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thejadedmonkey
Jan 22, 2007, 02:35 PM
I just saw this mock-up for the flash based zune due out 4q of 2007. I'm not going to debate the merits of the zune, but I have to say that I really like the mock up, and I think with just some minor tweaking Apple would be able to/should be able to make something like that out of their nano. It's basically a larger screen, and mickey-mouse ears. I like it... and I think Apple better release something soon that doesn't cost me $600 to counter the zune.

Lets try to keep this away from the zune is the sux0r mentality and actually think of the hardware.. I think if Apple doesn't step it up, they'll have some competition (xp/zune/360 make a sweet combo). They got where they are today by being the best, but now they're letting the lead go stale, and worse yet there's no rumors floating around for a new iPod of any type.

And without further adue, here's the picture.



mkrishnan
Jan 22, 2007, 02:56 PM
Where did the mockup come from? Is there any credibility to it?

As far as your $600 comment...I'm not sure I understand. Apple has an 8 gig flash player now... it doesn't cost $600, at least not $600US.

It would be really nice if the screen on the Nano got bigger. What is it that you like about the "ears"?

thejadedmonkey
Jan 22, 2007, 03:01 PM
Where did the mockup come from? Is there any credibility to it?
Dunno, but I sure think it has potential.

As far as your $600 comment...I'm not sure I understand. Apple has an 8 gig flash player now... it doesn't cost $600, at least not $600US.
No, but it's the newest iPod model. All the other ones just feel old and outdated. To get something that had a fresh feel to it is $500 for 4gb I believe, and $600 for 8gb.


It would be really nice if the screen on the Nano got bigger. What is it that you like about the "ears"?I dunno, I just find them different. Sort of how the buttons around the first iPods were different, and the 3rd gen didn't have any physical buttons.. I just think it's time Apple did something to their lineup. The iPods haven't really changed much in years.

mkrishnan
Jan 22, 2007, 03:05 PM
Erm...you posted the mock-up. How can you not know where it came from? :confused:

Anyway, though, I personally would be equally happy with the present Nano design with subtle refinement -- e.g. more space devoted to the screen. Although, of course, there's the persistent question of whether the touchscreen design will come to iPods or not. For some things it's good, although for running and so on, I prefer having the wheel vastly, because it has tactile characteristics.

Sesshi
Jan 22, 2007, 03:05 PM
There's also the software aspect. I really don't see the point of iTunes - substandard quality songs, priced at more than a CD discount shop (if you want to buy albums).

I like the 'all you can eat' subscription aspect of Zune. I know the hysteria about your music going away, but you can download anything you like and listen to anything you like. Think of the variety, think of the new stuff you can expose yourself to. All for the cost of 2 CD's a month.

Like something? Hit up Amazon or your local bargain bucket CD store and rip it yourself for true control over your music. iTunes is nothing but a hype-boosted lock-in service in comparison to that.

j26
Jan 22, 2007, 03:15 PM
There's also the software aspect. I really don't see the point of iTunes - substandard quality songs, priced at more than a CD discount shop (if you want to buy albums).
True, but I'm happy enough with 128 AAC with what I rip. I don't buy from iTunes either - I don't like DRM.

I like the 'all you can eat' subscription aspect of Zune. I know the hysteria about your music going away, but you can download anything you like and listen to anything you like. Think of the variety, think of the new stuff you can expose yourself to. All for the cost of 2 CD's a month.
I don't fancy spending 2 cds a month to sustain my existing music, and I'd rarely buy 2 cd's in one month. The subscription model doesn't suit me. If it suits you, fine.

Like something? Hit up Amazon or your local bargain bucket CD store and rip it yourself for true control over your music. iTunes is nothing but a hype-boosted lock-in service in comparison to that.
That's exactly what most people who have iPods do. Most people don't spend a lot on iTunes, and most seem to buy individual songs rather than entire albums. You're either trolling, or just have no idea about iTunes.

Dagless
Jan 22, 2007, 03:25 PM
I don't fancy spending 2 cds a month to sustain my existing music, and I'd rarely buy 2 cd's in one month. The subscription model doesn't suit me. If it suits you, fine.

Me too. That's what Radio is for.

DJ plays song.
I like song.
I listen out for who made the song.
I potentially buy the album.

I don't pay 2 CD's a month to do that.
That said I only have about 10 songs I bought on iTunes, and they were from the Coke Cola offer. The rest are the weekly free songs.
I think they're kinda expensive over here. for 50p a track - i'd buy loads. but since it's based on the US model we have to pay 79p (or so) which just is a little awkward. Something more precise would be perfect.

on topic - iPods do need a new look IMO. They're perfect but I'd love to see where the next models take us. The Zune mock up looks foul. 2 tones? eep.

2nyRiggz
Jan 22, 2007, 03:33 PM
^Indeed, I don't want to rent songs so thats out of the question for me. The pictures posted of the zune things is not half bad but not for me...that screen looks way too thin.

I think the current nanos are lovley the way they are today but if they do upgrade them I wouldn't mind a bigger screen.




Bless

Sesshi
Jan 22, 2007, 03:36 PM
*adopts patient posture*

The subscription service - whether you go for Zune, Napster, Rhapsody, yada yada - has around 2 million tracks available for download, in full.

You can search for and download any of those tracks at any time. Heard about Salif Keita and want a taste? You can download all of his albums and see what he's about, not just a 30 second snippet.

If you want to keep an album, you don't buy it from these people because they supply the same low-quality songs that iTunes do - you buy it from a discount CD store.

It's not so much about 'renting' - which is what many people can't get past - as having an almost limitless full-trial CD catalogue at your disposal.

You're either trolling, or just have no idea about iTunes.

What is it with the Apple Zombies? :mad: :confused:

gavd
Jan 22, 2007, 03:51 PM
*adopts patient posture*

The subscription service - whether you go for Zune, Napster, Rhapsody, yada yada - has around 2 million tracks available for download, in full.

You can search for and download any of those tracks at any time. Heard about Salif Keita and want a taste? You can download all of his albums and see what he's about, not just a 30 second snippet.

If you want to keep an album, you don't buy it from these people because they supply the same low-quality songs that iTunes do - you buy it from a discount CD store.

It's not so much about 'renting' - which is what many people can't get past - as having an almost limitless full-trial CD catalogue at your disposal.


... but not everyone wants to pay for a full-trial system and then have to pay for the physical discs as well. Even if they can be picked up at a discount.

Like j26 says, if the subscription model works for you then that's fine, but it doesn't work for everyone.

stoid
Jan 22, 2007, 03:53 PM
No, but it's the newest iPod model. All the other ones just feel old and outdated. To get something that had a fresh feel to it is $500 for 4gb I believe, and $600 for 8gb.

What? :confused:

Sesshi
Jan 22, 2007, 03:58 PM
... but not everyone wants to pay for a full-trial system and then have to pay for the physical discs as well. Even if they can be picked up at a discount.

Like j26 says, if the subscription model works for you then that's fine, but it doesn't work for everyone.

Hmmm... I still feel like it's not got through. I'm going to leave it at this though.

gavd
Jan 22, 2007, 04:01 PM
Hmmm... I still feel like it's not got through. I'm going to leave it at this though.

I'm not stupid. It has got through. I understand what you mean. I'm just saying that what works for you doesn't work for everyone. :rolleyes:

Krevnik
Jan 22, 2007, 07:16 PM
Hmmm... I still feel like it's not got through. I'm going to leave it at this though.

How 'bout I give a couple reasons why the subscription model fails for me personally? Would that make it easier to understand why someone wouldn't want the subscription model?

- Non-local groups cannot be found through the current online environment. Unless the group's label signed an agreement with a local label (Metropolis, for example) in your country, then good luck finding that on the subscription.

- Independant artists who distribute without a label do not appear on any existing service just yet, mostly due to barriers of entry the larger labels want in place so that these Indie artists go through them to get onto Zune/iTMS.

- Purchase volume doesn't make sense for a lot of people. Paying for a subscription seems cheaper at 15$/month versus a CD which retails for 10-15$ (on the low end). But if they buy track at a time, and rarely purchase more than an album a month... then the subscription's cost over straight purchasing doesn't make any sense. My yearly music purchases tend to be about 60-120$ worth, depending on how much foreign music I purchase from importers.

Now, a subscription makes sense for those that buy a lot of music, almost constantly. The guys who are always jumping from group to group, trying to listen to as much music as possible, or those who like having a lot of music to listen to, and never really dwell on certain groups or albums very long.

I am not one of these people. My entire music library is under 8GB right now, and that is from about 1999 to present. I had a stint where I literally grabbed every artist I could find on some of the indie sites, but lately, I would rather listen to my personal 'classics' than run around gobbling up all the new (big label approved) music coming out left and right. When the big labels start providing something I actually want... that might change.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jan 22, 2007, 07:32 PM
What? :confused:

Don't play stupid - the iPhone is the newest iPod model. Steve Jobs said so explicitly in his keynote.

WildCowboy
Jan 22, 2007, 07:37 PM
Don't play stupid - the iPhone is the newest iPod model. Steve Jobs said so explicitly in his keynote.

So when the next generation of iPods comes out, if it's before the iPhone starts shipping, which is the newest iPod model then?

thejadedmonkey
Jan 22, 2007, 10:52 PM
Erm...you posted the mock-up. How can you not know where it came from? :confused:

Sorry, it's off of engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/21/flash-based-zune-due-in-q407-better-wifi-soon/), but I don't know where they got it from.

WildCowboy
Jan 22, 2007, 10:57 PM
Sorry, it's off of engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/21/flash-based-zune-due-in-q407-better-wifi-soon/), but I don't know where they got it from.

As it says at the end of the article, it's from "Brian J." It was submitted as part of an Engadget Zune mockup contest.

Zwhaler
Jan 22, 2007, 11:12 PM
I don't really like the black/white mix, but it looks alright.

Chundles
Jan 22, 2007, 11:17 PM
How is that "fresh"?

It's long and skinny, like the nano, has a screen (stretched and funny looking) at the top and a wheel at the bottom just like the nano.

The iPhone is fresh because it's just a screen, that's it, no wheel, no buttons all over the place, just a screen.

Not a fan of that mockup at all.

Sesshi
Jan 23, 2007, 04:03 AM
How 'bout I give a couple reasons why the subscription model fails for me personally? Would that make it easier to understand why someone wouldn't want the subscription model?

- Non-local groups cannot be found through the current online environment. Unless the group's label signed an agreement with a local label (Metropolis, for example) in your country, then good luck finding that on the subscription.

- Independant artists who distribute without a label do not appear on any existing service just yet, mostly due to barriers of entry the larger labels want in place so that these Indie artists go through them to get onto Zune/iTMS.

- Purchase volume doesn't make sense for a lot of people. Paying for a subscription seems cheaper at 15$/month versus a CD which retails for 10-15$ (on the low end). But if they buy track at a time, and rarely purchase more than an album a month... then the subscription's cost over straight purchasing doesn't make any sense. My yearly music purchases tend to be about 60-120$ worth, depending on how much foreign music I purchase from importers.

Now, a subscription makes sense for those that buy a lot of music, almost constantly. The guys who are always jumping from group to group, trying to listen to as much music as possible, or those who like having a lot of music to listen to, and never really dwell on certain groups or albums very long.

I am not one of these people. My entire music library is under 8GB right now, and that is from about 1999 to present. I had a stint where I literally grabbed every artist I could find on some of the indie sites, but lately, I would rather listen to my personal 'classics' than run around gobbling up all the new (big label approved) music coming out left and right. When the big labels start providing something I actually want... that might change.

Oh absolutely. You don't buy music online, which is not the comparison I was aiming for.

And as for the other poster, I would point out that with the subscription-based services, you do of course have the option to run without a subscription and buy on-demand. It's about having the choice :rolleyes:

Diatribe
Jan 23, 2007, 04:17 AM
I don't like it. A nano looks way better than this.

Anyway, a video iPod with the same iPod functionality as the iPhone will come out in the next months.
The nano will get a bigger screen in time.

Don't worry about it, it will all come out this year.

mojohanna
Jan 23, 2007, 07:54 AM
*adopts patient posture*

The subscription service - whether you go for Zune, Napster, Rhapsody, yada yada - has around 2 million tracks available for download, in full.

You can search for and download any of those tracks at any time. Heard about Salif Keita and want a taste? You can download all of his albums and see what he's about, not just a 30 second snippet.

If you want to keep an album, you don't buy it from these people because they supply the same low-quality songs that iTunes do - you buy it from a discount CD store.

It's not so much about 'renting' - which is what many people can't get past - as having an almost limitless full-trial CD catalogue at your disposal.



What is it with the Apple Zombies? :mad: :confused:


My feeling is that it is only $.99 a freakin song. If I want to try a song out or 5 songs it is still less than a monthly sub. or a purchase of a CD. For me the only way to go is the buck a song route. Since itunes has been around it has totally gotten me back into music. The biggest reason is that I have access to millions of songs for only a buck a piece. I can buy what I want, when I want and not have to worry about another GD monthly fee. We have too many monthly fees in our lives, Cell phone, net connection, cable or sat TV, land line. Jesus, everything is a freaking monthly service fee.

To me montly fees for music services are like all you can eat buffets. Yea, you get a great variety and you can eat all you want, but rarely do you get your money's worth.

Sesshi
Jan 23, 2007, 11:16 AM
I suppose this is the problem of trying to discuss from the point of view of someone who's used both models of operation versus someone who is rabidly attached to the one without even having tried - or even bothered to find out how it actually works - the other and disparages it.

I really should know better than to put in reasonable comments on things other than Apple hard/software this forum. Sorry about that.

Everything about any non iPod blows chunks!!!!!11111111

Teddy's
Jan 23, 2007, 11:20 AM
All I know is that I hate it! :mad:

Stampyhead
Jan 23, 2007, 11:26 AM
To me montly fees for music services are like all you can eat buffets. Yea, you get a great variety and you can eat all you want, but rarely do you get your money's worth.

I agree. If others think a subscription service would work for them that's great. I would never sign up for one, though. I like iTunes as it is.
And that Zune mockup, whether real or imaginary, is quite ugly, in my opinion. I much prefer the current Nano.

balamw
Jan 23, 2007, 11:42 AM
I don't really like the black/white mix, but it looks alright.

Me either. The contrast seems really distracting. It makes the device look much smaller than it is, but you can't see the controls. (at elast on a white background).

Anyhow, does it come in brown?

B

DavidLeblond
Jan 23, 2007, 11:42 AM
Don't play stupid - the iPhone is the newest iPod model. Steve Jobs said so explicitly in his keynote.

iPhone = iPhone. iPod = iPod. iPhone != iPod.

The whole "its a phone! its a wide screened ipod!" was something called marketing.

Stridder44
Jan 23, 2007, 12:29 PM
Don't play stupid - the iPhone is the newest iPod model. Steve Jobs said so explicitly in his keynote.

Wow what's with the hostility? I don't care what he says the iPhone makes a better phone than an iPod, on storage limits alone. Show me one of these "newest iPod model"s that has at least 30 GB and then I can be excited. *crosses fingers*

210
Jan 24, 2007, 10:39 AM
I personally don't like the look of this Zune. It doesn't look anything new, different or special than other players out there. The long screen looks a bit weird and a bit pointless if it's designed to watch movies as the screen would be too small.

As the subscription of music, I would like it for the first month to go through the entire store to hear what songs I would like, but I would then buy the songs I would like instead of paying every month for it. It's just another headache to remember you have to pay for it. Also, with songs people tend to have quite large collections and it would be difficult to keep track of if you stop the subscription and don't know what songs you had. I know there is a buy option, but that why I would only use the subscription for only 1 month and then buy once I know what I want.

I don't know what people's problem with iTunes is. I think the sound quality is sufficient and as I have no intention of buying any other player, I'm quite happy that it only works on iPods. If I want my songs to work elsewhere, I can always burn them on to a CD.

Then again, instead of complaining about iTunes, you could just not use it and buy a CD.

Lord Blackadder
Jan 24, 2007, 10:44 AM
I think they should put a bigger screen on the HDD-based iPods, but the Nano is kinda small to watch movies on, even if you doubled the screen size. So I don't see the bigger screen for the flash Zune being an advantage, although the market seems to be universal in its adoption of bigger screens for everything.