Exactly Who Is In Charge?

[skunk]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6274147.stm
Washington 'snubbed Iran offer'

Iran offered the US a package of concessions in 2003, but it was rejected, a senior former US official has told the BBC's Newsnight programme.

Tehran proposed ending support for Lebanese and Palestinian militant groups and helping to stabilise Iraq following the US-led invasion.

Offers, including making its nuclear programme more transparent, were conditional on the US ending hostility.

But Vice-President Dick Cheney's office rejected the plan, the official said.

The offers came in a letter, seen by Newsnight, which was unsigned but which the US state department apparently believed to have been approved by the highest authorities.

In return for its concessions, Tehran asked Washington to end its hostility, to end sanctions, and to disband the Iranian rebel group the Mujahedeen-e-Khalq and repatriate its members.

Former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had allowed the rebel group to base itself in Iraq, putting it under US power after the invasion.

One of the then Secretary of State Colin Powell's top aides told the BBC the state department was keen on the plan - but was over-ruled.

"We thought it was a very propitious moment to do that," Lawrence Wilkerson told Newsnight.

"But as soon as it got to the White House, and as soon as it got to the Vice-President's office, the old mantra of 'We don't talk to evil'... reasserted itself."

Observers say the Iranian offer as outlined nearly four years ago corresponds pretty closely to what Washington is demanding from Tehran now.

Since that time, Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah inflicted significant military losses on the major US ally in the region, Israel, in the 2006 conflict and is now claiming increased political power in Lebanon.

Palestinian militant group Hamas won power in parliamentary elections a year ago, opening a new chapter of conflict in Gaza and the West Bank.

The UN Security Council has imposed sanctions on Iran following its refusal to suspend its uranium enrichment programme.

Iran denies US accusations that its nuclear programme is designed to produce weapons.I suppose it didn't fit with his invasion plans. Three thousand dead Americans and countless dead Iraqis might disagree, of course.

[mactastic]

So have you heard the one about those folks, the Hatfields and the McCoys?

Sheesh, if this is legit, it's yet another view of the appalling way this administration has approached foreign policy. By rejecting this overture, as a direct result we now have a greatly exacerbated Palestinian / Israeli problem, as well as a greatly exacerbated Hezbollah problem.

The Bushies were betting that military might would solve all these problems. They've been wrong in every case, and yet now they want us to believe that incrementally additional military might will solve the problems in Iraq.

[Dont Hurt Me]

It boils down to Nukes, get rid of your program or we arent talking except with our bombs and this makes them even worker harder on their Nuke programs. Its a circle jerk with Bush playing lead.

[skunk]

What interests me is the implication that Bush is completely out of the loop.

[Queso]

What interests me is the implication that Bush is completely out of the loop.
Back in the beginning I suspected that to be the case, but I honestly thought it was Daddy pulling the strings, just like he did with Reagan from 1982-88. However, as time went on and the foreign policy became more and more of a mess I dismissed the thought. Bush Sr. is too smart for his actions to result in the current shambles.

Also didn't we hear a journalist say some time back that Dubya was covering domestic policy and leaving foreign policy to Cheney and (at that time) Rumsfeld?

[skunk]

Also didn't we hear a journalist say some time back that Dubya was covering domestic policy and leaving foreign policy to Cheney and (at that time) Rumsfeld?Umm, what domestic policy?

[Queso]

Umm, what domestic policy?
Oh you know. Stopping the curing of diseases, oppressing The Gheys.....:rolleyes:

[skunk]

Oh, that domestic policy. Right.

[xsedrinam]

Cheney ranks. Highest on my dislike list are those who are "lovers of war". One cannot be disappointed in individuals whom they've never trusted to begin with. While Bush and Condi have their agendas, I choose to reserve crafty, astute and cunning for describing Mr. Cheney.

[skunk]

I choose to reserve crafty, astute and cunning for describing Mr. Cheney.You are far too kind. There are no words nasty enough in my dictionary.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Cheney ranks. Highest on my dislike list are those who are "lovers of war". One cannot be disappointed in individuals whom they've never trusted to begin with. While Bush and Condi have their agendas, I choose to reserve crafty, astute and cunning for describing Mr. Cheney.
My guess is 90% of the policy out of the whitehouse comes from Cheney. Policy like lets go after that CIA agent whos saying the truth, stuff like that. After all he had to start a war in Iraq for his Company Haliburton who still send him checks every year. You got to love these former draft dodgers who made Iraq what it is today. Working hard for anyone but the American people.

[xsedrinam]

Okay. Un astuto, hi__ de p__a, descarado, sin verguenza, cabezón. (Sometimes, English isn't juicy enough).

[skunk]

Okay. Un astuto, hi__ de p__a, descarado, sin verguenza, cabezón. (Sometimes, English isn't juicy enough).Your dictionary is better than mine. :)

[Thomas Veil]

Every time you think the arrogance and incompetence of this administration have peaked, you find out they've taken it one step further.

Whether or not Cheney was the brain (pardon the expression!) behind this blunder, it is obviously one of the first magnitude.

[mactastic]

Don't give Cheney too much credit. I imagine Rove equally drove much of the policy decisions as well, particlarly as they related to GOP election strategy - which was, as near as I can tell, practically every policy decision.

Rove was in charge of getting the GOP into "permanant majority" status. Cheney was in charge of expanding presidential powers. Ironically, both will probably be seen as achieving the opposite when the inevitable backlash comes. Rove's already gotten his with the GOP's electoral humiliation in November, and Cheney probably sees the writing on the wall. Thus the purge of US Attorneys?

[zimv20]

Rove was in charge of getting the GOP into "permanant majority" status.
like, a thousand years of GOP leadership, or something like that?

we need to come up with a word that describes the revelations found in this story: real and unreal at the same time.

[Dont Hurt Me]

like, a thousand years of GOP leadership, or something like that?

we need to come up with a word that describes the revelations found in this story: real and unreal at the same time.Kingocracy?

[skunk]

Kingocracy?I think that's called Monarchy. :rolleyes:

[Thanatoast]

Who's in charge? Follow the money...

Oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, the Big Three, the military/industrial complex... All the entrenched interests with money to burn hooked into politicians who whore themselves out for $1000-a-plate dinners.

Federally financed campaigns might help, but the ineterests will fight this harder than anything else because it reduces their influence in Washington.

It's not about whether Cheney or Bush is in charge, it's about their motivation for making the decisions they do.

[Dont Hurt Me]

I think that's called Monarchy. :rolleyes:A Monarchy isnt elected.........:rolleyes: .....:D

[xsedrinam]

And what's going on the other side of the Pond (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/01/19/uk.blairaide.ap/index.html)? Should we now address MR posters as Sir skunk or Sir dynamicv? Who's in charge of selling honors, besides Ruth Turner? :p

[mactastic]

Kingocracy?

Welcome to the Kingocracy!
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/49000/49361PuXT_w.jpg

[zimv20]

Who's in charge of selling honors, besides Ruth Turner? :p
who's that? my great-great-grandmother was named Ruth Turner.

[skunk]

Should we now address MR posters as Sir skunk or Sir dynamicv? Optional, I think. We didn't pay the full whack.

[xsedrinam]

Don't give Cheney too much credit. I imagine Rove equally drove much of the policy decisions as well, particlarly as they related to GOP election strategy - which was, as near as I can tell, practically every policy decision.

Rove was in charge of getting the GOP into "permanant majority" status. Cheney was in charge of expanding presidential powers. Ironically, both will probably be seen as achieving the opposite when the inevitable backlash comes. Rove's already gotten his with the GOP's electoral humiliation in November, and Cheney probably sees the writing on the wall. Thus the purge of US Attorneys?
There are no doubt a bunch of players. I thought recent criticism of Cheney by Mondale (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-carter-conference,0,6659938.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines) was pertinent.

[solvs]

I think that's called Monarchy. :rolleyes:

Is that one a them British terms? :p

Can't find the link, but Biden said something the other day about Cheney being pretty much wrong about everything. Yeah, no kidding. Seriously, have these people been right about anything!?!

I keep asking, but no one ever answers me.

[mactastic]

Is that one a them British terms? :p

Can't find the link, but Biden said something the other day about Cheney being pretty much wrong about everything. Yeah, no kidding. Seriously, have these people been right about anything!?!

I keep asking, but no one ever answers me.
Well, Cheney was right that it would be easy for American troops to take Baghdad. But to be fair, everyone else was right about that too. Since then, nothing he's said about Iraq has been right. "Last throes" anyone?

[Silentwave]

Exactly Who Is In Charge


I'm pretty sure Alexander Haig is?! :rolleyes: :D

[xsedrinam]

Well, Cheney was right that it would be easy for American troops to take Baghdad. But to be fair, everyone else was right about that too. Since then, nothing he's said about Iraq has been right. "Last throes" anyone?
This comment (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/24/cheney/index.html) is just the latest of revelations of the smug arrogance behind it. "Talk of blunders in Irag is Hogwash". No doubt Cheney is basking in the skewed sense of triumphalism from last night's being surrounded by his "yes people" circle after the speech.

[Thanatoast]

disregard