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yzedf
May 18, 2003, 03:46 PM
I may be silly reminding the rumor hungry horde ;)

But the 970 is nothing more than a wish / hope / dream right now. Nothing has been announced by IBM, or Apple, stating that the 970 is destined for the Macintosh.

Sorry to be a thrill kill...

How many of us "knew" that the G5 was coming, and that it would slay Intel / AMD ?

edesignuk
May 18, 2003, 03:49 PM
I know...:(...but folks can dream can't they? :p

MacBandit
May 18, 2003, 03:53 PM
It's definitely gotten out of hand lately hasn't it. With people saying it will be released for sure in June blah, blah, blah. People put too much trust in rumors. No wonder Apple hates them.

Kwyjibo
May 18, 2003, 04:14 PM
yeah, i'm also a bit sick of the weekly threads on how pp lare sure that the 970 will be in the powerbook soon. asking if they can upgrade their pmac to a 970 and When will we seethe 970. These are jsut my opinions, but ppl need to relax a bit.

thank you for starting this thread yzdef.

strider42
May 18, 2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
I may be silly reminding the rumor hungry horde ;)

But the 970 is nothing more than a wish / hope / dream right now. Nothing has been announced by IBM, or Apple, stating that the 970 is destined for the Macintosh.

Sorry to be a thrill kill...

How many of us "knew" that the G5 was coming, and that it would slay Intel / AMD ?

this isn't exactly news, sorry to rain on your parade. While nothing has been announced, is there anyone who actually thinks the 970 isn't coming to the mac. Rumors are often based on absolutely nothing, based on unsubstantiated "sources". This one is more solid than that. We know apple needs a new chip, we know of nothing from moto that fits the bill, IBM has been very public about the 970 and its attributes, we know its a powerPC, 32 bit compatible and has altivec. Lets just say if apple doesn't use the 970, a lot of people in the computer industry, not just mac rumor mongerers, would be absolutely shocked.

Laslo Panaflex
May 18, 2003, 04:23 PM
/agree with strider, 970 is not just a rumor its fact. The rumors as to when it comes out are the ones to watch, nobody knows when it will be released. I see no reason why apple would not go forward and step into the 21st century with a new chip insted of using a 4 year old one.

Steradian
May 18, 2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Laslo Panaflex
I see no reason why apple would not go forward and step into the 21st century with a new chip insted of using a 4 year old one. What? that makes no sense...x86 has been around far longer than PPC...

MacBandit
May 18, 2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by strider42
this isn't exactly news, sorry to rain on your parade. While nothing has been announced, is there anyone who actually thinks the 970 isn't coming to the mac. Rumors are often based on absolutely nothing, based on unsubstantiated "sources". This one is more solid than that. We know apple needs a new chip, we know of nothing from moto that fits the bill, IBM has been very public about the 970 and its attributes, we know its a powerPC, 32 bit compatible and has altivec. Lets just say if apple doesn't use the 970, a lot of people in the computer industry, not just mac rumor mongerers, would be absolutely shocked.

Just because we don't know of another option doesn't mean there isn't one. You are talking about an industry that is built around secrecy. Also just because it is the logical conclussion in no way makes it fact.

rainman::|:|
May 18, 2003, 05:02 PM
yeah this kind of gets to me too-- even if you're pretty damn sure the 970 is powering all of Apple's current test units, you have to kind of allow that they might not be-- just because you wish it does not make it so. i definitely think it will probably be the 970, but still...

and i think the current timeline rumors are BS... absolutely nothing to back themselves up with, that i've seen...

pnw

MacBandit
May 18, 2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
yeah this kind of gets to me too-- even if you're pretty damn sure the 970 is powering all of Apple's current test units, you have to kind of allow that they might not be.............


I would take that even one step further. Even if you could verify without a doubt that Apple had test units with PPC970s in them there is still no fact that they will ever release a computer with one in it. Apple always keeps there options open.

vniow
May 18, 2003, 05:19 PM
I have to agree, all the 970 hoopla is getting a bit out of hand, everyone knows that the 970 is a real chip and whatnot but nobody excecpt the people inside Apple and IBM know juat what exactly is going on with that chip, there's a pretty good chance that its going to be used in a future Mac, but then again Chimera had a pretty good chance of making its way into an Apple-branded browser too...

And does anyone else find it rather intresting that all the recent 970 rumors are coming from mostly one site, MacBidouille?

Here's a track record I made of every rumor from them that's made it to the main page or Page 2 of Macrumors.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26308

DakotaGuy
May 18, 2003, 05:23 PM
Well if there is no PPC 970 then what is there? I guess Apple could do another round of G4 bumps using the 7457 processor I have read about. It is supposed to clock higher then the current 7455 G4, but I don't think it has a lot of new tech except more L2 and L3 cache. I don't know, something like the Moto 7457 might be good for the laptops or the consumer line, but I just don't see anymore G4's in towers. They just are not selling anymore. From everything I have read the PPC 970 has Apple "written all over it" but you are right we don't know until the sheet is pulled off.

cb911
May 18, 2003, 06:57 PM
i think that the PPC 970 is definitely coming. ArsTechnica is positive that Apple will use it, but it's just a matter of when.

i have to admit that at first i got caught up in all the rumors of PowerBook's with 970's... but what are rumors for?:P

but i'm over all the hype now. it will get here whenever it does, and that's soon enough for me.

strider42
May 18, 2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Just because we don't know of another option doesn't mean there isn't one. You are talking about an industry that is built around secrecy. Also just because it is the logical conclussion in no way makes it fact.

If I may refer you back to what I wrote, I never once called it fact. In fact, I openly admit its a rumor, but one based on actual evidence freely available (unlike most rumors posted on this site). Its is much MORE logical to conclude the most likely chip apple will be using for the future is the 970 based on what we know about it.

I mean, really, whats the point of this thread. Just want to stand up and say "you all talk about it likes it fact but its not so nah, nah, nah, nah, nah". We ALL absolutely 100% are already aware thats its just rumor. I mean, its pretty obvious since nothing official has come out. But do you offer any reasonable alternative theory. Nope. I am pretty sure the 970 will be used by apple, so are plenty of industry insiders. We'll all find out in the coming months.

I might also point out that though the chip industry has a lot of secrecy, its not all that secret. Its pretty well known what technologies are close to coming to fruition. People know what intel are are working on, we know what IBM is working on (they announced the 970 well before testing had finished). We know the G5 project from Moto was canceled. Its apple thats particularly secret, not the chip makers who don't really lose a lot by publishing their immediate plans (within reason of course). If moto had something in the pipeline, I would be shocked if we didn't know about it in some form or another. So given that as well, the logicla conclusion is to expect the 970, and not something else for which there is absolutely no evidence. And if there is something other than the 970 thats going to be used, its going to have to be one heck of a chip, so no one will be complaining anyway.

I might also point out in reference to the G5 in the begining post of this thread, that the G5 project did exist, but never panned out. We know it was cancelled, as a desktop chip anyway. The 970 is not some fanciful chip. IBM has already announced their own product offerings using it. Go to ars tehnica and read up on it, they have quite a bit of information. its a real chip, one that WILL be coming out by the end of the year if not sooner (originally it was set for the end of the year according to very public IBM announcments) The 970 is a lot further along than the G5 every was.

So yes, its a rumor, but the evidence makes it a particularly trustworthy one. Should we post warnings for every rumors that comes up that says "hey its just a rumor" and say it over and over again. We all know they are rumors, but come on, the evidence for this one is particularly impressive.

nuckinfutz
May 18, 2003, 08:49 PM
What are we supposed to do? Shut our brains down?

It's called a Hunch. Sure Apple hasn't announced it but to chastise people for piecing together information and making a deduction based on that info is silly.

So what we don't know. I'd rather have an idea about what's coming and then go from there.

I agree with Strider42 this thread is silly and I will mark it with a low score. teehee

Kwyjibo
May 18, 2003, 09:42 PM
again, i thin kthis thread has a great purpose. People are already wondering if they will be able to upgrade to a chip thats not released there needs to be a breath of the truth. Speculation is great but there are a few ppl that are taking it too far.

yzedf
May 18, 2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by strider42
If I may refer you back to what I wrote, I never once called it fact. In fact, I openly admit its a rumor, but one based on actual evidence freely available (unlike most rumors posted on this site). Its is much MORE logical to conclude the most likely chip apple will be using for the future is the 970 based on what we know about it.

I mean, really, whats the point of this thread. Just want to stand up and say "you all talk about it likes it fact but its not so nah, nah, nah, nah, nah". We ALL absolutely 100% are already aware thats its just rumor. I mean, its pretty obvious since nothing official has come out. But do you offer any reasonable alternative theory. Nope. I am pretty sure the 970 will be used by apple, so are plenty of industry insiders. We'll all find out in the coming months.

I might also point out that though the chip industry has a lot of secrecy, its not all that secret. Its pretty well known what technologies are close to coming to fruition. People know what intel are are working on, we know what IBM is working on (they announced the 970 well before testing had finished). We know the G5 project from Moto was canceled. Its apple thats particularly secret, not the chip makers who don't really lose a lot by publishing their immediate plans (within reason of course). If moto had something in the pipeline, I would be shocked if we didn't know about it in some form or another. So given that as well, the logicla conclusion is to expect the 970, and not something else for which there is absolutely no evidence. And if there is something other than the 970 thats going to be used, its going to have to be one heck of a chip, so no one will be complaining anyway.

I might also point out in reference to the G5 in the begining post of this thread, that the G5 project did exist, but never panned out. We know it was cancelled, as a desktop chip anyway. The 970 is not some fanciful chip. IBM has already announced their own product offerings using it. Go to ars tehnica and read up on it, they have quite a bit of information. its a real chip, one that WILL be coming out by the end of the year if not sooner (originally it was set for the end of the year according to very public IBM announcments) The 970 is a lot further along than the G5 every was.

So yes, its a rumor, but the evidence makes it a particularly trustworthy one. Should we post warnings for every rumors that comes up that says "hey its just a rumor" and say it over and over again. We all know they are rumors, but come on, the evidence for this one is particularly impressive.
And the 970 project could be canceled just as easily as the G5 was. The evidence is rather impressive, but it is not overwhelming by any means. And it is not like IBM needs the 970 all that much. They could just develop something else instead.

I figure that they are angling to become the sole supplier of CPU's to Apple in the near future (if the 970 is a fact). And then, maybe they look at Apple's margins, and decide that IBM needs a PPC division with a UNIX related OS that they don't have to develop! They could buy Apple, what, 10 times over?

Also remember, Apple is run by one volatile person that must have things his way. People of that nature tend to burn bridges (G5 could be a victim of that).

At this point it is all conjecture. Maybe we will get some answers in 6 weeks, or maybe we will just get a 10.3 announcement.

I will keep my fingers crossed for a Gobi powered iBook ;)

MacQuest
May 18, 2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by strider42
...I might also point out in reference to the G5 in the begining post of this thread, that the G5 project did exist, but never panned out. We know it was cancelled, as a desktop chip anyway....

Thanks for saving me the time from typing.

I almost blew a gasket when I saw "yzedf" post: "How many of us "knew" that the G5 was coming..."

Talk about beating a dead horse and a lack of insight...:rolleyes:

MacQuest
May 18, 2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
And the 970 project could be canceled just as easily as the G5 was.

...and it just gets better..:rolleyes:

I can actually hear the IQ points dropping.

Look yzedf, I am NOT one of the extremesists that thinks that the 970 is right around the corner [although I would like to be proven wrong :D ] but gimme a break!!

I would say I'm about 75% certain that the 970 will come to market on the Mac platform sometime this year given the overwhelming amount of bonafied [and obvious] "clues".

Get one...;)

MacQuest
May 18, 2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
They could just develop something else instead.

You're right. IBM does have a history of publicly announcing a project, spending a ton of time and resources on said project, just to scrap it and "develop something else instead".

Originally posted by yzedf
Also remember, Apple is run by one volatile person that must have things his way.

Yeah, SJ is quite hated. That recently posted, measly 90+% CEO approval rating in Forbes and his 80+% approval rating by Apple's shareholders are clear indications of his inability to manage and produce.

Originally posted by yzedf
People of that nature tend to burn bridges (G5 could be a victim of that).

Maybe SJ should lighten up. We need a big "softie" puppeted figurehead to run Apple at this critical point when we are waging all out war on Microsoft.

NOT!!

As for Moto's decision to kill the G5, if it was in "retaliation" for killing the clone licensing in the mid-late 90's, then it will make it all that much sweeter to sue the crap out of them for breach of contract.:D

I'm glad that the clone licenses were cancelled anyways, as I saw that as a bad move on Apple's part that would have led us down the path of Windows computers for lack of quality control.

MrJamie
May 19, 2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by yzedf
And the 970 project could be canceled just as easily as the G5 was. The evidence is rather impressive, but it is not overwhelming by any means. And it is not like IBM needs the 970 all that much. They could just develop something else instead.

*cough* What? Listen to what you're saying, it doesn't make sense. I don't recall Motorola ever showing the G5 off at numerous trade/industry shows, in fact, I don't think Motorola ever came up with anything close to usable in a desktop computer.

The fact that the 970 exists, just outside of an Apple box, while the G5, for all consumer desktop intents and purposes, never existed at all, puts worlds of difference between the two projects.

hacurio1
May 19, 2003, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Well if there is no PPC 970 then what is there? I guess Apple could do another round of G4 bumps using the 7457 processor I have read about. It is supposed to clock higher then the current 7455 G4, but I don't think it has a lot of new tech except more L2 and L3 cache. I don't know, something like the Moto 7457 might be good for the laptops or the consumer line, but I just don't see anymore G4's in towers. They just are not selling anymore. From everything I have read the PPC 970 has Apple "written all over it" but you are right we don't know until the sheet is pulled off.


I Agree. Perhaps the 970s arenít a fact for Macs, but I see no other logical way. Form what Iíve read, there is no possible way to clock the G4 any higher; furthermore, Apple has recognized the critical situation of their pro line and publicly stated that they were working on a fix. I really canít think of any other possible solution than the 970. Jumping into x86 is just sillyÖ..write and support two different OS, have a x86 chip in your pro machine and have PPC on the rest of your product lines, itís just something hard to imagine and even more of a rumor than the 970 in Macs. The 970 is not a fact (yet) but==the only logical and possible explanation for the next upgrade.

hacurio1
May 19, 2003, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Just because we don't know of another option doesn't mean there isn't one. You are talking about an industry that is built around secrecy. Also just because it is the logical conclussion in no way makes it fact.

Ok, this is just silly!
Just because we don't know of ANY ELFS doesn't mean there isn't one. You are talking about a WORLD that is built around secrecy.

This is the point of a rumor site. Just because we don't know whether the 970 will be in Macs, it doesnít mean it wonít be. Your argument can be used the other way around!
There are many things out there that we donít know about; though, As quarrelsome and involved individuals we must grasp every bit of information and build a tentative proposal of what we consider logical or close to factual (even if it isnít). Else, what is the pint of a rumor site?

MacBandit
May 19, 2003, 01:58 AM
Okay okay. Everyone is taking this way way too personal. I am not and no one else here is attacking you personally. We are just trying to pull a few of the extremists back to reality. Just calm down it's a silly friggin rumor and by some of us saying that there is still that chance that it will not pan out you people are acting like we just pissed on your mothers heads or something.:rolleyes:

MorganX
May 19, 2003, 08:42 AM
If you don't believe the reports of 970 shipping to Foxcon, which I do, there are other strong circumstantial indications:

1) The current hardware platform (G3 & G4, with max 133Mhz FSB) cannot sustain OS X into the future. Quartz Extreme will have to compete with Longhorn in 2 years (Beleive that do you? It'll probably be the end of this year). With MS smoozing up to hardware developers, MS is going after Apple's heart. Style and design of unified hardware and software. With the power and inertia of the Wintel platform. Apple must move forward now. The 970 is the only option.

2) If you believe Panther will support 64-bit computer you have to believe in the 970s or you have to beleive Panter will support AMD Opteron or Itanium becasue those are the only othe r64-bit CPUs.

3) If Apple isn't going 970, what will they show at WWDC? The iPod dock?

I don't know about this secrecy modus operandi. Maybe it's time for Apple to grow up. All it does is cause angst among its loyal users and does nothing to attract future buyers (people do budget forward you know...).

yzedf
May 19, 2003, 11:45 AM
64bit compatibility seems worthy of something more than a minor revision change (numbering scheme). In other words, 10.2.x -> 10.3.x shouldn't be for 64bit, IMO. Unless it is something that has been built in all along... *shrug*

64bit support in Panther doesn't mean anything as far as which processor family will be used. PPC 64bit is PPC 64bit. Altivec could just easily be for native 32bit support.

G4 currently "uses" up to a 167MHz bus. This can't maintain OS X now. Video / Audio editing require bandwidth with low latencies. Dual proc and Altivec aware code will only go so far, as is now being shown.

WWDC is a developer conference. It is not normally a place to announce new hardware. That is why 10.3 announcement makes sense to me, but 970 does not. Maybe we will get a "64bit future" type of announcement, but I would truly be shocked by a 970 announcement with shipment schedule.

Given recent shipments in comparison to announcements... does it really matter much when the thing is announced?

Year of the laptop, and the flagship machine at the beginning of the year still has not been moved to the new configuration??? :rolleyes:

G4's can get faster, with better (smaller) manufacturing process.

You're right. IBM does have a history of publicly announcing a project, spending a ton of time and resources on said project, just to scrap it and "develop something else instead".
Ever heard of Lexmark. You know, the $5 billion business that IBM sold off because they did not see a future in printers. Developing the PC standard, only to let everyone else make more money at it then they did (instead focusing on traditional mainframe business).

Yeah, SJ is quite hated. That recently posted, measly 90+% CEO approval rating in Forbes and his 80+% approval rating by Apple's shareholders are clear indications of his inability to manage and produce.
Inability to produce is shown in market share change (down), as well as number of units shipped (down). That, and proving for me that the press is happier with SJ than his own shareholders is interesting. Only recent significant rise in company value is from music store. http://quote.money.cnn.com/quote/quote?symbols=AAPL&gt=5yr Which everyone knows that the music industry will take over again, at some point. http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/12/news/companies/aol_bertelsmann.reut/

Maybe SJ should lighten up. We need a big "softie" puppeted figurehead to run Apple at this critical point when we are waging all out war on Microsoft.
All out war? Who are you kidding?! The "war" was lost when Windows 95 came out. Linux poses more of a threat to Microsoft right now than Apple does. If you don't understand this, then think about where Microsoft is moving into (servers), and where Linux is best (servers).

As for Moto's decision to kill the G5, if it was in "retaliation" for killing the clone licensing in the mid-late 90's, then it will make it all that much sweeter to sue the crap out of them for breach of contract.

I'm glad that the clone licenses were cancelled anyways, as I saw that as a bad move on Apple's part that would have led us down the path of Windows computers for lack of quality control.
Who killed that revenue stream for Apple again? Oh yeah, that's right... SJ did. Oops. Apple doesn't really want to make money for a living or anything. That is the only real reason to be in business, to make your shareholders money. If it was for noble purposes, they would be a charity.

Mr. MacPhisto
May 19, 2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
I may be silly reminding the rumor hungry horde ;)

But the 970 is nothing more than a wish / hope / dream right now. Nothing has been announced by IBM, or Apple, stating that the 970 is destined for the Macintosh.

Sorry to be a thrill kill...

How many of us "knew" that the G5 was coming, and that it would slay Intel / AMD ?

Yes, but why would IBM have a version of Altivec on the chips when they don't use any programs that are enhanced for it? It is pretty much a fact it is coming. The when is up in the air, although I know Apple has had chips delivered to them because of contacts @ IBM. Feel free to be pessimistic and ignore facts, but Altivec is the surest sign publically released that its coming. Besides, if it doesn't, the Macs will die off within the next few years because Moto is not doing anything new.

strider42
May 19, 2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Okay okay. Everyone is taking this way way too personal. I am not and no one else here is attacking you personally. We are just trying to pull a few of the extremists back to reality. Just calm down it's a silly friggin rumor and by some of us saying that there is still that chance that it will not pan out you people are acting like we just pissed on your mothers heads or something.:rolleyes:

my point was that you aren't pulling any one back to reality. Everyone is fully aware its not a for sure thing, but if you really believe its not going to happen, then I think you aren't paying attention. Frankly I think its rather self righteous to stand up and say "hey, you are all talking about things you don't know for sure are going to happen". I mean, duh! welcome to a rumor site. There is absolutley no purpose for such a thread in my opinion. thats all I was trying to get across.

And anyone who thinks the 970 could just going to be canceled because the G5 was isn't paying attention either. for the 970 to be canceled would be a huge problem for IBM. They've already announced products that will use it, they've shown it. Its in production, the G5 never made it that far. its a totally different scenario. The 970 exists, it will be coming out soon, and everyone in the industry thinks apple will make use of it. Its the strongest and most substantiated rumor I've ever seen.

Whatever. This thread is taking up way too much time.

Dont Hurt Me
May 19, 2003, 12:34 PM
hey macbandit apple isnt talking, ibm almost talked, and the 970 has the exact altivec engine. Yes there are rumors everywhere but the fishkill cpu plant was just built by ibm and is known to be producing the 970 as we speek. It will also be building the newest gpu's for nvidea. Just Happens Apple has a big need for all this stuff.

MorganX
May 19, 2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
hey macbandit apple isnt talking, ibm almost talked, and the 970 has the exact altivec engine. Yes there are rumors everywhere but the fishkill cpu plant was just built by ibm and is known to be producing the 970 as we speek. It will also be building the newest gpu's for nvidea. Just Happens Apple has a big need for all this stuff.

The GPU production probably has something to do with the fact that NVidia and MS are friends again. All new Media center PCs will have an NVidia GPUs.

MorganX
May 19, 2003, 01:04 PM
>>All out war? Who are you kidding?! The "war" was lost when Windows 95 came out. Linux poses more of a threat to Microsoft right now than Apple does. If you don't understand this, then think about where Microsoft is moving into (servers), and where Linux is best (servers).<<

The war is ongoing. Apple and MS are always at war. MS is always going to take Apple seriously until it exists no more. MS knows that if Apple ever changed their business model and actually "finished" their innovations, they could make a charge at a flank.

MS knows what Apple offers that has actually lured some switchers, not a lot, but some. MS has no intention on letting a small leak grow into a huge one. They are going to war with Apple with Longhorn and any hardware developers that want to jump on board.

MacBandit
May 19, 2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by strider42
my point was that you aren't pulling any one back to reality. Everyone is fully aware its not a for sure thing, but if you really believe its not going to happen, then I think you aren't paying attention. Frankly I think its rather self righteous to stand up and say "hey, you are all talking about things you don't know for sure are going to happen". I mean, duh! welcome to a rumor site. There is absolutley no purpose for such a thread in my opinion. thats all I was trying to get across.

And anyone who thinks the 970 could just going to be canceled because the G5 was isn't paying attention either. for the 970 to be canceled would be a huge problem for IBM. They've already announced products that will use it, they've shown it. Its in production, the G5 never made it that far. its a totally different scenario. The 970 exists, it will be coming out soon, and everyone in the industry thinks apple will make use of it. Its the strongest and most substantiated rumor I've ever seen.

Whatever. This thread is taking up way too much time.


I have never once said that it's not going to happen I've just said there is no conclusive evidence that it will. Yes, there are some people that come into these forums as total novices and also very gullible and believe every word of it. Just because you aren't one of them doesn't make everyone like you. Also I too find it highly unlikely they would ever cancel the 970. Although just because they are going to make it and just because it has an integer processing unit (they cannot call it Altivec so you can't say that it is or that they have) doesn't mean it is a guaranteed processor for Apple. While I agree it is highly likely and I have agreed all along it still doesn't make it a 100% sure thing.

yzedf
May 19, 2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
I have never once said that it's not going to happen I've just said there is no conclusive evidence that it will. Yes, there are some people that come into these forums as total novices and also very gullible and believe every word of it. Just because you aren't one of them doesn't make everyone like you. Also I too find it highly unlikely they would ever cancel the 970. Although just because they are going to make it and just because it has an integer processing unit (they cannot call it Altivec so you can't say that it is or that they have) doesn't mean it is a guaranteed processor for Apple. While I agree it is highly likely and I have agreed all along it still doesn't make it a 100% sure thing.
Exactly.

IBM and Motorola both own rights to the technoloy, but Motorola owns the "Altivec" name. That is what the AIM project was (Apple-IBM-Motorola).

MacBandit
May 19, 2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
Exactly.

IBM and Motorola both own rights to the technoloy, but Motorola owns the "Altivec" name. That is what the AIM project was (Apple-IBM-Motorola).

This brings something else up that I have considerd. Now this was a year or more ago but Apple actually took a lot of the chip design in house from Motorola. If this was the case then there is no way we would no which route they are going since Apple is in no way open about there hardware development in the way that chip manufacturors are.

I'm just pointing this out as another possibility not as proof that the 970 isn't the most likely option. I'm getting tired of explaining that I am not trying to say that the 970 isn't the most likely I'm just trying to be the voice of reason saying that there is that chance though it's slim that it isn't the one and only option.

MacAficionado
May 19, 2003, 01:49 PM
That IBM would not be developing and producing the PPC 970 if there wasn't an immediate customer for it!

The fact that they mention Apple in the 970 pdf, and the employment of Altivec could either mean that Apple is going to use it or that Apple may be interested, thus pushing their case to sell the product.

Do you really think that Apple is in a position to pass on this chip, unless they have something better to revive Powermac sales SOON!

I think that if it is not this PPC 970, it better be a more powerful alternative. Either way, it will be better that being stuck at 1.42 G4.

my 2 cents

MacBandit
May 19, 2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by MacAficionado
That IBM would not be developing and producing the PPC 970 if there wasn't an immediate customer for it!

The fact that they mention Apple in the 970 pdf, and the employment of Altivec could either mean that Apple is going to use it or that Apple may be interested, thus pushing their case to sell the product.

Do you really think that Apple is in a position to pass on this chip, unless they have something better to revive Powermac sales SOON!

I think that if it is not this PPC 970, it better be a more powerful alternative. Either way, it will be better that being stuck at 1.42 G4.

my 2 cents

No I am in now way saying that Apple will pass on this chip or is even in a position to I'm just saying there could be options that we can not see as industry outsiders. Also IBM could have buyers that haven't been thought of.

sturm375
May 19, 2003, 02:19 PM
I am 90% Certian that the PPC 970 will eventually be the CPU in Apple's machines.

I am also still hoping that it will turn out to be the AMD Opteron. Call me a sucker for the under dog (Ya I root for the Cubs).

Here is some things I've picked up in the past year that keep my hopes alive.

-In the begining of RISC v. CISC, they couldn't be further apart in terms of processing philosophy. However in present day, they have both taken from each other to the point they are nearly indistinguisable from each other.

-Intel has built up from CISC processors, and continues to this day.

-AMD until the end of the K6 series, was a pure CISC processor. As of the Athlon, the core of their CPU is RISC, with an x86 emulater on the front end.

-AMD and IBM are now nearly married. AMD is still independently producing processors out of Dresden, Germany, and IBM is still producing out of Fishkill, among other I assume. However together they have one processor R&D team. AMD and IBM are co-producing the Opteron 90 nm SOI version.

-I read recently (I think it was http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9544) that it took 2 Days to port IBMs DB2 to the Opteron, and 1 programmer, 1 Week to port Unreal 2003 to do the same. This bodes well for porting Apple to the same processor (I think).

-I read (also at the .Inquire (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9552)) that the power disipation of the Opteron and Athlon64 is very low. Low enough to not really need the fan on the CPU heatsink. For some reason they are keeping a tight lid on the exact info.

-The Underdog in me would just love to see Apple and AMD take on Microsoft and Intel.


Things I am not clear on(perhaps someone can elighten me).

-What distinguishes a PPC from x86, CISC, RISC?

-How easy or hard it would be to produce a propriatory AMD Opteron/Athlon64 chipset, and remove the x86 emulation for use in a Mac.



Now, like I said, I am still 90% sure the PPC 970 will be the next Apple CPU, but the Cub Fan in me is still hopefull for the AMD-Apple solution. Besides, Apple already uses an AMD solution here. (http://www.vonwentzel.net/ABS/Dissection-Extreme/index.html)

alset
May 19, 2003, 02:37 PM
This is why Apple is targeted for failing to deliver all the time. Sure, they have some serious chip issues, but no matter what they do the rumors have everyone expecting more.

Dan

yzedf
May 19, 2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by alset
This is why Apple is targeted for failing to deliver all the time. Sure, they have some serious chip issues, but no matter what they do the rumors have everyone expecting more.

Dan
IMO it is for coming out with world beating product (G3 and G4 intro) and then sitting on their collective laurels for too long.

Maybe M$ plan for DRM and "trusted computing" will give a boost to Apple in the next few years?

sedarby
May 19, 2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Laslo Panaflex
/agree with strider, 970 is not just a rumor its fact. The rumors as to when it comes out are the ones to watch, nobody knows when it will be released. I see no reason why apple would not go forward and step into the 21st century with a new chip insted of using a 4 year old one.
Because at one point, I believe it was last year that Steve Jobs said that the G4 still had a lot of life left in it.

Personally I don't believe the 970 was meant for anthing more than IBM's own blade servers and Linux workstations but I could be wrong. It seems if Apple was planning such a change that they would embrace the opportunity to let everyone know as when they originally moved to the PowerPC architecture. However, a lot of people and the meda are expecting 970's. I just hope Steve has his bodyguards on the ready if he doesn't announce this soon.

Dont Hurt Me
May 19, 2003, 04:33 PM
sedarby i think you are wrong, and if steve and the gang dont announce something soon sales will hit rock bottom,be it a g5,a 970 a AMD or my grannys old sock- bottom line the G4 is and has been stagnate. Mine has been very good to me but 2yrs ago a 733 was base now its only 1gig. in the Intel world the increase was 3x. Apple is crying for a 970 and ibm is wanting to sell chips. Same goes for nvidea they want video chips for pc's and macs. My suggestion is for apple and nvidea to move next door to the IBM fishkill plant and then make screaming computers with videocards that blow away everyone else.( All in one Machine named apple that is)

MacsRgr8
May 20, 2003, 05:13 PM
My 2 cents:

Apple has been falling behind (speedwise, that is) to PC hardware ever since Motorola's G4 was stuck @ 500 Mhz (18 ********** months!!!).
We, the rumor-readers and other Apple-enthousiasts, are fed-up with this fact, and see this PPC 970 as the light at the end of the tunnel.
Why?
1) It's a PPC
2) It has an SIMD unit (Altivec)
3) Apple was "mentioned" by IBM (not sure of this, but people have seen this on the pdf)
4) 64 bits (a first in consumer OS, gotta be Apple first)
5) It's fast!
6) WHAT THE CRAP ELSE CAN IT BE?

Most of us are against the Marklar project, forseeing Apple hardware sales drop, and no developers writing software for another x86 OS... and so on.
We also want to keep the PPC and want to COMPETE with x86, instead of joining 'em.
And above all:
Motorola have stated that there will be no "G5" for computers. There is no alternative.

MacBandit
May 20, 2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
My 2 cents:

Apple has been falling behind (speedwise, that is) to PC hardware ever since Motorola's G4 was stuck @ 500 Mhz (18 ********** months!!!).
We, the rumor-readers and other Apple-enthousiasts, are fed-up with this fact, and see this PPC 970 as the light at the end of the tunnel.
Why?
1) It's a PPC
2) It has an SIMD unit (Altivec)
3) Apple was "mentioned" by IBM (not sure of this, but people have seen this on the pdf)
4) 64 bits (a first in consumer OS, gotta be Apple first)
5) It's fast!
6) WHAT THE CRAP ELSE CAN IT BE?

Most of us are against the Marklar project, forseeing Apple hardware sales drop, and no developers writing software for another x86 OS... and so on.
We also want to keep the PPC and want to COMPETE with x86, instead of joining 'em.
And above all:
Motorola have stated that there will be no "G5" for computers. There is no alternative.

Well stated and I agree to all of that expect the very last line. How do you know that there are no alternatives? Do you work for Apple?

Dont Hurt Me
May 20, 2003, 06:33 PM
Thats true they could be using my grannys old sock

MacBandit
May 20, 2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Thats true they could be using my grannys old sock

EXACTLY!!!:p

The point is none us are insiders and we don't know what options they may or may not have.

MacsRgr8
May 21, 2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Well stated and I agree to all of that expect the very last line. How do you know that there are no alternatives? Do you work for Apple?

I mean: no "obvious" alternatives. If there were "another" PPC out there, we would have heard about it by now, wouldn't we? x86 is not obvious.
The only "other" highly secret possiblity is an Apple-made cpu ????

MacBandit
May 21, 2003, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
I mean: no "obvious" alternatives. If there were "another" PPC out there, we would have heard about it by now, wouldn't we? x86 is not obvious.
The only "other" highly secret possiblity is an Apple-made cpu ????

Well it wouldn't be Apple made but it could certainly be co-designed. Like I have said I agree that the 970 is the most likely candidate but I don't agree that it is a sure thing. With Apple anything is possible and it's all a bunch of rumours blowing in the wind.

MacsRgr8
May 21, 2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Well it wouldn't be Apple made but it could certainly be co-designed. Like I have said I agree that the 970 is the most likely candidate but I don't agree that it is a sure thing. With Apple anything is possible and it's all a bunch of rumours blowing in the wind.

That's true.
That's why we love the rumor-sites. :D

MacBandit
May 21, 2003, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
That's true.
That's why we love the rumor-sites. :D

Well I wouldn't be here if it weren't originally for the rumours. It's become much more since then and in fact I pay far less attention to the rumours but all in all that is the draw of this site isn't it.

MacsRgr8
May 21, 2003, 01:45 AM
Yep.
Still, it's fun. :)

Bengt77
May 21, 2003, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Thats true they could be using my grannys old sock

I'm pretty darn sure they will actually use it. The PPC970 is hulluva slow compared to her sock, isn't it? So yes, I believe that rumour (?) to be true.

Granny's sock for president!

By the way, is a sock feminine? If so, it would be the first female president. How do you call that? A presidess? A predidentess?

:D

MacBandit
May 21, 2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Bengt77
I'm pretty darn sure they will actually use it. The PPC970 is hulluva slow compared to her sock, isn't it? So yes, I believe that rumour (?) to be true.

Granny's sock for president!

By the way, is a sock feminine? If so, it would be the first female president. How do you call that? A presidess? A predidentess?

:D

President isn't masculine or feminine so there would be no need for a change in the title.

I agree though that Granny's Sock sounds like the best choice all around. There's no chance of Palladium with it.

The Shadow
May 22, 2003, 05:30 AM
I think the 970 will no longer be a rumor after the WWDC.

It will be announced as part of the Apple plan. That's if Steve wants to keep all the businesses who have been holding off switching to (god forbid) windows boxes - they need confirmation, soon. I get the feeling many businesses have been holding off for about a year.

So let's wait and see, shall we?

yzedf
May 22, 2003, 09:40 AM
Problem is, Wintel users don't have to wait over a year for something better to come along. The update cycle is much faster. And now, it is not just a clock speed thing, but improving the entire architecture of the system (faster bus speeds, SATA, etc).

ikari
May 23, 2003, 05:02 PM
We need a big "softie" puppeted figurehead to run Apple at this critical point when we are waging all out war on Microsoft.

How about spongebob squarepants?


Just Kidding:)