Poll: Who is of greater significance: Woz or Jobs?

[MacRumors]

Vote: Poll: Who is of greater significance: Woz or Jobs? (http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=181&ref=forums.macrumors.com)

[janey]

obviously woz, without him jobs would be (almost) nothing.
edit: don't ask me, ask my bf ibookin

[melchior]

yeah i said woz too.

jobs has his moments, but woz is a god

[janey]

Originally posted by melchior
yeah i said woz too.

jobs has his moments, but woz is a god
:) love your reply
woz == brains behind almost everything
jobs == marketing dude

what use is there for marketing dudes when there's nothing to market...:rolleyes:

[springscansing]

I would say its ridiculous to say steve jobs is only a marketing dude.

Didn't he begin work on the iMac like the first day or two after he returned to apple? What about NeXT and Pixar?

The man is obviously a lot more than a marketer, jeez.

[boobers]

But in short the answer is,IMHO, Jobs.

[janey]

Originally posted by springscansing
I would say its ridiculous to say steve jobs is only a marketing dude.

Didn't he begin work on the iMac like the first day or two after he returned to apple? What about NeXT and Pixar?

The man is obviously a lot more than a marketer, jeez.
he was/is the head of next and pixar, he wasn't teh technical genius behind it.
he hated the fruity iMacs.

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by übergeek
...what use is there for marketing dudes when there's nothing to market...:rolleyes:

What good is it to create something that no one knows about?...:rolleyes:


I agree that Woz is the creator, but Jobs took, and is currently taking, this tech game to new levels.:D

[janey]

Originally posted by MacQuest
What good is it to create something that no one knows about?...:rolleyes:
word of mouth. if it's that good people will know without the help of someone like jobs.

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by übergeek
word of mouth. if it's that good people will know without the help of someone like jobs.

Wishful thinking.

If this were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Macs would be dominant because of the word of mouth advertising in reference to their superiority.

Winblows is dominant because of what? Marketing. All be it decietful propoganda on their part.

Same thing happened with the old VHS vs. BetaMax wars in the early 80's.

Matsu****a marketed VHS format better than Sony marketed their Beta format.

Word of mouth didn't prevail over Matsu****a's marketing, so we ended up with larger, lower quality VHS tapes as the standard.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by übergeek
word of mouth. if it's that good people will know without the help of someone like jobs.

Right, that's why everyone has a mac... I forgot.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by übergeek
he was/is the head of next and pixar, he wasn't teh technical genius behind it.
he hated the fruity iMacs.

Yes but the original iMac was his idea for god sakes. Who cares if he didn't like the stupid colors.

[szark]

Originally posted by übergeek
word of mouth. if it's that good people will know without the help of someone like jobs.

Many loyal fans of BeOS, NeXT, Amiga, Atari, etc. would disagree...

IMHO, both the creation of the product and the marketing are equally important.

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by szark
IMHO, both the creation of the product and the marketing are equally important.

Amen.

[janey]

okay okay sheesh
i'll change
woz = jobs
without woz there will be no jobs, without jobs there would be no woz

[Gyroscope]

you guys obviously dont know what are u talkin about.


Stevie took GUI ideas from xerox/p and brought it to the masses via original Mac.

If it wasnt for Macintosh i dont think apple would have survived early-mid 80's with Apple II -> line of computers.

I agree that Woz is such a nice human being and extremley talented engineer. I dont think that he was that much involved in original Macintosh/Lisa projects.

Original basic concept of iMac existed before Stevie returned to Apple. It existed as Mac NC (network computer). Stevie just added few things (such as CD ROM) and there u got it.

[timbloom]

Jobs is a good business man, and able to foresee trends very well.

Woz made the Apple computers what they were though.

I think it determines what scale you are rating this on, wether it is apple as a company, or the revolution they "ignited".

It was actually a perfect combination, but when it comes to me sitting here thinking about what I love in computers, it has nothing to do with business and marketing. Woz was the tinkerer, he was the guy that wanted his own computer, and made it happen due to his own brilliance as a tinkerer. I respect Woz more than I respect Jobs. I could go on and rant why, but I won't waste your time. http://www.Woz.org

[Sleix]

Originally posted by übergeek
:) love your reply
woz == brains behind almost everything
jobs == marketing dude

what use is there for marketing dudes when there's nothing to market...:rolleyes:

It's like Walt Disney and Ub Iwerks back in the late 20s.

Ub Iwerks was the brains behind Mickey Mouse
Walt Disney was the marketing guy. ;)

Steven B.

[scem0]

I would have to say Woz, because he was the real brains behind apple during the beginnings of apple. And a lot of things being credited to Steve Jobs in this thread aren't totally Steve's ideas. Yeah, SJ is great, but I still think Woz is better.

[ibookin']

Originally posted by MacQuest
Same thing happened with the old VHS vs. BetaMax wars in the early 80's.

Matsu****a marketed VHS format better than Sony marketed their Beta format.

Word of mouth didn't prevail over Matsu****a's marketing, so we ended up with larger, lower quality VHS tapes as the standard.

I've heard that wasn't the only reason that VHS prevailed over the higher quality Betamax.

There was simply more porno available on VHS than there was on Beta. ;)

Also the VHS tapes were longer length than the Beta.

[backspinner]

IF you start talking about video tapes, you SHOULD also mention the video2000 format which was better than VHS and betamax. Sorry for contributing to the off-topic topic...

[rdas7]

Jobs & Woz = Batman & Robin


Batman's got a bunch of really cool toys - and hey, he's got the Batcave. But without Robin, Batman would have bit the dust long ago.

I think this poll should be changed to: who is cooler: Paul McCartney or John Lennon?

[MacFan25]

Woz was the brains behind Apple, but without Jobs Apple might not have made it.

[pivo6]

It has to be Jobs, since he was played by the more famous actor in the movie, the name which escapes my mind at this moment.:D

[DakotaGuy]

No doubt, Steve Jobs...when he came back to the company in the late 90's it was on the verge of bankruptsy. He saved it. Well he and the iMac.

[dickrichie]

The world may never know.

I by the way didnt vote on this. Both men are visionaries. I doubt either would become what they are without the other.

[lmalave]

Without a doubt Jobs. With all due respect to Woz, there are a LOT of talented engineers in this world. But there are precious few talented, visionary leaders. The way I would put it is, Jobs changed Woz's life forever. Woz might be a regular person in the crowd of engineers in Silicon Valley. It was Jobs that made Apple what it is. It was Jobs that turned what was then a tinkerers' hobby into a billion-dollar enterprise.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by übergeek
okay okay sheesh
i'll change
woz = jobs
without woz there will be no jobs, without jobs there would be no woz

I think Jobs was destined for greatness. If not with Apple then with some other endeavor. To be honest I'm not sure I could say the same about Woz. Woz should count himself very lucky that he was at the right place at the right time for Jobs to take Woz's hobby and just run with it....

[iJon]

Originally posted by pivo6
It has to be Jobs, since he was played by the more famous actor in the movie, the name which escapes my mind at this moment.:D
noah wylie(actually i dont know how to spell his last name, thats just what it sounds like) he is on ER. i think they both had there pros and cons. i still think woz was smarter and helped more. but when i think of it i have never met any of these people nor did i work for apple in the 80's so what would i really know.

iJon

[jimjiminyjim]

Given the fact that Jobs is currently in the spotlight, and given past polls that show that many of our users are relatively new to the internet, relatively new to the mac, and/or relatively new to following mac rumors, I'd say lots of people probably voted for jobs because they don't know who woz is.

[rickvanr]

woz is the man

[pilotgi]

It's like asking which MacRumors member is of more significance.

I didn't vote.

[wdlove]

I voted for Steve because he is what is making Apple great today. His return saved Apple! We need to remember that with Woz & Jobs there would be no Apple. They should have that garage in a museum at the headquarters!

[eric_n_dfw]

I think they both are great but I gave Jobs the nod because this is a Mac Rumors web and Woz had less to do with the Mac than Jobs. (and because I drooled over NeXTStep from the 1st day I saw it in 1991)

Woz is an incredible guy though. If this was a question of who I would rather have dinner with, he would win out in a heart beat. His love of teaching and things that matter beyond the success of Apple Computer put him in much higher regard to me.

Of all of the senior people involved with/at Apple that I've read about or heard speak, Avi Tenivan would be at the top of my list. Avi and Jobs are to Mac OS X what Woz and Jobs were to the Apple II.

[alset]

With all due respect to Woz, I pick Jobs. The group that created DOS may have been responsible at the start, but without Bill Gates running M$ and capitalizing on the market the Windows world would be very different, today. So it goes with Apple.

Without SJ we would be in a very different world. Woz was the QB that threw a great pass, Jobs is the receiver who carried the ball 10 miles to score.

Dan

[Winston Smith]

Its woz Apple says so, consider how every Apple press release ends:

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Apple is committed to bringing the best personal computing experience to students, educators, creative professionals and consumers around the world through its innovative hardware, software and Internet offerings.

Who engineered the Apple II?

Woz

Therefore without Woz no Apple.

OK OK several others did there best to kill Apple and Jobs has saved it and will win in the foreseeable end but no Woz no Apple ergo the answer is Woz!

[springscansing]

The whole thing about beta being better than VHS but losing due to marketing is a myth.

How long is a beta tape? Anyone know?

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by szark
Many loyal fans of BeOS, NeXT, Amiga, Atari, etc. would disagree...

IMHO, both the creation of the product and the marketing are equally important. And as Steve Jobs learned, working within the confines of a public company with a finger on the pulse of the economic situation is also important.

Though that still doesn't stop him all the time -- ie, the last minute squashing of ATI for a premature leak.

[Makosuke]

I'm with many here that it's not really a "pick one" situation, but since I felt like voting, I had to go for Jobs. It all depends on the timeframe, though.

If we're talking about the birth of Apple, then Woz is probably more important. He's the technical genius that made it happen, which for a startup like that is all-important. So we all owe him a debt of gratitude.

But if you look at the Apple of today, Woz hasn't had an impact in going on 20 years. Steve, on the other hand, has used thinking outside the box to re-shape some of the asthetic fundamentals of the entire computer industry, which is in turn the basis for modern society. No, he's not able to build things himself. But he plants the seeds of these ideas, and unlike so many others, makes them happen. Then the world follows.

So they're both important to Apple, and computing in general, in the grand scheme of things. But at this point, it is Steve that has kept Apple relevant, and Woz's great stuff is in the distant past.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by springscansing
The whole thing about beta being better than VHS but losing due to marketing is a myth.

How long is a beta tape? Anyone know? Then why didn't SVHS take off and become mainstream? Beta's problem was the VHS was good enough and cheaper. Kind of like Windows.

[springscansing]

Didn't I just say it was a myth?

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by springscansing
Didn't I just say it was a myth? Sorry, I read your post as saying that Beta's dieing do to poor marketting being the myth. Are you saying that it wasn't better quality than VHS?

[eric_n_dfw]

After doing a little research on the web, I see that you are right - the difference in recording time between VHS and Beta seems to be the key issue that gave VHS the win there.

[firewire2001]

im kind of offended that you would want a poll about this sort of thing.

i think it's a little degrading, honestly.

[yzedf]

Wozniak is trying to help society. Jobs is not.

w00t w00t for my man Woz!

[janey]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
No doubt, Steve Jobs...when he came back to the company in the late 90's it was on the verge of bankruptsy. He saved it. Well he and the iMac.
well you have to realize that there would have been no company to save from the brink of bankrupcy if there was no Woz.

You also have to realize that the original iMac was revolutionary, because of the design and the colors that it was available in (and also you'll prolly remember that steve didn't really like the fruity colors of the iMacs). So technically the honor goes to Jonathan Ive (http://www.apple.com/creative/collateral/ama/0102/imac.html), VP of Industrial Design @ Apple
BTW vote for him so he can win the 2002 Designer of the Year award @ http://www.designmuseum.org/

[scem0]

Originally posted by übergeek
So technically the honor goes to Jonathan Ive (http://www.apple.com/creative/collateral/ama/0102/imac.html), VP of Industrial Design @ Apple
BTW vote for him so he can win the 2002 Designer of the Year award @ http://www.designmuseum.org/

I can't find where to vote.... I want to though. :)

[Winston Smith]

scem0 once your on the site you'll find the voting from the menu link!

[wdlove]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
scem0 once your on the site you'll find the voting from the menu link!

Thank you Winston Smith, I went to the site to vote for Johnathon Ive. I wish that would show a running total of the votes, unless I missed that. My wife is going to vote also! Hope others on this Forum will vote also!!!!;)

[voicegy]

As I sit here looking at my old Beta machine, which finally bit the dust after God knows how many years of incredible service, I have to chime in on what was probably the biggest contributor to the death of the Betamax format for consumers.

Sony held the technology close to its vest. They had it, and they made the machines. If other manufacturers came knockin' at the doors, asking to make Beta boxes, they arrogantly shooed them out the door. You want Betamax? Then buy Sony.

VHS technology, however, was an open source system. Any manufacturer could make a VHS box.

So we all end up going to the store to buy our first home video taping system. What do we see on the shelves? Dozens of brands of VHS machines, at all sorts of price ranges...and one Beta machine, hellishly expensive, but far superior in so many ways. (I personally LOVED the size format, and the superior sound of Hi Fi Beta).

Consumers voted with their pocketbooks. So did audiophiles and similar geeks. We were the ones who got "into" the superiority of Beta, while the masses got "into" the cheap boxes that, in their minds, let them do the same thing for less.

It became hard to continue being in a minority, and because the Sony technology was built to last, we weren't needing to buy a new one every few years, except for the SuperBeta and Hi Fi Beta formats that came out. I remember blowing away my friends when I put my Beta on "pause"...the picture was rock solid steady, and they were astounded.

Betamax remained the standard in the professional industry for many, many years. Ever see a news crew out on in the field shooting? The cameras were always Betamax. Of course, today's technology blows away the idea of magnetized tape being dragged across spinning heads as an acceptable means of recording, but in its day, Betamax couldn't be touched.

Whenever the subject of Beta and VHS comes up, I always think of Apple OS and Windows, or Apple Macintosh and, say, IBM PC's. There is such a strong similarity there, in concept, execution and "open" technology vs. "closed" technology.

Getting back to the topic at hand, every year I pray that Steve Jobs' insight and vision keeps Apple at the top of the heap for innovation, elegance and ease of use...lest that dark day comes where all innovation is exhausted, the end of the line has come, and the "popular cheaper" format wins out totally over the truly superior product.

That's why, for my answer to this post topic, with due respect for The Wizard that is Woz, Steve Jobs is, truly, of greater significance.

[sford]

which part of the Peanutbutter and jam sandwhich is the most important ??? if you dont have them both it's not PB and Jam sandwhich.... just my 2 cents

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by sford
which part of the Peanutbutter and jam sandwhich is the most important ??? if you dont have them both it's not PB and Jam sandwhich.... just my 2 cents If you're not willing to use some bread, it won't matter how much Peanut Butter or Jelly you have -- all you can make is one big sticky mess without the bread.

[wdlove]

You guys are making me hungry with the PB&J sandwich, always a great standby. We owe our very nature to Steve and Woz! Now in a month it will be that PB&J already in a jar, just add the bread! We will see the culmination of their work! :)