PDA

View Full Version : AirPort Extreme - no Gigabit Ethernet?? WTF!?


MacVault
Jan 11, 2007, 12:08 PM
Who's dumba$$ idea was it at Apple to not put Gigabit ethernet ports on the new Airport Extreme? I just can't beleive it! Is it (http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/specs.html) just a typo? Or is slower speed really the "in thing" now days??? WTF?! Apple won't be getting my money for that thing. Man, what a Fvq3d Up MacWorld Keynote. :mad:

Oh, and the USB hard drive sharing feature is a nice touch but it better not be Apple's solution to the home server need.

RichP
Jan 11, 2007, 12:14 PM
It has to by a typo, right? If it was not, that means the wired ethernet ports are slower than the wireless connection!

sikkinixx
Jan 11, 2007, 12:18 PM
maybe it is a way of trying to push you into wireless?

thefunkymunky
Jan 11, 2007, 12:23 PM
The AppleTV wotist doesn't have Gigabit ethernet either. :eek:

Having said that, Apple is not the only manufacturer to have a router that supports the faster wireless but still only has 10/100 ethernet on it.

MacVault
Jan 11, 2007, 12:26 PM
The AppleTV wotist doesn't have Gigabit ethernet either. :eek:

Having said that, Apple is not the only manufacturer to have a router that supports the faster wireless but still only has 10/100 ethernet on it.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for this CRAP! What good is Gigabit on the new Macs if the router Apple sells is only 10/100?? WTF! I almost don't beleive it! I'm trying to convince myself it's a type but I know it's not :mad:

The last 30 years were just the beginning. Welcome to 2007 - where we make products that are 90% awsome and 50% halfA$$-STUPID!

Sam0r
Jan 11, 2007, 12:35 PM
What?! Seriously? So they upgrade every mac with gigabit ethernet, but don't support it in their networking equipment.

Clever!

clintob
Jan 11, 2007, 12:37 PM
Whoa people, hang on, hang on...

1) I agree Gigabit ethernet would be nice, of course. But keep in mind that Gigabit (although included on MacPro's) it's still a VERY sparsely used technology in home networks and the Airport is a home networking device. It's not meant for setting up major networks with Gigabit switches, etc.

2) The price point of the Airport ($175) is pretty darn low for a multi-port router that also allows printer/hard drive sharing and Pre-N support.

3) Also, since we're on the subject, we should probably stop dealing in theoreticals. In theory, 802.11n has all kinds of potential but in practice most reviewers and users have reported that its speeds are pretty much in line with what they get out of wired 10/100 networks. So before we jump around screaming that the wired will be slower than the wireless, let's be real. In practice, the two will probably be identical - about 100Mbps.

No, it's not Gigabit, and I would LOVE that as much as anyone. But one thing at a time...

tdhurst
Jan 11, 2007, 12:41 PM
Whoa people, hang on, hang on...

1) I agree Gigabit ethernet would be nice, of course. But keep in mind that Gigabit (although included on MacPro's) it's still a VERY sparsely used technology in home networks and the Airport is a home networking device. It's not meant for setting up major networks with Gigabit switches, etc.

2) The price point of the Airport ($175) is pretty darn low for a multi-port router that also allows printer/hard drive sharing and Pre-N support.

3) Also, since we're on the subject, we should probably stop dealing in theoreticals. In theory, 802.11n has all kinds of potential but in practice most reviewers and users have reported that its speeds are pretty much in line with what they get out of wired 10/100 networks. So before we jump around screaming that the wired will be slower than the wireless, let's be real. In practice, the two will probably be identical - about 100Mbps.

No, it's not Gigabit, and I would LOVE that as much as anyone. But one thing at a time...

Very well put and I agree completely. Nice job.

flopticalcube
Jan 11, 2007, 12:41 PM
I agree. Consumer product for the home market, although all Macs now have gigabit ether, not just the pros. Also since USB 2.0 maxs out at about 240Mbps it is not much of an inconvenience not having 1G ether.

Perhaps we will see an APExt Pro later in the year?

MacVault
Jan 11, 2007, 12:43 PM
Whoa people, hang on, hang on...

1) I agree Gigabit ethernet would be nice, of course. But keep in mind that Gigabit (although included on MacPro's) it's still a VERY sparsely used technology in home networks and the Airport is a home networking device. It's not meant for setting up major networks with Gigabit switches, etc....

Gigabit ethernet is not only on the MacPro. It's on every Mac Apple makes now - iMac, MacBook, Macbook Pro, MacPro. Now what good is it if I buy the new AirPort Extreme?

Oh, and as for home networks... with all the video, music, etc being done in the home now days, and as cheap as Gigabit is, there should be nothing less that GIGABIT - Yes, even in home networks!

Sam0r
Jan 11, 2007, 12:44 PM
Whoa people, hang on, hang on...

1) I agree Gigabit ethernet would be nice, of course. But keep in mind that Gigabit (although included on MacPro's) it's still a VERY sparsely used technology in home networks and the Airport is a home networking device. It's not meant for setting up major networks with Gigabit switches, etc.

2) The price point of the Airport ($175) is pretty darn low for a multi-port router that also allows printer/hard drive sharing and Pre-N support.

3) Also, since we're on the subject, we should probably stop dealing in theoreticals. In theory, 802.11n has all kinds of potential but in practice most reviewers and users have reported that its speeds are pretty much in line with what they get out of wired 10/100 networks. So before we jump around screaming that the wired will be slower than the wireless, let's be real. In practice, the two will probably be identical - about 100Mbps.

No, it's not Gigabit, and I would LOVE that as much as anyone. But one thing at a time...

I think you're missing the point here..

The point is that every mac now comes with gigabit ethernet, but they won't be able to use it unless they buy a third party network switch/hub.

Also the point of it being able to share a hard drive over the network is let down slightly by the lack of gigabit ethernet.

And AFAIK it only has three ports, it can't be THAT much more expencive to upgrade them to gigabit ports.

MacVault
Jan 11, 2007, 12:49 PM
I can't beleive some of you guys saying 10/100 is ok for home networks. It just is NOT! Period. Do you think the HP Windows Home Server will have 10/100? NO WAY. It will have Gigabit! Why? Because more and more home users are dealing with huge multi-gigabyte video/movie files, music files, photos, network attached storage, etc.

tdhurst
Jan 11, 2007, 12:54 PM
I can currently stream (via iTunes sharing) a video from my 500mhz iMac, connected via ethernet to a linksys voip router, in turn connected to an Airport Express, which my powerbook connects to wirelessly.

I really don't see all the issues so many people have predicted.

iW00t
Jan 11, 2007, 12:56 PM
There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for this CRAP! What good is Gigabit on the new Macs if the router Apple sells is only 10/100?? WTF! I almost don't beleive it! I'm trying to convince myself it's a type but I know it's not :mad:

The last 30 years were just the beginning. Welcome to 2007 - where we make products that are 90% awsome and 50% halfA$$-STUPID!

It is times like this when I will just want to :rolleyes: and give the usual piece on this...

"We've done extensive studies and found that most consumers do not require this feature."

They use the same excuse to explain why the iMac is non user upgradeable, why it didn't have a user adjustable height, etc etc... it sure as hell would work here :rolleyes:

aswitcher
Jan 12, 2007, 12:06 AM
Its a bit annoying but I dont see this as a major issue.

My question is, where is the ethernet version that doesn't need power?

I actually thought Apple should have put the optical audio out into these new base stations to push up their adoption. I know I will be putting at least one where I would have liked to have audio out as well for speakers.

maverick808
Jan 12, 2007, 12:26 AM
Whoa people, hang on, hang on...

1) I agree Gigabit ethernet would be nice, of course. But keep in mind that Gigabit (although included on MacPro's) it's still a VERY sparsely used technology in home networks and the Airport is a home networking device. It's not meant for setting up major networks with Gigabit switches, etc.

More people have gigabit Ethernet than have 802.11n, so are you saying Apple shouldn't be bothering with 802.11n?

Furthermore, how many people even have Internet connections that reach 802.11g (54mbps) speeds? Hell, most people don't even have Internet connections that match 802.11b (11mbps) speeds. So people aren't buying these things so that their Internet connections are faster. Surely, you buy them to transfer data between machines on the local network? I would imagine a typical Airport Extreme buyer would have maybe one desktop machine and one laptop. They want copying from the desktop to the laptop to be as fast as possible. With a desktop wired to the Airport Extreme such a copy is now going to be half the speed the wireless is capable of AT BEST, because the wired connection has become an unnecessary bottleneck.

Sorry, but I think that situation is just stupid.

Philoman
Jan 12, 2007, 12:44 AM
I can't beleive some of you guys saying 10/100 is ok for home networks. It just is NOT! Period. Do you think the HP Windows Home Server will have 10/100? NO WAY. It will have Gigabit! Why? Because more and more home users are dealing with huge multi-gigabyte video/movie files, music files, photos, network attached storage, etc.

I agree with MacVault. Faster networking will benefit everyone. Just because you are a home user, you will only be transferring under 10MBs? And just because you are a home user, you can afford to wait longer time to copy/tranfer. Gigabit networking is very affordable. D-Link DGL-4300 Wireless router with 4 gigabit port sells for less than $135.

Apple is an innovator and a leader of technology. I was excited to see the new router including the latest 802.11n technology. Then they leave the wired networking to 10/100. They forgot to do some marketing study. Users have wireless and wired networking in their homes and small offices.

It really is a short coming from Apple from a marketing point of view. Only if they would have included the gigabit port, it would have been a fine product that would satisfy a much wider range of customers. I surely would buy one. I have a gigabit ethernet router that I got 1 year ago. After a year later, I will definitely not go backwards.

apfhex
Jan 12, 2007, 12:51 AM
My question is, where is the ethernet version that doesn't need power?
Hell yeah, PoE baby. A friend has been waiting to see PoE devices become popular for a while now.

But indeed, WTF, in reply to the OP. My 5 year old PowerBook has gigabit ethernet. Why in the world would Apple not include it on the new AirPort Extreme?

Wild-Bill
Jan 12, 2007, 01:07 AM
I can't beleive some of you guys saying 10/100 is ok for home networks. It just is NOT! Period. Do you think the HP Windows Home Server will have 10/100? NO WAY. It will have Gigabit! Why? Because more and more home users are dealing with huge multi-gigabyte video/movie files, music files, photos, network attached storage, etc.

It does. I read the specs on pcmag. The HP Home Server will have gigabit, as it should.

There is no excuse for Apple omitting gigabit ethernet from this router. The first thing I said to myself when I read the specs was "What? No gigabit?!?!" Shame on you Apple!!! SHame!:mad:

iW00t
Jan 12, 2007, 01:11 AM
I just placed an order for mine.

Gigabit ethernet or not it is still cheaper than what I paid 6 months ago for that Netgear piece of **** which reboots every now and then. At least here I know I am getting "Apple quality", for less money, and more features (USB hub print + file share).

TheSailerMan
Jan 15, 2007, 06:54 PM
I can see how no gigabit ethernet port would be a problem for some, but that's why you can buy other (likely more expensive) wireless routers WITH gigabit ethernet ports.

My dad just ordered an APE earlier this week, and the lack of gigabit ethernet ports won't be a problem for us. Everyone except me runs on a wireless connection, and I have an original Mac mini (which doesn't have gigabit ethernet).

maverick808
Jan 15, 2007, 07:45 PM
I can see how no gigabit ethernet port would be a problem for some, but that's why you can buy other (likely more expensive) wireless routers WITH gigabit ethernet ports.

Like this one from Netgear, it has gigabit ports...?

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/specs.aspx?EDC=969472

Oh wait, no that's cheaper. Okay, how about Linksys...?

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRT350N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Storage/dp/B000H96IN2

Oops, cheaper again.

Peace
Jan 15, 2007, 07:47 PM
Like this one from Netgear, it has gigabit ports...?

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/specs.aspx?EDC=969472

Oh wait, no that's cheaper. Okay, how about Linksys...?

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRT350N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Storage/dp/B000H96IN2

Oops, cheaper again.

Out of curosity can you connect a USB printer and a HD to those routers?

guess you can but it's for windows only and looks really ugly..

xUKHCx
Jan 15, 2007, 07:47 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRT350N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Storage/dp/B000H96IN2
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000H96IN2.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_V59123211_.jpg


That is one scary looking router.

maverick808
Jan 15, 2007, 07:50 PM
I agree, it does look kind of mad. I doubt you can attach a printer. Maybe you can attach disk drives since the tech specs say...

Product Features

Four devices in one: Internet-sharing Router, 4-port Gigabit Switch, speed- and range-enhanced Wireless Access Point, and built-in Media Server

Storage Link feature lets you easily add gigabytes of storage, while Media Server streams media from an attached storage device to any UPnP compatible media adapter

mkrishnan
Jan 15, 2007, 07:56 PM
That is one scary looking router.

:D I would be scared of it taking over the house while I was asleep! ;)

TheSailerMan
Jan 15, 2007, 08:27 PM
Like this one from Netgear, it has gigabit ports...?

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/specs.aspx?EDC=969472

Oh wait, no that's cheaper. Okay, how about Linksys...?

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRT350N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Storage/dp/B000H96IN2

Oops, cheaper again.

Hey, hey... I said likely. I don't research wireless routers in my free time (not saying you do though). I'm just saying there are different routers for different uses.

Like someone else said, Apple is likely (there's that word again) trying to push wireless connections, but still support macs without them. My Mac mini, as I said before, doesn't have a gigabit ethernet port, and I'm fairly sure that the next revision of the Mac mini had Airport Extreme cards included as a standard, and the revision (Intel) after had both gigabit ethernet and an APE card.
All of Apple's computers now have APE standard except the Mac Pro, which has it as a measly (especially compared to the price of the computer) $49 option. If you got a Mac Pro without APE, you'd likely be installing a different wireless card, or if you were running strictly wired... why would you buy a wireless router?

The inclusion of the ports seems just be to make sure older Macs aren't left out in the cold.

EDIT: Forgot moving files to various computers on a network would still be slow... that is a problem. I guess Apple is really pushing wireless, they weren't thinking of that when working on the new APE base station, or they figured we could settle with the slower connection. You could get one of those cheaper routers instead if you really need the speed. I dunno, it doesn't affect me, so I guess I'm not getting the whole picture here.

timswim78
Jan 15, 2007, 08:46 PM
That is one scary looking router.

It sure is. I bet that you can access your files from 3,000 miles away with it ;)

maverick808
Jan 15, 2007, 08:48 PM
There is now no Apple computer that you can buy that does not have Gigabit Ethernet. Surely then, the device Apple sells to connect the computers you buy from them should also support Gigabit? It seems silly that Apple are putting Gigabit Ethernet into all their machines but forcing you to go elsewhere if you want to connect them.

Gigabit is so cheap now, I just can't understand why Apple didn't include it. A Gigabit chip is the same size as a Fast Ethernet chip, and probably only costs a matter of cents more. Apple has really cheaped out on this one and made a potentially great device sub-standard.

Is this what we should expect from Apple?

mkrishnan
Jan 15, 2007, 08:54 PM
Is this what we should expect from Apple?

Yes! :eek: ;) :D How long have you dealt with Apple? ;)


Meh, I don't know. I do kind of feel you all on this one. I don't know about the current iteration, but the previous Airport Extreme Base Station (of which I have one) was always marketed as a sort of pro-sumer / midmarket product. Meaning, when I bought it, it was expensive, but it also had features that were not available on anything else (at that time WPA was not widely used on Windows and not that many routers supported it, printer sharing, etc) but also features that were not really directed at home users (the modem port, the ability to add antennas, the high capacity for simultaneous connections).

So I think the argument that it's a "home" device and the endless white vs. aluminum nonsense doesn't clearly apply here....

But I also personally could care less whether it had gigabit ethernet. ;)

aristobrat
Jan 15, 2007, 09:11 PM
But I also personally could care less whether it had gigabit ethernet. ;)
Same here, and I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of other home users don't care about GigE either.

maverick808
Jan 15, 2007, 09:18 PM
Same here, and I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of other home users don't care about GigE either.

I really don't think that's a viable excuse for not including it. 90% of home users probably don't care about brighter displays, slightly faster CPUs, backlit keyboards, FireWire 800, 802.11n, higher resolution displays, etc. Does this mean Apple shouldn't bother with all those either?

aristobrat
Jan 15, 2007, 10:12 PM
I really don't think that's a viable excuse for not including it.
It really doesn't matter what you think when you're in the minority.

But hey, it should be pretty easy to convince the masses that even though their new 802.11n wifi router is significantly faster than the 802.11g that they've been using for the last several years, if they'd just string some ethernet cables throughout their house, their files could go even faster.

Once you have the other 90% on your side, then Apple can't ignore what you think.

maverick808
Jan 15, 2007, 10:29 PM
It really doesn't matter what you think when you're in the minority.

Wow, superb logic. Following that logic Apple should just pack up right now and start making Dells.

Also, if we really followed that logic then Apple wouldn't have bothered to implement FireWire 800, digital audio out, ExpressCard/34s, and many other things.

I really don't think Apple's attitude should be "well, only real power users want this functionality so let's just make a crappy product that will just do, rather than making products that will suit beginners and experts alike".

aristobrat
Jan 15, 2007, 10:38 PM
I really don't think Apple's attitude should be "well, only real power users want this functionality so let's just make a crappy product that will just do, rather than making products that will suit beginners and experts alike".
It's a wireless router that appears to be designed for the average home. The average home doesn't use wires for their computers anymore.

Adding GigE would be like them adding Firewire 800 or ExpressCard/34 to the MacBook.

Nice features that very few of the target market would use.

maverick808
Jan 15, 2007, 10:43 PM
It's a wireless router that appears to be designed for the average home. The average home doesn't use wires for their computers anymore.

Adding GigE would be like them adding Firewire 800 or ExpressCard/34 to the MacBook.

Nice features that very few of the target market would use.

Well I would say that if you believe that then it should follow that you also believe that the MacBook itself should not have any Ethernet port, nevermind a Gigabit one. Similarly, with the same logic it probably shouldn't have digital out, as I'm quite sure very few people will ever use that.

Looks like neither of us will change our opinion so we'll have to agree to disagree, and move on.

aristobrat
Jan 15, 2007, 10:49 PM
Looks like neither of us will change our opinion so we'll have to agree to disagree, and move on.
Agreed. :)

Are you interested in the Linksys that you found earlier in this thread? I wonder what the signal strength between it and the new Airport Express will be.

maverick808
Jan 15, 2007, 11:05 PM
Agreed. :)

Are you interested in the Linksys that you found earlier in this thread? I wonder what the signal strength between it and the new Airport Express will be.

Yes, I may buy it. Although, since new 802.11n routers are coming out more frequently just now, I'm going to wait until I can get my hands on the MBP 802.11n enabler first. At that point I'll have another look at what's available and buy one then.

Whatever one I get, I'll post somewhere on the forum letting people know if it works well with the MBP.

MacVault
Jan 17, 2007, 06:26 AM
Hey, Maybe Apple will charge us all $4.99 to upgrade the AirPort Extreme to Gigabit Ethernet :D

FireArse
Jan 17, 2007, 06:46 AM
The point is that every mac now comes with gigabit ethernet, but they won't be able to use it unless they buy a third party network switch/hub.

Try and find me a Gigabit Hub in the UK for retail sale...

maverick808
Jan 17, 2007, 10:49 AM
Try and find me a Gigabit Hub in the UK for retail sale...

Are you kidding? Have you looked at all? I am in the UK and there are hundreds of Gigabit hubs to buy here. I bought a gigabit hub over a year ago that I use to connect all my machines.

Typing in "Gigabit hub" into Amazon UK alone returns nearly 50 results.