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MacRumors
Jan 21, 2007, 10:20 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

PCMag's Cade Metz (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2082435,00.asp) was given the opportunity to play with the Apple iPhone for 10 minutes at Macworld San Francisco.

He provides his impressions from his brief time with the device.

A day after Steve Jobs unveiled the Apple iPhone during his MacWorld keynote on Tuesday morning, I actually got my hands on one. For all of ten minutes. Ten minutes isn't much, but I can safely say that the iPhone is even more impressive than it appeared during the Jobs keyote. And that's saying something.

Metz remarked at the ease of use of the Multitouch interface, but during his brief exposure, found the touch-keyboard typing awkward.

The technology surrounding the Apple's Multitouch technology remains a great source of speculation. DelawareOnline (http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070119/NEWS/701190357/-1/NEWS01) delves into some of the history behind Apple's acquisition of Fingerworks and spoke with Wayne Westerman (founder of Fingerworks). While Westerman declined to comment about a relationship between Apple and Fingerworks due to confidentiality agreements, he did offer this tidbit:

"The one difference that's actually quite significant is the iPhone is a display with the multi-touch, and the FingerWorks was just an opaque surface. That's all I'm going to say there. There's definite similarities, but Apple's definitely taken it another step by having it on a display."

Meanwhile, Jeff Han (http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/), a researcher at NYU, has received a lot of attention due to his popular Multi Touch demo video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc). Despite ongoing speculation and comments that Han had been somehow connected to Apple's iPhone, Han's research appears to be entirely independent. A Guardian.co.uk article (http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1992309,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=20) quotes Han:

"The iPhone is absolutely gorgeous, and I've always said, if there ever were a company to bring this kind of technology to the consumer market, it's Apple."

Indeed, Han has started his own company (Perceptive Pixel (http://www.perceptivepixel.com/)) to market Multitouch technology. NYDailyNews reports (http://www.nydailynews.com/business/story/490491p-413144c.html) the company will start installing big versions of his screen for "film studios and other operations where people can use them as high-tech blackboards to brainstorm on projects".

The article also reveals that Han will be buying an iPhone "as soon as it goes on sale in June."



justflie
Jan 21, 2007, 10:26 PM
more good news is, well, good. especially from PCmag. people that typically bash people might pay a little more attention to the iphone if it's so highly reviewed in a pc magazine.

darwen
Jan 21, 2007, 10:38 PM
the company will start installing big versions of his screen for "film studios and other operations where people can use them as high-tech blackboards to brainstorm on projects".

This would be marketable even to small studios. It really would make editing easy.

Thanatoast
Jan 21, 2007, 10:55 PM
This would be marketable even to small studios. It really would make editing easy.

Heck, at first I thought they said they were gonna market it as backgrounds to movie studios. Imagine the fun you could have teching out the bridge of the Enterprise with these.

twoodcc
Jan 21, 2007, 11:02 PM
more good news is, well, good. especially from PCmag. people that typically bash people might pay a little more attention to teh iphone if it's so highly reviewed in a pc magazine.

i agree here. more good news is good news...and from a PC magazine....it sure helps Apple i think......bring on the iPhone!

zim
Jan 21, 2007, 11:28 PM
I have used Jeff Han's Multi Touch system and can say that it is incredible. Knowing that the iPhone is similar to the Multi Touch system makes me very happy (of course I could see that it was similar from the keynote demo but hearing that it feels similar is a good thing).

Doctor Q
Jan 22, 2007, 02:50 AM
It's good to hear favorable comments by the few outside Apple who have gotten to try an iPhone, even briefly. Sure, Apple says their own product is great, but it's reassuring to hear that others like it on first impression too. I'll expect to hear more reviews as time progresses.

sachamun
Jan 22, 2007, 03:16 AM
I just wonder if the iphone keyboard is actually a little dodgy, or if your fingers merely need a bit more than a rushed 10 minute grope to get the hang of it.

Also, I found a much better video of Jeff Han unveiling his interface at a conference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcKqyn-gUbY

a456
Jan 22, 2007, 03:33 AM
Looks great on the video. I definitely want a computer that does all this and could imagine it even combining in the first instance with a traditional keyboard and mouse/trackpad to increase speed and functionality.

How long until we see multi touch implemented on Apple desktops and laptops?

whooleytoo
Jan 22, 2007, 05:46 AM
I'm actually wondering what Fingerworks actually contributed to the iPhone's development.

If all they had was a multi-finger touch interface on an opaque surface - well Apple already has that: every MacBook and MacBook Pro has a touchpad which accepts two-finger gesture input (two finger for right click, two finger scrolling, drag-lock, two finger zooming).

It appears Apple just added a few new gestures for the iPhone, and applied it to a touch screen.

dazzer21
Jan 22, 2007, 06:54 AM
How long until we see multi touch implemented on Apple desktops and laptops?

I can't really see how the mutitouch concept will work on a laptop screen (certainly not on a desktop). With regards to its implementation on the iphone, the dragging of contacts or pressing of buttons is ideal; if I'm using photoshop on a laptop, I can't see how not being able to see the cursor (because it's buried under my finger!) will be as productive as using a mouse; and besides, if I'm using a mouse/trackpad and button, I can't see me being bothered to move away from it and press a button on my screen rather than click on it with my mouse... my view, anyway

WaRrK
Jan 22, 2007, 07:11 AM
I can't really see how the mutitouch concept will work on a laptop screen (certainly not on a desktop). ... if I'm using photoshop on a laptop, I can't see how not being able to see the cursor (because it's buried under my finger!) will be as productive as using a mouse;

Photoshop is probably a bad program to picture using multi touch with, general OS interaction is the key - next time you have your laptop on your knee and have a lot of windows open - touch your screen and imagine being able to move /resize the windows using your fingers or whilst your hands are up there being able to move sliders etc.(think garage band with a virtual mixing desk (and Apple have a patent for that...)).

I wouldn't want multi touch to replace my keyboard/mouse but when used in parallel for direct manipulation of objects it could be amazing.

Half Glass
Jan 22, 2007, 07:30 AM
...I won't be standing in line to buy one.

Sounds great, sounds revolutionary, but I am not switching providers to Cingular for this phone. Why did Apple choose the provider with the weakest data offerings to bring the newest and best smart phone with full internet browsing capabilities?

In fact, I'm tired of hearing about the previews until we get some actual production models, or actual consumers get their hands on some. I don't care what processor its got in it, how much the parts cost, or how many mac friendly journalists call it the best thing since sliced bread.

Give me Leopard, give me a new reason to buy a Mini (CD2), or a new MacBook. Top secret features anyone?

Well, maybe I am just cranky because my coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

--HG

Xyl
Jan 22, 2007, 07:39 AM
Why did Apple choose the provider with the weakest data offerings to bring the newest and best smart phone with full internet browsing capabilities?

Because most people's favourite carrier is Cingular, according to this informal poll: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=269950 :p

And at least in the US, there's competition. Where I live (in Canada) has only one GSM carrier which charges a ridiculous amount (understatement) for data services.

Anyways, these first impressions from all these reviews seem to be good...only the keyboard issue keeps popping up, but as someone said, it might take more than using it for 10 minutes to get used to and for it to be really efficient.

puuukeey
Jan 22, 2007, 07:49 AM
I'm pretty sure fingerworks had little to do with this. Remember that apple patent of a screen thats also a camera??

I think thats what this is, jeff han uses a normal camera behind a projection. It would follow that this screen instead of using a far away camera, uses the LCD itself to sense the FTIR images

MapGuy
Jan 22, 2007, 07:53 AM
Love to see a review like this in PC Mag, still surprises me though that there is no mention of GPS (http://www.funkymarble.com). I would think that it would be a bigger deal. It's an omission that could possibly keep me from buying one. At least until they include it.

And I'm already on Cingular, would be a no brainer if it were location aware.

SiliconAddict
Jan 22, 2007, 08:01 AM
Ummm I wouldn't exactly call 10 minutes with the thing a "review". Maybe a preview though.

I still expect to see someone take the multitouch patent to court at some point. Its no better then patenting a hierarchical file browser IMHO.

xfiftyfour
Jan 22, 2007, 08:07 AM
Love to see a review like this in PC Mag, still surprises me though that there is no mention of GPS (http://www.funkymarble.com). I would think that it would be a bigger deal. It's an omission that could possibly keep me from buying one. At least until they include it.

And I'm already on Cingular, would be a no brainer if it were location aware.

Yeah, I'd love to see GPS included on the phone - would be a really neat feature, especially considering you could mount in your car and then it's replacing the need for yet another pretty expensive device.

I mean, I guess it's cool that they have maps, but GPS would be even better - but maybe that's just cause I'm a chick and always getting lost everywhere... lol

Small White Car
Jan 22, 2007, 08:16 AM
I can't really see how the mutitouch concept will work on a laptop screen (certainly not on a desktop). With regards to its implementation on the iphone, the dragging of contacts or pressing of buttons is ideal; if I'm using photoshop on a laptop, I can't see how not being able to see the cursor (because it's buried under my finger!) will be as productive as using a mouse; and besides, if I'm using a mouse/trackpad and button, I can't see me being bothered to move away from it and press a button on my screen rather than click on it with my mouse... my view, anyway

Are you kidding? Look at all of iLife. iMovie and iPhoto especially. The controls are nearly designed to be used with a finger already!

Imagine a 24" iMac with a multitouch sreen. Now open up iPhoto and look at the ways you could use it with two fingers. It's nearly perfect already...they'd just have to enlarge the adjustment pane sliders a tiny bit, but that's about it!

Bonte
Jan 22, 2007, 08:27 AM
And at least in the US, there's competition. Where I live (in Canada) has only one GSM carrier which charges a ridiculous amount (understatement) for data services.

Can the iphone surf the web via data service? For all we know its wifi only.

nicksoper
Jan 22, 2007, 09:24 AM
Can the iphone surf the web via data service? For all we know its wifi only.

They have said they included EDGE, so you should be able to use that for Data trasfer. My justfication is that you don't use EDGE for voice calls. A plus point is that it's not that much slower than 3G (300 or so kbps), theoretically that is.

What's also nice about EDGE is that the wifi skype phones use an EDGE core, which means "IF" they release an iPhone version of Skype, it should work fine, and assuming your data charge is less than your voice charge you can start VOIP-ing over the cell networks. International skype calls would be cheaper at least!

I'll keep my fingers crossed for that iPhone skype. :)

rahrens
Jan 22, 2007, 09:41 AM
I read on another forum last week that the ceo of the company Apple bought to obtain the multi-touch software had said of his product that a good touch typist could get 70 wpm on one of their keyboards. Given that their product was an opaque product that gave no more feedback feeling than Apple's iteration of it, that's not bad.

I think the naysayers need to just hold off on the criticism until they have an opportunity to get their own creepy little hands on it to try themselves.

I'll look at such criticism much more favorably once they've typed on it for a day or so and still can't deal with it. Imagination only goes so far...

crees!
Jan 22, 2007, 09:44 AM
Love to see a review like this in PC Mag, still surprises me though that there is no mention of GPS (http://www.funkymarble.com). I would think that it would be a bigger deal. It's an omission that could possibly keep me from buying one. At least until they include it.

And I'm already on Cingular, would be a no brainer if it were location aware.

Can we just put a few more electronic emitting components in one bundle so our brains can further be fried :)

Half Glass
Jan 22, 2007, 10:09 AM
Because most people's favourite carrier is Cingular, according to this informal poll: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=269950 :p


EDIT:Your comment was meant to be sarcastic, but I would not base my decision on an informal survey of 155 users from one forum. [did not see the smiley face at first]

Along similar lines however, look at Consumer Reports' review of cell providers of >20,000 and bases it on various metro areas around the country. Cingular is no better than third and ranges to last in satisfaction.

Ahh, its all anecdotal.

--HG

shamino
Jan 22, 2007, 10:28 AM
Because most people's favourite carrier is Cingular, according to this informal poll: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=269950 :p
Maybe. According to the comments, the poll started off missing Verizon, which was added later. People were using "other" to indicate Verizon. Verizon+other ends up much more than Cingular.

Of course, a poll with only 156 votes doesn't amount to very much :)
I'm pretty sure fingerworks had little to do with this. Remember that apple patent of a screen thats also a camera??

I think thats what this is, jeff han uses a normal camera behind a projection. It would follow that this screen instead of using a far away camera, uses the LCD itself to sense the FTIR images
I don't recall any of Apple's patents describing the use of FTIR tech to implement multi-touch.

This (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1737) patent filing seems most likely for what the iPhone is using. It describes "a pixilated array of transparent capacitance sensing nodes", not a video camera behind a sheet of glass.
Imagine a 24" iMac with a multitouch sreen.
Maybe if it's built-in to my desk surface (a 24" tablet?). On a vertical screen, your wrists would be in pain after less than an hour of that kind of manipulation.

Note that Han's FTIR demos have their screens at a 45-degree angle, with people standing in front. This is not a convenient position on a desk, unless you have a high chair or a low desk.
Can we just put a few more electronic emitting components in one bundle so our brains can further be fried :)
Ummm... GPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gps) receivers are not transmitters. The transmitters are in the satellite. Your phone is a passive receiver. It locks on to three or more satellites and does some really complicated math on the data received to determine your location.

Any radiation you might absorb from GPS comes from the satellites, and will hit you whether or not your phone is receiving the signals.

Thanatoast
Jan 22, 2007, 10:39 AM
I don't see why everyone gets so steamy over GPS. If you can read a map, you don't need to know your exact location by coordinate.

Now, I realize there actually are people out there who can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time (I currently work in tech support), but I don't see how the lack of GPS should be a deal breaker. Get on your iPhone, go to Google maps and ask for step-by-step directions with pictures.

Xyl
Jan 22, 2007, 10:42 AM
EDIT:Your comment was meant to be sarcastic, but I would not base my decision on an informal survey of 155 users from one forum. [did not see the smiley face at first]

Along similar lines however, look at Consumer Reports' review of cell providers of >20,000 and bases it on various metro areas around the country. Cingular is no better than third and ranges to last in satisfaction.

Ahh, its all anecdotal.

--HG

To be fair, I doubt "favourite" actually means "I love this carrier" anyways - most of the time it just ends up being "The carrier I use". Apple probably chose singular because of its availability, rather than its customer service.

guzhogi
Jan 22, 2007, 11:08 AM
The school I work at has these big boards called Activboards where you connect you computer toa projector to project what's onscreen onto the Activboard. Then you use the board as a giant touchscreen. Pretty cool. Only problem is if you stand right in front of the projector, your shadow blocks what you're trying to see. Check out www.activboard.com

guzhogi
Jan 22, 2007, 11:10 AM
I don't see why everyone gets so steamy over GPS. If you can read a map, you don't need to know your exact location by coordinate.

Now, I realize there actually are people out there who can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time (I currently work in tech support), but I don't see how the lack of GPS should be a deal breaker. Get on your iPhone, go to Google maps and ask for step-by-step directions with pictures.

I remember hearing how after 9/11, all cell phones had to have GPS so people can find you.

shamino
Jan 22, 2007, 11:29 AM
I remember hearing how after 9/11, all cell phones had to have GPS so people can find you.
This requirement is a lot older than the 9/11 attacks.

Cell phones have had GPS receivers for a long time. They are required to make the coordinates available to 911 emergency services, so police/fire/ambulance drivers can find you if you call and don't know where you are.

They DO NOT have to make your coordinates available for any other kind of call. Every phone I've seen has a configuration where you can tell it to broadcast GPS coordinates for all calls or only 911 calls. The default is usually set to 911-only.

Phones never transmit coordinates when you're not connected or when they're switched off.

MrCrowbar
Jan 22, 2007, 11:34 AM
Can we just put a few more electronic emitting components in one bundle so our brains can further be fried :)

GPS does not send any signals as far as I know. All it does is get the timestamp of a bunch of GPS satelites and compute your position from that. 3G is bad in terms of brain frying tho.

whooleytoo
Jan 22, 2007, 11:38 AM
This requirement is a lot older than the 9/11 attacks.

Cell phones have had GPS receivers for a long time. They are required to make the coordinates available to 911 emergency services, so police/fire/ambulance drivers can find you if you call and don't know where you are.

They DO NOT have to make your coordinates available for any other kind of call. Every phone I've seen has a configuration where you can tell it to broadcast GPS coordinates for all calls or only 911 calls. The default is usually set to 911-only.

Phones never transmit coordinates when you're not connected or when they're switched off.

AFAIK, phones can still be tracked to an individual cell even when it's switched off - it's not fully off but in a very low power mode. For complete privacy, you'd have to pull out the battery.

I believe this was used to track a member of the IRA here to a bombing some years ago, his phone was used to prove he was in the town at the time.

MrCrowbar
Jan 22, 2007, 11:39 AM
I remember hearing how after 9/11, all cell phones had to have GPS so people can find you.

Not since 9/11 but since 2 years. Cell phones sold in the US can be called by the FBI and send your approximate location (GSM triangulation) back without you knowing. In addition to that, they can remotely activate the phones microphone to listen to you if your phone is switched on. It's basically the same as the backdoors built into all OS (OSX included) so they can check if you"re a Taliban or something.

shamino
Jan 22, 2007, 11:46 AM
.

puuukeey
Jan 22, 2007, 11:47 AM
I don't recall any of Apple's patents describing the use of FTIR tech to implement multi-touch.

well then maybe we'll see some cool new photoscreens in our new displays:)

shamino
Jan 22, 2007, 11:49 AM
.

Lunja
Jan 22, 2007, 12:12 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Indeed, Han has started his own company... the company will start installing big versions of his screen for "film studios and other operations where people can use them as high-tech blackboards to brainstorm on projects".


Drool! I've always said a multitouch editing screen running FCP would take the industry by storm! Imagine how fast you could organise your bins, and adjusting clip size by pinching would be great.

ddubbo
Jan 22, 2007, 12:17 PM
First of all, it's a hard to believe that 10 min of experience is enough to make a review for anything. Usually it takes a several days to understand what a thing is worth.
Secondly, I thought about several things that quiet important to many users.

1-st)What good of a 2MP camera(that already below high-end standards), when it doesn't have a flash
2-nd. What will you do with an about 700$ device(unsubsided) when battery is out in a year. I thrown my iPod mini into the bin, when Apple wanted 90$ in order to replace it.
3-rd. Is a touch screen a good alternative for standard phone keyboard for permanent use. At least we will know that before the iPhone goes on sales. The users of Prada Phone will give an answer.
4-th. How will I answer on the call when I wear glows? It's very essentual for the people who spend a lot of time outside, particularly teenagers.
5-th. According to Nokia researches the one of the most essential cellphone features is how easy to make calls for a people who called you recently, or whom you dialed recently. About 90% of all calls we make are of this kind.
6-th. How easy to operate the phone with one hand? It's very important because we spend a lot of time doing something that needs at least one hand. Driving a car, pissing, cooking, bearing the case etc.
7-th. The only thing that iPhone is really ahead its competitors is web browsing.
And it's about 200-300$ more expensive than most popular smart phones today. Will the price gap worth this web browsing capabilities or not?

Lunja
Jan 22, 2007, 12:26 PM
The school I work at has these big boards called Activboards where you connect you computer toa projector to project what's onscreen onto the Activboard. Then you use the board as a giant touchscreen. Pretty cool. Only problem is if you stand right in front of the projector, your shadow blocks what you're trying to see. Check out www.activboard.com

These are pretty much a standard in UK primary schools now. Since I was at my primary school 9 years ago, they've gone from blackboards to whiteboards to interactive boards. Crazy!

It's great that kids can get so interactive and share their ideas with a class, but I do worry whether kids will ever need to write again...

guzhogi
Jan 22, 2007, 01:10 PM
These are pretty much a standard in UK primary schools now. Since I was at my primary school 9 years ago, they've gone from blackboards to whiteboards to interactive boards. Crazy!

It's great that kids can get so interactive and share their ideas with a class, but I do worry whether kids will ever need to write again...

I worry about anyone not having to write again. After Christmas, I was writing my thank you letters by hand and I caught myself wondering "Now how do I write this letter in cursive again?" With all this technology today, writing, especially cursive, is not being reinforced. Kinda sad. Sometimes I seriously think about going Amish.

Stella
Jan 22, 2007, 01:23 PM
2. Yes, a lot People will keep their phones longer than their iPods and out last the battery life. Personally, every phone I've had has out lasted the battery - and that goes for quite a few number of people I know too.
Apple would be stupid not to have a user-replaceable battery ( and by that I mean - easy to change just like any other cell phone - and not having to search the internet for instructions).

6. Err, driving and phoning is f?cking irresponsible. Anybody found doing it should be fined heavily. If you have an accident whilst doing so, you should lose your license for a very long time. There is no excuse for it. The number of accidents per year is stupidly high. Stop your car then make that call. OR use a headset ( with voice activated dialling ).

One handed use is very important, if you have to use two hands just to make a call would be very impractical.

Ease of Use.

7. Apple is not the *first* company to offer such functional internet browsing capabilities. Others have done this that are just as good.

First of all, it's a hard to believe that 10 min of experience is enough to make a review for anything. Usually it takes a several days to understand what a thing is worth.
Secondly, I thought about several things that quiet important to many users.

1-st)What good of a 2MP camera(that already below high-end standards), when it doesn't have a flash
2-nd. What will you do with an about 700$ device(unsubsided) when battery is out in a year. I thrown my iPod mini into the bin, when Apple wanted 90$ in order to replace it.
3-rd. Is a touch screen a good alternative for standard phone keyboard for permanent use. At least we will know that before the iPhone goes on sales. The users of Prada Phone will give an answer.
4-th. How will I answer on the call when I wear glows? It's very essentual for the people who spend a lot of time outside, particularly teenagers.
5-th. According to Nokia researches the one of the most essential cellphone features is how easy to make calls for a people who called you recently, or whom you dialed recently. About 90% of all calls we make are of this kind.
6-th. How easy to operate the phone with one hand? It's very important because we spend a lot of time doing something that needs at least one hand. Driving a car, pissing, cooking, bearing the case etc.
7-th. The only thing that iPhone is really ahead its competitors is web browsing.
And it's about 200-300$ more expensive than most popular smart phones today. Will the price gap worth this web browsing capabilities or not?

MrCrowbar
Jan 22, 2007, 01:24 PM
I worry about anyone not having to write again. After Christmas, I was writing my thank you letters by hand and I caught myself wondering "Now how do I write this letter in cursive again?" With all this technology today, writing, especially cursive, is not being reinforced. Kinda sad. Sometimes I seriously think about going Amish.

Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty
uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid,
aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in
waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the
frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses
and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid
deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed tihs psas
it on !!Psas Ti ON !

MDMac
Jan 22, 2007, 01:52 PM
Since Apple has patented all having todo with the iPhone, would it be possible for other cell phone manufacturers to go to iPhone contributors and use their technology? If so, I'd see why contributors are being kept secret.

Stella
Jan 22, 2007, 02:17 PM
Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty
uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid,
aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in
waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the
frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses
and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid
deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed tihs psas
it on !!Psas Ti ON !

wow tahts rlealy good I culod raed tihs wtih no pmbolems LOL.

Typing it is obviously more difficult!

MrCrowbar
Jan 22, 2007, 02:39 PM
wow tahts rlealy good I culod raed tihs wtih no pmbolems LOL.

Typing it is obviously more difficult!

Just type very fast and it"ll look pretty much like this. There are lots of programs that scramble text like this. A good alternative to leetspeek if you don't want your text sniffed by automated search engines.

shawnce
Jan 22, 2007, 03:06 PM
This requirement is a lot older than the 9/11 attacks.

Cell phones have had GPS receivers for a long time. They are required to make the coordinates available to 911 emergency services, so police/fire/ambulance drivers can find you if you call and don't know where you are. This is inaccurate.

Wireless E911 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E911#Wireless_Enhanced_911) does not require that the phone have a GPS receiver or if does have one to make position information available to the E911 system. E911 can be implemented (and most often is currently) using cellular tower triangulation. So supporting E911 does NOT imply that a cell phone has a GPS receiver or that the phone even knows it location at all (via a feedback system from the cellular provider for example).

Hunabku
Jan 22, 2007, 03:20 PM
7. Apple is not the *first* company to offer such functional internet browsing capabilities. Others have done this that are just as good.

Not so sure about this statement - perhaps you should define "just as good". Really i think we're tending to get a bit out of hand in our comparisons here since none of us have had one in our hand, let alone used it in a real world applications. And as already mentioned - the reviewers 10-30 minutes is hardly enough.

Stella
Jan 22, 2007, 04:25 PM
Not so sure about this statement - perhaps you should define "just as good". Really i think we're tending to get a bit out of hand in our comparisons here since none of us have had one in our hand, let alone used it in a real world applications. And as already mentioned - the reviewers 10-30 minutes is hardly enough.

Functionality found in other phones that make people think iPhone internet capabilities are more 'advanced' than all others.
- Flash
- Java support ( applets etc, not found in iPhone )
- Web browser capabilities as good as Safari iPhone ( i.e., good Javascript, CSS, HTML support )

Rocketman
Jan 22, 2007, 05:19 PM
I remember hearing how after 9/11, all cell phones had to have GPS so people can find you.

You mean so authorities can find you. That feature is used against handset owners all the time. So much for the Bill of Rights.

Rocketman

Hunabku
Jan 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
Functionality found in other phones that make people think iPhone internet capabilities are more 'advanced' than all others.
- Flash
- Java support ( applets etc, not found in iPhone )
- Web browser capabilities as good as Safari iPhone ( i.e., good Javascript, CSS, HTML support )

Did I read somewhere that Flash may be supported in the iPhone? Also that Java apps are not to be supported, but that Javascript will be supported? If it doesn't support both flash and javascript then fogetaboutit.

Anyway your points are well taken - my big question is can you zoom in like you can with the iPhone. It seems to me, in usability, that iPhone web surfing rocks, but again i haven't the experience with the iPhone or for that matter even surfing the web with a smart phone - it would have to be a killer implementation on a small screen (plus wifi) to make it worth my while - from the keynote it seemed that apple was able to pull that off.

Stella
Jan 22, 2007, 05:59 PM
Javascript will be supported, without that, a lot of website ( i.e., Web 2.0 / Ajax ) won't work, and is apart of webkit anyway.
Did I read somewhere that Flash may be supported in the iPhone? Also that Java apps are not to be supported, but that Javascript will be supported? If it doesn't support both flash and javascript then fogetaboutit.

Anyway your points are well taken - my big question is can you zoom in like you can with the iPhone. It seems to me, in usability, that iPhone web surfing rocks, but again i haven't the experience with the iPhone or for that matter even surfing the web with a smart phone - it would have to be a killer implementation on a small screen (plus wifi) to make it worth my while - from the keynote it seemed that apple was able to pull that off.

rdrr
Jan 22, 2007, 07:17 PM
Did anyone else notice that the "pre-viewer" mentioned that a phone call he made to the office was reported to him being fuzzy? I hope that it can be attributed to the poor coverage at the facilities. I will not be happy shelling out $700 for a pretty tin can. :eek:

Edit: LOL! Maybe that is why they didn't go with Verizon! "Can you hear me now?" :D

guzhogi
Jan 22, 2007, 07:45 PM
Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty
uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid,
aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in
waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the
frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses
and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid
deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed tihs psas
it on !!Psas Ti ON !

I don't mean writing like that, I mean pen and paper writing. How often do you actually write on paper? Now, everything it seems is written in MS Word.

Grakkle
Jan 22, 2007, 08:14 PM
I worry about anyone not having to write again. After Christmas, I was writing my thank you letters by hand and I caught myself wondering "Now how do I write this letter in cursive again?" With all this technology today, writing, especially cursive, is not being reinforced. Kinda sad. Sometimes I seriously think about going Amish.

Yeah, I notice the same thing sometimes. Actually, I try to make a point of writing stuff by hand at least every few days just to keep in practise.

As for the iPhone, I still think it sounds great - But the way it's being offered is cruddy. Apple should sell an unlocked iPhone. Period. Yes, it might be expensive, and the market for unlocked phones is certainly a minority of the total mobile market - at least in North America. That being as it may, it wouldn't cost any more for Apple to sell at least some unlocked phones, and if I bought one I'd certainly prefer unlocked.

The interface sounds massively better than traditional button-phones. If I could replace the keyboard on my laptop with something like that... That should be the next step from keyboards, IMO.

gwangung
Jan 22, 2007, 09:17 PM
As for the iPhone, I still think it sounds great - But the way it's being offered is cruddy. Apple should sell an unlocked iPhone. Period. Yes, it might be expensive, and the market for unlocked phones is certainly a minority of the total mobile market - at least in North America.

I am constantly impressed by the business acumen shown around here. :rolleyes:

Grakkle
Jan 22, 2007, 09:46 PM
I am constantly impressed by the business acumen shown around here. :rolleyes:

Nokia and SonyEricsson sell unlocked phones. Of course any unlocked phone is going to be more expensive due to the lack of subsidising from the carrier, but there's no reason that selling unlocked phones should cost the manufacturer any more.

If Apple sold unlocked phones they'd sell them on their website (as they no doubt will with the locked AT&T iPhone) and through the normal distribution channels they'd sell the locked phones through, so distribution costs wouldn't be any higher.

If anything, selling unlocked phones as well as locked makes more sense because selling the unlocked phones (albeit probably a small number) would allow Apple to capture a portion of the market they'll probably otherwise lose.

AidenShaw
Jan 23, 2007, 08:49 AM
If anything, selling unlocked phones as well as locked makes more sense because selling the unlocked phones (albeit probably a small number) would allow Apple to capture a portion of the market they'll probably otherwise lose.
It's probably a sure bet to say that Cingular's "exclusive" deal with Apple forbids this...

Stella
Jan 23, 2007, 04:52 PM
It's probably a sure bet to say that Cingular's "exclusive" deal with Apple forbids this...

Hint: Gray imports.

There will be unlocked versions in some parts of the world - forced upon Apple by local laws and different market conditions, i.e., unlocked phones are more popular in Europe than the states.

Grakkle
Jan 23, 2007, 07:22 PM
Hint: Gray imports.

There will be unlocked versions in some parts of the world - forced upon Apple by local laws and different market conditions, i.e., unlocked phones are more popular in Europe than the states.

Right. It's a fact that the U.S./North American mobile market is so screwed up that buying phones from Europe is usually the best option for getting unlocked phones. If I buy the iPhone It'll probably be an unlocked Euro unit - unless Apple does end up selling them unlocked in North America.

jenme
Apr 18, 2007, 09:59 AM
Is iPhone going to be compatible w/PCs? Is the calendar able to sync even w/ PC?