PowerMac Technical Update?

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/p58c.html) that Apple is planning on quiet internal revisions to the current PowerMac line.

Instead, P58C will include minor internal technical changes, sources said, in a not uncommon practice for Apple. The tweaks are reportedly intended to provide further compatibility with Panther, the next major update to Mac OS X. However, the exact nature of the changes is unknown.

ThinkSecret also expects that the next major revision of the PowerMac could feature the PowerPC 970 chip.

[barkmonster]

I thought macs went through several silent revisions over each period.

The last range had those bugs that made them worthless for audio and they eventually sorted it out in a later revision.

[onemilkid]

I hope that they will solve this in the Apple way.

No Windtunnel. I'm thinking Water-based cooling or something like that, cause the noise is actually the worst thing about the current PowerMacs, or all Big Desktop Maschines.

[maradong]

hm i dont really believe anymore in the ppc 970. it there is only a minor hardware change, there wil probably not be a new cpu, with a new socket...

[geerlingguy]

Hmm...

I'm wondering if the "quiet" part could mean less noise, or if it's just minor technical changes; it would be nice to have a silent (or close to silent) desktop in the studios that I work at --> no more sound insulation around the computer! :)

[artproject]

Power Mac update "could be the last change to the product line" -before Apple releases its next major update, featuring the PowerPc 970 chip
Someone who post this info have to read once again the info on Think Secret site:confused:

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by maradong
hm i dont really believe anymore in the ppc 970. it there is only a minor hardware change, there wil probably not be a new cpu, with a new socket...

Seems some of you are confused. They are updating the current shipping models. So when released, every revised model will work with Panther. This is not a not model, just a tweak to the current line in preparation.

My question, is what happens to those before this tweak?

[PretendPCuser]

Firmware update?

My question, is what happens to those before this tweak? [/B][/QUOTE] :rolleyes:

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by Kid Red
So when released, every revised model will work with Panther.

Does this mean that Panther will only run on the new models? Makes the Panther "upgrade" pretty expensive, no?

It would be normal operating system engineering to modify Panther to run on existing hardware, not vice versa!

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Does this mean that Panther will only run on the new models? Makes the Panther "upgrade" pretty expensive, no?

It would be normal operating system engineering to modify Panther to run on existing hardware, not vice versa!
Now, Aiden, you know that cannot be the case... come on!!
Panther would have to be "aware" of the same architecture as that of Jaguar as well as any more radical implimenation, such as the 970s!
Your statement was designed, I know, to instill a little fear into these beloved readers but any rational person would know that Apple is not going to force anyone to buy a new computer in order to upgrade to their revised OS... that really is way over the top, even for a perpetually dyed in the wool Mac basher!

[-hh]

Originally posted by Macrumors
ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/p58c.html) that Apple is planning on quiet internal revisions to the current PowerMac line.

ThinkSecret also expects that the next major revision of the PowerMac could feature the PowerPC 970 chip.


Apple is only averaging ~6 months between major revisions, so how frequent do these 'minor' ones come along?

If minors come along every 3-4 weeks, this is not news.

But if there's only 0-1 minors between majors, then they expect them to interval at 3-4 months, and this starts to bump up against the rumored earlyish 970 roll-out timelines. As such, we would have to either view this as "bad news" on the prospects of the possibility of the 970 being on the early schedule....or its a disinformation attempt by Apple.

Has Apple ever been caught spreading disinformation?


-hh

[ewinemiller]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
Hmm...

I'm wondering if the "quiet" part could mean less noise, or if it's just minor technical changes; it would be nice to have a silent (or close to silent) desktop in the studios that I work at --> no more sound insulation around the computer! :)

I just got finished replacing all the fans, but one, in my quicksilver with some nice ball bearing aluminum ones. It's much quieter now and I don't have to hide the machine behind a stack of boxes to be in the same room with it anymore. The only original fan left is the tiny fan on the superdrive, it's a bit whiny when it spins up.

[Postal]

What really intrigues me is the fact that Think Secret, of all sites, is suspecting (but not declaring with certainty, mind you) that the PPC 970 will be in the next major PowerMac revision. TS these days is known for posting rumours with a strong level of credibility (witness the recent iBook update as an example), and generally holds back on anything else.

So in other words, this is a good sign - just be sure to give yourself a reality check until more concrete info surfaces.

[drastik]

Originally posted by -hh


Has Apple ever been caught spreading disinformation?




not in the direct sense that you mean, that is most certainly securities fraud. IN this instance, however, its possible for this to be misinformation, but what would be the point?

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by drastik
what would be the point?

To create the impression that the 970 was further in the future than WWDC. PowerMacs are probably not selling well right now considering the number of rumors that point to WWDC. The 15" PowerBook is probably also not doing well.

[skunk]

You'd have thought they were selling so few PMs now as to make this completely pointless...

[fussball]

Originally posted by maradong
hm i dont really believe anymore in the ppc 970. it there is only a minor hardware change, there wil probably not be a new cpu, with a new socket...


why so quick to dismiss everything on the 970 based on this rumor? minor revisions could involve a firmware update

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by wallinbl
To create the impression that the 970 was further in the future than WWDC. PowerMacs are probably not selling well right now considering the number of rumors that point to WWDC. The 15" PowerBook is probably also not doing well.

But why would you buy a current model if you knew a slighly revised model was coming with better support for Panther.

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by fussball
why so quick to dismiss everything on the 970 based on this rumor? minor revisions could involve a firmware update

Or changing a resistor / capacitor that might have caused glitches on some marchines, you never know.

[applemacdude]

i just want them to make 'em faster!

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by rjwill246
Now, Aiden, you know that cannot be the case... come on!!

So you don't think that it makes sense either?

I just find it very strange that it would be necessary to modify the hardware to support an O/S update.

Unless, perhaps, the whole story is overblown and the new systems merely have a firmware update that will be needed eventually for any PM to run 10.3.

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Does this mean that Panther will only run on the new models? Makes the Panther "upgrade" pretty expensive, no?

It would be normal operating system engineering to modify Panther to run on existing hardware, not vice versa!

No, I said that the tweaks would make the new models work with Panther out the box, the older machines will need a firmware update or something.

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
Firmware update?
:rolleyes:

Wow, gee, thanks :rolleyes:

[dongmin]

Originally posted by Postal
What really intrigues me is the fact that Think Secret, of all sites, is suspecting (but not declaring with certainty, mind you) that the PPC 970 will be in the next major PowerMac revision. TS these days is known for posting rumours with a strong level of credibility (witness the recent iBook update as an example), and generally holds back on anything else.

So in other words, this is a good sign - just be sure to give yourself a reality check until more concrete info surfaces.

well everyone and their grandmother is 'suspecting' that
the 970 will make its way into the Powermacs. The question is when, not if. I'd really like for TS to give us a ballpark date for the introduction.

Basically what Thinksecret is saying is that Apple is tweaking the firmware of the current shipping PMs to make them compatible with Panther. My guess is that all PMs will require a firmware update to run Panther. I don't think this has any bearing on the 970 at all.

[Fredo Viola]

If it's true that these changes are to provide more fluid funtioning of Panther then I guess me and my old dual-500 are screwed!

[chmorley]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
So you don't think that it makes sense either?

I just find it very strange that it would be necessary to modify the hardware to support an O/S update.

Unless, perhaps, the whole story is overblown and the new systems merely have a firmware update that will be needed eventually for any PM to run 10.3. Gotta keep up, Aiden. Machines were revised (e.g., changing graphics card) leading up to Jaguar's release to improve compatibility, as well. While Jaguar probably runs best on these machines, it works very well with older machines as well. It seems a good bet that these revisions are comparable or more minor than those leading up to Jag.

Assumptions are dangerous--especially when they're negative.

Chris

[Fredo Viola]

Morley, this here site is all about guesses and assumptions. Total freedom of expression is a necessity. This is the USA.

I have often wondered about why my dual-500 doesn't take to Jaguar as seamlessly as it does on newer computers. Guess it was that bit of tweaking for compatibility that the later models got, and it IS lame. I suppose that's the nature of the development of the Apple computer, so understandable to have to live with, but a bit depressing, considering how expensive these computers are!

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by Fredo Viola
Morley, this here site is all about guesses and assumptions. Total freedom of expression is a necessity. This is the USA.

I have often wondered about why my dual-500 doesn't take to Jaguar as seamlessly as it does on newer computers. Guess it was that bit of tweaking for compatibility that the later models got, and it IS lame. I suppose that's the nature of the development of the Apple computer, so understandable to have to live with, but a bit depressing, considering how expensive these computers are!

That happens with ALL computers. 5 year old machines will not run Windows XP as well as machines fresh off the assembly line. It is a fact you have to live with the day you purchase your computer.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by Fredo Viola
Morley, this here site is all about guesses and assumptions. Total freedom of expression is a necessity. This is the USA.

I have often wondered about why my dual-500 doesn't take to Jaguar as seamlessly as it does on newer computers. Guess it was that bit of tweaking for compatibility that the later models got, and it IS lame. I suppose that's the nature of the development of the Apple computer, so understandable to have to live with, but a bit depressing, considering how expensive these computers are! Thanks for letting me know the rules, Freda--although I'm not sure what makes you think I was trying to inhibit freedom of expression. I just find negative assumptions to be silly and counterproductive. People make themselves nuts for no reason.

I don't tell anyone not to do it, and I will tell them it is dangerous or silly. Just me expressing myself--which I am sure you would support--living in this here USA. ;)

While you believe it is lame that Jag runs better on a new machine than your older machine, I believe that's normal. I find the same issue with trying to run XP on a machine that's 3 years old.

Chris

[Fredo Viola]

Morley,

Yep. You're right. Sorry. I dun axprassed the wrong kinda thought and I be sorry ferit. Please axept my humblist apollageez.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by rjwill246
Your statement was designed, I know, to instill a little fear into these beloved readers but any rational person would know that Apple is not going to force anyone to buy a new computer in order to upgrade to their revised OS... that really is way over the top, even for a perpetually dyed in the wool Mac basher!

No, Apple would never do that...:rolleyes:

[fred_lj]

The interesting thing is, why would Apple put out units with this update, unless the upgrade to the 970 were delayed (i.e., the 970-based PMs are coming later than we thought...)?

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by fred_lj
The interesting thing is, why would Apple put out units with this update, unless the upgrade to the 970 were delayed (i.e., the 970-based PMs are coming later than we thought...)?

The 970s may be announced at the WWDC, but they may not ship for a month or more...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by fred_lj
The interesting thing is, why would Apple put out units with this update, unless the upgrade to the 970 were delayed (i.e., the 970-based PMs are coming later than we thought...)?

Nah, I don't think it necessarily means that. I, rather, look on this as a sign that Panther may be closer than we thought. Perhaps Panther will be ready sooner than September.

[mkaake]

Originally posted by fred_lj
The interesting thing is, why would Apple put out units with this update, unless the upgrade to the 970 were delayed (i.e., the 970-based PMs are coming later than we thought...)?

because apple is still selling these machines, and if panther is due to make it's debut before july, machines shipped in may just might be using panther one day...

i'm with the other person who said that this really has Nothing to do with the 970...

and i think we get in this mindset of two things: what we think as a rumor community is gold, and that apple has a really vested interest in what we think.

just because people say that the current g4 is dead doesn't mean apple doesn't sell them, and it certainly doesn't mean they have no power. i've heard so many people trash talking the dual 1.42's, and that has some serious power. and the other thing i see all the time is this idea that apple is trying to mess with our (the rumor community's) heads. umm, reality check?

matt

sorry if i'm a little down right now, just got back from a memorial service :(

[Goekeli]

Panther soon? July-august maybe. 970? MWSF 04.
IMHO,. Remember, year of the lap top?

Goe

[MacWhispers]

Over ths life of a shipping product, one with unchanging major specifications, there are literally hundreds of these "quiet, minor updates." A discreet component such as a cap or resistor is reselected, the power supply connector is tweaked to fit a little better, a screw that shows a tendency to loosen gets a squirt of goo to hold it down. A wire here's lengthend a tad, one there's shortened... and so it goes. You never see an Apple announcment about these enhancements, as they're just part of the normal way Apple does things to incrementally improve their products.

You have not seen an Apple announcement about this one, either. You have seen Nick make a big deal out of nothing.

Lord, if I did this, I would have new content on MacWhispers every day of the week: "Apple Replaces #4-32 Screw On PCI Card Bracket With #4-40!!!"

Any change in a product that impacts OS compatibility, or changes a published specification, is ALWAYS announced by Apple. It must be announced to avoid liability issues under FTC and SEC advertising and disclosure guidlines. Thus... no Apple announcement about this, no impact on the present PowerMac's major specs or functionality.

[Shaktai]

A few people seem to not have "read" the article. The "minor update" a common practice in the computer industry for years, including with Apple, has probably been in the development channel for some time. We are just hearing about it as it gets implemented.

It is not required for Panther to run, but "improves" compatibility with Panther in some way. What it entails is not clear.

PowerMac sales are slow, but they have not stopped. The majority of the Mac Community does not follow the "rumor mill" the way we do, and will continue to buy what is available, when they need it.

Now if you had to buy a new or replacement box now, wouldn't you want Apple to make sure it is "up-to-date" and compatible with future products to the greatest reasonable extent possible? We don't yet know the status of possible updates for machines purchased prior.

All this really indicates is that the current PowerMac is probably still in production, if the articles time inference is correct. The 970 will come, the only thing we don't know is when.

Think Secret is cautious about what they post. As mentioned, they are attempting to confirm information they have re: the 970. Let's hope they do so soon. While not 100%, their sources do appear in general to be among the most accurate.

The good news here is that Apple's committment to their customer extends to keeping even a machine that is near end of life, as up to date as reasonable. (Speculation: The change may effect only the final assembly process, not actual parts production) As mentioned, perhaps a firmware update or a minor component change.

Making this change does not mean that something new is NOT coming soon. It merely means that PowerMacs are still being assembled, and are still selling to some degree. Minor revisions are not necessarily costly. They are just a "change" of some aspect of the computer.

[3G4N]

... for the perspective.

let's all put the mouse down for a second and chill with the
minor-970-modification-freak-out-session.

you'd think it was the day before christmas, or something : )

[Thom_Edwards]

Originally posted by Goekeli
Panther soon? July-august maybe. 970? MWSF 04.
IMHO,. Remember, year of the lap top?

Goe

So Apple has these super-fast chips, but Stevie told us this was the year of the laptop so they can't release them? Come 12:01 AM, January 1, 2004, kiss your girl and head to your local Apple Store, cuz the year of the laptop is over. 16-chip 3Ghz Powermacs will be on the shelves! (Also, no Powerbook upgrades in 2004--2004 is the year of the desktop!)

I'm not saying your timeline is wrong, just the reasoning might be a little tainted. Don't get too caught up in some marketing slogan, you Ripper, Mixer, Burner, you!

[-hh]

{Re: "What would be the point?"}

Originally posted by wallinbl
To create the impression that the 970 was further in the future than WWDC. PowerMacs are probably not selling well right now considering the number of rumors that point to WWDC. The 15" PowerBook is probably also not doing well.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking.

Logistically, Apple always has to have some sort of product ID# to identify the new models from the old.

Historically, it is public knowledge that these and the EOL's have been sniffed out by the Rumor sites and reported as pre-announced news/evidence.

So the question is if Apple wanted to better conceal a product roll-out, how could they easily go about doing so?

Well, one way is to hide it in plain sight, as a "routine" administrative announcement of a claimed "minor" change percolating through their supply system.

And because they've not specified what the claimed changes are, there is no fraud to get into trouble with the SEC with.

Given Steve's affinity for surprise announcements and his demands for secrecy, it would be logical for Apple to at least consider trying to better conceal supply system details that could be construed as industrial espionage.


-hh

[Remus]

Just a thought...

Why would TS post this if it is a minor revision. It seems, on the surface anyway, to be small news. :confused:

IMHO I think that it shows us that the 970 is coming, but not as immediate as some have made us believe. I think that we may see an update at the earliest July more likey in our hands August/September. ;)

Of course anything is possible :p

[arn]

Originally posted by Remus
Just a thought...

Why would TS post this if it is a minor revision. It seems, on the surface anyway, to be small news. :confused:



It's just news... maybe it's a slow week. I'm surprised so many people are trying to read into it.

Eveything doesn't have to be part of a hidden plan...

arn

[freundt]

Originally posted by -hh
{Re: "What would be the point?"}



This is along the lines of what I was thinking.

Logistically, Apple always has to have some sort of product ID# to identify the new models from the old.

Historically, it is public knowledge that these and the EOL's have been sniffed out by the Rumor sites and reported as pre-announced news/evidence.

So the question is if Apple wanted to better conceal a product roll-out, how could they easily go about doing so?

Well, one way is to hide it in plain sight, as a "routine" administrative announcement of a claimed "minor" change percolating through their supply system.

And because they've not specified what the claimed changes are, there is no fraud to get into trouble with the SEC with.

Given Steve's affinity for surprise announcements and his demands for secrecy, it would be logical for Apple to at least consider trying to better conceal supply system details that could be construed as industrial espionage.
-hh


Wow... and I thought the UFOoligists had the circular logic conspiracy theory thing locked up. (not being mean, but, considering what others have said about "the majority" of the apple buying public do not follow rumor sites, then it stands to reason that we are a small bunch. would apple go through all that trouble just to throw us for a loop?)

_f

[Freg3000]

I believe that the only really important thing in this story for me is that ThinkSecret is finally saying that they think the PPC 970 will make it into the Power Mac line. I like this type of confirmation. :)

Beyond this, I doubt anything really matters.

JMHO

[geerlingguy]

Originally posted by dguisinger
That happens with ALL computers. 5 year old machines will not run Windows XP as well as machines fresh off the assembly line. It is a fact you have to live with the day you purchase your computer.

I believe the opposite; my computer runs much better now, with 10.2, than it did with the original OS, 8.6 (G4/400 Gigabit). It feels faster (albeit not much), it runs even the latest and greatest (such as PS7, DreamWeaver MX, etc.) faster than the OS9 versions -- but this is partially due to OSX vs. OS9.

I use both this G4 and my mom's iMac 800 G4 on a daily basis, and can't feel much of a difference overall, except when rendering in Final Cut or doing heavy processing. I think that Apple does a great job keeping old computers in the loop! :)

[Bob Knob]

In the past when Apple has released a new "paid" OS update they have always (at least to the best of my memory) offered free update for computers purchased after x-date, it seems to usually be about three months back. So, I'm wondering if this is a firmware update, and the date these machines ship would wind up being the cut off point for a free OS upgrade...

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
I believe the opposite; my computer runs much better now, with 10.2, than it did with the original OS, 8.6 (G4/400 Gigabit). It feels faster (albeit not much), it runs even the latest and greatest (such as PS7, DreamWeaver MX, etc.) faster than the OS9 versions -- but this is partially due to OSX vs. OS9.

I use both this G4 and my mom's iMac 800 G4 on a daily basis, and can't feel much of a difference overall, except when rendering in Final Cut or doing heavy processing. I think that Apple does a great job keeping old computers in the loop! :)

That is different, you finally got a modern OS that could use your CPU to its fullest.

What I am refering to is the ability for new features to come out that use new hardware better than old.

People who complain are very ignorant....do they assume that computers never change??

[Gyroscope]

Hmm!

If this turns out to be true I think we won't see any PPC 970 based Macs anytime soon. If the release of new PM was imminent why would they bother to make these revisions now? Wouldn't they rather try to sell all inventory of existing G4 towers?

It could also be that 970's is so expensive and that they have to keep existing G4 line for mid range configurations. But again doesnt make sense. Existing G4 (choked with 133 mhz archaic bus)can't compete on desktop in any form or incranation.
It's just not CPU of this age and I think it should be burried.RIP!


It makes me angry/sad that Apple folks kept their heads firmly dug into sand for so long now. Its apsolutley pathetic to continue to sell and market existing PM G4 stuff when Intel offerings have 800 FSB with CPU clock speeds exceeding 3 GHZ. Maybe Apple will indeed turn into some sort of media company and abandon desktop altogether. Well in the end who's gonna really care? More and more pros are abandoning Mac platform just because they can get faster/cheaper machines elsewhere to do their work. Imagine if there was no OSX! Its great OS and I think it helped slow down Apple's market share decline somehow.

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by Gyroscope


Its apsolutley pathetic to continue to sell and market existing PM G4 stuff when Intel offerings have 800 FSB with CPU clock speeds exceeding 3 GHZ. Maybe Apple will indeed turn into some sort of media company and abandon desktop altogether.

Apple is assuredly not going to evolve into a media company. The music store does absolutely nothing to further that cause and of course Apple never intended it to. The constant harping about Intel and AMD blowing Macs away is true only in that the highest and MOST expensive incarnations of these products put the top end Macs in the shadows but for cryin' out loud mate and the rest of you get a grip on reality and that is this: most people DO NOT USE multi Xeon processored computers and when real world Macs are compared to real world Intel stuff, Macs fare very very well. And, the OSX experience cannot be extricated from the comparisons. Look at the security problems that not only plague the Windows platform but the fact is, the security problem is built into Windows and cannot be fixed! So, you certainly can get to Hell faster on the overheated overbeaten P4s... go ahead... Personally I'd rather have efficiency with fun.

[mkaake]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
Hmm!

If this turns out to be true I think we won't see any PPC 970 based Macs anytime soon. If the release of new PM was imminent why would they bother to make these revisions now? Wouldn't they rather try to sell all inventory of existing G4 towers?

It could also be that 970's is so expensive and that they have to keep existing G4 line for mid range configurations. But again doesnt make sense. Existing G4 (choked with 133 mhz archaic bus)can't compete on desktop in any form or incranation.
It's just not CPU of this age and I think it should be burried.RIP!


It makes me angry/sad that Apple folks kept their heads firmly dug into sand for so long now. Its apsolutley pathetic to continue to sell and market existing PM G4 stuff when Intel offerings have 800 FSB with CPU clock speeds exceeding 3 GHZ. Maybe Apple will indeed turn into some sort of media company and abandon desktop altogether. Well in the end who's gonna really care? More and more pros are abandoning Mac platform just because they can get faster/cheaper machines elsewhere to do their work. Imagine if there was no OSX! Its great OS and I think it helped slow down Apple's market share decline somehow.


*new rule* *new rule*

let's read half of the posts on the board before we flame apple...

just for review... this is a minor revision, like the hundreds (who said hundreds? it's prolly close) that happen over the course of a product line. this rumor has nothing to do with the 970, and they're not screwing their customer - they're helping them. that's what updates are all about.

as for the rest of it, it kinda sounds like things we've been hearing since the 80's

matt

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Goekeli
Panther soon? July-august maybe. 970? MWSF 04.
IMHO,. Remember, year of the lap top?

Goe

What does it being the year of the laptop have to do with whether or not we'll see the 970 this year? There is even a lot of speculation supported by some rumors that we'll see not only 970 Power Macs, but also 970 PowerBooks. Wouldn't that put the capstone on this being the year of the laptop?

[NoVi]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
What does it being the year of the laptop have to do with whether or not we'll see the 970 this year? There is even a lot of speculation supported by some rumors that we'll see not only 970 Power Macs, but also 970 PowerBooks. Wouldn't that put the capstone on this being the year of the laptop?

Hmm, do remember SJ declared the CRT dead and don't we still have an Emac on the menu these days?

Obviously at the time SJ declared 'the year of the powerbook' uncertainty must have been there about the 970 mac

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by NoVi
Hmm, do remember SJ declared the CRT dead and don't we still have an Emac on the menu these days?

Obviously at the time SJ declared 'the year of the powerbook' uncertainty must have been there about the 970 mac

Well, I think that based on what we know, or think we know, anyway, that this is definitely the case. Back in January they didn't know how the production of the 970 would run. Whether or not there was uncertainty about Apple using the 970 in the next gen Power Mac, there was definitely uncertainty as to when the 970 would be available.

So, I still stand by my hope that we'll be seeing a PowerBook 970 in the near future...

[skunk]

According to Macbidouille today, Apple have officially confirmed to some customers that the G4 will be around for another three months.....

[emdezet]

Ehehehehem! Ehrm! Arhaha!
(Sorry, had to clean my keyboard. Haven't posted here in decades.)

So how could a minor change announced not be interpreted as the postponement of the dribblingly awaited 970?

Logic dictates: To make minor improvements to a product line, you must not have discontinued that product previously.

If so, Apple are slapping (have s.o. slap) bottle-necked moto G4 into El-Capitan-descendend minitowers AS I TYPE THIS.

Instead they should (have s.o.) assemble the machines we are all having wet dreams about BY NOW!

Someone (anyone, pretty pleez) point out the flaw in my argument!

[skunk]

Originally posted by emdezet
Someone (anyone, pretty pleez) point out the flaw in my argument!
Flawless :(

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by skunk
According to Macbidouille today, Apple have officially confirmed to some customers that the G4 will be around for another three months.....

In a meeting with IBM sales on Monday, we were told not to expect PPC970-based blades before cyQ4.

If IBM won't be releasing PPC970 kit themselves before October, a June debut of PPC970 Macs seems less likely - unless Apple breaks with tradition and gives an advance preview of 970-based protos.

[skunk]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
unless Apple breaks with tradition and gives an advance preview of 970-based protos. and kills their G4 sales stone dead...

[WorldMage]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
So you don't think that it makes sense either?

I just find it very strange that it would be necessary to modify the hardware to support an O/S update.

Unless, perhaps, the whole story is overblown and the new systems merely have a firmware update that will be needed eventually for any PM to run 10.3.

My guess would be that the new OS stresses some
component more than previous ones. I'm sure they
will work around it in software for the older
machines but why leave the HW 'problem' in now
that they know about it.

This sort of thing is really common. The older
machines will probably not be quite as fast in
some regard with the new OS as the updated
machines. Before people start getting upset
just remember this is a basic fact of life in
the computer industry.

I'm guessing the only reason this is news is
because it may (or may not) point to the 970's
not being right around the corner.

[-hh]

Originally posted by freundt
Wow... and I thought the UFOoligists had the circular logic conspiracy theory thing locked up.


Well, it is an attempt to maintain some degree of optimisim for an "earlier" rollout. :p

A bit more seriously, part of my professional training is to be able to systematically deconstruct elements and ascertain every possible permutation...failure mode causalities, possible outcomes, etc. Here, just because its unlikely doesn't mean that it is not an impossibility.



(not being mean, but, considering what others have said about "the majority" of the apple buying public do not follow rumor sites, then it stands to reason that we are a small bunch. would apple go through all that trouble just to throw us for a loop?)

No offense taken. I see it merely as a possibility, and while its significance for normal mortals would probably be very little, because Steve Jobs has a reputation for information security, including how he will direct that any leak - - no matter how small - - shall be plugged (and the perpetrators punished, if possible), this historical pattern can only serve to shift the odds to make such measures more likely.

You might want to call it a grand conspiracy, and while I won't disagree, I will point out that there is historical precidence of extreme responses that would infer motivation.


Lest we forget ... MacWorld 2000, and ATI's RAGE 128 PRO video card annoucement that came but two days before Steve's Keynote.

The result: ATI's new product was pulled from Apple's hardware line, all mention of their company was stripped from the Keynote, and 6 months later, the PowerMacs came with Nvidia's GeForce2 MX chips instead of ATI's.



-hh

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by Shaktai

Think Secret is cautious about what they post. As mentioned, they are attempting to confirm information they have re: the 970. Let's hope they do so soon. While not 100%, their sources do appear in general to be among the most accurate.


ThinkSecret and this site are the only two rumor sites I would believe for near-announcement rumors. I think people perceive ThinkSecret as being more accurate because they'll only post something at the last minute. This site takes a wider stance on the issue and I'm glad they do so.

Here's what I think will happen over at ThinkSecret. ThinkSecret will take a couple more days and finally announce some hard numbers and dates. These will probably be right, but nothing more than confirmation about what we already know from here, along with a tibit or two of difference.

MacOSRumors has, of late, become sparce and undetailed in their rumors.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
In a meeting with IBM sales on Monday, we were told not to expect PPC970-based blades before cyQ4.

If IBM won't be releasing PPC970 kit themselves before October, a June debut of PPC970 Macs seems less likely - unless Apple breaks with tradition and gives an advance preview of 970-based protos.

Actually, that seems MORE likely to me. Apple will get precedence of all the initial chips because the 970 is designed for them. IBM will not release computers based on the chips until Apple is done stocking up. This is very normal, as seems to solidify the June/July anouncements.

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Actually, that seems MORE likely to me. Apple will get precedence of all the initial chips because the 970 is designed for them. IBM will not release computers based on the chips until Apple is done stocking up. This is very normal, as seems to solidify the June/July anouncements.

That's rather unusual for high-tech - that a company like IBM would agree to make a small profit selling chips to a third party, instead of making a larger profit using the chips in its own systems.

I've worked with many new chips, and I think this info more likely means that:

a. Certainly, quantities of the 970 are extremely limited in Q3 - since IBM's blades could be expected to sell in the range of thousands per quarter (true blades are a small market, and the first few months of a completely new architecture will get people who are interested in trying them out, not huge deployments). I'd be surprised if IBM couldn't keep a few thousand compared to the hundreds of thousands that Apple would need to launch new PMs.

b. Possibly, the current 970 chip (if it is actually sampling, we have no confirmation of that) is defective, and a new pass will be required before production begins. It could take several months if any significant redesign is necessary. (Besides, cyQ3 is not exactly late for the initial predictions of "mid 2003".)

Of course, we're both speculating, and we won't know for sure until the famous "one more thing" line is spoken. ;)

[Shaktai]

Sigh! :rolleyes:

Too many people are reading far too much into all this. All the annoucement means is that a minor revision is being done to "improve compatibility" of the current PowerMac line with Panther. Nothing more. No consipiracies, no deception, no delays, just good business.

The IBM Fab producing the 970 was at near 1/3 capacity by the end of April. It should be at full production capacity by early July. There will be plenty of chips for both IBM and Apple. If there is a logjam it will be in the board production or assembly stages. The 970 chips will be there. (unlike with Motorola).

The 970 is a collaborative effort between Apple and IBM that started about 2 years ago. When Motorola messed up, Apple started looking for options. IBM was the logical first option. Both companies benefit from the effort. IBM gets a new very marketable chip for its own lower volume blade servers, but the R&D and production costs are mostly paid for by Apple. The end result is both companies can produce a competitive product at a lower "volume" price.

Remember that the original Power PC concept was from IBM. Then Motorola, Apple and IBM all worked together to refine and produce the concept, but the Power PC is now and has always been IBM's brainchild. Nobody knows or does it better.

The 970 will come, when it comes. I still expect teasers (general information) at WWDC and a formal announcement in early July, with immediate availability of some models.

Forget what you know, or think you know about the way things went with Motorola and Apple. The 970 is a whole new ball game. Everything has changed.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Actually, that seems MORE likely to me. Apple will get precedence of all the initial chips because the 970 is designed for them. IBM will not release computers based on the chips until Apple is done stocking up. This is very normal, as seems to solidify the June/July anouncements.

Well, I hope that your interpretation is correct. Unfortunately, I see this latest news as being not very encouraging. I'm now much less optimistic about the prospects for a release this summer.

[anthonylambert]

Look I dunno why you all iz writing all diz stuff....

I iz no expert but I fink its simple.... The current machine iz made of 32 bits and to run the new os they have to make it of 64 bits don't they. I guess they can do diz by using more chips adding more keys to the keyboard and maybe adding some buttons to the mouse or something?

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by anthonylambert
Look I dunno why you all iz writing all diz stuff....

I iz no expert but I fink its simple.... The current machine iz made of 32 bits and to run the new os they have to make it of 64 bits don't they. I guess they can do diz by using more chips adding more keys to the keyboard and maybe adding for buttons to the mouse or something?

You're silly...
:p

[Remus]

Originally posted by Frobozz
MacOSRumors has, of late, become sparce and undetailed in their rumors.

I think that far more sparce than you think. Like in there is no MacOSRumors. The site seems to be gone... :D

[job]

Originally posted by Remus
I think that far more sparce than you think. Like in there is no MacOSRumors. The site seems to be gone... :D

I heard that they are redesigning their site.

At least that's what they had posted a while back.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by job
I heard that they are redesigning their site.

At least that's what they had posted a while back.

Wow. I don't visit MOSR for a few, and suddenly they vanish altogether. In the past when they've done upgrades or redesigns they haven't pulled the site like this.

Hmm. Maybe they got tired of being bashed for being wrong all the time... :D

(But, seriously, I do hope they come back. MOSR is where I got my start on being a rumor monger. It'd be sad if they were gone for good. :( )

[CMillerERAU]

I looked at their site just after all those storms rolled through the east coast and they simply had a message saying all of their servers got fried and all their data lost. It said they were going to try and recoup as much as they could and rebuild the site. Don't expect them up any time soon.

[skunk]

Just in: they surmise that the absence of releases of Darwin code since February except for official updates is because there's too much PPC970 stuff in there these days to hide. Same goes for Developer Tools: no visible progress since December. Another thing: confirmation that 970s at 1.7GHz are due out in July, manufactured using SiLK (low-K silicon) at 0.13microns, which will support an eventual processor speed of 2.3GHz or more. When they move to .09micron wafers at the start of 2004, the material will be something else again, enabling speeds of 2.5GHz, as originally announced. At the end of 2004, IBM will add "strained silicon", enabling the Power 5+ to reach 3GHz, and the PPC970/980 4.5GHz. If all goes according to plan.....

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by emdezet
Someone (anyone, pretty pleez) point out the flaw in my argument!


It was not announced at all. It was rumored from a third party source.
As already stated elsewhere, including in the article itself it is a common occurence in a product lifecycle.
We don't know at what step in the production or distribution process the change takes place. If as simple as a firmware upgrade, it could take place anywhere prior to the Sales channel, or in some instances even within the Sales channel.
Nick from Think Secret posted in another forum that folks were reading way too much into this.
You assume that Apple is only capable of working on one product at a time. Not so. Work is progressing at different levels, on all their product lines.
Why do it? Why not? A minor change that improves a product, and does not incur a significant cost, then improves customer satisfaction which in the long run is a cost benefit. This is an update that improves funtioning with a forthcoming product. Good business dictates you make the improvement.
Board production could have ceased a long time ago. The change if a physical component, could be implemented anywhere in the final assembly process.
While PowerMac sales have slowed, they are not dead. Apple still has to meet demand until the new products are ready, and even the most optimistic estimates are for at least 1.5 more months. That is several thousand sales.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by skunk
Just in: they surmise that the absence of releases of Darwin code since February except for official updates is because there's too much PPC970 stuff in there these days to hide. Same goes for Developer Tools: no visible progress since December. Another thing: confirmation that 970s at 1.7GHz are due out in July, manufactured using SiLK (low-K silicon) at 0.13microns, which will support an eventual processor speed of 2.3GHz or more. When they move to .09micron wafers at the start of 2004, the material will be something else again, enabling speeds of 2.5GHz, as originally announced. At the end of 2004, IBM will add "strained silicon", enabling the Power 5+ to reach 3GHz, and the PPC970/980 4.5GHz. If all goes according to plan.....

Hah, now they're back tracking! So the 970 will top out at 1.7 ghz??? Whatever happened to all the talk of dual 1.8 ghz and IBM's yields being better than expected? And the G4 will continue for another quarter??? That means we won't see the 970 until the Sept/Oct time frame? That's a big change from May, which was their original projection. Why the sudden turn of events? This is not making me happy...

[skunk]

Originally posted by dongmin
This is not making me happy...
Whoa! You need to settle down and take some happy pills....:rolleyes:

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by dongmin
Hah, now they're back tracking! So the 970 will top out at 1.7 ghz??? Whatever happened to all the talk of dual 1.8 ghz and IBM's yields being better than expected? And the G4 will continue for another quarter??? That means we won't see the 970 until the Sept/Oct time frame? That's a big change from May, which was their original projection. Why the sudden turn of events? This is not making me happy...

Try reading the article. The poster mis-stated the information. It is the Power 4, not the 970 which is slated to hit 1.7 ghz in July. No backtracking, rather it reinforces previous speculations of the 970's potential.

With my opinion, the coming of Macintosh containing PowerPC 970 is certain. But APPLE wants to preserve the effect of advertisement.

I had confirmation that it was the low K, leSiLK material, which was at the base of new Power4+ with 1,7 GHz. They will come in July. With same material, PowerPC 970 should turn to 2,3 GHz and more.

Approximately, PowerPC 970 it is finer engraved Power4+. There is not same the exigeances reliability for this type of processor. But the more a processor is finely engraved the faster it is. The problem it is that it reaches physical limits. And it is then necessary to facilitate the passage of the electrons by using materials with low K For IBM, it is SiLK for engraving in 0,13 um. And still new material for engraving in 0,09 um.

As PowerPC 970 is engraved finer than Power4+, it will profit more from this new material. And it should reach in an immediate future 2,5 GHz as IBM announced at one time. At the end of 2003, or the beginning of 2004, it should profit from engraving with 0,09 um. And at the end of 2004, IBM will add le"strained silicon to it ". The goal is always to accelerate the mobility of the electrons. Power5+ will reach 3 then GHz. And PowerPC 970/980 peutêtre 4,5 GHz. If the reports/ratios are maintained.