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adam1185
Jan 8, 2007, 08:13 PM
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/wsj-reports-apple-and-cingular-launching-cellphone/

The WSJ just published a story implying the phone could be launched tomorrow. Does anyone have access to the full article here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116830347326670832.html?mod=djemalert



ptogel
Jan 8, 2007, 08:14 PM
Wall Street Journal reports on January 8, 2007 8:42 p.m.:

Apple, Cingular Set to Team Up on Cellphone
Cingular Wireless is expected to provide wireless service for a new Apple Computer Inc. cellphone, people familiar with the situation say. The launch of the new phone and service is expected to be announced as early as Tuesday, these people say.

brendanryder
Jan 8, 2007, 08:18 PM
o no!!!!
not cingular
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Creibold
Jan 8, 2007, 08:23 PM
If cingular really is their choice, then all my hopes were for nothing, and I'll cry myself to sleep tomorrow night. Cingular is the worst service in town where I live.

PODshady
Jan 8, 2007, 08:23 PM
my credit card is ready and waiting to order an iPhone.... I really really hope this is true

mi5moav
Jan 8, 2007, 08:28 PM
I really hoped it would be with Deutche Telecom/T-mobile but I guess I'll just run out and pay full price for the phone, no biggie and then pop in my t-mobile SIM... of course I realy, really hope Apple didn't lock the phone!!!!!!!

savanahrose
Jan 8, 2007, 08:28 PM
i have had different cell phone companies through the years and I seem to always go back to Cingular. I can't wait for this verizon contract to end. I can't seem to get a signal at my house with anything else. Cingular has had the strongest signal by far.

I talked with verizon and they said that I live right next to their tower. yeah right.

SMM
Jan 8, 2007, 08:29 PM
We all have our wish list, and a phone is on the bottom of mine. Still, I support anything which provides a revenue stream. I have been waiting patiently for the FCP 6 upgrade. It has been a long time since Apple has upgraded the video apps. It would really be nice to see them now.

twoodcc
Jan 8, 2007, 08:29 PM
well i sure hope it's true. i use Cingular.

bearbo
Jan 8, 2007, 08:34 PM
well i sure hope it's true. i use Cingular.

god i hope the phone isn't too expensive... i use Cingular and my razr's battery is dying, and i dont like the phone very much... i'm hoping for a phone! (but i might have to wait for another half yr for the contract to end :S)

MonkeyClaw
Jan 8, 2007, 08:36 PM
If its with Cingular, I might drown myself in the kitchen sink. Might...

bearbo
Jan 8, 2007, 08:40 PM
i didn't know you can just start a tread in MacRumors.com News Discussion?

benthewraith
Jan 8, 2007, 08:44 PM
i didn't know you can just start a tread in MacRumors.com News Discussion?

Yup. You can apparently. They just don't show up on the Macrumors site. If you look, there's a post new topic button right there. :P

Anyways, it is only expected to be with Cingular for a few months (6?) and then go to other networks. Sprint of course will be the last one to get it, (and seeing as Final Cut Express is my birthday present), this would make for a welcoming present for when it finally comes to Sprint, assuming it does at all.

bearbo
Jan 8, 2007, 08:48 PM
Yup. You can apparently. They just don't show up on the Macrumors site. If you look, there's a post new topic button right there. :P


apparently it does... it's so confusing as it shows up in forum spy as it's from MacRumors.com News Discussion... aka more "real" rumors.

i thought only admins can post here:rolleyes:

Annndy!
Jan 8, 2007, 08:59 PM
*sigh* Figures. If this is true, I'll be kicking myself. I switched to T-Mobile from Cingular a few months ago so I could buy a Sidekick 3. I'm very happy with my SK, but I have a feeling I'd be even happier with this new Apple Phone if and when it comes out. Here's hoping Apple made the smart choice and allowed it to be unlockable.

On a side note, I thought Apple and Cingular had been drifting apart from one another in recent months?

savanahrose
Jan 8, 2007, 09:06 PM
god i hope the phone isn't too expensive... i use Cingular and my razr's battery is dying, and i dont like the phone very much... i'm hoping for a phone! (but i might have to wait for another half yr for the contract to end :S)


Contact Cingular when the phone comes out. You can upgrade at a certain point in your contract. But that also means a new contract.

benthewraith
Jan 8, 2007, 09:07 PM
apparently it does... it's so confusing as it shows up in forum spy as it's from MacRumors.com News Discussion... aka more "real" rumors.

i thought only admins can post here:rolleyes:

Well, technically it is a real rumor as it's been penned by the Wall Street Journal. ;)

SactoGuy18
Jan 8, 2007, 09:16 PM
Simple: Cingular recently sold a cellphone that had iTunes access. And unlike T-Mobile, Cingular's GSM coverage area is huge across the USA.

By the way, why is the Apple-branded cellphone run off the GSM system? Simple: the vast majority of the world's digital cellphones (something like 2 billion of them!) use GSM, which means a huge market for Apple's cellphone in most of the world.

mjstew33
Jan 8, 2007, 09:16 PM
I hate verizon. :(

Me1000
Jan 8, 2007, 09:18 PM
I Wish apple would just let you pick your own provider, yeah i know its hard with all that GSM and CDMA crap. but it would be awsome!

as long as we friggin see one!!!!!!!!!!!

Im happy!

longofest
Jan 8, 2007, 09:18 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In what may be the highest-profile claim to date, the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116830347326670832.html) (paid subscription required) is chiming in that Apple will be announcing their cellphone "as early as Tuesday." The phone reportedly would reside on Cingular's network.

Cingular in November announced a mobile music service (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/11/20061102152115.shtml) based upon Microsoft's WMA format and a subscription model. It is presently unclear how this service would interoperate, if at all, with Apple's rumored phone.

The Wall Street Journal has been extremely reliable in the past, having been the first news outlet to predict Apple's switch to Intel chips (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/05/20050523070726.shtml).

aussie_geek
Jan 8, 2007, 09:19 PM
Fair enough.

lets just hope it isn't just a phone - i want pda / internet features as well.

aussie_geek

p0intblank
Jan 8, 2007, 09:19 PM
Yup, tomorrow's the day. :)

thegoldenmackid
Jan 8, 2007, 09:22 PM
not cingular:mad: :mad:

JackAxe
Jan 8, 2007, 09:22 PM
Just give me an ulocked phone please. :)

I use T-Mobile.

<]=)

MattyMac
Jan 8, 2007, 09:22 PM
YES! YES! YES!

Will I be able to sleep tonight?!?!?!?!

longofest
Jan 8, 2007, 09:24 PM
By the way, why is the Apple-branded cellphone run off the GSM system? Simple: the vast majority of the world's digital cellphones (something like 2 billion of them!) use GSM, which means a huge market for Apple's cellphone in most of the world.

plus, Apple has been known to been courting GSM/EDGE folks. http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060120030030.shtml

Annndy!
Jan 8, 2007, 09:25 PM
I can't imagine Apple would risk losing so many potential customers by making it locked. If so, well...bring on the ultra-portable MBP? :rolleyes: Looks like this could be a fairly disappointing one for me.

amberashby
Jan 8, 2007, 09:27 PM
Anyone have the link to the full article????

Annndy!
Jan 8, 2007, 09:28 PM
Anyone have the link to the full article????

I think the article is accessible by paid subscribers only.

iris_failsafe
Jan 8, 2007, 09:28 PM
My home country only has GSM operators (there was a CDMA but a european company bought them and the switch to GSM...

I just hope the prices are not too high I am doing my masters degree and have a very tight budget :(

psychometry
Jan 8, 2007, 09:29 PM
This IS a restricted forum. If you click on New Topic, it says
You might be trying to post in a restricted forum. Users can't create new threads in MacRumors News Discussion forum or other "official" forums. Please find the appropriate forum for your topic and post there. Marketplace and Political forums have a minimum post requirement.
If a topic becomes newsworthy, it's moved to this forum from whichever one it was originally posted in.

freeny
Jan 8, 2007, 09:29 PM
As early as Tuesday? Are these guys a bunch of wizards?!

Of course it COULD be as early as Tuesday!

This also means it COULD be as late as next year!:rolleyes:

I will say as an absolute fact, the true iPod video could be released as early as Tuesday. And
ill eat my own poo if its not true!

Without the whole story this is useless....:confused:

chuckles:)
Jan 8, 2007, 09:29 PM
Cingular in the states means Rogers in Canada, which is very good news.

color guy
Jan 8, 2007, 09:29 PM
cingular sucks cingular sucks singular sucks cingular sucks cingular sucks
crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks










did i mention that i don't care for cingular? the absolute worst cell company
on earth (and i've tried all of the US carriers)

Eduardo1971
Jan 8, 2007, 09:30 PM
i have had different cell phone companies through the years and I seem to always go back to Cingular. I can't wait for this verizon contract to end. I can't seem to get a signal at my house with anything else. Cingular has had the strongest signal by far.

I talked with verizon and they said that I live right next to their tower. yeah right.


I don't see what all the whining is about. Here in Los Angeles, California; I've never had signal problems with Cingular. That and Cingular is one of the few mobile companies that do not cripple their mobile phone offerings. Granted, their customer service is really bad, but I rarely have to talk these clueless people.

jthrasher
Jan 8, 2007, 09:31 PM
Woooohooooo!!!!

Annndy!
Jan 8, 2007, 09:32 PM
cingular sucks cingular sucks singular sucks cingular sucks cingular sucks
crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks










did i mention that i don't care for cingular? the absolute worst cell company
on earth (and i've tried all of the US carriers)

Great. I kill enough brain cells daily without having to read this kind of stuff. Now I've got no hope. :rolleyes:

MeWhOeLsE
Jan 8, 2007, 09:32 PM
Ok. Of all the rumors this is the one I didn't want coming true.

One thing about phone compatibility though, europe is all GSM so it cirtainly won't be CDMA (or whatever it is) it'd be suicide in all but US markets!

Also, as a UKanien It seems unlikly that apple would lock the phone to cingular. It dosn't even exist over here! I think apple have the commercial might and appeal to get what they want, and an unlocked phone would be in their interests.

Just my 2 pence

savanahrose
Jan 8, 2007, 09:34 PM
I don't see what all the whining is about. Here in Los Angeles, California; I've never had signal problems with Cingular. That and Cingular is one of the few mobile companies that do not cripple their mobile phone offerings. Granted, their customer service is really bad, but I rarely have to talk these clueless people.

I wasn't complaining about Cingular, i was complaining about Verizon. Cingular is the only one that I can seem to use for signal strength. I just don't like Cingulars customer service, which is why I tried Verizon which customer service is better.

I would rather have my signal strength, I didn't know it was going to be less than Cingular.

spakle
Jan 8, 2007, 09:35 PM
I don't see what all the whining is about. Here in Los Angeles, California; I've never had signal problems with Cingular.Any service will be good in a big city. I have Sprint on the sero plan and only have to pay $17 a month for my plan. There is no way I'm ditching that plan if the phone isn't available for Sprint. Apple, be kind and spreed the love to cdma!

Zwhaler
Jan 8, 2007, 09:35 PM
Ahhh why Cingular? They suck! I want anything but...

MattyMac
Jan 8, 2007, 09:38 PM
cingular sucks cingular sucks singular sucks cingular sucks cingular sucks
crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks crooks









did i mention that i don't care for cingular? the absolute worst cell company
on earth (and i've tried all of the US carriers)

I actually really like cingular. No problems here.

music.addict411
Jan 8, 2007, 09:38 PM
My Opinion is that only one iPod like thing will be at MacWorld -

Either the next-gen iPod video or the iPhone,

Personally i would like to see a Motorola iPhone designed similiar to the 2gen iPod nano.

but we cant get what we want.

freeny
Jan 8, 2007, 09:39 PM
Ahhh why Cingular? They suck! I want anything but...

Dude, They ALL suck. You cant win no matter who they go with. Just take what they offer and try to live with it.;)

coal
Jan 8, 2007, 09:39 PM
I honestly don't see the motivation in a move by Apple to join with Cingular. Apple IS the brand, while Cingular has been trying for the last few years to become THE brand for mobile phone providers. Unfortunately, that desire doesn't translate into adequate customer service or competitive pricing so they remain just like any other mobile carrier.

Why would Apple do Cingular any favors by joining with them? It just doesn't make sense unless Cingular is paying them a huge sum of money for the courtesy.

Apple should just release the phone as a piece of unlocked GSM equipment that can be purchased directly from their site and used on any GSM provider worldwide. Simple and effective and doesn't limit Apple to a tired brand like Cingular (or even more tired, AT&T).

sartinsauce
Jan 8, 2007, 09:41 PM
I don't see what all the whining is about. Here in Los Angeles, California; I've never had signal problems with Cingular. That and Cingular is one of the few mobile companies that do not cripple their mobile phone offerings. Granted, their customer service is really bad, but I rarely have to talk these clueless people.

Yeah, I live in Los Angeles, too. I don't really have any problems. My phone doesn't work everywhere in my apartment, but after all, I do have a 400 sq ft Studio. I mean, you can't expect their network to cover all of that space!:p

It works when I'm in bed for fone secks, that's all that really matters.:cool:

I have had nothing but pleasant experiences with their customer service. Recently, I discovered that I had accidentally overpaid my bill by $488. When I requested a refund, they promptly sent me a check.

MacinDoc
Jan 8, 2007, 09:41 PM
Cingular in the states means Rogers in Canada, which is very good news.
Thanks, you just answered my question. Rogers has the best coverage in Canada, so this is indeed good news north of the 49th.

ibook30
Jan 8, 2007, 09:43 PM
Dude, They ALL suck. You cant win no matter who they go with. Just take what they offer and try to live with it.;)

I second that.

This WSJ piece is either gutsy or smart - only hours left to find out.

Mac Fly (film)
Jan 8, 2007, 09:43 PM
So much for Europe?

Cinch
Jan 8, 2007, 09:43 PM
Dude, They ALL suck. You cant win no matter who they go with. Just take what they offer and try to live with it.;)

a few former and current Googler as well as others are thinking of a new phone with open standard perhaps a new paradigm for cellular communication.

give the finger to the pimps we call our cellular carriers!

Cinch

MacinDoc
Jan 8, 2007, 09:45 PM
I honestly don't see the motivation in a move by Apple to join with Cingular. Apple IS the brand, while Cingular has been trying for the last few years to become THE brand for mobile phone providers. Unfortunately, that desire doesn't translate into adequate customer service or competitive pricing so they remain just like any other mobile carrier.

Why would Apple do Cingular any favors by joining with them? It just doesn't make sense unless Cingular is paying them a huge sum of money for the courtesy.

Apple should just release the phone as a piece of unlocked GSM equipment that can be purchased directly from their site and used on any GSM provider worldwide. Simple and effective and doesn't limit Apple to a tired brand like Cingular (or even more tired, AT&T).
The problem with this, at least in North America, is that you are largely competing with locked phones, which are heavily subsidized when you sign up for a contract. I can just hear it now - "Why should I buy the Apple phone for $400 when I can get X brand phone for $100?"

Thataboy
Jan 8, 2007, 09:49 PM
Don't you mean AT&T Wireless? :rolleyes:

God, Apple on AT&T... it just sounds dirty.

It's funny how people in these threads are all Verizon vs. Cingular. Um, Sprint is amazing and actually affordable -- I get plenty of minutes, unlimited EVDO and unlimited roaming on Verizon, and full insurance, plus hundreds of texts, for less than 50 INCLUSIVE of all taxes.

Can ANYONE on Verizon, Tmobile, AT&Tingular say the same? How many places are there that are dead on BOTH Sprint and Verizon? True nationwide coverage here :)

All that said, the US-only status of CDMA plus the virtual inability to sell an independent phone to be activated by CDMA providers = obvious GSM. :(

I still wish they'd go MVNO.

mac jones
Jan 8, 2007, 09:49 PM
This is not to hard to speculate on, as a matter of fact I would bet 10K that there will be a phone tomorrow.

There HAS to be.

It will probably be white flip phone with the glowing,pulsating apple. It will have 8GB flash, a video camera, wireless, TV ready, usb 2.0 charger/ sync, and will connect free to iTunes store (obviously).

It will be able to play while your on the phone so you can have background tunes (Muzak) and it may even have rudimentary video phone capability (let's really hope on this one).

No wonder Jobs is all worked up.

And i tell you, I'm sure as HELL not going to wait for Sprint to get around to piking up on this as there are pathetic.

Tomorrow i'm going to call Cingular even before it's announced (i'll wait to sign up though ; ) that's how sure I am of this.

andrewjnyc
Jan 8, 2007, 09:50 PM
If this happens, it'd be darn nice if Cingular offered a good price to existing subscribers who want it but aren't yet eligible for a phone upgrade. If nothing else, it'd help lock 'em in for the next few years...

levitynyc
Jan 8, 2007, 09:52 PM
its been said before, buT CINGULAR SUCKS!!!!!!!!

yg17
Jan 8, 2007, 09:52 PM
I hope it comes out in an unlocked version. My 2 years with Cingular were the worst 2 years of my cellular phone life. I switched to T-Mobile and haven't looked back, and absolutely will not switch to Suckgular ever again in my life, even if the only way to get this phone is through them.

color guy
Jan 8, 2007, 09:54 PM
Every single month cingular would try and sneak in some extra charges.

These charges would always be buried on page 3 or 4 of the bill.
After waiting on hold for 45 minutes, they would dissconect me. eventually
a rep would admit they were wrong, promise to adjust on the next bill.
The following month, guess what? that person no longer works here, let me transfer you. ooops.
I went through this charade every month for 2 years.

I've tried 'em all, So far verizon has been the best. I would love an apple
phone, but refuse to use cingular ever again. sorry steve.

coal
Jan 8, 2007, 09:55 PM
The problem with this, at least in North America, is that you are largely competing with locked phones, which are heavily subsidized when you sign up for a contract. I can just hear it now - "Why should I buy the Apple phone for $400 when I can get X brand phone for $100?"

That would hold true if this was anything like a nomral offering from Motorola/Samsung/Nokia, but this phone from Apple is thought to be much much more.

$400 for a phone? People have been paying about that much for years for just music players. You don't think they'll pay that much for a phone that plays music among many other things?

Also, I would think they'd want to latch onto some emerging technologies like T-Mobile's WiFi phone service. That would seem more appropriate for Apple then going with Cingular (or AT&T Wireless as the commercial on the television just informed me).

freeny
Jan 8, 2007, 09:56 PM
Every single month cingular would try and sneak in some extra charges.

These charges would always be buried on page 3 or 4 of the bill.
After waiting on hold for 45 minutes, they would dissconect me. eventually
a rep would admit they were wrong, promise to adjust on the next bill.
The following month, guess what? that person no longer works here, let me transfer you. ooops.
I went through this charade every month for 2 years.

Me, same scenario but with Sprint.
We even got so tired of this we told them several times very loudly "Then disconnect the damn phone!". They still didn't listen to us and started telling us over and over again why we shouldn't turn off the phone. I wanted to punch someone.

Again, they ALL suck!

I have heard this same story from someone on every US carrier. Its a tactic they all use.

levitynyc
Jan 8, 2007, 09:56 PM
Every single month cingular would try and sneak in some extra charges.

These charges would always be buried on page 3 or 4 of the bill.
After waiting on hold for 45 minutes, they would dissconect me. eventually
a rep would admit they were wrong, promise to adjust on the next bill.
The following month, guess what? that person no longer works here, let me transfer you. ooops.
I went through this charade every month for 2 years.

I've tried 'em all, So far verizon has been the best. I would love an apple
phone, but refuse to use cingular ever again. sorry steve.

I COULDN't be happier with Verizon.

syklee26
Jan 8, 2007, 09:56 PM
fact of the matter is ALL US cell phone carrier stink. if you go to any other countries, the reception is phenomenal. absolutely zero drop calls.

comparing Cingular to Verizon is like comparing Raiders to Lions....one might be better, but both stink hell.

If Apple indeed goes with Cingular, the best bet for you guys would be to go to London and buy a phone there so you can use it anywhere. I HIGHLY doubt Cingular will unlock the phone even if you call in.

digitalbiker
Jan 8, 2007, 09:57 PM
Let's just hope this phone isn't a piece of cr@p! Just because it is Apple doesn't mean that it is guaranteed to be a decent phone with decent reception and service features. Apple has made a few stinkers in it's history as well as hits.

I currently have Cingular with no current contract so this will work for me but not sure if I'll bite on a gen 1 product from Apple. Besides it is just a friggin phone. Whoo Hoo who really gives a cr@p.

Bring on the computers Apple that's what your good at.

mkjellman
Jan 8, 2007, 09:58 PM
well i paid money to cancel my cingular contract. i love my VZW service and treo 700w. customer service is amazing and service never lets me down....personally better than my cingular service.

to each there own, i'm in the Northeast however where VZW is king.

BWhaler
Jan 8, 2007, 10:00 PM
I can't wait. I hope it is a global phone since that is what I need and I hate every phone on the market and know Apple will do it right...

syklee26
Jan 8, 2007, 10:01 PM
speaking of cell phone, I hope someone brings a class action against these cell phone companies to stop them from hammering people with early termination fee even if that means paying more for cell. it's outrageous, especially cingular, that they provide service that does NOT work and hammers consumer with early termination fee because they were stupid enough to join them to begin with.

Cingular is absolutely brutal as far as connectivity is concerned and i live in New York. they constantly drop calls and whenever I try to make calls it randomly would not go through. Verizon is a bit better but not by much.

being a constant road warrior, when you are used to using cell phones in countries such as Korea, Japan and Hong Kong, US service is a joke. If the service was bad in rural area only, I would somewhat understand. But the problem is that service is bad regardless of where you are.

swingerofbirch
Jan 8, 2007, 10:01 PM
I was really hoping for something unlocked, something to shake up wireless, so hoping this isn't true, but I doubt the WSJ would print it unless they were pretty sure :mad:

imacdaddy
Jan 8, 2007, 10:01 PM
So much for Europe?

Not to worry. Cingular offers GSM mobile network which means the Apple "iPhone" is GSM. Just use your existing SIM card on it.

The story is not true. Most of these analysts talk and make up ***** anyway. Apple will be selling the phone via Apple Store/Dealers...unlocked. The mobile carriers can/will offer the phone with attractive voice/data plans to attract customers. The cost of the phone will be amortised within the contract term. The phone will obviously be sold globally and this is how it is going to work.

Stridder44
Jan 8, 2007, 10:02 PM
Um guys? Im pretty sure the "iPhone" is very real. We can stop wondering now.


Also, Verizon is no better than Cingular which is no better than Sprint or switch that any way you want it. Your phone service provider sucks.

And one last thing, CDMA sucks too.

After G
Jan 8, 2007, 10:03 PM
I do hope Apple doesn't go Cingular-only. But if they do, I think Apple, or the community will make unlocking it easy. :)

I remember back in the day it sucked and they wanted me to pay additional money to go GSM (it was new back then). No thanks. I want good service with what I paid for, jerks. :mad:

MeWhOeLsE
Jan 8, 2007, 10:04 PM
That would hold true if this was anything like a nomral offering from Motorola/Samsung/Nokia, but this phone from Apple is thought to be much much more.

$400 for a phone? People have been paying about that much for years for just music players. You don't think they'll pay that much for a phone that plays music among many other things?

Also, I would think they'd want to latch onto some emerging technologies like T-Mobile's WiFi phone service. That would seem more appropriate for Apple then going with Cingular (or AT&T Wireless as the commercial on the television just informed me).


I think the point was that they wouldn;t pay $400 if it was availiable for $100. If there was only the $400 model I have no doubt it'd sell

Stella
Jan 8, 2007, 10:05 PM
If you can, buy the phone outright and you can use it on your favourite GSM network and there is no Cingular issue.

Not introducing any phone to Europe is one huge mistake, one that even Apple couldn't be incompetent enough to make.

I hope this phone makes it to Rogers and Fido in Canada.

MeWhOeLsE
Jan 8, 2007, 10:06 PM
fact of the matter is ALL US cell phone carrier stink. if you go to any other countries, the reception is phenomenal. absolutely zero drop calls.

comparing Cingular to Verizon is like comparing Raiders to Lions....one might be better, but both stink hell.

If Apple indeed goes with Cingular, the best bet for you guys would be to go to London and buy a phone there so you can use it anywhere. I HIGHLY doubt Cingular will unlock the phone even if you call in.

They have to unlock the phone! Wasn't some legislation passed for that recently. It'll cost you though.

syklee26
Jan 8, 2007, 10:06 PM
there is this one samsung phone sold by Verizon wireless that allows it to be used in both GSM and CDMA environment. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple indeed use that technology. that would cater to both sides of the world.

geerlingguy
Jan 8, 2007, 10:09 PM
Without the whole story this is useless....:confused:

OOPS! BugMeNot doesn't work for paid sites... mea culpa.

SilvorX
Jan 8, 2007, 10:10 PM
Woo hoo! That means that I'll buy one off Rogers Wireless (or third party source if Rogers charges more than a 3rd party source) when it comes out when I get my Tax return in April!

twoodcc
Jan 8, 2007, 10:13 PM
god i hope the phone isn't too expensive... i use Cingular and my razr's battery is dying, and i dont like the phone very much... i'm hoping for a phone! (but i might have to wait for another half yr for the contract to end :S)

i have a razr also, and i don't like it that much either. my contract won't be up for awhile, but i might just buy the phone from Apple if it's possible and not too expensive

MattyMac
Jan 8, 2007, 10:16 PM
I bet it will be called a MacPhone. That will be the greatest idea rather than a unique name such as the iPod. The only problem with a name like iPod is that believe it or not, many oblivious ppl think iPod is the generic name for any mp3 player and they have no idea it is from apple.

If they call it the MacPhone, that will bring many more potential customers to their computer market...which is what they are, a computer company.

I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THIS TOMORROW. My cingular contract has been up for a while, just awaiting this day!


Oh yeah...it better be available right away!

chubad
Jan 8, 2007, 10:17 PM
Apple phone. OS X lite. PDA functions. Music player. Dual Battery. $800.00
It's Apple. It ain't gonna be cheap, people.;)

andrewface
Jan 8, 2007, 10:17 PM
it better be released in canada under rogers or something
we dont get cingular up here!

dante@sisna.com
Jan 8, 2007, 10:19 PM
Fantastic!

I will order one the minute Steve says it's here.

Cinch
Jan 8, 2007, 10:23 PM
Apple phone. OS X lite. PDA functions. Music player. Dual Battery. $800.00
It's Apple. It ain't gonna be cheap, people.;)

If it is beautiful and simply elegant, than $800 is fine with me.

The cell phone has become a style symbol/statement. There are people out there willing to pay $695 for a pair of Dsquared2 jeans, they will certainly buy a beautiful phone.

Cinch

imacdaddy
Jan 8, 2007, 10:26 PM
Apple phone. OS X lite. PDA functions. Music player. Dual Battery. $800.00
It's Apple. It ain't gonna be cheap, people.;)

Umm, Apple is not going to price the phone at $800...above the Mac Mini's price point and double the price of a 80GB iPod. It's probably going to come in at around the 80GB price point. $400 at most.

Creibold
Jan 8, 2007, 10:29 PM
I'm just praying that the lower-end phone (4GB, is the rumor I believe?) Is sub $300 or below $400 please. College students are made of money. Hell, I don't even need the music portion, my 80GB iPod is just now half way full :rolleyes:. However, if this thing does Video Streaming nicely and then has a 2 MP camera in it to boot, then I think my geek0-meter might shoot through the roof. :eek:

aiongiant
Jan 8, 2007, 10:31 PM
yea! come onnnn iphone! or whatever it will be called! heheh

i really really hope it's unlocked thought i'm pretty sure it will be

aswitcher
Jan 8, 2007, 10:35 PM
Looking good for the phone.

Rocketman
Jan 8, 2007, 10:37 PM
Fox News just did a newsbreak to announce Apple will Use Cingular for its "what people are calling" iPhone service.

Rocketman

Rocketman
Jan 8, 2007, 10:39 PM
I thought flash was limited to 16GB but it seems Samsung has been keeping 32GB under its hat.

That and an iPod HD makes a "ultra-lite" PC practical. That and wimax and 802.11n makes it possibly even "better".

Rocketman

mi5moav
Jan 8, 2007, 10:41 PM
Maybe it will be the first phone you need a mortgage on. Damn, I better check my credit score. It could cost like $999 and then you get $500 in itunes gift cards. Maybe get a freee phone with every Imac purchase.

I think the itv will be the end all for the DVD player under my TV.

MonkeyClaw
Jan 8, 2007, 10:43 PM
Fox News just did a newsbreak to announce Apple will Use Cingular for its "what people are calling" iPhone service.

Rocketman

That sucks cause if Fox is reporting it, then that means its probably never going to be announced considering Fox hasn't gotten a story right in oh...EVER...:p

But in all honesty, they were just commenting on the WSJ article so nothing new.

macfan881
Jan 8, 2007, 10:44 PM
cause Fox news is so reliable :rolleyes:

aswitcher
Jan 8, 2007, 10:46 PM
Fox link

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242483,00.html

cgingrich
Jan 8, 2007, 10:46 PM
I really forsee a palm-like relationship. Palm sells the treos unlocked on their website for around $400 (for the 680) then certain dealers pay to have exclusive access for a time and then others later will get the option to have the phones and they will subsidize they around $200. I really think that is a good move for Apple. It's hard to sell a $400 unlocked phone to everyone but when you give the option for $200 with a contract it's attractive to those who wouldn't have purchased it otherwise.

Rocketman
Jan 8, 2007, 10:48 PM
That sucks cause if Fox is reporting it, then that means its probably never going to be announced considering Fox hasn't gotten a story right in oh...EVER...:p

But in all honesty, they were just commenting on the WSJ article so nothing new.

I agree commenting on WSJ.

But this is the beginning of the "story" making the multi-network news cycle.

The host of CNBC Power Lunch went to CES day 1 and went back to NY today so he is not goiong to MW. I bet some CNBC flunkie is there however. CNBC gives Apple really good press.

Rocketman

NoelEiffe
Jan 8, 2007, 10:50 PM
o no!!!!
not cingular
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Cingular...the only reason on earth NOT to want an iPhone, but a powerful and compelling one.

bretm
Jan 8, 2007, 10:50 PM
This is not to hard to speculate on, as a matter of fact I would bet 10K that there will be a phone tomorrow.

There HAS to be.

It will probably be white flip phone with the glowing,pulsating apple. It will have 8GB flash, a video camera, wireless, TV ready, usb 2.0 charger/ sync, and will connect free to iTunes store (obviously).

It will be able to play while your on the phone so you can have background tunes (Muzak) and it may even have rudimentary video phone capability (let's really hope on this one).

No wonder Jobs is all worked up.

And i tell you, I'm sure as HELL not going to wait for Sprint to get around to piking up on this as there are pathetic.

Tomorrow i'm going to call Cingular even before it's announced (i'll wait to sign up though ; ) that's how sure I am of this.

Might as well be some Sony or other piece of junk with the apple name on it. If they don't reinvent the thing then all this wait was pointless. I'm thinking pda/ipod/phone device. That's what I need. I have a phone. I have an ipod. I need a pda. I'm not adding a third device, and I'm not going to replace one I have with the same.

awatiker
Jan 8, 2007, 10:50 PM
There is no real reason why Apple couldn't make a phone for both CDMA and GSM, Motorolla has done this with the Razr for example. That being said I am unsure whether this device will really fly. First, unless they release a non-mp3 version, I think they will have eroded their own base. Think of how many people already carry $300 iPods. It may be hard to get them to agree to dump their $100 phones and expensive contracts to get a $400 phone with functionality they already have on their iPods. Secondly, I have seen little evidence that people are really interested in music, photos or any of that on their phones because of the outrageous rates the companies charge for data service. Either Apple will have to work out a way to lower this rate or costumers will be unhappy. My other concern would be that if Apple doesn't manage their own billing and support, which they conceivably could, people will have to deal with the terrible service, and stupid charges and won't get that "premium Apple experience".

music.addict411
Jan 8, 2007, 10:55 PM
it better be released in canada under rogers or something
we dont get cingular up here!

Dont worry, Canada will be getting it under Rogers.

Rogers is just the Canadian Cingular.

I hope they call it the iPhone.

cynerjist
Jan 8, 2007, 10:55 PM
I agree commenting on WSJ.

But this is the beginning of the "story" making the multi-network news cycle.

The host of CNBC Power Lunch went to CES day 1 and went back to NY today so he is not goiong to MW. I bet some CNBC flunkie is there however. CNBC gives Apple really good press.

Rocketman

you're serious? i think cnbc does give apple pretty good press compared to many of the others. it seems they devote a daily segment to MW speculation this last month. And then there's Mad Money Cramer pumping the stock.

Why would they send a flunkie to MW? Many of their viewers are now familiar with the stock and likely invested in it.

coal
Jan 8, 2007, 10:56 PM
I think the point was that they wouldn;t pay $400 if it was availiable for $100. If there was only the $400 model I have no doubt it'd sell

Right. But again, how does this really benefit Apple unless Cingular is paying them for the opportunity to tie themselves to Apple's brand? That discounted $100 price will still tie Apple's market down to 40 million customers or so rather than the combined GSM market for the United States (meaning really only Cingular and T-Mobile). People WILL pay the $400 price then why go with Cingular?

Aside from that, T-Mobile actually has a European presence and would be just as worthwhile as Cingular considering their recent heavy investment in additional frequency and innovation with WiFi phones.

Honestly, it just doesn't make sense.

(I will admit though, that as a former AT&T Wireless employee, I have a particular dislike of all things Cingular. Perhaps I'm just not seeing what you all see.)

cynerjist
Jan 8, 2007, 10:57 PM
folks, if it hasn't been said, they went Cingular for GSM support. If they want to put this into Europe, which is utilizes GSM heavily, this makes sense. They won't have to design/manufacture 5 different versions of the phone to support all the bands. they could also go t-mobile as they use GSM and are in EU.

i'm hoping they eventually release something for the 3G EVDO networks for more interesting apps like broadband tv/video.

aiongiant
Jan 8, 2007, 10:58 PM
Dont worry, Canada will be getting it under Rogers.

Rogers is just the Canadian Cingular.

I hope they call it the iPhone.

haha thats good
cause i'm rogers hehe =)

quigleybc
Jan 8, 2007, 10:59 PM
Cingular in the states means Rogers in Canada, which is very good news.


This is what I was wondering, and yes it is good news. I'm already with Rogers, and by the time I'm ready to buy a new phone, it will be available here, aka 6 months to a year:rolleyes:

music.addict411
Jan 8, 2007, 10:59 PM
I think a Built-in Camera would be very unlikely for the original apple phone.

"iPhone" will probably start out small like the 1st Gen iPod, then new models with come out with cameras, more memory, etc.

gloss
Jan 8, 2007, 11:02 PM
cause Fox news is so reliable :rolleyes:

Reliable, sure. Balanced, not particularly.

Stella
Jan 8, 2007, 11:09 PM
I very much doubt it will be called MacPhone.

Why?

MacPhone gives the impression it only syncs with Macs. Even if you scream from the tallest buildings there will still be windows users who think it only syncs with Macs, and not windows, who may otherwise buy it.

US$1000 is too high a price, CA$700 is more realistic ( to buy outright ) and is on par with the competition.

yg17
Jan 8, 2007, 11:11 PM
I think a Built-in Camera would be very unlikely for the original apple phone.

"iPhone" will probably start out small like the 1st Gen iPod, then new models with come out with cameras, more memory, etc.


You can't sell a trendy, hip phone that's going to cost several hundreds of dollars and not include a camera.

DaveClarkOne
Jan 8, 2007, 11:11 PM
I would subscribe to Cingular if they gave me the phone. They are NOT a customer -centric company. My examples:
1. Too many dropped calls (13 last month)
2. You can't delete a voice mail until you listen to the whole thing --sometimes you don't need to hear the whole message (Cingular is selling air time here...the bastards)
3. I often didn't get my voice mail until 6-8 hours after the voice mail was created --sometimes messages are TIME SENSITIVE
4. My recommendation: Threaten to quit the service at customer service, get a concession on charges, then QUIT the service.
5. They will not waive your $150-175 early termination fee, because THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.
6. The user interface on the Razr with Cingular is poor (Sprint's is superior here)
7. Buy a new phone with Cingular and pay retail. If it goes bad (mine did 5x), they send you a refurbished, used phone. Great, just what I wanted. Not!

Please Apple, say it isn't so.....

DaveClarkOne
Jan 8, 2007, 11:11 PM
I just cancelled Cingular for the worst cell service I've ever had. They are the worst --and don't take my word for it, try reading Consumer Reports: They are DEAD LAST.

Rocketman
Jan 8, 2007, 11:12 PM
I very much doubt it will be called MacPhone.


I say Apple Phone.

The phone device is a well known visual, and it will have a simple Apple logo on it.

Just speculation of course :)

Rocketman

pkis
Jan 8, 2007, 11:12 PM
Oh nooooo, please tell me this thing isn't going to be US-only :-( If that's the case, scores of Apple customers in Europe would be really, really angry.

CaptainCaveMann
Jan 8, 2007, 11:12 PM
I dont know if cingular is the problem or if its my razr. But i live in a big city and my service totally sucks in my house. It goes from full bars to 0 bars every other minute. Its retarded and i know i miss calls and text messages because of it. Extremely irritating when im paying 100 dollars a month for service im not really getting. :rolleyes:

aiongiant
Jan 8, 2007, 11:13 PM
i'm guessing iPod Phone or iMobile

xPismo
Jan 8, 2007, 11:13 PM
I almost hope its all wrong.


Just for the shock of it.


Oh, and then I wouldn't have to work my ass off to pay for it all. :D

zwida
Jan 8, 2007, 11:16 PM
I just cancelled Cingular for the worst cell service I've ever had. They are the worst --and don't take my word for it, try reading Consumer Reports: They are DEAD LAST.

Not so bad in NYC. At least as good as the Verizon service I used to have.

the17thman
Jan 8, 2007, 11:20 PM
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/wsj-reports-apple-and-cingular-launching-cellphone/

The WSJ just published a story implying the phone could be launched tomorrow. Does anyone have access to the full article here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116830347326670832.html?mod=djemalert


I read the aritcle on wsj.com a few hours ago and then went to show someone the article at 9pm PST the story was changed. Now it says "may announce" and the story has been rewritten.

TonicAngel
Jan 8, 2007, 11:20 PM
Cingular is horrid in my town. They claim they have excellent service yet calls drop all the time. My best friend goes from full bars to zero bars just by moving her phone an inch. Its ridiculous. :mad: Verizon on the other hand is extremely reliable here and I've never had a dropped call.

TonicAngel
Jan 8, 2007, 11:21 PM
I read the aritcle on wsj.com a few hours ago and then went to show someone the article at 9pm PST the story was changed. Now it says "may announce" and the story has been rewritten.

What was changed?

DaveClarkOne
Jan 8, 2007, 11:22 PM
Not so bad in NYC. At least as good as the Verizon service I used to have.

Service can vary by location, it's true. On principle, however, Cingular business practices should give you pause. Read above for my reasons on quitting. I'm happy with Sprint. Verizon is higher rated by a significant margin if you read Consumer Reports.

mi5moav
Jan 8, 2007, 11:23 PM
tmobile wants to be hip with their sidekick and dash and I don't think they really wanted Apple to eat into those profits. I still don't believe Apple is going into the cellphone market it is cutTHROAT. But I wish them the best. I think they really need to be in the camera market. I think they could give canon, casio and sony a run for their money. This phone business is crazy. But if it has to be let it be called the Newton. I am 100% sure it will not be called the N56LR-9

Daringescape
Jan 8, 2007, 11:25 PM
Im in Los Angeles and never have a problem with my Cingular service - I have a signal all over. I was in Hawaii over the summer and had no problems there as well as Carson city and Reno, NV.

If the Apple Phone is on Cingular, I will get one as soon as I am eligble for an upgrade.

DaveClarkOne
Jan 8, 2007, 11:25 PM
I dont know if cingular is the problem or if its my razr. But i live in a big city and my service totally sucks in my house. It goes from full bars to 0 bars every other minute. Its retarded and i know i miss calls and text messages because of it. Extremely irritating when im paying 100 dollars a month for service im not really getting. :rolleyes:

It's CINGULAR. It sucks. I switched to Sprint using the same Razr. I haven't had a dropped call since. Sprint isn't perfect, but it has some advantages with internet speed, using CDMA. I would go with Verizon if you wanted a GSM phone.

Whistleway
Jan 8, 2007, 11:27 PM
Here you go. The entire article for free with no subscription bs.

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/shares/international_news/563488.htm

Zadillo
Jan 8, 2007, 11:29 PM
I would subscribe to Cingular if they gave me the phone. They are NOT a customer -centric company. My examples:
1. Too many dropped calls (13 last month)
2. You can't delete a voice mail until you listen to the whole thing --sometimes you don't need to hear the whole message (Cingular is selling air time here...the bastards)
3. I often didn't get my voice mail until 6-8 hours after the voice mail was created --sometimes messages are TIME SENSITIVE
4. My recommendation: Threaten to quit the service at customer service, get a concession on charges, then QUIT the service.
5. They will not waive your $150-175 early termination fee, because THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.
6. The user interface on the Razr with Cingular is poor (Sprint's is superior here)
7. Buy a new phone with Cingular and pay retail. If it goes bad (mine did 5x), they send you a refurbished, used phone. Great, just what I wanted. Not!

Please Apple, say it isn't so.....

Regarding voicemail, I don't know if they set this up differently elsewhere, but I am just able to hit 7 to delete a voicemail without listening to it (there's also a fastforward command to just fast forward to the end of a voicemail).

I haven't really had any of the other problems you mentioned. I think that's the thing with any of these cell companies; I think just about all of them have customers who think they are terrible, and customers who think they are great, because it doesn't seem like any of them are able to provide a satisfactory experience in all regions.

-Zadillo

Zadillo
Jan 8, 2007, 11:30 PM
tmobile wants to be hip with their sidekick and dash and I don't think they really wanted Apple to eat into those profits. I still don't believe Apple is going into the cellphone market it is cutTHROAT. But I wish them the best. I think they really need to be in the camera market. I think they could give canon, casio and sony a run for their money. This phone business is crazy. But if it has to be let it be called the Newton. I am 100% sure it will not be called the N56LR-9

Because the digital camera market isn't cut-throat.... :)

poppe
Jan 8, 2007, 11:33 PM
It's CINGULAR. It sucks. I switched to Sprint using the same Razr. I haven't had a dropped call since. Sprint isn't perfect, but it has some advantages with internet speed, using CDMA. I would go with Verizon if you wanted a GSM phone.

Pretty sure Verizon isn't GSM It is CDMA as well... or so it used to be.

That said if the phone doesn't come in two models CDMA and GSM then there will be no purchase buy me... sprint is the one I have and won't be switching thouh they aren't that great.

I stay with sprint because its the only place that offers unlimited text. Well as of 3 years ago. Now I think tMobile does for 10-15 a month so they are caught up, but cingular and verizon still have a while...

DaveClarkOne
Jan 8, 2007, 11:37 PM
Pretty sure Verizon isn't GSM It is CDMA as well... or so it used to be.



You are correct. I meant t-mobile for GSM.

MinkPod
Jan 8, 2007, 11:39 PM
Yay for me! I use Cingular and love the service. No problems. Can't wait to get my hands on one :)

w00master
Jan 8, 2007, 11:42 PM
I've always dreamed about a great cellphone by Apple, however I know the realities of the wireless industry, and frankly I'm wary of Apple entering this market. Why? Just read this forum post, that should be reason enough. Let's take some examples here:

1. Apple goes with Cingular
You get people (like on this forum) that will whine and moan about going with Cingular, because how crappy their customer service is or their service in general. Or, you'll get people who complain because their with Verizon Wireless or Sprint b/c their network is CDMA.

2. Apple goes with Verizon or Sprint
Same thing, people complain about customer service or service. People complain because their on Cingular, T-Mobile, etc.

These are just *some* of the reasons why I'm not in favor of Apple going into this market. The wireless industry is extremely cutthroat as well as draconian as hell. With this WSJ report alone, why would Apple want to associate itself with a company with a *TERRIBLE* reputation with customer service? Even on the flip side (VZW or Sprint), the picture doesn't look good as well. You immediately split your market. You compete with other phones that are with completely different providers. So, not only do you have to get them to switch phones and buy yours (yours meaning Apple), but you *ALSO* have to get them to switch services. This is *NOT* like selling a Mac, iPod, or whatever.

I really hope Apple has something "up their sleeves" to at least address *some* of these problems. I personally absolutely DESPISE the wireless industry, but (unfortunately) my job depends on using cellphones. I can't get around that. I just hope Apple can give a phone for everyone and truly revolutionize this horrid industry.

w00master

SiliconAddict
Jan 8, 2007, 11:44 PM
o no!!!!
not cingular
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

My thoughts exactly. :(

Zadillo
Jan 8, 2007, 11:46 PM
Just as a possibility, the phrasing of the WSJ article sort of implies to me something different. That is, they phrase it as Cingular providing the mobile network for Apple's new phone. That really does make it sound more like an MVNO deal, where Apple would essentially have a virtual mobile network running on top of Cingular. If that were the case, it would allow Apple to set their own pricing plans, have their own customer service, etc. separate from Cingular.

This would fit into previous rumors that Apple would be doing an MVNO (much like what ESPN's phone service was, or stuff like Boost Mobile).

digitalbiker
Jan 8, 2007, 11:52 PM
You are correct. I meant t-mobile for GSM.

Yeah, GSM is a real downer! Data transfer speeds are ridiculously slow. CDMA in the states or at least in my area is much better. Better signal quality, fewer dropped calls, better voice quality, and much much faster data transfer rates.

Plus only the CDMA hybrid networks can provide the walkie-talkie feature which is really nice.

w00master
Jan 8, 2007, 11:53 PM
Just as a possibility, the phrasing of the WSJ article sort of implies to me something different. That is, they phrase it as Cingular providing the mobile network for Apple's new phone. That really does make it sound more like an MVNO deal, where Apple would essentially have a virtual mobile network running on top of Cingular. If that were the case, it would allow Apple to set their own pricing plans, have their own customer service, etc. separate from Cingular.

This would fit into previous rumors that Apple would be doing an MVNO (much like what ESPN's phone service was, or stuff like Boost Mobile).

I hope so, but the problems with MVNOs are enormous as well. However, just so I can put a positive light on my gripes, MAYBE they're just using Cingular's EDGE service? Maybe, the iPhone (whatever the heck it'll be called) is actually a wi-fi phone. In other words, when your outside a wifi network, you get and receive calls via the EDGE service. When your inside a wifi network, you get the call as a VOIP call. Ahh, I know... I'm dreaming.

w00master

joepunk
Jan 8, 2007, 11:56 PM
I'll be walking in the mall or whatever with my really inexpensive Verizon phone and some really young kid is going to tell her/his parents that they have to have the best. Meaning, parents fork up the $$$ and buy them the most expensive machine. :rolleyes:

Seen it happen at Car Toys and at an Apple store.

Anyway, all the best wishes to those who are looking forward to Apple's elusive immaculate machine.

uNext
Jan 8, 2007, 11:56 PM
Ohh god let the complaining begin

Now that a reputable source have claimed the release of an apple phone
people are starting to wine.

I cant stand it seriously people wine about microsoft-people wine about apple- etc.

Run a multi billion dollar company and see how fast you fold.


If you have cingular tomorrows your day-if you cdma tough luck thats it period-you want apple to go into the cell phone business right?

So apple as a company out for money will look at the best possible market share-the best money gain-the most users etc.

I dont think apple is looking at how many people think cdma is better or how gsm is better-you want your favorite company to go into a market with razorblades across every competitors throat. Deal with it.

mi5moav
Jan 8, 2007, 11:58 PM
I actually woudn't be suprised if Apple bought Palm.

Palm owns Handspring patents, Be Patents and a bunch of other stuff. I think Steve has been licking his lips for a while now and now as in today would be a good time.

Merlyn3D
Jan 8, 2007, 11:58 PM
Man.....it would be totally against everything Apple to go with a Cingular only phone. Plus, I'd be disappointed if all it had was EDGE, that's like a non-EVDO sprint or verizon phone. If it's GSM, it had better have UMTS, hopefully it will be CDMA as well, as the market here in the states is pretty big for it, and EVDO is very widespread now.

Oh, and also because I pay $92 a month after taxes for 2000 min, 3 lines, unlimited EVDO, 500 SMS on each line, 7pm nights, unlimited mobile to mobile....all on sprint. And to top it off, Sprint has more EVDO coverage than Verizon and more coverage (including all roaming areas on both carriers), as well as higher average EVDO speeds. Sure customer service isn't as good, but I'd rather pay less than half as much since I don't find myself calling CS more than 3-4 times a year.

Merlyn3D
Jan 9, 2007, 12:03 AM
Ohh god let the complaining begin

Now that a reputable source have claimed the release of an apple phone
people are starting to wine.

I cant stand it seriously people wine about microsoft-people wine about apple- etc.

Run a multi billion dollar company and see how fast you fold.


If you have cingular tomorrows your day-if you cdma tough luck thats it period-you want apple to go into the cell phone business right?

So apple as a company out for money will look at the best possible market share-the best money gain-the most users etc.

I dont think apple is looking at how many people think cdma is better or how gsm is better-you want your favorite company to go into a market with razorblades across every competitors throat. Deal with it.

I believe the work you're looking for is "whine", not wine. Wine is made from grapes, whereas whine is made from tears.

SiliconAddict
Jan 9, 2007, 12:04 AM
Fox link

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242483,00.html

Crap...its AP. So much for the iPhone. I don't join a network to get a phone I join a network to get good service. Dang. :(

Apple you suck. :mad:

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:14 AM
It's CINGULAR. It sucks. I switched to Sprint using the same Razr. I haven't had a dropped call since. Sprint isn't perfect, but it has some advantages with internet speed, using CDMA. I would go with Verizon if you wanted a GSM phone.

A few issues with this post:

1) The RAZR Sprint and Cingular cell are completely different phones. Cingular's is the V3; Sprint's is the V3m. Sprint's has 6x the memory, doesn't have as good as a display as Cingular's, Cingular's has ringer profiles, Sprint's has flight mode, Sprint's has 3G (EVDO) which is a major step in data speeds and is known as Power Vision, and Sprint's has a music player with a memory card slot.
2) The UI on the Cingular V3 is actually Motorola's default interface; Sprint tinkers with their phones. While they don't have a standard interface put onto all of their phones like Verizon, they have certain requirements that an interface must have and general guidelines as to what the main menu looks like.
3) Verizon is CDMA, not GSM.

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:21 AM
Yeah, GSM is a real downer! Data transfer speeds are ridiculously slow. CDMA in the states or at least in my area is much better. Better signal quality, fewer dropped calls, better voice quality, and much much faster data transfer rates.

Plus only the CDMA hybrid networks can provide the walkie-talkie feature which is really nice.

I believe Cingular has Push To Talk, don't they? :) T-Mobile is the only one of the core four that doesn't have PTT/walkie-talkie. And what exactly do you mean by "CDMA hybrid networks"?

Cingular does have 3G UMTS, but it's in select cities. T-Mobile's working on a 3.5G HSDPA network scheduled to launch sometime next summer or autumn. Oh, and It's going to cover more than Verizon or Sprint's 3G networks. :eek:

~*~*~*~*~*~

I personally don't really care about the ApplePhone anymore. I just got a Sidekick, and I'm quite happy with it. (Plus, I do have an account on two other carriers of the core four.) The only reason I'd buy an ApplePhone is for a spare, but I already have a spare Nokia 3250. I have a feeling that Apple may launch it on Cingular (soon to be something with AT&T) and also have an unlocked GSM version. Perhaps they'll launch it on T-Mobile or other carriers later on.

FreeState
Jan 9, 2007, 12:22 AM
Wall Street Journal reports on January 8, 2007 8:42 p.m.:

Apple, Cingular Set to Team Up on Cellphone
Cingular Wireless is expected to provide wireless service for a new Apple Computer Inc. cellphone, people familiar with the situation say. The launch of the new phone and service is expected to be announced as early as Tuesday, these people say.

the way this is written it sounds like it is a Mobile Virtual Network Operator (MVNO).

swingerofbirch
Jan 9, 2007, 12:27 AM
The fox article seems to use the WSJ as its source. The fact that so much attention has been given to a product which Apple has never given any indication to existing even on real tv NEWS shows is a bit discouraging, although they show a lot of crap that isn't worthwhile, but still, a "sign of the times."

I am not at all saying I personally am not excited, just that major media coverage doesn't seem proportionate.

Anyhow............here's to hoping there's some twist tomorrow that will make it not a Cingular phone in the way we are thinking...

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:27 AM
I just cancelled Cingular for the worst cell service I've ever had. They are the worst --and don't take my word for it, try reading Consumer Reports: They are DEAD LAST.

Look again. They rated Sprint last. SPRINT? NOOOO! :eek: :)

I do think, though, that you should pick a carrier that has everything you want and works where you want. 'Tis why my family all chose Sprint...until August '05 when they bought Nextel. We've gotten worse customer care, and we had a GIANT issue when we tried to get international phones from them (they wouldn't even give us the bloody SIM card!) Plus, we got this sales lady that pretended to save money for my mom when all she did was just sell her more phones. :mad: My sisters will probably keep it, though, because it's the only one that works in their area. I'm probably going to turn in my Sprint phone because I have T-Mobile now.

(Sorry for the triple post)

DaveClarkOne
Jan 9, 2007, 12:29 AM
A few issues with this post:

1) The RAZR Sprint and Cingular cell are completely different phones. Cingular's is the V3; Sprint's is the V3m. Sprint's has 6x the memory, doesn't have as good as a display as Cingular's, Cingular's has ringer profiles, Sprint's has flight mode, Sprint's has 3G (EVDO) which is a major step in data speeds and is known as Power Vision, and Sprint's has a music player with a memory card slot.
2) The UI on the Cingular V3 is actually Motorola's default interface; Sprint tinkers with their phones. While they don't have a standard interface put onto all of their phones like Verizon, they have certain requirements that an interface must have and general guidelines as to what the main menu looks like.
3) Verizon is CDMA, not GSM.

You are correct with #3 (I meant to say t-mobile for GSM carrier). On your other points, I MUCH prefer the user interface with Sprint --right down to the font (easier to read and navigate, in my view). The display is brighter and larger than the Cingular Razr I gave up. We may have to agree to disagree here.

DaveClarkOne
Jan 9, 2007, 12:31 AM
Look again. They rated Sprint last. SPRINT? NOOOO! :eek: :)

I do think, though, that you should pick a carrier that has everything you want and works where you want. 'Tis why my family all chose Sprint...until August '05 when they bought Nextel. We've gotten worse customer care, and we had a GIANT issue when we tried to get international phones from them (they wouldn't even give us the bloody SIM card!) Plus, we got this sales lady that pretended to save money for my mom when all she did was just sell her more phones. :mad: My sisters will probably keep it, though, because it's the only one that works in their area. I'm probably going to turn in my Sprint phone because I have T-Mobile now.

(Sorry for the triple post)

What issue are you referring to? Where was Cingular in the review you read? Because I can assure you it was dead last in the issue I read. Sprint isn't perfect, but where I live (Seattle), I'm getting FAR better service with Sprint than I did with Cingular. Believe me, I didn't want to quit early and pay early termination fees. But extremely poor service at Cingular left me with no choice.

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:32 AM
You are correct with #3 (I meant to say t-mobile for GSM carrier). On your other points, I MUCH prefer the user interface with Sprint --right down to the font (easier to read and navigate, in my view). The display is brighter and larger than the Cingular Razr I gave up. We may have to agree to disagree here.

I'm not saying that I prefer the Cingular one; in fact, I like the Sprint one better. (Oh, I forgot to mention that Cingular's had a .3 MP camera (VGA) while Sprint's has 1.3 MP.) There's no need for that bloody menu buttom Motorola puts on the V3! I like what Sprint did to the UI, too.

The screen, while I haven't compared them side to side, they have the same pixel count, but the V3 is capable of displaying 262,000 colors while the V3M is only capable of 65,000 colorss. I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes; I was just going by a PhoneScoop comparasion.

FreeState
Jan 9, 2007, 12:35 AM
I hope so, but the problems with MVNOs are enormous as well. However, just so I can put a positive light on my gripes, MAYBE they're just using Cingular's EDGE service? Maybe, the iPhone (whatever the heck it'll be called) is actually a wi-fi phone. In other words, when your outside a wifi network, you get and receive calls via the EDGE service. When your inside a wifi network, you get the call as a VOIP call. Ahh, I know... I'm dreaming.

w00master

Also didn't Apple recently aquire World Coms huge cellphone data center? I really am starting to think its a Mobile Virtual Network Operation.

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:36 AM
What issue are you referring to? Where was Cingular in the review you read? Because I can assure you it was dead last in the issue I read. Sprint isn't perfect, but where I live (Seattle), I'm getting FAR better service with Sprint than I did with Cingular. Believe me, I didn't want to quit early and pay early termination fees. But extremely poor service at Cingular left me with no choice.

If you look at the first page of it, it shows a brief rundown of the five carriers, and in order of overall satisfaction (left --> right.) This was before the breakdown for all the cities Here's their order for the overall (I think):
1) Verizon
2) T-Mobile
3) Alltel
4) Cingular
5) Sprint

As long as you're happy with them and deliver what you want, that's all that matters. I've tried all of those except Cingular and Alltel, and I'd rate Sprint the best in Colorado. It's a little early to rate T-Mobile because I've only had them for three weeks, but I think they might actually get the cake.

SeaFox
Jan 9, 2007, 12:37 AM
Simple: Cingular recently sold a cellphone that had iTunes access. And unlike T-Mobile, Cingular's GSM coverage area is huge across the USA.

Lets see:

Cingular's coverage (http://cingular.com/coverageviewer/?_requestid=6088).

T-Mobile's coverage (http://coverage.t-mobile.com/idealer.aspx).

Biiiiig difference... :rolleyes:

mikeinternet
Jan 9, 2007, 12:38 AM
cingular user and fan... been using a boring free phone for 6 months waiting for this. if this thing is at least 25% of our expectations i'm buying.

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:39 AM
I hope so, but the problems with MVNOs are enormous as well. However, just so I can put a positive light on my gripes, MAYBE they're just using Cingular's EDGE service? Maybe, the iPhone (whatever the heck it'll be called) is actually a wi-fi phone. In other words, when your outside a wifi network, you get and receive calls via the EDGE service. When your inside a wifi network, you get the call as a VOIP call. Ahh, I know... I'm dreaming.

w00master

I think you mean Cingular's 2G GSM voice network; EDGE is Cingular's 2.75G data network that runs alongside with their GSM. EDGE actually stands for Enhanced Data for the GSM Evolution.

Oh, and T-Mobile's actually working on an Unlicensed Mobile Access (UMA) system that's currently being tested in Seattle. It will use a T-Mobile HotSpot or your own Home HotSpot whenever your phone is in range of one, and will switch over to GSM whenever there isn't one within distance.

SeaFox
Jan 9, 2007, 12:39 AM
Crap...its AP. So much for the iPhone. I don't join a network to get a phone I join a network to get good service. Dang. :(

Apple you suck. :mad:

Yeah, my sentiments exactly.

OT: FoxNews? Oh yeah, there's a great source of "information".

Edit: On the plus side: All the Cingular users get to deal with the inevitable "revision A" problems, and get them ironed out before the rest of us buy.

barkins
Jan 9, 2007, 12:42 AM
I recently (a little less than a year ago) switched from Verizon to Cingular and couldn't be more pleased.

Verizon really ticked me off with their standard menu style they place on almost all of their phones. Fugly ass red and Windows-like textures.

I'm really pleased with my Cingular phone for 3 reasons. I can customize the interface, I get a great signal pretty much everywhere I go, and with the SIM card (which Verizon phones don't have) I can store my phone book and transfer it to, hopefully, the iPhone.

SeaFox
Jan 9, 2007, 12:45 AM
folks, if it hasn't been said, they went Cingular for GSM support. If they want to put this into Europe, which is utilizes GSM heavily, this makes sense. They won't have to design/manufacture 5 different versions of the phone to support all the bands. they could also go t-mobile as they use GSM and are in EU.

Yeah, I keep forgetting that. I'll just have to get a European iPhone. As whenever Sony-Ericsson or anyone else makes a phone, the European model always includes 1900mhz GSM. That's why the Sony-Ericsson T610 was what T-Mobile offered in the U.S., even though the T-616 Cingular sold supported 850 and 1900mhz. Of course, T-Mobile had that phone first. It wasn't until about six months later the 616 came out.

Rocketman
Jan 9, 2007, 12:49 AM
I think you mean Cingular's 2G GSM voice network; EDGE is Cingular's 2.75G data network that runs alongside with their GSM. EDGE actually stands for Enhanced Data for the GSM Evolution.

Oh, and T-Mobile's actually working on an Unlicensed Mobile Access (UMA) system that's currently being tested in Seattle. It will use a T-Mobile HotSpot or your own Home HotSpot whenever your phone is in range of one, and will switch over to GSM whenever there isn't one within distance.

I had an interesting conversation with my Cingular rep (the one able to deal with internet access issues). He stated Edge was slower than the other networks out there (Sprint commercial rteinforces that). But one wonders if Cingular has another deployment planned to attract Apple. Apple tends to adopt things before they are really ripe.

Wi-Max as the backup plan?

Rocketman

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:51 AM
Plus, I think Verizon and Sprint have different visions. They are creating their own music phone solutions and were not willing to give the ROKR a try because they wanted people to spend $2-3 buying a song through them instead of seamlessly syncing with iTunes.

wyatt23
Jan 9, 2007, 12:51 AM
all i care about is...

will i be able to unlock this and use it on t-mobile?

hopefully yes.

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 12:53 AM
I had an interesting conversation with my Cingular rep (the one able to deal with internet access issues). He stated Edge was slower than the other networks out there (Sprint commercial rteinforces that). But one wonders if Cingular has another deployment planned to attract Apple. Apple tends to adopt things before they are really ripe.

Wi-Max as the backup plan?

Rocketman

Well, yes, 2.75G is slower than 3G, but that commercial is unfair because Cingular does have a 3G network. It'd be like Cingular comparing their 3G UMTS to Sprint's 2.5G 1xRTT. :rolleyes:

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 12:57 AM
What issue are you referring to? Where was Cingular in the review you read? Because I can assure you it was dead last in the issue I read. Sprint isn't perfect, but where I live (Seattle), I'm getting FAR better service with Sprint than I did with Cingular. Believe me, I didn't want to quit early and pay early termination fees. But extremely poor service at Cingular left me with no choice.
At consumerreports.org (subsciption required), Sprint is rated dead last in most centres, with Cingular next to last in most cases. With Apple's penchant for control, however, this looks to me to likely be an MVNO.

meth
Jan 9, 2007, 12:58 AM
man, it sounds like this may be cingular branded. sucks if that is so. if they are going to charge $400, i rather it be an unlocked gsm so i can at least use most of the features of the phone on tmobile.

also, this phone had better be godlike because i run the sonyericsson w810i and i love that thing, they have to top that by a big margin for me to want to make a switch.

FreeState
Jan 9, 2007, 01:03 AM
At consumerreports.org (subsciption required), Sprint is rated dead last in most centres, with Cingular next to last in most cases. With Apple's penchant for control, however, this looks to me to likely be an MVNO.

I agree about the MVNO. Im currently on Sprint and hate it. It use to be okay but its gone down hill here in San Diego - I can not even get reception at work or in my house, which both are with in a mile of the Zoo (extremely central).

technicolor
Jan 9, 2007, 01:05 AM
all i care about is...

will i be able to unlock this and use it on t-mobile?

hopefully yes.

That is what I am hoping for. As well as it having some PDA functions.

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 01:07 AM
man, it sounds like this may be cingular branded. sucks if that is so. if they are going to charge $400, i rather it be an unlocked gsm so i can at least use most of the features of the phone on tmobile.
Apple will not introduce a phone branded by another manufacturer after all the toil that reportedly went into this phone (remember, Jobs reportedly scrapped the whole thing and had it redesigned from scratch), and especially not after the ROKR failure.

iMacZealot
Jan 9, 2007, 01:09 AM
Well, this is it for the iMacZealot on MacRumors/apple.com until 3:30 tomorrow. If only the storm that's supposed to come on Friday would come tonight so I'd have a snow day...

Zealot OUT!

peestandingup
Jan 9, 2007, 01:11 AM
If this is true, then it sucks. Basically, just like any other phone branded with all kinds of Cingular crap that we will have to pay a boat load of money for to get unlocked & thats sold through Cingular stores?? Yeah, way to shake up the system, Apple. :rolleyes:

Why the hell can't they just offer an unlocked GSM phone sold through the Apple Store at a fair price without all the BS?? Is that too much to ask??? Apparently so.

technicolor
Jan 9, 2007, 01:12 AM
If this is true, then it sucks. Basically, just like any other phone branded with all kinds of Cingular crap that we will have to pay a boat load of money for to get unlocked & thats sold through Cingular stores?? Yeah, way to shake up the system, Apple. :rolleyes:

Why the hell can't they just offer an unlocked GSM phone sold through the Apple Store at a fair price without all the BS?? Is that too much to ask??? Apparently so.

Hahahah you have drawn all those conclusions and Apple hasnt even announced any details yet?

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 01:17 AM
Apple will not introduce a phone branded by another manufacturer after all the toil that reportedly went into this phone (remember, Jobs reportedly scrapped the whole thing and had it redesigned from scratch), and especially not after the ROKR failure.

The problem with cellphones is: they don't sell unless they're offered together with a carrier-contract that allows for the phone to be sold at a significantly lower price. Hardly anyone ever pays full price for a phone because we have gotten used to prices in the 200$ range while the phones actually cost 4 to 5 times as much in the open market. If Apple decided to sell the phones directly, only enthusiasts would buy - but Apple wants to reach a mass-market that doesn't check apple.com every 5 minutes.
So I'm pretty sure the Cingular thing is true - which leaves me very much disappointed as I don't live in the US. It wouldn't be the first time Apple treats European customers as second-class citizens. Actually - this happens with almost every other product they offer. Don't know why I keep on buying from them, actually - as Apple clearly doesn't care about the European market even though they have a much larger market share here then they do in the US. Obviously, they can afford to ignore us.

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 01:19 AM
If this is true, then it sucks. Basically, just like any other phone branded with all kinds of Cingular crap that we will have to pay a boat load of money for to get unlocked & thats sold through Cingular stores?? Yeah, way to shake up the system, Apple. :rolleyes:

Why the hell can't they just offer an unlocked GSM phone sold through the Apple Store at a fair price without all the BS?? Is that too much to ask??? Apparently so.
I seriously doubt that it's going to be "just like any other phone". And Apple has to compete in an environment in which most comparable devices are not unlocked, and their price is subsidized by the contracts attached to them. Have you ever seen an unlocked phone in a retail store at what you would consider a "fair price"?

If the phone is unlocked, you can expect the price to be bumped up by $200-$300.

peestandingup
Jan 9, 2007, 01:20 AM
Hahahah you have drawn all those conclusions and Apple hasnt even announced any details yet?
True, but the WSJ is hardly ever wrong about this stuff. And it being within hours of the keynote, seems pretty likely.

Hopefully, someone messed up at the WSJ & Apple will go the other way.

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 01:24 AM
The problem with cellphones is: they don't sell unless they're offered together with a carrier-contract that allows for the phone to be sold at a significantly lower price. Hardly anyone ever pays full price for a phone because we have gotten used to prices in the 200$ range while the phones actually cost 4 to 5 times as much in the open market. If Apple decided to sell the phones directly, only enthusiasts would buy - but Apple wants to reach a mass-market that doesn't check apple.com every 5 minutes.
So I'm pretty sure the Cingular thing is true - which leaves me very much disappointed as I don't live in the US. It wouldn't be the first time Apple treats European customers as second-class citizens. Actually - this happens with almost every other product they offer. Don't know why I keep on buying from them, actually - as Apple clearly doesn't care about the European market even though they have a much larger market share here then they do in the US. Obviously, they can afford to ignore us.
I suspect that eventually an unlocked phone (with a correspondingly higher price) will be offered in the EU, but probably not right away. This will likely be a staged introduction, much like iTunes, since carriers and coverage vary from country to country.

Merlyn3D
Jan 9, 2007, 01:25 AM
I had an interesting conversation with my Cingular rep (the one able to deal with internet access issues). He stated Edge was slower than the other networks out there (Sprint commercial rteinforces that). But one wonders if Cingular has another deployment planned to attract Apple. Apple tends to adopt things before they are really ripe.

Wi-Max as the backup plan?

Rocketman

Um....so far, Sprint's the only one who's firmly commited to deploying WiMax in the future.

guifa
Jan 9, 2007, 01:25 AM
They have to unlock the phone! Wasn't some legislation passed for that recently. It'll cost you though.
T-Mobile USA will unlock any phone for free, you just have to call them up for the code (for one reason or another, the representative didn't have a code available immediately for my latest phone, but offered to call me on my schedule when it came in, and sure enough she did). All you need is a non-T-Mobile SIM card, which they generally suggest to use a friend's Cingular, but for me since I had a left-over Telefonica card from Spain I used that. But yeah, didn't cost a dime. Iif Cingular is charging to unlock that's kind of sleazy.

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 01:30 AM
I suspect that eventually an unlocked phone (with a correspondingly higher price) will be offered in the EU, but probably not right away. This will likely be a staged introduction, much like iTunes, since carriers and coverage vary from country to country.

yeah, this is very likely going to happen. But it's small comfort. Imagine Apple had introduced their music store in Europe first and US citizens had to wait for two years to get their own. All US citizens, except for those living in California who have two wait a year longer because Apple decided that California isn't important enough a market.
That's exactly what Apple did over here. Come on - we're not the third world here. The EU has 450 million citizens. Switzerland (albeit not part of the EU) is one of the richest countries in the world. Still, we're obviously not worth it.

peestandingup
Jan 9, 2007, 01:30 AM
I seriously doubt that it's going to be "just like any other phone". And Apple has to compete in an environment in which most comparable devices are not unlocked, and their price is subsidized by the contracts attached to them. Have you ever seen an unlocked phone in a retail store at what you would consider a "fair price"?

If the phone is unlocked, you can expect the price to be bumped up by $200-$300.
Exactly. It will be more than just another phone, which is why it should be sold as a media device through Apple & NOT through Cingular.

Its my impression that anything branded Apple should be sold through the Apple stores. And if this is the case with this "phone" being offered by Cingular, it will be the first time (to my knowledge) that anything made directly by Apple won't be sold through their stores.

What if people hate Cingular but love Apple? Are those people just screwed?? Better yet, we will have to pay up the butt for the phone & have to deal with 3rd parties/eBay to get the device. Sucks. It just takes away from the experience.

I don't wanna see the "iPhone" being advertised by ***** Cingular Wireless.

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 01:34 AM
T-Mobile USA will unlock any phone for free, you just have to call them up for the code (for one reason or another, the representative didn't have a code available immediately for my latest phone, but offered to call me on my schedule when it came in, and sure enough she did). All you need is a non-T-Mobile SIM card, which they generally suggest to use a friend's Cingular, but for me since I had a left-over Telefonica card from Spain I used that. But yeah, didn't cost a dime. Iif Cingular is charging to unlock that's kind of sleazy.
T-Mobile may unlock a phone for you, but if you bought the phone at a discounted price linked to a contract, you will have to pay out the contract. If cell service providers had to let consumers out of contracts without penalty, they would go out of business offering free phones to consumers.

mattster16
Jan 9, 2007, 01:37 AM
MacDailyNews - December 13, 2006

Guglielmo reports, "To operate as a mobile virtual network operator, or MVNO, Apple may partner with Cingular Wireless LLC to provide wireless service for a so-called iPhone, Benjamin Reitzes, a UBS analyst in New York, said today in a note."

"An MVNO model would allow Apple to have total control over the user experience, which is something [UBS] cannot imagine Steve Jobs relinquishing by allowing just about anyone to sell his phone," Notable Calls reports.

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/11934/

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 01:39 AM
Exactly. It will be more than just another phone, which is why it should be sold as a media device through Apple & NOT through Cingular.

Its my impression that anything branded Apple should be sold through the Apple stores. And if this is the case with this "phone" being offered by Cingular, it will be the first time (to my knowledge) that anything made directly by Apple won't be sold through their stores.

What if people hate Cingular but love Apple? Are those people just screwed?? Better yet, we will have to pay up the butt for the phone & have to deal with 3rd parties/eBay to get the device. Sucks. It just takes away from the experience.

I don't wanna see the "iPhone" being advertised by ***** Cingular Wireless.
Apple does like to control the entire process. That's why I think Apple will become an MVNO, purchasing blocks of service from Cingular. You will get the phone at the Apple store, you will sign a service contract with Apple, and Apple will then use the Cingular network time it has purchased to provide your service.

guifa
Jan 9, 2007, 01:42 AM
T-Mobile may unlock a phone for you, but if you bought the phone at a discounted price linked to a contract, you will have to pay out the contract. If cell service providers had to let consumers out of contracts without penalty, they would go out of business offering free phones to consumers.
No, you only pay out the contract if you want out of the contract. You don't have to get out of your contract to have a phone unlocked, there are many reasons to unlock whilst staying with your company. In my case, going abroad it makes little sense to pay international roaming when I can (for much less) just purchase a local pay-as-I-go SIM card and switch it out. Especially since that way if someone needs to call me I don't get charged for the call since the US seems to be the only country where both caller and callee are charged for calls.

I think if Apple releases a phone (which I'm still rather sceptical of, Jobs knows hinting about it will bring a lot of hype to the show) that it could be released under different tiers. That is, Europe would almost certainly have it stand-alone, whilst in America it might only be available, barring importing, via a single provider. But they might offer the two different pricing models in the US for those of us that aren't on Cingular or whichever network they choose. But I agree it will be a GSM based phone but hopefully tri/quad band. I highly doubt Apple would be an MVNO though, in this case I don't think Apple would like having to rely on another company has extremely heavily as they do. I know Akamai used to be a big partner and still is to an extent for internet streaming, but it's not as absolutely mandatory a relationship as Apple would need as an MVNO with the service provider. They'd have better control over their phone by just having it bluetooth sync with a Mac.

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 01:45 AM
No, you only pay out the contract if you want out of the contract. You don't have to get out of your contract to have a phone unlocked, there are many reasons to unlock whilst staying with your company. In my case, going abroad it makes little sense to pay international roaming when I can (for much less) just purchase a local pay-as-I-go SIM card and switch it out. Especially since that way if someone needs to call me I don't get charged for the call since the US seems to be the only country where both caller and callee are charged for calls.
By "pay out" I mean that you have to finish all of the payments you have committed to, not necessarily make a block payment. I was trying to state that you can't just have your phone unlocked and then stop making the payments in your contract. Nor can you say "I'm switching to another provider, so I'll just pay them for service". When you sign a contract to purchase a phone, you are committed to making all of the payments in that contract, whether your phone is unlocked or not.

guifa
Jan 9, 2007, 01:51 AM
By "pay out" I mean that you have to finish all of the payments you have committed to, not necessarily make a block payment. I was trying to state that you can't just have your phone unlocked and then stop making the payments in your contract. Nor can you say "I'm switching to another provider, so I'll just pay them for service". When you sign a contract to purchase a phone, you are committed to making all of the payments in that contract, whether your phone is unlocked or not.
Well yeah, that's what was in the contract :) I was simply saying that you don't have to pay extra to unlock a phone with T-Mobile, because earlier in the thread it mentioned that with Cingular one must pay extra (as I understood, that meant over the base contract).

technicolor
Jan 9, 2007, 01:55 AM
yeah, this is very likely going to happen. But it's small comfort. Imagine Apple had introduced their music store in Europe first and US citizens had to wait for two years to get their own. All US citizens, except for those living in California who have two wait a year longer because Apple decided that California isn't important enough a market.
That's exactly what Apple did over here. Come on - we're not the third world here. The EU has 450 million citizens. Switzerland (albeit not part of the EU) is one of the richest countries in the world. Still, we're obviously not worth it. Europe is a continent not a country.

SpaceJello
Jan 9, 2007, 01:55 AM
I am on cingular and I can't wait for an apple phone if it is anything it promises to be. Heck, I can't stand any of the current phone UIs. I seriously wonder if any companies actually even spend money in hiring industrial designers and not engineers only.

With that said, I would hope that the partnership if there is one between Cingular and Apple wouldn't be having the phone being sold exclusively through Cingular initially if at all. That would be stupid for Apple to limit its own market. I hope that it goes on to be like Virgin or something.

guifa
Jan 9, 2007, 01:59 AM
Europe is a continent not a country.
He never said it was. Though I don't think he has much to worry. Whereas the music store was caused by tons of annoying licensing issues, even IF Apple decided to sell the iPhone only in the US, if it was SIM-card and GSM-based, then anyone getting a hold of an unlocked version of the phone could use it anywhere in Europe. For that simple reason it makes no sense not to sell it wherever it could be used.

Donz0r
Jan 9, 2007, 02:02 AM
yeah, this is very likely going to happen. But it's small comfort. Imagine Apple had introduced their music store in Europe first and US citizens had to wait for two years to get their own. All US citizens, except for those living in California who have two wait a year longer because Apple decided that California isn't important enough a market.
That's exactly what Apple did over here. Come on - we're not the third world here. The EU has 450 million citizens. Switzerland (albeit not part of the EU) is one of the richest countries in the world. Still, we're obviously not worth it.

And what country is Apple in? Would it be so crazy for an American company to sell its goods to Americans primarily? I bet it's a lot easier to get swiss chocolate in Switzerland (or any other Swiss-Made good), than it is in the USA. Woah, we get first dibs on our companies' products too!

imacdaddy
Jan 9, 2007, 02:04 AM
Apple does like to control the entire process. That's why I think Apple will become an MVNO, purchasing blocks of service from Cingular. You will get the phone at the Apple store, you will sign a service contract with Apple, and Apple will then use the Cingular network time it has purchased to provide your service.

That's where you are wrong my friend! They will not become an MVNO. What is the reasoning? How would they set this up for NON-US customers??? They will have to invest in overhead (billing, credits & collections etc.) and billing system. All of this cost for mobile carrier capacity and SG&A will impact their bottom line....and it's not worth their while.

C'mon, people try not to be so us-centric for once.

Donz0r
Jan 9, 2007, 02:06 AM
Exactly. It will be more than just another phone, which is why it should be sold as a media device through Apple & NOT through Cingular.

Its my impression that anything branded Apple should be sold through the Apple stores. And if this is the case with this "phone" being offered by Cingular, it will be the first time (to my knowledge) that anything made directly by Apple won't be sold through their stores.

What if people hate Cingular but love Apple? Are those people just screwed?? Better yet, we will have to pay up the butt for the phone & have to deal with 3rd parties/eBay to get the device. Sucks. It just takes away from the experience.

I don't wanna see the "iPhone" being advertised by ***** Cingular Wireless.

...you obviously don't have Cingular ;)
Neither do I, actually my Verizon contract just ended last week, so I'm good. But seriously, it sucks for You, sorry but the partnership makes sense, this is a cellphone, not an iPod. And in America, people buy cell phones from phone companies and most of them don't have a clue what GSM/CDMA/Unlocking means, they just want a good phone for a reasonable price.
They have to partner up with someone considering the american cell phone market, I'm dreadfully sorry it wasn't Your carrier, you win some, you lose some (However more people will win because cingular hast he most customers...)

kenaustus
Jan 9, 2007, 02:06 AM
I think most of us can relax a bit re Cingular, GSM/CDMA, etc.

1. I would be very surprised if the iPhone was NOT available from Apple in their stores or on their site. It's going to have GSM capabilities so you'll be able to drop your SIM card in and go.

2. US only for now because of very limited supplies. Look for international expansion as soon as supplies are available and any regulatory requirements.

3. Don't expect any super discounts for a lifetime contract. I think the price on the phone will be the same in Cingular stores as it is in the Apple Store. Apple doesn't want the iPod brand hurt by carrier discounts.

4. Look at the price of the iPhone as the cost of an iPod + phone and you can see that a lot of people will buy it.

5. Most important is to look for Apple to require that Cingular and other carriers keep the Apple menus - none of the carrier's FUBAR menus.

6. Look for a very long back order very shortly after the announcement. The iPhone is going to be a hot seller.

7. Look to the first iPhone to have 4-8 Gb of Flash and the second version to have a HD.

Hombre
Jan 9, 2007, 02:09 AM
My Opinion is that only one iPod like thing will be at MacWorld -

Either the next-gen iPod video or the iPhone,


I expect the new Phone to be a whole new product which will be able to playback some songs, but won't be a full featured iPod.

Hombre
Jan 9, 2007, 02:13 AM
Europe is a continent not a country.

But the EU is a free market. Economically it makes sense to see it as an entity. The problem is, that the music companies are still a bit behind in dividing the EU into different markets.

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 02:16 AM
And what country is Apple in? Would it be so crazy for an American company to sell its goods to Americans primarily? I bet it's a lot easier to get swiss chocolate in Switzerland (or any other Swiss-Made good), than it is in the USA. Woah, we get first dibs on our companies' products too!

Ok, so Novartis is a Swiss company. Let's a assume a flu pandemic hits the world and Novartis is the only company that has the vaccine. I'm sure you agree that as a Swiss company Novartis has the right to produce the flu shots only for Swiss citizens, I mean - the rest of the world can wait a couple of months, right?. We get first dibs on our companies' products, don't you agree?

Anyway, that was an extreme example - but I'm sure it proves my point: Apple is an INTERNATIONAL company that happens to have its headquarters in the US.

bigjohn
Jan 9, 2007, 02:20 AM
my credit card is ready and waiting to order an iPhone.... I really really hope this is true

same here

:)

Gamdoan
Jan 9, 2007, 02:22 AM
If Apple goes Cingular, they will never make a sale in South Dakota (where I live) because Cingular hasn't yet ventured into our land. Unfortunately.

Although I am pleased with my Alltel service.

technicolor
Jan 9, 2007, 02:27 AM
If Apple goes Cingular, they will never make a sale in South Dakota (where I live) because Cingular hasn't yet ventured into our land. Unfortunately.

Although I am pleased with my Alltel service.
And Im sure that scares Apple sh**less, no sales in south dakota!:eek:








:D

Philsy
Jan 9, 2007, 02:32 AM
Oh no, this has turned into yet another boring thread about the inadequate US phone networks. :mad:

Why can't Apple just offer it through all the networks? That's how it would work in the rest of the world.

kucchi
Jan 9, 2007, 02:35 AM
Guys,

the iPhone is coming today! According to the german daily newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung" which has I guess some good sources within Apple Germany, as both are located in Munich.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/computer/artikel/836/96740/


"Ursprünglich habe Apple das Gerät zu Weihnachten in die Läden bringen wollen, berichtet ein Branchenkenner, der ungenannt bleiben möchte. Er selbst habe das iPod-Handy bereits in der Hand gehalten, sei aber zum Stillschweigen verpflichtet. Er erwartet eine Vorstellung des Gerätes zur MacWorld. "

Translation:
"Apple had intended to have the phone ready before Christmas, an insider who wants to remain anonymous reported. He himself already held the iPod- cellphone in his hands but was bound to secrecy. He is expecting a presentation of the device at MacWorld"

ipearx
Jan 9, 2007, 02:39 AM
Surely a WiFi phone makes sense:
http://bla.st/site/blog/36/

http://bla.st/mac-software/

SeaFox
Jan 9, 2007, 02:40 AM
Guys,

the iPhone is coming today! According to the german daily newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung" which has I guess some good sources within Apple Germany, as both are located in Munich.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/computer/artikel/836/96740/


"Ursprünglich habe Apple das Gerät zu Weihnachten in die Läden bringen wollen, berichtet ein Branchenkenner, der ungenannt bleiben möchte. Er selbst habe das iPod-Handy bereits in der Hand gehalten, sei aber zum Stillschweigen verpflichtet. Er erwartet eine Vorstellung des Gerätes zur MacWorld. "

Meanwhile, on the ENGLISH-speaking MacRumors forum...

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 02:43 AM
the iPhone is coming today! According to the german daily newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung" which has I guess some good sources within Apple Germany, as both are located in Munich.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/computer/artikel/836/96740/


and while the source doesn't want to talk about phone features, it pretty much acknowledges that the device will simply be a phone with an integrated iPod and not a smartphone / PDA and is thus doomed from the beginning. Pretty much every phone on the planet is able to play MP3 music already. Haven't they learned anything from the ROKR debacle?

MacinDoc
Jan 9, 2007, 02:46 AM
That's where you are wrong my friend! They will not become an MVNO. What is the reasoning? How would they set this up for NON-US customers??? They will have to invest in overhead (billing, credits & collections etc.) and billing system. All of this cost for mobile carrier capacity and SG&A will impact their bottom line....and it's not worth their while.

C'mon, people try not to be so us-centric for once.
I'm not US-centric, I live in Canada!

But I think Apple is going with Cingular in the U.S. because it is GSM. Other GSM networks around the world can be added, and this is why the introduction will likely be staggered in different markets. Anyway, if Apple just goes with Cingular service and does not become an MVNO (remember, it has already been reported by reliable sources that Cingular will be Apple's service provider for the phone), that still does not help non-U.S customers. Now, if Apple becomes an international MVNO by buying services from GSM providers in the countries where it offers its own service, then it can eventually provide customers with seamless international service. It just won't all happen at once.

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 02:47 AM
"Ursprünglich habe Apple das Gerät zu Weihnachten in die Läden bringen wollen, berichtet ein Branchenkenner, der ungenannt bleiben möchte. Er selbst habe das iPod-Handy bereits in der Hand gehalten, sei aber zum Stillschweigen verpflichtet. Er erwartet eine Vorstellung des Gerätes zur MacWorld. "

"Apple had intended to have the phone ready before Christmas, an insider, who wants to remain anonymous, reported. He himself already held the iPod- cellphone in his hands but was bound to secrecy. He is expecting the device to be presented at MacWorld"

SeaFox
Jan 9, 2007, 02:49 AM
Oh no, this has turned into yet another boring thread about the inadequate US phone networks. :mad:
And it could have all been avoided had Apple just sold their phone through their own stores...

Why can't Apple just offer it through all the networks? That's how it would work in the rest of the world.

I assume you mean "on their own" and not selling it through all carriers simultaneously. The reason is because American cell phone service and the companies that provide it are a**-backwards and greedy. They would all refuse to sell the Apple Phone unless they were blessed to be the sole carrier of the Apple Phone, and they got to put their brand name on it somewhere, so even when you're phone was turned off you would be their advertisement and everyone would know who your carrier was.

And they wouldn't be scared that by setting this stance they would be left out while all the other carriers cooperated and reaped the Apple Phone buying storm. Because wireless carriers are like insurance companies and airlines, they all get together in meetings and collude on how they will conduct business. So if one carrier said "No" to sharing the Apple Phone, they can be assured everyone else will also say "no" and force Apple into picking one of them to get exclusivity for the device.

kucchi
Jan 9, 2007, 02:54 AM
"Apple had intended to have the phone ready before Christmas, an insider who wants to remain anonymous reported. He himself already held the iPod- cellphone in his hands but was bound to secrecy. He is expecting a presentation of the device at MacWorld"

Danke! :)

mikeh123
Jan 9, 2007, 02:55 AM
Well the main point to this thread is whether or not the phone will appear.

I am very much looking forward to such a device and will be really interested to see it's design, usability and features.

I don't care if it "may be on cingular" and we can debate that if and when it does get announced. Fortunately it will not be an arguement I will engage or care in as I live in the UK so it will go onto all the major carriers and / or be sold as a device with no bound carrier.

This may well be a great chance for Apple to really stamp their print with high market visibility (in a similar way to the ipod - without the high market share) .

Lets hope there are some great new announcements today at the show and the products actually live up to the billing.

Hallo
Jan 9, 2007, 03:03 AM
I have a nasty feeling the rest of the world (outside the U.S.) will be waiting a loooong time for this to arrive :(

mikeh123
Jan 9, 2007, 03:07 AM
I have a nasty feeling the rest of the world (outside the U.S.) will be waiting a loooong time for this to arrive

I dont - It will be reasonably quick - look at history in both markets Apple and phones. rest of the world does pretty well :)

emotion
Jan 9, 2007, 03:10 AM
I have a nasty feeling the rest of the world (outside the U.S.) will be waiting a loooong time for this to arrive :(


Apple can't afford for this to happen. The device will fail if it does.

...8 hrs to go.

poppe
Jan 9, 2007, 03:19 AM
I've always dreamed about a great cellphone by Apple, however I know the realities of the wireless industry, and frankly I'm wary of Apple entering this market. Why? Just read this forum post, that should be reason enough. Let's take some examples here:

1. Apple goes with Cingular
You get people (like on this forum) that will whine and moan about going with Cingular, because how crappy their customer service is or their service in general. Or, you'll get people who complain because their with Verizon Wireless or Sprint b/c their network is CDMA.

2. Apple goes with Verizon or Sprint
Same thing, people complain about customer service or service. People complain because their on Cingular, T-Mobile, etc.

These are just *some* of the reasons why I'm not in favor of Apple going into this market. The wireless industry is extremely cutthroat as well as draconian as hell. With this WSJ report alone, why would Apple want to associate itself with a company with a *TERRIBLE* reputation with customer service? Even on the flip side (VZW or Sprint), the picture doesn't look good as well. You immediately split your market. You compete with other phones that are with completely different providers. So, not only do you have to get them to switch phones and buy yours (yours meaning Apple), but you *ALSO* have to get them to switch services. This is *NOT* like selling a Mac, iPod, or whatever.

I really hope Apple has something "up their sleeves" to at least address *some* of these problems. I personally absolutely DESPISE the wireless industry, but (unfortunately) my job depends on using cellphones. I can't get around that. I just hope Apple can give a phone for everyone and truly revolutionize this horrid industry.

w00master

Well here's the big down side to MVNO:

Service Plans, and mobile to mobile. These are questions i'll be really concerned about. For example is it only apple's service that does mobile to mobile meaning that an apple phone can't call cingular without using minutes because while there will be alot with the iPhone not a lot will have it at the same time.

Second service plans. Will apple be able to rent Cingular's network or what ever it is doing and be able to offer competitive plans? Like I have unlimited internet/text for 15 a month. Not to shabby. Will Apple be able to compete since it doesn't have its own network?

Also I have to wonder if alot of people will truly get the phone if they don't offer outstanding service. Yes an Apple phone would be awesome but honestly I won't leave Sprint or any provider I'm with if I'm not getting the best I can' get for my dollar, phone or not. If I wanted the snazy new crap I'd be on cingular and I'd be buying unlocked European phones.

imacdaddy
Jan 9, 2007, 03:20 AM
Now, if Apple becomes an international MVNO by buying services from GSM providers in the countries where it offers its own service, then it can eventually provide customers with seamless international service. It just won't all happen at once.

It's not as easy as it looks. Apple would need a pay for licenses to operate and sell mobile/voice/data services in certain countries and in countries where they cannot, they would need to partner with the local telecom provider. It's just too complicated and complex to go through the legalities with the local government and local telco. Furthermore, the roadmap to become an international MVNO will take too long which will definately hurt their sales.

Finally, most telcos don't wholesale their mobile service. Especially in a case like this if they see Apple as a competitor with "disruptive" technology (VoIP, Video Conference etc.).

iSplode
Jan 9, 2007, 03:22 AM
I really hope all this hype isn't just for an Apple cellphone. We didn't wait 30 years for that!! Besides, if it won't work internationally, it will fail, and Cingular is not international (because they are greedy dundering fools).

The Wall Street Journal completely overlooked the real buzzworthy item in the Keynote speech tomorrow: iPod Socks 2.0!

emotion
Jan 9, 2007, 03:26 AM
So maybe the iPod Phone is actually just an ipod nano and wifi phone combined. There's a sim slot so you an go with your existing carriers sim (avoiding the whole carrier issue for the moment) but it's not essential for the device to work.

...7 1/2 hours to go :)

mattster16
Jan 9, 2007, 03:33 AM
That's where you are wrong my friend! They will not become an MVNO. What is the reasoning? How would they set this up for NON-US customers??? They will have to invest in overhead (billing, credits & collections etc.) and billing system. All of this cost for mobile carrier capacity and SG&A will impact their bottom line....and it's not worth their while.

C'mon, people try not to be so us-centric for once.

I always assumed Apple already has billing, credit, and collections systems in place. Granted they would have to expand on this and the system would need to be much more elaborate. They would only need to expand as quickly as they gain new customers. They don't need a Verizon sized billing department when they are first starting out.

It would all depend on how the MVNO was implemented. Would it be Apple just reselling airtime or would it be more of an 'invisible to the consumer' partnership between Apple and Cingular where Cingular would handle these things under the Apple Wireless name? Who knows.

I guess we will see tomorrow. It just seems so un-apple like to go with a current cell provider. Confusing pricing schemes, crippled features, a lack of integration. Everyone knows cellphone companies frequently anger people and are complicated. Jobs does not want the Apple brand name associated with all that complexity and negativity.

An MVNO would be a HUGE business venture and undertaking, I wonder if Apple has the audacity to do it??

I guess we'll see in short time.

Also, why would a phone fail if it isn't international? This makes no sense at all. It limits to a smaller market but does not guarantee failure. Anyways, the US already doesn't have as nice of phones as other countries. :( The iPod was initially only available for Macs even though it was a very small market and it wasn't a 'failure'.

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 03:39 AM
I always assumed Apple already has billing, credit, and collections systems in place.


They could go pre-paid and sell air-time and/or data packages through the iTunes store.

ps: I miss Minnesota, how's the weather this winter?

Sabenth
Jan 9, 2007, 03:46 AM
Well have to agree with the guys from the uk dont think its gona make much difrance to us out here.. Either vodaphone will get it as a carrier exclusive or Carphone warehouse will have it as an exclusive as a phone u can buy out right .....


Now what soding goodies will it have thats what i want to know

lorien
Jan 9, 2007, 03:55 AM
I really hope all this hype isn't just for an Apple cellphone. We didn't wait 30 years for that!! Besides, if it won't work internationally, it will fail, and Cingular is not international (because they are greedy dundering fools).

What exactly DID we wait 30 years for? I don't know, but Steve does ;)

iSplode
Jan 9, 2007, 04:01 AM
What exactly DID we wait 30 years for?

iRobot from Apple. It's time to make the Jetson's a reality.

emotion
Jan 9, 2007, 04:19 AM
Well have to agree with the guys from the uk dont think its gona make much difrance to us out here.. Either vodaphone will get it as a carrier exclusive or Carphone warehouse will have it as an exclusive as a phone u can buy out right .....


Now what soding goodies will it have thats what i want to know

Hmmm, well.

- not enough storage (8GB)
- low magapixel camera (1.3M)
- slow network access (no HSDPA)
- small screen
- too expensive

BUT, really well integrated into OSX and a nifty interface. :)

We'll see how close I am to the mark this afternoon (morning for you us-centrics ;) ).

emotion
Jan 9, 2007, 04:22 AM
Also, why would a phone fail if it isn't international? This makes no sense at all. It limits to a smaller market but does not guarantee failure. Anyways, the US already doesn't have as nice of phones as other countries. :( The iPod was initially only available for Macs even though it was a very small market and it wasn't a 'failure'.

The mobile phone market is insanely competitive. Way more so than any mp3 player market. If this isn't international then Apple are much more likely to lose out.

I expect a slight delay in getting it to territories other than the US but anything more than that jeopardises chances of success imo.

yagran
Jan 9, 2007, 04:37 AM
err hello i live in the uk! theres no such thing as cingular or verizon over here! what the hellam i gunna do!?!?!? we dont have the same range of phones as you..i.e. we have never seen the sidekick here! although we had te razr first:p if apple dont release this unlocked im gunna do some apple bashing.

emotion
Jan 9, 2007, 04:45 AM
err hello i live in the uk! theres no such thing as cingular or verizon over here! what the hellam i gunna do!?!?!? we dont have the same range of phones as you..i.e. we have never seen the sidekick here! although we had te razr first:p if apple dont release this unlocked im gunna do some apple bashing.


We get quite a few phones before the US market does (sometimes not, like the Samsung Blackjack and that's down to a Cingular tie in, I digress but I was hoping Apple might step outside that kind of thing).

A part of me (the part who can afford a 200 quid phone) wants unlocked Apple phones. The other part of me (that would like to see Apple make a success of selling these things) looks at the "cost" of a SE k800i ie. 'free' and thinks Apple _has_ to go the carrier subsidised route to compete on the same terms as the competition.


If Apple do decide unlocked is the way then they'll have to market these as iPods that just happen to be phones too, surely (to justify the price). Otherwise people will just go with whatever they can get that is 'free'.

Poff
Jan 9, 2007, 04:47 AM
Hmmm, well.

- not enough storage (8GB)
- low magapixel camera (1.3M)
- slow network access (no HSDPA)
- small screen
- too expensive

BUT, really well integrated into OSX and a nifty interface. :)

We'll see how close I am to the mark this afternoon (morning for you us-centrics ;) ).

I think you're right.. And it will probably sell like hotcakes too.. :D

emotion
Jan 9, 2007, 04:52 AM
I think you're right.. And it will probably sell like hotcakes too.. :D

I forgot that bit. :)

See, iPods aren't the most featureful mp3 players out there but it's all about the 'experience'. Apple are likely to do this with the phone too. The margins are bigger for a start... :)

yagran
Jan 9, 2007, 04:53 AM
i have like £220 in my bank... what do you let think that will get me? the low model iphone?

emotion
Jan 9, 2007, 05:00 AM
i have like £220 in my bank... what do you let think that will get me? the low model iphone?

It won't be called iPhone.

So if I'm right and it's an iPod Phone loosely based on the Nano. Then I'd expect that kinda pricing for the 4GB (maybe 8GB) version.

We're wildly stabbing in the dark now though aren't we? :)

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 05:03 AM
i have like £220 in my bank... what do you let think that will get me? the low model iphone?

hard to say - in a couple of months, when the phone will be available in Europe, you might get an unlocked iPhone for that money. I doubt there'll be more than one version of each model, but I'm still hoping there's going to be a "pro" model with a PDA part.

boss1
Jan 9, 2007, 05:20 AM
Not asking the right questions, well at least most of you. Some here have hinted at the right questions, yet most are just going back on forth on coverage areas and comparing/complaining about service provider customer service.

IF Cingular turns out to be the exclusive provider of service for Apple's phone then one has to wonder why Cingular? The answer may be more than just then just the GSM aspect of it. If it's true that Apple does not want to subsidize the cost of the phone to keep the Apple brand respectable then why offer exclusivity to any single service provider at all?

Some speculative reasons:
1. Pricing of features that are unique to the Apple phone or that Apple wants control of. Pretend for a moment the phone is capable of downloading music, sending and receiving video/audio/data etc. Yes those types of services are provided by a plethora of carriers but if a carrier offers the Apple phone as a product then Apple won't want it to fall prey to whatever ungodly pricing each carrier decides to tax it's customers. Apple may even have managed to strike price points and free to customer services subscribe with an Apple phone. Keep in mind the only reason I can possibly see Cingular submitting to such a deal favored toward Apple would be if they were allowed exclusivity in exchange.

2. What about .Mac? those familiar with how Blackberry (at least how at works at sprint/nextel) know very well that while the cellular service is provided by the carrier, email is provided via Blackberry and theres a price each customer pays for that service that appears on your sprint/nextel bill. Even though the money is paid to Blackberry. If the Apple phone works with .Mac and allows you to send and receive your @mac email through the .Mac servers you would not be charged an ungodly amount of money for each email you send and receive....the catch again is that Apple has to make sort of compromise. The only one I can for see at the moment is exclusivity.

I'm sure theres a few other good reasons I can't think of at the moment. All that said, Sure I'm praying Apple does sell an unlocked version I can use with T Mobile..after all it is GSM. The big elephant in the back of mind is however, will any random GSM provider mvno be even able to provide email service through .Mac servers?

So if Cingular is the exclusive carrier then an unlocked version of the phone is there for plausible however there may be some drawbacks in terms of some features may only be available through Cingular or at least some features that may be free (or very low cost) through Cingular.

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2007, 05:22 AM
Instead of constantly whining and moaning about Cingular, just buy the phone unlocked and use it with any operator you prefer! Sheesh!

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 05:26 AM
with T Mobile..after all it is GSM. The big elephant in the back of mind is however, will any random GSM provider mvno be even able to provide email service through .Mac servers?


Unless the carrier deliberately blocks the servers, that shouldn't be a problem.
I have a normal data plan for my HSDPA phone, allowing me to transfer 2gb of internet data per month. My carrier doesn't care where the volume goes - I've never encountered a problem with a server because it was blocked. I can even use Skype on it etc.

boss1
Jan 9, 2007, 05:27 AM
Instead of constantly whining and moaning about Cingular, just buy the phone unlocked and use it with any operator you prefer! Sheesh!

I sadly confident there may be a non monetary price to pay for an unlocked version. Availability of certain features.

boss1
Jan 9, 2007, 05:29 AM
Unless the carrier deliberately blocks the servers, that shouldn't be a problem.
I have a normal data plan for my HSDPA phone, allowing me to transfer 2gb of internet data per month. My carrier doesn't care where the volume goes - I've never encountered a problem with a server because it was blocked. I can even use Skype on it etc.


LoL.. you must be from europe . damn u!

Avicdar
Jan 9, 2007, 05:32 AM
I sadly confident there may be a non monetary price to pay for an unlocked version. Availability of certain features.

Not a chance.

Apple isn't going to produce a phone with a feature set that is only available through a single US based carrier.

boss1
Jan 9, 2007, 05:36 AM
Not a chance.

Apple isn't going to produce a phone with a feature set that is only available through a single US based carrier.


I'm not saying it's going to be this way for eternity. I'm just thinking it may be this way until Apple can manage to strike deals with other carriers in a similar fashion that RIM Blackberry had to go through, one carrier at a time.

pkis
Jan 9, 2007, 05:39 AM
LoL.. you must be from europe . damn u!

well, thank you :-) why, is the situation that bad with US carriers? I (truly) didn't know that

Avicdar
Jan 9, 2007, 05:43 AM
I'm not saying it's going to be this way for eternity. I'm just thinking it may be this way until Apple can manage to strike deals with other carriers in a similar fashion that RIM Blackberry had to go through, one carrier at a time.

I hear you, but I just don't think thats apples 'way'. Steve having to deal with dozens of providers just to get his features to different markets?

Nah.

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2007, 05:44 AM
That said if the phone doesn't come in two models CDMA and GSM then there will be no purchase buy me

Offering both CDMA and GSM would be dumb. Twice the regulatory hassle. Why offer CDMA when GSM is the global standard? Just about only ones using CDMA are few Americans, everyone else is on GSM.

unregbaron
Jan 9, 2007, 05:46 AM
What I'd dream we'll get is something like this on an ipod device:

Free unlimited internet/skype access + slingbox/IM stuff which I'm less bothered about.

Currently offered by these guys:
http://www.three.co.uk/xseries

Excellent business email support as with the Nokia E61:
http://europe.nokia.com/A4142101

lorien
Jan 9, 2007, 05:47 AM
I'm not saying it's going to be this way for eternity. I'm just thinking it may be this way until Apple can manage to strike deals with other carriers in a similar fashion that RIM Blackberry had to go through, one carrier at a time.

Much easier to do both really: Apple could sell the phone unlocked on the online apple store worldwide, then you just buy a sim card wherever you are, AND, for those people who want a price reduction and dont mind signing up with a mobile carrier, Apple can sell their phones through carriers too. In Scandinavia you can buy most phones either unlocked or with carrier contracts. Surely versatility is the best market strategy what with cutthroat competition and unknown territory for Apple.
Still hoping for a video iPod instead ;)

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2007, 05:49 AM
I sadly confident there may be a non monetary price to pay for an unlocked version. Availability of certain features.

Very unlikely. In fact, I bet if there's any difference in features, it would be the operator-supplied phone that would be crippled. I have heard people in USA complain that operators cripple Bluetooth-features (for example) in the phones. Idea being that when they prevent users from transmitting data locally to the phone, they force them to use operators data-service which brings them money. Operator does not earn one cent if you transmit ringtones to your phone vie Bluetooth. They do earn big bucks if you use their ringtone-service to get those ringtones.

macjackpro
Jan 9, 2007, 06:02 AM
I have Cingular and a Treo 650, and my wife has a samsung phone with UMTS. The reception of the Treo is excellent. The samsung, not good at all. Both phones have decent data speeds. Unlimited data for 40 US. IF the apple phone is on cingular then it is up to apple to provide good phone reception like the treo. As long as the phone has a browser you can use dotmac. My wife hate's her samsung phone. If the apple phone comes out I'm the first one in line to buy it for her.





So if Cingular is the exclusive carrier then an unlocked version of the phone is there for plausible however there may be some drawbacks in terms of some features may only be available through Cingular or at least some features that may be free (or very low cost) through Cingular.

Compile 'em all
Jan 9, 2007, 06:07 AM
Much easier to do both really: Apple could sell the phone unlocked on the online apple store worldwide, then you just buy a sim card wherever you are, AND, for those people who want a price reduction and dont mind signing up with a mobile carrier, Apple can sell their phones through carriers too. In Scandinavia you can buy most phones either unlocked or with carrier contracts. Surely versatility is the best market strategy what with cutthroat competition and unknown territory for Apple.


Ditto that. 100% correct and that is what's gonna happen (in 5 hrs :D).

palhen
Jan 9, 2007, 06:24 AM
Why?, because imagine all of Europe (the delayed market?) stalling their iPod purchases, waiting for the iPod Phone instead... Apple cannot afford to have different release dates. As somebody pointed out, Apple is an international company on an international market.

And for you, hoping for a very special device, dream-up-PDA-stuff or something, the iPod Phone will offer one 'feature' that no other phone offer today. Play back of songs bought from Itunes (not counting that Motorola thing...). And as there are a few more than a billion songs sold there, the market for such a feature could be quit good.

Henrik

Stella
Jan 9, 2007, 06:25 AM
Offering both CDMA and GSM would be dumb. Twice the regulatory hassle. Why offer CDMA when GSM is the global standard? Just about only ones using CDMA are few Americans, everyone else is on GSM.

Don't forget about the Canadians on Telus and Bell!!

There is no way this phone will be exclusive. You'll be able to buy it from Apple Store - IF this is a true Apple manufactured phone.

Ted13
Jan 9, 2007, 06:29 AM
Apple should just release the phone as a piece of unlocked GSM equipment that can be purchased directly from their site and used on any GSM provider worldwide. Simple and effective and doesn't limit Apple to a tired brand like Cingular (or even more tired, AT&T).
Unlocked GSM phone, please! I have and like T-Mobile, and I wish to be able to switch chips when I travel. I just bought an unlocked Sony Ericsson phone last month, and I sure don't want to go back to something locked, or worse, something on Cingular.

pcp_ip
Jan 9, 2007, 06:30 AM
I wouldn't be so worried about the Cingular deal. The copyright office has ruled that cellphones can be unlocked without violating copyrights (Section 5 (http://www.copyright.gov/1201/index.html)). You can rest assured, if the iPhone is on Cingular it's a standard GSM phone that will work on any GSM network around the world.

Apple is going to sell the phone the same way Palm sells Treos: Dirt cheap with a 2 year Cingular contract or full price unlocked to be used on the carrier of your choice. The exclusive will be that Cingular will be the first to offer it bundled with service. That's all. you'll still be able to buy it unlocked without cingular service at full price and use it where you like (tmobile, vodafone, orange, just not sprint or verizon).

Roy Hobbs
Jan 9, 2007, 06:37 AM
Offering both CDMA and GSM would be dumb. Twice the regulatory hassle. Why offer CDMA when GSM is the global standard? Just about only ones using CDMA are few Americans, everyone else is on GSM.

A few Americans??? If I am not mistaken Sprint and Verizon have a HUGE share of the market in the US. Having both a CDMA and a GSM version of the phone would mean more sale and more $$ for Apple.

boss1
Jan 9, 2007, 06:38 AM
I wouldn't be so worried about the Cingular deal. The copyright office has ruled that cellphones can be unlocked without violating copyrights (Section 5 (http://www.copyright.gov/1201/index.html)). You can rest assured, if the iPhone is on Cingular it's a standard GSM phone that will work on any GSM network around the world.

Apple is going to sell the phone the same way Palm sells Treos: Dirt cheap with a 2 year Cingular contract or full price unlocked to be used on the carrier of your choice. The exclusive will be that Cingular will be the first to offer it bundled with service. That's all. you'll still be able to buy it unlocked without cingular service at full price and use it where you like (tmobile, vodafone, orange, just not sprint or verizon).


I hope that turns out to be a reality later on today. However it turns out though, I really hope that the Apple phone will do more than just iTunes. I have my fingers crossed with the idea that it might offer connectivity to .Mac and all the services .Mac offers ie, email, ical, address book, etc.

.Mac is the perfect venue for keeping your Mac in sync with an Apple phone (if one exists). I really hope the company puts something like this into practice.

borisadmin
Jan 9, 2007, 06:39 AM
IF Cingular turns out to be the exclusive provider of service for Apple's phone then one has to wonder why Cingular? The answer may be more than just then just the GSM aspect of it.

Great post by boss1. We'll see what happens in a few hours, but it certainly doesn't make any sense for Apple to hook up with the existing mobile game in any exclusive relationship, UNLESS they are trialling an entirely new business model around music downloading etc. which they want some sucker network operator to be the guineapig for. I don't think Apple's ready for MVNO yet, but they could go for simultaneously unlocked GSM at premium pricing (I'd pay) and subsidised handset with Cingular or whomever. Then Apple could still own the music download side of things through itunes store (existing accounts), and give Cingular a cut on anything coming from the Cingular network (billed to cell acct) - i.e. dual billing structure.

Apple can clearly execute a quality product in the new device, I don't think they have the capacity yet to execute a quality MVNO (if there is such a thing lol), so their strategy should be to test the handset with someone else's billing relationship, and after they get to 3.0 make the move to owning the billing relationship.

Dagless
Jan 9, 2007, 07:01 AM
Over in the UK theres an article in the Daily Mail about Apples iPhone. Mentioning the obvious - it's an MP3 player and phone. But also saying it will cost about £200 for the 4gb and £300 for the 8gb version.

ALSO pointing out that it's out in the US soon but delayed until Autumn here.

Philsy
Jan 9, 2007, 07:13 AM
Over in the UK theres an article in the Daily Mail about Apples iPhone. Mentioning the obvious - it's an MP3 player and phone. But also saying it will cost about £200 for the 4gb and £300 for the 8gb version.

ALSO pointing out that it's out in the US soon but delayed until Autumn here.

From what I've read here, if I was Apple, I'd bring the phone out in the rest of the world BEFORE the USA - it would give me access to a larger and more advanced market.

Stella
Jan 9, 2007, 07:15 AM
From what I've read here, if I was Apple, I'd bring the phone out in the rest of the world BEFORE the USA - it would give me access to a larger and more advanced market.

!!!!

Apple release a product that the states will have to wait for - to be unavailable?

Hell will freeze over first!

( iTunes for Windows was just a slight thawing )