iPhone/Verizon? 3G Unlocked?

[I'mAMac]

Does anyone think that maybe down the road the iPhone will be available to verizon or other cell phone companies?

[psychofreak]

Possibly...not the 1st gen iPhone though...

[balamw]

Possibly...not the 1st gen iPhone though...

And reportedly not until 2009 at the earliest. Apple and Cingular both have referred to their deal as a multi-year exclusive.

B

[EricNau]

I doubt Verizon will ever carry the iPhone because Verizon uses CDMA, but Apple went with the worldwide standard, GSM.

[balamw]

I doubt Verizon will ever carry the iPhone because Verizon uses CDMA, but Apple went with the worldwide standard, GSM.

Both CDMA and GSM are converging and once 3G networks are fully deployed it'll be hard to tell the difference between them. "3GSM/UMTS" is a wide-band CDMA standard.

Of course the 1st gen iPhone doesn't support it, but the one planned for Europe later in the year might already.

B

[oceanmonster]

I hope they do. I would really consider buying it in a heartbeat if it was on verizon. It is the strongest provider in my area and I refuse to switch networks.

[crees!]

I hope they do. I would really consider buying it in a heartbeat if it was on verizon. It is the strongest provider in my area and I refuse to switch networks.

I use verizon here but I won't stand to use my inferior Razr any longer. I'll be switching back to Cingular in a heartbeat.

[pianoman]

I hope they do. I would really consider buying it in a heartbeat if it was on verizon. It is the strongest provider in my area and I refuse to switch networks.

same here. i'm in the Washington, D.C. area.

I use verizon here but I won't stand to use my inferior Razr any longer. I'll be switching back to Cingular in a heartbeat.

why not get a new phone instead of switching providers? Verizon sells other phones besides the RAZR. i just picked up a Samsung that's not loaded with features but it works as a phone, which is pretty much all i need it for.

[Martin C]

You are out of luck for quite awhile, as the iPhone is GSM.

[motomullet]

Verizon will never carry it. iPhone + Verizon red OS = junk

[fishkorp]

same here. i'm in the Washington, D.C. area.

really? i've never had less than 2 bars anywhere i go in the DC/Baltimore area with Cingular. i switched to Cingular when i moved to the area 3 years ago because of their far better coverage and service they have here.

to answer the original poster: most people hit it on the head. the phone (at least initially) is GSM only and they have a multi-year exclusive agreement with Cingular in the US. if they'd go with Verizon it wouldn't be for a looooong time.

[MacCheetah3]

Hi
Verizon will never carry it. iPhone + Verizon red OS = junk
Very good point. Verizon enjoys putting their crappy ( slow / unstable ) skin on phone OSs and Apple wouldn't allow that, nor would anyone wanting to purchase the iPhone. I bet using a Motorola phone from Verizon is a blast. :D :p ( hint: slow + slow ≠ pleasant )

On top of that, until Verizon finally moves to WCDMA from the outdated CDMA, Apple won't likely touch them with a 10ft pole.

[Aperture]

why not get a new phone instead of switching providers? Verizon sells other phones besides the RAZR. i just picked up a Samsung that's not loaded with features but it works as a phone, which is pretty much all i need it for.

I think he means how VZW cripples their phones. They disable 90% of the features on the Razr, which gets me mad too. (I have a V3m)

VZW + :apple: =:mad:

(Sorry, have been looking for an excuse to use :apple: all day)

[7on]

I think he means how VZW cripples their phones. They disable 90% of the features on the Razr, which gets me mad too. (I have a V3m)

VZW + :apple: =:mad:

(Sorry, have been looking for an excuse to use :apple: all day)

indeed, I want to switch to T-Mobile though (Cingular is almost as bad as Verizon minus the crippling phones part). Hopefully Verizon's SMS price hike can get me off w/o etf

[FoxyKaye]

Sure, there may be an iPhone available through Verizon after Apple's deal with Cingular times out, but Verizon's version will be called the "iPhon" because they'll have crippled out half of the features.

[balamw]

Sure, there may be an iPhone available through Verizon after Apple's deal with Cingular times out, but Verizon's version will be called the "iPhon" because they'll have crippled out half of the features.

I was thinking "IFN" given Moto's naming scheme, RAZR, ROKR, ... :p

B

[nutmac]

Both CDMA and GSM are converging and once 3G networks are fully deployed it'll be hard to tell the difference between them. "3GSM/UMTS" is a wide-band CDMA standard.

Both right and wrong. While both 3G/3.5G successors of GSM (Cingular, T-Mobile) and CDMAone/CDMA2000 (Sprint PCS, Verizon Wireless) are based on CDMA, they are incompatible. For GSM, 2.5G = GPR, 2.75G = EDGE, 3G = UMTS. For CDMAone/CDMA2000, 2.75G = 1xRTT, 3G = 1xEV-DO.

Here's where it gets tricky. Both Verizon and Sprint are committed to 1xEV-DO and has/will roll out faster revision (e.g., EV-DO rev A, rev B) that will effectively upgrade it to 3.5G. On the other hand, some Asian countries that used CDMA2000 (e.g., Korea) is abandoning CDMA2000 in favor of HSDPA. But HSDPA is not part of CDMA2000 family and will not interoperate.

[balamw]

Both right and wrong.

....

HSDPA is not part of CDMA2000 family and will not interoperate.

I see how I was unclear, but I didn't mean to imply interoperability, only that most of the future air interfaces are far more like CDMA than traditional GSM. And that this fact will drive future "GSM" and "CDMA" handsets to be more similar than they are today.

Ultimately CDMA wins over TDMA-like systems like GSM.

B

[NavyWings]

continues to use their current user unfriendly business model, no. Verizon enjoys the luxury of having one of the strongest networks in the country. They own most of the towers that the other providers use, but verizon has traditionally refused to listen to users needs.

I've been looking for a good reason to switch from verizon and the iPhone just may be it. I bought a RAZR only to find Verizon deliberately disabled the OBEX feature allowing transfer of files via bluetooth :mad: . Verizon claimed it was a security issue (what kind I'm not sure :confused: ) though other networks enable this feature. It's all about money. When you take a picture and have to email it to yourself rather than download it, Verizon picks up a cool 30 cents. Multiply that by millions of users and multiple emails, well it's a nice chunk of change.

I think Verizon's greed and unwillingness to listen to the customers desires and needs will ultimately backfire on them and the iPhone just may be the first pebble in the dam.

[falcon1]

I've used Verizon for the past 2 years and our contract is up next month but I can't switch. Where I live most people if not all use Verizon so its cheaper for unlimited text messaging for $10 a month and talking with the IN minutes Verizon customers. I'm hoping that when I move to Atlanta for my final two years of college in 2 years that I can switch to Cingular or maybe before then i'm not sure.

[yadmonkey]

No iPhone for me until they do... Cingular doesn't work at all at my home and I don't have a home phone anymore.

[suneohair]

No iPhone for me until the do... Cingular doesn't work at all at my home and I don't have a home phone anymore.

You won't be getting an iPhone then.

[yadmonkey]

You won't be getting an iPhone then.

Stunning deduction.

[suneohair]

Stunning deduction.

Didn't details come out stating that Verizon said no? I doubt Verizon will change its pracitce of controlling the UI, which isn't going to fly with Apple.

If it does happen we are talking years. At which point Cingular may have coverage over the posters house so he can switch.

Also, sometimes the phone is to blame for poor coverage, so the iPhone may actually work. There is a return policy of 14 days, so you could try it and take it back if it doesnt work.

[yadmonkey]

Didn't details come out stating that Verizon said no? I doubt Verizon will change its pracitce of controlling the UI, which isn't going to fly with Apple.

If it does happen we are talking years. At which point Cingular may have coverage over the posters house so he can switch.

Also, sometimes the phone is to blame for poor coverage, so the iPhone may actually work. There is a return policy of 14 days, so you could try it and take it back if it doesnt work.

You're quite right, though I know that it's the coverage and not the phone in terms of Cingular working at my place. I have people in and out of my house daily and only Verizon people get a signal.

I suspect that the iPhone will eventually come to Verizon, though not for at least a couple of years. If it sells well, Verizon will cave on the UI, especially if Cingular starts catching up on coverage.

Picking a cellular service feels like chosing a presidential candidate... you end up going with the choice which is slightly less nauseating.

[howard]

its not impossible that apple makes a cdma which verizon does not cripple... after the cingular contract is up. crazier things have happened... ie: apple switching to intel?

besides, if the iphone does indeed sell well I'm sure that:
1. verizon will want to get in on it and
2. apple will want to get in on verizons userbase

[sellitman]

a moth to a flame.

:apple:

[steamboat26]

I have verizon and hope they eventually get the iphone (although i probably won't be able to afford it) but knowing verizon, it will probably be 5 years until they get it. Almost every carrier had the razr before verizon did.
Cingular always gets the best phones first :(
IMO verizon has the best network, but the worst phones.

[yadmonkey]

Almost every carrier had the razr before verizon did.

Yeah, but only for like a year. If it's only a year until iPhone comes to Verizon, I'll be happy.

[suneohair]

Yeah, but only for like a year. If it's only a year until iPhone comes to Verizon, I'll be happy.

MULTI-YEAR EXCLUSIVE. What aren't people understanding about that? It doesn't matter if Apple wants Verizon, or if Verizon wants Apple. Apple has signed a multi-year exclusive deal with Cingular/AT&T. They cannot bail or they will be sued.

Some have said 2009, which would be 2 years. Could be longer.

Verizon might get it, but honestly I doubt it and the world will be a better place if they don't.

[itsme92]

IMO verizon has the best network, but the worst phones.

That is so true. Too bad we can't have the best of both worlds. :(

[Stadsport]

A CDMA version might come out in SK, and it's possible it can be hacked to all hell to run on Verizon, much like people run amp'd hollywoods on Verizon.

[brianus]

Hi

Very good point. Verizon enjoys putting their crappy ( slow / unstable ) skin on phone OSs and Apple wouldn't allow that, nor would anyone wanting to purchase the iPhone.

Boy, you Mac folk really are ignorant when it comes to the PDA world! Explains a lot of the strange iPhone comments I see around here; you think entirely in terms of traditional cell phones. Verizon's "skins" on Windows Mobile PDA-phones amount to little more than a brief startup screen, not much more than we can expect from Cingular on the iPhone. Actually, as far as the OS goes, there's more branding in the iPhone screenshots we've seen (the little Cingular logo at the top of the screen) than in the "Today" screen in my 2-year-old WM5 touch-screen PDAphone from Verizon (that is to say, there is no branding whatsoever, nor a custom skin).

Like the iPod before it, iPhone is hardly a revolutionary or new idea -- it's just Apple's more stylish entry in an existing field of devices known as PDA Phones (*not* smartphones), that has been around for 3 or 4 years now. If you're going to make comparisons, make comparisons to the other devices in this class, not a RAZr or whatever you're thinking of!

[mrthieme]

I think he means how VZW cripples their phones. They disable 90% of the features on the Razr, which gets me mad too. (I have a V3m)

VZW + :apple: =:mad:

(Sorry, have been looking for an excuse to use :apple: all day)
Amen! I'm in the same situation. I know Verizon does seem to have a reliable system, I just won't support a company like this with my money any more. My contract expires in May and iphone arrives in June, it's like the perfect storm. I hope AT T offers some decent plans for it, but I'm having serious doubts.

[buffalo]

It really is too bad iPhone is Cingular only, but I guess Apple had to do it. My family and most of my friends are on Verizon, so it would not be practical to switch. Also, Verizon seems to get better service in my area (Cincinnati), atleast comparing my phone to my friend on Cingular.

Also, Verizons UI is not bad. I had been waiting to upgrade phones until after the iPhone came out, so once I knew I wouldn't be getting it, I went for the Moto KRZR. I have no complaints about the UI... It's simple enough to navigate on the phone.

[yadmonkey]

MULTI-YEAR EXCLUSIVE. What aren't people understanding about that?

First of all, you missed my point - I wasn't saying the iPhone would be out in a year. I was saying that the Razr was, so it wasn't necessarily a fair comparison. In other words, I'd be pleasantly surprised to see it on Verizon in a year.

As for your certainty about this MULTI-YEAR EXCLUSIVE, is it because of this...?

Apple® and Cingular announced that Cingular, the largest wireless carrier in the US, will be Apple’s exclusive US carrier partner for Apple’s revolutionary iPhone unveiled today. As part of this multi-year partnership, Apple and Cingular are working together to provide innovative new features to mobile phone users, such as iPhone’s pioneering and unique Visual Voicemail, a first on any mobile phone in the world.

I've seen enough misleading press releases about exclusives in my time to know that the above does not explicitly state the length of the exclusivity of the agreement. It does indeed say it's exclusive and it does indeed say it's a multi-year partnership, but that doesn't mean it's a multi-year exclusive. That's basic logic. These things are worded carefully and I'm fairly certain that the word partnership would not have been used if it was an explicit multi-year exclusive. If you have another official source, please do tell.

[Cult Follower]

They will stay with singular for a while.

[yadmonkey]

They will stay with singular for a while.

Thanks, Ms. Cleo!

[flysandy]

I know this is an older topic, but I still get questions all the time so....

Many VZ employees are anxious to see the iPhone with Verizon Wireless (self included - I am a BIG Mac fan), but it isn't an issue of the UI or even the GSM vs. CDMA differences. Early Mac rumors indicated the Mac was developing the phone for both platforms and I am inclined to believe it's true. VZ had major issues with the fact that Apple wanted a portion of the monthly revenue (on top of the cost of the phone). That and other "unspecified" demands from apple ultimately caused VZ turn down the option to be the exclusive carrier. Perhaps the other demands were UI related, but some VZ phones don't use the UI so I don't think that was the issue - I think it was all financial and ego on both parties. USA today reported this fact as well (the financial stuff anyway).

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-verizon-iphone_x.htm

Anyway that's the story from inside the company and out...I sure hope they can come to an agreement before too long (2009?). I stand behind VZ service, not because I work for the broadband side of the same company ...but because I do believe it's the best network. I dropped the local phone service because I had better options, and I wouldn't hesitate to do the same w/ cell service. I sooooo want an iPhone...but I've known too many people w/ issues w/ Cingular coverage.

[yayaba]

I'm with Cingular now... I switched over last November even before the iPhone was announced because I was sick and tired of VZW's phones. (namely, I wanted to get a Sony Ericsson K790a :))

In my 6+ months with Cingular, I can definitely say VZW's call quality is better. I talk to my girlfriend all the time on the phone and when I had Verizon, I could hear her perfectly fine but now with Cingular, a lot of times I have to ask, "huh? what? can you say that again?". It's not terrible but it is slightly annoying.

If I had an opportunity to go back to Verizon though, I'd probably just stick with Cingular. I like being able to use whatever phone I want.

[askripko]

As i understand, you can't buy iPhone without Cingular Operator contract???

The Biggest Apple iPhone Blog
http://iphone-forum.blogspot.com/

[LxTxNx]

Does anyone think that maybe down the road the iPhone will be available to verizon or other cell phone companies?

NOPE!

[okolo]

I have verizon and hope they eventually get the iphone (although i probably won't be able to afford it) but knowing verizon, it will probably be 5 years until they get it. Almost every carrier had the razr before verizon did.
Cingular always gets the best phones first :(
IMO verizon has the best network, but the worst phones.

You've hit the nail on the head, its not just your opinion. Its a fact

[/dev/toaster]

And reportedly not until 2009 at the earliest. Apple and Cingular both have referred to their deal as a multi-year exclusive.

B

Its a 5 year exclusive ... so, if they don't resign with them ... 2012.

[yadmonkey]

Its a 5 year exclusive ... so, if they don't resign with them ... 2012.

Maybe by then ATT will work in my area - just in time for the end of the world!!

[iMichael72]

same here. i'm in the Washington, D.C. area.



why not get a new phone instead of switching providers? Verizon sells other phones besides the RAZR. i just picked up a Samsung that's not loaded with features but it works as a phone, which is pretty much all i need it for.

I'm in the D.C. area myself. I never would have made the switch from Verizon, but I had to have the Treo 650 which Verizon didn't have at the time.

I was pretty happy with Verizon.

Now Sprint(which lead me to Cingular/AT&T), that's another story!

[roegmann]

In Southern California, Verizon is King. My work (scores of field bound employees) dropped Cingular because of dropped calls and poor coverage, especially in the rural areas. Verizon, while not user friendly, is network friendly here.

Phones have been unlocked for use on other networks. Will iPhones be able to be unlocked or will that be considered a breach and/or illegal?

[fishkorp]

In Southern California, Verizon is King. My work (scores of field bound employees) dropped Cingular because of dropped calls and poor coverage, especially in the rural areas. Verizon, while not user friendly, is network friendly here.

Phones have been unlocked for use on other networks. Will iPhones be able to be unlocked or will that be considered a breach and/or illegal?

even if it could be unlocked it won't work on Verizon, they're 2 totally different technologies. Verizon is CDMA, the iPhone is GSM. i'm guessing there will never be a North American CDMA iPhone ever.

[ps49556n]

Sure, there may be an iPhone available through Verizon after Apple's deal with Cingular times out, but Verizon's version will be called the "iPhon" because they'll have crippled out half of the features.



LOL.... DOnt hold your breath for any innovative products from Verizon. I have had Verizon for around 6 years and have always been extremely frustrated with the boring feature-less flip phones. Their business model for the consumer wireless segment is focusing on deployment if its VZNavigator service (GPS; free on cingular), and Vcast. Vcast BTW is IMO a pathetic attempt at bringing media to a mobile device. Verizon customers are with Verizon for one reason only; the customer service and the network coverage. These are important features but I think in the upcomming years, consumers will be focused more on phone features rather than service.

Besides my rant about Verizon, Apple and ATT have a 5-year exclusive contract so the earliest would be 2011-2012. I really dont understand why people make such a big deal over switch to ATT?? THe only matter I can see that is legitimate is not wanting to pay an early-termination fee.

[yadmonkey]

I really dont understand why people make such a big deal over switch to ATT?? THe only matter I can see that is legitimate is not wanting to pay an early-termination fee.

How about the fact that AT&T service stinks in many people's home areas? I can't get a signal from AT&T at my home and I'm all cellular - no home phone for years.

[acastic]

How about the fact that AT&T service stinks in many people's home areas? I can't get a signal from AT&T at my home and I'm all cellular - no home phone for years.

What most people don't know.. is that AT&T is in process of building hundreds of GSM/Edge cell sites just for the iphone project, including microcells (minature cell sites) that will operate at every Apple store. This mass build of cell sites isn't just to increase call capacity either, many dead signal areas are going to be covered/improved. Apple wouldn't sign a 5 year contract with a company thats going to let the older 2G network drop off the face of the planet. Now, why Apple decided to go with a GSM/Edge phone versus a 3G phone of sorts, is completely beyond me.

[Aperture]

I'm sorry but when I read the thread title, this is all I could think of. Being bored, I decided to make a quick picture of what I was thinking...

http://www.kevinschaefer.net/macrumors/verizoniphone.png

..:D

[yadmonkey]

Funny stuff, Ap!

Although part of that picture betrays why I'm sticking with Verizon - full bars! AT&T at my house = no bars.

[ps49556n]

I'm sorry but when I read the thread title, this is all I could think of. Being bored, I decided to make a quick picture of what I was thinking...

http://www.kevinschaefer.net/macrumors/verizoniphone.png

..:D

Shear genius:D :D :D :D

[/dev/toaster]

I'm sorry but when I read the thread title, this is all I could think of. Being bored, I decided to make a quick picture of what I was thinking...

http://www.kevinschaefer.net/macrumors/verizoniphone.png

..:D

LOL that is funny. One thing you are missing is the Verizon logo on the phone it self, generally in the most annoying place. Its also important that the screen say Verizon Wireless _right under_ the logo on the phone.

[puckhead193]

[QUOTE=Aperture;3799745]I'm sorry but when I read the thread title, this is all I could think of. Being bored, I decided to make a quick picture of what I was thinking...
/QUOTE]
very true....the sad part is that its probably what verizon wanted to do...

[ps49556n]

Boy, you Mac folk really are ignorant when it comes to the PDA world! Explains a lot of the strange iPhone comments I see around here; you think entirely in terms of traditional cell phones. Verizon's "skins" on Windows Mobile PDA-phones amount to little more than a brief startup screen, not much more than we can expect from Cingular on the iPhone. Actually, as far as the OS goes, there's more branding in the iPhone screenshots we've seen (the little Cingular logo at the top of the screen) than in the "Today" screen in my 2-year-old WM5 touch-screen PDAphone from Verizon (that is to say, there is no branding whatsoever, nor a custom skin).

Like the iPod before it, iPhone is hardly a revolutionary or new idea -- it's just Apple's more stylish entry in an existing field of devices known as PDA Phones (*not* smartphones), that has been around for 3 or 4 years now. If you're going to make comparisons, make comparisons to the other devices in this class, not a RAZr or whatever you're thinking of!

Actually you are wrong sir. Verizon DOES cripple the features in some of its PDAs. Look at the new BB 8830. Where is the built in GPS feature you ask???? Oh, sorry. Verizon disabled this so you would have to subscribe to its VZ Navigator service for an extra monthly fee. Note, this is totally free with the Cingular model. Also note, the in an interview, RIM's CEO stated that rather than incorporate new technologies such as 3G or quality cameras, it was "completely focused on promoting the new built-in GPS feature on its devises". Just one example but i am sure there are others I do not know about because I havent used the devices.

[rickoshea]

I don't know about you, but I have used many cellular services over the years and lived in MD, CA, NJ and WI, and I travel throughout the country and abroad. I understand Apple's decision to go with GSM rather than CDMA, as it is easier to promulgate the iPhone on a worldwide basis, and I do understand the limitations that Verizon puts on its phones for business reasons.
Still, I cannot understand going with the Cingular brand. Cingular/AT&T is still the least reliable of the large carriers. It, along with its parent company and AT&T also have the 1-2-3 WORST customer service records of all of the telecommunications companies in America.
Even though I have longed for many years to get the only iPhone feature that is of interest to me, visual voicemail, I am not willing to trade it for a voice service that is as sporadic as Cingular/AT&T, and whose EVDO service is non-existent. In any case, it is still missing the features of saving the voice recordings to disc and call blocking, which are the things that interest me even more than visual voice mail.
Unfortunately Apple may have been forced to pick from the lesser of the many evils, but I am worried that it will tarnish the great name of Apple, simply because of the carrier it has chosen. I hope the product quality shines through the abysmal service that all of you are about to face. Good luck to one and all.

[jsc8997@comcast]

Just thought you guys would like the scoop to the reasons that Verizon and iPhone will not be together.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-verizon-iphone_x.htm

I actually have had Cingular, T-Mobile, Sprint, Nextel and Verizon. Of them, Verizon is my carrier due to it's ability to work where others don't. I also have had the best customer service with them. I currently have the XV6700 and it works great. Many hacks to get rid of any unwanted Verizon software/locks. I also enjoy having the freedom of a mobile os versus their own software.

The article above, I think, spells out that Apple (products I love) was just asking too much in a manufacturer role. Motorola doesn't (to my knowledge) get any of the service agreement money from individual customers. Most wireless providers wouldn't want to give this up.

[Nall]

and whose EVDO service is non-existent.
What? Cingular doesn't use EVDO, they use another standard.

And I'll be honest with you, while I have had my fair share of dropped calls on their network, I was pleasantly surprised by their 3G data service. I figured I'd never see service in most of the places I go (mid-sized cities) but they all seem to have blazing 3G speeds.

[A Pittarelli]

lol ha

[Hmac]

I doubt Verizon will ever carry the iPhone because Verizon uses CDMA, but Apple went with the worldwide standard, GSM.The RAZR was Cingular-only - same exclusive deal. Now they're available from almost all carriers and they practically come in cereal boxes. The difference with the iPhone is that Apple wants to maintain retail control, not have the iPhone ultimately end up being some $29 throw-away or freebie with a two year contract.

Reportedly, Apple went to Verizon first, but when they said they wanted sales control and a cut of the rate plan, Verizon said "uh, no". AT&T said "OK", but they got a 5 year exclusive in return.

Or so the story goes. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-verizon-iphone_x.htm

[Hmac]

I don't know about you, but I have used many cellular services over the years and lived in MD, CA, NJ and WI, and I travel throughout the country and abroad. I understand Apple's decision to go with GSM rather than CDMA, as it is easier to promulgate the iPhone on a worldwide basis, and I do understand the limitations that Verizon puts on its phones for business reasons.
Still, I cannot understand going with the Cingular brand. Cingular/AT&T is still the least reliable of the large carriers. It, along with its parent company and AT&T also have the 1-2-3 WORST customer service records of all of the telecommunications companies in America.
Even though I have longed for many years to get the only iPhone feature that is of interest to me, visual voicemail, I am not willing to trade it for a voice service that is as sporadic as Cingular/AT&T, and whose EVDO service is non-existent. In any case, it is still missing the features of saving the voice recordings to disc and call blocking, which are the things that interest me even more than visual voice mail.
Unfortunately Apple may have been forced to pick from the lesser of the many evils, but I am worried that it will tarnish the great name of Apple, simply because of the carrier it has chosen. I hope the product quality shines through the abysmal service that all of you are about to face. Good luck to one and all.

Apple didn't pick GSM vs CDMA. CDMA was their original preference. They went to Verizon first.

[princealfie]

Verizon is evil... those NSA wiretapping F&**(()*()*)(. Enough for me when all of my privacy is invaded.

[skubish]

Well I would say I like ATT. Great signal, no dropped calls and their phones aren't crippled.

Verizon: meh, crippled phones and no signal at work. I mean zero, people at work who have VZW cannot make/receive calls at work.

Sprint: I was with them, great data speeds, but I get poor coverage at home.

[transitman]

I think Apple needs to come out with the 6th Gen iPod (which will be an iPhone minus AT&T) so that we will not have to have Apple plus anyone. We all love Apple's products and we hate the restrictions that come from everyone else. I think with the new iPod (probably to come out in Oct/Nov) we will see a NICE pocket Mac device with PDA, Wi-Fi, better battery, more memory, better bluetooth, ect. This is going to be the relvolutionary device because it will be all Apple. Can I get a witness?

[jakebechtold]

Apple may have to go to verizon. Here's why: AT&T says they have "the largest digital voice and data coverage in America." If you look at their coverage map, you'll notice that most of Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, and Nevada have NO COVERAGE WHATSOEVER. That's a good chunk of the US without coverage.

I hope Steve Jobs is reading this.

[meagain]

Why is it not possible to create another iPhone version with 3g (and removeable battery) and have it be non-AT&T? Wouldn't that basically be another separate product? Does the agreement with AT&T REALLY say "OK, we're locked into you for ALL incarnations of the phone". I'm saying, a different model of iPhone (3g) 'could' tie to another provider - right? Why is that not possible?

[DiamondMac]

I had AT&T before this iPhone and hated it.

Customer Service was TERRIBLE
Coverage was TERRIBLE
Everything was TERRIBLE

I switched to Verizon and honestly have had no complaints. No bill problems, Phone has been fine, Coverage is fine, and the Customer Support was MUCH BETTER

I am switching back for the iPhone but hope there are drastic improvments in AT&T

[fishkorp]

Apple may have to go to verizon. Here's why: AT&T says they have "the largest digital voice and data coverage in America." If you look at their coverage map, you'll notice that most of Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, and Nevada have NO COVERAGE WHATSOEVER. That's a good chunk of the US without coverage.

I hope Steve Jobs is reading this.
i'm pretty sure they say largest network, not largest coverage area (which isn't their fault, it's due to exclusivity agreements and GSM restrictions in many area out west). and largest network is true based on number of subscribers. but their coverage will get better if they keep acquiring smaller companies that have coverage in places they don't like they have been.

and they don't have "no coverage" in Nevada. i had nearly a full signal from the Reno airport all the way to Tahoe and all around Tahoe, even on the slopes at Heavenly.

[thomasfxlt]

I just switched from Verizon to ATT and I've had the opposite experience. Coverage is better, service is better and most of all....the iPhone is better.

[thomasfxlt]

Apple may have to go to verizon. Here's why: AT&T says they have "the largest digital voice and data coverage in America." If you look at their coverage map, you'll notice that most of Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, and Nevada have NO COVERAGE WHATSOEVER. That's a good chunk of the US without coverage.

I hope Steve Jobs is reading this.

AT&T has announce the acquisition of Cellular One (Dobson Communications). They control the service in many of these markets. Announced June 30....

[mrtune]

All this talk about verizon crippling their phones is only half true.

While the regular phones, like the razr, are stripped down and redone, the pda phones and blackberries are not. I had a motorola q before switching to the iphone. There was no bluetooth crippling, no get it know crap, no vcast, no red os all over the place.

The only thing they added was a few programs and whatnot for better email capabilities and that's about it.

[codpet]

MULTI-YEAR EXCLUSIVE. What aren't people understanding about that? It doesn't matter if Apple wants Verizon, or if Verizon wants Apple. Apple has signed a multi-year exclusive deal with Cingular/AT&T. They cannot bail or they will be sued.

Some have said 2009, which would be 2 years. Could be longer.

Verizon might get it, but honestly I doubt it and the world will be a better place if they don't.

From what I read, it's going to be a 5 year contract, which makes more sense to me than say a 2 year contract.

Don't expect to see the iPhone on any other network any time soon.

I switched from Sprint to ATT/Cingular for the iPhone. Not only am I saving money on the plan, but the service is better in my area.

[meagain]

BUT - What I want to know is if the AT&T deal is for ALL versions/iterations of the iPhone - future design, next gen with tweaks, etc....... or if it's just THIS one version? I.e.; lets say the iPhone was an iPod, would the deal be for just the iPod and not other very very different versions (Nano, Shuffle)? Those are still iPods but different.
Know what I mean? AND, what are the standards AT&T has to meet else freeing Apple to split with them?

I would love to read the entire contract between them, learn the stipulations, loopholes, etc. (I personally don't much care who the provider is as long as they go to a faster service than EDGE)

[jstennis1591]

Apple has signed an exclusive 5 year deal with AT&T for all future devices from apple that will use any cellular function

Reportedly, they went to VZW first, but they were turned down.....personally, I think that it was because they have VCast music, and they didn't want to cannibalize that already awesome ( ;) ) service..

[dsnort]

In my area, Verizons network may be marginally better than AT&T's, but it's a small margin.

Everything else about about Verizon, however, blows monkey chunks.

[jsc8997@comcast]

CNET Review:
The good: The Apple iPhone has a stunning display, a sleek design, and an innovative multitouch user interface. Its Safari browser makes for a superb Web surfing experience, and it offers easy-to-use apps. As an iPod, it shines.

The bad: The Apple iPhone has variable call quality and lacks some basic features found in many cell phones, including stereo Bluetooth support and 3G compatibility. Integrated memory is stingy for an iPod, and you have to sync the iPhone to manage music content.

The bottom line: Despite some important missing features, a slow data network, and call quality that doesn't always deliver, the Apple iPhone sets a new benchmark for an integrated cell phone and MP3 player.

PC Magazine Review:
It's the best portable media player ever. It's possibly the most fun we've ever had with a handheld device. It browses the Web like a champ. Yet as a voice phone and a messaging device, it's a loser. The iPhone is full of contradictions.

Fun new interface for navigating multimedia. Huge screen looks amazing. Terrific Web browser. Syncs well with PCs and Macs. YouTube function is great. Functions flow seamlessly into each other. Built-in speaker for voice calling and music.

Poor business e-mail and PIM connectivity. Bad audio quality on phone calls. Tons of "GSM buzz" on nearby speakers. Virtual keyboard hard to type on. No phone functionality with iPod speaker docks. No FM radio.

Amazing that you guys say Cingular is so great. These are the exact same issues I had with Cingular while I was a customer. With Verizon, the quality is awesome.

[Goldenbear]

CNET Review:
The good: The Apple iPhone has a stunning display, a sleek design, and an innovative multitouch user interface. Its Safari browser makes for a superb Web surfing experience, and it offers easy-to-use apps. As an iPod, it shines.

The bad: The Apple iPhone has variable call quality and lacks some basic features found in many cell phones, including stereo Bluetooth support and 3G compatibility. Integrated memory is stingy for an iPod, and you have to sync the iPhone to manage music content...

Sometimes I really wonder about these reviewers.

How in the world is 8GB "stingy for an iPod", when most iPods are no greater than 8GB???

Regarding call quality, it's network dependent. I called my sister from a demo iPhone, and she said it sounded just fine. I definitely didn't hear any problems on my end.

Am I the only person who's happy Apple didn't go with Verizon? I did a pretty thorough comparison of cell providers when I decided to switch plans a few years ago. There was a reason (actually, several) I didn't go with Verizon or Sprint.

[DiamondMac]

I think an argument could be made that each carrier has a different reception in every city

Down here, Verizon does a very good job with reception. AT&T on the other hand is just downright terrible. I have had 2 calls dropped while in mid-sentence in the last 2 days while I dont think I had any the last year or so on Verizon.

But, I have some friends in other cities who enjoy AT&T and their service and say its great.

[camposQ]

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/cell-phone-plans/index.html


face it verizon owns.....you people fail to realize a Iphone claims to be some kind of mini-computer yet you still are bound by a 2 year contract.....i cant remember the last time i paid for internet on my laptop....I-phone is new technology on a crappy service.......i dont care how many phones cingular,At&t t-mobile come out with it their network is inferior..i am able to call people while waiting on the 1 express train in the subway unlike cingular face it AT&T and cingular still fail at life

[Turkish]

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/cell-phone-plans/index.html


face it verizon owns.....you people fail to realize a Iphone claims to be some kind of mini-computer yet you still are bound by a 2 year contract.....i cant remember the last time i paid for internet on my laptop....I-phone is new technology on a crappy service.......i dont care how many phones cingular,At&t t-mobile come out with it their network is inferior..i am able to call people while waiting on the 1 express train in the subway unlike cingular face it AT&T and cingular still fail at life

It's the absolute truth.

If Verizon was the carrier, I would have already bought the phone. I have never lost a call on Verizon. Ever.

I'd be happy to pay the $175 contract fee to switch to ATT if there were no issues with its network, or EDGE performance. That is obviously not the case, however.

Just not feeling warm and fuzzy about giving ATT my money to run my $600 phone ... yet.

[DSchwartz88]

Well as we all know Verizon was the first choice that Apple had for the iPhone. Considering Verizon’s style of business i actually think Verizon was absolutely willing to sacrifice branding and proprietary OS and prob even crippling the features to get the iPhone. I mean 700,000 new customers in a weekend beats the hell out of anything ive ever heard of. I really think Verizon finally just said forget it to apple when apple requested a share of the profits from each plan. I think that’s a tad greedy of Apple, and if they had not asked so much we would probably be seeing a CDMA iPhone right now. I really don’t think WCDMA is necessary, I mean Apple went with EDGE and that’s much much slower than EVDO, and EVDO is actually sometimes a little faster than 3G (theoretical and real world). I really blame Apples ego for not getting the iPhone on the right carrier. I have nothing against ATT but Verizon is purely better for everything -- better CS (maybe), better call quality, and no dropped calls ever (I have never dropped a call in my 10 years using Verizon, and that’s with stock phones and custom flashed phones).

[Lancetx]

It's not like anyone can hardly blame Apple for requesting a share of the monthly plan profits. It's quite obvious that they've hand delivered AT&T a ton of new customers that they otherwise would have never had. Apple is a corporation after all, and they're in business to make the most for the company and it's stockholders that they possibly can. AT&T gave Apple a better deal, and Apple would have been foolish to not accept it, that's how business in the real world works. Verizon had their shot at the iPhone and they passed on it. And now they're paying the price for that mistake by losing thousands of their customers to AT&T.

[camposQ]

It's not like anyone can hardly blame Apple for requesting a share of the monthly plan profits. It's quite obvious that they've hand delivered AT&T a ton of new customers that they otherwise would have never had. Apple is a corporation after all, and they're in business to make the most for the company and it's stockholders that they possibly can. AT&T gave Apple a better deal, and Apple would have been foolish to not accept it, that's how business in the real world works. Verizon had their shot at the iPhone and they passed on it. And now they're paying the price for that mistake by losing thousands of their customers to AT&T.

i hardly think Verizon cares about so called loosing customer you have to remember verizon wireless is just a piece of verizon not the whole company........i think in the end revenue sharing is faulty (economics 101) and Verizon did the right thing in not caving because verizon provides a service not a product and apple wants to claim rights to the Best service in the world

[princealfie]

Verizon is a fairly good company in terms of quality but the GUI and the fact that you have to pay for each service added on with extra fees doesn't look promising!!! :(

[lilnyc]

Does anyone think that maybe down the road the iPhone will be available to verizon or other cell phone companies?

I am with AT&T, but if the iPhone isn't on your carrier, I wouldn't sweat it. There will be copycat technology and or the iPhone will be 10x better in 2 years. That's my .02.

[zap2]

face it verizon owns.....

:rolleyes: I hope your joking, when you use that phrase.
But Verizon doesn't "own" anything...other then using a weird CMDA standard. I guess it more about where you live, but AT&T has been a joy for me


.you people fail to realize a Iphone claims to be some kind of mini-computer yet you still are bound by a 2 year contract.....
The iPhone claims to be a.......phone!!!(I know hard to believe), I've yet to hear Jobs, or anyone at Apple call it a "mini-computer", if fact, Apple tried to make sure it wasn't that, they don't want another Newton.


.i cant remember the last time i paid for internet on my laptop....

Really? Because I pay for internet on my laptop, desktop, DS lite, PSP, anything with Wi-Fi.


I-phone is.......on a crappy service.......i dont care how many phones cingular,At&t t-mobile come out with it their network is inferior..
Again, AT&T's service is sure to be different where you go, but so far I've been very happy with them. AT&T doesn't make phones, the have a network, so they aren't "coming out with phone".
And AT&T is Cingular now, so I'm not sure why your insulting AT&T and Cingular.....and where did T-Mobile come into this?

face it AT&T and cingular still fail at life
Why do you personally insult companies, why should we care?



Also grammar, I'm not saying people can't make any mistakes, but maybe reread your posts, or type slower.

[camposQ]

:rolleyes: I hope your joking, when you use that phrase.
But Verizon doesn't "own" anything...other then using a weird CMDA standard. I guess it more about where you live, but AT&T has been a joy for me



The iPhone claims to be a.......phone!!!(I know hard to believe), I've yet to hear Jobs, or anyone at Apple call it a "mini-computer", if fact, Apple tried to make sure it wasn't that, they don't want another Newton.




Really? Because I pay for internet on my laptop, desktop, DS lite, PSP, anything with Wi-Fi.



Again, AT&T's service is sure to be different where you go, but so far I've been very happy with them. AT&T doesn't make phones, the have a network, so they aren't "coming out with phone".
And AT&T is Cingular now, so I'm not sure why your insulting AT&T and Cingular.....and where did T-Mobile come into this?


Why do you personally insult companies, why should we care?



Also grammar, I'm not saying people can't make any mistakes, but maybe reread your posts, or type slower.

yeah me and grammar have never been friends i admit, but for someone to comment and then say "AT&T doesn't make phones, the have a network, so they aren't "coming out with phone"." i think you mean they not the, ill forgive that type-o instead of me nailing you to the preverbial cross of grammatical errors but i digress

my statements ring true to any on the go person who takes the metros in DC or NY

[aristobrat]

my statements ring true to any on the go person who takes the metros in DC or NY
And for the rest of us in the other cities in NY and the other 49 states? :confused:

[camposQ]

And for the rest of us in the other cities in NY and the other 49 states? :confused:

hah my girlfriends laughing at me right now LOL....what is it about us and are cellphone providers why do we take it as serious as politics

[yadmonkey]

hah my girlfriends laughing at me right now LOL....what is it about us and are cellphone providers why do we take it as serious as politics

Because, like politians, we are chosing the lesser evil and no matter who we get, they have us by the balls for a few years. They both make absurd claims about how they can improve the quality of our lives and invariably fail to deliver in any significant way. Also, both politicians and cellular providers are privately owned.

[kdarling]

:rolleyes: I hope your joking, when you use that phrase.

That's "you're joking".

A hard rule of the net is that anytime you give someone grief about grammar, your own message will contain at least one glaring mistake.

In your case, LOTS of mistakes.

But who's counting? :p

[tmhyland]

I think that Apple is going to include a "cellular service provider" section perhaps in the iTunes Store. Customers can perchase the iPhone and activate it with the service provider with clearley stated plans and family plans to choose from. Apple just keeps making things more simple, and I think it's a legit idea.

[jcnyc]

I don't know about you, but I have used many cellular services over the years and lived in MD, CA, NJ and WI, and I travel throughout the country and abroad. I understand Apple's decision to go with GSM rather than CDMA, as it is easier to promulgate the iPhone on a worldwide basis, and I do understand the limitations that Verizon puts on its phones for business reasons.
Still, I cannot understand going with the Cingular brand. Cingular/AT&T is still the least reliable of the large carriers. It, along with its parent company and AT&T also have the 1-2-3 WORST customer service records of all of the telecommunications companies in America.
Even though I have longed for many years to get the only iPhone feature that is of interest to me, visual voicemail, I am not willing to trade it for a voice service that is as sporadic as Cingular/AT&T, and whose EVDO service is non-existent. In any case, it is still missing the features of saving the voice recordings to disc and call blocking, which are the things that interest me even more than visual voice mail.
Unfortunately Apple may have been forced to pick from the lesser of the many evils, but I am worried that it will tarnish the great name of Apple, simply because of the carrier it has chosen. I hope the product quality shines through the abysmal service that all of you are about to face. Good luck to one and all.


AT&T has the worst customer service and poor quality coverage. AT&T was the first carrier I ever had before Sprint and now VZW and they were the worst. Maybe I could put up with their not so good coverage but their customer service reps (at least when I had them) were so bad, I hate AT&T and will never go back to them. VZW does have the best coverage but want to charge you for anything they can think off. I have waited a long time for a PDA from apple and now it not even an option. I think apple should take some of the blame for locking out their loyal supporters who can not or like myself will not use AT&T. I can only hope they come out with a version of the iphone minus the AT&T phone.

[accinfo]

I have had the iphone for 12 days now and love the phone. However AT&T's cell service is real bad. I am at a real crossroads here. My wife and kids switched also with non-iphones and they are having the same problems with dropped calls and bad cells as I am having. I use my phone 4000 minutes a month and need reliable service. The problem is that it isn't very close. I live in the Balt/Wash area. I have to decide by Saturday but I am leaning towards going back to Verizon. I hoping they soon come out with a copycat device. I do think the Iphone is the best all around device I have owned and I have tried the Treo's, Blackberry's, and the Motorola Q.

Kurt

[RidleyGriff]

For all the comments about Customer Service being bad for AT&T, I have found them to be some of the most helpful and corteous people I've ever dealt with in CS, with an attention to detail that rivals Apple Support.

When I first activated my iPhone, I dealt with them because my Visual Voicemail didn't pop up right away. When our call was accidentally disconnected (I was on a landline and it was my fault, before anybody yells "Dropped Cell Call!") the CS rep actually called me back. Quicker than I could even dial their number, my phone was ringing. I was shocked -- who does that? Who actually makes things MORE convenient for the customer?

After the problem was resolved, they then called me on my cell the following day to ensure everything was working properly. I was really blown away -- I've never encountered that kind of great service in my life.

Of course, I am a former Verizon customer, who grew sour with them when I realized that my Moto v710 was crippled with locked out features. When I moved to the crash prone Treo 650 -- ultimately replacing three of them over a year and a half -- I had Verizon customer service representatives lie to me, give me upgrades to Treo 700ps that never materialized (and later support staff accused me of making up), promised me call back dates of three days by higher level support staff -- only for me to find out in a follow up that no such call had ever even been scheduled! This is aside from things such as renewing my contract without telling me, and just being argumentative in general (and knowing nothing about the Treo to boot).

My AT&T coverage has been great (I'm in Los Angeles), and they have really given me a feeling of being in good hands with a company that gives a damn. Perhaps that's not how they used to be, but it's certainly been my experience since June 29th -- and Verizon has lost a customer forever.

[whiteyanderson]

interesting i moved to L.A. from texas where cingular/ att had great reception. however after being here a few months i had so many dropped calls on cingular i was forced to switch to verizon who has the superior coverage out here.

customer service for both is about the same.

this isn't aimed at anyone in particlar but, i just can't see why so many people get all up in arms over their cell phones. and go to great lengths, stress and expense to switch carriers etc. i can semi understand smart phones and PDA's etc for business use. but, it's kind of crazy how many people define themselves by their phone. i'm the biggest electronic geek out there (ex computer tech, home audio freak, and full time photo retoucher) but, technology is a tool, not a crutch. a phone isn't a personal "statement" on society... it's a phone. or maybe i'm just deluded and a phone IS a personality defining apparatus ? i guess that would explain alot of things...

[zap2]

yeah me and grammar have never been friends i admit, but for someone to comment and then say "AT&T doesn't make phones, the have a network, so they aren't "coming out with phone"." i think you mean they not the, ill forgive that type-o instead of me nailing you to the preverbial cross of grammatical errors but i digress

my statements ring true to any on the go person who takes the metros in DC or NY

That's "you're joking".

A hard rule of the net is that anytime you give someone grief about grammar, your own message will contain at least one glaring mistake.

In your case, LOTS of mistakes.

But who's counting? :p

"I'm not saying people can't make any mistakes"---remember that?

For s post that was on the longer side, 2 mistakes seems fair(even 3 or 4 seems fine IMO).

[david123456789]

I hope they will but it won't be for awhile if they do. I doubt they will though. You saw what happened when they lowered the price of the iphone by $200. People will be pissed if the iphone is available to all carriers after being "forced" to switch to att and sign a 2 year contract. Apple will loose customers if they do and they already have after their iphone deduction. So to answer your question, no.

[Superman6966]

Hi

Very good point. Verizon enjoys putting their crappy ( slow / unstable ) skin on phone OSs and Apple wouldn't allow that, nor would anyone wanting to purchase the iPhone. I bet using a Motorola phone from Verizon is a blast. :D :p ( hint: slow + slow ≠ pleasant )

On top of that, until Verizon finally moves to WCDMA from the outdated CDMA, Apple won't likely touch them with a 10ft pole.

Think About it Look at Verizon's PDA's & Smart Phones.
They Dont Have the Slow red Skin.
But PDA's & Smart Phones Are Slow.
But the blackberrys Arent, but some do have the red skins
So they could make the iphone OS X Be a "Like Kind Of PDA's & Smart Phone"
at&t does have a 5 Year Contract with Apple though

[Wright]

I was really excited to buy the iPhone, but not really happy about it. :mad: Because I cannot stand being told I have to change cell phone carriers in order to purchase an iPhone. But I refuse to change cell phone carriers in order to purchase it, especially to AT&T.:mad: :cool:Verizon Wireless is the only carrier that has decent service and been with Verizon Wireless for even years.:cool: :eek:It should be about time for Verizon to listen to their customers on the iPhone.:eek: :(Verizon Wireless customers are done waiting for the iPhone. Waiting for the iPhone is too long for Verizon Wireless customers, and we can not wait to buy an iPhone until at the earliest 2009.:( :apple:It would be very nice to get the iPhone on Verizon Wireless some time in 2008.:apple:

[meagain]

Wright - Just do it. You'll love it.

[iMacZealot]

I was really excited to buy the iPhone, but not really happy about it. :mad: Because I cannot stand being told I have to change cell phone carriers in order to purchase an iPhone. But I refuse to change cell phone carriers in order to purchase it, especially to AT&T.:mad: :cool:Verizon Wireless is the only carrier that has decent service and been with Verizon Wireless for even years.:cool: :eek:It should be about time for Verizon to listen to their customers on the iPhone.:eek: :(Verizon Wireless customers are done waiting for the iPhone. Waiting for the iPhone is too long for Verizon Wireless customers, and we can not wait to buy an iPhone until at the earliest 2009.:( :apple:It would be very nice to get the iPhone on Verizon Wireless some time in 2008.:apple:

The business world is not controlled by consumers or emotions...just cold hearted lawyers....



AT&T wasn't such a bad switch. I've had all four carriers now, and I'm pretty happy with them.

[ntrigue]

How did this become 5 pages? GSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gsm) & CDMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdma) very different technologies.

[iMacZealot]

How did this become 5 pages? GSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gsm) & CDMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdma) very different technologies.

I don't think it's necessarily that, it's more of simply the contract AT&T has with Apple.

Yes, Apple initially chose GSM because they can ship the same phone worldwide, but they could produce a CDMA variant in a few years for North America...I don't see why not.

[FFR]

why would they verizon is switching to gsm

[iMacZealot]

why would they verizon is switching to gsm

All Verizon did was side with a 4G standard that is usually related with GSM. That is hardly at all confirmation that they're switching to GSM and its related standards and successors.

[FFR]

All Verizon did was side with a 4G standard that is usually related with GSM. That is hardly at all confirmation that they're switching to GSM and its related standards and successors.

verizon's 4g standard isn't related to gsm it is gsm.

"Verizon dumps CDMA for GSM-based LTE in 4G networks"

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/verizon-dumps-cdma-for-gsm-based-lte-in-4g-networks/

[iMacZealot]

verizon's 4g standard isn't related to gsm it is gsm.

"Verizon dumps CDMA for GSM-based LTE in 4G networks"

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/verizon-dumps-cdma-for-gsm-based-lte-in-4g-networks/

That's true, but 4G is still a long long way from being widely used...we're still barely getting 3G out the door.

Don't jump to conclusions.

[JML42691]

Haven't had the time to read the middle pages yet, but would Apple be able to release the iPhone to Verizon if it were an iPhone 2nd generation (say in late 2008), or does the agreement with AT&T and Apple cover future generations as well?

[eric55lv]

VZW + :apple: =:mad:
I think this comobo is better T-Mobile (us)+iPhone+:D
antways my conrtact ends as the same on with AT&T ends

[mets1125]

Haven't had the time to read the middle pages yet, but would Apple be able to release the iPhone to Verizon if it were an iPhone 2nd generation (say in late 2008), or does the agreement with AT&T and Apple cover future generations as well?


Apple signed a multi year deal with ATT. Rumor has it to be a 5 year deal. So no iphone for any US carrier until the contract expires.

[mets1125]

That's true, but 4G is still a long long way from being widely used...we're still barely getting 3G out the door.

Don't jump to conclusions.

I didnt read the article but the guy wasnt jumping to conclusions. I have read that Vz will launch 4G in 3-4 yrs. Since vodaphone owns 40% of verizon wireless they are going to use the same technology (LTE) so they can roam on each others networks.

[iMacZealot]

I didnt read the article but the guy wasnt jumping to conclusions. I have read that Vz will launch 4G in 3-4 yrs. Since vodaphone owns 40% of verizon wireless they are going to use the same technology (LTE) so they can roam on each others networks.

But I think that he's jumping to conclusions by saying that Apple will release their 4G iPhone on all carriers based on the legacy GSM and CDMAone in four years....that's really thinking pretty far out, and also it's not like Verizon will trash EVDO and flip the switch on LTE all in a single day.

[mets1125]

But I think that he's jumping to conclusions by saying that Apple will release their 4G iPhone on all carriers based on the legacy GSM and CDMAone in four years....that's really thinking pretty far out, and also it's not like Verizon will trash EVDO and flip the switch on LTE all in a single day.

I totally agree with you. I prob misunderstood your post. Yeah they def arent going to shut down EVDO overnight, they pump billions a yr to upgrade/maintnance the network. And also agree about the iphone in 4 yrs, lol, we dont know what to except of the next version except for 3G. ;)

[FFR]

But I think that he's jumping to conclusions by saying that Apple will release their 4G iPhone on all carriers based on the legacy GSM and CDMAone in four years....that's really thinking pretty far out, and also it's not like Verizon will trash EVDO and flip the switch on LTE all in a single day.

What conclusion?
Apple and at&t have a five your exclusive contract, By the time the contract is up verizon will be a gsm carrier. Why would they even think about cdma

the time frame for the switch is 2 to 3 years, not overnight. as i said VERIZON IS SWITCHING to gsm.
you said:
All Verizon did was side with a 4G standard that is usually related with GSM. That is hardly at all confirmation that they're switching to GSM and its related standards and successors.

[iMacZealot]

What conclusion?
Apple and at&t have a five your exclusive contract, By the time the contract is up verizon will be a gsm carrier. Why would they even think about cdma

the time frame for the switch is 2 to 3 years, not overnight. as i said VERIZON IS SWITCHING to gsm.
you said:

You're not reading my responses carefully. I said that the switch would *not* be overnight, that it would take several years.

I was wrong about the LTE stuff. Verizon is switching to that standard. What I mean by jumping to conclusions is that it's impossible to tell what Apple will be doing five years from now, let alone five weeks from now at Macworld. There are also many more factors than simply the technology standards the iPhone uses. I would imagine that politics sets the tone for much of the course of potential relations between Apple and Verizon.

[hankolerd]

I am not going to go through 5 pages of posts, so sorry if this has already been said.

If I remember right, AT&T has a 2 year contract with the iPhone, once that is up, other carriers will be able to sell it, as long as they can come to terms with apple.

Verizon was the first company that Apple approached about the iPhone, but Verizon turned down Apple because they could not come to terms. In fact the CEO of Verizon said that the iPhone was not going to have big enough of an impact on the mobile market to invest in it.

I am sure if a company can come to terms with Apple though, that Apple will help them by modifying hardware if they have to(if it is reasonable), to get it to work for the carrier.

If Apple want to succeed in the mobile market like they did in the mp3 market than they will have to get their product to as many carriers as they can, and I think they know that.:apple:

[mets1125]

If I remember right, AT&T has a 2 year contract with the iPhone, once that is up, other carriers will be able to sell it, as long as they can come to terms with apple.




Apple has stated that they have a multi year deal with ATT. I have not seen 2 years anywhere, most people say its a 5 year deal.

[iMacZealot]

If I remember right, AT&T has a 2 year contract with the iPhone, once that is up, other carriers will be able to sell it, as long as they can come to terms with apple. Like the person above said, nobody knows for sure how long their agreement is.

Verizon was the first company that Apple approached about the iPhone, but Verizon turned down Apple because they could not come to terms.That is yet another thing we don't know for sure. All we know is that Verizon turned them down, and not that Apple necessarily went to them first. From a business point of view, it would be postulated that the approached many carriers simultaneously.

I am sure if a company can come to terms with Apple though, that Apple will help them by modifying hardware if they have to(if it is reasonable), to get it to work for the carrier.There's certainly more to it than just getting it to work on the network. The mobile phone industry deals with a lot of politicking.

[DiamondMac]

Sister has verizon and asked me this today so I thought I would bump it up for any new information

Reading the last page or two, I see none. :(

[BelTelMel]

Apple iPhone on AT&T for five years?
Posted May 22nd 2007 1:53PM by Ryan Block
Filed under: Cellphones

There are carrier exclusivity agreements, and there are carrier exclusivity agreements -- and Apple's iPhone deal must have been pretty sweet for Cupertino to guarantee their new hotness to AT&T and AT&T alone for five friggin years. USA Today reports the supposed half-decade deal precludes Apple from developing a CDMA handset in that time (duh), meaning that if you live in the US and don't want to move to AT&T, it's going to be 2012 before you even have a chance at an iPhone. Better still, Today reports that Cingular's arch-nemesis Verizon is claiming to have an iPhone-killer in the wings. According to Denny Strigl, Verizon CEO, "We do have a very good response in the mill. You'll see that from us in the late summer." It's war, people, make no mistake about it.

Here is the link:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/22/apple-iphone-on-atandt-for-five-years/

[rhambick]

is there any way you can use an iphone for verizon?

[iMacZealot]

is there any way you can use an iphone for verizon?

No; not at this time.

[Chriskotkowski]

Sure verizon cripples some phones but its not like u see get it now on the treos or any blackberry they have or anything so screw you all verizon wouldnt put that on the iphone ... and also verizon turned down the iphone and decided not to take it so apple went to ATT .... apple knew that verizon has way better service and has the better internet possibilities on cell phones

[kdarling]

Verizon does not cripple the UIs on their smartphones.

The reason they change other phones is because they had the idea that it's easier for people if every phone has the same menus. Good concept, but perhaps poor execution, limited by number of keys, of course.

As for Apple, they approached Verizon after starting talks with Cingular, perhaps with the idea of being on both networks. So the phone could easily have ended up with both GSM and CDMA models, as do others.

After a year of off/on talks, Verizon finally said no to the terms Apple wanted. Mostly they didn't like Apple controlling all sales and repairs. Verizon didn't think it was fair to their retailers like BJ's if only Apple/Verizon stores could carry the phone, for example.

Once Verizon turned them down, Apple went back to Cingular and signed a long-term exclusive deal, something Cingular (now AT&T) is rightfully smug about. Good deal for them.

[uPhone]

you can cancel verizon and swtich without etf...

you need to do it before march 2nd

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=712366

I did it and canceled 4 lines.. took a bit of arguing

[pab277]

its verzion's fault for rejecting the iPhone to begin with (or i have heard). And if Apple does happen to switch to CDMA, it wont be for another 3 or so years since Apple and AT&T have an exclusive contract binding them together to an extent of time.

[skaterxx]

indeed, I want to switch to T-Mobile though (Cingular is almost as bad as Verizon minus the crippling phones part). Hopefully Verizon's SMS price hike can get me off w/o etf

Um actually verizon and at&t have the best service and t mobile seriously has the worst they don't even have 3G how lame

[runningcameron]

Hi, my name's Cameron and I'm new to posting but I've been reading these forums for quite a while. I normally wouldn't post anything, but it's driving me insane to listen to people act like Verizon made a poor decision in turing down Apple. My dad works for Verizon and was involved in talks about 3 years ago that went on with Apple regarding their new phone. Apple approached Verizon prior to approaching AT&T because of its superior network; particularly its extensive EVDO coverage. Weather people like or not, Verizon's 3G network is literally years ahead of AT&T in terms of market penetration. Verizon really wanted to carry the iPhone, but Apple's demands were insane.

Verizon would have to give 20% of subscribed iPhone's monthly fares to Apple. We all knew that was a factor. However, what people don't understand is that Apple demanded that Verizon shut down its V-CAST services prior to the launch of the iPhone. Verizon compromised and agreed to a 16% deal, but refused to shut down its V-CAST services, so Apple left for AT&T. Period. The End. And Verizon valiantly responded with it's iPhone killer the Ahmazing LG Voyager!!!11!! (lmao)

Now, I'm a HUGE apple fan. I own an iMac, Macbook, iPod Touch, and am considering a switch to AT&T to get the 3G iPhone when it's released. However, I couldn't help but throw this all out there when so many people were posting bull they simply can't back up.

[lostprophet894]

[QUOTE=pianoman;3274990]same here. i'm in the Washington, D.C. area.



So what's the problem? I'm in the DC area and I don't think I've ever gone below three bars. AT&T has spectacular coverage in the DC Metro area.

[maccigar]

very good story line....

interesting scam and there are actually bidders....

APPLE IPHONE UNLOCKED FOR VERIZON

[DialloM]

[QUOTE=pianoman;3274990]same here. i'm in the Washington, D.C. area.



So what's the problem? I'm in the DC area and I don't think I've ever gone below three bars. AT&T has spectacular coverage in the DC Metro area.

AT&T is expensive, TMOBILE has the sooooo much better coverage than verizon in the DC area, I havent gone below 4 bars. I don't know if it is the iPhone or the GSM call quality but I can hear people so much clearer ever since I switch to tmobile

[7on]

Um actually verizon and at&t have the best service and t mobile seriously has the worst they don't even have 3G how lame

Service as in "Customer Service". I'd rather have good prices and excellent people skills that a provider who gets bills wrong and are impersonal. I have T-mobile now and every praise that you read of them is true. True they don't have 3G yet, but they will by 2008's end.

Somethings are better than being "the biggest and baddest".

[butterfly0fdoom]

its verzion's fault for rejecting the iPhone to begin with (or i have heard). And if Apple does happen to switch to CDMA, it wont be for another 3 or so years since Apple and AT&T have an exclusive contract binding them together to an extent of time.

Apple doesn't need to switch to CDMA for Verizon. Verizon's switching to GSM/LTE for 4G.

[Stang68]

Apple doesn't need to switch to CDMA for Verizon. Verizon's switching to GSM/LTE for 4G.

Really? well that could be good news for all of us hoping for an iPhone in June on Verizon!

[mets1125]

Really? well that could be good news for all of us hoping for an iPhone in June on Verizon!

The switch is not going to happen for at least another 3-4 years. Vzw has not said if LTE will be used for voice, it might just be on the data side only.

[ncavs10]

when i first looked into getting the iphone, i wanted it on verizon but switched anyway, and now i have no problem with AT&T.

[butterfly0fdoom]

The switch is not going to happen for at least another 3-4 years. Vzw has not said if LTE will be used for voice, it might just be on the data side only.

Considering the costs of perpetually having dual LTE/EV-DO phones and networks, it makes more sense for Verizon to phase out EV-DO completely.

[3247]

Considering the costs of perpetually having dual LTE/EV-DO phones and networks, it makes more sense for Verizon to phase out EV-DO completely.Given that virtually all UMTS phones are dual GSM/UMTS phones, it's unlikely that LTE phones will drop GSM and UMTS support. However, GSM, UMTS and LTE are compatible (e.g. they use the same SIM card, there's handover, etc.) and the GSM/UMTS family is supported in every country (there's GSM everywhere except in Japan and South Korea, which do have UMTS).

[TEG]

(there's GSM everywhere except in Japan and South Korea, which do have UMTS).

UMTS is actually GSM (although the encoding is CDMA), the only thing that Japan and ROK have done is turned off the 2G networks.

TEG

[Ori Blum]

I have verizon and hope they eventually get the iphone (although i probably won't be able to afford it) but knowing verizon, it will probably be 5 years until they get it. Almost every carrier had the razr before verizon did.
Cingular always gets the best phones first :(
IMO verizon has the best network, but the worst phones.

5 years is exactly right (well, 5 years from the June '07 release). See http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2007-05-21-at&t-iphone_N.htm .

I don't know the terms of the contract or consequences of an Apple breach -- anyone know more about this or similar (I know, I know: iPhone can't be compared...) agreements with such a 5-yr term?

- Ori Blum

[butterfly0fdoom]

Given that virtually all UMTS phones are dual GSM/UMTS phones, it's unlikely that LTE phones will drop GSM and UMTS support. However, GSM, UMTS and LTE are compatible (e.g. they use the same SIM card, there's handover, etc.) and the GSM/UMTS family is supported in every country (there's GSM everywhere except in Japan and South Korea, which do have UMTS).

Korea actually dominantly uses CDMA, not GSM. I'm not even sure if they HAVE any GSM carriers.

LTE isn't exactly compatible with UTMS and GSM per se just as UTMS isn't exactly compatible with GSM. 3G phones that support 2G still have both GSM and UTMS radios as the underlying radio is different. They are implemented in a way that uses SIM cards because the GSM Association decided to use UTMS as the 3G solution, just as LTE is the 4G solution.

[alekona]

The simple answer: No. The long of it: I went in to upgrade back in November and they tried to sell me the voyager or the venus (can't remember; the one similar to the iphone) and I said no I'd rather have the iphone. The guy said that Apple went to Verizon first and they said no because they didn't like how the whole warranty issue would be played out. I think that's kind of stupid. But what do I know.

[Mr Bean]

Verizon does not get the best phones and most likley will not get the iPhone for one reason. Money! Verizon has always and will always be one step behind when it comes to hardware because they go with the cheapest to buy and the equipment that offers greatest profit margin. We verizon user suffer thru it because they have one of the best networks. I have a RAZR Still and there is not one verizon phone that I am excited to switch to. Verizons sad attempt to compete with the iPhone (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=3299) is the stupidest thing ever! Also does anyone else notice how much it looks like the (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=3056). Ok so it has a smal touch screen on the front whoo hoo. Personally I think Verizon is to big for it's own good. :p And as always this is one man's opinion so DO NOT take this as fact and or suggestion! :p

[Mr Bean]

How did this become 5 pages? GSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gsm) & CDMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdma) very different technologies.

Yes BUT CDMA of the rack chips can be bought and placed into the iPhone (http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=2761). It's not impossible.

[TJames]

ModNote™: This post is the OP of a merged thread. --mkrishnan

Hey guys, i'm new to MacRumors, but anyway, i was just wondering if there was any talk of a Verizon iPhone? My phone service is verizon, and i really want to get an iPhone. I heard they are releasing a whole new iphone for verizon, is this true? thanks guys.

[brinycbri]

I highly doubt it. They have focused on GSM which Verizon does not use, and I doubt they would change that

[TheMasin9]

Verizon had their chance, they wanted to put all kinds of restrictions on it, apple moved on to AT&T. Sucks to be Verizon, stuck with your closed interface....

[CreativeMac]

That is completely untrue. Plus, it's almost surely never going to happen.

Here's why:

1) Apple and AT&T have an exclusive agreement for five years. This means the current iPhone and all the upcoming iPhone models will all be under AT&T (in the US - till 2012 or so).

2) Apple had talks with Verizon to be the official US carrier and were turned down - in fact I believe the Verizon execs laughed at Steve Jobs with the amount of income and freedom of design and cost he wanted. You think he's going to go to them again?

3) The current iPhone works only on GSM networks. Verizon is CDMA based. If Verizon somehow got the iPhone, that would mean a complete shift of iPhone's roadmap.

There are, I'm sure, plenty more reasons the other guys here might know about.

THE REAL SOLUTION: Switch to AT&T when the next-gen iPhone comes out in June (or sometime around then)! :D

-CreativeMac :apple::apple:

[kdarling]

At no time has anyone from Apple or Verizon given such histories.

According to the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117168001288511981-euxzmjNFZTZhA_2z8OBtD6GK900_20070224.html?mod=blogs)and others, Apple went to Verizon _after_ approaching Cingular (ATT).

Talks with Verizon dragged on for about a year. When they finally realized they'd never come to an agreement, they parted ways. Then Apple went back to ATT and agreed to an exclusive.

The reasons Verizon gave included (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-verizon-iphone_x.htm?POE=TECISVA): they didn't want to give up their own media sales; they didn't want to give up control over warranty work; they couldn't agree to cutting their current sales partners (BJs, Best Buy, etc) out of the picture. All very understandable business reasons.

[butterfly0fdoom]

Yeah, people, stop taking as though AT&T was Apple's second choice. IIRC, Apple engaged European carriers simultaneously for each country.

[zainjetha]

No they wouldnt just do it for a single CDMA carrier when all others are GSM.

[TravisReynolds]

they have one, its called the voyager. And it sucks rear end:cool:

[zainjetha]

HAHAAHAHA Verizon LG Voyager....

Cant even compete with iPhone.. They best quit while they ahead...
Good one Trav

[stockscalper]

Verizon is a control freak; they have to put their crappy interface on all phones they sell. What they demanded just didn't jive with Apple's plans and Apple went elsewhere. They gave their parent company Vodaphone a shot at getting back in the game when they opened up the European market. And Apple got the same treatment. I'm guessing they're pretty much finished with trying to do business with Verizon/Vodaphone.

[zainjetha]

will never happen... apple have already signed their exclusive agreement with AT&T SO NOOOOO

[kdarling]

Verizon is a control freak; they have to put their crappy interface on all phones they sell. What they demanded just didn't jive with Apple's plans and Apple went elsewhere.

Errr... no. The exact opposite happened.

Apple was the "control freak" (and still is, with other carriers). They wanted a monthly royalty, complete control over price and warranty issues, control over app, ringtones, music and video downloads, and control over where the phone was sold. They even refused to allow subsidized prices.

Verizon said no, as have other carriers since then. Currently, China's major telecom is saying no way to Apple royalties.

(Btw, Verizon doesn't muck with most of their smartphone interfaces.)

[butterfly0fdoom]

.....China sent one representative to Apple's campus once. Hardly a negotiation, even.

Apple clearly isn't as stringent about subsidized prices now as they used to be, though, given the prices in Europe.

Both Verizon and Apple are control freaks. Not exactly a good foundation for a relationship.

[kdarling]

China Mobile is reporting that they have 600,000 iPhone users already... without any contract... so they don't see much reason to pay Apple royalties.

Both Verizon and Apple are control freaks. Not exactly a good foundation for a relationship.

Heh. So true.

[Mr Bean]

Personally I am flooding verizon Customer service email once a week with question and request for either the iPhone or something close and NOT the Voyager(Joke) they they have now. :D

[Mr Bean]

Errr... no. The exact opposite happened.

Apple was the "control freak" (and still is, with other carriers). They wanted a monthly royalty, complete control over price and warranty issues, control over app, ringtones, music and video downloads, and control over where the phone was sold. They even refused to allow subsidized prices.

Verizon said no, as have other carriers since then. Currently, China's major telecom is saying no way to Apple royalties.

(Btw, Verizon doesn't muck with most of their smartphone interfaces.)

:eek: Good point because most of there smartphones are Windows Mobile or Blackberry based right? So why could'nt they come to an agreement with Apple? And for those who don't know you cannot buy ALL of the phone's that verizon offers at BB or CC etc. And so what if Apple want's control over downloads I use iTunes and think it's a great system. User freindy and there downloads cost just as much as Get it Now from Verizon.

[JML42691]

Personally I am flooding verizon Customer service email once a week with question and request for either the iPhone or something close and NOT the Voyager(Joke) they they have now. :D
But what do you hope to achieve by doing this? Apple has a contract with AT&T regarding the iPhone and how it can't be used on other networks and how Apple will only sell it to AT&T, there is not really anything that Verizon can do about it, all you are going to do is to get your email placed on a block list by Verizon, if they even care to do anything like that.

[extraextra]

:eek: So why could'nt they come to an agreement with Apple? .

We don't know all of the details of what happened behind closed doors with Apple and Verizon, but as it stands now, Apple is exclusively with AT&T for the next 5 years (2007-2012). There's not much you can do about it, and constantly e-mailing Verizon isn't going to do anything.

[Mr Bean]

But what do you hope to achieve by doing this? Apple has a contract with AT&T regarding the iPhone and how it can't be used on other networks and how Apple will only sell it to AT&T, there is not really anything that Verizon can do about it, all you are going to do is to get your email placed on a block list by Verizon, if they even care to do anything like that.

We don't know all of the details of what happened behind closed doors with Apple and Verizon, but as it stands now, Apple is exclusively with AT&T for the next 5 years (2007-2012). There's not much you can do about it, and constantly e-mailing Verizon isn't going to do anything.

As stated in my email iPhone or something like it!!! Well know the Voyager is a Joke. A sad attempt by verizon to compete with one of the top electronics of that year. I think we all know Apple/Verizon will not and can not offer the iPone to verizon customers but something better than the voyager. By stating the iPhone by name lets them know what kind of phone I am looking for. If AT&T did not suck so hard I would just switch. No skin of my back but there network "In my area" sucks and as far as cNet is concerned they where like 3rd overall.even alltel beet them. And I am not only blameing Verizon. I am sure Apple played there part as well.

[anmoldagreat]

i doubt verizon even cares much
they just won the fcc 700mhz auction and are going to be the number one cell company in the world in a very short time with their new found range.

and they are going to open up their handsets in november of this year. im sure the iphone will be able to hop on to a verizon network at that time, no problem.

personally as nice as the iphone is. it is over hyped. ill probably just pick up an htc touch to go along with my ipod touch and call it good.
putting too much reliance on one product is never really a good idea anyway.

[rjohnstone]

i doubt verizon even cares much
they just won the fcc 700mhz auction and are going to be the number one cell company in the world in a very short time with their new found range.

and they are going to open up their handsets in november of this year. im sure the iphone will be able to hop on to a verizon network at that time, no problem.

personally as nice as the iphone is. it is over hyped. ill probably just pick up an htc touch to go along with my ipod touch and call it good.
putting too much reliance on one product is never really a good idea anyway.
That 700 Mhz range is US only, not global. AT&T also won a piece of that pie as well. ;)
The FCC is a US entity, not a global one, so they cannot assign anything outside the US. So I fail to see how this will make VZ a bigger player in the global market.
And VZ is opening their network up to other CDMA phones that meet their requirements to be on their network.
Read press releases, don't just skim them. :rolleyes:

[anmoldagreat]

That 700 Mhz range is US only, not global. AT&T also won a piece of that pie as well. ;)
The FCC is a US entity, not a global one, so they cannot assign anything outside the US. So I fail to see how this will make VZ a bigger player in the global market.
And VZ is opening their network up to other CDMA phones that meet their requirements to be on their network.
Read press releases, don't just skim them. :rolleyes:

yeh i meant to say us. cell companies vary far too much outside of the states for any one company to make a huge presence.
and i heard that they were not only going to release specs for their own cdma network but also allow gsm phones.
maybe i heard incorrectly though...

[Mr Bean]

i doubt verizon even cares much
they just won the fcc 700mhz auction and are going to be the number one cell company in the world in a very short time with their new found range.

and they are going to open up their handsets in november of this year. im sure the iphone will be able to hop on to a verizon network at that time, no problem.

personally as nice as the iphone is. it is over hyped. ill probably just pick up an htc touch to go along with my ipod touch and call it good.
putting too much reliance on one product is never really a good idea anyway.

Sorry but I have no Idea what you are talking about? What does 700mhz help me as a verizon customer and how would this allow a GSM phone to work on CDMA network? And once again. The CDMA chip can be intigrated into the iPhone to work on the CDMA network but you could not activate it with verizon.

[Mykbibby]

I would really consider buying it in a heartbeat if it was on verizon.

You would really consider buying it, or you would buy it in a heartbeat?

Kind of contradicts itself...

[JBaker122586]

China Mobile is reporting that they have 600,000 iPhone users already... without any contract... so they don't see much reason to pay Apple royalties.


Lol.
They're reporting lies then.

[kdarling]

Lol.
They're reporting lies then.

And your reasoning is?

Everyone knows that back in February, ATT had only activated around 2 million phones, at the same time that Apple has reported sales of 3.7 million. That left 1.7 million, many of which are unlocked. Certainly more now.

And there are huge articles about the mass trade in iPhones going back to China.

[boy102789]

There is a group of nerds here in Phx Az who make Verizon iphones for $ 500 not including the phone i have used one these phones the features are the same except that the vcast is used as the internet. I am not sure of the full process but i do know it involvers parts from a Verizon voyager and is fairly simple to i do. They also do memory upgrades.

[CaryMacGuy]

I think that the day of creating a wireless device for a specific carrier is coming to an end. One day every phone sold and used will use the same technology. Carriers will not lock down features of the phone and all will be good.

We don't have to use a specific telephone for one land line company and another for another company...everything just works.

[PoitNarf]

There is a group of nerds here in Phx Az who make Verizon iphones for $ 500 not including the phone i have used one these phones the features are the same except that the vcast is used as the internet. I am not sure of the full process but i do know it involvers parts from a Verizon voyager and is fairly simple to i do. They also do memory upgrades.

I call total BS on this.

[Applejuiced]

you are completely clueless......



yeh i meant to say us. cell companies vary far too much outside of the states for any one company to make a huge presence.
and i heard that they were not only going to release specs for their own cdma network but also allow gsm phones.
maybe i heard incorrectly though...

[Applejuiced]

More nonsense from verizon customers. They just dont get it or refuse to give up hope!!!!!!!

I call total BS on this.

[7on]

That 700 Mhz range is US only, not global. AT&T also won a piece of that pie as well. ;)
The FCC is a US entity, not a global one, so they cannot assign anything outside the US. So I fail to see how this will make VZ a bigger player in the global market.
And VZ is opening their network up to other CDMA phones that meet their requirements to be on their network.
Read press releases, don't just skim them. :rolleyes:

Isn't T-mobile the biggest carrier worldwide? or is that Virgin? One of the two I think.

[PoitNarf]

More nonsense from verizon customers. They just dont get it or refuse to give up hope!!!!!!!

I can only see Verizon + iPhone happening once they start deploying TLE with the spectrum they won in the 700Mhz auction. But that's probably 2 to 3 years away.

[Merlosso]

There is a group of nerds here in Phx Az who make Verizon iphones for $ 500 not including the phone i have used one these phones the features are the same except that the vcast is used as the internet. I am not sure of the full process but i do know it involvers parts from a Verizon voyager and is fairly simple to i do. They also do memory upgrades.

I've heard about these guys. It's really advanced stuff they are doing. I don't want to be the one blamed for giving away their secrets so you didn't hear this from me. Here's how it's done:


Bob goes to the Apple Store and buys an iPhone
Bob goes to Phoenix and hands over his new, unopened iPhone to the above mentioned "group of nerds"
Bob is instructed to return in 24 hours

The "group of nerds" perform the highly technical steps below. Don't worry if you don't understand this techy mumbo jumbo. All that is important is that Bob will have a Verizon iPhone in the end.

Nerd A goes to Craig's List and searches for an unactivated new or used (either will work) LG Voyager
While Nerd A is making the purchase, Nerd B heads to the mall and finds the kiosk where they sell custom stickers
Nerd B buys a small Apple logo and "iPhone" in small text
Nerd A and Nerd B meet back at the secret Nerd Cave and meet Nerd C
Nerd C ever so carefully applies the stickers to the back of the Voyager
During the application of the stickers by Nerd C, Nerds A and B burn the box and all documentation that came with the Voyager
After the stickers have been applied, Nerd C begins the delicate task of gluing the phone shut so that you don't find the keyboard inside (the discovery of a keyboard might make Bob think that something is not right)
Nerds A and B then carefully open the real iPhone, hide it, and then put the "Verizon iPhone" in the box

The memory upgrade is far too complicated to describe here but it involves what's known as a "Micro SD Card". This of course is an extra charge for the card and installation.

When Bob returns the next day, he brings his $500 and picks up his new Verizon iPhone. He then calls Verizon, activates his phone, and enjoys having an iPhone on the Verizon network. Bob then laughs at all the suckers who paid the ETF to get out of their Verizon contract and switched to AT&T.

*Note: the names have been changed to protect the identities of the individual nerds and Bob is a fictional representation of one of the customers using the services of the group of nerds.

:rolleyes:

[mkrishnan]

I've heard about these guys.

We like you. You can stay. :D

[question fear]

Merlosso, that was possibly the funniest thing I read all day. Well done!

Next you have to expose the "iPod nanos" you can buy on Canal St in NYC!

[acarle208]

At&t has a 5 year exclusive contract.

Nice Merlosso, i like it!

[butterfly0fdoom]

I think that the day of creating a wireless device for a specific carrier is coming to an end. One day every phone sold and used will use the same technology. Carriers will not lock down features of the phone and all will be good.

We don't have to use a specific telephone for one land line company and another for another company...everything just works.

The only way that system of choosing the phone and carrier independently can occur is if Sprint and Alltel join AT&T, T-Mobile, and (in 3 years) Verizon in the GSM camp. Besides, current GSM devices are loosely customized (switching the universal "internet" button with a T or a globe; for AT&T, adding Media.net and CV apps; for T-mobile, adding MyFaves and (insert T-mobile's cellular internet name) apps). It's the CDMA phones that are more custom-tailored for the carriers, especially current Verizon phones.

[SkippyThorson]

Verizon might get it, but honestly I doubt it and the world will be a better place if they don't.

Amen.

[Outsiderdude26]

FTE is basically what both AT&T and Verizion will be using 'soon' and by soon I mean 2010-2012

Maybe then Verzion might have the iPhone. Seeing that both companies share the same technology there won't be a reason to make two different models, one for GSM/EDGE/HSDA and one for CDMA.

[butterfly0fdoom]

FTE is basically what both AT&T and Verizion will be using 'soon' and by soon I mean 2010-2012

Maybe then Verzion might have the iPhone. Seeing that both companies share the same technology there won't be a reason to make two different models, one for GSM/EDGE/HSDA and one for CDMA.

1) IIRC, it's LTE, not FTE (unless it's a regional language/vernacular difference)
2) The iPhone will never be on Verizon. Why? Because Apple and Verizon have big egos and will never get along. They didn't get along the first time around; what makes you think it'll happen a second time?

[Outsiderdude26]

1) IIRC, it's LTE, not FTE (unless it's a regional language/vernacular difference)
2) The iPhone will never be on Verizon. Why? Because Apple and Verizon have big egos and will never get along. They didn't get along the first time around; what makes you think it'll happen a second time?

Sorry, it is LTE.

Mind you, this is speculation.... that is why I used maybe. I was just pointing out that the two biggest telecom companies in the US are going to be using the same 4G technology and there might be a possibility.

Apple is like any company that wants to sell as much as they can, adding another service provider would helped them sell their phone to those that won't switch due to brand loyalty or because of that is the service their employer uses.

I truly don't care I switched from Verizon to At&t last summer and yet to have any complains about either company.

[boy102789]

You can call it BS all you want but i only believed it after i used it. The guy who actually does it works at the a Kiosk that installs Ghost Armor on phones in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe Az 85283. I talked with him he will do it for 500 and he told me how he actually buys new voyagers and guts them to make them. you should give him a call if u dont believe me i think he is the manager of the kiosk so it wouldn't be that hard to get in touch with him. Hes not the only one out there with one also. He says there at least 200-300 more just like his.

[Applejuiced]

and then you woke up :D

[butterfly0fdoom]

Sorry, it is LTE.

Mind you, this is speculation.... that is why I used maybe. I was just pointing out that the two biggest telecom companies in the US are going to be using the same 4G technology and there might be a possibility.

Apple is like any company that wants to sell as much as they can, adding another service provider would helped them sell their phone to those that won't switch due to brand loyalty or because of that is the service their employer uses.

I truly don't care I switched from Verizon to At&t last summer and yet to have any complains about either company.

Well, if Apple truly does go with the "choose your carrier" format in Europe and it pays off, we may see it here as well. But I wouldn't expect to see visual voicemail on Verizon or T-mobile if Apple went that route.

[Roy Hobbs]

Regardless if the choose your carrier option, I don't see Apple making 2 versions of the iPhone (GSM and CDMA)

Verizon won't be getting an iPhone anytime soon

[Roy Hobbs]

You can call it BS all you want but i only believed it after i used it. The guy who actually does it works at the a Kiosk that installs Ghost Armor on phones in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe Az 85283. I talked with him he will do it for 500 and he told me how he actually buys new voyagers and guts them to make them. you should give him a call if u dont believe me i think he is the manager of the kiosk so it wouldn't be that hard to get in touch with him. Hes not the only one out there with one also. He says there at least 200-300 more just like his.

Regardless of what this guy does he is not selling Verizon iPhones. It is at most a bastardized version which IS NOT an iPhone

[rjohnstone]

You can call it BS all you want but i only believed it after i used it. The guy who actually does it works at the a Kiosk that installs Ghost Armor on phones in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe Az 85283. I talked with him he will do it for 500 and he told me how he actually buys new voyagers and guts them to make them. you should give him a call if u dont believe me i think he is the manager of the kiosk so it wouldn't be that hard to get in touch with him. Hes not the only one out there with one also. He says there at least 200-300 more just like his.
Oh really... go take a picture of one. Better yet, a video of them making one.
I'd love to know what "parts" they claim to be pulling from a Voyager to stick into an iPhone.
Sure as hell ain't the CDMA radio as the iPhone firmware, baseband and OS do not support the hardware or any CDMA comm protocols.
There are so many things they would have to recode and redesign that it would not be cost effective.

Complete and total BS. Someone is yanking your chain hardcore.

[Mr Bean]

Not now nor will it be any time soon avalible on the verizon network. Get used to it! If you want one that bad switch to one of the crapiest network around and get yourself one. I have verizon and want the iPhone but to bad for me I can't and there is no way I am switching to AT&T to get it. Maybe someday Verizon will be able to combine nice phone's to go with there great service, but for now we deal with lousy phone's with good service. That's the traid off I guess.

[Applejuiced]

AT&T is not the crappiest network. Depending on the location its just as good and times better than verizon. Along with their junk phones and vcast crap

[Merlosso]

You can call it BS all you want but i only believed it after i used it. The guy who actually does it works at the a Kiosk that installs Ghost Armor on phones in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe Az 85283. I talked with him he will do it for 500 and he told me how he actually buys new voyagers and guts them to make them. you should give him a call if u dont believe me i think he is the manager of the kiosk so it wouldn't be that hard to get in touch with him. Hes not the only one out there with one also. He says there at least 200-300 more just like his.

I apologize if I was harsh in my earlier post. When you said "group of nerds" I didn't realize you meant one guy that works a kiosk in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe AZ 85283. I thought you were talking about a group of engineers with full time jobs and I thought "there's no way highly educated, highly paid, incredibly smart engineers would have time or the desire to do this". Now that you've given us more detail, I can see how one guy that works part-time at a kiosk in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe AZ 85283 would have plenty of spare time and the necessary resources (both financial and technical) to pull this off.

Can you give us the mailing address for the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe AZ 85283? I'm want to ship him my iPhone, a Voyager, and $500 in cash tomorrow.

[Applejuiced]

LMAO :D
:p:p:p:D

I apologize if I was harsh in my earlier post. When you said "group of nerds" I didn't realize you meant one guy that works a kiosk in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe AZ 85283. I thought you were talking about a group of engineers with full time jobs and I thought "there's no way highly educated, highly paid, incredibly smart engineers would have time or the desire to do this". Now that you've given us more detail, I can see how one guy that works part-time at a kiosk in the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe AZ 85283 would have plenty of spare time and the necessary resources (both financial and technical) to pull this off.

Can you give us the mailing address for the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe AZ 85283? I'm want to ship him my iPhone, a Voyager, and $500 in cash tomorrow.

[rjohnstone]

AT&T is not the crappiest network. Depending on the location its just as good and times better than verizon. Along with their junk phones and vcast crap
I couldn't agree more.
Verizon has horrible service here in NE Phoenix. I had a Verizon phone that was provided to me for work purposes and the only way I could make a phone call at home was to go outside. Had several different models swapped out, but it still sucked. My company has since replaced it with an AT&T phone.

My AT&T signal is crystal clear everywhere I go.

So to say one is better than the other is purely subjective.

[volsfan]

i called them to ask if they could activate a iphone for me and they said they will be able to by the end of 2008

[Niiro13]

Doesn't Apple have a 5 year contract with AT&T? So that means that the earliest they will get CMDA (if at all) would be 2012?

[Me1000]

They lied!

and no one knows how long the contract is with at&t, that was just the most likely estimate...

I honestly dont think you will ever see a CDMA iPhone...

[Niiro13]

They lied!

and no one knows how long the contract is with at&t, that was just the most likely estimate...

I honestly dont think you will ever see a CDMA iPhone...

Ahhh.



Anyway, I agree. To draw up new plans and start building a CMDA iPhone would probably not be worth it in the large picture. If you really wanted it, you would switch.

[JBaker122586]

i called them to ask if they could activate a iphone for me and they said they will be able to by the end of 2008

Haha, don't believe them.

[Applejuiced]

LMAO :D

i called them to ask if they could activate a iphone for me and they said they will be able to by the end of 2008

[Mr Bean]

I couldn't agree more.
Verizon has horrible service here in NE Phoenix. I had a Verizon phone that was provided to me for work purposes and the only way I could make a phone call at home was to go outside. Had several different models swapped out, but it still sucked. My company has since replaced it with an AT&T phone.

My AT&T signal is crystal clear everywhere I go.

So to say one is better than the other is purely subjective.

Depends, because we do not get good service in the 18444 Zip Code in our area and Verizon is putting a new tower up 2009/2010 time frame to correct this issue. If you report "Problem Areas" to verizon they will research and take the best course of action they can to correct the issue. That said they CANNOT place a tower in an area that is covered by another carrier. (These are the words from the verizon tech I spoke to, not my own)

[question fear]

Depends, because we do not get good service in the 18444 Zip Code in our area and Verizon is putting a new tower up 2009/2010 time frame to correct this issue. If you report "Problem Areas" to verizon they will research and take the best course of action they can to correct the issue. That said they CANNOT place a tower in an area that is covered by another carrier. (These are the words from the verizon tech I spoke to, not my own)

Here's the thing. Verizon does not personally own every tower they utilize. There are companies that build, own, and maintain cell towers and Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc all rent space for their equipment. So this restriction could mean that only one CDMA carrier is allowed in a given area, but I thought Sprint and Verizon have roaming agreements...so that sounds to me like the tech was trying for an excuse.

[rjohnstone]

Here's the thing. Verizon does not personally own every tower they utilize. There are companies that build, own, and maintain cell towers and Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc all rent space for their equipment. So this restriction could mean that only one CDMA carrier is allowed in a given area, but I thought Sprint and Verizon have roaming agreements...so that sounds to me like the tech was trying for an excuse.
I agree completely.
A good friend of mine is a T-Mobile tower tech and said a lot of the carriers will not only share equipment, most will also share the physical tower.
They place multiple antennas on one tower if the radio equipment is not compatible with the other carrier.

[amac4me]

Doesn't Apple have a 5 year contract with AT&T? So that means that the earliest they will get CMDA (if at all) would be 2012?

Correct. Apple and AT&T signed an exclusive 5 year contract in the US prior to the launch of the iPhone in June 2007. On a side note, I have to wonder if Apple has an out clause. I would think that one was structured into the contract but I'm just speculating.

[seanick]

So, I've been watching this fun (and sometimes a little petty) conversation. I'm impressed that it's up to 9 pages!

Anyway, I thought I'd just chime in about an online petition going to the execs at Verizon about this issue... If anyone has any interest in signing it, that is.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/bring-the-iphone-to-verizon

Don't know that it'll do anything other than help communicate to VZW and to the media that the iPhone should be opened up, or that VZW made a mistake in turning it down. But, who knows.

[dehgenog]

So, I've been watching this fun (and sometimes a little petty) conversation. I'm impressed that it's up to 9 pages!

Anyway, I thought I'd just chime in about an online petition going to the execs at Verizon about this issue... If anyone has any interest in signing it, that is.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/verizoniphone/

Don't know that it'll do anything other than help communicate to VZW and to the media that the iPhone should be opened up, or that VZW made a mistake in turning it down. But, who knows.

So...the end result would be Verizon asking Apple to engineer a new SKU for them, for a single market?

[seanick]

So...the end result would be Verizon asking Apple to engineer a new SKU for them, for a single market?

The action is up to VZW. You guys have complained throughout this that VZW doesn't listen, it puts out bad products (or reduces them to nothing, feature-wise) etc. So, rather than just ranting about it I thought I'd share the link.

[Mr Bean]

So...the end result would be Verizon asking Apple to engineer a new SKU for them, for a single market?

If you care sign the petition if you don't care then don't. No reason to be smart about it. At least someone has taken the time to start one instead of complaining about it. Do I beleive it will happen? No way but I signed it to show my support.

[mets1125]

So...the end result would be Verizon asking Apple to engineer a new SKU for them, for a single market?


Its not a single market...Alone in the US there are more CDMA users than GSM:CDMA (VZ-67 mil + Sprint 51 mil) compare to GSM (ATT 70 mil+ tmob 21 mil). I did not include smaller US cell comp. There are also other countries like China, Brazil, and a few more that use CDMA technology.

[11800506]

Well the iPhone will eventually have to transition to LTE because AT&T will use it, so when that happens if Apple still has an exclusive contract with AT&T then you could probably unlock it and put it on Verizon's network. Then again, it will be awhile, but its more likely than Apple making a CDMA iPhone.

EDIT: I see others have already brought this up. So yeah...

[The Toon Master]

That would win, because 95% of the people in the school I go to have Verizon, and if I have to spend over 100 dollars for a decent phone (which looks like i'll have to at this point), i'd rather spend it on an apple product. Of course it never would happen unless hell froze over/iPhone unlocked

[butterfly0fdoom]

Its not a single market...Alone in the US there are more CDMA users than GSM:CDMA (VZ-67 mil + Sprint 51 mil) compare to GSM (ATT 70 mil+ tmob 21 mil). I did not include smaller US cell comp. There are also other countries like China, Brazil, and a few more that use CDMA technology.

And yet there's a lot more that use GSM.

[Merlosso]

That would win, because 95% of the people in the school I go to have Verizon, and if I have to spend over 100 dollars for a decent phone (which looks like i'll have to at this point), i'd rather spend it on an apple product. Of course it never would happen unless hell froze over/iPhone unlocked

Most of my friends and family are with Verizon so it would be great to have an iPhone with Verizon but even if hell froze over and the iPhone was unlocked, it still would not work.

What's the problem? Can't we just sign an online petition to get Verizon to allow the iPhone on their network? The answer is NO, not unless a CDMA iPhone is developed.

The recently ended HD format war is an example of why this will not work. Consider this:

HD DVD disc + HD DVD player* = high definition video entertainment
Blu-Ray disc + Blu-Ray player* = high definition video entertainment

HD DVD disc + Blu-Ray player* = nothing at all
Blu-Ray disc + HD DVD player* = nothing at all

Now consider an unlocked iPhone with Verizon:

CDMA phone + CDMA network = successful phone calls and data transfer
GSM phone + GSM network = successful phone calls and data transfer

CDMA phone + GSM network = nothing at all
GSM phone (iPhone) + CDMA network (Verizon) = nothing at all

*Yes, I know there are combo HD DVD / Blu-Ray players. For the purpose of the analogy - explaining why the iPhone does not work with Verizon - I'm referring to single format players. Also, I'm not taking a side on which video format is better than the other, nor am I taking a side on which network is better than the other.

[mets1125]

And yet there's a lot more that use GSM.

I never said there wasnt more GSM users. I was just trying to say that CDMA was not a single market. I believe there are over 2 Billion GSM users worldwide. :eek:

[Mr Bean]

Most of my friends and family are with Verizon so it would be great to have an iPhone with Verizon but even if hell froze over and the iPhone was unlocked, it still would not work.

What's the problem? Can't we just sign an online petition to get Verizon to allow the iPhone on their network? The answer is NO, not unless a CDMA iPhone is developed.

The recently ended HD format war is an example of why this will not work. Consider this:

HD DVD disc + HD DVD player* = high definition video entertainment
Blu-Ray disc + Blu-Ray player* = high definition video entertainment

HD DVD disc + Blu-Ray player* = nothing at all
Blu-Ray disc + HD DVD player* = nothing at all

Now consider an unlocked iPhone with Verizon:

CDMA phone + CDMA network = successful phone calls and data transfer
GSM phone + GSM network = successful phone calls and data transfer

CDMA phone + GSM network = nothing at all
GSM phone (iPhone) + CDMA network (Verizon) = nothing at all

*Yes, I know there are combo HD DVD / Blu-Ray players. For the purpose of the analogy - explaining why the iPhone does not work with Verizon - I'm referring to single format players. Also, I'm not taking a side on which video format is better than the other, nor am I taking a side on which network is better than the other.

Nice but I don't think we need it explained AGAIN about the diffrence in the networks. I would hope by now we all would know. We also know that Apple would need to agree to greate a CDMA chiped iPhone in order for it to work. We also know that the chances of that are VERY slim, and yes we all know that Apple and AT&T signed some type of exclusive deal for atleast 5 years. We should also know that CONSUMERS drive the market! A company ceates a market and offer a product within that market we as consumers have to decide whether to buy that product. Guess what if no one buys that product then ** ding ding ** there is no market for it. If we buy that product than ** YEP YOU GUESSED IT ** there is a market for it. Nothing will change change unless us as consumers make a choice. If verizon looses enough customer to a rival because they offer a better product and/or harware then I would guess verizon may want to reconcider when/if the contract ends with AT&T. Verizon does not and will not care until they loose money because of it. And the HDDVD war was not fought or decided completly by consumers but we sure played our part and I saw your tag line and yes there where dual players but I do "THINK BUT NOT SURE" that there was 2 diffrent lasers for each format not one for both so your explination would still be valid.

[Stang68]

This is what is going to happen: Verizon will realize their dumbass mistake and give Apple half the money for the buyout of the contract with At&t. Of course this will al be very hush hush. I can definitely see that happening because it cannot be ignored that the iPhone is going to become the best smartphone after this summer is done.

[zmit]

for the record.... Australia have just cut their ONLY CDMA network...
for the reason that they have upgraded it to the 850mhz 3G network

*gasp* is Australia ahead of america??

[butterfly0fdoom]

Here's the most likely scenario. Apple will wait until Verizon completes their LTE rollout. By then, their exclusive agreement with AT&T will be nearly over and a 4G iPhone would be imminent (AT&T's roadmaps indicate an LTE roll-out slightly delayed relative to Verizon's), and then, it would be a more opportune moment to offer the iPhone on various carriers in the U.S.

[Applejuiced]

I dont see that happening either.
Verizon will not give apple the controll that they have with AT&T.
They sell their own music, ringtones, games, programs etc.. thru itunes
They have their own customer service line for iphone users and handle their own warranty work.
Verizon would want to add all their vcast and junk software on the phone and lock down the device and all its good features.


This is what is going to happen: Verizon will realize their dumbass mistake and give Apple half the money for the buyout of the contract with At&t. Of course this will al be very hush hush. I can definitely see that happening because it cannot be ignored that the iPhone is going to become the best smartphone after this summer is done.

[Merlosso]

Nice but I don't think we need it explained AGAIN about the diffrence in the networks. I would hope by now we all would know. We also know that Apple would need to agree to greate a CDMA chiped iPhone in order for it to work. We also know that the chances of that are VERY slim, and yes we all know that Apple and AT&T signed some type of exclusive deal for atleast 5 years. We should also know that CONSUMERS drive the market! A company ceates a market and offer a product within that market we as consumers have to decide whether to buy that product. Guess what if no one buys that product then ** ding ding ** there is no market for it. If we buy that product than ** YEP YOU GUESSED IT ** there is a market for it. Nothing will change change unless us as consumers make a choice. If verizon looses enough customer to a rival because they offer a better product and/or harware then I would guess verizon may want to reconcider when/if the contract ends with AT&T. Verizon does not and will not care until they loose money because of it. And the HDDVD war was not fought or decided completly by consumers but we sure played our part and I saw your tag line and yes there where dual players but I do "THINK BUT NOT SURE" that there was 2 diffrent lasers for each format not one for both so your explination would still be valid.

My point was not the outcome of the format war; my point was that one format would not work in the other player, just like one phone will not work on the other network. I've been following this and other threads about this topic and people keep coming in asking about this even though it has already been answered. I gave what I hoped to be an easy to understand explanation about why it won't work for those that might not understand the differences. If it did not come across that way, I apologize.

Anyway, many other phones models are made in a CDMA version and a GSM version and you never know what Apple will do next until Steve takes the stage. Its more likely that it won't happen for Verizon until the LTE rollout but we will just have to wait and see.

Like I said before, most of my family and friends are with Verizon and I too would love a Verizon iPhone. I will be first in line for a Verizon iPhone if the day ever comes. ;)

[seanick]

http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2007/06/the-verizon-guy.html

Interesting article... Of course, more about business decisions and why some of us fail to make the correct ones, but nonetheless, a good (and quick) read.

[john.macforums]

really what it comes down to is the bottom line. Verizon has opened up their network, and Apple is in business to make money. If all it requires is swapping out chips then i don't think the idea of an iPhone on the Verizon network is far fetched.

Of course there's the issue of the five year contract Apple has with Att. To that I say the money that will make from verizon customers will be 100 times more than what it would cost to opt out of their current contract with Att, so why not do it?

As for Verizon wanting to lock down the iPhone I say this, if it means keeping current customers, and possibly getting more, i'm sure they'll bend over backwards like Att.

I'm sure Jobs will do whatever it takes to drive the stock price up, so here's to a cdma iPhone in '08.

[question fear]

really what it comes down to is the bottom line. Verizon has opened up their network, and Apple is in business to make money. If all it requires is swapping out chips then i don't think the idea of an iPhone on the Verizon network is far fetched.

Of course there's the issue of the five year contract Apple has with Att. To that I say the money that will make from verizon customers will be 100 times more than what it would cost to opt out of their current contract with Att, so why not do it?

As for Verizon wanting to lock down the iPhone I say this, if it means keeping current customers, and possibly getting more, i'm sure they'll bend over backwards like Att.

I'm sure Jobs will do whatever it takes to drive the stock price up, so here's to a cdma iPhone in '08.

Except it's not nearly as simple as "GSM chip out, CDMA chip in". There's a huge software piece to it as well. Look at any phone that is released across various wireless standards...say, Treos and Blackberries. The firmware update for a GSM treo is different than the firmware update for a CDMA treo. Using one on the other would not work, or would brick the phone. Same with the blackberry.

Think of it like this: GSM is one type of skeleton key, CDMA is another. You need to know the right way to turn the key so the door will open; just having the key in the lock doesn't do ****. So without a capacity to know which way to turn the key, a CDMA chip will just sit there.

My point in all that is to explain that Apple would have to employ people to write CDMA code for the iPhone. It's not impossible, but it is very, very, very, very unlikely. The cost would be a lot more than just a manufacturing change, not to mention the legal whup-ass AT&T would hand them. And they're doing great in the unlocked GSM market AND the AT&T/other carrier partners market. If they were struggling I'd see it more, but if they're making money hand over fist now, and it doesn't require hiring a whole bunch of new code monkeys AND having special manufacturing for ONE market, then it's not as cut and dried as you think.

[kdarling]

My point in all that is to explain that Apple would have to employ people to write CDMA code for the iPhone. It's not impossible, but it is very, very, very, very unlikely.

I don't think they're going to do a CDMA phone either. (Although they might've done a prototype back when they were doing negotiations with Verizon.)

Just don't make it out to be so difficult. After all, you could use the same argument against going to a fairly new 3G chipset, and we know they're going to do that quickly. Companies generally contract something like this out to someone who does it all the time.

[question fear]

I don't think they're going to do a CDMA phone either. (Although they might've done a prototype back when they were doing negotiations with Verizon.)

Just don't make it out to be so difficult. After all, you could use the same argument against going to a fairly new 3G chipset, and we know they're going to do that quickly. Companies generally contract something like this out to someone who does it all the time.

Fair enough. I was being so hard on how difficult it would be because I was coming at it from a business standpoint. Yes, 3G requires new software too, but that's almost a universal standard. They can sell the same phone everywhere. CDMA requires they AGAIN change things, and I just don't see the incremental sales benefit being high enough to make it worth it...what will they sell, another 300,000 units if we're being really optimistic? That's a lot, but if they can take their shiny new 3G phone to new countries and move 1,000,000 units, all without having to lift a finger in terms of extra software, that's more cost-effective.

But you're right, it's not technically difficult. It's really more fiscally difficult.

[Mr Bean]

Fair enough. I was being so hard on how difficult it would be because I was coming at it from a business standpoint. Yes, 3G requires new software too, but that's almost a universal standard. They can sell the same phone everywhere. CDMA requires they AGAIN change things, and I just don't see the incremental sales benefit being high enough to make it worth it...what will they sell, another 300,000 units if we're being really optimistic? That's a lot, but if they can take their shiny new 3G phone to new countries and move 1,000,000 units, all without having to lift a finger in terms of extra software, that's more cost-effective.

But you're right, it's not technically difficult. It's really more fiscally difficult.

Is more possible than we are making it out to be. I would say that they already did it if they went to verizon first. I don't think they will but we are all forgetting one very important thing! Verizon would have to give up allot of hardware control as far as support and sales is concerned. Also let us not forget about that lovely $20 Device initiation fee from verizon. How would they justify that if we activate thru iTunes?

Both would have to once again agree and we all no neither company is going to give. It is 100% possible to produce a CDMA iPhone and I do not think the cost would be as astronomical as we think because they probably already have the design and the coding for it. Not mention most other CellPhone makers already do it! Motorola, LG etc. all make cell phones for diffrent carriers. This is not uncommon. BTW for all you fellow Verizon users, I used the HTC Touch and the dumbest thing I have ever seen! Don't waste your money.

[yadmonkey]

Is there a link which points to proof of a five year contract with AT&T or is this a mass assumption?

It's too bad that for so many of us, we must choose between either a great phone or a great network. As much as I dislike Verizon for so many reasons, AT&T's network just doesn't compare.

[kdarling]

Is there a link which points to proof of a five year contract with AT&T or is this a mass assumption?

All ATT has ever publicly said is, it's a "multi-year" contract.

The "five years" came from a USAToday column. At the same time, another paper had said "two years".

For some reason, iPhone fans chose to go with the five years. Which is weird, because it's not a badge of honor to have a five year exclusive... quite the opposite; it would mean that Apple had to give a big concession and not sell to the other 2/3 of the US market for a long time.

Bear in mind that the contract was done in the summer of 2006. So my guess is that Apple had to sell the phone by July 1, 2007 for some reason, or give up more concessions. That's the only thing that explains to me why they rushed it out.

[yadmonkey]

All ATT has ever publicly said is, it's a "multi-year" contract.

The "five years" came from a USAToday column. At the same time, another paper had said "two years".

For some reason, iPhone fans chose to go with the five years. Which is weird, because it's not a badge of honor to have a five year exclusive... quite the opposite; it would mean that Apple had to give a big concession and not sell to the other 2/3 of the US market for a long time.

Bear in mind that the contract was done in the summer of 2006. So my guess is that Apple had to sell the phone by July 1, 2007 for some reason, or give up more concessions. That's the only thing that explains to me why they rushed it out.

Thanks for clearing that up. Your responses in this thread have been refreshingly coherent and informative.

[tdar]

Correct. Apple and AT&T signed an exclusive 5 year contract in the US prior to the launch of the iPhone in June 2007. On a side note, I have to wonder if Apple has an out clause. I would think that one was structured into the contract but I'm just speculating.

I see many wondering if Apple has an out clause...but no one seems to ponder the other possibility, Does ATT? Given the mass unlocking , I'd bet that ATT would say that Steve's new cell way is a decided failure. Given the rumors that ATT is looking at subsidizing for the 3G iPhone....maybe they would welcome a way out or at least changes in the terms. This could lead to a multi carrier situation in the US just as it seems to be developing in other country's. Of course the main issue here in the US, is that without a CDMA iPhone there are no other carriers that would help much. T-Mobile won't work unless the 3G iPhone has support for AWS. The smart money IF there were a CDMA iPhone would be Sprint not Verizon. Sprint needs it....Verizon just wants it. But both of the CMDA carriers seem to be trying to build their own next gen phone.....See the HTC Diamond and Raphael.....

[ruinfx]

you are delusional if you think verizon will get the iphone

[Bosox3]

you are delusional if you think verizon will get the iphone


you're delusional to think it wont ever happen.

[ruinfx]

you're delusional to think it wont ever happen.

AT&T will do everything in their power to keep that from happening. If anything T-Mobile will get the iphone before Verizon does.

[yadmonkey]

Delusional?

I think it's time for people to take a step back and remember that we're on the outside here - show an ounce of humility an admit to yourself that as an outsider, you can't possibly know what's going to happen. In fact, much of the argument in this thread has been based on little more than assumptions about things like contract length and what Verizon considers to be in their best interests.

So stop the name calling, get over yourself and allow the possibility that you don't know what's going to happen with the future of the iPhone. There are lots of good arguments on both sides, but if experience has taught me one thing, it's that the decisions of major tech companies can be quite surprising and unpredictable. Consider these declarations, all of which I've seen on these forums:


Apple will never make a phone.
Apple will never switch to Intel.
The HD format war will be long and drawn out.
No way will Apple release an ultraportable.
Apple bla bla bla bla.


I'm always disturbed by people's willingness to make bold declarations about things they can't possibly know. It becomes even more gross when they start calling names like spoiled children.

[question fear]

Yadmonkey, that is an awesome post. Too often we all get caught up in our opinions, our views, and we forget that we're all just playing pundit through the anonymity of the internet.

Seriously, well written advice. Good job.

[ruinfx]

first of all you have to remember that verizon said NO in the first place because apple wanted too much control over the iphone. second, apple would have to make a separate iphone JUST for verizon. currently they make one iphone that they can sell around the world.

so 2 things would have to happen, verizon would have to cave in to apples demand for control and apple would have to determine it is worthwhile to make a separate iphone for ~1/4 of the US market. sticking with GSM only allows apple to have the best of both worlds, sell to the biggest carrier in the US and the majority of the the world with just one device.

dream on.

[Wingnut330]

Since we're all throwing our guesses in, here is mine...

My guess is that Apple won't make a CDMA iPhone either. Verizon has announced that they will be upgrading their network to G4 over the coming years meaning that the US based CDMA network will be pretty much dead. A CDMA iPhone would be for a small US market that will be forced to switched to G4 anyway as soon as the network becomes available.

25% of the US mobile phone market is Verizon, but how many of them would switch to an iPhone? Not everyone has $200-$400 laying around for a phone. Couple that with the fact that in the somewhat near future (2-4 years) the iPhone will be open to all carriers AND Verizon will likely have a new G4 network. The result: I don't think you will see a CDMA version of the iPhone.

Just my opinions, but from a business perspective it doesn't seem to make much sense for either company to jump through the hoops for a product (iphone) & platform (Verizon CDMA) that are going through a fair amount of change. The reward just doesn't seem to be that great - unless your a fan of planned obscelence.

[kdarling]

... The reward just doesn't seem to be that great - unless your a fan of planned obscelence.

Yet, one could argue that's exactly what the current EDGE based (obsolete) phone is all about. Getting people hooked on a device and its following upgrades.

:)

[butterfly0fdoom]

first of all you have to remember that verizon said NO in the first place because apple wanted too much control over the iphone. second, apple would have to make a separate iphone JUST for verizon. currently they make one iphone that they can sell around the world.

so 2 things would have to happen, verizon would have to cave in to apples demand for control and apple would have to determine it is worthwhile to make a separate iphone for ~1/4 of the US market. sticking with GSM only allows apple to have the best of both worlds, sell to the biggest carrier in the US and the majority of the the world with just one device.

dream on.

You also have to remember that Apple approached a variety of carriers simultaneously for other countries. Verizon likely ASSUMED they were first (them or the media). Apple didn't say anything about it, therefore we can't assume anything about it. Stop talking as though you know everything because YOU DON'T.

[ruinfx]

You also have to remember that Apple approached a variety of carriers simultaneously for other countries. Verizon likely ASSUMED they were first (them or the media). Apple didn't say anything about it, therefore we can't assume anything about it. Stop talking as though you know everything because YOU DON'T.

based on your posts in the t-mobile 3G thread your credibility here is pretty low. which carrier gets the deal in the US market has little bearing on who apple deals with over seas. the point is, verizon was offered the iphone and they turned it down. let me see if i can spell this out for you since you continue to lack any form of reading comprehension.

While Cingular (er, AT&T, but you know what we mean) couldn't seem prouder of its iPhone exclusivity, apparently Apple's first choice was Verizon, but the two companies couldn't agree on a deal that worked for both companies. "We said no." Said Jim Gerace, a VZW VP. "We have nothing bad to say about the Apple iPhone. We just couldn't reach a deal that was mutually beneficial." Talks began as far back as two years ago, but Apple's demands were steep. They also give us an idea of what exactly is behind the Apple / Cingular agreement: Apple wanted a percentage of monthly service fees, control over distribution that would limit iPhone sales to Apple and Verizon stores, and even some control over service and support for iPhone customers. "They would have been stepping in between us and our customers to the point where we would have almost had to take a back seat ... on hardware and service support," say Gerace. Cingular doesn't quite see it that way, so perhaps Apple changed its conditions a bit when it started courting Cingy. Says Mark Siegel, a Cingular spokesman, "I don't want to leave the impression that these (iPhone) customers are not ours. They are." Mark also mentioned that Cingular would field calls related to wireless service, and that "We think this is a win for Apple, and it is a win for Cingular." Whether consumers -- who would have presumably had a fair shot at an EV-DO iPhone with Verizon as a service provider -- will win in the end is yet to be seen.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/29/verizon-passed-up-apple-iphone-deal/

its not "assumptions" its called a verizon vp press statement. oh im sorry steve jobs didnt say it so it must be a lie. :rolleyes:

also:
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/29/verizon-rejected-iphone-deal-due-to-apples-terms/

[zainjetha]

well verizon would probably disable the iPod or something stupid anyway. they dont deserve it.

[ruinfx]

well verizon would probably disable the iPod or something stupid anyway. they dont deserve it.

lol very true. verizon would most likely want vcast, not itunes, to be on the phone. i cant imagine verizon being thrilled about putting a competing music store on one of their phones.

[zainjetha]

i can very easily see that happening..

[kdarling]

lol very true. verizon would most likely want vcast, not itunes, to be on the phone. i cant imagine verizon being thrilled about putting a competing music store on one of their phones.

Heh.

A lot of us were not very thrilled at having to put iTunes and its incessant updates on our computers.

I like devices that don't require a computer to activate, but lets me transfer anything I want to/from any computer with it.