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MacRumors
Jan 9, 2007, 11:41 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple today formally introduced the Apple TV. The set-top unit, first previewed during the "It's Showtime" event in September 2006 is geared toward streaming content from your computer to a widescreen TV.

Features
- 720p high definition video
- 40 GB hard drive
- 802.11 b, g, and n compatible
- Intel processor
- Designed for widescreen TV's
- can stream from up to 5 computers (or from apple.com/trailers)

The Apple TV will ship in February, and is available for pre-order today.

[ Digg This (http://www.digg.com/apple/Apple_Announces_Apple_TV_2) ]



amacgenius
Jan 9, 2007, 11:48 AM
It seems interesting, but I don't like the pricetag, it just seems like a second computer.

diadem
Jan 9, 2007, 11:53 AM
It seems interesting, but I don't like the pricetag, it just seems like a second computer.Yes its an old idea we have been doing it for years with media center pc. Iv had my Xbox doing it and that cost me very little.

Its not going to take of at that price.

clevin
Jan 9, 2007, 11:54 AM
any more detail?
like, how to operate and control? and can it record cable TV signal? that would be interesting.
still, $300 is kinda expensive..

Tclare
Jan 9, 2007, 11:54 AM
I can't wait to buy one!

SactoGuy18
Jan 9, 2007, 12:03 PM
40 GB hard drive? Too small, in my humble opinion. It should have at least a 100 GB hard drive to be useful.

BlueRevolution
Jan 9, 2007, 12:04 PM
Colour me in the "too expensive" camp. I'd much rather bring my TV to my computer than my computer to my TV.

And anyone else think the iPhone stole a bit of its thunder?

MhzDoesMatter
Jan 9, 2007, 12:04 PM
Yeah, the price point and HD res aren't the best. It'll be the UI that ends up making the device worth it, (per usual for apple.) But hopefully its more than front row in a box. Hopefully there are other features that we didn't really notice. Like dishwashing and oil changing. And 199 might be a little two sweet of a price point. Gotta stay above the masses at first. You know Apple.

~Shard~
Jan 9, 2007, 12:07 PM
How major of a role does iTMS play in this? This is an issue for me since iTMS Canada is limited. In other words, can I only play content acquired from the iTMS? Iím assuming not, but to that end, what video formats will be accepted? Only QT, or AVI, divx, etc.? Will people who download their favorite TV shows from torrents, TiVO, etc. be able to watch them on Apple TV? Letís hope this is the case.

Still not sold on it though - I'll have to do more research on Apple.com afterwards. ;) :cool:

thejadedmonkey
Jan 9, 2007, 12:08 PM
I think it'd be worth $300 no problem, if it had a larger hard drive, but at this price point it's worth around $200... it's just not useful enough. My music alone takes up over 30 gigs, and this thing would be full within a year.

give it another year and I'd have to buy a 2nd one with a larger hard drive (I'd assume they will have upgraded by then)..oh, maybe that's what apple wants:rolleyes:

peharri
Jan 9, 2007, 12:27 PM
That's about what you'd expect in a DVR (80 hours on my Dish Network unit), and it's going to be enough for all the stuff you'd send to the machine automatically. For your movie collection, well, you can store those on external machines and stream them to it.

I think the price point is fine. It's a device of the type I was hoping for, my only reservation is it does look like it needs a second computer for the full functionality to be apparent. But that could easily be a $500 Dell with iTunes. Bad, but not insurmountable.

srobert
Jan 9, 2007, 12:28 PM
Well, technically, the iTV Hard disk capacity is 40GB + all the Hard disk capacity you have in 6 of your computers. :D

Edit: peharri was faster.

Edit2: Too bad they couldn't achieve 1080p.

IndyGopher
Jan 9, 2007, 12:28 PM
40 GB hard drive? Too small, in my humble opinion. It should have at least a 100 GB hard drive to be useful.

I give it about 12 hours after launch before detailed instructions on how to swap out the hard drive are on the web. Not a big deal... TiVO's all have hard drives that are way too small, as well.. which is why people upgrade them.

scheming
Jan 9, 2007, 12:37 PM
i think there is something missing here, features or software for the computer. what will this device actually do? i don't know from what was posted and until then, i don't think it is fair to say that it is too expensive. it's streaming from your computer, so i'm sure the 40 gb hd doesn't even matter, all files will be streamed from your computer

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 12:38 PM
Well, technically, the iTV Hard disk capacity is 40GB + all ther Hard disk you have in 6 of your computers. :D

Edit: peharri was faster.

Also, what's the USB port for? Didn't see any mention of it in the MRL feed.

B

SeaFox
Jan 9, 2007, 12:51 PM
any more detail?
like, how to operate and control? and can it record cable TV signal? that would be interesting.
still, $300 is kinda expensive..

It can't record, that's the point. You buy your shows off iTunes.

Roy Hobbs
Jan 9, 2007, 12:57 PM
40 GB hard drive? Too small, in my humble opinion. It should have at least a 100 GB hard drive to be useful.

It is meant to stream media from your Mac, why would you need a hard drive larger than 40 GB

e≤Studios
Jan 9, 2007, 12:57 PM
Can you stream other media to the apple tv? as in take from tivo2go, rip to mpeg standard format and stream to tv? Or are you locked to only getting your media from ITMS/iTunes?

Ed

ccunning
Jan 9, 2007, 01:16 PM
So does this mean video purchased from iTunes now going to be at 720p?

Rocketman
Jan 9, 2007, 01:16 PM
This seems to simply allow purchased content to be displayed on a screen. It does not seem to be a DVR or in any way claim to offer those functions anything beyond whatever iTunes does already.

So what is the current leading edge content capture and DVR application for the Mac? Or do you need a PC as a video server to capture your satellite, cable, broadcast and local content channels?

Rocketman

kalisphoenix
Jan 9, 2007, 01:21 PM
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=E9239ACC&nplm=MA073LL%2FA

New Airport Extreme Base Station, too.

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 01:21 PM
hmmm.....Am I missing the point here? Why do you need a hard drive in a device thats meant to stream content? Does this mean then it doesnt stream stuff from your mac? If that's the case, 40GB isn't going to get you very many 720p films...

PS. Heh the UK Apple store has crashed.

Chimera
Jan 9, 2007, 01:23 PM
Nice device but we need 720p downloads still, or any movie downloads outside the USA, hopefully they are working on those things too.

mwswami
Jan 9, 2007, 01:24 PM
Also, what's the USB port for? Didn't see any mention of it in the MRL feed.

B

The USB port is for firmware upgrade and such. See Apple TV Tech Specs (http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html).

D0ct0rteeth
Jan 9, 2007, 01:25 PM
If I can attach a firewire hard drive, or replace it with a big ol 1TB drive then maybe we'd be talking but this is all about early adopters and our huge movie/music libraries.

if I can swap out the drive then maybe - but isnt it all about the software and its small profile... there are no laptop sized hard drives over ~150-200GB

I dont see this taking off

dalvin200
Jan 9, 2007, 01:29 PM
this is kinda limiting as you can't play all stuff that you ca on frontrow.. ie, avi divx etc...

on the product pagem it states that its any file which is in your itunes library..

so without converting avi to itunes format, then you're pretty much buggered..

i would have bought it but the non-divx thing has stopped me..

i'll stick with my macbook hooked up to tv using frontrow for the time being

mrploddy
Jan 9, 2007, 01:30 PM
Considering the UK doesnt yet have either a TV store or Movie store UK users have what reason exactly for buying an Apple TV ?.....

-mrploddy

menziep
Jan 9, 2007, 01:30 PM
It Needs iTunes 7.1

andyblac
Jan 9, 2007, 01:31 PM
this is not much for use in the UK, as we cant buy Movies/TV from iTunes. yet another useless product for Europe. US gets all the good stuff and again the price is a rip off

$299 = £153.64 yet we are being charged £199. come on apple get your act together.

dalvin200
Jan 9, 2007, 01:31 PM
Considering the UK doesnt yet have either a TV store or Movie store UK users have what reason exactly for buying an Apple TV ?.....

-mrploddy

that as well as not being able to play divx etc..

gavd
Jan 9, 2007, 01:32 PM
Nice device but we need 720p downloads still, or any movie downloads outside the USA, hopefully they are working on those things too.

Agreed. Not having any movie downloads in the UK leaves me uninterested in this at the moment.

aswitcher
Jan 9, 2007, 01:39 PM
Can I attach an external USB HDD and put my iTunes library on it via this device?

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 01:39 PM
Yeah, this is kinda disapointing. I was hoping for just a simple device that brings front row to my TV easily. It's annoying that it doesn't play avi....but it does play your iTunes stuff and mpeg can be imported into your iTunes library.

But then that means you need two copies of each film- one that goes into your iTunes library for Apple TV, and one that stays in your 'Movies' folder for when you want Frontrow on your Mac. That's a bummer.

VoodooDaddy
Jan 9, 2007, 01:41 PM
So everyone is in agreement this is for itunes content only? No divx or other video formats? If so they just lost my sale because I was planning to get one.

ziwi
Jan 9, 2007, 01:46 PM
It can't record, that's the point. You buy your shows off iTunes.
Then it doesn't make sense. If I can only watch the limited library that iTunes has after paying the same as a DVD and getting lower quality - why would anyone want this over buying the actual DVD - assuming that they would still need it as not every movie comes from Disney or Paramount.
Sure have all you movies on your hard drive - who is going to sacrifice that storage versus the shiny platter? It is missing something - I don't get it...someone help me get it, please - what am I missing here?

dalvin200
Jan 9, 2007, 01:52 PM
So everyone is in agreement this is for itunes content only? No divx or other video formats? If so they just lost my sale because I was planning to get one.

exactly.. me in the same boat..

remains to be seen though what happens when reviewers get their hands on it though.

Frisco
Jan 9, 2007, 01:54 PM
Bill Gates was right the other day when he said Apple missed the boat to get into the living room.

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 01:56 PM
oh well i bought it the second the store came up :rolleyes:

andyblac
Jan 9, 2007, 01:57 PM
It's annoying that it doesn't play avi....but it does play your iTunes stuff and mpeg can be imported into your iTunes library.

But then that means you need two copies of each film- one that goes into your iTunes library for Apple TV, and one that stays in your 'Movies' folder for when you want Frontrow on your Mac. That's a bummer.

Note quite true, did you not know that you can import AVI's into iTunes. allthough you need QuickTime Pro & the necessary codecs, all you have to do is open your AVI in QuickTime Pro and go to "Save As" chose "self-contained movie" this will put a QuickTime (.mov) rapper around the AVI so iTunes can see it. then just add as a normal mov file. and your done.

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 01:58 PM
Bill Gates was right the other day when he said Apple missed the boat to get into the living room.

LOL. From these first impressions I'm inclined to agree.

It needs LOADS of hacks to enable streaming from your Mac direct. Looking at the Apple TV on the Hardware section of the Apple site, it looks like it has to sync with your iTunes library (whats the point in that?! You don't need another clone of your library!) It also implies thyat if your library is greater than 40GB you're screwed.

Time will tell though.

ChrisA
Jan 9, 2007, 01:58 PM
I give it about 12 hours after launch before detailed instructions on how to swap out the hard drive are on the web. Not a big deal... TiVO's all have hard drives that are way too small, as well.. which is why people upgrade them.

Reading the tech specs on the new Airport Extreme, it says you can connect multiple printers and multiple USB hard drives to the USB port. Perhaps the Apple TV allows the same? So if 40GB is not enough just plug in a 1TB RAID box and you'd be set for a while. That USB port has to be there for a reason.

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 01:58 PM
Bill Gates was right the other day when he said Apple missed the boat to get into the living room.

LOL. From these first impressions I'm inclined to agree.

It needs LOADS of hacks to enable streaming from your Mac direct + other things. Looking at the Apple TV on the Hardware section of the Apple site, it looks like it has to sync with your iTunes library (whats the point in that?! You don't need another clone of your library!) It also implies thyat if your library is greater than 40GB you're screwed.

Time will tell though.

Porco
Jan 9, 2007, 01:58 PM
To repeat myself from another thread, it is possible to play DivX in quicktime, and so iTunes, and so (presumably) Apple TV. Also, there are many solutions for converting files if need be as well. Also, I guess that aliases will work fine for having one file in iTunes and one in your movies folder for Front Row. Feel free to correct me if any of that is wrong.

I'm personally disappointed it doesn't support full HD resolutions, (i.e. up to and including 1080p). I don't see why it isn't an option. I'm on the lookout for an HD LCD TV soon, and I'm going for a 1080p model - now I don't know whether to buy an Apple TV at the same time or wait until they upgrade it.

Oh, and I'm a UK user and I'd love one still, if it wasn't for the lack of 1080p issue - it's a nice elegant solution to watch my media from the computer on a TV - the fact that I might not download TV or movies form iTunes yet is irrelevant. Those who don't see the point probably won't need one.

I'd be voting 'unsure' if there was something between positive and negative on this...

Play Ultimate
Jan 9, 2007, 02:00 PM
Bill Gates was right the other day when he said Apple missed the boat to get into the living room.

This comment seems a little premature since the product isn't even available yet. And as I recall, the original iPod had similar mixed reactions. :rolleyes:

I believe time will tell whether this is a success or not.

ansalmo
Jan 9, 2007, 02:00 PM
Why does everyone assume you can only stream movies downloaded from the iTunes store? My iTunes server is full of movies I've Handbraked from my own DVDs, and they seem to stream OK.

dalvin200
Jan 9, 2007, 02:01 PM
but who wants to waste time converting avi's into mov's etc..

the whole point is that its simple and should be able to play what you have out of the box.. kinda like front row (with the codecs)

time will tell, so i will reserve full judgement till reviews come out :)

orb
Jan 9, 2007, 02:01 PM
Grrr... All I want is a replacement for the Mac mini that is hooked up to the TV, something that isn't such a hassle. Front Row works nice for the most part, but you can't really escape the need for a mouse/keyboard from time to time. Also, can it really only do 1080i? A mac mini can do 1080p. (not that there is any content available)

I've ordered one, but if it really can't play anything other than iTunes downloads, I'll probably cancel. Hmmm...

soosy
Jan 9, 2007, 02:03 PM
It just seems like slapping an hdmi port on a Mac Mini would make so much more sense... especially at this price.

jacg
Jan 9, 2007, 02:03 PM
oh well i bought it the second the store came up :rolleyes:

Me too. Nearly. Then I realised I could just connect my MBP to my 720p projector via DVI->HDMI for photo slideshows, which is just about all that is offered in the UK at the moment.

And I get Keynote presentations, iTunes visuals, DVD Player, etc.

I am interested in the Wireless USB drive for Time Machine though. Might need a new Airport network for that though.

Deefuzz
Jan 9, 2007, 02:04 PM
So, a $300 box that brings iTunes to my TV?

No thanks.

Include DVR functionality and a slot loading DVD drive and then we can talk.

BenRoethig
Jan 9, 2007, 02:05 PM
Then it doesn't make sense. If I can only watch the limited library that iTunes has after paying the same as a DVD and getting lower quality - why would anyone want this over buying the actual DVD -

There lies this concept's fatal flaw. While the iTunes/iPod pairing was a quantim leap over CD players, the same cannot be said for itunes movies and AppleTV. HP at least had presence in mind to embed their media extender hardware into T.V.'s.

bommai
Jan 9, 2007, 02:05 PM
Bill Gates was right the other day when he said Apple missed the boat to get into the living room.

I am an Apple fan, but I have to agree with this poster. Apple has missed this one. For $299, they should have included at least the following abilities:

1) Ability to play surround sound. If you look at the Tech Specs, it cannot do any surround sound. Why even have optical port?

2) Ability to play VIDEO_TS. Converting DVDs to H.264 (and losing surround sound info) is not really feasible for most people since it takes a while to convert.

3) Still need a DVD player on the component rack. Why not have a slot loading DVD player in it so I can get rid of the DVD player and replace it with this box.

4) Need to play other video formats such as DiVX, MPEG2. Need to be able to play upto 1080p. All those people that went and bought 1080P TVs are going to disappointed.

5) I am not too disappointed about the HD size since I can still use my computer as the main storage area and use the 40GB as just temporary cache. This HD basically allows us to watch 720p movies using just 802.11g by syncing first instead of streaming.

With all these disadvantages, and the inability to hook up an eyeTV Hybrid for PVR functionality, I have almost decided to get a Mac Mini instead of this. While it is double the price, it gets rid of all of the above weaknesses. It will also allow for third party applications and ability to hook up external HDs.
Media Central and eyeTV software allow for true surround sound formats. Quicktime still does not!!

deeforce
Jan 9, 2007, 02:09 PM
Frankly that's all this is, simply minus the full operating capablity. I'm all about hooking up a Mac Mini to an HDTV and making it part of my entertainment system. Wireless mouse and keyboard can be busted out as needed for websurfing and email and other apps. Now that I've read up on the Apple TV, I'm still all about it. This new thing is a disappointment. The whole keynote was a disappointment...

Grrr... All I want is a replacement for the Mac mini that is hooked up to the TV, something that isn't such a hassle. Front Row works nice for the most part, but you can't really escape the need for a mouse/keyboard from time to time. Also, can it really only do 1080i? A mac mini can do 1080p. (not that there is any content available)

I've ordered one, but if it really can't play anything other than iTunes downloads, I'll probably cancel. Hmmm...

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2007, 02:09 PM
40 GB hard drive? Too small, in my humble opinion. It should have at least a 100 GB hard drive to be useful.

What is it with you people? When SJ pre-announced iTV last year, and mentioned the price, you people thought that it was an interesting product. Now that they told more about it and also told that it comes with a HD, it's suddenly "too expensive"? So, it wasn't too expensive when they pre-announced it without HD and at same price, but now it suddenly is?

I'm very interested in getting one. I need something simple and elegant for media-playback. I could just rip my DVD's to the computer, and stream them to AppleTV.

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 02:09 PM
Me too. Nearly. Then I realised I could just connect my MBP to my 720p projector via DVI->HDMI for photo slideshows, which is just about all that is offered in the UK at the moment.


Not true, i have loads of movies on my iMac that i can stream to the tv and all my music......i obviously didn't buy the movies from iTunes since we don't have it

geiger167
Jan 9, 2007, 02:09 PM
Correct me if I am wrong please but do you have to actually sync with your itunes and wait for the movie to transfer to your appletv box hard drive before you watch it, rather than stream (like you can do on the xbox360 for example) Am I reading the apple store site correctly on this point ? Doesn't seem a very ellegant solution at all to me.....

uk here by the way so whole show was a total wash out for me i'm afraid :(

ChrisA
Jan 9, 2007, 02:11 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple today formerly introduced the Apple TV. The set-top unit, first previewed during the "It's Showtime" event in September 2006 is geared toward streaming content from your computer to a widescreen TV.

Features
- 720p high definition video
- 40 GB hard drive
- 802.11 b, g, and n compatible
- Intel processor
- Designed for widescreen TV's
- can stream from up to 5 computers (or from apple.com/trailers)

The Apple TV will ship in February, and is available for pre-order today.

[ Digg This (http://www.digg.com/apple/Apple_Announces_Apple_TV_2) ]

I can't believe it only does 720p. Let's hope some third party makes a competing device. And YES I do have lots of content with greater than 720 lines - my entire iPhoto library. And I'm sure my next video camera will do 1080 also. I refuse to spend $299 on something that will need to be upgraded to day it is installed

I'm sure a few people will buy this but I'll will pass until the second generation Apple TV device comes out with 1080p and a lower price.

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2007, 02:16 PM
I've ordered one, but if it really can't play anything other than iTunes downloads, I'll probably cancel. Hmmm...

It plays back everything iTunes can play back. That includes the iTunes-downloads AND any other media you might have that can be played back in iTunes.

Whistleway
Jan 9, 2007, 02:16 PM
I am an Apple fan, but I have to agree with this poster. Apple has missed this one. For $299, they should have included at least the following abilities:

1) Ability to play surround sound. If you look at the Tech Specs, it cannot do any surround sound. Why even have optical port?

2) Ability to play VIDEO_TS. Converting DVDs to H.264 (and losing surround sound info) is not really feasible for most people since it takes a while to convert.

3) Still need a DVD player on the component rack. Why not have a slot loading DVD player in it so I can get rid of the DVD player and replace it with this box.

4) Need to play other video formats such as DiVX, MPEG2. Need to be able to play upto 1080p. All those people that went and bought 1080P TVs are going to disappointed.

5) I am not too disappointed about the HD size since I can still use my computer as the main storage area and use the 40GB as just temporary cache. This HD basically allows us to watch 720p movies using just 802.11g by syncing first instead of streaming.

With all these disadvantages, and the inability to hook up an eyeTV Hybrid for PVR functionality, I have almost decided to get a Mac Mini instead of this. While it is double the price, it gets rid of all of the above weaknesses. It will also allow for third party applications and ability to hook up external HDs.
Media Central and eyeTV software allow for true surround sound formats. Quicktime still does not!!

So, a $300 box that brings iTunes to my TV?

No thanks.

Include DVR functionality and a slot loading DVD drive and then we can talk.

2 great posts. At this price it is downright silly to buy it.

It needs DVR function and ability to watch any media on mac. Also a dvd super drive. So, I can get rid of my dvd player.

This and super expensive iPhone. This macworld is a mega-bummer !!

zami
Jan 9, 2007, 02:17 PM
Frankly that's all this is, simply minus the full operating capablity. I'm all about hooking up a Mac Mini to an HDTV and making it part of my entertainment system. Wireless mouse and keyboard can be busted out as needed for websurfing and email and other apps. Now that I've read up on the Apple TV, I'm still all about it. This new thing is a disappointment. The whole keynote was a disappointment...

Seconded, for me it was a sad day, the end of Apple Computer and nothing concerning the Mac at all.

In a couple of years time OS X will be open on all Windows boxes and I expect to be running Linux. What a shame.

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 02:17 PM
Hmmmm...the initial information seems a bit contradictory. It seems as first that only iTunes content can me played via syncing but then the MacRumours post says one of the features is it ' - can stream from up to 5 computers (or from apple.com/trailers)'

I'm just gonna wait until its reviewed before I make a final decision. I want to love it, but can't right now.

BenRoethig
Jan 9, 2007, 02:18 PM
Bill Gates was right the other day when he said Apple missed the boat to get into the living room.

God, I hate when I'm in agreement with the Dark Lord of the Pacific Northwest. This is one failing we can squarely lay on the personal biases on Steve Jobs.

mduser63
Jan 9, 2007, 02:18 PM
oh well i bought it the second the store came up :rolleyes:

Yeah, me too. I think it looks like just the ticket for me, but I've got a month or more to cancel my order if I change my mind, and if not, I'll (hopefully) be one of the first to get it.

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2007, 02:19 PM
I can't believe it only does 720p. Let's hope some third party makes a competing device. And YES I do have lots of content with greater than 720 lines - my entire iPhoto library. And I'm sure my next video camera will do 1080 also. I refuse to spend $299 on something that will need to be upgraded to day it is installed

Most of my pictures are shot at 3888x2592, and here I am watching those very same pics on a screen that only does 1280x1024. Go figure.

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 02:19 PM
I can't believe it only does 720p. Let's hope some third party makes a competing device.
/. is reporting that Sling is introducing Slingcatcher today which seems to be a more generic version of aTV. And at $200 is cheaper.

Still, I placed my order for my aTV. It'll find a place by one of our HDTVs...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070108-8569.html

B

mark88
Jan 9, 2007, 02:20 PM
I just don't get this product at all. Can someone explain these things to me.

- Can I stream the movies I have on my hard drive? or do they have to be only inside iTunes?

- Can you stream DVDs?

- It seems a bit like a mac mini but without OS X, DVD drive, Large Hard Drive but with a HDMI socket?

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2007, 02:21 PM
It needs LOADS of hacks to enable streaming from your Mac direct. Looking at the Apple TV on the Hardware section of the Apple site, it looks like it has to sync with your iTunes library (whats the point in that?! You don't need another clone of your library!) It also implies thyat if your library is greater than 40GB you're screwed.

Uh, let's just say that you are wrong. Do you know what "streaming" is? It can store content locally. AND it can stream content from your Mac. In other words: It can stream content that is NOT stored on the device, it's stored on the computer!

bommai
Jan 9, 2007, 02:22 PM
I can't believe it only does 720p. Let's hope some third party makes a competing device. And YES I do have lots of content with greater than 720 lines - my entire iPhoto library. And I'm sure my next video camera will do 1080 also. I refuse to spend $299 on something that will need to be upgraded to day it is installed

I'm sure a few people will buy this but I'll will pass until the second generation Apple TV device comes out with 1080p and a lower price.

Photos will probably do 1080 lines. It is just the video that is 720p. I bet they have a very low power Intel processor in it that has trouble doing 1080p. My main pet peeve is the lack of surround sound. I would rather spend $300 more for a Mac Mini and have all these features and also the following:

1) DVD player
2) True Surround sound including DTS pass through
3) In addition to Front Row, Media Central to play other media formats, google video, youTube
4) DVR using eyeTV Hybrid and external HD.
5) Still can Bonjour share iPhoto and iTunes from main computer in office.
6) Can buy music/movies from living room instead of going to office.
7) Living room video chat using iSight or some other video camera.

Wender
Jan 9, 2007, 02:22 PM
Well, technically, the iTV Hard disk capacity is 40GB + all the Hard disk capacity you have in 6 of your computers. :D



Yes, plus a huge drive connected to the USB port of the new AirPort Extreme!

You can use all your drive space, it doesn't have to sit inside the Apple TV.

bommai
Jan 9, 2007, 02:23 PM
I can't believe it only does 720p. Let's hope some third party makes a competing device. And YES I do have lots of content with greater than 720 lines - my entire iPhoto library. And I'm sure my next video camera will do 1080 also. I refuse to spend $299 on something that will need to be upgraded to day it is installed

I'm sure a few people will buy this but I'll will pass until the second generation Apple TV device comes out with 1080p and a lower price.

Photos will probably do 1080 lines. It is just the video that is 720p. I bet they have a very low power Intel processor in it that has trouble doing 1080p. My main pet peeve is the lack of surround sound. I would rather spend $300 more for a Mac Mini and have all these features and also the following:

1) DVD player
2) True Surround sound including DTS pass through
3) In addition to Front Row, Media Central to play other media formats, google video, youTube
4) DVR using eyeTV Hybrid and external HD.
5) Still can Bonjour share iPhoto and iTunes from main computer in office.
6) Can buy music/movies from living room instead of going to office.
7) Living room video chat using iSight or some other video camera.

I recently bought a 1080P HD-ILA JVC TV. I was waiting for the iTV. But I think I am going to wait and buy a Mac Mini as soon as they upgrade that to Core 2 Duo. Hopefully that happens soon! Hopefully they enhance the graphics too.

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 02:24 PM
Uh, let's just say that you are wrong. Do you know what "streaming" is? It can store content locally. AND it can stream content from your Mac. In other words: It can stream content that is NOT stored on the device, it's stored on the computer!

Oh at least I know now. All I've been saying in my posts it that it seems like you couldn't stream from your computer (what would be the point in a hard drive if you can stream from your mac?)

AtHomeBoy_2000
Jan 9, 2007, 02:25 PM
this is an OK product. i dont know if people want to stream content from their computer. I'd much rather have a Mac Lite DVR with all these capabilities and a Mini OS X built in. I'd pay $600 for that!

liketom
Jan 9, 2007, 02:27 PM
just ordered an Apple TV - and shipping date is ....... 28th feb with a delivery date of 2nd march :D

great got to wait

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 02:29 PM
Seconded, for me it was a sad day, the end of Apple Computer and nothing concerning the Mac at all.
The iPhone is the new Mac.

The iPhone is a radical new approach to personal computing (how much more personal can you get than a computer that fits in your pocket!). I can see a whole family of computer products behind this now that OS X runs on an embedded Intel-supplied platform. I presume that aTV is one of these too, and probably runs OS X on an Xscale processor.

I'm in awe.

B

Wender
Jan 9, 2007, 02:29 PM
Key question: Will it be able to serve as the main base station, since it has ethernet in and is in fact an AirPort device?

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 02:31 PM
can someone explain how it doesn't do surround sound?

I have my movies encoded in handbrake from DVD with 5 channel ACC Audio. I'd have thought that the iTV will output these 5 channels via its optical out.

Can anyone tell me why it won't?

gauriemma
Jan 9, 2007, 02:34 PM
So everyone is in agreement this is for itunes content only? No divx or other video formats? If so they just lost my sale because I was planning to get one.

Do we know for sure that it won't play avi or divx files?

gwangung
Jan 9, 2007, 02:37 PM
The hard drive isn't for permanent storage; it's a cache to hold content streamed from your computer over whatever wireless mode is available---b, g or n.

You don't think that's going to be needed with 802.11b?

andyblac
Jan 9, 2007, 02:41 PM
can someone explain how it doesn't do surround sound?

I have my movies encoded in handbrake from DVD with 5 channel ACC Audio. I'd have thought that the iTV will output these 5 channels via its optical out.

Can anyone tell me why it won't?

dont think any amp supports AAC 5.1 only Dolby Digital 5.1

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 02:41 PM
The hard drive isn't for permanent storage; it's a cache to hold content streamed from your computer over whatever wireless mode is available---b, g or n.

You don't think that's going to be needed with 802.11b?

Good point. Very good point.

But why say 'Sync With iTunes'?

EDIT - Am I just looking at this from a 'too technical' point of view? Ie. Taking the word sync literally meaning your entire iTunes library cloned on the Apple TV.

CanadaRAM
Jan 9, 2007, 02:42 PM
Get your head around it, people, this is not a "set top box" or a "DVR" or a "Tivo"

It is an Airport Express for video.

Nothing more. "AirFlix" if you like.

Wender
Jan 9, 2007, 02:43 PM
Do we know for sure that it won't play avi or divx files?

Agreed. Since I can play divx and avi and about any format existing using Front Row, then I bet this device will play the same stuff residing in my "Movies" folder.

Your photos is in your "Pictures" folder and not in iTunes. They will be displayed. Apple would never make a product that can't show your iMovie creations on your TV. This will work like Front Row, I bet!

FreeState
Jan 9, 2007, 02:43 PM
Designed for widescreen... thats great but will it work on non-widescreen TVs (I have a Sony Triniton that I use and love still - going high def sometime soon but want to use AppleTV on my current TV)

rog
Jan 9, 2007, 02:45 PM
I don't see the point of this. I would rather just plug in my iPod to my TV and save $300. My iPod has far more capacity anyway. Should be $149 or have 500GB if $299.

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 02:46 PM
dont think any amp supports AAC 5.1 only Dolby Digital 5.1

Right......so why are people moaning that this product is cack and they should just get a mac mini? A mac mini playing handbrake files wouldn't do surround sound either!?

iW00t
Jan 9, 2007, 02:46 PM
DivX support is not listed under its tech specs, so I'd wait for the Rev B version of this before concluding that it will support DivX and other popular file formats.

Agreed. Since I can play divx and avi and about any format existing using Front Row, then I bet this device will play the same stuff residing in my "Movies" folder.

Your photos is in your "Pictures" folder and not in iTunes. They will be displayed. Apple would never make a product that can't show your iMovie creations on your TV. This will work like Front Row, I bet!

bankshot
Jan 9, 2007, 02:48 PM
So, a $300 box that brings iTunes to my TV?

No thanks.

Include DVR functionality and a slot loading DVD drive and then we can talk.

Exactly. It also needs the ability to import DVDs into my library just like iTunes does with CDs. I understand that the issue here is legal/political and not technical (the MPAA was successful in getting legislation passed making it illegal to rip DVDs), but it's so crippling to such a device. Advanced users can probably rip to H.264 manually and then add movies to iTunes, but that won't sell it to Joe iPod User.

Even so, I'd have a hard time buying one now because they didn't take my advice and put in a simple S-video port. It has analog audio out, why not analog video out? I know Apple likes to push interface standards forward, but come on. How hard would it have been, Steve? :rolleyes:

For double the price, a Mac mini will do just about everything I want today - stream ripped DVDs from my collection on my server, and output to my TV via S-video. The only problem is that Front Row doesn't support VIDEO_TS folders, so I have to navigate using keyboard and mouse to select a movie in DVD Player before using the remote once it's playing. I've done this a few times with my Macbook, and it's still a pain.

Apple has long touted themselves as being the center of the digital lifestyle, but they aren't there yet. Not even close. Many of the problems are not on their end, but Steve Jobs needs to use his patented charisma to get other industry players on board, just as he did with record labels and the iTunes Store. This goes for the content creators as well as the service providers (ie, cable and satellite for TV). A true digital media hub needs to:

Import, organize, browse, and play back legally purchased movies and music. Includes importing physical formats like CD and DVD.
Record, organize, browse, and play back TV. Basically be a DVR. With long-term archival capability (and hey, if I need to pay $1 or $2 to permanently save a recorded TV show, that's reasonable).
Organize, view, print (locally or ordering online such as photo books) photos.
Synchronize content from any other machines/devices in the house.
Pull content from online - whether from the internet or from cable/satellite providers.
Support simple web browsing, email, etc at a minimum from the TV. More advanced stuff can be left for the dedicated computers.

Looking at this list, it seems that aTV does very little of it. I didn't honestly expect most of this (due in part to industry roadblocks), but I was hoping for a little more. I'm so tired of not watching my DVDs because it's such a pain finding and swapping discs compared to the ease of listening to music. DVDs need to take the same path that my new CDs take: Store -> Computer Import -> Box in the Closet.

Oh well. :rolleyes:

hottyson
Jan 9, 2007, 02:48 PM
So, a $300 box that brings iTunes to my TV?

No thanks.

Include DVR functionality and a slot loading DVD drive and then we can talk.

You are describing a Mac Mini with the EyeTV hybrid.

That combo is fantastic since you can record and rip cd and dvd but it runs at least twice the cost depending on the mini you use. Plus you can surf the web, Skype, etc... The dvi port on the mini should perform better too since you can 1080p.

benpatient
Jan 9, 2007, 02:48 PM
Uh, let's just say that you are wrong. Do you know what "streaming" is? It can store content locally. AND it can stream content from your Mac. In other words: It can stream content that is NOT stored on the device, it's stored on the computer!

while the macrumors news post does say "stream," apple's website for the appletv does not ANYWHERE that I can find say that it streams content FROM other computers on the fly. It in fact says "sync" everywhere I want it to say "stream."

Maybe they really mean "sync the itunes database info" just like you get in Front Row, and you can optionally put things directly onto the aTV just if you want access to it when the computers aren't connected or on. But that's not at all how it sounds. I've got 2 computers with iTunes libraries at home. One G4 with a 60gb library of music and one PC with 180 GB of music, vpods and other junk (lossless music for my HT system). That's not including all of the DVDs I plan on importing after my next hard drive purchase (500+ GB, i'm sure).

If it streams from connected computers and on the fly, storing the files on the 40gb drive, then that's one thing, but it doesn't say that anywhere on apple's site that I can find. It's an error of presumption on the part of this news post. I really, really hope I'm mistaken, because a 40gb library cap is a deal-breaker for me.

HelixOmnimedia
Jan 9, 2007, 02:50 PM
Have i got this correct?

The movie or tv show is sent to the AppleTV via the internet?
So does it depends on the speed of your internet to what the quality of the movie/tv show shown through your tv?

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 02:51 PM
while the macrumors news post does say "stream," apple's website for the appletv does not ANYWHERE that I can find say that it streams content FROM other computers on the fly. It in fact says "sync" everywhere I want it to say "stream."

Maybe they really mean "sync the itunes database info" just like you get in Front Row, and you can optionally put things directly onto the aTV just if you want access to it when the computers aren't connected or on. But that's not at all how it sounds. I've got 2 computers with iTunes libraries at home. One G4 with a 60gb library of music and one PC with 180 GB of music, vpods and other junk (lossless music for my HT system). That's not including all of the DVDs I plan on importing after my next hard drive purchase (500+ GB, i'm sure).

If it streams from connected computers and on the fly, storing the files on the 40gb drive, then that's one thing, but it doesn't say that anywhere on apple's site that I can find. It's an error of presumption on the part of this news post. I really, really hope I'm mistaken, because a 40gb library cap is a deal-breaker for me.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Thanks!

Porchland
Jan 9, 2007, 02:51 PM
40 GB hard drive? Too small, in my humble opinion. It should have at least a 100 GB hard drive to be useful.

I doubt that I'll get an Apple TV until Apple:

* bumps up the hard drive to 100 GB;

* adds a TV subscription plan that somewhat resembles cable and satellite's pricing and content models;

* edges down the price (gradually) to $199; and

* allows me to rent movies for $4 for 24 hours.

The current offering just doesn't give me anything I don't already have. Apple is either going to have to match cable's pricing and availability or give me something that cable can't to get me into an Apple TV.

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 02:54 PM
while the macrumors news post does say "stream," apple's website for the appletv does not ANYWHERE that I can find say that it streams content FROM other computers on the fly. It in fact says "sync" everywhere I want it to say "stream."

Read it again. http://www.apple.com/appletv/sync.html

Always on.

Apple TV streams as well as it syncs, so you can pair up to five additional computers and let friends and family stream their iTunes libraries to your TV. Apple TV stores up to 50 hours of video, ready to watch when you are. And if iTunes is still syncing what you want to see — or if you don’t want to sync at all — you can watch a stream from your computer right away.

Here's what it seems to boil down to. You can tell iTunes 7.1 to "push" whatever content you like to the aTV in the background, this content will be available immediately as it it stored locally. You can also stream content (i.e. "pull") from up to 5 PC/Macs or from the Aplle Trailers site without having it reside on the internal drive.

Interesting to note that is only claims to support 720p/24, which would rule out any HD TV which I'd expect to be 720p/30.

B

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 02:56 PM
This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Thanks!

Then you people need to learn to read and research properly:

" AirPort Extreme, Wi-Fi 802.11b/g/n wireless network (video streaming requires 802.11g/n)

or

10/100 Base-T Ethernet wired network "

So all new macs should stream after the firmware upgrade

caveman_uk
Jan 9, 2007, 02:56 PM
Considering the UK doesnt yet have either a TV store or Movie store UK users have what reason exactly for buying an Apple TV ?.....

-mrploddy
Exactly, it's pointless. If anyone in the UK buys it they need their head examined.

Apple is obviously unaware that we have Sky+ here which does a hell of a lot more than show my photos on my telly.

FreeState
Jan 9, 2007, 02:56 PM
while the macrumors news post does say "stream," apple's website for the appletv does not ANYWHERE that I can find say that it streams content FROM other computers on the fly. It in fact says "sync" everywhere I want it to say "stream."

Maybe they really mean "sync the itunes database info" just like you get in Front Row, and you can optionally put things directly onto the aTV just if you want access to it when the computers aren't connected or on. But that's not at all how it sounds. I've got 2 computers with iTunes libraries at home. One G4 with a 60gb library of music and one PC with 180 GB of music, vpods and other junk (lossless music for my HT system). That's not including all of the DVDs I plan on importing after my next hard drive purchase (500+ GB, i'm sure).

If it streams from connected computers and on the fly, storing the files on the 40gb drive, then that's one thing, but it doesn't say that anywhere on apple's site that I can find. It's an error of presumption on the part of this news post. I really, really hope I'm mistaken, because a 40gb library cap is a deal-breaker for me.


Maybe you missed this....

Always on.
Apple TV streams as well as it syncs, so you can pair up to five additional computers and let friends and family stream their iTunes libraries to your TV. Apple TV stores up to 50 hours of video, ready to watch when you are. And if iTunes is still syncing what you want to see — or if you don’t want to sync at all — you can watch a stream from your computer right away.

http://www.apple.com/appletv/sync.html

(sorry looks like I posted this just as someone else did)

joemama
Jan 9, 2007, 03:00 PM
It can't record, that's the point. You buy your shows off iTunes.

This is why it will not sell well. People will not pay twice for the same content. Once for the cable bill, twice to download and stream it on a TV.

If it would work the REVERSE way that would be neat. Download shows to the HD, convert them to a compressed video file and send it over to your mac so you can upload it to the iPod.

That would be a killer product. Right now though, ho-hum.

simontarr
Jan 9, 2007, 03:01 PM
Then you people need to learn to read and research properly:

" AirPort Extreme, Wi-Fi 802.11b/g/n wireless network (video streaming requires 802.11g/n)

or

10/100 Base-T Ethernet wired network "

So all new macs should stream after the firmware upgrade

Maybe we should, but it seems that a greater percentage of people that have posted are a little bemused as to what exactly it does. I understand it much better now though.

Was I actually being stupid or have Apple just not explained things as well as they usually do?

codo
Jan 9, 2007, 03:01 PM
UK Users

As others have pointed out, clearly this device is useless without the content. Apple hasn't pushed to get television content on iTunes in the UK, and may have missed the boat.

Channel 4 has launched it's download service (http://www.channel4.com/4od), ITV is launching (link: subscription required) (http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcastnowArticle.aspx?intStoryID=166613) theirs in the next few months (It will be advert supported and free) and the BBC is expected to launch it's iMP (http://www.bbc.co.uk/imp/) download service later this year. Considering the investment each broadcaster has made, are they going to put their content on iTunes? I feel Apple should have the content on iTunes for two reasons.

1) Channel 4 & the BBC's service use Microsoft DRM and therefore do not support the Macintosh platform. I presume ITV's will also require Windows. This locks Mac users out of content download, meaning we need iTunes!

2) Apple tv needs content. Movie trailers and music on TV is hardly worth £200.

What about movies? Come on! The movie download market is practically none existent here, so Apple has a better chance than with the TV networks, i think, as there has been little investment.

I still think the television networks will want to get onto iTunes, as there is a larger consumer base, however, i feel inclined to think they will be reluctant after investment in their own distribution products models.

benpatient
Jan 9, 2007, 03:01 PM
that's what I missed. whew.

thought I was going to have to keep my PC in the living room for another year...

I do believe that the 720/24 thing is a typo...at least I hope so...

One other thing seems weird. it says it REQUIRES an internet connection. Why?
(just turned off the internet in a silent protest against Comcast, and can't get DSL until BellSouth is fully absorbed into AT&T and starts offering naked 19.99 DSL, cause I'm not buying a land line)

bankshot
Jan 9, 2007, 03:04 PM
Get your head around it, people, this is not a "set top box" or a "DVR" or a "Tivo"

It is an Airport Express for video.

Nothing more. "AirFlix" if you like.

Yup, that's pretty much it, isn't it? Was hoping for more, but that'll have to wait. Maybe next time. :)

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 03:05 PM
UK Users

As others have pointed out, clearly this device is useless without the content. Apple hasn't pushed to get television content on iTunes in the UK, and may have missed the boat.

Channel 4 has launched it's download service (http://www.channel4.com/4od), ITV is launching (link: subscription required) (http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcastnowArticle.aspx?intStoryID=166613) theirs in the next few months (It will be advert supported and free) and the BBC is expected to launch it's iMP (http://www.bbc.co.uk/imp/) download service later this year. Considering the investment each broadcaster has made, are they going to put their content on iTunes? I feel Apple should have the content on iTunes for two reasons.

1) Channel 4 & the BBC's service use Microsoft DRM and therefore do not support the Macintosh platform. I presume ITV's will also require Windows. This locks Mac users out of content download, meaning we need iTunes!

2) Apple tv needs content. Movie trailers and music on TV is hardly worth £200.

What about movies? Come on! The movie download market is practically none existent here, so Apple has a better chance than with the TV networks, i think, as there has been little investment.

I still think the television networks will want to get onto iTunes, as there is a larger consumer base, however, i feel inclined to think they will be reluctant after investment in their own distribution products models.

YES but i have hundreds of movies on my mac not from itunes music store (i am from the UK). PLUS apple said at last keynote the movie store will go international in first quarter 2007

williedigital
Jan 9, 2007, 03:05 PM
can someone explain how it doesn't do surround sound?

I have my movies encoded in handbrake from DVD with 5 channel ACC Audio. I'd have thought that the iTV will output these 5 channels via its optical out.

Can anyone tell me why it won't?

Handbrake won't produce 5.1 aac. So far the only program that does that is nero recode. Handbrake either puts the AC3 file directly into the .avi container or downmixes to a stereo aac file and puts that in the .mp4 container.

i.Feature
Jan 9, 2007, 03:07 PM
Include DVR functionality and a slot loading DVD drive and then we can talk.

I'm hoping/thinking that at the very least you will be able to use an EyeTV Hybrid with this through the usb. If this is the case i'll buy one right away. Eventually i'd probably swap out the hardrive aswell.

bearda
Jan 9, 2007, 03:09 PM
Designed for widescreen... thats great but will it work on non-widescreen TVs (I have a Sony Triniton that I use and love still - going high def sometime soon but want to use AppleTV on my current TV)

Judging from the specs page.... nope.

It never explicitly says "will not work with non-widescreen TVs" but it does say that it requires a widescreen TV, not a TV with component inputs.

Andrew Beard

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 03:09 PM
Handbrake won't produce 5.1 aac. So far the only program that does that is nero recode. Handbrake either puts the AC3 file directly into the .avi container or downmixes to a stereo aac file and puts that in the .mp4 container.

ok, why does handbrake allow you to select 2 ch or 5ch aac then if you can only ever hear 2 ch after an encode?

Not saying your wrong just trying to understand

williedigital
Jan 9, 2007, 03:14 PM
ok, why does handbrake allow you to select 2 ch or 5ch aac then if you can only ever hear 2 ch after an encode?

Not saying your wrong just trying to understand

It will let you select any track you want and either 1) encode to 2.0 aac in .mp4 or 2)parce the ac3 file directly into .avi

It's confusing I know. Search around on handbrake's forums and there are a few REALLY difficult ways to produce proper 5.1 aac on a mac, but by far the easiest is to use nero recode and parallels. Apparently megui can produce 5.1 aac on windows as well, but I'm not too familiar with it. Finally, the only way to properly play back 5.1 aac on a mac is to get some usb sound devices and assign channels through the midi interface thing in osx. THEN, the only player that can output 5.1 aac is VLC. Quicktime will automatically downsample 5.1 aac to 2.0 aac. Sweet huh?

williedigital
Jan 9, 2007, 03:17 PM
one of the things that sucks about quicktime/itunes/apple software is it's inability to display subtitles that aren't burned into the movie stream. It can't display the subtitle format that nero recode uses when it encodes video, nor .srt files. I wish they would let vlc take over the quicktime division. It's so much better.

codo
Jan 9, 2007, 03:19 PM
YES but i have hundreds of movies on my mac not from itunes music store (i am from the UK). PLUS apple said at last keynote the movie store will go international in first quarter 2007

My main concerns surround television content, as stated in my post.

The only way you can really have hundreds of movies on your Mac are from ripped DVDs, which is pointless as you may as well use your DVD player. Why pay £200 for something that you can already do? Unless of course, you are talking about illegal content, in which case then I'm sure the device will serve you well, but most consumers aren't interested in illegal content.

Either way, you're certainly not representative of most consumers. The content needs to be on iTunes for this device to be successful. Maybe Apple will announce new UK content nearer the February launch?

I don't think anything I've said is unfair or untrue. They should feel a bit of pressure and get the content on there.

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 03:20 PM
Quicktime will automatically downsample 5.1 aac to 2.0 aac.
The next version of QT (QT8?) is supposed to have a bunch of new features, I guess we'll find our more when Leopard and iLife 07 are announced/previewed/released.

EDIT: Subtitle support was one of the previewed features at the Leopard preview.

B

benpatient
Jan 9, 2007, 03:22 PM
handbrake lets you "do" all sorts of things that don't really happen.

Here's a quick bemusement I have about the aTV...Does it support AC3/DTS passthrough over optical? I'm not talking about "can you get a surround sound codec wrapped into a .MOV or .mp4 file and play it from there" I'm talking about taking a DTS-CD and importing it into iTunes with apple lossless and then streaming that digital file over to the aTV and out to a receiver for decoding, just like a mac mini currently allows? Because if so, getting any DTS or AC3 soundtrack out of the box unmolested should just be a matter of figuring out which video file format will work both with the iTV AND will allow the carry-over of DTS or AC3 audio, and then we can have our cake and listen to it, too.

I guess a lot of these questions are going to remain unresolved until we know if the aTV pulls files from a directory listing (as in your 'Movies' folder) or simply pulls your iTunes library database and if iTunes can't see it, it doesn't exist...

johngordon
Jan 9, 2007, 03:23 PM
It's horses for courses really - I disagree that it's useless just because it doesn't mean someone's particular requirements.

There's a lot of talk about DVR/PVR - but we already have that taken care of with Telewest's (UK cable co) PVR, which works just fine - three tuners, 80 hours storage, plus highlights from the last 7 days on demand, as well as a sizeable archive of whole series and movies - much of which is free from the BBC, ITV and channel 4.

And people have said they can just connect their iPod to their stereo - but you still have to get up and fiddle with it to change the music etc.I guess there are docks now that connect to the tv, but the UI looks like something from 1973, and isn't a patch on AppleTV.

So what I'd envisage using it for would be :

1. having a digital jukebox, with an elegant UI accessible on the tv screen, and controllable from a distance.

2. the same for viewing photo slideshows, without the need to connect up the laptop to the tv/stereo, or sit by the iPod to control it. People just sit around the lounge, and everything navigable onscreemn from a distance.

3. being able to watch movie trailers on the tv, using the FR UI would be good - sure you can watch then on the laptop, but if the resolution was high enough, then just watching them on the tv seems a lot easier and comfortable.

i do a fair amount of DVD slideshows, and previewing them on a tv screen without burning them first would be useful - although I suspect that if their not the finished burned DVD, then the output wouldn't be a true representation of the final burned copy anyway.

Maybe £199 is a lot for what is essentially convenience as much as anything else, but for those sorts of things I think this is way ahead of media centre PCs in bringing content into the living room. Media Centre PCs always just seemed a good way of doubling up a computer and tv in a den / bedroom - but not that many people would have one in their lounge in addition to, or in place of a tv.

This on the other hand is considerably cheaper, and perhaps whilst not satisfying the more technical savvy amoungst us, to the layman, it's an elegant, simple, relatively cheap way of doing what it says on the tin - getting media wirelessly, and easily, from your computer onto your tv screen.

benpatient
Jan 9, 2007, 03:25 PM
The only way you can really have hundreds of movies on your Mac are from ripped DVDs, which is pointless as you may as well use your DVD player.

never heard of a media server? I've got 300+ DVDs that I'd just as soon not watch because I don't want to dig them out of their cases in the stack and put them in the DVD player. Do you own a stand-alone CD player that is attached to your home theater system? I bet not. Same thing, just video. Apple may not want to help us out with importing DVDs directly to iTunes, but that doesn't mean it's any less acceptable to do than putting an audio CD on iTunes...

Twenty1
Jan 9, 2007, 03:26 PM
Here's my 2 cents...

$300 is a good price point considering what the Apple TV does and the hard drive size. (Hold on, let me explain...)

Consider buying a $30 GB iPod for $250. It could cost you another $50-$100 in cables, docks, etc; to hook it up to your TV in order to view photo's, video's, music, etc;. Apple TV does this, plus more. (Yes, I know you can't go jogging with your Apple TV, so you've got me there...)

Also, the 40 GB size isn't the worst. Sure, bigger is better and if they'd put a 100 GB drive in it, we'd be wanting a 200 GB drive. 40 GB's is enough for most users (the one's that don't read MacRumors.) As someone mentioned, it's more or less a cache so that you can store content from your computer. I have a laptop and it wouldn't be the easiest to always have the laptop on when I'm streaming content. I can take the laptop with me to work while my wife listens to the music or looks at photos stored on the Apple TV.

My only wish, one that other's have mentioned, would be a DVR like function. The frontrow interface lends itself well to surfing through channel listings. I could see a 2nd generation that has this ability.

I'm not sure if I'll be the first in line to buy one, but I'm certainly considering it.

codo
Jan 9, 2007, 03:33 PM
never heard of a media server? I've got 300+ DVDs that I'd just as soon not watch because I don't want to dig them out of their cases in the stack and put them in the DVD player. Do you own a stand-alone CD player that is attached to your home theater system? I bet not. Same thing, just video. Apple may not want to help us out with importing DVDs directly to iTunes, but that doesn't mean it's any less acceptable to do than putting an audio CD on iTunes...

That certainly makes sense, and sounds like a good solution, but you are lucky you have built such a resource. The majority of consumers will not, which is why the content on iTunes UK is necessary.

Remember, many people believe the success of the iPod is the fact iTunes made it easy to buy content - music. The same needs to be said for Apple tv, it will only be successful if there is content, television programming and feature length movies. I don't think people will pay £200 ($388) to listen to music and look at pictures on their television in their masses.

mrgreen4242
Jan 9, 2007, 03:35 PM
Improve the quality of shows on iTMS some, add in a better subscription or ad-supported sales model and the Apple TV could become a great gateway for Apple to be an IPTV provider.

I'd rather pay Apple $30-40 a month for all I can watch TV shows, even with it's limited selection and some limited ads slipped in (especially if they were targeted ads) than pay Comcast $33 and TiVo $10 a month for what amounts to the same service. Toss in a discount on movies for subscribers, or one or two free PPV movies a month and you have yourself a deal!

leekohler
Jan 9, 2007, 03:35 PM
I'm bummed. I was hoping to be able to record as well- like a DVR. Let's hope that comes next. As is, it just doesn't do enough to justify the price.

petvas
Jan 9, 2007, 03:38 PM
I think Apple Tv is a great device. I can use it to watch movies, photos, play music and all these without the need to convert my media files in a format recognizable by a DVD player (for example)...
I have an Elgato EyeTV 310 so I record many movies. Now I can easily watch them on my tv screen whenever I want without first burning the movie to a dvd.

The ability to playback photos is also great. I believe that the AppleTV is a welcomed member of the Digital Entertainment family...

I have already preordered it...

theBB
Jan 9, 2007, 03:45 PM
$299 = £153.64 yet we are being charged £199. come on apple get your act together.
Does your 199 include VAT? $299 here does not include sales tax.

theBB
Jan 9, 2007, 03:46 PM
Include DVR functionality and a slot loading DVD drive and then we can talk.
That's called a Mac mini and it is about double the price without component connections.

I don't see the point of this. I would rather just plug in my iPod to my TV and save $300. My iPod has far more capacity anyway. Should be $149 or have 500GB if $299.
Considering a good external 500GB hard disk is $200, how much money do you suppose Apple should lose for each one of your boxes?

williedigital
Jan 9, 2007, 03:51 PM
The next version of QT (QT8?) is supposed to have a bunch of new features, I guess we'll find our more when Leopard and iLife 07 are announced/previewed/released.

EDIT: Subtitle support was one of the previewed features at the Leopard preview.

B

I didn't hear about the subtitles thing. Do you know what formats they support? knowing apple, I bet it's something proprietary rather than any other the half dozen formats currently in use. There are just so many little things you can do with vlc that you cant with quicktime that it amazes me that people use quicktime at all.

theBB
Jan 9, 2007, 03:52 PM
Key question: Will it be able to serve as the main base station, since it has ethernet in and is in fact an AirPort device?
I was hoping for base station functionality as well, to justify the expense to myself, but Apple would probably bring it up on its webpage if it had that functionality.

That, and ability to hook up USB hard drives for NAS... However, if it is running a compact version of OSX, somebody might be come up with some software to enable these kinds of features. I guess I'll have to wait until March or April before we know for sure. Still, it does not look like it will have be able to do any of these out of the box.

williedigital
Jan 9, 2007, 03:58 PM
My main concerns surround television content, as stated in my post.

The only way you can really have hundreds of movies on your Mac are from ripped DVDs, which is pointless as you may as well use your DVD player. Why pay £200 for something that you can already do? Unless of course, you are talking about illegal content, in which case then I'm sure the device will serve you well, but most consumers aren't interested in illegal content.

Either way, you're certainly not representative of most consumers. The content needs to be on iTunes for this device to be successful. Maybe Apple will announce new UK content nearer the February launch?

I don't think anything I've said is unfair or untrue. They should feel a bit of pressure and get the content on there.

ok, do some math and get back to me. # of ipods sold of each generation*# number of gigs of storage on said device. sum for each generation. subtract Storage requirement of average song on itunes*total # of itunes downloads. calculate average # of cds owned per person (there is a figure out there I promise). Figure the space required to convert this number of cds to mp3 and multiply by number of ipods sold. Include some sort of discount rate to cover for people "rebuying" ipods. Assume 75% of capacity used in all ipods all generations. That will give you a rough estimate of the amount of amount of "illeagal" music on ipods worldwide, and I would wager a huge chunk of change that it's enormous.

iMinnesotan
Jan 9, 2007, 04:00 PM
I can't see myself buying one until it also functions as a DVR. I already pay monthly for Cable TV and don't have to pay $1.99 x 13 extra to watch an entire season. If I were to use aTV regularly then that would mean that my entertainment budget has gone through the roof buying TV and movies. I doubt that I fit the profile of the consumer who would buy this.

Keebler
Jan 9, 2007, 04:01 PM
i don't get the comments about having a small hd. isn't it meant to 'stream' content? therefore, why need a larger hd?

i was just about to buy a pvr, but now i'll just record to my mac, and then stream it.

wait, i need a widescreen tv ...which i don't have ! to me, this sucks, but i understand it they can't accomodate everything. bummer...my fingers were about to place an order.

AlmostThere
Jan 9, 2007, 04:07 PM
If the target audience is people who download video from iTMS exclusively, I can understand the use of iTunes but I can't help but feel they will need some of the early adopters with this one who have ripped their DVD collection to avi / mp4 etc.

Thing is, it seems that iTunes manages the streaming process but there is a big difference between storing 40Gb of music collection and movies which are generally at least 700Mb each (or larger if you are ripping your own).

From my own experience, I have found iTunes finds it hard enough to cope with a library on an external drive but I can't see it coping with Movies on an external device and music elsewhere, especially if iTunes is set to manage your collection.

With more and more media stored on external drives, either cabled or networked, I would like to hear from Apple (or posters..) about iTunes ability to smoothly manage a diverse number of media sources.

If I am going to buy something like this (and at that price), I want to know that it will work with the system I have now, and not require me to shuffle hundred of gigabytes of data into some specific flexibility. Last thing I want is hassle.

Half Glass
Jan 9, 2007, 04:12 PM
Read it again. http://www.apple.com/appletv/sync.html

Interesting to note that is only claims to support 720p/24, which would rule out any HD TV which I'd expect to be 720p/30.

B

I thought 720p was 60fps.

Plus, my initial test with a 1080i TV show exported using eyeTV with instructions to output as 24fps per the AppleTV specs did NOT handle the framerate pulldown correctly. Very jerky at times (not caused by decoding--played on a MacPro fully showing 24fps) So again, what is the point--pay for a TV show that is 640x480 on iTMS to show on my 720p LCD rear projector?

--HG

deadkenny
Jan 9, 2007, 04:16 PM
Anyone know the manufacturer of this TV Monitor shown on the Apple site along with the Apple TV: http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1181/store.apple.com/Catalog/regional/amr/itv/img/gallery-big-07.jpg

It looks really nice and elegant.

slffl
Jan 9, 2007, 04:17 PM
:( Thumbs down for me. I would have had 3 of these if it could do what Slingbox can do. But no way in hell am I going to be micro-transactioned to death on iTunes and pay for every single TV episode or movie I want to watch.

Half Glass
Jan 9, 2007, 04:21 PM
I'm ok with the fact it is not a PVR--I have a TV MiniHD for that.

My problem is that the specs do not indicate that the AppleTV could playback H.264 except for certain (non-TV) specs. (edit: ie film which IS 24fps)

As I mentioned above, Apple states 720p playback is supported at 24fps. Broadcast HD is either 29.97 (1080i) or 60 fps (720p). I am now recording HD and outputting as 720p 5800Kb/s (+audio) with 29.97fps. This produces fantastic quality HD at 1/2 orignal MPEG2 size. Frame rate conversions are simple and clean.

For the AppleTV this won't work, so I too may be waiting for a Mini with Core Duo 2.

--HG

beatzfreak
Jan 9, 2007, 04:21 PM
:( Thumbs down for me. I would have had 3 of these if it could do what Slingbox can do. But no way in hell am I going to be micro-transactioned to death on iTunes and pay for every single TV episode or movie I want to watch.

Yeah, the new SlingCatcher looks better with a smaller price tag.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/07/blake-krikorian-talks-about-the-slingcatcher-isnt-worried-abou/

codo
Jan 9, 2007, 04:27 PM
ok, do some math and get back to me. # of ipods sold of each generation*# number of gigs of storage on said device. sum for each generation. subtract Storage requirement of average song on itunes*total # of itunes downloads. calculate average # of cds owned per person (there is a figure out there I promise). Figure the space required to convert this number of cds to mp3 and multiply by number of ipods sold. Include some sort of discount rate to cover for people "rebuying" ipods. Assume 75% of capacity used in all ipods all generations. That will give you a rough estimate of the amount of amount of "illeagal" music on ipods worldwide, and I would wager a huge chunk of change that it's enormous.

Sure, but iTunes has sold two billion songs. I think that speaks for it's self.

Content is the key.

D0ct0rteeth
Jan 9, 2007, 04:28 PM
Anyone know the manufacturer of this TV Monitor shown on the Apple site along with the Apple TV: http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1181/store.apple.com/Catalog/regional/amr/itv/img/gallery-big-07.jpg

It looks really nice and elegant.

Looks like westinghousedigital

- Doc

milo
Jan 9, 2007, 04:32 PM
Most of the same complaints seem to be about price...

But what alternatives are available that have the same features for cheaper? Specifically HD and high speed wireless?

macphin
Jan 9, 2007, 04:34 PM
It's a Sony TV in advertisments.

thejadedmonkey
Jan 9, 2007, 04:39 PM
What is it with you people? When SJ pre-announced iTV last year, and mentioned the price, you people thought that it was an interesting product. Now that they told more about it and also told that it comes with a HD, it's suddenly "too expensive"? So, it wasn't too expensive when they pre-announced it without HD and at same price, but now it suddenly is?

I'm very interested in getting one. I need something simple and elegant for media-playback. I could just rip my DVD's to the computer, and stream them to AppleTV.

It was presented as an iPod that isn't portable. Nothing exciting at all, for a lot of dough. When we first got wind of it, it was $300 of untapped excitement and possibilities. Sadly, the RDF died and now we complain.

Diatribe
Jan 9, 2007, 04:43 PM
What is it with you people? When SJ pre-announced iTV last year, and mentioned the price, you people thought that it was an interesting product. Now that they told more about it and also told that it comes with a HD, it's suddenly "too expensive"? So, it wasn't too expensive when they pre-announced it without HD and at same price, but now it suddenly is?

I'm very interested in getting one. I need something simple and elegant for media-playback. I could just rip my DVD's to the computer, and stream them to AppleTV.

Without surround sound that is...

Diatribe
Jan 9, 2007, 04:44 PM
Yes, plus a huge drive connected to the USB port of the new AirPort Extreme!

You can use all your drive space, it doesn't have to sit inside the Apple TV.

Anyone know whether it is really just plug and play with a hard drive and an Airport? I'd love to do this.

Edit: Just checked, and according to the Apple website it is just that: plug and play.

Nice :)

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 04:46 PM
I'm ok with the fact it is not a PVR--I have a TV MiniHD for that.

My problem is that the specs do not indicate that the AppleTV could playback H.264 except for certain (non-TV) specs. (edit: ie film which IS 24fps)

As I mentioned above, Apple states 720p playback is supported at 24fps. Broadcast HD is either 29.97 (1080i) or 60 fps (720p). I am now recording HD and outputting as 720p 5800Kb/s (+audio) with 29.97fps. This produces fantastic quality HD at 1/2 orignal MPEG2 size. Frame rate conversions are simple and clean.

For the AppleTV this won't work, so I too may be waiting for a Mini with Core Duo 2.

--HG

This is what i thought but my .h264 movies that are outside the aTV spec play in itunes and frontrow so i am assuming they will work on aTV

AppliedVisual
Jan 9, 2007, 04:49 PM
I think it'd be worth $300 no problem, if it had a larger hard drive, but at this price point it's worth around $200... it's just not useful enough. My music alone takes up over 30 gigs, and this thing would be full within a year.

You're missing the point of it then... The 40GB drive is actually overkill for the aTV. It is intended for streaming the media from other sources like your computer or NAS. The price doesn't seem out of line to me... What else is on the market that does what it does, plus it connects directly to ITMS. The Apple TV is the missing link a lot of us (even AV integrators/installers like me) have been waiting for. The only real thing missing is a larger movie library on ITMS and subscription programs in addition to the current individual purchase model.

bilbo--baggins
Jan 9, 2007, 04:53 PM
Even so, I'd have a hard time buying one now because they didn't take my advice and put in a simple S-video port. It has analog audio out, why not analog video out? I know Apple likes to push interface standards forward, but come on. How hard would it have been, Steve? :rolleyes:

It has analogue video out. See the tech specs: composite video. That's how I connect my MacBook to my TV.

Diatribe
Jan 9, 2007, 04:54 PM
You're missing the point of it then... The 40GB drive is actually overkill for the aTV. It is intended for streaming the media from other sources like your computer or NAS. The price doesn't seem out of line to me... What else is on the market that does what it does, plus it connects directly to ITMS. The Apple TV is the missing link a lot of us (even AV integrators/installers like me) have been waiting for. The only real thing missing is a larger movie library on ITMS and subscription programs in addition to the current individual purchase model.

Yeah, imagine a rental option like Netflix, with an automatic deletion date for the files... that'd be nice.

I guess the only things I am really missing here is surround sound and 1080p support for pictures, etc. and what the future might bring.

reubs
Jan 9, 2007, 04:58 PM
Just to chime in, I was hoping for something like Media Center, as well, with the Apple UI. I don't want to pay for a TiVo-like service when I know Apple can offer something just as good that can be so integrated with everything else.

Oh, well...maybe next time. Until then I'll just watch my TV on DVD and not watch things as they air.

kfury77
Jan 9, 2007, 05:00 PM
Can I attach an external USB HDD and put my iTunes library on it via this device?

nope the USB port is only for "service updates"... you can't use it to plug in external hard-drives.

eyemacg5
Jan 9, 2007, 05:01 PM
Wouldn't for an extra $20 it be worth to get an xbox 360 core and Connect 360 (http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360)?

Because the 360 can do same as the apple tv and more for $20 more.

sfwalter
Jan 9, 2007, 05:04 PM
I guess I'm in a minority who is happy with Apple TV, I just pre-ordered one. I'm not looking to watch stream dvds from my Mac, thats what I have a dvd player.

I'm looking to do the following:
1. Play my protected (as well as unprotected) iTunes files through my home entertainment system
2. Be able to watch videocasts (aka) iptv on my tv instead of my computer
3. Have non-techie people able to access the content
4. Watch movie trailers (extra side-bonus)

Adding a dvd player or digital recorder is just too competitive. Most companies that provision your tv service now also provide dvr's. Ask Tivo how they're doing, not so great.

Only supporting 720p is ok with me too, the content on iTunes doesn't support HD yet anways (other than the trailers). To suppport 1080i is probably just a firmware upgrade anyways.

Is it pricer than I would like? yes. But its the only device to play protected iTunes content with such ease of use.

I feel what Apple has delivered will appeal to the masses. It may not be what the videophiles want, but its good enough in my opinion.

ascender
Jan 9, 2007, 05:06 PM
I'm a bit underwhelmed tbh, but then I have an Xbox 360 sitting beside my TV and a PVR underneath it. I'm kind of struggling to find a reason to buy an Apple TV box when my current setup can do much more.

Maybe I'm missing the point?


Mike.

willybNL
Jan 9, 2007, 05:09 PM
Shame they did not put a

- VCR
- DVD player (maybe even blu-ray player)
and a DigitalTV tuner in...

now it seems for me just a replacement of the cable between my macbook and hdtv, while it could be such a handy thing.

I'm waiting for version 2:P

Bregalad
Jan 9, 2007, 05:19 PM
The Apple TV is essentially a SlingCatcher with unnecessary restrictions at twice the price. Typical Apple. I can't imagine who they're marketing this to because the enthusiasts are pointing out all the deficiencies and the average consumer wants a PVR that can play back their BitTorrent files.

I really don't understand the move to a la carte distribution of television content. Although paying only for the shows I want makes a lot of sense, how will I know what I want until I see it? Relying on previews is a sure way to get sucked into stuff you don't like while missing shows that might actually be interesting.

I've had dozens of shows recommended to me and been told to stay away from dozens of others. Predictably the ones I wound up liking are a subset of the recommended ones, a bunch I discovered by channel surfing and one of the ones I was told to avoid.

A another perfect example of this is my 2.5 year old daughter. My wife and I flipped through hours of children's programming to find shows we thought were interesting and age appropriate. Not surprisingly my daughter dislikes almost everything we chose while singing and dancing to shows that drive us out of the room.

So if we didn't have cable and instead relied on an iTunes style service to download shows, we'd miss all the hockey games, pay for a whole pile of crap and miss shows we actually enjoy. If that's the future, don't bother signing me up.

Spagolli94
Jan 9, 2007, 05:24 PM
Why does the HD space matter? I thought the purpose of the device was to stream stuff from your computer to your TV??? Why does it need a hard drive at all?

Ripcord
Jan 9, 2007, 05:26 PM
Note quite true, did you not know that you can import AVI's into iTunes. allthough you need QuickTime Pro & the necessary codecs, all you have to do is open your AVI in QuickTime Pro and go to "Save As" chose "self-contained movie" this will put a QuickTime (.mov) rapper around the AVI so iTunes can see it. then just add as a normal mov file. and your done.

Perhaps, but I DON'T have to do this for any of the 10-or-so direct competitors that I can buy on the shelf today at Fry's.

The only advantage this has is being able to play iTunes-protected content, and I've decided that until I can burn those to DVD, I will not be purchasing new videos (I had been buying a TON of TV episodes). Guess I'll just stick with lower-res Tivo...

kfury77
Jan 9, 2007, 05:26 PM
Without surround sound that is...

ha ha. yes, what would be the point be in ripping your DVDs to hard-drive and then putting them on your AppleTV... you'd lose a lot of video quality, you wouldn't have the chapters/menus that have on the DVD, it would take a while to rip...

When you've already got a a DVD player and the DVD... just watch the DVD...

syklee26
Jan 9, 2007, 05:29 PM
one major bummer with aTV is the fact that it does not serve as a wireless router.

but one hope you can have is that aTV might have some extra function with Leopard when Leopard comes out. plus a significant drop in HD price may allow Apple to give customers free upgrade to HD like they did with Macbook Pro.

AdaGag
Jan 9, 2007, 05:29 PM
I think Bill Gates was close with his statement. I was dreaming that they would include DVR functions similar to Tivo but as far as I can tell, and most of you seem to agree, this is just hardware to bring your iTunes to the TV. I will say that the price point seems to be inline with similar products such as the NETGEAR Digital Entertainer Wireless Multimedia Player. I may pursue this but just have a lot of open ended questions. Then again, the Phone announcement depressed me a bit to. A multi-year exclusivity contract with Cingular?

:(

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 05:31 PM
It has analogue video out. See the tech specs: composite video. That's how I connect my MacBook to my TV.

That's component not composite, both analog, both use RCA jacks, but they're not the same. aTV doesn't support composite and requires a widescren TV with HDMI, DVI or component inputs.

B

kfury77
Jan 9, 2007, 05:33 PM
It has analogue video out. See the tech specs: composite video. That's how I connect my MacBook to my TV.

so could someone please confirm one way or the other. Can I use Apple TV on just a bog standard 4-year old CRT widescreen TV?

shawnce
Jan 9, 2007, 05:37 PM
Can I use Apple TV on just a bog standard 4-year old CRT widescreen TV? No. We don't have enough information about your TV to know what connections it has. What is the maker and the model?

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 05:38 PM
so could someone please confirm one way or the other. Can I use Apple TV on just a bog standard 4-year old CRT widescreen TV?

No. http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

TV compatibility

* Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz


B

prostuff1
Jan 9, 2007, 05:39 PM
long post...

For Video_Ts playback in front row...sort of try DVD Assist (http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/22782). I think it should work nicely for you.

I think the aTV is a step in the right direction, but not quite what I was hoping for. Unfortunately there are still a lot of questions that need to be answered before i will consider buying this.

I was planing on build a windows MCE pc for archiving music, DVD's, Photos, and the like. This aTV product would be fine but it lacks a few things.

In future revisions I would love to see:
1. 1080p support as my sweet new Westinghouse LVM-37w3 does 1080p over component.
2. A slim DVD drive built in so that i don't have to buy a DVD player.
3. 5.1 surround sound support for all the major formats.
4. Some way to play back Video_ts file that is not messing (this is the questionable one because of all the restrictions.

Now I do have a few questions. can the USB port on the back be used to attach an external drive?? If so that would be great, but then we need a way for the aTV to see anything stored on the external. Ideally, I would love to see a company come out with something in the shape of the aTV with a huge HD in it and a slim DVD drive. Put an optical connection out the back of it for hooking in audio to a surround sound system. Then make it a hub so other thing can be plugged in. Kinda like the miniStack from NewerTech but with a few other add-ons. The key thing will be getting everything to play nice with each other.

CAP811
Jan 9, 2007, 05:41 PM
Hi,

As an owner of a 480P/1080i-only CRT-based HDTV, I'd love to confirm that Apple TV supports 1080i output. On the Apple site there is a (carefully worded, IMHO) area about supported TVs, and it's stated that (to paraphrase) TV's "providing" 1080i support, are, well, covered. Now, in the video specs, an H.264 resolution corresponding to 720P output is listed...does this mean that the max source video file resolution supported is the profile corresponding to 720P, but the unit itself will support 1080i? I can't see that if the Mini will handle 1080i output that Apple TV won't...

Please somebody confirm so I can order this puppy! :rolleyes:

Thanks!

janstett
Jan 9, 2007, 05:44 PM
Yes its an old idea we have been doing it for years with media center pc. Iv had my Xbox doing it and that cost me very little.

Its not going to take of at that price.

The same X-Box 360 that costs $399?

The Apple TV isn't too bad, considering traditional UPnP Digital Media Adapters (which don't have hard disks or powerful CPUs) cost around that much.

pale9
Jan 9, 2007, 05:48 PM
not many of you people standing up and cheering on this product! why? for $300 it should have:

- at least an 80 GB hard drive (more like 100)
- support 1080i
- 5.1 surround sound

- and to really make it a killer appliance: recording ala tivo

anyway, who wants to watch itunes resolution/bitrate material on a high def tv???

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 05:51 PM
ok so i have bought the iTV but my iMac is within reach of my TV.......can anyone tell me how to connect my 24" iMac effectively to a tosh 27wl56?

The input choices are HDMI or Component (RGB)

Thanks

EDIT: Oh and to be able to use front row on the TV

EricNau
Jan 9, 2007, 05:55 PM
I'm bummed. I was hoping to be able to record as well- like a DVR. Let's hope that comes next. As is, it just doesn't do enough to justify the price.
Well, it ships in February (which is in "Spring"); maybe Leopard will introduce something that makes this device a little more practical (such as the ability to record TV on your computer and stream it to the aTV).

...Although I'm seriously starting to doubt it. :( :mad:

bearda
Jan 9, 2007, 05:56 PM
The same X-Box 360 that costs $399?

The Apple TV isn't too bad, considering traditional UPnP Digital Media Adapters (which don't have hard disks or powerful CPUs) cost around that much.

No, probably either the $299 base Xbox 360 or (more likely) an original modded Xbox that costs about half that.

Andrew Beard

janstett
Jan 9, 2007, 05:57 PM
Also, can it really only do 1080i? A mac mini can do 1080p. (not that there is any content available)


Worse, it can only do 720p. And there is plenty of 1080p content available -- HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and I have plenty of 1080p WMVs (go to www.thelookandsoundofperfect.com, you can grab a few for yourself).

milo
Jan 9, 2007, 05:57 PM
Media Central and eyeTV software allow for true surround sound formats. Quicktime still does not!!

Actually, quicktime does support surround sound, you just don't see content with it much. And what makes you so sure that the appletv doesn't output surround sound via the optical or HDMI?

Correct me if I am wrong please but do you have to actually sync with your itunes and wait for the movie to transfer to your appletv box hard drive before you watch it, rather than stream (like you can do on the xbox360 for example) Am I reading the apple store site correctly on this point ? Doesn't seem a very ellegant solution at all to me.....

You can stream if the wireless connection is fast enough to keep up (or if it's not fast enough, you can start watching before it's done syncing, you just need enough of a head start). Does the 360 stream HD (and does it do it wirelessly)? Does it include wifi, or do you have to buy an additional network interface? And is N or G required for HD streaming?

If it streams from connected computers and on the fly, storing the files on the 40gb drive, then that's one thing, but it doesn't say that anywhere on apple's site that I can find. It's an error of presumption on the part of this news post. I really, really hope I'm mistaken, because a 40gb library cap is a deal-breaker for me.

"Apple TV streams as well as it syncs, so you can pair up to five additional computers and let friends and family stream their iTunes libraries to your TV. Apple TV stores up to 50 hours of video, ready to watch when you are. And if iTunes is still syncing what you want to see ó or if you donít want to sync at all ó you can watch a stream from your computer right away."

http://www.apple.com/appletv/sync.html

The hard drive is just a buffer in case your wireless connection isn't fast enough.

smueboy
Jan 9, 2007, 05:58 PM
aTV needs a HD tuner or two in it to be worthwhile. Plus a large HD to store recordings. Streaming from my mac is all well and good, but i use a DVR more.

tringo
Jan 9, 2007, 05:59 PM
For Christ's sake people. If you can tell the difference in picture between 720p and 1080i then you're eyes must be better than 99% of humans in America! Secondly Apple has looked at the data which can be supported on wireless G and obviously didn't think that 1080 would work with 802.11g.

Secondly. Why do you want this to play dvd's??? Think about it, do you have a DVD player already? Exactly.... And if you don't you can buy a progressive player for $30.

Also I wanted to say that from a business point of view the majority of consumers are going to buy this because it looks good. Most Apple consumers are not as technologically informed as all us MacRumor users.

Oh another thing, I think the 40 gb is going to be great for people that want to share pictures or videos. Just take your little aTV with you to a friends house and bam, you're sharing the love...

pdpfilms
Jan 9, 2007, 05:59 PM
Did anyone notice that the Music section of the iTV description says "Stream up to 9,000 songs"?????

9,000?? Are you kidding? What if I have more on my computer...???

milo
Jan 9, 2007, 06:10 PM
Wouldn't for an extra $20 it be worth to get an xbox 360 core and Connect 360 (http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360)?

Because the 360 can do same as the apple tv and more for $20 more.

Doesn't the $299 version of the 360 not include a hard drive? And does either version include wifi (much less N version)?

not many of you people standing up and cheering on this product! why? for $300 it should have:

- at least an 80 GB hard drive (more like 100)
- support 1080i
- 5.1 surround sound

- and to really make it a killer appliance: recording ala tivo

OK, I'll bite. Give me a link to the box I can buy that does recording, 1080i, 5.1, and has an 80 or 100G hard drive, for $299?

No, probably either the $299 base Xbox 360 or (more likely) an original modded Xbox that costs about half that.

Does either xbox do wireless streaming? HD (with or without HDMI)?

smueboy
Jan 9, 2007, 06:16 PM
OK, I'll bite. Give me a link to the box I can buy that does recording, 1080i, 5.1, and has an 80 or 100G hard drive, for $299?

Give me a link to a box that does this and what the aTV does for any price and i'll consider buying it.

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 06:21 PM
Secondly Apple has looked at the data which can be supported on wireless G and obviously didn't think that 1080 would work with 802.11g.
Actually 720p and 1080i were chosen for the broadcast standards as they could both use the same over the air bandwidth in ATSC. Now, it could be that 1080i ends up larger in H.264, but I doubt it would be much of an effect.

B

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 06:22 PM
aTV needs a HD tuner or two in it to be worthwhile. Plus a large HD to store recordings. Streaming from my mac is all well and good, but i use a DVR more.

You have seen the $800 price tag on the TiVo Series 3, right?

B

xenotaku
Jan 9, 2007, 06:23 PM
I just dont see the point until it has the capability to be a DVR as well. 200 bucks to do what? The same thing i can do by plugging my laptop into the tv?

zap2
Jan 9, 2007, 06:24 PM
Will it work on 480i?

(Most of my TVs has Component video , but I'm not sure if its in 480i or 480p)


Maybe I'll just get a new TV to go with it!



Edit....how do you get stuff you download on your iTV to your Mac?

milo
Jan 9, 2007, 06:26 PM
I just dont see the point until it has the capability to be a DVR as well. 200 bucks to do what? The same thing i can do by plugging my laptop into the tv?

Which costs you what? A grand or more?

janstett
Jan 9, 2007, 06:27 PM
Anyone know the manufacturer of this TV Monitor shown on the Apple site along with the Apple TV: http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1181/store.apple.com/Catalog/regional/amr/itv/img/gallery-big-07.jpg

It looks really nice and elegant.


It looks a lot like a Toshiba I had in my lab. Unfortunately that monitor is right now at CES so I can't say for sure...

macphin
Jan 9, 2007, 06:33 PM
This thing is good. In fact I've been waiting for it to buy since intoduction. But there are couple aspects right now. Could you tell me:

1. In the system requirements written to use network. But if I don't have a network at home, could I just directly connect mac to this thing?

2. If I have movies on my mac in ac3 sound, or 5.1, and then, I'll connect apple tv to my 5.1 receiver, I won't be able to watch them in 5.1?

janstett
Jan 9, 2007, 06:35 PM
For Christ's sake people. If you can tell the difference in picture between 720p and 1080i then you're eyes must be better than 99% of humans in America!

If you can't tell the difference between 1280x720 and 1920x1080, get your eyes checked.

Secondly. Why do you want this to play dvd's??? Think about it, do you have a DVD player already? Exactly.... And if you don't you can buy a progressive player for $30.

Exactly, you'd expect them to pioneer an exciting new 1080p HD format like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Just goes to show Apple isn't pioneering new ground, is it?

macphin
Jan 9, 2007, 06:39 PM
It looks a lot like a Toshiba I had in my lab. Unfortunately that monitor is right now at CES so I can't say for sure...

c'mon, it's the most popular sony model. at least in europe ;)

http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProduct.action?product=KDL-46V2000&site=odw_en_GB&pageType=Overview&category=TVP+LCD+TV

beaster
Jan 9, 2007, 06:40 PM
OK, I'll bite. Give me a link to the box I can buy that does recording, 1080i, 5.1, and has an 80 or 100G hard drive, for $299?


DirecTV HR10-250 (http://www.shopping.com/xPC-Hughes-Hughes-3-Room-System-1-HR10-250-200-Hour-STD-35-Hour-HDTV-DIRECTV-High-Definition-DVR-w-TiVo-) Tivo does all the above, with a stock 250 GB drive. I bought mine for $200 with a 1-year contract with DirecTV. I don't think DirecTV sells this model anymore, but their HR20 is similar and goes for $299.

-Sean

janstett
Jan 9, 2007, 06:40 PM
Doesn't the $299 version of the 360 not include a hard drive? And does either version include wifi (much less N version)?

Yes, although you can add it after the fact.

MS sells an 802.11g USB adapter for $99. Nothing would stop them from supporting n, if you can't already do it with a generic USB nic.

Does either xbox do wireless streaming? HD (with or without HDMI)?

Yes, with the 802.11g adapter.

The 360 unfortunately doesn't support digital video out via HDMI or DVI (yet). It does however support HD via VGA or component.

smueboy
Jan 9, 2007, 06:45 PM
You have seen the $800 price tag on the TiVo Series 3, right?

B

Nice specs, but i'm not willing to pay a monthly fee for a DVR.
I'd rather something like this:
http://www.topfield-australia.com.au/product.asp?SKU=TF7000HDPVRts

janstett
Jan 9, 2007, 06:46 PM
c'mon, it's the most popular sony model. at least in europe ;)

http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProduct.action?product=KDL-46V2000&site=odw_en_GB&pageType=Overview&category=TVP+LCD+TV

Didn't ring a bell and doesn't look like any of the Sony LCDs I've seen recently in the US.

Anyway, this is the Tosh I was thinking about. I thought there were control buttons on the front band but I'm wrong, just logos. Oh well, it's square and black ;)

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/B000BUKUNG.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 06:47 PM
DirecTV HR10-250 (http://www.shopping.com/xPC-Hughes-Hughes-3-Room-System-1-HR10-250-200-Hour-STD-35-Hour-HDTV-DIRECTV-High-Definition-DVR-w-TiVo-) Tivo does all the above, with a stock 250 GB drive. I bought mine for $200 with a 1-year contract with DirecTV. I don't think DirecTV sells this model anymore, but their HR20 is similar and goes for $299.
Don't forget the cost of the service contract.

I have a pair of HR10-250s, but still preordered my aTV as soon as the store came up. I only wish that DirecTV had let TiVo loose with the software, TiVo2Go and the Home Option would have made the HR10-250 much more compelling....

Note too that the HR10-250 will become obsolete (except for ATSC) as soon as DTV switches over to MPEG4 completely, and the HR20 does not record OTA HD programs. The TiVo Series 3 is an $800 device that does actually do it all, except of course work with Satellite TV.

B

Gurutech
Jan 9, 2007, 06:47 PM
If this product had DVR function which also can be used to store the show on iPod, i'd be so excited.

But as far as I can see, this is only for showing stuff in my computer on TV which I can do it just fine with one cable.
I'm so disappointed.

geiger167
Jan 9, 2007, 06:47 PM
Ok I live in UK, love Apple products, have cash to burn. Been waiting for iTV for months (now aTV). Obviously I am not the only only slightly underwhelmed by todays announcement. In short, the total lack of tv/movie content is making this a non starter. Also the strange limiting on the resolution output of files (when I have been streaming 1080p resolution Transport Streams to my windows pc for months) It's not very often that I have found a windows solution that is better implemented that Apple. And this is through a standard 802.11g belkin router. Ok the xbox 360 is little more expensive, but it is a games console as well so nothing lost there. I really was hoping for a higher specced output resolution and some announcement of new content outside the US. All this and I have my xbox 360 hd dvd player hooked up as well and that was cheap as cheaps and plays HD movies as well, not bad for a Microsoft machine. Was really hoping the aTV was gonna blow this away with some new elegant solution to home entertainment.

eenu
Jan 9, 2007, 06:50 PM
Didn't ring a bell and doesn't look like any of the Sony LCDs I've seen recently in the US.

Anyway, this is the Tosh I was thinking about. I thought there were control buttons on the front band but I'm wrong, just logos. Oh well, it's square and black ;)

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/B000BUKUNG.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

It's neither of the models you two have mentioned look at the base! the Apple one is circular

beaster
Jan 9, 2007, 06:52 PM
If you can't tell the difference between 1280x720 and 1920x1080, get your eyes checked.


Check again. The OP said "720p vs. 1080i". That's 1280x720 = 921,600 pixels with 60 frames per second, vs. 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 with only 30 frames per second, resulting in only 1,036,800 pixels lit up in a single frame (ATSC broadcast standards). The difference is not huge, maybe 10%, in terms of pixel count per frame. You think Fox, ABC and ESPN would have standardized on 720p if it was inherently inferior to 1080i? They're not complete idiots folks. 720p generally shows fast-moving action better than 1080i (think sports), whereas 1080i generally looks better for static images, like the talking heads on the nightly news. But the differences are slight, and takes someone who knows what to look for to see them.

-Sean

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 06:55 PM
Nice specs, but i'm not willing to pay a monthly fee for a DVR.
I'd rather something like this:
http://www.topfield-australia.com.au/product.asp?SKU=TF7000HDPVRts

According to the links and a handy currency converter that unit is AU$1299, i.e. US$1000.

I'll take the TiVo.

B

bankshot
Jan 9, 2007, 06:56 PM
For Video_Ts playback in front row...sort of try DVD Assist (http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/22782). I think it should work nicely for you.

Ah, excellent, thanks! This is the biggest thing I've been wanting - the ability to navigate and play my DVDs without getting off the couch to fumble through discs and load them into the player. I'll have to try this out soon with the Macbook. If it works as advertised, I'll be very tempted to just get a Mac mini + large external drive.

beaster
Jan 9, 2007, 06:59 PM
Don't forget the cost of the service contract.

I have a pair of HR10-250s, but still preordered my aTV as soon as the store came up. I only wish that DirecTV had let TiVo loose with the software, TiVo2Go and the Home Option would have made the HR10-250 much more compelling....

Note too that the HR10-250 will become obsolete (except for ATSC) as soon as DTV switches over to MPEG4 completely, and the HR20 does not record OTA HD programs. The TiVo Series 3 is an $800 device that does actually do it all, except of course work with Satellite TV.

B

I'd be paying for the serivce contract (from DirecTV or my cable company) regardless, since I want TV service. I pay an extra $5 a month for the DVR fee though, so OK, there's another 12 x 5 - $60 bucks. I understand where you're coming from though - DTV is able to subsidize the cost of the units because they get your TV subscription business.

I'd love to see Tivo/D* continue their relationship. Sadly, they probably won't, and I'll probably follow Tivo to the Series3 and Comcast when my HR10-250's die or D* turns them off.

BTW, I believe the HR20's can record OTA now.

-Sean

orangedv
Jan 9, 2007, 07:01 PM
Exactly, it's pointless. If anyone in the UK buys it they need their head examined.

Apple is obviously unaware that we have Sky+ here which does a hell of a lot more than show my photos on my telly.

This is a greater concern for the UK;

USA tech specs;
Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps,

now the UK specs;

Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store); up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov; up to 768 Kbps, 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps; MPEG-4 up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps

Note the lack of HD formats in the UK model. I assume this is just a software issue and the hardware is the same. We must look at this product in relation to the xbox 360 hooked up to the connect 360 software, which at the moment is doing everything Apple TV can do and in high def resolution. Apple, you need to move faster in Europe or you will miss the boat.

smueboy
Jan 9, 2007, 07:03 PM
According to the links and a handy currency converter that unit is AU$1299, i.e. US$1000.

I'll take the TiVo.

B


My friend just ordered one for $A940, which is ~$US730. since everything is marked up in australia, if sold in the us it would be on par with the TiVo.

But my main point is, why can't Apple combine the best of what their aTV is, with the functions of a good DVR? Even if it cost $US800, it'd be a killer piece of hardware.

jesteraver
Jan 9, 2007, 07:03 PM
Larger HDD would be nice.

I still do not know if I will get this though.

One thing would be nice if they had TiVO installed in this, plus like have Slingbox connect to it :)

theBB
Jan 9, 2007, 07:03 PM
DirecTV HR10-250 (http://www.shopping.com/xPC-Hughes-Hughes-3-Room-System-1-HR10-250-200-Hour-STD-35-Hour-HDTV-DIRECTV-High-Definition-DVR-w-TiVo-) Tivo does all the above, with a stock 250 GB drive. I bought mine for $200 with a 1-year contract with DirecTV. I don't think DirecTV sells this model anymore, but their HR20 is similar and goes for $299.

How much extra per month do you pay for DVR functionality? $5 a month is $60 extra in just a year, $10 a month is $120. Does it have streaming from your computer wirelessly? Ethernet?

In the end, if all you want is DVR, Apple does not have a product for you and, I suspect, never will. Since they announced it months ago (was it September?), it was very clear that it would not have this functionality. I cannot believe people are still getting disappointed about that. This is Airport Express with iTunes video.

But my main point is, why can Apple combine the best of what their aTV is, with the functions of a good DVR? Even if it cost $US800, it'd be a killer piece of hardware.
Kill whom? $800 product would not sell many, the only killing would be Apple's profits.

balamw
Jan 9, 2007, 07:05 PM
I'd love to see Tivo/D* continue their relationship. Sadly, they probably won't, and I'll probably follow Tivo to the Series3 and Comcast when my HR10-250's die or D* turns them off.

Yeah, I guess I missed the HR20 OTA activation party since I don't have one :p

I'm seriously considering FiOS TV and a Series 3 when my DTV commitment is over or DTV turns off my TiVos. I've priced it out and it looks like I could break even (including the TiVo fee) and get the same channels with better PQ.

B

smueboy
Jan 9, 2007, 07:17 PM
In the end, if all you want is DVR, Apple does not have a product for you and, I suspect, never will. Since they announced it months ago (was it September?), it was very clear that it would not have this functionality. I cannot believe people are still getting disappointed about that. This is Airport Express with iTunes video.

Kill whom? $800 product would not sell many, the only killing would be Apple's profits.


I'm sure many people would pay $800 for something that does what the $800 TiVo does PLUS what the aTV does in one package. I sure would, anyway.

But then, i like multi-function gadgets. Hence the iPhone (which is in essence an iPod, phone, camera, mobile os x) is a great idea [assuming it works as well as it promises to].

macEfan
Jan 9, 2007, 07:24 PM
iTV looks great, hopefully some day I can buy one.....

nice and small, and nice and powerful....

these remind me of apple's STB which they made in the mid 1990's... lets hope this one is a lot more successful!

looks like apple TV will be a big hit...

bilbo--baggins
Jan 9, 2007, 07:40 PM
No. We don't have enough information about your TV to know what connections it has. What is the maker and the model?

Mine is a Loewe Xelos 28" CRT widescreen TV. It has 2 x SCART, S-Video, composite video (plus co-axial aerial input). Any idea whether there is an adapter cable to connect to any of these inputs?

Stella
Jan 9, 2007, 07:48 PM
Waste of time, especially if your outside the states - no movie content from iTunes.

An expensive Airport Express Video.

This device could be good if Apple hadn't crippled it - i.e., no DIVX etc.

jesteraver
Jan 9, 2007, 07:56 PM
Waste of time, especially if your outside the states - no movie content from iTunes.

+1

Anyone know when it be available in Canada.

Who knows how much money Apple losing.

One thing I see this doing for me, if I download any type of movie/music from a torrent site I transfer it to the Apple TV. So I can watch it on a bigger tv and what not.

Thinking of it now, I wont get it.

Atleast now I can stop thinking of how I would use it.

mandoman
Jan 9, 2007, 08:06 PM
Thanks but no thanks. I'll buy a mini instead, whenever they
get around to updating them...

islanders
Jan 9, 2007, 08:15 PM
DirecTV HR10-250 (http://www.shopping.com/xPC-Hughes-Hughes-3-Room-System-1-HR10-250-200-Hour-STD-35-Hour-HDTV-DIRECTV-High-Definition-DVR-w-TiVo-) Tivo does all the above, with a stock 250 GB drive. I bought mine for $200 with a 1-year contract with DirecTV. I don't think DirecTV sells this model anymore, but their HR20 is similar and goes for $299.

-Sean

For new service DVR HD, itís a two year contract from direct TV, and $299, and you have to return the DVR when you terminate the service. You pay $299 for a rental fee. You donít even own it. Then when you need to upgrade the two dishes you have on the roof, that is even more out of pocket.

Comcast has DVR HD, with no contract and the HD DVR is free. You also get video on demand.

But even with Comcast, the premium channels are $20 for two, or $14 for one.

So if you could simply download HD movies (720p is HD) then that would be a good service.

As the other functions such as using your flat panel tv to display pictures, or possibly video conference.

flir67
Jan 9, 2007, 08:18 PM
has anyone noticed the frame rate specs for the itv.

1280X720 is 24fps-- isn't that kinda low for today standards??? isn't the minimum without flicker 20fps???? with todays technology and the gaming industry the frame rate should be much higher shouldn't it.

just my 2 cents.

bilbo--baggins
Jan 9, 2007, 08:23 PM
has anyone noticed the frame rate specs for the itv.

1280X720 is 24fps-- isn't that kinda low for today standards??? isn't the minimum without flicker 20fps???? with todays technology and the gaming industry the frame rate should be much higher shouldn't it.

just my 2 cents.

I thought the standard specification for NTSC was 24fps, and PAL is 30 (or vice versa). Could be wrong though...

macEfan
Jan 9, 2007, 08:25 PM
So then if I understand correctly, the iTV will NOT work with a

sony 27" flatscreen CRT tv, right?? it does have component video...

darn, I might just have to get a new tv now also....

pdpfilms
Jan 9, 2007, 08:25 PM
I thought the standard specification for NTSC was 24fps, and PAL is 30 (or vice versa). Could be wrong though...

Nope, NTSC is 29.97fps. But all films you see in theaters and on DVD are 24fps. It's normal.

bommai
Jan 9, 2007, 08:27 PM
ok so i have bought the iTV but my iMac is within reach of my TV.......can anyone tell me how to connect my 24" iMac effectively to a tosh 27wl56?

The input choices are HDMI or Component (RGB)

Thanks

EDIT: Oh and to be able to use front row on the TV

If your iMac is within reach of your TV and your iMac is a recent one like the G5 or the Core Duo / Core 2 Duo, and your TV has HDMI or DVI input, just buy a DVI to HDMI cable. You can get these from http://www.monoprice.com for less than $10. Just connect it, set the TV to HDMI input and your Mac should automatically detect it as a second monitor. My power mac G4 does that pretty well. You don't even need an iTV if you have a recent imac with Front Row. Just use the Front Row with your imac on the TV. I am sure there is a hack to make Front Row use your TV instead of the built-in display.

Carl Spackler
Jan 9, 2007, 08:27 PM
I thought the standard specification for NTSC was 24fps, and PAL is 30 (or vice versa). Could be wrong though...

24fps is the frame rate of motion picture film. Go to the movies and you're seeing 24fps. PAL is 25p or 50i. NTSC is 30p or 60i


... i.am.slow.

mrploddy
Jan 9, 2007, 08:28 PM
Till Apple releases TV and Movie stores for outside of the US, the iTV will be of limited appeal / probably will flop in the likes of the UK.

I know that people will reply to this and say "BUT YOU CAN CONVERT THEM".

Yeah so?. I buy itunes for convenience. Why bother spending time converting a DVD when i can just go to tesco, pay £20 and get a cheap DVD player. It's much less hassle than spending 4 or 5 hours or more depending on settings converting a movie to itunes format. Also if your DVD collection is 30 - 40 DVD's, how long is it gonna take to convert everything?

To me it's not worth the effort, I'll take the cheap far east import DVD player thanks.

WHEN theres a movie store in the UK THEN it will be successful. You pay the Apple premium for ease of use and convenience and instant gratification, not to spend 30 - 40 hours watching your Mac convert your DVD's :/

-mrploddy

twoodcc
Jan 9, 2007, 08:30 PM
It seems interesting, but I don't like the pricetag, it just seems like a second computer.

it does seem interesting, and i don't like the pricetag too much either. seems for that price it should at least have a bigger hard drive. i guess it could seem kinda like a second computer.....depends on how you look at it

EricNau
Jan 9, 2007, 08:33 PM
Did anyone notice that the Music section of the iTV description says "Stream up to 9,000 songs"?????

9,000?? Are you kidding? What if I have more on my computer...???
Under the tech specs, under storage it has listed 40 GB hard drive - "Up to 9,000 songs."

So when they say, "Apple TV lets you browse and play up to 9,000 songs...", I believe they are implying "store" not "stream".

Motley
Jan 9, 2007, 08:35 PM
Yeah, I'll pass for now.
Since we're all stating what's lacking, here's what I want:
-I'd really like to hook it up to a stone age standard def tv. I have a couple that won't being going anywhere for quite a few years.
-More codec options.

Not really that much to ask for, right?

macEfan
Jan 9, 2007, 08:38 PM
Yeah, I'll pass for now.
Since we're all stating what's lacking, here's what I want:
-I'd really like to hook it up to a stone age standard def tv. I have a couple that won't being going anywhere for quite a few years.
-More codec options.

Not really that much to ask for, right?

yeah, I want my old CRT tv to be compatable also :D

recording capabilities would also make me jump at the change to buy one of these... I guess I'll end up waiting for rev 2, so apple can get rid of any/all bugs that exist...

Anyone know if the iTV uses a 1.8" or 2.5" hard drive?

islanders
Jan 9, 2007, 08:44 PM
I donít think this is right for everyone, but in several years it could take off.

This could appeal to both high end users who want more control. Kids might like the interactive features and parents know its safe.

And budget conscience people, who in two years will be fine with limited cable or no cable, and have this on the side.

Right now Iím paying about $80 a month and half the channels are analog. So when itís all digital I could see $40 a month for the package I want and something on the side like iTV for renting extra movies.

iTunes might be kinda fun, too.

Xenious
Jan 9, 2007, 08:46 PM
So in the keynote Steve says the output resolution is max 720p. On the web site it says it can also do 1080i. So which is right? I have a screwy plasma tv which only does 480i,p or 1080i on the component/hdmi inputs (don't ask me why ahah, it actually does 720p on the front VGA input). So if it CAN do 1080i I'm a happy camper, but if it can only do 720p that means 480p max for me and I'm not so happy.

(don't get me started about all the $#@$#@ PS3 games that aren't coded for 1080i. haha)

cheunghy
Jan 9, 2007, 08:47 PM
No mention about which Intel processor it is using. Even on the Tech Specs page, it only writes 'Intel Processor'...

krafix
Jan 9, 2007, 08:50 PM
It looks a lot like a Toshiba I had in my lab. Unfortunately that monitor is right now at CES so I can't say for sure...

Funny, I bought this exact model a year ago... Sony Bravia, got the 40in. size. There are 2 Bravia series I think one doesnt have XBR or whatever. Quite expensive but its one of the most incredible product I ever bought, just love it. And I'm happy to realize its gonna be up to date for quite a while.

islanders
Jan 9, 2007, 09:00 PM
Right now about 1% of people watching TV own a Mac?

So if 5% of people watching TV bought the iTV it would outsell Macs by 500%.

My numbers might be a little off but you get the idea. Not everyone needs to buy it for it to make money for Apple, and add value to the Mac experience.

Carl Spackler
Jan 9, 2007, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I'll pass for now.
Since we're all stating what's lacking, here's what I want:
-I'd really like to hook it up to a stone age standard def tv. I have a couple that won't being going anywhere for quite a few years.
-More codec options.

Not really that much to ask for, right?

I couldn't agree more. I'd like to know the definitive answer on what types of TVs this will connect to. Mine has component but is still interlaced and not 16:9. I'm guessing once they are released, someone will attempt to connect it to an non-widescreen set. These are really the only two things holding me back. One would imagine that there could be some software hack to allow a more robust playback.

~Shard~
Jan 9, 2007, 09:43 PM
No mention about which Intel processor it is using. Even on the Tech Specs page, it only writes 'Intel Processor'...

It's probably just one of those crappy Core 2 Quad chips... :p ;) :D

bbruneau
Jan 9, 2007, 10:06 PM
I doubt that I'll get an Apple TV until Apple:

* bumps up the hard drive to 100 GB;

* adds a TV subscription plan that somewhat resembles cable and satellite's pricing and content models;

* edges down the price (gradually) to $199; and

* allows me to rent movies for $4 for 24 hours.

The current offering just doesn't give me anything I don't already have. Apple is either going to have to match cable's pricing and availability or give me something that cable can't to get me into an Apple TV.

The key downer for me (iTunes and now AppleTV) is having to buy movies....I have a pile of DVDs that I've watched once, maybe twice, and yet I rent out 1-2 films every week. I agree with the $4/24hrs, and if there really is no surround, then to hell with it.

ipedro
Jan 9, 2007, 10:07 PM
For a person who only needs to stream from one computer and listen to their music and watch video on their TV, what benefits does the Apple TV offer over a MacMini?

Aside from HD, I didn't see anything in the menu system that you can't do with Front Row via a Mac Mini.

A Mac Mini is at least a fully fledged second computer with a bigger hard drive and a DVD player! I was hoping that the Apple TV would at least have a DVD player as I've resisted getting one because I watch all my DVDs on my MacBook Pro anyway.

-::ubermann::-
Jan 9, 2007, 10:08 PM
i think its unnecessary, why dont just connect computer to a hdtv?

if i use appletv i can see movies, photos, podcasts...
if i just connect my computer i can see everything is in my computer not having to do hacks to play divx for example...

smadd
Jan 9, 2007, 10:24 PM
You know, I was so psyched about the iTV back during the Media Event, and I was hoping that they would include some kind of optical drive in it: at minimum a DVD player, max a combo or SuperDrive. I wanted the AppleTV to be a packaged complete solution for digital entertainment on your TV. I am not trying to undercut the coolness of streaming from my computer to the unit, but with only a 40GB hard drive, it just won't hold all of my media - I will have to pick and choose, and eventually, take some material off to make way for others. I feel that for $299, that it's not a good compromise. Right now (albeit, not at HD resolutions) I go through s-video and digital audio into my TV/audio receiver from my C2D MBP, and can have EVERYTHING on the TV with out compromising. I just can't see what the Apple TV is going offer to do that my computer can't besides 1. convenience and 2. HD video (which yes, is an important step, but not worth it IMO). I was hoping that the USB 2.0 port on the back was indicative of being able to attach a hard drive or an extrenal optical drive, but it's just for service access; no end-user features are indicated for it at this point.

I guess I will wait and see how this evolves... man I wish it had an optical drive! It could have been the ultimate Mac-Lover all-in-one multimedia solution, but it's only halfway there.

I was a hell of a lot more excited about the new Airport base station, to be honest.

gkarris
Jan 9, 2007, 10:40 PM
You know, I was so psyched about the iTV back during the Media Event, and I was hoping that they would include some kind of optical drive in it: at minimum a DVD player, max a combo or SuperDrive. I wanted the AppleTV to be a packaged complete solution for digital entertainment on your TV. I am not trying to undercut the coolness of streaming from my computer to the unit, but with only a 40GB hard drive, it just won't hold all of my media - I will have to pick and choose, and eventually, take some material off to make way for others. I feel that for $299, that it's not a good compromise. Right now (albeit, not at HD resolutions) I go through s-video and digital audio into my TV/audio receiver from my C2D MBP, and can have EVERYTHING on the TV with out compromising. I just can't see what the Apple TV is going offer to do that my computer can't besides 1. convenience and 2. HD video (which yes, is an important step, but not worth it IMO). I was hoping that the USB 2.0 port on the back was indicative of being able to attach a hard drive or an extrenal optical drive, but it's just for service access; no end-user features are indicated for it at this point.

I guess I will wait and see how this evolves... man I wish it had an optical drive! It could have been the ultimate Mac-Lover all-in-one multimedia solution, but it's only halfway there.

I was a hell of a lot more excited about the new Airport base station, to be honest.

Your MBP was about $2,000. The AppleTV's only $299....

shen
Jan 9, 2007, 11:18 PM
i have been reading the negative posts on this an the phone, after my wife and i were both totally blown away by both, most of you hate them....

then i went back and read thread 500 about the original iPod. i now have no idea at all why i read these forums.

i think i am done here.....

...but i am buying both products. go figure.

XFce
Jan 9, 2007, 11:23 PM
1080p format is the future of high definition television. If Apples new i Tv is not capable of producing movies in Blu-ray 1080p format, then I am not going to waste my money, Iíll buy the phone instead.

dmelgar
Jan 9, 2007, 11:53 PM
For a person who only needs to stream from one computer and listen to their music and watch video on their TV, what benefits does the Apple TV offer over a MacMini?

Aside from HD, I didn't see anything in the menu system that you can't do with Front Row via a Mac Mini.

A Mac Mini is at least a fully fledged second computer with a bigger hard drive and a DVD player! I was hoping that the Apple TV would at least have a DVD player as I've resisted getting one because I watch all my DVDs on my MacBook Pro anyway.

I agree. And with the Mini, I've read reports that you can view 1080p H.264 video.... although I've heard varying reports. I'd feel more comfortable if the Mini came with the Core 2 Duo processor and 802.11n capability.

Plus with a Mini you can
- View DVDs from the included drive.
- You can expand to include TV reporting via Elgato or others.
- Add external harddrives
- You can view videos from the internet, ie YouTube etc.
- You can surf the internet, generally use it as a computer with your HDTV as the monitor. This is great for kids that you don't want surfing the net in their room.

Based on this announce, I'm pretty convince I want to buy a Mini when Leopard comes out. I hope they upgrade it to Core 2 Duo by then. Then hopefully I'll have a PC that will function as an HDTV gateway for years to come.

Umbongo
Jan 10, 2007, 12:23 AM
I'm not really that clued up on TVs, but is there a reason Apple went with widescreen TVs only? They have under 20% market share in the US as far as I know, is there some compelling technical aspect that I'm missing?

0010101
Jan 10, 2007, 12:29 AM
For $299, i'll pass.. and just burn anything I wanna watch on my TV that's on my computer to DVD and play it in my DVD player.. or buy a USB to composit video adapter and string a cable across the room.

When they start showing up on eBay for $100 or less when the product flops, i'll buy one and see about hacking it for use as a file server or low cost OSX file server or general purpose eMail and web browser.

grovertdog
Jan 10, 2007, 12:39 AM
For $299, i'll pass.. and just burn anything I wanna watch on my TV that's on my computer to DVD and play it in my DVD player.. or buy a USB to composit video adapter and string a cable across the room.

When they start showing up on eBay for $100 or less when the product flops, i'll buy one and see about hacking it for use as a file server or low cost OSX file server or general purpose eMail and web browser.

Whatever dude... You get on with your bad hacking self. Anyone who would even consider using composite connections shouldn't even be commenting on this technology.

Jeez, where do these rags come from?

0010101
Jan 10, 2007, 01:26 AM
Whatever dude... You get on with your bad hacking self. Anyone who would even consider using composite connections shouldn't even be commenting on this technology.

Jeez, where do these rags come from?

What kind of technology is it your talking about, Mr. Tech Savvy? It's a freaking hobbled MacMini with component video and no media drive.

For the vast majority of people in the U.S. who do NOT have HD tv's yet, I fail to see what good HD outupt is going to do them.

Without some way to play discs, and no Tivo-esque capabilities, Apple TV is about the dumbest idea since the CueCat scanner.. and I predict will meet the same fate.

iDave
Jan 10, 2007, 01:42 AM
1080p format is the future of high definition television. If Apples new i Tv is not capable of producing movies in Blu-ray 1080p format, then I am not going to waste my money, Iíll buy the phone instead.
Sure, 1080p may be the distant future. In the meantime, people are just getting into HDTV and the vast majority of HDTVs sold are 720p. I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Sounds like the AppleTV isn't for you, but it'll be more than adequate and useful for others.

Evangelion
Jan 10, 2007, 02:18 AM
while the macrumors news post does say "stream," apple's website for the appletv does not ANYWHERE that I can find say that it streams content FROM other computers on the fly. It in fact says "sync" everywhere I want it to say "stream."

You can sync itunes from one computer and you can stream from five computers. The website clearly says:

"Apple TV streams as well as it syncs, so you can pair up to five additional computers and let friends and family stream their iTunes libraries to your TV. Apple TV stores up to 50 hours of video, ready to watch when you are. And if iTunes is still syncing what you want to see ó or if you donít want to sync at all ó you can watch a stream from your computer right away."

risc
Jan 10, 2007, 02:31 AM
If it has support for other video and audio codecs (xvid, divx, ogg, ac3 etc) and also supports playback and recording of El Gato EyeTV TV for any Mac in the house I'm in. Hell I'll buy 2, but if it doesn't the device is nothing more than a pointless iTunes extender.

teme
Jan 10, 2007, 02:43 AM
If it doesn't support more than few video formats, that's like iPod without MP3 support... so no thanks, I don't need it.

MacPhilosopher
Jan 10, 2007, 03:32 AM
I agree with some of the earlier concerns. How good is the Apple movie resolution now? Also, why not have input from other souces with conversion? That would have truly made this a media hub. Also, I agree that a pumped up Mini would have been a better option. With the big flat panel TV's it would be a nice multimedia hub/computer/web device.

skunk
Jan 10, 2007, 03:35 AM
I'm not really that clued up on TVs, but is there a reason Apple went with widescreen TVs only? They have under 20% market share in the US as far as I know, is there some compelling technical aspect that I'm missing?In Jobs' words, that's "where the puck is going to be, not where it is."

MacPhilosopher
Jan 10, 2007, 03:42 AM
has anyone noticed the frame rate specs for the itv.

1280X720 is 24fps-- isn't that kinda low for today standards??? isn't the minimum without flicker 20fps???? with todays technology and the gaming industry the frame rate should be much higher shouldn't it.

just my 2 cents.

The human ability to perceive the differences in frame rates are minimal. Super high fame rates/refresh rates in games and video cards are just to fool consumers into buying new gear. They blew past the threshhold years ago. I used to have a friend that spent a fortune on Audio gear that equalized sound well above and below human hearing. If you can't hear it or see it than you were fooled into spendin g money. Granted, NTSC and PAL are pitiful signals. The quality of DVD's and Digital Cable have more than made up for that limitation, though.

JonasLondon
Jan 10, 2007, 04:44 AM
40 GB hard drive? Too small, in my humble opinion. It should have at least a 100 GB hard drive to be useful.

Do you need to watch more than 40 GB per day? poor thing. The whole idea is that the 40GB stores what you are ABOUT to watch soon, not your entire library...

pjo
Jan 10, 2007, 05:33 AM
So, a $300 box that brings iTunes to my TV?

No thanks.

Include DVR functionality and a slot loading DVD drive and then we can talk.

That more or less nails my sentiments about this. And as has been said previously in many places... it kind of makes the mac mini the way to go.

Evangelion
Jan 10, 2007, 05:57 AM
That more or less nails my sentiments about this. And as has been said previously in many places... it kind of makes the mac mini the way to go.

Well, there are few problems with Mac Mini:

- Keyboard and mouse
- no HDMI
- More expensive
- External power-brick

SweetOleMac
Jan 10, 2007, 06:12 AM
Sorry i don't know if this has been said, but don't have the time to go through all these pages.

The ITV sounds great in the US, but since the UK does not have Movies & or TV Shows yet in ITunes, it's pretty useless.

We get the ITV and what can we do, oh...listen to audio and view our photo's.

Whoopee Dee Doo

JonasLondon
Jan 10, 2007, 06:19 AM
Sorry i don't know if this has been said, but don't have the time to go through all these pages.

The ITV sounds great in the US, but since the UK does not have Movies & or TV Shows yet in ITunes, it's pretty useless.

We get the ITV and what can we do, oh...listen to audio and view our photo's.

Whoopee Dee Doo

Well, quite certainly we WILL get movies here too (at least I am hoping for that big time!) - but in the meantime, why not rip your DVDs with Handbrake and watch those? That's what I'm going to do :-)

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 06:22 AM
I don't think I'm gonna buy one; I find it pretty useless... Now I just hook up my PowerBook and can watch anything I want (DivX, streams, you name it). I don't need a 'standalone device' for watching movies thtat even requires my PowerBook to stream to it and being able to view less than when I hook up my PowerBook directly. Also, I already have Airport Express for my iTunes so the audio part is not really necessary as well. And I certainly don't want to have to turn on my tv for listening to my music collection :S

Can't see the point in getting an Apple TV.

Evangelion
Jan 10, 2007, 06:23 AM
Sorry i don't know if this has been said, but don't have the time to go through all these pages.

The ITV sounds great in the US, but since the UK does not have Movies & or TV Shows yet in ITunes, it's pretty useless.

We get the ITV and what can we do, oh...listen to audio and view our photo's.

Whoopee Dee Doo

Again: you can play back all content that iTunes can play back. And that content does not have to be downloaded from iTMS. You could rip your DVD's to your computer, import them to iTunes and watch them with AppleTV.

SweetOleMac
Jan 10, 2007, 07:00 AM
Your correct, but i'll think i'll stick with my Kiss DP-600
Might not have a fancy interface, but at least i don't need ITunes.

Would have been nice of them to allow you to specify a folder for audio/images/movies, instead of having to have it all in ITunes.