a hunch about Alonso...he seems like one of those rare drivers that doesn't need a better car to win, and he has the hunger...so I'll vote him to take the driver's championship, but Ferrari to take the Constructor's:

1.Alonso
2.Massa
3.Raikkonen
4.Kovalainen
5.Hamilton

The Hondas appear to be slow, so maybe no sophmore win for Button...and I think Fisi is finished after this season, and probably Scott Speed too.

[mfacey]

Scott Speed should've been finished last season. It's a pity there are plenty of talented drivers out there but Red Bull Toro Rosso decided to stick with this rather mediocre American who also happens to be a particularly unpleasant guy!

[R.Youden]

It was good to see more cars running today. As I think everyone expected the Ferraris where strong, as where the McLarens. BMW looks strong too. It is just a bit embarrassing for Honda as they are being beaten by last years car with Super Aguri. Qualifying should be interesting as there are lots of cars within a very tight time frame. Looking forward to getting up a 3am to watch it tomorrow morning.

Also why does Autosport still say which tyre manufacturer each driver is using?

[giganten]

http://www.formula1.com/race/news/5787/770.html

Ferrari team mates Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen set the pace in Friday’s second practice for the Australian Grand Prix. However, with McLaren’s Lewis Hamilton, Renault’s Giancarlo Fisichella and BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld all close behind, the Italian team look unlikely to have things all their own way this weekend.

Unfortunately for Renault, Fisichella’s car then also stopped, also in Turn 4. It’s an unusual day when neither Renault is around at the finish. In both cases the team blamed fuel pressure problems, the causes of which are being investigated.

[kretzy]

I think they must have started the qualifiers because I can hear the distant humming has started up for the weekend.

[OwlsAndApples]

my guess for the top 5:

1. Kimi
2. Kovalainen
3. Massa
4. Alonso
5. Hamilton

Mine's similar:

1. Kimi
2. Alonso
3. Massa
4. Kovalainen
5. Hamilton (well...that's kind of wishful thinking I suppose, it'd be sooo good if he can do this in his first season...:) )

[Lord Blackadder]

Just got back from the brewpub, and I'm a little too drunk to sleep....

Kimi is on pole (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6461149.stm) with Alonso in second...and interestingly enough they are follwed by Heidfeld, Hamilton and Kubica. The BMWs are for real, apparently.

[mfacey]

Hmmm should be an interesting race!

Just wondering: Are they still using that silly qualifying system they introduced last year?

[R.Youden]

Hmmm should be an interesting race!

Just wondering: Are they still using that silly qualifying system they introduced last year?

Yup they are still using that "silly" qualifying from last year. In my opinion it is great. No more just sitting there watching one car go round at a time, you now get some competition during qualifying. Plus it makes the teams think on their feet and gives them more to do. Great stuff!

[mfacey]

I guess it has its advantages. I personally preferred the one-shot qualifying they used in 2005. It made matters quite exciting and if it started to rain halfway qualifying the top teams were all stuck at the back of the grid. :rolleyes:

[®îçhå®?]

I guess it has its advantages. I personally preferred the one-shot qualifying they used in 2005. It made matters quite exciting and if it started to rain halfway qualifying the top teams were all stuck at the back of the grid. :rolleyes:

Totally agree. Bring back the old system. So much has changed in F1 over the last 5 years though.

Hamilton seemed to have a good qualifying session though which was good to see

[Markleshark]

BMW and Super Aguri were the surprises for me.

Kimi on pole though, so bring on the race! :D

[R.Youden]

I think my problem with the old system was the way that the running order was decided. If you had a bad race or an engine failure in the previous race then you would be qualifying 18th or something when the track was slow so you couldn't get into the top 8 if you where a front runner. In this situation it could take you 2 - 3 races to make up for a bad result. I think thats what happened to Kimi in 2005.

My opinion is that a race should be a weekend and what happens at one race should have no affect on the next.

Super Aguri where quick, but that car was on pole in Australia last year!

[giganten]

BMW and Super Aguri were the surprises for me.

Kimi on pole though, so bring on the race! :D

Yeah, same here.

[mfacey]

Super Aguri where quick, but that car was on pole in Australia last year!

What an embarrassment for the factory Honda team! :eek: I'm guessing its just a one-off though. Pity that Spyker is way off the pace, I was expecting more!

[giganten]

What an embarrassment for the factory Honda team! :eek:

Yes..
and just the paintwork is an embarrassment too.

[JFreak]

Bernie has been speaking to the media, again. Now he wants to change the points system. He says that the points for the top three 10-8-6 does not encourage racing. I agree with him there. What was wrong with 10-6-4. If they want more teams to get points then make it 20-15-12-10-8-6-4-2 plus 1 for pole and 1 for fastest lap.

Why not returning back to the 9-6-4-3-2-1 system plus granting extra point for pole and fastest lap? That would be ideal points system in my opinion.

Reasoning being that giving too much points will make it more important to finish every race. Currently the 2nd place driver can many times think that 8 points are already earned (given that the car can make it to the finish line) and that the extra 2 points is only 25% more --> no reason to try anything stupid and risk the 8 points.

But if the winner got 9 and the 2nd place driver only 6, the points difference of victory is 50% more than one would get from the 2nd place. And furthermore, if the effort did bring extra point for the fastest lap, then it's 67% more than the safe and secure 2nd place.

Also, one retirement from 2nd place (minus six points) would be compensated with two victories (two times plus three points). Currently one retirement from 2nd place is minus eight points and one needs four victories to compensate. It makes sense to not drive for victory because penalty for a mistake is so big.

It would also require FIA to drop the fuel rule from the qualifying session. If there's an extra point for pole position, then everyone should be given equal chances to race for it. That too would make me happy. I want to know that the pole really goes to the fastest driver of the day. In my opinion race strategies belong to the racing day and not to the qualifications.

[Lord Blackadder]

It will be interesting to see Super Aguri scoring regular points, while Honda struggles....

[R.Youden]

I think soon that Honda will get the better of Super Aguri. If Honda had used the RA106 and developed it into the RA107 then they will be further up the grid BUT they have limited amount of development work that can be done with the old chassis. The new RA107 has potential far outstretching the Super Aguri.

I am sure that this is the same with every other team, if they ran the car they finished the Brazilian grand prix with then they would be about half a second faster now, but that car does not have the potential that their new ones do. Ferrari used to do this and I am surprised more teams don't do this anymore.

[Lord Blackadder]

That's true. Of course, it's all the more reason for Super Aguri to go for broke at the beginning of the season and pick up some points before the newer chassis bump them down the grid.

[R.Youden]

Thinking about it, from what I can remember just before I left Honda the situation was that for the first three races Super Aguri would run the RA106 with Honda running the RA107. After the third race Super Aguri would get all the old parts from the RA107 and Honda would have a large upgrade. So maybe Super Aguri wont want the new RA107?

[giganten]

Thinking about it, from what I can remember just before I left Honda

Did you work for the F1-team, can I ask what you did?

[Counterfit]

It would also require FIA to drop the fuel rule from the qualifying session. If there's an extra point for pole position, then everyone should be given equal chances to race for it. That too would make me happy. I want to know that the pole really goes to the fastest driver of the day. In my opinion race strategies belong to the racing day and not to the qualifications.

I would love for that to happen. And personally, I preferred the "12 laps, one hour" format, and if they want to equalize the TV time, require at least one lap in the first/second/third 20 minutes.

Did you work for the F1-team, can I ask what you did?

My guess is software, seeing as he left due to the forthcoming spec ECU.

[Counterfit]

Another thought just came to me. Now that Michael is retired, will Ralf be SCH, or will he remain RSC?

[giganten]

Another thought just came to me. Now that Michael is retired, will Ralf be SCH, or will he remain RSC?

Ralf was RSC when i did watch the qualifying on tv.

[Lord Blackadder]

Another thought just came to me. Now that Michael is retired, will Ralf be SCH, or will he remain RSC?

There can be only one SCH. :D

[R.Youden]

Did you work for the F1-team, can I ask what you did?

I had the glamorous title of "Electronic Parts Integrity Controller". My main responsibility was to ensure that all the electronics on the car worked correctly when it got to the track (not always that easy). I was also responsible for the design and manufacture of our factory based test equipment, such as our virtual car.

The reason I left was a) to complete a masters degree in electronics, and b) as stated, the single ECU was killing electronics in Formula One with everything being purchased from TAG so there was no need to test anything or have factory based test equipment! Thanks Max!

[Lord Blackadder]

The reason I left was a) to complete a masters degree in electronics, and b) as stated, the single ECU was killing electronics in Formula One with everything being purchased from TAG so there was no need to test anything or have factory based test equipment! Thanks Max!

Do you think you'll ever want to go back if the opportunity arises?

[R.Youden]

Do you think you'll ever want to go back if the opportunity arises?

I think the main thing is that I am an electronics engineer. The only way I would go back is as such. I would only go and work there on my terms if you like.

But if the opportunity did arise then I would jump at it. From an engineering point of view it is a great environment to work in as you tend to get a very large budget and you can work with the best equipment.

Anyway its bloody 3am and on with the race.....

[AlBDamned]

Guys, apropos to nothing, the Oz GP is the first time I've seen a GP in Australia (moved here in December) and I was amazed to find that Murray Walker is one of the main commentators!

Genius returns! :D

[R.Youden]

Well Kimi won a pretty uneventful race (it will be so much better without Schumacher!). Alonso finished 2nd with Hamilton 3rd.

Great drive by Lewis, Kovalainen was very poor in my opinion. Made a number of mistakes where as Hamilton was very smooth. I am sick of how ITV are making such a big thing about him. He is a racing driver, it is his job and he is very talented and he is in a very quick car.

[Lord Blackadder]

Hamilton certainly has his bread buttered on both sides with McLaren at the moment...Cue the crushingly oppressive UK news coverage. Congrats to him though on scoring a podium in his first race.

Looks like the stage is set for an epic Kimi vs Alonso season.

I expect to see a lot of Massa too - Hamilton will have his work cut out for him to repeat the feat.

[Jon'sLightBulbs]

KIMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

You are the man. Have another swig of that champagne. Just like we thought, it was the car last year, not you. I will sleep well tonight.

Everyone else... watch out for Heidfeld and Kubica! Sauber may have been just a "first step" into F1 for both our current Ferrari protagonists. But if things continue like they did today, Sauber may be fighting Renault for 3rd by the end of the season!

Dear Tony Kart: you can have Schumacher during the season as well. We're doing just fine without him! (And this comes from a Schumacher admirer.) He may have been an icon while he was in the sport, but the status quo has been unequivocally upended since his departure.

Here's to the start of an incredibly refreshing season.

[AlBDamned]

Here's to the start of an incredibly refreshing season.

Have to agree there. Schumacher was undoubtedly an incredible driver, but this race really felt good to watch and that's not been the case for a while.

Also, I think the criticisms of the ITV coverage on Hamilton are unjustified. On Oz TV, there was much talk about Hamilton, and it was substantiated when Murray Walker interviewed Stirling Moss afterwards and Moss stated that Lewis is quite possible the most exciting thing to happen to F1 for years.

The last time a rookie had that sort of impact he went on to win seven world titles.

[Counterfit]

The last time a rookie had that sort of impact he went on to win seven world titles.

Indeed. :cool:

But now I'm wondering, will Schumi ever have corners named after him? Well, there is that one at Fiorano, but he did help design it, so that's to be expected.

[AlBDamned]

But now I'm wondering, will Schumi ever have corners named after him?

Maybe he'll get a few run-off areas named after him... ;)

Seriously though, he does deserve one or two, perhaps at the scenes of his best races - but then so does Mika Hakkinen.

[giganten]

Kimi did a great race, exactly like I thought.
Hamilton did impress me. I know he was good, but 3rd in his first race.
Kovalaninen and renault was an disappointment.

I know it only was the first race for the season.
But I have to change my top 5, I think Kovalainen will have problem whit the car and lose important points in the beginning of the season.
my guess for the top 5:

1. Kimi
2. Kovalainen
3. Massa
4. Alonso
5. Hamilton

1. Kimi
2. Massa
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. Maybe Kovalainen

[R.Youden]

I know that Hamilton has done fantastic, but he has been building up to this role for many years now. He has had full support from McLaren for the last 11 years and he has impressed at every level, the way he drove in GP2 last year was brilliant. I was lucky enough to see him at Silverstone last year when he pulled some amazing moves around the Becketts complex and he was totally committed.

My opinion is why would anyone expect anything different. In the way he has driven for the last 11 years he is a very natural driver and with the support of McLaren the progression into Formula One was a natural one and he showed full commitment in the second best car on the grid.

Keep up the good work Lewis, you are a fantastic driver and I hope all this over-reaction by the media does not affect you.

[Lord Blackadder]

What the heck is Briatore doing bad mouthing (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38724) Kovalainen? It sounds like a little tantrum from Flav. Fisi has done well at Melburne before and then sucked for the rest of the season. He'll probably fade away like he did last year. I think it's far to early to judge Heikki's performance.

[giganten]

What the heck is Briatore doing bad mouthing (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38724) Kovalainen? It sounds like a little tantrum from Flav. Fisi has done well at Melburne before and then sucked for the rest of the season. He'll probably fade away like he did last year. I think it's far to early to judge Heikki's performance.

I agree with you.

[AlBDamned]

Keep up the good work Lewis, you are a fantastic driver and I hope all this over-reaction by the media does not affect you.

Seriously though, which bit is an overreaction? Hamilton's in a great car, but you can have a great car and not do as well he did.

When someone comes along and puts in a performance like that, people take notice. That's not overreaction, that's simply reaction.

[AlBDamned]

What the heck is Briatore doing bad mouthing (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38724) Kovalainen? It sounds like a little tantrum from Flav. Fisi has done well at Melburne before and then sucked for the rest of the season. He'll probably fade away like he did last year. I think it's far to early to judge Heikki's performance.

Shouldn't come as any surprise though, it was a bad race for Kovalainen and Briatore doesn't exactly have a reputation as a conservative when it comes to expressing his opinion.

[R.Youden]

Seriously though, which bit is an overreaction? Hamilton's in a great car, but you can have a great car and not do as well he did.

When someone comes along and puts in a performance like that, people take notice. That's not overreaction, that's simply reaction.

I guess we will have to disagree on this one!

I was thinking about this again last night. He has been groomed for this role for 11 years or something and he has had the same amount of time in that car as Alosno. Also if you consider that the best two cars where the Ferrari and Mclarens there was a small race between the 4 of them. With Massa starting last he wasn't involved in the 'mini race' which Hamilton finished last in.

Plus if you look at Rosberg last year, he came in as GP2 champion, had a great result in Bahrain where he set the fastest lap of the race in a non-competative car. GP2 is such a competitive series that it is just as good as a season with a back-marker team.

[AlBDamned]

I guess we will have to disagree on this one!

I was thinking about this again last night. He has been groomed for this role for 11 years or something and he has had the same amount of time in that car as Alosno. Also if you consider that the best two cars where the Ferrari and Mclarens there was a small race between the 4 of them. With Massa starting last he wasn't involved in the 'mini race' which Hamilton finished last in.


I do see where you're coming from and agree with you in the sense that Hamilton has been groomed since he was 10 (there was a great featurette on him after the GP yesterday) and he's had a lot of experience in the car and it seems to be a damn good car and in the mini race at the top he came last. That's all fair enough.

I just think it's a bit unfair to say he's been overhyped and doesn't deserve all the coverage he got. The majority of F1 drivers start when they're the age he did, lots of drivers have gone to quick teams to start with, but few have come in with a debut drive like that.

It's too early to say whether he can last at that pace for the whole of his first season, but I really don't think you could ask more of him in a first race and as such it was thoroughly refreshing to see.

If he does continue to drive and place like that all season, then I'd be happy for him to continue to get as much coverage as he has.

He seems like a decent guy as well. Kimi might be lightening quick but i really cannot stand his public persona, or his seriously lacking sportsmanship for that matter.

[R.Youden]

I just think it's a bit unfair to say he's been overhyped and doesn't deserve all the coverage he got. The majority of F1 drivers start when they're the age he did, lots of drivers have gone to quick teams to start with, but few have come in with a debut drive like that.

I think we have got cross-wired here. I am not saying that he doesn't deserve all the attention he is getting. What I am saying is that it is how the attention is being portrayed.

I don't know if you watch the ITV coverage but the one thing I can't stand is James Allen. He is the biggest brown noser in the world! I respect Martin Brundle for his knowledge of F1 and when he gave his "driver of the day" to Rosberg (I think) I was glad that someone saw through the hype and realised that there are 21 other guys on the grid who are trying to compete at the same level.

Yes he did well, yes he will win races, yes he probably will win world championships, but that is all in the future.

To his credit he competed very well against Alonso, but there where races that Fissi had the better of Alonso in previous years but that doesn't make Fissi the next big thing. Drivers often have a good first few races and die down. Jean Alesi springs to mind, as does Nico Rosberg.

[R.Youden]

If pictures could tell 1000 words!

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6664/xpb0wmhfy80i4l6680q72rcht9.jpg

[heehee]

If pictures could tell 1000 words!

[IM G]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6664/xpb0wmhfy80i4l6680q72rcht9.jpg[/I MG]

:D

I was really hoping Hamilton would beat Alsonso, but he got lucky, AGAIN. :rolleyes:

[Father Jack]

Lewis rules ......... OK :)

FJ

[Markleshark]

I hate British F1 drivers. They are always over rated, over hyped and under performers. LH had a good race, a good debut and I cant take that away from the lad, but all of a sudden he's the next world champion, the best driver the world has even seen and he drove better than Kimi yesterday. (WTF?)

I've seen all this hype somewhere before, hmmmm, Jenson Button I think the lad was called. Aint seen anything of him for a while though. :rolleyes:

[SpookTheHamster]

I hate British F1 drivers. They are always over rated, over hyped and under performers. LH had a good race, a good debut and I cant take that away from the lad, but all of a sudden he's the next world champion, the best driver the world has even seen and he drove better than Kimi yesterday. (WTF?)

I've seen all this hype somewhere before, hmmmm, Jenson Button I think the lad was called. Aint seen anything of him for a while though. :rolleyes:

I don't recall Button finishing 3rd in his first year, let alone first race.

I agree that the media attention is irritating and over the top, but if you watched him in GP2 you have to admit that Hamilton is an amazing driver.

With regards to British drivers being overhyped, every country hypes it's own drivers. Even Sato gets hyped in Japan.

[R.Youden]

I've seen all this hype somewhere before, hmmmm, Jenson Button I think the lad was called. Aint seen anything of him for a while though. :rolleyes:

Apart from the highest point scorer from the final 1/3 of last season....

I don't think it is the drivers fault. As usual I think the press have a lot to answer for. We need a truly great driver to come out of the UK soon.

If we look at the past British F1 champions we have:

Damon Hill - 1996 - Nothing special, good solid smooth driver. Right place, right time. Similar to Jenson Button really

Nigel Mansell - 1992 - Again, nothing special. He had great fight and a never say die attitude but didn't get anything out of a car unless it was really quick.

James Hunt - 1976 - Only won because Lauda tried to cook himself!


Then we get into the truly great British Drivers:

Jackie Stewart
Jimmy Clark
Graham Hill
John Surtees
Mike Hawthorn

As the country which is the home of Formula One we need a new great driver and the press just jump at anything that moves on 4 wheels and can be proclaimed as British.

That is not the drivers fault.

[SpookTheHamster]

If the British public are so desperate for success, why don't the media just run a few articles about how pretty much all of the teams are based in or conduct a lot of work in the UK, no matter where they claim to be from?

[smueboy]

I hate British F1 drivers. They are always over rated, over hyped and under performers. LH had a good race, a good debut and I cant take that away from the lad, but all of a sudden he's the next world champion, the best driver the world has even seen and he drove better than Kimi yesterday. (WTF?)

I've seen all this hype somewhere before, hmmmm, Jenson Button I think the lad was called. Aint seen anything of him for a while though. :rolleyes:

Jensen who? :p
Yeah, LH certainly impressed everyone coming out and driving so well. Personally, i had heard/read nothing on him, so i was surprised to see him performing so well. That said, it's only one race so the press can say whatever they want but i won't be sold on him until he keeps it up for half a dozen races.

I'm glad Kimi did so well (boring though it made the race). I've always liked him, but hated Ferrari, so i have no allegiance yet this season. Pretty unimpressed by Renault so far.

[heehee]

It must have been scary. :eek:

[iGav]

I want to know that the pole really goes to the fastest driver of the day. In my opinion race strategies belong to the racing day and not to the qualifications.

Yup. :)

[R.Youden]

It couldn't possibly be a new season without big Ron having a go at Ferrari.

He is now saying that the floor on the Ferrari is designed to lower at high speed and therefore provides greater top speed. This would therefore be a movable aerodynamic structure and illegal (in the same way that Rensult's mass damper was an aerodynamic piece!).

And apparently Kimi spun at the end of the race but ITV didn't bother to show it because they where on an advert break!

And I am really started to get pissed off with James Allen. From now on I will mute the TV and listen to Radio Five for coverage. That bloke is almost worse than Mark Blundell! What are ITV thinking of.

Rant for the day over.

[iGav]

He is now saying that the floor on the Ferrari is designed to lower at high speed and therefore provides greater top speed. This would therefore be a movable aerodynamic structure and illegal (in the same way that Rensult's mass damper was an aerodynamic piece!).

And not just Ferrari apparently.

It was the same at the start of last season... with allegations that Ferrari had a flexible undertray that could stall the airflow, thus increasing top speed.

As for ITV. :rolleyes: I've still never forgiven them for Imola '05. :mad:

[SpookTheHamster]

And I am really started to get pissed off with James Allen. From now on I will mute the TV and listen to Radio Five for coverage. That bloke is almost worse than Mark Blundell! What are ITV thinking of.

ALMOST worse?! James Allen is the biggest fool on television.

ITV should hire a new team, the Eurosport teams are my favourite (especially the MotoGP duo), if only F1 was on Eurosport as well.

[mfacey]

I always enjoy the commentary of the dude that does the SBK and MotoGP on BBC. The guy with the sort of low, raspy voice. He is especially good when there's plenty of action. Anybody know his name?

Nothing beat Murray though! :D

I miss the good ol' days when F1 was still on the Beeb!

[giganten]

It must have been scary. :eek:

Yeah.:eek:

[®îçhå®?]

The best commentators (not F1 but hey) are the BBC rugby ones. It is hilarious as they always disagree forcefully at least one a game

[iGav]

I miss the good ol' days when F1 was still on the Beeb!

I don't know... the BBC frequently wouldn't show races live, and often wouldn't even show qualifying.

That and the commentating was often sub-par because the BBC didn't always send Walker and Hunt to the actual races so they'd only commentate on what was actually happening on the screen of the TV in some closet in BBC Television Centre that they were watching like the rest of us. :rolleyes: :p

The most irritating thing about ITV's coverage (except the Twat Allen) is their insistance on commercial breaks. I don't see the same on their football coverage for example. And considering F1 is nothing but advertisements, you know... really do we need anymore?

Or at the very least, they should be able to continue to broadcast the race in a small box picture-in-picture whilst the ad's are on, and stipulate this as a condition to advertisers.