PDA

View Full Version : Cingular Ties, Several More iPhone Models? And More Details...




MacRumors
Jan 12, 2007, 01:42 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

PCMag (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2082059,00.asp), MobileBurn (http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=3036&source=MOSTREAD), and TelephonyOnline (http://telephonyonline.com/wireless/marketing/iphone_apple_cingular_011006/) reported on comments on the Apple iPhone from Glenn Lurie, Cingular's president of national distribution. Cingular, of course, is the exclusive provider for the Apple iPhone in the U.S. and this deal has been said to last (http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/09/technology/apple_jobs/index.htm?postversion=2007010917) until 2009. As part of the branding, the "Cingular" word will appear on the iPhone screen, but will not appear on the body of the phone itself.

Of particular interest, Cingular's exclusivity contract "covers 'all models' of the iPhone, including several other devices in the works that may be 'coming out very quickly'". Unfortunately, the exact details surrounding the quote were unavailable, but appear to be related to the possibility of future 3G implementation on the iPhone -- a feature which Steve Jobs stated during the keynote was on the roadmap for future models.

Other details include:

- 2 year contract required, applies for existing customers as well
- Apple is taking additional efforts to prevent the unlocking of the phones
- Apple and Cingular will share tech support responsibilities
- Cingular hinted at possible iPhone specific data plans
- Likely a 1 year warranty

Meanwhile, there's a battle (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13129-2541353,00.html) for the rights to Apple's phone in the UK. The contenders include O2, Vodafone, Orange and T-Mobile.

MacWelt.de published (http://www.macwelt.de/news/messen/342764/index.html) answers to questions (translation (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3238293#post3238293)) from Apple Germany about the iPhone. And,iLounge was able to have some hands on time (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ipod/review/apple-iphone-hands-on/) with the iPhone. Some things revealed in these reports:

- iTunes songs can not be set as ringtones
- As reported, battery is not user replaceable
- Gestures / Scrolling interface has brief learning curve
- Screen appears resistant to smudges
- No Voice over IP support
- No wireless iTunes downloads/purchases



runplaysleeprun
Jan 12, 2007, 01:49 AM
Bummer about apple making it hard to unlock. a lot of crushed dreams around here i'm sure.

noservice2001
Jan 12, 2007, 01:53 AM
sweet

solowCX
Jan 12, 2007, 01:53 AM
I really hope that after Apple gets some leverage in this industry that they do away with the locking of phones. They really do need Cingular to help distribute this phone for them initially, but once more people see the iPhone in action and learn they can buy them from Apple stores I bet Apple will change this ideas.

I have a suspicion that Cingular was the one who required such things as iTunes songs not being able to be set as ringtones. That is so backwards I never understood by cell phone manufacturers did this. Being free of a specific carrier will be good for everyone, but Apple needs the publicity first.

twoodcc
Jan 12, 2007, 01:55 AM
sweet

yeah, sounds pretty good to me. hope these things start shipping......the sooner the better....

ogun7
Jan 12, 2007, 01:55 AM
A lot of this is no surprise. The iPod is a closed system and in order to get the huge amount of leverage over Cingular that they did, Apple had to give up some concessions. That's why we have hackers...

Poff
Jan 12, 2007, 01:57 AM
Yeah! I Knew It! Here Come's The Candybar!! :d

Loge
Jan 12, 2007, 01:58 AM
Do they mean songs purchased from iTunes store cannot be used as ring tones, or anything you might have in your iTunes library?

In any event restrictions like that are just mean spirited, and show up what is wrong with the cell phone industry.

123
Jan 12, 2007, 01:58 AM
>>- Screen appears resistant to smudges

BS, you can even see them in the Keynote stream.

mymacluvsme
Jan 12, 2007, 01:58 AM
I just read on MDN that

"AT&T Inc. will rebrand its Cingular Wireless service with the AT&T name starting Monday, a move aimed at bringing together the company's newly acquired entities and services under a single moniker," Dionne Searcey reports for The Wall Street Journal."

So will the iPhone still be branded Cingular?

Poff
Jan 12, 2007, 01:59 AM
I really hope that after Apple gets some leverage in this industry that they do away with the locking of phones. They really do need Cingular to help distribute this phone for them initially, but once more people see the iPhone in action and learn they can buy them from Apple stores I bet Apple will change this ideas.

I have a suspicion that Cingular was the one who required such things as iTunes songs not being able to be set as ringtones. That is so backwards I never understood by cell phone manufacturers did this. Being free of a specific carrier will be good for everyone, but Apple needs the publicity first.

On any standard Nokia supporting mp3 or aac, you can use your mp3's as ringtones. If reality is different in the US then, yup, it's the carriers demands.

Metatron
Jan 12, 2007, 02:00 AM
Under no conditions will I resign my contract. I will pay full retail, or wait for a smarter man than me to unlock it. Apple has some serious flaws with this overly closed system. Great product, classic steve BS.

DMann
Jan 12, 2007, 02:05 AM
I really hope that after Apple gets some leverage in this industry that they do away with the locking of phones. They really do need Cingular to help distribute this phone for them initially, but once more people see the iPhone in action and learn they can buy them from Apple stores I bet Apple will change this ideas.

I have a suspicion that Cingular was the one who required such things as iTunes songs not being able to be set as ringtones. That is so backwards I never understood by cell phone manufacturers did this. Being free of a specific carrier will be good for everyone, but Apple needs the publicity first.

Unlocking these phones will be easier than unlocking a RAZR.
No need to worry;)

DMann
Jan 12, 2007, 02:06 AM
Under no conditions will I resign my contract. I will pay full retail, or wait for a smarter man than me to unlock it. Apple has some serious flaws with this overly closed system. Great product, classic steve BS.

Steve is just giving a impression to Cingular so that they will trust him.
He knows they'll be unlocked as soon as they're released.

DMann
Jan 12, 2007, 02:08 AM
On any standard Nokia supporting mp3 or aac, you can use your mp3's as ringtones. If reality is different in the US then, yup, it's the carriers demands.

Another promise to keep the recording industry from
flipping out. It will be quite EASY to use an mp3 or
portion for a ring tone.

DMann
Jan 12, 2007, 02:09 AM
>>- Screen appears resistant to smudges

BS, you can even see them in the Keynote stream.

'Resistant' is not to be construed as smudge 'proof.'

DMann
Jan 12, 2007, 02:10 AM
Do they mean songs purchased from iTunes store cannot be used as ring tones, or anything you might have in your iTunes library?

In any event restrictions like that are just mean spirited, and show up what is wrong with the cell phone industry.

Edit, format, and use any sound as ring-tone

jaredtorres
Jan 12, 2007, 02:11 AM
The price of the phone wont be less with a contract, correct?

DMann
Jan 12, 2007, 02:11 AM
A lot of this is no surprise. The iPod is a closed system and in order to get the huge amount of leverage over Cingular that they did, Apple had to give up some concessions. That's why we have hackers...

iPod is closed, and still quite easy to hack.
OS X and/or variant will be that much
easier to modify:p

maveness
Jan 12, 2007, 02:14 AM
No VoIP. BUMMER. :(

weg
Jan 12, 2007, 02:16 AM
- As reported, battery is not user replaceable


No way I'm buying that, no matter how nice the other features are..

EricNau
Jan 12, 2007, 02:16 AM
The price of the phone wont be less with a contract, correct?
Correct. The price WITH contract is $499/$599.

MacFly123
Jan 12, 2007, 02:19 AM
With talk of these new iPhone models and also Leopard, iLife 07, iWork 07, new Cinema Displays, etc. what other conferences or opportunities for announcements are coming up and when? I've been a HUGE Apple fan for a couple years now, but I'm still not familiar with all the events. If anybody can tell me so I now when to be excited for new things I would appreciate it :)

Thanks

Steve1496
Jan 12, 2007, 02:19 AM
I plan on purchasing the phone, but the ring tone/iTunes song issue is worrying. On a phone such as the iPhone, this should be a no-brainer feature!

tvguru
Jan 12, 2007, 02:25 AM
As nice as it is, I think I'm still going to get a Blackberry on a 2 year contract and wait for Rev 2 or 3. Need more space if I'm going to be using the device the way they showed in the keynote.

MacNut
Jan 12, 2007, 02:27 AM
I just read on MDN that

"AT&T Inc. will rebrand its Cingular Wireless service with the AT&T name starting Monday, a move aimed at bringing together the company's newly acquired entities and services under a single moniker," Dionne Searcey reports for The Wall Street Journal."

So will the iPhone still be branded Cingular?No, it will be AT&T

ts1973
Jan 12, 2007, 02:49 AM
Now I really wonder if this phone will ever reach Belgium : locked phones are forbidden here, as are contracted phones (you must have the freedom here to choose your own divider).

Imho the iPhone business sounds more and more like serious BS, I hope Apple will realise this in time so all this niceness doesn't go the newton way...

123
Jan 12, 2007, 03:00 AM
I hope Apple will realise this in time so all this niceness doesn't go the newton way...

Consumers are so stupid these days that it will likely succeed anyway. It might even be a smart move to completely lock the phone from a business perspective. Apple will sell additionall widget, games etc. Also they will get royalties from every third party app they allow to run on this thing. All of this of course marketed as superb user experience.

bigjohn
Jan 12, 2007, 03:15 AM
the more i read about it, the less i want it...

the more it seems like it should be $399 because it's an 8GB flash ipod that happens to have phone capabilities.

said it before, i'll say it again. i have a phone, i have an ipod. i have a macbook pro. what can this offer me that those other three are lacking?

After G
Jan 12, 2007, 03:17 AM
the more i read about it, the less i want it...

the more it seems like it should be $399 because it's an 8GB flash ipod that happens to have phone capabilities.

said it before, i'll say it again. i have a phone, i have an ipod. i have a macbook pro. what can this offer me that those other three are lacking?Portable Internet access without Wi-Fi.

c-Row
Jan 12, 2007, 03:52 AM
MacWorld UK now says that, according to Apple, VoIP has been left out due to the upcoming legal fuzz with Cisco, since their patent includes the VoIP-enabled devices they introduced last month. Guess that won't rule out the technical possibility of using the iPhone as a VoIP phone.

So many rumours... :p

Consumers are so stupid these days that it will likely succeed anyway. It might even be a smart move to completely lock the phone from a business perspective. Apple will sell additionall widget, games etc. Also they will get royalties from every third party app they allow to run on this thing. All of this of course marketed as superb user experience.

I will rather chose which apps get installed and pay for each single one, than having to buy all of them without needing most of them anyway but getting charged for the complete package.

imacdaddy
Jan 12, 2007, 03:53 AM
MacWorld UK now says that, according to Apple, VoIP has been left out due to the upcoming legal fuzz with Cisco, since their patent includes the VoIP-enabled devices they introduced last month. Guess that won't rule out the technical possibility of using the iPhone as a VoIP phone.

So many rumours... :p

Hrmm...I guess Cisco is going to sue Nokia because my E61 does VoIP.

Rumors, rumors, rumors. I love macrumors.

cal6n
Jan 12, 2007, 04:06 AM
Hrmm...I guess Cisco is going to sue Nokia because my E61 does VoIP.


Er, no.

Not unless Nokia renames it as "iPhone" and it has VoIP enabled.

210
Jan 12, 2007, 04:12 AM
Does that mean that in the US you won't be able to get the iPhone on any other network until 2009? If so, will they do the same in the UK? I am dreading this because Orange are useless in getting new 'phones in so they won't be the first here, I'm pretty sure. Wasn't the Motorola ROKR an exclusive to O2 when it was released?

blurtigo
Jan 12, 2007, 04:15 AM
The 'no iTunes songs as ringtones' things sounds either like a record company contract thing (they make a lot of their money licensing stupid 30 second clips to ringtones companies), or it's because Cingular want to sell you their stupid 30 second ringtones instead. Networks like Vodafone in the UK open cripple the ringtone capabilities of a phone so they can make money through ringtones.

Whichever it is, I hope you get round it. The more I'm finding out about the iPhone though, the less I want it.

Limiting 3rd party development on it is blatantly down to Cingular not wanting a Skype app appearing on it as well.

britishempire
Jan 12, 2007, 04:20 AM
I'm not going to buy an iPhone if I am forced to enter a pay monthly contract to use it.

I don't use my phone enough to justify a £20+ monthly fee.

Imo, Apple will be shooting themselves in the foot if they force people to buy iPhones locked to a single network and don't offer pay as you go service plans because there are thousands of potential buyers out there like me who would snap the iPhone up if it was a one off payment with pay as you go service thereafter but are unwilling to enter a contract deal.

thejadedmonkey
Jan 12, 2007, 04:48 AM
Unlocking these phones will be easier than unlocking a RAZR.
No need to worry;)

DMann, is everything you're saying fact or just your own speculation?

britishempire
Jan 12, 2007, 04:50 AM
I hope it's true that they'll be easy to unlock.

matticus008
Jan 12, 2007, 04:56 AM
I really hope that after Apple gets some leverage in this industry that they do away with the locking of phones.
I think that's just Cingular BSing the media. There is absolutely no point in locking the phones since it's perfectly legal to unlock them by any means, even in the US. Maybe Cingular insisted that Apple include some sort of "lock" but it's the least of any potential worries, and I would reserve judgment until Apple itself says one way or the other.

dAlen
Jan 12, 2007, 04:57 AM
god save my soul...never thought I would see the demise of apple as a innovative company.

cool gui interface, but wait!

- no 3rd party apps (you dont need them, because we said so!)
- no ringtones from music from itunes (so Cingular can make more by charging for lower quality ringtones? whats up?)
- now in Europe some company called O2 wants to be exlusive.
(Im in Hungary and have heard of Vodaphone and T-Mobile...whoe the ***is O2. Knowing my luck, O2 will win, and I wont have to worry about the iphone.) :D
- no purchasing music from the iphone from itunes, etc. etc.

Steve what is up with you?
Time for me to start my own company I see. At least make a product like I would want. (kind of like the dude from oakley who is making his own video camera cause he got tired of what the industry giants offered...and it blows them away. check out red.com for the new 4k camera, higher than High definition my friends.)

Peace

dAlen

EagerDragon
Jan 12, 2007, 05:11 AM
Can I use it as a modem so I can use the data plan from my laptop?

dllavaneras
Jan 12, 2007, 05:47 AM
So no songs as ringtones? :mad: I expected the ability to assign a different ringtone to every person in my contacts! What's the use of 8Gb of music then? Isn't it all about integration?

dernhelm
Jan 12, 2007, 05:52 AM
So no songs as ringtones? :mad: I expected the ability to assign a different ringtone to every person in my contacts! What's the use of 8Gb of music then? Isn't it all about integration?

But then Cingular can't make more money selling you ringtones for your phone. Which is an inexplicable multi-million dollar industry.

StealthRider
Jan 12, 2007, 05:55 AM
After a recent DMCA update, I believe, carriers now have to make it possible to unlock their phones. Would this apply in this situation?

BoyBach
Jan 12, 2007, 06:15 AM
Also, in case you missed it, Apple has posted (iTunes) the Macworld San Francisco 2007 keynote in video podcast format on the iTunes Store.


Fantastic! No more dodgy live video streams for me. :)

DaveTheGrey
Jan 12, 2007, 06:21 AM
I think that this phone is so expensive to produce, that steve had to sign such contracts.
cingular, google, yahoo, no ringtones and so on. The price is freedom. :(
It's too early for that kind of technologie and truely 5 years ahead of everything else.
An unlocked version that can do all you want would perhaps cost 1000$ and who would buy this? nobody.

But I'm looking forward to my 100gig multitouch true video iPod. :D

Dave

MacVault
Jan 12, 2007, 06:29 AM
MacWorld UK now says that, according to Apple, VoIP has been left out due to the upcoming legal fuzz with Cisco, since their patent includes the VoIP-enabled devices they introduced last month. Guess that won't rule out the technical possibility of using the iPhone as a VoIP phone.

So many rumours... :p

It is sooo sad that Apple would sacrifice VOIP cabaility just to call it iPhone. It's a beautiful piece of tech, but way too much BS. What is Steve Jobs thinking?

retroneo
Jan 12, 2007, 06:31 AM
As nice as it is, I think I'm still going to get a Blackberry on a 2 year contract and wait for Rev 2 or 3.

I'm gonna get the Nokia N95.

It's built-in GPS, navigation for 100 countries, 5 megapixel camera with autofocus and DVD-quality video recording are more appealing. It still has a Safari-based browser and with HSDPA at 3.6 Mbit, it's connected features work at a usable speed!

dAlen
Jan 12, 2007, 06:31 AM
So no songs as ringtones? :mad: I expected the ability to assign a different ringtone to every person in my contacts! What's the use of 8Gb of music then? Isn't it all about integration?

now that is innovative...never thought about it. (but I dont own a phone or cell...well I use skype-in/out)

love the idea of having tones per person...you can recognize who is calling you, and have a silent one for those not on your contact...(i.e. ignore.) :D

Peace

dAlen

kansast
Jan 12, 2007, 06:39 AM
It was asked once before already, and I'll ask it again. "No iTunes songs as ringtones" does this mean mp3s in general, or JUST songs purchased from iTunes ??

Last time I had a Cingular phone, I was easily able to select mp3s as a ringtone ????

blurtigo
Jan 12, 2007, 06:45 AM
It was asked once before already, and I'll ask it again. "No iTunes songs as ringtones" does this mean mp3s in general, or JUST songs purchased from iTunes ??

Last time I had a Cingular phone, I was easily able to select mp3s as a ringtone ????

No one knows until it's clarified.

Depends if it's the RIAA's restriction (most likely), in which case you'd still be able to use mp3's without DRM, or if it's Cingular getting greedy because of the potential sales of this thing and wanting a slice of the ringtone action.

babyj
Jan 12, 2007, 06:51 AM
- now in Europe some company called O2 wants to be exlusive.
(Im in Hungary and have heard of Vodaphone and T-Mobile...whoe the ***is O2. Knowing my luck, O2 will win, and I wont have to worry about the iphone.) :D

Peace

dAlen

O2 is owned by Telefonica.

The suggestion is that the European exclusive will go to one company for all countries. I guess that if they don't have a presence in a certain country then they'll either arrange one or license it out to someone else.

This could actually work well for everyone in Europe, if we end up with a European wide tariff. I'm with Orange, they have a big network in France but if I use my phone there I get charged standard international rates. There is absolutely no reason at all for them to do this, except it makes them a lot of money.

Sabenth
Jan 12, 2007, 06:51 AM
god save my soul...never thought I would see the demise of apple as a innovative company.

cool gui interface, but wait!

- no 3rd party apps (you dont need them, because we said so!)
- no ringtones from music from itunes (so Cingular can make more by charging for lower quality ringtones? whats up?)
- now in Europe some company called O2 wants to be exlusive.
(Im in Hungary and have heard of Vodaphone and T-Mobile...whoe the ***is O2. Knowing my luck, O2 will win, and I wont have to worry about the iphone.) :D

dAlen

O2 Is what used to be British telecom cellnet ... I would have thought that vodaphone or tmobile would get it not o2. mind u there rates are better than vodaphone for me...

ts1973
Jan 12, 2007, 07:03 AM
O2 is owned by Telefonica.

The suggestion is that the European exclusive will go to one company for all countries. I guess that if they don't have a presence in a certain country then they'll either arrange one or license it out to someone else.

This could actually work well for everyone in Europe, if we end up with a European wide tariff. I'm with Orange, they have a big network in France but if I use my phone there I get charged standard international rates. There is absolutely no reason at all for them to do this, except it makes them a lot of money.


Unless SJ can change country laws, this won't happen. There are several countries in which coupling/locking of phones with one provider is forbidden. One of them is my own country.

MacPhreak
Jan 12, 2007, 07:09 AM
I never thought I'd say this about an Apple product, but the iPhone is DOA as far as i'm concerned. It would be very nice to have a device that is everything as Lord Steve is promoting the iPhone, but in its current state, the iPhone ain't it. If I can't add my own applications, and truely make the computer/phone/iPod mine, then it isn't worth it to me. I'd be better off with a Nano and a Blackberry or Treo. The two year lock-in to Cingular I may be able to tolerate, but the inability to do VoIP, SSH, etc., really ruins it for me. I'll be keeping my on-its-last-legs PoS Axim for a while longer, I guess. At least it runs Skype.

I was an AT&T Wireless customer, and put up with Cingular for a couple of years after the buyout. But I couldn't take it anymore, and bailed, and am now using a Net10 Prepay phone, just waiting for a decent phone & plan. Right now, for the amount that I use a phone, that's Nextel or T-Mobile. But I've been screwed by T-Mobile in the past, so I'm hesistant to sign back up.

So it was with baited breath that I read the announcement of the iPhone. I'm finally close to finishing my second graduate degree, and have a well-paying job lined up, so I am planning to splash out on a nice phone, rather than the bottom-of-the-barrel Moto I have with Net10. Too bad it's not going to be an Apple phone...

randygentry
Jan 12, 2007, 07:21 AM
"'all models' of the iPhone, including several other devices in the works"
I'll take a more simple, smaller, less expensive model. Thanks.

yg17
Jan 12, 2007, 07:45 AM
I hope they go with T-Mobile in the UK or other countries....because from what I've heard on HowardForums.com, phones locked to T-Mo in Europe will still work with T-Mo SIM cards in the US. And since I have T-Mo, if I could ever get my hands on an iPhone locked to European T-Mo, then I could probably use it...

Trekkie
Jan 12, 2007, 07:48 AM
They could have put the final nail in the zune coffin if they allowed you to buy iTunes music over the wireless connection and use your own music for ringtones. I hope the 'no ringtone' applies to iTunes purchased music only maybe.

It's stupid, but I'm sure Cingular and the RIAA wanted a piece of the pie too.

peharri
Jan 12, 2007, 07:52 AM
Unlocking these phones will be easier than unlocking a RAZR.
No need to worry;)

Your faith is touching, but factory unlocked RAZRs are easy to buy, whereas factory unlocked iPhones will almost certainly be unavailable, at least until (unless?) Apple sells them in markets that require unlocked phones be available.

peharri
Jan 12, 2007, 07:56 AM
After a recent DMCA update, I believe, carriers now have to make it possible to unlock their phones. Would this apply in this situation?

Nope, the importance of the decision by the copyright office has been overstated.

Carriers and manufacturers (and everyone else) can no longer sue you if you make a modification to a phone you've bought to allow it to be used with a different carrier. Previously, certain types of modification (based around reflashing the firmware) could be seen as violations of copyright.

This is a long way from saying carriers can't lock their phones, or have to help you unlock them. While some countries have laws requiring the unlocking of phones (either by default, or upon request), the US isn't one of them, and that's unlikely to change any time soon.

jesteraver
Jan 12, 2007, 08:01 AM
I'm gonna get the Nokia N95.

It's built-in GPS, navigation for 100 countries, 5 megapixel camera with autofocus and DVD-quality video recording are more appealing. It still has a Safari-based browser and with HSDPA at 3.6 Mbit, it's connected features work at a usable speed!

I might do the same until, iPhone comes to Canada. One thing thats nice the N95 does VoIP over WiFi.

Plus the iPhone will change over the years anyways. Too bad the first one supposably wont let you use tunes for ringtones and what not. Also over the years the iPhone will change with the market hopefully. Seeing by 2012, which is around the corner almost WiMax and other stuff should be all being used around the global market.

djscouserboy
Jan 12, 2007, 08:18 AM
I hope they go with T-Mobile in the UK or other countries....because from what I've heard on HowardForums.com, phones locked to T-Mo in Europe will still work with T-Mo SIM cards in the US. And since I have T-Mo, if I could ever get my hands on an iPhone locked to European T-Mo, then I could probably use it...

Not so in the UK in December ... a T-Mobile (UK) RAZR did not play with my T-Mobile (US) SIM. It may be a phone specific thing but it doesn't give me any hope on the iPhone front.

mac-er
Jan 12, 2007, 08:44 AM
I just read on MDN that

"AT&T Inc. will rebrand its Cingular Wireless service with the AT&T name starting Monday, a move aimed at bringing together the company's newly acquired entities and services under a single moniker," Dionne Searcey reports for The Wall Street Journal."

So will the iPhone still be branded Cingular?

I doubt it. The Cingular name will be gone and a distant memory by June.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/12/news/companies/bc.att.cingular.reut/index.htm?postversion=2007011209

Mac Pro 5GB
Jan 12, 2007, 08:45 AM
I now doubt if the phone will say Cingular on it on the screen. I heard this morning AT&T is going to do away with the Cingular branding.

Cybergypsy
Jan 12, 2007, 09:02 AM
I think I will wait on this I love small phones... willl stick with what i have for now...http://farm1.static.flickr.com/95/280193364_b5a3c9ecc5_m.jpg

Trekkie
Jan 12, 2007, 09:11 AM
Your faith is touching, but factory unlocked RAZRs are easy to buy, whereas factory unlocked iPhones will almost certainly be unavailable, at least until (unless?) Apple sells them in markets that require unlocked phones be available.

Not to mention you'll have TWO vendors working against you unlocking it if the press reports are true. It appears both Apple and Cingular will be working on locking it.

For all we know the firmware itself will check for a cingular SIM and if it's not there, buh bye.

Trekkie
Jan 12, 2007, 09:13 AM
I now doubt if the phone will say Cingular on it on the screen. I heard this morning AT&T is going to do away with the Cingular branding.

Can't find the link right this second but either CNN or one of the big news sites like Pogue or something have reported the only place it'll say Cingular is on the LCD when it's connected to that network. So when they change it back to AT&T it'll probably change back but there will be no cingular branding silk screened/painted/whatever on the phone itself.

mac-er
Jan 12, 2007, 09:18 AM
Can't find the link right this second but either CNN or one of the big news sites like Pogue or something have reported the only place it'll say Cingular is on the LCD when it's connected to that network. So when they change it back to AT&T it'll probably change back but there will be no cingular branding silk screened/painted/whatever on the phone itself.

How about looking and reading one post above the one you quoted?

aristobrat
Jan 12, 2007, 09:20 AM
Apple will sell additionall widget, games etc. Also they will get royalties from every third party app they allow to run on this thing. All of this of course marketed as superb user experience.
At work I have people bringing me their fubared BlackBerrys and Windows Mobile phones all freaking day long where some 3rd party application they've installed is causing chaos. If Apple can guarantee that anything a user can add to their iPhone has been checked to not cause issues, I'd say that's a huge improvement towards a "superb user experience".

I don't use my phone enough to justify a £20+ monthly fee.
I don't think the iPhone's market is "people who really don't use their phone a lot". :confused:

- no purchasing music from the iphone from itunes, etc. etc.
It is sooo sad that Apple would sacrifice VOIP cabaility just to call it iPhone.
Both of those activities are likely to shorten the battery life significantly (based on my experience with other smartphones). What's the point of downloading 2 songs from iTunes to your iPhone or having a 30-minute VOIP call if you only have 45 minutes of battery left on your phone when you're done?

Trekkie
Jan 12, 2007, 09:22 AM
How about looking and reading one post above the one you quoted?

I did, and that talked about Cingular re-branding to AT&T. It didn't talk about how most mobile phone vendors put their stickers and logos all over the phone pysically too. That's what I was talking about, not that they're rebranding.

Rodimus Prime
Jan 12, 2007, 09:22 AM
I think the lake of iTunes stuff being set as a ring tone is an apple limitation not a Cingular or at least the pressure on apple to do that is not coming from Cingular because most Cingular phones that are apple to function as a mp3 player do not have that limitation on it at all. Hell any of Cingular phones that you can transfer files on by Bluetooth of a USB connector does not have that limitation put on it.
I have a Sony Ericsson z252a and I have never paid for a ring tone on it. I just put them all on there by blue tooth from my Macbook. I use iTunes to convert the song to the 22 sec clip I want, put it on my phone and set it to ring tone. No real hoops to jump though, no tricks. Base on that and many other Cingular phones Cingular just does not care. I know my brother Samsung phone is the same way. Just move the file on there by blue tooth and set as the ring tone. Other Cingular phones that my friends have that work.
An LG phone and you can use the expand storage card to load even move on. All the Motorola phones with blue tooth. Noki phones. the only limitation really is as long as it has blue tooth or a USB connection to the computer you are good to go. It really seems like Cingular does not care about that.

Now I can see the record companies caring and putting that pressure on apple. But I do not see Cingular doing it because other wise at least some of there other phones would be limited by that.

blufire
Jan 12, 2007, 09:54 AM
I love that they put the keynote up as a podcast. This is awesome.. much better than the stuttering high-demand streams (IMO)

ncbill
Jan 12, 2007, 10:00 AM
On the EDGE network?

You do realize EDGE speeds in practice are barely better than dial-up?

I bet they went with EDGE to keep down the monthly fee.

True broadband access over cellular would probably double the monthly fee ($60/month w/ a voice plan for Verizon EVDO).

Not to mention there is currently much less GSM than CDMA broadband coverage (EVDO is available here in a city <150,000 population)

>Portable Internet access without Wi-Fi

lmalave
Jan 12, 2007, 10:05 AM
I'm excited to hear that other models will be coming fairly rapidly. I think a smaller form factor with simplified functionality makes sense. I'd settle for a phone that just had the basic phone functionality along with the new touch-screen music player interface, visual voice mail, threaded SMS, etc. I mean, the web browsing looked cool, but I can live without it. I'd settle for having Opera mini on it (if they open up the phone to Java). And in terms of text input for emails or SMS - I can live without the onscreen qwerty keyboard. Maybe for the iPhone nano they just have a regular on-screen numeric keypad with predictive text input - I'd be happy with that.

uNext
Jan 12, 2007, 10:17 AM
Apple is taking additional efforts to prevent the unlocking of the phones

This is apple giving the "i dont care about the world" finger to its loyal fans.

This phone is so crippled i can name 4-5 phones that are really worth 499-599

I will pass as more information gets leaked that steve did not disclose during his 2hr presenation this is coming out to be more more less attractive.

aristobrat
Jan 12, 2007, 10:33 AM
You do realize EDGE speeds in practice are barely better than dial-up?

I bet they went with EDGE to keep down the monthly fee.

True broadband access over cellular would probably double the monthly fee ($60/month w/ a voice plan for Verizon EVDO).
My guess is they went with EDGE because nobody's made a small-enough 3G chipset that gets decent battery life for them to use. From what I've read, the only slim 3G smartphone out now (the BlackJack) has bad enough battery life that it ships with two batteries.

On Verizon, if you have a smartphone like the iPhone, unlimited EVDO should only be $40/month (unless you're using it as a modem). :confused:

Diatribe
Jan 12, 2007, 10:37 AM
WTF is this all about? I understand the Cingular contract but an actual locked phone?
What happens if I move to another country, I can't use my phone anymore?
This better not be true for Europe for example, where people move from country to country quite often. :mad:

ART5000
Jan 12, 2007, 10:38 AM
APPLE IS TAKING MEASURES TO AVOID THE UNLOCKING OF THE PHONE.
********

BY LAW CELL COMPANIES MUST UNLOCK THE PHONES WITHIN A PERIOD OF TIME, 30days.:mad:

Le Big Mac
Jan 12, 2007, 10:42 AM
I will pay full retail, or wait for a smarter man than me to unlock it.

The unlocking part is terrible. If I have to commit to a two-year contract, I understand. But the contract is for cingular/att to recover the subsidy. That's fine. But why also lock me into your system beyond that, or if I want to go overseas? Is it for true exclusivity? How many people are going to buy the phone from cingular, and then pay the ETF right away so they can use it on t-mobile (whose network probably doesn't support a lot of featues)? If I go overseas, though, I want to be able to pop in a SIM, even if I sacrifice features.

ART5000
Jan 12, 2007, 10:43 AM
you must know this

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/293875_unlock28.html


it is not illegal ANYMORE to unlock your mobile independently.

benpatient
Jan 12, 2007, 10:45 AM
wow. this sounds mucho crappy.

2 year contract for a phone that has a 1 year limited warranty? add 5 bucks a month to the price cause you now need insurance to justify the 500-600 dollars!

no using itunes songs for ring tones? Can you even sync up to a computer and get a ring tone mp3 that you made from your computer's itunes library? If not, that's like...a step backwards from the previous itunes phones (I have a SLVR).

no replacement battery?

and what the heck does "Gestures has a brief learning curve" mean? I thought it was "intuitive"?

bah.

where's my OS X.5?

Buschmaster
Jan 12, 2007, 10:47 AM
More models? Perhaps a cheaper model with no camera?

They could call it the Buschmaster version. ;)

I can't switch until December this year, so hopefully I can either get this particular phone cheaper or I can get a similar version cheaper.

orb
Jan 12, 2007, 10:50 AM
cingular exclusive - Not a problem. Cingular was the company willing to open up and make the changes needed to support the iPhone, and I've got no problem at all becoming a customer to get those features.

locked - As per previous, not a huge issue. If that's the price we have to pay for the added functionality, so be it. We might prefer it to be otherwise, but if the alternative is an unlocked phone without things like visual voicemail, I'll pass.

ringtones - Please, for the love of Apple, set your phones to vibrate people. I hope apple disables all ringtones. Grrr!!!!!

ART5000
Jan 12, 2007, 10:51 AM
iphone is starting to be NOT COOL

if the battery F- ups then just send it in like an ipod. What? a cell is not an ipod, it's a crucial way of communicating when you're out and about. I could do without an ipod for some time but NOT my cell.

Sedulous
Jan 12, 2007, 10:56 AM
The more detail I hear about the iPhone, the less I am convinced it is something that I want. It seems like any sensible level of flexibility that you might want has been locked out. At that price point, the iPhone should at least be capable of some of the things others have pointed out in these forums.

rtdunham
Jan 12, 2007, 11:08 AM
sweet

i thought this was an interesting remark, from a poster on david pogue's blogscape re: the iPhone:

"Maybe the better question with regard to Cingular is: Do I have to use any carrier at all? The way I see it, even without a mobile carrier, this is a cool video iPod with WiFi internet capabilities. I’ll pay $600 for that."

jkdsteve
Jan 12, 2007, 11:23 AM
iphone is starting to be NOT COOL

if the battery F- ups then just send it in like an ipod. What? a cell is not an ipod, it's a crucial way of communicating when you're out and about. I could do without an ipod for some time but NOT my cell.

A cellphone without an easily user-replaceable battery sucks but I'm going to assume you'll be able to walk into a Cingular/AT&T store and get it replaced/approved service type thing.....still sucks but as I'd have to go to the store to buy a battery, might as well have someone fit it whilst there.

So far, both the iPhone and the iTV are looking to be far to restrictive for me :(

jkdsteve
Jan 12, 2007, 11:24 AM
i thought this was an interesting remark, from a poster on david pogue's blogscape re: the iPhone:

"Maybe the better question with regard to Cingular is: Do I have to use any carrier at all? The way I see it, even without a mobile carrier, this is a cool video iPod with WiFi internet capabilities. I’ll pay $600 for that."

Pretty smart comment..

I'll take one without the phone but with an 80GB HDD please....8GB is practically useless in iPod/Video terms :D

calculus
Jan 12, 2007, 11:25 AM
i thought this was an interesting remark, from a poster on david pogue's blogscape re: the iPhone:

"Maybe the better question with regard to Cingular is: Do I have to use any carrier at all? The way I see it, even without a mobile carrier, this is a cool video iPod with WiFi internet capabilities. I’ll pay $600 for that."

I guess that the $600 is subsidised by the network so there's no chance...

willybNL
Jan 12, 2007, 11:42 AM
- Apple is taking additional efforts to prevent the unlocking of the phones


Can't wait till it is in Europe... Here, it's illigal to have simlock for longer than 1 year.

brightlights
Jan 12, 2007, 11:49 AM
Really hope that O2/Telefonica get the EU rights to this.

In the UK it should be more heavily subsidised as well (as all phones are at the moment).

oneof52
Jan 12, 2007, 12:05 PM
Under no conditions will I resign my contract. I will pay full retail, or wait for a smarter man than me to unlock it. Apple has some serious flaws with this overly closed system. Great product, classic steve BS.

We don't have Cingular in our area, so I'm hoping for some solution.

awhitaker
Jan 12, 2007, 12:17 PM
"'all models' of the iPhone, including several other devices in the works"
I'll take a more simple, smaller, less expensive model. Thanks.

That's what I was hoping for. A $200 Nano that is also a phone. I don't surf the internet on my phone much and if I did, I would have to pay an extra $40 a month for the media package on Cingular. If they reduced that monthly service price then maybe I would consider it. But that's a lot of money to surf the internet. I'll do it at home on my laptop or at work. If I did get the iphone, I would probably only surf the internet using the wifi to save money. The only place I couldn't use it would be on the road, which kind of sucks. I just want an ipod and a phone in one package so I can stop carrying two pieces of equipment in my pocket. $600 for the phone and $40 a month for internet access is way too much for what I use a cell phone for.

carlgo
Jan 12, 2007, 12:45 PM
The more detail I hear about the iPhone, the less I am convinced it is something that I want. It seems like any sensible level of flexibility that you might want has been locked out. At that price point, the iPhone should at least be capable of some of the things others have pointed out in these forums.

These forums are tech orientated, of course, but don't disregard the political factor.

The following is not to creat a political arguement, but there is political precedent that I think applies.

Republicans have been supportive of the way the wireless providers have done business for years, but this is likely to change as the Dems have taken over Congress and probably will take the White House in a couple of years. Even if the GOP makes a sudden come-back, it will likely be less conservative.

In the future, I think, those providers will be forced to be more consumer-friendly and open up our phone options.

The providers may fight every regulation down to the the last GOP deregulator, or they may try to gain favor and head off the inevitable by playing more nice pre-emptively. This would speed up changes.

That, combined with the usual model proliferation from Apple Inc will result in changes to the iPhone that are hard to predict, but are likely to result in more features to please more people.

atlendor
Jan 12, 2007, 01:25 PM
There's one thing that bugs me here: A 1 year warranty and a 2 year contract??? Perhaps Apple needs to up this to 2 years.

Rodimus Prime
Jan 12, 2007, 01:59 PM
the 1 year warranty is general the industry standard even with a 2 year contract. Something I recommend to any one who owns a cell phone is always get insurance on it. It a life saver for when you need it and it worth the 3-5 bucks a month you pays for it.

AndyR
Jan 12, 2007, 02:07 PM
Can't set iTunes songs as ring tones :confused: Come on Apple thats stupid, I've been doing that with MP3's exported from iTunes for yonks now. If were limited to thats crappy bing bong style ringtones you won't be getting my money. :mad:

killr_b
Jan 12, 2007, 02:12 PM
…snip…

Other details include:

- 2 year contract required, applies for existing customers as well
- Apple is taking additional efforts to prevent the unlocking of the phones
- Apple and Cingular will share tech support responsibilities
- Cingular hinted at possible iPhone specific data plans
- Likely a 1 year warranty

Deal Breaker. Period. One year warranty on a two year agreement.

…snip…

- iTunes songs can not be set as ringtones
- As reported, battery is not user replaceable
- Gestures / Scrolling interface has brief learning curve
- Screen appears resistant to smudges
- No Voice over IP support
- No wireless iTunes downloads/purchases

Also a deal breaker. Why download songs or even put them on the thing?

Taking additional measures to prevent phone unlocking? Sounds like it's time for my stock to be set free.

210
Jan 12, 2007, 02:14 PM
There might be different models? In that case, would there be a possibility that in the UK 02, say, would have exclusive rights over this present model, but other carriers (Orange, Vodafone, T-Mobile, etc.) can have the other models? I really hope so, otherwise I'm screwed.

killr_b
Jan 12, 2007, 02:22 PM
I think that this phone is so expensive to produce, that steve had to sign such contracts.
cingular, google, yahoo, no ringtones and so on. The price is freedom. :(
It's too early for that kind of technologie and truely 5 years ahead of everything else.
An unlocked version that can do all you want would perhaps cost 1000$ and who would buy this? nobody.

But I'm looking forward to my 100gig multitouch true video iPod. :D

Dave

I would buy it RIGHT NOW if it was unlocked and $2000.
I don't like notebooks. I think they are worthless next to my MacPro and have always preferred to spend double on a desktop than to have two half powered computers. If I could edit MS Word files on it, it would be perfect. $2000. No questions.

Fukui
Jan 12, 2007, 02:26 PM
I would buy it RIGHT NOW if it was unlocked and $2000.
I don't like notebooks. I think they are worthless next to my MacPro and have always preferred to spend double on a desktop than to have two half powered computers. If I could edit MS Word files on it, it would be perfect. $2000. No questions.
Well, I've heard in Korea people pay upwards of 1000 dollars (US equiv.) for cell phones, so I don't see a 1000 dollar unlocked phone to be much of a problem... at least maybe there... in the U.S, its a different dynamic....

What I'm guessing is that people will be so apathetic to being locked into Cingular it will give apple the 'excuse' to either go MVNO or with a lot of different carriers and unlocked.... we'll see....

The only sucky thing is "iTunes songs can not be set as ringtones."
Un-Fckuing-Believable is all I have to say to that. Totally retarded.

Rocketman
Jan 12, 2007, 02:50 PM
The Cingular CEO scooped the market by announcing the name change to AT&T again. I used to have AT&T cell service before it was bought by Cingular. It was the most widespread coverage in the country when traveling. Then the switch from analog to digital service actually declined coverage.

Now that the cellular industry is "mature", that is to say, cell tower locations are very nearly omni-present, the industry is positined to simply update the towers to 4/5G and wimax.

In the mean time the corporate machinations with Bellsouth/AT&T and now AT&T/Cingular, means that entire business block will now be called AT&T again and Cingular will be "debranded".

AT&T is the owner/operator of the "nuclear and information deterrant" and the follow-on to DARPA's original military internet. All those antenna farms you see on tops of mountains with microwave repeaters are AT&T stuff.

If sh** ever hit the fan in the USA you would thank god for AT&T.

Rocketman

Grakkle
Jan 12, 2007, 03:00 PM
As far as I'm concerned music phones from SonyEricsson or Nokia are pretty much as good or better than the iPhone. Sure, the iPhone is pretty, but not being able to buy an unlocked phone is a huge mistake on Apple's part. Also, if it's true that iTunes songs can't be set as ringtones, the only option for a unique tone is to buy it as a separate tone, from Cingular. That's totally unacceptable. Even with the other music phones on the market you can set your own songs as ringtones.

I was considering buying the iPhone, but I definitely won't be now. Anyway, since I can't buy an unlocked phone and Cingular doesn't operate in Canada, I couldn't use it on the local Rogers GSM network.

Huge disappointment. I wouldn't even consider the iPhone till I can buy an unlocked model - or can figure out how to unlock it. Of course, unlocking it would only work if I was willing to commit to the Cingular contract, too.

ksz
Jan 12, 2007, 03:28 PM
According to engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/12/verizon-increases-sms-rates-customers-now-free-of-their-contr/):

It looks like Verizon Wireless is following in Sprint's SMS footsteps, announcing a planned hike in text messaging rates for those not currently subscribed to a messaging package. The hike, which will take effect March 1st, will bump the cost of sending a text message to the U.S., Puerto Rico, Canada and Mexico from $0.10 to $0.15 per message, with the price for international text messages remaining at $0.25 per message. The cost of receiving a message from customers of foreign wireless carriers, however, will increase to $0.15 whether you subscribe to a messaging package or not. If this all sounds a little familiar, it's because when Sprint did the same thing late last year, it didn't take long for people to figure out that the rate hikes amounted to a so-called "material change" to their contracts, meaning they could bail on it without paying an Early Termination Fee (EFT). So if you've been sticking to Verizon but secretly fancying another carrier, this looks like it may be your only chance to take the plunge without also taking a hit.

ncbill
Jan 12, 2007, 03:58 PM
Those AT&T hardened microwave sites were sold as surplus long ago:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/11/230203

You're lucky nowadays if cell towers have a generator.

Even landlines rely heavily on the power company.

AT&T is the owner/operator of the "nuclear and information deterrant" and the follow-on to DARPA's original military internet. All those antenna farms you see on tops of mountains with microwave repeaters are AT&T stuff.

If sh** ever hit the fan in the USA you would thank god for AT&T.

Rocketman

kbonnel
Jan 12, 2007, 04:34 PM
Love the phone, hate that it will be locked. I have no problem paying 1k for a phone I realllllly want, but I won't "lease" a phone since I can't use it with other providers. Heck, paying $600 for a phone that turns into a paper weight if I don't want to stay with cingular/at&t doesn't make financial sense. (i guess paying 1k for a phone doesn't make sense either, but I would at least get to use it somewhere else.)

Kimo

stompy
Jan 12, 2007, 04:56 PM
I plan on purchasing the phone, but the ring tone/iTunes song issue is worrying. On a phone such as the iPhone, this should be a no-brainer feature!

Carriers are ecstatic about their ring-tone revenue stream and will fight tooth and nail to keep that stream viable. Steve's iPhone demo showed us how "Apple can be Apple;" lack of iTunes ringtones demonstrates how "Cingular can be Cingular."

Pay attention to Paul Leakas in this interview

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/default.cdnx/id/16053642/displaymode/1157

Arn's comments later in the same "On the Money" piece nail it.

ts1973
Jan 12, 2007, 05:04 PM
Carriers are ecstatic about their ring-tone revenue stream and will fight tooth and nail to keep that stream viable. Steve's iPhone demo showed us how "Apple can be Apple;" lack of iTunes ringtones demonstrates how "Cincular can be Cingular."

Pay attention to Paul Leakas in this interview

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/default.cdnx/id/16053642/displaymode/1157

Arn's comments later in the same "On the Money" piece nail it.

Nice find. Seems like Arn was quite visionary here lol.

Rodimus Prime
Jan 12, 2007, 05:13 PM
Carriers are ecstatic about their ring-tone revenue stream and will fight tooth and nail to keep that stream viable. Steve's iPhone demo showed us how "Apple can be Apple;" lack of iTunes ringtones demonstrates how "Cingular can be Cingular."

Pay attention to Paul Leakas in this interview

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/default.cdnx/id/16053642/displaymode/1157

Arn's comments later in the same "On the Money" piece nail it.


As others pointed out I think the lack of iTunes ring tones is something apple doing and not Cingular doing. Either from pressure from music industry (who make a killing off of rings tones as well) or are doing it because in the future they want to go to other carriers and those would like it more if it would not do it.

To back this all of Cingular phones that have blue tooth or a USB connection for the computer that I know of do not have that limitation. I can load up any mp3 file I want and set it as my ring tone. Why Cingular would be demanding it on the iPhone if they do not require LG, Samsung, Sony, Nokia, or even Motorola to it on there phones. To add even more too back that even the phones that have memory expansions can do it and you can load the info on the memory card and then use it on your phone. Based on that I think it is Apple doing and not because of pressure from Cingular.

As hard as it is to accepted I think the locking out of iTunes music as ring tones is apple doing completely. The locking help locking it to Cingular only is Cingular doing and have Cingular being the only one who sells it is Cingular doing. But the iTunes muse not being able to be used as ring tones is apple doing.

stompy
Jan 12, 2007, 05:21 PM
Nice find. Seems like Arn was quite visionary here lol.

Can't remember for sure, but I believe the link was originally posted on "Arn's first interview" thread. Arn has gotten more polished each with each appearance.

Konradx
Jan 12, 2007, 05:32 PM
Dont know if this has been asked but who is picking this up in Canada?

bilbo--baggins
Jan 12, 2007, 05:46 PM
As far as I'm concerned music phones from SonyEricsson or Nokia are pretty much as good or better than the iPhone.

I've owned various Sony Ericsson phones (T68i, K700i, P910, M600i) and while they've been ok, they're really pieces of junk compared to what I've seen of the iPhone demo. My M600i will be going as soon as I can get my hands on an iPhone.

As far as networks are concerned, I get a bargain price with Vodafone in the UK so they could stop me moving networks. On the other hand, Orange is the only UK network with EDGE, so that would seem the logical network for Apple to go with. Shame their customer service has gone from bad to worse.

lamadude
Jan 12, 2007, 06:16 PM
Does this mean that the Iphone won't be available in Belgium? Since they are required to be unlocked. That would suck! Or maybe there is a way to lock them at all Belgian providers? Don't know if that's technically possible. Im thinking they are just plainly not going to sell the Iphone in Belgium.

stompy
Jan 12, 2007, 06:18 PM
As others pointed out I think the lack of iTunes ring tones is something apple doing and not Cingular doing.

Why Cingular would be demanding it on the iPhone if they do not require LG, Samsung, Sony, Nokia, or even Motorola to it on there phones. ...



The manufacturers you list are not in the music download business (Sony sometimes thinks it is). Cingular has a music download service that will compete directly with the iPhone's music download service, iTunes. In other words, Cingular is going to make zero off music downloads on the iPhone. As Apple is cooperating with a direct competitor, ringtones may be Apple's concession to Cingular.

I'd say the speculation has to start with "follow the money."

iLounge quotes Apple saying that ringtones are limited becuase of “rights issues." See

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ipod/review/apple-iphone-hands-on/

Apple could quite easily allow only iTMS DRM'd songs to be used as ringtones. Apple gets their cut, music industry gets their cut, rights issue solved. So why can't you do it? Apple is working with both the music industry and Cingular on iTMS and the iPhone. RIAA / Cingular definately prefer to sell $2.50 ringtones than $.99 "use it how it want" songs.

If Apple begins selling ringtones for a premium on iTMS, I'll wonder more about their role.

dr427
Jan 12, 2007, 06:42 PM
I just hope the Data Package monthly fee is closer to around $20-$30, but I am sure it will be the $40/$45 the Blackjack and Blackberry carries.

$100 a month for a phone with an internet package is still tough for me to digest since the phone will have wi-fi.

That is the only thing stopping me right now. I was disappointed a little by the larger than expected form factor, but the functionality has me excited.

paja
Jan 12, 2007, 06:49 PM
I was totally blown away by the iPhone and would have laid out $600 that day to have it. But the glow has been worn down by these dark clouds....

- No removable battery
- No iTunes downloading (this alone would have killed the Zune off)
- No 3rd party software (and it's a smartphone?)
- No 3G (the web will be so sloooowwww)
- No wifi transfer (I have to dock the phone?)
- No feedom of choice regarding a providor
there are probably a few more no's I've forgotten....

so no, I won't be buying the iPhone, not this one anyway.

God I am so happy it wasn't shipping that day. It saved me $600. Sorry Apple you lost me on this one. Have you lost you're frigging minds at Apple? This phone is DOA....it's a looser!

Hunabku
Jan 12, 2007, 07:08 PM
OK - i confess i've read entirely too much press and disscusions about this phone. I think many of us are lured in by the coolness and possibilities and since we are already "hooked" we are upset that the functionality of the phone is intentionally handicapped.

All this complaining for more functionality needs to translate into market opportunities for apple/cingular. Right now us power users represent too small of a market impetus. But over time i'm certain that new opportunities will evolve and this phone will realize it's true potential - but dang it why we have to wait - me want it now! waaa :mad: :mad: :( :(

SiliconAddict
Jan 12, 2007, 07:45 PM
Must....resist.....urge...to...further...bash...iPhone....must *smashes fingers in car door* Ahhhh

ART5000
Jan 12, 2007, 08:00 PM
Apple is taking additional efforts to prevent the unlocking of the phones

This is apple giving the "i dont care about the world" finger to its loyal fans.

This phone is so crippled i can name 4-5 phones that are really worth 499-599

I will pass as more information gets leaked that steve did not disclose during his 2hr presenation this is coming out to be more more less attractive.

I just called cingular-- been with them for a while - they state that they could unlock any phone including the iphone.:cool:

SeaFox
Jan 12, 2007, 08:29 PM
- No removable battery
- No iTunes downloading (this alone would have killed the Zune off)
Apple doesn't need to do anything to help "kill off" the Zune. The product is going down the toilet very nicely on its own.

- No 3rd party software (and it's a smartphone?)
That could change anytime.

- No 3G (the web will be so sloooowwww)
No 3G - yet. The European version will probably have it, which means it would have to be added to the U.S. version to keep sales from going to importers.

- No wifi transfer (I have to dock the phone?)
You have to charge it at some point anyway. :rolleyes:

- No feedom of choice regarding a providor
Yeah, I don't get that one either. But in two years you will.

You could think of it this way, with AT&T buying up all their competitors and the FTC not giving a damn, soon we may ALL be on Cingular anyway. :D

SeaFox
Jan 12, 2007, 08:31 PM
How do you get the keynote Podcast? The "subscribe" button is grayed out in the iTunes store.

matticus008
Jan 12, 2007, 08:42 PM
I was totally blown away by the iPhone and would have laid out $600 that day to have it. But the glow has been worn down by these dark clouds....
Allow me to swing the pendulum back the other way a little, then.

- No iTunes downloading (this alone would have killed the Zune off)
This is not particularly surprising. The iTunes application is far too massive for the space constraints of the iPhone. There's no effective way of making iTunes purchases with the executable size required of embedded devices. It's a bit disappointing, I agree, but you can still purchase on your computer and transfer it over. If you hear a song you like while away from home, make a note of it on the iPhone. (An iTunes shopping list might make it into the phone before long).

- No 3rd party software (and it's a smartphone?)
Patently untrue. It will not be an open platform. Everything else is pundit and journalist hyperbole. 3rd party software will be available, but will have to be installed through the sync engine (just like other smartphones). Availability of titles is unknown. We don't know who will have access to the SDK or what the procedure for getting apps approved is yet. I imagine Apple doesn't know either, which is why they're not providing details.

- No 3G (the web will be so sloooowwww)
It's a Cingular phone. Cingular has no 3G network worth using. When 3G actually exists in the US, then this might be something to complain about. Having 3G capability wouldn't speed up Internet access one iota.

- No wifi transfer (I have to dock the phone?)
What do you want to transfer wirelessly? Trust me, you don't want to transfer hundreds of megabytes over a smartphone's wireless stack. It will clog and fail. It's a simple limit of throughput.

- No feedom of choice regarding a providor
There is no practical way that the iPhone could have been introduced without a pairing from someone. For one, there's the cost. Beyond that, there is a need for Apple to provide end-to-end service--everything from Apple works right out of the box, and not providing that would have resulted in the same level of criticism. The use of Cingular as the provider simply reflects the largest GSM operator in their launch market.

MacSamurai
Jan 12, 2007, 09:00 PM
Allow me to swing the pendulum back the other way a little, then.

- No iTunes downloading (this alone would have killed the Zune off)
This is not particularly surprising. The iTunes application is far too massive for the space constraints of the iPhone. There's no effective way of making iTunes purchases with the executable size required of embedded devices. It's a bit disappointing, I agree, but you can still purchase on your computer and transfer it over. If you hear a song you like while away from home, make a note of it on the iPhone. (An iTunes shopping list might make it into the phone before long).

- No 3rd party software (and it's a smartphone?)
Patently untrue. It will not be an open platform. Everything else is pundit and journalist hyperbole. 3rd party software will be available, but will have to be installed through the sync engine (just like other smartphones). Availability of titles is unknown. We don't know who will have access to the SDK or what the procedure for getting apps approved is yet. I imagine Apple doesn't know either, which is why they're not providing details.

- No 3G (the web will be so sloooowwww)
It's a Cingular phone. Cingular has no 3G network worth using. When 3G actually exists in the US, then this might be something to complain about. Having 3G capability wouldn't speed up Internet access one iota.

- No wifi transfer (I have to dock the phone?)
What do you want to transfer wirelessly? Trust me, you don't want to transfer hundreds of megabytes over a smartphone's wireless stack. It will clog and fail. It's a simple limit of throughput.

- No feedom of choice regarding a providor
There is no practical way that the iPhone could have been introduced without a pairing from someone. For one, there's the cost. Beyond that, there is a need for Apple to provide end-to-end service--everything from Apple works right out of the box, and not providing that would have resulted in the same level of criticism. The use of Cingular as the provider simply reflects the largest GSM operator in their launch market.

hmmm ok maybe on the itunes downloading...and maybe even on the 3rd party apps which im sure will come,but come on, this phone is turning out to be more of a fashion accesory than a smart phone.No 3G?why couldnt they put it in there? I mean if the euro one will probably have it that means the first phone will be obsolete way before that rediculous contract ends.Uh and the wifi transfer...thats like saying why have bluetooth...loads of people use bluetooth to transfer all sorts of things,wifi is just the upgrade.And now the itunes songs not being useable for ringtones,although a small thing,is just really stupid.There are so many things wrong with this phone that makes the price of the phone just laughable, and lets not forget that price is with a contract...like i said before,a fashion accesory:why would i choose this phone over any equally potent or even stronger phone that costs way less?Tell me.Im sure itll come down to looks

c2edgerton
Jan 12, 2007, 09:14 PM
I just have one comment....I'm gonna shell out $500 for an iPhone and get "stuck" with Cingular...that sucks....out where I live there is a reason that it is the "network with the least dropped calls" it is because it is because you can't get any calls to connect....

I would be willing to pay the premium for the iPhone if I could choose my own provider...


2009? That's a long time....we'll have iPods inbetted in our arms by then....

SiliconAddict
Jan 12, 2007, 09:15 PM
I just called cingular-- been with them for a while - they state that they could unlock any phone including the iphone.:cool:

If you sign up for another 2 years or join them for 2 years. Either way lube up.

kbonnel
Jan 12, 2007, 09:40 PM
I just called cingular-- been with them for a while - they state that they could unlock any phone including the iphone.:cool:

Sure, they "could" unlock any phone, but they don't. I have heard that they will unlock some of the Treo phones, after you have had it for the contract length I think.

I hope that soon after the iPhone is released, somebody figures out how to unlock it for good.

Kimo

jwdsail
Jan 13, 2007, 12:54 AM
Wow, the more I read, the less I want this...

I'm Apple's target customer for the iPhone... I have 2 iPods, a crackberry, and 3 Macs... A smart phone that could bring my podcasts, addressbook, and email together with the phone would be an automatic buy for me...

If it weren't tied to Cingular... Their customer service makes Dell look downright decent! Perhaps that may change w/ the merger and name change... but I'm not going to hold my breath... This partnership looks like a bad marriage .. you know when you see 2 people that just really aren't a good fit, and you want to speak up and stop it when they say, Speak now or forever hold you... The Cingular CEO is literally the anti-Jobs...

Now we can't use our own music as ringtones? (rolls eyes) Complete lock-out of 3rd party apps? I guess that rules out using Salling Clicker...

The non-replaceable battery, meh, I've replaced "non-replacable" batteries in iPods, so I don't see what the hell people are getting their shorts in a bunch over this one..

But Cingular... LOCKED to Cingular... sigh...


The excuse I've heard is that Cingular had to do something special to make the voice mail work... Meh.. Why not have the iPhone programed to see what network it's on, know what commands are needed to retrieve/record the voicemails, and cache them to its memory? Wouldn't that be the more elegant, more Apple like solution?

sigh..


Very disappointed..


jwd

markie
Jan 13, 2007, 02:54 AM
Please let T-Mobile get the UK rights, then us T-Mobilers can bring them over here (generally, locked T-Mobile phones allow any T-Mobile SIM to be used regardless of country it's from, so a T-Mobile US SIM could be used)

Seasought
Jan 13, 2007, 03:49 AM
Apple is taking additional efforts to prevent the unlocking of the phones.

:mad:

matticus008
Jan 13, 2007, 05:26 AM
No 3G?why couldnt they put it in there? I mean if the euro one will probably have it that means the first phone will be obsolete way before that rediculous contract ends.
There is no 3G market in the US for GSM operators. It simply does not matter in this country. In other markets where it's significant, it will certainly be available for their iPhone, and when someone in the US builds a 3G or 4G network, then it will matter. Until then, it's better to focus on the things that actually matter. Why add 3G if no one can use it and if there aren't any concrete plans for people to be able to use it in the future?

Uh and the wifi transfer...thats like saying why have bluetooth...loads of people use bluetooth to transfer all sorts of things,wifi is just the upgrade.
It's not the same at all. It HAS Bluetooth and supports what appears to be a full profile set, which includes syncing of contact and calendar data, as well as OBEX push for the occasional group of files. If you're syncing any more than that, you really need to plug the device in. Devices in this class don't have the kind of cache or system throughput to handle continuous data coming in over the wireless subsystems. They're not meant to be used to download hundreds of megabytes, either from the Internet or a LAN.

The wired connections are the only ones customarily capable of that sort of data, nevermind the very real potential for a data interruption in the wifi, causing you to have to restart 10 minutes of wireless file copying. It's a good idea in theory, but it just doesn't work in practice. Despite the marketing, these kinds of devices are NOT as powerful as a computer--even though they've got more RAM and faster processors than the computers we used to own, they're not designed the same way.

And now the itunes songs not being useable for ringtones,although a small thing,is just really stupid.There are so many things wrong with this phone that makes the price of the phone just laughable
There's nothing wrong with this phone--it doesn't even really exist yet. It's as simple as that. In six months, if they've still not addressed some of the obvious weaknesses, then maybe you'll have a point.
why would i choose this phone over any equally potent or even stronger phone that costs way less?Tell me.Im sure itll come down to looks
Well there's the rub. An equally potent phone that costs less consists of two subjective claims. What 'equally potent' means for you will depend on what you do with it. 'Costs less' will also depend on your point of reference, and the dollar value you place on UI, aesthetics, size, and the small touches that no other device has (sensors, superior music interface, a full-featured browser, multitouch, etc.). Each person has to do the math. If it isn't what you want, don't buy the damn thing, but don't try to imply that everyone else is stupid for choosing it over the competition.

Anonymous Freak
Jan 13, 2007, 05:45 AM
Bull-puckey.

If they are going to force me to stay with the same cell company for 2 years upon purchase of a phone, I should get a 2-year warranty on that phone. What happens if, 18 months in, my phone dies due to manufacturing defect (aka, something that would be covered under a warranty,) and I choose not to purchase a replacement at my own cost? Cingular charges me an early termination fee.

That's bull crap.

I'm sorry, but this initial iPhone just has too many things wrong with it. No 3G, when there are plenty of others (including on Cingular,) that offer it. No VOIP, again, when others provide it. (Most egregious is the lack of interoperability with iChat clients!) And no Flash (some would say it's not a loss, but my Wii can view GooTube,) in the web browser.

Sorry, Apple, that's four strikes already. Not to mention the Cingular lock-in (I prefer T-Mobile's data pricing structure. $30 to add unlimited data to any phone, AND you get to use it 'tethered' to your computer with that. With Cingular, that will cost about $70 EXTRA beyond your voice plan.)

And the long-desired 'true video' iPod only has 8 GB of storage, tops? And you're pricing it $200 more than what is, by your own admission, the phones you're targeting? I already own a nano, I don't need to pay $200 for another nano, even if it *CAN* play movies and such.

Yes, the interface is incredible. But it doesn't overcome the SEVERE deficiencies that are present. And most of them appear to be 'business choices', not actual technical decisions!

Once these issues are fixed, I will most certainly buy one. I will happily give up my Nokia Symbian phone. But not for the first gen iPhone. It just has too many compromises.

dextertangocci
Jan 13, 2007, 08:36 AM
Portable Internet access without Wi-Fi.

And if you have a 3G/HSDPA USB modem, connected to a MB/MBP/PB/iBook?

BTW, can the iPhone be used to connect your mac to the internet?

Cloudgazer
Jan 13, 2007, 08:59 AM
The US cellphone market completly freaks me out.

I can't imagine networks blocking features, or phones that are network specific.

In SA all phones are available across all networks, no blocked features, no exclusivity.

davey-nb
Jan 13, 2007, 10:30 AM
I just hope the Data Package monthly fee is closer to around $20-$30, but I am sure it will be the $40/$45 the Blackjack and Blackberry carries.

$100 a month for a phone with an internet package is still tough for me to digest since the phone will have wi-fi.

That is the only thing stopping me right now. I was disappointed a little by the larger than expected form factor, but the functionality has me excited.

Hey there, just a minute
Take a look at the actual specs:

2.4" wide x 4.5" high
now take a ruler and draw that out on your hand.
The Apple pictures make it look bigger than it actually is.
This thing is "small as *****™"

dr427
Jan 13, 2007, 10:56 AM
Hey there, just a minute
Take a look at the actual specs:

2.4" wide x 4.5" high
now take a ruler and draw that out on your hand.
The Apple pictures make it look bigger than it actually is.
This thing is "small as *****™"

For what it does you are very right, and for viewing videos you wouldn't want smaller, but I guess for a phone I would like smaller.

I did actually do what you suggested and make a drawing then overlaid my razr on top of it. Not bad, but I am used to dropping my phone in my pocket and this would clearly need a holster. Just the price to pay I guess.

The size isn't holding me back now, just the data package announcement price.

DakotaGuy
Jan 13, 2007, 01:50 PM
Why does everyone including Apple still call it Cingular when it is officially becomes "Wireless by AT&T" on January 15th? They should have just announced the whole thing using that name since it is changing to AT&T in a few days anyhow. Seems like their would be less confusion to the average consumer.

xDANx
Jan 13, 2007, 08:07 PM
Now I really wonder if this phone will ever reach Belgium : locked phones are forbidden here, as are contracted phones (you must have the freedom here to choose your own divider).

Imho the iPhone business sounds more and more like serious BS, I hope Apple will realise this in time so all this niceness doesn't go the newton way...

maybe i'm being overly generous, but i think that apple is only playing the cell phone industry's game because they fell like they have to (for now). if a more civilized society (like belgium, apparently) has decided to do away with locking cell phones to specific providers then apple will probably happily sell you an unlocked iphone directly. the only issue would be trying to make sure an underground railroad of belgian iphones making their way back to north america doesn't spring up. oh, and i'm unsure if apple would be willing to sell their phone if none of the providers supported the features they think are important to the 'iphone experience'...like visual voicemail, for example.

anyway...lots of questions still to be answered obviously...but i don't think that you need to despair just yet.

Kingssman
Jan 13, 2007, 08:08 PM
Once again, the phone companies have taken a perfect phone with a wide range of capabilites and unlimited potential and converted it into another useless peice of hardware.

Its like what they did with the V710 and Razor, both phones severely got their potential cut.

and the OSX part is very missleading. When Pocket PC came out they didn't call it "Windows XP" with all the features and run your favorite windows apps.

For size? the thing is all screen. Why would anyone want it smaller?. It doesn't seem too big than any other palm device.

Now for cingular, You pay for the minutes, you have to pay for your own ringtone, (which uses airtime) then if you want to use the Itunes, you have to pay again for the same song that you use for ringtone (uses airtime). Why bother having wifi at all on the thing?

Oh well, it's not apple's fault. They have a perfect peice of hardware that has the potential to become the smallest and most mobile handheld computer/phone. The thing can maybee run OSX applications like acrobat or heck photoshop (if it would run on a who knows how small of proccessor and how little ram and whatever hardrive is left) but cingular has diminished the iphone into nothing more than a phone/mp3/video player with internet ability (which is like a vcast phone with a bigger screen.)

matticus008
Jan 13, 2007, 08:46 PM
and the OSX part is very missleading. When Pocket PC came out they didn't call it "Windows XP" with all the features and run your favorite windows apps.
They called it Windows. OS X is a brand just like Windows, and the software on this phone seems to have more in common with Mac OS X 10.5 than Windows Mobile 2005 has in common with XP.

The presentation never claimed that it was running a full desktop installation capable of running applications off the shelf. It will never run Acrobat or Photoshop as we know them.

What's the difference? It can't possibly be any more misleading than the CE-based products, and from the look of things, there are a number of major technologies shared between the iPhone and full-blown OS X: WebKit, Core Animation, CoreImage, Cocoa, Dashboard, any number of API frameworks, and who knows what else.

barnaby
Jan 13, 2007, 10:01 PM
Now I really wonder if this phone will ever reach Belgium : locked phones are forbidden here, as are contracted phones (you must have the freedom here to choose your own divider).

Imho the iPhone business sounds more and more like serious BS, I hope Apple will realise this in time so all this niceness doesn't go the newton way...

It will be locked in the US. That doesn't mean it will be locked in other countries. The BS is the state cell phone carriers are in within North America. They bleed you dry, don't innovate and lag behind the rest of the world. Plans are good, but features are often pretty dated.

Apple needs to team with a carrier in exchange for some say in how to improve the carrier's network abilities. Today it's visual voicemail, a few months down the road it'll be something else. Within a few years, the US networks might be able to catchup to asia.

barnaby
Jan 13, 2007, 10:05 PM
They called it Windows. OS X is a brand just like Windows, and the software on this phone seems to have more in common with Mac OS X 10.5 than Windows Mobile 2005 has in common with XP.

The presentation never claimed that it was running a full desktop installation capable of running applications off the shelf. It will never run Acrobat or Photoshop as we know them.

What's the difference? It can't possibly be any more misleading than the CE-based products, and from the look of things, there are a number of major technologies shared between the iPhone and full-blown OS X: WebKit, Core Animation, CoreImage, Cocoa, Dashboard, any number of API frameworks, and who knows what else.

It may not run acrobat, but OS X has PDF as it's display model making it very easy to display pdfs. If they've brough core image, it's likely the display model hasn't change much. We should expect native PDF support.

For anything short of professional publishing, OS X's pdf support is far more convenient (speed-wise especially) than acrobat.

matticus008
Jan 13, 2007, 10:32 PM
It may not run acrobat, but OS X has PDF as it's display model making it very easy to display pdfs.
No argument there (except that it's "its"), but there is a vast difference between PDF display and the $400 Adobe Acrobat.

EricNau
Jan 13, 2007, 11:25 PM
Why does everyone including Apple still call it Cingular when it is officially becomes "Wireless by AT&T" on January 15th? They should have just announced the whole thing using that name since it is changing to AT&T in a few days anyhow. Seems like their would be less confusion to the average consumer.
...Because as of now, it's still Cingular.

It would me much more confusing for customers if Apple introduced the iPhone and claimed it was only compatible with 'wireless by AT&T,' because there's no such company (yet).

coal
Jan 14, 2007, 12:21 AM
the 1 year warranty is general the industry standard even with a 2 year contract. Something I recommend to any one who owns a cell phone is always get insurance on it. It a life saver for when you need it and it worth the 3-5 bucks a month you pays for it.

As a former AT&T Wireless employee who left a year after Cingular's acquisition of the company, here are a couple of comments, both good and bad:

Bad: The iPhone most likely will not have insurance available for it upon launch. Most of the high-end phones (such as the RAZR and various PDA/Smartphones) were on a specific list of equipment that was unavailable for insurance coverage. This was true when I was employed and could change, but it's doubtful based upon Cingular's past business choices.

Good: Cingular will unlock phones under certain situations. One of those situations is for the purposes of international travel. If you call Cingular and request your phone to be unlocked, Cingular will if you state that you're traveling abroad and wish to use a SIM card from a foreign provider while away from the United States.

Of course both of these may not apply to the iPhone as it is in uncharted territory, but specifically in regard to the unlocking problem, the request is reasonable if offered as above and should be honored without issue.

Sped
Jan 14, 2007, 11:19 AM
There is no 3G market in the US for GSM operators. It simply does not matter in this country. In other markets where it's significant, it will certainly be available for their iPhone, and when someone in the US builds a 3G or 4G network, then it will matter. Until then, it's better to focus on the things that actually matter. Why add 3G if no one can use it and if there aren't any concrete plans for people to be able to use it in the future?


I don't know where you live, but 3.5G (HSDPA) is quite accessible here in Las Vegas. By this summer, there will be many more markets than the 50 or so that currently get 3G. I realize it's not the same as EV-DO, but at the same time, shelling out $5-600 for a phone that can't take advantage of 3G is future failure.

Maybe Apple is waiting for WiMAX or some other technology, but you can't depend on WiFi hotspots being available everywhere you go. You need options and EDGE doesn't cut it.

I like the iPhone, but I won't likely buy the first generation because I'm not convinced it won't be obsolete by the end of the year.

Anonymous Freak
Jan 14, 2007, 03:50 PM
Hey there, just a minute
Take a look at the actual specs:

2.4" wide x 4.5" high
now take a ruler and draw that out on your hand.
The Apple pictures make it look bigger than it actually is.
This thing is "small as *****™"

Try the website sizeasy (http://www.sizeasy.com). (Sorry, doesn't work right in Safari, try Firefox.) Enter in the dimensions of your products, and see how it compares.

The iPhone is slightly taller than the 30 GB iPod, but the same width and thickness. So if you have a 30 GB iPod (the current 'thin' one, not the old 3G 'thick' 30 GB iPod,) hold it to your ear. And the viewable area of the iPhone's display is slightly shorter than the regular iPod's entire face, for a viewing area size comparison. My only complaint (without actually holding one,) about size is that it's a little wider than I would like. I've got big hands, but holding an iPod to my ear, it just feels a little too wide. It really isn't a small device. It's smaller than a Newton, smaller than a Nintendo DS Lite, but bigger than a full size iPod. I suppose that's the tradeoff for having a huge screen.

ts1973
Jan 14, 2007, 04:13 PM
For those of you that speak a little German :

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B0002W4OVW


And for all others : you get the picture :rolleyes:

€899 (or about $1200 including taxes) for the 4Gb version is actually the price I'm expecting for an unlocked version...

coachingguy
Jan 14, 2007, 04:29 PM
Who are we really mad at?
Apple and Steve Jobs for bringing a potentially great piece of technology to us?
Cingular for trying to protect their interests?
Both Apple and Cingular for apparently showing disregard for the consumer?

In the end, the US cell phone and wireless market is a unmitigated disaster. The entire network concept is awful. How are we the only country/continent that cannot agree on a network, GSM vs. CDMA vs... The rest of the world seems to have figured this out, not us.

Cell phones and wireless networks are purposely anti-consumer and pro-business. I read all of the postings from our European friends and think to myself, why are you guys mad? When the iPhone comes to you, your governments have protected you and you won't be getting the shaft the way we are in the US and North America.

Robert X. Cringley, technology writer, has written about these issues many times. The cell phone companies make so much off of the service plans, fees and other misc. things they should essentially give us the phones of our choice for free. We should be expecting the costs of the plans to be dropping and the benefits to be rising. That's not happening.

As long as the consumers are willing to take it and pay for it, why should the Wireless companies change? Our pro-business gov't certainly isn't going to get involved.

The Europeans and Asians have been way out in front of the US for years. Coverage is better, benefits are greater and costs (on average) are lower.

We should appreciate the technology involved in the iPhone. Most will lust after at it and many will buy it. The iPhone is what the market requires it to be; no better, no worse.

I waited to get a smart phone until the Keynote. Experienced about 4 hours of Mac lust and then ordered my treo. I live in a rural area not covered by Cingular, and according to a c.s. rep they are in no hurry to establish service here for a while.

So the new iPhone, regardless of what it does have or doesn't have is of no use to me. I will however be waiting for the iPod version of the iPhone! :D 40 gigs, same interface, maybe a little smaller $299 or less.

just my nickels worth.

Coachingguy

BostonPops
Jan 14, 2007, 06:19 PM
You people are pathetic. Go design something. Anything. Go negotiate a multi-million dollar deal with a cell phone company and the RIAA and see if you come away with EVERYTHING you want. I'm not buying an iPhone simply because I don't want one. I'm not gonna whine about ringtones and batteries, though.

I've got news for you all. Musical ringtones are ridiculous and annoying. I don't care if you have the greatest song in the world in your iTunes library...don't use it as a ringtone. Grow up a little and realize that other folks don't want to hear your music.

I am a chip designer. Every design project starts with lofty goals that are then tempered in as reality sets in. I am constantly amazed by the innovation and engineering that goes into Apple products. I'm also constantly amazed by the complaints people come up with.

dr427
Jan 14, 2007, 07:39 PM
Try the website sizeasy (http://www.sizeasy.com). (Sorry, doesn't work right in Safari, try Firefox.) Enter in the dimensions of your products, and see how it compares.

Cool website! Thanks!:D

840quadra
Jan 15, 2007, 12:57 PM
- No wireless iTunes downloads/purchases

If that is fact, that is really quite sad.

It has internet access, it has itunes, why not let users buy songs via their iPhone ?

numediaman
Jan 15, 2007, 04:44 PM
I don't know if this is mentioned elsewhere here, but I found this pretty funny . . . .

I just received this in an e-mail newsletter:

Cingular rebrands as AT&T
San Antonio—Following its acquisition of Cingular, AT&T is rebranding the wireless service as AT&T, beginning today.

Apple partners with a brand that no longer exists. Someone is manufacturing is rushing to wipe out those Cingular logos and quickly switching to AT&T.

SeaFox
Jan 15, 2007, 04:53 PM
Apple partners with a brand that no longer exists. Someone is manufacturing is rushing to wipe out those Cingular logos and quickly switching to AT&T.

There are no Cingular logo on the iPhone, so nobody needs to do any changes in manufacturing. The logo is only in the upper left corner of the iPhone's screen, so someone will just have to change the text in the iPhone software.

matticus008
Jan 15, 2007, 06:06 PM
If that is fact, that is really quite sad.

It has internet access, it has itunes, why not let users buy songs via their iPhone ?
It doesn't have iTunes.

The iTunes store portion is a massive executable that's not really smartphone-friendly. They would have to shave it down immensely to fit into the size limits they're working with (iTunes is 57MB; Safari on the other hand can be squeezed down to ~2MB if it's anything like Firefox). The iTunes Store also doesn't have a useful low-resolution interface that would make buying easy, and they'd need some sort of system for copying mobile purchases back to the main computer, and for authenticating the phone securely, and for lots of other little functions.

Some of these problems are fairly easy to solve, but if you can't fix the big ones, then there's no point in starting. Maybe in the future, there will be a low-resolution iTMS interface and a small enough binary to run it, and we'll be able to buy music from the phone (maybe there will even be enough bandwidth one day to get videos, too). But today is not that day.

mavherzog
Jan 15, 2007, 10:22 PM
No, it will be AT&T
Funny. So my cell service went from AT&T Wireless to Cingular to back to AT&T.

nitynate
Jan 15, 2007, 10:29 PM
Funny. So my cell service went from AT&T Wireless to Cingular to back to AT&T.
Seconded.

This is crazy. We just need one phone company called "cell phone"
...or something.

Anonymous Freak
Jan 16, 2007, 02:31 AM
Just so people realize, though, "The new at&t" is not the same as the old "AT&T Wireless".

AT&T Wireless was created by the old "AT&T", then spun off as a 100% independent company. It just retained the AT&T name.

Cingular was formed as a joint venture by SBC and BellSouth. Cingular bought AT&T Wireless, then essentially just closed it, transitioning all former AT&T Wireless customers over to Cingular, rather than actually merging the two companies. Years later, SBC bought AT&T, (no, it was not a merger, SBC is definitely the 'parent' company in the deal,) and then renamed itself at&t, bringing 50% of Cingular's ownership under the "at&t" name, even though it really is a different company. This new at&t then bought BellSouth, bringing Cingular 100% under "at&t" ownership.

(Of course, if you want to get *REALLY* complicated, SBC and BellSouth were both formed by the 1984 breakup of AT&T in the first place... So it's all the same 'family' all along.)


And as for the 'Cingular' on the display of the iPhone, most cell phones get their network name from the network itself. So, for example, when Cingular bought AT&T Wireless, cell phones started saying "Cingular" instead of "AT&T Wireless" on their displays, with no software update needed. Likewise, if you have an unlocked GSM phone, you see either "Cingular" or "T-Mobile", whichever you happen to be connected to. (I have an unlocked T-Mobile phone, yet when I roam into an area with a strong Cingular signal, and no T-Mobile signal, my phone's display changes to read "Cingular".)

SeaFox
Jan 16, 2007, 02:41 AM
So, lets summarize your post:

Just so people realize, though, "The new at&t" is not the same as the old "AT&T Wireless".

The truth:

Cingular was formed as a joint venture by Southwestern Bell Company and BellSouth. Years later, Southwestern Bell (now renamed "SBC") bought AT&T, and then renamed itself at&t, bringing 50% of Cingular's ownership under the "at&t" name. Then a year later, bought BellSouth, bringing Cingular 100% under "at&t" ownership. SBC and BellSouth were both formed by the 1984 breakup of AT&T in the first place, so it was all the same 'family' all along.

The corporate shell game crap needs to be stopped. AT&T was broken up over anticompetitive practices and poor customer service, now we have a company called "at&t" (note the new non-threatening lower case letters) that has a stranglehold on the iPhone for a ridiculously long time and requires an equally rediculous contract period while the hardware itself only has a warranty half the time.

But this isn't the same "AT&T" there are other baby bells still out there. After all, there's still Pacific Bell...

Oh, wait. They were bought by BellSouth, which was bought by: at&t.

Okay, there's Ameritech...

Oh... no. they were bought by Verizon.

And judging by the way Verizon "enhances" the bluetooth features on phones we know they're on the consumer's side. :rolleyes:

The only reason the new at&t isn't the same as the old AT&T is because Verizon has gotten too big through its own setup of mergers and aquisitions to be bought by them.