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MacRumors
Jan 25, 2007, 07:18 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Earlier today brought reports (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/25/iphone-to-be-rogers-exclusive-in-canada/) that Rogers would be providing the iPhone to Canadian customers. This confirms a word-of-mouth forum post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3271698&postcount=14) made last week. Of interest, the post provided a little more information about the market dynamics between Apple and Rogers.

Apparently, the [Canadian iPhone] prices won't be much higher than the US versions (just currency conversion I guess) and that they aren't allowed to subsidize the cost of the phone relative to your contract (ie you won't save more by signing a longer contract) as is customary with most phones

When Apple announced the $499 and $599 prices for the 4GB and 8GB iPhone with a 2 year contract, many assumed (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/9379/ ) that this was a subsidized cost from Cingular. In the U.S., high end mobile phones are typically discounted several hundreds of dollars by cell phone carriers when customers sign up for 1-2 years of service. An earlier CNN Money article (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/12/16/iphone-and-cell-phone-market-dynamics/) discussed this balance of power and how Apple could disrupt it with their phone:

Device manufacturers reportedly don't like [this discount/subsidy system] in that it devalues their phone, and gives them less control on how to market their phone and accessories. .... Apple's entry into the market could convince consumers to pay a premium for their cell phone.

Indeed, the $499/$599 pricepoints may simply represent full retail prices for the Apple iPhone. If Cingular is not providing these substantial subsidies for the iPhone, it paves the way towards today's rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/25/atandt-cingular-to-give-away-18-months-of-iphone-service/) that Cingular may be significantly discounting the monthly service for the iPhone. Without being permitted to discount the phone itself, Cingular can afford to discount the service as an alternative incentive to attract outside customers.

Assuming all this is true, Apple's incentive to keep iPhone prices high might be the expectation that they will introduce more products based on the same technology (touchscreen iPod). Prices of these standalone devices would be harder to justify if they were compared to discounted/subsidized iPhone prices.

[ digg this (http://digg.com/apple/Why_the_iPhone_Costs_so_Much) ]



Frisco
Jan 25, 2007, 07:22 PM
Good bye Sprint, hello Cingular!

Sprint, your service was pathetic anyway :mad:

What was the reason was I waiting for a change in service?
Okay now I remember: Apple Inc!

bigbossbmb
Jan 25, 2007, 07:29 PM
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I would switch immediately if they offer free/discounted service for iPhone customers...

Dale_Nx26
Jan 25, 2007, 07:29 PM
i still don't get why we have to be stuck with cingular. I like cingular but i dont want to feel like I am being trapped.

I'm also still unclear about ppl who has contracts/plans with cingular already. Is there a fee to change phone? I have an unlocked phone but do i have to make a new plan if i want the iphone?

iSee
Jan 25, 2007, 07:32 PM
So, If Cingular gives away the service, how exactly do they make their money???

A couple hundred dollars off a phone amounts to > $10 / month over a two-year contract, even given that a cell phone company has to front the $200, but collect over time.

So, the best case is that Cingular could afford to discount their regular rates slightly for a phone they didn't sell at a discount.

Sorry, but I think the idea of 18 months of free service is wishful thinking.

arn
Jan 25, 2007, 07:33 PM
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I would switch immediately if they offer free/discounted service for iPhone customers...

I think people were quick to assume it was 18 months of "full service". Perhaps it will be just 18 months of basic service. Their cheapest service I see right now is $39.99 for 450 minutes.... which is still substantial.

arn

EricNau
Jan 25, 2007, 07:35 PM
I think people were quick to assume it was 18 months of "full service". Perhaps it will be just 18 months of basic service. Their cheapest service I see right now is $39.99 for 450 minutes.... which is still substantial.

arn

Or maybe a free data plan with the purchase of any 'talk' plan (and of course, the iPhone)?

nagromme
Jan 25, 2007, 07:41 PM
I'd love to pay full ($499) for an iPhone and have my contract with Cingular be shorter as a result :)

Though I'm intending to hold out for second-gen versions, knowing that I'll keep my phone a while.

Grakkle
Jan 25, 2007, 07:42 PM
I could imagine the iPhone being priced at $500ish, unsubsidised. After all, there are phones out there that are similar (albeit, not quite so versatile and sleek) in that price range.

If it's true, I think a price in that range would make the iPhone enormously more popular than it will be if the unsubsidised price turns out to be $1000>, as in more popular to a factor of quadruple or more.

I don't know of many people willing to drop a grand on a phone, but I'd think a lot would want to own an iPhone for $500, without having to commit to a 2 year or more contract in order to get it at that price.

jettredmont
Jan 25, 2007, 07:44 PM
Indeed, the $499/$599 pricepoints may simply represent full retail prices for the Apple iPhone. With Cingular not providing these substantial subsidies for the iPhone, it paves the way towards today's rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/25/atandt-cingular-to-give-away-18-months-of-iphone-service/) that Cingular may be giving away 18 months of service with the iPhone. Without being permitted to discount the phone itself, Cingular can afford to discount the service as an alternative incentive to attract outside customers.


Well, if it requires a 2-year contract to buy an iPhone, then Cingular's getting a 2-year contract out of the deal. Whether Apple sends the iPhones over to Cingular for $599 and the 2-year contract is just payment for the back-end work Cingular did (I think the exclusivity should have more than covered that!) or Apple is sending the iPhone to Cingular for $799 and they are eating the $200 cost as payment for the 2-year contract: I don't care. My cost is still $599 and a 2-year contract!

My point is this: the iPhone is truly unsubsidized by Cingular when I can buy it outright and use it freely, without Cingular (or any other cell phone company) service.

Now, the 18-months-free deal would of course change that, but I see that as highly unlikely. If it were true, then that would be the cheapest way to get Cingular service, plus you get a mind-blowingly awesome phone essentially free. 18 months of service at, say $30/month, is $540. Even if you need to sign on to the 2-year contract (meaning, you're paying full price for that last 6 months and have to cancel or renegotiate), that's still one hell of a deal, essentially $540 discount for a 6-month contract. I mean, hell, I'd buy one and just never use Cingular's network, at least!

I suspect, though, that the "18 months free service" is for some level of "extended visual voice mail" or whatever they'll brand the iPhone voice mail system as, instead of $10/month or so. You'll still be on the hook for the last six months of bound service, but presumably you could turn this extra feature off and live with a much less exciting phone until the contract is up (and you buy the iPhone 3rd-Generation with another contract).


Assuming all this is true, Apple's incentive to keep iPhone prices high might be the expectation that they will introduce more products based on the same technology (touchscreen iPod). Prices of these standalone devices would be harder to justify if they were compared to discounted/subsidized iPhone prices.

I don't know. If the iPhone were discounted $200 down to $399, and I had the choice between (a) buying that and selling my soul to Cingular for 2 years, and (b) buying a "non-phone" iPod for the same $399, I think I'd choose the latter. Sure, boneheads would write blogs and filler articles on how they're the same price, but some of us see multi-year contracts as a cost and economic risk, not to be signed lightly.

tangerineyum
Jan 25, 2007, 07:48 PM
im already a cingular customer and my contract ends in june. I pay my bill online and fully intend to get an iphone. That said, has any one gone into a cingular store and tried to reserve an iphone ? Cuz a deal like this can only increase the publics interest in the phone. More than technophiles are going to want it now.

MattyMac
Jan 25, 2007, 07:50 PM
:D :apple:

This is the best mac news I heard all week!

That is definitely a good strategy, and will surely bring cingular and apple many more customers having a cheaper phone plan and a sick phone.

C'mon June...HURRY UP!

Grakkle
Jan 25, 2007, 07:53 PM
If the iPhone were discounted $200 down to $399, and I had the choice between (a) buying that and selling my soul to Cingular for 2 years, and (b) buying a "non-phone" iPod for the same $399, I think I'd choose the latter. Sure, boneheads would write blogs and filler articles on how they're the same price, but some of us see multi-year contracts as a cost and economic risk, not to be signed lightly.

I agree entirely. I'd love it if the unsubsidised cost of the iPhone turns out to be lower than expected, but unless it can be bought unlocked that lower cost is essentially meaningless.

Same here about the contract thing: I don't want to sign a long contract just to get a cheap phone. It's too limiting - what if I move, for instance, or something or other changes. I don't want my life to revolve around my mobile contract.

zoltamatron
Jan 25, 2007, 08:01 PM
Damnit apple.....why won't you sell an unlocked phone!

I think apple is the only company that could've easily marketed a phone as unlocked and open to any network, but they chose to buddy up with Cingular of all people??

I just hope that perhaps the lack of price subsidy is in anticipation of marketing the phone without a carrier eventually. It would be harder for apple to justify selling the phone for 499 in a year when you could get the phone for 299 today.

arn
Jan 25, 2007, 08:02 PM
I think there's some confusion about the terminology.

What the article is saying is that the $499/$599 prices are unsubsidized. In that Apple is charging $499/$599 for the phone, and that's it.

If the iPhone was subsidized, the cost to the customer would be $499/$599 minus whatever subsidy Cingular was kicking in.

arn

LastZion
Jan 25, 2007, 08:05 PM
great news. I am currently a Fido customer (owned by ROgers) but if its not possible to use it on my network I will switch for this phone.

jettredmont
Jan 25, 2007, 08:12 PM
i still don't get why we have to be stuck with cingular. I like cingular but i dont want to feel like I am being trapped.

I'm also still unclear about ppl who has contracts/plans with cingular already. Is there a fee to change phone? I have an unlocked phone but do i have to make a new plan if i want the iphone?

While matters have changed slightly over the last couple of years, before that if you were already a customer of cell company X you were screwed. Loyalty schmoyalty!

In the last few years more companies have begun offering minor "loyalty" contract renewals, but typically the subsidy for those is around $100, fixed, instead of $150-200 depending on the phone. You're still screwed, but a little less roughly.

That having been said, I can't imagine Cingular charging anything other than Apple's advertised price at introduction. Well, I can imagine Cingular wanting to screw their customers, but I can't imagine Apple standing for it.

dongmin
Jan 25, 2007, 08:15 PM
I think there's some confusion about the terminology.

What the article is saying is that the $499/$599 prices are unsubsidized. In that Apple is charging $499/$599 for the phone, and that's it.

If the iPhone was subsidized, the cost to the customer would be $499/$599 minus whatever subsidy Cingular was kicking in.

arnSo if I get this straight...

Apple is demanding that Cingular charge $499/599 because Apple is gonna introduce more devices at lower price points.

So Cingular will offer discounts on the contract to get people to buy the iPhone. Isn't that backwards?

What about rebates? Amazon undercuts Apple with rebates even though the retail prices are the same. I can see Cingular doing something similar.

powermac_daddy
Jan 25, 2007, 08:15 PM
What a greed company! $1.99 for this. $29.99 for that. and now $599 for a damn phone? Regardless if this phone is amazing or not. Pay $600 to advanc brain cancer? ...... Materialist world.

justflie
Jan 25, 2007, 08:19 PM
I was planning on buying an iPhone anyways, but this just sounds better and better. :)

boombashi
Jan 25, 2007, 08:22 PM
I REALLY like how this story is unfolding. Here's to hoping it's true.

LaDirection
Jan 25, 2007, 08:26 PM
I used to do tech support for a GSM carrier. I remember how the first Nokia 2190 costs us A FORTUNE vs the $300 we would charge for it. We needed to keep cx's 4 years at $40 a month to make money off of it!

Everything in this story makes perfect sense and sound extremely plausible.

chicagdan
Jan 25, 2007, 08:28 PM
I think people were quick to assume it was 18 months of "full service". Perhaps it will be just 18 months of basic service. Their cheapest service I see right now is $39.99 for 450 minutes.... which is still substantial.

arn

I asked Cingular customer service last week about this ... I won't be upgrade eligible until December of this year, so I asked how will Cingular handle customers like me who want to buy the iPhone?

They replied that I would have to buy the iPhone for full retail price but would not have to extend my contract. When I pressed them on the price, they said that Apple is quoting the full retail price that does not take into account rebates and "other discounts" that they said the company would spell out later.

So I would tend to believe that the rumors are true, that Cingular is pursuing some kind of calling plan discount to woo iPhone buyers. It's also possible that there will be rebates because Apple allows retailers like Amazon to offer rebates, as long as they maintain the full retail price of items.

Also bear in mind that if you have a family plan, you aren't upgrade eligible and the iPhone new contract deal looks outrageously good, it might be worth it to add an additional line onto your account and eat the extra $10 per month. You'd have to do the math to see if your two-year savings will exceed $240.

arn
Jan 25, 2007, 08:34 PM
also... don't forget the iSuppli analysis of the phone:

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/18/apple-iphone-component-costs/

which brought the estimated cost of components at 50% of the price... this was 50% of $499, which is on target with Apple's other product margins. If the $499 price reflected a discount from cingular, then the cost of components would be closer to 30%, giving near 70% margins... which seems unlikely.

arn

shadowfax
Jan 25, 2007, 08:35 PM
What a greedy company! $1.99 for this. $29.99 for that. and now $599 for a damn phone? Regardless if this phone is amazing or not. Pay $600 to advanc brain cancer? ...... Materialist world.If you're as stingy as you sound with your money, who's the materialist? Don't be so greedy that you can't part with a load of money for a little piece of functional art. seriously, be generous. it helps the economy ;)

tk421
Jan 25, 2007, 08:37 PM
Now, the 18-months-free deal would of course change that, but I see that as highly unlikely. If it were true, then that would be the cheapest way to get Cingular service, plus you get a mind-blowingly awesome phone essentially free. 18 months of service at, say $30/month, is $540. Even if you need to sign on to the 2-year contract (meaning, you're paying full price for that last 6 months and have to cancel or renegotiate), that's still one hell of a deal, essentially $540 discount for a 6-month contract. I mean, hell, I'd buy one and just never use Cingular's network, at least!

No, you're paying full price for the phone and getting 18 months of service free. Or you could look at it like you're getting a free phone and paying full price for two years of service. You're not getting "cheap service" and an awesome phone free.

I initially thought the 18 months of free service seemed unlikely, but if Apple's contract forbids subsidising the phone, this 18 month thing seems more likely. I say MORE likely. It still seems like it's too good to be true.

iMacZealot
Jan 25, 2007, 08:38 PM
Hasn't anyone heard? It's officially AT&T, not Cingular, people.

TheIguana
Jan 25, 2007, 08:40 PM
Well if Rogers is going to pick up the iPhone, they are going to have end their stupid wireless data plan price points. $100 for 200Mb of data is just absolutely atrocious! I really do hope Apple pushes these carriers into essentially giving away service for the 1.5 years. Otherwise it is just not going to be worth it to buy an iPhone. Especially if I am not going to be able to use all its features while on the go because of a stupid cell phone company not understanding what is a stupid price point for its services.

Iggy :)

Flowbee
Jan 25, 2007, 08:41 PM
[url=http://www.macrumors.com]
Assuming all this is true, Apple's incentive to keep iPhone prices high might be the expectation that they will introduce more products based on the same technology (touchscreen iPod). Prices of these standalone devices would be harder to justify if they were compared to discounted/subsidized iPhone prices.

Good analysis, Arn. That and Apple never wants to see one of their products selling on Amazon for "$.01 with 2-year contract."

EricNau
Jan 25, 2007, 08:42 PM
Hasn't anyone heard? It's officially AT&T, not Cingular, people.

It's the "New AT&T", haven't you heard? ;)

chicagdan
Jan 25, 2007, 08:42 PM
No, you're paying full price for the phone and getting 18 months of service free. Or you could look at it like you're getting a free phone and paying full price for two years of service. You're not getting "cheap service" and a awesome phone free.

I initially thought the 18 months service seemed unlikely, but if Apple's contract forbids subsidising the phone, this 18 month thing seems more likely. I say MORE likely. It still seems like it's too good to be true.

It's not too good to be true if they do what Arn suggests -- give you a basic contract at that price. Add in more minutes and a data plan and AT&T will make a very nice profit off your business. I sense the AT&T wants to hook us with phone service, then profit off the data.

iMacZealot
Jan 25, 2007, 08:48 PM
It's the "New AT&T", haven't you heard? ;)

True true, considering that SBC bought AT&T and liked their name better. So they are technically two different companies.

Benjamindaines
Jan 25, 2007, 08:48 PM
If they're not allowed to change the price they sell the phone for isn't that price fixing?

shadowfax
Jan 25, 2007, 09:00 PM
If they're not allowed to change the price they sell the phone for isn't that price fixing? No, price fixing is something the government does to prices of goods that other people make. Or, an organization (like Wal-Mart) can strong-arm suppliers into a certain price point, you could call that price fixing (sort of). This is a free-market economy, and if a company wants to sell its goods at a certain price point, it's free to do so. And if it consents to have its products sold by 3rd-party retailsers, it does this via a contract, in which it can stipulate the minimum price it wants to sell it at.

I think it's pretty important to realize that this is a really good thing. Look at how Cingular and other carriers devalue other companies' products by selling them for jack crap as a bundle with their service: it makes their service more expensive than it should be, and it makes consumers think that cell phones cost $0.01, or $50-100 for nice phones. This is ridiculous, and it's pretty cool that Apple is bucking this trend, if indeed they are.

JonHimself
Jan 25, 2007, 09:03 PM
WOW!! I may sound like a huge nerd at this point.. BUT... they quoted my post from another thread on the main page!! From this thread http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=268113&highlight=jonhimself Post #14

"Apparently, the [Canadian iPhone] prices won't be much higher than the US versions (just currency conversion I guess) and that they aren't allowed to subsidize the cost of the phone relative to your contract (ie you won't save more by signing a longer contract) as is customary with most phones"

Is what I posted... is that kinda cool? Or am I just weird for thinking it's cool? Hopefully someone can help me out here and let me know what I should be thinking

mac-er
Jan 25, 2007, 09:09 PM
What a greed company! $1.99 for this. $29.99 for that. and now $599 for a damn phone? Regardless if this phone is amazing or not. Pay $600 to advanc brain cancer? ...... Materialist world.

Wow! What a concept...a company that is trying to make money. Wow! Imagine that concept. Stop being so naive.

twoodcc
Jan 25, 2007, 09:24 PM
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I would switch immediately if they offer free/discounted service for iPhone customers...

well i already have cingular. i just hope i can get the iPhone and get the discounted/free service as well.....

jettredmont
Jan 25, 2007, 09:37 PM
No, you're paying full price for the phone and getting 18 months of service free. Or you could look at it like you're getting a free phone and paying full price for two years of service. You're not getting "cheap service" and a awesome phone free.

You're right. Temporary logic board overload at the thought of a cell phone company giving anything away for free.

SpaceJello
Jan 25, 2007, 09:45 PM
Having lived in Canada and the US, and used multiple celluar companies on both side of the border, it is not surprising that Rogers in Canada got the iPhone. They are really the only company that can use it to its full potential. They have the best of phones where as Bell, the other large celluar network hasn't managed to get the blackberry pearl, LG chocolate and alot of other great and popular phones.

With that said, I am not quite sure if you can apply Canadian cellular practices to American. First off, Rogers and other cellphone companies in Canada usually have a lock down on... here comes..... not 2 years but THREE years on cellular contracts. It is rather shocking compairing American practices and Canadian. For the same discounted price Americans pay for new phones in a 2 year contract, you would need to get a 3 year one in Canada a lot of times. So I think that three year contract would be a huge deterent for Canadian consumers to buy any expansive phones, let alone the iPhone.

While we complain about Cingular's 2 year contract, after looking at the 3 year Canadian one, the 2 year one doesn't look that bad. This is only smart about Apple that they aren't letting any cellular companies to lock their phone users down with some ridiculously long contracts.

What's worst? When you upgrade phones in Canada, alot of times you can KEEP your old contracts and rates...dating back to the dinosaurs. I have friends with cell phone contracts from eons ago when the cellphone was a huge brick and they pay minimal compare to any new contracts. With that, people aren't interested in getting new contracts since they keep shortening the number of hours for free weekends and weeknights for example in newer contracts.

And when you do want to get a new contract, it's cause of a new phone with the subsidize pricing... actually iPhone's price is priced competitively compared to other smartphones/palms/blackberries in the canadian market with no contracts.

In order to keep their sweet old deal, many people do turn to unlocked phones instead of going after some new ones or upgrading etc.

It would be interesting to see how this pans out.

P.S. one pet peeve of mine is the number of logos on phones from American networks compare to the Canadian usual of none. I am glad the iPhone won't be sporting the Cingular/AT&T logo. It will just ruin it.

Philberttheduck
Jan 25, 2007, 09:49 PM
Not sure if this is exactly news, but the 1.5 years of service rumors has been officially debunked.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/rumor-smashed-iphone-will-not-come-with-15-years-of-free-service-231636.php

So I guess that means service could come at a reduced price?

powermac_daddy
Jan 25, 2007, 10:12 PM
If you're as stingy as you sound with your money, who's the materialist? Don't be so greedy that you can't part with a load of money for a little piece of functional art. seriously, be generous. it helps the economy ;)

i have no problems with my money. In fact i have many apple products here, right in front of me a 30", down the table a mac pro.

i was talking about $599 for a phone? it doesn't matter if it's a piece of art or design. but there are many people out there can't afford a phone like that. if you wanna get deep into this conversation. you're welcome.

oh yeah, you were talking about art. tell me what do you know about art and design.

Benjamindaines
Jan 25, 2007, 10:13 PM
Not sure if this is exactly news, but the 1.5 years of service rumors has been officially debunked.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/rumor-smashed-iphone-will-not-come-with-15-years-of-free-service-231636.php

So I guess that means service could come at a reduced price?

The Cingular rep makes a reference to getting hard over the rumors haha wow

Analog Kid
Jan 25, 2007, 10:13 PM
The one thing I'm worried about with the iPhone is the cost of service-- I don't mind paying $500 for the device, I just don't want to get gouged monthly. If Cingular can bring their service plan to something reasonable I might buy in.
It's the "New AT&T", haven't you heard? ;)

I think it was "The New AT&T" when SBC changed it's name a long time ago. I think it's "The New New AT&T" now...

Frankly that was the worst decision they could have made-- I had no preconceived notions about Cingular, but I know I hated AT&T. I don't associate them with Alexander Graham Bell, I associate them with getting screwed on international calling rates.

Stella
Jan 25, 2007, 10:13 PM
WOW - Apple knows no bounds...

3rd party controlled Smartphone - the first of its kind ( due to apparently - because you'll crash the entire cellular network - ******** - btw- its impossible. )

Now, Apple want you to pay full price for the phone but to be SIM locked to one provider....
with MULTI-YEAR CONTRACTS!!!!

****ing 'tards.

The iPhone deserves to fail, badly. Its nothing more than a toy.

aswitcher
Jan 25, 2007, 10:15 PM
I really hope we get some compertition down under.

Stella
Jan 25, 2007, 10:15 PM
Fido used to have excellent data plans.. until it got bought by Rogers... now they are sky high..

They are having a laugh - pasted straight from fido.ca:

Combine any of these options
with your monthly package. Monthly charge


1 MB
$22 per additional MB $12

3 MB
$10 per additional MB $25

7 MB
$6 per additional MB $40

25 MB
$6 per additional MB $60

200 MB
$5 per additional MB $100

$50 USED TO GET YOU UNLIMITED DATA!!!!

I wonder how long until Rogers will nerf Fido's excellent monthly contracts?

Well if Rogers is going to pick up the iPhone, they are going to have end their stupid wireless data plan price points. $100 for 200Mb of data is just absolutely atrocious! I really do hope Apple pushes these carriers into essentially giving away service for the 1.5 years. Otherwise it is just not going to be worth it to buy an iPhone. Especially if I am not going to be able to use all its features while on the go because of a stupid cell phone company not understanding what is a stupid price point for its services.

Iggy :)

iMacZealot
Jan 25, 2007, 10:16 PM
I think it was "The New AT&T" when SBC changed it's name a long time ago. I think it's "The New New AT&T" now...

Frankly that was the worst decision they could have made-- I had no preconceived notions about Cingular, but I know I hated AT&T. I don't associate them with Alexander Graham Bell, I associate them with getting screwed on international calling rates.

Not really because all they did was buy Cingular. There was no merger and Cingular did not buy the New AT&T (SBC.)

The one I really hate is Qwest. Their DSL went out every hour (not kidding) when we had them.

technicolor
Jan 25, 2007, 10:34 PM
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/rumor-smashed-iphone-will-not-come-with-15-years-of-free-service-231636.php

Oshawapilot
Jan 25, 2007, 11:03 PM
I agree with others sentiments - unless Rogers/Fido lower the cost of data in Canada, the iPhone will be little more then a rich mans playtoy.

Some people may buy it uninformed at how ridiculous the cost of data in Canada really is, only to quickly find out come their first bill.

There will be alot of people who may own an iPhone, but find themselves unable to enjoy the media rich nature of it for fear of going over on their data.

$100 for 200 meager megabytes? $60 for 25 megs? Get real, Rogers!

I've got a Hiptop/Sidekick on a Fido plan with Unlimited data for $20 per month here in Canada - unsurprisingly Rogers recently killed the Hiptop product line in Canada, not giving me much hope that they intend to offer remotely affordable mobile data in Canada anytime soon.

When all of the cellular carriers in Canada rape their customers for data rates in the stratosphere, I look at the iPhone as something that I'd like to have, but will likely never actually own.

I could afford $100 per month for data, but I refuse to be raked over the coals.

SiliconAddict
Jan 25, 2007, 11:18 PM
I'll never pay more then $350 for a phone. I don't care if it has video, PMP, and can give me.....*coughs* never mind. First and foremost its a dang phone for me. Heck I can't even take one of these things into 2 of the clients I support because of the dang camera. I don't want a camera in my phone. I want a phone that does its telephony exceptionally well. All that other cap is filler to me.

Now this may chance now that my WM smartphone will FINALLY arrive next week, or so I'm told. I've never had a smartphone before. So who knows.

gugy
Jan 25, 2007, 11:58 PM
I am the customer Cingular (ATT) is after. I have Verizon for 4 years and I love the iPhone. BUT:
I had Cingular (PacBell) prior to my Verizon and it was sucks, no reception at home and office.
I have friends that complain to this day about Cingular reception and they live near to where I live.

So, I am willing to test the iPhone and see if this Cingular(AT&T) service is any better now. This rumored plan is very exciting and it would make me buy 2 iPhones. So I hope it's true. The current plan model just doesn't work. iPhones are expensive and on top of that 2 years contract to a possible suck service is a deal breaker IMHO.
My Verizon plan expires in March and I'll be paying month by month until the iPhone comes out. Let's see, maybe I'll be a switcher.

SilvorX
Jan 26, 2007, 12:03 AM
great news. I am currently a Fido customer (owned by ROgers) but if its not possible to use it on my network I will switch for this phone.
From what it sounds like, you might have to switch, although Rogers does own Fido now, you still can't use a phone you purchased from Fido (without getting it unlocked) and use it on Rogers (not talking about the "expanded network) with a Rogers SIM.

This might peeve off some Rogers customers because what Rogers will do is demand THREE year contract when you buy the phone, with a plan with a low amount of minutes for $30/month, then the system access fee.. taxes.. etc.. which will be racked up easily, and btw.. want to get out of the Rogers contract a few months after buying the phone? Tough luck, unless if you want to pay $400 for the Early Cancellation Fee (that takes effect as of Feb 1 for anyone who renews their contract as of then, with a minimum of $100 if you're not done your contract)

The iPhone is seeming less and less tempting for me, although I'd love to get it, but the strings attached to it aren't pretty for me. I'll just get a Pearl or something instead.

Well if Rogers is going to pick up the iPhone, they are going to have end their stupid wireless data plan price points. $100 for 200Mb of data is just absolutely atrocious! I really do hope Apple pushes these carriers into essentially giving away service for the 1.5 years. Otherwise it is just not going to be worth it to buy an iPhone. Especially if I am not going to be able to use all its features while on the go because of a stupid cell phone company not understanding what is a stupid price point for its services.

Iggy :)

I was reading on a Mobile forum and there have been rumours of huge cuts in data prices in the next few months since the Pearl came out since wireless number porting becomes law in Canada in just under 2 months time, that and the Blackberry Pearl and other devices are really starting to become more than just business devices so there's a larger demand now for data, thats why we saw $100 for 60MB a year or so ago to 100MB then not even 6 months ago to 200MB.


Annnnnyway, I know Rogers will have a 3 year contract, since a chunk of their plans ALONE require a renewal of a 3 year contract, I just signed up for a SUPPOSEDLY 250 min/6pm n&w for $20 the other day.. but we'll see in 2 bills from now...

Remember all.. there IS wifi on the iPhone though! so you don't NEED the $100 200MB data plan!

Anywho.. I'll stay with Rogers for many years to come, although their coverage could be much better in my part of the country and I've had more dropped calls with them than any other carrier, and theyre just starting to get wifi enabled phones lately to their line, so its about time things are changing.

R0bert
Jan 26, 2007, 12:46 AM
"they aren't allowed to subsidize the cost of the phone relative to your contract"

The key word is "relative". $499/$599 IS the subsidized price, but you can't get a lower price by signing a longer contract (or by paying more per month).

Besides, do you really want to be stuck with iPhone 1.0 in 3 or 4 years ?

MacRumorsReader
Jan 26, 2007, 12:50 AM
I hadn't figured there to be any "free service" with the purchase of Apple's iPhone.

I originally paid $450 for my Nextel Motorola 7520 Blackberry and my month fees were $55. I get unlimited data and 1350 minutes.

I don't have a problem paying $600 for Apple's iPhone since I think that the value of the iPod and the "breakthrough internet device" is worth that much. BUT, I am NOT going to pay a <insert word of choice>load of money per month to turn it into a phone with limited (speed/quantity) data capabilities.

If the monthly isn't less than 60 bucks, I'm walking.

SeaFox
Jan 26, 2007, 01:35 AM
I think people were quick to assume it was 18 months of "full service". Perhaps it will be just 18 months of basic service. Their cheapest service I see right now is $39.99 for 450 minutes.... which is still substantial.
arn

If they don't offer anything cheaper than $39.95 that's sad. I pay $29.95 right now with T-Mobile, and that was after I upgraded from a $19.95/mo plan when I first got my phone.

backspinner
Jan 26, 2007, 01:38 AM
why is everyone talking about subsidizing the plan? if they do not have to pay for the phone, the rates of the plan are yust the rates of the plan...

these will be cheaper because no need to get back the money for the phone, but this is not subsidizing at all :confused: :confused: :confused:

SeaFox
Jan 26, 2007, 01:47 AM
also... don't forget the iSuppli analysis of the phone:

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/18/apple-iphone-component-costs/

which brought the estimated cost of components at 50% of the price... this was 50% of $499, which is on target with Apple's other product margins. If the $499 price reflected a discount from cingular, then the cost of components would be closer to 30%, giving near 70% margins... which seems unlikely.

arn

How can iSuppli do a cost analysis of a device that hasn't even been released yet? Whenever a major investment firm does cost analysis, their first step to, ya know, actually acquire one of the devices, and then take it apart to see what's in it.

When they came out with those figures, we didn't even know what brand of processor the iPhone had in it. I'm sure iSuppli's analysis would have to be a very rough guess at best, numbers they pulled out of their a** more likely. :rolleyes:

SeaFox
Jan 26, 2007, 01:52 AM
True true, considering that SBC bought AT&T and liked their name better. So they are technically two different companies.
No they aren't, because SBC used to be part of AT&T (the first one), and so did BellSouth and the other companies that make up the "new AT&T". It really more like a brand got passed around like a promiscuous cheerleader.

shikimo
Jan 26, 2007, 02:07 AM
The component and production prices for the iPhone are reported by iSuppli as:

--'cheap' model: 229.85 parts + 15.98 labor = 245.83 USD

--the less cheap model: 264.85 + 15.98 = 280.83 USD

Compared with the industry average of about a 20% margin on mobile phones, it seems there is indeed some room to adjust pricepoints in the coming years without cutting into anybody's benefit plan at Apple. Not to mention the virtual certainty of decreased component prices this year...taking this into account and reviewing iSuppli's method and reputation, as well as the positive reaction of other analysts, I think it's at the very least in the ballpark. It's bad business for consulting firms to release bunk estimates, so they tend to do their homework.

So indeed there is no subisdy, no money to be recouped through a long contract; just a lot of profit for Apple and ATT, which is after all why they're both in business. Having said that, I'm withholding all judgment until we see how the thing PERFORMS. I'm skeptical, but it wouldn't be the first time Apple came up with something that turned out to be worth what seemed like a hefty pricetag (like my 3rd-gen 15G iPod, who still kicks out 3-4 hours on a charge after 5 years of continuous use on the original battery; I'd pay $299 in 2001 dollars for that kind of performance anytime).

Stella
Jan 26, 2007, 02:29 AM
When, before Rogers took over Fido, Fido had an unlimited plan for just $50....

A bargin... unfortunately, Rogers put a stop to that.


I was reading on a Mobile forum and there have been rumours of huge cuts in data prices in the next few months since the Pearl came out since wireless number porting becomes law in Canada in just under 2 months time, that and the Blackberry Pearl and other devices are really starting to become more than just business devices so there's a larger demand now for data, thats why we saw $100 for 60MB a year or so ago to 100MB then not even 6 months ago to 200MB.
changing.

Poff
Jan 26, 2007, 03:41 AM
I'd love to pay full ($499) for an iPhone and have my contract with Cingular be shorter as a result :)

Though I'm intending to hold out for second-gen versions, knowing that I'll keep my phone a while.

Me too. No 1gen for me, as we have no idea yet if any serious bugs will come up..

NewSc2
Jan 26, 2007, 04:38 AM
What a greed company! $1.99 for this. $29.99 for that. and now $599 for a damn phone? Regardless if this phone is amazing or not. Pay $600 to advanc brain cancer? ...... Materialist world.

I agree! I also understand all the people against your post, but all I have to say that -- although I understand a capitalist economy (i graduated with an chem/econ degree, after all), it doesn't mean that it's right. Read Adam Smith again and he outlines it all out for you. Just because a company makes profit and a government protects the natural laws doesn't make it right, and Smith says it himself.

GreasyWeasel
Jan 26, 2007, 05:18 AM
I asked Cingular customer service last week about this ... I won't be upgrade eligible until December of this year, so I asked how will Cingular handle customers like me who want to buy the iPhone?

They replied that I would have to buy the iPhone for full retail price but would not have to extend my contract. When I pressed them on the price, they said that Apple is quoting the full retail price that does not take into account rebates and "other discounts" that they said the company would spell out later.

So I would tend to believe that the rumors are true, that Cingular is pursuing some kind of calling plan discount to woo iPhone buyers. It's also possible that there will be rebates because Apple allows retailers like Amazon to offer rebates, as long as they maintain the full retail price of items.

Also bear in mind that if you have a family plan, you aren't upgrade eligible and the iPhone new contract deal looks outrageously good, it might be worth it to add an additional line onto your account and eat the extra $10 per month. You'd have to do the math to see if your two-year savings will exceed $240.

If this is true and it certainly sounds like it could be. This could in theory seriously shake up the whole phone world. If Apple is charging the full price for the phone and Cingular offer a special (discounted) contract since the phone will cost them nothing (unlike phones which they "give away"at the moment) to get people to sign up with them.

Effectively the iPhone could be sold unlocked by Apple and then you choose which carrier to go to. Cingular are the offical Carrier able to offer the iPhone directly with a cheap contract but it could mean we start to see other carriers offering cheap contracts without a phone. That way new unlocked iPhone customers could then be persuaded to the carrier that actually offer the best deal on the phone service. This is how the mobile phone world should work and companies such as Nokia would also be pleased since it makes their products more valuable as peoples perception of the mobile phone changes to a valuable piece of technology rather than a throw away item that they get for nothing.

I personally would love this option because with my usage I cannot stomach the huge monthly service charges simply to have a new phone.

FC3
Jan 26, 2007, 07:19 AM
"iPhone" what's the point? It's a cell phone with mediocre specifications combined with an ipod and a nice display. It won't replace my Palm Tungsten TX, which, for me, is absolutely indispensable business tool. So I and others who have become dependent on advanced electronic organizers will still need to carry two devices a Trio, or equivalent, which do far more than Apple's phone.

I will be upgrading my Motorola GSM/EDGE phone this year. It certainly won't be to an iphone, which is grossly overpriced for what little it does. I'd rather buy a GSM/EDGE/HSDPA phone for under $100 and spend the other $500 on fuel for the boat and dinner with my wife. Oh what the heck just give me the diesel. $500 enough fuel for a decent weekend on the water and a heck of a lot more fun than a cell phone.

I've been around technology since it cost as much for an 8 bit 4 K computer as it did for a car. I'm way past tech for tech's own sake. Tech has to earn it's keep.

A cell phone is just a commodity for most people. I can't see many consumers choosing the $600 phone over the $50 or free one just because of a cute display and because it plays tunes. Price is everything in the commodity market.

shadowfax
Jan 26, 2007, 07:42 AM
I'll never pay more then $350 for a phone. I don't care if it has video, PMP, and can give me.....*coughs* never mind. First and foremost its a dang phone for me. Heck I can't even take one of these things into 2 of the clients I support because of the dang camera. I don't want a camera in my phone. I want a phone that does its telephony exceptionally well. All that other cap is filler to me.

Now this may chance now that my WM smartphone will FINALLY arrive next week, or so I'm told. I've never had a smartphone before. So who knows.

Well, would you pay $600 for a "device" that converges in a way that is cooler than either of the previous devices a $350 smartphone and a $250 iPod?

BillHarrison
Jan 26, 2007, 07:55 AM
Anyone who remotely believes this rumor has OBVIOUSLY never had a cell phone, especially with Cingular.

Trust me, from vast experience, CINGULAR WANTS YOUR MONEY :D

ONLY thing I could forsee is an "Iphone" plan, around 50 bucks a month with basic plan minutes, web, etc. But you better damn well believe you will be paying that 50, it sure won't be free.

Eraserhead
Jan 26, 2007, 07:56 AM
Without subsidy on the phone the contract will be a lot more reasonable to me that sounds a lot better as I can upgrade my phone as much or as little as I want without being penalised.

GreasyWeasel
Jan 26, 2007, 08:06 AM
Without subsidy on the phone the contract will be a lot more reasonable to me that sounds a lot better as I can upgrade my phone as much or as little as I want without being penalised.

Yes, I fully agree with this. Phones should be purchased separately from the service.
I bought a router to go with my broadband service, I bought a TV to go with my TV service, I bought a landline phone to go with my landline service why should mobile phones be any different?

jettredmont
Jan 26, 2007, 08:12 AM
Frankly that was the worst decision they could have made-- I had no preconceived notions about Cingular, but I know I hated AT&T. I don't associate them with Alexander Graham Bell, I associate them with getting screwed on international calling rates.

My thoughts as well. I hate, with a passion, AT&T. Cingular's predecessor (Cellular One) screwed me over good back in the late 90's (with a cancellation policy oddly similar to AOL's old policies, ended up costing me about $100 more than it should have back when $20 of unexpected charges meant not eating that week), but the only thing keeping me from trying them again is that they are crap coverage around here. I absolutely refuse to buy any product from AT&T. Period. If you want my business, you've got to change the name.

Sorry to be petty about it, but the very name makes bile rise.

RedTomato
Jan 26, 2007, 08:25 AM
Sure, I was as excited as anyone when Jobs announced the iPhone, but now I am getting sick sick sick sick SICK of all this iPhone chat :(

Can MR not declare a temporary moratium on iphone wittering until some FACTS come out? :mad: :mad: :mad:

savar
Jan 26, 2007, 08:26 AM
What if Apple manages to upturn the most unruly mainstream electronics industry in the US?

I've always been really disturbed by the business model for cell phones and service in the US. It's looking like Apple might single-handedly set things straight, if the iPhone has even a fraction of the iPod's mass appeal.

Imagine, paying retail value for a phone, then paying for monthly service at a rate that is actually fair! It's so straightforward that it sounds totally ludicrous. Cell phone companies make a lot of money on their bizarre bundling scheme and intentionally confusing plans.

dernhelm
Jan 26, 2007, 08:58 AM
This whole crazy mess is finally starting to make some sense to me.

The iPhone costs $500-600 and Cingular will end up rebating your service for the next 2 years so you don't pay anything more than that (maybe only pay extra if you want some high-end service features, tons of data bandwidth, etc). Rather than the service subsidizing the phone, the phone is subsidizing the service.

Meanwhile Apple can release a $300-$400 iPod with the same form factor/functionality (sans phone) and no one will go gonzo that they are charging so much and you don't even get a phone.

Everybody wins.

shadowfax
Jan 26, 2007, 09:32 AM
Anyone who remotely believes this rumor has OBVIOUSLY never had a cell phone, especially with Cingular.

Trust me, from vast experience, CINGULAR WANTS YOUR MONEY :D

ONLY thing I could forsee is an "Iphone" plan, around 50 bucks a month with basic plan minutes, web, etc. But you better damn well believe you will be paying that 50, it sure won't be free. If CINGULAR WANTS YOUR MONEY, they why do they subsidize any phone to begin with?

I think you've got your rumors confused. there's one rumor about 18 months of free service. This is, indeed, BS that's been denied. But the rumor that is the topic of this thread--Apple refuses to have their phone subsidized is a possibility that is far beyond Cingular's control, however greedy they may be. And, as a cingular customer, I believe it. The service will likely be discounted in some minor way, in lieu of the phone subsidy, and of course it won't be a subsidy worth more than the phone's retail price--duh.

savar
Jan 26, 2007, 09:32 AM
A cell phone is just a commodity for most people. I can't see many consumers choosing the $600 phone over the $50 or free one just because of a cute display and because it plays tunes. Price is everything in the commodity market.

You're a business-oriented person with a business attitude. I think you're right that the iPhone won't replace current smart phones for business users. And for people who aren't loaded they probably can't justify the price. But cell phones are a status symbol, and I can see lots of people digging deep to own the "cool" phone.

whooleytoo
Jan 26, 2007, 09:40 AM
Sure, I was as excited as anyone when Jobs announced the iPhone, but now I am getting sick sick sick sick SICK of all this iPhone chat :(

Can MR not declare a temporary moratium on iphone wittering until some FACTS come out? :mad: :mad: :mad:

Just a suggestion... don't read the iPhone threads?

LastZion
Jan 26, 2007, 09:50 AM
Just a suggestion... don't read the iPhone threads?

Exactly, well said

shadowfax
Jan 26, 2007, 10:01 AM
"iPhone" what's the point? It's a cell phone with mediocre specifications combined with an ipod and a nice display. It won't replace my Palm Tungsten TX, which, for me, is absolutely indispensable business tool. So I and others who have become dependent on advanced electronic organizers will still need to carry two devices a Trio, or equivalent, which do far more than Apple's phone.

I will be upgrading my Motorola GSM/EDGE phone this year. It certainly won't be to an iphone, which is grossly overpriced for what little it does. I'd rather buy a GSM/EDGE/HSDPA phone for under $100 and spend the other $500 on fuel for the boat and dinner with my wife. Oh what the heck just give me the diesel. $500 enough fuel for a decent weekend on the water and a heck of a lot more fun than a cell phone.

I've been around technology since it cost as much for an 8 bit 4 K computer as it did for a car. I'm way past tech for tech's own sake. Tech has to earn it's keep.

A cell phone is just a commodity for most people. I can't see many consumers choosing the $600 phone over the $50 or free one just because of a cute display and because it plays tunes. Price is everything in the commodity market.

This is so amusing, hearing someone who'd spend $500 on a chemical to burn in a boat engine over the period of 2-4 days whine about a $500 phone. SO amusing, especially the whole "When I was your age, I had to walk to school through 40 miles of snow, uphill both ways, to get to school! Sheee....ut." A computer is just a commodity for most people, and and Mac's have not always been as price-competitive as they are now. And the people on this forum buy them. my old GHz Tibook was $3200 with the 1GB of RAM in 2002. It's still plugging strong, and I have no regrets. EVERYTHING you can buy is just a commodity to most people, whether it's your car, your house, your clothes, your phone, your shoes, your pen, your sunglasses. Yet, some people buy Porsches. Some people buy Gucci. Some people buy Allen-Edmonds. Some People Buy Pelikan Pens. Some people buy Oakleys... Friggin' materialist idiots, all of them! gosh!

bretm
Jan 26, 2007, 10:09 AM
i still don't get why we have to be stuck with cingular. I like cingular but i dont want to feel like I am being trapped.

I'm also still unclear about ppl who has contracts/plans with cingular already. Is there a fee to change phone? I have an unlocked phone but do i have to make a new plan if i want the iphone?

Main reason. Apple and cingular got together to create a new service unavailable on any other service. Instant voicemail. You can browse your voice mail on the screen of your phone. Listening to them in any order you want as if they were actually stored on your phone. This is an intense architecture with server and client software interacting. Cingular is sending the screen info to the phone. The phone is deciding which files on Cingular server to play.

So even if you were to unlock your phone and get it to work on Tmobile, stuff like this would be DOA.

With the system as it is, Apple has to pair up with someone. Cingular is the largest service in the US. The second is Verizon. Verizon is substantially more expensive. Tmobile is substantially less expensive, but just doesn't have the service area. Apple could've started their own cell phone company/mvo but that would be additional marketing and overhead and probably not exactly profitable. They'd have to get the service from someone, with the likely candidate Cingular. Renting the time from them would just kill any profits.

You didn't see Apple starting an internet company when the internet got big did you? Oh, wait, they did. And it bombed. It was called eWorld. All it was was AOL with Apple's name and interface on it. It was even the same phone number you dialed!

3rdEYE
Jan 26, 2007, 10:21 AM
Ha! This is the best post so far. I've been using Cingular for a while now, and yes they want MONEY! People better be ready to pay atleast 50 per month for a plan to use all those nifty features on the iPhone. Or you could try the pay per use option and get a cell phone bill the size of a car note!:)
Anyone who remotely believes this rumor has OBVIOUSLY never had a cell phone, especially with Cingular.

Trust me, from vast experience, CINGULAR WANTS YOUR MONEY :D

ONLY thing I could forsee is an "Iphone" plan, around 50 bucks a month with basic plan minutes, web, etc. But you better damn well believe you will be paying that 50, it sure won't be free.

oyah
Jan 26, 2007, 10:30 AM
"Apparently, the [Canadian iPhone] prices won't be much higher than the US versions (just currency conversion I guess) and that they aren't allowed to subsidize the cost of the phone relative to your contract (ie you won't save more by signing a longer contract) as is customary with most phones"

Any more details on when the iPhone comes to Canada? Apple.ca doesn't even have the iPhone on its web site right now...:mad:

digitalbiker
Jan 26, 2007, 10:33 AM
I wonder if Apple is really prepared to enter the cell phone market?

Apple typically doesn't discount anything. I know that when the Razr first came out it cost around $599.00 with a 2 year plan. Now you can get a new razr for free or $29.00 with a 2 year plan.

Is Apple really prepared to drop iphone prices as the technology ages? They have never done that in the past.

Apple is not letting Cingular discount the phone with a contract. So is the phone ever going to come down in price or is Apple going to keep it high priced. I suspect that if Apple chooses to go it's own way that eventually the competition will come up with cheaper similar products.

It may take a lot more than a better UI to really make a successful sustained run in this highly competitive market.

bretm
Jan 26, 2007, 10:37 AM
"iPhone" what's the point? It's a cell phone with mediocre specifications combined with an ipod and a nice display. It won't replace my Palm Tungsten TX, which, for me, is absolutely indispensable business tool. So I and others who have become dependent on advanced electronic organizers will still need to carry two devices a Trio, or equivalent, which do far more than Apple's phone.

I will be upgrading my Motorola GSM/EDGE phone this year. It certainly won't be to an iphone, which is grossly overpriced for what little it does. I'd rather buy a GSM/EDGE/HSDPA phone for under $100 and spend the other $500 on fuel for the boat and dinner with my wife. Oh what the heck just give me the diesel. $500 enough fuel for a decent weekend on the water and a heck of a lot more fun than a cell phone.

I've been around technology since it cost as much for an 8 bit 4 K computer as it did for a car. I'm way past tech for tech's own sake. Tech has to earn it's keep.

A cell phone is just a commodity for most people. I can't see many consumers choosing the $600 phone over the $50 or free one just because of a cute display and because it plays tunes. Price is everything in the commodity market.

Last time I played with any of those other devices they just plain were horrible. Even palm has lost sight of simplicity. None of them are worth smack for shuffling through photos or storing and shuffling through music. Their calendars are weak. Their general software is hard to use and inefficient. They have little memory and slow processors. The do not surf the web. They surf some bizzare stock and weather web world. Yee haw.

Oh, great they run excel or msword or something like that. Well, that's not what the phone is. Maybe in the future when apple finishes up wth the iWork suite. There's no reason for them not to. But first things first I guess.

But I will get the iPhone. My world is becoming more and more syncronized across phone, computer and ipod. I carry and old 3G ipod that only has 15 gig memory. I have a crappy Moto flip phone that syncs (sort of) with my ical, and address book. I use iPhoto for my pics along with .mac. Now if my web browser and email could also sync and operate decently on my phone along with itunes and iphoto, then 90% of my computer world would go with me wherever with the simplicity of Apple design of software and hardware. I can't ask for more than that. And at $499 for a 4 gig device with a screen that size, it's relatively cheap compared to these cruddy blackberry things running some sorty of pokey interface for $400-$500 themselves.

milo
Jan 26, 2007, 10:44 AM
Can MR not declare a temporary moratium on iphone wittering until some FACTS come out? :mad: :mad: :mad:

So you're complaining about rumors...on a RUMORS site. What a freaking genius.

Is Apple really prepared to drop iphone prices as the technology ages? They have never done that in the past.

What are you talking about? I guess you don't remember when apple was selling iPods for $499?

ncbill
Jan 26, 2007, 10:52 AM
Did everybody miss the iPhone's price on amazon.de before it was pulled?

It was something like 899 Euros.

That's the unsubidized price, not US$500.

Eraserhead
Jan 26, 2007, 10:55 AM
Ha! This is the best post so far. I've been using Cingular for a while now, and yes they want MONEY!

Or course they are a corporation, just like Apple just want your money.

People better be ready to pay atleast 50 per month for a plan to use all those nifty features on the iPhone. Or you could try the pay per use option and get a cell phone bill the size of a car note!:)

Not nessessarily, they are using this to switch people, if you can get a similar phone for $300 for $50/month for 2 years, then to get people to buy the iPhone you'd probably charge $35-$40/month for 2 years, as you get more money up front with the iPhone which helps with cashflow.

Did everybody miss the iPhone's price on amazon.de before it was pulled?

It was something like 899 Euros.

That's the unsubidized price, not US$500.

Amazon was just covering their backs, they didn't know whether $600 was the subsidised or unsubsidised price, they could always reduce the price afterwards before shipping the phone if $600 was what they charged. I'd expect the high end iPhone to be less than £400 in the UK.

arn
Jan 26, 2007, 10:59 AM
Did everybody miss the iPhone's price on amazon.de before it was pulled?

It was something like 899 Euros.

That's the unsubidized price, not US$500.

amazon doesn't know anything more than the rest of us.
They also posted iLife '07 and iWork '07 placeholders for MWSF.

arn

digitalbiker
Jan 26, 2007, 11:07 AM
What are you talking about? I guess you don't remember when apple was selling iPods for $499?

No they weren't. They were orignally released for $299.00 and $399.00. Over the life of those products Apple only dropped the price $50.00.

To address the lower priced market, Apple introduced completely different products.

Sure the original ipod added features as the price was maintained but you could never buy an original gen 1 15 GB ipod for less than $299.00.

However in the cell phone market not only do the phones add features they drop dramatically in price as they age. Like I said the Moto Razr went from $600.00 to free with contract in less than 3 years.

Is Apple really going to let the iphone do the same thing? Or instead are they going to keep the price high and slowly add minor design and feature changes.

My bet is that they control the price and never lower it by more than $50.00 for the same model as it ages. Instead they will introduce new models with fewer features to address the low cost market.

I am not sure if this approach will fly because eventually the iphone mystic will wear off and people will want one free with a contract or simply buy a close knock-off from moto when it eventually surfaces.

Eraserhead
Jan 26, 2007, 11:19 AM
No they weren't. They were orignally released for $299.00 and $399.00. Over the life of those products Apple only dropped the price $50.00.

The original 5GB iPod cost $399 (see wik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod)i)

gugy
Jan 26, 2007, 11:31 AM
The original 5GB iPod cost $399 (see wik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod)i)


yes, but the 10gb first generation was $499.

wkhahn
Jan 26, 2007, 11:52 AM
I think people were quick to assume it was 18 months of "full service". Perhaps it will be just 18 months of basic service. Their cheapest service I see right now is $39.99 for 450 minutes.... which is still substantial.

arn

Being a 4yr satisfied cingular customer, I'm glad to see the phone come their way. Looking at their rate plans and doing some quick calculations, I think the rate plan will look something like this:

500 anytime mins w/ rollover
unlimited nights/weekends
unlimited mobile-to-mobile
unlimited data
$60 per month/24 months.

This is based on Cingular bumping their 450 plan to 500 but keeping the same price and cutting the unlimited data from about $50 to $20/month.
This is based on a subsidized phone($300) with an unlimited data($50x24months) and the 450min($40x24) plan generating $2460 in total revenue. So for the unsubsidized iPhone to generate the same revenue over the same period, the monthly rate would be $81.66/month. But $500 up front and a 24 month commitment is a large pill to swallow. So they have to create a perceived value. With this all costing $60/month, they will generate $1940 over the life of the contract, which amounts to basically a free iPhone. But the increase in customers should more than offset any hit to the bottom line.

JGowan
Jan 26, 2007, 12:17 PM
PHONE PROVIDER:
Like it or not, Apple has gone with Cingular. I'm sure if Steve Jobs had the time, he'd show you all the facts and figures along with pie charts, graphs and reports to berate , mock and humiliate you--making you run out of the board room, wishing you'd never ask "Why Cingular?" Oh, you'd know WHY? He'd shove those numbers right up your boat. (That one's for NEMO fans.)

2 years is standard for all the phones I've ever walked into a store and got signed up. What's the big deal with a 2 year plan? Yeah. No one WANTS to be stuck with a provider but it's the situation now. Plus, with a MULTI-YEAR contract with Cingular (which I've read is going to be at least 3 years), it's not like you could even leave with the iPhone and go somewhere else. You'll still be Cingular in June of 2009 whether you like it or not -- IF you want to continue to use Apple's phone.

THE GOODS:
"It's an iPod, a phone and an internet mobile communicator." Compared to the current 4GB iPod mini ALONE (which retails for $200) it totally slams it. If the phone never existed, people would line up around the block for twice that much to get a 4GB touchscreen ipod that is as slick as it is. Add in the actual PHONE that does all kinds of cool stuff AND throw in the best INTERNET experience people have ever experienced on a phone before... I can't see where people are having a hard time with the device's price.

By the time this ships, Apple will have spent untold millions in R&D just bring it to market. It is a product unlike any other and serves several important functions and an all-in-one device that is incredible cool. That has value. Deal with it.

cloudnine
Jan 26, 2007, 12:17 PM
So I came across this article and I'm wondering if anyone can explain something... I'm pretty good at following the details of stuff like this, but maybe I'm missing something. Either that or the editor of the article is just a dumb twat.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/entertainment/16549843.htm

SO WHAT DOES THE IPHONE DO BETTER?

The iPhone works directly with iTunes; it downloads over ATT/Cingular's EDGE network, which is available in more parts of the country than ATT/Cingular's faster 3G network; a 2 gigabyte card costs an additional $100.


A 2 GB card? What the? I'm assuming he doesn't mean sim card... but maybe there are some new crazy advances that have gone on recently that I'm unaware of... not that you would need a 2GB sim card.

Anyway... I'll stop my rambling. Anyone know what this is all about, or is the editor talking out of his ass?

cloudnine
Jan 26, 2007, 12:22 PM
2 years is standard for all the phones I've ever walked into a store and got signed up. What's the big deal with a 2 year plan? Yeah. No one WANTS to be stuck with a provider but it's the situation now. Plus, with a MULTI-YEAR contract with Cingular (which I've read is going to be at least 3 years), it's not like you could even leave with the iPhone and go somewhere else. You'll still be Cingular in June of 2009 whether you like it or not -- IF you want to continue to use Apple's phone.

I totally agree... I just got the Blackberry Pearl when it came out for T-Mobile, and I signed up for a 2 year contract... I still paid $200 for the phone, too. It's 2 years, and that sucks, but if you're really that unhappy with the service, you can pay a cancellation fee, which is only about $150 to $175 and get out of it. But then you can't use the iPhone (until someone figures out how to unlock it... heh).

So it's not like you HAVE to use Cingular for 2 years... you can get out of it... just don't plan on using the iPhone anywhere else... (except as the widescreen video ipod) :)

cloudnine
Jan 26, 2007, 12:26 PM
No they weren't. They were orignally released for $299.00 and $399.00. Over the life of those products Apple only dropped the price $50.00.

I don't think he was talking about "originally"... the 4GB ipod photo 60gb was sold for $599 when it was first released. Same price as the 8GB iPhone.

What's the problem? :)

JGowan
Jan 26, 2007, 01:10 PM
Should a 100" Plasma cost $20,000?

Some say yes. Many say no. Generally, the ones saying no are the ones that really want it but just don't have the funds to get it. Bill Gates is enjoying his 100" Plasma, by the way.

Another type that'll say no are those in MY boat. Do I have the money to get one? Yes. Can I justify the COST vs. MY LIFE? No. I love iPods. Have owned about 6 or 7. BUT, I use a CELL PHONE once or twice a day (at the most) and have never done mobile EMAIL, INTERNET, SMS etc. I'm 40. I don't have a lot of friends who are into the whole texting thing. I like to surf the internet at home on my Apple 23" Display or chat with a few friends with iChat on the same screen. I want my phone to be simple, inexpensive and very durable as I'm a klutz. I want my phone to make calls/receive calls. Anything else is a bonus. My Motorola phone just happens to have bluetooth (bonus), I can create my own desktop and music ringtones (bonus), camera (bonus) videocamera (bonus) -- I just don't care. Will I buy an iPhone. No.

However, I know tons of folks who are on their phones constantly, Email, internet, SMS, music -- I realize that just because the iPhone doesn't fit into MY life, doesn't mean it won't fit into 10,000,000 others.

Now... where is that sixth generation 100GB iPod with the 5" touchscreen!? THAT... I could lay down $599 for.

Stella
Jan 26, 2007, 01:23 PM
If the built in apps aren't good enough for on all other smart phones , then you can install 3rd party alternatives.

What if you don't like the built in apps on the iPhone? You may not be able to get alternatives due to Apple controlling the 3rd party software environment.

Erm, "they do not surf the web" - obviously you haven't used the right devices! Some smartphones most certainly do - and very well too! Oh, ever heard of mobile Opera ( not the free edition ) - it works very well - especially for S60 and UIQ based phones.

You may not have any need to run Excel or Word on your cell phone, but others do!!!



Last time I played with any of those other devices they just plain were horrible. Even palm has lost sight of simplicity. None of them are worth smack for shuffling through photos or storing and shuffling through music. Their calendars are weak. Their general software is hard to use and inefficient. They have little memory and slow processors. The do not surf the web. They surf some bizzare stock and weather web world. Yee haw.

Oh, great they run excel or msword or something like that. Well, that's not what the phone is. Maybe in the future when apple finishes up wth the iWork suite. There's no reason for them not to. But first things first I guess.

But I will get the iPhone. My world is becoming more and more syncronized across phone, computer and ipod. I carry and old 3G ipod that only has 15 gig memory. I have a crappy Moto flip phone that syncs (sort of) with my ical, and address book. I use iPhoto for my pics along with .mac. Now if my web browser and email could also sync and operate decently on my phone along with itunes and iphoto, then 90% of my computer world would go with me wherever with the simplicity of Apple design of software and hardware. I can't ask for more than that. And at $499 for a 4 gig device with a screen that size, it's relatively cheap compared to these cruddy blackberry things running some sorty of pokey interface for $400-$500 themselves.

gugy
Jan 26, 2007, 01:43 PM
Should a 100" Plasma cost $20,000?

Some say yes. Many say no. Generally, the ones saying no are the ones that really want it but just don't have the funds to get it. Bill Gates is enjoying his 100" Plasma, by the way.

Another type that'll say no are those in MY boat. Do I have the money to get one? Yes. Can I justify the COST vs. MY LIFE? No. I love iPods. Have owned about 6 or 7. BUT, I use a CELL PHONE once or twice a day (at the most) and have never done mobile EMAIL, INTERNET, SMS etc. I'm 40. I don't have a lot of friends who are into the whole texting thing. I like to surf the internet at home on my Apple 23" Display or chat with a few friends with iChat on the same screen. I want my phone to be simple, inexpensive and very durable as I'm a klutz. I want my phone to make calls/receive calls. Anything else is a bonus. My Motorola phone just happens to have bluetooth (bonus), I can create my own desktop and music ringtones (bonus), camera (bonus) videocamera (bonus) -- I just don't care. Will I buy an iPhone. No.

However, I know tons of folks who are on their phones constantly, Email, internet, SMS, music -- I realize that just because the iPhone doesn't fit into MY life, doesn't mean it won't fit into 10,000,000 others.

Now... where is that sixth generation 100GB iPod with the 5" touchscreen!? THAT... I could lay down $599 for.


wow, my situation is identical as yours.
I love the iPhone but I won't be a hi-user to justify the cost of it. Unless Cingular offers this 1.5 year deal to help on the upfront costs. Then maybe.

I am really looking forward for the widescreen iPod with 5" screen and 120gig. That plus a normal phone will have me set. I can keep my Verizon that gives me good reception and be a happy camper.
I hope the new widescreen iPod will be here before June.

Maccus Aurelius
Jan 26, 2007, 02:03 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. There's a lot of great hardware to justify the pricetag, and the service provider is a LOT better than what I have now (T-Mobile). I'm glad the insidious Verizon has no part in this either. I think this is one of the only phones on earth that have lots of functionality remaining even if the phone portion is rendered useless by a lack of network service.

The service plan is not bad either. My sister's Sidekick comes with nice $90 bills every month. My stupid little Ericsson T610 comes with very pleasant $60 bills, and this is when I don't use it the entire month.

jettredmont
Jan 26, 2007, 02:17 PM
yes, but the 10gb first generation was $499.

Not to mention, the 60GB with a color screen (iPod photo) was $599 on launch. Today of course you can get an 80GB with much nicer features for $349.

The BS about iPods launching $299-$399 and descending $50 over the years is just that: BS.

Prices don't go down fast, but both the minimal cost of ownership and the high-end price have decreased substantially over the years ($150 and $250 decrease from peak, respectively). I would expect the same to be true of iPhone, even without considering different form factor devices (similar to nano and shuffle on iPod line).

BillHarrison
Jan 26, 2007, 02:24 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. There's a lot of great hardware to justify the pricetag, and the service provider is a LOT better than what I have now (T-Mobile). I'm glad the insidious Verizon has no part in this either. I think this is one of the only phones on earth that have lots of functionality remaining even if the phone portion is rendered useless by a lack of network service.

The service plan is not bad either. My sister's Sidekick comes with nice $90 bills every month. My stupid little Ericsson T610 comes with very pleasant $60 bills, and this is when I don't use it the entire month.

What kind of hardware is in it? I don't see anything to justify the price tag. Also, how can the service plan not be bad either? Noone even knows what it is, or if it will be unique to the iphone?

cloudnine
Jan 26, 2007, 03:28 PM
What kind of hardware is in it? I don't see anything to justify the price tag. Also, how can the service plan not be bad either? Noone even knows what it is, or if it will be unique to the iphone?

For someone like me who has been wishing for a phone that will sync flawlessly with my Mac (full contact information, iCal appointments, Notes, and now email), I totally see a justification for the pricetag. No more third party software that offers no (good) tech support, no more uninstalling and reinstalling Missing Sync, PocketMac, etc...

Not to mention, why does everyone keep downplaying the iPod part of it. It's still a 4gb or 8gb iPod video with a huge display...

If you don't like it, quit bitching about it and don't buy it. For those of us who want something that will sync flawlessly with our Mac so that we don't have to worry about losing information all the time, it's a bargain.

SilvorX
Jan 26, 2007, 04:32 PM
When, before Rogers took over Fido, Fido had an unlimited plan for just $50....

A bargin... unfortunately, Rogers put a stop to that.
I remember some people talking about it, if people had the plan back when it was available, did it end up grandfathered so they could use unlimited today?

I know of quite a few Fido users with the oldschool sweet City/Country Fido voice plans, things really have changed in the last few years sadly.

I was paying $15 less with Rogers in 2003 for nearly what I have now than I am now

shadowfax
Jan 26, 2007, 05:13 PM
If you don't like it, quit bitching about it and don't buy it. For those of us who want something that will sync flawlessly with our Mac so that we don't have to worry about losing information all the time, it's a bargain.

You know, the rest of your post was very reasonable and I agree wholeheartedly. And not to say that this segment I'm quoting isn't reasonable, but really--this thread has been so amusing, does it really need to stop?

TheIguana
Jan 26, 2007, 11:32 PM
I remember some people talking about it, if people had the plan back when it was available, did it end up grandfathered so they could use unlimited today?

I know of quite a few Fido users with the oldschool sweet City/Country Fido voice plans, things really have changed in the last few years sadly.

I was paying $15 less with Rogers in 2003 for nearly what I have now than I am now

Well if you read the fine print on the "unlimited" wording, all you were getting was 1Gb of bandwidth per month. It was later revised to 500Mb and then again to 200Mb where is stands today. What is even worse is that this has over the past few years been an industry trend to pull away from giving away large data plans in place of smaller ones for more dollars a month.

On a sidenote: I really have to say I do not understand why the CRTC allowed Rogers to buyout Fido. If anything they may have done something useful by blocking such a move. The move has done little to better the position consumers are in, in the market. Data has gone through the roof and voice plans have not been much better. And if I hear one more blurt from these guys about infrastructure costs... Particularly when they are making record profits and charging me $6.95 a month in surcharges to look after it, I am just going to explode in rage.

The iPhone may have WiFi itself, however for the most part when I am on the go, I get the erry feeling that I would for the greater part be using the EDGE connectivity. Which is why I am so concerned about Rogers pulling something stupid with their pricing schemes again. I just do not believe that they get it, considering the absolute arrogance in pricing schemes on Rogers behalf in the past.

I really really do want an iPhone, but I do not want to be forking over boat loads of cash a month to simply use the basic web features. If that is the case I may as well just use my home internet connection which I am already paying $40 a month for.

Iggy :)

Stella
Jan 27, 2007, 08:57 AM
Am I understanding Apple correctly -

They want you to buy the iPhone at full price ( outright ) - but yet, the phone is still sim locked to that cellular network provider?

Which is totally different than if I where to:
Buy at full price ( outright ) Nokia N95, provide my own sim card and I'm free to use any GSM network I wish - the phone is unlocked.
( btw - which has more features than iPhone ( i.e., including GPS and 3G ) - at the moment - by thats beside the point )

If so... hmmm, what Apple are doing stinks - a bad deal for consumers.

BillHarrison
Jan 27, 2007, 09:38 AM
For someone like me who has been wishing for a phone that will sync flawlessly with my Mac (full contact information, iCal appointments, Notes, and now email), I totally see a justification for the pricetag. No more third party software that offers no (good) tech support, no more uninstalling and reinstalling Missing Sync, PocketMac, etc...

Not to mention, why does everyone keep downplaying the iPod part of it. It's still a 4gb or 8gb iPod video with a huge display...

If you don't like it, quit bitching about it and don't buy it. For those of us who want something that will sync flawlessly with our Mac so that we don't have to worry about losing information all the time, it's a bargain.

But that was not the point of my reply to that message. He said "Alot of great hardware". I want to know what type, I am that kinda guy, I like to know those things.

As far as "Flawless" syncing being worth the price, perhaps it is, perhaps it is not, but really, apple could have built a "Flawless syncing" phone for alot less if thats your primary concern. Mine is having the ability to write / load 3rd party programs, which it appears to lack.

chicagdan
Jan 27, 2007, 09:54 AM
For someone like me who has been wishing for a phone that will sync flawlessly with my Mac (full contact information, iCal appointments, Notes, and now email), I totally see a justification for the pricetag. No more third party software that offers no (good) tech support, no more uninstalling and reinstalling Missing Sync, PocketMac, etc...

Not to mention, why does everyone keep downplaying the iPod part of it. It's still a 4gb or 8gb iPod video with a huge display...

If you don't like it, quit bitching about it and don't buy it. For those of us who want something that will sync flawlessly with our Mac so that we don't have to worry about losing information all the time, it's a bargain.

Yes by all means, please do buy the first version of the iPhone ... I'll sit tight and wait for the second or third generation version with the better data speed and enough flash memory to actually store videos and an interface that was been refined by customer feedback. Anyone still use a first generation iPod?

j763
Jan 27, 2007, 11:38 AM
Cingular is now the New AT&T...

Stephen Colbert explains (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bj1Mtv9cD0I).

shadowfax
Jan 27, 2007, 12:53 PM
But that was not the point of my reply to that message. He said "Alot of great hardware". I want to know what type, I am that kinda guy, I like to know those things.Well, I couldn't substantiate that claim. No on other than Apple, and maybe their suppliers, is totally sure what all is in the iPod. But think about what it does. This isn't vaporware, as some idiotic CEO has said. He pulled it out of his pocket and showed you what it could do--Cover flow is a memory hog on my computer, and it's a Core Duo laptop with 2 GB of RAM. Apparently the iPhone has an ARM processor, probably along with (probably several) DSPs for decoding h.264, mp3, etc.

Still, it seems like a strange thing to say--the hardware is hardly the pull. It's the interface. And this is what baffles me about the iPhone naysayers in threads like this--You all keep talking about Apple like they're Motorola or Dell or Toshiba or something. Who even cares what it's running? Mac Computers are on Intel now. That means that I can get the exact same laptop, hardware wise, as my MacBook from Dell, for $100+ dollars less. And it would be preloaded with Windows, that OS that every one uses. And if my computer were just a commodity, then I'd do that, because it's cheaper AND it's the path of least resistance.

But I am into Apple, and why? Not because it's "Alot of great hardware" (even though it is), but because the interface is intuitive and beautiful, from the hardware interface to the software interface. So we read all these completely stupid articles by people who complain, "Apple reinvents the phone? Ha! Ha! It doesn't even have any new features! Music Management? Google maps? Web Browsing? Photo Management? A Camera? Sounds like every other phone on the market to me, except it costs 2 times as much." But the hint is in the word, "reinvents." They didn't invent new features. They designed a phone that works so well that you will actually want to use those features. I have seen PDA phones before. Almost every one I'd seen looked like a big metallic turd. fugly. I realize, Stella, that Opera has a web Browser with the same feature list. Do you use Internet Explo[r/d]er? It has a pretty similar feature list to Safari. Really, most browsers do. But the test is in the use-case. It's the same with the iPod: the iPod sucks. It really, really, really sucks. Why would you want one? You could get a Zune for about the same price, and it's got WiFi. THAT'S some pretty sweet hardware. Or you could get some SanDisk or Creative thing or something, that has an FM receiver--you could be listening to the radio! so Why buy an iPod? Oh, right, that thing that people never account for in the commodity market--a good user interface. You can't underestimate the power of a good design: It's the kind of thing that makes people want to buy something they wouldn't otherwise give a crap about. Like me. I have a motorola razr, and it's a pretty phone with a terrible interface. And I knew it when I got it, because all I ever wanted to do was talk on the phone and text now and then. But looking at the iPhone demos, I feel like I might actually be interested in browsing photos on my phone, watching a video, browsing the web. Especially browsing the web, for me. That kinda thing never had a pull on me.

And it's not to say I don't have my qualms about the iPhone, but I'm an optimist--I know that prices will always come down, and that Apple always improves their products. Even though I am not waiting for a contract to end, I will certainly be waiting for revision B.

c-Row
Jan 28, 2007, 02:38 AM
I realize that just because the iPhone doesn't fit into MY life, doesn't mean it won't fit into 10,000,000 others.

I would tip my hat to you if I had one. :cool: A much more mature opinion than the "I don't need that, so no one else does either!" whining going on in almost every iPhone-related thread on MR.

So although you don't need an iPhone, you certainly deserve one. :)

FC3
Jan 29, 2007, 07:49 AM
This is so amusing, hearing someone who'd spend $500 on a chemical to burn in a boat engine over the period of 2-4 days whine about a $500 phone. SO amusing, especially the whole "When I was your age, I had to walk to school through 40 miles of snow, uphill both ways, to get to school! Sheee....ut." A computer is just a commodity for most people, and and Mac's have not always been as price-competitive as they are now. And the people on this forum buy them. my old GHz Tibook was $3200 with the 1GB of RAM in 2002. It's still plugging strong, and I have no regrets. EVERYTHING you can buy is just a commodity to most people, whether it's your car, your house, your clothes, your phone, your shoes, your pen, your sunglasses. Yet, some people buy Porsches. Some people buy Gucci. Some people buy Allen-Edmonds. Some People Buy Pelikan Pens. Some people buy Oakleys... Friggin' materialist idiots, all of them! gosh!

I use the term "commodity" as most economists and business people do. You, on the other hand, seem to use the marxist definition. I suppose I should have been more explicit with my definition, but I didn't think that after the experience of the last decade or so, that anyone found marxist theory to hold water. Oh well.

Someone else posted that a cell phone is a status symbol for some. I had not considered that. I remember that it was somewhat of a status symbol to have a cell phone back in the 1970s to mid 1980s. I still have my dad's first generation AMPS cell phone from... 1978ish? The trunk mounted electronics were in pizza box sized unit! I wouldn't have thought that some still consider it to be so. On the other hand, $600 is pretty cheap for a status symbol, so if that's you thing, go for it. It's a heck of a lot less money than a a new 911 or XK-R.

Cell phone manufacturers may want to change the sales model for telephones; however, most of the public will resist said changes unless accompanied by substantial cost reductions in cellular service. I don't see that happening anytime soon, and therefore don't think most people are going to find much compelling about an expensive portable communication appliance.

Game theory has the concept of the "zero sum game". Economics has borrowed the term. Some purchases are zero sum as the buyer has limited resources and must weigh one purchase against others. In a zero sum situation, the iPhone without subsidy loses, in my opinion, because it is a bad deal for most consumers.

Regards,
Frank

charkshark
Jan 29, 2007, 11:47 PM
I cannot wait.....I live in Canada, and when first announced I was doubtful as to the availability of the iPhone in Canada. Rogers is a very good network, I cannot wait to get one for myself!

Dash4814
Jan 30, 2007, 10:14 AM
Do you suppose that, in the not-so-distant future, Apple will simply release a few versions of the iPhone with varying levels of goodies?

They've done that with the iPod line, and I would certainly say that it's been a success. I have a 1st generation Mini that I have no intentions of replacing until it dies. For somebody who really enjoys Apple's hardware but doesn't always want or need every feature on the top of the line stuff, an iPhone Lite or something might do the trick.

shadowfax
Jan 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
Do you suppose that, in the not-so-distant future, Apple will simply release a few versions of the iPhone with varying levels of goodies?

They've done that with the iPod line, and I would certainly say that it's been a success. I have a 1st generation Mini that I have no intentions of replacing until it dies. For somebody who really enjoys Apple's hardware but doesn't always want or need every feature on the top of the line stuff, an iPhone Lite or something might do the trick.I think it will be like the iPod, if it is successful. You release one to get your feet wet, and THEN start expanding the product line to sute a wider array of customers--if the first one is a smash hit, that is...

DeathChill
Jan 30, 2007, 10:28 AM
I'd love to get an iPhone but I hate all the locking contracts crap, and it's fairly hard to justify the price for myself at the moment. However, maybe one day I'll get one of the cheaper ones. :)

Dash4814
Jan 30, 2007, 10:29 AM
I think it will be like the iPod, if it is successful. You release one to get your feet wet, and THEN start expanding the product line to sute a wider array of customers--if the first one is a smash hit, that is...

That's what I was wondering.

All the more reason to sit on my hands (and checkbook) and give this thing some time.

There's certainly nothing wrong with that sort of product evolution. I'm not going to stamp my feet and demand a lower price or anything; it's a new product and that just means some realities: it'll be expensive, it'll have some bugs, and (since it's from Apple) it'll probably sell like crazy. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. Delayed gratification, man. Hard as it is, especially with a product like that... :(

When I'm out of my Ntelos contract in a year and a half there may be something more appealing in terms of price.