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View Full Version : Steve Jobs is one arrogant sob!


jamdr
Jan 11, 2007, 11:48 PM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand. I've watched previous keynotes and he never seemed this bad. The charisma he's displayed in the past has been replaced with smugness. He acted like the iPhone was the second coming of christ and we were so lucky that he existed to bring it upon us.

When really, this is probably the single worst keynote for Mac users that he has ever given. No hardware updates. No 10.5 preview. Not even iLife and iWork '07! Plus, very people I know are going to be interested in spending $600 + $60 a month or more to use this phone while plenty of us would love to spend $300 or $400 or even more on a full-screen video iPod. God, I wish this keynote was all some nightmare and in the real one Apple actually gave us something we wanted.

nospleen
Jan 11, 2007, 11:55 PM
I like how you speak for the masses, "something WE wanted". I for one was thrilled with the keynote and I am going to buy the iPhone. Just because you were not happy with the keynote, it does not mean the Keynote was horrible. I would have liked some updates on ilife and leopard too, but they will come soon enough.

sethypoo
Jan 12, 2007, 12:02 AM
On one hand, I see what you're saying, and I agree that Steve might have been a little smug. But in a sense I think he earned that smugness. He and all the Apple employees who finally finished the iPhone project.

This was a great keynote, and really shows that Apple is branching out, trying to reach users in new ways. It is obvious to me that both the iPhone and the Apple TV are both geared to lure people from the Windows camp over to Mac OS X. Sure, both work with a PC, but only to a point. The iPhone and the Apple TV will work more seamlessly and smoothly with a Mac in the mix. It is for these reasons that I think this keynote was one of the most important in the last five years.

Also, realize that Apple can always very easily announce iLife or iWork 07 anytime they want, as well as hold a special event for a new widescreen iPod or whatever. I think it is very likely that we will see a iLife and iWork update very soon, before January is up. Apple doesn't want to keep a year old product on their store's front page for too long after the new year begins.

SkyBell
Jan 12, 2007, 12:11 AM
^^ That's true. There doesn't have to be a set time when Apple releases things. Leopard could be out tomorrow. You never know.

EricNau
Jan 12, 2007, 12:12 AM
Steve Jobs has earned the right to be smug, you however, have not.

bousozoku
Jan 12, 2007, 12:13 AM
Steve Jobs has always been a bit smug. In fact, his emotions are rarely reserved but then, that goes for almost anyone running a technology company.

Have you seen Scott McNealy, Bruce Chizen, Larry Ellison, or Bill Gates? Introverts rarely run companies.

Scarlet Fever
Jan 12, 2007, 12:13 AM
i dont think he was arrogant. I think he was genuinely excited about this product, not because it earns the company (and ultimately himself) money, but because it is such a big leap in technology.

And at the start of the keynote, he did say that Mac hardware and software will be announced in a couple of weeks time. Just wait a little while, and i'm sure you'll hear people complaining that the new C2Q MPs dont have their name engraved on the side of the machines:p

twoodcc
Jan 12, 2007, 12:19 AM
Steve Jobs has earned the right to be smug, you however, have not.

ha, that was pretty good. and true really...

they didn't release iwork and ilife probably b/c of Amazon putting it up on their website early

EricNau
Jan 12, 2007, 12:25 AM
they didn't release iwork and ilife probably b/c of Amazon putting it up on their website early
Actually, I believe it wasn't released at MacWorld for two reasons...

1) Time. They keynote ran about 2 hours as is (already above the average). Introducing two new software suites would easily add another 45 minutes (making the event much too long).

2) The focus was clearly the iPhone, and Jobs didn't want anything to steal its glory.

It makes much more sense to introduce the iPhone at MacWorld and have a separate event for Leopard, iLife, and iWork.

Zwhaler
Jan 12, 2007, 12:36 AM
Look, I feel as if with all the rumors that were flying around about the iPhone, WE pressured him to release the iPhone by Macworld. He did what we wanted. But it was such a large project that he had to forgo releasing other products that we wanted as well. We expected too much of him, and for you to act like that he is an ******* for releasing something as revolutionary as the iPhone is just plain indecent. </$0.02>

p0intblank
Jan 12, 2007, 12:36 AM
I thought Steve Jobs did an EXCELLENT job at the keynote this week. It was probably his best one in a while. Maybe you just fail to recognize the good side of things?

absolut_mac
Jan 12, 2007, 12:41 AM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand....

Don't take CEO's public persona's (or any public figure for that matter) too seriously. It's all about marketing and keeping Wall Street happy.

Quboid
Jan 12, 2007, 12:41 AM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand. I've watched previous keynotes and he never seemed this bad. The charisma he's displayed in the past has been replaced with smugness. He acted like the iPhone was the second coming of christ and we were so lucky that he existed to bring it upon us.

When really, this is probably the single worst keynote for Mac users that he has ever given. No hardware updates. No 10.5 preview. Not even iLife and iWork '07! Plus, very people I know are going to be interested in spending $600 + $60 a month or more to use this phone while plenty of us would love to spend $300 or $400 or even more on a full-screen video iPod. God, I wish this keynote was all some nightmare and in the real one Apple actually gave us something we wanted.

i totally agree with you. "aint that just cool?" "probably the best photo management program in the world".

he's was pretty hard to stand.

SkyBell
Jan 12, 2007, 12:44 AM
i totally agree with you. "aint that just cool?" "probably the best photo management program in the world".

Those are not smug, those are facts!

In case you can't tell, I'm serious.

CanadaRAM
Jan 12, 2007, 12:44 AM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand....
i totally agree with you. "aint that just cool?" "probably the best photo management program in the world" he's was pretty hard to stand.

But you watched. Again.

Q.E.D.

Scarlet Fever
Jan 12, 2007, 12:45 AM
Look, I feel as if with all the rumors that were flying around about the iPhone, WE pressured him to release the iPhone by Macworld. He did what we wanted. But it was such a large project that he had to forgo releasing other products that we wanted as well. We expected too much of him, and for you to act like that he is an ******* for releasing something as revolutionary as the iPhone is just plain indecent. </$0.02>

seriously, that has to be the most measured, reasonable post i've read about this topic.

Quboid
Jan 12, 2007, 12:54 AM
Those are not smug, those are facts!

In case you can't tell, I'm serious.

"aint that just cool? cute white text tricks?"

Use the apple dictionary and look up the word fact.:confused:

iW00t
Jan 12, 2007, 01:09 AM
That guy was an orphan who made himself into a billionaire with no help from anyone. Until you can do the same he has every reason to be smug.

Even Bill Gates, for what it is worth, grew up in a nice sheltered family with rich parents.

Blue Velvet
Jan 12, 2007, 01:12 AM
Not smug at all. Thought he comes across as reasonably down-to-earth... Just someone confident in their ability to do a good job and with an awareness of themselves and their qualities. Success does that to people.

MacNut
Jan 12, 2007, 02:11 AM
You could make the argument that all of Silicon Valley is smug.

bearbo
Jan 12, 2007, 02:19 AM
but because it is such a big leap in technology.


who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?

as revolutionary as the iPhone
remind me, again, what's revolutionary about iPhone?

MacNut
Jan 12, 2007, 02:20 AM
who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?And only 200 new patents.

Music_Producer
Jan 12, 2007, 02:27 AM
Arrogant? Are you blind? He looked proud, almost as though the iPhone was his child or something. He was proud that they came up with a beautiful phone, with amazing features. Photo management on a phone.. have you ever tried photo features on all the phones that are out in the market? Sheesh.. and at the end he thanked everybody who worked on the phone, and all the families. Does that strike you as someone who is arrogant or someone who is truly appreciative of what all the employees do?

I can't quite understand what it is with everyone out here. Throwing a fit because no mac product was released? Um, they just launched a new product line.. get it? A new product.. a phone which runs OS X, looks fantastic and has the best features and user interface I have ever seen. Yeah, sure, it could have more features.. but I'm sure they put the best possible in it while keeping it at a reasonable price. This macworld was all about the new consumer electronics line of products. This doesn't mean they will slow down any mac-computer developments.. on the contrary. More revenue from ipod, iphone, etc. will allow them to make better computers. It just strikes me that everyone here is a whining baby with no clue about how a company can carry out business. "I'm gonna kill myself because they made a phone.. i want my 16 core mac pro right now or else i'll kill somebody!"

People here complain when Apple doesn't come out with a phone.. and they complain more when they do come out with it. And they actually psycho-analyze Steve Jobs, who the hell cares if you thought he was arrogant? If I were him, I would probably be an evil dictator. Knowing that I own a highly innovative company that has taken the world by storm with a line of fantastic products... please, I find Trump, Tyra Banks (my wife watches her show all the time) etc. much much more arrogant. If you really want to see arrogance.. you should see those 'My sweet 16' shows. :rolleyes:

SkyBell
Jan 12, 2007, 02:27 AM
"aint that just cool? cute white text tricks?"

Use the apple dictionary and look up the word fact.:confused:

In case you can't tell, I was being sarcastic about being serious.:D

Music_Producer
Jan 12, 2007, 02:28 AM
who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?


remind me, again, what's revolutionary about iPhone?

I would love to see you come up with something revolutionary.

The hardware, what do you want them to do? Come out with a floating phone? They do have to make something that is relatively affordable. They can't possibly make a platinum apple phone with surround sound speakers floating around it and tag it at $20,000. You would complain anyway.

bearbo
Jan 12, 2007, 02:29 AM
And only 200 new patents.

please tell me you know about the process of obtaining a patent.

if i have the money, i can come up with 5 things, right now, to be patented. but you don't care, do you.

point being, it's not hard to get patent... as long as you fulfill those 3 requirement (novelty, non-obviousness, usefulness), and after a few yrs, you will be grant a patent.

the lacks of buttons on a phone could ne novel and non-obvious, but is that really THAT exciting? sure it's great and all, but c'mon, it's not revolutionary.

i'm not saying iphone is crap, it's just disappointing from all the hype.

calculus
Jan 12, 2007, 02:30 AM
i'm not saying iphone is crap, it's just disappointing from all the hype.

What else were you hoping for?

bearbo
Jan 12, 2007, 02:36 AM
I would love to see you come up with something revolutionary.

just because i can't come up with something revolutionary doesn't mean i can't say other things aren't.


The hardware, what do you want them to do? Come out with a floating phone? They do have to make something that is relatively affordable. They can't possibly make a platinum apple phone with surround sound speakers floating around it and tag it at $20,000. You would complain anyway.

hm. i think the point of revolutionary is so its function is not so obvious?

and just for the record, i don't want platium apple phone with surround sound speaker floating around it. ew.

again, i'm not saying iphone is crap, it's not the best thing in the world. gah

What else were you hoping for?

if he want to call it revolutionary, i was hoping for something revolutionary.

calculus
Jan 12, 2007, 02:42 AM
i was hoping for something revolutionary.

Overthrow of the government?

bearbo
Jan 12, 2007, 02:45 AM
Overthrow of the government?
:confused: i suppose that's the only definition for revolutionary for you? if so, what do you see in iPhone that's revolutionary?



And only 200 new patents.

is there anything other than the fact there's "200 new patents" (where did you get this anyway?) that you find revolutionary about iPhone?

Apple is not a religion, Steve Jobs is not God.

i'm outa this thread.

MrKobie
Jan 12, 2007, 02:50 AM
The iPhone looks pretty cool, but it's a logical progression - certainly not a revolution. If it was so revolutionary there wouldn't have been so many predictions about it. Instead, a lot of the predictions were actually aiming too high.

And it really is this fan-boy attitude of 'Steve is our hero, everything he does is wonderful' that keeps apple products so expensive. If you were all a little more critical they'd have to work a little harder to earn your money.

600 bucks for a phone (with contract) with only 8gigs of ram for my music? It's not 3G. It's got WiFi but doesn't do VOIP? I think I'll pass on this one.

dalvin200
Jan 12, 2007, 02:56 AM
anyone seen this article on the register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/11/jobs_mansion/) about SJ's mansion?

can't ppl leave him alone? lol!!

redAPPLE
Jan 12, 2007, 03:01 AM
please tell me you know about the process of obtaining a patent.

if i have the money, i can come up with 5 things, right now, to be patented. but you don't care, do you.

point being, it's not hard to get patent... as long as you fulfill those 3 requirement (novelty, non-obviousness, usefulness), and after a few yrs, you will be grant a patent.

the lacks of buttons on a phone could ne novel and non-obvious, but is that really THAT exciting? sure it's great and all, but c'mon, it's not revolutionary.

i'm not saying iphone is crap, it's just disappointing from all the hype.

no offense to you but... if you didn't like all the hype, you should stop reading rumor sites before announced events...

but again, only a deaf and blind person (again no offense to those who are) wouldn't have heard at least of a rumor about an apple phone. a normal educated adult with internet connection and/or tv has heard about this rumor at least once in the last few months...

Music_Producer
Jan 12, 2007, 04:18 AM
The iPhone looks pretty cool, but it's a logical progression - certainly not a revolution. If it was so revolutionary there wouldn't have been so many predictions about it. Instead, a lot of the predictions were actually aiming too high.

And it really is this fan-boy attitude of 'Steve is our hero, everything he does is wonderful' that keeps apple products so expensive. If you were all a little more critical they'd have to work a little harder to earn your money.

600 bucks for a phone (with contract) with only 8gigs of ram for my music? It's not 3G. It's got WiFi but doesn't do VOIP? I think I'll pass on this one.

Um, it's an ipod first.. and then a phone. *Only* 8 gigs for music? I would love to see you walk around with a Seagate 400 gb hard drive stuck to your ear.

Why don't you check out the Sony Ericsson W850i? Its got 4 gigs.. no camera, no wifi, no Safari, hell.. no OS X .. no phone has the photo management features of the iphone.. and it retails for $699.

And you think the iphone is expensive for what it has.. complain, complain. If you can't afford it, and you don't need it.. don't complain. It's absolutely stupid to compare pricing to other ridiculous phones when they don't even come close.

Music_Producer
Jan 12, 2007, 04:20 AM
and just for the record, i don't want platium apple phone with surround sound speaker floating around it. ew.


I think people's first reaction to see a phone with speakers floating in air.. would be 'wow.. WTF!' instead of 'ew'

rdowns
Jan 12, 2007, 04:36 AM
is there anything other than the fact there's "200 new patents" (where did you get this anyway?) that you find revolutionary about iPhone?


Here you go.

iW00t
Jan 12, 2007, 04:47 AM
I think people's first reaction to see a phone with speakers floating in air.. would be 'wow.. WTF!' instead of 'ew'

I prefer that technology to be made larger and turned into... anti crash aircraft, aircraft that flies on anti gravity and by definition will never crash.

A bunch of floating speakers, who cares! Noise pollution man!

MrKobie
Jan 12, 2007, 04:51 AM
blah blah blah...

You see, this is my point. Zero criticism. Steve Jobs s***s on a stage and you all gather around to share the love.

If it's an iPod first then why's it got such ****** capacity? Why's it called the iPhone? Seriously, are you a genuine music producer that's happy to walk around with just 8 gigs worth of music?

I don't carry around a 400 gig seagate hard drive - I carry around a 60 gig iPod because it does a great job. I don't have whatever phone you were talking about because I don't need a phone with a crappy mp3 player - I have an iPod. I'm guessing the price you quote is without a contract too.

This thing costs so much because Jobs knows you people will buy anything he tells you to. Seriously people, is it so bad to question things?

Revolution? Tell me when it starts.

FleurDuMal
Jan 12, 2007, 05:10 AM
Steve Jobs s***s on a stage and you all gather around to share the love.


Steve Jobs released the iCrap? Cool. I gotta get me some of that.

Abstract
Jan 12, 2007, 07:59 AM
Look, I feel as if with all the rumors that were flying around about the iPhone, WE pressured him to release the iPhone by Macworld. He did what we wanted. But it was such a large project that he had to forgo releasing other products that we wanted as well. We expected too much of him, and for you to act like that he is an ******* for releasing something as revolutionary as the iPhone is just plain indecent. </$0.02>

Good answer. I never thought about it that way. :)

But you watched. Again.

Q.E.D.

Haha, zing!


who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?

remind me, again, what's revolutionary about iPhone?


You seem to look at the iPhone as a phone + media device. You're right, it's not the first one. It's not even the first touch screen device. However, you're looking at this iPhone as the sum of its parts when usability has to be taken into account.

If I had the same mindset as you and many others, I could have easily said in 2001, "The iPod? It's just an mp3 player with a harddrive in it. A few companies do that already." My point is that you would have never considered ANY Apple phone as revolutionary unless it covered entirely new ground, like holographic video or something. Sometimes, just making it easier for people to do the things they already do is a huge step.

Abstract
Jan 12, 2007, 08:10 AM
If it's an iPod first then why's it got such ****** capacity? Why's it called the iPhone? Seriously, are you a genuine music producer that's happy to walk around with just 8 gigs worth of music?

I don't carry around a 400 gig seagate hard drive - I carry around a 60 gig iPod because it does a great job.
And I have an iPod Nano 4 GB because it does a great job, while remaining small and thin. If you were expecting an HDD based phone from Apple, you're crazy. They wouldn't want to make such a fat phone, and I wouldn't want one. Fact is that an mp3 player with 8 GB capacity is on the high end in todays market.


I don't have whatever phone you were talking about because I don't need a phone with a crappy mp3 player - I have an iPod.
You're right, that phone has a crappy mp3 player. It's also expensive as hell for what it does (ie: it's a phone, and not much else), which was his point.


This thing costs so much because Jobs knows you people will buy anything he tells you to. Seriously people, is it so bad to question things?

Revolution? Tell me when it starts.
Speak for yourself. I'm not buying it, but I can still see why it's a good product. You assume that all Apple users just buy whatever Apple makes. You're wrong. However, I'll give credit when credit is due, and the iPhone has an incredible UI. Every device is about the UI. Why? Because people have to USE the bloody thing after they buy it. If it's unusable, then I don't care what functions it is capable because it may be so difficult to use that I'd avoid it. So the fact that the UI looks like quite a feat, and the fact that it can do some things others can't do makes it expensive. It's not even that much more expensive than some other phones out there.

Music_Producer
Jan 12, 2007, 08:35 AM
You see, this is my point. Zero criticism. Steve Jobs ***** on a stage and you all gather around to share the love.

If it's an iPod first then why's it got such ****** capacity? Why's it called the iPhone? Seriously, are you a genuine music producer that's happy to walk around with just 8 gigs worth of music?

I don't carry around a 400 gig seagate hard drive - I carry around a 60 gig iPod because it does a great job. I don't have whatever phone you were talking about because I don't need a phone with a crappy mp3 player - I have an iPod. I'm guessing the price you quote is without a contract too.

This thing costs so much because Jobs knows you people will buy anything he tells you to. Seriously people, is it so bad to question things?

Revolution? Tell me when it starts.

As a genuine music producer I have more than enough devices to listen to music on. I actually, don't like the quality of mp3s/aacs.. whatever. You do realize how slim the phone is right? Oh.. yes, its an ipod, and a phone.. and a fully functional internet device.

The point here is not that people can question something.. it's that people automatically attack a product without even realizing that it's the best out there. And I don't automatically praise every Apple product there is. If something is worth the praise, then yes, it's called for.. and rightly so.

Rather, the people who post 'what? its only got 8 gb? pffft.. its only got safari? pfft.. photo management? bah humbug.. quad gsm? crap.. 2 megapixel cam? not impressed'

I want YOU to come up with the phone of your dreams, keep it slim so it looks like a phone and not a Palm Treo piece of rock.. and make it priced comparable to other phones.. or rather, a little lower than the other high-end phones out there. I swear, everyone here obviously has the skills to manufacture a high-end phone out of their a$$.

COMPARE this phone to the other high-end phones.. and THEN talk. I did buy fancy phones.. Palm Treos were a nightmare. I hate Motorola's UI.. Sony Ericsson and Nokia were the only functional phones. But I saw the iPhone's UI.. features, etc.. and the price is right. I'm not buying the iphone simply because it's an apple product. If sony had made a phone like this.. I would have bought it as well.

With every popular product.. or creative company.. comes along a bunch of retards who think every other brand out there is better. I will forever be grateful to OS X simply because of the productivity it provides, which is good for me and my career. A phone with OS X and features comparable to other top notch phones (and better)? I'm sold.

And by the way.. this is MACrumors. Yes, we mac addicts do share the love. I'm getting the feeling that people who can't afford this stuff.. seem to do the most whining and bit@ching, and find every possible flaw there is.

I prefer that technology to be made larger and turned into... anti crash aircraft, aircraft that flies on anti gravity and by definition will never crash.

A bunch of floating speakers, who cares! Noise pollution man!


Um, my point in the first place was that people would say "Wow.. how the hell did they manage to make speakers that float in the air" .. as in a physical feat that is impossible to achieve. I'm sure if I saw something levitate.. for e.g. speakers.. or for your sake.. anti-crash aircraft.. I wouldn't say 'EW'

This is a discussion related to phones.. and the ipod combo.. and hence that example.

TequilaBoobs
Jan 12, 2007, 08:45 AM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand. I've watched previous keynotes and he never seemed this bad. The charisma he's displayed in the past has been replaced with smugness. He acted like the iPhone was the second coming of christ and we were so lucky that he existed to bring it upon us.

When really, this is probably the single worst keynote for Mac users that he has ever given. No hardware updates. No 10.5 preview. Not even iLife and iWork '07! Plus, very people I know are going to be interested in spending $600 + $60 a month or more to use this phone while plenty of us would love to spend $300 or $400 or even more on a full-screen video iPod. God, I wish this keynote was all some nightmare and in the real one Apple actually gave us something we wanted.

wow jamr u have big balls, coming to macrumors to call Steve Jobs an SOB. that's like going to a kkk rally and saying david duke is retarded. just be prepared to be flamed!

mac-er
Jan 12, 2007, 08:46 AM
Steve wasn't smug. He's a good salesman.

Plus, what you were seeing was his RDF...apparently you are impervious to it.

takao
Jan 12, 2007, 09:13 AM
so far i haven't seen much from "os x " on the iPhone except widgets which is hardly something which defines OS X for me

what revolutionary things does it really have what others don't have ? eyecandy and perhaps easier syncing ? a proximity sensor ? perhaps photo managment and Wlan (but without VOIP)

does the iphone sync with outlook ? if not: say good bye to the business market

it's a nice product, don't get me wrong, but it's expensive for a phone

quagmire
Jan 12, 2007, 09:38 AM
Jobs wasn't smug at all IMHO. He was excited about it. You should of clearly seen that. He made a few jokes( like that prank call to Starbucks), but that was just his normal old humor. The only problem I had was with the order he stated iPod, phone, and internet communicator. The iPod and phone got good responses and then the internet communicator the people went, " ummm.... ok." I would of went internet communicator-> iPod-> phone. Get louder responses step and save the best for last. Other then that the keynote was good, if not one of his best.

For you iPhone haters, you people seem to think hardware makes the product revolutionary. Since you think so, you're right then. The iPhone in terms of hardware is nothing special. Got the standard CPU, standard 2.5G things, etc. But, there is more things that make it revolutionary then hardware. The UI is what makes the iPhone revolutionary. How you navigate the iPhone is revolutionary. How easy it is to use it and navigate through it. Ok, so it uses flash instead of an HD. How do most people treat their cell phones? Most people I see their cell phones are beat up. Scratches galore, etc. I bet the HD would be killed within weeks. Not to mention the extra thickness and power usage. 8 GB is the highest affordable flash you can put in a product right now so Apple didn't skimp out on that. Plus, the iPhone is a phone first and foremost. The iPod part is just a feature on it. I love how someone avoided the question, " What else were you hoping for?" Doesn't answer the question at all. Just continues the BS on how the iPhone isn't revolutionary.

For most part, the iPhone haters simply don't get the point of Apple. Why Apple makes the products the way they do. They have been brainwashed by other companies throwing in technology galore into their products. What is the point of adding even more technology if the current technology in the product isn't easy to use? You're just going to confuse the crap out of your customer base. That is where Apple steps in. Apple takes the technology and makes it easier to use. So Apple doesn't always use the latest and greatest stuff in their products. Look at the original Mac. Nothing really new in there hardware wise. But, it changed how we used a computer. Fast forward to 2001 when the iPod was introduced. It was just another HD based MP3 player. Had nothing the competition. The iPod did what the other MP3 players could do. Yet, what made the iPod revolutionary was the way we navigated through an MP3 player and how we used it overall( the iTunes/iPod integration for example). It was easy to use and put music on it.

PS: If we bought everything Apple made why didn't the Newton and Cube sell well?

someguy
Jan 12, 2007, 09:40 AM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand. I've watched previous keynotes and he never seemed this bad. The charisma he's displayed in the past has been replaced with smugness. He acted like the iPhone was the second coming of christ and we were so lucky that he existed to bring it upon us.

When really, this is probably the single worst keynote for Mac users that he has ever given. No hardware updates. No 10.5 preview. Not even iLife and iWork '07! Plus, very people I know are going to be interested in spending $600 + $60 a month or more to use this phone while plenty of us would love to spend $300 or $400 or even more on a full-screen video iPod. God, I wish this keynote was all some nightmare and in the real one Apple actually gave us something we wanted.
This may have already been said, I haven't read this thread because this topic has been done to death IMO, but I sense more arrogance in your single post than in all of Steve's keynotes combined.

Rodimus Prime
Jan 12, 2007, 09:41 AM
As a genuine music producer I have more than enough devices to listen to music on. I actually, don't like the quality of mp3s/aacs.. whatever. You do realize how slim the phone is right? Oh.. yes, its an ipod, and a phone.. and a fully functional internet device.

The point here is not that people can question something.. it's that people automatically attack a product without even realizing that it's the best out there. And I don't automatically praise every Apple product there is. If something is worth the praise, then yes, it's called for.. and rightly so.

Rather, the people who post 'what? its only got 8 gb? pffft.. its only got safari? pfft.. photo management? bah humbug.. quad gsm? crap.. 2 megapixel cam? not impressed'

I want YOU to come up with the phone of your dreams, keep it slim so it looks like a phone and not a Palm Treo piece of rock.. and make it priced comparable to other phones.. or rather, a little lower than the other high-end phones out there. I swear, everyone here obviously has the skills to manufacture a high-end phone out of their a$$.

COMPARE this phone to the other high-end phones.. and THEN talk. I did buy fancy phones.. Palm Treos were a nightmare. I hate Motorola's UI.. Sony Ericsson and Nokia were the only functional phones. But I saw the iPhone's UI.. features, etc.. and the price is right. I'm not buying the iphone simply because it's an apple product. If sony had made a phone like this.. I would have bought it as well.

With every popular product.. or creative company.. comes along a bunch of retards who think every other brand out there is better. I will forever be grateful to OS X simply because of the productivity it provides, which is good for me and my career. A phone with OS X and features comparable to other top notch phones (and better)? I'm sold.

And by the way.. this is MACrumors. Yes, we mac addicts do share the love. I'm getting the feeling that people who can't afford this stuff.. seem to do the most whining and bit@ching, and find every possible flaw there is.

you seem to of listed good reasons for why you wanted it. I had the other reaction to the phone. I personally think the interface is very poor. The touch screen only I honestly hate. Reason is because trying to type on a touch screen is a true pain. Plus it requires me looking at the phone to do it. With buttons I can do a lot of stuff with out looking. and having to look at my phone to use my speed dial would bother me. And based on the stuff that was shown it just looks like it has a lot of issues in it that would just annoy the crap out of me.

But then again for those very same reasons I am not going to get an iPhone. Even if it only costed like 200 bucks with the contract. It is not what I want out of a phone.

SMM
Jan 12, 2007, 09:45 AM
you seem to of listed good reasons for why you wanted it. I had the other reaction to the phone. I personally think the interface is very poor. The touch screen only I honestly hate. Reason is because trying to type on a touch screen is a true pain. Plus it requires me looking at the phone to do it. With buttons I can do a lot of stuff with out looking. and having to look at my phone to use my speed dial would bother me. And based on the stuff that was shown it just looks like it has a lot of issues in it that would just annoy the crap out of me.

But then again for those very same reasons I am not going to get an iPhone. Even if it only costed like 200 bucks with the contract. It is not what I want out of a phone.

The bloody thing is not even released yet and you are already an expert? Give me a break.

takao
Jan 12, 2007, 10:22 AM
The bloody thing is not even released yet and you are already an expert? Give me a break.

the iphone not being out makes it even worse
especially for the european market where it's still 1 year away and you can get UMTS phones _today_ .etc

can you download music from itms on your iphone ?
one provider here offers such a service except that you pay 1 buck for the phone and the contract is somewhere around 25 or so per month ( 0cent per minute into 4 networks) but you get the top 40 charts for free every month or something like that

1 year is a lot in the mobile phone business

edit: oh and i just found the W850i and it _has_ a 2mp camera around here (but only 1 GB)
but it only costs _3_ bucks with a contract

valdore
Jan 12, 2007, 03:50 PM
I guess I missed any smugness in the keynote thanks to not watching the entirety of the boring thing. :rolleyes:

Anuba
Jan 12, 2007, 03:59 PM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand. I've watched previous keynotes and he never seemed this bad. The charisma he's displayed in the past has been replaced with smugness. He acted like the iPhone was the second coming of christ and we were so lucky that he existed to bring it upon us.

Yeah. I love the products but I loathe the man. Then again I'm just a regular user and not one of those scary MacDroids. You know, the ones with the blank stare, the ones that repeat mantras about Windows viruses and the dreaded blue screen of death... some even believe Windows gives you AIDS. They're kind of like scientologists or Jehova's Witnesses. But you gotta keep in mind those were the ones he was addressing, as always. Hence the smugness. The Keynote is his church and he is their god. Notice the constant applause and cheering over stuff like, oh, some new button or menu item. Mac will always be my second platform because these people just scare the poop out of me.

SMM
Jan 12, 2007, 04:12 PM
Yeah. I love the products but I loathe the man. Then again I'm just a regular user and not one of those scary MacDroids. You know, the ones with the blank stare, the ones that repeat mantras about Windows viruses and the dreaded blue screen of death... some even believe Windows gives you AIDS. They're kind of like scientologists or Jehova's Witnesses. But you gotta keep in mind those were the ones he was addressing, as always. Hence the smugness. The Keynote is his church and he is their god. Notice the constant applause and cheering over stuff like, oh, some new button or menu item. Mac will always be my second platform because these people just scare the poop out of me.

Whatever you are attempting to sell is failing the 'smell' test (if you follow me). You do not know the man I am fairly certain. I am always suspicious about how well screwed on people are, who see others as mindless droids and cannot keep their bowel movements under control. :confused:

andy89
Jan 12, 2007, 04:15 PM
I hope they sell it sim-free. I like the iphone, but not the phone part.

The whole '30 years is just the beggining' thing got me excited.
...and then the iphone. Thats a bit dissapointing.

mrkgoo
Jan 12, 2007, 04:21 PM
C'mon...this is the CEO of Apple presenting at Macworld. He was hardly going to be subdued, not with a bunch of fanboys and shareholders present.

Anyway, I saw most of the iPhone stuff as excitement rather than arrogance. It's a reason I believe the ApplTV was 'previewed' last year, so all focus could be on the iPhone. I think Steve was genuinely excited to present it to us.

However, I do think that the pie charts explainingthe market share of Zune is a bit underhanded. If Microsft did the same thing with market share for OS, it'd be the same. 2% market share is pretty damned good for Zune, considering competition in the market - any other mp3 player would love to get that kind of market share. I'd prefer it if Apple focused more on selling theri own products in this regard, than downplaying others.

Anuba
Jan 12, 2007, 05:03 PM
Whatever you are attempting to sell is failing the 'smell' test (if you follow me). You do not know the man I am fairly certain. I am always suspicious about how well screwed on people are, who see others as mindless droids and cannot keep their bowel movements under control. :confused:
Well, if you haven't met any of these mindless droids, consider yourself lucky. I've met enough of them to be sufficiently spooked. I've got a couple of them on a forum I moderate; one has a link to Apple store in his signature and spends most of his time posting the most contrived lies about Windows you could imagine (how you cannot switch a PC on without being drowned in a barrage of viruses etc), and the rest of his time coercing PC users into switching. It's quite clear from his descriptions of Windows he hasn't touched a PC since circa 1996, and any assurances that Windows has come a long way in terms of stability and security since Win95 are met with a kind of "lalalalalalalala...." At one point he insisted that a Mac Mini G4 1.42GHz is much faster than any PC ever made. When faced with real life benchmark tests where a midrange PC blasted the Mini into oblivion, he maintained that it was due to poor knowledge of Mac optimization on the part of the developers (whom I know to be Mac enthusiasts who port the software to Windows). This is just one example, over the years I've stumbled across way too many to list here.

It's great that people are enthusiastic about products, and most Mac users are regular joes who are just that, but it is my personal opinion that there also exists a 'Church of Apple' with 'members' who are smug, patronizing, holier-than-thou, basking in the glory of some perceived exclusivity and enlightenment, borderline brainwashed lodge brothers with a special handshake. It sickens me to no end. Again, this is merely one man's opinion, I know you wouldn't agree so let's just leave it there.

Regarding Steve, you're darn tootin' I don't know him. Only seen him in blurry keynote webcasts.

valdore
Jan 12, 2007, 05:06 PM
^Anuba, that description of the macdroid is funny as hell!

Anuba
Jan 12, 2007, 05:16 PM
I hope they sell it sim-free. I like the iphone, but not the phone part.

The whole '30 years is just the beggining' thing got me excited.
...and then the iphone. Thats a bit dissapointing.

Well, I'm sure the iPhone was meant as a mere appetizer for the 30th anniversary... not "Well, it took us 30 years but dagnammit, we finally managed to make a thingamabob that rings!"

^Anuba, that description of the macdroid is funny as hell!
Funny... yet disturbing. You know, I just want people to feel free to choose any computer platform they want, and lord knows we could use a few more Mac people - to, if nothing else, put more pressure on Microsoft and rock their boat, they're way too complacent. But I know a lot of people who feel alienated by Mac for two main reasons - one, the macdroids. Nobody wants to join that club. Two, Apple's infantile and insulting marketing. Slagging the competition is as low as anyone can sink. I've seen pimps with more dignified advertising methods than that. "Hello I'm a Mac / ...and I'm a PC, blah blah". Don't they realize how bad of an idea it is to brandish 97% of the world's computer users as complete idiots? They might as well say "Hello. You're an absolute moron with no brain and no taste, and I despise you utterly. Now please buy our stuff." :confused:

aristobrat
Jan 12, 2007, 05:20 PM
who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology?
IMO, what's revolutionary is the combination of existing technology into a single device. Is there something on the market that does everything the iPhone does as well as it appears to do it?

if he want to call it revolutionary, i was hoping for something revolutionary.
Someone asked you what you were hoping for, and that's it? You call it not revolutionary, but you can't give a single idea of what you think revolutionary is? :confused:

Seriously people, is it so bad to question things?
And the two things you question are the capacity and the price-point? It seemed pretty obvious to me that regarding capacity, for battery reasons, they'd be using flash (like the nano) instead of a hard drive like the iPod. It's quite simple with 5 minutes worth of Smart Playlists to keep a regular stream of good music flowing to a device that has less storage space than your 60GB iPod.

does the iphone sync with outlook ? if not: say good bye to the business market
Did I miss the part of the keynote where Steve said this was aimed at the business market? :eek:

the iphone not being out makes it even worse
especially for the european market where it's still 1 year away and you can get UMTS phones _today_ .etc
Think Nokia or SE will have something similar on the market in a year? :)

SkyBell
Jan 12, 2007, 05:28 PM
He may be arrogant, but he deserves it. He's turned Apple from near bankruptcy to some of it's highest profits ever in just 10 years.

If anything, he SHOULD be arrogant.

aristobrat
Jan 12, 2007, 05:30 PM
it is my personal opinion that there also exists a 'Church of Apple' with 'members' who are smug, patronizing, holier-than-thou, basking in the glory of some perceived exclusivity and enlightenment, borderline brainwashed lodge brothers with a special handshake. It sickens me to no end. Again, this is merely one man's opinion, I know you wouldn't agree so let's just leave it there.
IMO, I think the general religion is "smug, matronizing, hollier-than-thou, etc", and it breaks down into sub-regions called Apple, Microsoft, Coke, Pepsi, etc, each with their own church. I'm not a fan of the Apple people that are like that, nor am I a fan of the Microsoft people who act that way either.

Well, I'm sure the iPhone was meant as a mere appetizer for the 30th anniversary... not "Well, it took us 30 years but dagnammit, we finally managed to make a thingamabob that rings!"
I was glad to hear Steve say "over the course of the next several months, we're going to roll out some awesome stuff for the Mac." :)

Anuba
Jan 12, 2007, 05:44 PM
Someone asked you what you were hoping for, and that's it? You call it not revolutionary, but you can't give a single idea of what you think revolutionary is? :confused:
Ideally, a revolutionary product is a completely new concept, something nobody thought of before. If all the iPhone mockups out there had missed the mark, the iPhone would be revolutionary, but there were quite a few that were based on the idea of a huge display and no keys. The iPhone is a mishmash of existing concepts that have been refined, polished and rolled into one. While the multi-touch screen is a milestone of sorts, other aspects of the iPhone are very yesterday. The modest memory, for one, and for another the absence of 3G which is somewhat of a shocker - 3G has been a staple of top-of-the-line phones for years now.

Did I miss the part of the keynote where Steve said this was aimed at the business market? :eek:
If not the business market, then who? It can't be kids, as it has no games, and allegedly no support for custom ringtones. It can't be business users, since they'll want Outlook or Lotus Notes sync, and possibly a navigator, and they'll most definitely not want to use frickin' iTunes to sync up. Which leaves, I dunno... Mac enthusiasts and 30-somethings who are hoping for 15 minutes of fame by the watercooler? He did say his goal was 10 million units.

The Scotsman
Jan 12, 2007, 06:16 PM
Just to join in on this thread, Yes I agree that Steve was smug very smug to be precise but he was just very proud of the product he has worked on for a long time and believes that it is the best thing that is going to be on the market. I think he has a right to be smug.

I just hope his smugness is warranted when the iPhone is released (or whetever it will be called by then) I think the iPhone although brilliant in looks, functionality and UI has several short comings and hope that these will be ironed out quickly in time for the 2nd gen iPhone.

bousozoku
Jan 12, 2007, 06:25 PM
He may be arrogant, but he deserves it. He's turned Apple from near bankruptcy to some of it's highest profits ever in just 10 years.

If anything, he SHOULD be arrogant.

He didn't do it by himself. There was a whole company working on things. The difference is that he had a vision of what should be happening.

It took smart people in all areas to make Apple what it is today.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 12, 2007, 06:27 PM
He didn't do it by himself. There was a whole company working on things. The difference is that he had a vision of what should be happening.

It took smart people in all areas to make Apple what it is today.True but who gets all the millions and stock options? not the workers.

D*I*S_Frontman
Jan 12, 2007, 06:28 PM
Look, people--

There is nothing amazingly new or innovative technology-wise in the iPhone. Everything in it has been done before, and it does not even employ some of the latest (3G) features that its competition does.

Niether did the original iPod. Grasshopper, go and learn from Thread #500. People thought that product was "crippled" by high price and no new technology ("An overpriced HDD-based mp3 player with a B&W LCD display? Who cares?").

I predict that Apple will have 20% of the entire cell phone market and 50+% of the high-end communication device within three years of its June release. That will mean 150-200 million units.

In the intervening six months before formal release, or shortly thereafter, some of the smaller issues will be attended to (like the ability to at least open and review MS files, sync'ing issues, interfacing w/iTunes Store, what have you). The rest won't matter.

Apple does not sell products, people. They sell personal productivity, great user experiences, wow and chic. This phone phone meets all of those criteria. For consumer devices like these, a streamlined and intuitive user experience is like money in the bank. The only thing innovative about the iPod is the stupid click-wheel, and yet 75% of the ENTIRE aac/mp3 player market is controlled by ONE COMPANY. The one with the click-wheel.

So it is with this product. If the final build quality of the unit proves durable, reliable, and cosmetically superior, and the unit functions as billed, it will not only make a huge forray into that giant market, but essentially create a new one.

Right now, the "smartphone" is really a piece of business equipment. Apple just invented the quintessential "consumer" version of the same product. It doesn't matter that it is expensive or lacks some high-end features. If is actually works as effortlessly and seamlessly as billed, it will become another cultural icon. Apple marketing will see to it that everyone on the planet is aware of how "cool" this device is.

I'm glad to be on record here. I hope that when this thread is reviewed three years from now, everyone is talking about the foolish naysayers of Thread #3245138 (or whatever this one is).

gregorsamsa
Jan 12, 2007, 06:29 PM
Well, if you haven't met any of these mindless droids, consider yourself lucky. I've met enough of them to be sufficiently spooked. I've got a couple of them on a forum I moderate; one has a link to Apple store in his signature and spends most of his time posting the most contrived lies about Windows you could imagine (how you cannot switch a PC on without being drowned in a barrage of viruses etc), and the rest of his time coercing PC users into switching. It's quite clear from his descriptions of Windows he hasn't touched a PC since circa 1996, and any assurances that Windows has come a long way in terms of stability and security since Win95 are met with a kind of "lalalalalalalala...." At one point he insisted that a Mac Mini G4 1.42GHz is much faster than any PC ever made. When faced with real life benchmark tests where a midrange PC blasted the Mini into oblivion, he maintained that it was due to poor knowledge of Mac optimization on the part of the developers (whom I know to be Mac enthusiasts who port the software to Windows). This is just one example, over the years I've stumbled across way too many to list here.

It's great that people are enthusiastic about products, and most Mac users are regular joes who are just that, but it is my personal opinion that there also exists a 'Church of Apple' with 'members' who are smug, patronizing, holier-than-thou, basking in the glory of some perceived exclusivity and enlightenment, borderline brainwashed lodge brothers with a special handshake. It sickens me to no end. Again, this is merely one man's opinion, I know you wouldn't agree so let's just leave it there.

Regarding Steve, you're darn tootin' I don't know him. Only seen him in blurry keynote webcasts.

I consider your post to be spot on! I'm a Mac owner, but I must confess that I find most of my PC-owning friends to be refreshingly free of the type of smug, sycophantic, elitism some Mac people can't help but exhibit. Many PC owners I know wouldn't even recognize Steve Jobs, Steve Ballmer, etc. if they were introduced to them in the street.

Their sole concern is with having the best computer they can get for their individual needs, the software they can run, etc., not hero worship. Period. Some of them rate Macs quite highly. However, their view tends to be that, unless they're able to afford pro models, they're somewhat compelled to buy PCs because of graphical deficiencies in most consumer Macs.

Steve Jobs has achieved many great things & for that he surely deserves considerable respect. Some may consider him to be a genius. But if he's a genius, surely, like many other so-called geniuses, it's very likely that he's a flawed one. I don't mean flawed personally; after all, how would I know without knowing him? I mean it in the sense that the direction that he appears to be taking Apple in isn't, IMO (& that of many others), necessarily the best one.

That's just an opinion. I think that those who think that SJ & Apple are beyond criticism merely confirm the excellent points you've raised in your post.

valdore
Jan 12, 2007, 06:30 PM
One could also say that Google never came up with anything truly original; they just took existing concepts and improved them, then released them under their own name.

The Scotsman
Jan 12, 2007, 06:36 PM
Look, people--

There is nothing amazingly new or innovative technology-wise in the iPhone. Everything in it has been done before, and it does not even employ some of the latest (3G) features that its competition does.

Niether did the original iPod. Grasshopper, go and learn from Thread #500. People thought that product was "crippled" by high price and no new technology ("An overpriced HDD-based mp3 player with a B&W LCD display? Who cares?").

I predict that Apple will have 20% of the entire cell phone market and 50+% of the high-end communication device within three years of its June release. That will mean 150-200 million units.

In the intervening six months before formal release, or shortly thereafter, some of the smaller issues will be attended to (like the ability to at least open and review MS files, sync'ing issues, interfacing w/iTunes Store, what have you). The rest won't matter.

Apple does not sell products, people. They sell personal productivity, great user experiences, wow and chic. This phone phone meets all of those criteria. For consumer devices like these, a streamlined and intuitive user experience is like money in the bank. The only thing innovative about the iPod is the stupid click-wheel, and yet 75% of the ENTIRE aac/mp3 player market is controlled by ONE COMPANY. The one with the click-wheel.

So it is with this product. If the final build quality of the unit proves durable, reliable, and cosmetically superior, and the unit functions as billed, it will not only make a huge forray into that giant market, but essentially create a new one.

Right now, the "smartphone" is really a piece of business equipment. Apple just invented the quintessential "consumer" version of the same product. It doesn't matter that it is expensive or lacks some high-end features. If is actually works as effortlessly and seamlessly as billed, it will become another cultural icon. Apple marketing will see to it that everyone on the planet is aware of how "cool" this device is.

I'm glad to be on record here. I hope that when this thread is reviewed three years from now, everyone is talking about the foolish naysayers of Thread #3245138 (or whatever this one is).

I agree with your predictions but I do not think it will be got with the 1st gen iPhone. iPod was not good until a range started and I think the phone will be the same.

dpaanlka
Jan 12, 2007, 06:37 PM
You all need to stop worrying about Steve Jobs rightful attitude is. Apple lost him once. Ten years later he came back. Now ten years after that, you all can't stand him? Are you kidding me? He can do whatever he wants! Worry about something more important!

And white text is not the best choice, because the background of MacRumors isn't white, it is color #FAFAFA. Get with the program people.

applemacdude
Jan 12, 2007, 06:49 PM
who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?


remind me, again, what's revolutionary about iPhone?



that they were able to put all that together and package it in a consumer friendly way

applemacdude
Jan 12, 2007, 06:56 PM
He didn't do it by himself. There was a whole company working on things. The difference is that he had a vision of what should be happening.

It took smart people in all areas to make Apple what it is today.

What about all the former Apple CEO's. They had a company behind him too, but he simply could not lead like Jobs can.

MacsAttack
Jan 12, 2007, 07:00 PM
Actually, I believe it wasn't released at MacWorld for two reasons...

1) Time. They keynote ran about 2 hours as is (already above the average). Introducing two new software suites would easily add another 45 minutes (making the event much too long).

2) The focus was clearly the iPhone, and Jobs didn't want anything to steal its glory.

It makes much more sense to introduce the iPhone at MacWorld and have a separate event for Leopard, iLife, and iWork.

MacWorld

Mac World

But we got no Macs

And both items are pitched at he US market - not the world market (need to get movie downloads onto other iTunes stores for the Apple TV to be a compelling product)

Oh - and I don't own a mobile phone and have no intention of getting one. Just a rat hole for suckers to pour money down :D

Have not watched the keynote. Not going to bother.

I'd like to see a bit more commitment from Apple (the company previously known as Apple Computers) on the computer side before I consider recomending any kind of Mac to people again.

valdore
Jan 12, 2007, 07:03 PM
Oh - and I don't own a mobile phone and have no intention of getting one. Just a rat hole for suckers to pour money down :D




I'm one of those people who has a mobile but no landline wired telephone. It's becoming more common in the US; other countries I'm not sure.

clevin
Jan 12, 2007, 07:07 PM
ok, now, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, who is lesser evil?
trust me, they are both evil, businesslike.
At least Bill have the biggest charity foundation.

SMM
Jan 12, 2007, 07:09 PM
I consider your post to spot on! I'm a Mac owner, but I must confess that I find most of my PC-owning friends to be refreshingly free of the type of smug, sycophantic, elitism some Mac people can't help but exhibit. Many PC owners I know wouldn't even recognize Steve Jobs, Steve Ballmer, etc. if they were introduced to them in the street.

Their sole concern is with having the best computer they can get for their individual needs, the software they can run, etc., not hero worship. Period. Some of them rate Macs quite highly. However, their view tends to be that, unless they're able to afford pro models, they're somewhat compelled to buy PCs because of graphical deficiencies in most consumer Macs.

Steve Jobs has achieved many great things & for that he surely deserves considerable respect. Some may consider him to be a genius. But if he's a genius, surely, like many other so-called geniuses, it's very likely that he's a flawed one. I don't mean flawed personally; after all, how would I know without knowing him? I mean it in the sense that the direction that he appears to be taking Apple in isn't, IMO (& that of many others), necessarily the best one.

That's just an opinion. I think that those who think that SJ & Apple are beyond criticism merely confirm the excellent points you've raised in your post.

Actually, I find your post to be spot off. I find your portrayal of Mac owners to be shallow, self-serving, stereotyping and weak. I did notice you used the term 'some' in an attempt to mitigate your attack.

The fact is, of the 50-100 Mac users I know, I only know one other person who reads these boards. The majority are just owner/users who love their machines. If I were to pick a group of smug zealots around here, it would be the the Apple bashers.

I expected the trolls to come flying out of the woodwork after Tuesday. You are living up to all my expectations.

SMM
Jan 12, 2007, 07:11 PM
ok, now, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, who is lesser evil?
trust me, they are both evil, businesslike.
At least Bill have the biggest charity foundation.

No, Texas is evil. These are just businessmen.

clevin
Jan 12, 2007, 07:15 PM
Actually, I find your post to be spot off. I find your portrayal of Mac owners to be shallow, self-serving, stereotyping and weak. I did notice you used the term 'some' in an attempt to mitigate your attack.

The fact is, of the 50-100 Mac users I know, I only know one other person who reads these boards. The majority are just owner/users who love their machines. If I were to pick a group of smug zealots around here, it would be the the Apple bashers.

I expected the trolls to come flying out of the woodwork after Tuesday. You are living up to all my expectations.

i believe what u said, out of 50-100 mac users, only 2~4% read here. which does mean that majority of mac users are just as normal as pc users.

but its too subjective to say zealots u saw here are apple bashers, its MR. statistically, u sure see more apple zealots here. Its just very simple fact.

No, Texas is evil. These are just businessmen.

i strongly disagree.

FrankBlack
Jan 12, 2007, 07:22 PM
While I also have some level of disappointment over the lack of any new Mac hardware, or even a progress report on 10.5, I suspect there was a reason for it. I think the reason may very well have been to emphasize Apple's move from being just a computer and iPod maker, to a maker of high-end consumer electronic products. The iPhone (assuming that they get to keep this name) is probably just the first of these products.

rt_brained
Jan 12, 2007, 07:22 PM
God, I wish this keynote was all some nightmare and in the real one Apple actually gave us something we wanted.
Strawberry-flavored puppies?

aristobrat
Jan 12, 2007, 07:24 PM
Have not watched the keynote. Not going to bother.

I'd like to see a bit more commitment from Apple (the company previously known as Apple Computers) on the computer side before I consider recomending any kind of Mac to people again.
You didn't watch the actual source of all of this information, but yet you feel that Apple might not be committed to the Mac anymore? Oye. Watch the first five minutes of it. :)

I think that those who think that SJ & Apple are beyond criticism merely confirm the excellent points you've raised in your post.
I find that most folks here are very critical of Apple and its products and don't usually hesitate to criticize where they feel appropriate. Just because not everyone participating in this thread don't agree with the OP's opinion that SJ is an arrogant SOB doesn't mean that everyone worships him either.

If all the iPhone mockups out there had missed the mark, the iPhone would be revolutionary, but there were quite a few that were based on the idea of a huge display and no keys.
I missed the markup where the full-screen video iPod was combined with the iPhone into on device.

The modest memory, for one, and for another the absence of 3G which is somewhat of a shocker - 3G has been a staple of top-of-the-line phones for years now.
Welcome to America. We're just now getting 3G (in regards to GSM networks, anyhow).


If not the business market, then who? It can't be kids, as it has no games, and allegedly no support for custom ringtones. It can't be business users, since they'll want Outlook or Lotus Notes sync, and possibly a navigator, and they'll most definitely not want to use frickin' iTunes to sync up. Which leaves, I dunno... Mac enthusiasts and 30-somethings who are hoping for 15 minutes of fame by the watercooler? He did say his goal was 10 million units.[/QUOTE]

Sesshi
Jan 12, 2007, 07:24 PM
I'm quite surprised that the fact that Jobs is a smug, egotistical sociopath is news. You have to be, to be that good.

Homy
Jan 12, 2007, 07:27 PM
he did say that Mac hardware and software will be announced in a couple of weeks time.No, not in a couple of weeks. He actually said "Over the course of the next several months we're gonna roll out some awesome stuff for the Mac".

Compile 'em all
Jan 12, 2007, 07:32 PM
If it's an iPod first then why's it got such ****** capacity?


The iPod nano is an iPod, no?

Anuba
Jan 12, 2007, 07:44 PM
Welcome to America. We're just now getting 3G (in regards to GSM networks, anyhow).

So I'm told, but A) 3G phones are backwards compatible with old GSM networks. Mine switches between 3G/regular GSM constantly when I'm at home, as I live very close to a base station but far from the nearest 3G mast. Hence they should just stick a 3G 'sleeper cell' in there for (near) future use... and B) I respect that Apple is an American company, but they peddle their stuff all across the globe. Every little itty bitty iPod has 21 languages built in. When Apple Store closes down for maintenance it happens simultaneously all across the globe, and when it pops back online again the new products are available in all countries. Never in Apple's history have I seen them do something as US-centric as this - heck, we're not getting it until 2008! Strange, pretty damn alienating, and it had better not become a habit.

takao
Jan 12, 2007, 07:45 PM
that they were able to put all that together and package it in a consumer friendly way

let's wait until it is released

personally i found the clicking around in the adress book just for dialing _not_ userfriendly

and the whole internet communicator functionality presented was what ? writing email ?

what exactly is the market for it ? the businessman ? those very likely have already laptops and sophisticated mobile phones/palms etc. and second the features are hardly aiming at them either
will they be able to use the mobile phone as a modem for their laptop ?

who else ? the person who tricks out mobile phones with all kinda gimmick programs etc ? hose rather choose phones with java etc.

i don't know i still who they plan to sell it ... sure there are mac enthusiasts (i would take it too when given as a present) but 10 million within a year without any real range of products ...


not like the apple tv thing would be any better... nice in concept but when your only way of putting content on it is downloading it for high prices on the internet then you essentially end up with a small streaming box for music + photos

or did i miss the step where you could record tv shows and put movies on it from your dvds ?

edit: that aside i'm interesting to trying it out in person... partly because i actually field tested/helped to develop/debug software for a unit,( which i hope i never see again BTW), which had a touchscreen, a built in mobile phone with GPRS (god i hated it), WLAN and camera/barcode scanner
having done this for 2 months i can feel the pains the developers went through during their 2 1/2 years at apple

Xyl
Jan 12, 2007, 07:46 PM
If not the business market, then who? It can't be kids, as it has no games, and allegedly no support for custom ringtones. It can't be business users, since they'll want Outlook or Lotus Notes sync, and possibly a navigator, and they'll most definitely not want to use frickin' iTunes to sync up. Which leaves, I dunno... Mac enthusiasts and 30-somethings who are hoping for 15 minutes of fame by the watercooler? He did say his goal was 10 million units.

Just because it was labeled as a "smart phone" it doesn't necessarily imply "business users". According to the charts given by Apple, 1 billion handsets are sold annually. I'm assuming that this 1 billion includes all phones, and not only smart phones...someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anyways, if I'm correct about this, getting 1% of the total phone market from just business users or the current smart phone market would be very difficult, and would be a very, very optimistic estimate. So one might assume that Apple is not only targeting the iPhone to current smart phone users, but to all users, INCLUDING the consumer market.

Personally, I find the iPhone to be quite appealing, and I'm not a business user (I would belong to the consumer market). And just for the record, I don't pray to Steve Jobs and I'm definitely not a "buy everything Apple" person...I own zero Apple products. Moreover, I'm not a crazed phone geek either, previous to seeing this phone, I strongly believe that paying over 100 dollars for a phone is absurd, yet I am still appealed to this 500-600 dollar phone. I'm sure there's others out there that have never spent over 100 on a phone and don't pray to Steve Jobs either, but still find this phone appealing.

jamesi
Jan 12, 2007, 07:51 PM
the iphone is definitely the coolest, best, most capabile, etc but this keynote wasnt very good i thought. i was just hoping for some sort of upgrade or new product that has been a long time coming. the iphone, while impressive, really isnt it. a fullscreen ipod i think woulda been nice, that with the iphone woulda earned this keynote a very high ranking.

i somehow feel that they dont know exactly what to do about the whole ipod iphone relationship. when i was watching the keynote on the iphone i felt as tho the cell phone feauture of the machine was second to all of the cool features like going online, applications etc. hmmm

Anuba
Jan 12, 2007, 07:52 PM
i don't know i still who they plan to sell it ... sure there are mac enthusiasts (i would take it too when given as a present) but 10 million within a year without any real range of products ...

Did he really say 10 million within a year? Surely he jests. It's not even coming out in Europe until 2008, and if he's thinking 10 million in the US alone, um... that's like 15% of Cingular's customer base.

emmawu
Jan 12, 2007, 07:57 PM
Have you forgotten that the first thing Jobs and Woz did was phone phreaking with Captain Crunch? Could this possibly be a wish fulfillment of having the coolest phone and because he is now a grown up not making prank calls to the Pope. I thought the whole talk was remeiniscent of the ultimate (legal) phone phreak. I was hoping Woz would've been on stage because you can probaly bet your bottom buck he's going to get one.

Right now it's a little too pricey for me but if there's one true thing about electonics, things always go down in price. The first Mac after all was $2,495 and it had no hard drive, just floppies. Still, tres macnifique! :cool:

Compile 'em all
Jan 12, 2007, 08:00 PM
Did he really say 10 million within a year? Surely he jests. It's not even coming out in Europe until 2008,

The iPhone will be released in Europe in Q4 2007.

Anuba
Jan 12, 2007, 08:00 PM
IMO, I think the general religion is "smug, matronizing, hollier-than-thou, etc", and it breaks down into sub-regions called Apple, Microsoft, Coke, Pepsi, etc, each with their own church. I'm not a fan of the Apple people that are like that, nor am I a fan of the Microsoft people who act that way either.

I hear ya, but... Microsoft devotees? Those exist? Statistically, if I've bumped into 100 bona fide Macdroids I should've encountered about 3200 Microsofties. The only Microsoft addict I can think of at the moment is Paul Thurrott over at SuperSite for Windows, but he always struck me as more of a, well, Paul Thurrott fan who likes to talk about Paul Thurrott and put little pictures of Paul Thurrott on his Paul Thurrott page about Windows and Paul Thurrott. Most Windows users don't seem to think about Windows at all. While this may be perceived as a lack of enthusiasm for the product, I find it quite sound. Windows is just something they use, like a sidewalk, a fork or a toilet. I like having a toilet available, really appreciate what it does for me, but it's not like I've built a shrine for it or have posters of it over my bed.

aristobrat
Jan 12, 2007, 08:01 PM
So I'm told, but A) 3G phones are backwards compatible with old GSM networks. Mine switches between 3G/regular GSM constantly when I'm at home, as I live very close to a base station but far from the nearest 3G mast. Hence they should just stick a 3G 'sleeper cell' in there for (near) future use... and B) I respect that Apple is an American company, but they peddle their stuff all across the globe. Every little itty bitty iPod has 21 languages built in. When Apple Store closes down for maintenance it happens simultaneously all across the globe, and when it pops back online again the new products are available in all countries. Never in Apple's history have I seen them do something as US-centric as this - heck, we're not getting it until 2008! Strange, pretty damn alienating, and it had better not become a habit.
Apple's iPhone launch is no different from any other phone launch -- it appears to be going world region by world region. Europeans get all of the awesome new Nokia and Sony Erricson phones months/years before the US (assuming they make it here at all), so you're wasting your breath by complaining that the iPhone is coming to the US first to this American. I didn't find it fun getting (or paying for) the latest Windows Mobile device from eBay UK or Expansys because neither of the two GSM carriers here wanted it.

Since the quad-band EDGE iPhone Apple announced Tuesday would work quite well 'as is' on your overseas GSM network, I'd imagine that the delay to 2008 would be so that they COULD put in 3G for you. Properly. Not some crazy idea about a super secret 3G chip to be enabled later. Especially since your 3G runs on entirely different frequencies than the US.


or did i miss the step where you could record tv shows and put movies on it from your dvds ?
Not to threadjack this into an Apple TV thread, but the Apple TV appears to stream/store anything that can be played from in iTunes, and there have been ways to get your own TV shows and DVDs into iTunes for awhile now.

takao
Jan 12, 2007, 08:03 PM
Did he really say 10 million within a year? Surely he jests. It's not even coming out in Europe until 2008, and if he's thinking 10 million in the US alone, um... that's like 15% of Cingular's customer base.


i thought it was 2008 but then i guess it could also be 2009 ;)

i thought it comes out later this year and 2008 in asia ?
oh well if it's 2008 in europe ... that's what ? a full spring and an autumn collection of new phones ? ( ;) )

EricNau
Jan 12, 2007, 08:07 PM
The scheduled release for Europe is the 4th quarter of 2007 (and 2008 for Asia).

takao
Jan 12, 2007, 08:08 PM
Not to threadjack this into an Apple TV thread, but the Apple TV appears to stream/store anything that can be played from in iTunes, and there have been ways to get your own TV shows and DVDs into iTunes for awhile now.

offtopic:
really ? hm anything official or are this just some nifty workarounds/patches/plugins/etc. ?

(not that i actually had the money for a apple TV or a device with a component or hdmi connector)

aristobrat
Jan 12, 2007, 08:09 PM
the iphone, while impressive, really isnt it. a fullscreen ipod i think woulda been nice, that with the iphone woulda earned this keynote a very high ranking.
So are you doubting that the next generation of iPods won't be full screen? ;)

bousozoku
Jan 12, 2007, 08:32 PM
What about all the former Apple CEO's. They had a company behind him too, but he simply could not lead like Jobs can.

Notice the Newton? That was John Sculley's idea and it was brilliant.

Had System 7 been what Copland was supposed to be, there would likely not have been any downfall but by that time, no one cared a lot. Both founders were out the door and morale was low. They were working on the Pink OS and decided to work with IBM but IBM is notorious for going nowhere with most of what they do.

Michael Spindler didn't care about the business.

It was the financial department that kept the company going despite marketing trying to squeeze $79 for each minor o.s. release.

It takes more than one person to make a company work. It's good to have someone in charge who knows and cares about what's going on but without sharp developers and accountants, companies fail all the time. Look at Sun and Palm.

gregorsamsa
Jan 12, 2007, 08:55 PM
Actually, I find your post to be spot off. I find your portrayal of Mac owners to be shallow, self-serving, stereotyping and weak. I did notice you used the term 'some' in an attempt to mitigate your attack.

The fact is, of the 50-100 Mac users I know, I only know one other person who reads these boards. The majority are just owner/users who love their machines. If I were to pick a group of smug zealots around here, it would be the the Apple bashers.

I expected the trolls to come flying out of the woodwork after Tuesday. You are living up to all my expectations.

The "some" in my post wasn't meant to mitigate anything. I meant every word I said in exactly the way I said it. That you then choose to attach your own paranoid interpretation to it is entirely down to you.

There's actually no Apple bashing in my post whatsoever but, as is all too typical with a few people, feathers are all too easily ruffled & then we get the tired, old accusations of trollism coming out. That you should talk about "living up to all my expectations" is kind of rich in the circumstances.

tlux
Jan 12, 2007, 09:55 PM
i dont think he was arrogant. I think he was genuinely excited about this product, not because it earns the company (and ultimately himself) money, but because it is such a big leap in technology.

And at the start of the keynote, he did say that Mac hardware and software will be announced in a couple of weeks time. Just wait a little while, and i'm sure you'll hear people complaining that the new C2Q MPs dont have their name engraved on the side of the machines:p

I agree I don't think he was arrogant. But at the begining of the keynote he said Mac hardware and software would be announced in a couple of "months" not weeks.

Music_Producer
Jan 12, 2007, 09:57 PM
I think we should just close this thread. Eventually, everyone who wants to buy an iPhone for what it offers, will go ahead and buy one.. while the others will go ahead with their usual jealous whining :p :D

Lancetx
Jan 12, 2007, 11:38 PM
There's an old saying that goes...it ain't bragging (or arrogant either for that matter) if you can do it. Well, Steve Jobs and Apple have proven time and time again that they can definitely do it.

SkyBell
Jan 13, 2007, 03:44 AM
And white text is not the best choice, because the background of MacRumors isn't white, it is color #FAFAFA. Get with the program people.

I beg to differ.:)

illegalprelude
Jan 13, 2007, 04:02 AM
I cant believe this is a topic that is being discussed. Who cares. If you like the products, sweet, if not, oh well. But to say he is arrogant? isnt that arrogence itself? (sp lol)

R.R.Mac
Jan 13, 2007, 05:12 AM
i am going to get an iphone and i think Jobs has done a great job of apple. I believe that the iPhone is going to be a great hit and as someone said will once again steal some (or most) of the market for phones. Apple have used their brains once more and will be a success. All they need to do now is get some game designers and design a PSP like game machine. IF apple can make this game machine and make the computers sync and stuff like that apple will have it in the bag!

aLoC
Jan 13, 2007, 05:27 AM
He didn't come across as too arrogant to me, if anything he was too humble. I am referring to the way he said Apple was very "fortunate" to have had breakthough products over the years. As if it was luck and not hard work. When people work hard and succeed they should take credit, not put it down to luck.

VanMac
Jan 13, 2007, 08:33 AM
Havent read all the threads, but just thought I would chime in.

Best darn keynote ever....Ricky Bobby

bming1
Jan 13, 2007, 09:36 AM
I can name one big thing - visual voicemail. I think this is an amazing feature. Instead of waiting for the voicemail system to respond to your button inputs to skip messages so you can finally get to the one you want, you just touch the screen once. Please show me another cell phone that can do this.

As someone else has already pointed out, there are over 200 patents in the phone. While I'm certain that many are related to human factors elements and software, it's likely that there are some hardware patents involved. Only an Apple hardware engineer who was intimately involved in the design of the iPhone would be able to help you out here.

who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?


remind me, again, what's revolutionary about iPhone?

devman
Jan 13, 2007, 10:01 AM
Wow, I just watched the keynote and my god this guy is hard to stand. I've watched previous keynotes and he never seemed this bad. The charisma he's displayed in the past has been replaced with smugness. He acted like the iPhone was the second coming of christ and we were so lucky that he existed to bring it upon us.

well when you can match what he has achieved in his career, you can be more humble about it. deal?

When really, this is probably the single worst keynote for Mac users that he has ever given.


A vibrant and growing Apple Inc. is good for Mac and its users...

iShak
Jan 13, 2007, 11:39 AM
jobs was being over the top cuz he knew he was taking a risk ..

he has a hit product in his hands, the iPod, he knows it will sell ..
and now he has a new product .. possibly risky and you never know how it will sell .. so what do you do? bundle it with the hit product and force it upon the customers ..

so now if i need the widescreen ipod, but dont like the phone .. i dont have the choice .. either stand outside apple outlet and drool all day or go in and pay extra for the phone that comes with the ipod that i want.


i dont want to pay extra for the phone cuz i dont want it but would have bought the ipod .. apple loses a customer

StuPidQPid
Jan 13, 2007, 01:34 PM
I beg to differ.:)

Actually he's right! I just tilt my PowerBook screen and can read the white on color #FAFAFA with no problem :-)

SkyBell
Jan 13, 2007, 02:01 PM
Actually he's right! I just tilt my PowerBook screen and can read the white on color #FAFAFA with no problem :-)

I have CRT, so HA! Besides, all you havr to do is highlight it anyway.

mojohanna
Jan 13, 2007, 05:03 PM
So I'm told, but A) 3G phones are backwards compatible with old GSM networks. Mine switches between 3G/regular GSM constantly when I'm at home, as I live very close to a base station but far from the nearest 3G mast. Hence they should just stick a 3G 'sleeper cell' in there for (near) future use... and B) I respect that Apple is an American company, but they peddle their stuff all across the globe. Every little itty bitty iPod has 21 languages built in. When Apple Store closes down for maintenance it happens simultaneously all across the globe, and when it pops back online again the new products are available in all countries. Never in Apple's history have I seen them do something as US-centric as this - heck, we're not getting it until 2008! Strange, pretty damn alienating, and it had better not become a habit.
PART of the delay in the release of the phone in the US market is due to FCC (federal commumcations commission) registration and regulations. I would imagine that there are similar agencies in other countries that have oversight on new devices that utilizes this type of communication. In the case of the iPhone, Apple may not have cleared all of the regulatory red tape in other countries to launch simultaneously. On top of that there are carrier negotiations. Do the carriers have the technolgy to support the features of the phone? Do they have the support capability that apple is looking for in terms of customer service etc. If you have a problem with a cell phone that you have under contract with Cingular, who are you going to call first, Cingular or Moto?

This is a whole different ballgame when it comes to the regulatory front. That is my guess as to why there will be delays.

And for all of you who are outside of the US there is a silver lining to this for you. By the time you do get the phone, it will most likely be second gen and will most likely be touting the most popular features for your region of the world (a la 3G type stuff)

Scarlet Fever
Jan 13, 2007, 05:12 PM
so now if i need the widescreen ipod, but dont like the phone .. i dont have the choice .. either stand outside apple outlet and drool all day or go in and pay extra for the phone that comes with the ipod that i want.

but the point is that Apple's lineup isn't going to stay the way it is forever. Within a couple of weeks or months, Apple will announce the widescreen iPod. Now that they have shown what you can do with a touchscreen, I reckon we should expect OS X and a dully-touchable display on the iPod.

Just wait a little while; the 6th Gen iPod will be released :)

bousozoku
Jan 13, 2007, 05:28 PM
but the point is that Apple's lineup isn't going to stay the way it is forever. Within a couple of weeks or months, Apple will announce the widescreen iPod. Now that they have shown what you can do with a touchscreen, I reckon we should expect OS X and a dully-touchable display on the iPod.

Just wait a little while; the 6th Gen iPod will be released :)

The possibilities seem endless. Maybe, they could do a smart remote control. I've seen those priced at more than $1000 on the high end.

StuPidQPid
Jan 13, 2007, 07:45 PM
I have CRT, so HA! Besides, all you havr to do is highlight it anyway.

Oh that's a good trick! Thanks! - Of course you can also click the quote button

Mac Dummy
Jan 13, 2007, 09:15 PM
That guy was an orphan who made himself into a billionaire with no help from anyone. Until you can do the same he has every reason to be smug.

Even Bill Gates, for what it is worth, grew up in a nice sheltered family with rich parents.

Bill Gates was also a programmer at Apple, when Steve and company visited Xerox Parc and learned about the windows GUI concept. Bill took that concept when he left Apple and started Microsoft, then teamed up with IBM that was looking for a new OS to use with their PC's. Which they would later sell to corporate America, the government, and the military. Also with IBM clones, Windows PC's would become affordable for the average person needing a computer. Hence the reason there are more PC users than Mac users, but that is starting to change as Windows becomes less secure and more bloated.

DMann
Jan 14, 2007, 01:45 AM
ha, that was pretty good. and true really...

they didn't release iwork and ilife probably b/c of Amazon putting it up on their website early

and now poor ol' Amazon has egg on its face:o

DMann
Jan 14, 2007, 01:52 AM
Bill Gates was also a programmer at Apple, when Steve and company visited Xerox Parc and learned about the windows GUI concept. Bill took that concept when he left Apple and started Microsoft, then teamed up with IBM that was looking for a new OS to use with their PC's. Which they would later sell to corporate America, the government, and the military. Also with IBM clones, Windows PC's would become affordable for the average person needing a computer. Hence the reason there are more PC users than Mac users, but that is starting to change as Windows becomes less secure and more bloated.

Bill Gates was never an Apple employee. He had already swindled IBM by selling them an OS which he didn't yet even have,
put together his hacked QDOS, (literally, Quick and Dirty Operating System) and submitted that with redundant licensing and royalty
agreements to IBM, well before agreeing to design MS Word for Mac. He borrowed the Mac computer, swiped code off of it, and hence
designed (hacked) Windows 1.0 -- As far as working for Apple, one might say he was merely working against Apple.