Apple Announces The iPhone [Archive] - Page 4

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 12:09 PM

Do you think Tablet PC's are revolutionary? Cuz they've been out
for 10+ years w/ a touch screen interface, and I've yet to meet
someone who has one.

This is a tiny device that goes in your pocket. It has the ability to contain a load of media and not just that browsing looks acceptable (which is something you can't say about most mobile phones). Email looks nice and computer-like too. The thing syncs seemlessly to your main apple machine too.

Tablet PCs? huh? never used one and wouldn't want to. They are a niche product, this is a mobile phone. What do they have to do with this? They're single touch for a start, much bigger, not always connected....totally different beast when you scratch the surface.

And the whole "High end luxury" tag was why Apple sucked so much until
the past few years in the first place

Actually the other way around. The fact that Apple have tried to make cheaper and cheaper devices has arguably led to a lot of the QC issues that have marred the last year.

i was looking forward seeing a bit more of leopard,

You did, the iphone was running leopard. See that resolution independent interface?

Nym

Jan 10, 2007, 12:10 PM

For all the Apple flamers that are calling us "fanboys", go read the first iPod thread here on MR as stated by another user above, you are just repeating history, saying it sucks and it won't go anywhere, criticizing every single feature, well... in 2/3 years you'll all be reading your comments and thinking: "How could I have such lack of vision?"

iPhone is already ahead, in June it will be even more, and one can imagine where will it be 5 years from now, IMO it's gonna be a boom just like the iPod.

Macmadant

Jan 10, 2007, 12:12 PM

You did, the iphone was running leopard. See that resolution independent interface?

You can't say it's running the OSX, we have on our macs because it doesn't, it's a scaled down version, you couldn't just drag, Adium or other OSX apps onto it, because it won't work, anyway i'll give it two years before it's removed from the product line

petvas

Jan 10, 2007, 12:14 PM

I have just seen the keynote and I have to say that I was not impressed, I was amazed! This is the most revolutionary device that exists on earth.

Have you ever used a Pocket PC Phone Edition? If you have you will see that the "features" look alike...
Well, the truth is that Pocket PCs are slow, the interface isnt friendly at all and you have to used the stylus at some point or/and the keyboard.

I think that the iPhone is a winner because it has:

a very cool design
the best user interface
unique touchscreen technology
Amazing integration with many technologies
a fantastic screen
The most amazing feature found in a mobile web browser (zoom in and out by double tapping). Just see what Pocket Internet Explorer can do and die out laughing...
Easy of use

If that's not revolutionary, then what is it?

As far as the price concerns, I bought three months ago an iPaq hw6915 for 610 Euro. (no contract)
I think that if it would sell for 600 to 700 euro it would be ok

The only question I have is if it supports GPRS. Does anybody know?
EDGE isnt fully available in Germany yet...Maybe till the end of year it will be...

Nym

Jan 10, 2007, 12:15 PM

i'm almost certain, that this will fail, it will be another Cube, there is no market for it, and it's overpriced, only apple Fanboys like me and others on here are going to buy it, i would have preferred a new widescreen ipod, i got real excited when i saw that on the MR live page, but than disappointed when i heard it was a phone, it's a very beautiful and elegant thing with a stunning interface, but just like the cube, but i don't think it's going to have a place in the world, which is a shame

Like the iPod failed right? geez...

ki-goi

Jan 10, 2007, 12:15 PM

[about slide-out keyboard] :rolleyes:

no, but seriously, did you see the error rate on the keyboard while steve was typing? how many words had to be "corrected"? david pogue said the same thing on in his hands-on at NYT. accuracy'll be fixed but the trouble is partly that it's hard to touch type with the thing. no physical reference points, not even "home row" bumps. you have to keep looking at the keyboard. membrane keyboards at least have some ridges around the letters to keep you from drifting.

this from someone who does actual writing with palm graffiti 1.0. my gut feeling agrees that this thing is amazing and yet will not satisfy people who want to write several paragraphs. for real work i'd need an external keyboard.

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 12:17 PM

So before some of you characterises me as a fanboy I'll say this about the iPhone.

- To expensive (but do we really know the full cost, particularly in Europe?).

- Not 3G or more specifically HSDPA. This is a massive oversight. Wifi is becoming more widespread but that's still not an excuse. Us Europeans feel this more too, we have higher specced mobile phones here.

- Not enough storage. Double it and include a memory card slot.

Do I want one? Probably, we'll see when it's a fully available product. Until then this discussion can't really go anywhere. We don't know anything about the battery replacability, the real cost unlocked, the 3rd party software situation.....

You can't say it's running the OSX, we have on our macs because it doesn't, it's a scaled down version, you couldn't just drag, Adium or other OSX apps onto it, because it won't work, anyway i'll give it two years before it's removed from the product line

I can say what I like, sure it's conjecture but so is your last statement and most of what has been said on this thread.

Macmadant

Jan 10, 2007, 12:19 PM

Like the iPod failed right? geez...

i never said the ipod would fail i though it was amazing, but your talking about a already matured market, the HD music player market was only just beginning when apple released the ipod, your just assuming i thought the ipod was going to fail because others on here have said so, the ipod was totally different, and if the iphone fails as I've said, I'll dig up this thread the moment they discontinue it

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 12:24 PM

i never said the ipod would fail i though it was amazing, but your talking about a already matured market, the HD music player market was only just beginning when apple released the ipod, your just assuming i thought the ipod was going to fail because others on here have said so, the ipod was totally different, and if the iphone fails as I've said, I'll dig up this thread the moment they discontinue it

They are are going to have a tough time competing against what people see as 'free' phones it has to be said.

I always though the iPod would remain a niche device (like it did for the first year or so). Mainly due to the cost, I didn't figure that people will definitely pay extra for something they consider to be a status symbol (for better or worse). That is almost certainly the case with this phone.

Only us nerds flag up the daft omissions (see above). The rest of the non-tech world are marvelling at how pretty it looks and working out how to get one before their friends.

Romanesq

Jan 10, 2007, 12:28 PM

I'm 28. The only people who don't use SMS (as their primary form of non-business mobile communication) are my parents generation.*

Edit. *That's in Europe of course.

The "only" people apparently includes those who don't have anything else to do with their thumbs. I don't have any friends who text and on the rare occasion it does happen, I use it as an opportunity to ridicule them.

Of course for those who are at work and need to skunk around to contact people, well I guess people do need a secure way to keep the boss from knowing they are slacking.

Next time I hire someone, I'm going to ask to see their thumbs. It'll be like Rick Pitino at walk on day for college basketball. He would ask all those who showed up wearing dark socks to leave.

Call it a rule of thumb. :eek:

Romanesq

Jan 10, 2007, 12:33 PM

Wow, you'd struggle to get any girl to go out with you in Europe. Pretty much everyone texts here (and in Asia too).

The US can't possibly be this far behind surely? Or are you just an exception?

Well I did date a girl in Europe but it was all phone and trips via New York and Paris. As I recall she never texted me.

Of course culture changes and girls are always looking for ways to get attention. Texting provides a way to do that with lots of folks.

Kids here I think do the bulk of texting by far, like in the classroom. Them and the slacker generation that is smart enough to avoid emailing extensively via company email and live chat on the company computer.

When the Iphone does come out, it will definitely impact many things in many, many unforseen ways. But when I get it, it won't be for texting.

As for myself and friends, we have better things to do with our thumbs. :p

Nym

Jan 10, 2007, 12:34 PM

YOU never said that the iPod would fail but a lot of people here did and look at it now, 70%(??) market share?

You're all sending the iPhone to the firing squad and we're still 6 months away from it's public release...
That's what I'm saying, all the flaming and bashing is premature, It's one of the most amazing bits of technology I've seen in the last 10 years, seriously, even my anti-Mac friends drooled watching the keynote.

Just so you know, I have a POS Nokia cell phone and until this day I was happy with it, makes phone calls, sends SMS, that was enough for me until yesterday. I saw an industry revolution, a whole new concept, if you can't see it that way that's OK, we agree to disagree, but I tell you, in 6 years time (2001-2007) I've never seen a Phone that amazed me this way (not even when the RAZR hype came out!) However, once I saw the iPhone I knew where I'd be spending my money :)

Apple is going into uncharted territory wether you believe it or not. Breakthrough, that's the word!

Philsy

Jan 10, 2007, 12:38 PM

Well I did date a girl in Europe but it was all phone and trips via New York and Paris. As I recall she never texted me.

Of course culture changes and girls are always looking for ways to get attention. Texting provides a way to do that with lots of folks.

Kids here I think do the bulk of texting by far, like in the classroom. Them and the slacker generation that is smart enough to avoid emailing extensively via company email and live chat on the company computer.

When the Iphone does come out, it will definitely impact many things in many, many unforseen ways. But when I get it, it won't be for texting.

As for myself and friends, we have better things to do with our thumbs. :p

What an odd attitude. Why is texting not taken seriously in the USA? I use it for both personal and business – not a lot, but it is useful at times when a phone call is not required or convenient. It's a bit like email on the go, but easier. And if you have a Bluetooth phone, you can text via Address Book, thus giving your thumbs a rest. :)

nemaslov

Jan 10, 2007, 12:39 PM

Yes it is a bit expensive right now but like the first iPods the price will come down. But I assume they will have smaller cheaper NANO like versions that do less and satisfy that audience who does not want or need all of the features. I have and love my 80GB iPod but sure, I could pay less for a 4gb nano, but that does not fit my needs. The Nanos sell way more than the video iPods but you have a choice.

This thing is revolutionary...or it will be. Remember that Jobs always looks for seemingly simple solutions "no more than three steps to get everywhere on the device." Again it's the software and design stupid (to quote a Clinton campaign mantra).

No other company seems to comprehend that. And A ZUNED is still $350. dollars!!??

radio893fm

Jan 10, 2007, 12:40 PM

No fanfoyisms here (read some of my recent posts, I point out a lot of the shortcomings of the device). Honestly though, if you can't see the potential that's cool.

Go and see the Keynote. You have seen it right?

edit: remember thread 500?

I don't need to see the Keynote... I was there, 20 feet from Steve.

rajulkabir

Jan 10, 2007, 12:44 PM

The "only" people apparently includes those who don't have anything else to do with their thumbs. I don't have any friends who text and on the rare occasion it does happen, I use it as an opportunity to ridicule them.
The only people I know who don't primarily text are old Americans. So either that's who your friends are, or you have no friends.

Everyone else in the world is texting all day long. You can like it or not, but it's the truth.

I've seen texting in the US increase dramatically in the last few years as well. Sooner or later they'll catch up with everyone else. It's fast, you can do it without really interrupting the face-to-face interaction you're in the middle of, you have a record of what was said (say, if someone's texting you directions or a phone number), it isn't an interruption to the person you're contacting (unlike a voice call), it doesn't intrinsically demand immediate response so it's more polite, you can do it at odd hours without worrying about waking someone up, it's cheap when you're roaming internationally, it doesn't get garbled in marginal signal conditions, and it doesn't put you at risk of getting stuck in a longer conversation than you were interested in.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 12:53 PM

This is a tiny device that goes in your pocket. It has the ability to contain a load of media and not just that browsing looks acceptable (which is something you can't say about most mobile phones). Email looks nice and computer-like too. The thing syncs seemlessly to your main apple machine too.

Palm Treos & Blackberrys can already browse the internet. This
says it will give full internet access, but on Safari on EDGE cellular
networks? It will be super SLOWWWWW- just check out Pogues
initial impressions when he did his hands on.

Tablet PCs? huh? never used one and wouldn't want to. They are a niche product, this is a mobile phone. What do they have to do with this? They're single touch for a start, much bigger, not always connected....totally different beast when you scratch the surface.

This is doing for the Cell phone what Tablet PCs were to laptops-
its a touch screen interface. Its not that revolutionary considering
touch screens have been available for some time, & people still havent
accepted them

Actually the other way around. The fact that Apple have tried to make cheaper and cheaper devices has arguably led to a lot of the QC issues that have marred the last year.

You are misunderstanding me- Apple was a niche company when it only made high priced gear. Business & stockwise, it sucked. Now with things like the iMac & Macbook, it is making products with more
value for the money, and is starting to be accepted by the masses.

This iPhone signals a return to niche products that are too expensive
for the typical consumer.

nemaslov

Jan 10, 2007, 12:55 PM

Palm Treos & Blackberrys can already browse the internet. This
says it will give full internet access, but on Safari on EDGE cellular
networks? It will be super SLOWWWWW- just check out Pogues
initial impressions when he did his hands on.

This is doing for the Cell phone what Tablet PCs were to laptops-
its a touch screen interface. Its not that revolutionary considering
touch screens have been available for some time, & people still havent
accepted them

You are misunderstanding me- Apple was a niche company when it only made high priced gear. Business & stockwise, it sucked. Now with things like the iMac & Macbook, it is making products with more
value for the money, and is starting to be accepted by the masses.

This iPhone signals a return to niche products that are too expensive
for the typical consumer.

Cell phones were once a niche product for rich people too. Look what happened.

Romanesq

Jan 10, 2007, 01:00 PM

What an odd attitude. Why is texting not taken seriously in the USA? I use it for both personal and business – not a lot, but it is useful at times when a phone call is not required or convenient. It's a bit like email on the go, but easier. And if you have a Bluetooth phone, you can text via Address Book, thus giving your thumbs a rest. :)

Can't speak for the whole US, it is 300 million folks after all, but yes we do have bluetooth on many phones but I'm not familiar with Address Book and how this allows your thumbs to be more useful.

I think here, especially in business, short emails are the rule. If you want to be sure you are in line with someone, an email to their biz email is the way most go. Texting to a phone may not be timely. Some people do not have their mobile with them all the time at work, or even on. Of course there is the battery issue and you might be trying to confirm something like a meeting and they just never see it.

I just look at texting as time consuming. That's just me and going through that keypad scrolling each button on the phone to get a letter is tedious beyond belief.

But then again, my touch typing is probably near 70 words a minute.
Most other folks are somewhat competent on a keyboard as well.
When you consider that many people can send text to a phone via email, and consider the speed difference, well many of us have a long non-arthritic future for our thumbs, what can I say.

Does that give you a better picture?

The only people I know who don't primarily text are old Americans. So either that's who your friends are, or you have no friends.

Everyone else in the world is texting all day long. You can like it or not, but it's the truth.

I've seen texting in the US increase dramatically in the last few years as well. Sooner or later they'll catch up with everyone else. It's fast, you can do it without really interrupting the face-to-face interaction you're in the middle of, you have a record of what was said (say, if someone's texting you directions or a phone number), it isn't an interruption to the person you're contacting (unlike a voice call), it doesn't intrinsically demand immediate response so it's more polite, you can do it at odd hours without worrying about waking someone up, it's cheap when you're roaming internationally, it doesn't get garbled in marginal signal conditions, and it doesn't put you at risk of getting stuck in a longer conversation than you were interested in.

Guess you consider anyone over 30 old. Texting is S-L-O-W and detrimental to one's thumbs. Who wants arthritis in their digits when they turn 40?

Most of what you are talking about can be sent faster via email. Email to email or email to phone. And you don't have to screw up your most important digit to do it.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 01:00 PM

I have just seen the keynote and I have to say that I was not impressed, I was amazed! This is the most revolutionary device that exists on earth.

I think that the iPhone is a winner because it has:

a very cool design
the best user interface
unique touchscreen technology
Amazing integration with many technologies
a fantastic screen
The most amazing feature found in a mobile web browser (zoom in and out by double tapping). Just see what Pocket Internet Explorer can do and die out laughing...
Easy of use

If that's not revolutionary, then what is it?

The only real advantage this has over other phones is its
prettier-

People prefer having real keyboards- not touch screens that
scratch up & are super hard to type on.

There are few things you can do on iPhone than you cant already
do today on mobile phones.

On a Treo/ Blackberry you can already:

-Surf internet
-Get email
-Listen to Music
-Watch Videos

etc, etc etc,

With the iPhone, you also have to deal with:

$600 for something where 95% of its features are overkill?

Plus being trapped in a 2 year contract?

Plus paying $80+ for a data plan on top of Cell Service?

Plus having to deal with crappy Cingular?

Plus having super slow internet browsing since
its uncompressed internet on non 3G network

Plus Having a screen that will be so scratch up, you
wont be able to see anything?

Plus not having enough memory for videos, & other media,

Plus having to deal w/ bugs bugs bugs of initial
apple products?

Plus knowing that the $600 device will be obsolete
the second you buy it?

I think I'll stick to my Pearl that I got FREE
from T-mobile

I already have a 30gb iPod, that I bought
for $150 so this is pointless.

Smells like the 2nd coming of Newton / PS3- Lots of Hype
but awful bugs & poor execution.

Apple is starting to drift from its core base...

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 01:06 PM

Cell phones were once a niche product for rich people too. Look what happened.

PDA's were once a niche product too- The Newton was one
of the 1st PDAs on the market, but Apple didnt know what
consumers wanted. Palm did, and their PDAs sold well,
while the Newton died.

A lot of Cell phone companies & cell phone carriers failed
in their ability to make it in the business.

Apple is putting all their "apples in one basket" with this
device.

I'm not saying it cant work, but it has a lot of factors stacked
against it.

Ugg

Jan 10, 2007, 01:07 PM

You can't say it's running the OSX, we have on our macs because it doesn't, it's a scaled down version, you couldn't just drag, Adium or other OSX apps onto it, because it won't work, anyway i'll give it two years before it's removed from the product line

Two years and Apple will have more than 1% of the market. Once again, this is only the introductory product. We don't even know the full details of what it is capable of yet. Pogue in his NYT review yesterday, said that there were a number of Apps that were "greyed" out and Jobs said they were still working on some aspects of it.

Your "predictions" are pretty lame.

Mitthrawnuruodo

Jan 10, 2007, 01:08 PM

Apple is putting all their "apples in one basket" with this device.Yeah, it's not like they still is going to sell Macs, Pro software, AirPorts and iPods... oh, wait... :rolleyes:

djstarrock

Jan 10, 2007, 01:10 PM

This is what it was like when the iPod was released. I wish I didn't live in the uk.

daysleeper

Jan 10, 2007, 01:13 PM

I think the iPod was successful in large part because of its catchy name and the incredible advertising campaign Apple has put together. I think they should have capitalized on this and called it the "iPod Phone". I bet a lot of people would be happier just *thinking* this is a 6G iPod, not a totally new product.

Along the same lines, I wonder if Apple had called this the "Porta-Mac" or "Mac Mobile" the people in here complaining about no mac news would change their tunes.

Ugg

Jan 10, 2007, 01:13 PM

I think here, especially in business, short emails are the rule. If you want to be sure you are in line with someone, an email to their biz email is the way most go. Texting to a phone may not be timely. Some people do not have their mobile with them all the time at work, or even on. Of course there is the battery issue and you might be trying to confirm something like a meeting and they just never see it.

I just look at texting as time consuming. That's just me and going through that keypad scrolling each button on the phone to get a letter is tedious beyond belief.

But then again, my touch typing is probably near 70 words a minute.
Most other folks are somewhat competent on a keyboard as well.
When you consider that many people can send text to a phone via email, and consider the speed difference, well many of us have a long non-arthritic future for our thumbs, what can I say.

Does that give you a better picture?

Texting is just one more tool for me to use. Personally I love it. It's great for short messages, it's immediate, I don't have to listen to someone's long winded voice mail message, etc, etc. Sure, there are times when it's not appropriate but there are a lot of times when it is.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 01:20 PM

Yeah, it's not like they still is going to sell Macs, Pro software, AirPorts and iPods... oh, wait... :rolleyes:

I meant their Cell phone business.

I already said Apple should stick to their core business- computers.

They still have a long ways to go marketshare wise before they are on the same footing as PC's.

The Cell phone market it probably the most volatile & competative market in electronics.

Add to that the politics of cell carriers, and 2 year contracts,and it
becomes a minefield for the inexperienced.

Apple still hasnt even got FCC clearance to sell this device,
or the legal right to use the name "iPhone" yet!

I think the iPod was successful in large part because of its catchy name and the incredible advertising campaign Apple has put together. I think they should have capitalized on this and called it the "iPod Phone". I bet a lot of people would be happier just *thinking* this is a 6G iPod, not a totally new product.

Along the same lines, I wonder if Apple had called this the "Porta-Mac" or "Mac Mobile" the people in here complaining about no mac news would change their tunes.

the iPod was successful in large part it because if its simplicity. The
iPhone is trying to do 10 things at once, in 10 new ways. Add to that
having to deal solely w/ Cingular, the $600 price, and 2 year contracts,
this may have been better off as a concept device.

Philsy

Jan 10, 2007, 01:28 PM

Can't speak for the whole US, it is 300 million folks after all, but yes we do have bluetooth on many phones but I'm not familiar with Address Book and how this allows your thumbs to be more useful.

I think here, especially in business, short emails are the rule. If you want to be sure you are in line with someone, an email to their biz email is the way most go. Texting to a phone may not be timely. Some people do not have their mobile with them all the time at work, or even on. Of course there is the battery issue and you might be trying to confirm something like a meeting and they just never see it.

I just look at texting as time consuming. That's just me and going through that keypad scrolling each button on the phone to get a letter is tedious beyond belief.

But then again, my touch typing is probably near 70 words a minute.
Most other folks are somewhat competent on a keyboard as well.
When you consider that many people can send text to a phone via email, and consider the speed difference, well many of us have a long non-arthritic future for our thumbs, what can I say.

Does that give you a better picture?

Enable Bluetooth in Address Book and click on a phone number and you get the option to send SMS message.

You know, maybe I'm old, but I've just realised I don't text with my thumbs, but rather a finger!

absurdio

Jan 10, 2007, 01:29 PM

The price tag and features of the iPhone reminds me of the early days of the iPod. It was way expensive for most of the people, but that changed a couple of years later. I expect the same will happen with the iPhone. The thing is packed with innovation but expensive for now. That won't hold true 2 years from now.

Yeh. Exactly right. The thing's pretty amazing, for sure, but for now it's too expensive and a bit exgtravagant for my needs. I'll wait for rev. B. The future looks amazing.

Edit: also, I'm terrified by the prospects of getting my grimy fingers all over a device on which I'm also supposed to be watching videos.

Macmadant

Jan 10, 2007, 01:40 PM

They are are going to have a tough time competing against what people see as 'free' phones it has to be said.

I always though the iPod would remain a niche device (like it did for the first year or so). Mainly due to the cost, I didn't figure that people will definitely pay extra for something they consider to be a status symbol (for better or worse). That is almost certainly the case with this phone.

Only us nerds flag up the daft omissions (see above). The rest of the non-tech world are marvelling at how pretty it looks and working out how to get one before their friends.

Maybe my logic needs rethinking, i've just seen Steve stalking about it on CNBC, and he seemed so happy about it, just something about the way he was talking about it, i haven't seen him this keen on anything for a while, maybe it's just the Reality Distortion Field, but who knows, if it does become a huge hit, i hope they don't forget the mac faithful that got them there, and i hope the mac doesn't suffer because of the iphone

buffsldr

Jan 10, 2007, 02:05 PM

Freakin' awesome!

Ugg

Jan 10, 2007, 02:15 PM

I already said Apple should stick to their core business- computers.

They still have a long ways to go marketshare wise before they are on the same footing as PC's.

The Cell phone market it probably the most volatile & competative market in electronics.

Add to that the politics of cell carriers, and 2 year contracts,and it
becomes a minefield for the inexperienced.

Apple still hasnt even got FCC clearance to sell this device,
or the legal right to use the name "iPhone" yet!

the iPod was successful in large part it because if its simplicity. The
iPhone is trying to do 10 things at once, in 10 new ways. Add to that
having to deal solely w/ Cingular, the $600 price, and 2 year contracts,
this may have been better off as a concept device.

The iPhone is a computer, your saying otherwise doesn't make it so.

Apple has never yearned to be the market leader. Look at Dell's razor thin margins and its depressed stock price. What's the point in being the largest computer maker if you don't make money?

Once again, this isn't simply a cell phone but a high end, portable computing device. Sure, the makers of cheap phones all have problems but the makers of premium products don't. See above.

Steve wouldn't have named it the iPhone if he wasn't assured of Apple being able to acquire the name.

Why would the FCC turn them down?

Just as the iPod and iTMS transformed music, so will the iPhone transform communication.

The way you are constantly trashing the iPhone makes me believe that you are nothing more than a shill for all the low end cell phone and computer makers out there.

If it weren't for Apple's constant innovation, we would still be in the dark ages of computers.

petvas

Jan 10, 2007, 02:19 PM

The only real advantage this has over other phones is its
prettier-

People prefer having real keyboards- not touch screens that
scratch up & are super hard to type on.

There are few things you can do on iPhone than you cant already
do today on mobile phones.

On a Treo/ Blackberry you can already:

-Surf internet
-Get email
-Listen to Music
-Watch Videos

etc, etc etc,

With the iPhone, you also have to deal with:

$600 for something where 95% of its features are overkill?

Plus being trapped in a 2 year contract?

Plus paying $80+ for a data plan on top of Cell Service?

Plus having to deal with crappy Cingular?

Plus having super slow internet browsing since
its uncompressed internet on non 3G network

Plus Having a screen that will be so scratch up, you
wont be able to see anything?

Plus not having enough memory for videos, & other media,

Plus having to deal w/ bugs bugs bugs of initial
apple products?

Plus knowing that the $600 device will be obsolete
the second you buy it?

I think I'll stick to my Pearl that I got FREE
from T-mobile

I already have a 30gb iPod, that I bought
for $150 so this is pointless.

Smells like the 2nd coming of Newton / PS3- Lots of Hype
but awful bugs & poor execution.

Apple is starting to drift from its core base...

The way you are comparing iPhone with all other Smartphones is unfair, as I see it. If I compare features with my iPaq 6915 then the differences arent that big. Its how these features work that make the iPhone so revolutionary. Just try surfing with Pocket Internet Explorer...
Just try running multiple apps on a pocket pc. The device slows down to an unusable state...
The interface is also not to be compared with anything else...
Having a keyboard is also nice but for most people that makes the device bulky and not very usable. Apple once again made the impossible.

The only thing that I dont like is the lack of UMTS and the price...

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 02:23 PM

....stuff about other mobile phones...

We disagree. It's all about the interface. As is OSX but possibly to a lesser extent due to what the iphone appears to be like (and that's saying something).

This iPhone signals a return to niche products that are too expensive
for the typical consumer.

No, too expensive for *you*. I guess you'll have to live with that if you want one or just not buy one if you don't.

These will sell like hot cakes. Millions of people are going to buy one.

Ironically I'm not sure if I will or not, it's pretty far from a perfect device in my eyes but the way this seems to be going is pretty encouraging.

hug

Jan 10, 2007, 02:34 PM

joshwest

Jan 10, 2007, 02:38 PM

i'm quite in love with it, i just wish apple as able to sell a unlocked version on their website for every provider. now that would of made me jump out of my seat.

LC III

Jan 10, 2007, 02:39 PM

I am very interested in the iPHONE but I am not crazy about Cingular as my cell phone service provider.

I've done several searchs and I can't find anything definitive stating the iPHONE is either LOCKED or UNLOCKED. I see a lot of speculation leading up to yesterday's introduction that the phone will be UNLOCKED but nothing about it afterwards. Maybe I am missing something..???

Perhaps one of you experts here can set me straight..????

:confused:

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 02:39 PM

We disagree. It's all about the interface. As is OSX but possibly to a lesser extent due to what the iphone appears to be like (and that's saying something).

What is this interface you are talking about? the fact you can
pinch your fingers & make pictures smaller on this thing?

How is the interface going to matter, when web pages take forever
to load since you will be browsing full web pages on super slow
networks?

I have a BB pearl, & I am more than satisfied w/ the internet
experience. If I need internet that badly, I'll buy a mobile broadband
card for my laptop- I wont spend $600 on an untested device
that will likely be obsolete well before your 2 year contract w/
CINGULAR expires

No, too expensive for *you*. I guess you'll have to live with that if you want one or just not buy one if you don't.

I'll have to "live with that"? The fact that I cant pinch my screen
to make web pages smaller?

I'm perfectly happy w/ my Blackberry pearl- it already has all
the internet/ phone/ email functionality I need.

I guess iPhone users will have to just "live with" the fact they
will have a terrible time typing w/o a tactile keyboard, and the
fact they'll need to live on foodstamps to pay for this thing &
voice/ data service.

These will sell like hot cakes. Millions of people are going to buy one.

Ironically I'm not sure if I will or not, it's pretty far from a perfect device in my eyes but the way this seems to be going is pretty encouraging.

Who are you to speak for millions, when you dont even know you
will buy it? I am 100% sure I will not buy the iPhone when it comes
out, so I have the credibility here.

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 02:40 PM

Wow iPhone is sexy, Ahead of the competition and down right genius but where is the market. Yes lots of mobile phones were sold last year and 1% share is ten million units but what market share in general does the smart phone market hold. I think roughly 1 million units would be more accurate to predict 1% market share in the smart phone market.

Would apple not be better off releasing two products:
1: iPod 80gb or higher with same UI as iPhone and same features such touch screen, photos, videos all done the same as iPhone. I just dont think 4gb or 8gb is enough to replace a video iPod so even if you do buy an iPhone and use your 80gb iPod as your music/video and photo center chances are you are still going to carry both products therefore making the ipod part of the phone useless. I beleive also this product should be the internet communicator. The 80gb or higher is better for all the internet has to offer. I am not a technical person (obviously) as maybe all this is to much to fit into one device. But it would be cool as F=@#

2: Sleek Small mobile phone Slightly Larger than nano but smaller than current iPod video. Same features as phone part of iPhone with same UI for phone features. Smaller and obviously still the camera and photo viewer. Smaller in size and therefore would open up a much larger market. Guarantee everyone who owns an iPod of any kind would buy this as a phone but dont think everyone will buy the iPhone in its current state.

Dont get me wrong the iPhone is brilliant but I think Apple has merged two markets phone/iPod into one and think they will lower the custom from each one. Two products would make a lot more people apple buyers and make apple a hell of a lot more money.

And Mr Jobs when do we get video products on itunes UK. Keep up the great work.

Blue Velvet

Jan 10, 2007, 02:41 PM

So I show selected edits from the keynote demo of the phone to colleagues — designers, web editors, journalists, managers, PAs, IT administrators — today and it was instant lust for every single one of them. It also lead to a interesting lunchtime conversation about the future of publishing when such devices are commonplace...

And the moment that had them all going 'wow' was 'the pinch'; the moment when Steve Jobs zoomed into that picture of the boy...

Make no mistake. This is a seriously important piece of hardware in the overall context of the evolution of mobile convergence devices just on the basis of its interface alone.

If you don't get it, there are other devices for you. I'm sure the CEOs of Nokia and Ericsson, amongst others, have plenty of food for thought this week, even if you don't.

BRLawyer

Jan 10, 2007, 02:43 PM

Some of you don’t seem happy with the announcement of the iPhone at this year’s keynote. You’re not catching the vision. Jobs stated right at the first of the keynote that this keynote address was going to be about something besides the Mac. Mac stuff would come later. There will be many new Mac, software, and iPod announcements coming soon. The first 30 years just a beginning. Welcome to 2007. That wasn’t on the Apple home page exclusive for the iPhone.

The iPhone is big. Not just for the iPhone but for what technology has been developed for the other Apple products. Do you think a full screen, high resolution, touch sensitive, and WIFI iPod is very far away? All you have to do is strip down the iPhone and you have one. We will be seeing this from Apple within six months.

How about OS X running on the iPhone. This means that other applications will be able to run as well. It’s just a matter of time before other OS X applications will show up on the iPhone making it even more functional.

How about the touch technology in the iPhone. It’s just a matter of time, (six to eight months) before Apple includes this with laptops and iMacs. Just think of having an option of using either the mouse or your finger to move things around the screen.

The rumor was that Apple was going to introduce new monitors during this year’s keynote. Why so many rumors on something that isn’t that big. The reason is that Apple will soon release some new monitors and they will have the touch technology that the iPhone has. My bet is that they are working on the applications now to work with the touch technology.

So many new products from Apple will come out soon with the touch technology. By soon I mean 2007. The first 30 years just a beginning. Welcome to 2007.

EXACTLY.

One may say the following about this keynote:

1 - It's the most moving keynote EVER.

2 - SJ was on fire, and extremely honest in his remarks...I've never seen him so good in terms of performance.

3 - the iPhone is a monumental thing, at the same height as the Apple II, the Mac and the iPod...a truly AWESOME product that cannot be compared to ANY crappy PDA or smartassphone out there...it simply has no competitors, apart from the carrier restrictions, lack of immediate availability in Europe and other markets and price (for some). This is already an icon, with a mindblowing UI and paradigm. Thank you, Apple, for another ****ING AMAZING gadget.

I wasn't even worried about an iPhone...but it simply ROCKS, I must say.

4 - The Beatles are REAL at Apple...the keynote just confirmed that, and the announcement will follow.

5 - I just hope that new Macs are announced soon as well, as we still wait for a small MBP and updated towers...

Once more, THANKS Apple for an awesome keynote...it was the most brilliant one, for old and new users alike. And yeah, shove it MS, MS fanboys and PC apologists...there is simply no comparison with Apple. :D

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 02:49 PM

The iPhone is a computer, your saying otherwise doesn't make it so.

A blackberry/ Treo is as much of a computer as a iPhone. If I want
a real computer, I'll spend the $600 for a used laptop.

Apple has never yearned to be the market leader. Look at Dell's razor thin margins and its depressed stock price. What's the point in being the largest computer maker if you don't make money?

If Apple is trying to swim upstream by pissing off cell phone
carriers, it is just one more obstacle to the success of this device.

Once again, this isn't simply a cell phone but a high end, portable computing device. Sure, the makers of cheap phones all have problems but the makers of premium products don't. See above.

IMO its only premium in its looks. As far as functionality, I am fine w/
a Blackberry/ Treo. A ferrari is a premium product too, but
Toyota outsells it 100 to 1. & a Toyota will get you there more
reliably than a Ferrari will.

Steve wouldn't have named it the iPhone if he wasn't assured of Apple being able to acquire the name.

Why would the FCC turn them down?

I'm just saying its not the slam dunk you guys claim it to be

Just as the iPod and iTMS transformed music, so will the iPhone transform communication.

How exactly will it transform communitcation ? Will it translate
your voice into a different language?
Will it let you talk to space aliens?? No- it cant really do anything
as far as email/ internet/ & phone that you cant already do w/
current technology. Touch screens have been out forever, &
the public hasnt accepted them. This is a pretty phone, this is a cool
phone, but its NOT a revolutionary phone.

The way you are constantly trashing the iPhone makes me believe that you are nothing more than a shill for all the low end cell phone and computer makers out there.

I'm just trying to cut through the hype in BS- I'm more impressed
in the the looks of the phone, & the fact Apple was able to keep this
all a secret than the actual functionality of the phone. W/ my current
phone I can already do email/ internet/ phone/ music / &Video.
The fact I dont have a touch screen is a GOOD THING imo.

If it weren't for Apple's constant innovation, we would still be in the dark ages of computers.

Being innovative is one thing, not serving the needs of the market
is another thing.

LC III

Jan 10, 2007, 02:54 PM

Overheard at the office:
"Jesus came back, and he's a phone now"

Ugg

Jan 10, 2007, 02:55 PM

Being innovative is one thing, not serving the needs of the market is another thing.

Do you own a Mac?

I find it highly suspicious that in the short time you've been here all you've done is trash Apple.

What market are you speaking of? One that is solely dedicated to your needs?

shecky

Jan 10, 2007, 02:57 PM

Being innovative is one thing, not serving the needs of the market is another thing.

apple not only serves needs of the market, it creates new ones. the original macintosh and the original iPod being just 2 examples. they just created a new market, and now we get to watch everyone else play catchup. in fact they have been playing catchup for the past couple of years and apple just passed them by.

do not let your own need to be the voice of distention cloud your opinions.

aiongiant

Jan 10, 2007, 02:59 PM

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 02:59 PM

Do you own a Mac?

I find it highly suspicious that in the short time you've been here all you've done is trash Apple.

What market are you speaking of? One that is solely dedicated to your needs?

I am typing this on a Macbook, & have a 30GB video ipod- which is
one more reason, I'm not going to spend $600 for something w/
the functionality of an iPod Nano

& I'm still waiting on a response to the 20 other points I made
to rebut your statements.

apple not only serves needs of the market, it creates new ones. the original macintosh and the original iPod being just 2 examples. they just created a new market, and now we get to watch everyone else play catchup. in fact they have been playing catchup for the past couple of years and apple just passed them by.

do not let your own need to be the voice of distention cloud your opinions.

It also created the Newton, the Cube, & other devices that no
one cares about anymore.

You seem to forget that just 10 years ago, Apple was a company no
one wanted to touch w/ a 20 foot pole.

I like many Apple products. The iPhone is not one of them

failsafe1

Jan 10, 2007, 03:02 PM

the iPhone is soo awesome!
unfortunetly it's locked to Cingular and for us here in Canada we might not get it anytime soon..

i hope Apple decides to sell an Unlock version at Apple stores or online even if it's a tad more expensive

Can't see anyone offering an unlocked version as OEM equipment. If the phone is locked I have posted earlier that there will probably be a way to get a third party supplier to unlock it. This is standard practice for almost every locked phone you buy. Either with a cable and software as a DIY project or for $25 or so from a shop.

It also created the Newton, the Cube, & other devices that no
one cares about anymore.

You seem to forget that just 10 years ago, Apple was a company no
one wanted to touch w/ a 20 foot pole.

I like many Apple products. The iPhone is not one of them

I think people still care about the Newton as seen by the multitudes who still use them. I also have 5 coworkers who seek out Cubes at the surplus warehouse here in town and buy all of them they can when the local University sends them to surplus.

BRLawyer

Jan 10, 2007, 03:05 PM

It also created the Newton, the Cube, & other devices that no
one cares about anymore.

You seem to forget that just 10 years ago, Apple was a company no
one wanted to touch w/ a 20 foot pole.

I like many Apple products. The iPhone is not one of them

Sorry, you are in the wrong place then...go visit microsoft.com...the iPhone just BLOWS anything related out of the water...it IS a breakthrough product and an instant icon...there is simply no way to overlook it...Apple has done a FANTASTIC job, and has created demand out of a static market...it simply RULES, and no Treos come close...it's just offensive to compare it with other PDAs, really.

shecky

Jan 10, 2007, 03:05 PM

It also created the Newton, the Cube, & other devices that no
one cares about anymore.

which preempted PDA's/smartphones and the mass popularity small form factor PC's, both of which many people do care about. now you are just being foolish and ignorant.

You seem to forget that just 10 years ago, Apple was a company noone wanted to touch w/ a 20 foot pole.

and this is relevant to this discussion how?

stop trying to compensate for your own insecurities by trolling; its really quite pathetic and very transparent.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:08 PM

Sorry, you are in the wrong place then...go visit microsoft.com...the iPhone just BLOWS anything related out of the water...it IS a breakthrough product and an instant icon...there is simply no way to overlook it...Apple has done a FANTASTIC job, and has created demand out of a static market...it simply RULES, and no Treos come close...it's just offensive to compare it with other PDAs, really.

You keep hyping it up, but give no real reason why it
is any better than a Treo or Blackberry. I love my Macbook,
but if I had to use a PC, I could still do 90% of the things I
needed to do.

& Its too bad youre in Switzerland, cuz you'll be lucky to get
one early 2008.

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 03:09 PM

I agree the two year contract is not a good thing. The average shelf life of a phone is 6 months, How many of us have bought a mobile then two weeks later a new one is out and we want that to. I guess it will not be able to be unlocked due to the voice mail features. If it is you will loose that feature.

Buy developing just a moble seperately from an Ipod/communicator they can sell communicator as mini laptop type thingy and phone can be developed into range of phones.

I disagree with apple making new markets they just find a market already established and just do it a hell of a lot better.

BRLawyer

Jan 10, 2007, 03:11 PM

You keep hyping it up, but give no real reason why it
is any better than a Treo or Blackberry. I love my Macbook,
but if I had to use a PC, I could still do 90% of the things I
needed to do.

& Its too bad youre in Switzerland, cuz you'll be lucky to get
one early 2008.

As someone else said, just the scrolling would be enough...there is simply no comparison with any of that ugly and complicated crap.

As for Europe, of course I can wait...until then I will use my contract with the RAZR, no prob...but the iPhone is awesome indeed.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:12 PM

which preempted PDA's/smartphones and the mass popularity small form factor PC's, both of which many people do care about. now you are just being foolish and ignorant.

Youre missing the point- just cuz something is a good product
doesnt mean the public is ready for it, or that Apple is the best
company to meet the needs of the market.

and this is relevant to this discussion how?

Its relevant cuz You seem to look at Apple as this invincible
juggernaut that can do no wrong when pre Steve Jobs &
John Ive it was a disaster area. With a few missteps, Apple
could still fall back to where it was 10 years ago.

stop trying to compensate for your own insecurities by trolling; its really quite pathetic and very transparent.

Why dont you tell that to the other hundred people who
have criticized the iPhone?

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 03:14 PM

You keep hyping it up, but give no real reason why it
is any better than a Treo or Blackberry.

How many times? It's all about the interface. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Get a Dooberry, why moan about what apple is doing? (well yeah apart from playing the usual troll game of bashing something and stubbornly ignoring all the alternative views).

Not many of us here are blindly saying this is all good (Cingular 2 year tie in!) but y'know if you don't see why people think it's cool, that's your loss dude.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:15 PM

As someone else said, just the scrolling would be enough...there is simply no comparison with any of that ugly and complicated crap.

My Macbook already has 2 finger scrolling. Touch screens have been
around for years- nothing revolutionary here.

As for Europe, of course I can wait...until then I will use my contract with the RAZR, no prob...but the iPhone is awesome indeed.

Its amazing how many iPhone fanboys wont even buy the iPhone right
when it comes out.

LC III

Jan 10, 2007, 03:17 PM

Posted from elsewhere:

My brother works for a mac securtity company in Vegas, and was at the keynote. He had about 5 mins hands on with the phone late yesterday, and according the Apple it WILL be an unlocked device, but the sale in June will only be from cingular (with minimum 2 year contract - there is NO discount to cingular business accounts, or with contract) with the apple store following about 8 weeks later.

So, it is unlocked, get it from cingular first, and if you get it from cingular first, be prepared to pay fullprice and shell out for a 2 year commitment.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:17 PM

How many times? It's all about the interface. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Get a Dooberry, why moan about what apple is doing? (well yeah apart from playing the usual troll game of bashing something and stubbornly ignoring all the alternative views).

Why moan? because its been hyped nonstop for the past 24 hours. Apple is hyping it as a "motorola, treo, blackberry Killer" when I call BS.

How many times can I repeat myself "There is nothing revolutionary
about a touch screen interface!!" Tablet PCS have been around for
years!

shecky

Jan 10, 2007, 03:17 PM

Youre missing the point- just cuz something is a good productdoesnt mean the public is ready for it, or that Apple is the bestcompany to meet the needs of the market.

the public is not ready for small form factor PC's or PDA's and smartphones? You should go talk to Shuttle and Palm about that. are you sure that is your argument here? i will let you go ahead and rethink that one.

Its relevant cuz You seem to look at Apple as this invincible juggernaut that can do no wrong when pre Steve Jobs &
John Ive it was a disaster area. With a few missteps, Applecould still fall back to where it was 10 years ago.

first of all, go look thru my other posts on other threads where i critique the iPhone. Apple is not remotely perfect. second of all, Apple 15 years ago is not who is making the iPhone. Apple of the past 2.5 years is. it is widely known that apple 15 years ago was making crap. thats not news, and again, not relevant here.

Why dont you tell that to the other hundred people who have criticized the iPhone?

because the other 100 people are not n00bs who feel the need to try to have a battle of wits while unarmed. that and i guess you just got lucky.

cazlar

Jan 10, 2007, 03:18 PM

The US can't possibly be this far behind surely? Or are you just an exception?
I'm about to move to the US for work, and have been researching lots of things. One strange thing (at least for me?) is that in the US, they charge for both sending an SMS, and receiving it too! Having to pay "twice" for every text might explain why it's not used as much. Also, what's to stop someone sending messages and costing you money, without being able to avoid it!

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:21 PM

Posted from elsewhere:

Quote:
My brother works for a mac securtity company in Vegas, and was at the keynote. He had about 5 mins hands on with the phone late yesterday, and according the Apple it WILL be an unlocked device, but the sale in June will only be from cingular (with minimum 2 year contract - there is NO discount to cingular business accounts, or with contract) with the apple store following about 8 weeks later.

So, it is unlocked, get it from cingular first, and if you get it from cingular first, be prepared to pay fullprice and shell out for a 2 year commitment.

I'll trust CNN before the heresay of someones brothers uncles cousins friend.

CNN Says the iPhone will be Cingular exclusive till 2009:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/09/technology/apple_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes

"Cingular, a unit of AT&T (up $0.17 to $33.98, Charts), will be Apple's sole U.S. partner. It's an exclusive multiyear agreement, which means no other carrier will be able to sell the iPhone through 2009."

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:26 PM

the public is not ready for small form factor PC's or PDA's and smartphones? You should go talk to Shuttle and Palm about that. are you sure that is your argument here? i will let you go ahead and rethink that one.

If you really think Apples only concern is creating a good device, you
are mistaken.

first of all, go look thru my other posts on other threads where i critique the iPhone. Apple is not remotely perfect. second of all, Apple 15 years ago is not who is making the iPhone. Apple of the past 2.5 years is. it is widely known that apple 15 years ago was making crap. thats not news, and again, not relevant here.

It is relevant because apple has made mistakes before, & IMO
is making a mistake on how it released the iPhone.

It should have created the Widescreen iPod 1st, then
tested the waters w/ a basic phone before betting the mortgage
on a device thats overpriced & overkill for 90% of consumers.

because the other 100 people are not n00bs who feel the need to try to have a battle of wits while unarmed. that and i guess you just got lucky.

I know more about technology & business than you could ever wish
to learn- dont pull this n00b Bull with me.

LC III

Jan 10, 2007, 03:29 PM

I'll trust CNN before the heresay of someones brothers uncles cousins friend.

CNN Says the iPhone will be Cingular exclusive till 2009:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/09/technology/apple_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes

"Cingular, a unit of AT&T (up $0.17 to $33.98, Charts), will be Apple's sole U.S. partner. It's an exclusive multiyear agreement, which means no other carrier will be able to sell the iPhone through 2009."

No other carriers as in cell phone service providers but phones can be bought elsewhere, or no other carriers as in no other sources for iPHONES..???

Blue Velvet

Jan 10, 2007, 03:31 PM

I know more about technology & business than you could ever wish to learn

Your knowledge against the collective wisdom and experience of the Apple board and all the people and partners who are in on this device? You're really straining here.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:31 PM

No other carriers as in cell phone service providers but phones can be bought elsewhere, or no other carriers as in no other sources for iPHONES..???

Show me a press release of Apple saying that & maybe I'll listen.

I'm not about to belive reposted heresay from someones uncles cousins brother on some random internet form called "Mac Rumors".

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 03:32 PM

Yes I think we all agree that product wise the iPhone is a great product. But yes Apple has almost made it to good and to many products in one. I would pay 300 of your US dollars for a fantastic Ipod and I would pay 200 of your us dollars for a 1 year contract Phone thats 500 dollars that more people would spend than 499 or 599 dollars (think thats right) that 10% of iPod or business owners might buy, Do your sums which is more. And I think they would be two very good products that many people would use instead of one very good product that not many will use.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:32 PM

Your knowledge against the collective wisdom and experience of the Apple board and all the people and partners who are in on this device? You're really straining here.

Right & how many cell phones has Apple release up to this point, other
than the failed MotoRokr? NONE

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 03:34 PM

Why moan? because its been hyped nonstop for the past 24 hours. Apple is hyping it as a "motorola, treo, blackberry Killer" when I call BS.

How many times can I repeat myself "There is nothing revolutionary
about a touch screen interface!!" Tablet PCS have been around for
years!

The hype was not from Apple.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. This is a multitouch touch screen. If you don't know what that means have a look at the way it will change how we interact will all digital devices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:34 PM

Yes I think we all agree that product wise the iPhone is a great product. But yes Apple has almost made it to good and to many products in one.

The newton was a good product too- didnt prevent it from
sinking like a rock.

The hype was not from Apple.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. This is a multitouch touch screen. If you don't know what that means have a look at the way it will change how we interact will all digital devices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc

I've already seen that video.

I'm familiar w/ multitouch- in fact I'm using 2 finger scrolling
on my Macbook as I type this. NOT revolutionary.

Blue Velvet

Jan 10, 2007, 03:36 PM

Right & how many cell phones has Apple release up to this point, other
than the failed MotoRokr? NONE

And? So?

That's what people said about the iPod. And yet, over 60% marketshare within 6 years. Somehow, I think they know what they're doing and so does the market. ;)

yellow

Jan 10, 2007, 03:38 PM

It should have created the Widescreen iPod 1st, then
tested the waters w/ a basic phone before betting the mortgage
on a device thats overpriced & overkill for 90% of consumers.

I think "betting the mortgage" is a bit of an overstatement.
The failure of the iPhone won't mean the demise of Apple, Inc.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:38 PM

And? So?

That's what people said about the iPod. And yet, over 60% marketshare within 6 years. Somehow, I think they know what they're doing and so does the market. ;)

This could either be the 2nd coming of the iPod, or the 2nd
coming of the Newton.

Bottom line, its NOT a slam dunk.

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 03:39 PM

The newton was a good product too- didnt prevent it from
sinking like a rock.

Do you really think the times are the same as when the Newton was released? When it was released did you see this level of media interest? The time is as ripe as ever for Apple to release this.

Whether you think you can do the same with a Dooberry is neither here nor there. The public will look at this and want one just for the coolness. The fact that it's expensive doesn't matter. The mobile phone, now in our culture today, is a status symbol that is as strong as the car once was. People pay for labels and Apple is just that, a label.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:40 PM

I think "betting the mortgage" is a bit of an overstatement.
The failure of the iPhone won't mean the demise of Apple, Inc.

No, but its failure would likely mean the end of Apple's
Cell phone endeavors, & be a huge hit to investor confidence,
just like Sony's exploding battery & PS3 production issues
have been a huge hit to their reputation.

LC III

Jan 10, 2007, 03:41 PM

Show me a press release of Apple saying that & maybe I'll listen.

I'm not about to belive reposted heresay from someones uncles cousins brother on some random internet form called "Mac Rumors".

no, i agree with you actually. just that people keep telling me it's unlocked and granted, there was some speculation back in Oct/Nov that it would be, it doesn't seem to be the case now.

Blue Velvet

Jan 10, 2007, 03:41 PM

Bottom line, its NOT a slam dunk.

True. And in that case, come back and we'll resume this conversation in 5 years time.

In the meantime, acquaint yourself with the infamous thread 500. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) ;)

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:41 PM

Do you really think the times are the same as when the Newton was released? When it was released did you see this level of media interest? The time is as ripe as ever for Apple to release this.

Snakes on a plane got tons of media hype too- nobody saw it.

Whether you think you can do the same with a Dooberry is neither here nor there. The public will look at this and want one just for the coolness. The fact that it's expensive doesn't matter. The mobile phone, now in our culture today, is a status symbol that is as strong as the car once was. People pay for labels and Apple is just that, a label.

The public thinks ferraris are cool too- What percent of the population
owns one?

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 03:42 PM

The newton was a good product too- didnt prevent it from
sinking like a rock.

I agree (not with all your points) with you. I think the iPhone wont fail but will not be a global phenomenon and apple has missed out on a huge (and by huge I mean "swear word here"ing massive) opportunity sales and image wise by not just releasing a pure phone with all features of iphone but only a phone and another device portable media center with internet and wifi. Look at archos I will not buy one (to big and not clever) but they are gaining market share for that class of product all the time. Apple has the ability and inovation to bankrupt that company for sure. and I am sure they will with the next iPod but I do think they have made a mistake with the iphone. I will say this again I think it is a brilliant product in its UI, Functionality and looks but it is to much in 1

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:43 PM

True. And in that case, come back and we'll resume this conversation in 5 years time.

In the meantime, acquaint yourself with the infamous thread 500. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) ;)

Youre on ;)

(& youre lucky Mac Rumors didnt exist when the Newton first came out)

See you in 5 years ;)

emotion

Jan 10, 2007, 03:43 PM

The newton was a good product too- didnt prevent it from
sinking like a rock.

I've already seen that video.

I'm familiar w/ multitouch- in fact I'm using 2 finger scrolling
on my Macbook as I type this. NOT revolutionary.

Not on the macbook it isn't. I agree. It's just nice on there.

Anyway dude I'd love to keep reacting to your pathetic attempts at trolling but y'know this isn't the ROKR (with trad mobile phone style interface, y'know like your 90% functionality Blackberry) this is something very very different. It will succeed despite some of the shortcomings that put me and a few others off.

yellow

Jan 10, 2007, 03:46 PM

No, but its failure would likely mean the end of Apple's
Cell phone endeavors, & be a huge hit to investor confidence,
just like Sony's exploding battery & PS3 production issues
have been a huge hit to their reputation.

Quite possibly.. one from which they will likely recover as long as SJ is at the head of the boat.

I don't see this as a failed product out the door. There are lots of gadget-o-philes out there with cash to burn. My thought is that the iPhone will be slow to grow into the market, much like the iPod was. Will it dominate? Not likely, but it will exist. Will it be a smash hit? Not likely, but it will sell enough to keep it afloat for a while.

The real issue is this... where to go from the iPhone? Seems like every day there's a new phone with X bells and Y whistles. Has Apple attempted to smash as much XY into their iPhone right from the start? What ideas do they have to make it better? I don't think larger flash drives will suffice. And I worry about all the XY.. seems like a lot of bleeding edge stuff to break and be a repair headache.

~Shard~

Jan 10, 2007, 03:47 PM

I know more about technology & business than you could ever wishto learn

Please, I like to think we're all above the childish "I'm better than you" arguments. There's no need to "prove something", this isn't grade school... :cool:

That being said, thanks for the laugh! :p ;)

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 03:47 PM

Not on the macbook it isn't. I agree. It's just nice on there.

Anyway dude I'd love to keep reacting to your pathetic attempts at trolling but y'know this isn't the ROKR (with trad mobile phone style interface, y'know like your 90% functionality Blackberry) this is something very very different. It will succeed despite some of the shortcomings that put me and a few others off.

Then we'll agree to disagree.

You think the public is ready for this,
I think its too much too soon.

Point taken

Please, I like to think we're all above the childish "I'm better than you" arguments. There's no need to "prove something", this isn't grade school... :cool:

That being said, thanks for the laugh! :p ;)

Was it any more childish than his n00b" remark?

Quite possibly.. one from which they will likely recover as long as SJ is at the head of the boat.

Rumors are he may be stepping down as CEO

yellow

Jan 10, 2007, 03:53 PM

The public thinks ferraris are cool too- What percent of the population
owns one?

I really don't think that's a fair comparison..

The average american family's annual income is $70,700 (2004), slightly under half the price of a single ferrari? Maybe if you could live in one more people would buy them.

Rumors are he may be stepping down as CEO

Rumors are that he's taking a sabbatical, I've not heard "stepping down".

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 03:55 PM

I heard he was taking leave of absence to deal with a legal matter and spend some time with his family

dejo

Jan 10, 2007, 03:55 PM

Rumors are he may be stepping down as CEO

Earlier:
I'm not about to belive reposted heresay from someones uncles cousins brother on some random internet form called "Mac Rumors".

So, you believe the rumors now? :confused:

failsafe1

Jan 10, 2007, 03:57 PM

Rumors are he may be stepping down as CEO

LOL aren't you talking about the wrong company? :D

jsw

Jan 10, 2007, 03:58 PM

I know more about technology & business than you could ever wish to learn- dont pull this n00b Bull with me.
It would seem that no one knows as much about it as you do, given the stock adjustments, the statements from other manufacturers, the public response, and the internal rumblings at at least one cell phone manufacturer.

I've found that people who truly know more about a given subject tend not to use phrases like "I know more about x that you could ever hope to learn." Of course, you said "wish", but still. Whether or not you think this phone should sell or is innovative or is too expensive is irrelevant. It will sell like hotcakes, and it will rock the current cell phone manufacturers to the core.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 04:04 PM

Earlier:

So, you believe the rumors now? :confused:

Credible media reported the leave of abscence aka stepping down.

Maybe iPhone is Steves last hurrah w/ apple? I mean hes not gonna
be CEO forever

Whether or not you think this phone should sell or is innovative or is too expensive is irrelevant. It will sell like hotcakes, and it will rock the current cell phone manufacturers to the core.

Save your breath for people who are on the fence. I & many others have
already gone on record saying they will not buy it.

Will you be the 1st on line to purchase one?

How is cingular coverage in Andover?

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 04:06 PM

But without Steve Jobs who would Bill Gates have to copy. I know Microsoft developers are already copying Mac OS X and beyond but did anyone see Bill Gates during his Keynote. Oh My God I think he has a video of Steve Jobs and practises every morning, His Body Language and even the way he held his remote was straight out of "Being Steve Jobs For Dummies" Book

SheriffParker

Jan 10, 2007, 04:06 PM

Some people seem to be upset about the fact that you have to sign a 2 year contract to get the phone. It doesn't seem that bad to me.

I mean, you'll want cell-phone service for your iPhone won't you?

pfff.

~Shard~

Jan 10, 2007, 04:06 PM

Was it any more childish than his n00b" remark?

He made an incorrect assumption and jumped to a false conclusion. He shouldn't have made that statement without confirming that what he was saying was accurate. So in this respect, yes, he was in error.

However this is slightly different than your comment. I could elaborate further however I believe that jsw summed up my thoughts adequately. :cool:

All I'm saying is that everyone should play nice here. It is possible to carry on a civilized and healthy debate on a topic with differing viewpoints without having to resort to immature tactics such as getting personal, calling people names (such as "n00b"), etc. That's all. Carry on, back on topic... :cool:

jsw

Jan 10, 2007, 04:08 PM

Save your breath for people who are on the fence. I & many others have
already gone on record saying they will not buy it.

Will you be the 1st on line to purchase one?
Obviously, probably not - because with so many people queued up to buy one, I can't believe I'd be so lucky.

I'm not trying to convince you - whose only posts are in this single thread and who is at risk of being banned as a troll - to buy an iPhone. Clearly, you don't want one. I'm merely pointing out that it will outsell any other phone at that price point, and that people who last week would never have considered spending that much on a phone are now going to do so as soon as they're released.

Macmadant

Jan 10, 2007, 04:09 PM

I heard he was taking leave of absence to deal with a legal matter and spend some time with his family

No, Steve said as-long as the company and board want him he's going to carry on working at apple

Martin C

Jan 10, 2007, 04:09 PM

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 04:13 PM

No, Steve said as-long as the company and board want him he's going to carry on working at apple

Cool If thats confirmed thats a good thing, He will be therre for a very long time. Thanks for that. I love the rumors but love the truth more.

Macmadant

Jan 10, 2007, 04:15 PM

Cool If thats confirmed thats a good thing, He will be therre for a very long time. Thanks for that. I love the rumors but love the truth more.

Steve said it himself in a CNCB interview, so were all right for a while

BRLawyer

Jan 10, 2007, 04:17 PM

digitalbiker

Jan 10, 2007, 04:18 PM

My hope is that this phone-pod has voice recognition technology and Mac OS X Automator.

Can you imagine the possiblities? :eek: :eek: :eek: :D :cool:

Misplaced Mage

Jan 10, 2007, 04:23 PM

Is it legal for Steve to make calls with it in a public place if it doesn't have FCC approval? I would have thought they'd have to restrict its use to within RF-shielded test facilities.FCC qualification is near the end of an iterative development process, and has to be done with near-production units. It's acceptable, and in fact necessary to go "live" earlier on a cell network with limited numbers of prototypes for testing purposes in order to find and debug network interoperability issues. But it's not like you're going on the air with a phone that has little or no output RF power control, or emitting large amounts of spurious RF noise, either, like the initial prototypes are wont to.

illegalprelude

Jan 10, 2007, 04:26 PM

are people really discussing the fact if the call he made was legal or not?

"omg, I saw Steve Jobs J-walk!" :rolleyes: Call the feds!

digitalbiker

Jan 10, 2007, 04:28 PM

I am pretty confused right now... :confused:

Some are saying that Apple will offer the iPhone unlocked for a higher price. If this ends up being true, I will pop in my T-Mobile SIM Card.

My question is about EDGE. Do I pay some sort of data plan through T-Mobile? How do I get access to EDGE?

No, it was clearly stated that the iPhone would only be availble through Cingular or Apple with a 2 year service contract from Cingular.

Steve made it extremely clear how Cingular was working directly with Apple for some of the features to work.

However they also announced that the iPhone would go international in late 2007 and Asia in 2008. So maybe at that time Apple would sell an unlocked GSM phone that might work with T-Mobile.

Otherwise, it sounds like the only thing you could do is Buy the phone through Apple with the minimum Cingular plan. Pay Cingular the contract buy-out fee (around $200.00 I think), Have them unlock your phone (required now by US law if requested). Pop in your T-Mobile sim.

It should work, it would be expensive and it wouldn't have all of the features (such as random voice mail access).

EDGE is only available through Cingular. But trust me your not really giving up much here. This is nowhere near as fast as WiFi or Sprints/Nextels broadband.

balamw

Jan 10, 2007, 04:31 PM

These will sell like hot cakes. Millions of people are going to buy one.
To be precise, from the keynote, it seems like Apple is counting on 10 Million people buying one of these in its first 12 months, which adds up to roughly twice the total number of Macs sold worldwide in a year and would contribute half the total revenue that all Macs do to the company. This assumes the only source of revenue being the hardware itself, but when you add in accessories, licensing deals with operators, etc... it adds up to a LOT of cash.

Face it, sales of desktop computers are ever shrinking. Portables are where the growth is, and what's more portable than a mobile phone? This is part of skating to where the puck will be. As the line between consumer electronics and computers blurs further we'll see Apple expanding more into other CE markets as well.

It's a huge gamble, but one that Apple is in a unique position to make right now, as they have enough cash on hand to eat every single one of those iPhones at retail price and still have lots of cash in the bank.

FWIW I too am on the fence, but have not ruled out buying one.

B

It's acceptable, and in fact necessary to go "live" earlier on a cell network with limited numbers of prototypes for testing purposes in order to find and debug network interoperability issues. But it's not like you're going on the air with a phone that has little or no output RF power control, or emitting large amounts of spurious RF noise, either, like the initial prototypes are wont to.

The FCC has a process for granting experimental licenses (http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html), which allow you to use unlicensed devices, even on licensed frequencies as long as you tell them where and when you will be doing so.

B

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 04:36 PM

To be precise, from the keynote, it seems like Apple is counting on 10 Million people buying one of these in its first 12 months, which adds up to roughly twice the total number of Macs sold worldwide in a year and would contribute half the total revenue that all Macs do to the company. This assumes the only source of revenue being the hardware itself, but when you add in accessories, licensing deals with operators, etc... it adds up to a LOT of cash.
B

Yes but do you think this is realistic. They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically. I am sure Apple Inc Marketers and such have done there research but I cant see how they can put the iPhone in the general catagory of mobile phones and I think it belongs in the smart phone category.

TequilaBoobs

Jan 10, 2007, 04:37 PM

if you look at how many people out there bought the awful chocolate phone purely on looks alone (yours truly included), i think the iPhone has a good chance of biting off some market share.

the phone dazzles, and it will certainly be imitated. too many new features to predict the success right now, but i know now is probably the best time to launch an iPhone considering apple's recent popularity following the intel switch.

peharri

Jan 10, 2007, 04:51 PM

Yes but do you think this is realistic. They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically. I am sure Apple Inc Marketers and such have done there research but I cant see how they can put the iPhone in the general catagory of mobile phones and I think it belongs in the smart phone category.

I'm finding the whole thing impossible to fathom.

With hindsight, I see why iPod was successful. While MP3 players at the time came from no-name companies and were over-sized or too low in capacity, the iPod was the right balance and was clearly easy to use.

When iPod mini came out, I didn't really understand it until I saw the market it was aimed at snapping it up.

When iPod photo came out, I finally knew enough to figure out why someone would want it and be prepared to buy it, largely through having a fiance (now wife :) who was always proudly showing pictures of her nieces to everyone. The idea of adding a photo library made some sort of sense.

But now with this I'm back to square one. I don't see the market. I don't understand why anyone, beyond a very snooty Mac enthusiast, would get this in favour of a good Nokia or Motorola. It's large, about three times the size of my V635 and, remarkably, actually larger than my second generation iPod (except for width, of course.)

The price is very high. Yes, so was the RAZR's, but the RAZR's came down in short order once the initial hype subsided, and IIRC it was never $500! Recent phones in the RAZR series, KRZR and RIZR, unlocked and unsubsidized, are around $300 today. So the market for phones costing over $500 that, even then, require contracts is, well, questionable.

And price is something key. People are used to getting free phones, or phones that "cost" $50-150. My wife gets horrified when I buy them because I always insist on getting something unlocked and unsubsidized. But even I spend $250-300, not $500-600.

To believe it's going to sell well is to believe that a significant number of people will look at it and say "I need this. And I'm the kind of money that has $500 to spend, and am happy about spending it on a (good) phone." I'm failing to see who that group are. Who is this thing aimed at?

Without knowing that, I can't tell if this is a Thread 500 for me, again, or something that'll bomb exactly the way it first appears.

valdore

Jan 10, 2007, 04:56 PM

I'm giving it a couple of years (and some downward price revisions) before getting one. All I ever do with my cell phone is yack anyway, I never bother with Internet, except when I'm at a real computer.

Mitthrawnuruodo

Jan 10, 2007, 04:58 PM

To believe it's going to sell well is to believe that a significant number of people will look at it and say "I need this. And I'm the kind of money that has $500 to spend, and am happy about spending it on a (good) phone." I'm failing to see who that group are. Who is this thing aimed at? I need this.

I don't have anywhere near $500 (or whatever the price in Norway will be in Q4), but you can bet I'll scrape those funds together come Christmas... ;)

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 05:01 PM

I'm finding the whole thing impossible to fathom.

Agreed 100%

My main problem with the iPhone is the memory size. EG buy an 8gb model. It will not replace us who live with our ipod. Us who watch missed tv progs on our lunch break. Have our whole music collection on it and just put it into our speakers when we get home to charge it and listen to it.

I would be tempted if it was a normal 1 year tie in and could replace my iPod but as things stand even with the iPhone I will still need to keep my iPod and carry both items on a daily basis. Therefore I will stick with my Ipod in my right trouser pocket and my slim tiny sony Ericcson behind my wallet in my left pocket.

yellow

Jan 10, 2007, 05:02 PM

Credible media reported the leave of abscence aka stepping down.

These are not the same thing.. a "leave of absence" implies returning, "stepping down" implies leaving forever.

As for the size of the flash drive...

I think Apple is banking more (for the moment) on their iTunes Store purchases of movies (a 2.5 hour movie is roughtly 1.7GB), rather than a huge DVD rip.

My main question is this:

BATTERY LIFE

My RAZR has craptastic battery life, but it's paper thin. How does a paper thin ipod/cell/video/barofsoap stand to fair with today's battery tech? None to well I'm guessing.

ki-goi

Jan 10, 2007, 05:03 PM

[apple] also created the Newton, the Cube, & other devices that no one cares about anymore.... 10 years ago, Apple was a company no one wanted to touch w/ a 20 foot pole.

the newton was an inspiring piece of tech, much more surprising in function and cost than people could deal with at the time. it had a major timing problem.

i think if it had been released a couple years later, the same people who beat up on the automatic poetry machine would have hailed it the way they hailed having people hand deliver videotapes to your door for free as a fantastic new business model. maybe with a little dotcom push the newton would have then survived to get its needed brain transplant and become a model for the future, instead of the 1991-era handheld mac that was the palm.

which was great, don't get me wrong. i love telling people my handspring quadra runs on AAA batteries.

anyway on the positive side, steve didn't mention the powerbook as an apple contribution to society, cuz he wasn't there for that, but it's another big one.

where apple was 10 years ago? same place SGI and sun were, basically. a bunch of good people with good products getting hosed by their own pride and the windows monopoly. there was a transition that needed making, a bridge to cross toward the bright future where computers were made for pennies and sold for dimes and people in east asia got a little of the money and all the pollution. somebody needed to bravely reach into the global parts bin where no silivalley maverick had gone before and steve did it once for imac and then again for ipod and voila, revolution.

They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically.

disagree. like the powerbook, i think this bridges the gap between the categories and will make both smart and dumb phone users wish for what's behind door #iphone. various folks i know who have ordinary phones and are lost in unlabeled buttons and eye-crossing menus are salivating over this PHD interface.

BRLawyer

Jan 10, 2007, 05:14 PM

I need this.

I don't have anywhere near $500 (or whatever the price in Norway will be in Q4), but you can bet I'll scrape those funds together come Christmas... ;)

Me too, even though I wasn't one of those excited about a new phone...but Apple amazed me again...I will get one as soon as it arrives in CH, as long as Sunrise provides it.

These are not the same thing.. a "leave of absence" implies returning, "stepping down" implies leaving forever.

As for the size of the flash drive...

I think Apple is banking more (for the moment) on their iTunes Store purchases of movies (a 2.5 hour movie is roughtly 1.7GB), rather than a huge DVD rip.

My main question is this:

BATTERY LIFE

My RAZR has craptastic battery life, but it's paper thin. How does a paper thin ipod/cell/video/barofsoap stand to fair with today's battery tech? None to well I'm guessing.

And what is craptastic? I have a RAZR too and it's pretty good at 1 week standby battery time...

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 05:17 PM

disagree. like the powerbook, i think this bridges the gap between the categories and will make both smart and dumb phone users wish for what's behind door #iphone. various folks i know who have ordinary phones and are lost in unlabeled buttons and eye-crossing menus are salivating over this PHD interface.

Yes I can slightly see what you are saying here. And yes Agreed the iPhone is a start to bridge the gap. And yes I have never disagreed that the iPhone is brilliant with the loss of buttons and the touch screen is out of this world genius. I just think that they should have started with just a phone nothing more nothing less. Imagine how many iPod owners and non iPod owners would buy it if it was just a phone and had the UI like the iPhone and the voice mail features. Buy puting it all in one product I believe they have alienated large capacity Ipod users and the trandy cool people who like small mobile phones over genius ones. 30-80gb ipod users in general I do not think will buy this as it would be two products to carry and one of the features of the Iphone will be redundant

MrCrowbar

Jan 10, 2007, 05:31 PM

Yes but do you think this is realistic. They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically. I am sure Apple Inc Marketers and such have done there research but I cant see how they can put the iPhone in the general catagory of mobile phones and I think it belongs in the smart phone category.

I agree. I remember when the iPod mini was announced. Back then, the iPod was for fancy people with lots of music and money, way more than the average user. Steve showed a pie chart where you had quite a big part beeing taken by sub 256 MB mp3-players with bad interfaces. He said "we wanna go after these guys". And "boom", iPod mini. Same functionality, more mainstream, smaller, cheaper, colored.

I'm one of the many people that are reluctant to pay $500 + 2 year contract for something I "only" use on the go since I can do all it does on a big machine at home more efficiently. I predict there will be a slimmed down version (iPhone mini probably), that will have a little less features (no camera, no video, no coverflow, no safari, same storage as the original iPhone) for a more mainstream price. Oh yea, this thing has to get smaller for me to want to carry it with me all the time.

The iPod mini would be a good form factor, small enough for the pocket, still big enough for a touchscreen keyboard and one line of text in landscape mode. Alternatively, a traditional 12 key (virtual) keypad, just like normal phones nowadays. You can type pretty fast on old Nokia phones before the color displays and annoying overloaded menus. I'd love to briefly flip the mini iPhone to landscape for special characters for example. You can make so much with a well designed touchscreen.

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 05:40 PM

I have just had a thought. Might be completely wrong and stupid but.

The iPhone is Made. We know this as Steve jobs had a few during his keynote speech. And FCC (or whatever you call it) approval takes roughly 2 months. To me this brings us up to this date in March. The deal is already sealed with cingular for the US so why is the phone not being launched in March-April.

Is Mr Jobs testing the water. Is the iPhone a sure thing or does steve Jobs want to see the reaction to the launch before puting it into mass production. It would take several months after FCC aproval to make enough to satisfy demand (if much) this would bring us to June. I wonder.,

They could not release a true video iPod before this as people would buy that and not the phone. Is anybody like me thinking that maybe something is not always what it seems

gwangung

Jan 10, 2007, 05:49 PM

I agree. I remember when the iPod mini was announced. Back then, the iPod was for fancy people with lots of music and money, way more than the average user. Steve showed a pie chart where you had quite a big part beeing taken by sub 256 MB mp3-players with bad interfaces. He said "we wanna go after these guys". And "boom", iPod mini. Same functionality, more mainstream, smaller, cheaper, colored.

I'm one of the many people that are reluctant to pay $500 + 2 year contract for something I "only" use on the go since I can do all it does on a big machine at home more efficiently. I predict there will be a slimmed down version (iPhone mini probably), that will have a little less features (no camera, no video, no coverflow, no safari, same storage as the original iPhone) for a more mainstream price. Oh yea, this thing has to get smaller for me to want to carry it with me all the time.

The iPod mini would be a good form factor, small enough for the pocket, still big enough for a touchscreen keyboard and one line of text in landscape mode. Alternatively, a traditional 12 key (virtual) keypad, just like normal phones nowadays. You can type pretty fast on old Nokia phones before the color displays and annoying overloaded menus. I'd love to briefly flip the mini iPhone to landscape for special characters for example. You can make so much with a well designed touchscreen.

I dunno. I have a sneaking suspicion that once iPhones are in people's hands, they are gonna FIND uses for them, and find ways to use it, and not the laptop or the desktop machine.

cheekyspanky

Jan 10, 2007, 05:51 PM

We've been chatting about this at work today - if Apple have a similar set up in the UK (partnering with one phone company) who will it be..

Vodafone, Orange, O2?
T-Mobile... Not chosen in the US..may reduce likeliness of being chosen in UK,
Three... Not 3G (at the moment anyway) so no good,

What's your thoughts? The conclusion at work was O2.

Aardy

Jan 10, 2007, 05:52 PM

I really can't believe how much whinging there has been in this forum. I've read every single post (I must have way too much time on my hands) and I really can't believe what I'm reading.

The whingers seem to be in 8 camps:

1: "It's only 8 GB" - this is a flash memory based device, not a hard disk based device. This allows for several things: lower power requirements, less need for power management to spin down a hard disk when not in use, lighter, less heat involved, no moving parts, smaller physical size.

2: Cingular - They're US only and the first market is the US. Cingular is, as far as I understand it, the largest mobile carrier in the US. If they were going to go with a single network, then you go with the biggest, it's simple business sense. Yes, an unlocked phone would be better but as I understand it the technologies are very different across the networks; there may not be enough physical space in the phone to allow for everything in its initial incarnation.

3: "will it sync, have 802.11n, have feature x" - we don't know yet, so stop asking. We're not clairvoyants and have no inside knowledge. The actual release is some months away, so just sit on your hands and learn some patience. Idle speculation about what it will/won't do is an exercise in futility.

4: "My (insert name of current phone here) does the same stuff" - it may indeed do just about everything that the iPhone does, but does it do it as well? Does it do it with such an innovative interface that brings mobile smartphone usage out of the dark ages?

5: "It's too expensive" - This is a first generation, top of the range device with some innovative technologies. Do you really expect it to be on sale for $10? The first run of a top end device is always expensive. Look back at the innovative devices of the past and look at the price points of the first run - VHS recorders, CD-ROM, DVD players, Plasma and LCD TVs, the first iPod, the first mobile phone. Now tell me it's way overpriced for what it is.

6: "It's a 2 year contract" - I'm in the UK and 2 year contracts are almost unknown. Here it's 12-18 months as standard. I don't know how the US market works - is a 2 year contract unusual?

7: "It isn't G3" - Again, in the initial market (the US), 3G isn't all that prevalent. Steve Jobs mentioned in the keynote that they are "working on 3G" - presumably that'll be for the European version where 3G is far more widespread. That's probably 9 months away, and it's almost certain 3G will be available by then.

8: "I wanted a widescreen video iPod, new Mac, better display, (put product of choice here)" - Well, I wanted a 24" MacBookPro with a 1 TB hard drive, 802.11n+, wireless firewire 1600, USB 4, 12 GB RAM, neural and thought control, that has a 17 day battery life, stays at 20 degrees C (68 F ) and folds up into my wallet, but it's not going to happen. It's January 10th - the year is a mere 10 days old, there's 355 more days to get excited about other products, have some patience.

What we have got is something that is new, has an innovative interface, that raises the bar as far as design, integration and functionality are concerned and may well cause people to think a little differently about how they interact and use their mobile devices.

As I mentioned in my previous post (way back on page 16!) - take a deep breath and step back. Then really look at what's on offer.

Warbrain

Jan 10, 2007, 05:58 PM

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 05:58 PM

valdore

Jan 10, 2007, 06:00 PM

6: "It's a 2 year contract" - I'm in the UK and 2 year contracts are almost unknown. Here it's 12-18 months as standard. I don't know how the US market works - is a 2 year contract unusual?

Yes, I think the 2 year contracts are more the norm than the exception in the US cell phone market. I think it stinks because most cell phones I've ever owned never last that long. Then they get you to sign yet another contract just to avoid paying through the nose initially on yet another new phone.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 06:06 PM

I really can't believe how much whinging there has been in this forum. I've read every single post (I must have way too much time on my hands) and I really can't believe what I'm reading.

The whingers seem to be in 8 camps:

8? Try 2- Fanboys & realists

As I mentioned in my previous post (way back on page 16!) - take a deep breath and step back. Then really look at what's on offer.

Whats to offer that hasnt already been out for the past 12 months?

-large touch screen for $600?

No thanks- I'll stick to my BB Pearl I got FREE from TMobile

Already gives me all the push email, internet, video, & music I
need.

Nothing revolutionary here folks. Move along...

Here's my question, and I think I have the answer for it, but there is no definite answer at the moment...

Even though Yahoo is providing free push e-mail for the iPhone, users will still need to pay for the data usage over the EDGE network, right? Or did/will Cingular allow users to use it for nothing?

Cingular will probably charge no less than $80/month for
Data/ Phone service

digitalbiker

Jan 10, 2007, 06:13 PM

Here's my question, and I think I have the answer for it, but there is no definite answer at the moment...

Even though Yahoo is providing free push e-mail for the iPhone, users will still need to pay for the data usage over the EDGE network, right? Or did/will Cingular allow users to use it for nothing?

Pretty sure you are going to have to pay Cingular.

Cingular hasn't announced any special pricing for the iPhone yet so you can only assume it will be just like all of the other Cingular phones.

However a lot can happen in 6 months. Maybe Cingular is going to offer a special 2 year package of services just for Apple users.

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 06:15 PM

gwangung

Jan 10, 2007, 06:15 PM

pengu

Jan 10, 2007, 06:15 PM

I wonder I think O2 is in some partnership with microsoft over its smart phones. Cant remember name of it. Orange has its spv with windows mobile 5 I think also so that would leave vodaphone. and apple tends to go for biggest network supplier even though it may not be the best.

Dont quote me on this I dont know if my words are accurate.

Well maybe you're right. And if it is intended to be a "single carrier" thing, maybe Vodafone IS going to be it.. but not just for UK.. for the World. they ARE the worlds largest mobile network.

alexf

Jan 10, 2007, 06:15 PM

Misplaced Mage

Jan 10, 2007, 06:20 PM

TThe FCC has a process for granting experimental licenses (http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html), which allow you to use unlicensed devices, even on licensed frequencies as long as you tell them where and when you will be doing so.Thanks for the link! I knew there was a formal procedure, but couldn't find it.

I have just had a thought. Might be completely wrong and stupid but.

The iPhone is Made. We know this as Steve jobs had a few during his keynote speech. And FCC (or whatever you call it) approval takes roughly 2 months. To me this brings us up to this date in March. The deal is already sealed with cingular for the US so why is the phone not being launched in March-April.

Is Mr Jobs testing the water. Is the iPhone a sure thing or does steve Jobs want to see the reaction to the launch before puting it into mass production. It would take several months after FCC aproval to make enough to satisfy demand (if much) this would bring us to June. I wonder.,

They could not release a true video iPod before this as people would buy that and not the phone. Is anybody like me thinking that maybe something is not always what it seemsFCC approval takes two months under ideal conditions, i.e., the hardware easily passes all the radiated tests, E911 location determination works, the remaining unstomped bugs in the software don't lock up the phone during testing, there's nobody immediately ahead of you in the queue, the stars are aligned properly, etc. Anything goes wrong, and you have to start from square one again once you fix whatever failed. Meanwhile, the carrier (Cingular, in this case) is performing similar testing, along with interoperability tests. Some carrier testing (*cough*Verizon*cough) can easily run twice as long as the FCC's, and again, you have to start from scratch if there's any failure. Add four to six weeks to ramp up production and fill the distribution pipeline once FCC and carrier approval is obtained, and June looks about right. This is well in line with the announce/release pattern of other cell phones.

Ugg

Jan 10, 2007, 06:21 PM

**BREAKING NEWS**

Cisco Sues Apple over iPhone Trademark

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/cisco-files-infringement-suit-against/story.aspx?guid=%7B3C3C5C85%2D43E7%2D45A7%2D91B5%2D7FC32D3880E5%7D&dateid=39092.7481000579-886923964

Cisco files infringement suit against Apple over iPhone

the iPhones long road to market begins w/ a speedbump

You're obviously clueless when it comes to trademarks. If anything, it's a negotiating ploy on the part of cisco to get more money.

ts1973

Jan 10, 2007, 06:21 PM

8? Try 2- Fanboys & realists

Whats to offer that hasnt already been out for the past 12 months?

-large touch screen for $600?

No thanks- I'll stick to my BB Pearl I got FREE from TMobile

Already gives me all the push email, internet, video, & music I
need.

Nothing revolutionary here folks. Move along...

Well fiddle245, imho you're pushing it a little at the moment. This must be your zillionth post by now stating the same "not revolutionary" sentence, so I guess we all know what you mean now :p

No seriously, like I've already said 10 pages ago, you have some valid arguments, and I even agree that the innovations by themselves are not revolutionary, at best evolutionary. But something like the iPhone has not been done before, an never have so many of the best features been available in 1 device, and been implemented as seemlessly as they have in the case of iPhone, and have been available with an interface that you and me are instantly familiar with. Apple has not reinvented the wheel, but they surely made it a heck more attractive ;)

But don't get me wrong either : I absolutely hate the fact that it comes with a contract (making it in reality much more expensive than we're actually seeing), and it isn't UMTS, making it next to worthless in a European environment, and it's a little short on capacity, but these things have been mentioned a zillion times already as well.

So in the end I see a brilliant new device, one I definately will get sooner or later, if I can in any way affort it. That is : I'll get it if it ever reaches belgium, as locked phones are by law forbidden here. I hope Steve doesn't turn awya because of that...

pengu

Jan 10, 2007, 06:22 PM

have a right to be very disappointed right now, especially in light of all the pre-MacWorld rumors floating around pertaining to products which Apple used to be very serious about, i.e. computers.

um. you do know what a RUMOR is, right? if you believed the hype, and expected an 8core macpro with 4 graphics cards in SLI and 8 drive bays that is priced just above the imac that at the push of a button breaks the laws of physics and transforms into a 8"x11" 1/2" thick tablet running a new version of osx that has a built in win32 application layer and ilife07uber version and iwork07ultimatextreme1337 version.... well then thats your fault for believing the hype, isnt it? Dont blame apple just because YOU read rumors as gospel.

balamw

Jan 10, 2007, 06:24 PM

You're obviously clueless when it comes to trademarks. If anything, it's a negotiating ploy on the part of cisco to get more money.

Which is why it's a speedbump and not a brick wall. The brick wall will come when some company or other sues them for patent infringement for some idea or another.

Apple made a mistake in showing their hand before finishing the negotiations.

B

Ugg

Jan 10, 2007, 06:24 PM

Talk about a let down this year at MacWorld! MacWorld should be about the Mac,

....and Christmas is a pagan holiday co-opted by Christians. Does that mean we should all spend the evening of 24 December dancing around a fir tree in the forest? Times change and as I've mentioned a couple of dozen times now, Apple is now Apple Inc. NOT Apple Compter Inc. Their direction is changing from merely a computer maker to a manufacture that embraces all of the digital lifestyle.

Then again, all I'm waiting for is for Leopard to be released so I can buy me a new Mini!

valdore

Jan 10, 2007, 06:28 PM

**BREAKING NEWS**

Cisco Sues Apple over iPhone Trademark

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/cisco-files-infringement-suit-against/story.aspx?guid=%7B3C3C5C85%2D43E7%2D45A7%2D91B5%2D7FC32D3880E5%7D&dateid=39092.7481000579-886923964

Cisco files infringement suit against Apple over iPhone

the iPhones long road to market begins w/ a speedbump

I saw this coming, but damn, Cisco sure didn't waste any time filing suit. I can just imagine their legal department sharpening its teeth for this.

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 06:28 PM

Thanks for the link! I knew there was a formal procedure, but couldn't find it.

FCC approval takes two months under ideal conditions, i.e., the hardware easily passes all the radiated tests, E911 location determination works, the remaining unstomped bugs in the software don't lock up the phone during testing, there's nobody immediately ahead of you in the queue, the stars are aligned properly, etc. Anything goes wrong, and you have to start from square one again once you fix whatever failed. Meanwhile, the carrier (Cingular, in this case) is performing similar testing, along with interoperability tests. Some carrier testing (*cough*Verizon*cough) can easily run twice as long as the FCC's, and again, you have to start from scratch if there's any failure. Add four to six weeks to ramp up production and fill the distribution pipeline once FCC and carrier approval is obtained, and June looks about right. This is well in line with the announce/release pattern of other cell phones.

Thanks for the insight. It all makes sense to a june release then. I still just wonder it is very un apple like to do this and can see that they did not want the product leaked by some dude at the FCC but surely they could have done something to stop the FCC leaking it. Surely legally The FCC would not be allowed to leak the product without being sued by Apple. Many other products go through testing without being leaked. I do hope it is not a trend. I love during keynotes when Steve Jobs announces "it will be shipping from today" But appletv and phone and even the new airport extreme are all a future release date.

Aardy

Jan 10, 2007, 06:33 PM

but those of us who: 1) have been around long enough to remember when Apple made innovative and cutting-edge computers and were far less "corporate" minded ...

I've also been around long enough to see what Apple have been up to, and the world has changed somewhat.

I was there with the Mac Classic 4/40 and System 7, through the abyss that was the Performa, System 7.5 and OS 8, and out the other side with the PowerBook G3, G4, OS 9 and OS X. Even before that I was there with the Apple ][, the Apple //c and the Apple ///.

Apple still make cutting edge computers, but the world has moved on. No longer is there the division between office and home computers, they are now the same beast. Gone are the days of acoustic couplers, tape recorders and punch cards :-)

Being cutting edge in the computer world is now far more difficult, even more so with no exciting new chips for a while. This is a step sideways, it's a gamble and it may just pay off.

The iPod wasn't 'revolutionary' in its technology, it was in the interface and ease of use. It seems the same may be true of the iPhone (lawsuits over names permitting)

Misplaced Mage

Jan 10, 2007, 06:33 PM

Thanks for the insight. It all makes sense to a june release then. I still just wonder it is very un apple like to do this and can see that they did not want the product leaked by some dude at the FCC but surely they could have done something to stop the FCC leaking it. Surely legally The FCC would not be allowed to leak the product without being sued by Apple. Many other products go through testing without being leaked. I do hope it is not a trend. I love during keynotes when Steve Jobs announces "it will be shipping from today" But appletv and phone and even the new airport extreme are all a future release date.The FCC posts all requests for certification publicly (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/). The posts include internal and external pictures of the device, as well as a number of technical specifications. The postings are often the first, and sometimes the only time some products come to light. The minute that post goes up, any veil of secrecy surrounding the existence of a product is toast. Manufacturers can (and do) request short-term confidentiality for things like the schematic and photographs, but the application itself -- the dead giveaway of the product -- is still posted. For example, here's one of the applications (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=938977&fcc_id='BCGA1143') for the new AirPort Express that was also announced. This letter (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=745374&native_or_pdf=pdf) (PDF, sorry) indicates that its schematics and pictures may be released this coming Monday, but the application itself dates back to October. By announcing now, before the application is posted, Apple gains maximum "shock & awe" for the phone.

Me, I'm waiting to see how well Cingular controls the test phones once it gets them from Apple, and how Apple/Steve reacts when the first one inevitably gets loose. I couldn't tell you the number of times I've seen prototype phones from other manufacturers show up on eBay after "trusted, experienced user" testing starts at the first carrier to pick up a phone.

bketchum

Jan 10, 2007, 06:36 PM

MacrumorsLive said the phone, "knows where you are". Does it have GPS built in?
No. It's got Skynet.
I'm not sure if you're kidding, but if the iPhone does have SkyNet, is it not GPS?

http://www.skynetmobile.com/faq.htm

fiddle245

Jan 10, 2007, 06:38 PM

You're obviously clueless when it comes to trademarks. If anything, it's a negotiating ploy on the part of cisco to get more money.

Dont blame the messanger. Werent you the one who said Apple
had this in the bag? Apparently not...

The Scotsman

Jan 10, 2007, 06:38 PM

Also bear in mind that Apple normally doesn't announce hardware until it's either sitting in the back rooms of their stores or darn close to it. The Apple TV and "iPhone" (trademark litigation pending ;)) are rare exceptions to this. Intel only announced the Core 2 Quad was shipping earlier this week! I'm sure we'll see an eight core Mac before another month or two go by.

I certainly hope so. I must admit I did not max out my credit card over xmas just incase a new 8-core mac was announced yesterday. In a month I might have paid a little more off so can maybe get aperture bundled with it and a little more memory.

Padraig

Jan 10, 2007, 07:38 PM

Texting is S-L-O-W and detrimental to one's thumbs. Who wants arthritis in their digits when they turn 40?

Most of what you are talking about can be sent faster via email. Email to email or email to phone. And you don't have to screw up your most important digit to do it.

Hours of playing Street fighter 2 as a kid, will have more of an impact on my thumbs than any phone will.

One of the most attractive aspects of texting is speed. Email on a phone doesn't even come close to it. On my nokia 6233 i hit at least 50 words a minute (and i'm one of those rare individuals that refrains from using txt spk), i don't even have to look at the screen.

alexf

Jan 10, 2007, 07:44 PM

um. you do know what a RUMOR is, right? if you believed the hype, and expected an 8core macpro with 4 graphics cards in SLI and 8 drive bays that is priced just above the imac that at the push of a button breaks the laws of physics and transforms into a 8"x11" 1/2" thick tablet running a new version of osx that has a built in win32 application layer and ilife07uber version and iwork07ultimatextreme1337 version.... well then thats your fault for believing the hype, isnt it? Dont blame apple just because YOU read rumors as gospel.

My friend, you obviously were not following any of the rumors just before MacWorld. (If you had been, I think you would also be surprised that Apple didn't announce anything other than the iPhone).

Maybe you haven't been in the Mac scene for very long, but if you review all of the MacWorld Keynotes over the last 5 years, you will see that they all had announcements pertaining to new Mac products (it is called MACWorld after all). :)

pengu

Jan 10, 2007, 08:00 PM

My friend, you obviously were not following any of the rumors just before MacWorld. (If you had been, I think you would also be surprised that Apple didn't announce anything other than the iPhone).

Maybe you haven't been in the Mac scene for very long, but if you review all of the MacWorld Keynotes over the last 5 years, you will see that they all had announcements pertaining to new Mac products (it is called MACWorld after all). :)

Well, I've been using Macs for about 14 years so I guess maybe that does make me new.

And yes I read many a rumor regarding products that might be released. However, as i pointed out. its just common sense. maybe this will make my point clearer:

A rumor (U.S.) or rumour (Commonwealth countries) is a piece of purportedly true information that circulates without substantiating evidence. The information content/payload of rumors can range from simple gossip to advanced propaganda techniques.

Do you notice the parts I added emphasis to?

Do you get my point. I dont care how many people on digg.com said "omg i saw this demo of a new apple notebook with a built in xxxxxxxxxx function!!!". until you see some RELIABLE proof of it, like, i dunno, a guy in a turtle-kneck saying "oh yeah, one more thing..." dont take it as gospel.

ki-goi

Jan 10, 2007, 08:08 PM

Imagine how many iPod owners and non iPod owners would buy it if it was just a phone and had the UI like the iPhone and the voice mail features.

i don't like to get into the business end of things. marketing is not my bag.

to agree with you i would just have to say, good point.

to disagree i would have to say,

first there was ipod, then there was ipod mini because ipod was more than the second set of buyers wanted, then there was ipod shuffle because there was a third set of buyers. now we have a phone strategy.

if it follows the same curve as ipod, first apple says, "yo! music phone buyers! looky looky! shiny touch phone! pritty pritty! be the first on your block!" unabashedly sexy and physical, like turny turny wheel on first ipod, apple brags, "touch your music" and "killer app is making a call." you've never called anybody until you've done them on the iphone.

then you say, here is the slim version. then you say, here is the version you swallow that lets you tune in your phone calls from space. waaaaaaa! the competitors are crying. boo hoo hoo.

i don't know which is right. i bought a 2GB ipod nano 4 years after the novelty was off because that was what i could use, the others were too big, too this, too that, same way i bought an alphasmart and years later, a palmish handheld, years after seriously considering buying an emate. i have narrow needs. it's entirely possible that an ancestor of iphone will replace this computer i'm using right now. love to see it.

illegalprelude

Jan 10, 2007, 08:49 PM

Well, I've been using Macs for about 14 years so I guess maybe that does make me new.

And yes I read many a rumor regarding products that might be released. However, as i pointed out. its just common sense. maybe this will make my point clearer:

Do you notice the parts I added emphasis to?

Do you get my point. I dont care how many people on digg.com said "omg i saw this demo of a new apple notebook with a built in <edited> function!!!". until you see some RELIABLE proof of it, like, i dunno, a guy in a turtle-kneck saying "oh yeah, one more thing..." dont take it as gospel.

hahahahahahahahaha. thank you. I didnt know other Mac users with common sense still existed. It seems like no matter what gets announced, this forum does an amazing job of b!tching like school girls, only to line up out side of Apple the day it comes out.

Now of course, many of the users i guess might not be able to find the Apple Incorporated stores because they will still be looking for the Apple Computers Incorporated :rolleyes:

Duck Man

Jan 10, 2007, 09:40 PM

Does any one know if you can swap in other sim cards such as T-Mobile and use iphone or is it locked down, what effects might occur to it if you put in other sim cards????:)

SheriffParker

Jan 10, 2007, 10:10 PM

Does any one know if you can swap in other sim cards such as T-Mobile and use iphone or is it locked down, what effects might occur to it if you put in other sim cards????:)

Don't try it. Your iPhone will blow up.

pengu

Jan 10, 2007, 10:10 PM

Does any one know if you can swap in other sim cards such as T-Mobile and use iphone or is it locked down, what effects might occur to it if you put in other sim cards????:)

Sim locking is a standard "feature" in GSM phones. It allows network providers to offer subsidised handsets without fear of a user simply using the phone with another network.

im not sure about the states, but here (australia) you can pay a fee to the original operator and have the phone unlocked. you can also usually find unlock codes online on slightly less than "legal"-orientated websites/forums.

G5Dual

Jan 10, 2007, 11:01 PM

Did anyone notice during the keynote, just before introducing the Cingular CEO, Steve said "visual voice mail is the first fruit of this collaboration, and you will see more." I wonder what that "more" will be? Keep your ears open for new feautures to be introduced prior to the iPhone shipping.

And let's hope Apple Inc. opens up the iPhone to developers...I can think of a lot of useful Widgets I'd like to see ported to this puppy before June.

Grokgod

Jan 11, 2007, 02:01 AM

How are you going to tell me that I dont think the phone is hot.

I dont care if Apple is making products for you. I am young, mobile, and have disposable income...this product is for ME.

:rolleyes:

I think the phone is fantastic, and I personally dont care if its useful for you.

That is so damn funny and TRUE!

I think that I will never forget it.

alexf

Jan 11, 2007, 02:25 AM

Do you notice the parts I added emphasis to?

Do you get my point. I dont care how many people on digg.com said "omg i saw this demo of a new apple notebook with a built in xxxxxxxxxx function!!!". until you see some RELIABLE proof of it, like, i dunno, a guy in a turtle-kneck saying "oh yeah, one more thing..." dont take it as gospel.

hahahahahahahahaha. thank you. I didnt know other Mac users with common sense still existed. It seems like no matter what gets announced, this forum does an amazing job of b!tching like school girls, only to line up out side of Apple the day it comes out.

Now of course, many of the users i guess might not be able to find the Apple Incorporated stores because they will still be looking for the Apple Computers Incorporated :rolleyes:

I know that this is a Mac forum, but I can't help but find it comical (and a bit ridiculous) how some people salivate over everything that Steve presents, regardless of what it may be. Then they criticize others who wish and expect more from Apple (and express that opinion in the forums instead of joining in on their party). :rolleyes:

All that I am saying is this: in light of other Mac-related rumors (and yes, of coarse they were ONLY rumors, as always) floating around before the Keynote (i.e. new displays, thin ultra-portable laptops, Leopard preview, etc.), this year's Keynote was a great disappointment for those of us who find it hard to get excited about or have no use for an Apple cell phone (which, I will admit, seems to be a beautifully designed device).

OK? Can we relax a little and not immediately jump to the defensive as soon as someone commits the "sin" of seemingly criticizing Apple? Let's use our powers of discrimination a little more. If I didn't love Apple products (which I have been using since 1985), then trust me, I would keep my mouth shut and really wouldn't care.

benzslrpee

Jan 11, 2007, 03:45 AM

fiddle245...

why is this not revolutionary? compare it to the leading smartphones in the U.S. right now: Treo, Blackberry, Symbian and Windows Mobile whatever...

- Treo...you want to know what's wrong with the Treo? step on over to Treo Central and read the countless complaints, issues, gripes about: the aging OS, the lack of multi-tasking, inefficiency of browsing the web, can't stream web media, email issues with Versamail, the endless search of a better launcher than the one that Palm offers, the endless search of better 3rd party apps that actually work on the 700p...believe me, i'm probably one of the few users on there that does not hate the 700p. i think mine serves me fine for what i need.

- Blackberry...first off, incorporate a freaking touch screen already. second off, stop it with the whole "everyone in America is a badass corporate warrior and needs to be in constant communication via email or else the multibillion dollar contract/merger/project will fail!" B freakin S, where i work most people use that to text their friends not lust after the latest update from the project leader. yeah, push email was innovative but if that's all your "smart" phone can do, well, it ain't that great after all. the whole argument about how you don't have to tote a laptop around just to check your mail is b.s too. go to the airport and tell me how many people you see with a laptop open. the Pearl is fine...but i don't see any high expectations of watching videos or photos on that small screen. sorry, even if you did get it for free.

- Symbian...popular everywhere else but here. 'nuff said.

- Windows Mobile...it's painful to use. the user interface is pretty bizarre. you can edit Excel, Word, Power Point blah blah blah has anyone actually tried to do any of those? i tried editing my term paper and after page 2 my eyes were ready to kill me for making them read line after line on an 240x240 resolution screen. not impressed. push email, don't get me started on this again. Internet Explorer, disgusting. PIM capabilities are ok i guess. still needs a stylus to be usable so it's not truly "one handed" operation although the Treo version does it pretty decently.

so please clarify for me, exactly which one of those can be considered the cream of the crop? forgive me but just cause everyone in a suit hounds a Blackberry doesn't make it marvelous technology. despite of Palm's ease of use Garnet is definitely outdated and becoming more unreliable with each new release of updated hardware.

most smart phone users (on forums or otherwise) are genuinely eager to see how badly the iPhone will trounce their own preferred devices. why? simply because smartphones haven't really progressed in forever yet you are the only one i've seen so far who is taking great pains to say that your Pearl can do everything the iPhone can do if not better.

Spanna

Jan 11, 2007, 04:01 AM

Can anyone speculate on when the iphone will make it to Australia and what carrier would be used. Also if the iphone arrives in Australia a year or so after the Americans get it, would we possibly skip the first gen and start with the second gen?

needthephone

Jan 11, 2007, 06:16 AM

This is T3's hands on review. soory if this is too long to post

http://blog.t3.co.uk/page/t3?entry=world_s_first_hands_on

World's first hands-on with iPhone

Wednesday January 10, 2007 Comments [15]
Security was rock solid as we were ushered into a darkened room. Once inside we were greeted by Greg "Woz" Jozwiak, vice president of worldwide product marketing for iPod and iPhone. On the desk in front of him was iPhone. Shaking with excitement, I was minutes away from having it in my hand.

Yesterday I was convinced, today convinced isn't a strong enough word. It's better than Steve Jobs said it was. It works just like he showed us. It feels like you don't want to put it down.

The model we were playing with still wasn't finished. It's nearly there, said Woz, but there's still some work to be done. Getting it ready for the UK too would take time and although he wouldn't be moved when asked, I reckon it'll be HSDPA, not EDGE when it lands in blighty.

Picking it up I was surprised by how black the thing is. Flicking the button on the top brings the super bright screen to life. My first touch was a tentative one. How would it cope with my podgy digits? Would I break it? It's hard not to have sweaty palms at times like this but I needn't have worried. It coped with all perfectly. Paw marks on the screen seemed to disappear magically. It didn't matter what angle I held it at, the screen still shone clear and bright.

First button I pushed was iPod. Lets go for something familiar. No instruction was given beforehand, and memories of what to do from seeing it yesterday were sketchy. What do I press? **** it, lets try that one. And that one, and that one. Every step was obvious and natural. I didn't need to flinch. I selected a video of the US Office and it fired up in no time. Wanting to watch it in full widescreen glory I flicked the device onto its side and the screen followed so smoothly I had to do it again. Footage looked good and very watchable and even the sound from the speakers wasn't too bad. Better than I expected.

Enough of that (I had four minutes with the device, need to check more features). The button below the screen takes you straight out of whatever app you're using and back to the main menu. No quitting, no saving and it takes milliseconds.

Fired up Safari and typed in T3.co.uk. I made a few mistakes on the soft kjeyboard and I didn't find it as intelligent as they suggested. When I hit "p" instead of "o" for .co.uk it didn't self correct as I would have expected it to. Still almost as soon as I hit GO T3's homepage was staring back at me.

Assuming your connection is decent, load times are pretty quick. But another conundrum. The "read more" link on the main story appears tiny on the screen, even after a quick double tap to magnify the story. How will it cope with sausage fingers now? As my main digit hovered over most of the intro paragraph of the story I gave a quick tap in the general vicinity of the link - surely I've just smudged the screen. No, it figured out what I was trying to do and instantly bounced me onto the turn page. Brilliant. It's cleverer than me!

It's getting close to hand-over now so only enough time to see what pictures look like, as this isn't the place to be making phone calls. The accelerometer which works out when you're viewing the device in landscape or portrait mode was faultless. Flicking from portrait to landscape delivers such a pleasing transition you just want to do it again and again.

I don't believe I've ever used a device that's as intuitive, and pleasing, as the iPhone. Everything is obvious, in the way Apple products generally are. Everything is beautiful, as we've come to expect and it is frighteningly clever. Yesterday Steve Jobs said Apple has launched a phone that is five years ahead of everything else. He wasn't ********ting.

The iPhone changes everything. Apple has moved the goal posts so far it's going to take other companies years just to find them, even before they can think about scoring a goal.

needthephone

Jan 11, 2007, 06:35 AM

Read today that the only 2.5 g EDGE network in OZ is Telstra so they say it would be logical for it to go to Telstra.

Everything else (ncluding Telstra's own NextGen network) is 3G so this brilliant phone will look out of date if this is the case. Like a moped engine in an Aston Martin.

I have a 3G and never use the video or internet stuff but this phone needs the speed of 3G to really get the internet capabilities working (which by all accounts actually work)- imagine Google earth on 2.5G-I have touble with it on broadband cable sometimes.

Still this thing sounds incredible, I'll get one If it gets here and if its 3G.
I'll take it without the phone and minus a few $'s...

Philsy

Jan 11, 2007, 06:37 AM

Read today that the only 2.5 g EDGE network in OZ is Telstra so they say it would be logical for it to go to Telstra.

Everything else (ncluding Telstra's own NextGen network) is 3G so this brilliant phone will look out of date if this is the case. Like a moped engne in a ferrari

I have a 3G and never use the video or internet stuff but this phone needs the speed of 3G to realy get the internet capabilities working - imagine Google earth on 2.5G-I have touble with it on broadband cable sometimes.

Still this thing sounds incredible, I'll get one If it gets here and if its 3G.
I'll take it without the phone and minus a few $'s...

Thanks for the T3 review - very interesting. Agreed on 3G - EDGE is a half-hearted way to boost 2G services and is a US thing.

glassbathroom

Jan 11, 2007, 08:15 AM

Once inside we were greeted by Greg "Woz" Jozwiak, vice president of worldwide product marketing for iPod and iPhone.

NOT Woz! T3 showing their ignorance of all things Apple.

emotion

Jan 11, 2007, 08:19 AM

Still this thing sounds incredible, I'll get one If it gets here and if its 3G.

Yeah that's got to be the source of the delay in getting it to Europe and Asia.

Remains to be seen I guess.

Evangelion

Jan 11, 2007, 09:36 AM

NOT Woz! T3 showing their ignorance of all things Apple.

Maybe "Woz" is his nickname inside Apple, since his name resembles Wozniak? Or maybe T3 called him "Woz" on their own? Anyway, I think it's safe to say that T3 doesn't think that Jozwiak is the Wozniak.

So take a chill-pill.

Diatribe

Jan 11, 2007, 09:56 AM

Please no 3G... you know how bad the battery life is on these things as it is, not even talking about a smart phone.

Evangelion

Jan 11, 2007, 10:08 AM

Apple isn't going to go backwards and take features out of this product to make a "true video ipod".

How would the be "going backwards"? They would be going forward. They would move the iPod a giant leap forward. And before you say "they woould be going backwards, since the new product would be inferior to this iPhone". Ummm... iPod and iPhone are two separate products. If Apple improves iPod, they are NOT "going backwards".

Apple will release a new 6G iPod soon. And it will be based on the iPhone-technology. It would be dumb for them to not use the tech.

needthephone

Jan 11, 2007, 10:12 AM

Iv'e just watched the keynote launch of the iphone and the description and the apple website do not do this justice. For all those who haven't seen it, you should take a look, its mind blowing. As T3 said its moved the goal posts so far the competitors won't know where to look for them. Read about in print and you will miss the gravity of this thing. Its revolutionary.

3g or no 3 g I want one and as someone said if its got wifi, I would proably use Skype anyway.

This is link to the you tube as I can't get the apple site keynotes to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKuM8lVOCg8&mode=related&search=

dave999z

Jan 11, 2007, 10:24 AM

I have only one question -- How is my corporation going to push email to this thing (and sync calendar and contacts)? Via Good, BES, ActiveSync, Intellisync?

Apple hasn't cited a single spec suggesting it will work with any of these protocols. If it doesn't, then it is not going to replace a blackberry or smartphone for the majority of businesspeople.

Is nobody else concerned about this? Windows Mobile may suck, but at least there are ways for corporations to push email to it. How is a corporation going to push email/calendar/contacts to an iPhone?

The iPhone's built-in Mail app probably will not support this -- I doubt Blackberry (BES) or Nokia (Intellisync) will license the software to Apple for use in Apple's mobile Mail client, because it'd take hardware sales away from them. Furthermore, I doubt Microsoft (ActiveSync) will license it either, because MS is in bed with hardware companies too. Maybe I could see Apple allowing Good Mobile Messaging to develop a standalone mail client for OSX mobile -- but it better interface well with the home screen, or it's not going to be a substitute for a blackberry or WM5 device.

There is no software development kit either, so no third party app is on the horizon for this (and the same licensing issues would be present anyway).

I think the iPhone is 1000x cooler than any blackberry or smartphone (even the blackjack). But without software for corporate email, it's useless to business end users.

What am I not seeing?

fiddle245

Jan 11, 2007, 10:40 AM

fiddle245...

why is this not revolutionary? compare it to the leading smartphones in the U.S. right now: Treo, Blackberry, Symbian and Windows Mobile whatever...

Why dont you compare it to this new LG phone the KE-80 that has a
full touchscreen as well:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/11/iphone-and-lg-ke850-separated-at-birth/

Revolutionary? Yeah right...

Mitthrawnuruodo

Jan 11, 2007, 10:42 AM

What am I not seeing?The finished product... for another six months or so, even more if you're somewhere outside the US...

yellow

Jan 11, 2007, 11:03 AM

And what is craptastic? I have a RAZR too and it's pretty good at 1 week standby battery time...

Not me..

< 2 days standby.. 10 hours of use and it's annoyobeeping at me.

That's craptastic.

Like every Motorola phone I've ever had (this is my 5th).

vikolaf

Jan 11, 2007, 11:06 AM

You're kidding? :eek:

Unfortunately not... In the US you get a bunch of minutes which are used for all calls (outgoing, incoming and even when you call the voicemail...).

Warbrain

Jan 11, 2007, 11:08 AM

Now, mind you, I don't think the iPhone is geared towards business users. It's a consumer product. Granted, many consumers won't buy a phone that's this expensive, but many still will. Apple is trying to show the proper way that a computer, a phone, and an DAP are supposed to converge.

Philsy

Jan 11, 2007, 11:12 AM

Unfortunately not... In the US you get a bunch of minutes which are used for all calls (outgoing, incoming and even when you call the voicemail...).

Gosh...:(

lightmyway

Jan 11, 2007, 11:16 AM

peharri

Jan 11, 2007, 11:27 AM

Please forgive my ignorance, but could someone briefly explain the difference between EDGE and 3G? Specifically, I've read that it's good that the iPhone has EDGE because you won't have to pay for a 3G data plan. Does that mean that the iPhone will just use "minutes" when using data options, or will the user have to buy a full-on data plan? My wife has a crappy Treo and we pay out the wazoo for a data plan (is that 3G or something else?). Now we're wondering that, if we both get an iPhone, whether our bill will be $200/month.

Any other info about EDGE vs. 3G (in non-techie lingo) would be greatly appreciated as well.

3G is a marketing and political term that effectively means a network with broadband speed Internet coupled with advanced voice services. UMTS is a 3G network type. CDMA2000 is kind of one too. GSM is a 2G network, and EDGE is an enhancement to GSM that gives it 3G like capabilities in some areas.

EDGE is officially a 3G standard, according to the ITU, but few people actually consider it one in real life.

Realistically, EDGE is limited to around 100kbps (more or less), whereas 3G networks will generally go to around 2-300kbps without falling over in most areas. The latter are being upgraded all the time, and faster rates are possible in some areas.

EDGE's real problem is its poor latency, which makes browsing the web slower than it should be. Latency is the speed at which a nugget of data travels through a network. For example, it might be that EDGE has a theoretical max speed of over 200kbps, but each time you make a request, it takes a second or two to arrive at the destination, and a similar amount of time for the destination's response to come back, so the network feels much slower than it should do.

Latency is less of an issue for most 3G networks, and is getting better (CDMA2000 with "revision B", UMTS with HSDPA/HSUPA.)

EDGE, and its slower predecessor GPRS, is the most widely available packet data system in the world, and its slow speed isn't considered a major issue considering most users are using it with phones and other small devices and downloading very small amounts of data. The Apple Telephonic Device's use of EDGE may hinder the web browsing ability of the device however.

In the medium term, expect a UMTS version of the phone, both because UMTS is common in Europe, the next major market the phone will be released in, and because both US major GSM (EDGE) networks are deploying UMTS networks this year (Cingular already has one in some parts of the country.)

In terms of pricing, EDGE is usually flat rate or charged by the kilobyte. It is rarely, if ever, charged by the minute. T-Mobile offers unlimited EDGE for between $6 and $20 a month, depending on the type of access you want, and Cingular's unlimited plans start around $20 and go up to $75, depending on the type of access you want there. (They're wierd, I expect them to simplify their plans in due time.)

peharri

Jan 11, 2007, 11:29 AM

Unfortunately not... In the US you get a bunch of minutes which are used for all calls (outgoing, incoming and even when you call the voicemail...).

But nights and weekends are almost always free, and voicemail calls and in-network mobile-to-mobile are usually free too.

In practice, very few people use all their minutes.

emotion

Jan 11, 2007, 11:39 AM

OdduWon

Jan 11, 2007, 11:43 AM

But nights and weekends are almost always free, and voicemail calls and in-network mobile-to-mobile are usually free too.

In practice, very few people use all their minutes.

Hopefully they still keep the free cingular to cingular calls once the iPhone is released. What will the internet/text/pic/email service cost? :eek:

emotion

Jan 11, 2007, 11:48 AM

What will the internet/text/pic/email service cost? :eek:

What the mobile phone companies seem to forget when moaning on about 3G take up (I talk from a UK angle but I suspect the rest of Europe is the same) is that people would want 3G for it's data handling abilities if only they would implement some sane costing data plans that people could understand.

T-Mobile is the only one to offer unlimited data plans in the UK (£7.50 for just the phone, 12.50 if you want to use the phone as a modem too).

The rest charge per MB which is a concept that should have been dropped 5 years ago. Like dialup has been.

whooleytoo

Jan 11, 2007, 11:59 AM

What the mobile phone companies seem to forget when moaning on about 3G take up (I talk from a UK angle but I suspect the rest of Europe is the same) is that people would want 3G for it's data handling abilities if only they would implement some sane costing data plans that people could understand.

T-Mobile is the only one to offer unlimited data plans in the UK (£7.50 for just the phone, 12.50 if you want to use the phone as a modem too).

The rest charge per MB which is a concept that should have been dropped 5 years ago. Like dialup has been.

I mentioned here (in one of the many, many iPhone threads) how I tried Mobile TV on my 3G phone to see how it'd look. "Supposedly", the data charges should have been included, but my last month's bill was 300 euros (normally, it's about 50). Apart from the fact it's completely against the terms I agreed to, I only spent around 20 minutes using it!

3G here is insanely expensive (plus, still too slow, and far too unreliable).

emotion

Jan 11, 2007, 12:04 PM

3G here is insanely expensive (plus, still too slow, and far too unreliable).

Yeah. I think that maybe Three are a bad example of the whole thing too.

The state of play with next gen technologies on mobile phone networks needs looking into.

The mobile phone networks are too used to raking in cash from text messaging. Which costs them virtually nothing to implement and run.

braesl

Jan 11, 2007, 12:36 PM

what can i say... i'm excited.
i live in china where they never sell locked phones.
but i'm assuming it will take forever for a version of iPhone to be released in mainland. Having stated how excited i am, i however would only buy this phone if it allowed for the same easy of language switching that Mac Os X allows, ie; between english, simplified chinese and korean that i do so easily on my mb. at the moment i can't use the 3 on my phone. texting in those three in addition to 3rd party dictionary or what have you, would put me over the line.
here hoping that the os will allow for it...

ChipperVW

Jan 11, 2007, 01:00 PM

Hopefully they still keep the free cingular to cingular calls once the iPhone is released. What will the internet/text/pic/email service cost? :eek:

my question exactly. I LOVE the iPhone and would LOVE to get one, but what will be required for the service from Cingular? Will it be a minimum $40/month voice service + $40-$60/month data service?

Speedracer04

Jan 11, 2007, 01:17 PM

my question exactly. I LOVE the iPhone and would LOVE to get one, but what will be required for the service from Cingular? Will it be a minimum $40/month voice service + $40-$60/month data service?

same concern here...I wouldnt be able to afford another $40-$60/month charge. However looking at it...I dont really see how you would absolutly need a data plan....You can still get the internet through the WiFi capabilities and I assume email also. And with a WiFi blanket coming to my area very soon, I could care less if I had EDGE because I would never use it.

fastdrive

Jan 11, 2007, 02:18 PM

Ugg

Jan 11, 2007, 02:25 PM

Having talked to a friend who's job duties include working on pricing plans at Cingular he has advised that they are planning a special bundled Iphone voice+data plan, but nothing has been finalized yet. It's still in the early stages.

The idea bascially is that everyone pays one price for the phone, and pick's either just 1 or maybe a choice of 2 plans and that's it. Keeping it really simple and integrated, the Apple way.

Hmmmm, I don't want to buy a phone if I'm locked into a two year, $50-100 a month contract. I make less than 2 hours of calls a month on my cel phone and since I despise contracts, pay as you go plans work best for me. I really could care less about the data plan, I'm only interested in the wifi. If Apple/Cingular don't offer a pay as you go plan, I won't be buying an iPhone even though I really want one.

fastdrive

Jan 11, 2007, 02:30 PM

I have no idea what current customers with existing plans would pay or how they would handle them. I had just talked to him in regards to me signing up with cingular as a new customer and purchasing the Iphone.

There maybe pay as you go plans, but that was really not discussed. Our conversation revolved around how many different data and voice plans they have and how this did not revolve around the way Apple usually does stuff. This is when he told me about the special package(s).

ki-goi

Jan 11, 2007, 02:34 PM

Did anyone notice during the keynote, just before introducing the Cingular CEO, Steve said "visual voice mail is the first fruit of this collaboration, and you will see more."

i did, and the main thing i could think to be done would be data sharing and synchronization like idisk allows, except across the cingular network, between phones. shared calendars, shared contacts, etc. it'd be a little complicated.

standardized push email is another possibility.

being able to tell if someone's phone is on before you call them.

routing calls based on caller ID. send this to me, send that to her, send the other to voice mail. can this already be done?

some kind of fax proxy service coupled with fax sender and viewer in phone.

sending out voice mails to event guests, with ical.

photo caller ID.

basically anything that can be done assuming that the user has (a) a computer to help out, (b) online storage space, (c) good mobile data bandwidth, and (d) this particular phone.

Georgie

Jan 11, 2007, 02:49 PM

I want to express my disappointment that the iPhone is tied to Cingular service. I was wowed by Mr. Jobs demonstration of the phone. It really is revolutionary in the market. It's fantastic. I want one. I would break my Verizon contract tomorrow and pay the $200 fine on top of the cost of the iPhone, knowing that it's a GSM-only device. I would buy one immediately but for one thing. It's tied to Cingular. I will not switch to Cingular, locked into an expensive two year plan. Especially given that I would be purchasing the iPhone at practically full price, without any discount from Cingular, I will not agree to a two-year contract with unknown data rates on top of that. I understand the desire to sell the iPhone unsubsidized, but there must be some advantage to that for the consumer as well. Premium costs should purchase premium quality (it appears to with the iPhone) and premium service (it does not with Cingular) With any other phone and any other company, anywhere else in the world, purchasing a phone full price gives the purchaser freedom to enter into non-binding contracts with cellular service providers. Unfortunately Apple's tie-in with Cingular is just the worst of both worlds, full price hardware, locked to Cingular's network, and a long-term contract.

I'm curious about the phone being locked to Cingular's service and what that means for international travel. Does this mean that when I travel overseas I can not use use a foreign sim card for lower local rates? Instead I'll be forced to pay Cingular's egregiously high overseas roaming rates. I hope this isn't the case; it's not acceptable.

The iPhone hardware is awe inspiring. Unfortunately the contractual obligations are a deal breaker. I hope Apple takes these sentiments into consideration as they consider future contracts. I do understand that certain features of the phone, like the visual voicemail, probably require some consolation from the service provider. Maybe the simple conference calling feature as well. But the consumer deserves some freedom, and those features aren't worth giving up freedom of choice. I want to think different, be free; instead by purchasing an iPhone I'll be tied to Cingular's onerous demands. They are consistently ranked the worst cellular provider in the United States by independent organizations like JD Power (Cingular's own unreleased "studies" aside). I might consider switching to Cingular, but I won't be told that I must pay full price for device and contract, sign a two year contract, and agree to as-yet-unknown billing structure (currently their data rates are expensive relative to their competitors).

I am wowed by the iPhone. I desparately want one. I've been waiting a long time for a beautiful device that syncs well with my MBP. I thought the iPhone was it, but apparently it is not. Not with such stipulations.

Mike Teezie

Jan 11, 2007, 02:50 PM

As it is right now, I pay about $90 a month to use my Blackberry. $50 plan, plus $40 unlimited data service. It's ridiculous, but I unfortunately have to be able to receive/send email anywhere, on the go.

If I could get this phone, and have the basic voice plan, then just use WiFi for email/internet, I would happily switch over. It would be worth the cost of the phone actually, because my monthly bills would be so much lower.

Service providers, like cable tv providers, have had it so good for so long. Raping us on every single little thing they can, like SMS texting, as the poster above stated. Not to mention I absolutely loathe the contract model, like I'm sure most everybody does.

Charge me an extra $100 for the phone, I don't care.

This is the one Apple product that no matter how great the user experience is, it will always be tainted with all the garbage that comes with dealing with a service provider. Maybe Apple can change the way it is, but I doubt it.

peharri

Jan 11, 2007, 04:13 PM

routing calls based on caller ID. send this to me, send that to her, send the other to voice mail. can this already be done?

Yes. GSM spec allows any incoming call to be forwarded to an arbitrary number. Few phones actually implement the recommended interface, but it's there.

some kind of fax proxy service coupled with fax sender and viewer in phone.

GSM already natively supports fax. I had a Nokia 9000 in the late nineties and was able to send and receive faxes on it. Orange gave me a separate "fax number", so incoming fax calls were just handled by the phone transparently. It, if you'll pardon the phrase, "just worked".

sending out voice mails to event guests, with ical.

I'd just implement that over MMS. I'm surprised, to be honest, no mobile phone companies have thought of integrating voicemail with MMS. WHy do I have to make a phone call to recieve a voicemail, why can't I just receive them as MMS messages and choose to listen to them and delete them on my phone, in whatever order I want? Perhaps Apple's "visual voicemail" will spur a few Cingular competitors to do exactly that.

photo caller ID.

Already a feature on most camera phones. You do, of course, have to associate a picture with each number.

bonehead

Jan 11, 2007, 04:57 PM

rcm3

Jan 11, 2007, 08:39 PM

This blurb from PC World which I found using news.google brings up some fairly good questions which will all need to be answered eventually.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128511-c,cellphones/article.html

I'm looking forward to this as much as anyone! But I need some more answers before dropping the cash.

mac-er

Jan 11, 2007, 09:14 PM

II know more about technology & business than you could ever wish
to learn

People who say things like this rarely know anything at all. By the way, we use proper grammar, don't use net-speak, and we don't wrap our text in this forum unlike the cell phone forums you came from.

Anyways....

Some things I am curious about...

1. I have dropped my cell phone several times, and it has held up like a champ (even dropped it on concrete). I wonder how the iPhone will hold up because everyone drops their phone from time to time.

2. Apple will sell the iPhone on their website. I wonder how they will handle the plans portion. Will they simply overlay their own web interface on Cingular's so Apple controls what the site looks like or link you to the Cingular website?

3. Apple's retail employees will have to become trained in selling and pushing the various aspects of cell phone plans. I am sure Cingular will want them to push plans hard.

4. Most cell phone manufacturers have you send your phone to the cell phone company for repair. I wonder how Apple will handle this and will AppleCare be available for it?

Any thoughts?

paja

Jan 11, 2007, 09:31 PM

Gizmodo, run by bunch of Gates fanboys up deep in the M$ booty, is calling the iPhone the "Chickphone" ie: the Gayphone and the "JesusPhone". They feel it will be dead by the time it ships. The blog entries are brutal and so are the comments. The weak and timid should avoid it as to not get your feelings hurt.

Engadget is almost as bad. They even question Jobs honesty and don't believe it's running OS X at all. They even suggest that Apple ripped of the LG KE850 Phone.

The dogs have been set loose. It all out war to kill the iPhone before it ships.

mac-er

Jan 11, 2007, 09:33 PM

with unknown data rates on top of that...and agree to as-yet-unknown billing structure (currently their data rates are expensive relative to their competitors).

Looks pretty known and competitive to me:
Sprint: Unlimited Data Pack: $39.99
Nextel: 5 MB Blackberry Plan: $39.99, Unlimited $49.99
Verizon: 1350 Voice and Unlimited Data $109.99 (does not break out data, but is around $39.99)
T-Mobile: T-Mobile Internet Unlimited with email: $39.98

AT&T Cingular: PDA Unlimited: $39.99

This was extremely easy to find. I don't know why you said AT&T Cingular's data rates are not competitive or unknown.

made4mac

Jan 11, 2007, 09:41 PM

GregA

Jan 11, 2007, 09:51 PM

Apple's retail employees will have to become trained in selling and pushing the various aspects of cell phone plans. I am sure Cingular will want them to push plans hard.Yeah, that's not a simple thing.

One of the rumours is that Cingular is making 2 special plans for the iPhone. So, I guess, there'd be 2 iPhones (4GB/8GB) and 2 plans to choose from (high end or low end).

That makes a lot of sense for Apple employees. However, it'd be nice to have a greater range of options especially if you go to a cingular store.

(Says the Aussie who's got no Cingular experience)

failsafe1

Jan 11, 2007, 09:57 PM

This looks like a great product but, I just wanted a better iPod. Why make a great portable video player then cut it off at the knees by putting a max of 8gb in it? This is one Apple product that I wouldn't buy because it just doesn't make any sense. What I mean is how stupid does Steve Job think most people are? I have met some stupid people but everyone of them knows how to use a phone easily. Did the phone really need to be "reinvented". IMHO is product is going nowhere.

I think this is a better iPod. This is a portable device not a permanent storage unit so for me 8gb would be plenty. What doesn't make sense to you? Sure everyone knows how to use a phone but easier is always better. You could say the same thing with each generation of phones from rotary to the current stuff.I think this device combines what is most useful with an easy to use interface. Don't know if I will own one yet but I like what I see.

fiddle245

Jan 11, 2007, 11:02 PM

I think this is a better iPod. This is a portable device not a permanent storage unit so for me 8gb would be plenty. What doesn't make sense to you? Sure everyone knows how to use a phone but easier is always better. You could say the same thing with each generation of phones from rotary to the current stuff.I think this device combines what is most useful with an easy to use interface. Don't know if I will own one yet but I like what I see.

Whats the point of having video w/ 4 gb when only 1 movie takes up 2-3 GB by itself?

pengu

Jan 11, 2007, 11:38 PM

Whats the point of having video w/ 4 gb when only 1 movie takes up 2-3 GB by itself?

Personally im not likely to watch a full length movie on it, but a music video, or a funny clip i find, or maybe even an episode of family guy if im on a flight, would be cool.. however i do understand your disappointment at the amount of storage.. a 16gb high end, or the capacity for MS/SD/xD card (one format, i wouldnt expect them all)..

it has an ipod connector right? what about the ipod camera adapter? maybe it (or a revised/hacked model) could be used to access content on a usb flash drive?

berkleeboy210

Jan 12, 2007, 12:06 AM

Hey Guys,

I'm not sure if this has been asked before buy anywoo:

I was thinking about this whole FCC thing tonight.

Steve said it takes 2 months for approval, so does that mean that the phones are not in production yet, and will not go into production until they get approved?

If i remember correctly, I've been to Engadget in the past when they say phones were approved by the FCC they are released within 2 weeks.

But 2 months from now is March, and I thought why not Apple Surprise us on there birthday April 1 w/ an Early iPhone release?

If anyone has some info on the whole FCC Process, please post.

Thanks, and Let me know your thoughts on my opinions!

Ugg

Jan 12, 2007, 12:18 AM

I was thinking about this whole FCC thing tonight.

Steve said it takes 2 months for approval, so does that mean that the phones are not in production yet, and will not go into production until they get approved?

If i remember correctly, I've been to Engadget in the past when they say phones were approved by the FCC they are released within 2 weeks.

But 2 months from now is March, and I thought why not Apple Surprise us on there birthday April 1 w/ an Early iPhone release?

If anyone has some info on the whole FCC Process, please post.

I don't know about the whole approval process but two months sounds right as Apple is new to the phone business. Also, they need to manufacture them so that probably takes a month or so, then add on quality control, shipping etc.

I also question how ready the phone is for FCC approval. I think I read where Apple won't submit its application for a couple more weeks. The phones that various journalists have played with seem to be fully functional so....

1 April would be a pretty cool release date. Something tells me that something will be released to commemorate their 30th. Maybe the 50" monitor and complete home video/computing package?

jesteraver

Jan 12, 2007, 12:28 AM

One thing if/when the iPhone comes to Canada hopefully Rogers will come out with an unlimited data plan for the phone.

**** was going too say something else. Oh yah hope it will have great reception in the metro system here in Montreal. Be sweet to be able too surf the net.

poppe

Jan 12, 2007, 01:54 AM

I don't see why they couldn't say to the phone companies. Look we got this amazing product you want it well work with us and start modifying your network... surely they could have persuaded them this..

anyways I'm curious on the poster above. He said that the data plans for sprint are 39.99... Kinda curious on that. See maybe I don't have a Data Plan maybe I do... I thought I did

I have the PPC 6700

My Unlimited internet is 15 bucks per month. My unlimited text is another 10, but I get it free because I signed up with sprint when they originally started releasing their color screen ("3g" as they called it) phones.

So what makes a data plan? Hooking it up to your laptop or is mine a data plan because technically I'm getting it for 15 bucks a month for unlimited internet and if I wanted picture that'd be another 10 or maybe 5

britishempire

Jan 12, 2007, 05:07 AM

Ok, so... I'm really sorry if this has already been discussed, but I don't have time to read back 40 pages >_<

Can anyone tell me how this will work in Europe and specifically the UK?

I really can't afford to spend £300+ on a handset and then a £20 or so monthly service fee as well.

I don't use the phone *that* much... I spend maybe £10 a month on pay as you go credit...

I would *love* to have an iPhone based on Steve's demo, but if I can't get one on pay as you go, I'm afraid I'll have to pass.

rcha101

Jan 12, 2007, 07:06 AM

First of all Apple this is an excellent device and I will definitely be buying one.

I would just like to remind everyone what the CEO of Palm, Ed Colligan, said "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in." These words will go down in history much like the original comments on the iPod. And what about their comments again today "How do you compete with vaporware?", this guy will be out of the job within 12 months.

If this product gets adopted by the business community (though unlikely with what we know so far) it kill everyone PDA producer out there.

I hope that when this comes to the UK that I will be able to purchase it without having to signup for a contract (just started my new one). I imagine that the exclusive period will only be for initial sales maybe until sometime in 2008 and then after that you will be able to buy it in Apple stores unlocked. As soon as these are sold unlocked in any country it will be grey imported all over the world, hence why they would have to do this. Apple must be getting major kickbacks from the cellphone carriers because they are going to miss out big time on unit sales by going down this track.

I was shocked to hear that it will take so long to get these out in the UK, absolutely unbelievable. I find myself in a crazy position where a product is announced I want and are able to buy it but I wont be able to for up to 11 months and even then I can't just walk into a store and get it. Crazy. And whats more it gives their competitors ages to try to come up with something to compete against it.

Technology will come so far that by the end of the year 4 and 8GB will not be enough storage. Apple will have to push this up to something like 20GB just so I can keep all my music, photos and some of my vids on it and that's before it's even available.

Will this use isync or itunes or both to sync?

Cons:
Needs a removable battery (this is a big thing for a lot of people)
Not available now
No flash for camera
No front camera for ichat/skype video calls

Philsy

Jan 12, 2007, 07:22 AM

Will this use isync or itunes or both to sync?

Keynote implied iTunes.

needthephone

Jan 12, 2007, 08:04 AM

I managed to watch the keynote speech on apple and was compelled for the whole 2 hours, Iv'e never watched one before as I usually have better things to do.

When you watch it yourself I just can't understand some of the comments like it was souless?? What, they guy thanked his employees families and was almost in tesars for gods sake. You could tell he was excited.

Now seeing it demoed and it has wifi I would buy one even if it is not 3g. I have a 3g phone and most of the time (particularly last year) it was only operating on 2 g and the call quality is not any better on 3g. I don't use the internet or video call (pointless)as I don't want to rack up a heavy bill. I have 3g as it was free to phone my wifes 3 phone and still is.

But I would use the iphone in wifi mode in my house, at work and out in the street (Sydney has pretty good coverage) so its like a lap top in a way.

I honestly think It is a revolutioary gizmo but when he pointed out the billion phones sold a year apple is going to stat stepping on some big shoes as well as MS's.

Watch out Apple, they won't take it lying down and as somebody has already said the attack dogs are out to get you.....

ts1973

Jan 12, 2007, 08:13 AM

When you watch it yourself I just can't understand some of the comments like it was souless?? What, they guy thanked his employees families and was almost in tesars for gods sake. You could tell he was excited.

I did say that Apple sold its soul to Cingular to be able to make the iPhone, and get it out at $499/$599. And I'm sticking with that.

However you're absolutely right that Jobs was very moved when talking about the iPhone. Actually he seemed more emotional than I've ever seen him (actually, maybe the first time we saw him getting emotional ;) )

Philsy

Jan 12, 2007, 09:08 AM

I like the natural way the iPhone scrolls (I'm sure Apple will have a name for this). It occurs to me that a similar effect would be a nice feature for Leopard (so long as it could be turned off if you didn't want it).

What do you think?

blurtigo

Jan 12, 2007, 09:20 AM

TequilaBoobs

Jan 12, 2007, 09:22 AM

how will this phone look in 5 years?

Philsy

Jan 12, 2007, 09:23 AM

According to this press-release, it's just been renamed to iTouch Mobile:

http://associatedpress.newsvine.com/_news/2007/01/12/517473-apple-renames-iphone-to-itouch-mobile

Not too sure about that name myself, and it's all a bit of a fiasco renaming it so quickly.

Oh dear, that's a mouthful. Why not just call it iMobile or Apple Mobile?

Shouldn't this be added on the main Rumour site?

Philsy

Jan 12, 2007, 09:23 AM

how will this phone look in 5 years?

Old, of course ;)

Warbrain

Jan 12, 2007, 09:24 AM

how will this phone look in 5 years?

Down right sexy.

emotion

Jan 12, 2007, 09:26 AM

According to this press-release, it's just been renamed to iTouch Mobile:

http://associatedpress.newsvine.com/_news/2007/01/12/517473-apple-renames-iphone-to-itouch-mobile

Not too sure about that name myself, and it's all a bit of a fiasco renaming it so quickly.

haha. From the article:

"DO NOT PUBLISH UNTIL 01-12-2007 GMT 20:00:00"

6 hours early.

emotion

Jan 12, 2007, 09:34 AM

how will this phone look in 5 years?

Not as daft as some of the comments I've seen in this thread.

ki-goi

Jan 12, 2007, 10:03 AM

According to this press-release, it's just been renamed to iTouch Mobile:

http://associatedpress.newsvine.com/_news/2007/01/12/517473-apple-renames-iphone-to-itouch-mobile

good name. wow, does this imply that there will be an iTouch TooHeavyTooCarry? world's first touch-sensitive cement block. what would be the features. check your email while keeping the door open? "all your music -- in the bin of your wheelbarrow"?

anyway no joke it's another good hint that many kinds of iTouch devices will be showing up. wonder if the touch thing is practical for nano-sized devices.

Trekkie

Jan 12, 2007, 10:15 AM

Or it could be just a bluff against Cisco. They were the one who would stand to benefit from the name sharing, not Apple. I wasn't impressed at all with their 'iphone' junk

pengu

Jan 12, 2007, 10:25 AM

and exactly how many people will think "Cisco" when they hear iphone? Also, Apple.com still has iPhone plastered all over it...

Georgie

Jan 12, 2007, 10:48 AM

Looks pretty known and competitive to me:
I don't know why you said AT&T Cingular's data rates are not competitive or unknown.

I said their unknown because Cingular has stated that there will likely be an iPhone-specific plan.

cjewby

Jan 12, 2007, 05:50 PM

Not sure if anyone has posted this before.. and I don't want to read all nearly 1000 posts, but Jeff Han, researcher at NYU has been researching multi-touch screens. On his website he recently updated saying "Yes, we saw the keynote too! We have some very, very exciting updates coming soon- stay tuned!"
Not sure what that means, but it doesn't seem like he's upset or surprised by the announcement.

Just food for thought... and the videos on Han's site are pretty cool. :)

balamw

Jan 12, 2007, 06:04 PM

Not sure what that means, but it doesn't seem like he's upset or surprised by the announcement.
The fact that Apple is calling their UI multi-touch is probably a hint that there's some relationship there, like CoverFlow mode. Where it turned out they just bought CoverFlow.

Shouldn't this be added on the main Rumour site?
The release should have been out by now. I guess it was a fake.

B

pengu

Jan 12, 2007, 10:31 PM

Yes, I think it was somehow. The "newsvine" site is purely user contributed news articles, and the one in question is suddenly unavilable, so i imagine it was someone being a smart ass...

johnnyjibbs

Jan 13, 2007, 02:27 PM

I'm very disappointed to hear that the phone is not 3G but hope it will be by the time it is released in the UK. '3G' literally means '3rd generation' network and, by the end of this year, I pretty much expect ALL phones in the UK. All of the top end phones are 3G capable (as well as containing GSM technology). 3G networks are pretty fast, and all 3G phones can do video calls and live mobile TV (something that is taking off in the UK right now).

The other thing: I was expecting the $499/$599 with 2 year contract to include the 2 year calls within it - i.e. so you don't need to pay a monthly line rental (just pay for any calls and texts, etc on top of your free minutes). Most plans in the UK are £20-£50 ($40-100) + but the phone (which would cost £300 on its own without a contract) is then subsidised to either free or max £100. Apple can't have it both ways. And only a 2MP camera with no video capabilities? Most new phones are now 3.2MP and Nokia has a 5MP camera on it. And no 3G video calls?

Finally, I hope I can get an O2 contract - they are by far the best network in my opinion. However, I fear it's going to be Vodafone... :(

kristoffer4

Jan 13, 2007, 03:53 PM

Do you think that the Iphone will have E-book reading?
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/...22213042.shtml

Also what about games? Surely some of the old Ipod games must be comming?

jhande

Jan 14, 2007, 03:39 AM

Do you think that the Iphone will have E-book reading?
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/...22213042.shtml

I'll second that. I don't think I've read a single book on paper (apart from manuals) in the past 4 years (or more, started reading e-books on the Palm V). Now I just have to convert all my pdb formats to ???.

I tried to read on the iPod, but it doesn't do it for me. I hope that a proper e-book reader is released.

Misplaced Mage

Jan 16, 2007, 12:37 AM

Steve said it takes 2 months for approval, so does that mean that the phones are not in production yet, and will not go into production until they get approved?Probably not, since if it fails certification (by either the FCC or a carrier) and one has to go back and change something in the hardware design, one is stuck with a large volume of already-built devices that need to be disassembled and reworked to implement the change. And if they can't be reworked, e.g., there's no room or a circuit board pad to squeeze in a new part previously thought to be unnecessary to meet RF requirements, then all the boards built to that time are just so much scrap. Either way, you incur a significant expense in the rework labor or scrapped boards. It's been done more than once in the past, however, by more than one company, usually in order to avoid the penalties that accompany some contracted delivery deadline to a customer. It's called, "building at risk."

If i remember correctly, I've been to Engadget in the past when they say phones were approved by the FCC they are released within 2 weeks.I've also seen ones that got FCC certification, and were never heard from again (http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/moto_2005_03/index.php?p=e7). :shrug: You place your bets, and you takes your chances.

But 2 months from now is March, and I thought why not Apple Surprise us on there birthday April 1 w/ an Early iPhone release?You're asking a government agency to run on time? :D Two months is the minimum period the process takes, assuming:
each and every one of all the phones submitted for testing can pass all the FCC tests with margin to spare on the very first pass
the phone's software is sufficiently debugged that no test unit locks up or crashes during the tests
there's no product ahead of yours in the queue (fat chance!)
the stars are properly aligned
etc.
It seldom happens. I'd be pleasantly surprised if it does, but I'm not about to hold my breath. Besides -- Apple was founded April 1, 1976. Apple's 30th anniversary has already come and gone.

If anyone has some info on the whole FCC Process, please post.Here's the starting point. (http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/)

bmoseley07

Jan 16, 2007, 01:26 AM

I can't start my own thread yet, but here's an article by the LA Times about how Japan's cellphones already have many of these features and more and that the iPhone doesn't even scratch the surface of many of Japan's latest phones, nevertheless be revolutionary.

http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-fi-japanphone11jan11,0,6424968.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The reporter doesn't get all his facts right. He says that the iPhone will/can be used to download music, but this came out on the 11th so he just wasn't in the loop yet.

Still a good read and I wish we had a lot of the features that they have over there like:

-GPS
-3G
-Live TV
-Video conferencing

All of which can be added and probably will be added either by software or hardware upgrades.

Nawa spent about $170 on her sharp phone, and $25 more to decorate it, though she says some friends spend much more on decorations. But neither she nor her friend Makiko Yamada, who are sampling the phones in Harajuku, would ever pay anything close to $500 for a cellphone. A hundred dollars, tops, Yamada says.

Interesting.

The only thing we don't know is if their phones have features like:

-visual voicemail
-full-feature browser
-widescreen view
-touchscreen

and many others, but clearly there is room to grow with the iPhone. That said, I think this is a great first generation iPhone and is a great start to a iPhone line that I believe- at least in America- is truely revolutionary.

Quality is what has me hooked on this phone. And that's what I think seperates it from the rest of the pack.

Cristian

Jan 16, 2007, 01:28 AM

I saw the keynote, it looks awesome.

tizianodb

Jan 16, 2007, 06:57 PM

mrmarkus1215

Jan 16, 2007, 11:18 PM

So this "push" feature is only available through Yahoo mail? Will I have to use the browser on the phone to check my Gmail instead of having the mail seamlessly transfered to the phone?

neonart

Jan 16, 2007, 11:19 PM

:confused:
i've just got home from my vacations in a deserted place with no internet or whatsoever and found out about the iPhone...
It sure looks great... and has some nice features... I was expecting something looking more like a full screen ipod mock ups..
Just one thing... did anybody noticed the click wheel is gone... I don't know about you but I'm not crazy about having to use my finger to scroll up and down in that way...
Don't we agree that the click wheel was one of the most cool features of the iPod... Then why not add a virtual one in the iPhone???
Ti

If you look carefully at the keynote, as Steve scrolls slow through the list, it appears that the scroll wheel gesture is still used for moving precisely through the lists.

Also there are really small letters on the right side of the screen, which can probably be used to jump to where you need to go. This makes the scroll wheel unnecessary.

I think they have a better interface, but it might take us a couple of minutes to figure out, just like when the iPod came out.

poppe

Jan 17, 2007, 01:05 AM

Compile 'em all

Jan 17, 2007, 09:33 AM

Quality is what has me hooked on this phone. And that's what I think seperates it from the rest of the pack.

What separates the iPhone from the rest of the pack is how you interact with and use it. Apple couldn't care less for the features, they did the same with the iPod and they are doing it now with the iPhone. Heck, even the Macs don't have that much features as their PC counterparts (read memory card readers and other crap).

Apple is all about Human-Machine interaction. Macs through OS X, the iPod through the clickwheel and now the iPhone using multitouch.

bmoseley07

Jan 18, 2007, 12:59 AM

What separates the iPhone from the rest of the pack is how you interact with and use it. Apple couldn't care less for the features, they did the same with the iPod and they are doing it now with the iPhone. Heck, even the Macs don't have that much features as their PC counterparts (read memory card readers and other crap).

Apple is all about Human-Machine interaction. Macs through OS X, the iPod through the clickwheel and now the iPhone using multitouch.

Precisely.

hob

Jan 19, 2007, 06:52 AM

I can't start my own thread yet, but here's an article by the LA Times about how Japan's cellphones already have many of these features and more and that the iPhone doesn't even scratch the surface of many of Japan's latest phones, nevertheless be revolutionary.

http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-fi-japanphone11jan11,0,6424968.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The reporter doesn't get all his facts right. He says that the iPhone will/can be used to download music, but this came out on the 11th so he just wasn't in the loop yet.

Still a good read and I wish we had a lot of the features that they have over there like:

-GPS
-3G
-Live TV
-Video conferencing

All of which can be added and probably will be added either by software or hardware upgrades.

Interesting.

The only thing we don't know is if their phones have features like:

-visual voicemail
-full-feature browser
-widescreen view
-touchscreen

and many others, but clearly there is room to grow with the iPhone. That said, I think this is a great first generation iPhone and is a great start to a iPhone line that I believe- at least in America- is truely revolutionary.

Quality is what has me hooked on this phone. And that's what I think seperates it from the rest of the pack.

Ok, I read the article. It seems to me, like I've thought for several years, that the US cell market is well behind the rest of the world. It's not just the japanese that can post their blog on the move, or buy movie tickets on their phone... True, mine doesn't have a GPS built in, but it can find me to within about 200m in the city, and tell me how to get places!

I think a lot of European customers are clamouring for a 3G version for this very reason, whereas many American customers would just shrug... :o

micmacmoc

Jan 20, 2007, 12:55 PM

I just hope that the 3 1/2 inch screen is large enough for people like me with fat fingers. I always have a problem with mobile phones so hopefully this will be the panacea that I need. :)

jhilton

Jan 21, 2007, 07:52 AM

I don't understand the people above who are complaining about this. This is everything you wanted and more! Stop complaining and get saving for this amazing phone. Say goodbye to the Zune! :)

monkeyandy I work in the telcoms industry here in the UK and I can tell you the concensus amoung a lot of people is that Apple have maybe bitten into an industry they do not really know enough about.

There are several problems with the iPhone

1) Its built for the US market, not the rest of the world, as it does not have 3g, so is simply not compatable with the business stratagies of network operators in the rest of the world which is a serious issue Apple will have to deal with! As many operators, esp ones here in europe are relying on 3G to bring in a major part of their revenue, and their price plans and services are being based round 3G.

2) Its price, most people on this forum clearly are not aware that phone makes produce a lot of models that never make it onto the market because it is the mobile operators that make the final decision (e.g. Sony produced nearly 50 handsets in 2006 that never made it to the market!), they have to subsadise the handsets so will only do it on phones they will make money on, regardless of demand!

Expensive phones (the price the OEM charges to the network - dont confuse this with the price of a handset without contract - they are very very different!!!) are not often subsadised as they will not claw back the money from the average person from calls unless there is a very clear market for them, e.g blackberry, and with no 3g on the iPhone that is a big loss in revenue too, one that many may not be willing to risk esp with mobile tv hotting up to be the next big mass demand service.

The price will place it in the expensive price plans region, e.g. for a businessman, and it can't do push and pull email like a Blackberry can so is no good for a business in reality.

If the average person was willing to spend £300 GBP on a phone, Nokia and Sony will have produced the same phone long ago.

3) 2Mp camera and no flash, thats not good compared to what the standard is fast becoming, expect 4MP+ with a flash in 2007.

4) Network operator response - not good so far here in europe from the people who actully make the decisions about which phones will be offered to the public on price plans.

5) No removable battery - a lot of people will not like this

6) There is no front camera for video calls - again showing no thought for the non-us market in its design.

The iPhone has been known about for a long time in the industry as have the major bugs it had when he first experimental models were produced and shown us network operators. Die hard Apple fans will love it, but I don't think the rest of the market is big enough as it stands.

If it had 3g, and was half the price then maybe, but the reality is if you look at the overall market, the proportion of people spending more than £75 on a handset is smaller than most people would think.

Though top marks in the design area, it looks good, can't fault it there, even if it is larger than what most people want.

But i think the major problem is it is simply not compatable with the current business plans of non-us mobile operators!

"Originally Posted by bmoseley07
I can't start my own thread yet, but here's an article by the LA Times about how Japan's cellphones already have many of these features and more and that the iPhone doesn't even scratch the surface of many of Japan's latest phones, nevertheless be revolutionary.

http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...home-headlines

The reporter doesn't get all his facts right. He says that the iPhone will/can be used to download music, but this came out on the 11th so he just wasn't in the loop yet.

Still a good read and I wish we had a lot of the features that they have over there like:

-GPS
-3G
-Live TV
-Video conferencing

All of which can be added and probably will be added either by software or hardware upgrades"

You can't just add on the above on as a software or hardware upgrade to the phone alone as a they are network dependent and use huge bandwidth, thats the issue, hence why operators outside of the US have had to spend so much money upgrading their networks and getting additional liciences.

If you want those things soon in the US, you best bet is to write to GWB, as you FCC will have to assign more frequencies to operators, and take the required frequencies away from the current holders, the USAF. Its a real pitty you didn't try and take up GSM/GPRS at the same time as the rest of the world did, its put the US in a catch up position for what looks like a long time to come.

No disrespect but from my expereince most people in the US who use mobile phones are simply not aware of how backward your cell infrastructure, pricing plans and services avalable are compred to the rest of the world - which always really surprises me!

But the above post probably makes me sound a bit negative about the iPhone, but in all honesty, i think its pretty cool from a personal point of view having actully had a play with a demo model, but from a business point of view, i'm just not convinced Apple have got it right this time, I just hope they are willing to live up to and satisfy the demands of us network operators who obviously are the ones with the power in the industry!

And contry to what Apple execs seem to think, we actully do know what the vast majority of consumers - our customers want in terms of features, and what they are willing to pay for them - its the one thing were actually quite good at now!

Ugg

Jan 21, 2007, 11:38 AM

monkeyandy I work in the telcoms industry here in the UK and I can tell you the concensus amoung a lot of people is that Apple have maybe bitten into an industry they do not really know enough about.

There are several problems with the iPhone

1) Its built for the US market, not the rest of the world, as it does not have 3g, so is simply not compatable with the business stratagies of network operators in the rest of the world which is a serious issue Apple will have to deal with! As many operators, esp ones here in europe are relying on 3G to bring in a major part of their revenue, and their price plans and services are being based round 3G.

At no point has Steve or Apple announced that non-USA iPhones will NOT have 3G.

As we all know from past announcements, Steve only tells the world what he wants. One thing he's not, is stupid. We'll obviously have to wait and see what the iPhone actually does but chances are, 3G will be a part of its European debut.

jhilton

Jan 21, 2007, 12:36 PM

At no point has Steve or Apple announced that non-USA iPhones will NOT have 3G.

As we all know from past announcements, Steve only tells the world what he wants. One thing he's not, is stupid. We'll obviously have to wait and see what the iPhone actually does but chances are, 3G will be a part of its European debut.

I can only go by what we have been told and show by Apple , and there have been no signs from Apple yet that the non-us version will have 3G, quite the opposit in fact, it was quite obvious it was intended to be a US aimed product, plus it will need a front camera too, and remember a 3G arial is quite large to fit in. No consultation has been made with us as to current and intended future 3G serivices either.....

jmsait19

Jan 21, 2007, 02:06 PM

because it is the mobile operators that make the final decision (e.g. Sony produced nearly 50 handsets in 2006 that never made it to the market!)

i think steve just made it known that he will make the decisions about the apple phone, not the phone provider... and from my impressions if steve doesn't get his way then he won't offer the device. he seems pretty hard-nosed, more that most, and he uses that to get his way. well hes a good salesman too

MonkeyClaw

Jan 21, 2007, 02:23 PM

At no point has Steve or Apple announced that non-USA iPhones will NOT have 3G.

As we all know from past announcements, Steve only tells the world what he wants. One thing he's not, is stupid. We'll obviously have to wait and see what the iPhone actually does but chances are, 3G will be a part of its European debut.

Actually he is quoted saying that it IS in the cards for later on. I'm thinking it will be in the final european release and possibly the US release.

Also, just out of curiosity, what is with the home button? It has a white square in the center and to be honest when I first saw it, I thought, that looks like a built in iSight. I wonder if its possible that its just a little secret up Apple's sleeve for the final release...

gwangung

Jan 21, 2007, 09:11 PM

I can only go by what we have been told and show by Apple , and there have been no signs from Apple yet that the non-us version will have 3G, quite the opposit in fact, it was quite obvious it was intended to be a US aimed product, plus it will need a front camera too, and remember a 3G arial is quite large to fit in. No consultation has been made with us as to current and intended future 3G serivices either.....

Well, apparently you're not paying very much attention because the Steve has most definitely said "3G is coming later." And that's been known from Day 1.

*sigh*

Also, as other people have pointed out, there are different commuting patterns at play in the US vs. the rest of the world (higher use of mass transit vs. solo commuting, etc.) which plays into the relative "backwardness" of the iPhone---these factors aren't quite as cut and dried as some are making them.

GregA

Jan 22, 2007, 05:59 AM

Well, apparently you're not paying very much attention because the Steve has most definitely said "3G is coming later."You lost me gwangung. "Ugg" says that Steve hasn't said it won't be 3G and "jhilton" replies that Steve clearly said the phone is GSM+EDGE. And jhilton is right.

Steve certainly never said that the first iPhone would be 3G. If we want to have an interesting talk, then please reply fairly to what jhilton said. Sure Steve said 3G later. No problem.

there are different commuting patterns at play in the US vs. the rest of the world (higher use of mass transit vs. solo commuting, etc.) which plays into the relative "backwardness" of the iPhone---these factors aren't quite as cut and dried as some are making them.I'm really not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that US people don't need high speed data as much as Europeans so having slower data is not really a problem?

I guess that would be true - if you use it less, you need it less. Nah, I really can't see what you mean. US people use public transport more? or less? than Europeans. I assume you're saying Europeans use public transport more, so they have more need for access to high speed data on the move?

I'm confused by what you've said!

VespR

Jan 22, 2007, 07:19 AM

Being from the UK I feel 3G is an absolute must for a late entry into 2007, especially considering that it is a lot bigger than most standard phones. And whilst the interface is "pretty" that is something you will soon grow used to and at the end of the day it'll be the features that will keep you happy.

Things the iphone should have, but probably won't...

Bigger cam with flash.
Opens/Edits PDF/DOC/XLS (mini iWork)
Plays flash files, so YouTube.
3G, specifically HSDPA
DivX support. Although I know it won't, if it truly runs "OS X" then let me put VLC player on it.
GPS.
I didn't see MMS, so definitely put that there.
Maybe a small front cam for video conferencing.
And for fun, ability to play your songs as ring tones, although that probably won't happen either.

Bung that in there, and I'll pay £300 for it on top of my contract.

GregA

Jan 22, 2007, 07:26 AM

Hi VespR, I pretty well agree with your post.
Opens/Edits PDF/DOC/XLS (mini iWork)
Plays flash files, so YouTube.
Yeah... the iWork angle will be the most interesting to watch. A simple iWork app (or some interesting new take on the whole thing) is necessary if you're getting email and it has doc attachments.

The flash file thing is interesting. Steve said that they might convince YouTube to use h264. Perhaps Apple is building an "iTube" or a "YouPod"... an interface merged into the iPhone & iTunes for YouTube content...

VespR

Jan 22, 2007, 07:29 AM

Another thing I seem to have missed is that when Steve said Yahoo mail will be supporting push email, why has he not included this in .mac? Talk about alienating his own customers. The iphone has so much potential with .mac, and especially with that high price tag it's got to be one of Apple's most unattractive products.

GregA

Jan 22, 2007, 07:32 AM

why has he not included this in .mac? Talk about alienating his own customers.
Yes very interesting... is there a different plan for .Mac?

I guess we'll need to wait for 10.5 before we know.

Compile 'em all

Jan 22, 2007, 07:39 AM

Being from the UK I feel 3G is an absolute must for a late entry into 2007, especially considering that it is a lot bigger than most standard phones. And whilst the interface is "pretty" that is something you will soon grow used to and at the end of the day it'll be the features that will keep you happy.
.

How many times does this has to be said, Apple couldn't care less about features. The iPod was/is under-featured compared to other mp3 players, yet it flat out dominates the mp3 player market. Consumers (me included) will happily give up on features, for a device they can easily use.

VespR

Jan 22, 2007, 07:56 AM

Horrible comparison. An MP3 player is quite simply put.. An MP3 player. All they could ever mull over about adding is what codec to support and shall we put in a radio. What they did was made it easy to use.

This is a phone, and phones are one of the most competitive markets in the world. What sells a phone is FEATURES. You want something you can easily use?

http://www.onlinekosten.de/news/bilder/nokia_6151.jpg

There you go buddy. Large, dial-friendly keypad with dedicated keys and a clear and easy-to-read 262,144-colour display. And what's that going to cost you? Next to nothing!

But you're prepared to pay over $500 for something which I guarantee won't be easy to use. Why? Because you've used phones all your life, that above phone will feel like your mums nipple straight out of birth, easy to use. I put an iPhone in my mums hand she won't know what to do with it. Only computer literated people would feel comfortable with an iPhone. And only people who can afford to drop $500. At that price you expect more than ease of use.

The iphone is a SMARTPHONE and an expensive one at that. And therefore the consumer wants features. The competition this phone has is a feature-full N95.

Comparing this to ipod of 2001 is ridiculous. Different market, different competition.