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European Countries Up Pressure On iTunes, FairPlay

MacRumors

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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30,847


Norway's Consumer Ombudsman has declared that Apple's Fairplay digital rights management system used in Apple's iTunes and iPod is illegal, according to a report at out-law.com.

While the declaration is not legally binding, pressure is increasing on iTunes in Europe with consumer groups in Germany and France recently joining Norway's action against Apple. France has previously pushed legislation aimed at opening up closed DRM systems such as Apple's Fairplay. Apple originally called that law "state-sponsored piracy." Other countries reported to be involved in pressuring Apple are Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and the U.K.

The common goal of the complaints seems to be around the desire for consumers to be able to purchase music or videos from the iTunes store and use it on any device, not just Apple's. Apple has yet to license Fairplay, although some companies have taken cracks at reverse-engineering the protection.

Background Information: Original Norwegian Complaint
 
Article Link
https://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/24/european-countries-up-pressure-on-itunes-fairplay/
W

w00master

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,126
345
More reason to open things up. I know this isn't a popular sentiment on this website/forum, but imho it's the "right thing to do."

"If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own."
- Steve Jobs

w00master
 
echeck

echeck

macrumors 68000
Apr 20, 2004
1,831
21
Boise, Idaho
I think this is ridiculous.

Apple's not forcing anyone to use iTunes. If you want to use it then buy an iPod as well, I see nothing wrong with this.
 
longofest

longofest

Editor emeritus
Jul 10, 2003
2,924
1,682
Falls Church, VA
The Omsbuden appears to have reversed its original stance. Originally, it wasn't looking like it was going to force Apple to open up FairPlay
 
C

cgc

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2003
718
23
Utah
I suppose they will sue BMW now because you can't use Ford parts on them. Why isn't Microsoft getting sued for something similar (e.g. WMP, Office, etc.)?
 
W

w00master

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,126
345
cgc said:
I suppose they will sue BMW now because you can't use Ford parts on them. Why isn't Microsoft getting sued for something similar (e.g. WMP, Office, etc.)?
Click to expand...

IMHO, they should be.

Data is data in my book, and no device should hold back what YOU want to do with YOUR data.

w00master
 
W

w00master

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,126
345
cgc said:
I suppose they will sue BMW now because you can't use Ford parts on them. Why isn't Microsoft getting sued for something similar (e.g. WMP, Office, etc.)?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just don't buy the "car parts" analogy. How bout I turn it around with this? What if you could only buy one type of TOOTHPASTE for the TOOTHBRUSH that you bought? Think that would be RIGHT?

Nope.

w00master
 
Robbouk

Robbouk

macrumors newbie
May 7, 2005
14
0
Nottingham, UK
I recall the EU wanted to make MS make a Windows version without WMP.
Click to expand...

They actually did. It's called Windows XP Home N, which is the same price as normal XP home, just without the Media Player bundled.

In all fairness, I own an iPod, an iMac and download my music legally off iTunes. Because I have purhcased this music, why shouldn't I be able to put it onto a PSP, or play it on my mobile phone?
 
S

SciTeach

macrumors regular
Apr 18, 2006
103
0
NEK
I'm not liking this "I want to be able to play my music anywhere" junk. If you want to play songs from iTunes, buy an iPod. If you want to play it on other devices that use other software, use those devices. Seems that they want Apple to make the cake and then give it away. Buzz! Wrong Answer!
 
nemaslov

nemaslov

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
753
9
San Francisco
The tide is shifting. From this weeks' major music industry convention in Canne France, several of the major record companies are talking about opening up their catalogs without any DRM. Allowing people to download MP3s (yes that's right) with NO restrictions. They feel that it would actually spur on sales (too little too late??).

If that indeed happens, Apple may have to eventually open up since they won't be able to blame the record companies for limitations
 
W

war

macrumors member
Dec 23, 2005
34
0
Chicago
Didn't they learn anything from Plays for Sure

Didn't Microsoft already demonstrate that licensing DRM for music files doesn't work very well with its "plays for sure" problems? They even gave it up with the Zune and tied it down just like the iPod. So, these European countries now are hoping that Apple will do better with it than MS did. Isn't the better idea to do away with DRM altogether? It's funny how people don't learn anything even though factual information of its high failure rate is easily found.
 
eenu

eenu

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2006
1,157
0
Manchester, UK
this is all bull****!!!

There are loads of places to buy music from.....if you don't own an ipod you have plenty of places to purchase from! Those who purchase from iTunes own ipods! Simple.

This makes me very VERY angry indeed!

They should be doing the same to MS and others that license to single or limited devices if they want to do this to apple
 
Stella

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,838
6,341
Canada
These countries are only to be congratulated.

As sooner Apple are forced to open up fairplay, the better.

- You aren't forced to use only one type of petrol for a particular type of car
- Any CD / DVD will work in any CD or DVD player

You should be able to play digital music on any device you like.
 
J

jakaj

macrumors member
Oct 12, 2006
53
0
It's sad to see how people not only do nothing when their rights are taken from them, but actually support the companies when they do it.
 
W

w00master

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,126
345
SciTeach said:
I'm not liking this "I want to be able to play my music anywhere" junk. If you want to play songs from iTunes, buy an iPod. If you want to play it on other devices that use other software, use those devices. Seems that they want Apple to make the cake and then give it away. Buzz! Wrong Answer!
Click to expand...

And why is that? Sorry, I don't buy the "just buy an iPod" answer either. It's DATA on my COMPUTER and MY MUSIC PLAYER. I should be able to play it where I want to.

Also, answer this: why is it I can play SOME of my music anywhere, but not ALL of it? How is this a good user experience? Isn't a "great user experience" supposed to be the hallmark of Apple?

Again let's hear it from Steve Jobs himself:

"If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own."
- Steve Jobs

w00master
 
S

sccaldwell

macrumors member
Nov 10, 2003
34
0
evilgEEk said:
I think this is ridiculous.

Apple's not forcing anyone to use iTunes. If you want to use it then buy an iPod as well, I see nothing wrong with this.
Click to expand...

I agree 1000%. There are other options for buying, managing, and playing digital music. If you want to go with Napster and a Zune, that's your choice....good luck with it.

I'd bet money that behind the scenes, Micro$oft and makers of other MP3 players are lobbying hard for this type of legal maneuvering...

Craig
 
J

jakaj

macrumors member
Oct 12, 2006
53
0
Also, it's kind of interesting to see how when anti-monopoly and "open standards" initiatives target Microsoft, foolish followers of the Mac religion say how good it is, yet when the same happens to Apple, suddenly you "always have another option"...
 
W

whatever

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2001
880
0
South of Boston, MA
w00master said:
IMHO, they should be.

Data is data in my book, and no device should hold back what YOU want to do with YOUR data.

w00master
Click to expand...

Alright, this is just another example of Europe being backwards, again.

There is nothing preventing me from playing music that I purchase from the iTunes store on a Zune, CD Player or as a ring-tone.

w00master is not completely correct in saying that "data is data in my book, and no device should hold what YOU want to do with YOUR data."

Yes, technically today I can do anything I want with the data on my iPod, however it's not my data. I do not hold the copyrights. I cannot use this music commercially or illegally share it.

I feel as if these countries are just trying to screw with a sucessful American company which has figured out how to make money in the music industry.

I wonder why they don't go after the video game industry in the same way. Cause you know w00master claims that data is data and I believe that PS 3, X-box 360 and WII games are just a bunch of 0's and 1's.
 
W

w00master

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,126
345
sccaldwell said:
I agree 1000%. There are other options for buying, managing, and playing digital music. If you want to go with Napster and a Zune, that's your choice....good luck with it.
Click to expand...

So, if you bought a digital photo online on your Mac, you wouldn't have a problem if your printer couldn't print it?

sccaldwell said:
I'd bet money that behind the scenes, Micro$oft and makers of other MP3 players are lobbying hard for this type of legal maneuvering...

Craig
Click to expand...

Funny, b/c MS's DRM scheme is also being investigated as well.

w00master
 
Stella

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,838
6,341
Canada
You cannot compare the software across incompatible to music**. It is simply ludicrious.

** I want to play Sony games on XBox argument.


--

If these European countries change their laws, Apple will have to "do what Romans do, when in Rome ".. otherwise withdraw.

Oh, also, this WILL apply to ALL digital music NOT just Apple.

--

"
I feel as if these countries are just trying to screw with a sucessful American company which has figured out how to make money in the music industry."

YOU ARE PARANOID!!!!!!! That is a simple minded oppinion.


whatever said:
Alright, this is just another example of Europe being backwards, again.

There is nothing preventing me from playing music that I purchase from the iTunes store on a Zune, CD Player or as a ring-tone.

w00master is not completely correct in saying that "data is data in my book, and no device should hold what YOU want to do with YOUR data."

Yes, technically today I can do anything I want with the data on my iPod, however it's not my data. I do not hold the copyrights. I cannot use this music commercially or illegally share it.

I feel as if these countries are just trying to screw with a sucessful American company which has figured out how to make money in the music industry.

I wonder why they don't go after the video game industry in the same way. Cause you know w00master claims that data is data and I believe that PS 3, X-box 360 and WII games are just a bunch of 0's and 1's.
Click to expand...
 
J

jakaj

macrumors member
Oct 12, 2006
53
0
whatever said:
There is nothing preventing me from playing music that I purchase from the iTunes store on a Zune, CD Player or as a ring-tone.
Click to expand...

Really? How can I play songs purchased from iTunes on my no-name mp3 player?

whatever said:
I wonder why they don't go after the video game industry in the same way. Cause you know w00master claims that data is data and I believe that PS 3, X-box 360 and WII games are just a bunch of 0's and 1's.
Click to expand...

That would be a good thing, yes. But there are justified technological and practical limitations to that. However, the same does not apply for DRM, it's actually more work to implement it.

BUT, if you look on another area, document formats are becoming open standards based.

Do you also find it normal if Word documents can't be opened on a Mac, and vice versa?
 
S

SciTeach

macrumors regular
Apr 18, 2006
103
0
NEK
w00master said:
And why is that? Sorry, I don't buy the "just buy an iPod" answer either. It's DATA on my COMPUTER and MY MUSIC PLAYER. I should be able to play it where I want to.

Also, answer this: why is it I can play SOME of my music anywhere, but not ALL of it? How is this a good user experience? Isn't a "great user experience" supposed to be the hallmark of Apple?

Again let's hear it from Steve Jobs himself:

"If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own."
- Steve Jobs

w00master
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying and your point of view, but I can't play PS3 games on an XBox 360. Why? It's business. I can still listen to the radio for free, but why do people pay $$$ to Sirius radio. Because it is a different medium and has different options (mostly, no commercials). I buy songs legally from :apple: and I still buy CDs. Most of my collection is from CDs. I chose to use a Mac and iTunes and iPods.
 
M

maxp1

macrumors regular
Feb 12, 2005
204
0
I hesitate to enter this fray, but data on your computer doesn't mean that you have the right to do anything you want with it. Just like any other media it is still subject to the restrictions that you entered into when you purchased that data. If you don't like the restrictions, buy the data somewhere else, there's nothing stopping you, especially with music where you have numerous options for other purchasing, including CD and ripping your own.

The electronic format of the data is analogous to the physical format. If you bought a CD, don't expect to be able to play it on your LP player. I think the same thing hold true in this situation.
 
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