Ahmadinejad and Chavez want OPEC to cut oil production

[MACDRIVE]

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6258243.stm)



Iran and Venezuela back oil cuts

The two leaders have referred to one another as 'brother'
The presidents of Venezuela and Iran have called for a cut in oil production by the members of the Opec oil cartel.
Speaking in Caracas, Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said they wanted to co-ordinate the group to reduce the amount of crude oil on the market.

Mr Ahmadinejad is visiting Venezuela at the start of a tour aimed at boosting ties with Latin America.

Venezuela has been a strong ally of Iran in its controversial pursuit of a nuclear power programme.

Mr Chavez welcomed Mr Ahmadinejad to Caracas, calling him a "fighter for just causes, to a revolutionary and a brother".

He said the world oil market was oversupplied with crude, and said Opec should act to stop falling prices.

Both countries are major oil producers and members of Opec.

Venezuela and Iran have also agreed to establish a $2 billion fund for projects across the developing world, he added.

US opponents

While in Latin America, the Iranian president will also meet the leftist leaders of Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua.

Mr Ahmadinejad's talks with some of the US's most vocal critics is likely to alarm Washington, says one of the BBC's Latin America correspondents, Duncan Kennedy.

With his eyes fixed firmly on the Middle East, the last thing President Bush wants is another hostile diplomatic front opening up in his own backyard.


Iran insists that it nuclear programme aims to provide energy

But with the arrival of the Iranian president in the region, that is exactly what some commentators are predicting.

The most worrying alliance for Washington is that being forged between Iran and Venezuela, our correspondent says.

Mr Chavez and Mr Ahmadinejad are expected to sign a series of new trade and economic co-operation agreements.

"Iran and Venezuela are two important allies on a global level, the two countries have important industrial and oil projects, which we will follow up in this trip," Mr Ahmadinejad said ahead of his trip, according to the state-run Irna agency.

Uneasy relations

Washington will be watching closely for any concrete measures or policies that develop - chief among them, any sign of Venezuela pursuing its own nuclear programme in conjunction with Iran.

That would be unacceptable to Washington and would turn what are now uneasy relations between the two states into something much more serious, our correspondent says.

Mr Ahmadinejad will also visit Nicaragua, where Daniel Ortega, the former Sandinista revolutionary, took office this week following his convincing election victory.

The Iranian president will also attend the swearing-in ceremony of President-elect Rafael Correa in Ecuador on Monday.

Ecuador's new president opposes a free-trade agreement with Washington, arguing it is damaging to Ecuadorean industry.

Mr Ahmadinejad is also expected to meet other South American leaders, including Bolivia's Evo Morales, on the sidelines of the ceremony.





That does it, it's time to nuke the bastards. :mad:

Edit: Forget I said that. I just remembered that the prettiest girls in the world are in Iran. Since Ahmadinejad is going to be in South America, I call on the CIA to take the shot.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Another country Bush doesnt want to talk with. I think the U.S. would be better served by talking with everyone. Basing our country policys on Corporation Greed is a mistake, Our govt was suppose to be by the people not by the corporations. Bush could learn from that. He's letting the corporations run our foreign policy and thats a huge blunder.

Venezuela through Chavez was sending oil here for the poor, something I have never seen out of any Bush's big Oil guys. That has to be said even if it was just political but I like it better then Secret meetings with big oil like Cheney Bush have pulled off even giving them huge tax breaks during record profit years.

[srf4real]

I say good riddance to the money loving b*tches. The sooner we all get off the oil addiction the better chance we have of existing in 100 years.:rolleyes: :cool:
Global warming will affect Venezuela and Iran alot worse than alot of other nations anyways, and in part their gesture is noble if not innocently motivated by goodness.;)

[pseudobrit]

That does it, it's time to nuke the bastards. :mad:

Edit: Forget I said that. I just remembered that the prettiest girls in the world are in Iran. Since Ahmadinejad is going to be in South America, I call on the CIA to take the shot.

Good to know the only thing stopping you from promoting nuclear holocaust is your horniness.

Are you 15?

[skunk]

That does it, it's time to nuke the bastards. :mad:Personally, I think anyone who suggests this even as a joke deserves to have their testicles roasted over a slow fire.

[MACDRIVE]

Are you 15?

When I was 15, even the ugley ones were on my target list. :)

[it5five]

So we should nuke people who want to produce less oil? Why?

They should be applauded, since this cut in oil production will mean that we need to start looking for alternative fuel sources.

[D0ct0rteeth]

exactly. Please cut production. Cut it all the way down to 0 barrels a day.

So we should nuke people who want to produce less oil? Why?

They should be applauded, since this cut in oil production will mean that we need to start looking for alternative fuel sources.

[clevin]

OPEC always cut production when price is low, is that not GOP market theory?

[MACDRIVE]

So we should nuke people who want to produce less oil? Why?

I said that out of anger because for the first time in over a year, our gas prices have dropped down to $2.49 a gallon. Therefore for the first time, I felt directly affected by Ahmadinejad's ludicrous comments. :mad:

My testicles slow roasted over an open flame? I think I would rather be standing next to the nuclear device when it went off. ;)

[srf4real]

My testicles slow roasted over an open flame? I think I would rather be standing next to the nuclear device when it went off. ;)

Please note the sarcasm in my previous comment; IF it were done as a noble gesture and not out of greed this would be an honorable act... as it is, it may very well be a prelude to war. Next we'll hear about Venezuela building nuclear reactors.:eek:

[MACDRIVE]

IF it were done as a noble gesture and not out of greed this would be an honorable act...

No, they're definately not being nobal; they're just trying to be hateful because they hate Bush. But they should choose a way of directly dealing with Bush without directly affecting [my] personal income.

I want a replacement for oil just as much as you do. I have an special disdain feeling towards diesel powered pick-up trucks with their fumes being sucked in through my air vents, but I just don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) should have to pay out of my pocket book for Ahmadinejad's beef with Bush.

[pseudobrit]

I said that out of anger because for the first time in over a year, our gas prices have dropped down to $2.49 a gallon. Therefore for the first time, I felt directly affected by Ahmadinejad's ludicrous comments. :mad:

And it's mostly your fault for allowing him to have such power over you and your finances.

I think I would rather be standing next to the nuclear device when it went off. ;)

The CIA might be looking for volunteers.

No, they're definately not being nobal; they're just trying to be hateful because they hate Bush. But they should choose a way of directly dealing with Bush without directly affecting [my] personal income.

I want a replacement for oil just as much as you do. I have an special disdain feeling towards diesel powered pick-up trucks with their fumes being sucked in through my air vents

Ironic that those pickups are pulling down better mileage than their clean gasoline counterparts. Your "special disdain" seems as misguided as your stated justfications for using or not using nuclear weapons.

[MACDRIVE]

Ironic that those pickups are pulling down better mileage than their clean gasoline counterparts. Your "special disdain" seems as misguided as your stated justfications for using or not using nuclear weapons.

pseudobrit -- You've got one of those damn things don't you? Those things reek. I've been known to take a left turn onto another street just to get away from one.

[dllavaneras]

That does it, it's time to nuke the bastards. :mad:

Seeing that I live in Venezuela, I appreciate that. People like you make the world a better place

[zimv20]

pseudobrit -- You've got one of those damn things don't you?
i've got a late-model VW diesel. diesel technology has come a long way, and basing opinions on what p'brit and i drive from semitrucks and busses will lead you to erroneous conclusions.

my diesel runs cleanly, quietly, and efficiently. my mileage is about 40/55, even with my lead foot.

[pseudobrit]

pseudobrit -- You've got one of those damn things don't you? Those things reek. I've been known to take a left turn onto another street just to get away from one.

Yeah, great. I run biodiesel and get 50mpg.

[SMM]

"Nuke the bastards", hopefully that is a joke. If not, maybe you can explain how that solves anything?

[MACDRIVE]

"Nuke the bastards", hopefully that is a joke. If not, maybe you can explain how that solves anything?

Alright, how about if we could drop Chavez and Ahmadinejad off by themselves in a desolate area of Africa and then nuke just the two of them? Does that sound better?

[it5five]

How about we don't nuke people because they want to make their own decisions? Or should the US make all decisions for the entire world?

[MACDRIVE]

How about we don't nuke people because they want to make their own decisions? Or should the US make all decisions for the entire world?

Like it or not, the U.S. needs oil to operate. Not just for cars and motorcycles, but for B1 bombers and Abram tanks. It's essential for our security. Thats why I think Bush is spending too much time trying to set up friendly governments, when he should just go in and seize all the oil fields and be done with it. I think it would save more soldiers lives rather than to keep tip toeing around all those mad Arabs.

[it5five]

Are you kidding? Seriously?

How about we stop wasting oil on our tanks and weapons. Of course, people don't die this way, so you probably won't be satisfied.

[aquajet]

my diesel runs cleanly, quietly, and efficiently. my mileage is about 40/55, even with my lead foot.

I've seen quite a few TDIs on the road lately and hardly ever see any soot from the tailpipe or smell diesel exhaust while following. Plus, they feel a bit peppier in the low end and get higher mileage than my gas Beetle.

They're really excellent powerplants and it's great to see so many around here.

[MACDRIVE]

I wish we didn't have to spill blood for oil, but since it's going to happen anyway, I wish there was a way to confiscate the oil without losing the lives of our military people.

[pseudobrit]

Thats why I think Bush is spending too much time trying to set up friendly governments, when he should just go in and seize all the oil fields and be done with it.

Establishing a precedent where might makes right in terms of economic and trade negotiations will put the civilised world at a disadvantage when trying to establish consensus and stability.

For instance, imagine China as the number one superpower, able to crush our military. Would you support them seizing Alaska's oil fields simply because they needed the oil?

[pseudobrit]

I wish we didn't have to spill blood for oil, but since it's going to happen anyway, I wish there was a way to confiscate the oil without losing the lives of our military people.

I'm burning a biodiesel blend. I don't need Iran's oil.
You're the one burning enough gasoline to care about a $.50 pump increase.

Why don't you join the military to help "secure" the Middle East?
Why don't you look for ways to reduce your own use of oil?

Take some personal responsibility for your impact on your own finances and on the nation's oil dependency.

[MACDRIVE]

Would you support them seizing Alaska's oil fields simply because they needed the oil?

As long as they compensated us for the oil they take, sure.

[Blue Velvet]

I wish there was a way to confiscate the oil...

The American Way. Who said it was yours to confiscate?

[MACDRIVE]

Why don't you join the military to help "secure" the Middle East?




If things start getting real bad, they might need me to go back in. ;)

[MACDRIVE]

REUTERS (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nSP335372&imageid=top-news-view-2007-01-11-163347-RTR1L2YH_Comp%5B1%5D.jpg&cap=Workers%20stand%20on%20a%20platform%20at%20the%20first%20pumping%20station%20on%20Belarus%20terr itory%20of%20the%20Druzhba%20pipeline,%20near%20a%20village%20of%20Bobovichi,%20some%20330%20km%20(2 05%20miles)%20southeast%20of%20Minsk,%20Jan.%2011,%202007.%20REUTERS/Vasily%20Fedosenko%20(BELARUS)&from=business)

Well, they got their wish; the damn bastards. :mad:

[Dont Hurt Me]

REUTERS (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nSP335372&imageid=top-news-view-2007-01-11-163347-RTR1L2YH_Comp%5B1%5D.jpg&cap=Workers%20stand%20on%20a%20platform%20at%20the%20first%20pumping%20station%20on%20Belarus%20terr itory%20of%20the%20Druzhba%20pipeline,%20near%20a%20village%20of%20Bobovichi,%20some%20330%20km%20(2 05%20miles)%20southeast%20of%20Minsk,%20Jan.%2011,%202007.%20REUTERS/Vasily%20Fedosenko%20(BELARUS)&from=business)

Well, they got their wish; the damn bastards. :mad:It doesnt matter, Oil is a finite supply and our nation after 6 yrs of this president & Congress still has no energy policy except Oil. Brilliant, thats looking to the future. Not developing Solar,Thermal,Nuclear, and BioFuel shows just how our govt is bought off by Big Business.

[srf4real]

Al Gore would have had us in better shape by now. He knows what's up. But it is very difficult to get along with people who hate me just because I am me. So I can get along without oil... and have plenty of ammunition if those dictators want any they can come over here and try it! Who believes that their reactors are really for anything other than weapons against the west? (and *Israel*)

[mactastic]

The American Way. Who said it was yours to confiscate?
God did. Just ask him. ;)

As to the issue at hand, would the US allow another country to tell us what we should charge for something we produce? Do other nations not have the right of self-determination? Are they all subject to making decisions based on what is in the United States' national security interest, or can they make decisions (even wrong ones) based on their own national security interest?

We can gripe about whether we like the decision or not, but it seems to me that their right to make those decisions is absolute. Because if it isn't, then what right do we have to make decisions that affect other people's national security?

Perhaps if we were better at politely asking people not to hate us instead of ordering them not to hate us we'd have better relations with countries that have our national security interests in their hands?

[MACDRIVE]

I'm all for high gas prices leading the way to a new energy source; [if] they were to stay at a high price for an extended period of time, rather than going up and down every few months.

[skunk]

Who believes that their reactors are really for anything other than weapons against the west? (and *Israel*)I do, for one. They can see as well as anyone that possession of nuclear weapons is the only sure way to dissuade some nutcase in Washington not to use their country in a political card game. What would they possibly gain by making their customers glow in the dark?

[obeygiant]

I do, for one. They can see as well as anyone that possession of nuclear weapons is the only sure way to dissuade some nutcase in Washington not to use their country in a political card game. What would they possibly gain by making their customers glow in the dark?

But you still agree that Iran in possesion of a nuclear device would be a bad idea.

[Desertrat]

Chavez' part in this strikes me as ironic. His policies have already dropped Venezuelan production from 3.3 mmbd to 2.8. They export crude to refineries in Corpus Christi and take the gasoline back to Venezuela because the refineries there are way down in output.

Foreign investment capital is hardly available in Venezuela, now, and the native capital has mostly fled. Their main source of income is oil. So, if they cut back any more, whence cometh their money? And at the rate they're going, production is gonna drop some more, anyway...

"Rat

[solvs]

Seeing that I live in Venezuela, I appreciate that. People like you make the world a better place
I keep thinking he's kidding.

I keep hoping he's kidding.

But you still agree that Iran in possesion of a nuclear device would be a bad idea.
Anybody having a nuke is a bad idea.

[skunk]

But you still agree that Iran in possesion of a nuclear device would be a bad idea.Any fruitloop in charge of a nuclear device is a bad idea. Unfortunately, it's a fact of life, and Bush has only made it more likely and more attractive as insurance against attack. Iran is no more loopy than other nuclear powers, actual or potential. Is it worse to characterise your enemies as the "Great Satan" or the "Axis of Evil"?

The fact that we have not had a nuclear exchange in the past sixty years is due more to luck than judgment.

[Queso]

I find this incredible. Firstly, why have so many Americans fallen for the mantra that Iran and Venezuela hate you? They don't hate YOU, but they do hate the policies of your Government. If Americans really want to be respected by the people and leaders of other countries, how about you start respecting in return? Begin by holding your Government accountable for all the BS they inflict on the world in your name, most of which too many of you are unaware. Then try accepting that you don't have a right to anything that lies outside of your own borders. You make up just 5% of the world's population. Stop acting as if the world owes you something. You're not that special.

BTW, Desertrat, the drain in foreign capital in Venezuela is just a tactic the USA has used for decades to bully Latin American countries into siding with Washington.

[MACDRIVE]

You make up just 5% of the world's population. Stop acting as if the world owes you something. You're not that special.


What? Don't you know that us Americans are the world's most precious people?

We set the standard for all the rest of you to strive for.

[Queso]

What? Don't you know that us Americans are the world's most precious people?

We set the standard for all the rest of you to strive for.
You just crossed the line into being obvious :D

[MACDRIVE]

You just crossed the line into being obvious :D

Damn, I was doing such a good job up until now.

[skunk]

Damn, I was doing such a good job up until now.Hmmm.

[mactastic]

But you still agree that Iran in possesion of a nuclear device would be a bad idea.Bad from who's perspective?

Don't you think the Soviets thought that the US having nukes was a Bad Idea? But simultaneously, wouldn't you say it was a Good Idea for the US to have had nukes to protect itself from the Soviet threat?

IOW, does your average Iranian think it's a bad idea for Iran to have a nuke? Does the average American think it's bad for America to have nukes?

[obeygiant]

They don't hate YOU, but they do hate the policies of your Government. If Americans really want to be respected by the people and leaders of other countries, how about you start respecting in return?

I understand what youre saying, but none of us are going to take a vacation in Iran. Its a little hard to get the images of crowds chanting "death to america" out of my head. The reality is that there are people out there who actually want to kill Americans and British and others because a) they dont like our governments policies and b) those people are infidels. Im sure Iran is nice and I'd love to see where they make Shiraz but I'm not going.

[skunk]

I understand what youre saying, but none of us are going to take a vacation in Iran.You might be very surprised at how welcome you would be. Iranians have a long tradition of hospitality.
The reality is that there are people out there who actually want to kill Americans and British and others because a) they dont like our governments policies and b) those people are infidels.They do not want to kill Americans and British because they are infidels, but they certainly do not look kindly on governments run by infidels wishing to impose their ungodly ways upon them, subsidising the oppression of their co-religionists or stationing their troops in the holy lands. The Iranians can tell the difference between individuals and their governments.
Im sure Iran is nice and I'd love to see where they make Shiraz but I'm not going.It's your loss, I assure you.

[Queso]

I understand what youre saying, but none of us are going to take a vacation in Iran. Its a little hard to get the images of crowds chanting "death to america" out of my head. The reality is that there are people out there who actually want to kill Americans and British and others because a) they dont like our governments policies and b) those people are infidels. Im sure Iran is nice and I'd love to see where they make Shiraz but I'm not going.
Iran is not exactly my favourite country on Earth if we're talking travel destinations, but that doesn't in my view give me the right to bomb it into the ground.

When you see 10,000 Iranians on the TV shouting Death to America, try to remember that leaves over 68,000,000 Iranians that aren't. 99% of the people in Iran just want to get on with their own lives, pretty much like in most countries.

[skunk]

Iran does have some pretty amazing sights:
66306
66307
66308
66309
I'm actually thinking of visiting quite soon - if there's anything left of it...

[Dont Hurt Me]

Skunk thats pretty stuff, I wonder how long it will Take Tony & George to blow it up?

[Queso]

Skunk thats pretty stuff, I wonder how long it will Take Tony & George to blow it up?
Well if they don't the resulting insurgency will. This ought to ring a few bells :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/world_enl_1140597872/img/1.jpg

[xsedrinam]

I stlll maintain that one of the greater mistakes, among many, in U.S. foreign policy and diplomacy is to not take Chavez and his Compañeros (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/14/AR2007011400400.html) seriously. We got to listen to this new trinity of Latin leaders over the weekend as both Chavez and Morales attended the installation of Correa as newly elected President of Ecuador. Correa's first act in office, accoring to what he's said, will be to rewrite the Constitution.

Chavez made agreements and signed documents for oil and gasoline reform and the making of refineries to facilitate it in Ecuador.

[zimv20]

Well if they don't the resulting insurgency will.
what kind of insurgency are you envisioning?

[Queso]

what kind of insurgency are you envisioning?
Oh just the standard kick out the invaders one. Really I just used that word to get the photo of what happened to the Imam Ali Mosque in.

[mactastic]

I understand what youre saying, but none of us are going to take a vacation in Iran.
And, once again, you're full of it... (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/16/sports/ME-SPT-WRE-Iran-Wrestling.php)

Just because you don't want to go there doesn't mean no one else does.

[zimv20]

Just because you don't want to go there doesn't mean no one else does.
no kidding. for years, afghanistan and iran have been on my to visit list. i wanted to enter afghanistan through the khyber pass.

might be a few years before that's safe again.

[obeygiant]

And, once again, you're full of it... (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/16/sports/ME-SPT-WRE-Iran-Wrestling.php)

Just because you don't want to go there doesn't mean no one else does.

heres a little snip from the article.. :)

The most recent prominent visit by Americans to Iran was hardly a boost to relations: U.S. former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke and several other Americans attended a conference sponsored by Ahmadinejad's government in December calling into question whether the Nazi Holocaust took place. The conference sparked outrage in the United States and Europe.

[zimv20]

Oh just the standard kick out the invaders one.
gotcha. for no good reason i can think of, i read "insurgency" as "civil war".

[obeygiant]

btw, chavez probably wants to cut oil production because the price of oil is at two year low.


http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/

[solvs]

Firstly, why have so many Americans fallen for the mantra that Iran and Venezuela hate you?
Because a third of us don't know the difference between the gov and the people. Another third doesn't blame them. The rest don't really care.

The Iranians can tell the difference between individuals and their governments.
As I alluded to, something many of us can't. You'd be surprised how many people couldn't tell the difference between Persian and Arabian. Er, the people, not the horses.

Not saying everyone thinks all brown people are evil or anything either, but sometimes I wonder.

[SMM]

Certain facts, which were fairly well known in the early 70's, seem to have been forgotten. I will offer them. If you find them difficult to believe, well the truth is out there for those who want to know.

International Oil is just that. I knows no boundaries, has no national allegiance. The vast majority of Oil is controlled by a very small, elite group of companies/men. They are arguably the most power cartel in the world. The largest oil company is Aramco.

Few people have ever heard of the Arabian American Oil Company. It is a joint operation between Saudi Arabia and the United States (private ownership). This is a typical arrangement. There are only three countries in the world with the wherewithal to find, harvest and distribute oil; US, Great Britain and Holland. The US has several major players in Oil. Holland has Shell and British Petroleum is self-defining.

These companies are competitors, but they are more often than not, partners. They are the quintessential monopoly. Their power is greater than any nation on earth. There is no government official, or elected representative who can oppose them. To do so risks sure suicide (political and physically assisted).

OPEC is a facade. They were created to act as a shield for 'The Mighty'. The fact is, every OPEC country is in total collaboration with the major oil companies. There is no leader who would refuse to play ball. Some may 'rattle their sabre', but it is for show.

The fact is, oil production is controlled by US, British and Dutch oil companies. The Arabs you see sitting around that big OPEC table are front men for the real men calling the shots. They artificially inflate the cost of oil at their whim. If there was ever a group that needed reigned in, it is them. Most people are not stupid (except the far-right). They know this is happening. They have just been beaten into submission.

To suggest whacking a couple small-fish would solve anything causes me to wonder if you know the problem.

[MACDRIVE]

To suggest whacking a couple small-fish would solve anything causes me to wonder if you know the problem.

I create these outlandish threads to facilitate the flow of information from brilliant minds such as yours. My well written, well thought out posts are designed to reel in my prey; like a fishing lure on the high seas. And you sir, with that fasinating post you've just written, is like a prized blue marlin. Thank you. :p :D

[zimv20]

a regular agent provocateur, eh?

[mactastic]

heres a little snip from the article.. :)
Which proves what? Sounds like more Americans who want to visit Iran. Last I heard, there was no law against bigoted conservatives traveling abroad... :p