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MacRumors
Jan 30, 2007, 08:11 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/30/apple-quietly-releases-802-11n-enabler/)


Along with today's iPod Shuffle line additions (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/30/apple-releases-multi-colored-ipod-shuffles/), Apple has released the promised 802.11n Enabler for compatible Macs.

The software is available via a software download (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=9BFE4FC5&nplm=D4141ZM%2FA) from the Apple Store for $1.99 unless you buy the Airport Extreme base station which includes the software at no additional cost.

The $1.99 upgrade has been the focus of some controversy (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/25/prominent-accountants-blast-apples-1-99-802-11n-upgrade-reasoning/). The update had been originally priced at $4.99 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/15/airport-extreme-air-disk-and-801-11n-upgrades-4-99/), but Apple slashed the price after an outpouring of discontent from users.

Article Link: Apple Quietly Releases 802.11n Enabler (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/30/apple-quietly-releases-802-11n-enabler/)



bbarnhart
Jan 30, 2007, 08:18 AM
Wonder how long it will take to find this on the newsgroups?

Warbrain
Jan 30, 2007, 08:18 AM
The iPod shuffles were only there to keep everyone's attention away...

Stridder44
Jan 30, 2007, 08:19 AM
Wonder how long it will take someone to hack it (free 802.11n)

iMeowbot
Jan 30, 2007, 08:24 AM
Wonder how long it will take someone to hack it (free 802.11n)

There won't be any cracking needed.

The software license for the 802.11n Enabler software allows you to install and use it on all computers under your ownership or control.
That's about as lenient as commercial software terms get. Note that you don't even have to own the computers where you install it.

mkrishnan
Jan 30, 2007, 08:27 AM
That's about as lenient as commercial software terms get. Note that you don't even have to own the computers where you install it.

I'd be willing to buy a copy of the enabler, if, for a few moments, you would all concede that I control the entire world. ;)

failsafe1
Jan 30, 2007, 08:27 AM
Great now I simply need to get a cheap N router from Circuity City or Best Buy one day

Markleshark
Jan 30, 2007, 08:28 AM
That's about as lenient as commercial software terms get. Note that you don't even have to own the computers where you install it.

Hmmmmm


all computers under your ownership or control.

hagjohn
Jan 30, 2007, 08:29 AM
I'd wait to see what happens with Leopard, to see if they just add it in the OS.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Jan 30, 2007, 08:30 AM
I'd be willing to buy a copy of the enabler, if, for a few moments, you would all concede that I control the entire world. ;)I'm not sure that is such a good deal... World domination to mkrishnan or cough up NOK 12.50...? hmm...

:p

HmmmmmNotice the 'or'...

Stridder44
Jan 30, 2007, 08:32 AM
That's about as lenient as commercial software terms get. Note that you don't even have to own the computers where you install it.


$1.99 is nothing, but I can wait for Leopard - where, I'm assuming, it will be built into the OS.

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 08:33 AM
I'd wait to see what happens with Leopard, to see if they just add it in the OS.

I'm sure all Macs shipping at this point are enabled.

mkrishnan
Jan 30, 2007, 08:34 AM
I'm not sure that is such a good deal... World domination to mkrishnan or cough up NOK 12.50...? hmm...

You've always known what the right answer is.... ;)

timmillwood
Jan 30, 2007, 08:38 AM
does this make any difference to 802.11g setups?

more reliable connectivity, faster, more range?

or is the only addition 802.11n?

Xyl
Jan 30, 2007, 08:39 AM
I'm sure all Macs shipping at this point are enabled.

Nope. From iMac Tech Specs:

Communications
Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (802.11g standard; 802.11n capable with optional 802.11n enabler)

mdntcallr
Jan 30, 2007, 08:40 AM
i just want to receive my new airport n router. so i don't pay for this. except on the hardware.

new airport looks great. want it already though

MacVault
Jan 30, 2007, 08:43 AM
If it is indeed true that the $1.99 charge is due to some accounting regulation this seems to set a terrible precedant for adding free features to software in the future. Who decides what is a feature addition and what is a bug fix?

kaeptn
Jan 30, 2007, 08:46 AM
Hi.
What, if I have two MacBooks with the 802.11n cards (+enabler). Can I use them in Ad-Hoc mode for fast data transfer? How fast would this be?

Thanks,
Fritz

Mulyahnto
Jan 30, 2007, 08:46 AM
Not that I hear a lot of fuss about it on this message board. But what is actually is all the fuss about..it's only $1.99. To me it seems both fair and appropriate to charge this nominal fee.

timmillwood
Jan 30, 2007, 08:49 AM
if itunes is free why cant this be?

abadr
Jan 30, 2007, 08:51 AM
For those having issues with throughput and certain routers, e.g. iMac 24" owners, I'd like to let you now that this makes F all difference. I still get 400kb/s throughput. What a waste of time.

I'm using a Netgear DG834N if anyone wants to know. That's a pre-N router.

gerrycurl
Jan 30, 2007, 08:51 AM
honestly speaking, i don't find it very useful considering i don't have a wireless 802.11n router. i could go buy one, but it's not even a standard yet. when you buy pre-draft hardware, it's mostly crap, sure they can update the firmware, but that will only give you so much improvement. i really think you're better off buying when the draft is completed and they've found ways to optimize the hardware. take it from someone that bought a netgear pre-draft 802.11g pcmcia card, by the third rev they got it right, the pre-draft version was just a piece of crap that they discontinued immediately. the drivers never worked on xp pro either.

also the apple extreme 802.11n draft airport station sucks ass, 100 Mbps lan, come on, what is this, the nineties?

jhedges3
Jan 30, 2007, 08:53 AM
What are the odds of coming across 802.11n routers?

Does having it affect speeds on pre-n routers?

mambodancer
Jan 30, 2007, 08:54 AM
Apple also released a Free demo game of Vortex through the iTunes store.

KindredMAC
Jan 30, 2007, 08:54 AM
There is no reason for people to buy the enabler unless they already have access to an N network. Am I correct people?????

This won't help your new MacBook or MBPro to transfer and recieve data over a current G network any faster.

I don't even believe there are any N routers out for sale yet at Best Buy or CompUSA is there????

If I am wrong about the fact that the N Enabler will not give you any kind of boost to your G Network, please someone, point me to a link that shows me otherwise so I don't sound like a fool.

But otherwise like I said, A Fool and their Money.....

$1.99 isn't a bad cost for anything like this anyways so stop whining if you can't wait for Leopard or to buy an APEXT.

abadr
Jan 30, 2007, 08:57 AM
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11n the spec is likely to be finalised in April 2008.

Like I said, I have a pre-N netgear router, and there is some major issue between it and the chip in my 24" iMac. I get speeds of around 400kb/s from any source (I have 24meg broadband). My 12" powerbook, ibook and PC download at 1.6mb/s from newsgroups, faster from each other.

Truly shocking. I know this is an issue that apple is refusing to deal with. I'm off to phone Apple Care.

iMeowbot
Jan 30, 2007, 09:01 AM
does this make any difference to 802.11g setups?
Nope.
If it is indeed true that the $1.99 charge is due to some accounting regulation this seems to set a terrible precedant for adding free features to software in the future. Who decides what is a feature addition and what is a bug fix?
This looks like a short-term fix, Apple perhaps overreacted a bit with government agents crawling all over their books. In the future they can set aside little internal charges to cover this kind of hidden feature. They could have even made an internal adjustment this time around, but that could have freaked all the wrong people given the timing.

dernhelm
Jan 30, 2007, 09:04 AM
I'd be willing to buy a copy of the enabler, if, for a few moments, you would all concede that I control the entire world. ;)

Best comment ever. Thanks for the laugh.

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 09:06 AM
There is no reason for people to buy the enabler unless they already have access to an N network. Am I correct people?????

This won't help your new MacBook or MBPro to transfer and recieve data over a current G network any faster.

I don't even believe there are any N routers out for sale yet at Best Buy or CompUSA is there????

If I am wrong about the fact that the N Enabler will not give you any kind of boost to your G Network, please someone, point me to a link that shows me otherwise so I don't sound like a fool.

But otherwise like I said, A Fool and their Money.....

$1.99 isn't a bad cost for anything like this anyways so stop whining if you can't wait for Leopard or to buy an APEXT.

Very good point. This only helps if you have an :apple:tv and are transmitting directly from your iMac. Which means your iMac would need to be ethernet connected to your internet and wireless to the :apple:tv. I think if you connect the iMac to a g router wirelessly then you won't realize the n potential between the iMac and the :apple:tv. Which doesn't make sense it should auto recognize, but Apple's literature seems to indicate it dumbs down to the slowest part of your network. None of which matters, neither :apple:tv or Airport Extremes are shipping yet.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11n the spec is likely to be finalised in April 2008.

Like I said, I have a pre-N netgear router, and there is some major issue between it and the chip in my 24" iMac. I get speeds of around 400kb/s from any source (I have 24meg broadband). My 12" powerbook, ibook and PC download at 1.6mb/s from newsgroups, faster from each other.

Truly shocking. I know this is an issue that apple is refusing to deal with. I'm off to phone Apple Care.

Most people, you maybe being a rare exception has broadband faster than 3-6 Mbps. Which is still slower than g, hell it's even slower than b. So the only thing n does for you is speed up your LAN which means you need either two n enabled machines talking directly, or one n machine with a second hardwired to an n router.

jhedges3
Jan 30, 2007, 09:07 AM
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11n the spec is likely to be finalised in April 2008.

You neglected to point out that the page says that the '802.11n Task Group reviewed and made adjustments to this timeline'.

bearbo
Jan 30, 2007, 09:07 AM
just checked out of curiosity, but the enabler is already on torrent...

ilkevinli
Jan 30, 2007, 09:08 AM
Well I purchased the enabler and ran the update. After booting into Windows however, its still only connecting at 54mbps. Im starting to wonder what exactly this update does. It doesn't seem to do any type of firmware upgrade on the wireless card because if it did, the wireless card would have been redetected in windows and it wasn't

bearbo
Jan 30, 2007, 09:11 AM
Well I purchased the enabler and ran the update. After booting into Windows however, its still only connecting at 54mbps. Im starting to wonder what exactly this update does. It doesn't seem to do any type of firmware upgrade on the wireless card because if it did, the wireless card would have been redetected in windows and it wasn't

i thought the n was enabled in windows, just not in os x... hence how ppl knew it was a n card when they boot into windows... no?

andyh2
Jan 30, 2007, 09:13 AM
Dang, I was expecting the mac pro! If its not coming out now, it'll probably come with leopard. :apple:

Nutter
Jan 30, 2007, 09:15 AM
Very good point. This only helps if you have an :apple:tv and are transmitting directly from your iMac. Which means your iMac would need to be ethernet connected to your internet and wireless to the :apple:tv. I think if you connect the iMac to a g router wirelessly then you won't realize the n potential between the iMac and the :apple:tv. Which doesn't make sense it should auto recognize, but Apple's literature seems to indicate it dumbs down to the slowest part of your network. None of which matters, neither :apple:tv or Airport Extremes are shipping yet.


My goodness, that's a lot of misinformation for one paragraph. The :apple:tv does not have a wireless access point built-in, so you need a separate wireless access point or base station to connect it to your network wirelessly. You can't transmit directly from your Mac to an :apple:tv. If you're using an access point that doesn't have 802.11n then obviously you won't get 802.11n speeds.

jelloshotsrule
Jan 30, 2007, 09:22 AM
if itunes is free why cant this be?

i went to the apple store last week and raised the same point, except instead of the 802.11n enabler being free, i was hoping they'd set me up with a mac pro (fully loaded with software of course)

swishyfresh
Jan 30, 2007, 09:23 AM
Man, the enabler is already spreading like wildfire on torrent sites... can't believe people won't shell out a buck or two.

aLoC
Jan 30, 2007, 09:26 AM
What a great week.
Microsoft releases an entirely new OS for Windows users.
Apple meanwhile insults Mac users by charging them for an f'in driver.

xUKHCx
Jan 30, 2007, 09:28 AM
Man, the enabler is already spreading like wildfire on torrent sites... can't believe people won't shell out a buck or two.

Not available in the UK

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 09:28 AM
My goodness, that's a lot of misinformation for one paragraph. The :apple:tv does not have a wireless access point built-in, so you need a separate wireless access point or base station to connect it to your network wirelessly. You can't transmit directly from your Mac to an :apple:tv. If you're using an access point that doesn't have 802.11n then obviously you won't get 802.11n speeds.

Really are you sure. I'm pretty sure you can create an Airport network between two Airport enabled Macs, so I just figured you could link the :apple:tv to it. Once you create the network, it's a network, the :apple:tv shouldn't really know the difference. But I'm no expert either.

swishyfresh
Jan 30, 2007, 09:28 AM
What a great week.
Microsoft releases an entirely new OS for Windows users.
Apple meanwhile insults Mac users by charging them for an f'in driver.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather have to pay for the driver than have to use Vista =D

Not available in the UK


It is, I've purchased it.

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/6974042/wo/IN500GUElVgM2jBT0bx1IvcDcoQ/1.0.21.1.0.8.25.7.11.0.3

jelloshotsrule
Jan 30, 2007, 09:30 AM
Man, the enabler is already spreading like wildfire on torrent sites... can't believe people won't shell out a buck or two.

not only that, but how many people actually NEED the enabler right now? as many have said, there are very few 802.11n hardware options right now, so it's just people who download everything for free even if they don't need it continuing their ways.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Jan 30, 2007, 09:33 AM
Please, do not post pirate links to the enabler!

swishyfresh
Jan 30, 2007, 09:34 AM
not only that, but how many people actually NEED the enabler right now? as many have said, there are very few 802.11n hardware options right now, so it's just people who download everything for free even if they don't need it continuing their ways.

I agree, this is more of a psychological upgrade. The user feels like if he has a n-enabled card... it should be actively working, rather than disabled. When in actual fact, with the less going on, the less likeliness for hiccups.

It boggles my mind :rolleyes:

xUKHCx
Jan 30, 2007, 09:34 AM
It is, I've purchased it.

I just rechecked and it does now appear, but for the first hour or so after the store came backup both myself and a friend could not find it on the applestore even by direct searching for the name. The exact same search that i just did, weird. Oh well, ordered it now, can't actually install it until i get back to my mac.

odedia
Jan 30, 2007, 09:35 AM
It feels like Apple it TRYING to "hint" that you can easily get this software from anywhere :)

From the product page:

"Note: The software license for the 802.11n Enabler software allows you to install and use it on all computers under your ownership or control. "

weckart
Jan 30, 2007, 09:39 AM
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11n the spec is likely to be finalised in April 2008.

Like I said, I have a pre-N netgear router, and there is some major issue between it and the chip in my 24" iMac. I get speeds of around 400kb/s from any source (I have 24meg broadband). My 12" powerbook, ibook and PC download at 1.6mb/s from newsgroups, faster from each other.

Truly shocking. I know this is an issue that apple is refusing to deal with. I'm off to phone Apple Care.

Why? What responsibility does Apple have for Netgear products? What responsibility does Netgear have for Apple firmware? Catch-22 for you, but them's the breaks with non-standard products.

Apple is only guaranteeing that pre-N speeds will work with its own router AFAIK. But thanks for Beta-testing for the rest of us :)

mousemd
Jan 30, 2007, 09:40 AM
Do you think that there will be a USB-based n-network option for the macbook pro anytime soon?

Reel1
Jan 30, 2007, 09:41 AM
There is no reason for people to buy the enabler unless they already have access to an N network. Am I correct people?????

This won't help your new MacBook or MBPro to transfer and recieve data over a current G network any faster.

I don't even believe there are any N routers out for sale yet at Best Buy or CompUSA is there????

If I am wrong about the fact that the N Enabler will not give you any kind of boost to your G Network, please someone, point me to a link that shows me otherwise so I don't sound like a fool.

But otherwise like I said, A Fool and their Money.....

$1.99 isn't a bad cost for anything like this anyways so stop whining if you can't wait for Leopard or to buy an APEXT.



The N routers have been out for a little whlie now, or at least the Linksys.

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C1&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1115416939789&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

Nutter
Jan 30, 2007, 09:53 AM
Really are you sure. I'm pretty sure you can create an Airport network between two Airport enabled Macs, so I just figured you could link the :apple:tv to it. Once you create the network, it's a network, the :apple:tv shouldn't really know the difference. But I'm no expert either.

Well, Apple could put software in the AppleTV to let it join a computer-to-computer network. But I don't think they have, because on the Apple Store one of the listed system requirements is a "wired or wireless network". That suggests you already need to have a standard wireless network, which a computer-to-computer AirPort connection is not.

Radam
Jan 30, 2007, 09:53 AM
Has anyone tried it on a CD MBP, i should assume that it still works, but on the site it says for C2D only,

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 09:56 AM
Core Duos don't have n only the Core 2 Duos do.

butaro
Jan 30, 2007, 09:56 AM
Has anyone tried it on a CD MBP, i should assume that it still works, but on the site it says for C2D only,

highly doubtful it will work, what they say is true

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 09:57 AM
Well, Apple could put software in the AppleTV to let it join a computer-to-computer network. But I don't think they have, because on the Apple Store one of the listed system requirements is a "wired or wireless network". That suggests you already need to have a standard wireless network, which a computer-to-computer AirPort connection is not.

My mistake.

GenesisST
Jan 30, 2007, 09:59 AM
My goodness, that's a lot of misinformation for one paragraph. The :apple:tv does not have a wireless access point built-in, so you need a separate wireless access point or base station to connect it to your network wirelessly. You can't transmit directly from your Mac to an :apple:tv. If you're using an access point that doesn't have 802.11n then obviously you won't get 802.11n speeds.

Can you connect to :apple:TV via a wired connection? I personally don't really trust the security of wireless networks.

But then again, that might be just because my house was robbed one time and I got about $3K of fraud on my credit card another time... :(

Update: Go my answer there:
Well, Apple could put software in the AppleTV to let it join a computer-to-computer network. But I don't think they have, because on the Apple Store one of the listed system requirements is a "wired or wireless network". That suggests you already need to have a standard wireless network, which a computer-to-computer AirPort connection is not.

dernhelm
Jan 30, 2007, 09:59 AM
The N routers have been out for a little whlie now, or at least the Linksys.

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C1&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1115416939789&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

Correction: Pre-N routers are out. The question is how compatible is one vendor's Pre-N router with another vendor's Pre-N card. That has always been one of the negatives of a 'draft' spec. Quite often, if you want the full speeds available, you need to get all your networking cards, access points, and routers from the same vendor.

The real question is how well will Apple's n-enabled cards work with someone else's pre-n access points or routers.

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 10:00 AM
Can you connect to :apple:TV via a wired connection? I personally don't really trust the security of wireless networks.

But then again, that might be just because my house was robbed one time and I got about $3K of fraud on my credit card another time... :(

Yes it has ethernet so if you have Cat5 running in your house or just a wired network, you're good.

guzhogi
Jan 30, 2007, 10:05 AM
I'm gonna wait and see if it's in Leopard. If it is, I'll save $2. Besides, I don't really need n speeds at the moment and there aren't that many n routers in use to really make it worth it.

I'll admit, I still don't like having to pay for it, but I understand the need. Just not worth the effort to fight it.

One thing I would've liked is if the Mac Mini, Airport Extreme & :apple: TV were the same size and color so they'd be stackable. But that's just me.

omnivector
Jan 30, 2007, 10:10 AM
Does ANYONE know if Macbook Pro Core duo (i.e. not Core 2 Duo) users will be able to buy a newer airport card and install it internally? I really want 802.11n support on my OLD macbook pro :(

CCStandUpFan
Jan 30, 2007, 10:11 AM
My goodness, that's a lot of misinformation for one paragraph. The :apple:tv does not have a wireless access point built-in, so you need a separate wireless access point or base station to connect it to your network wirelessly. You can't transmit directly from your Mac to an :apple:tv. If you're using an access point that doesn't have 802.11n then obviously you won't get 802.11n speeds.

From apple.com/appletv/connect.html

"Easy connectivity and built-in wireless make Apple TV right at home in your home entertainment system."

"And if you have a Mac or PC without built-in wireless capability, you can connect Apple TV to your network using an Ethernet cable (sold separately)."

and from apple.com/appletv/specs.html

"Ports and interfaces
HDMI (video and audio)
Component video
Optical audio
Analog RCA stereo audio
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
USB 2.0
802.11n wireless networking"

Seems like wired and wireless are both workable for the Apple TV.

$2 doesn't seem like much if you've already bought a newer Mac and are going to be buying the Apple TV -- ~2 songs -- no big expense

macmanca
Jan 30, 2007, 10:12 AM
the previous one from Intel Core 2 Duo for this airport "n" enabler or do we have to buy a new Airport extreme card?:confused:

Digital Skunk
Jan 30, 2007, 10:15 AM
I read that an outcry from us users spurred Apple's decision to lower the price to $1.99... so we just have to do the same thing and Apple will give us that 12" MacBook Pro, iMacPro, and full screen iPod Video with those new Hitachi 100GB hdd.

Come on guys! WE CAN DO IT! :D

k8t
Jan 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
Well I purchased the enabler and ran the update. After booting into Windows however, its still only connecting at 54mbps. Im starting to wonder what exactly this update does. It doesn't seem to do any type of firmware upgrade on the wireless card because if it did, the wireless card would have been redetected in windows and it wasn't

It's just a driver update. I have a D-Link DIR-655 draft-N router and under Windows I am able to connect at 300Mbps (actual transfer rates vary). I had to download D-Link drivers for my MBP's wireless card.

SilentPanda
Jan 30, 2007, 10:22 AM
The software license for the 802.11n Enabler software allows you to install and use it on all computers under your ownership or control.

For the first time, the Mac world wished their machines were zombie machines much like their Windows counterparts. :)

NightStorm
Jan 30, 2007, 10:22 AM
Do you think that there will be a USB-based n-network option for the macbook pro anytime soon?

I'm hoping for some sort of ExpressCard 802.11n option soon either from Apple themselves or a 3rd party.

QCassidy352
Jan 30, 2007, 10:24 AM
I can't believe all the negatives. Apple never advertised the N hardware. Nobody bought their C2D mac because it was, or might be, N compatible. So if you're happy with 802.11g, then use that. If you want the new standard, pay the TINY fee and be happy that you have the option. Stop whinning!!

mousemd
Jan 30, 2007, 10:26 AM
I'm hoping for some sort of ExpressCard 802.11n option soon either from Apple themselves or a 3rd party.

I hope so too. I feel left out in the cold ... brrrrr:eek: it's cold in NY

richard4339
Jan 30, 2007, 10:27 AM
I was considering paying this to help try and get better signals at school, but my guess is it won't do anything for me, and I'm probably going to get the new airport extreme in the next few months, so, I'll wait.

morespce54
Jan 30, 2007, 10:27 AM
Wonder how long it will take someone to hack it (free 802.11n)


There won't be any cracking needed.

True, if it's a SU, all you have to do is to get a copy (legally, of course ;))

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 10:30 AM
I can't believe all the negatives. Apple never advertised the N hardware. Nobody bought their C2D mac because it was, or might be, N compatible. So if you're happy with 802.11g, then use that. If you want the new standard, pay the TINY fee and be happy that you have the option. Stop whinning!!

I have a Mini, I am not complaining. But then again I just bought it as a holdover till Leopard. People really can't get over this idea of trying to future proof their purchases and so anyone with a CD is feeling fairly shafted. It really isn't the N aspect for internet, because that doesn't matter. But a lot of people are thinking in terms of either :apple:tv or sharing/copying files over a home network. What's funny is that people are talking about the $1.99 and enabling and all that. The reality is that unless you have a wired network, you are looking at $299 for :apple:tv and another $179 for the new Airport Extreme or some other third party (ie. less expensive) N router.

nsjoker
Jan 30, 2007, 10:32 AM
it's. two. freaking. dollars.

get over it. people will spend money on a pack of cigs but complain for stuff like this. this is not a conspiracy, this is not about principle, this is not the start of future things to come, this is not the beginning of apple starting a new business model of charging money for seemingly petty upgrades. this is none of that. what this is, is two. freaking. dollars.

Carniphage
Jan 30, 2007, 10:33 AM
Why? What responsibility does Apple have for Netgear products? What responsibility does Netgear have for Apple firmware? Catch-22 for you, but them's the breaks with non-standard products.

Apple is only guaranteeing that pre-N speeds will work with its own router AFAIK. But thanks for Beta-testing for the rest of us :)

The Airport Extreme shipped with Mac Pros and C2D iMacs are supposed to be 802.11g compatible. They are advertised as such and 802.11g is a recognised standard. Netgear, Belkin and other all comply to that standard. Apple should too.

It is reasonable to expect 802.11g speeds. Which are typically 2-6 megabytes per second.

A througput rate which maxes out at 400 K bytes per second, (which is what I am getting too) reveals that these parts fail to comply to that standard.

I now have an n-enabled Mac pro - which gets less throughput than a 802.11b equipped Powerbook from the same base station. Way to go Apple.


C.

Max Payne
Jan 30, 2007, 10:36 AM
UK here.

I downloaded a free update using automatic update. Is this the same? It was free too.

macmanca
Jan 30, 2007, 10:38 AM
Aiport Extreme Card, so the rest of us can get the "n" speed??? I also don't understand the what hardware difference there is between the Core Duo's and the Core 2 Duo's, is it the airport card??? What else could be the difference. The $1.99 is a bargain.... to get "n" speed and range!

:)

CTA7157
Jan 30, 2007, 10:49 AM
For us MBP CD owners, I found this but Belkin's website does not have any drivers available for OSX only Microsoft. But since they showed it off at MacWorld I would think they are working on them. They also have a USB version.

http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/uploads/01_08_07N1ExpressCard.html

kwood
Jan 30, 2007, 10:52 AM
UK here.

I downloaded a free update using automatic update. Is this the same? It was free too.

Let Us know.

Before purchasing the 802.11n Enabler software, please check to make sure that your Mac does not already have the 802.11n enabler already installed.

* Open Network Utility (found in the Applications > Utilities folder)
* Under the Info Tab, choose Network Interface (en1)
* In the section "Model: Wireless Network Adapter," if it says (802.11a/b/g/n), you already have the 802.11n enabler installed. If it says (802.11a/b/g), you do not have the 802.11n enabler installed.

blackpeter
Jan 30, 2007, 11:02 AM
There is no reason for people to buy the enabler unless they already have access to an N network. Am I correct people?????

This won't help your new MacBook or MBPro to transfer and recieve data over a current G network any faster.

I don't even believe there are any N routers out for sale yet at Best Buy or CompUSA is there????

If I am wrong about the fact that the N Enabler will not give you any kind of boost to your G Network, please someone, point me to a link that shows me otherwise so I don't sound like a fool.

But otherwise like I said, A Fool and their Money.....

$1.99 isn't a bad cost for anything like this anyways so stop whining if you can't wait for Leopard or to buy an APEXT.

Actually, there are plenty of pre-N routers available right now. I downloaded it because I've got a MacBook and travel frequently and am often grabbing free WiFi signals in downtown San Francisco, Washington D.C. and New York.

I suppose if you had an iMac and were on a G network, there's really no reason to spend the $2. Then again, if you're concerned with $2, then you probably can't afford a new iMac in the first place.

123
Jan 30, 2007, 11:02 AM
it's. two. freaking. dollars.


no. it's. apple. lying.

ankushpatel
Jan 30, 2007, 11:06 AM
is there anypoint me upgrading on my laptop macbook pro to 802.11n if my airport extreme base station is the old one and not the new one. if i upgrade on my laptop to the 802.11n will it make a difference even though i have the previous airport extreme base station?

?

vitaflo
Jan 30, 2007, 11:13 AM
if itunes is free why cant this be?

Because iTunes doesn't enable any dormant hardware?

kwood
Jan 30, 2007, 11:17 AM
no. it's. apple. lying.

Is it Apple Lying? Its not as if Apple advertised that the C2D computers came with 802.11n. When you purchased your C2D machine you purchased it without expectation that it would have 802.11n. Apple did not lie.

iomar
Jan 30, 2007, 11:22 AM
It is not bad.. $1.99.

ilkevinli
Jan 30, 2007, 11:24 AM
Well after installing the Atheros Drivers 6.0.2.75 in Windows, I now connect at 300mbps and get an actual throughput of approx 90mbps while using the Linksys WRT350N router.



Well I purchased the enabler and ran the update. After booting into Windows however, its still only connecting at 54mbps. Im starting to wonder what exactly this update does. It doesn't seem to do any type of firmware upgrade on the wireless card because if it did, the wireless card would have been redetected in windows and it wasn't

bloodycape
Jan 30, 2007, 11:25 AM
any way to get the core2duo airport or network on a core-duo mbp?

ilkevinli
Jan 30, 2007, 11:34 AM
Not if your strying to use the Mini-pci express slot. The Wireless N card requires 3 antennas. Yours only has 2.

any way to get the core2duo airport or network on a core-duo mbp?

Paix247
Jan 30, 2007, 11:45 AM
how 'bout an 802.11n card for my core duo macbook pro?? hmm??

sycho
Jan 30, 2007, 11:49 AM
how 'bout an 802.11n card for my core duo macbook pro?? hmm??

wow, look at the post above yours!


THE CORE DUO MACBOOKS DO NOT HAVE THE NECESSARY ANTENNAS FOR THE 802.11n CARD! YOU CANNOT UPGRADE THEM!

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 11:49 AM
You can please some of the people some of the time, but forget about pleasing all of the people all of the time, you'll never even please all of the people some of the time. We're never happy for what we can now do, only upset over what we can't and how we got screwed.

Chupa Chupa
Jan 30, 2007, 11:50 AM
Aiport Extreme Card, so the rest of us can get the "n" speed??? I also don't understand the what hardware difference there is between the Core Duo's and the Core 2 Duo's, is it the airport card??? What else could be the difference. The $1.99 is a bargain.... to get "n" speed and range!

:)

I doubt it. No current Apple has a DIY airport card. It's either built-in or BTO/requires an Apple Tech (at least officially). I can't recall when Apple has made a product specifically for a discontinued model. Usually Apple products are engineered for current machines which happen to work on some older ones. I think if you want 'n' on your older Mac you are going to have to look 3rd party.

twoodcc
Jan 30, 2007, 11:53 AM
I'd wait to see what happens with Leopard, to see if they just add it in the OS.

that's what i'm hoping for....

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 11:54 AM
I doubt it. No current Apple has a DIY airport card. It's either built-in or BTO/requires an Apple Tech (at least officially). I can't recall when Apple has made a product specifically for a discontinued model. Usually Apple products are engineered for current machines which happen to work on some older ones. I think if you want 'n' on your older Mac you are going to have to look 3rd party.

I think this is an unfortunate bridge that cannot be avoided. Core Duo and older Macs are just left back. There may be no way of avoiding it even with a third party solution due to the antenna issue. Most often Apple is able to avoid this with various solutions, this just may be one of those times when it can't be.

That said, to my understanding :apple:tv is able to work with a g enable system and router, it is just not as optimal, nor will it utilize the highest possible performance built into the unit.

Westside guy
Jan 30, 2007, 11:55 AM
wow, look at the post above yours!


THE CORE DUO MACBOOKS DO NOT HAVE THE NECESSARY ANTENNAS FOR THE 802.11n CARD! YOU CANNOT UPGRADE THEM!

The Macbooks don't have ExpressCard slots; so while he'd have to use an external USB network adapter, that certainly is doable (although inconvenient).

The older Macbook Pros, though, could use an ExpressCard NIC - assuming the drivers for OS X are available. Not as nice as a built-in solution, but not too big a deal.

Aiport Extreme Card, so the rest of us can get the "n" speed??? I also don't understand the what hardware difference there is between the Core Duo's and the Core 2 Duo's, is it the airport card???

It's probably the antennas.

indirstr8s
Jan 30, 2007, 12:03 PM
I bought the enabler and tried to install it on my core 2 duo imc 24 inches.
It says cannot install on the drive. :-((. Incedentally my HD is an upgraded
750 GB Seagate drive.

sycho
Jan 30, 2007, 12:04 PM
The Macbooks don't have ExpressCard slots; so while he'd have to use an external USB network adapter, that certainly is doable (although inconvenient).

The older Macbook Pros, though, could use an ExpressCard NIC - assuming the drivers for OS X are available. Not as nice as a built-in solution, but not too big a deal.

:rolleyes:

Neither the MacBook, or the MacBook Pro can have it's internal card upgraded for 802.11n.:rolleyes:

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 12:06 PM
I bought the enabler and tried to install it on my core 2 duo imc 24 inches.
It says cannot install on the drive. :-((. Incedentally my HD is an upgraded
750 GB Seagate drive.

Call Applecare.

MacsAre1
Jan 30, 2007, 12:08 PM
Well, Apple could put software in the AppleTV to let it join a computer-to-computer network. But I don't think they have, because on the Apple Store one of the listed system requirements is a "wired or wireless network". That suggests you already need to have a standard wireless network, which a computer-to-computer AirPort connection is not.

Keep in mind that there is another type of network besides "computer-to-computer" that can be set up without any base station. If you enable internet sharing to share your wired (or even nonexistent) connection with computers using Airport, the computer acts as a base station. Once upon a time this used to be called a "software base station." It's more limited in security options than a base station (WEP only), but it still works.

With that set up, any wireless computer sees yours as a base station. The same should go for the Apple TV. So anyone buying an Apple TV should not need to buy an airport base station.

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 12:11 PM
I was wrong.This is not a firmware update.Simply a new driver.On top of that it's only for not just Core 2 Duo's but Tiger only.

I tried to install the same software on my Leopard partition and 3 times in a row it installed on my Macintosh HD and gave me NO choice to install on the Leopard partition.And in Leopard it still reports 802.11 a/b/g..No n.


If this is worth anything.
Hope it helps.It's ticked me off.

goosnarrggh
Jan 30, 2007, 12:12 PM
:rolleyes:

Neither the MacBook, or the MacBook Pro can have it's internal card upgraded for 802.11n.:rolleyes:

Granted. But that's a far cry from your previous post which essentially said that it would be impossible to ever have access to any form of 802.11n on a CD Mac Book or Mac Book Pro notebook.

Obviously, since pre-n USB dongles and ExpressCards are on the market today, it's perfectly technically feasible to upgrade either of those notebooks to 802.11n wireless. Presuming the manufacturer and/or Apple release the drivers for it.

dshelby
Jan 30, 2007, 12:15 PM
Call Applecare.

I am having the same issue on my 15" MBP. I am however using the OEM drive. Has anyone with this problem got a fix? If not, I will go ahead and call Apple Care and post the fix afterwards.

starnox
Jan 30, 2007, 12:20 PM
according to apple the new Airport Extreme Base Stations are shipping today. Can't wait to get my hands on one. I like how you can attach a USB hub to it in order to share up to four printers/hdds.

guzhogi
Jan 30, 2007, 12:23 PM
Where do you get the driver for Windows? I'm using Vista RC2 and the drivers aren't there for it. I'm running a MacBook Pro C2D and it sucks not being able to connect to the internet.

Rower_CPU
Jan 30, 2007, 12:24 PM
I am having the same issue on my 15" MBP. I am however using the OEM drive. Has anyone with this problem got a fix? If not, I will go ahead and call Apple Care and post the fix afterwards.

I'm having a problem with a Mac Pro - http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=836273

Seems odd that the card doesn't show like Apple says it should in Network Utility. My drives are the standard ones from Apple, so it should be an issue there.

Chanabra
Jan 30, 2007, 12:24 PM
There is no reason for people to buy the enabler unless they already have access to an N network. Am I correct people?????

This won't help your new MacBook or MBPro to transfer and recieve data over a current G network any faster.

I don't even believe there are any N routers out for sale yet at Best Buy or CompUSA is there????

If I am wrong about the fact that the N Enabler will not give you any kind of boost to your G Network, please someone, point me to a link that shows me otherwise so I don't sound like a fool.

But otherwise like I said, A Fool and their Money.....

$1.99 isn't a bad cost for anything like this anyways so stop whining if you can't wait for Leopard or to buy an APEXT.

I bought a really nice D-Link router that is 802.11n and is much cheaper then airport extreme, and better imo... @ Bestbuy.

daneoni
Jan 30, 2007, 12:24 PM
£1.27 in the UK. Doesn't really matter to me as i have a free Airport Extreme Base Station on the way.

goosnarrggh
Jan 30, 2007, 12:25 PM
I'm sure all Macs shipping at this point are enabled.

At least in the iMac family, the technical specs page still states 802.11g functionality. A tiny footnote at the bottom of the page advertises that you can step up to 802.11n with an "optional enabler". If they really want to give the outward appearance of adhering to GAAP, then they may have no choice but to continue locking out 802.11n by default, at least until their next hardware refresh.

Still waiting to see if this might just be a stop gap measure until they officially support it in Leopard...

guasmoa
Jan 30, 2007, 12:26 PM
For the people who are having trouble installing the Enabler:

Simply open Software Update and install the Airport update first. You restart your computer then you can install the enabler onto the drive. If you don't do software update, then the drive that has your system on it will not work for installation of the enabler.

nagromme
Jan 30, 2007, 12:26 PM
$1.99 is most distressing!

But being surprised to find WiFi n in my iMac that was not supposed to have it is pleasant enough to more than drown my sorrow :)

Of course, it's entirely irrelevant until I have some device to communicate WITH at n speeds... which may be a long time coming.

dshelby
Jan 30, 2007, 12:26 PM
I am having the same issue on my 15" MBP. I am however using the OEM drive. Has anyone with this problem got a fix? If not, I will go ahead and call Apple Care and post the fix afterwards.


Never mind. The enabler installed fine after grabbing the latest update for Tiger and the new extreme base stations.

Just to clarify I couldn't install the update because it said I didn't have enough free space even though I had over 70Gb available.

KindredMAC
Jan 30, 2007, 12:27 PM
http://www.xenafan.com/movies/bod/images/johnny05.jpg

lukeisme09
Jan 30, 2007, 12:30 PM
I can't believe all the negatives. Apple never advertised the N hardware. Nobody bought their C2D mac because it was, or might be, N compatible. So if you're happy with 802.11g, then use that. If you want the new standard, pay the TINY fee and be happy that you have the option. Stop whinning!!

exactly it doesnt make any since to me

#1 it is only 2 dollars !:cool:

#2 if it is not really needed right now and 802.11G is working fine why complain and start saving for a new computer?:confused:

BriChi
Jan 30, 2007, 12:30 PM
according to apple the new Airport Extreme Base Stations are shipping today. Can't wait to get my hands on one. I like how you can attach a USB hub to it in order to share up to four printers/hdds.


So I broke the bank and dropped the 1.99. When I go to install it it says it can not be installed on this computer, but yet I have a core2duo macbook and macbook pro 15", I can't install it on either of them. Do you HAVE to have the airport extreme base station too, If so that really sucks because I already have a Linksys access point which is 802.11N. Help!!!

starnox
Jan 30, 2007, 12:32 PM
So I broke the bank and dropped the 1.99. When I go to install it it says it can not be installed on this computer, but yet I have a core2duo macbook and macbook pro 15", I can't install it on either of them. Do you HAVE to have the airport extreme base station too, If so that really sucks because I already have a Linksys access point which is 802.11N. Help!!!

no you don't need the airport extreme base station.

123
Jan 30, 2007, 12:35 PM
They even find it necessary to charge new customers.

"Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (802.11g standard; 802.11n capable with optional 802.11n enabler)"

I guess the whole thing has to do with some f'd up structures within Apple (e.g. the guys who wrote the driver somehow have to generate revenue in order to justify their project/time without official R&D blessing or something like that).

Westside guy
Jan 30, 2007, 12:37 PM
I just purchased and installed it on my Core 2 Duo Macbook Pro without any issues.

As a matter of fact... now Safari seems snappier.




:D

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 12:38 PM
If folks are really concerned about 2 bucks wait for Leopard.It will come "standard".
If folks are peeved like I am write them and let them know your displeasure.

BriChi
Jan 30, 2007, 12:40 PM
no you don't need the airport extreme base station.

That's good, Maybe I need to do an update before the install? I don't think I did the automatic update for some airport thing last week

s10
Jan 30, 2007, 12:43 PM
There is no need to buy this $1.99 enabler really, unless you want to make a mac to mac network before the ATV or new Airport N comes out, because if you're going to buy one of those products, the enabler will be included anyway.

Rower_CPU
Jan 30, 2007, 12:51 PM
There is no need to buy this $1.99 enabler really, unless you want to make a mac to mac network before the ATV or new Airport N comes out, because if you're going to buy one of those products, the enabler will be included anyway.

If you want to use any of the multitude of non-Apple 802.11n products on the market you need the enabler.

Max Payne
Jan 30, 2007, 01:03 PM
Let Us know.
No. the n is still missing. I guess it was something different.

Canerican
Jan 30, 2007, 01:11 PM
Seems odd that the card doesn't show like Apple says it should in Network Utility. My drives are the standard ones from Apple, so it should be an issue there.

Make sure you select EN1.

aswitcher
Jan 30, 2007, 01:12 PM
Anyone hazard a guess when the updated base station control software will be released?

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 01:19 PM
Anyone hazard a guess when the updated base station control software will be released?

I'm guessing that's only going to ship with the :apple: TV or the Airport Extreme Base Station.

aswitcher
Jan 30, 2007, 01:22 PM
I'm guessing that's only going to ship with the :apple: TV or the Airport Extreme Base Station.

I dont think so because it is meant to work with older Airport Basestations

roland.g
Jan 30, 2007, 01:24 PM
according to apple the new Airport Extreme Base Stations are shipping today. Can't wait to get my hands on one. I like how you can attach a USB hub to it in order to share up to four printers/hdds.

Really. The store still says February. Is this for those that pre-ordered?

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 01:33 PM
I dont think so because it is meant to work with older Airport Basestations

Ya you're right..

Now I'm wondering when Front Row 2.0 ( the :apple: TV seems to use it ) and Bootcamp will be out.

matticus008
Jan 30, 2007, 01:41 PM
I object to the summary of this article saying Apple changed the price from $4.99 to $1.99. There was never any indication that it was $4.99, only a rumor. That's just plain bush-league fumbling. Even the link provided doesn't cite any source.

s10
Jan 30, 2007, 01:47 PM
If you want to use any of the multitude of non-Apple 802.11n products on the market you need the enabler.

and does it work with the "multitude" products?

guzhogi
Jan 30, 2007, 01:48 PM
I wonder if Apple will include the enabler in 10.4.9? It'll more than likely be in Leopard, but having it in 10.4.9 as well would be better.

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 01:51 PM
I wonder if Apple will include the enabler in 10.4.9? It'll more than likely be in Leopard, but having it in 10.4.9 as well would be better.

It's not in 10.4.9

matticus008
Jan 30, 2007, 01:53 PM
I wonder if Apple will include the enabler in 10.4.9? It'll more than likely be in Leopard, but having it in 10.4.9 as well would be better.
Putting it in 10.4.9 wouldn't happen, because it wouldn't follow from their accounting situation. Even if you don't understand or won't accept that reasoning, they're not giving it away. You have to buy something to get it.

guzhogi
Jan 30, 2007, 02:12 PM
Putting it in 10.4.9 wouldn't happen, because it wouldn't follow from their accounting situation. Even if you don't understand or won't accept that reasoning, they're not giving it away. You have to buy something to get it.

You're right. Just wishful thinking on my part.

Mac Pro 5GB
Jan 30, 2007, 02:26 PM
My goodness, that's a lot of misinformation for one paragraph. The :apple:tv does not have a wireless access point built-in, so you need a separate wireless access point or base station to connect it to your network wirelessly. You can't transmit directly from your Mac to an :apple:tv. If you're using an access point that doesn't have 802.11n then obviously you won't get 802.11n speeds.

You can transmit directly from your Mac to your appleTV:

Relax and unwire.
If you don’t have a wireless network, you can set one up easily with a wireless access point like the superfast 802.11 AirPort Extreme Base Station. Newer AirPort Extreme-enabled Macs let you create a wireless network using only your computer. And if you have a Mac or PC without built-in wireless capability, you can connect Apple TV to your network using an Ethernet cable (sold separately).

The AppleTV has built in networking:

Ports and interfaces
HDMI (video and audio)
Component video
Optical audio
Analog RCA stereo audio
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
USB 2.0
802.11n wireless networking
Built-in IR receiver (works with included Apple Remote)

eenu
Jan 30, 2007, 02:38 PM
£1.27 in the UK. Doesn't really matter to me as i have a free Airport Extreme Base Station on the way.

Well looks like edu discount was 2p then as i paid £1.25

QCassidy352
Jan 30, 2007, 02:44 PM
I have a Mini, I am not complaining. But then again I just bought it as a holdover till Leopard. People really can't get over this idea of trying to future proof their purchases and so anyone with a CD is feeling fairly shafted.

I have a core duo macbook. I don't feel "shafted" in the slightest. I've had my macbook 6 months longer than anyone has had a core2duo macbook and have enjoyed it the entire time. I certainly realized that newer things would be coming along and that I might not have every bell and whistle that later versions would have. I got what I paid for at the time, and I'm happy with it. How exactly could I, or any core duo owner, complain about the fact that apple included a new technology in a newer machine? :confused:

idesign81
Jan 30, 2007, 02:45 PM
vista just got extra publisity from msnbc.com, the report.. is of a reporter who gave up his mac for a windows.. :(
what a sad and gloomy day...
it seems that he luvs all the new features from vista.. like the gadgets u can put on the desktop.. which i recall, mac has "widges" for a while now.. but let me not get into it :)..

i wonder how many blue screens he has gotten so far.....

Steve1496
Jan 30, 2007, 02:47 PM
vista just got extra publisity from msnbc.com, the report.. is of a reporter who gave up his mac for a windows.. :(
what a sad and gloomy day...
it seems that he luvs all the new features from vista.. like the gadgets u can put on the desktop.. which i recall, mac has "widges" for a while now.. but let me not get into it :)..

i wonder how many blue screens he has gotten so far.....


If you read to the end, you'd realize he did not stay with Windows. He went back to Mac.

sblasl
Jan 30, 2007, 02:49 PM
and does it work with the "multitude" products?

I bought the WZR-G300N AirStation specifically for my MacBook Pro C2D and my Wife's MacBook C2D.

I have not had time to do any specific benchmarking, but observing my Wife and her "surfing", I can see, and she commented on the smoothness and speed of web pages loading.

The WZR-G300N AirStation is a fantastic product, when lots of people were experiencing problems with connections etc., before and after the recent update, we never had any problems.

The WZR-G300N AirStation is WDS friendly with the Airport Express and does not require and 3rd party firmware to make it work, you just configure with appropriate MAC addresses and your up & running.:cool:

idesign81
Jan 30, 2007, 02:57 PM
If you read to the end, you'd realize he did not stay with Windows. He went back to Mac.

dope.. i knew it couldn't be true :).. i got bored of reading it..

Rower_CPU
Jan 30, 2007, 02:57 PM
Make sure you select EN1.

Mine shows on "en2" - but it turned out to be that I hadn't installed the Airport update first. :o

and does it work with the "multitude" products?

Anything that supports the 802.11N draft specification should work fine.

richard4339
Jan 30, 2007, 03:32 PM
according to apple the new Airport Extreme Base Stations are shipping today. Can't wait to get my hands on one. I like how you can attach a USB hub to it in order to share up to four printers/hdds.

Where do you see that the extremes are shipping today? Still says February on the US Apple Store.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=1B3CD69&nplm=MA073LL%2FA

gwilli
Jan 30, 2007, 03:39 PM
UK here.

I downloaded a free update using automatic update. Is this the same? It was free too.

No, its the update needed in order to install the wireless-n enabler you have to buy from the mac store. If you don't install it you get an error saying that one of your volumes doesn't meet the requirements when you try and install the updater.

sblasl
Jan 30, 2007, 03:48 PM
Where do you see that the extremes are shipping today? Still says February on the US Apple Store.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=1B3CD69&nplm=MA073LL%2FA

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01/30/basestation/index.php

mdawson
Jan 30, 2007, 04:03 PM
I just downloaded and installed a legal copy from the Apple Store and my macbook pro now seems slower with my Belkin pre-n router.

I am hoping this is general internet slowness. Or a hallucination on my part.

--md

starnox
Jan 30, 2007, 04:04 PM
Where do you see that the extremes are shipping today? Still says February on the US Apple Store.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=1B3CD69&nplm=MA073LL%2FA

I work at an APR and our Apple Rep sent us through an e-mail telling us.

drcosmos
Jan 30, 2007, 04:10 PM
Why? What responsibility does Apple have for Netgear products? What responsibility does Netgear have for Apple firmware? Catch-22 for you, but them's the breaks with non-standard products.

Apple is only guaranteeing that pre-N speeds will work with its own router AFAIK. But thanks for Beta-testing for the rest of us :)


Seems strange that it doesn´t work. If we talk about the G standard which is a set standard that Apple and other manufacturers should follow and have working products talking to each other. My Macbook Pro C2D is not working with my NAS drive from Maxtor that is Mac supported by Maxtor. Tried to buy a new draft N router from Linksys but it did not work any better, really slow transfers. However, with three different PCs and a Linux machine it works flawless and fast within the network. Think Apple has some really bad things in their setup if they can not make a G network stream mp3s for instance. Called Apple and asked them for support but... they claimed that they do not support other router manufacturers nor NAS manufacturers that are claiming support for MAC. Have been reading at various of different forums the last three months since I received the Macbook Pro and seen that other users have problems similar to me and also problems with the IMac c2d.
Apple will have to stand in front of me fixing my network as I finally have ordered a Extreme router from them as it is their problem.
Let´s say I would have bought a car, would it not be strange if the car would not work with the standardized petrol for that car that the manufacturer would say they supported? Really would have thought that Apple had control over their hardware and that it was thoroughly tested before release.
At least my old pc is working but that makes me no happy as I really like the mac in other ways and want it to work.

drcosmos
Jan 30, 2007, 04:18 PM
it's. two. freaking. dollars.

get over it. people will spend money on a pack of cigs but complain for stuff like this. this is not a conspiracy, this is not about principle, this is not the start of future things to come, this is not the beginning of apple starting a new business model of charging money for seemingly petty upgrades. this is none of that. what this is, is two. freaking. dollars.

No, this is greed!!! Why always try to charge for anything? Their products are not the cheapest on the market, maybe to little influence as they are the only on the market with this kind of products. Other manufacturers like Sony have released firmware for their cd recorders to make them work faster but without charging for the update.

mousemd
Jan 30, 2007, 04:42 PM
Looks like according to my order status, my router won't ship until Feb 28th with scheduled delivery March 6th.

SiliconAddict
Jan 30, 2007, 04:45 PM
Wonder how long it will take to find this on the newsgroups?

Newgroups are so 1999. Its all about the bittorrent! :cool:

daneoni
Jan 30, 2007, 04:48 PM
Well looks like edu discount was 2p then as i paid £1.25

My mistake, no edu prices same price all round. Must've misread or Apple changed it slightly afterwards.

SiliconAddict
Jan 30, 2007, 04:51 PM
I was wrong.This is not a firmware update.Simply a new driver.On top of that it's only for not just Core 2 Duo's but Tiger only.

I tried to install the same software on my Leopard partition and 3 times in a row it installed on my Macintosh HD and gave me NO choice to install on the Leopard partition.And in Leopard it still reports 802.11 a/b/g..No n.


If this is worth anything.
Hope it helps.It's ticked me off.

Actually I wasn't expecting it to be a firmware update since Windows ID's the card as being N under bootcamp. I realized that last week when I connected to a friends N router under Windows. So much for it being a firmware thing. :rolleyes:

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 04:54 PM
Actually I wasn't expecting it to be a firmware update since Windows ID's the card as being N under bootcamp. I realized that last week when I connected to a friends N router under Windows. So much for it being a firmware thing. :rolleyes:

You are right and I stand corrected.At the time I discovered the .n I had no access to a .n router so I presumed it just needed a firmware update.

So much for theories! :confused:

finedesign
Jan 30, 2007, 04:54 PM
Hi folks-

I just downloaded the wireless N updater and have mixed reactions. See below.

grace and peace-
paul

SPECS:
------------------------------
Computer: MBP C2D
Wireless Router: D-Link DIR-635

GOOD RESULTS
------------------------------
The speed is very very fast on page loads. I did a speed test about a month ago , then again just now with the following results:

https://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

OLD STATS: (B4 Wireless N)
5004 dn / 478.7 up

NEW STATS:
9315 dn / 20 up

NEW STATS (second attempt):
10285 dn / 282 up


BAD RESULTS
------------------------------
I mainly wanted the N ability for the range. Unfortunately I can barely get the signal outside my home.
When I enable some of my wireless signal apps (AP Grapher, CoconutWiFi, some widgets) I lose the signal altogether. AirStatz seems to be the only app that works. And sometimes it just seems to drop in speed intermittently.

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 04:56 PM
Hi folks-

I just downloaded the wireless N updater and have mixed reactions. See below.

grace and peace-
paul

SPECS:
------------------------------
Computer: MBP C2D
Wireless Router: D-Link DIR-635

GOOD RESULTS
------------------------------
The speed is very very fast on page loads. I did a speed test about a month ago , then again just now with the following results:

https://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

OLD STATS: (B4 Wireless N)
5004 dn / 478.7 up

NEW STATS:
9315 dn / 20 up

NEW STATS (second attempt):
10285 dn / 282 up


BAD RESULTS
------------------------------
I mainly wanted the N ability for the range. Unfortunately I can barely get the signal outside my home.
When I enable some of my wireless signal apps (AP Grapher, CoconutWiFi, some widgets) I lose the signal altogether. AirStatz seems to be the only app that works. And sometimes it just seems to drop in speed intermittently.

You do realize the .n update has no effect on internet traffic right?
It's merely for LAN not WAN.

re: bittorrent

Man this 206 KB file is gonna slow down all those bittorrent sites!!

mousemd
Jan 30, 2007, 05:07 PM
Newgroups are so 1999. Its all about the bittorrent! :cool:

dunno about that one...newsgroups are probably safer than bittorrent

Peligro
Jan 30, 2007, 05:38 PM
How can I check the speed of my connection? I would like to see exactly how many Mbps faster this will be.

bimmerkid
Jan 30, 2007, 05:49 PM
I have a C2D MacBook Pro.... look what happens when attempting to install the enabaler:
:mad:

http://home.comcast.net/~evanterry/pictures/Picture_1.png

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 05:54 PM
I have a C2D MacBook Pro.... look what happens when attempting to install the enabaler:
:mad:

http://home.comcast.net/~evanterry/pictures/Picture_1.png

Have you installed the Airport update yet? (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/airportextremeupdate2007001.html)

gogoman
Jan 30, 2007, 05:57 PM
Getting some good rates with new enabled N card and D-Link extreme N router with gigabit. Steady around 6400Kbps.

http://www.gogostudio.com/sling.jpg

Another speed test for the "new" N card:

http://www.gogostudio.com/speed.jpg

WildPalms
Jan 30, 2007, 06:08 PM
No, this is greed!!! Why always try to charge for anything? Their products are not the cheapest on the market, maybe to little influence as they are the only on the market with this kind of products. Other manufacturers like Sony have released firmware for their cd recorders to make them work faster but without charging for the update.

It is not greed drcosmos. Why dont you start with a little bit of research. Here's a sign post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes-Oxley_Act

pwfletcher
Jan 30, 2007, 06:26 PM
I run my entire home automation/security system over wifi including streaming movies to different MacMini C2Ds (custom made) thoughout the house. The Minis are connected via ethernet, but since the bullk of the system is wifi, the 802.11N will be a welcome improvement. I just upgraded my MacBook Pro without issue, but now really need the new AE to bring it all together ...

http://confidence.us/temp/home.jpg

http://confidence.us/temp/home2.jpg

sblasl
Jan 30, 2007, 06:33 PM
I spoke with a Tech at Buffalo today and she informed of a few things:

If your cable/DSL connection has any type of degradation, you will have very unstable if even usable connection at all. So it is best to check your cables, connectors, and even signal leakage, if so, get it remedied.

Don't use any of the AirStatz, iStumblers, and all of the other Airport "stuff" until you really get your network up & running and even then think twice about using them.

I always would manually set my channel to 6, she had me let the router set the channel automatically, then everything fell into place and away we went!! Something to do with channel "bonding". Basically let the router do all of the configurations automatically when it comes to the "n" stuff.

For security I am using WPA2 with no problems. We have a MacBook C2D and a MacBook Pro C2D with a Buffalo WZR-G300N router.

Good luck!

izzyd3434
Jan 30, 2007, 07:04 PM
I think that you are right (last poster)about it having nothing to do with your G speeds....so I don't know who would upgrade....unless you were simply waiting for this because you were about to purchase a N router....and I didn't see a response as to if the pre-N routers will be compatible?

-----------
John
http://www.monomachines.com

EagerDragon
Jan 30, 2007, 07:12 PM
Can you connect to :apple:TV via a wired connection? I personally don't really trust the security of wireless networks.

But then again, that might be just because my house was robbed one time and I got about $3K of fraud on my credit card another time... :(

Update: Go my answer there:
Where you using WPA2 and a strong password?
If you were running an open wireless I understand. But if you were running WPA2 and a strong password I dought that was the problem, it would take them thousands of years to decode the stuff.

EagerDragon
Jan 30, 2007, 07:14 PM
Correction: Pre-N routers are out. The question is how compatible is one vendor's Pre-N router with another vendor's Pre-N card. That has always been one of the negatives of a 'draft' spec. Quite often, if you want the full speeds available, you need to get all your networking cards, access points, and routers from the same vendor.

The real question is how well will Apple's n-enabled cards work with someone else's pre-n access points or routers.

Buy hardware witn the same pre-N chip as Apple. However I would suggest sticking with a single brand, in this case Apple.

Peace
Jan 30, 2007, 07:17 PM
I run my entire home automation/security system over wifi including streaming movies to different MacMini C2Ds (custom made) thoughout the house. The Minis are connected via ethernet, but since the bullk of the system is wifi, the 802.11N will be a welcome improvement. I just upgraded my MacBook Pro without issue, but now really need the new AE to bring it all together ...

http://confidence.us/temp/home.jpg



What program is that ?

sblasl
Jan 30, 2007, 07:21 PM
What do you mean by "MacMini C2Ds (custom made)"?

"I run my entire home automation/security system over wifi including streaming movies to different MacMini C2Ds (custom made) thoughout the house.

AidenShaw
Jan 30, 2007, 07:51 PM
What program is that ?

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=9652

Reverend Wally
Jan 30, 2007, 08:21 PM
My results since the N activation

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/WallyDow/SpeedTestwithNactivated.jpg

:)

abadr
Jan 30, 2007, 08:43 PM
Why? What responsibility does Apple have for Netgear products? What responsibility does Netgear have for Apple firmware? Catch-22 for you, but them's the breaks with non-standard products.

Apple is only guaranteeing that pre-N speeds will work with its own router AFAIK. But thanks for Beta-testing for the rest of us :)

I could be wrong, but I thought that both were meant to be backward compatiable with the 802.11g standard, which again, correct me if I'm wrong, is faster than 400kb/s

AFAIK it isn't a firmware update either, but a software patch

The Airport Extreme shipped with Mac Pros and C2D iMacs are supposed to be 802.11g compatible. They are advertised as such and 802.11g is a recognised standard. Netgear, Belkin and other all comply to that standard. Apple should too.

It is reasonable to expect 802.11g speeds. Which are typically 2-6 megabytes per second.

A througput rate which maxes out at 400 K bytes per second, (which is what I am getting too) reveals that these parts fail to comply to that standard.

I now have an n-enabled Mac pro - which gets less throughput than a 802.11b equipped Powerbook from the same base station. Way to go Apple.


C.

Thanks for backing me up! Just re-reading the discussion, so sorry for multiple posts, but I felt strongly about the slightly ignorant post above.

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 30, 2007, 08:52 PM
Nobody bought their C2D mac because it was, or might be, N compatible

Speak for yourself. Some of us do product research before buying. This site is really good for that.

They even find it necessary to charge new customers...I guess the whole thing has to do with some f'd up structures within Apple (e.g. the guys who wrote the driver somehow have to generate revenue in order to justify their project/time without official R&D blessing or something like that).

Good point! Again, we shouldn't have to know or care how Apple works - this is the philosophy they espouse in their products. This pretty much blows a hole in the Sarbox argument. And adds credence for "if we can get $2 per driver, times half a million users, several times a year" argument.

I'm glad to see they're at least honestly calling it an Enabler. That is, the hardware was initially DIS-abled.

wakerider017
Jan 30, 2007, 09:04 PM
Guys,

Unless you have some wicked fast internet you should not see an increase in connection speed with 802.11n.

You will see a big difference while transferring files from local computers and such

SeaFox
Jan 30, 2007, 09:16 PM
it's. two. freaking. dollars.

get over it. people will spend money on a pack of cigs but complain for stuff like this. this is not a conspiracy, this is not about principle, this is not the start of future things to come, this is not the beginning of apple starting a new business model of charging money for seemingly petty upgrades. this is none of that. what this is, is two. freaking. dollars.

Yes. THANK YOU. I cannot believe how many people have rated this negative.

My results since the N activation

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/WallyDow/SpeedTestwithNactivated.jpg

:)

Activating 802.11n capability on your computer isn't going to effect your Internet access at all. :rolleyes:

Your g wireless was already faster than your broadband connection.

SeaFox
Jan 30, 2007, 09:26 PM
Speak for yourself. Some of us do product research before buying. This site is really good for that.

You must be joking because...

This site is about rumors and therefore publishes things that don't pan out to be true all the time.
Macrumors never stated that the 802.11n capability would be active on the new laptops or that a software enabler would be free of charge.


So you still and always were buying an 802.11g card in the laptop despite what you may have thought.

jimbo0270
Jan 30, 2007, 09:36 PM
I can't believe all the negatives. Apple never advertised the N hardware. Nobody bought their C2D mac because it was, or might be, N compatible. So if you're happy with 802.11g, then use that. If you want the new standard, pay the TINY fee and be happy that you have the option. Stop whinning!!

No Apple did not advertise but when it showed up as N in Winblows I knew it was only a matter of time before they enabled N on the Mac side, so I did buy a C2D iMac because it "might" be N compatible. If not, I would have waited... in need the bandwidth and WIFI or it would be of little benefit to me. Now I purchased the enabler and it says it's N but I see no speed increase with my Linksys WRT300N. Network Utility still shows the link speed as 54mb even though I forced the router to 130mb on N.

jcshas
Jan 30, 2007, 10:13 PM
So I cracked open the case of my MacBook Pro Core Duo 1.83GHz machine tonight to install a 120 GB hard drive, and happend to notice how simple it would be to install one of the new 802.11n Airport Cards. The card itself is seated on the left side of the keyboard. From as near as I could tell, it's similar to how the Airport Cards are installed in the iBook G4's. Slide it into the slot, connect the cables and you're on your way. I wonder how long it will be before you can pick one up and install it yourself? Or does it also require the newer Intel chipset?

Westside guy
Jan 30, 2007, 10:57 PM
I really want to get one of the new Airport Extreme routers, but it seems like there are so many places people could get bit with this particular "Rev A" product... so I'm going to wait at least a couple months to hear how other peoples' experiences go. :D

Not to mention that I haven't been able to find any particularly technical information, even on Apple's "technical specs" page for the new AE. Things like what disk formats are supported (yes it does matter).

SiliconAddict
Jan 31, 2007, 12:55 AM
You are right and I stand corrected.At the time I discovered the .n I had no access to a .n router so I presumed it just needed a firmware update.

So much for theories! :confused:

Just to be clear I wasn't hacking or rolling my eyes at you; just Apple. :)

So I cracked open the case of my MacBook Pro Core Duo 1.83GHz machine tonight to install a 120 GB hard drive, and happend to notice how simple it would be to install one of the new 802.11n Airport Cards. The card itself is seated on the left side of the keyboard. From as near as I could tell, it's similar to how the Airport Cards are installed in the iBook G4's. Slide it into the slot, connect the cables and you're on your way. I wonder how long it will be before you can pick one up and install it yourself? Or does it also require the newer Intel chipset?

Sighs. You need to understand. While you might be able to physically insert a card there IS a difference between a G and an N card. That being a 3rd antenna. Unless you plan on stringing it throughout your computer. Its not going to work.

Willis
Jan 31, 2007, 05:52 AM
Not sure if its been mentioned yet... but whats this about?

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/airportextremeupdate2007001.html

Mitthrawnuruodo
Jan 31, 2007, 05:56 AM
Not sure if its been mentioned yet... but whats this about?This (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305031):
Description: An out-of-bounds memory read may occur while handling wireless frames. An attacker in local proximity may be able to trigger a system crash by sending a maliciously-crafted frame to an affected system. This issue affects the Core Duo version of Mac mini, MacBook, and MacBook Pro computers equipped with wireless. Other systems, including the Core 2 Duo versions are not affected. This update addresses the issue by performing additional validation of wireless frames. Credit to LMH for reporting this issue.

(and, yes (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/23/mac-os-x-security-update-2007-001/), it has been mentioned... ;))

aristobrat
Jan 31, 2007, 05:57 AM
Is that the update that's been showing up in Software Update on the applicable C2D Macs?

ilkevinli
Jan 31, 2007, 08:11 AM
The N card requires 3 antennas. The core duo notebooks only have 2.



So I cracked open the case of my MacBook Pro Core Duo 1.83GHz machine tonight to install a 120 GB hard drive, and happend to notice how simple it would be to install one of the new 802.11n Airport Cards. The card itself is seated on the left side of the keyboard. From as near as I could tell, it's similar to how the Airport Cards are installed in the iBook G4's. Slide it into the slot, connect the cables and you're on your way. I wonder how long it will be before you can pick one up and install it yourself? Or does it also require the newer Intel chipset?

johnpaul191
Jan 31, 2007, 08:32 AM
Hi.
What, if I have two MacBooks with the 802.11n cards (+enabler). Can I use them in Ad-Hoc mode for fast data transfer? How fast would this be?

Thanks,
Fritz

Yes and FAST!
let's put it this way, 802.11N (or draftN) is fast enough to stream high quality video. people are saying it's about 4x faster than 802.11a or g AND better range.

another very practical use is if you have, say a core2duo iMac and a MacBook. you can hook up the iMac to ethernet and make it run as a base station. that way you don't have to buy a base station at all.

to relay the iMac's (or Mac Pro or whatever) internet connection you go into System Prefs -> Sharing -> Internet
it's pretty straight forward to set up. you can make it secure or not bla bla bla.
you can also just go under the airport menu to link 2 machines for file sharing like you asked about.
i have an older AirPort and i have not replaced it because i'm using a newish iMac to relay the WiFi till i am sure the 802.11N in the new base stations (Apple's or others) is 100% happy with the new standard..... my laptop is also not even 802.11g so whatever. it does cover weak spots now that we effectively have 2 base stations in the house.

sycho
Jan 31, 2007, 09:19 AM
Yes and FAST!
let's put it this way, 802.11N (or draftN) is fast enough to stream high quality video. people are saying it's about 4x faster than 802.11a or g AND better range.

802.11g is enough to stream HDTV...:rolleyes:

ilkevinli
Jan 31, 2007, 10:06 AM
I would have to disagree. The fastest ACTUAL throughput I have seen for 802.11g is about 30mbps. Thats the minimum for HD video.

802.11g is enough to stream HDTV...:rolleyes:

aristobrat
Jan 31, 2007, 10:20 AM
802.11g is enough to stream HDTV...:rolleyes:
Stream, barely. If nobody in else in the house is using WiFi for anything. ;)
Fast eenough to buffer so that you can skip ahead? Nope.

aswitcher
Jan 31, 2007, 10:43 AM
another very practical use is if you have, say a core2duo iMac and a MacBook. you can hook up the iMac to ethernet and make it run as a base station. that way you don't have to buy a base station at all.



Sure, but its not really as good as a base station. Its not really a dedicated MIMO device with the power of a base station. It doesn't have the tricky software that allows you to see how wireless issues like a base station can.

goosnarrggh
Jan 31, 2007, 11:05 AM
What do you mean by "MacMini C2Ds (custom made)"?

"
Probably means that he/she bought the cheapest Core Solo Mac Mini she/he could get his/her hands on, then opened it up, took out the original chip, and popped in a Core 2 Duo chip in its place.

The thermal profile is similar enough, the pinouts are identical, the Mac Mini uses socketed (instead of soldered) CPUs, and chipsets capable of using the Yonah core also support Merom.

sycho
Jan 31, 2007, 11:11 AM
I would have to disagree. The fastest ACTUAL throughput I have seen for 802.11g is about 30mbps. Thats the minimum for HD video.

Right... I have never seen an HDTV clip at 30Mbps, usually 10-20Mbps.

pwfletcher
Jan 31, 2007, 11:47 AM
What program is that ?

Indigo

What do you mean by "MacMini C2Ds (custom made)"?

I popped out the CD processors and put in C2D processors so that they will play 1080P without dropping any frames and without getting too hot ... they work great!

... and I use iRed and IRTrans to control the Home Theater :)

drcosmos
Jan 31, 2007, 05:35 PM
802.11g is enough to stream HDTV...:rolleyes:

So, why can´t I even stream mp3s or look at pictures at decent speed? Have tested draft N from Linksys and Broadcom G speed without success... There weren´t any issue with PCs with Windows XP or Linux installed. Could even stream HD movies with G speed. Any suggestion why the Apple Macbook Pro C2D would not work?

Cheers:confused:

fustercluck
Jan 31, 2007, 10:58 PM
Speak for yourself. Some of us do product research before buying. This site is really good for that.



Good point! Again, we shouldn't have to know or care how Apple works - this is the philosophy they espouse in their products. This pretty much blows a hole in the Sarbox argument. And adds credence for "if we can get $2 per driver, times half a million users, several times a year" argument.

I'm glad to see they're at least honestly calling it an Enabler. That is, the hardware was initially DIS-abled.

Thank you. I was the first to make this point and to question the whole "this is a firmware upgrade" nonsense and was cyber-assaulted for both.

matticus008
Jan 31, 2007, 11:37 PM
Speak for yourself. Some of us do product research before buying. This site is really good for that.
But the point remains that you can't make buying decisions based on rumor and speculation, and then later get upset when events take a different path. You were given access to product specifications and feature lists, and nothing else, not a thing, is guaranteed.

Good point! Again, we shouldn't have to know or care how Apple works - this is the philosophy they espouse in their products.
And you still don't have to. Nobody forced you to take an interest in the specifics or invited you to dismiss categorically the reasoning because you don't like it. You want simple? You got a b/g computer, and now you can have an 802.11n computer for $2. That's it.

This pretty much blows a hole in the Sarbox argument. And adds credence for "if we can get $2 per driver, times half a million users, several times a year" argument.
Based on what? How does a one-time fee, affecting a limited number of customers, at a nominal charge lend credence to anything? Where do you see a precedent being set? You can't set a trend on a single point.

I'm glad to see they're at least honestly calling it an Enabler. That is, the hardware was initially DIS-abled.
Actually, all it technically means is that it was previously not enabled. But yes, it wasn't available, because there were no drivers for it. What is your winning strategy for enabling hardware without a driver?

maverick808
Feb 1, 2007, 04:24 AM
If you have two Macs, both enabled to 802.11n, and create an ad hoc network between them or share a wired connection through the wireless card then you only get 802.11g speeds. Why? Both machines are 802.11n capable so why do they only use 802.11g?

I tried two iMacs, two MacBooks, a MBP to MacBook, MacBook to iMac, MBP, to iMac... all the machines are C2D and have been enabled to 802.11n. With every single combination the speeds are 802.11g, and Network Utility reports the link speed as 54Mbps :(

aswitcher
Feb 1, 2007, 04:36 AM
If you have two Macs, both enabled to 802.11n, and create an ad hoc network between them or share a wired connection through the wireless card then you only get 802.11g speeds. Why? Both machines are 802.11n capable so why do they only use 802.11g?

I tried two iMacs, two MacBooks, a MBP to MacBook, MacBook to iMac, MBP, to iMac... all the machines are C2D and have been enabled to 802.11n. With every single combination the speeds are 802.11g, and Network Utility reports the link speed as 54Mbps :(

That sounds very weird. You have a LOT of C2D Macs... My guess is either the N upgrade didnt work or more likely a setting isn't enabled.

maverick808
Feb 1, 2007, 04:40 AM
That sounds very weird. You have a LOT of C2D Macs... My guess is either the N upgrade didnt work or more likely a setting isn't enabled.

I work for a university computing science department so I have access to all types of Macs. I checked every setting I could find. All the machines report in Network Utility that they are 802.11a/b/g/n.

I really suspect that it simply isn't supported. Has anyone else at all managed to get 802.11n speeds with either ad hoc networks or with Internet sharing?

aswitcher
Feb 1, 2007, 04:55 AM
I work for a university computing science department so I have access to all types of Macs. I checked every setting I could find. All the machines report in Network Utility that they are 802.11a/b/g/n.

I really suspect that it simply isn't supported. Has anyone else at all managed to get 802.11n speeds with either ad hoc networks or with Internet sharing?

Maybe it requires one of the new airports with true MIMO to get that sort of speed.

gerrycurl
Feb 1, 2007, 08:10 AM
I can't believe all the negatives. Apple never advertised the N hardware. Nobody bought their C2D mac because it was, or might be, N compatible. So if you're happy with 802.11g, then use that. If you want the new standard, pay the TINY fee and be happy that you have the option. Stop whinning!!

i did biatch, i bought my macbook only because it had the n compatibility, otherwise i would have gotten a thinkpad. owned!

xli_ne
Feb 1, 2007, 10:09 AM
i did biatch, i bought my macbook only because it had the n compatibility, otherwise i would have gotten a thinkpad. owned!

I love newb comments :D

ClimbingTheLog
Feb 1, 2007, 10:19 AM
You must be joking because...

This site is about rumors and therefore publishes things that don't pan out to be true all the time.
Macrumors never stated that the 802.11n capability would be active on the new laptops or that a software enabler would be free of charge.


So you still and always were buying an 802.11g card in the laptop despite what you may have thought.

Wrong, Jacko, folks here had confirmed, under windows, that the c2d mbp had the 802.11n chip in it in the first couple weeks it was out. Contrary to what you might think, there are some very intelligent and knowledgeable folks who participate in the forums.

Thank you. I was the first to make this point and to question the whole "this is a firmware upgrade" nonsense and was cyber-assaulted for both.

The truth has set you free, my friend. Feel free to flame those who were insisting on the firmware excuse despite the card working in Windows.

ClimbingTheLog
Feb 1, 2007, 10:41 AM
But the point remains that you can't make buying decisions based on rumor and speculation, and then later get upset when events take a different path.

It wasn't rumor or speculation, it was a working -n card under Windows. That's called a fact, which is much different than rumor or speculation.

Perhaps, a counter-example would be helpful. Please describe any other piece of hardware in a Mac that is working, but at a purposely diminished level.

You were given access to product specifications and feature lists, and nothing else, not a thing, is guaranteed.

Sure, nothing is guaranteed in life. Apple has just never chosen to charge for a driver before. Ever. Nobody anticipated this change. Some people like Apple's new direction, some don't.

You got a b/g computer, and now you can have an 802.11n computer for $2. That's it.

Apple is now charging for improved hardware drivers. That changes its value model. Apple used to take care of its customers. That's it.

Based on what? How does a one-time fee, affecting a limited number of customers, at a nominal charge lend credence to anything? Where do you see a precedent being set? You can't set a trend on a single point.

Apple claimed this was due to a SarBox requirement due to booking revenue for already sold machines and adding new features after the sale date. It follows then that hardware sold today would not be subject to this requirement. But they're still charging $2 for -n as an add-on if you go and buy a new machine today. So they're either lying about the SarBox requirement or nickle-and-diming new buyers. One or both of these has to be true - there's no way around it. The WSJ seems to think it's both, and they're an Apple-friendly publication (Apple even references them in their ads).

Actually, all it technically means is that it was previously not enabled. But yes, it wasn't available, because there were no drivers for it. What is your winning strategy for enabling hardware without a driver?

You're confused about what a driver is. They don't enable hardware. They provide an interface for an operating system to access hardware resources. It's true, firmware updates can add features to a piece of hardware, but that's not what we're talking about here. The hardware resources were always there in this card (and all these machines came with a man page describing those features) but launch was delayed for Apple's marketing convenience to coincide with their MWSF product launches.

aristobrat
Feb 1, 2007, 12:03 PM
The hardware resources were always there in this card (and all these machines came with a man page describing those features) but launch was delayed for Apple's marketing convenience to coincide with their MWSF product launches.
Is there marketing going on for this $1.99 driver somewhere?

Whatever.

This is like crying over spilled milk.

Huracan
Feb 1, 2007, 02:13 PM
I've bitten the bullet and cracked the piggy bank and bought the enabler. When it comes down to peace of mind I think it beats having to spend time chasing for a torrent that works, or finding the enabler somewhere else and worry if it might have been altered and loaded with worms :) Not particularly happy that they are charging for this, but better than being stuck with a g hardware that could have been pre-draft n.

Now, that I have this thing enabled I'll have to find a draft-n network that is compatible. I don't want to buy Apple's airport base as it doesn't have a gigabit switch, and for me it is a big deal if I am going to spend almost a couple of hundred dollars on a wireless router. Has someone tried how compatible are the Mac with Linksys, Netgear? I am curious about the Linksys, as that one also has Gigabit, and USB hard drive support. It would be good to know if people have experience with Linksys' harddrive support and n wireless performance. Little I have read in the Internet hasn't been very positive.

trstno1
Feb 1, 2007, 02:42 PM
I work for a university computing science department so I have access to all types of Macs. I checked every setting I could find. All the machines report in Network Utility that they are 802.11a/b/g/n.

I really suspect that it simply isn't supported. Has anyone else at all managed to get 802.11n speeds with either ad hoc networks or with Internet sharing?

You'll get slower speeds on a mixed network - even though you have a Pre-N router, the a/b/g machines will drag down the network.

I've bitten the bullet and cracked the piggy bank and bought the enabler. When it comes down to peace of mind I think it beats having to spend time chasing for a torrent that works, or finding the enabler somewhere else and worry if it might have been altered and loaded with worms :) Not particularly happy that they are charging for this, but better than being stuck with a g hardware that could have been pre-draft n.

Now, that I have this thing enabled I'll have to find a draft-n network that is compatible. I don't want to buy Apple's airport base as it doesn't have a gigabit switch, and for me it is a big deal if I am going to spend almost a couple of hundred dollars on a wireless router. Has someone tried how compatible are the Mac with Linksys, Netgear? I am curious about the Linksys, as that one also has Gigabit, and USB hard drive support. It would be good to know if people have experience with Linksys' harddrive support and n wireless performance. Little I have read in the Internet hasn't been very positive.

I have a Belkin Pre-N wireless router that works really well with my Wireless G Macs. It really increased the range compared to my old Wireless G router. Of, course, speed was not affected, and I have not yet upgraded my iMac core 2 duo to Pre-N.

aristobrat
Feb 1, 2007, 02:52 PM
You'll get slower speeds on a mixed network - even though you have a Pre-N router, the a/b/g machines will drag down the network.
Does anyone know how much the a/b/g machines will drag the network down to?

Is it true that in order to run 5x faster, 802.11n has to use both the 2.4 and 5ghz wireless spectrum?

So if you have older devices a/b/g devices (that use the 2.4 spectrum), does that mean that 802.11n can only use the 5ghz spectrum?

And if that's the case, and since Apple is only advertising the Airport Extreme as being "2.5x faster" in countries where 802.11n isn't allowed to use the 5ghz spectrum at all, I'm wondering if a/b/g devices will slow a "5x faster" connection down to 2.5x faster.

If that made any sense at all. :eek: :D

matticus008
Feb 1, 2007, 05:51 PM
It wasn't rumor or speculation, it was a working -n card under Windows. That's called a fact, which is much different than rumor or speculation.
You're still missing the point that that status was never promised to you. It doesn't matter what other people experienced--you can't base buying decisions on anecdotal evidence (truthful or otherwise).


Perhaps, a counter-example would be helpful. Please describe any other piece of hardware in a Mac that is working, but at a purposely diminished level.
That's precisely the point. This is the first and only instance where Apple shipped out hardware without the software to take full advantage of it. Had the software been ready, it would have been sold as pre-n from the beginning.

Sure, nothing is guaranteed in life. Apple has just never chosen to charge for a driver before. Ever.
And they've never shipped incomplete hardware before, either. It doesn't indicate a new direction. Single events do not make trends.

Apple is now charging for improved hardware drivers. That changes its value model.
How? It shipped hardware that was feature-complete as advertised (but with latent, unrealized hardware), and then needed to find a way to activate the superior-than-reported hardware without raising suspicion. If you prefer, they could have never released the enabler and left these customers out in the cold entirely.

But they're still charging $2 for -n as an add-on if you go and buy a new machine today. So they're either lying about the SarBox requirement or nickle-and-diming new buyers.
According to whom? Furthermore, does the product indicate that it has 802.11n capabilities? If it doesn't, from where exactly do you draw your entitlement?
You're confused about what a driver is. They don't enable hardware. They provide an interface for an operating system to access hardware resources.
And without one, you can't use the hardware. Again, I ask, how could they enable 802.11n capabilities without a driver to do so?
(and all these machines came with a man page describing those features)
My PowerBook G4 also has man pages on it describing 802.11n operation. They came with developer updates. Does that mean my G4 has the capability, too? Maybe you're confused about what man pages are. They're generic manuals for software commands, not evidence of specifications.

goosnarrggh
Feb 2, 2007, 11:11 AM
According to whom? Furthermore, does the product indicate that it has 802.11n capabilities? If it doesn't, from where exactly do you draw your entitlement?

According to Apple.
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

Communications

* Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (802.11g standard; 802.11n capable with optional 802.11n enabler)

They clearly state that 802.11g is available by default on new iMacs, and that 802.11n is only available via an optional enabler. Ie, they consider the 802.11n driver to be a value-added option.

(In case the linked page ever changes... retrieval date: February 2, 2007 at 1309h AST)

matticus008
Feb 2, 2007, 04:57 PM
They clearly state that 802.11g is available by default on new iMacs, and that 802.11n is only available via an optional enabler. Ie, they consider the 802.11n driver to be a value-added option.

802.11n may already be installed on your Mac, if it was built after the release of the enabler, but seeing as though it was just released, it's unlikely anyone has such a Mac. Current inventory will not have the enabler installed, but it remains to be seen whether new products will include it once the order line has been refreshed. Obviously purchase is not the only way to get the update:

"Do you need the AirPort Extreme 802.11n Enabler?
Before purchasing the 802.11n Enabler software, please check to make sure that your Mac does not already have the 802.11n enabler already installed."
Source (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=D4141ZM/A)

More to the point, that explicit statement is exactly what I mean--customers were never offered 802.11n as part of the baseline. It is an additional feature not originally sold with the machines in question. Now, they are being told up front that they may need to spend $2 more if they want 802.11n, just as upgrading to a SuperDrive used to cost extra, or a faster processor, a better video card, or once upon a time, an Airport card. Until the announcement, customers can have no expectation beyond the specs as originally listed, which did not offer 802.11n in any capacity.

tunanut
Feb 15, 2007, 02:23 PM
It's been stated that the 802.11n enabler is also shipped with the new Airport Ex bases, but, uh, where is it and how is it 'enabled?'
:confused:

SeaFox
Feb 15, 2007, 04:58 PM
It's been stated that the 802.11n enabler is also shipped with the new Airport Ex bases, but, uh, where is it and how is it 'enabled?'
:confused:

It probably part of the new Airport Admin utility software you install when you get the base station.

tunanut
Feb 15, 2007, 05:14 PM
Thanks. Well, wouldn't you know my May '06 vintage of the MacBook Pro is one that will NOT accept updating to 'n.' What a crock.

:mad:

mashinhead
Mar 2, 2007, 09:53 PM
How do you know if you have a draft "n" card in your computer. I got a refurb and all it says is: AirPort Extreme (0x168C, 0x87)

Is that a draft N? I would like to know, thanks.

PlaceofDis
Mar 2, 2007, 09:55 PM
How do you know if you have a draft "n" card in your computer. I got a refurb and all it says is: AirPort Extreme (0x168C, 0x87)

Is that a draft N? I would like to know, thanks.

only the Core 2 Duo machines have 'em.

mashinhead
Mar 2, 2007, 10:09 PM
only the Core 2 Duo machines have 'em.

i got one but all it says is this: AirPort Extreme (0x168C, 0x87)

which to me is inconclusive.

ortuno2k
Mar 3, 2007, 02:09 AM
i got one but all it says is this: AirPort Extreme (0x168C, 0x87)

which to me is inconclusive.

I don't know where you're looking, but if you have a Core 2 Duo iMac, MacBook or MacBook Pro, your network card supports upgrading to N.

Once you've upgraded (or to check if you already have the upgrade) you can do a search on spotlight for Network Utility. Open that and go to the Info tab (should open automatically on that tab).

Then select from the different network interface options and you'll find your wireless adapter there. On my MBP it's Network Interface (en1).

It tells you which speeds it supports. You will only see the N here after you've upgraded.