Apple iPhone Apps Coming, but Limited

[ki4pcm]

I have looked at various smartphones as having the all in one devise appeals to me (didn't buy one waiting to see what the iPhone would be). I used my (old!) palm a lot - when I remembered to take it with me. My cell phone is always with me. I also installed quite a few 3rd party apps on it. For me to drop $600 + paying to cancel my Verizon contract early it needs 3rd party app support.

I understand they want it to "just work" as is expected with all Apple products - which is part of why I pay the premium rather than using Linux. However, 3rd party apps aren't limited on the Mac computers and shouldn't be on the iPhone either. If it is to truely be a smartphone, it needs apps, and many more than Apple could ever create or even think of! If people want to ensure that their phone never breaks, don't install the extra apps, as someone else said, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to.

Requiring Apple certification is also not practical. Sure, that will result in many popular apps being available, but not all apps are going to be used by the masses. An example: I am an amateur radio operator. I would like to install software that would take the position data (it's gotta have it in some form to meet E911 laws) and format it into APRS (automatic position reporting system) packets. Then, using more 3rd party software the data can be converted into 'sound' to be sent through the speaker cable to my radio which would broadcast the packet. Think telephone modem. I could also receive similiar packets from other amateurs and using the Google Maps api plot them on maps. This would eliminate lugging a gps, laptop, and possibly a tnc (radio modem) along when responding to emergencies. No, I am not expecting someone to develop this for me, I will do that myself. I only want to be able to put it on the iPhone without paying a lot of money for Apple to approve it as it would then not be worth the cost and hassle and I'd still be lugging the laptop. As the number of amateur that would have iPhones and download my app and pay for it wouldn't be that great, I can't imagine I'd recoup costs/time/inconvenience of getting Apple certification.

Now here's the solution: Apple allows you to sync applications onto the iPhone via iTunes. Since you are already syncing, all your data from the iPhone is saved. There can be part of iTunes that manages your software. If the new software doesn't work well you can resync after removing the app from that section of iTunes. If it completely hoses the iPhone, iTunes can 'reimage' the iPhone and sync your data back to it. As an added bonus, Mac users might be able to use Timeline to save snapshots and have a "return to last known good" type of option. Using iTunes to sync software does not mean you'll have to buy it through iTS either - you can import the same as you would mp3s not purchased on iTS. People who don't want or need 3rd party software don't have to install any, and Apple/Cingular don't have to support 3rd party software on the iPhone just as Apple doesn't support it on the Mac. Apple could also have the option of having your app certified by them and then they could list it on a website as "stable, works well, whatever", but to require it is just not smart.

I was sold on the iPhone before the keynote was over. I was a guarunteed sale, until the no 3rd party app/only approved 3rd party app thing came out. I love my MacBook because of the flexibility - it triple boots! - but without being able to install other apps on the iPhone I'll just dust off the old Palm and teach myself to carry it around or get a Treo. That said, the iPhone appears to have an amazing interface and I am still drooling over it. But if it doesn't function as a smartphone/pda, it's not worth the money to me.

[fastdrive]

KI4PCM,

You seem to be quite an intelligent/technical person if you can write that app. yourself. However you are probably not the person Apple is going after with their iphone.

As far as I understand this is not marketed towards the techgeeks or business professionals. I think this is marketed towards the style concious hip professionals. The support nightmares that Apple/Cingular would face from these people installing and bricking their iphones would be very cost prohibitive.

[ki4pcm]

KI4PCM,

You seem to be quite an intelligent/technical person if you can write that app. yourself. However you are probably not the person Apple is going after with their iphone.

As far as I understand this is not marketed towards the techgeeks or business professionals. I think this is marketed towards the style concious hip professionals. The support nightmares that Apple/Cingular would face from these people installing and bricking their iphones would be very cost prohibitive.

You see, that is precisely what I anticipated. I expected that when the iPhone came out it would be a iPod/phone smoosh device that I would end up not having an interest in. Watching the keynote, it appeared to be a device beyond anything I imagined it to be, and I couldn't wait to buy one. It's everything I want and more, or at least it could be, and that is the very depressing part.

What Apple is best at isn't innovating the next big thing, it's taking an existing idea and bringing it to a big reality in a highly usable way that appeals to everyone from the tech geeks to the grandma's that had no idea what email was but now can use it.

Now with the iPhone they seem to have decided they are only targeting the masses and artificially crippling what could be, and the let down is worse than if it just didn't have the ability to be more in the first place.

I just don't buy that it would be a support nightmare - software has always been an at your own risk experience and 3rd party software has always been supported by the 3rd party. As I said, iTunes could even reimage the phone if needed, so even that support issue would be as easy as "put it in your doc, click file, click reformat iPhone, confirm/enter password/whatever"

[Stella]

Its sooo frustrating - its got a great UI etc, better than any phone ( GUI ) out there probably.

So close to the perfect smartphone, but they decide to lock it down too much and make it unappealing to the more 'power user'.


You see, that is precisely what I anticipated. I expected that when the iPhone came out it would be a iPod/phone smoosh device that I would end up not having an interest in. Watching the keynote, it appeared to be a device beyond anything I imagined it to be, and I couldn't wait to buy one. It's everything I want and more, or at least it could be, and that is the very depressing part.

[jhande]

KI4PCM,

You seem to be quite an intelligent/technical person if you can write that app. yourself. However you are probably not the person Apple is going after with their iphone.

As far as I understand this is not marketed towards the techgeeks or business professionals. I think this is marketed towards the style concious hip professionals. The support nightmares that Apple/Cingular would face from these people installing and bricking their iphones would be very cost prohibitive.

But aren't we 'geeks' also the ones in our immediate neighborhood who influence a lot of purchasing decisions, whether it's in the pro or consumer section?

Alt least in my case, I have heavily influenced both my company as well as family/friends re. MB and MBP, and would have also wrt the iPhone. Now... not so sure.

If we have a 'halo' effect of our own, and there are enough of us, why then 'anti-market' the iPhone? Apple aren't dummies, but I really can't figure them out here.

Regarding 'bricking' the phone, that *has* happened on other platforms, but rarely. Usually it is a case of something like "Please turn the phone on while holding the up button simultaneously. Then synch the phone". After 10-15 minutes phone is back.

I just don't know.........:(

[fastdrive]

It's everything I want and more, or at least it could be, and that is the very depressing part.

You knows that exactly what I thought when I married my wife, but it still does not mean that I don't love her and she's wonderful in everything that she does do :)

I look at the iphone the same way..its amazing in what it does, and I'm not going to turn it away just because it can't do the things I would want it to do.

Imagine how large, ugly and laggy the iphone would be if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it. I think a device like that is called a WM5 Device.

[ki4pcm]

You knows that exactly what I thought when I married my wife, but it still does not mean that I don't love her and she's wonderful in everything that she does do :)

I look at the iphone the same way..its amazing in what it does, and I'm not going to turn it away just because it can't do the things I would want it to do.

Imagine how large, ugly and laggy the iphone would be if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it. I think a device like that is called a WM5 Device.

LOL! Ok, that is cute. :D

Yes, the phone is amazing with what it does do. No arguments there. Where I partially disagree with you is that the phone would be "large, ugly, and laggy if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it." Yes, it would get bigger if they had a removable battery, but I didn't complain about that. What I asked for is that they simply don't artificially prevent something it already CAN do. Yes, install the right app or combination of apps and run too many at once and it will slow down, but so will a Mac Pro. That is the nature of computers, and even if they don't want to call it a computer, it is. So is my current phone that I paid $10 for from Verizon. And if it doesn't do what I want it to do, especially as a device I would have to pay $600 + contract for, then I can "turn it away".

[christian_k]

Whey don't they even allow JAVA apps?

Every modern phone now allows JAVA apps. I know it was very restricted on older phones, but on modern devices the size of an app is only limited by the space on your memory card and things like bluetooth com, network com, camera shots or even 3D graphics are possible now. Current devices even allow multple JAVA apps to be active at the same time.

I did vevelopment for JAVA phones myself and I tried buggy development builds on phones from SonyEriccson, BenQ/Siemens and Nokia and I never saw any of these devices crash or otherwise behave buggy because of errors in my code. Network/Bluetooth/Camera access is strictly only allowed on the users explicit permission.

OSX itself is a very stable platform. I don't see a way a JAVA app could make it crash or even prevent you fram making phone calls. It would also make sense, since Java is an official language for OSX development with full Cocoa support and it is even processor independent! So even a non X86/PPC CPU would be no problem !

If Steave doesn't even allow Java apps, it only has one reason: Money. Apple and Cingular want to make money for every download and for every exclusive license for 3rd parties. Thats all.

Christian

[troylanes]

Ladies and Gents,

In response to Apple's lack of 3rd party application support for the upcoming iPhone there is really only one proper thing to do -- develop a 3rd party SDK much like the wine (winehq.org) project. I've registered iphonesdk.com where we, as a community, can start 'er up. Hopefully we can have a contest like the "boot windows on an intel mac" project and raise some money for the first working sdk with app loader. More to come and iphonesdk.com

Troy

:)

[billyboy]

Its sooo frustrating - its got a great UI etc, better than any phone ( GUI ) out there probably.

So close to the perfect smartphone, but they decide to lock it down too much and make it unappealing to the more 'power user'.

Let's hear it for the massive majority non-power users who just want something that works out the box.:rolleyes:

As usual, the few who would actually benefit from geekified phone options shout loud, but really, they dont even figure as a minor blip in Apple's radar. Much like the iPod developers never did get swayed by the demands for lots of add-ons, so the iPhone will stay cool and rock solid in its boring original condition, plenty good enough for 95% of their 100 million owners.

Of course, lots of good ideas come from the geeks, so maybe in a roundabout way, they will get their moment when Apple "invent" one of their good ideas and out it into the iPhone.

[Whistleway]

honestly, I was all for it. But if he's not gonna open it up for 3rd party software makers he's making it really hard for someone in my position to justify purchasing one.

Thing that drives me to getting a palm or windows pda phone is the ability to run medical software on it like epocrates or the washington manual. If those aren't gonna be to run on it, why would I really need one?

great post. this thingy is basically useless without epocrates or lexi-comp.

[dan-o-mac]

“You don’t want your phone to be an open platform,” meaning that anyone can write applications for it and potentially gum up the provider's network, says Jobs. “You need it to work when you need it to work. Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up.”

We love you Steve but the $#!t you spewing is getting ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[Stella]

OSX works out the box and thats for Geeks too ( especially the unix part ). I don't see your point.

Anyway, your statement is very sweeping and incorrect - I know non geeks who put 3rd party apps on their smartphones.

SJ should have never compared the iPhone against other smartphones - its misleading. iPhone and smartphones are very different markets ( smartphones being more useful - due to the open platform concept ). ( Yes, SJ said iPhone is smartphone, but its too closed )


Let's hear it for the massive majority non-power users who just want something that works out the box.:rolleyes:

As usual, the few who would actually benefit from geekified phone options shout loud, but really, they dont even figure as a minor blip in Apple's radar. Much like the iPod developers never did get swayed by the demands for lots of add-ons, so the iPhone will stay cool and rock solid in its boring original condition, plenty good enough for 95% of their 100 million owners.

Of course, lots of good ideas come from the geeks, so maybe in a roundabout way, they will get their moment when Apple "invent" one of their good ideas and out it into the iPhone.

[trellus]

I agree with Stella that the iPhone isn't truly a "smartphone", at least not in the traditional sense a la Symbian, Palm, or Windows Mobile based smart phones which allow 3rd party application support, and all have thriving third party software available, in fact.

On the other hand, I think it definitely has the potential to be very successful if it can give the 95% of consumers (that one user mentioned), the functionality they want in a smartphone: email, web browsing that actually works well enough to use on normal web sites, and superb phone and multimedia functionality, and all of the above with a highly usable UI.

Me, I'll stick to the "traditional" smart phones (like my Treo 650) for now. I actually use my phone as a PDA almost much as I use it as a phone (if not more), with a good deal of the usage being provided by third-party applications that will almost certainly not be available on the iPhone. (Interestingly enough, one of the third-party apps I use is highly cross-platform and is available on Blackberry, Symbian, Palm, and Windows Mobile -- so if iPhone had an open SDK, I would almost bet the farm it would be on there as well.)

[shrimpdesign]

Web browsing? Over 2G EDGE network? That's slower than dial-up. No Flash or Java? It's nearly useless for web browsing. E-mail? Google, Yahoo and .Mac only? So no Exchange, IMAP or POP? That's not e-mail.

This thing will be next to useless in it's current iteration at that price point. No third-part apps is just the topping. I wouldn't even consider it.
Again ... there are going to be 3rd party apps. Apple just has to approve. And no, this probably wasn't Cingular's choice ... Apple is probably playing it safe because the FCC has regulations about letting any John Doe accessing the communication hardware. Apple might still need to figure out how to resctrict it, and if there's any holes in their security, it's better to play it safe.

And yeah, it was mentioned that the Email was POP/IMAP. And BTW the sites I go to the most don't have flash OR Java. In fact, I web browse on my Nokia 770 a lot, and it has no Java, and only has Flash 6 (so no YouTube) and I'm fine .. the large extent of the web is still just text and images.

[shrimpdesign]

Hey, I got an idea! Let's all bookmark this and come back in 2 years.

Then we can submit it to digg and say "ha ha this guy thought the iphone would fail!" and everyone will chuckle as they read it on their iPhone.

[zimtheinvader]

Time to wait for the "zaurus" (linux) smartphone I guess. Apple's still reeling and scared by the idea of releasing another device as ahead of its time and powerful as the Newton, apparently. Heck I would even take a newton with the same specs as the last gen, just with usb and SD card support...

Too bad, but didnt SJ say years ago that pdas weren't catching on anyway?

On the bright side, this is the über-rokr. On the dark side its way too expensive to be competing with the Razr, unless it was released on VERIZON!!! (seriously, we could use a sexy new phone instead of waiting for the sim-based hand me downs)...

[trellus]

shrimpdesign,

I don't think most (some maybe but definitely not most) of the people complaining about the lack of an open SDK are saying it will doom the iPhone. I'm personally in the camp that believes the iPhone is quite likely to succeed and do very well (and I'm rooting for it as an Apple fanboy), but I won't buy it unless it has sufficient third-party software available, or Apple bundles a Bible Reader with all the translations I use and a checkbook register program -- um, not likely. :) If getting permission to develop software for the iPhone is as tough as for the iPod (games), I doubt I will see the apps I use everyday on my Treo 650 available for the iPhone.

Also, I'm not sure I understood your comment about the lack of an open SDK for third-party software development possibly being "Apple playing it safe" because they're afraid of third-party software causing the device to violate FCC regulations -- because Nokia, Palm, and tons of Windows Mobile phone manufacturers all have to deal with FCC regulations and have a thriving market of third-party apps available for their phones.

[jhande]

You knows that exactly what I thought when I married my wife, but it still does not mean that I don't love her and she's wonderful in everything that she does do :)

I look at the iphone the same way..its amazing in what it does, and I'm not going to turn it away just because it can't do the things I would want it to do.

Imagine how large, ugly and laggy the iphone would be if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it. I think a device like that is called a WM5 Device.

No, that is what is called a Computer. Spec-wise, what is the iPhone....? Anything else is just crippling its potential

[AppleIntelRock]

Over and over people are hammering in that this phone is for the "majority" and not for the power user. Frankly, I'm getting sick of hearing about it. The Razr is a phone for the majority (most popular phone in the US) and it's price point as been $100-200 MOST of it's life. Not 500-600.

[Zadillo]

Over and over people are hammering in that this phone is for the "majority" and not for the power user. Frankly, I'm getting sick of hearing about it. The Razr is a phone for the majority (most popular phone in the US) and it's price point as been $100-200 MOST of it's life. Not 500-600.

We're just talking about who it is designed for. Not saying it is going to become the most popular phone, etc.

And also, this is Apple's first foray into the cellphone market. I think it is reasonable to assume that there will be other phones at different price points.

Remember also, when the RAZR first came out, it was also very high priced, and a very exclusive phone (to the point that it was kind of a status symbol, because it was so much thinner than other phones at the time, and people knew it was very expensive). It's only become more popular as the prices on it have dropped, and cellphone companies have pushed it because of the idea that now "anyone" can get it.

Comparing the iPhone to the RAZR is interesting, but again only if you remember the very high price of the RAZR when it launched, and that it was not an "everyman's" phone. The RAZR became that way because prices on it dropped, and it has become more accessible.

There's no reason to think that the iPhone price won't also drop and become more affordable. A lot of these phones that push things forward start out very expensive because they are in fact very expensive.

When I bought my Treo 650 a year and a half ago, it cost $450 WITH a 2 year contract. Now there's a Treo 680 (which is better, although still using the same stagnant Palm OS) which only costs $199 with a 2 year contract.

You can rest assured though that if Palm or Motorola were able to design a Treo or Q or whatever with the capabilities and UI of the iPhone, they would sure as hell also be charging $500 for them.

Either way, people are talking about the interface and functionality of the iPhone primarily when they say it is designed more for the consumer majority. The point here is to differentiate it from Palm OS or Windows Mobile-based smartphones which are definitely not designed for the average user (as much as Palm, etc. might want that to be so).

-Zadillo

[Zadillo]

Time to wait for the "zaurus" (linux) smartphone I guess. Apple's still reeling and scared by the idea of releasing another device as ahead of its time and powerful as the Newton, apparently. Heck I would even take a newton with the same specs as the last gen, just with usb and SD card support...

Too bad, but didnt SJ say years ago that pdas weren't catching on anyway?

On the bright side, this is the über-rokr. On the dark side its way too expensive to be competing with the Razr, unless it was released on VERIZON!!! (seriously, we could use a sexy new phone instead of waiting for the sim-based hand me downs)...

He was right though. The straight PDA market is practically dead; the only PDA's that anyone is even focusing on are Smartphones (Palm has given up on non-Treo devices, HP and Dell haven't been doing much with their Windows Mobile devices, etc.).

I would say that the one thing that the Newton does very well that the iPhone won't is really note-taking; but this was also the downfall of the Newton. The Newton had to be big enough for comfortable HWR, but that also made it too big for most people to carry around; they preferred PalmPilots, which were more limited, but could be put in even a shirtpocket.

Outside of note-taking though, this blows my old Newton (I had a MessagePad 130 with Newton OS 2.0) out of the water. I'd certainly love to see a newton-sized tablet with inkwell hwr and this same "mini os x", with the ability to easily put third party apps on it. That would really be about as close as we could ever come to the "Newton 3000".

[billyboy]

OSX works out the box and thats for Geeks too ( especially the unix part ). I don't see your point.

Anyway, your statement is very sweeping and incorrect - I know non geeks who put 3rd party apps on their smartphones.

SJ should have never compared the iPhone against other smartphones - its misleading. iPhone and smartphones are very different markets ( smartphones being more useful - due to the open platform concept ). ( Yes, SJ said iPhone is smartphone, but its too closed )

My point is that iPhone is a glorified iPod and primarily it will be a reliable multi purpose device. OSX is installed primarily for the benefit of Apple who know they can put in apps they can rely on. What they cant rely on 100% wont be going into the iPhone. iPod has been pretty much locked down, and so will iPhone, until Apple introduce software that they think the majority will benefit from, not what a relatively few enthusiasts demand.

[ManchesterTrix]

Again ... there are going to be 3rd party apps. Apple just has to approve. And no, this probably wasn't Cingular's choice ... Apple is probably playing it safe because the FCC has regulations about letting any John Doe accessing the communication hardware. Apple might still need to figure out how to resctrict it, and if there's any holes in their security, it's better to play it safe.

From this I can take it that you know nothing of how Phones, smartphones, mobile OSes, or programming for such devices actually works, yes? In that case, it'd be best not to speak on the subject. You are completely wrong about your assumptions.

[shrimpdesign]

From this I can take it that you know nothing of how Phones, smartphones, mobile OSes, or programming for such devices actually works, yes? In that case, it'd be best not to speak on the subject. You are completely wrong about your assumptions.
Well, I don't personally. But i've heard that most smartphones keep the OS on one chip, and the rest of the Apps on another. But it's been reported that the iPhone runs it's lite OS X off of the main memory, where everything else will go.

And I'm willing to bet that lite OS X is far more complex than Palm or Windows Mobile, and therefore might need some extra security feautres that Apple hasn't worked out yet.

But yes, for the most part, it's just a guess.

[kristoffer4]

Do you think that the Iphone will have E-book reading?
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060722213042.shtml
:)
Also what about games? Surely some of the old Ipod games must be comming?

[robro182]

This puts a bad taste in my mouth. I guess Steve thinks we're all idiots, well I'm not going to be dumb enough to buy into this....at least be honest and just say we sold our souls to ATT and they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform.

[Zadillo]

This puts a bad taste in my mouth. I guess Steve thinks we're all idiots, well I'm not going to be dumb enough to buy into this....at least be honest and just say we sold our souls to ATT and they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform.

Yes, that makes him a fascist :rolleyes:

And who says they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform? It seems like the worst case scenario here is some situation where there is an iPhone Software section on the iTunes Store, similar to how you can buy iPod games right now, and people who make software for it will have to sell through there. But those people would clearly make money off of it.

Also, sold their souls to ATT? Give me a break. Almost every company that makes cellphones does exclusive deals with different providers; Apple hasn't sold their soul to Cingular any more than Samsung did by giving them the exclusive on the BlackJack.

-Zadillo

[FACT]

I'm not really concerned if the OS is full or mini version. My main concern is quotes like this, “We define everything that is on the phone". Thanks, but no thanks. What if I wanted Adium on my phone but Apple doesn't. Let the user decide what they want on the phone, let them take responsibility.

yeah but then its the user who will end up bitching and complaining because "Oh no! an app compromised the stability of my phone! Screw apple!"

its a lose lose situation for apple with you people. If you honestly think you won't be able to put a boatload of different apps and such on this phone by this time next year, you need a reality check.

[AppleIntelRock]

This puts a bad taste in my mouth. I guess Steve thinks we're all idiots, well I'm not going to be dumb enough to buy into this....at least be honest and just say we sold our souls to ATT and they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform.

The CEO of AT&T really hounded in the fact that apple did not have a virtual network and it was 100% AT&T. "An agreement where Cingular can me Cingular."

[imacdaddy]

Who needs 3rd party apps when Apple can give us apps that are "Software Breakthrough...software that's at least 5 years ahead of any other phone" SJ 2007 MW Keynote :p

[AppleIntelRock]

Who needs 3rd party apps when Apple can give us apps that are "Software Breakthrough...software that's at least 5 years ahead of any other phone" SJ 2007 MW Keynote :p

Just because there isn't much of it, doesn't mean it isn't 5 years ahead.

[jhande]

its a lose lose situation for apple with you people. If you honestly think you won't be able to put a boatload of different apps and such on this phone by this time next year, you need a reality check.

Sorry, All we've got to go on right now is the word of SJ, and if he says they want to keep control of 3rd party software, that is what we react to.

The issue is the level of control. If it requires that I sign up on developer.apple.com, get an ID which is compiled in with the app for 'signing' purposes (kinda like Palm does, and that actually works really well), then fine. The market decides whether my app succeeds or not (or, wrt vertical markets, i don't care about the wide market, just a niche). Good.

However, if it means that my app has to come through a 'screening committee', then the whole thing is going to bog down in absolute uselessness.

Finally, what is this going to cost me as a developer? Is this screening process going to be free? What then if I want to make a piece of freeware?

It's all about reaction time. Look at the speed that the iPhony Launcher (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/13/iphony-launcher-for-palm-os/) came to 'market'. One day. Yes, it's just a toy/joke, but it illustrates the fact that the developer had an idea, created the app, and sent it out on the market. THAT's the kind of free-flowing spirit that the iPhone needs to really blossom.

Ah hell, why bother. Users don't seem to get that developers see all the different things that this computer (yeah, computer, whether you call it a phone or not) will be able to do. And neither can Apple. They cannot envisage every single little thing that the whole seething mass of developers can think of.

I just hope that it is opened up to 3rd parties. Then it really can become the tricorder of the age.

[vistadb]

We make a 3rd party database engine for .NET and for the first time ever i was seriously excited about exploring how to get into the Apple's OS X developer market because of the iPhone. We were looking forward to achieving the following:
http://www.vistadb.net/blog/?p=11

The iPhone is clearly a revolutionary device, but if software developers can't build applications for it, it will not dominate the business market. And signing with Cingular didn't help things. Very sad to see Apple missing the big picture and enormous opportunity ... yet again. I may reluctantly buy the iPhone -- it looks too good to ignore - but i'll be waiting for Microsoft/Verizon/(+Morotorla?) to wake up and build a phone based on Vista's UI that competes head-on. Apple was sooo close.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

[Zadillo]

We make a 3rd party database engine for .NET and for the first time ever i was seriously excited about exploring how to get into the Apple's OS X developer market because of the iPhone. We were looking forward to achieving the following:
http://www.vistadb.net/blog/?p=11

The iPhone is clearly a revolutionary device, but if software developers can't build applications for it, it will not dominate the business market. And signing with Cingular didn't help things. Very sad to see Apple missing the big picture and enormous opportunity ... yet again. I may reluctantly buy the iPhone -- it looks too good to ignore - but i'll be waiting for Microsoft/Verizon/(+Morotorla?) to wake up and build a phone based on Vista's UI that competes head-on. Apple was sooo close.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

Again, it's been said time and time again, but there is still a lot we don't know. But your statement that software devs can't build applications for it doesn't seem to have any basis to it; we haven't seen exactly how third party dev will be handled, but it sounds like there will be a way to do it, just that there might be some controlled platform, rather than just unfettered ability for third party apps to be installed.

Either way, you speak about it like the iPhone as we know it will remain exactly the same. But I don't see any basis for that. If the iPod is any indication, things will be expanded, and the platform will probably change as demands are met.

Just as an example, the original iPod didn't have anything like the Dock Connector. But it was added eventually to meet the demand from third party accessory makers who wanted to create products that worked with the iPod.

The post above would be like saying "It's a shame the iPod is never going to have any way to interface with third party accessories", making the incorrect assumption that the platform won't or can't change or adapt.

Again, this is a first effort from a company which has never made cellphones before. I think it is reasonable to expect that, as with the iPod, Apple will look at the things people demand which the initial product doesn't have, and work on adding them.

Heck, remember, the original iPod did almost nothing but play music. But even the iPod was grown to add features, including things that Apple initially dismissed (i.e. they used to say they'd never do video because there wasn't a demand for it).

I can see from the posts you made on your own blog that you've already come to the conclusion that this is all set in stone though, and that MS is going to "crush" it.

Personally though, if I were a dev interested in developing for the iPhone, I'd actually keep an eye on developer.apple.com and see what Apple's actual plans are for third party development support.

But your conclusion right now that it is completely closed to third party development seems premature. I think we all need to actually wait until Apple actually releases some information on it.

But to say that it is closed really does imply that third party development will be impossible. The few things Apple has said so far have sounded more like a controlled environment where third parties will be able to develop apps, but there might need to be some sort of signing process, etc, like Symbian 9.x handles full API apps, etc.

Or, of course, just wait for Microsoft and Motorola (or whoever) to come out with their iPhone killer. I wouldn't personally count on seeing something like that any time soon, as I think MS has clearly oriented Windows Mobile for a different type of market, and it would require a pretty radical change in WinMob to be like what the iPhone will be, but who knows.

-Zadillo

[vistadb]

Again, it's been said time and time again, but there is still a lot we don't know....

You're right and i really hope that Apple opens up the iPhone to developers sooner rather than later. They have tremendous momentum right now.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

[Zadillo]

You're right and i really hope that Apple opens up the iPhone to developers sooner rather than later. They have tremendous momentum right now.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

I do too. I think the big question is really just who Apple is aiming at with the iPhone, or if in fact they are trying to create some sort of new hybrid market.

What I've seen so far really makes me think that Apple is going after a sort of "unique" segment of the market. That is, consumers who are tempted by smartphones, because they want more than the limited capabilities of simple "featurephones", but don't necessarily want or like to use existing smartphones because of the complexities associated with Palm OS, Windows Mobile, Symbian, etc.

I was reading a review of the Palm Treo 680, for example, and they pointed out that Palm's stated goal with that particular phone was to "expand the pie"; that is, to expand beyond the standard market for smartphones, and make a device to appeal more to consumers who wanted better media playing capabilities, web browsing, e-mail, etc. than what they can get with a typical "featurephone".

But I suspect that Palm realizes that the kinds of consumers buying a Treo 680 might be less likely to learn about installing third party apps, etc. so they worked a lot harder to make the "out of the box" Palm OS experience as painless as possible.

I kind of suspect that this is more the market that Apple has identified with the iPhone as well. I know that Jobs directly compared it to other smartphones in his keynote, but I do think the attitude about limited third party development and ability to get third party apps on your iPhone, indicates that Apple isn't really looking for at least this iteration of the iPhone to actually be a suitable replacement for people who need the full capabilities of a Windows smartphone, a Treo, a Blackberry, etc.

I think Apple is looking at the people who buy a Treo or WinMob smartphone but primarily just use the built in apps, and are perhaps dissatisfied with the limitations of the kinds of apps bundled with them.

Of course, the iPhone pricing also puts it in a different category (certainly a whole different level than the $199 w/ contract Treo 680, $399 without), although I expect that will come down, just as other expensives phones have come down in price as they exist on the market longer.

But I do hope that there will be a good solution for third party development, and some fairly painless way for any third party dev to make apps easily available and installable. I agree that there's a lot of potential there.

But I don't think the iPhone is going to be a direct competitor for the WinMob/Palm OS business users (and I'm not so sure it would be even if Apple did try and take them head on, or made it a completely open unrestricted platform).

[vistadb]

Your original reply about "1st iteration" makes sense. As a consumer product the iPhone is a clear winner. No question. As a business device, i think it will still sell well regardless of no 3rd party support simply because the pre-packed apps/UI look incredible.

As a 3rd party company, i'm unhappy that we can't share in the iPhone's success. I'll be following this phone closely.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

[Zadillo]

Your original reply about "1st iteration" makes sense. As a consumer product the iPhone is a clear winner. No question. As a business device, i think it will still sell well regardless of no 3rd party support simply because the pre-packed apps/UI look incredible.

As a 3rd party company, i'm unhappy that we can't share in the iPhone's success. I'll be following this phone closely.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

Cool, and good luck.

Personally, one of the first things that struck me as soon as it was unveiled that the iPhone could be a great thing for interesting people in OS X development who otherwise might have no reason to look at the platform. So I also hope that sooner or later, Apple will realize the potential there.

I am also hoping that the stuff we've seen with the iPhone is just the beginning, and will be extended possibly to the iPod (seems like a no-brainer) and some sort of larger Mac Tablet kind of device. It could be a great platform for all sorts of interesting apps, etc.

[NickMela]

Again ... there are going to be 3rd party apps. Apple just has to approve. And no, this probably wasn't Cingular's choice ... Apple is probably playing it safe because the FCC has regulations about letting any John Doe accessing the communication hardware. Apple might still need to figure out how to resctrict it, and if there's any holes in their security, it's better to play it safe.

And yeah, it was mentioned that the Email was POP/IMAP. And BTW the sites I go to the most don't have flash OR Java. In fact, I web browse on my Nokia 770 a lot, and it has no Java, and only has Flash 6 (so no YouTube) and I'm fine .. the large extent of the web is still just text and images.

So Palm's folks seems to be quite irresponsible to allow their customers to install whatever they want on it....

[eliteteam]

Same here, still waiting to buy one :)

[gideonaf]

Like every apple product there will be a second and maybe third generation of iPhones. Don't u get it!!?? Apple wants you to spend $500 on a 4MB iPod/phone with no third party applications and no 3G. How much you want to bet that a few months after the realise of the iPhone, a second generation will come with more space, and the ability to install 3rd party appl for the same price or cheaper!. Just wait a little longer and you will see. It will make all the people who got the iPhone in June wish they would've waited. What do u think??

--gideon

24" 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo 2 iMac
15" 2.15GHz Intel Core Duo MacBook Pro
Black 30GB Video iPod
Windows @ work, makes me appreciate mac @ hom
U. S. Air Force Recruiter

[AppleIntelRock]

So Palm's folks seems to be quite irresponsible to allow their customers to install whatever they want on it....

Do you have any idea how many applications I've installed on Palm devices that everytime you launched them the device froze up. PLENTY.

[AppleIntelRock]

Like every apple product there will be a second and maybe third generation of iPhones. Don't u get it!!?? Apple wants you to spend $500 on a 4MB [:rolleyes:] iPod/phone with no third party applications and no 3G. How much you want to bet that a few months after the realise of the iPhone, a second generation will come with more space, and the ability to install 3rd party appl for the same price or cheaper!. Just wait a little longer and you will see. It will make all the people who got the iPhone in June wish they would've waited. What do u think??

--gideon


No. The iPhone is the result of 2.5 years of R&D. I will not be made obsolete in just a few months. Yes, technology will get old, but so be it. I don't worry to much about the future, by the time you get the guts to buy an iPhone, I'll have been using mine for over a year. ;)

[Zadillo]

Do you have any idea how many applications I've installed on Palm devices that everytime you launched them the device froze up. PLENTY.

True, although part of that is because the Palm OS is a piece of crap (which is why PalmSource gave up dev on it, and Palm has hedged their bets by making WinMob Treos as well).

Either way, Apple's explanation that the concern is third party apps bringing down Cingular's network seems pretty bizarre, as there are no known third party apps for Palm OS, WinMob, Symbian, Linux smartphones, etc. that are known to have done this.

[gwangung]

What I've seen so far really makes me think that Apple is going after a sort of "unique" segment of the market.

This has ALWAYS been the case with Apple.

They sense that a part of the market isn't satisfied with the products out there, and then they hone in on it. They define a market by the users and tailor a product around it, and not the other way around (which is exactly the opposite of how most people around here approach the matter).

You can see it with the iMac. You can see it with the iPod. And you can see it with the Mac itself.

Why people haven't realized this (after 20 some odd years), I don't know (ya think people around here would be smarter.....).

[Zadillo]

This has ALWAYS been the case with Apple.

They sense that a part of the market isn't satisfied with the products out there, and then they hone in on it. They define a market by the users and tailor a product around it, and not the other way around (which is exactly the opposite of how most people around here approach the matter).

You can see it with the iMac. You can see it with the iPod. And you can see it with the Mac itself.

Why people haven't realized this (after 20 some odd years), I don't know (ya think people around here would be smarter.....).

Very well put.

And you're right; thinking about the iPod, a lot of the people who criticize it do so because it doesn't have all the features that they want.... and they can't understand why [insert competing mp3 player here] doesn't dominate the market, even though it has FM radio, built in equalizers, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Personally I think Apple is on to something. I really think that Palm, for example, does not have the product to back up their ambitions (that is, to make the Treo 680 a device for casual users), pretty much because of the limitations of the Palm OS. And Windows Mobile doesn't really fit either.

But I think that Palm (and devices like the Samsung Blackjack) show that there is some interest among consumers for more powerful capabilities than normal "featurephones".

I think even with the limitations we know of with the iPhone, Apple is on to something by creating something that is more like a featurephone in being sort of a "controlled" platform, but more like a smartphone (or surpassing it really) in terms of having really powerful music playing, web browsing, etc. capabilities.

I think that the people who look at the iPhone and say "But my RAZR can browse the web, play music, read e-mail, etc." are kind of missing the point, much like the people who look at the iPod and say "but my [insert mp3 player here] plays music and can even do more than the iPod!".

[j33pd0g]

Now, for the widgets, I was surprised to "not see" the yellow/white pages, since those are phone related utilities. I think they are more phone related then the weather. I hope 3rd party widgets aren't lumped in the "3rd party app" category.

[kristoffer4]

You should be able to read Ebooks on the Iphone since it can open PDF docs.
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/digitaleditions/ :)

[Multimedia]

With all the sophisticated Pocket Windows applications out there already, Apple is going to have to offer an iPhone Boot Camp for Pocket Windows with the iPhone for it to become really popular beyond the base of Mac OS X users. :)

[justflie]

Now, for the widgets, I was surprised to "not see" the yellow/white pages, since those are phone related utilities. I think they are more phone related then the weather. I hope 3rd party widgets aren't lumped in the "3rd party app" category.

With absolutely nothing to back up my statement, we will certainly see more widgets/apps on the phone when it ships in june. especially i would expect a photo booth or some such application. people (esp new college switchers) have enough fun already with that, a macbook, and a few friends. It would be a huge hit if it were even more portable (as it would be in the iPhone).

[Apple Pie]

Is it? Really? You think Apple will ever develop ePocrates or Unbound Medicine? Those developers WOULD [develop for the iPhone], if Apple would let them. The reason the Palm was so successful was because of the huge catalog of titles available. And for the record, despite all the crap I have on my Treo, the phone works just fine. That's the way it's supposed to be designed, and that's what Apple should ensure when designing the OS for iPhone (which is no more OS X than Windows Mobile is WinXP).

Hi. I've loved my iPhone since day one. However, I still carry my Palm OS based PDA to work for ePocrates. I've tried ePocrates Online and Unbound Medicine's UCentral clinical suite and have found both to be frustratingly slow via EDGE or even WiFi when compared to Palm. Because of this I've created a petition to encourage Apple to support 3rd party medical software that will run directly on the iPhone. Please follow the link below if you would like to sign it and leave a comment for Apple/ePocrates:
http://www.geeknuz.com/nuz/2007/07/add-your-name-1.html

[iMacBookUser]

Hi. I've loved my iPhone since day one. However, I still carry my Palm OS based PDA to work for ePocrates. I've tried ePocrates Online and Unbound Medicine's UCentral clinical suite and have found both to be frustratingly slow via EDGE or even WiFi when compared to Palm. Because of this I've created a petition to encourage Apple to support 3rd party medical software that will run directly on the iPhone. Please follow the link below if you would like to sign it and leave a comment for Apple/ePocrates:
http://www.geeknuz.com/nuz/2007/07/add-your-name-1.html

I think Apple Pie is on to something here... Although I don't use either of the applications mentioned above, this is a perfect example of where third-party applications actually further the demand for smart phones/PDAs... I really hope Apple sees this potential soon. :(

[iluvmyiphone]

The proble is not that Steve is a control freak. The problem is that Apple has talked smack to Microsoft for years about compatibility and reliability. Microsoft has spent billions on developing a strong reliable platform that is resiliant to poorly coded 3rd party apps. Steve and Apple both know that their OS is not as evolved and thus the 'lockdown'. Any clown can create a device with an OS on it which only runs apps that have been tested by the OS manufacturer. That is simple. What is difficult is making that OS secure and reliable and STILL allow other software vendors to ride on top of the OS.

I also highly suspect that the OS is not really Mac OSX and it is simply a kernel rewrite. That would be why posix and OSX based apps will not run on it. Throw in that the Apple developers are not really that quality of a crew and there is no time for a strong API and the OS is a hodgepodge of technology and slapped together apps.

That being said. I love my iPhone. I look forward to the day it is hacked to run Mono and I will develop mono apps for it. Until then I like it for what it is... phone candy, crappy for you but fun to play with.

[Zadillo]

The proble is not that Steve is a control freak. The problem is that Apple has talked smack to Microsoft for years about compatibility and reliability. Microsoft has spent billions on developing a strong reliable platform that is resiliant to poorly coded 3rd party apps. Steve and Apple both know that their OS is not as evolved and thus the 'lockdown'. Any clown can create a device with an OS on it which only runs apps that have been tested by the OS manufacturer. That is simple. What is difficult is making that OS secure and reliable and STILL allow other software vendors to ride on top of the OS.

I also highly suspect that the OS is not really Mac OSX and it is simply a kernel rewrite. That would be why posix and OSX based apps will not run on it. Throw in that the Apple developers are not really that quality of a crew and there is no time for a strong API and the OS is a hodgepodge of technology and slapped together apps.

That being said. I love my iPhone. I look forward to the day it is hacked to run Mono and I will develop mono apps for it. Until then I like it for what it is... phone candy, crappy for you but fun to play with.

Microsoft has developed an OS that is strongly resilient to poorly coded third party software? Where can I buy it?!?!

I know you can't be talking about the POS Windows Mobile, or even Vista for that matter.

And OS X isn't as evolved? What in the world do you base that on? Going back to NextStep/OpenStep and on to the current OS X, I don't see where you could be getting that from.

-Zadillo

[sbarton]

The proble is not that Steve is a control freak. The problem is that Apple has talked smack to Microsoft for years about compatibility and reliability. Microsoft has spent billions on developing a strong reliable platform that is resiliant to poorly coded 3rd party apps. Steve and Apple both know that their OS is not as evolved and thus the 'lockdown'. Any clown can create a device with an OS on it which only runs apps that have been tested by the OS manufacturer. That is simple. What is difficult is making that OS secure and reliable and STILL allow other software vendors to ride on top of the OS.

I also highly suspect that the OS is not really Mac OSX and it is simply a kernel rewrite. That would be why posix and OSX based apps will not run on it. Throw in that the Apple developers are not really that quality of a crew and there is no time for a strong API and the OS is a hodgepodge of technology and slapped together apps.

That being said. I love my iPhone. I look forward to the day it is hacked to run Mono and I will develop mono apps for it. Until then I like it for what it is... phone candy, crappy for you but fun to play with.


Umm...as a programmer of both OS X and MS Windows for over 15 years, I have to tell you that your very incorrect. OS X is lightyears ahead of MS in the OS department. The structure of the API's, and Development tools are so far ahead of Windows there is simply no comparison.

But then I'm not sure why I'm even replying to someone that doesn't even understand that - OF COURSE the kernel is different on the iPhone as opposed to the one that runs on an x86 platform.

[DMann]

The proble is not that Steve is a control freak. The problem is that Apple has talked smack to Microsoft for years about compatibility and reliability. Microsoft has spent billions on developing a strong reliable platform that is resiliant to poorly coded 3rd party apps. Steve and Apple both know that their OS is not as evolved and thus the 'lockdown'. Any clown can create a device with an OS on it which only runs apps that have been tested by the OS manufacturer. That is simple. What is difficult is making that OS secure and reliable and STILL allow other software vendors to ride on top of the OS.

I also highly suspect that the OS is not really Mac OSX and it is simply a kernel rewrite. That would be why posix and OSX based apps will not run on it. Throw in that the Apple developers are not really that quality of a crew and there is no time for a strong API and the OS is a hodgepodge of technology and slapped together apps.

That being said. I love my iPhone. I look forward to the day it is hacked to run Mono and I will develop mono apps for it. Until then I like it for what it is... phone candy, crappy for you but fun to play with.

OS X is highly evolved, and has been scaled down to run on an iPhone. Kernel rewrite or not, it is capable of launching and running apps quickly, and multi-tasking, without the reliance of a 3Ghz processor, which is pretty impressive by any standard. Give it at least 6 months before they open it up for 3rd party apps. OS based apps will run on the iPhone, but will need to be scaled down to run at high speeds. Running a bloated MS Word, as it is now, would slow things down quite a bit. I've owned a Pocket PC for eight months - Primitive by comparison on all levels, and unstable, with third party apps and without. A phone is too vital a resource to make vulnerable to freezes caused by crappy third party apps. Who can blame Apple for a lock-down for only the first two months since the iPhone's introduction?