Do you need to buy Panther?

[maracz]

When panther comes out...will you be able to download it or will you need to purchase it as if it were a whole new OS. Thanks for your help :)

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by maracz
When panther comes out...will you be able to download it or will you need to purchase it as if it were a whole new OS. Thanks for your help :)
Sadly, my crystal ball isn't working today...so we'll just have to wait an see :rolleyes:

[maracz]

Originally posted by edesignuk
Sadly, my crystal ball isn't working today...so we'll just have to wait an see :rolleyes:

It was a reasonable question. I just baught my first mac and I'm notsure if you need to buy OS updates. Did you need to buy Jaguar if you already had 10.1?

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by maracz
It was a reasonable question. I just baught my first mac and I'm notsure if you need to buy OS updates. Did you need to buy Jaguar if you already had 10.1?
Ok, that's more like it. In answer to your question then, I would *think* (although we have no idea really, hence my first response) that you will, you had to pay for the entire OS to go from 10.1 to 10.2 :(

[King Cobra]

If Panther was available for download, I would not be surprised if the complete package was over 650MB, or was on two CDs. On my dial-up, this would take a minimum of one week to download.

As for burning a copy to a CD-R from an Apple Store, I doubt it. Apple needs the money right now.

Apple also needs to reduce the price of their operating system box. Many people were willing to pay the $129 for Jaguar ($199 for the five pack). Others resorted to pirating the operating system.

Apple may not be able to make a copy-proof version of their operating system, but decoy copies of Panther can be placed onto public P2P networks to reduce the success for piraters of the operating system.

As for pricing, the magic peak price right now is $99.99. And this is how much Panther should sell for.

Again, if Apple offered Panther for downloading a copy from an Apple Store either for free or for cheap, there are other things to consider:
A: Does it take two CDs?
B: If burning a copy of Panther is free, Apple would make minimal profit.
C: If burning a copy of Panther was cheap, Apple would make little profit.


Edit: Don't forget that .Mac has been instituted as something that is no longer free. If people do not buy .Mac, there is no profit and no harm done. If people do buy .Mac, Apple makes some percentage of $100 profit instead of $0 profit.

[MacBandit]

I'm sorry but from what I have seen and the what I have read Panther will be a pay upgrade.

[CMillerERAU]

IMHO, I would be really surprised to see Panther go for free. I think Apple (thankfully) has gone away from giving away everything for free. I mean it was nice but they lost major $$$ by doing so. I think 10.1 was a gimme simply by how 10.0 was such a dog. Besides, who else in the industry gives away OS's for free (I mean, when you have to plop down big bucks for something like Windows ME, you know there is no such thing as a free OS)

[hvfsl]

[i]Apple also needs to reduce the price of their operating system box. Many people were willing to pay the $129 for Jaguar ($199 for the five pack). Others resorted to pirating the operating system.

Apple may not be able to make a copy-proof version of their operating system, but decoy copies of Panther can be placed onto public P2P networks to reduce the success for piraters of the operating system.
[/B]

It is not Apple can't put copy protection on Macs, it is it does not want to. Apple said that if pirating gets out of hand on the Mac then it will put copy protection similar to WindowsXP. So if people pirate, they just push the price up for everyone else. Besides I thought it was only the PC owners that pirated.

[iJon]

well if apple stays to what they accounced not to long ago this version should be free. apple said they want to have every other update free. 10 and 10.2 are pay, 10.1 and 10.3 are free. but know one knows if they will stick to it or not.

iJon

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by iJon
well if apple stays to what they accounced not to long ago this version should be free. apple said they want to have every other update free. 10 and 10.2 are pay, 10.1 and 10.3 are free. but know one knows if they will stick to it or not.

iJon

Hmm, when did they say that? Must be some inside information you heard at the store that you are now confusing with common knowlege?

[iJon]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Hmm, when did they say that? Must be some inside information you heard at the store that you are now confusing with common knowlege?
nope no inside knowledge, it was in a video, many of my friends here on macrumors have seen the same thing, i could just never dig it up. i dont give out inside info. it was phil schiller talking, probably was a year ago when there was the discussion of jaguar costing 129.

iJon

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by iJon
nope no inside knowledge, it was in a video, many of my friends here on macrumors have seen the same thing, i could just never dig it up. i dont give out inside info. it was phil schiller talking, probably was a year ago when there was the discussion of jaguar costing 129.

iJon

Hmm never saw the video. There was a lot of guessing including on my part that it would be an every other pay upgrade. I've seen every release that Apple has aired I don't think that was a mission statement on there part.

[iJon]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Hmm never saw the video. There was a lot of guessing including on my part that it would be an every other pay upgrade. I've seen every release that Apple has aired I don't think that was a mission statement on there part.
yeah, i stopped worrying about it a long time ago after i got into an argument with some guy telling me to back up my words or i should buy everyone panther :rolleyes:. im just gonna wait and see what happens because it makes no difference to me, to other people it will though because if apple charges again this is gonna start being an expensive os

iJon

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by iJon
yeah, i stopped worrying about it a long time ago after i got into an argument with some guy telling me to back up my words or i should buy everyone panther :rolleyes:. im just gonna wait and see what happens because it makes no difference to me, to other people it will though because if apple charges again this is gonna start being an expensive os

iJon


If you've gone through this before I appologize your words good enough for me. I trust you.

[iJon]

Originally posted by MacBandit
If you've gone through this before I appologize your words good enough for me. I trust you.
yeah i have, i dont really care. thats why i said we really dont know if apple will stick to it. we all know how apple works, can change at any time. next month all our questions will be answered. we will just have to see how many new features we get and we may get a good idea of the cost. Did apple annouce the price of jaguar at WWDC?

iJon

[gotohamish]

No offense, but how do all you people get to be members without knowing the answers to such easy and recent questions?

I know questions are only easy if you know the answer, but one look at the Apple Store would show you that you buy Jaguar, and to date no full .point update had been available for download, so why would this be so different?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by gotohamish
No offense, but how do all you people get to be members without knowing the answers to such easy and recent questions?

I know questions are only easy if you know the answer, but one look at the Apple Store would show you that you buy Jaguar, and to date no full .point update had been available for download, so why would this be so different?

Because 10.1 was free. If you already had 10.0.

[Grimace]

As a substantial upgrade, Panther will probably not be free. Even if it were to Jaguar owners, the previous posts about how long it would take to download are right on.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
As a substantial upgrade, Panther will probably not be free. Even if it were to Jaguar owners, the previous posts about how long it would take to download are right on.

Ah, but remember 10.1 was not a free download. You either paid like $20 for a cd to be sent to you or you went to your local Apple store for your free copy.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Because 10.1 was free. If you already had 10.0.

Yeah, but it wasn't free - and not available to download - which was the answer to the question.

Panther will be full price, and it will justify it, I'm sure.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Yeah, but it wasn't free - and not available to download - which was the answer to the question.

Panther will be full price, and it will justify it, I'm sure.

I agree that in the thinking that Panther will be a pay upgrade. You did on the other hand say that know full point upgrade was free and that was incorrect that is what I was pointing out. It was free all you had to do was go to an Authorized Apple reseller and if you had purchased 10.0 then you got 10.1 for no charge at all. That is why some people are wondering about 10.3. They are applying and every other pay upgrade rule to the process which may or may not be the case even though apparently Apple did in fact state that as the case at one point.

[5300cs]

Going by previous releases, I would think that Panther would not be free.
10.1 wasn't free, neither was 10.2 With all the rumored changes/improvments coming to 10.3, I highly doubt it would be free.

Just speculation though, don't quote me.

[iJon]

Originally posted by 5300cs
Going by previous releases, I would think that Panther would not be free.
10.1 wasn't free, neither was 10.2 With all the rumored changes/improvments coming to 10.3, I highly doubt it would be free.

Just speculation though, don't quote me.
you are mistaken, 10.1 was free, we have said it a couple of times in the forum.

iJon

[Wardofsky]

Well X wasn't free.
Then all the minor updates were.

The Jaguar was not free.
But all the minor updates are.

The Panther was...

[5300cs]

Originally posted by iJon
you are mistaken, 10.1 was free, we have said it a couple of times in the forum.

iJon


I never saw it free, I was told it would be a reduced $19.95 for the people who purchased 10.0, but only for a 90 day period.
:confused:

Guess I missed out ...:(

[macstudent]

I am going to be buying a tower in august so hopefully it will be coming with panther. That way I will not have to pay for the OS alone.

[Tequila Grandma]

While I'd certainly welcome it, I'd be incredibly suprised if 10.3 was a free upgrade like 10.1. I think 10.1 was only free because 10.0 really felt like an incomplete OS. 10.0 was kind of just there for those who wanted to get acquainted with the OS early on, 10.1 was the first real version of OSX IMO.

I wouldn't, however, be suprised if the price of the boxed OS dropped a little bit. I can't see Panther having nearly as many advancements as Jaguar, and the $129 price last time made people a little testy... I'm guessing it'll at least have a price drop to $99, maybe even a bit lower than that.

Arigato,
Brook

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by 5300cs
I never saw it free, I was told it would be a reduced $19.95 for the people who purchased 10.0, but only for a 90 day period.
:confused:

Guess I missed out ...:(

Yup.

My dad and I got free copies at our local reseller (Mac specialty store, not a big box).

We walked in and I mentioned the 10.1 upgrade and he passed us two boxes with 10.1 CDs in them, no questions asked or hassles.
I still have mine actually. It's a nice little box-envelope thingy that didn't come with the mailed-out 10.1 discs, though the mailer version did include a copy of Developer Tools on CD.

Anyway, my mom's a teacher, and if they do the X for teachers thing, I think I'll just get her to order a copy of Panther if it's another $129.

I only really paid $40 for Jaguar and wouldn't think of paying more than that for what should have been 10.0 final.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Tequila Grandma
I think 10.1 was only free because 10.0 really felt like an incomplete OS. 10.0 was kind of just there for those who wanted to get acquainted with the OS early on, 10.1 was the first real version of OSX IMO.

Eh, 10.1 was incomplete too. Jaguar was the first version of OSX where it acted like it was supposed to and started regaining key features that were missing despite being present in MacOS since System 7.

Making 10.3 a full pay upgrade would be foolish at this point. Mac TCO is already high enough without tacking on $129/yr for OS upgrades. Even MS isn't that stupid.

[AppleMatt]

Well while we are (almost :rolleyes: ) on this topic, what are these software update voucher thingies in my Jaguar, PowerBook 12" and iLife boxes for?

AppleMatt

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
Well while we are (almost :rolleyes: ) on this topic, what are these software update voucher thingies in my Jaguar, PowerBook 12" and iLife boxes for?

AppleMatt

If Apple uses the Up-To-Date program for any of those, you can use the coupons as proof-of-purchase to get free or discounted upgrades.

[iJon]

Originally posted by 5300cs
I never saw it free, I was told it would be a reduced $19.95 for the people who purchased 10.0, but only for a 90 day period.
:confused:

Guess I missed out ...:(
nope wrong again. 10.1 was free is you had a local dealer or apple store in your area. it was 20 dollars covering shipping and handling fees.

iJon

[5300cs]

Originally posted by iJon
nope wrong again. 10.1 was free is you had a local dealer or apple store in your area. it was 20 dollars covering shipping and handling fees.

iJon

Doh! I'm 0 for 2 today! Thanks for pointing that out iJon. I paid full price for 10.1 because I was in Japan at the time, no Apple stores here (though I was told by another Mac guy that one day they were giving away free CDs downtown in the electronics district. One day only.. aarrgh.) I got my friend with a college ID to buy Jaguar for me; much smarter second time around:D

I think 10.1 was OK, but I agree that 10.2 is what made/makes OS X really shine. IMHO 10.1 was much better than 10.0, and 10.2 vastly better than 10.1. Can't wait to see what Apple has up their collective sleeves for 10.3.

By the way, any rumors on OS XI or is that too far-fetched?:D

[MacsRgr8]

The "free" 10.1 update thing was there because 10.0 was useless. Fun to play with, but by no means usefull for any serious work.
As the Public Beta of X wasn't free, as wasn't 10.0, the 10.1 upgrade CD had to be free (or almost) to 10.0 owners. Remember that the 10.1 upgrade CD asked for an installed version of 10.0 on your hard drive.
I bet (and hope really) 10.3 is a paid-for new OS. I try to see 10.2 and 10.3 as new systems. (Like Win 2k, and Xp, and Longhorn). Treating it as a new OS gives you the impression that you're buying something new, with new features, better stability, and so on.

I'll bet ya 10.3 will be worth US$ 129,99

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
I bet (and hope really) 10.3 is a paid-for new OS.

You want to pay $129 every year or more for point upgrades?

[Freg3000]

I'll buy it, for the box. I love the boxes....

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
You want to pay $129 every year or more for point upgrades?

That's the point: I think it's a new OS, not an upgrade.... Adding stuff like force feedback, or removing bugs = upgrades.
Rebuilding the kernel, adding new features (like Quartz Extreme in Jag) = new OS.
Ofcourse I don't know what these new features will be, but I'm sure they'll be worth the $129,99 box! :D

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
That's the point: I think it's a new OS, not an upgrade.... Adding stuff like force feedback, or removing bugs = upgrades.
Rebuilding the kernel, adding new features (like Quartz Extreme in Jag) = new OS.
Ofcourse I don't know what these new features will be, but I'm sure they'll be worth the $129,99 box! :D

Hmm, okay your just a bit nutz.:p That's okay though since Apple likes the Crazy Ones. They said so themselves. I think that an OS should not be over $99.95 and that the student version should be half that.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Hmm, okay your just a bit nutz.:p That's okay though since Apple likes the Crazy Ones. They said so themselves. I think that an OS should not be over $99.95 and that the student version should be half that.

Wow.... $49.99 for Panther. Less features for students, I suppose... :D

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
That's the point: I think it's a new OS, not an upgrade...

So Apple should release a brand new OS every year and charge $129 for it? 10.2 came out in AUGUST!!

BTW, when I think 'new OS' I think System 7 to OS8 or OS9 to OSX or Win95 to Win98 or WinMe to WinXP.

Those are truly new OS releases. OS 10.1 to 10.2 was not a new OS but a significantly upgraded version of the same one. Apple can do a point upgrade every 8 months to a year. What they cannot do is release a true new OS every year. Even if they could, nobody (especially businesses who might otherwise be interested in new Mac hardware) is going to shell out $129 a year to keep their machine running the newest OS.

It's a ridiculous frequency, and will scare away potential switchers as well as current Mac owners who'd like to get new Mac hardware (example: "I'd like to get a new iMac, but OSX updates cost $129/year. I'll stick with my old PowerMac running OS 8.5").

If you look at MS, they release a new OS about every three years. Why would Apple, already charging a premium for hardware, charge a crippling 3x rate on its OS as well? TCO would be through the roof!