Japan numbers for the gaming war, Nintendo leading all around...

[Haoshiro]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/753/753864p1.html

360 sales begin to pick up now that some good japanese software is getting released, but no competition for Sony or Nintendo.

Wii and DS are stomping the competition with close to triple the unit sales of PS3 and PSP in their respective markets.

I don't recall Sony being this far behind in the company home land in their history. PS1 and PS2 were top, and somehow just this early beginning of the new systems show Nintendo set to take back the position it hasn't held since the days of SNES.

If that isn't impressive I'm not sure what is.

[Coded-Dude]

Well, Sony shipped all their PS3's to the US, becasue that's where the real Next-gen battle will take place.
It launched a week earlier in Japan, but only recieved half as many units.
(although it did manage to do in one month, what it has taken xbox 360 to do in a year)

But, a cheaper console(with more availablity) shoudl obviously sell better in its home territory.

[MacRumorUser]

Microsoft sold more than 10 in a week :eek: wowsers :D

Yeah the figures are as I guess we all expected really. :)

[Haoshiro]

Well, Sony shipped all their PS3's to the US, becasue that's where the real Next-gen battle will take place.
It launched a week earlier in Japan, but only recieved half as many units.
(although it did manage to do in one month, what it has taken xbox 360 to do in a year)

But, a cheaper console(with more availablity) shoudl obviously sell better in its home territory.

While that may be true, Sony has always reaped huge profits from it's homeland and I very much doubt getting beat there is anything but bad for them.

The article also states Sony's target was 1M, and they didn't even manage half that. That can't be good for them either.

The last paragraph even notes it's not due to supply issues, as PS3s were found in stock at cheaper then MSRP prices.

On the other hand, this is nothing but good news for Nintendo. Looks like they are doing far better then even they anticipated.

[MacRumorUser]

On the other hand, this is nothing but good news for Nintendo. Looks like they are doing far better then even they anticipated.

Unprecidented success of DS over there, I'm surprised they didnt expect the same for the wii.

[Coded-Dude]

In all fairness, both consoles have just launched, so no-one is "beat" yet(except maybe for the 360 - in that territory alone of course)
The Ebay profit frenzy is over, although not many Japanese fell for it(while many Americans did - lol), and once they hit a price drop, PS3 sales will surge even more. Ninty on the other hand has to provide something to keep sales up. Not saying they won't, only that.....its easier to captivate an audience, than it is to keep them captivated.

On November 18th, Nintendo launched its long awaited GameCube video game console. With a sticker price of $199.95, GameCube became available at the lowest price Nintendo has ever launched a console (inflation adjusted). By some estimates, 310,000 of the 740,000 GameCubes available at launch were sold on the first day. By the end of the week, Nintendo reported sales of over half a million systems.

WE all knwo how that turned out.

[ChrisK018]

Sony had a three week head start too.

[BlizzardBomb]

In all fairness, both consoles have just launched, so no-one is "beat" yet(except maybe for the 360 - in that territory alone of course)
The Ebay profit frenzy is over, although not many Japanese fell for it(while many Americans did - lol), and once they hit a price drop, PS3 sales will surge even more. Ninty on the other hand has to provide something to keep sales up. Not saying they won't, only that.....its easier to captivate an audience, than it is to keep them captivated.

True, but Sony is already losing a massive amount on each PS3 made so I doubt they'd want to do a price drop any time soon.

[Phobophobia]

PS3 sales will surge even more. Ninty on the other hand has to provide something to keep sales up.
PS3: Low supply, low demand, no profit.
Wii: High supply, high demand, high profit.

[darkwing]

Japan is the #1 place in the world where new technology is put forth and the direction of industries are changed. Do Wii fans really feel that 90s technology is going to do that for them? :rolleyes:

IIRC, the only thing that really propelled the DS were all the kids and high school girls fawning over Nintendogs. Just like what propelled the GBC and GBA were kids and pokemon games.

I guess time will tell, but I still predict the PS3 being on top when all is said and done. :)

disclaimer: ps3 owner who will buy a Wii this summer most likely

[2nyRiggz]

I'm gald to see nintendo back in it and not "holding on"...good for them. I hope we don't ever have another Sega dropout again.



Bless

[zero2dash]

Japan is the #1 place in the world where new technology is put forth and the direction of industries are changed. Do Wii fans really feel that 90s technology is going to do that for them? :rolleyes:

You don't know the Japanese gaming culture, do you?
Do you think Japanese people care about graphics over gameplay that your Ps3 offers?

Take into consideration that Japanese gamers primarily consist of DS and Gameboy players for one. Secondly, they play anything from minigame/board game titles to train simulators to hentai shooters. Dragon Quest (which has less FMV than any Final Fantasy title) is the #1 rpg in Japan.

So - let's go over this once again.
Do you think they care about (what you claim to be) "90s technology"?
[Which in itself is incorrect considering that the Gamecube came out in 2001 and the controller technology didn't exist until recently.]

Keep on' drinking Ed's koolaid with the "Ps3 is the fu7ur3" talk. :rolleyes:

[MacRumorUser]

Japan is the #1 place in the world where new technology is put forth and the direction of industries are changed. Do Wii fans really feel that 90s technology is going to do that for them? :rolleyes:


This is true.

But remember the PSX media centre hybrid died flat on its face in Japan, the place where they usually devour all new technology. Have sony learned from this, no they are introducing PSX2.

If the Japanese consumers have nothing but apathy for an over priced playstation media centre, which was a major embarassment when it fell flat on its face at retail, why do sony bother announcing PSX2, and not just concentrate on getting some supply issues sorted.

So in fairness, do Sony have a clue what Japanese consumers want ? Sales figures could be used to prove otherwise ;)


The DS is a phenominum in Japan and has take on a whole cultural symbology of it's own, and of course that means what-ever nintendo released would benefit. The DS has proved the Japanese like the touchy / feely / share with others aproach to gaming, and the 360 has proved that graphics in Japan mean very little compared to the west. Nintendo like it or not are onto a winner in Japan.

[darkwing]

You don't know the Japanese gaming culture, do you?
Do you think Japanese people care about graphics over gameplay that your Ps3 offers?

Take into consideration that Japanese gamers primarily consist of DS and Gameboy players for one. Secondly, they play anything from minigame/board game titles to train simulators to hentai shooters. Dragon Quest (which has less FMV than any Final Fantasy title) is the #1 rpg in Japan.

So - let's go over this once again.
Do you think they care about (what you claim to be) "90s technology"?
[Which in itself is incorrect considering that the Gamecube came out in 2001 and the controller technology didn't exist until recently.]

Keep on' drinking Ed's koolaid with the "Ps3 is the fu7ur3" talk. :rolleyes:

Ever been to Japan? Ever hang out with Japanese people? My Japanese co-workers (in japan) lined up for ps3s and many own a 360 as well. My Japanese friends at school have been talking about the ps3 for a long time. It's what excites them.

I'll let you all know what I see over there when I get back from Japan in 2 weeks.

[darkwing]

The DS is a phenominum in Japan and has take on a whole cultural symbology of it's own, and of course that means what-ever nintendo released would benefit. The DS has proved the Japanese like the touchy / feely / share with others aproach to gaming, and the 360 has proved that graphics in Japan mean very little compared to the west. Nintendo like it or not are onto a winner in Japan.

Well, I think the 360's big problem is that it isn't a Japanese product. Why buy a 360 when you can wait a year and see what Nintendo and Sony put out? Makes no sense.

If the DS was a phenomenon that turned into Wii sales, then the same can be said for the PS2->PS3. I find it so amusing that people count the PS3 out so soon when everyone knows they had supply issues. I'd like to see where it stands in a year. What pisses me off the most about being a ps3 owner is that I have to wait 2 months from when I got the system in the middle of Dec until any new games come out that are worth buying. I'm going to ignore the Sonic one.

Agreed with the comment that Nintendo holding on would be good. I'd love to see them not become another Sega.

[MacRumorUser]

If the DS was a phenomenon that turned into Wii sales, then the same can be said for the PS2->PS3. I find it so amusing that people count the PS3 out so soon when everyone knows they had supply issues. I'd like to see where it stands in a year.

PS2 sold amazingly well, but that doesnt mean it automatically takes on as much cultural iconography.

The phenomenon of the DS is like Hello Kitty & AstroBoy of the games world.

PS2 was still a boy thing, entertainment device thing.
The DS is a girl / boy / man / woman / old / young thing and that is what seperates it, made it the phenomenon it has become and gives it such cultural identity.

Do I think Sony PS3 wont do very well ?, of course not. They will sell very well but like the PS2 I dont think it will break the barrier into pop culture that the Wii has a very good chance of doing on the back of the success of the DS.



As someone who blew his first year student grant on a PS1 launch, and bought a PS2 at launch, and a PSP at Jap launch, and will be buying a PS3. I dont have any vitriol or angst against the PS3, I just look at it with a more wider global understanding and as I spent time in Hong Kong & Japan, i do have some understanding of Asian cultural ideology.

[Coded-Dude]

True, but Sony is already losing a massive amount on each PS3 made so I doubt they'd want to do a price drop any time soon.
I agree, IMHO - I don't think we'll see a price drop until at least next March(08), if not longer.
Maybe some fancy bundles, but no real price drop(kind of like the PSP)

PS3: Low supply, low demand, no profit.
Wii: High supply, high demand, high profit.
Yes......thank you for re-iterating my point.
PS3 will be in higher supply this year, and very soon it will be in higher deman(maybe not until a price drop, but it WILL happen)
Wii, is already very competitively priced and while a price drop may help sells some, they probably won't SURGE like when the PS3 get a worhtwhile price drop.

This is why I said Ninty needs to do something to keep the crowd captivated.
Sure sales are high, but will they stay that way.....the GC is a perfect example of starting strong out of the gate, with mediocre performance in the long run.

I'm not saying Ninty can't/won't accomplish a victory in Japan(its most definately in reach)
I just think the PS3 will get hotter once it gets cheaper(and Wii is already cheap)
So what must Ninty do to keep their product "hot" as well?

[zero2dash]

Ever been to Japan? Ever hang out with Japanese people? My Japanese co-workers (in japan) lined up for ps3s and many own a 360 as well. My Japanese friends at school have been talking about the ps3 for a long time. It's what excites them.

I'll let you all know what I see over there when I get back from Japan in 2 weeks.

I know at least 5 people who have been to Japan (including one who's lived there for over 2 years now) in addition to the 20 or so Japanese people I've hung out with.

Your friends are the minority then because if you consider Japanese people uninterested in a product because (you claim it contains) outdated technology, then obviously the other 99% of Japan disagrees with you, considering how old the technology is in the Gameboy and DS line. What else...small developers are still releasing new Dreamcast games in Japan and that system is almost 8 years old.

This is why I said Ninty needs to do something to keep the crowd captivated.
Sure sales are high, but will they stay that way.....the GC is a perfect example of starting strong out of the gate, with mediocre performance in the long run.

Nintendo could release another 20 home consoles that finish in last place, and they'll still make money a) because their consoles turn a profit from day 1 and b) because they still have their portables to count on that always end up #1.

Nintendo doesn't need to do jack to keep anyone motivated. Other than aesthetics - have any of their portables really introduced much else? No.

Gameboy -> Gameboy Pocket: size
Gameboy Pocket -> Gameboy Color: color screen
Gameboy Advance -> Gameboy Advance SP: size, brighter screen
Gameboy Advance SP -> Gameboy Micro: size
DS -> DS Lite: brighter/slightly larger screen

Have the innards changed otherwise to reflect higher end graphics or better sound? Absolutely not.

Nintendo can rest on their laurels with the portables that they make and they'll still be the sales king.

[Coded-Dude]

I didn't realize being most profitable was the only deciding factor in who wins a "war."
Market share is also measuring tool, and in the Home Console market they were last.
(last-gen)

If Ninty wants to stay there thats fine......the will certainly continue to make money
(I never argued against that)
But I think they want to dominate the market as well.

PS3 will be able to cut a higher percentage of their overall console price, and sales will surge.
So what can Ninty do to keep Home Console sales up.

I love how you keep talking about gameboys, and while they will continue to sale they do not directly compete against the likes of PS3 and 360.
(as the Wii does)

[zero2dash]

I didn't realize being most profitable was the only deciding factor in who wins a "war."
Market share is also measuring tool, and in the Home Console market they were last.
(last-gen)

Gamecube was a market share bust because it had piss poor third party support; no surprise there. Nintendo probably really didn't care about market share with the Gamecube because they knew they had already lost.

If Ninty wants to stay there thats fine......the will certainly continue to make money
(I never argued against that)
But I think they want to dominate the market as well.

Many of Nintendo's execs (including Iwata and Reggie) have said the Wii is their plan to stay out of the "dangerous ocean with the sharks fighting for blood" (ie Sony and Microsoft), "there's enough ocean for everyone" (something along the lines of that).

PS3 will be able to cut a higher percentage of their overall console price, and sales will surge.

Nice speculation. :rolleyes: :D
Considering how much money they lose per console, don't hold your breath for a Ps3 price drop. Hell they haven't dropped the price of the PSP much at all and it's already had its rear handed to it five times over and they're still not dropping the price to help boost sales.

So what can Ninty do to keep Home Console sales up.

Get more third party support and strengthen that support. Simple as that. A lot of developers made Gamecube and N64 games for the first few years and then they left the 'party'. Nintendo has to keep those people around 'til last call this time around.

I love how you keep talking about gameboys, and while they will continue to sale they do not directly compete against the likes of PS3 and 360.
(as the Wii does)

The topic isn't about competing against one another, it's about console sales. Which is why I'm not talking about one against the others. From a technology standpoint - the Wii isn't competing with either of the other two consoles either because it isn't as feature rich as the competition. But hey, when you've got a world-reknowned in-house development team and a lot of industry buzz...you can compete with anyone.

[ChrisK018]

I love how you keep talking about gameboys, and while they will continue to sale they do not directly compete against the likes of PS3 and 360.(as the Wii does)

The success of the iPod factors into Apple's profits. You can add the PSP in too if you want. Maybe the Zune?

The thread title says "Nintendo leading all around," with no cherry picking.

[Coded-Dude]

Microsoft have yet to make a profit in this "gaming war."
And - Its far easier for Ninty to make the most profit(in the gaming war), and if you don't know why, I'm not going to bother.
But profits don't win "battles" Market share does.
(which is why Sony won the last-gen home console battle)

MS are one of the most profitable companies in the world, I guess they win the gaming war hands down eh?

[zero2dash]

Microsoft have yet to make a profit in this "gaming war."
And - Its far easier for Ninty to make the most profit(in the gaming war), and if you don't know why, I'm not going to bother.
But profits don't win "battles" Market share does.
(which is why Sony won the last-gen home console battle)

MS are one of the most profitable companies in the world, I guess they win the gaming war hands down eh?

Do you just pull OT posts out of nowhere anytime someone says something about Sony that you disagree with? WTF :rolleyes:

Way to stay on topic there bud. :cool:
[Note to self: ignore Coded-Dude, darkwing, and Ed H who are all drunk from the Sony koolaid]

[BlizzardBomb]

I didn't realize being most profitable was the only deciding factor in who wins a "war."
Market share is also measuring tool, and in the Home Console market they were last.
(last-gen)


Why is everyone making it sound like the GC lost by billions? I'm pretty sure it was something like 22 million GCs sold against 24 million Xboxes sold which after 5 years or so, is a pretty small difference.

Not exactly sticking up for the GC though, it could have been so much better if there was some decent third-party support, but saying that it did have a few great exclusives and some "exclusives" which were eventually ported.

[Chone]

I'll just say something...

Its not hard to outsell a console that Japanese really don't like (Japan thinks of Xbox much like MacRumors users think of Microsoft ;) ) AND its not hard to outsell a console that has 4 times less units and supply shortages.

Its not surprising, even if the PS3 completely solded out, the Wii would still have won. I'm not surprised, especially considering how popular Nintend is in Japan, especially compared to Microsoft.

[Coded-Dude]

xbox sold something like 35 million globally(I think)

Z2D...then can we check those numbers again, cause last I check PS2 is still the leading home console.
Which would make the thread title wrong.

NOTE TO SELF: be reserved when posting in Apple forums, they are full of MS fans.....
Gamecube was a market share bust because it had piss poor third party support; no surprise there. Nintendo probably really didn't care about market share with the Gamecube because they knew they had already lost.
See.....NOW we are finally starting to speak the same language.
Ninty most definately needs to do SOMETHING to keep crowds captivated.
Its what I've been saying the entire time. Now, instead of ranting you are starting to answer with legitimate answers.
*instead of Ninty don't need to do ****, they are gonna make a profit regardless*

btw - I'm no more off topic than anybody else.
PS2 is now less than half its launch price...are you allegeing PS3 will not see such significant reductions
(as the hardware becomes cheper to manufacture)

[Dagless]

Quick, damage control time Sony Fanboys!

Incredible how now Sony's biggest rival in Japan is actually doing better (or for a very long time with the DS Lite) and suddenly it's a mountain of excuses other than it's a simply a better system for more people.

Going going Ninty. It was obvious they were onto something, they've single handedly changed gaming in my house just as it hit me back in the 1980's.
I wonder if that's an Xbox Live achievement?

[Coded-Dude]

Incredible how now Sony's biggest rival in Japan is actually doing better (or for a very long time with the DS Lite) and suddenly it's a mountain of excuses other than it's a simply a better system for more people.

Who's arguing which is better, and where are all these excuses?

[darkwing]

Do you just pull OT posts out of nowhere anytime someone says something about Sony that you disagree with? WTF :rolleyes:

Way to stay on topic there bud. :cool:
[Note to self: ignore Coded-Dude, darkwing, and Ed H who are all drunk from the Sony koolaid]

Zero's going to ignore us because he can't have an intelligent conversation. :(

[Dagless]

Who's arguing which is better, and where are all these excuses?

Your new, so I'll forgive you but do not remove names from people you quote. It makes it hard to see who's been quoted. normally the name is automatically entered too...

Whos arguing which is better or excuses? The Sony camp perhaps?
Darkwing saying the GBA/DS did well because of Pokemon and Nintendogs (well frig me, you mean to say games sell a system?)
You basically said yourself that this should be disregarded as "both machines have just launched". You know, like the PS2 launched to a rabid crowd, along with the PS1, DS Lite, SNES... Oh look what happened there! Also the Wii smashed all launch records in the UK that the 360 or PSP (can't remember which, wasn't a Nintendo machine) held previously. good launch. extremely good launch.


I could have saved a few minutes of my life writing this if you didn't act so blind CD.

If we are going to drop to pointless arguing once again, rather than wonder that maybe Nintendo hit the right note for most people...
- the most powerful machine never won a console generation.
- the most expensive machine never won a console generation.
- machines over £400 have always flopped in the UK (think its the same in America, CD-i, 3DO, Jaguar etc.)
- every attempt at Sony to bring media into the fray has resulted badly, PSX, PSP. that's 1/2 of Sony consoles because they needlessly cost a lot more than their competition... oh wait!
See. It's so fun isn't it :rolleyes:

[zap2]

Well, Sony shipped all their PS3's to the US, becasue that's where the real Next-gen battle will take place.



If Sony is giving up in Japan, then they are stupid. However I don't think they are giving up...Nintendo is just pulling ahead



shoudl obviously sell better in its home territory.


Good to know your thoughts on that...but what does that have to do with PS3/PSP vs Wii/DS because as I'm sure you know both Sony and Nintendo are companies started in Japan!

[Coded-Dude]

Semantics buddy.......

PSP STILL has the record for a "console" launch in the UK with 185k
DS launched with 87k, it was the previous owner of said record.
Wii became the fastest selling "home console" in the UK with 105k
360 launched with 70k, it was the previous "home console" record owner

To argue that one "next-gen" system has beaten another when two of the 3 have only been out for one month is rather absurd - is all i'm saying.
Dreamcast had HUGE launch sales and was out a year before PS2, and PS2 had jsut as much if not more negative publicity.
The rest as they say is history, so don't assume Ninty will remain number one(in sales)

I am not arguing who will win, or who is better. The topic is Nintendo is "currently" on top, and I want to know what you guys think needs to be done to stay there.

DS is a great system and will have its place in history(as will the Wii)
But I think Ninty needs a different strategy for their "home console" market, in order to maintain a Marker Share lead.....not just a profit lead.

btw - from now on I will add the user/source I quoted(my apologies)
Sony didn't give up in Japan - they are merely confident they will sell well there regardless.
They are in DIRECT competition with MS and MS is a NA company and MS took most of their Market Share from Sony in said territory.
As well all pretty much agree Wii is NOT in direct competition, so for Sony to go after the NA market first was smart - IMHO

[Haoshiro]

I think the one thing a lot of people who are mentioning "but Sony had supply issues" are missing is that even in the article I posted it was noted there is stock of PS3s on store shelves around the world.

That isn't because they have as much supply as 360 (I know people like to say "but 360 does too").

The bad sales of PS3 (lower then Sony's projections for both USA and Japan) are not because of supply problems, but rather demand issues.

I really wanted to get a Wii, I actually have an extra controller and Zelda for it and have now for many weeks. But I simply cannot find a Wii anywhere, stores tell me they sell out early in the morning every time they get stock.

In contrast, I have seen 60GB PS3 systems in at least 5 stores, I still see them in stock recently at places like Wal-Mart. But no Wiis.

Now consider that Nintendo is producing MORE units FASTER then Sony, and selling them all. But Sony is producing LESS and they are not getting sold.

If that doesn't tell everyone that there is far more demand for Wii then for PS3 then nothing will, that's just plain to see.

[Mac'Mo]

Why does everyone assume Sony is going to lower the price of the PS3? I dont know if you guys are aware of Sony's financial situation, but all their other sectors are losing money and they're banking on the PS3 to bring them back into profitability. Considering they're already losing money at PS3's current price point, why would they lower it further?

[Coded-Dude]

Do you grasp manufacturing processes? If so, you probably wouldn't have made statement.
Its almost understood that a console maker will take a hit on their console early.
With software licensing, sales, and eventual improvements in hardware production, costs go down.
Sony took a hit on PS1 and PS2 as well, but over time began to make money.
The same will happen with PS3. Do you honestly think its going to cost $600 in 6 years?

SCE is Sony's most profitable division, so I wouldn't be quick to dismiss their strategies.
(they seem to have a solid grasp on what they are doing)

PS2 is less than half of what it originally cost........

[BlizzardBomb]

xbox sold something like 35 million globally(I think)


Really? (http://www.xbox.com/zh-SG/community/news/2006/20060510.htm) If the Xbox sold more in about half a year than the 360 has in a year, I'd be surprised.

Xbox gamers have even more to celebrate. With more than 825 Xbox games available and more than 24 million Xbox consoles sold worldwide, the community of Xbox gamers continue to have superb videogame experiences.

[SpankyPenzaanz]

PS2 is less than half of what it originally cost........

So on that logic in about 4-6 years the ps3 will be under $250 and $300 respectively

[Mac'Mo]

Im not saying that the PS3 won't drop in price EVENTUALLY. I'm saying people are predicting it soon, and i dont think it'll happen within the next 6 months at least

[MacRumorUser]

getting sick and tired of all these threads turning into flaming fanboy arguments, and its the same individuals every time.

I think a time-out ban on some individuals and heavy moderating may be in order if every thread continues to spiral into this juvenile bickering :mad:

[Coded-Dude]

So on that logic in about 4-6 years the ps3 will be under $250 and $300 respectively

Not not necessarily. DVD was already out when PS2 launched, and while it was still somewhat "new," Blu-Ray has NEVER been manufactured before. PS3 manufacturing will get considerably cheaper in the next 2 years. Not saying they will make it as cheap as possible as fast as possible. Sony are taking a bigger hit per console, so you might see a relatively higher pricepoint a little longer(than say PS2 was) But you will MOST DEFINITELY see a few decent price drops.

[Haoshiro]

I don't think anyone is arguing the price will go down, but something that is going to happen in 2+ years time doesn't change the picture now, and just puts Sony much MUCH further behind.

I guess the argument is that even if Sony is 2-3 years behind and their market penetration is lower then the competitors, as soon as the price drops $100-200 they will have a sudden surge in sales that will send them flying to the top of the market.

But somehow that just seems unlikely, the further PS3 gets behind on it's estimates (and thus, marketshare) the more developers will move software and exclusives to other systems, which won't make PS3 more attractive even at a price cut.

More realistically, PS3 is going to have to catch on fire this year and eclipse the competition at it's current price point in order to retain it's market leadership in the home console business. If they don't manage to show off a leadership position in 12-18 months I'm not sure why anyone would think they would become the long-term leader/winner. The industry, at that point, would be working against them. With primary development of third party games taking place on other platforms (bad for Sony), and the majority of third-party exclusives either going multi-platform (more likely) or exclusive to the current leader (also bad for Sony).

[Coded-Dude]

Really? (http://www.xbox.com/zh-SG/community/news/2006/20060510.htm) If the Xbox sold more in about half a year than the 360 has in a year, I'd be surprised.

I'm having a little difficulty understanding the point of this post......
I was saying I believed xbox sold 35 million globably in its lifetime.
What are you trying to say?

[Coded-Dude]

I don't think anyone is arguing the price will go down, but something that is going to happen in 2+ years time doesn't change the picture now, and just puts Sony much MUCH further behind.

I guess the argument is that even if Sony is 2-3 years behind and their market penetration is lower then the competitors, as soon as the price drops $100-200 they will have a sudden surge in sales that will send them flying to the top of the market.

But somehow that just seems unlikely, the further PS3 gets behind on it's estimates (and thus, marketshare) the more developers will move software and exclusives to other systems, which won't make PS3 more attractive even at a price cut.

More realistically, PS3 is going to have to catch on fire this year and eclipse the competition at it's current price point in order to retain it's market leadership in the home console business. If they don't manage to show off a leadership position in 12-18 months I'm not sure why anyone would think they would become the long-term leader/winner. The industry, at that point, would be working against them. With primary development of third party games taking place on other platforms (bad for Sony), and the majority of third-party exclusives either going multi-platform (more likely) or exclusive to the current leader (also bad for Sony).

Most analyst are predicting by 2009 Sony will have the lead again, and surprisingly enough - once NPD numbers are released I believe we are going to see that Sony's PS3 launch outsold Microsofts' 360 launch......

[BlizzardBomb]

I'm having a little difficulty understanding the point of this post......
I was saying I believed xbox sold 35 million globably in its lifetime.
What are you trying to say?

It sold 24 million at May 2006. So there's almost no way it could've sold 35 million by now. ;)

[Coded-Dude]

It sold 24 million at May 2006. So there's almost no way it could've sold 35 million by now. ;)


gotchya....thx - I wasn't exactly sure so it was a rough estimate. :rolleyes:

[darkwing]

Whos arguing which is better or excuses? The Sony camp perhaps?
Darkwing saying the GBA/DS did well because of Pokemon and Nintendogs (well frig me, you mean to say games sell a system?)
You basically said yourself that this should be disregarded as "both machines have just launched". You know, like the PS2 launched to a rabid crowd, along with the PS1, DS Lite, SNES... Oh look what happened there! Also the Wii smashed all launch records in the UK that the 360 or PSP (can't remember which, wasn't a Nintendo machine) held previously. good launch. extremely good launch.

I didn't say that in a negative way. I was trying to put reason as to why the sales were so good.

And anybody who thinks the PS3 has more demand than a Wii right now is off their nut. The Wii has word of mouth selling it because it's a fun party toy. The PS3 only really has RFOM to talk about right now, and that isn't enough to sell a system alone.

A year from now I think the Wii will be starting to look like a gamecube though. I love my cube, and I'm sure I'll love my Wii... but 99% of my game time will be with my ps3. :)

[Dagless]

Most analyst are predicting by 2009 Sony will have the lead again, and surprisingly enough - once NPD numbers are released I believe we are going to see that Sony's PS3 launch outsold Microsofts' 360 launch......

I didn't follow the 360 launch, but wasn't that released in all territories within a few months? and have more initial stock to begin with?

[Coded-Dude]

Yes(in a sense)

607,441 sales reported by NPD for 360 in December/January launch
58,267 sales in Japan in the month of December (there were like 100k available I believe)
It was like 300k at launch with 500k by end of the year in Europe(but I don't know these numbers exactly - except that they did sell out)

[Haoshiro]

Coded-Dude: There are some other threads that have full sales numbers posted. I specifically set the thread title to "gaming war" not "home console war" because I was also including handheld systems (DS/PSP).

There is no arguing with the numbers when handhelds are considered, Nintendo is and has always been leading. Now "all around" in the title might have been a point of contention, what I meant by that was to infer "total" sales, not that it is leading specific hardware segments.

Nintendo has not lead "home consoles" specifically for some time, but if you include both home console and handheld sales they have been the dominate player in the "gaming" market in general. Add to that the fact the portable market is far more profitable then home consoles, iirc, and you have a much stronger Nintendo then most people realize, or is portrayed in the media.

Nintendo, thus far, seems to have been able to take a success in the handheld market and move that same momentum into home consoles with Wii. It's true we don't know if they will keep interest high, but DS was able to and it'd didn't require 3-year development timeframes and AAA+ $50M games to do it. Games like "Cooking Mama" are simple and what has kept the system fresh and successful.

Sony on the other hand hasn't been as successful (in comparison) in doing the opposite, turning massive PS1/PS2 success into a successful handheld. It's definitely not been a failure, but as a competitor for DS, especially in Japan, it just isn't there.

Talking about the future is pure speculation, but can be fun. I wouldn't be surprised of PS3 comes out on top of the market this generation, but if they don't do it soon and at their current price point I don't think a price cut will redeem them. Wii has pretty much been a wild card, one that has so far had more success then nearly everyone thought, even Nintendo themselves.

[Coded-Dude]

agreed......:D

[Sky Blue]

Hardware sales for US for December:

HW Sales (month and LTD)
Nintendo DS 1.6 mm 9.2 mm
PS2 1.4 mm 37.1 mm
GBA 850.7 K 35.1 mm
Xbox 360 1.1 mm 4.5 mm
Wii 604.2 K 1.1 mm
PSP 953.2 K 6.7 mm
PS3 490.7 K 687.3 K

[Coded-Dude]

Is that NPD numbers?

[Sky Blue]

yup

[MacRumorUser]

360 did 1.1 million :eek:

[Coded-Dude]

Ninty and Sony both pushed about 3 million units.....thats impressive.

[zero2dash]

Zero's going to ignore us because he can't have an intelligent conversation. :(

LMFAO :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night; your posts are worth ignoring because all you can do is heavily favor the Ps3 with no base or reason, and when someone else points out the shortcomings and problems with the console (whereas the competition excels in those areas), you choose to ignore it like nothing was ever said. When you no longer garner attention with your fanboy ramblings, eventually maybe you'll have intelligent conversation yourself. I think I can openly talk about consoles and not result in flamewars or fanboy BS more than you do and I think a lot of the other level headed members on these forums would agree with that statement as well. :cool:

But keep denying the facts, please. I don't need to say much to retort to your posts; you do a good enough job at showcasing your abilities on your own. :rolleyes:

[Haoshiro]

LMFAO :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night; your posts are worth ignoring because all you can do is heavily favor the Ps3 with no base or reason, and when someone else points out the shortcomings and problems with the console (whereas the competition excels in those areas), you choose to ignore it like nothing was ever said. When you no longer garner attention with your fanboy ramblings, eventually maybe you'll have intelligent conversation yourself. I think I can openly talk about consoles and not result in flamewars or fanboy BS more than you do and I think a lot of the other level headed members on these forums would agree with that statement as well. :cool:

But keep denying the facts, please. I don't need to say much to retort to your posts; you do a good enough job at showcasing your abilities on your own. :rolleyes:

Personally I've been able to have plenty of reasonable and intelligent discourse with darkwing, that might be in part that I don't over-react in a harsh and belittling reply any time he has a pro-PS3 comment in his posts.

I generally agree with what you say in your posts, but you can come off rather... mean and write them in flamewar attack-esque way. It's better to counter a persons points then to aim comments directly at them and fire off accusations. Don't fight with people, just counter the arguments. If that doesn't work, still don't fight with them.

Plenty of people have said their posts are based on their own opinion, and on subjects where all people have is opinion you're not likely to prove otherwise. For example, if he thinks PS3 will come out on top and demonstrate it's superiority. Well we don't know what will happen, we could explain why we think that is unlikely to happen, but at the end of the day he doesn't have to accept that as something that will effect the outcome he expects. The best you can do is state your opinion and back them up, rather then fight with a poster of what they believe about the future.

[evilgEEk]

Hardware sales for US for December:

HW Sales (month and LTD)

Wii - 604.2 K - 1.1 mm

Wow, I wonder what those numbers would have been had they been able to keep up with demand!

[Dagless]

Wow, I wonder what those numbers would have been had they been able to keep up with demand!

Aye. It's mad in the UK. I've never seen a device this out of stock, couple that with all the folk I know (mostly non-gamers!) who want the thing it's just crazy. One girl who had never played a game before wanted Wii Sports, even wanted to buy one for her brother and ship it off to Poland AND buy one for her boyfriend! How is stock doing in the US? can you guys just not get hold of them too?

[Sky Blue]

I haven't seen any since I got mine on launch day, i haven't even seen any nunchucks ever, and in my past month of searching for nunchucks/classic controller I've only seen remotes in one store.
I haven't seen many DS Lites since Christmas, but i haven't been looking too closely as I already have. PS3's are becoming fairly easy to spot, I saw 2 in a target on sunday and 1 in an EB games.

[pcypert]

Weird...I was just up at the major gaming mall here in Bangkok and there were tons of Japanese, Singapore, Hong Kong etc folks snatching up modded 360's. There are tons of Wiis over here sitting on shelves as well as PS3's. I've seen more people in the past month buying Xbox 360's than anything else. Well, that and DS lites. Of course they are buying those. Maybe Blue Dragon is helping after all or something.

But I was peeved because I'm finally getting a 360 of my own and they only had one available last night...compared to about 20 Wiis and who knows how many PS3's...boxes everywhere....

Paul

[RichP]

If we are going to drop to pointless arguing once again, rather than wonder that maybe Nintendo hit the right note for most people...
- the most powerful machine never won a console generation.
- the most expensive machine never won a console generation.
- machines over £400 have always flopped in the UK (think its the same in America, CD-i, 3DO, Jaguar etc.)


Spot on. The $500 pricepoint here is a tough one. A PS3 almost becomes a 1K investment with controllers and games. $500 into a wii and you get a lot more for your money.

PS3 is too expensive, and has no "Killer Apps" that they should use to support the franchise. xbox has Halo, Nintendo has Zelda and Mario. Personally, I need to play whatever Zelda comes out, even if I need a new console to do it. And that approach gets me in the door with the console. If sony had a real kickass game selection at launch (I love GT) then I would I would have considered getting one.

PS3 was sold on tech hype and BlueRay. There are few PS3 games out that are hot, and Blueray movies cost a fortune compared to DVD. Why should I get a PS3 then?