Wall Street Journal

[Evangelion]

A few Americans???

Yes, few Americans. CDMA might be the most popular tech in USA, but fact remains that if you look at worlwide numbers, CDMA is tiny. GSM is about an order of magnitude more popular than CDMA is. There were 1 billion GSM-users in 2004, there are even more today. How many CDMA-users are there?

[-hh]

A few Americans??? If I am not mistaken Sprint and Verizon have a HUGE share of the market in the US. Having both a CDMA and a GSM version of the phone would mean more sale and more $$ for Apple.

First off, at 300 million people, the USA is only 20% of the world's population.

Next, we're not one of the countries with the highest "cellphones per capita". In fact, we're 57th (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_tel_mob_cel_percap-telephones-mobile-cellular-per-capita) (651 per 1000).

So while CDMA vs GSM might be a big deal for us, its really splitting in two an already non-huge marketplace...very roughly speaking, you're looking at maybe 100 million CDMA phones in the world.

Which suggests that something like an iPhone may actually have a bigger influence on the market, especially when you consider all of the BS moves the cell companies have already done to try to maximize their profits from their consumers - - ie, locked sets, crippled features, etc.

There's probably a growing segnment of the consumers of cellpohones who are getting fed up with the provider's nonsense.

Personally, I'm tired of my Verizon CDMA not working on vacation outside of the USA. And my wife is tired of paying for incoming SPAM text messages coming from Croatia. I'm still using an ancient Digital/Analog "Startac" which Verizon gets pinged by the Feds because they're supposd to get rid of Analog users to free up the old Analog spectrum, yet Verizon has the audacity to try to saddle me with another contract if I want to help them out as much as me by a low cost phone change. So much for intelligent, consumer-friendly business practices...companies like this deserve to go out of business.


Our current contracts end in May. Change is guarenteed. If I can't get an unlocked GSM, I'll get rid of my subsription based cellphone entirely.


-hh

[palhen]

First off, at 300 million people, the USA is only 20% of the world's population.
-hh

Please recalculate. Hint; 300 millions / 6 billions = 5 %

Henrik

[mikeh123]

There were 1 billion GSM-users in 2004, there are even more today. How many CDMA-users are there?

There are over 2 billion now :)

Thats over 80% of the global market population

[Machead III]

hard to say - in a couple of months, when the phone will be available in Europe, you might get an unlocked iPhone for that money. I doubt there'll be more than one version of each model, but I'm still hoping there's going to be a "pro" model with a PDA part.

Europe and Asia are the largest phone markets in the world, and dwarf that of the United States. They are also at the cutting edge of the industry in terms of the adoption of new technologies.

The majority of all major handsets are released in Europe and Asia first, for this reason, and the US is considered a fairly minor market to which they will only migrate if they are successful elsewhere.

The iPhone will certainly launch in the US, but if it isn't simulateneously launched in the EU and Asia, then Jobs will just reveal how little he knows about the industry.

[emotion]

I don't know why you lot keep calling it the "iPhone".

[Philsy]

I don't know why you lot keep calling it the "iPhone".

Because it's a useful label in the absence of an official name...

[Stella]

I don't know why you lot keep calling it the "iPhone".


Because its something will can identify with until Apple reveal the correct name. Its always been called the iPhone ( even though the final product will not be ) in most previous rumours.

Calling it the Apple mobile phone / Apple Cell phone takes longer to type.

'MacPhone' is just plain dumb - gives the impression of a Mac Only Phone.

[emotion]

Just call it the 'apple phone'?

It'll be called the iPod Phone anyway :D

[cynerjist]

i love europe. the people are sexy and the cell phones just work. i think they should get everything the U.S. gets either at release or within a month. that really is in apple's and the consumers' best interests.

the phone will do apple much better attached to the ear of well-dressed european than a fat nerd with a starbucks.

[asrai]

If cingular really is their choice, then all my hopes were for nothing, and I'll cry myself to sleep tomorrow night. Cingular is the worst service in town where I live.

Exactly !!! :(

[uNext]

All i want is iTv and wireless n airport express.

My palm 680 serves me well.

[Stella]

i love europe. the people are sexy and the cell phones just work. i think they should get everything the U.S. gets either at release or within a month. that really is in apple's and the consumers' best interests.

the phone will do apple much better attached to the ear of well-dressed european than a fat nerd with a starbucks.

Be careful, you'll be accused of being 'un-american'!!
:p

[Zadillo]

All i want is iTv and wireless n airport express.

My palm 680 serves me well.

I own a Treo 650 myself. As much as I like the Treo, what kills me is that the Palm OS as we know it is dead and stagnant, and the Palm OS-based Treos are running the same old hacked up Palm OS 5 that hasn't seen any REAL improvements in quite a while.

It's one reason I'd love to see Apple eventually get into the smartphone market.

-Zadillo

[mi5moav]

talki and the scoot those are just stupid names, I liked the newton better. Though I thought for a while ipod phone would work, if it is gonna make it in the business world then now way. LG has a great push with the chocolate and the enV, have a feeling this is what Apples phones will be. One for the kids another for the rest.

[Eduardo1971]

A summary of the Wall Street Journal article.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9007561&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1

[mdriftmeyer]

i love europe. the people are sexy and the cell phones just work. i think they should get everything the U.S. gets either at release or within a month. that really is in apple's and the consumers' best interests.

the phone will do apple much better attached to the ear of well-dressed european than a fat nerd with a starbucks.

You're definitely just being honest about the obesity levels in the US. However, the US market is larger than Europe and should get the technology first.

To that end, the phone should be unlocked and accessible to all providers. The consumer should be the one to choose.

[Sirin]

iChat Mobile :)

[brepublican]

!!!!

Apple release a product that the states will have to wait for - to be unavailable?

Hell will freeze over first!

( iTunes for Windows was just a slight thawing )

I dont think it [Hell] can freeze any more than it has this past year with the switch from PPC to Intel, which NO ONE ever thought possible :p

But 2 more hours and we shall see :D

[peharri]

When deciding which standard to support, it doesn't really matter if more than half of Americans today are on non-GSM networks. It matters whether 99% of Americans today can use GSM networks.

The vast majority of Americans have access to at least one GSM network, I'd say 90-95% have at least two rival GSM operators in their area. That is, it may be a matter of cancelling your Sprint PCS or Verizon contract and getting a T-Mobile or Cingular one instead, but you can do it. And yes, I'm sure someone will raise the point that it's expensive to "get out" of a contract, but T-Mobile actually buys people out of their contracts anyway, and most people do not replace their phones until near to the end of their contracts.

In other words, yes, Apple can just make this an unlocked GSM phone.

And it's in their best interests to do so, as long as the operators of the "mainstream" alternative insist on requiring the subscriber get permission to connect an arbitrary but compatible phone to their networks. When the IS-95/IS-2000 operators adopt R-UIM, then yeah, I see value in Apple selling a phone for those standards. But for now, switching someone over to an Apple GSM or UMTS phone is going to be infinitely easier, and require far less handholding and involvement of third parties, than switching someone over to a CDMA2000 phone.

Sorry Verizon. This is something you can change, but you're too much of a bunch of control freaks to be willing to think that way.

Sorry Verizon subscribers, you backed the wrong horse. At least be glad competition is strong enough that rivals will buy you out of your contract.

The only bad thing about GSM is that Cingular is the most widespread operator in the US, and they're not doing a great job. With the release of AWS spectrum, I'm expecting that to change, as a significant amount of additional capacity can be added, and competition nationwide from T-Mobile will also make a major difference.

[mattster16]

They could go pre-paid and sell air-time and/or data packages through the iTunes store.

ps: I miss Minnesota, how's the weather this winter?

That's another idea, I'm not sure if Apple would go with a pay-as-you-go/prepaid phone. At least from what I observe they seem to have a reputation of being cheap/bad service/for people who can't afford real phone service (although I don't believe any of this is actually true). This is starting to change though.

This is the most mild winter I've had in my life. I'm in Minneapolis alot as well as farther north in Duluth and neither places have snow on the ground (normally there are several feet by this time) and the temps have been really warm. Just about every bit of snow on the ski hills had to be manmade this year. :eek: Probably not the MN you remember.

[uncle_sam_ie]

You're definitely just being honest about the obesity levels in the US. However, the US market is larger than Europe and should get the technology first.

To that end, the phone should be unlocked and accessible to all providers. The consumer should be the one to choose.
Do you have facts to back that statement up? Because, I bet you'll find Europe to be a bigger market.

[moesker007]

That's another idea, I'm not sure if Apple would go with a pay-as-you-go/prepaid phone. At least from what I observe they seem to have a reputation of being cheap/bad service/for people who can't afford real phone service (although I don't believe any of this is actually true). This is starting to change though.

This is the most mild winter I've had in my life. I'm in Minneapolis alot as well as farther north in Duluth and neither places have snow on the ground (normally there are several feet by this time) and the temps have been really warm. Just about every bit of snow on the ski hills had to be manmade this year. :eek: Probably not the MN you remember.

I know, this winter has prety much been nothing. Although it is kind of nice, it's definately not stupposed to be like this! I haven't even went skiing or snowboarding yet simply because man made snow hurts! lol but ya i am crossing every thing crosable on my body waiting for the Apple branded celluar device to be release, i really really hope it will be :D

[bowens]

Cingular would actually be ok with me. I have Nextel now and it has been good, but lately has started going down hill. I think there's something wrong with the tower here. With Cingular I could get a discount by bundling it with my Bellsouth service. Right now I have a 5 year old Nextel phone, so I need to upgrade it. I'm in the country so some of the services like T-Mobile don't work here.

[pkis]

This is the most mild winter I've had in my life. I'm in Minneapolis alot as well as farther north in Duluth and neither places have snow on the ground (normally there are several feet by this time) and the temps have been really warm. Just about every bit of snow on the ski hills had to be manmade this year. :eek: Probably not the MN you remember.

No, not exactly :-) I was there as a foreign exchange student in 95/96 (went to MCW High in Sherburn, down in South Central)- man it was cold that winter! But the weather is crazy all over the world - we had almost 60 degrees F today - that's extremely abnormal for this season.

[pkis]

You're definitely just being honest about the obesity levels in the US. However, the US market is larger than Europe and should get the technology first.

see, that's were you're wrong - many citizens, politicians and businesses in the US haven't realized that Europe has long passed the US in terms of market size. This isn't surprising considering the fact that the EU has a population of 456 million against 300 million in the US - and Europe doesn't only consist of the EU.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-6028486.html

That article only talks about the PC market, but the same is true for mobile phones and many other areas.
That is exactly why nobody over here understands that Apple and some other companies treat Europe as a second-hand market.
I really like the US, especially its open-mindedness in many areas - but you guys should stop pretending to be the old bull when it comes to the economy!

[Philsy]

see, that's were you're wrong - many citizens, politicians and businesses in the US haven't realized that Europe has long passed the US in terms of market size. This isn't surprising considering the fact, that the EU has a population of 456 million against 300 million in the US - and Europe doesn't only consist of the EU.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-6028486.html

That article only talks about the PC market, but the same is true for mobile phones and many other areas.
That is exactly why nobody over here understands, why Apple and some other companies treat Europe as a second-hand market.

Furthermore, more people in Europe use mobile phones. In the UK, for instance, there are more phones than people (because some people like to have more than one - one for personal, one for business etc.

[timber]

That's another idea, I'm not sure if Apple would go with a pay-as-you-go/prepaid phone. At least from what I observe they seem to have a reputation of being cheap/bad service/for people who can't afford real phone service (although I don't believe any of this is actually true). This is starting to change though.

That's funny. Here in Europe (more precisely on the small rectagle on the west of Spain) almost everyone uses prepaid phones (mostly in ATM machines)

Well I just hope they launch a good unlocked GSM phone. A by good I mean the same relation between the iPod and Creative players. They may have more functions than the iPod but it just works better.

[mikeh123]

Well there you have it - The Iphone is here.

A phone and smart phone all in one. Not many say that coming :)

I'm pretty impressed I must say

[emotion]

Well there you have it - The Iphone is here.

A phone and smart phone all in one. Not many say that coming :)

I'm pretty impressed I must say


The return of the Newton. Well in my attempt at not being disappointed I'd played down what I thought they'd launch. hhahaha and the name too iPhone. I bet linksys aren't chuffed..

Now how to get one....

[SeaFox]

The return of the Newton. Well in my attempt at not being disappointed I'd played down what I thought they'd launch. hhahaha and the name too iPhone. I bet linksys aren't chuffed..

Now how to get one....

So are they actually going to call it the iPhone? How can they do that???
They must have some arrangement with Cisco, but the products are so similar I don't believe Cisco would arrange that.

[emotion]

So are they actually going to call it the iPhone? How can they do that???
They must have some arrangement with Cisco, but the products are so similar I don't believe Cisco would arrange that.

I've been getting stroppy with people still calling it iphone after the linksys one came out. haha. I was wrong.

It's linksys that have stolen the apple style naming though in fairness.

[emotion]

You know what? I'd rather have a Zune. Who's with me?

:D :D :D :D :D

[SeaFox]

I've been getting stroppy with people still calling it iphone after the linksys one came out. haha. I was wrong.

It's linksys that have stolen the apple style naming though in fairness.

If the iPhone is the

Widescreen iPod
Apple Phone
Internet Communicator

all in one, does that mean it will have 80GB of storage?

I'm impressed with the iPhone, but slightly disappointed too. I was hoping for two different designs, one less expensive one with just phone and music capabilities, and one more like what we're seeing here. As soon as they talked about the full screen touch interface, I knew this one was going to be out of the budget I was hoping for.

[xsedrinam]

You know what? I'd rather have a Zune. Who's with me?

:D :D :D :D :D
Maybe less than were an hour ago. :p

[SeaFox]

Hey, I was watching the updates and Google and Yahoo's execs are coming up and I was just thinking, is it just me, or is the iPhone what Origami was supposed to be?

[poppe]

I understand why they went with GSM and all just sucks... I think a lot of users on the CDMA side would have killed for that. I mean if you are on sprint you know what I am talking about. Sprint never gets amazing or advanced phones. We just got the razr... CDMA users are dying for a phone manufacture that can deliver quality phones... Oh well guess my PPC-6700 will be staying with me...

Oh look I've got 65818 member ship. don't know what that means but thats pretty sweet!

[SeaFox]

Oh look I've got 65818 member ship. don't know what that means but thats pretty sweet!

You'll only have it for about 5 posts, then you'll move up to the next level.

[peharri]

I understand why they went with GSM and all just sucks... I think a lot of users on the CDMA side would have killed for that. I mean if you are on sprint you know what I am talking about. Sprint never gets amazing or advanced phones. We just got the razr... CDMA users are dying for a phone manufacture that can deliver quality phones... Oh well guess my PPC-6700 will be staying with me...

Oh look I've got 65818 member ship. don't know what that means but thats pretty sweet!

Stop just posting about it here.

Email Sprint. Tell them that choice is important to you. Tell them that you insist they support R-UIMs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-UIM) (the IS-95/IS-2000 equivalent of SIM cards) as soon as possible.

As long as Sprint makes it hard for people to choose their own handware, it'll always be in the phone manufacturer's interests to only make phones that are approved by Sprint. Same for Verizon. There could be a market for unlocked CDMA2000 phones in the US, but it's not going to happen until the CDMA2000 operators open up.

[poppe]

Stop just posting about it here.

Email Sprint. Tell them that choice is important to you. Tell them that you insist they support R-UIMs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-UIM) (the IS-95/IS-2000 equivalent of SIM cards) as soon as possible.

As long as Sprint makes it hard for people to choose their own handware, it'll always be in the phone manufacturer's interests to only make phones that are approved by Sprint. Same for Verizon. There could be a market for unlocked CDMA2000 phones in the US, but it's not going to happen until the CDMA2000 operators open up.

Damn cingular exclusive. Well Macworld was a bore for me today... hope one more thing is something I can burn money on yet...

Thanks for the link. I'll do that.

[SeaFox]

Well, this can't be it. Especially for the iPod. People want a widescreen iPod, and while the iPhone has one, it only has the storage space of a Nano. The whole idea of wanting a widescreen iPod was for watching widescreen movies on. :rolleyes:

[emotion]

The catch...not enough storage for price, and not expandable.

Price is a little high and it's not available for a long time.

[SeaFox]

The catch...not enough storage for price, and not expandable.

Price is a little high and it's not available for a long time.

Multi-year exclusive agreement with Cingular. So I wont be able to buy it outside of Cingular for years, not months?

It will be sold through Apple and Cingular stores, so if I buy at an Apple store, I still have to get a contract? It will be available contract-free (for more) right?

It appears the keynote is ending. Not ONE WORD about Macs or Leopard.

[mikeh123]

I was thinking 8GB be lucky if more

It is 8GB and pretty pricey but damn, ipod, phone, internet - everything I really wanted in a phone with lovely controls and OS basis.

Available June for US and Europe 4th Quarter so not out of line with most expectations.

Just really would take one tomorrow if they were out. 9 months a long wait :)

I think this is really one of the best apple products I have seen. Phones have been at it for SO long and Apples' first attempt really does look a fantastic effort.

[mikeh123]

note - iPhone prices include a 2 year contract - FYI

Damn if thats the case then the phone is a bargain. Yes even a basic contract would cost a few hundred over two years so looks good for me.

I dont need more than 4 - 6gb (I know I'm lucky)

In the future this will expand but I am still very impressed initially.

[Zadillo]

Damn if thats the case then the phone is a bargain. Yes even a basic contract would cost a few hundred over two years so looks good for me.

I dont need more than 4 - 6gb (I know I'm lucky)

In the future this will expand but I am still very impressed initially.

That doesn't mean it includes 2 years of service ("includes" was probably the wrong word to be used above); it means that you get that price by agreeing to a 2-year contract. Not to say that this might not change.

[Ugg]

I understand why they went with GSM and all just sucks... I think a lot of users on the CDMA side would have killed for that. I mean if you are on sprint you know what I am talking about. Sprint never gets amazing or advanced phones. We just got the razr... CDMA users are dying for a phone manufacture that can deliver quality phones...

Most of the world uses GSM, why aim for only the US market?

[Multimedia]

"Days away" did not read like 180 Days Away did it? :rolleyes: :eek:

Only 3300 Hours 'til June 1st according to John Mayer at the end of the SteveNote. It's really more like 4300 Hours John.