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View Full Version : deck of "weasel" cards advertised on mac rumors


QCassidy352
May 15, 2003, 07:02 PM
not sure if this belongs here or political... mod, please move if it should be political.

On some macrumors pages there is an ad banner from newsmax.com for a "deck of weasels," playing cards featuring "enemies of america." This includes people such as Jimmy Carter, George Clooney, Hans Blix, Ted Kennedy, and Michael Moore. These people are depicted as "opposing America" and shown wearing Iraqi Republican Guard berets.

I realize that macrumors needs ad money, but I find this extremely distasteful. Yes, I personally disagree with both the form and concept of these cards, but I would hardly be pleased if cards mocking G.W., Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft were advertised here.

This is a *mac* site. There's a political forum, but I would rather not be assaulted with inflamatory propaganda when I enter non-political pages. Ads for online retailers, mac products, and even neutral products don't bother me. I love this site and certainly don't want it to go bankrupt. But it really bothers me that political propaganda, especially mindless and tasteless propaganda, is being shoved on us all. Is there no one else who will buy that ad space??

Arn, I hope you can/ will do something about this. Everyone else, I hope you will make it known how you feel about this.

janey
May 15, 2003, 07:37 PM
i feel offended. i like and respect the beliefs of people like susan sarandon and her husband tim robbins, michael moore and those other people pictured on those cards. To see that someone would actually do something like this is unbelievable. It was bad enough when the US government started giving out decks of cards with the most wanted people on them.

VIREBEL661
May 15, 2003, 07:44 PM
Like the anti France thing - whatever... Yeah, I'm gonna start drinking cheap wine! Are we all 5 years old??? Jeeeeeezzzzz... Very distasteful... Boy, politics are a whole other can of worms that I'm trying to avoid - I might get into some REAL trouble!':D'

iJon
May 15, 2003, 08:18 PM
money is money, and its hard to refuse it when its just posting an internet picture. i have never seen this picture in my ilfe. if you dont like it then just let it be, ignore it or something. but there is no point asking him to lose money over what you think is distastful. maybe its a misunderstanding. i remember spymac had microsoft ads on there site and they said they couldnt control what ads are on there.

iJon

janey
May 15, 2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by iJon
money is money, and its hard to refuse it when its just posting an internet picture. i have never seen this picture in my ilfe. if you dont like it then just let it be, ignore it or something. but there is no point asking him to lose money over what you think is distastful. maybe its a misunderstanding. i remember spymac had microsoft ads on there site and they said they couldnt control what ads are on there.
if i was in arn's shoes though, I would think twice, even though it is pretty hard to resist. However, the ad is pretty offensive to those who oppose anything that the US government does. I am ignoring it, but it's pretty hard.
Microsoft ads are different. This is a somewhat computer-oriented forum and Microsoft is a software company. This is not some political discussions forum where it would be appropriate to have an ad like this. That is what makes it different.

iJon
May 15, 2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by übergeek
if i was in arn's shoes though, I would think twice, even though it is pretty hard to resist. However, the ad is pretty offensive to those who oppose anything that the US government does. I am ignoring it, but it's pretty hard.
Microsoft ads are different. This is a somewhat computer-oriented forum and Microsoft is a software company. This is not some political discussions forum where it would be appropriate to have an ad like this. That is what makes it different.
i dont care about microsoft ads, that wasnt the point i was making. i saw some on spymac and i thought it was odd. i asked the admin why he would put those these and he said they couldnt control what ads go on there, something to do with the company who hosts it or something. but it was not microsfot bashing, it was a point i was making

iJon

janey
May 15, 2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by iJon
i dont care about microsoft ads, that wasnt the point i was making. i saw some on spymac and i thought it was odd. i asked the admin why he would put those these and he said they couldnt control what ads go on there, something to do with the company who hosts it or something. but it was not microsfot bashing, it was a point i was making

iJon
yeah now i get it. however it seems as though arn does have some control over what ads appear, since all of the ads i've seen (until the weasel ad) were in some way or another related to Apple.

jelloshotsrule
May 15, 2003, 08:48 PM
i've seen some other non-apple related ads...

ibookin'
May 15, 2003, 09:08 PM
I think large ad services such as the one that Macrumors uses (does MR use one?) should have an option when you sign up to filter any politically biased ads from appearing on your site. Of course, this would make the ad business less profitable, since companies such as the one advertising here would probably get blocked from appearing on a lot of sites.

On a side note, I've never seen this ad myself.

EDIT: Found a link to these things. Buy them now and you can get a U.S.S. George Bush cap FREE! :rolleyes:

http://www.newsmaxstore.com/nms/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product_ID=1294

vollspacken
May 15, 2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352

Yes, I personally disagree with both the form and concept of these cards, but I would hardly be pleased if cards mocking G.W., Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft were advertised here.

Arn, I hope you can/ will do something about this. Everyone else, I hope you will make it known how you feel about this.

I completly agree with you. Arn, please do something about this tasteless and hateful ad.

vSpacken

Foxer
May 15, 2003, 09:15 PM
How many anti-Bush, anti-US jabs do we read in the forums here, and you people are up in arms about some silly cards! Grow some skin, please!

ibookin'
May 15, 2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Foxer
How many anti-Bush, anti-US jabs do we read in the forums here, and you people are up in arms about some silly cards! Grow some skin, please!

I don't want this to sound like a personal attack here, but...

You missed the point. We're complaining about having the ad there in the first place, not about the cards themselves. While people can think whatever they want about the people in those cards, a board such as this should in no way condone those kind of things on either side of a political argument.

And I'm not even going to begin to comment on "anti-U.S. jabs". :rolleyes:

arn
May 15, 2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
Is there no one else who will buy that ad space??

Arn, I hope you can/ will do something about this. Everyone else, I hope you will make it known how you feel about this.

Well, I have two thoughts on this...

On the one hand.... if anyone finds any particular ad offensive or distasteful... certainly email or pm me about it. I can filter ads and shut out certain ads. I try to filter out adult, casino, and "extreme animation" ads.... but mostly it's as I see them. Blocking out a specific ad is a bit of a pain, as I have to search through a list and on a preliminary look, I couldn't find this offending ad.

Now... on the other hand, another side if me thinks - there is a $20 option (http://www.macrumors.com/contrib.html) for you to shut all ads out. And you can do so easily. And, remember, this site is running on two dedicated servers.... total cost is almost $700/month. The money has to come from somewhere... if not the users, then it's ad companies.

Just keep that in mind... but as I said... I'll try to block this particular ad... if I can find it. :) Send me a screenshot if you run across it.

arn

pivo6
May 15, 2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Foxer
How many anti-Bush, anti-US jabs do we read in the forums here, and you people are up in arms about some silly cards! Grow some skin, please!

It's not the same thing. These ads may to some people be an endorsement of the product(s). I have not seen the ad, so I can't really give an opinion on them.

Anti-Bush, anti-US comments are whooly owned by the people who posted them. Big deifference.

iJon
May 15, 2003, 09:26 PM
i agree completly arn. that is a s*** load of money and like he said, its gotta come from somewhere. You can support the site by two ways, dont complain about the ad and let him post it for money, or pay 20 bucks and you dont have to see the ads. and like i said before, i ahve never seen this ad before in my life on this site.

iJon

herr_neumann
May 15, 2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Foxer
How many anti-Bush, anti-US jabs do we read in the forums here, and you people are up in arms about some silly cards! Grow some skin, please!

I especially love the "you people" part of this reply.....

arn
May 15, 2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by iJon
i agree completly arn. that is a s*** load of money and like he said, its gotta come from somewhere. You can support the site by two ways, dont complain about the ad and let him post it for money, or pay 20 bucks and you dont have to see the ads. and like i said before, i ahve never seen this ad before in my life on this site.

iJon

heh,... I didin't say it quite like that. I am happy to block anything particularly offensive/distasteful... just be aware that ads support the site

arn

iJon
May 15, 2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by arn
heh,... I didin't say it quite like that. I am happy to block anything particularly offensive/distasteful... just be aware that ads support the site

arn
sorry, didnt tend to make it sounds like that. anyways, you said like me you havent seen the ad. do you not see the ads or anything, exactly how does it work?

iJon

Jimong5
May 15, 2003, 09:44 PM
For those in curiousity, here is the place in question: http://www.newsmax.com/weasels/178.shtml

As for those that dont like the cards, whats the deal? 1st, giving flack to Bush is fine, and hes a "dumb idiot", but when your views come under fire its extremely distasteful, and should be screened. Besides, judging most people have montiors at a lower resolution then mine (1280x1024) its a bit of scroll, and volia! the ads hidden under your plesant bookmarks. I personally found the deck sightly humorous. I think thats the problem with society today. Everyone is so up tight and one somewhat offhand comment in their direction, and its "OMG ONO YOU OFFEND ME I SUE YOU" methodology. Point is, if you dont like the banner, dont click the darn thing, who knows, someone may find it humorous.

arn
May 15, 2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by iJon
sorry, didnt tend to make it sounds like that. anyways, you said like me you havent seen the ad. do you not see the ads or anything, exactly how does it work?

iJon

Ads are sold directly... those I handle personally... so I see all those ads.

Other ads are part of an "ad network" -- companies buy ads with the ad networks and distribute them across sites that are part of the network. I don't personally review each of these ads.

arn

Steradian
May 15, 2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by arn


Now... on the other hand, another side if me thinks - there is a $20 option (http://www.macrumors.com/contrib.html) for you to shut all ads out. And you can do so easily. And, remember, this site is running on two dedicated servers.... total cost is almost $700/month. The money has to come from somewhere... if not the users, then it's ad companies.
arn
LMAO arn your the best. O hey is there a way I can donate and not get Demi-status?

QCassidy352
May 15, 2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by arn
Well, I have two thoughts on this...

On the one hand.... if anyone finds any particular ad offensive or distasteful... certainly email or pm me about it. I can filter ads and shut out certain ads. I try to filter out adult, casino, and "extreme animation" ads.... but mostly it's as I see them. Blocking out a specific ad is a bit of a pain, as I have to search through a list and on a preliminary look, I couldn't find this offending ad.

Now... on the other hand, another side if me thinks - there is a $20 option (http://www.macrumors.com/contrib.html) for you to shut all ads out. And you can do so easily. And, remember, this site is running on two dedicated servers.... total cost is almost $700/month. The money has to come from somewhere... if not the users, then it's ad companies.

Just keep that in mind... but as I said... I'll try to block this particular ad... if I can find it. :) Send me a screenshot if you run across it.

arn

Thank you very much for such an understanding response. :)

As I said in the original post, I know that macrumors costs quite a bit to maintain, and I don't think anyone expects that money to come out of arn's own pocket. But, I disagree with iJon that paying the money or shutting up are the only appropriate answers here. I don't get rid of the ads because I actually *like* many of the ads here, such as for redlightrunner. I've even found some really cool sites thanks to macrumors ads. In general, the ads here enhance my experience, hard as that may be to believe.

Given those points, I don't think it's unreasonable to object to some ads in particular. As Arn said, he does screen some ads such as adult or casino ads. Clearly this site is not at the point where it must accept money from any sleezeball who wants to advertise.

Am I demanding anything? Am I making accusations? No, not at all. I am just registering my opinion that this ad, and this form of ad, is distasteful and detracts from my experience here. I don't see how you can object to that iJon.

And Foxer, this really isn't about particular political positions. I would object to an ad by the website that sell "Bush: international terrorist" t-shirts as well.

again, thanks for your understanding arn.

edit: jimong5, you missed the point. Stop making this about a particular point of view. It's about a tasteless and offensive political ad, and the same could be said regardless of who the target of the ad was. Certainly no one is talking about lawsuits. Where are you getting this stuff?

iJon
May 15, 2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
Thank you very much for such an understanding response. :)

As I said in the original post, I know that macrumors costs quite a bit to maintain, and I don't think anyone expects that money to come out of arn's own pocket. But, I disagree with iJon that paying the money or shutting up are the only appropriate answers here. I don't get rid of the ads because I actually *like* many of the ads here, such as for redlightrunner. I've even found some really cool sites thanks to macrumors ads. In general, the ads here enhance my experience, hard as that may be to believe.

Given those points, I don't think it's unreasonable to object to some ads in particular. As Arn said, he does screen some ads such as adult or casino ads. Clearly this site is not at the point where it must accept money from any sleezeball who wants to advertise.

Am I demanding anything? Am I making accusations? No, not at all. I am just registering my opinion that this ad, and this form of ad, is distasteful and detracts from my experience here. I don't see how you can object to that iJon.

And Foxer, this really isn't about particular political positions. I would object to an ad by the website that sell "Bush: international terrorist" t-shirts as well.

again, thanks for your understanding arn.
sorry, i guess i was hoping into that political mode that the whole site is trying to avoid. i guess i felt it was dumb because "I" dont see a big deal in it, i understand your feelings andi respect them, sorry if i made you mad.

iJon

QCassidy352
May 15, 2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by iJon
sorry, i guess i was hoping into that political mode that the whole site is trying to avoid. i guess i felt it was dumb because "I" dont see a big deal in it, i understand your feelings andi respect them, sorry if i made you mad.

iJon

hey, no problem, I'm not at all mad. :) I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood my original objection, and also that it was a personal opinion, not any kind of attack or demand of any kind. I can surely see why some people would not see it as a big deal, but I just started the thread to post my opinion and to see if others agreed.

BaghdadBob
May 15, 2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by übergeek
It was bad enough when the US government started giving out decks of cards with the most wanted people on them.
OK, without getting into the real subject here, what exactly was bad about the Baath most wanted cards? Did that offend someone? They were to help the troops -- who by the way, had a job to do over there -- identify the people they were looking for. I don't see the problem.

janey
May 15, 2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Jimong5
I personally found the deck sightly humorous. I think thats the problem with society today. Everyone is so up tight and one somewhat offhand comment in their direction, and its "OMG ONO YOU OFFEND ME I SUE YOU" methodology. Point is, if you dont like the banner, dont click the darn thing, who knows, someone may find it humorous.
let's see...resolution is 1920x1200...hmm
anyway, you have to realize that the US government's decision to put their most wanted men on decks of cards was distasteful. the weasels thing was even more distasteful. You find it humorous and I will respect your opinion, however those cards are extremely pointless and no offense but the only people who would like those cards are rich caucasian republicans who are against health care for the poor and totally for tax cuts for the rich, which i believe is not even 10% of the population.
here's my opinion: i do not find these cards to be humorous.
btw, thanks arn :) as soon as i get around to it i will try to contribute to macrumors

janey
May 15, 2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
OK, without getting into the real subject here, what exactly was bad about the Baath most wanted cards? Did that offend someone? They were to help the troops -- who by the way, had a job to do over there -- identify the people they were looking for. I don't see the problem.
what's your definition of a problem?

if the US government was serious about catching these people and punishing them for the so-called crimes that they commited, they should do something about their all-Windows computer systems first-maybe get some better tents so the dust and heat wouldn't damage them or maybe replace the current servers with more reliable Linux servers. Oh and maybe if the troops weren't being royally screwed by the Bush administration...

BaghdadBob
May 15, 2003, 11:51 PM
Nowhere in your anti-administrational rants have I seen anything that would suggest to me that there is something "distasteful" about distributing the pictures and names of the most wanted Baath party officials to punish them for their...""crimes""...other than the fact that it was done by our administration.

Whatever. These things are so easy to approach from an emotional standpoint, and I come here for the Mac stuff, so I'm not gonna bother trying to reason...unsubscribing...shouldn't even have opened my mouth.

QCassidy352
May 16, 2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Nowhere in your anti-administrational rants have I seen anything that would suggest to me that there is something "distasteful" about distributing the pictures and names of the most wanted Baath party officials to punish them for their...""crimes""...other than the fact that it was done by our administration.

Whatever. These things are so easy to approach from an emotional standpoint, and I come here for the Mac stuff, so I'm not gonna bother trying to reason...unsubscribing...shouldn't even have opened my mouth.

What objectors to the Iraqi cards found distasteful was that they were *playing* cards. The use of cards suggested to many people that the war (and the lives of human beings) was being treated like a game, a joke.

A lot of people have believed since before the war began that those in charge see the whole situation as nothing but an amusement for their own purposes. Using cards that are intended for trivial games to represent "criminals" who are to be captured or killed reinforced that belief for many people.

You can choose to subscribe to that way of thinking or not, but does that answer your question about why people saw those original cards as distasteful?

BaghdadBob
May 16, 2003, 12:23 AM
That's funny, that deck of cards was in the hands of soldiers. I suppose there should have been a surgeon general note on the back asserting that the bullets being fired at them were hazardous to their health to counterbalance any amusement they found in it? God forbid those in the field find any cause for levity, it might offend some protestors who don't have any cards. And how would that make the protestors feel? Pretty sad I bet. I hope that would make Bush happy. Damn cowboy.

Anyway, I didn't apparently unsubscribe successfully last time. I really don't want to get dragged into a political argument here. I think it's highly rediculous, and no one can convince me otherwise. It's a deck of freakin' cards, people. I've seen inexplicable pardons get less attention.

janey
May 16, 2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Anyway, I didn't apparently unsubscribe successfully last time. I really don't want to get dragged into a political argument here. I think it's highly rediculous, and no one can convince me otherwise. It's a deck of freakin' cards, people. I've seen inexplicable pardons get less attention.
then let's stop arguing.
everyone has their own opinions about the ad, and nobody cares :rolleyes:

ibookin'
May 16, 2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by übergeek
then let's stop arguing.
everyone has their own opinions about the ad, and nobody cares :rolleyes:

Yeah I agree. If this has to continue, it should continue in the Poltical and War Discussions forum.

arn
May 16, 2003, 02:25 AM
Well,

I found the ad... and didn't particularly find it offensive. It's marketed as a humor product. "For a Laugh, Click here now"

As it's a sensitive subject, I've blocked it... though it was a relatively lucritive ad. :)

arn

shadowfax
May 16, 2003, 02:34 AM
the next thing you know, you guys will be lobbying against the sale of WWI/WWII allied propaganda, which depicts Germans as apes, huns, fierce asnimals... i won't even get into nazi propaganda. and people took that stuff comparatively seriously...

voicegy
May 16, 2003, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by arn
As it's a sensitive subject, I've blocked it... though it was a relatively lucritive ad. :) arn

A fair, reasonable and balanced decision.

Personally I didn't think the cards were funny (not because I was appalled, they just didn't hit me as, well, ha-ha inducers) and I was surprised and rather miffed that they would include Jimmy Carter and Walter Cronkite; ultimately, I would just vote with my pocketbook and simply not buy them.

Whereas arn, seeing it as a politically sensitive subject and how it irked a few users, took the consummate high road and, like the ambassador of goodwill and reason that he's proven himself to be time and time again, took a (minor?) financial hit rather than continue to indirectly upset his user base and blocked it.

A well tuned message board always points back to its owners and moderators. That's one of the reasons I dug out my checkbook and gave to MacRumors.com. Class act all the way.

(and, I got a cool mug!):)

Foxer
May 16, 2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by herr_neumann
I especially love the "you people" part of this reply.....

...and what would haven been the proper way to indictate to whom this reply was addressed? WTF?

"Can't argue the point so I'll just belittle the messenger. Ha-ha-ha, what a silly little person from the midwest."

shadowfax
May 16, 2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Foxer
...and what would haven been the proper way to indictate to whom this reply was addressed? WTF?

"Can't argue the point so I'll just belittle the messenger. Ha-ha-ha, what a silly little person from the midwest." maybe he wasn't so much belittling you as criticizing your rather sarcastically self-righteous tone. also, where did the midwest thing come from? you'd be just as silly if you were from New York, or Georgia for that matter :p

Foxer
May 16, 2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax
maybe he wasn't so much belittling you as criticizing your rather sarcastically self-righteous tone. also, where did the midwest thing come from? you'd be just as silly if you were from New York, or Georgia for that matter :p

Q.E.D.

Kid Red
May 16, 2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by vollspacken
I completly agree with you. Arn, please do something about this tasteless and hateful ad.

vSpacken

I just followed the link and saw the cards. Those are just bigoted anti-democratic/free speech, racist war loving crap. Not everyone believes in war, so that makes them a weasel? I agreed with this war to an extent, really dislike France now and yet can agree with some of the 'weasels'.

That's just so one sided (right) and should be de-listed. Maybe there's another ad from that site that is more 'centered'?