PDA

View Full Version : Hands on the iPhone, and History of iPhone?




Pages : [1] 2

MacRumors
Jan 10, 2007, 01:39 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Time.com (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1575743,00.html) was given some information about the development of the Apple iPhone. Of particular interest, especially to those who follow Apple rumors, is a tidbit about how the iPhone interface came to be. According to the author, "a few years ago" Steve Jobs noticed all the research money spent into Tablet PCs and had a team of Apple engineers working on a tablet interface with touch screen.

When they showed him the screen they came up with, he got excited. So excited that he thought he had the beginnings of a new product.

And so, the iPhone was born. What is interesting is that around this time, rumors of an Apple tablet had reemerged. Whispers of an Apple Tablet project began to resurface in late 2002 and peaked prior to Macworld SF 2003 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030221004455.shtml). No tablet came, but the description was an 8-inch multimedia device running Mac OS X. It appears that these rumors were likely true and based on this project.

This author as well as David Pogue (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time-with-the-iphone/) had some one-on-one time with the device, and provides these additional details and observations:

- Can't download songs directly from iTunes Store
- Can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly.
- "Web speed was OK—not great, but OK."
- "Apple went through numerous iterations of the glass surface, trying to find one that’s not too slick or too rough, or that shows grease and fingerprints too much. "
- "It feels amazing in your hand"

According to Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/), the iPhone is not open to 3rd party development at this time. Only Apple is providing (built-in) applications for the device.



J Radical
Jan 10, 2007, 01:44 AM
Interesting. Apple is a truly enigmatic company, I wonder where they'll go with iPhone in a few years time.

Anyone else feel no wireless syncing is a letdown?

cowbellallen
Jan 10, 2007, 01:44 AM
So how are you supposed to sync it?

Edit: Oh duh.

Grimace
Jan 10, 2007, 01:49 AM
Interesting. Apple is a truly enigmatic company, I wonder where they'll go with iPhone in a few years time.

Anyone else feel no wireless syncing is a letdown?

I think they could always enable wireless synching later on -- maybe just for phone/contacts/calendar. 8GB of music over Bluetooth would take forever!!

Difficult to type doesn't sound promising. I suppose I could say the same of my Treo.

Xeem
Jan 10, 2007, 01:50 AM
"Web speed was OK—not great, but OK."


I noticed this during the keynote, too. Does anyone else think that it loaded the web sites slower than they should over broadband internet?

Agamemnon
Jan 10, 2007, 01:52 AM
Interesting. Apple is a truly enigmatic company, I wonder where they'll go with iPhone in a few years time.

Anyone else feel no wireless syncing is a letdown?

Indeed, I thought .mac integration would be THE highlight.

technocoy
Jan 10, 2007, 01:53 AM
I'm still stoked about it, but it'll obviously take some criticism and iterations to get it perfect... look at how long the iPod has taken to evolve to what it is.

It's still leaps better than the other smartphones out as far as usability goes I would imagine...

Plus, typing on my E62 OR my treo, wasn't what I would call easy. and it takes some getting use to each device.

We'll see in 5 months, they have some time to tweak things.

c-Row
Jan 10, 2007, 01:53 AM
It provides no wireless sync in its current state. Keep in mind that there are still six months to go.

madamimadam
Jan 10, 2007, 01:53 AM
I think they could always enable wireless synching later on -- maybe just for phone/contacts/calendar. 8GB of music over Bluetooth would take forever!!

Yeah, so it is a good think it has WiFi ;)

balamw
Jan 10, 2007, 01:54 AM
I noticed this during the keynote, too. Does anyone else think that it loaded the web sites slower than they should over broadband internet?

Perhaps the pipes were saturated by the audience trying to get live updates out of the auditorium. :p

B

ForeverUnknown
Jan 10, 2007, 01:55 AM
I noticed this during the keynote, too. Does anyone else think that it loaded the websites slower than it should over broadband internet?

It only has EDGE which would be a reason for slower speeds.

balamw
Jan 10, 2007, 01:56 AM
Indeed, I thought .mac integration would be THE highlight.

If anything, the Yahoo! IMAP Mail integration almost makes it sound like .Mac is either on its way out or will change radiacally later this year.

It only has EDGE which would be a reason for slower speeds.
I'm pretty sure they were using the iPhone's WiFi connection, not EDGE.

B

DoktorFaust
Jan 10, 2007, 01:57 AM
According to Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/), the iPhone is not open to 3rd party development at this time. Only Apple is providing (built-in) applications for the device.

Actually, read that link and the discussion about it more carefully. It's not at all clear that there's any truth to that statement, and the poster (Ryan) admits that the source (Michael Gartenberg) might just be spewing speculation as fact.

In reality, Apple hasn't stated anything one way or another. Personally, I think it's very likely that this phone will allow third party development. It's running a version of MacOS X and building a community is vital to keeping a product alive.

iam1080
Jan 10, 2007, 01:58 AM
If wireless syncing was implemented, it would be done via WiFi, not bluetooth. This would include all data; including music / movie / photo.
Furthermore, it could stream wirelessly to an appleTV. This will all happen...eventually. Also, the touch screen interface is gold. Tech Specs claim 15+ hours battery of just music playback. Expect to see the Album Flow interface w/ touchscreen on ALL iPods. 6 months is a long time to go.. Just watch them release a new widescreen iPod w/ album flow sans camera and phone before then. We said it here first.

balamw
Jan 10, 2007, 01:59 AM
In reality, Apple hasn't stated anything one way or another. Personally, I think it's very likely that this phone will allow third party development. It's running a version of MacOS X and building a community is vital to keeping a product alive.

And Dashcode is just the tool to make it super-easy. Maybe I won't start seasoning my hat (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3232845#post3232845) just quite yet...

B

yoak
Jan 10, 2007, 02:01 AM
I´m feel quite sure it will be able to sync wirelessly with the Mac when it´s released, at least via BT.
That´s the nice thing about my W800i now, turn on BT and sync away.
An extra dock on my desk will not be welcomed

iMacZealot
Jan 10, 2007, 02:01 AM
It does look like typing is a bit of a task. I'm concerned that it may be a little sluggish, as that's how it looked.

Oh, and did anyone catch the comment Steve squeezed in saying that they will make a 3G one?

joose
Jan 10, 2007, 02:03 AM
Summary:
- No 3G/umts
- No SIP
- No iChat support
- No iChat videoconferencing support

we have had these GSM+EDGE phones for a long time now and almost every new phone is 3G phone these day. Who wants to go back to slow EDGE? And no SIP-support, which corporate wants to buy these things to workers?

What I would like to see, is (to osx) iChat with SIP-support and (to iPhone9 3G + SIP w/ video conferencing support.

- Joose

iMacZealot
Jan 10, 2007, 02:03 AM
If anything, the Yahoo! IMAP Mail integration almost makes it sound like .Mac is either on its way out or will change radiacally later this year.

I had the same idea! Although, I doubt they'd get rid of it since they have the whole iWeb thing, and advertise it on their adverts.

DeSnousa
Jan 10, 2007, 02:05 AM
[cut]

An extra dock on my desk will not be welcomed

...but it will also charge the iPhone, so I think it would be great / cool to have it standing (docked) next to your Mac.

aschrock
Jan 10, 2007, 02:05 AM
How long do you think Apple can hold off releasing the API for OSX lite (or whatever you want to call it)? It seems to me that a lot of the niche demands for functionality on the iPhone could easily be handled by 3rd party developers. Just look at the number of widgets alone created for OSX.

SeaFox
Jan 10, 2007, 02:09 AM
If anything, the Yahoo! IMAP Mail integration almost makes it sound like .Mac is either on its way out or will change radiacally later this year.

Maybe Yahoo will take over running the .Mac email addresses.
Hey, I'll finally be able to exercise some control over the junk filter and the mail service wont be "unavailable" once a month.
Oooh! Snap!

Xeem
Jan 10, 2007, 02:09 AM
Perhaps the pipes were saturated by the audience trying to get live updates out of the auditorium. :p

B

I suppose that is definitely possible, but you'd think Apple would have thought of it ahead of time.

darwen
Jan 10, 2007, 02:13 AM
I read this article a few hours ago. A great read for anyone interested in how the phone came to be.

I found it very interesting that the phone started as a tablet, a response to the tablets that are on the market today. Steve said this has been going on for 2.5 years, Cingular said they have been involved for 2 of those years.

2.5 years ago - Apple decides to invest in tablet technology.
2 years ago - the ipod comes out and apple start thinking about what is next.
~2 years ago - Apple starts talking to Cingular about a phone.

Here is what I found interesting. When Apple put in the patent for the multi-touch technology in September everyone thought tablet. That is what Steve thought! Shortly after people started talking about it being a part of the iPod... 2 years ago it did the same thing! Then people took it to the phone... Apple did it the same way!

I loved how consumers like us speculated the exact same transition Apple did 2 years after Apple. Once we saw the technology we thought just like Steve (and in about the same time frame). I thought that was cool.

EDIT: I dont know where I got 2 years from. I heard it somewhere today (to many sources now to count). The iPod has been around for 6 years. Maybe they were talking about the 5G ipod which came out 1.5 years ago... Not exactly sure, sorry for the mess up. My point still remains w/o that though.

deadkenny
Jan 10, 2007, 02:16 AM
My first opinion on the iPhone was: This is slaughtering the zune. At least it looks a lot like the zune. It has a lack of memory though. You can get Nokia cellphones with 8GB of flash and most smartphones have SD-Card slots so their memory is expandable.
The iPhone is quite nice for a smartphone but not revolutionary I think.
It has a large screen and can play vertical but it only has 8GB so not much video will fit on there.

dAlen
Jan 10, 2007, 02:20 AM
About apple TV.

Its about games...

If apple will compete with Microsoft they need to get into the games market.
We have playstaion 3 from Sony (of which I would love to get when it finally is released in Europe), and XBox from Microsoft.

Perhaps if Apple can make those billions a year from the cell phone, they will get in the games market.
By then the set-top war will mostly have gone to Xbox...as much as I like Sony and Blue ray, Micosoft usually gets in one way or another.
Peace

Dalen

SeaFox
Jan 10, 2007, 02:26 AM
I read this article a few hours ago. A great read for anyone interested in how the phone came to be.

I found it very interesting that the phone started as a tablet, a response to the tablets that are on the market today. Steve said this has been going on for 2.5 years, Cingular said they have been involved for 2 of those years.

2.5 years ago - Apple decides to invest in tablet technology.
2 years ago - the ipod comes out and apple start thinking about what is next.
~2 years ago - Apple starts talking to Cingular about a phone.

Well, I'm really going to ignore this article now, :rolleyes: seeing as the iPod has been out for six years. They can't even get the basic facts right.

So how are you supposed to sync it?
Edit: Oh duh.

No, wait. That's a very valid question. Why can't you sync it wirelessly? How does iSync sync things? Over the internet. So is there any reason a phone with internet connectivity cannot query the same servers?

NOV
Jan 10, 2007, 02:34 AM
With all those people and companies involved it seems a miracle so little leaked out

jmsait19
Jan 10, 2007, 02:35 AM
i bet when this phone ships it is 3G... i don't have much of a basis for this other than the standard it would be dumb to ship with old technology, but i'm just betting its a 3G phone when it ships...

and it will sync wirelessly... most of this stuff that is the downfall of the device at the moment will likely be corrected when the phone ships. it just wasn't available now and there isn't another major consumer conference before the ship date...

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 02:35 AM
Perhaps the pipes were saturated by the audience trying to get live updates out of the auditorium. :p

B

Likely.... besides, WiMax is coming around to a neighborhood/city
near you.

i bet when this phone ships it is 3G... i don't have much of a basis for this other than the standard it would be dumb to ship with old technology, but i'm just betting its a 3G phone when it ships...

and it will sync wirelessly... most of this stuff that is the downfall of the device at the moment will likely be corrected when the phone ships. it just wasn't available now and there isn't another major consumer conference before the ship date...

By the way, exactly where in David Pogue's review did he
mention anything about syncing or docking? Am I missing
a page?

ipearx
Jan 10, 2007, 02:41 AM
Not allowing third party apps on the iPhone is like not allowing third party apps on a Desktop computer - How much fun would a Mac be if you weren't allowed to install any other apps?

Also there's no mention of the processor used.

Yes I heard the mention of 3G too, so it sounds like this is definitely the first phone of many that are planned.

Some other big questions about the iPhone:
http://bla.st/site/blog/40/

Keymaster
Jan 10, 2007, 02:43 AM
How long do you think Apple can hold off releasing the API for OSX lite (or whatever you want to call it)? It seems to me that a lot of the niche demands for functionality on the iPhone could easily be handled by 3rd party developers. Just look at the number of widgets alone created for OSX.

There is already an API: all of the frameworks and such for OS X. Fire up Xcode, or Dashcode, and you too can write programs for the iPhone!

That's the beauty of this thing being based on OS X...we just need to know what APIs are installed, and then you can write and test on your OS X box, and then upload to the phone for final tweaking. At least, it should work that way...we'll have to see what the reality is.

puckhead193
Jan 10, 2007, 02:46 AM
seems interesting, i'll have to see if its worth it not....

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 02:47 AM
By the way, exactly where in David Pogue's review did he
mention anything about syncing or docking? Am I missing
a page?

Ah, second article, my error...:o

emotion
Jan 10, 2007, 02:49 AM
I think Apple need to up the specs before release.

Lack of 3G (and HSDPA for data) seems like a problem even now. The tie in with that Cingular contract is 2 years. Imagine how dated a lot of those features are going to feel even a year into that contract.

A expected the interface etc seems to be nice and I bet it's a lovely thing to hold but as it stands I have major reservations about the whole thing and I'd say I'm pretty much bang on the target audience for this.


By the time this lands in the UK (October maybe), just a 12 month tie in will give you a HSDPA phone with all those specs for free. In fact that's almost possible now. Granted it's not an Apple etc etc but not everyone thinks like us nerds on here.

dAlen
Jan 10, 2007, 02:49 AM
This kind of sums up my thoughts after reading David Pogues article:

- Stylus
Would have been nice to have a stylus.
With apples ink well character recognition system, it would have been cool for jotting down quick notes.

Also it would have been good to use for us artist (or non-artist) that like to doodle. (fun for the family) This is, after all, like a mini-computer...Stylus could have been hidden well with the design, and easily detachable.

- Carrier
First off, I dont have a phone or a cell phone.
(Haven't had one for years. I strictly use Broadband.)
I communicate with Skype. I can call your cell, landline, etc.
You can call me from your i-phone, cell, etc., as I have a phone number.
Point is, it would have been nice if this would have somehow worked with Broadband providers, or at least in addition to. Can it call ichat like it will be able to call my Skype number? (forgot ichat doesn't give you phone numbers, etc. But it would be cool if it did.) Is there a way to get away from traditional carriers Apple? Lets "not look at where the puck was, but where its going."

The silly cellular contracts, that add prices for various things like downloading songs from itunes after paying the normal .99 cents.

Probably why you cant download songs from itunes, as Cingular wants in on the cash from the songs downloaded, and it would make it more expensive for the user, unless its already in the contract, that is the price is pre-built in.

Steve, good job on the iphone.
But why call it iphone? Its 3 products in one.
Why not just call it ipod. (ipod video, ipod phone, etc.) Its like the center of the portable digital hub for Apple. But anyway, the name isn't the biggest issue.

One last thing on providers.
Im in Europe - the country of Hungary.
Seeing that Hungary doesn't even have an itunes store, I can imagine we wont have the iphone either in Q4 of this year. Why cant we have the widescreen ipod video instead? Or give people a choice of providers?

Again, nice concept, but nothing is infallible.

Peace

dAlen

yoak
Jan 10, 2007, 02:50 AM
...but it will also charge the iPhone, so I think it would be great / cool to have it standing (docked) next to your Mac.

Didn´t think of that. Still think I prefere to charge it elswhere though and keep my desk free. Might change my mind when I see it;)

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 02:52 AM
There is already an API: all of the frameworks and such for OS X. Fire up Xcode, or Dashcode, and you too can write programs for the iPhone!

That's the beauty of this thing being based on OS X...we just need to know what APIs are installed, and then you can write and test on your OS X box, and then upload to the phone for final tweaking. At least, it should work that way...we'll have to see what the reality is.

We will likely be able to configure/customize/hack quite
freely using OS X Mobile.

paulpet
Jan 10, 2007, 02:54 AM
There is already an API: all of the frameworks and such for OS X. Fire up Xcode, or Dashcode, and you too can write programs for the iPhone!

That's the beauty of this thing being based on OS X...we just need to know what APIs are installed, and then you can write and test on your OS X box, and then upload to the phone for final tweaking. At least, it should work that way...we'll have to see what the reality is.

I can't imagine the iPhone CPU is based around an x86 instruction set - so Apple would need to release an update to XCode before it would be able to compile an application that could run on an iPhone.

Sorry, I couldn't tell if you were implying that or not in your response so thought I'd mention it. :)

-Paul

macklos
Jan 10, 2007, 02:58 AM
Yeah the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will definetly be used. Think iTunes shared libraries. Think IT departments being able to service a computer remotely while being on the phone with one device in hand. etc. etc.

I too don't understand limiting it to a phone by name. But the initial market is such so be it. Apple marketing will have to work a little harder to get the message across that it is more than just a "smartphone".
Price...well who here paid $249 for an 8GB nano? Is it really hard to justify $349 more for phone, video, internet, and a bigger display, not really. And there is much more to it than that.

p.s. how many more accidents is this thing going to cause?

demenas
Jan 10, 2007, 03:00 AM
I think they could always enable wireless synching later on -- maybe just for phone/contacts/calendar. 8GB of music over Bluetooth would take forever!!


You would use Wireless, not Bluetooth.

Steve

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:01 AM
This kind of sums up my thoughts after reading David Pogues article:
(a bit shorter than my original post, getting to the point.)

- Stylus
Would have been nice to have a stylus.
With apples ink well character recognition system, it would have been cool for jotting down quick notes.

Also it would have been good to use for us artist (or non-artist) that like to doodle. (fun for the family) This is, after all, like a mini-computer...Stylus could have been hidden well with the design, and easily detachable.
dAlen

Third party styluses will be showering from the heavens.


- Carrier
First off, I dont have a phone or a cell phone.
(Haven't had one for years. I strictly use Broadband.)
I communicate with Skype. I can call your cell, landline, etc.
You can call me from your i-phone, cell, etc., as I have a phone number.
Point is, it would have been nice if this would have somehow worked with Broadband providers, or at least in addition to. Can it call ichat like it will be able to call my Skype number? (forgot ichat doesn't give you phone numbers, etc. But it would be cool if it did.) Is there a way to get away from traditional carriers Apple? Lets "not look at where the puck was, but where its going."
dAlen

Ebay will be selling them like bran muffins - unlocked - free to
use as you wish.


The silly cellular contracts, that add prices for various things like downloading songs from itunes after paying the normal .99 cents.
dAlen

Download your own - transfer them to your phone for less.


Probably why you cant download songs from itunes, as Cingular wants in on the cash from the songs downloaded, and it would make it more expensive for the user, unless its already in the contract, that is the price is pre-built in. dAlen

A hack/app will likely enable you to access iTunes directly, bypassing
Cingular completely - probably already in the works.


Steve, good job on the iphone.
But why call it iphone? Its 3 products in one.
Why not just call it ipod. (ipod video, ipod phone, etc.) Its like the center of the portable digital hub for Apple. But anyway, the name isn't the biggest issue. dAlen

For distinction - the masses have already heard of iPod - eventually,
the name will re-emerge as an all-inclusive.


One last thing on providers.
Im in Europe - the country of Hungary.
Seeing that Hungary doesn't even have an itunes store, I can imagine we wont have the iphone either in Q4 of this year. Why cant we have the widescreen ipod video instead? Or give people a choice of providers?
dAlen

The OS X (unix) OS will enable hackers to create apps to do
whatever pleases you - without restrictions


Again, nice concept, but nothing is infallible. dAlen

Only initially.....

SpaceJello
Jan 10, 2007, 03:06 AM
This is my little rant about the iphone:

- ipod that does phone capabilities, not iphone (like ipod-video, etc.) The ipod being the center of the portable digital life style with different levels as they currently have. They say its 3 products in one, but call it iphone, what gives...I was surprised the name stuck. Guess they want to go after that market so they want the word phone in peoples minds

- price...so you want to call it a phone and not a ipod which can do more than one thing...
well if you want people thinking that its a phone for marketing, you must keep it at normal/average phone prices. Besides those of us die-hards that saw some cool factors with this new device, I looked at commetns on regular news boards like CBS, and people dont get it. Until they see the demos on apples website, it wont click with most, and like one poster said about his wife saying it was to expensive, and he replied it was a computer too...it wont click...this is going to be the factor with a lot of people who have a preconceived concept on these matters. (human nature)

- carrier.

Dalen


Dalen,

In response, there is a huge portion of the general consumer public that isn't up to speed with current technology. Many people haven't even heard of Skype. I have a friend who has a Mac and needed help even in how to install Skype (just drag and drop into applications). This really has to do with cultural attitudes.

We have to remember Apple is first and foremost a US company. While it is international, the US is the most important market. No 3G, deal with Cingular, its all about business... I am sure eventually the iPhone will be on other carriers and that as the American market gets up to speed with internet and cellphone technologies, the iPhone will reflect that.

How many average consumer uses internet on the cellphone? Unless you have a smartphone you wouldn't need it. I hate using it to check movie times or anything, the UI has been pathetic.

It is only until this year that FINALLY the number of households in the US with a DVD player surpases the number thas a VHS player.... now think about it, we are already talking about HD DVD and BluRay.... Most people don't even know their difference or what the heck it is.

And as for iChat connectivity or video conferencing, remember there is a huge consumer population in the US that is still using very basic phones. Video phone conferencing is a reality elsewhere, but it is still really behind here in that regard.

I still meet many people who dislike the cellphone or even thinks that emails are horrible and destroying human communication.

Everyone on tech forums including this one, including myself just happens to be a small segment of the population that knows what's out there, the latest technology and are WILLING to embrace it.

pdxflint
Jan 10, 2007, 03:07 AM
...You can get Nokia cellphones with 8GB of flash and most smartphones have SD-Card slots so their memory is expandable.
The iPhone is quite nice for a smartphone but not revolutionary I think.
It has a large screen and can play vertical but it only has 8GB so not much video will fit on there.
True, not much video will fit on 8 gig, but about the smartphones that take SD cards... what's the biggest capacity SD card you can fit in one? Seems like a moot point. But, I'd like to have seen some kind of memory slot, nonetheless...

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:08 AM
About apple TV.

Its about games...

If apple will compete with Microsoft they need to get into the games market.
We have playstaion 3 from Sony (of which I would love to get when it finally is released in Europe), and XBox from Microsoft.

Perhaps if Apple can make those billions a year from the cell phone, they will get in the games market.
By then the set-top war will mostly have gone to Xbox...as much as I like Sony and Blue ray, Micosoft usually gets in one way or another.
Peace

Dalen

Quite true - This little box has the capacity to be quite the gaming machine.
Perhaps it needs a graphics card as well - revision b - Apple Gaming TV.

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:10 AM
True, not much video will fit on 8 gig, but about the smartphones that take SD cards... what's the biggest capacity SD card you can fit in one? Seems like a moot point. But, I'd like to have seen some kind of memory slot, nonetheless...

With new compression formats emerging - this will be less of a problem.
I saw a near HD quality demo of an hour movie which took up less than
320M.

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:12 AM
Dalen,

In response, there is a huge portion of the general consumer public that isn't up to speed with current technology. Many people haven't even heard of Skype. I have a friend who has a Mac and needed help even in how to install Skype (just drag and drop into applications). This really has to do with cultural attitudes.

We have to remember Apple is first and foremost a US company. While it is international, the US is the most important market. No 3G, deal with Cingular, its all about business... I am sure eventually the iPhone will be on other carriers and that as the American market gets up to speed with internet and cellphone technologies, the iPhone will reflect that.

How many average consumer uses internet on the cellphone? Unless you have a smartphone you wouldn't need it. I hate using it to check movie times or anything, the UI has been pathetic.

It is only until this year that FINALLY the number of households in the US with a DVD player surpases the number thas a VHS player.... now think about it, we are already talking about HD DVD and BluRay.... Most people don't even know their difference or what the heck it is.

And as for iChat connectivity or video conferencing, remember there is a huge consumer population in the US that is still using very basic phone. Video phone conferencing is a reality elsewhere, but it is still really behind here in that regard.

I still meet many people who dislike the cellphone or even thinks that emails are horrible and destroying human communication.

Everyone on tech forums including this one, including myself just happens to be a small segment of the population that knows what's out there, the latest technology and are WILLING to embrace it.

Hack away - this phone will employ SKYPE without a glitch.

charlie20003
Jan 10, 2007, 03:13 AM
Hi all, there's a Czech online phone about the iPhone here:

http://www.novinky.cz/10/61/19.html

Currently 60% of people have clicked the last option (It doesn't interest me). Probably says something about Czech apathy, but hey...

I'd like to redress the balance a little, so if you read this, click the second-last option "Vším dohromady" and do your bit...

Cheers all :D

Charlie

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:17 AM
Yeah the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will definetly be used. Think iTunes shared libraries. Think IT departments being able to service a computer remotely while being on the phone with one device in hand. etc. etc.

I too don't understand limiting it to a phone by name. But the initial market is such so be it. Apple marketing will have to work a little harder to get the message across that it is more than just a "smartphone".
Price...well who here paid $249 for an 8GB nano? Is it really hard to justify $349 more for phone, video, internet, and a bigger display, not really. And there is much more to it than that.

p.s. how many more accidents is this thing going to cause?

Basically, a true pocket PC with the elegance of OSX, Higher resolution
than a PSP2, True internet browsing and mapping, superior calling features, impeccable fidelity -- Heck, I'd pay even more (and do hope that a 16G
is available by summer)

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:19 AM
Hi all, there's a Czech online phone about the iPhone here:

http://www.novinky.cz/10/61/19.html

Currently 60% of people have clicked the last option (It doesn't interest me). Probably says something about Czech apathy, but hey...

I'd like to redress the balance a little, so if you read this, click the second-last option "Vším dohromady" and do your bit...

Cheers all :D

Charlie


Translation please? (on everything but the OS X option...)

SpaceJello
Jan 10, 2007, 03:21 AM
Hack away - this phone will employ SKYPE without a glitch.

HAHA I am sure it will come, but how are we to do video conference on the iPhone through skype when the camera is on the otherside of the phone?! :)

zebs1972
Jan 10, 2007, 03:22 AM
Great product especially as it is their first attempt. Hopefully we'll see a 3G+ product next year with a better camera, photobooth, iChat etc.

I am visually impaired and for the last couple of years I have had to start using a magnifier to read text due to an essential eye operation I had to have. I use the built in magnifier in OS X (god send and its FREE!). As the iPhone is a touch screen only product, I can't see it being very suitable for me (which I am gutted about) However I was impressed with the web feature how you can zoom in on certain parts of the screen. This product would be of use to me if I can enlarge/zoom the UI overall. OS X uses VoiceOver for people who require text to speech (screen readers), this technology would be useful to me and people driving in their cars etc so they can have their SMS and emails read to them either via the ear piece, or in built speaker or via a bluetooth device. Also the on screen keyboard looks very small and fiddly, would be nice if the user could choose to eithe ruse an on screen QWERTY keyboard or on screen telephone keypad for texting and emailing as the there are less telephone buttons so the buttons could be bigger (and predictive text could be used).

Who knows Apple might even bring out a phone with buttons for someone like me.

I wonder if the phone has vibrate for the hard of hearing?

I also streuggle to read the text on a normally iPod, so the ability to enlarge the text on those and/or have text to speech whilst scrolling through my library would be a god send and open the device up to the non seeing world. Many visually impaired users listen to audio books on bulky devices, easier access to the iPod would mean audio books would be more accessible on the iPod. Come on Apple, you already have the technology and you could implement it very easily.

I must admit I was very surprised nothing more was said about Leopard, and there was no mention of iLife/iWork'07. Another press conference due in the spring do you think?

MacPhilosopher
Jan 10, 2007, 03:23 AM
I have been anticipating this for so long that the excitment almost got the better of me. Apple has made such a strong turn towards entertainment that it fails to consider mixed users (professional and consumer) when developing these products. This is Apple's answer to the Treo and Blackberry's limitations as entertainment devices. Sadly, they seem to have limited this device on the pro side. Why not provide for both? I'm sure that 3rd party apps will help fill the void, but it may be costly for people who have invested a lot of cash in add-ons already. For the price, I sure hope that slick looking face holds up to the kind of abuse my Treo puts up with. I have gone without a case for months and it barely has rub marks on the plastic. I doubt that the iPhne will look pretty after a week or two in someone's pocket. Get a case, right? Well. anyone who carries a smartphone can tell you that the case really adds to the size.

Also, I sure hope that Apple and Cingular work out a nice package deal for phone and data. A check of their current price list makes using the iPhone's full capabilities a costly $120 plus dollars a month.

Oh, well. Just dissappointed that it doesn't have slide out keyboard or stylus. I really like the physical keyboard. Look for third party solutions like a fold out case/keyboard combination. Still, with all my whining, nice job Apple. You guys really know what you are doing in the consumer market!

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:24 AM
HAHA I am sure it will come, but how are we to do video conference on the iPhone through skype when the camera is on the otherside of the phone?! :)

Mirrors.

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:28 AM
Great product especially as it is their first attempt. Hopefully we'll see a 3G+ product next year with a better camera, photobooth, iChat etc.

I am visually impaired and for the last couple of years I have had to start using a magnifier to read text due to an essential eye operation I had to have. I use the built in magnifier in OS X (god send and its FREE!). As the iPhone is a touch screen only product, I can't see it being very suitable for me (which I am gutted about) However I was impressed with the web feature how you can zoom in on certain parts of the screen. This product would be of use to me if I can enlarge/zoom the UI overall. OS X uses VoiceOver for people who require text to speech (screen readers), this technology would be useful to me and people driving in their cars etc so they can have their SMS and emails read to them either via the ear piece, or in built speaker or via a bluetooth device. Also the on screen keyboard looks very small and fiddly, would be nice if the user could choose to eithe ruse an on screen QWERTY keyboard or on screen telephone keypad for texting and emailing as the there are less telephone buttons so the buttons could be bigger (and predictive text could be used).

Who knows Apple might even bring out a phone with buttons for someone like me.

I wonder if the phone has vibrate for the hard of hearing?

I also streuggle to read the text on a normally iPod, so the ability to enlarge the text on those and/or have text to speech whilst scrolling through my library would be a god send and open the device up to the non seeing world. Many visually impaired users listen to audio books on bulky devices, easier access to the iPod would mean audio books would be more accessible on the iPod. Come on Apple, you already have the technology and you could implement it very easily.

I must admit I was very surprised nothing more was said about Leopard, and there was no mention of iLife/iWork'07. Another press conference due in the spring do you think?

Don't know if vibration will be possible, but enlarging the keys will definitely be an option. Many modification will be available through developers once the phone has been released. Even Voiceover (through external speaker) will become functional.

konquererkarlos
Jan 10, 2007, 03:38 AM
Perhaps the pipes were saturated by the audience trying to get live updates out of the auditorium. :p

B

I second that non-serious comment. -notice that when a new keynote slide came up that was of interest, lost of audience members with their camera phones started to light up? I thought that was funny.

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:40 AM
I have been anticipating this for so long that the excitment almost got the better of me. Apple has made such a strong turn towards entertainment that it fails to consider mixed users (professional and consumer) when developing these products. This is Apple's answer to the Treo and Blackberry's limitations as entertainment devices. Sadly, they seem to have limited this device on the pro side. Why not provide for both? I'm sure that 3rd party apps will help fill the void, but it may be costly for people who have invested a lot of cash in add-ons already. For the price, I sure hope that slick looking face holds up to the kind of abuse my Treo puts up with. I have gone without a case for months and it barely has rub marks on the plastic. I doubt that the iPhne will look pretty after a week or two in someone's pocket. Get a case, right? Well. anyone who carries a smartphone can tell you that the case really adds to the size.

Also, I sure hope that Apple and Cingular work out a nice package deal for phone and data. A check of their current price list makes using the iPhone's full capabilities a costly $120 plus dollars a month.

Oh, well. Just dissappointed that it doesn't have slide out keyboard or stylus. I really like the physical keyboard. Look for third party solutions like a fold out case/keyboard combination. Still, with all my whining, nice job Apple. You guys really know what you are doing in the consumer market!

A bluetooth keyboard will likely sync with it. Also, expanding the size
of the virtual keypad will make typing MUCH less troublesome. Looking forward to hacking one for SKYPE and independent WiFi.

profoundmedia
Jan 10, 2007, 03:43 AM
I don't see why wireless sync matters. Every night you will have to dock iPhone to charge, everything will sync while your sleeping.

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:46 AM
I'm pretty sure they were using the iPhone's WiFi connection, not EDGE.

B

Hopefully, we can keep it that way:cool:

DMann
Jan 10, 2007, 03:49 AM
I don't see why wireless sync matters. Every night you will have to dock iPhone to charge, everything will sync while your sleeping.

Because Bluetooth wireless syncing is so COOL:cool:

I sync my RAZR wirelessly, and would not be inclined
to do so if docking was mandatory. (much less convenient)

I'm sure we'll have a choice by the time it's
released - Bluetooth for contacts and calendars,
docking for music and media.

Sabenth
Jan 10, 2007, 04:14 AM
A bluetooth keyboard will likely sync with it. Also, expanding the size
of the virtual keypad will make typing MUCH less troublesome. Looking forward to hacking one for SKYPE and independent WiFi.

I was going to mention a blue tooth or wirless keyboard but this would be in practical for most users dont want to be carrying around a keyboard just for a phone.. and the point of skype is to voice chat and send files etc... Not type well i dont type with skype..


One thing is for sure this is not a flash in the pan product its going to grow and grow ....

SPUY767
Jan 10, 2007, 04:41 AM
Listen people. Pogue's demo model probably had wireless syncing disabgled on the off chance that some idiot would see, iPhone, in his devices in iTunes, or some jackass would see it in his uPnP queue. The final iteration WILL have wireless syncing, or I'll eat my hat.

Alexander
Jan 10, 2007, 04:47 AM
Don't know if vibration will be possible

According to the guy demoing it on the big screen in front of massive crowds at Macworld, it does have a vibrator. (heh)

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 05:17 AM
A cool series of add ons will of course evolve around this phone.

I can see an add on that might double the thickness of the iphone and be equivalent (or a bit longer) in length - extending below or above so as to provide a (second) camera facing the user for ichat. Also other capabilities bundled in the same add on could include increased battery life, more storage and even a vibrator.

On second thought, perhaps iVibe should be a separate product, since it would be hard to use that and talk or iChat on the phone at the same time :D

c-Row
Jan 10, 2007, 05:17 AM
Likely.... besides, WiMax is coming around to a neighborhood/city

... and WiMax is...?

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 05:24 AM
What wifi standard does it actually support? 802.11n? Or -merely- 802.11b/g ?

It would be silly if it's not 802.11n because if you bring a 802.11b/g device on a 802.11n network the network will be scaled down to 802.11b/g speeds.

So just for using you slow (?) iPhone you're entire network will be slow...


From the iPhone page: Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0

so... don't leave it permanently on on your 802.11n network :)

willybNL
Jan 10, 2007, 05:24 AM
Nice thing, would buy it now.

But Steve, where is 3G and GPS? Or are they Future features?
I'd love to drop my TomTom too :P

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 05:25 AM
... and WiMax is...?

802.16 --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimax

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 05:29 AM
I would like to have more 'drive' space though. If I want to bring my media (audio/video/photo's) i think 8GB is a littlebit too small. The reason I don't have a nano is bacause my 2nd Gen iPod (20GB) is already stuffed and then I don't even have video / photo on there.

Also, would the thing be able to pair with other bluetooth devices than the bluetooth headphones?

Also rather stupid we Europeans have to wait until late 2007 :( Probably they are still looking for a European partner? Maybe I can get one over if I phone my American collegues? ;) I wonder if then all the functionality will work though...

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 05:32 AM
Nice thing, would buy it now.

But Steve, where is 3G and GPS? Or are they Future features?
I'd love to drop my TomTom too :P

3G is coming soon, perhaps not a big priority right now cause my understanding is that cingular is lagging with 3G.

Also I am getting mixed messages about the GPS functionality of the device - CNN said that it works with "Global Positioning Satellites"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/01/09/apple.macworld.ap/index.html

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 05:37 AM
3G is coming soon, perhaps not a big priority right now cause my understanding is that cingular is lagging with 3G.

Also I am getting mixed messages about the GPS functionality of the device - CNN said that it works with "Global Positioning Satellites"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/01/09/apple.macworld.ap/index.html

I think it just get your location by retreiving it from the cellular operator... Otherwise steve would have mentioned GPS as well.

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 05:42 AM
I think it just get your location by retreiving it from the cellular operator... Otherwise steve would have mentioned GPS as well.

Yeh that makes sense that he would have mentioned it - but a GPS sure would open up a whole nother set of capabilities. I see yet another add on possibilty happening here.

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 06:00 AM
Yeh that makes sense that he would have mentioned it - but a GPS sure would open up a whole nother set of capabilities. I see yet another add on possibilty happening here.

Indeed, but GPS is shown in the patents for the multifunctional device (http://www.macnn.com/blogs/?p=98) (which actually is the iPhone) which might mean it is in the works?

http://images.macnn.com/macnn/uspto/upsto_060907_18.gif

Looking at this pattent image I would say the following features are still missing from iPhone:

1. GPS
2. Games
3. Remote (could it handle hid profiles over bluetooth? I always use my K700i for remote controlling my PowerBook)
4. other?

MattyMac
Jan 10, 2007, 06:00 AM
You know what...eventhough it has some minor disadvantages (Very Very Very minor at that), it is still an UNBELIEVABELY amazing phone and I won't hesitate to buy the first generation of it....and most likely the generation after that, and after that, and after that:rolleyes: Just like I collect iPods:D

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 06:08 AM
... I won't hesitate to buy the first generation of it....and most likely the generation after that, and after that, and after that:rolleyes: Just like I collect iPods:D

So you keep your old ipods and you would keep your old iphones too? Perhaps a better way to go with the phones would be to sell them because they are tied to contracts - at least currently.

I hear others talking about an eBay aftermarket - but i wonder how that would work with a locked phone - I guess there's gonna be a whole lota hackin goin on.

danibo77
Jan 10, 2007, 06:10 AM
We have playstaion 3 from Sony (of which I would love to get when it finally is released in Europe), and XBox from Microsoft.
Dalen

You seem to be forgetting the Wii :)


How many average consumer uses internet on the cellphone? Unless you have a smartphone you wouldn't need it. I hate using it to check movie times or anything, the UI has been pathetic.


Quite many here in Norway.. The cellphone can be used for anything from payments in shops and billing, to parking-fees and ordering cinema tickets..


It is only until this year that FINALLY the number of households in the US with a DVD player surpases the number thas a VHS player.... now think about it, we are already talking about HD DVD and BluRay.... Most people don't even know their difference or what the heck it is.


VHS?? Can't remember the last time I saw someone with a vhs-player :)


And as for iChat connectivity or video conferencing, remember there is a huge consumer population in the US that is still using very basic phones. Video phone conferencing is a reality elsewhere, but it is still really behind here in that regard.


Apple, please give us 3G! Can't talk to my wife and child thorugh normal phone anymore, need to see them :)

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 06:21 AM
...the following features are still missing from iPhone:

1. GPS
2. Games
3. Remote (could it handle hid profiles over bluetooth? I always use my K700i for remote controlling my PowerBook)
4. other?

I think that 2. Games should be the first to check off the list - since that is a no brainer to add with software - given core animation and os x built right in. Apple would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't open this thing up to 3rd party developers - who would swoop all over gaming.

firsttube
Jan 10, 2007, 06:23 AM
I wish this alleged iphone would just get announced already, the suspense is killing me! What if it never comes out and apple plays us all for fools? :rolleyes: So where's my widescreen 12" powerbook g5, huh?

simontarr
Jan 10, 2007, 06:28 AM
I'm not sure if someone has already mentioned it but...

I have a feeling iTunes may be renamed when leopard is released. It no longer manages just music anymore. With the release of Apple TV being managed by it and now the entire iPhone (which is way more than just a phone) it just seems odd that they would still call iTunes iTunes :p

Can anyone think of some cool names? iLibrary? iCatalogue?

As you can tell, I'm not having the most creative of days :p

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 06:29 AM
I wish this alleged iphone would just get announced already, the suspense is killing me! What if it never comes out and apple plays us all for fools? :rolleyes: So where's my widescreen 12" powerbook g5, huh?

And my MacBook Pro 15" with high resolution screen, resolution independant Leopard, Santa Rosa, blue ray drive and a newer and better GPU? :) Now I have to wait until march to get one! ;)

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 06:30 AM
I'm not sure if someone has already mentioned it but...

I have a feeling iTunes may be renamed when leopard is released. It no longer manages just music anymore. With the release of Apple TV being managed by it and now the entire iPhone (which is way more than just a phone) it just seems odd that they would still call iTunes iTunes :p

Can anyone think of some cool names? iLibrary? iCatalogue?

As you can tell, I'm not having the most creative of days :p

iApple? iMedia? Although since iTunes is quite a strong name nowadays they may just keep the name instead of rebranding....

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 06:33 AM
Mi posting a lot right now - much coffee that i ordered with my virtual rumored g5 iphone :eek:

Come on iphone get here already and get one percent market share - 10 million new users will mean 5 million new safari browser hits - which will mean that many more reasons for big web sites to support safari better. And i'm sure those phones will support flash and not windoze medicore player.

Come-on CNN get with it!!!!

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 06:34 AM
NOT A SMARTPHONE!!

If Engadget is correct and you cannot install 3rd party applications, then -
- iPhone is not a smartphone.
- iPhone is dead on arrival
- What is apple thinking - no 3rd party applications - that is just stupidity - and apple have sunk to new levels of incompetence.

Apple have grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory and they don't understand what a smartphone is. They have truly redefined the 'smartphone' - unfortunately crippling it.

I hope this is only temporary until the software is complete.

The iPhone NEEDS 3rd party software AND Java support.

simontarr
Jan 10, 2007, 06:34 AM
iApple? iMedia? Although since iTunes is quite a strong name nowadays they may just keep the name instead of rebranding....

I agree that it's a strong name, but iTunes is synonymous with music & iPod. I just think that the name will be changed and maybe a 'new' application will replace it (not in Leopard though).

To me, it just makes sense to have a new application, or at least a rename for the software that is slowly but surely controlling all digital media on your mac.

Machead III
Jan 10, 2007, 06:39 AM
Ugh, isn't it obvious? We're not talking about a phone here, and it's not dead on arrival - this is a tablet PC.

The bloody thing plays HD movies! Did you see how fast cover flow was? Can you say multi-tasking?

You all realise that the processor in this thing is going to be 800Mhz+ right? And it's got to have at least 256mb of ram.

The Nokia N70 has 8mb of RAM...

This is a tablet PC, and that's why it's ~$1000 unlocked, $1999 locked inc. contract fees every month over 2 years.

If this is supposed to be a phone, it's literally the most expensive mainstream phone in history.

But it's not, it's a tablet PC, and I guess that's why Apple are charging (subsidised with contract) the same cost as a MacBook for it.

odedia
Jan 10, 2007, 06:39 AM
I agree that it's a strong name, but iTunes is synonymous with music & iPod. I just think that the name will be changed and maybe a 'new' application will replace it (not in Leopard though).

To me, it just makes sense to have a new application, or at least a rename for the software that is slowly but surely controlling all digital media on your mac.

Actually, they already changed the name, from "iTunes Music Store" to the "iTunes Store". So I guess that's how it will remain for a long time.

Oded S.

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 06:42 AM
It runs mobile OSX.

If its a tablet PC you should be able to install 3rd party apps on it.

What good is a tablet PC if you can only use 1st party software?!!!

Nokia N70 runs a slim OS - Symbian - and doesn't require LOTS of ram, i.e., 256mb. Mobile OSX and Symbian are different beasts and can't be compared that way. However, granted, Nokia do starve their phones of memory, just slightly - but it doesn't need 256mb of RAM.

Ugh, isn't it obvious? We're not talking about a phone here, and it's not dead on arrival - this is a tablet PC.

The bloody thing plays HD movies! Did you see how fast cover flow was? Can you say multi-tasking?

You all realise that the processor in this thing is going to be 800Mhz+ right? And it's got to have at least 256mb of ram.

The Nokia N70 has 8mb of RAM...

This is a tablet PC, and that's why it's ~$1000 unlocked, $1999 locked inc. contract fees every month over 2 years.

If this is supposed to be a phone, it's literally the most expensive mainstream phone in history.

But it's not, it's a tablet PC, and I guess that's why Apple are charging (subsidised with contract) the same cost as a MacBook for it.

simontarr
Jan 10, 2007, 06:44 AM
Actually, they already changed the name, from "iTunes Music Store" to the "iTunes Store". So I guess that's how it will remain for a long time.

Oded S.

I'm not talking just about the Music Store- I'm talking about the application as a whole. Are you saying that iTunes used to be 'officially' called the iTunes Music Store?

Orge
Jan 10, 2007, 06:55 AM
I noticed this during the keynote, too. Does anyone else think that it loaded the web sites slower than they should over broadband internet?

It wasn't loading, it was taking its time to render the pages. This is pretty normal, given the state of the art of embedded proocessors for phones. Whilst I think that Apple have put together a good package, it's still going to be subject to the same limitations their competitors are facing.

J

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 06:58 AM
Fire up XCode - and?

What do you compile against - what processor - what is the API?

This doesn't run the same OSX as your Mac - not a chance. It runs 'mobile' OSX - so the API differs.

Also Apple may require apps to be signed thus restricting developers.

How do you install your app / widget on the device - there may not be any installers?

If apple doesn't provide a mechanism for application installing then you don't stand a chance!

There is already an API: all of the frameworks and such for OS X. Fire up Xcode, or Dashcode, and you too can write programs for the iPhone!

That's the beauty of this thing being based on OS X...we just need to know what APIs are installed, and then you can write and test on your OS X box, and then upload to the phone for final tweaking. At least, it should work that way...we'll have to see what the reality is.

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 06:59 AM
It wasn't loading, it was taking its time to render the pages.

Are you sure about that? It seemed like the loading bar along the top was the limiting factor - albiet that may be directly dependent on how long it takes to render the page.

So this opens the question - what processor is this thing using? Did i hear somewhere the mention of an intel. What intel chip would have this class of performance?

SPUY767
Jan 10, 2007, 07:03 AM
I would like to have more 'drive' space though. If I want to bring my media (audio/video/photo's) i think 8GB is a littlebit too small. The reason I don't have a nano is bacause my 2nd Gen iPod (20GB) is already stuffed and then I don't even have video / photo on there.

Sounds to me like you sync your entire library. Out of 16000 songs that I have ripped, I can only find about 1500 that I REALLY like, so those are the 1600 in my iPod Playlist. Even in Apple Lossless format, they only take up about 3 Gigs of space, so I don't have a problem. Granted I can't get in a pissing contest with the dude that has his entire library on his iPod and spends all day skipping thru the tracks he doesn't want to hear, but I can turn mine on and not give it another look all day. This phone rocks, MacRumors people whine too much, and I'm going to own one the second they go on the market, cause my MessagePad 2100 is getting long in the tooth.

SPUY767
Jan 10, 2007, 07:04 AM
I'm not sure if someone has already mentioned it but...

I have a feeling iTunes may be renamed when leopard is released. It no longer manages just music anymore. With the release of Apple TV being managed by it and now the entire iPhone (which is way more than just a phone) it just seems odd that they would still call iTunes iTunes :p

Can anyone think of some cool names? iLibrary? iCatalogue?

As you can tell, I'm not having the most creative of days :p

iMedia fits, but don't expect it. Perhaps iSh*t if Steve is feeling confrontational. I can see the marketing releases. Get it together with iSh*t, all your ***** at your fingertips.

On a side note I would be quite nifty if this device could interface with iTV units via 802 as a remote control, i.e., if you've got an iTV, the iPhone detects it and downloads an iTV control widget. Awesome, a device like this, provided Apple allows it to be open, really does represent a possible revolition in mobile phone technology.

God it is priceless when it hangs up on the lady at starbucks during the Maps demo.

bigmc6000
Jan 10, 2007, 07:09 AM
I know that's what goes on here at macrumors (the excessive amount of hate for absolutely anything apple releases) but come on people. I've heard quite a few complaints:

1) Battery life is awful and you'll, gasp, have to plug it in every day.

Oh no, not plug it in!!! What in the world do you people do with your phone now? I get home - take my phone out of my pocket and plug it in. Why? It's certainly not because I need to - my phone gets 16 hrs of talk time - I just always like to have a 100% charge

2) it's hard to type

Oh come on - give me a break. a guy plays with it for 10 mins and says it's hard to type. When the iPod first came out people said the click wheel was hard to get used to and we all know how that turned out

3) "Only" 4/8 GB

It's a PHONE!!! when apple's most popular iPod is a 4GB it's quite obvious that not everyone has the massive libraries that most of us have.


I finally got a chance to see the keynote and watched the little demos online - I think this thing is freakin crazy awesome. I don't care if I need to plug it in to sync it - I'm betting 99.99% of you guys use your computers everyday anyway and you wouldn't need to sync it everyday - juts as often as you do your iPod right now.

I will agree on 1 thing tho - if that was a wi-fi connection they were using to get the webpages it was strangely slow - makes me think it was edge...

Count me in the group that can't wait for my contract to expire so I can get this bad boy! :) Lucky me, my company get's a 50% hardware discount w/ Cingular - hello $250!!!

Compile 'em all
Jan 10, 2007, 07:10 AM
I think they could always enable wireless synching later on -- maybe just for phone/contacts/calendar. 8GB of music over Bluetooth would take forever!!


What was meant by Wireless synching is WiFi not bluetooth.

ahasver
Jan 10, 2007, 07:11 AM
Summary:
- No 3G/umts
- No SIP
- No iChat support
- No iChat videoconferencing support

we have had these GSM+EDGE phones for a long time now and almost every new phone is 3G phone these day. Who wants to go back to slow EDGE? And no SIP-support, which corporate wants to buy these things to workers?

What I would like to see, is (to osx) iChat with SIP-support and (to iPhone9 3G + SIP w/ video conferencing support.

- Joose

FOLKS WAKE UP there will be no such thing as ichat in that phone. Your favorite company is there to make money and keep there partnes happy. Who would use the phone capability if you could use the free ichat (or skype for that matter). That won't happen ever (though that would real innovation wouldn't?) I am not mad about it because that is just a fact of life that big companies want to make big money.

Machead III
Jan 10, 2007, 07:20 AM
Oh course it'll be open to 3rd part developers, even Apple wouldn't cripple a product that much. At it's asronomically extoirtionate price, the only way it'd make any money is if it ran 3rd party apps.

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 07:21 AM
FOLKS WAKE UP there will be no such thing as ichat in that phone. Your favorite company is there to make money and keep there partnes happy. Who would use the phone capability if you could use the free ichat (or skype for that matter). That won't happen ever (though that would real innovation wouldn't?) I am not mad about it because that is just a fact of life that big companies want to make big money.

I fail to see how using iChat would diminish the big companies ability to make big money. Free iChat over wifi and paid over 3G. The truth is were talking about a new model here lots of powerful free functionality that drives users to the device - in turn cingular makes out like a bandit because you also have to contract with them.

Fortunately we don't have to squeeze water from a rock like the traditional lame-o cellular model.

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 07:22 AM
One giant apple apology, ahasver, open your eyes.

Hmmm..... my cell phone operator doesn't cripple phones and disallows its customers to install applications. I can install third party apps - including messenger clients - i.e., icq, aol, msn, VOIP apps et al.

So why should Apple close the iPhone off third party developers due to a small minority of u.s carriers who have bad reputations for its crippled phones?


FOLKS WAKE UP there will be no such thing as ichat in that phone. Your favorite company is there to make money and keep there partnes happy. Who would use the phone capability if you could use the free ichat (or skype for that matter). That won't happen ever (though that would real innovation wouldn't?) I am not mad about it because that is just a fact of life that big companies want to make big money.

rosalindavenue
Jan 10, 2007, 07:26 AM
.... Apple has made such a strong turn towards entertainment that it fails to consider mixed users (professional and consumer) when developing these products. This is Apple's answer to the Treo and Blackberry's limitations as entertainment devices. Sadly, they seem to have limited this device on the pro side. Why not provide for both? I'm sure that 3rd party apps will help fill the void, but it may be costly for people who have invested a lot of cash in add-ons already. For the price, I sure hope that slick looking face holds up to the kind of abuse my Treo puts up with. [...]

A check of their current price list makes using the iPhone's full capabilities a costly $120 plus dollars a month. [...]

Still, with all my whining, nice job Apple. You guys really know what you are doing in the consumer market!

Agreed 100%. The smartphone market is just starting with consumers, professionals (by this I mean people who can figure out how to get their employers/ businesses to pay for the gadget and the service) have been going strong for 2-3 years now. I just started a new contract with a treo 700p (verizon); my office has an exchange server and PCs with tons of PC only apps, so I couldn't use the iphone even if I wanted to. (Not to mention that cingular service is horrible here). If consumers are willing to pony up the cash (and the price is not bad at all for a phone, ipod and internet/OSX device) and (more importantly) cingular is willing to come up with a reasonable monthly data/phone plan, this could really catch on-- but its going to have to catch on with consumers, not business.

doowrehs
Jan 10, 2007, 07:26 AM
I've only skimmed through this thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned... But, if you watch the keynote again - specifically the part where Steve talks about the OS and 'solid foundations, etc.' - you'll see that he clearly emphasizes that the benefits of using OS X are that it enables them "to write apps; it's got cocoa; it's got core animation built-in...it's got all the stuff we want". Maybe it's just me, but I take from that that it's going to be opened up to wider development.

Compile 'em all
Jan 10, 2007, 07:27 AM
I


I will agree on 1 thing tho - if that was a wi-fi connection they were using to get the webpages it was strangely slow - makes me think it was edge...


Nope. If you actually read Pogue's article you will see that it uses Wi-Fi not EDGE. In any case, this thing still has 6 months to come out to the masses (USA masses :mad: ) and what we saw is nearly a prototype. 6 month is an awful alot of time, I even expect by that time the lower end iPhone will pack 8 gegs instead of 4.

myrsky
Jan 10, 2007, 07:30 AM
Looks great inside and out, but...

no 3G + no camera on front side = no video calls

--> kids won't see daddy even on the phone...

I would quess/hope these will be included in future versions... Untill then I'll probably have to suffer with my nokia...

j-a-x
Jan 10, 2007, 07:30 AM
Come on Apple, open it up to 3rd party developers so we can have SlothCam for the iPhone!!!

julric01
Jan 10, 2007, 07:32 AM
Anyone have any idea if they will even sell this thing without a contract or with a 1 year contract?

2 years is a lifetime in Technology - look at the iPods from 2 years ago! You know how fast Apple updates their stuff and I'd lay money that within 6 mos. to a year they have an iPone with 20 to 30 gigs and all sorts of updates.

With an iPod, that's no big deal - you just sell the other one or hand it down to your less techno friends and move on - but with a locked phone and the way the Cellular companies operate - your stuck with it bubba for 2 years and they won't let you upgrade - BECAUSE THAT'S FOR NEW CUSTOMERS, NOT YOU, YOU WORTHLESS TRASH - YOUR AN OLD CUSTOMER.

I can't believe nobody is screaming about that - how many of you have kept the same iPod for years? How many of you will keep the phone for 2 years even if they drastically update this one?

Don't get me wrong - I love the phone - I'll be in line to get on in June, I just wonder if we'll have any options on that contract?

I also wonder how much Cingular is going to stick it to you for Data - right now they have unlimited for $20 per month - but they've said they'll be out soon with plans for the iPhone - which makes me think they see $$ and will try to say this is different, you get the full web, so $20 per month isn't nearly enough. This thing is pretty much demanding unlimited data. I just hope Cingular sees that playing nice will actually get them more customers.

Just my opinion....

Hunabku
Jan 10, 2007, 07:41 AM
Anyone have any idea if they will even sell this thing without a contract or with a 1 year contract?

2 years is a lifetime in Technology - look at the iPods from 2 years ago! You know how fast Apple updates their stuff and....

Good point! Apple/Cingular should offer an upgrade plan that you could do mid contract. In that case they would probably make you extend your contract for another two years to subsidize the cost of the new iphone.

Arne
Jan 10, 2007, 07:44 AM
This might have been mentioned before, I didn't read all of the thread; if so, I am sorry.

If you look at the main menu of the iPhone, you will notice that it is not perfect, it looks incomplete. The icons are arranged asymmetrically and the menu doesn't look as if it is supposed to stay as it is. This could possibly be space reserved for Apple to add more software to the iPhone, but I think this space is for 3rd party programs. Why would Apple open the API's and everything, before the FCC has given it's OK? What if they were forced to change something that would also affect the API's? 3rd party programmers would have to change their programs and this might result in instable software (if not done well) because the software was never designed to run the way it will have to.

Just some thoughts..

failsafe1
Jan 10, 2007, 07:51 AM
I was wondering about the iSynch capability. I don't see how this can be left out of a final version. I would think the address book contacts synching would be something that was needed to be a part of the seamless mac experience.

timmillwood
Jan 10, 2007, 07:51 AM
Anyone have any idea if they will even sell this thing without a contract or with a 1 year contract?

2 years is a lifetime in Technology - look at the iPods from 2 years ago! You know how fast Apple updates their stuff and I'd lay money that within 6 mos. to a year they have an iPone with 20 to 30 gigs and all sorts of updates.

In the UK the max you can get is 18 Month contract so i hope to get it on 12 or 18 month contract, but gotta wait 6 months longer, so if u have 2 year and i have 18 month contract they will both end at the same time.

I just hope the iPhone 2g will be out by Q4

MacVault
Jan 10, 2007, 07:57 AM
Is the iPhone's Multitouch the same as Jeff Han's Multitouch here???... http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/

Why no GPS in the iPhone? That would be soooo sweet! MacrumorsLive said the iPhone, "knows where you are" for doing maps, etc. How does it know where you are? Don't tell me it only knows the general are from the cell network. That would be very dumb.

justflie
Jan 10, 2007, 08:01 AM
I can't imagine the iPhone CPU is based around an x86 instruction set - so Apple would need to release an update to XCode before it would be able to compile an application that could run on an iPhone.

Sorry, I couldn't tell if you were implying that or not in your response so thought I'd mention it. :)

-Paul

Perfect time to bundle a new xcode would be the leopard release I think.

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 08:02 AM
I was wondering about the iSynch capability. I don't see how this can be left out of a final version. I would think the address book contacts synching would be something that was needed to be a part of the seamless mac experience.


Of course syncing with be there otherwise it'll be a rather lame smartphone ( even more so if its not an open platform for developers ).

When they say no syncing over wireless they really mean WIFI - you'll sync over Bluetooth.

This might have been mentioned before, I didn't read all of the thread; if so, I am sorry.

If you look at the main menu of the iPhone, you will notice that it is not perfect, it looks incomplete.
<snip>

Just some thoughts..

The phone isn't complete, go to engadget and look at some links. The phone is not software complete - they still have more development work. It'll be released in June... Jobs said FCC takes two months for approval. January + two months isn't June!!

Apple needed unveil this device before it gets to FCC approval stage because then all devices become public knowledge.

SPUY767
Jan 10, 2007, 08:11 AM
One,I'm not 100% in love with your tone right now, and for a 2 year plus member, your post count isn't hig enough for your opinion to matter, or be taken seriously. Two, Apple doesn't roll over for anyone, they didn't do it for the 6 big media giants, and they're certainly not going to do it for a cellular company. Sure, you'll be able to send SMS, but I assure tyou that you'll be able to use iChat on that phone.

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 08:13 AM
LOL.

You should say who your directing your post to.
"your post count isn't hig enough for your opinion to matter, or be taken seriously"

Hmm.. since when does post count matter? Elitist.



One,I'm not 100% in love with your tone right now, and for a 2 year plus member, your post count isn't hig enough for your opinion to matter, or be taken seriously. Two, Apple doesn't roll over for anyone, they didn't do it for the 6 big media giants, and they're certainly not going to do it for a cellular company. Sure, you'll be able to send SMS, but I assure tyou that you'll be able to use iChat on that phone.

justflie
Jan 10, 2007, 08:13 AM
The phone isn't complete, go to engadget and look at some links. The phone is not software complete - they still have more development work. It'll be released in June... Jobs said FCC takes two months for approval. January + two months isn't June!!

Apple needed unveil this device before it gets to FCC approval stage because then all devices become public knowledge.

Agreed. Otherwise, we would have CERTAINLY seen some sort of mini photo booth in the home menu. lol, steve really likes photo booth and it will be integrated with the camera in the final design. I'm really hoping for them to bump the space up to 8 and 16 gb by june.

SPUY767
Jan 10, 2007, 08:13 AM
If you look at the main menu of the iPhone, you will notice that it is not perfect, it looks incomplete. The icons are arranged asymmetrically and the menu doesn't look as if it is supposed to stay as it is.

Maybe aApple's engineers, like the persian rug makers of old, believe that perfection is solely the realm of the creator and have therefor made the icons slightly off kilter in order to avoid dancing in the realm of the gods.

grahamtearne
Jan 10, 2007, 08:14 AM
when steve announced the iphone would reach europe by q4, is he talking about q4 of the calendar year of the fiscal year, i sure hope he was talking fiscal year (4th Quarter: July 1, 2007 – September 30, 2007).

also i am visiting usa in june, if i were to buy an iphone there how does it work, can i buy it unlocked or do you have contract only phones in the usa?

SPUY767
Jan 10, 2007, 08:15 AM
LOL.

You should say who your directing your post to.
"your post count isn't hig enough for your opinion to matter, or be taken seriously"

Hmm.. since when does post count matter? Elitist.

A post count of nine, for a two year member indicates a lack of desire to give feedback, and I'm hardly and elitist, having a high post count doesn't make your opinion matter either, but it does lend you some deal of credibility rather than someone who just chimes in to complain once a quarter.

rubberduck007
Jan 10, 2007, 08:18 AM
I hear the European release will be a 3G device.... we don't like being drawn back to the dark ages!!! Thus the delay til Q4!!!!

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 08:22 AM
A post count of nine, for a two year member indicates a lack of desire to give feedback, and I'm hardly and elitist, having a high post count doesn't make your opinion matter either, but it does lend you some deal of credibility rather than someone who just chimes in to complain once a quarter.

Have you looked through their posts - is that all they do, complain? If so OK, but if not your just spouting crap, then you have an elist attitude.

There is nothing wrong with making the occassional intelligent / insightful post.

mdntcallr
Jan 10, 2007, 08:25 AM
David Pogues observations:

- Can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly.
- "Web speed was OK—not great, but OK."
- "Apple went through numerous iterations of the glass surface, trying to find one that’s not too slick or too rough, or that shows grease and fingerprints too much. "
- "It feels amazing in your hand"

According to Engadget the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/"]Engadget[/url], the iPhone is not open to 3rd party development at this time. Only Apple is providing (built-in) applications for the device.[/QUOTE]

I have these responses to what is going on:

1- Web Speed- No wonder web speed wasnt fast. EDGE on Cingular is kinda slow. Jeers to Apple for not including Cingular's faster brand new network HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access) is way better. PEOPLE need to push apple to adopt this format!!!
2- Wireless sync. It would be great to have iPhone be able to do this.
3- Outside developers- Why not? wouldnt it be great to have Vindigo, Avantgo, Zagat and other programs that we love on treo or Windows mobile?
4- virtual keyboard? - Well, to be honest im not sure about this one. i would prefer a slideout keyboard somehow. not sure if a touchscreen is the way to go.
5- Exchangable Battery? -A cell phone without an exchangable battery would be horrible. I didnt notice this information on the apple website or anywhere else. power users need to be able to get this.

One thing I feel like is that this first model by Apple is a first Generation product. There are things that could use improvement to new standards before this even is shipped and that isn't a good sign. some of them could be software enabled. but the HSDPA part would great to get now in this model. why Apple wouldnt do it is crazy.

mdntcallr
Jan 10, 2007, 08:28 AM
when steve announced the iphone would reach europe by q4, is he talking about q4 of the calendar year of the fiscal year, i sure hope he was talking fiscal year (4th Quarter: July 1, 2007 – September 30, 2007).

also i am visiting usa in june, if i were to buy an iphone there how does it work, can i buy it unlocked or do you have contract only phones in the usa?

The Euro is strong, it would be nice for you to be able to get an unlocked phone. usually the unlocked phones go for $200 more than listed price, ie without a contract with Cingular.

guzhogi
Jan 10, 2007, 08:29 AM
I was wondering about the iSynch capability. I don't see how this can be left out of a final version. I would think the address book contacts synching would be something that was needed to be a part of the seamless mac experience.

It'll probably be done through iTunes. Don't forget that you can put your Address Book contacts on your iPod through iTunes

As for how long it'll take, Steve explicitly said that the FCC "takes a FEW months", not 2. I'll admit, I might have misheard him, but I'm sure he said few and not 2 months. Plus, he said he wanted Apple to announce it, not the FCC so this might have been the latest event they could announce it before the FCC OKs it. I don't know.

SiliconAddict
Jan 10, 2007, 08:32 AM
Cingular....Ick. Just ick. Deal killer is 3rd party support. Until that happens no go. The iPod features do no impress since I have 55GB of songs. Unless Apple has found some crazy new compression scheme I don't think that will fit in 8GB or even 4GB of storage. The only reason this device interests me is in its smart functions and without 3rd party support that is limited. Also Apple has a history of giving new software functionality to only their newer models even though older model iPods are capable of having X or Y feature. Without 3rd party support, I'll pass.

Paladin
Jan 10, 2007, 08:33 AM
My contract with Verizon runs out around the time of MWSF '08. By that time, a 3G version should definitely be announced or possibly released. Also on the GPS front, Garmin announced last year that they'd be making all of their products Mac-compatible. I think we can expect to see Garmin's best-in-class software built for this device in the future. I'm confident that they're already working on an OS X version for their USB receiver, so porting it to the iPhone shouldn't be too difficult. Oh, and Bluetooth GPS receivers are very common. Here's to next January when I'm out of contract, and I've saved up to buy this thing.

daysleeper
Jan 10, 2007, 08:34 AM
It does look like typing is a bit of a task.



It looked to me like Steve was absolutely flying on that keyboard. He mentioned that the keypad is 'smart' and error-defeating... if Apple has managed to do something new here, then maybe typing won't be too bad after a learning period.

balamw
Jan 10, 2007, 08:36 AM
I second that non-serious comment. -notice that when a new keynote slide came up that was of interest, lost of audience members with their camera phones started to light up? I thought that was funny.

I'm glad someone figured out I was being facetious. While at the same time thanking the folks who gave use such detailed live coverage of the event.

B

4np
Jan 10, 2007, 08:36 AM
Sounds to me like you sync your entire library.

nope, just 1% of it ;)

failsafe1
Jan 10, 2007, 08:39 AM
It'll probably be done through iTunes. Don't forget that you can put your Address Book contacts on your iPod through iTunes

As for how long it'll take, Steve explicitly said that the FCC "takes a FEW months", not 2. I'll admit, I might have misheard him, but I'm sure he said few and not 2 months. Plus, he said he wanted Apple to announce it, not the FCC so this might have been the latest event they could announce it before the FCC OKs it. I don't know.

Excellent point I forget you can put your contact info on via iTunes. Cool.

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 08:42 AM
deleted.

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2007, 08:45 AM
I was wondering who was going to notice that you can not change the battery. I think this is going to be a big issue. Every cell phone I have owned I had to replace the battery after about a yr of use. I am not sure why but they loss storage capacity so fast. Maybe Apple solved this problem, I would hope.

Next, I can not believe everyone is missing the point with this product, complaint about price and features and it should do this and that and it will be obsolete before it ships.

First, Jobs said it, all the other phones out there require you to update hardware to get the next feature set. Apple phone is based on software, so you will get new feature with the next software update. Guess what you will have to pay for those feature updates so start complaining about that.

Second, this is the first product, not unlike the G1 ipods, they were high end and pricy with little feature, apple sold a few compare to now. They learned with time and we all told them what it should be like, today we have 3 versions at different price points. It would not surprise me if you do not see smaller less featured version with in 18 months.

Third, all the complaints about service providers, face it you can not get away from them and the technology they deployed. You have to deal with what you got, and Cingular and probably T-mobile are the easiest of the providers to deal with when it comes to new technologies. I doublt you will see a CDMA versions and that is for a number of technically reason, (the reason it took two years for the RAZR to come out as CDMA) Plus, Verizon is a control freak and wants you to pay for each and every feature you get. They do not want you to listen to music unless you paid them for it. They do not want you to do google maps and direction unless you pay them for the service.

Again, Jobs said it will support WiMAX which is better then 3G which everyone is saying is better then EDGE. It is known that Cingular (now AT&T again) is rolling out WiMAX and Sprint is also looking at rolling out WiMAX. This technology you get higher data rates which is not offer today.


Lastly, this product is not for every cell phone user out there, it is going after a very targeted market and those people will pay and Apple will learn from it. They will be happy to sell 1 million, if they do that it $500 million to the top line. I can see this product being refined over the next 3 yrs. So you decide be an early adopter and deal with it and help Apple learn or, wait and get the Gen 3 or 4 product which will be better.

CountZero
Jan 10, 2007, 08:50 AM
I was wondering who was going to notice that you can not change the battery. I think this is going to be a big issue. Every cell phone I have owned I had to replace the battery after about a yr of use. I am not sure why but they loss storage capacity so fast. Maybe Apple solved this problem, I would hope.
I don't think not being able to swap battery is as big a deal as most cell phone users make it out to be. Just think, how many iPod users you know around in the office/Starbucks/wherever just now? A few? And how many of them have with them the sync/charge cable? I bet a few too. Because of the dock connector, you can charge your iPhone as long as you get a charger/computer and the cable!

emotion
Jan 10, 2007, 08:51 AM
when steve announced the iphone would reach europe by q4, is he talking about q4 of the calendar year of the fiscal year, i sure hope he was talking fiscal year (4th Quarter: July 1, 2007 – September 30, 2007).



I'm pretty sure the Quarters he refers to are not fiscal. Q4 starts in October. Intel work this way too.

Edit: In fact Steve says q4 calendar year in the keynote.

sishaw
Jan 10, 2007, 08:52 AM
I was wondering who was going to notice that you can not change the battery. I think this is going to be a big issue. Every cell phone I have owned I had to replace the battery after about a yr of use. I am not sure why but they loss storage capacity so fast. Maybe Apple solved this problem, I would hope.


Where did you hear that one cannot replace the battery? One can replace the battery on an iPod--either Apple or 3rd-party vendors will do it, or even send you a new battery to install yourself--so why wouldn't this device be similar?

There was a few years ago a complaint that iPods did not have replaceable batteries, and they're not the easiest to replace, but that complaint proved to be false (but it did spur Apple to introduce their battery replacement program).

mtrctyjoe
Jan 10, 2007, 08:53 AM
I hate to say this.... but we have a great product here, that will be a flop. Can you say "Newton"... ahead of its time - but died a slow death.

If this was proced at $299 & $399 there "might" be a chance.

RichP
Jan 10, 2007, 08:55 AM
Some of the idiocy on here amazes me.

We know LITTLE about this phone. Lets not assume its going to be some crippled brick. I am certain there will be 3rd party apps, IN TIME. Its not even going to be released for half a year, after FCC appoval. Lets not get in a panic that this is going to be the downfall of apple.

Like some have mentioned, the processing power in this thing is incredible. I have a samsung blackjack, and it is INCREDIBLY slow. Even with "3G" which is nonsense.

Syncing, in a dock, is so obvious, and yet brilliant. You need to charge the thing, you need to sync the thing. You dont need a wall wart charger in your kitchen that plugs into the side of the phone and looks like a mess.

And the battery is replaceable' look at pics of the back of the phone, it has a removeable door on the back, for SIM and Battery.

Everyone just relax. ;)

sishaw
Jan 10, 2007, 08:55 AM
I hate to say this.... but we have a great product here, that will be a flop. Can you say "Newton"... ahead of its time - but died a slow death.

If this was proced at $299 & $399 there "might" be a chance.

This post is just going to be funny in a couple of years.

Xyl
Jan 10, 2007, 09:00 AM
Next, I can not believe everyone is missing the point with this product, complaint about price and features and it should do this and that and it will be obsolete before it ships. [...]

Second, this is the first product, not unlike the G1 ipods, they were high end and pricy with little feature, apple sold a few compare to now. They learned with time and we all told them what it should be like, today we have 3 versions at different price points. It would not surprise me if you do not see smaller less featured version with in 18 months.

I too, don't know why everyone is complaining about this first-gen product. This first-gen phone from Apple is so many times better than the first-gen iPod, and even that many times better than the first-gen Zune. :p

This first-gen phone from Apple is definitely a competitive (note that I did not say better, because it's difficult to tell at the moment) product in the mobile phone market. Apple should be given credit for just that. I mean, look at the Zune, it went into an MP3 player market without being competitive, and it seems less people complain about that than this phone :rolleyes:.

mi5moav
Jan 10, 2007, 09:04 AM
iPhone CAN be synced wirelessly using iSync/Bluetooth for
Address Book, Address Book Pictures, Calendars, To Do Items, etc...

uNext
Jan 10, 2007, 09:07 AM
Apple officially divorced professionals and married consumers.

The newton when released appealed to professional mac users
how many pro users can really say this phone is everything they need?

Dont get me wrong the phone is awesome but i think apple gets loose with the whole "reinvented the phone" phrase.

I love my palm treo 680 so off to the iphone with full os x capability waiting line.

starflyer
Jan 10, 2007, 09:08 AM
Yeah the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will definetly be used. Think iTunes shared libraries. Think IT departments being able to service a computer remotely while being on the phone with one device in hand. etc. etc.

I too don't understand limiting it to a phone by name. But the initial market is such so be it. Apple marketing will have to work a little harder to get the message across that it is more than just a "smartphone".
Price...well who here paid $249 for an 8GB nano? Is it really hard to justify $349 more for phone, video, internet, and a bigger display, not really. And there is much more to it than that.

p.s. how many more accidents is this thing going to cause?

I really dont see price being a huge factor (to some maybe). Realize that it cost $500 for a 10Gb iPod a few years ago.

mi5moav
Jan 10, 2007, 09:08 AM
Newton was only ahead of it's time because we didn't have the Tech toy craze that we have now, people are much more comfortable with technology. Heck look at the RAZR that thing was the strangest fattest phone I ever saw but I paid $449 bucks for that when it came out and I bought the next version for $399 when that came out. I just spent $899 on an O2 phone which looks like the iphones ugly sister and that doesn't have 3G either in it.

Digital Fury
Jan 10, 2007, 09:09 AM
Again, Jobs said it will support WiMAX which is better then 3G which everyone is saying is better then EDGE. It is known that Cingular (now AT&T again) is rolling out WiMAX and Sprint is also looking at rolling out WiMAX. This technology you get higher data rates which is not offer today.True but it will take years for WiMax (which is still in its infancy) to have the same kind of coverage (US or otherwise) that 3G networks have outside the US.

The iPhone right now is mostly a US-specific product targeting US consumers. Apple better upgrade it with 3G before trying to sell it in Europe and Asia.

For my $600 I rather have a Nokia N95, which not only will be available much sooner than the iPhone, but also has 3G, a built-in GPS and mapping software, a card slot, a removable battery and that allows applications to be installed on it.

nostaws
Jan 10, 2007, 09:13 AM
I think the iPhone has the potential to be a gaming machine depending on the internals. It could be powerful against the psp, or ds.

Also, I know most will think this is lame, but I wouldn't mind a palm emulator for the iphone. Palm apps would look like crap, but I have several apps that I would really like to take with me forever.

My one dissappointment is the price.

alec
Jan 10, 2007, 09:16 AM
4 & 8 GB? That's like Life Aquatic, a couple of episodes of the Office, and ~ 5% of my music collection. Bleh. I guess an affordable, all in one solution is implausible.

mi5moav
Jan 10, 2007, 09:17 AM
What I need my smart phone to do and what iPhone offers

IMAP/POP Yes
Push email Yes
Stock Quotes Yes
WAP or better Browser Yes
Calendar To-Do list Yes
Read PDF Yes
Instant Message/SMS Yes
World Phone Yes
SpeakerPhone Yes
MP3 capability Yes
Bluetooth Yes
iSync Compatible Yes

Plus I get WIFI which is awesome since I have wifi at home and work and don't have to use stinking Cingulars slow 3G network, plus I can go to any starbucks or airport and connect. Wifi is 10x more important then 3G

starflyer
Jan 10, 2007, 09:19 AM
The big thing to remember is that this phone will last longer than most other phones. Like Jobs said, If they want to add features just update the OS. This is more like a computer than a phone.

emotion
Jan 10, 2007, 09:21 AM
The big thing to remember is that this phone will last longer than most other phones. Like Jobs said, If they want to add features just update the OS. This is more like a computer than a phone.

Hmm, software isn't going to change the resolution of the camera, add more storage or add 3G or GPS.

guzhogi
Jan 10, 2007, 09:24 AM
I know Steve said you don't need a stylus, but I wonder if you could use one anyways? I don't know if anyone will want to use one, but it'll be nice if it's available to those that do.

StuPidQPid
Jan 10, 2007, 09:27 AM
I wonder if they could implement some sort of magnification of the type keys, something like the Dock?
Like you move your finger across the keyboard, the letters get bigger, then you tap the screen to get the letter. I know I'm all fingers and thumbs on a Blackberry sized keyboard (and my eyesight's not getting any better with age...), and this would help me find and see the keys.
Of course the iPhone, being software based, would be ideal for this.

Digital Fury
Jan 10, 2007, 09:33 AM
Plus I get WIFI which is awesome since I have wifi at home and work and don't have to use stinking Cingulars slow 3G network, plus I can go to any starbucks or airport and connect. Wifi is 10x more important then 3GAs most people already have access to the Internet both at work and home, the high-speed aspect of 3G is important for those who, between work and home aren't at Starbucks or an airport all the time and that don't have an opened Wi-Fi network nearby and/or don't want to pay for spot Wi-Fi access.

The poor quality of 3G offerings in the US is a US-specific problem. In Europe 3G coverage in quite excellent and you can get unlimited bandwidth access at a reasonable cost. I have been using Google Maps (along with TomTom and a Bluetooth GPS) and Gmail for Symbian 3rd edition for a while and 3G data rates helps a lot.

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2007, 09:42 AM
Where did you hear that one cannot replace the battery? One can replace the battery on an iPod--either Apple or 3rd-party vendors will do it, or even send you a new battery to install yourself--so why wouldn't this device be similar?

There was a few years ago a complaint that iPods did not have replaceable batteries, and they're not the easiest to replace, but that complaint proved to be false (but it did spur Apple to introduce their battery replacement program).

Notice I used the word "YOU" meaning you and I not Apple to replace the battery.

The other reason to have "user" replaceable batteries on a Cell phone is because it become business critial unlike an ipod. I do not do this buy I work with people who do and who use their cell phone all the time which have 1 or 2 extra batteries on a charger/dock to swap into the phone when the phone they are using dies after talking on the phone for hours during the day.

Like I said, this is a Gen 1 product and will get better.

Zzzoom
Jan 10, 2007, 09:46 AM
I think the phone is absolutely gorgeous. If the phone handles half as well as Steve wants us to believe it might even be the next big thing. Even the price of the phone itself seems to be reasonable, given the technology behind it. However, the dealbreaker could still be the 2 year contract that comes with the phone. First, the monthly fee migth be prohibitive. Second, as others have already pointed out, 2 years are a mighty long time (especially for gadget geeks).

dinojedi
Jan 10, 2007, 09:47 AM
To see the tecnology behind iPhone go to Google and type:

multi touch screen video

there are some videos on YouTube that show this technology on a 23 inch screen. Maybe in a short future we will see the MacBook no-tablet because has not stylo! Now I discovered who buy that technlogy!
:D

mi5moav
Jan 10, 2007, 09:49 AM
Keys do magnify when you hover over them just like in the dock.

b3beater
Jan 10, 2007, 09:52 AM
Sorry if this has already been address but Apple seems to be smart enough not to leave the iphone as simply driven by 1st party software.

Being that it is OS-X and developers will have no problems learing new code to write apps for it they more than likely kept the third party developers out of the loop so no one leaked information about the phone.

It's running on OS-X for god's sake. Do you have any idea how many third party apps could be designed between now and June...? hell, how many apps could be designed between May and June....?

slffl
Jan 10, 2007, 09:58 AM
C'mon, do you really think Cingular is doing this for the fun of it? The free wallpapers and ringtones you'll have now with the iPhone will be replaced by Widgets, Music, and SMS messages you'll be paying for.

dAlen
Jan 10, 2007, 09:58 AM
You seem to be forgetting the Wii :)

The problem with the Wii is its doesnt compete as a home entertainment center. (i.e. HD movies with blue ray or HDDVD, or connecting to the internet, or playing music on your t.v., etc.)

the wii is only for games, thus the price and the lower graphics quality.

Peace

dAlen

Rustus Maximus
Jan 10, 2007, 10:00 AM
The big thing to remember is that this phone will last longer than most other phones. Like Jobs said, If they want to add features just update the OS. This is more like a computer than a phone.

Hmm, software isn't going to change the resolution of the camera, add more storage or add 3G or GPS.

Software doesn't change those hardware aspects on your Mac either. I think Starflyer was referring more to the ease of upgrading the phone's UI and OS. Which given the nature of Apple's approach here is going to be considerably easier than any cell presently on the market or in the near future.

I think many are also overlooking something else here. Look beyond the phone itself...beyond the product. Look at the UI. Maybe I am making too much of it but Multi-Touch is the real story here. The way we interact with a device is about to be changed again and once again it is Apple leading that revolution. Add voice interaction with the computer to this mix and goodbye keyboard and mouse. The next phase of computing is about to begin, this phone is just a peek of things to come. As Steve said, there are some incredible Mac products coming in the next few months. MAC...pro stuff...they have not forgotten who they are they've just added a missing piece of their puzzle for technological domination :D.

sososowhat
Jan 10, 2007, 10:03 AM
Ugh, isn't it obvious? We're not talking about a phone here, and it's not dead on arrival - this is a tablet PC.

The bloody thing plays HD movies! Did you see how fast cover flow was? Can you say multi-tasking?

You all realise that the processor in this thing is going to be 800Mhz+ right? And it's got to have at least 256mb of ram.


It'd be funny if it got as hot as a MacBook :) Too hot for a lap is definitely too hot for a pocket!

Torajima
Jan 10, 2007, 10:06 AM
IMO, you can't be a smartphone without the ability to install new apps.

This thing just become a lot dumber than a Palm or WINce based phone. As a full fledged pda/smartphone hybrid, the iPhone was definately worth the price of admission. Now, no freaking way...

sishaw
Jan 10, 2007, 10:06 AM
Notice I used the word "YOU" meaning you and I not Apple to replace the battery.

The other reason to have "user" replaceable batteries on a Cell phone is because it become business critial unlike an ipod. I do not do this buy I work with people who do and who use their cell phone all the time which have 1 or 2 extra batteries on a charger/dock to swap into the phone when the phone they are using dies after talking on the phone for hours during the day.

Like I said, this is a Gen 1 product and will get better.

I agree that it will get better and probably have more varied offerings (an 80 gig hard drive version? A Skype phone version? Who knows) in the future. But I'm still not convinced that the back cover doesn't pop off to reveal the battery and SIM card, just like on any other phone. I note that the back has two colors--metallic and a band of black at the bottom. Might not that be where the cover comes off?

The point is, we don't know. Battery details weren't covered in the keynote and are not listed in the tech specs. Let's not assume things.

MonkeyClaw
Jan 10, 2007, 10:13 AM
Software doesn't change those hardware aspects on your Mac either. I think Starflyer was referring more to the ease of upgrading the phone's UI and OS. Which given the nature of Apple's approach here is going to be considerably easier than any cell presently on the market or in the near future.

I think many are also overlooking something else here. Look beyond the phone itself...beyond the product. Look at the UI. Maybe I am making too much of it but Multi-Touch is the real story here. The way we interact with a device is about to be changed again and once again it is Apple leading that revolution. Add voice interaction with the computer to this mix and goodbye keyboard and mouse. The next phase of computing is about to begin, this phone is just a peek of things to come. As Steve said, there are some incredible Mac products coming in the next few months. MAC...pro stuff...they have not forgotten who they are they've just added a missing piece of their puzzle for technological domination :D.

Thank you. The iPhone is a revolutionary piece of technology, just look at Apple stock. But the big story yesterday, is multi-touch. This technology will, WILL change the way we use the computer. I can see myself using this stuff on a future tablet Mac with a special version of Aperture and Photoshop.

I can use Aperture with my hands to reshape the photos, crop, redeye, etc etc etc, then go to Photoshop with an actual pen and use it as if it was a piece of paper. Yes you can do this already with Waccom tablets, I know, I use them every day. But to be able to hold the computer, write on it with varying degrees of angle and pressure, then being able to take your hands and shape and manipulate whats on the scree, its just amazing to think of the possibilities.

People complain, ooohhh the MACworld keynote wasn't even about Mac's, whine whine whine. If people would open their eyes and their minds and, for lack of better words, think different, they would see that this keynote offered greatly focused on the Mac, specifically its future, and quite possibly, the future of data manipulation.

The iPhone is awesome. Expensive, yes. Uses Cingular, I know I just threw up in my mouth. 3G, well Steve said its on its way and if you read the article by David Pogue, Steve and Paul said that some stuff isn't even finished yet. 6 months is a lot of time to change things and from what it sounds like, a lot will.

But in the end, the iPhone aside, the interface we saw, IS the future and I can't believe more people can't see this.

Digital Fury
Jan 10, 2007, 10:14 AM
Sorry if this has already been address but Apple seems to be smart enough not to leave the iphone as simply driven by 1st party software.It would be nice but that's not Apple's game plan.

Then again this is only a 1st generation device, maybe the v2 of the iPhone will feature some upgrades.

- 3G support
- Removable battery (to allow quick swaps if you can't recharge)
- User installable 3rd party applications
- Removable slot for additional media
- Integrated GPS
- High res camera

A slick interface is nice, but you also need applications and the hardware to support your requirements.

If Nokia could fit a N95 in a 770 tablet form with a tactile screen and upgrade the Symbian interface with something slicker, IMO it would make *my* perfect phone.

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2007, 10:16 AM
I agree that it will get better and probably have more varied offerings (an 80 gig hard drive version? A Skype phone version? Who knows) in the future. But I'm still not convinced that the back cover doesn't pop off to reveal the battery and SIM card, just like on any other phone. I note that the back has two colors--metallic and a band of black at the bottom. Might not that be where the cover comes off?

The point is, we don't know. Battery details weren't covered in the keynote and are not listed in the tech specs. Let's not assume things.

I would agree I might have jump to a conclusion on the battery, but form the pictures it looks too tightly integrated to be easily removed. I'll wait an see.

I doublt you will ever see a HDD in a cell phone, again this is for a number of technicial reason such as shock. Cell phone tend to get dropped more often than another hand held product, just the nature how it is used. Plus flash prices are continue to drive down.

Right now I see 2 or 3 variants of the current offering showing up in the next 2 yrs. one being slimmer and and music only since the asia markets does not like the wider phones.

Case and Point (http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2375)

gotohamish
Jan 10, 2007, 10:16 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Time.com (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1575743,00.html) was given some information about the development of the Apple iPhone. Of particular interest, especially to those who follow Apple rumors, is a tidbit about how the iPhone interface came to be. According to the author, "a few years ago" Steve Jobs noticed all the research money spent into Tablet PCs and had a team of Apple engineers working on a tablet interface with touch screen.



And so, the iPhone was born. What is interesting is that around this time, rumors of an Apple tablet had reemerged. Whispers of an Apple Tablet project began to resurface in late 2002 and peaked prior to Macworld SF 2003 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030221004455.shtml). No tablet came, but the description was an 8-inch multimedia device running Mac OS X. It appears that these rumors were likely true and based on this project.

This author as well as David Pogue (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time-with-the-iphone/) had some one-on-one time with the device, and provides these additional details and observations:

- Can't download songs directly from iTunes Store
- Can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly.
- "Web speed was OK—not great, but OK."
- "Apple went through numerous iterations of the glass surface, trying to find one that’s not too slick or too rough, or that shows grease and fingerprints too much. "
- "It feels amazing in your hand"

According to Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/), the iPhone is not open to 3rd party development at this time. Only Apple is providing (built-in) applications for the device.

Most small handheld devices seem "difficult" to type on at first. But you adapt and get used to it. Look at the Blackberry's SureType—a nightmare at first but then a must-have once you trusted it.

sishaw
Jan 10, 2007, 10:19 AM
Maybe I am making too much of it but Multi-Touch is the real story here. The way we interact with a device is about to be changed again and once again it is Apple leading that revolution. Add voice interaction with the computer to this mix and goodbye keyboard and mouse. The next phase of computing is about to begin, this phone is just a peek of things to come. As Steve said, there are some incredible Mac products coming in the next few months. MAC...pro stuff...they have not forgotten who they are they've just added a missing piece of their puzzle for technological domination :D.

You are not making too much of multi-touch. On this very site is a thread somewhere about the patent drawings that came out a while back, and people were very excited then. Multi-touch has the potential to make tablets more than just a niche product, which would be a great next step in personal computing. Not only that, but you could use this technology in all kinds of embedded devices. The only limit is the imagination.

dr_lha
Jan 10, 2007, 10:20 AM
Anyone have any idea if they will even sell this thing without a contract or with a 1 year contract?
Cingular only do 2 year contracts now.

bastards...

ChrisA
Jan 10, 2007, 10:27 AM
Anyone else feel no wireless syncing is a letdown?

Wireless syncing would be useful only if there was also wireless re-charging. If you have to plug it in to charge, not having to plug it to sync doesn't get you much.

Krevnik
Jan 10, 2007, 10:30 AM
It only has EDGE which would be a reason for slower speeds.

I should note that even over WiFi, the browser isn't gonna be terribly fast. This thing is running 'desktop-class' apps which means desktop-class requirements, on a mobile-class device. I would not expect WebKit to render that quickly on a 400-500Mhz device with a low RAM ceiling. Pocket IE on Windows Mobile doesn't do that well on the HTC Universal either.

Stella
Jan 10, 2007, 10:32 AM
For now.

Your needs will grow and iPhone won't be able to meet your expectations because Apple disallow 3rd party software. Unlike traditional smartphones.

Wifi is more important to *you* :-) because you live in the states were the infrastructure isn't mature as Europe and elsewhere.

What I need my smart phone to do and what iPhone offers

IMAP/POP Yes
Push email Yes
Stock Quotes Yes
WAP or better Browser Yes
Calendar To-Do list Yes
Read PDF Yes
Instant Message/SMS Yes
World Phone Yes
SpeakerPhone Yes
MP3 capability Yes
Bluetooth Yes
iSync Compatible Yes

Plus I get WIFI which is awesome since I have wifi at home and work and don't have to use stinking Cingulars slow 3G network, plus I can go to any starbucks or airport and connect. Wifi is 10x more important then 3G\


hate to tell you this, but its already been done. HDD have been put into cell phones!!
http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/10/17/HNsamsungcellphone_1.html

The first being Samsung SPH-V5400.


I doublt you will ever see a HDD in a cell phone, again this is for a number of technicial reason such as shock. Cell phone tend to get dropped more often than another hand held product, just the nature how it is used. Plus flash prices are continue to drive down.

Digital Fury
Jan 10, 2007, 10:32 AM
I doublt you will ever see a HDD in a cell phone, again this is for a number of technicial reason such as shock. Cell phone tend to get dropped more often than another hand held product, just the nature how it is used. Plus flash prices are continue to drive down.The Nokia N91 has one and has been engineered to handle the risk you describe - it works just fine.

Hard drives do hit the battery harder than solid-state storage and as you mentioned the prices have come down and their capacity have increased.

mtrctyjoe
Jan 10, 2007, 10:37 AM
What it is:

1. An expensive phone with not enough memory to replace an existing ipod+phone stand alone - cool screen and touchy interface - (which better be easy to text on!!)

What it is not:
1. A viable alternative for the masses (in it present form - value is not there).
2. A replacement for a Lap Top (which it should be at these prices!!)

What it will be:

Here is the cool part - I hope anyway. This is indeed the 1 st gen of the future folks. When in its present form the price drops - and the next gen turns into the tablet we have all dreamed about - slightly larger display / laptop replacement - Apple will rule the world.

wizzerandchips
Jan 10, 2007, 10:37 AM
I think Apple need to up the specs before release.

Lack of 3G (and HSDPA for data) seems like a problem even now. The tie in with that Cingular contract is 2 years. Imagine how dated a lot of those features are going to feel even a year into that contract.

A expected the interface etc seems to be nice and I bet it's a lovely thing to hold but as it stands I have major reservations about the whole thing and I'd say I'm pretty much bang on the target audience for this.


By the time this lands in the UK (October maybe), just a 12 month tie in will give you a HSDPA phone with all those specs for free. In fact that's almost possible now. Granted it's not an Apple etc etc but not everyone thinks like us nerds on here.

I have just purchased an O2 Xda orbit, after waiting so long for the iphone. I think the I phone is great but, my orbit does the same as the iphone, and has sat nav included on a 18month contract for Ł50. I love it, I also love the iphone, but in 18 months time when iphone is on its 2nd or 3rd generation. I am sure it will have all that my orbit does and more, Cant wait.:D

kotovasii
Jan 10, 2007, 10:37 AM
Translation please? (on everything but the OS X option...)

You are 1/2-God ...surely you should be able to work it out! :-) :p :D

iSee
Jan 10, 2007, 10:40 AM
- Can't download songs directly from iTunes Store
- Can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly.
- "Web speed was OK—not great, but OK."
These things are ok. Direct iTunes connection is just a matter of time, Syncing wirelessly will come, too, not that it is a wonderful as it sounds since you need to charge the thing with a wire anyway. Web speed will improve as the underlying technologies and network do.

According to Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/), the iPhone is not open to 3rd party development at this time. Only Apple is providing (built-in) applications for the device.
THIS is the one that has me worried. Despite what Steve says, this thing *is* just another phone if the platform isn't open. As Job's pointed out, what made the Mac so revolutionary was the flexibility of its UI--the combo of the pixel screen with a pointing device. But if only Apple is allowed to put that UI to use, its flexibility will be shackled.

I mean, compare an iPhone to the iPod and cell phone I already have in my pocket. What can it really do?
* Saves me a little bit of pocket space--> 1 device instead of 2
* Bigger screen for viewing video and choosing songs.
* Easier to use UI.
* I can browse the internet and read/send e-mail away from my laptop/desktop.

These are evolutionary improvements: smaller, bigger, easier, doing the same things but in different places.

The revolutionary aspect of this product is most likely in the brain of some designer or developer no where near Cuppertino. The only way it is going to make it on to the iPhone is if Apple opens up development to 3rd parties.

Now, Apple will most likely have a successful product without 3rd party development because they aren't so shabby at developing apps, but it won't be a revolution.

Sandfleaz
Jan 10, 2007, 10:43 AM
Surely the final version will sync with your computer....surely

kbonnel
Jan 10, 2007, 10:43 AM
I think the phone is absolutely gorgeous. If the phone handles half as well as Steve wants us to believe it might even be the next big thing. Even the price of the phone itself seems to be reasonable, given the technology behind it. However, the dealbreaker could still be the 2 year contract that comes with the phone. First, the monthly fee migth be prohibitive. Second, as others have already pointed out, 2 years are a mighty long time (especially for gadget geeks).

I agree, but it is becoming very common to have 1 - 2 year contracts with cell phone companies, which is what it is. I personally do not have a problem with it, unless the phone is locked to only that provider. I travel the world, and am provided SIM cards for different areas I visit. If I don't have the ability to just plug them into my phone, then I am stuck. I do hope that the iPhone will not be locked. I have a hard time justifying to myself spending $600 for a phone that is limited to a single provider. It is like leasing a phone. Not a problem if you don't need to use different SIMs, or if that provider is the best/only one around. If not, then I guess I will wait to see what kind of iPhone is released in Europe/Asia.

Kimo

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2007, 10:47 AM
The Nokia N91 has one and has been engineered to handle the risk you describe - it works just fine.

Hard drives do hit the battery harder than solid-state storage and as you mentioned the prices have come down and their capacity have increased.

I meant to say 'see it in an Iphone," since I knew about the Nokia as well as a samsung phone which have a HDD. This is a niche product and shock risk it still there. Even Apple will tell you that the HDD ipod have a higher failure rate then the solidstate ones. I know this since I deal with the all the HDD manufactures. They are unclear whether the 1"+ drives will continue to have a life.

weslobombs
Jan 10, 2007, 10:47 AM
maybe its hard to type because DAVID POGUES FAT ASS LITTLE PIGGY FINGERS CAN"T HIT THE BUTTONS!?

reminds me of the simpsons "Your fingers are too fat to dial, please hang up now." "D'OH!"

i dont see why people are ALREADY criticizing the iPhone, which is still unreleased. lets let the people decide in june.

christ

mnb
Jan 10, 2007, 10:48 AM
I'm really excited about the iPhone, but there are a few issues that I think may need to be addressed with it...

- It doesn't look like it has a user changeable battery. I will never buy a phone that I can't have a spare battery for.

- How can you protect the front panel yet still be able to operate it?

- Most phones can be operated and held using one hand. This doesn't look too viable with iPhone.


Direct iTunes connection would be nice, but with only 8gb, it's pretty clear that you will want your 'master' to be your Mac (or PC).

I seem to recall a mention in the demo of syncing the phone. You can sync most phones via bluetooth now. If it doesn't work NOW on the iPhone, I'm sure it will by JUNE.

You're not going to see incredible web speeds on a cell phone. The cell networks aren't fast enough. And they aren't very efficient at utilizing their bandwidth.

SPUY767
Jan 10, 2007, 10:50 AM
hate to tell you this, but its already been done. HDD have been put into cell phones!!
http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/10/17/HNsamsungcellphone_1.html

The first being Samsung SPH-V5400.

Just what I want in a phone is a hard drive spinning, eating the battery. HD's are bad ideas for devices that cannot dedicate the greater part of their weight to a battery, or have to power more than just a hard drive and a music decoder. A HD Based iPod has good battery luife because it doesn't do too complicated of things. A Phone has to have power to the cellular circuitry always on, has to power a processor to run the OS, has ti have wireless interfaces powered up, adding a hard drive to that mix would do nothing more than shorten battery life.

- Most phones can be operated and held using one hand. This doesn't look too viable with iPhone.

Why not, you palm it and press buttons with your thumb, am I missing some crucial opposable thumb gauche? You operate an iPod with one hand, I mean, unless you have prohibitively small hands, it shouldn't be a problem.

OdduWon
Jan 10, 2007, 10:50 AM
Seems like it is built for the boys on entourage :rolleyes: , not "real" people :(

bbydon
Jan 10, 2007, 11:00 AM
So that black thing at the bottom and back of the iphone, is that the battery, or antenna. Does anyone know if the battery can be removed?

Rocketman
Jan 10, 2007, 11:03 AM
I think they could always enable wireless synching later on -- maybe just for phone/contacts/calendar. 8GB of music over Bluetooth would take forever!!

Difficult to type doesn't sound promising. I suppose I could say the same of my Treo.

I thought it also has built-in 802.11g.

Rocketman

carlgo
Jan 10, 2007, 11:05 AM
Just wait until some future model incorportates a mini projector. That technology is happening now and will likely lead to some interesting things.

They are being sly when they talk about being happy getting 1% of the market.

I do wish it was cheaper because I will have to buy two, one for me and one for the wife. Double expensive is real expensive.

Being so expensive means I would likely wait until at least the 2nd revision comes out. This is a tool, it costs more than any of my power tools, and it has to be right for me the first time.

SeanMcg
Jan 10, 2007, 11:06 AM
One of the disadvantages of being tech people is that we sometimes expect waaaaaaaaay too much from these devices. I do tech support, and I have already heard from two non-tech people about the iPhone. They absolutely love it and can't wait to get one. These are the people that are being targeted.

I have to say that I can't believe that the iPhone will not be open to developers. I agree with the post that says it is waiting for FCC approval. As tech people we can either a) write our own apps or b) request that someone else do it. Just don't expect it to be free.

On the GPS issue - how is it identfying where you are in the Google maps widget? If it is simply using triangulation based on the cell towers, then how is that operationally different from GPS? Besides, I thought most phones made today had GPS in them for emergency purposes anyway. Maybe I am wrong.

On the lack of wireless syncing - I'm sure that the same people want wireless syncing for their iPods as well. I say invent it, then, and watch it not sell becaue the data transfer is too slow. If you look at the iPhone page, after the overview, the primary function they promote is...iPod. I know Steve referred to calling as the killer app, but that hasn't changed the fact that they are emphasizing its iPod heritage first and foremost. As such it will behave as iPods do and need to do because a wired dock is much faster.

Consider this: the iPod ecosystem is out there waiting to be exploited. The iPhone has a dock connector. Does this mean I'll be able to hook it up to my car and hear the call through the speakers? Will it be able to output video through that dock connector? These are more interesting, TO ME, than some other complaints, but I won't condemn the product based on incomplete information.

kjs862
Jan 10, 2007, 11:07 AM
To all those complaining about the iPhone please be aware that Steve said that an advantage of not having a digital keyboard was that they are able to make changes to the UI down the road via software update. If they can do this I'm certain they can give us other apps such as iChat and give us video conferencing. I think we should all keep in mind in addition to the fact the product will be out in 6 months. Too many whinny people :p

Rocketman
Jan 10, 2007, 11:11 AM
This kind of sums up my thoughts after reading David Pogues article:

- Stylus
Would have been nice to have a stylus.
With apples ink well character recognition system, it would have been cool for jotting down quick notes.

Also it would have been good to use for us artist (or non-artist) that like to doodle. (fun for the family) This is, after all, like a mini-computer...Stylus could have been hidden well with the design, and easily detachable.

Steve, good job on the iphone.

Again, nice concept, but nothing is infallible.

Peace

dAlen

I bet third parties are going to sell an accessory resembling a thimble for fat fingered folks to poke their iPhone with and also use third party apps which are more drawing oriented. Like Easydraw for iPhone or whatever.

Rocketman

MacPhilosopher
Jan 10, 2007, 11:13 AM
Wireless syncing would be useful only if there was also wireless re-charging. If you have to plug it in to charge, not having to plug it to sync doesn't get you much.

I use my charger once every two days. I sync as many as four times a day. I have not connected my Treo to my PBook with a wire in over a year. Bluetooth for everything but movies and music would be fine. The throughout will need to increase for big files.

killmoms
Jan 10, 2007, 11:20 AM
I love how everyone is taking this "no third party apps" thing as gospel truth.

ATTENTION ALL MACRUMORS DENIZENS! Who have we heard this "no third party" thing from? Engadget, whose source is "noted analyst Michael Gartenburg." Who the **** is that? Is he from Apple? How did he learn this? Did he talk to anyone at Apple, did he use ESP, or did he use his "analyst powers" (AKA made some **** up)?

We really have NO IDEA if this phone will allow for third party apps or not. Maybe you won't be able to install anything made by Joe Q. Public, maybe apps will be approved by Apple and sold on the iTunes Store. Maybe you WILL be able to roll your own. Maybe you won't, and it will be Apple software only. But until we hear from Apple themselves about this, I think it makes more sense to be cautiously optimistic instead of immediately deciding the sky is falling.

MacPhilosopher
Jan 10, 2007, 11:23 AM
On the GPS issue - how is it identfying where you are in the Google maps widget? If it is simply using triangulation based on the cell towers, then how is that operationally different from GPS? Besides, I thought most phones made today had GPS in them for emergency purposes anyway. Maybe I am wrong.

The emergency services i.e. phone locator in cell phones is based on cell technology, not GPS. GPS is satalite dependent, and this is no satalite phone. You are right about triangulation(or whatever method cell companies use), but I am not sure what the accuracy is of the triangulation. The Google map example used preset locations, so he was not being located by his phone id.

dual64bit
Jan 10, 2007, 11:27 AM
I would hope the phone is 3g as well, however Palm's newest Treo, the Treo 680 only through cingular is only operating on the EDGE network.

2.5G (EDGE) - Cheaper and eaiser to expand
3G - More expensive, but 5-15x faster than EDGE

Therefore, I'd expect Apple to make the iPhone operate on the 3G network before release, or expect an updated iPhone running on that network.

Rocketman
Jan 10, 2007, 11:28 AM
Ugh, isn't it obvious? We're not talking about a phone here, and it's not dead on arrival - this is a tablet PC.

The bloody thing plays HD movies! Did you see how fast cover flow was? Can you say multi-tasking?

You all realise that the processor in this thing is going to be 800Mhz+ right? And it's got to have at least 256mb of ram.

The Nokia N70 has 8mb of RAM...

This is a tablet PC, and that's why it's ~$1000 unlocked, $1999 locked inc. contract fees every month over 2 years.

If this is supposed to be a phone, it's literally the most expensive mainstream phone in history.

But it's not, it's a tablet PC, and I guess that's why Apple are charging (subsidised with contract) the same cost as a MacBook for it.

It might help some readers to view iPhone as this:

Apple Tablet Nano (with no compromises whatsoever)

This radical thing has some features some have disregarded:

- Full access to net storage via 802.11g (soon to be n)
- Future access to net storage and internet via 802.16 wimax
- Multi-tasking, HD resolution, multi-homing
- Full desktop app capacity with a low overhead OS (not quite full swiss army knife, but minimal compromises)

I do have some feature requests for Apple to consider:

- Have an option to record 24fps video at the full resolution of the 2mp image capture
- 802.11n as soon as available of course
- A battery dongle, perhaps Shuffle style :)
- Wimax as soon as installable, and let users decide if they have access locally. BTW tell Sprint to hurry up with wimax :)
- Have the dock make it easy to:
-- have an external monitor
-- have extended wireless range
-- have a few traditional ports

Good job Apple, and I do mean the entire set of engineering teams working on this for years.

Rocketman

cblackmore
Jan 10, 2007, 11:28 AM
I don't have small fingertips, and I recall my Treo actually being pretty easy to type with from day one.
It would seem that a reputable tech-columnist using the word "difficult" signals a major problem that must be fixed prior to June.
I trust Apple's design prowess, but the #1 thing all my friends asked first when I told them about the iPhone... "Wouldn't a touch-screen be too difficult to type with?"

I think they could always enable wireless synching later on -- maybe just for phone/contacts/calendar. 8GB of music over Bluetooth would take forever!!

Difficult to type doesn't sound promising. I suppose I could say the same of my Treo.

thirteen1031
Jan 10, 2007, 11:29 AM
Thank you. The iPhone is a revolutionary piece of technology, just look at Apple stock. But the big story yesterday, is multi-touch.
Dude! Thank *you!* You got it! I'm astonished at all the complaints I'm seeing. "It hasn't got this! It hasn't got that!" or "It can't do this! It can't do that! Why can't it do this/that???"

Did you guys miss the two most important aspects of this "phone"?

1) Multi-touch
2) Multi-touch

The first aspect of the "multi-touch" is that it allows Apple to add and change things. So, gosh, no it doesn't have games, or more widgets, or whatever else of that sort you want...but it COULD have that. In fact, the ideal of this phone is one of the best things that Apple Software offers--the ability to customize.

It's not there yet. But because it has no actual buttons, because it relies entirely on what you see on the screen, it can turn itself into almost anything YOU want. Add buttons, subtract buttons, change the way things are done. And you don't have to buy a new phone every time there's a change. And these changes can happen fast. Radically if need be. THIS is what is "revolutionary." Not what it has or doesn't have, but that it can be modified and changed and molded into what YOU want it to be.

The second aspect is exactly what MonkeyClaw pointed out. Did I miss something here? Are you all so deeply into the latest tech that you can just sit back and yawn and jadedly say, "Oh, yeah, multi-touch. Been there, seen that...."

:eek: My jaw dropped when I saw how scolling works on the iPhone! I'll admit I'm not on the inside of cutting edge tech or software, but I've NEVER seen anything like that. The pinching, the scrolling....it's going to change everything!

Apple has to do several things:
1) Keep the device at a good size and a good weight--not too heavy, not too cumbersome.
2) Put in all the tech that works the multi-touch technology (screen, sensors, etc.), along with all the tech for music, videos, internet...and, oh, yeah, the phone, too.
3) Make it "affordable"--that is, not so outrageously out of reach cost-wise that they can't get anyone to buy it, yet enough that it will pay for everything they've stuffed in it and make them a profit (there are stockholders to answer to, after all).
4) Have it do enough to satisfy most customers--that is, the usual needs of customers likely to use the phone.

In other words, I'm sorry, guys, but you can't have everything you want because everything would make it larger or weigh a ton or cost twice as much or be useless because most people don't need that sort of thing and it would just take up valuable space. I'm astonished by how much this thing already has and can do within a nice, reasonably-sized, and reasonably priced package. And if that doesn't satisfy you--go back to my first point: it can CHANGE. It allows for lots and lots of change. Other such devices don't.

You can even see the future that they're aiming for. And given the transformation of the iPod over six years, I can see exactly where this is going to go as well: price drop within the first year by $100, and I'll bet they double the battery life and Gig as well. Video conferencing--not far off. It's going to happen. As for the name, of course they have to call it iPhone. Call it something else and most folk won't know what it is or why they should buy it. When the price comes down, they'll buy it as a "phone" but the definition of what a phone is and what a phone can be has already changed. It's changing now. This is the future. It is what "phones" will be.

You're living in a future that others only dreamed about. Can't you be a little excited and happy about it?

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2007, 11:31 AM
To all those complaining about the iPhone please be aware that Steve said that an advantage of not having a digital keyboard was that they are able to make changes to the UI down the road via software update. If they can do this I'm certain they can give us other apps such as iChat and give us video conferencing. I think we should all keep in mind in addition to the fact the product will be out in 6 months. Too many whinny people :p


Exactly, but people get all caugth up and forget to step back a second and look around.

BTW, how would video conf work with the camera on the opposite side of the display. You will spend lots of time flipping the phone back and forth. Cameras in phones are a novelity item, they are cute to have when your friends makes a foul of themselve you can capture it and quickly send it off to your friends to humilate them for life. Having a camera phone is like hving those old 110 instamatic camera from kodak, point, shoot and get a crappy picture.

But then again most poeple will spend money on things that are less than quality.

jhedges3
Jan 10, 2007, 11:32 AM
Indeed, I thought .mac integration would be THE highlight.

It’s shocking to me that you would think .Mac integration would be THE highlight! Maybe I’m missing something, but, assuming it was possible, why would Apple make that of primary importance since only a very small proportion of their target market for the phone uses .Mac? It would seem to me that THE highlight is a consolidation of functionality of several devices and greatly enhanced usability. Do you really believe that .Mac functionality would appeal to more people and get more people to pay up when it comes time than these factors?

I can only explain your thinking to myself by imagining that you personally use .Mac frequently and intensively. Delusional as it may be you started to think that the iPhone, which is revolutionary, as is, would be developed and released without regard for economics and marketing, it’s singular emphasis being to utilize something that you have utilized before and found to be important.

mi5moav
Jan 10, 2007, 11:33 AM
The GPS thingie isn't actually a GPS chip. I believe the company is wirehook or hookwire and they make some chips that does triangulation or something. It's within the vicinity or something. I actually don't think it uses triangulation but probably bases something on strength of signal, distance from tower, i'm guessing now, but yeh that is way cool... think similar to the Disney phone were your momma can track you. Man this is going to set the dating world on fire. I type in specs for women I'm looking for and they also have the specs in their iphone and if I'm at a bar or club or wherever if say the iphone registers a 80% or more match strength it can signal me and her and we can actually find each other.

SeanMcg
Jan 10, 2007, 11:35 AM
I love how everyone is taking this "no third party apps" thing as gospel truth.

ATTENTION ALL MACRUMORS DENIZENS! Who have we heard this "no third party" thing from? Engadget, whose source is "noted analyst Michael Gartenburg." Who the **** is that? Is he from Apple? How did he learn this? Did he talk to anyone at Apple, did he use ESP, or did he use his "analyst powers" (AKA made some **** up)?

We really have NO IDEA if this phone will allow for third party apps or not. ...

Excellent point! I meant to say the same thing in my previous post. The Macrumors posting puts Engadget on the same footing as Time and David Pogue. I don't think so...

The emergency services i.e. phone locator in cell phones is based on cell technology, not GPS. GPS is [satellite] dependent, and this is no [satellite] phone. You are right about triangulation(or whatever method cell companies use), but I am not sure what the accuracy is of the triangulation. The Google map example used preset locations, so he was not being located by his phone id.

OK, I thought I saw something where the widget knew where you were. I know full well how GPS works, and GPS receiving technology is getting cheaper all the time. It just seems to me that the accuracy of an emergency cell locator SHOULD be high. If they are using triangulation based on cell towers, then it is not operationally different than GPS, so who cares if it has actual GPS? It all comes down to accuracy of the clocks. Now, it's just a matter of whether or not programmers will be able to access an API that exposes those functions.

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2007, 11:36 AM
Dude! Thank *you!* You got it!. I'm astonished at all the complaints I'm seeing. "It hasn't got this! It hasn't go that!" or "It can't do this! It can't do that! Why can't it do this/that???"

Did you guys miss the two most important aspects of this "phone"?

1) Multi-touch
2) Multi-touch



Not to understate this, but actually it is the over 200 patents that apple took out to make this product. Multi-tough is just one elements that allows them to do things with this phone that no other phone out there can do today. Since the phone is now a computer with an OS that can make it do what they want verses being hardward specific.

SeanMcg
Jan 10, 2007, 11:39 AM
...
You're living in a future that others only dreamed about. Can't you be a little excited and happy about it?

!!!YES!!!!

cblackmore
Jan 10, 2007, 11:40 AM
The one thing that I'm surprised not to be reading more about, is the REINVENTION OF UI - not just of mobile phones.

If the iPhone interface proves to be successful and cosmetically durable, the next logical step seems to be reinventing (if not completely remove) the static-keyboard and mouse as well. Computer screens that accept magic Multi-Touch input in addition to a keyboard.

Bye-bye to the beloved mouse, when you can just point/click/drag right on your screen. Try it yourself on your laptop for pretend-sake.

mrmma
Jan 10, 2007, 11:46 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, so this may have already been mentioned, but it seems to me that it is the interface that Jobs was so excited about, not the phone itself. That the interface is revolutionary not the phone itself, and that this year, we'll be seeing much more of the multitouch technology from Apple in all sorts of areas: the famous non-existent 12" MBP...though it would have to either attach to a keyboard, or have one attached to be practical as a general computer...

Possibly though to a lesser degree, this could appear in the new cinema displays...I would love to have a display that I could remove from its stand, use my fingers to browse the web, read emails, doodle with, etc, and then return to a stand to free up my hands for typing. Of course this wouldn't work for displays much larger than 17" unless they're ultra light, but you get the idea. There are many apps (iPhoto/iMovie) where drag n' drop would be more intuitive with a sophisticated touch screen.

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2007, 11:48 AM
The emergency services i.e. phone locator in cell phones is based on cell technology, not GPS. GPS is satalite dependent, and this is no satalite phone. You are right about triangulation(or whatever method cell companies use), but I am not sure what the accuracy is of the triangulation. The Google map example used preset locations, so he was not being located by his phone id.

This is not 100% true, there are two solutions out there, the one as you discribed is from a company called truepositon, they measure the time delay between towels as you talk to locate you. The other method uses an actualy GSP reciever chips and gets your location from the satellites. One difference in the systems is the first it requires the cell towels to have the smarts to figure out where you are and tell phone and E911 where you are. Using GPS the phone use the satellites system that already exist and the phone knows where it is then reports it to whom every needs its (i.e. E911 or an applications).

As someone point out this is not too reliable, since GPS does not work well indoors, so many times these phones with the GPS chips remembers the last known location and just uses that position. This is all fine as long as you in same build, if you get on a subway, you could be miles away from that location.

iSee
Jan 10, 2007, 11:51 AM
I love how everyone is taking this "no third party apps" thing as gospel truth.

ATTENTION ALL MACRUMORS DENIZENS! Who have we heard this "no third party" thing from? Engadget, whose source is "noted analyst Michael Gartenburg." Who the **** is that? Is he from Apple? How did he learn this? Did he talk to anyone at Apple, did he use ESP, or did he use his "analyst powers" (AKA made some **** up)?

We really have NO IDEA if this phone will allow for third party apps or not. Maybe you won't be able to install anything made by Joe Q. Public, maybe apps will be approved by Apple and sold on the iTunes Store. Maybe you WILL be able to roll your own. Maybe you won't, and it will be Apple software only. But until we hear from Apple themselves about this, I think it makes more sense to be cautiously optimistic instead of immediately deciding the sky is falling.

That's a good point. I am going to stop worrying about this. :)

This thing is going to be coming out right around the developer's conference in the summer. That would be the logical time to announce generally available 3rd-party development tools.

cblackmore
Jan 10, 2007, 11:55 AM
At first it does seem awkward not to have mobile acces to the iTunes Store - especially if it really runs OS X. But then that raises the need to run iTunes on the device, which would seem to require a slightly crippled smaller version of iTunes, which maybe isn't the best thing for the iTunes 'easy-to-use' model?

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

- Can't download songs directly from iTunes Store
- Can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly.

Rustus Maximus
Jan 10, 2007, 11:58 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, so this may have already been mentioned, but it seems to me that it is the interface that Jobs was so excited about, not the phone itself. That the interface is revolutionary not the phone itself, and that this year, we'll be seeing much more of the multi-touch technology from Apple in all sorts of areas:

Absolutely correct. Another person who paid close attention to the keynote yesterday! Cheers to you mrmma! You are looking at the coming interface for all iPod products from here forward. You are looking at a UI that will in one form or another become the new Desktop/Laptop UI. This is only the beginning. A few years from now we will all remember with quaintness the days when we had to use the keyboard (alá Scotty in Star Trek IV :D).

And speaking of Star Trek this Multi-Touch Interface is so reminiscent of the LCARS system there :).

Rocketman
Jan 10, 2007, 11:59 AM
It would be nice but that's not Apple's game plan.

Then again this is only a 1st generation device, maybe the v2 of the iPhone will feature some upgrades.

- 3G support
- Removable battery (to allow quick swaps if you can't recharge)
- User installable 3rd party applications
- Removable slot for additional media
- Integrated GPS
- High res camera

A slick interface is nice, but you also need applications and the hardware to support your requirements.

If Nokia could fit a N95 in a 770 tablet form with a tactile screen and upgrade the Symbian interface with something slicker, IMO it would make *my* perfect phone.

I mostly disagree.

Wimax superceeds 3G and 4G cellular
Battery dongle extends temporal power over removeable battery
No removeable slots, this is an all-in one
Net attached storage and net synch
Existing res camera also able to capture as a movie (1080-HD).

Yes, user installable 3rd party apps, as disclosed on Leopard release.
Yes, GPS, I for one want that feature disableable or private.

Rocketman

guzhogi
Jan 10, 2007, 12:04 PM
The one thing that I'm surprised not to be reading more about, is the REINVENTION OF UI - not just of mobile phones.

If the iPhone interface proves to be successful and cosmetically durable, the next logical step seems to be reinventing (if not completely remove) the static-keyboard and mouse as well. Computer screens that accept magic Multi-Touch input in addition to a keyboard.

Bye-bye to the beloved mouse, when you can just point/click/drag right on your screen. Try it yourself on your laptop for pretend-sake.

This reminds me of the computers in Star Trek (not including the original & Enterprise): all of it is done by touch. Plus, you can reconfigure the buttons on the screen and everything.

There are also some keyboards out there where instead of having the letters/numbers permamnently set on the keys, they have little OLEDs on each key. So if one day you do something in English, the keys would display the English alphabet and the next day you use Chinese, it'll display the Chinese alphabet instead. Also, they can be used as hot-keys for different apps. Only problem with that is it means each program would have to know what to do when each key is pressed. Or, there could be a "default" thing in the system and an application can just override it. But I like the idea of being able to reconfigure the keyboard/display/whatever input device to meet the needs of the user.

balamw
Jan 10, 2007, 12:05 PM
I would love to have a display that I could remove from its stand, use my fingers to browse the web, read emails, doodle with, etc, and then return to a stand to free up my hands for typing.
FWIW Microsoft had a product like this some number of years ago. IIRC the screen was Windows CE based and ran Remote Desktop back to your PC.

It was short lived.

B

mrmma
Jan 10, 2007, 12:12 PM
And speaking of Star Trek this Multi-Touch Interface is so reminiscent of the LCARS system there :).

Yes, and add a reliable voice interface for pesky text entry, and you've got a keyboardless computer.

All I could think of was those HP commercials where the actor/celebrity is drawing stuff in thin air, opening emails, pushing things away, all with his/her hands.

thirteen1031
Jan 10, 2007, 12:13 PM
At first it does seem awkward not to have mobile acces to the iTunes Store - especially if it really runs OS X. But then that raises the need to run iTunes on the device, which would seem to require a slightly crippled smaller version of iTunes, which maybe isn't the best thing for the iTunes 'easy-to-use' model?
Good point! But as I said before, changes can be made. I'm absolutely sure that Apple's long-term goal with this phone is to make it so that customers can have exactly what they want on the phone.

So, YOU may not have any desire to download new songs onto your phone. You use the phone primarily for talking to friends and making business arrangements. When you listen to music it's just on the way home. Maybe you like to really browse the iTunes store and take your time, so you don't need that option.

BUT, your teenage kid uses the phone in place of an iPod. He listens to a lot of music on it, and if there's a new song, he wants to be able to type in the name and download it instantly onto his phone. LIKELY, in the not too distant future, there will be that option. An addendum to the phone that allows instant music downloads.

That's the beauty of this phone. Such changes and options can be made and easily added.

goosnarrggh
Jan 10, 2007, 12:13 PM
It might help some readers to view iPhone as this:

Apple Tablet Nano (with no compromises whatsoever)

This radical thing has some features some have disregarded:

- Full access to net storage via 802.11g (soon to be n)
802.11 integrated in a smartphone is not revolutionary. Adding 802.11n would be an evolutionary step forward. Does anybody know about its power consumption profile?
- Multi-tasking
Multitasking is already possible in Windows Mobile-based smartphones. A more efficient process of shutting off the media player during a call and restarting it after the call is over might be nice. (I've only ever used Windows Mobile in a PDA, so I don't know how well it deals with multitasking within the context of a phone.)

HD resolution
320x480 is not HD.

- Full desktop app capacity with a low overhead OS (not quite full swiss army knife, but minimal compromises)
We don't know enough yet to judge whether this is true or not. Saying that the phone runs "OS X" doesn't necessarily mean any more than saying that a Windows Mobile Smartphone runs Windows.

The Windows Mobile user experience is comparable with a "typical" Windows experience, and some applications have been developed which look a lot like their desktop cousins. But the underlying programming interfaces are different.

I really want to read more details about what's really under the hood of this so-called "mini OS X". Maybe it really does provide the OS X programming API (that is, they ported Darwin to it). If that's the case, then they'll eventually have to come clean about it because Darwin itself is open-source.

Poff
Jan 10, 2007, 12:15 PM
I was afraid so..

MrCrowbar
Jan 10, 2007, 12:15 PM
HAHA I am sure it will come, but how are we to do video conference on the iPhone through skype when the camera is on the otherside of the phone?! :)

d'uh, mightyMirror. :p

blybug
Jan 10, 2007, 12:18 PM
At first it does seem awkward not to have mobile acces to the iTunes Store - especially if it really runs OS X. But then that raises the need to run iTunes on the device, which would seem to require a slightly crippled smaller version of iTunes, which maybe isn't the best thing for the iTunes 'easy-to-use' model?

There's little doubt that this will come eventually, maybe even with the initial release in June. Ever since the last version of iTunes added the "feature" of backwards sync-ing of iTMS songs, I've been expecting an iPod-based method of purchase. I mean really, in the current climate, anyone who has multiple music-purchasing networked computers is probably sophisticated enough to pass purchased tunes from computer to computer without using the iPod as an intermediary.

But if you purchase the song with an iPod/iPhone, of course you need this function to get it onto your computer. iTunes is ready!

The iTMS wouldn't have to be that crippled on the iPhone...same search & scroll (maybe this should be called "fling") interface Steve demonstrated for playing music, also drill-downable in iPod-style menus by artist, genre, new releases, etc. Wouldn't be your first choice of interface for casual browsing for something to buy, but perfect if you knew exactly what song or new album release you wanted while on the run.

Now that it's sunk in for 24 hours, I really don't understand why they called this "iPhone". It really should be "iPod phone" or "iPod Pro" or "iPod Extreme" or "iPod wifi" or "iPod 2" or "iiPod" :p . Isn't it clearly the next (r)evolutionary step of a device they specifically chose NOT to name in association with music in the first place? Obviously Jobs knew in 2001 that the iPod would eventually do much more than play MP3s. And to not capitalize on the still iconic iPod branding...seems odd...

I plan to buy one the first day.

Rocketman
Jan 10, 2007, 12:20 PM
Multitasking is already possible in Windows Mobile-based smartphones.

320x480 is not HD.


2 megapixel is. The camera, not the display.

I was not comparing to any windows device because the markets and features are nearly mutually exclusive due to the improved simplicity and integration of the released Apple device.

Also many (perhaps a majority) windows users have a bias against Apple and visa-versa.

Rocketman

barbpassman
Jan 10, 2007, 12:22 PM
[QUOTE=Macrumors;3232824]http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Time.com (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1575743,00.html) was given some information about the development of the Apple iPhone. Of particular interest, especially to those who follow Apple rumors, is a tidbit about how the iPhone interface came to be. According to the author, "a few years ago" Steve Jobs noticed all the research money spent into Tablet PCs and had a team of Apple engineers working on a tablet interface with touch screen.



- Can't download songs directly from iTunes Store
- Can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly.
- "Web speed was OK—not great, but OK."
- "Apple went through numerous iterations of the glass surface, trying to find one that’s not too slick or too rough, or that shows grease and fingerprints too much. "
- "It feels amazing in your hand"



I am troubled by the small amount of memory in Applephone.
If this device is supposed to replace our cell phone +iPOd, don't we need more memory?
8 Gig will not hold a music library or many vdeos plus photos etc.

The current iPods sold for Video use have considerably more memory-
So, for the money, should not Applephone come with 20Gig or 30Gig memory?

If I purchase an ApplePhone, I will still need an iPod to carry my music (I currently)have about7 Gig of music- classical and folk- on my three year old iPod.
That does not make sense.

SeanMcg
Jan 10, 2007, 12:23 PM
...Obviously Jobs knew in 2001 that the iPod would eventually do much more than play MP3s. And to not capitalize on the still iconic iPod branding...seems odd...

As I said before, they are emphasizing the iPod features first and taking advantage of the iPod ecosystem. Just look at their web page.

cblackmore
Jan 10, 2007, 12:25 PM
Ah yes, true, I can't forget the instinct of the younger audience to be so ultra adaptable and multi-tasking.

They could care less about minor things like the iTunes on their handheld being different from the iTunes on their laptop/desktop.

They'll eat this iPhone quicker than a Twinkie, then burp and yawn and be ready for the next innovation :)


Good point! But as I said before, changes can be made. I'm absolutely sure that Apple's long-term goal with this phone is to make it so that customers can have exactly what they want on the phone.

So, YOU may not have any desire to download new songs onto your phone. You use the phone primarily for talking to friends and making business arrangements. When you listen to music it's just on the way home. Maybe you like to really browse the iTunes store and take your time, so you don't need that option.

BUT, your teenage kid uses the phone in place of an iPod. He listens to a lot of music on it, and if there's a new song, he wants to be able to type in the name and download it instantly onto his phone. LIKELY, in the not too distant future, there will be that option. An addendum to the phone that allows instant music downloads.

That's the beauty of this phone. Such changes and options can be made and easily added.

goosnarrggh
Jan 10, 2007, 12:35 PM
2 megapixel is. The camera, not the display.
Hum. Most digital cameras only record the intensity of one of the 3 primary colours per "pixel" in the sensor. So a 2 megapixel image only captures the RGB intensities of 666666 composite regions in space.

I was not comparing to any windows device because the markets and features are nearly mutually exclusive due to the improved simplicity and integration of the released Apple device.
It seemed reasonable that you would have been comparing Apple's Smartphone to other Smartphones already on the market. Obviously I was wrong. If you don't mind my asking, what were you comparing it with?

Also many (perhaps a majority) windows users have a bias against Apple and visa-versa.
Possible. Probable, even. But I don't like to consider myself to be one of those people.

My primary computing platform has always been Windows, and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future. I also consider myself something of an Apple enthusiast though: I love my iPod, and my notebook is a Mac.

cblackmore
Jan 10, 2007, 12:35 PM
Hmmm, I'm starting to agree with that! iPhone does seem a little beneath it now. I like iPod Pro best; it matches their existing branding. Or iPod X (since it runs OS X).

But I'm sure all of those were on a whiteboard somewhere in a branding meeting, and got thrown out for various reasons.

There's little doubt that this will come eventually, maybe even with the initial release in June. Ever since the last version of iTunes added the "feature" of backwards sync-ing of iTMS songs, I've been expecting an iPod-based method of purchase. I mean really, in the current climate, anyone who has multiple music-purchasing networked computers is probably sophisticated enough to pass purchased tunes from computer to computer without using the iPod as an intermediary.

But if you purchase the song with an iPod/iPhone, of course you need this function to get it onto your computer. iTunes is ready!

The iTMS wouldn't have to be that crippled on the iPhone...same search & scroll (maybe this should be called "fling") interface Steve demonstrated for playing music, also drill-downable in iPod-style menus by artist, genre, new releases, etc. Wouldn't be your first choice of interface for casual browsing for something to buy, but perfect if you knew exactly what song or new album release you wanted while on the run.

Now that it's sunk in for 24 hours, I really don't understand why they called this "iPhone". It really should be "iPod phone" or "iPod Pro" or "iPod Extreme" or "iPod wifi" or "iPod 2" or "iiPod" :p . Isn't it clearly the next (r)evolutionary step of a device they specifically chose NOT to name in association with music in the first place? Obviously Jobs knew in 2001 that the iPod would eventually do much more than play MP3s. And to not capitalize on the still iconic iPod branding...seems odd...

zimtheinvader
Jan 10, 2007, 12:39 PM
The iPhone is good news, and will no doubt enjoy sucess, but it feels like too little too late for power users, the UMPC has already upped the ante, albeit clumsily at this point. Apple is positioning itself to compete with PalmOS, but WM5 already does almost all this and then some, and, like I said, UMPCs almost this size feature WindowsXP Tablet, a really powerful OS. Or look at the GP2X, it can do so much because it features an open OS (linux). Even Windows Mobile was decent, due the plethora of 3rd party apps and syncability. Frankly, I was hoping for something far greater, like ACTUALLY featuring the REAL OSX. Not some scalled-down locked out version. Even if it was bigger, (ie. ibook/tablet form). This does nothing for me as a student, the screen is too small for effective notes and the lack of keyboard/Office support or even a spreadsheet App so far means its a cool ipod at best, not a professional device yet.... does it even have TV-out?

That is what I use most on my current 5.5G ipod. I guess its lucky I got my ipod for Christmas, since Macworld SF was pretty dissapointing. I guess I'll go ahead and order my MB now, since I won't be getting an OSX Tablet or ultralite...

Why are editors gushing about its brilliance? An ipod taped to a newton can do MUCH more than it can do at this point, except for some fancy album artwork browsing....

thirteen1031
Jan 10, 2007, 12:39 PM
I actually had some questions that I don't see being asked here:

1) The keypad--do you have to use one finger? Text-messaging kids often use more. Could you, for example, tap away with two thumbs?

2) I assume, as on other phones, you can take a picture and e-mail it. Does it get added into your photo album? Can you manage it like those other photos? (Again, I assume the answer is "yes" but there was no such demonstration).

3) How smear proof is this phone? You hold it up to your ear--will you get smears on the screen? How do you clean it?

4) How fragile is it? How well does it withstand being dropped? Does it fit in your pocket or, like a blackberry, do you need a to carry it in a bag?

5) Those 5 hours of battery life--does that mean 5 hours when the phone is in use, but not when it's not in use? Or 5 hours period? If it's only when the phone is in use, how long does it last without recharge if you don't use it? (i.e., I go all day without using my iPhone. Is the battery still charged or does it low and needing a recharge?).

Any answers to these questions?

blybug
Jan 10, 2007, 12:42 PM
Hmmm, I'm starting to agree with that! iPhone does seem a little beneath it now. I like iPod Pro best; it matches their existing branding. Or iPod X (since it runs OS X).

But I'm sure all of those were on a whiteboard somewhere in a branding meeting, and got thrown out for various reasons.

MacPod!! [/slaps head]

thirteen1031
Jan 10, 2007, 12:46 PM
Hmmm, I'm starting to agree with that! iPhone does seem a little beneath it now.
Only if one sees a phone as just a phone--a device to call people. But phones are already being seen as more than that. Call it an "iPod Pro" and people will think it's for music and videos.

Call it a phone, and they know it's for phone calls, internet AND, given what phones are now beginning to do, music and maybe video. If you don't call it a "phone" then the casual consumer won't know that it's for communication purposes.

Besides, you saw the stats. There are people buying and using mobile phones who don't have a computer OR an iPod! None of those people can likely afford the iPhone right now, but the price will drop. And while they may say, "I don't need an iPod," they will say, "I do need a phone."

"Phone" is a wise name. Everyone knows what it is, and everyone knows how useful one is. An iPod is a luxury item. A phone is a necessary item (stuck in the desert? You need a phone, not an iPod). It's just smart marketing.

dontmatter
Jan 10, 2007, 12:47 PM
If you can't sync wirelessly, what exactly does bluetooth do? Why on earth would apple not allow wireless synching?

guzhogi
Jan 10, 2007, 12:47 PM
[QUOTE=Macrumors;3232824]http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Time.com (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1575743,00.html) was given some information about the development of the Apple iPhone. Of particular interest, especially to those who follow Apple rumors, is a tidbit about how the iPhone interface came to be. According to the author, "a few years ago" Steve Jobs noticed all the research money spent into Tablet PCs and had a team of Apple engineers working on a tablet interface with touch screen.



- Can't download songs directly from iTunes Store
- Can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly.
- "Web speed was OK—not great, but OK."
- "Apple went through numerous iterations of the glass surface, trying to find one that’s not too slick or too rough, or that shows grease and fingerprints too much. "
- "It feels amazing in your hand"



I am troubled by the small amount of memory in Applephone.
If this device is supposed to replace our cell phone +iPOd, don't we need more memory?
8 Gig will not hold a music library or many vdeos plus photos etc.

The current iPods sold for Video use have considerably more memory-
So, for the money, should not Applephone come with 20Gig or 30Gig memory?

If I purchase an ApplePhone, I will still need an iPod to carry my music (I currently)have about7 Gig of music- classical and folk- on my three year old iPod.
That does not make sense.

While 8 GB is low for movies, don't forget the first iPod only had 5 GB. Besides, do you really need your WHOLE music, picture and movie library on your phone? I don't hear many people complaining about Shuffles having only 1 GB. While it would be nice to have a flash card slot (CompactFlash, Secure Digital, whatever), I don't believe you need to carry every single song, picture and movie you own on your phone.

Rustus Maximus
Jan 10, 2007, 12:49 PM
I actually had some questions that I don't see being asked here:

1) The keypad--do you have to use one finger? Text-messaging kids often use more. Could you, for example, tap away with two thumbs?

2) I assume, as on other phones, you can take a picture and e-mail it. Does it get added into your photo album? Can you manage it like those other photos? (Again, I assume the answer is "yes" but there was no such demonstration).

3) How smear proof is this phone? You hold it up to your ear--will you get smears on the screen? How do you clean it?

4) How fragile is it? How well does it withstand being dropped? Does it fit in your pocket or, like a blackberry, do you need a to carry it in a bag?

5) Those 5 hours of battery life--does that mean 5 hours when the phone is in use, but not when it's not in use? Or 5 hours period? If it's only when the phone is in use, how long does it last without recharge if you don't use it? (i.e., I go all day without using my iPhone. Is the battery still charged or does it low and needing a recharge?).

Any answers to these questions?

1. I would assume you can type just as you would on a keyboard, their online demo of typing seems to indicate this better than the keynote presentation.

2. Didn't really see that represented in the demo, but since it IS Apple...I'd say yes it does.

3. Not really sure on this one and I doubt others will be either until there are more hands on demos of this phone. One would hope it is somehow more "smear resistent" but even if it isn't....I imagine it can be cleaned with minimal effort and/or chemicals :)

4. This is a question I know I have as well....this is one of my MAIN questions actually. Not that I wanna be able to chuck the thing from half-court, hit the 3 pointer and still be able to walk over, pick it up and call Grandma in Florida mind you...but I do hope it can take a lickin and keep on...poddin'?

5. If I understood correctly...5 hours would be straight talk time...16 for audio usage only...more if on standby only.

brepublican
Jan 10, 2007, 12:49 PM
The one thing that I'm surprised not to be reading more about, is the REINVENTION OF UI - not just of mobile phones.

I know! And I hate how they are saying that Apple II only changed the industry. It changed the World! And Steve + Woz also made GUI. That in itself is HUGE! Its incredible, this is truly the second coming! To quote Time:

He's like Willy Wonka and Harry Potter rolled up into one.

Let's see where this goes, I'm really excited :)

mhuk01
Jan 10, 2007, 12:51 PM
Only if one sees a phone as just a phone--a device to call people. But phones are already being seen as more than that. Call it an "iPod Pro" and people will think it's for music and videos.


I agree, and predict that a similar version of the iPhone will appear, although it will just be an ipod with touchscreen. That'll be called either the ipod pro (with original ipod still sold) or simply the ipod video and the original ipod disappears to avoid conflicting market positions.

poppe
Jan 10, 2007, 12:51 PM
If I can't type one handed with my thumb like I can with my Audiovoxx PPC-6700 then there will be no way what so ever I'll be getting it. My phone is for quick multitaksing communication with business partners and friends. Not for stopping, sitting, and going ok I'm gonna pinch this and do that and do this "Oh wait what were you saying"

Cause on the Keynote Job's does everything on the Keyboard with two hands and that would not do at all...

spine
Jan 10, 2007, 12:53 PM
I'm not sure if someone has already mentioned it but...

I have a feeling iTunes may be renamed when leopard is released. It no longer manages just music anymore. With the release of Apple TV being managed by it and now the entire iPhone (which is way more than just a phone) it just seems odd that they would still call iTunes iTunes :p

Can anyone think of some cool names? iLibrary? iCatalogue?

As you can tell, I'm not having the most creative of days :p

How about iLife?
Maybe that's why iLife was not updated??

Digital Fury
Jan 10, 2007, 12:54 PM
I mostly disagree.

Wimax superceeds 3G and 4G cellularAnd something else will superceed WiMax at some point, but it's a bogus argument.

They key element you forget is "will" because right now it's mostly non-existent and will be irrelevant for a good while, unlike 3G networks which are available worldwide right now - again the US lack of 3G is a very special case.Battery dongle extends temporal power over removeable batteryAnd like all afterthought aftermarket hacks and dongles, it will be more expensive and bigger than if the feature was built-in.No removeable slots, this is an all-in oneI guess then it doesn't have a slot for the SIM on the left side and a port for a dock, otherwise it's not an all-in-one device by your logic.Net attached storage and net synchBut I thought it was an all-in-one, so I need to carry something else too???Existing res camera also able to capture as a movie (1080-HD).I have no idea what you mean.Yes, user installable 3rd party apps, as disclosed on Leopard release.
Yes, GPS, I for one want that feature disableable or private.I have no idea where you are getting this because I can’t find it in the ADC preview documentation myself – which document and page please?

Obviously if it were possible to install 3rd party applications Steve would have talked about it because it's on everybody mind and why not advertise that it has a built-in GPS if it has one? Probably because it doesn’t it.

uNext
Jan 10, 2007, 12:54 PM
iLike the iPhone.

thejadedmonkey
Jan 10, 2007, 12:57 PM
If you can't sync wirelessly, what exactly does bluetooth do? Why on earth would apple not allow wireless synching?

Bluetooth is a good for...
syncing, wireless headsets, wireless phone to phone transfer, in-car phone systems, wireless modem, remotes for presentations, just to name a few things...:rolleyes:

sishaw
Jan 10, 2007, 01:00 PM
Bluetooth is a good for...
syncing, wireless headsets, wireless phone to phone transfer, in-car phone systems, wireless modem, remotes for presentations, just to name a few things...:rolleyes:

Hardware keyboards.

slffl
Jan 10, 2007, 01:05 PM
Why do people keep bringing up 'businness men' and 'corporate'. Who cares if the iPhone doesn't have features these people want. It doesn't need to sell to these people to succeed. I sure don't know any suits who have ipods and that's done fine.

They gave me the consumer device I wanted. The 'business men' can find something else for all I care.

emotion
Jan 10, 2007, 01:06 PM
Software doesn't change those hardware aspects on your Mac either. I think Starflyer was referring more to the ease of upgrading the phone's UI and OS. Which given the nature of Apple's approach here is going to be considerably easier than any cell presently on the market or in the near future.

I think many are also overlooking something else here. Look beyond the phone itself...beyond the product. Look at the UI. Maybe I am making too much of it but Multi-Touch is the real story here. The way we interact with a device is about to be changed again and once again it is Apple leading that revolution. Add voice interaction with the computer to this mix and goodbye keyboard and mouse. The next phase of computing is about to begin, this phone is just a peek of things to come. As Steve said, there are some incredible Mac products coming in the next few months. MAC...pro stuff...they have not forgotten who they are they've just added a missing piece of their puzzle for technological domination :D.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. :)

thirteen1031
Jan 10, 2007, 01:06 PM
1. I would assume you can type just as you would on a keyboard, their online demo of typing seems to indicate this better than the keynote presentation..
You're right. The online demo does imply the use of two fingers (thumbs) to type away.

Here's another question: the screen adjusts for photos. Turn it sideways and they expand. And you can certainly use album search that way as well....

Can you turn the phone sideways for a LARGER and wider keyboard making for easier typing as well as viewing? Again, I don't see that demonstrated, but I'm guessing that you can turn the phone and the screen will adjust no matter what you're doing.

pubius
Jan 10, 2007, 01:10 PM
in general. i'm not upset with the iphone. this step had to be taken. i may not be a part of the first step, but it's just the beginning.

but, (i went through a lot of pages, but not all, so if this is a repeat, then sorry) my main concern is this... apple had an opportunity to revolutionize the cell phone industry. it's so broken and backwards right now. and they joined right along with it. they could have licensed space and ran it themselves. granted, a serious endeavor, but that's what needs to happen. thus eliminating the million factors that play into joining a single provider (can't download songs, no control over contracts, more ugly logos, limited accessability, etc etc etc).

anyway, a huge opportunity lost (and i'm on cingular).

cblackmore
Jan 10, 2007, 01:10 PM
Funny thing...
On my last trip to San Francisco, I got lost in the Presidio (on a rainy day with not a single soul around). And it was Google maps on my Treo that saved me. So true, I didn't need my iPod, I needed my phone :)

Marketing-wise, using Phone definitely makes a lot of sense. And yes, Phones are no longer just calling devices. It just seemed (and maybe I just read too much into it) that when Apple monikered "Pod" that they were deliberately signalling such a new paradigm and category of device that it warranted new terminology that wasn't dependent on what the general public was already familiar with.

You can go on forever with this kind of stuff.

Only if one sees a phone as just a phone--a device to call people. But phones are already being seen as more than that. Call it an "iPod Pro" and people will think it's for music and videos....

"Phone" is a wise name. Everyone knows what it is, and everyone knows how useful one is. An iPod is a luxury item. A phone is a necessary item (stuck in the desert? You need a phone, not an iPod). It's just smart marketing.

oliverlubin
Jan 10, 2007, 01:11 PM
anyone know the answers to these questions:

1. if I am within range of wifi signal and someone else is within range of the same wifi signal or network, will the phone have to use the Cingular network to make the call or is there some kind of rendezvous functionality built in? (edit: if it has not cleared the FCC and Jobs was really "talking" to those people, does that have any bearing on the question?)

2. if i am within range of a wifi signal and underground or away from a cellular signal can i still make a "call"?

3. how much will the monthly data plans/minutes plans be that Cingular "requires" with this 2 year contract?

i think the June date of release will prove to be in-line with the release of 10.5 which will also coincide with additional functionality of the iPhone that was not yet announced for any number of reasons... also, i agree with many who've said that .Mac integration was noticeably absent from any of the discussion.

mrmma
Jan 10, 2007, 01:16 PM
Can you turn the phone sideways for a LARGER and wider keyboard making for easier typing as well as viewing? Again, I don't see that demonstrated, but I'm guessing that you can turn the phone and the screen will adjust no matter what you're doing.

I was thinking about this. It makes a lot of sense...

thirteen1031
Jan 10, 2007, 01:17 PM
If I can't type one handed with my thumb like I can with my Audiovoxx PPC-6700 then there will be no way what so ever I'll be getting it.
Keep in mind that he was demonstrating it to an audience. From the look of the online demo, you can certainly type one-handed with your thumb. And just because you CAN pinch and adjust photos and such doesn't mean you have to.

Once again, I think the ideal for this phone, eventually, is for everyone to customize it to their needs. If a phone for quick multitasking communication is what you need, then you'll probably be able to adjust what the phone can do to make that a priority over listening to music or playing with photos.

Although I really don't see why you can't do that with the phone as is. From the online-demo, it seems that you can do that very quickly and easily. See here: Phone/Phone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/phone/)

So. What can't this phone do that you need it to do?

Maccus Aurelius
Jan 10, 2007, 01:17 PM
In either case, the actual interface is great groundwork for future products, such as iPods tablets and other gizmos. I like the clickwheel though, I'd hate to see that item be discarded.

gugy
Jan 10, 2007, 01:17 PM
I love the iPhone. Fantastic.

But....

We need a bare bones iPhone. Maybe with just contact info, 2gig and music. that's it and priced at maximum $300

and pleeeeessssseeeee..... another carrier besides Cingular:eek:

eric_n_dfw
Jan 10, 2007, 01:23 PM
I don't see why wireless sync matters. Every night you will have to dock iPhone to charge, everything will sync while your sleeping.

My "home" computer is in an upstairs den but I want the charging cradle on my dresser downstairs where my put my wallet and keys every evening. I'm hoping the cradle can be plugged right into the wall like my iPod one can and that would trigger a WiFi sync to my PowerMac.

Today, I hate having to take my iPod upstairs and every day to sync up my podcasts. I've been thinking about ditching it and finding some kind of aux-in for my Palm T|X and start using it as my podcast player.

Cougarcat
Jan 10, 2007, 01:26 PM
I've only skimmed through this thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned... But, if you watch the keynote again - specifically the part where Steve talks about the OS and 'solid foundations, etc.' - you'll see that he clearly emphasizes that the benefits of using OS X are that it enables them "to write apps; it's got cocoa; it's got core animation built-in...it's got all the stuff we want". Maybe it's just me, but I take from that that it's going to be opened up to wider development.

Exactly; not to mention that the Widgets the iPhone uses just cries out for 3rd party development. I bet at WWDC, 3 things will happen: The iPhone will be released, Steve Jobs will demo the final version of Dashcode which will allow you to write Widgets for the phone, and a small update to iTunes will be released, which will allow you to sync your current Mac OS X widgets with the phone.