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marco114
Jan 9, 2007, 02:57 PM
Does anyone know if Apple will open the iPhone up to 3rd party software development? I have tons of ideas spinning in my head from all of this, and it's all really cool.

Can anyone say Parallels for iPhone? (emulate palm, windows mobile).. :)



NewbieNerd
Jan 9, 2007, 03:51 PM
I am just praying that it is open to development because I would absolutely love to do it! That interests me more in the phone than anything.

kainjow
Jan 9, 2007, 04:08 PM
WWDC 07 will be awesome :)

I'm betting 99% chance that it'll be open to third part widgets. Not so sure about standard programs. We will have to wait and see.

marco114
Jan 9, 2007, 04:11 PM
I really need an SSH client so I can control my remote servers. Even better, make the OS X Server Manager available to the phone and watch out! That would be worth it's weight in gold then.

HiRez
Jan 9, 2007, 05:02 PM
I'm betting 99% chance that it'll be open to third part widgets. Not so sure about standard programs. We will have to wait and see.It runs OS X...doesn't that mean it should automatically support desktop apps? Is it some special "Lite" version of OS X or the real thing? Safari runs on it, right?

What I want to know is will Xcode run on it? Not that I'd want to do a ton of coding on such a device, but it'd be pretty cool. Add a little stand and foldup keyboard and you're all set to develop while camping.

elppa
Jan 9, 2007, 05:19 PM
There's a comment on this page from someone who claims to work for the Apple Store.

Adobe is working on special Apps at the moment (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-game-has-changed/3#c3092887)

I personally think it is a hoax because Apple Store employees know very well they are not allowed to post information on public message-boards and I doubt Apple would have told its retail staff all of this information.

elppa
Jan 9, 2007, 05:20 PM
It runs OS X...doesn't that mean it should automatically support desktop apps? Is it some special "Lite" version of OS X or the real thing? Safari runs on it, right?

What I want to know is will Xcode run on it? Not that I'd want to do a ton of coding on such a device, but it'd be pretty cool. Add a little stand and foldup keyboard and you're all set to develop while camping.

It's not the full blown version of OS X.

While Safari does run, it is not 2.0.4 that we are all using.

No RSS for a start.

GeeYouEye
Jan 9, 2007, 05:38 PM
I'm working on a development tool that would be pretty spiffy on an iPhone. But even so, with it's nice high-density screen, would Xcode using a bluetooth keyboard really be so bad?

Krevnik
Jan 9, 2007, 06:23 PM
Can anyone say Parallels for iPhone? (emulate palm, windows mobile).. :)

Good luck on this one... modern cell OSes are far too specialized to the hardware to write a reliable emulator. Even the device emulator used for the Windows Mobile SDK requires a special image crafted just for it. I can't take a WM5 image from a Dash and run it on the MDA, or vice versa.

Never mind the whole encrypted image keyed to the hardware ID of the phone issue.

ChrisA
Jan 9, 2007, 06:30 PM
Any idea which processor is inside the iPhone? I assume not i386 or PPC. This means Mac OS X is ported to yet another processor. I'm guessing ARM.

I would guess that Apple has an in-house iPhone cross development system that runs on the Mac. You code and compile on the Mac and then download a disk image to the iPhone. I doubt xcode runs on the phone

Widgets would be different

whooleytoo
Jan 9, 2007, 06:44 PM
There's a comment on this page from someone who claims to work for the Apple Store.

Adobe is working on special Apps at the moment (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-game-has-changed/3#c3092887)

I personally think it is a hoax because Apple Store employees know very well they are not allowed to post information on public message-boards and I doubt Apple would have told its retail staff all of this information.


Almost certainly a hoax if it's supposedly coming from an Apple Store employee - they'd be the last people within Apple to know.

Apart from 'partners' like Yahoo and Google, the only 3rd party development likely in the near future is - as said above - widgets. Easy to make and 'safer' than full-fledged development.

annodomini
Jan 9, 2007, 06:53 PM
I think it's pretty likely that they'll be emphasizing Dashboard widgets as their primary development environment. You know how they've been working on Dashcode, a Dashboard widget IDE? While Dashboard is pretty and some people like it, it's not a huge market that needs a specialized IDE. But if that's the primary development environment for the iPhone, that would make a lot more sense.

I hope they open it all the way up to development, so you can cross-compile to it and take full advantage of the operating system and hardware. While you're not going to be able to just recompile your application for it, being able to reuse existing libraries, other programming languages, and other technology will make it's value as a platform much greater.

kainjow
Jan 9, 2007, 08:55 PM
From MacInTouch (http://macintouch.com/)

The only two iPhones at the show were under glass, and Apple representatives said it is a "closed platform", refusing even to identify the specific processor it uses, and there's apparently no developer kit for it, though "developers who want to do applications [for the iPhone] are welcome to contact Apple developer relations."

Wow... :(

Nutter
Jan 9, 2007, 09:46 PM
While Safari does run, it is not 2.0.4 that we are all using.


While the iPhone's web browser is called "Safari", what it appears to be is some funky new app based on WebKit (the API that Safari is based on).

Similarly, while the iPhone's OS is called "OS X", it's unlikely to be the complete OS X that we know and love. My installation of Mac OS X runs to about 2GB, and you wouldn't want that clogging up your iPhone would you? Besides, I can't imagine Apple has put 512MB RAM in there ... you get my point.

In short, I'd be surprised if it's technically possible to run standard Carbon and Cocoa applications on the thing.

Then again, I'm sure I saw Cocoa mentioned on one of Steve's slides...

Nutter
Jan 9, 2007, 09:49 PM
From MacInTouch (http://macintouch.com/)

Wow... :(

That is a shame. Somehow, though, I'm not surprised...

This will do wonders for dashboard. :)

jamesarm97
Jan 9, 2007, 09:53 PM
Two or three things I think it really needs to be usefull or so I would buy it. Does anyone know if some of these are already there or maybe could be added?

1) Notes. To be a usefull 'smart phone' I really need to be able to take short notes.
2) Remote Desktop. I use pcAnywhere mobile and Remote Desktop on my ppc6700. I really still need these.
3) SSH. Would be really handy, Again, I have this on my WM5 PPC6700 and use it when in a bind and need to fix something on a server remotely.

Thanks,
James

kainjow
Jan 9, 2007, 11:02 PM
1) Notes. To be a usefull 'smart phone' I really need to be able to take short notes.
2) Remote Desktop. I use pcAnywhere mobile and Remote Desktop on my ppc6700. I really still need these.
3) SSH. Would be really handy, Again, I have this on my WM5 PPC6700 and use it when in a bind and need to fix something on a server remotely.

Have you looked at the iPhone webpage? First screenshot includes a "Notes" app.

Remote Desktop and SSH are never going to happen on the iPhone without a third-party :rolleyes:

mduser63
Jan 10, 2007, 10:51 AM
Then again, I'm sure I saw Cocoa mentioned on one of Steve's slides...

Yeah, Steve definitely mentioned (on a slide and out loud) that Cocoa is part of the iPhone. Like the OS X version on there, I'm sure it's not a complete implementation, but still the prospect of developing Cocoa apps for such a cool mobile platform is really appealing to me. I hope Apple decides to open the thing up to developers, even if it's a ways in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if it launches as a closed platform, then at WWDC they announce the introduction of developer's tools for it.

Coheebuzz
Jan 11, 2007, 07:13 AM
Remember that the phone is a whole 5 months from its official release and making it an open platform for third-party developers would reveal the technologies behind the phone.

And if another mobile vendor can have a look at these new features fromthe inside, they will have more than enough time to implement similar features on their phones even before the iPhone is released.

So thats why developers have to contact Apple if they are interested to develop for iPhone, so that Apple can control who develops. My guess is that this is going to change the minute the iPhone is released officially.

On another note, Adobe released Device Central together with the CS3 beta, which shows their interest in handheld devices. I can see a whole new market created, this is exciting. :)

wmmk
Jan 11, 2007, 04:12 PM
the second somebody programs real(ish) apps for iPhone, I am selling my iPod, making a 2 or 3 GB playlist of my favorite songs, and saving every penny I earn until I have $500 (or $600, depending on what kind of summer job I get). If it's just widgets, I'll be fine with my el-crappo samsung, thank you very much...

gobluetrumpet
Jan 11, 2007, 08:03 PM
First of all, if Apple doesn't release an SDK for the iPhone version of OS X, it'll be the first major PDA/smart phone manufacturer not to do so. Every version of Palm OS and Windows CE/Handheld/whatever they call it now has supported third-party applications. I don't know why everyone is talking about the POSSIBILITY that the iPhone will too... I think it's a pretty damn obvious. Apple will make major profit certifying applications (in Microsoft fashion) and hardware to run on the OS, just as they did with the thousands of iPod accessories out there.

In fact, they will probably start seeding an early SDK and even actual devices to major developers (Belkin, yes Adobe/Macromedia, etc.) in the next few months so that there will be products available in conjunction with the June release. As far as trade secrets go, ever heard of a NDA? And yes, only trusted developers will get this information that far in advance... I don't think they intended to send PalmOne, Motorola, and Nokia all their trade secrets. They'll probably negotiate a deal with Microsoft, who may want to release Office reader apps or even an iPhone version of Office (as they did with Windows CE). The deal would of course contractually prevent Microsoft from copying the iPhone features... remember "Pirates of Silicon Valley"?

Lastly, the phone will obviously (unless it's REALLY revolutionary) not have a built-in compiler... someone may eventually get GCC to install, but that's doubtful. With the amount of RAM, the solid-state speed, and the processor speed the device will most likely have, I highly doubt it'll be able to handle compiling any high level languages. At best, you'll write the code on the iPhone and have it compiled on a remote server that does have the power. That could be done... and a basic SSH application could probably be written in a few hours, especially with Cocoa.

MisterMe
Jan 11, 2007, 11:16 PM
...

Lastly, the phone will obviously (unless it's REALLY revolutionary) not have a built-in compiler... someone may eventually get GCC to install, but that's doubtful. With the amount of RAM, the solid-state speed, and the processor speed the device will most likely have, I highly doubt it'll be able to handle compiling any high level languages. At best, you'll write the code on the iPhone and have it compiled on a remote server that does have the power. That could be done... and a basic SSH application could probably be written in a few hours, especially with Cocoa.Compared to my PowerBook G3 (running MacOS X 10.3), the iPhone has greater backing store and probably more RAM. The processor is more powerful. With these resources available, the iPhone can easily accommodate Xcode though its small screen size and soft keyboard represent a challenge to any potential developer who wants to use it as a development system. Remote access, either by terminal emulation or X11, should make commandline development a snap.

Nutter
Jan 11, 2007, 11:28 PM
Nobody was suggesting that the iPhone would have a built-in compiler. The subject is development for the iPhone, not development on the iPhone.

mydogfido
Jan 12, 2007, 03:54 AM
Let's think of the iPhone as a platform (excellent OS, good interface). And then lets think about the education market. Already people are trying, with difficulty due to the poor software - no Flash, no SMIL support, etc, to use the iPod for education. But the iPhone would be great. How can we convince Apple that their committment to the education market is weak without a solution that gives students their courses in their hands?

iEducate, where are you?