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View Full Version : Embattled, Bush Held To Plan to Salvage Iraq




zimv20
Jan 21, 2007, 02:53 PM
wash post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/20/AR2007012001446_pf.html)


In Face of Advice, He Pushed Buildup

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had a surprise for President Bush when they sat down with their aides in the Four Seasons Hotel in Amman, Jordan. Firing up a PowerPoint presentation, Maliki and his national security adviser proposed that U.S. troops withdraw to the outskirts of Baghdad and let Iraqis take over security in the strife-torn capital. Maliki said he did not want any more U.S. troops at all, just more authority.

The president listened intently to the unexpected proposal at their Nov. 30 meeting, according to accounts from several administration officials. Bush seemed impressed that Maliki had taken the initiative, but it did not take him long to reject the idea.

By the time Bush returned to Washington, the plan had already been picked through by his military commanders. At a meeting in the White House's Roosevelt Room, the president flatly told his advisers that the Maliki plan was not going to work. He had concluded that the Iraqis were not up to the task and that Baghdad would collapse into chaos, making a bad situation worse. And so the Americans would have to help them.

[...]

the rest of the piece is about bush's surge/escalation/plan/whatever, and how it came into being, but i thought the quoted bit above was worth adding to the equation -- it's the first i'd heard that.

i also found these bits interesting:

Yet in hindsight, some Bush advisers believe they misjudged the politics that would greet Bush's Jan. 10 unveiling of the new plan. They understood that many if not most Democrats would not welcome a troop increase but thought at least some would grudgingly go along -- not anticipating what ended up as near-universal opposition by Democrats and visceral anger even among some Republicans.

They had hoped more members of Congress would embrace the advice that Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.) gave the president during one session in the Cabinet Room. "Mr. President, I have two words for you," Lieberman said, according to officials who were present. " 'Be bold.' "



Queso
Jan 21, 2007, 02:56 PM
So even the Iraqi Government are against the escalation...I mean surge. Is anyone with more than half a brain actually for the idea?

pseudobrit
Jan 21, 2007, 03:07 PM
Who does Bush listen to?

Really, there seems to be almost no one pushing him in the directions he keeps falling.

mactastic
Jan 21, 2007, 03:17 PM
Who does Bush listen to?

Darth Cheney presumably.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 21, 2007, 03:44 PM
Bush is a arrogant knucklehead, If he was smart he would move the troops closer to the Iran Border to make sure they dont pull anything after he attacks their nuclear bomb making facilities. Iran has a WMD program. Move the troops to isolated locations and let Iraq fight their 1,000 year Civil war.

Queso
Jan 21, 2007, 03:47 PM
Iran has a WMD program.
So does the USA. How about he moves the troops closer to there?

skunk
Jan 21, 2007, 06:37 PM
How about he just admits he's not up to the job?

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 21, 2007, 06:44 PM
How about he just admits he's not up to the job?
This is what I fear, His inability to do anything with countrys who have WMD programs is bothersome to say the least. His mismangement in Iraq has everyone questioning his abilty to tackle Iran or North Korea. My biggest fear is all the good generals & brains have left and so we have the brown-noser class who will be running the Iraq & Iran campaigns.
Meanwhile Europe cant see the forest for the trees's, They have had Russia turn off their Oil twice, they are cutting deals with China while its shooting down Satellites, and they have a Iran who is a terrorist sponsering nation building Nukes in their backyard and what do we hear out of them?

skunk
Jan 21, 2007, 07:38 PM
Meanwhile Europe cant see the forest for the trees's, They have had Russia turn off their Oil twice, they are cutting deals with China while its shooting down Satellites, and they have a Iran who is a terrorist sponsering nation building Nukes in their backyard and what do we hear out of them?Russia hasn't turned off anybody's oil, it's been diverted by countries through whose land the pipelines run. China has as much right as anyone to shoot down their own satellites: the US may not like it, since they think they are the only nation which should be allowed to do anything in space, but that's just tough cookies. As for sponsoring terrorists, the US has sponsored Israel, the Somali warlords, and even sponsored the Taleban and Bin Laden once. Gotta have a balance.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 21, 2007, 07:45 PM
Like I said.................Europe

Queso
Jan 22, 2007, 04:14 AM
Like I said.................Europe
I don't see the relevance. Iran has never made hostile gestures towards Europe, and EU member states maintain normal diplomatic relations. Even so, the EU has made it quite clear to the government in Tehran that their nuclear program isn't welcome, deciding that talking to the Iranians rather than threatening them is a better strategy.

As for Russia, the way the EU is expanding its border eastwards says a lot. Sooner or later once their economy has reached a certain level, Russia may even be invited to join.

MACDRIVE
Jan 22, 2007, 05:20 AM
So is it the common consensus the GW is about to attack Iran? I thought some of us were still holding out hope that it wouldn't happen. :cool:

solvs
Jan 23, 2007, 04:04 AM
Is anyone with more than half a brain actually for the idea?

Only a handful of people. Cheney, Lieb, McCain, a few others. Pretty much everyone else thinks it's a bad idea. Even conservatives who used to be for it. About 70% of Americans and a majority of the Iraqi people think it's a bad idea.

We've already lost, it's just taking some people longer than others to realize it.

takao
Jan 23, 2007, 05:25 AM
Like I said.................Europe

it should tell _you_ something that europe isn't being involved in other world regions all the time

that aside romania and bulgaria joined the EU just 3 weeks ago

and the russian price increase for earth gas might sound harsh but those countries got gas and oil for prices which were internationally considered to be a joke
gazprom wanted ca. 100 dollars instead of 46 dollars ... sounds a lot but on the other side western europe is paying 250-300 for the very same gas
same before with ukraine and you can bet on it it will happen with other countries too
if calculated up over the period of one year with the new settled prices (which are around 100 dollars for gas ) Russia is actually supporting Belarus with 3 billion a year, or 5 including oil
that's 1/3 of the US budget for international development help or roughly the money the US gives away for building armies in allied countries in the middle east)
yeah Russia is really bad, they only give a 66% price rebate now instead of 82% like before, OMG how can do do such a terrible thing

about china anti satellite rockets: the US has those too.... except the US had them for decades: clean up in front of your _own_ door

iran is hardly a threat for europe, what are they going to do ? invade europe ?, that aside they are surrounded by US "allies" (irak, turkey, afghanistan, pakistan) so i'm not surprised they are concerned about national security ...
even if they acquired nuclear weapons to attack another country with a first strike, europe wouldn't be the first target ... it wouldn't even be on the iranian top 10 list

bozigle
Jan 23, 2007, 05:36 AM
Like I said.................Europe

If that means not using force and jumping at every country that is a bit different... poor buggers of European... thinking that differences are not always problems... and problems have other solution than war and strenght... I pitty us little european and i envy US citizen sooooo much.(in fact i will not put all US citizen under the same label... but mainly your gouvernement).

Where can i apply for a green card?

bozigle