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MacRumors
Jan 18, 2007, 04:03 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Chicago Times columnist Andy Ihnatko (http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/215441,CST-FIN-Andy18.article) reports on his 45 minutes of hands on time with the Apple iPhone following its announcement at Macworld. He offers some interesting observations based on his experience with the iPhone. Here is a brief summary:

- The touch-interface works flawlessly. "This is the simplest phone ever."
- "After 30 seconds, I was already typing faster with the iPhone than I ever have with any other phone."
- OS is based on Leopard.
- iPhone Widgets are not the same as Dashboard widgets.

The full article (http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/215441,CST-FIN-Andy18.article) offers more details, but overall Ihnatko was very impressed with the device.



lorien
Jan 18, 2007, 04:06 PM
Sounds more positive than any previous "review" :)

pianodude123
Jan 18, 2007, 04:15 PM
This is good reassurance because when stevie was typing on it during the keynote...he kept hitting wrong keys

MrMacMan
Jan 18, 2007, 04:16 PM
Wasn't it stated for a fact flat out that the iPhone was NOT going to use a version of Mac Os X as its operating system?

-- MrMacMan

stagi
Jan 18, 2007, 04:17 PM
it looks cool to me and can't wait to buy one when they are released. I paid $400 for my treo when it came out so this isn't too much more expensive.

feffer37
Jan 18, 2007, 04:19 PM
- "After 30 seconds, I was already typing faster with the iPhone than I ever have with any other phone."

This is what I was hoping to hear. I was a little nervous about the touchscreen keypad, but I'm glad to hear that it's reportidly easy to use :) Did anyone else notice during the keynote that when the keys were touched that they popped up in size, almost like a throwback to the old typewriters of old?

Only 5 months til june. Good BYE T-Moble!

Hopefully Apple will have a T-shirt giveaway for the iPhone for the first so-many people who show up/buy a iPhone at an Apple Store.

rdrr
Jan 18, 2007, 04:20 PM
I am more concerned with the Cingular phone/data plans they intend to offer. I want to buy the phone, but if I am locked in for two years into some ultra expensive plan, it will be a deal breaker. I am also hoping they offer this with family plans.

ViToMiNs
Jan 18, 2007, 04:20 PM
This is a refreshing review after reading so many others bashing every little thing that they was wrong with it!

alexf
Jan 18, 2007, 04:22 PM
Interesting... Sounds more positive than what I have read previously.

I look forward to playing around with this device myself, although the very high price tag (and Cingluar requirement) will probably keep me from buying one...

Rocketman
Jan 18, 2007, 04:26 PM
Balmer of Microsoft was interviewed on CNBC where he directly criticized the iPhone (ATN) keyboard. Now the hands-on user and reviewer for the Sun-Times directly refutes those claims of inadequacy:

"2. I think the iPhone's virtual keyboard is a huge improvement over the mechanical thumbpads found on the Treo and any other smart phones of its size.

The buttons are significantly larger, you don't have to hit them dead-center, you lightly tap them instead of punching them down, and the software is smart enough to know that you meant to type "Tuesday" instead of "Tudsday."

After 30 seconds, I was already typing faster with the iPhone than I ever have with any other phone. I suspect that true e-mail demons will need to adapt to the lack of tactile feedback, though."

Rocketman

crees!
Jan 18, 2007, 04:28 PM
I am more concerned with the Cingular phone/data plans they intend to offer. I want to buy the phone, but if I am locked in for two years into some ultra expensive plan, it will be a deal breaker. I am also hoping they offer this with family plans.

50% of equipment and 25% off the monthly bill. I just LOVE company discounts!

Squonk
Jan 18, 2007, 04:29 PM
Good press! Excellent. I'm concerned about the voice and data plan costs too...

MisterMe
Jan 18, 2007, 04:30 PM
Wasn't it stated for a fact flat out that the iPhone was NOT going to use a version of Mac Os X as its operating system?

...No, what makes you think that?

50548
Jan 18, 2007, 04:37 PM
So, anyone out there still willing to bash the iPhone, or say that it will be a complete flop? Thanks... :rolleyes:

gugy
Jan 18, 2007, 04:39 PM
I am more concerned with the Cingular phone/data plans they intend to offer. I want to buy the phone, but if I am locked in for two years into some ultra expensive plan, it will be a deal breaker. I am also hoping they offer this with family plans.

Yes, family plans and I hope Apple will have a bare bones iphone by June. I really not going to spend $500 buying a iPhone for my wife!:eek:

splank
Jan 18, 2007, 04:40 PM
I give this one a lot more credit than all the other reviews and rumors on the phone that are all the same thing: this is cool, but unless it works well (and they all assume not for some unknown reason) its not going to mean squat to the real world. Most of them never got to try the dumb thing. And dont think that people wont pay a premium for something they consider a toy thats only on one network. Sidekick anyone?

Hollis
Jan 18, 2007, 04:49 PM
"So long as you don't have a pocket full of broken glass, it'll be OK in there," I was told.

Well I guess the iPhone just isn't for me then.

:P

Hunabku
Jan 18, 2007, 05:01 PM
Well I guess the iPhone just isn't for me then.

:P

Very good! However, I just don't get this "putting in the pocket" thing in the first place. The iphone is not only as wide as a 80 gig ipod but it is longer to boot. The point is if your pockets are that baggy, you are probably a beatnix and have tons of broken glass in your pocket anyway - not to mention other questionable items. : D

slidingjon
Jan 18, 2007, 05:04 PM
So, anyone out there still willing to bash the iPhone, or say that it will be a complete flop? Thanks... :rolleyes:

there have to be at least 8 or 9 Zune Fanboys... somewhere.... I still haven't actually seen a Zune in the Wild. I have seen their displays and endcaps everywhere I go (full, I might add... not empty like iPod cabinets at retail places). I wonder who the Zune purchasees are anyways? How many Microsoft employees are there? Maybe it is some contractual thing - you aren't allowed to have an iPod on the premesis, but the Zune is ok since you can't mount it anyways.

Bitman
Jan 18, 2007, 05:07 PM
"Apple's technology comes from a company called Fingerworks, which had been making multi-touch sensitive pads."

"Multi-touch systems could be the real revolution, though, by letting us do what we're good at - working with both our hands. For example, to open a folder and then sort the photos or documents in it by date or name, you could do it the long way, using the mouse, pointing, clicking, pointing, clicking. But with a two-handed screen-driven system, you'd tap on the folder and sort the items directly by hand."


Full article: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/008200701180944.htm

sushi
Jan 18, 2007, 05:07 PM
I've always enjoyed reading Andy Ihnatko's columns. He is usually spot on IMHO. His review of the iPhone is interesting, and quite frankly, what I would expect from someone who knows what is going on. Very positive.

For those that don't know about him, here is a little extract:

Andy Ihnatko
Columnist (The Mac Observer), The Chicago Sun-Times & Macworld.

Chicago Sun-Times technology columnist Andy Ihnatko is also a longtime Macworld columnist and contributing editor. The latest title in his best-selling series of Mac books for Wiley Publishing is "iPod: Fully Loaded," which shows you how to cram your iPod to the gills with any sort of media or data you have lying around the house, from LP's, DVDs, videotapes and YouTube videos all the way to emails, websites, spreadsheets, and presentations.

Bitman
Jan 18, 2007, 05:10 PM
See this video on another touch screen technology.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=884017118027634444&q=multi-touch

dllavaneras
Jan 18, 2007, 05:11 PM
I'm glad the keyboard is easy to use. Too bad you can't write with your eyes closed like I can on my cell phone. But that in no way diminishes the awe factor of the iPhone for me

mikeinternet
Jan 18, 2007, 05:19 PM
ug june... so far. like the winter doesn't drag enough as it is.

Peace
Jan 18, 2007, 05:20 PM
See this video on another touch screen technology.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=884017118027634444&q=multi-touch

Jeff Han is one of the ones credited with the multi-touch technology behind the iPhone.

Maccus Aurelius
Jan 18, 2007, 05:32 PM
If not for my affinity for bare bones cell phones that I can knock about without worry, I'd get this in a second.

Hunabku
Jan 18, 2007, 05:46 PM
Jeff Han is one of the ones credited with the multi-touch technology behind the iPhone.

So then he is in the patents? - i assume that apple purchased all the rights from Jeff?

Well i saw this video a while back via a link provided here on macrumors. Truly impressive! I think we are now seeing the shape of apples killer new device for 2008. Not as big as the one Jeff is using for sure. Small at first but with multi-touch and the new class of "non-interface" apps to go with it we have something that new machines of many sizes can eventually be built around.

Did you see the interface along the top - it was the os x dock. Finally the tablet realized. Starting to actually feel like 2007.

Rychiar
Jan 18, 2007, 05:48 PM
if its OS resembles leopard than is there any chance leopard will have a slick glossy black interface? I am sooooo sick of light gray everything. Black would be so sleek and much easier on the eyes... and i don't mean vista black. I mean jet black with a shine to it:cool: I guess I can dream:rolleyes:

j_maddison
Jan 18, 2007, 05:53 PM
I'm glad the keyboard is easy to use. Too bad you can't write with your eyes closed like I can on my cell phone. But that in no way diminishes the awe factor of the iPhone for me

I love the iPhone, but I seriously doubt that a qwerty keyboard can ever be as quick as predictive texting on a keypad. A keypad with predictive text will always take less strokes than a qwerty one. I'm dog slow on a blackberry, or any keyboard that requires me to look at the keys. I can type between 80wpm when I'm touch typing though.

I just wish Apple would give a second option of being able to use some form of predictive text that didnt use a qwerty keyboard.

jay

Mgkwho
Jan 18, 2007, 05:55 PM
Does anyone think Apple can take existing MBs and MBPs and add a similar way of using touchpads in Leopard? They added two finger scrolling and right clicking to shipping versions AND as firmware upgrades (or maybe it was software?), so would there be a reason as to why this is not possible?

-=|Mgkwho

mojohanna
Jan 18, 2007, 05:56 PM
If the iPhone OS is truly based on leopard, i think that (along with the scaling of production) is the root cause behind the release being 6 months out. They can't release a phone that is running leopard and have people try to sync it up with tiger (well they could but then they would run into poetential problems). This means that leopard will be out certainly before the release of the phone and the two will talk with each other flawlessly.

puckhead193
Jan 18, 2007, 06:02 PM
i only have to complaints, its not 3g and as of now no ichat/AIM software, other then that, i think this is going to be birthday present!

Peace
Jan 18, 2007, 06:04 PM
i only have to complaints, its not 3g and as of now no ichat/AIM software, other then that, i think this is going to be birthday present!

I truly believe the iChat function will come out.Maybe rev.B.

Bubbasteve
Jan 18, 2007, 06:39 PM
I truly believe the iChat function will come out.Maybe rev.B.

I am holding out for that...I was really hoping that would be part of the package when Jobs said this is a breakthrough mobile internet communicator (or whatever he said)...I love the Safari feature, but I would like iChat mobile more

jhedges3
Jan 18, 2007, 06:43 PM
I truly believe the iChat function will come out.Maybe rev.B.

Yeah. It seems like included in the list of things it doesn’t have are iChat and 3g, as has been discussed at length on MR and elsewhere. And it seems obvious enough to predict that they’ll be there either by June or with early subsequent revisions. But, beyond a general notion that the things that people want will eventually be included, what makes one think that ‘rev.B’ will have it? What is the evidence for that?

Another question is why, given what we know now, won’t the June version have either of those, iChat or 3g?

From what I can remember, neither Pogue nor Ihnatko have commonted on the speed of Internet browsing, sending files, getting mail, etc. either by Wifi or by Edge. Any predictions on that? My guess would be that those things would have to be fast enough to make their functionality worth buying. In other words, why would they go to this length to include better mail and browsing capabilities if they knew that without 3g it will be slow enough to not make those things worth doing?

blipper
Jan 18, 2007, 06:52 PM
So, anyone out there still willing to bash the iPhone, or say that it will be a complete flop? Thanks... :rolleyes:

Not a complete flop, but not worth my spending my hard earned dollars on.

The Cingular(now ATT) 2 year contract is a dealbreaker. Today's Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/technology/bal-bz.pl.himowitz18jan18,0,2337704.column?coll=bal-technology-headlines) confirmed my intuition, tech columnist Mike Himowitz reporting "In Consumer Reports' most recent satisfaction survey of more than 50,000 cell phone customers nationwide, Cingular's service ranked last or next-to-last in every metropolitan area."

Ihnatko has never struck me as a particularly useful reporter about anything Apple related. I'm needing to get another phone soon. I think I'll stay with Verizon and whatever lesser phone they offer. (currently, I'm using a Treo 600).

kironin
Jan 18, 2007, 06:55 PM
I just wish Apple would give a second option of being able to use some form of predictive text that didnt use a qwerty keyboard.
jay


I am hoping that it's possible to set up alternatives.

I use the excellent Colemak keyboard layout now on my Macbook.
Why should I have to regress now on a virtual keyboard ?

http://colemak.com/

arn
Jan 18, 2007, 07:05 PM
From what I can remember, neither Pogue nor Ihnatko have commonted on the speed of Internet browsing, sending files, getting mail, etc. either by Wifi or by Edge. Any predictions on that?


iLounge said wifi browsing was fast.


Speed of Access: The iPhone was being demonstrated in Wi-fi mode as opposed to live cellular/EDGE mode, which is why the Google Maps and web content loaded so fast.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ipod/review/apple-iphone-hands-on/

jonharris200
Jan 18, 2007, 07:12 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
"After 30 seconds, I was already typing faster with the iPhone than I ever have with any other phone."
Ah, but what Mr Ihnatko fails to tell us is how fast he types on all those other phones. :p

mrrory
Jan 18, 2007, 07:17 PM
I am more concerned with the Cingular phone/data plans they intend to offer. I want to buy the phone, but if I am locked in for two years into some ultra expensive plan, it will be a deal breaker. I am also hoping they offer this with family plans.

Yes, yes, and yes!

Apple Corps
Jan 18, 2007, 07:24 PM
jhedges3 - Another question is why, given what we know now, won’t the June version have either of those, iChat or 3g?

The 3G decision has to do with lack of near term network coverage - something clearly out of Apple's hands.

j_maddison
Jan 18, 2007, 07:30 PM
I am hoping that it's possible to set up alternatives.

I use the excellent Colemak keyboard layout now on my Macbook.
Why should I have to regress now on a virtual keyboard ?

http://colemak.com/

I've downloaded colemark and will give it a try. My main problem with Dvorak was that it changed some of the other keys layout and slowed me down, I also read that once you were proficient at touch typing Dvorak had no real benefit in terms of speed, so it will be interesting to see if this offers a greater benefit.

thanks

Jason

Ah, but what Mr Ihnatko fails to tell us is how fast he types on all those other phones. :p

Exactly, give me a spotty teenager who is addicted to texting and we'll get a proper review then :D

zelmo
Jan 18, 2007, 07:33 PM
50% of equipment and 25% off the monthly bill. I just LOVE company discounts!

I read somewhere that Cingular/ATT had already agreed to Apple's edict of no discounts on iPhone for business customers or anyone else. Sorry.

Rocketman
Jan 18, 2007, 07:52 PM
i only have to complaints, its not 3g and as of now no ichat/AIM software, other then that, i think this is going to be birthday present!

Has anyone seen a Cingular or AT&T wireless roadmap for cellular upgrades? I believe public filings (Federal Register) preceed and disclose them.

Rocketman

EagerDragon
Jan 18, 2007, 07:52 PM
Send my thanks to the Man. He got all of 45 minutes when others only got 10.

This is good news and a great report. But I will wait until my crontract runs out or Apple drops the price by $100 to cover some of the cost of switching.

Love to have one, sorry as hell I will have to wait longer than 6 months.

harmless
Jan 18, 2007, 07:57 PM
I use the excellent Colemak keyboard layout now on my Macbook.
Why should I have to regress now on a virtual keyboard ?

Because there is no 3rd party software support for the iPhone.
So you will have to do with the software Apple puts on the device.

EagerDragon
Jan 18, 2007, 07:58 PM
Wasn't it stated for a fact flat out that the iPhone was NOT going to use a version of Mac Os X as its operating system?

-- MrMacMan
It uses OSX not the Mac specific code like the GUI and stuff. More like a strip down version that keeps what it needs and gets rid of anything that the hardware does not need.

Balmer of Microsoft was interviewed on CNBC where he directly criticized the iPhone (ATN) keyboard. Now the hands-on user and reviewer for the Sun-Times directly refutes those claims of inadequacy:

"2. I think the iPhone's virtual keyboard is a huge improvement over the mechanical thumbpads found on the Treo and any other smart phones of its size.

The buttons are significantly larger, you don't have to hit them dead-center, you lightly tap them instead of punching them down, and the software is smart enough to know that you meant to type "Tuesday" instead of "Tudsday."

After 30 seconds, I was already typing faster with the iPhone than I ever have with any other phone. I suspect that true e-mail demons will need to adapt to the lack of tactile feedback, though."

Rocketman
I would not even consider the possibility that anything Microsoft says about an Apple product is true. Apple is not perfect, but I rather listen to someone that is less intend on having Apple fail at anything.

jhedges3
Jan 18, 2007, 08:05 PM
jhedges3 - Another question is why, given what we know now, won’t the June version have either of those, iChat or 3g?

The 3G decision has to do with lack of near term network coverage - something clearly out of Apple's hands.

Right. The Wikipedia page for Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Mobile_Telecommunications_System) supports your claim:

Under a previous agreement with NTT DoCoMo, US provider AT&T Wireless (now Cingular) was required to build and market UMTS networks in four major United States cities by the end of 2004. At CTIA 2004, Cingular announced that their 3G network would be a 1900 MHz only implementation of UMTS and would launch by the end of that year as planned. However, since then they have chosen to deploy on 850 MHz and did not release any 1900 MHz-only devices. As of August 2006, Cingular has deployed UMTS/HSDPA networks in 17 U.S. markets covering 52 cities. Markets include New York (NY), Austin (TX), Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Portland (OR), Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (CA), Seattle, Tacoma and Washington, D.C.

Roll-out in the US has been limited by a lack of suitable spectrum until recently. The FCC auctioned spectrum in the 1750 and 2150 bands [1], and at least one winner, T-Mobile, has announced a roll-out of a national UMTS network on these frequencies starting from next year[2].

Previous US roll-outs have suffered due to lack of spectrum, requiring the sharing the 850MHz and 1900MHz bands allocated for cellular communication in the US with existing 1G and 2G networks. The UMTS requirement for 5 MHz frequency slots, much larger than that required for existing networks, can create difficulty for US operators as many are only licensed for 5MHz in each direction in certain areas, and as such cannot run both their existing system and UMTS in the areas affected.

It seems like the list of areas with 3G coverage is not as up to date as the one on the Cingular’s website (http://www.cingular.com/coverageviewer/popUp_3g.html). Which, for example, includes Los Angeles and others.

Warbrain
Jan 18, 2007, 08:07 PM
I read somewhere that Cingular/ATT had already agreed to Apple's edict of no discounts on iPhone for business customers or anyone else. Sorry.

Yep, no business discounts on the iPhone but probably on the plans.

Andy got the 45 minutes because he is the best Apple tech reported out there. I trust no one but him when it comes to details like this.

grafikat
Jan 18, 2007, 08:19 PM
As someone who's been braving sub freezing temperatures all winter, I was bummed to read I can't wear gloves and use the touch pad. I hate having to take my gloves off when it's so cold.

EagerDragon
Jan 18, 2007, 08:22 PM
As someone who's been braving sub freezing temperatures all winter, I was bummed to read I can't wear gloves and use the touch pad. I hate having to take my gloves off when it's so cold.

Puerto Rico is lovely this time of the year, and there is Cingular coverage. LOL

MrCrowbar
Jan 18, 2007, 08:30 PM
Remember the light sensing pixels in the display patent? Imagine: The display tracks your fingertips (multi-touch), your whole face for accurate speech recognition, scans documents by just holding them against the screen. Wouldn't it be awesome if the next Generation of iMacs and Displays had the Multi-Touch right in them? Let's all hope Leopard has it built in already.

jhedges3
Jan 18, 2007, 08:38 PM
Balmer of Microsoft was interviewed on CNBC where he directly criticized the iPhone (ATN) keyboard.

Wrong. Ballmer didn't criticize the ‘iPhone (ATN) keyboard’; he said it doesn’t have one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo&eurl=) And, without one, wouldn’t appeal to business customers because it will be ‘not a very good email machine.’

Is it only for the purposes of rhetoric, obfuscation, and for lack of better criticisms that he would make such a claim? How can a Stanford dropout, a billionaire, a CEO of such an important multinational computer technology corporation not see multi-touch user interfaces as better, more adaptive, etc.?

MacsomJRR
Jan 18, 2007, 08:45 PM
Great article. Not sure how much of a Mac "fan boy" the author is but he seems to give it a fair analysis although some of the commentary might seem a bit kiss a$$. It's sad to hear that developers won't get the chance to create some great apps for the phone but the prospect of making widgets sounds possible... I'm still really excited about getting it once it comes out:D :D :D

Rocketman
Jan 18, 2007, 08:57 PM
Wrong. Ballmer didn't criticize the ‘iPhone (ATN) keyboard’; he said it doesn’t have one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo&eurl=) And, without one, wouldn’t appeal to business customers because it will be ‘not a very good email machine.’

Is it only for the purposes of rhetoric, obfuscation, and for lack of better criticisms that he would make such a claim? How can a Stanford dropout, a billionaire, a CEO of such an important multinational computer technology corporation not see multi-touch user interfaces as better, more adaptive, etc.?

Thanks for the link!

Rocketman

Stella
Jan 18, 2007, 08:58 PM
Apple will add 3G *only* when its ready for the american market, not when the rest of the world is ready.

People should know by now:
Apple only make products for the american market. They don't really care about the rest of the world - they sell it, if it sells, thats a bonus but nothing more.

( example: osx is loaded with american dictionary only, osx ships with american orientated widgets, apple make no effort to localise these to make them useful for other parts of the world. )

ezekielrage_99
Jan 18, 2007, 09:14 PM
I think it's way too early to take ANY review on the iPhone seriously because until it's in the consumers grubby little hands and it's being used in a commercial sense the iPhone is nothing more than vaporware.

Until the product it offically released and you can buy it I wont be reading any more reviews, I took this tack with the Zune as well but sadly with the Zune the "pre reviews" were too close to the mark.

The jury is still out with the iPhone and I'm sick of reading poorly written articles from people who know very little about Apple philosophy and basing a product review from "what a friend has told them".

This review wasn't bad but still it's too early to make any judgement on the iPhone yet.

jhedges3
Jan 18, 2007, 10:28 PM
iLounge said wifi browsing was fast.

Thank you.

Thanks for the link!

Rocketman

No problem. Haha. I wouldn't have known about the interview if it weren't for your posts.

autumn
Jan 18, 2007, 10:48 PM
Apple will add 3G *only* when its ready for the american market, not when the rest of the world is ready.

People should know by now:
Apple only make products for the american market. They don't really care about the rest of the world - they sell it, if it sells, thats a bonus but nothing more.

( example: osx is loaded with american dictionary only, osx ships with american orientated widgets, apple make no effort to localise these to make them useful for other parts of the world. )

According to at&t: http://www.cingular.com/coverageviewer/popUp_3g.html

I wouldn't say that US is not ready for 3G. Most major cities are covered with 3G and remember 3G can always back compatible to EDGE.

Once you had 3G, it's so hard to go back to EDGE, esp. with a browser like Safari.

alfonsog
Jan 18, 2007, 11:12 PM
I use cingular and I have no problems at all with customer service or calls or anything... it seems there are only negative comments about cingular but it's great for me. I have a slvr with a few songs on it, and you can't use them as ring tones either as with the iPhone. I do use the AIM connection so I hope the iPhone will match that by June! My contract is up in March so I'll just go monthly until I figure out if I want the iPhone or wait for the iPhone Pro or whatever will be next, maybe an iPhone Nano :) Its still way to soon for this one, remember 6 years ago the iPod was Mac only and 5gb...

twoodcc
Jan 19, 2007, 12:51 AM
Sounds more positive than any previous "review" :)

yes it does....looking forward to this device....:cool:

siurpeeman
Jan 19, 2007, 01:07 AM
If the iPhone OS is truly based on leopard, i think that (along with the scaling of production) is the root cause behind the release being 6 months out. They can't release a phone that is running leopard and have people try to sync it up with tiger (well they could but then they would run into poetential problems). This means that leopard will be out certainly before the release of the phone and the two will talk with each other flawlessly.

you think people will be required to purchase leopard so that they can use the iphone?? i somehow find that difficult to believe.

ChrisSamsa
Jan 19, 2007, 01:21 AM
Exactly, give me a spotty teenager who is addicted to texting and we'll get a proper review then :D

Where do I sign up to do that review? Okay.. i'm 20, but I think I'd be able to give a proper review of how the keyboard reacts. I fly on my sidekick, and I fly on my mother's Cingular blackjack.. and I'm curious if i'll be able to keep pace if I pick this up.. or if it will be able to keep pace with me... I suppose we'll see.

GodBless
Jan 19, 2007, 01:23 AM
you think people will be required to purchase leopard so that they can use the iphone?? i somehow find that difficult to believe.I don't think you'll need Leopard but I do think that you will be able to use new Leopard features (such as iCal additions possibly) with the iPhone. If you own Tiger or before you will probably be more limited to your options of what you can do. Having Leopard will probably make things easier and smoother on the iPhone.

Snowy_River
Jan 19, 2007, 01:27 AM
If the iPhone OS is truly based on leopard, i think that (along with the scaling of production) is the root cause behind the release being 6 months out. They can't release a phone that is running leopard and have people try to sync it up with tiger (well they could but then they would run into poetential problems). This means that leopard will be out certainly before the release of the phone and the two will talk with each other flawlessly.

I can't believe that Apple would be so foolhardy as to limit their product's compatibility to only those people who are running Leopard. For example, my Tiger computer is networkable with computers all the way down to OS 8, maybe even System 6. (I'm not sure, as I've only ever tried as far back as OS 8. Never had the opportunity to try with Systems 6 or 7.)

No. Even if the iPhone is based on Leopard, compatibility with computers is not a reason that the iPhone isn't being released. Perhaps, though, it is to keep from releasing some core elements of Leopard before Leopard itself is released...? Now that I might be able to believe.

Hunabku
Jan 19, 2007, 02:02 AM
How can a Stanford dropout, a billionaire, a CEO of such an important multinational computer technology corporation not see multi-touch user interfaces as better, more adaptive, etc.?

I think you're giving Balmer way too much credit. Perhaps you haven't seen his monkey dancing psycho jubulation for Self-Inflicted States of Publicly Displayed Prepubescent Dilerium.

He is the quintesential microslob - although not that micro.

God be with you - and your gonna need her if you choose to watch the monkey dance!

50548
Jan 19, 2007, 02:47 AM
there have to be at least 8 or 9 Zune Fanboys... somewhere.... I still haven't actually seen a Zune in the Wild. I have seen their displays and endcaps everywhere I go (full, I might add... not empty like iPod cabinets at retail places). I wonder who the Zune purchasees are anyways? How many Microsoft employees are there? Maybe it is some contractual thing - you aren't allowed to have an iPod on the premesis, but the Zune is ok since you can't mount it anyways.

At least in this sense, Switzerland is a privilege...people buy mainly iPods and Zunes practically don't exist (or any other crappy player for that matter). At least I've never seen one, nor even a stand...good for me.

DonSqueak
Jan 19, 2007, 02:49 AM
Yeah, all the Windows users that were clearly mentioned as to be able to use the phone will also have to upgrade to Leopard. At least that's what the frog in my ear keeps whispering.

Sorry,

me.

PS: You really don't get any US-only devices in Switzerland?
PPS: Sorry again. Must be a troll, me.
PPPS: I'm really a nice person when I'm not drunk. Although now I'm not. Whatever.

GodBless
Jan 19, 2007, 03:35 AM
I can't believe that Apple would be so foolhardy as to limit their product's compatibility to only those people who are running Leopard. For example, my Tiger computer is networkable with computers all the way down to OS 8, maybe even System 6. (I'm not sure, as I've only ever tried as far back as OS 8. Never had the opportunity to try with Systems 6 or 7.)

No. Even if the iPhone is based on Leopard, compatibility with computers is not a reason that the iPhone isn't being released.Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying so I will clarify what I intended to communicate in my previous post. Perhaps Apple adds multiple features to iCal that can sync with the iPhone. This much could be true so let's assume that if it was true that there would likely be an info box for each event in the Calendar application that is extended from what Tiger has to offer. This could be a reason (probably not the only reason) why Apple is delaying the release of the phone for the next few months. As an important side note--the latest I've heard from news reports is that the iPhone's Calendar application isn't yet finalized. This gives us a hint that Leopard's iCal might receive quite a large update since it was last given a major update in Tiger :) and it also gives my speculation about one of the reasons that the iPhone is being delayed more credibility.

Perhaps, though, it is to keep from releasing some core elements of Leopard before Leopard itself is released...? Now that I might be able to believe.How would those Leopard features sync with Tiger since Tiger doesn't have Leopard's features? Perhaps the Leopard features won't sync--but if that's the case then why is it even important that Apple keeps iPhone's Leopard features secret? It's not like we can guess which features that the iPhone has (and that Tiger doesn't have) will make it to Leopard. This much is true even if we see some of the un-syncable features of Leopard on the iPhone before we know the "Top Secret" features that Steve Jobs promised will be in Leopard.

needthephone
Jan 19, 2007, 05:59 AM
Iv'e read three revews and they have all been good, even better than I was expecting eg
T3, The Times, bbc

http://www.t3.co.uk
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20409-2542174.html

I was a bit of a cynic about apple before, I couldn't understand all your devotion to the cause but after this awesome new product I am a total believer in all things apple. I will shortly be ordering an apple TV when I ge my new imac (really, I am for real) to stream to it.

I don't care if its 2.5g, with wifi it will do all I need. There is no way I will pay my mobile operator the huge internet download fees

lorien
Jan 19, 2007, 06:28 AM
Slightly off topic I know, but was kinda shocked at the newest iPhone wannabe from LG.... was LG leaked details of the iPhone a long time ago???:confused:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/11/iphone-and-lg-ke850-separated-at-birth/

wordmunger
Jan 19, 2007, 07:52 AM
I just don't get this "putting in the pocket" thing in the first place. The iphone is not only as wide as a 80 gig ipod but it is longer to boot.

It is only .4 inches longer, and it is thinner and lighter than the 80 gig iPod, plus it has rounded edges. I'd say it's at least as pocketable as an iPod, if not more so. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the contract. And I'd carry it in my pocket.

aristobrat
Jan 19, 2007, 08:28 AM
The 3G decision has to do with lack of near term network coverage - something clearly out of Apple's hands.
I thought the 3G decision had to do with there not being a decent slim 3G chipset that Apple could use.

Google "blackjack battery life".

AFAIK, the BlackJack is the only thin 3G device currently in the US, and people are doing all sorts of hacks to make it *NOT* use 3G so that they can make the battery last half the day.

Evangelion
Jan 19, 2007, 08:36 AM
I love the iPhone, but I seriously doubt that a qwerty keyboard can ever be as quick as predictive texting on a keypad. A keypad with predictive text will always take less strokes than a qwerty one.

QWERTY takes exactly one stroke per letter, whereas typing with numeric keypad can take several strokes per letter. So how exactly can you say that keypad will "always" have less strokes than a full keyboard does? Also, you need to pause for a while between letters, if the two consequative letters are behind same hardware-button, and that slows you down. And who says that you can't have predictive texting with QWERTY? I have predictive texting on my Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, and it has onscreen QWERTY-keyboard.

Data
Jan 19, 2007, 09:38 AM
I was just thinking, couldn't they be tinking about a Keyboard foir the desktop maschienes and maybe even laptops, that don't have actuall keys anymore but the same touch screens as the iphone, that wopuld be great if you ask me, you could chance the layout for every button and no more dust or liquids getting in to your key/mother board , the only thing i'm not sure on is how that would make the price of a keyboard look :D

Stella
Jan 19, 2007, 09:39 AM
Slightly off topic I know, but was kinda shocked at the newest iPhone wannabe from LG.... was LG leaked details of the iPhone a long time ago???:confused:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/11/iphone-and-lg-ke850-separated-at-birth/


BUT the LG was announced out BEFORE the iPhone.. so how can it be a cheap knockoff?!!

j_maddison
Jan 19, 2007, 09:45 AM
QWERTY takes exactly one stroke per letter, whereas typing with numeric keypad can take several strokes per letter. So how exactly can you say that keypad will "always" have less strokes than a full keyboard does? Also, you need to pause for a while between letters, if the two consequative letters are behind same hardware-button, and that slows you down. And who says that you can't have predictive texting with QWERTY? I have predictive texting on my Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, and it has onscreen QWERTY-keyboard.

I realised about ten minutes after I posted that it takes the exact same amount of keystrokes, it was late at night and my brain wasnt functioning properly. So yes you're absoultely right and I stand corrected

The point i was trying to make was that text input using predictive text is quicker than using a qwerty keypad, well for me at least it is. The way you are describing texting on a phone sounds like you're not using predictive text. The reason text input is quicker is because your hands have to move a smaller distance and you can tap the keys much quicker because there are less of them. I'm not sure if i'm describing this properly, but what I'm trying to say is that I've not met anyone who is quicker on a keypad (palm or blackberry).

Jay

Data
Jan 19, 2007, 09:46 AM
BUT the LG was announced out BEFORE the iPhone.. so how can it be a cheap knockoff?!!

No other phone will be running OSX , that is what will make the real difference in the long run,no matter how much alike they will look, IMHO .

WinterMute
Jan 19, 2007, 10:21 AM
Ahem....

Religious Forum folks?

Remember that one?

I thank you.

Uragon
Jan 19, 2007, 10:25 AM
Yes, family plans and I hope Apple will have a bare bones iphone by June. I really not going to spend $500 buying a iPhone for my wife!:eek:

maybe, ask your wife to buy you one instead.;)

TheBobcat
Jan 19, 2007, 10:30 AM
I was just thinking, couldn't they be tinking about a Keyboard foir the desktop maschienes and maybe even laptops, that don't have actuall keys anymore but the same touch screens as the iphone, that wopuld be great if you ask me, you could chance the layout for every button and no more dust or liquids getting in to your key/mother board , the only thing i'm not sure on is how that would make the price of a keyboard look :D

Uh, that might work in Star Trek but I think most people like feeling a physical response when they type. While touch buttons might be good for quick and short typing, I sure wouldn't want to write anything of length on anything like that.

Cepe Indicum
Jan 19, 2007, 10:58 AM
I realised about ten minutes after I posted that it takes the exact same amount of keystrokes, it was late at night and my brain wasnt functioning properly. So yes you're absoultely right and I stand corrected

The point i was trying to make was that text input using predictive text is quicker than using a qwerty keypad, well for me at least it is. The way you are describing texting on a phone sounds like you're not using predictive text. The reason text input is quicker is because your hands have to move a smaller distance and you can tap the keys much quicker because there are less of them. I'm not sure if i'm describing this properly, but what I'm trying to say is that I've not met anyone who is quicker on a keypad (palm or blackberry).

Jay

Actually, I saw where you were coming from with your first post. I use predictive text on my Razr and it is quicker than a QWERTY in IMO. Taking an example:

Take the word INTERRUPTING... 12 letters, and therefore 12 keystrokes on a QWERTY keypad. But on my Razr, I type INTERRU (or 4683778) then the 'up' button on the directional pad, and I'm ready for my next word... just 8 key strokes.

Now I know this wouldn't work all the time, with every word, but I'm just thinking of how slow I am on a normal, everyday QWERTY keypad when I only use one hand to type. With one hand, I'm much faster using predictive text.

That said, I guess you'd just get used to it. :)

Data
Jan 19, 2007, 10:59 AM
Uh, that might work in Star Trek but I think most people like feeling a physical response when they type. While touch buttons might be good for quick and short typing, I sure wouldn't want to write anything of length on anything like that.

I'll have to admit that i'm a trekkie but since no such keyboard is around i think i would wanna try one first before dismissing it, i would think that you would just have t get used to the feeling and lack of sound from the keyboard.
I would like a keyboard that would not get al dirty between the buttons very much, and even more the fact that the layout could chance with every apllication you select on the screen, butit could be my startrek minded look on things, or even minority report aldo that goes even alot further and is not realalistic within the next couple of years.

Cepe Indicum
Jan 19, 2007, 11:05 AM
I'll have to admit that i'm a trekkie but since no such keyboard is around i think i would wanna try one first before dismissing it, i would think that you would just have t get used to the feeling and lack of sound from the keyboard.
I would like a keyboard that would not get al dirty between the buttons very much, and even more the fact that the layout could chance with every apllication you select on the screen, butit could be my startrek minded look on things, or even minority report aldo that goes even alot further and is not realalistic within the next couple of years.

You might like this...

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

Would love to see Apple implement this technology into their machines. Doesn't get around your issue of spilt liquids etc., but...

Evangelion
Jan 19, 2007, 11:12 AM
Take the word INTERRUPTING... 12 letters, and therefore 12 keystrokes on a QWERTY keypad. But on my Razr, I type INTERRU (or 4683778) then the 'up' button on the directional pad, and I'm ready for my next word... just 8 key strokes.

Again: you can have predicitive text-input AND qwerty-keyboard.

Data
Jan 19, 2007, 11:13 AM
You might like this...

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

Would love to see Apple implement this technology into their machines. Doesn't get around your issue of spilt liquids etc., but...


Yes , i know that keyboard , that's what gave me the idea in the first place, and i would think with a touch screen it would even be more affordable to produce and have even more possibillity's then just keyboard layouts.

dendar
Jan 19, 2007, 11:16 AM
would be even cooler if the voicemail came as text like the spinvox who got mentioned on techcrunch this week....thats looks real useful:)

bmoseley07
Jan 19, 2007, 11:17 AM
If the iPhone OS is truly based on leopard, i think that (along with the scaling of production) is the root cause behind the release being 6 months out. They can't release a phone that is running leopard and have people try to sync it up with tiger (well they could but then they would run into poetential problems). This means that leopard will be out certainly before the release of the phone and the two will talk with each other flawlessly.

How come people aren't getting the memo? There is only one cause for 6 month wait and that is Apple wanted to introduce it before the FCC did. No other reasons people. If they could, I'm pretty sure they would wanted to released it now while the hype is at his peak.

Also, you make no sense at all, mojohanna. For one, the iPhone is going to be able to sync with not just Mac OS X but also with MS's operating systems. Plus they showed him syncing it with Tiger. People just don't think these days do they.

I think it should be a prerequisite that you have to watch the keynote before you make ANY comments about it anywhere. Too many answers or hypothesis' have already been answered by the man himself. Go watch the keynote and then come back so you can join the (somewhat) intelligent conversation.

Thank you.

Cepe Indicum
Jan 19, 2007, 11:21 AM
Again: you can have predicitive text-input AND qwerty-keyboard.

Point taken... but I was really looking at your original post on this...

QWERTY takes exactly one stroke per letter, whereas typing with numeric keypad can take several strokes per letter. So how exactly can you say that keypad will "always" have less strokes than a full keyboard does? Also, you need to pause for a while between letters, if the two consequative letters are behind same hardware-button, and that slows you down. And who says that you can't have predictive texting with QWERTY? I have predictive texting on my Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, and it has onscreen QWERTY-keyboard.

With predictive text, it doesn't take 'several strokes per letter', and you don't have to 'pause for a while between letters'. That's when you use the text input without predictive text.

But I do take your point about having predictive text with a QWERTY pad.

bommai
Jan 19, 2007, 11:31 AM
you think people will be required to purchase leopard so that they can use the iphone?? i somehow find that difficult to believe.


I completely agree, especially since iPhone is compatible with both Windows 2000/XP/Vista and Mac OS X. The synching is done through iTunes, no system wide support is needed. iPhone will work with Tiger and Leopard. May be even Panther. The reason iPhone is not yet ready is probably because of software work and FCC clearance. Remember, iPhone OS is based on Leopard. Leopard is not done yet.

suneohair
Jan 19, 2007, 01:13 PM
Check this out. Future of computing right here: http://ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_han&flashEnabled=1

rmessnerjr
Jan 19, 2007, 01:53 PM
Check this out. Future of computing right here: http://ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_han&flashEnabled=1

Can we presume this pre-dates the development of the two-finger pinch/spread seen on the iPhone? Anyone know the date on that fantastic demo above? Mr. Han made the statement that others have been working on this type of interface. Parallel development by Apple? Did they hire someone that was already working on it?

I'd like to see it on all the Apple displays. As a musician, I'd like to be able to, in the absence of a connected midi keyboard, be able to tap on a virtual keyboard or virtual stringed instrument. Heck, I can even envision a method to play a reed or brass instrument. A virtual theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin), anyone?

MagnusDredd
Jan 19, 2007, 02:04 PM
So, anyone out there still willing to bash the iPhone, or say that it will be a complete flop? Thanks... :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's going to be a complete flop...

but...

These are my requirements for a all cell phones:
My requirements are met.
My requirements might be met.
My requirements are not met.
It needs to be a phone; Good Antenna (My Sony T610 sucks, Wife's Nokia 6600 rocks), Good Battery life (standby >2 days), Speaker Phone, Has a ringtone that sounds like a phone ringing (T610 rocks), can sync with my Mac (all contact info), GSM, Can be dropped without breaking (Nokia 6600 apparently can be thrown across the room :rolleyes: ), Display's callers picture, accepts voice command, can send contact info to another phone via bluetooth.

These are deciding factors in whether I buy an expensive cell phone:
GPS Mapping, VERY important (built-in GPS or Bluetooth GPS adapter), Displays files (pdfs at the very least), Displays pictures, Camera does not completely suck (I don't care much about this), can play games (neat, but not important), Music/Video (this is a nice feature, but I'd want a mobile version of VLC), there may be other applications I want to use over time.
---
Bottom line:
The iPhone is an awesome product with a fatal (in my case) flaw. This is due to the lack of 3rd party support. I'm betting that Apple is not going to give me GPS mapping. Without it, I cannot justify it's price.

I have no problems whatsoever with Apple ensuring the integrity and clarity of the user interface. I have no problems with them making the authors of Tom Tom, Navicore, or Route 66 jump through many hoops to make sure that the software integrates perfectly. But simply ruling out the third parties seriously hurts the value proposition of the phone.
----------

Oops. Apparently I missed the word "distribute". So no retail boxed 3rd party software. I'm ok with this. GPS mapping software does remain a make or break it proposition for justifying the costs.

I still think that 3rd party support can make or break a Smart Phone's acceptance. While it's not useful to me, having a 3rd party make this thing integrate with Exchange would be a "good thing".

Take the word INTERRUPTING... 12 letters, and therefore 12 keystrokes on a QWERTY keypad. But on my Razr, I type INTERRU (or 4683778) then the 'up' button on the directional pad, and I'm ready for my next word... just 8 key strokes.

The bash shell in Unix has had tab completion for years. Auto-completion is not dependent on input method

suneohair
Jan 19, 2007, 02:12 PM
Can we presume this pre-dates the development of the two-finger pinch/spread seen on the iPhone? Anyone know the date on that fantastic demo above? Mr. Han made the statement that others have been working on this type of interface. Parallel development by Apple? Did they hire someone that was already working on it?

I'd like to see it on all the Apple displays. As a musician, I'd like to be able to, in the absence of a connected midi keyboard, be able to tap on a virtual keyboard or virtual stringed instrument. Heck, I can even envision a method to play a reed or brass instrument. A virtual theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin), anyone?

The date is in the description on that page, Feb 2006. Apple bought a companty called FingerWorks quite some time ago who had the patent on those gestures. I Han has anything that predates that stuff.

http://www.fingerworks.com/index.html

Here are some patents that may relate to the iPhone:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=13&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%28%28apple+AND+computer%29.AS.+AND+touch.AB.%29&OS=an/(apple+and+computer)+and+abst/touch&RS=(AN/(apple+AND+computer)+AND+ABST/touch

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=an%2F%28apple+and+computer%29+and%0D%0Aabst%2Ftouch&d=PG01

Very cool stuff though and I hope we start seeing it in the next few years.

I'm not saying it's going to be a complete flop...

but...

These are my requirements for a all cell phones:
My requirements are met.
My requirements might be met.
My requirements are not met.
It needs to be a phone; Good Antenna (My Sony T610 sucks, Wife's Nokia 6600 rocks), Good Battery life (standby >2 days), Speaker Phone, Has a ringtone that sounds like a phone ringing (T610 rocks), can sync with my Mac (all contact info), GSM, Can be dropped without breaking (Nokia 6600 apparently can be thrown across the room :rolleyes: ), Display's callers picture, accepts voice command, can send contact info to another phone via bluetooth.

These are deciding factors in whether I buy an expensive cell phone:
GPS Mapping, VERY important (built-in GPS or Bluetooth GPS adapter), Displays files (pdfs at the very least), Displays pictures, Camera does not completely suck (I don't care much about this), can play games (neat, but not important), Music/Video (this is a nice feature, but I'd want a mobile version of VLC), there may be other applications I want to use over time.
---
Bottom line:
The iPhone is an awesome product with a fatal (in my case) flaw. This is due to the lack of 3rd party support. I'm betting that Apple is not going to give me GPS mapping. Without it, I cannot justify it's price.

I have no problems whatsoever with Apple ensuring the integrity and clarity of the user interface. I have no problems with them making the authors of Tom Tom, Navicore, or Route 66 jump through many hoops to make sure that the software integrates perfectly. But simply ruling out the third parties seriously hurts the value proposition of the phone.

Can you people read? Try this:

3rd PARTIES HAVE NOT BEEN RULED OUT!

Read that a few times. Jobs said it himself, and it was mentioned in article referenced here.

It will just not be open to everyone to create applications. Apple will just have control over the applications. That is all. As long as developers are making applications that meet Apples standard, there shouldnt be much of a problem with their apps getting through.

Heck, they could even come up with a widget certification program. Mayvbe built into dashcode that checks the coding and allows you to put your own widgets on the phone.

Obviously this would take time to setup. Heck the phone isn't even done yet. I am sure they want to focus on finishing the phone before they start letting people make apps for it.

Since nobody from Apple has said, "there will be no apps from 3rd parties," it is safe to assume we can expect it at this point. And as soon as the phone is actually done we will be hearing more about this.

iPhone in June, I think WWDC will be in June as well. Coincidence...? :cool:

MagnusDredd
Jan 19, 2007, 02:35 PM
Apple will add 3G *only* when its ready for the american market, not when the rest of the world is ready.

People should know by now:
Apple only make products for the american market. They don't really care about the rest of the world - they sell it, if it sells, thats a bonus but nothing more.

( example: osx is loaded with american dictionary only, osx ships with american orientated widgets, apple make no effort to localise these to make them useful for other parts of the world. )

Luckily for you ignorance isn't seriously painful.

Apple has not added 3G, because it's basically unavailable in the US at large, which is where they are first releasing the iPhone. The European/Asian/Other versions will most definitely be 3G. The North American countries trail nearly every other industrialized nation for the development of next generation cellular technology. So probably in the interest of starting simple, and catering to the existing market, they want to sort out GSM/EDGE first. So your first point is a Troll or ignorant.

Second, OSX is probably the most easily multilingual OS I have ever laid hands on. The "standard" OSX install supports more than a dozen languages, and has the ability to have different accounts set to use different languages. This means that a student at a Phoenix high school could use the computer in English, and the parents could use the computer in Spanish (Many of the children born of Mexican parentage can speak but not read Spanish, while their parents can only speak/read Spanish). With Windows, you have a Spanish Edition and an English Edition. Guess which one is installed in the public libraries? If it were OSX, one install could serve people of multiple tongues. So your first point is a Troll or ignorant.

Your only valid point is that the dictionary is only localized in English. Regarding Widgets, I have no idea what you're talking about. Most of the western world uses a left to right, up to down orientation for writing. OSX reflects this. Chinese, which is not oriented this way is still supported on every default install of OSX.

Futhermore, English is spoken all over the world. The use of "American" is incorrect. American is not a language, it's an adjective regarding a geographical origin. American English would be correct.

Can you people read? Try this:

3rd PARTIES HAVE NOT BEEN RULED OUT!

Read that a few times. Jobs said it himself, and it was mentioned in article referenced here.

I asked point-blank if third parties would be able to write and distribute iPhone apps and was told, point-blank, no.

Apparently this is the operative word that I missed...

My bad.

Maccus Aurelius
Jan 19, 2007, 03:04 PM
I wonder if the hardcore detractors are reading these forums. :rolleyes: Although I have my doubts, I have faith that Apple will provide a very wicked device. With rumor floating about that the price will be discounted with the service plan, it may do even better than the optimists project. People keep badmouthing the tie-in with Cingular, but if this was Verizon sewers would belch all the curses of every language while the earth implodes, cuz Verizon sucks.

Anyway, people have paid pretty big premiums for phones that do even less than the iPhone. My sister's sidekick III is proof of this.

suneohair
Jan 19, 2007, 03:07 PM
I asked point-blank if third parties would be able to write and distribute iPhone apps and was told, point-blank, no.

Apparently this is the operative word that I missed...

My bad.

It all good. I am sorry if I was harsh. I am just getting sick of people not reading what is known and going off on a tangent about how there are no 3rd party apps.

There will be, but as you pointed out. You won't be able to make one and slap on your webpage for download.

Which for me is fine. That means we get apps that are written better. I have installed so many apps on my treo that have made it reset. Lost all my stuff. This is not phone and what Apple wants to avoid.

MagnusDredd
Jan 19, 2007, 03:29 PM
It all good. I am sorry if I was harsh. I am just getting sick of people not reading what is known and going off on a tangent about how there are no 3rd party apps.

It's cool, I had it coming ;)

There will be, but as you pointed out. You won't be able to make one and slap on your webpage for download.

Which for me is fine. That means we get apps that are written better. I have installed so many apps on my treo that have made it reset. Lost all my stuff. This is not phone and what Apple wants to avoid.

I agree completely, I just hope that Apple simply institutes a rigorous usability and Quality Control system to make sure that everything works properly.

What I'm afraid of, is that they'll stifle the 3rd party market.

OCOTILLO
Jan 19, 2007, 04:00 PM
The worst feature of the iPhone, IMO, is the internal battery. If the battery craps out, you are out of luck. A spare replaceable battery is a must feature of all other cell phones, particularly when recharging isn't an option.

suneohair
Jan 19, 2007, 04:38 PM
The worst feature of the iPhone, IMO, is the internal battery. If the battery craps out, you are out of luck. A spare replaceable battery is a must feature of all other cell phones, particularly when recharging isn't an option.

I am going to have to disagree here.

I have a Treo. I don't carry around an extra battery. Even though I can. Most people I know don't carry extra cellphone batteries around.

If my phone dies, it dies. Thats just the way it is. However. The charging options are pretty good with the iPhone considering it is an iPod connecter. I imagine it would work with the charging brick for the iPod. Any car chargers and obviously a USB port.

The opinion on this will vary by individual of course. I wouldnt say it is a bad feature. Consider a similar device, the Treo 680 which has a removable battery (user removable).

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7784/iphonevs680gi2.jpg

Lack of removable in this case reduces greatly.

It is pretty close to cutting it in half.

.8 for the 680
.46 for the iPhone

~43% reduction.

Also note the 680 has:
1. No Wifi
2. No 4 or 8GB of flash
3. No bluetooth 2.0
4. .3 MP camera, iPhone has a 2.0MP
5. No 3.5in display
6. 4hr battery life, iPhone 5hr
7. .7 ounces heavier, 680 5.5 ounces, iPhone 4.8 ounces.

crazytom
Jan 19, 2007, 05:47 PM
but, is it me, or does this phone not work? I mean, everything has been reviewed about it except its ability AS A PHONE...or is that aspect of the iPhone not important enough to consider?

I'd like to know things like: can it be dropped? how's the speaker/microphone quality? how good is the antenna? how does it perform in windy/noisy environments?

Stella
Jan 19, 2007, 05:51 PM
No other phone will be running OSX , that is what will make the real difference in the long run,no matter how much alike they will look, IMHO .

Pfff...

The O/S doesn't matter, its the flexibility and functionality that is the key.

Again, tell me how the LG is a knock off since it was *announced* before the iPhone? Time travel?

Give me micrsoft phone if it offers me more functionality and breathe. :-O

But... I'll stick with my flexible Symbian phone with plenty of 3rd party software. I'm hoping Nokia or any other Symbian Licensee will release a similar sort of phone since it won't be crippled by Apple's over zealous control.

Luckily for you ignorance isn't seriously painful.



ROTFL. your funny.

suneohair
Jan 19, 2007, 06:10 PM
but, is it me, or does this phone not work? I mean, everything has been reviewed about it except its ability AS A PHONE...or is that aspect of the iPhone not important enough to consider?

I'd like to know things like: can it be dropped? how's the speaker/microphone quality? how good is the antenna? how does it perform in windy/noisy environments?

Well no one has had extended use of the phone. I am sure people were limited iin talking considering it isn't FCC approved yet.

Pogue used the phone portion. Said it was good.

“How was call quality? Was this not available for testing?” –Yes, it was working fine. I called home with it. Sounded loud and clear, although this means nothing at this point. Apple doesn’t even have FCC approval yet, and have many months of fine-tuning and fiddling left to do. Also, of course, your call quality will depend on how far you are from the cell tower.

He also said the speakerphone was good as well.

The other things we don't really know yet. It is a quad-band phone so I am guessing the antenna will be good.

Windy/noisy? Won't know til someone can test it outside. At this point those who have used it have done so indoors and under the watch of Apple.

This article and others like it are no more than a hands on preview. Once it hits, the real reviews will come.

Hunabku
Jan 19, 2007, 08:11 PM
The worst feature of the iPhone, IMO, is the internal battery. If the battery craps out, you are out of luck. A spare replaceable battery is a must feature of all other cell phones, particularly when recharging isn't an option.

Yeh that has been mentioned as a real concern in the threads. For me it wouldn't be that big of a deal if I could very solidly connect a spare battery to the ipod port. Problem is i haven't seen a mobile peripheral solidly attatched to that port. My belkin tunetalk is a loose as a goose connected to an 80 gig ipod.

Uragon
Jan 20, 2007, 01:58 AM
The worst feature of the iPhone, IMO, is the internal battery. If the battery craps out, you are out of luck. A spare replaceable battery is a must feature of all other cell phones, particularly when recharging isn't an option.

I agree with you here, replaceable battery that you can carry anytime and anywhere as a spare.

Now, if I buy an iPod with a phone functions non-replaceable is just fine. But If am buying it as a mobile phone with an iPod functions, spare battery is a must..

Squozen
Jan 20, 2007, 06:43 PM
Your only valid point is that the dictionary is only localized in English. Regarding Widgets, I have no idea what you're talking about. Most of the western world uses a left to right, up to down orientation for writing. OSX reflects this. Chinese, which is not oriented this way is still supported on every default install of OSX.

He/she means that OS X Widgets are aimed towards the American market, not the English language. Examples:

* the yellow pages and white pages widgets are only available for companies and residents in America.
* the flight tracker only works for American flights.
* the stock tracker only lists American companies.

All of this information is easily available online in other countries, yet Apple does not provide widgets to access it. It's left up to third parties (who often don't provide the same level of polish or charge for their widget).

applefanEUPB
Jan 20, 2007, 07:21 PM
Some european thoughts about the iPhone.

1. No 3G - means useless especially for a PB user.
2. without 3G and iChat like video conferrencing you can not talk about REINVENTING - sorry.
3. For the last 10 years a was whith one cellular provider but I do not wont to be forced to do so.

All in all. Very beautiful UI but Bad Carma.

I need an open device like all the phones frome the competitors.

Good luck. Steve.
Till now. I will stay with Nokia.

Romanesq
Jan 20, 2007, 09:31 PM
I am going to have to disagree here.

I have a Treo. I don't carry around an extra battery. Even though I can. Most people I know don't carry extra cellphone batteries around.

If my phone dies, it dies. Thats just the way it is. However. The charging options are pretty good with the iPhone considering it is an iPod connecter. I imagine it would work with the charging brick for the iPod. Any car chargers and obviously a USB port.

The opinion on this will vary by individual of course. I wouldnt say it is a bad feature. Consider a similar device, the Treo 680 which has a removable battery (user removable).

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7784/iphonevs680gi2.jpg

Lack of removable in this case reduces greatly.

It is pretty close to cutting it in half.

.8 for the 680
.46 for the iPhone

~43% reduction.

Also note the 680 has:
1. No Wifi
2. No 4 or 8GB of flash
3. No bluetooth 2.0
4. .3 MP camera, iPhone has a 2.0MP
5. No 3.5in display
6. 4hr battery life, iPhone 5hr
7. .7 ounces heavier, 680 5.5 ounces, iPhone 4.8 ounces.

Been told again by an industry person who has a working iphone that it doe in fact have a replaceable battery and it's upgradeable.

:apple:

50548
Jan 21, 2007, 07:33 AM
I wonder if the hardcore detractors are reading these forums. :rolleyes: Although I have my doubts, I have faith that Apple will provide a very wicked device. With rumor floating about that the price will be discounted with the service plan, it may do even better than the optimists project. People keep badmouthing the tie-in with Cingular, but if this was Verizon sewers would belch all the curses of every language while the earth implodes, cuz Verizon sucks.

Anyway, people have paid pretty big premiums for phones that do even less than the iPhone. My sister's sidekick III is proof of this.

That's exactly it. I am not in the US, but I know Cingular is the largest single provider in that country. MR forums are always like that...you see half a dozen detractors and you tend to think that they represent the truth or the majority...not by a long shot.

These are the same detractors that said the iPod would be a flop EXACTLY for the same reasons stated for the iPhone...a normal user couldn't care LESS about "3rd party apps", "replaceable batteries" and so on. The success of Apple derives from its perfect integration hard/software...nothing less, nothing more.

Apple prices? They have never been so low, yet people pay Apple premiums because they know Macs, iPods and the iPhone will give them a great experience.

Apple quality? No discussion about it, as millions of reports have shown.

UI? No comments as well...the iPhone is miles away from any crappy Treo or Nokia...their interfaces are awfully scary.

Furthermore, Apple is using the 6-month gap just to identify what is REALLY needed, including controlled support for 3rd party developers...just wait and see. As for me, the iPhone is bought the moment it comes to Switzerland (in case my provider supports it)...no questions asked.

Xyl
Jan 21, 2007, 09:38 AM
These are the same detractors that said the iPod would be a flop EXACTLY for the same reasons stated for the iPhone...a normal user couldn't care LESS about "3rd party apps", "replaceable batteries" and so on. The success of Apple derives from its perfect integration hard/software...nothing less, nothing more.

Exactly! If the iPhone is targeted at a consumer market (which I STRONGLY believe it is), they don't care about 3rd part apps, contrary to what everyone believes here. A friend of mine, which doesn't follow Apple products at all, heard about the iPhone. She said that some people don't like it because there is no 3rd party application support. She then went on to ask me "Why would you need to install applications on your phone? What extra applications do you need? Give me an example" - in other words, she was absolutely clueless on the necessity of additional applications on the iPhone. And this is coming from your average consumer, not some power business user.

SPUY767
Jan 21, 2007, 10:13 AM
I love the iPhone, but I seriously doubt that a qwerty keyboard can ever be as quick as predictive texting on a keypad. A keypad with predictive text will always take less strokes than a qwerty one. I'm dog slow on a blackberry, or any keyboard that requires me to look at the keys. I can type between 80wpm when I'm touch typing though.

I just wish Apple would give a second option of being able to use some form of predictive text that didnt use a qwerty keyboard.

jay

I'm not entirely sure you understand just how fast 80 WPM is, but that would be damn near a world record. The world record holder took 57 sdeconds and change to type a 26 word pair of sentences on a keypad. And the world's fastest typist on a QWERTY Keyboard, Barbara Blackburn can type 138 WPM on a qwerty. I'd say that about 90-95% of people who have clerical jobs, typing all day, can barely sustain 80 WPM for any length of time.