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MacRumors
Jan 30, 2007, 02:50 PM
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Despite increasing pressure from several European countries (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/24/european-countries-up-pressure-on-itunes-fairplay/) surrounding Apple's use of exclusive DRM technology in their iTunes Store and iPod, Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2007/01/30/afx3376841.html) quotes Luxembourg's finance minister as saying that online video sales could be coming to Europe this spring.

Jeannot Krecke said Apple bosses have been in discussion 'for several months' with Luxembourg authorities. The deal is pending official confirmation from Apple, he noted.

Luxembourg has been Apple's base of operations for the iTunes Store in Europe due to the low VAT for online services.



Clive At Five
Jan 30, 2007, 02:55 PM
Yes, the DRM "scandal" in the EU is going to become even more of an interesting story if Video content is added...

-Clive

Bye Bye Baby
Jan 30, 2007, 02:56 PM
Finalmente!!, finalment!!

Been waiting for ages!!

timmillwood
Jan 30, 2007, 03:07 PM
i cant wait for this, it will give Apple TV a use in the UK.

I just hope they have all the good films and TV shows on early. There is no point downloading it if you can see it on TV 1 hr later.

But if they put shows on UK iTunes when they come out in US that would be great, i hate waiting for the hit US shows in the UK

Desperate Housewives
Lost
24
Prison Break
Veronica Mars
Heroes
etc etc etc...

bilbo--baggins
Jan 30, 2007, 03:07 PM
About time too. Hopefully not too long after I receive my Apple TV...

ninahere
Jan 30, 2007, 03:09 PM
Apple thinks Europe is France, UK, Germany and perhaps Italy.
Half of Europe (even EU countries) doesn't have access to iTunes at all.
That is why this "coming to Europe" sounds ridiculus in my ears.

mazola
Jan 30, 2007, 03:10 PM
Is Canada part of Europe?

vendettabass
Jan 30, 2007, 03:15 PM
top gear, the office and 24 pleaaaaaaaaaase

BoyBach
Jan 30, 2007, 03:15 PM
Is Canada part of Europe?


Only if we invade you. ;) :p

OwlsAndApples
Jan 30, 2007, 03:20 PM
PLease please please Top Gear! :)

Finally...

hollerz
Jan 30, 2007, 03:20 PM
would love 24, the new series is the only one i've watched and i'm hooked. would love to be able to download the old series. oh, and in HD please :P

sparks9
Jan 30, 2007, 03:21 PM
Apple thinks Europe is France, UK, Germany and perhaps Italy.
Half of Europe (even EU countries) doesn't have access to iTunes at all.
That is why this "coming to Europe" sounds ridiculus in my ears.

Umm...
What do you mean half of EU dont have access to iTunes??

xJulianx
Jan 30, 2007, 03:22 PM
would love 24, the new series is the only one i've watched and i'm hooked. would love to be able to download the old series. oh, and in HD please :P

I also would love to be able to watch 24 over iTunes, I don't have Sky, so unless I buy the boxsets I can't watch it...and never have for this very reason :(

All of the previous series would be nice aswell.

xJulianx
Jan 30, 2007, 03:23 PM
Umm...
What do you mean half of EU dont have access to iTunes??

iTunes store I think he meant.

jfanning
Jan 30, 2007, 03:24 PM
Apple thinks Europe is France, UK, Germany and perhaps Italy.
Half of Europe (even EU countries) doesn't have access to iTunes at all.
That is why this "coming to Europe" sounds ridiculus in my ears.

From the iTunes store I can choose Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Spain, Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Austria, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden, UK

That's 17 countries isn't it?

Doctor Q
Jan 30, 2007, 03:25 PM
Expanding their video business internationally is clearly something Apple wants to do.

It's just up to the lawyers to make it possible, as was getting iTunes (for music) in the various countries in the first place.

reckless_0001
Jan 30, 2007, 03:28 PM
What ah-boot Canada, eh? :p

hollerz
Jan 30, 2007, 03:31 PM
I also would love to be able to watch 24 over iTunes, I don't have Sky, so unless I buy the boxsets I can't watch it...and never have for this very reason :(

All of the previous series would be nice aswell.

Yeah, theres Lost aswell, dunno if you watch Lost but Sky One have bought it so people with terrestrial or freeview can't watch it now. Having it on iTunes would make a lot of people happy!

ninahere
Jan 30, 2007, 03:33 PM
Umm...
What do you mean half of EU dont have access to iTunes??

This is the list of all EU members:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

Now go to iTunes and check how many countries can be found
on the "My Store" list (bottom of the screen).

xJulianx
Jan 30, 2007, 03:33 PM
Yeah, theres Lost aswell, dunno if you watch Lost but Sky One have bought it so people with terrestrial or freeview can't watch it now. Having it on iTunes would make a lot of people happy!

i used to watch Lost, but slowly lost interest during series 2, I was starting to get frustrated with episodes never answering questions and only creating new questions. :p

ninahere
Jan 30, 2007, 03:36 PM
From the iTunes store I can choose Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Spain, Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Austria, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden, UK

That's 17 countries isn't it?

And how many countries are there in the EU?
17? or 27?

reckless_0001
Jan 30, 2007, 03:36 PM
i used to watch Lost, but slowly lost interest during series 2, I was starting to get frustrated with episodes never answering questions and only creating new questions. :p

I hear yah, I still wish I knew some things from season one. Like the trees moving on the first few episodes.

hollerz
Jan 30, 2007, 03:38 PM
i used to watch Lost, but slowly lost interest during series 2, I was starting to get frustrated with episodes never answering questions and only creating new questions. :p

haha yeah, your right, especially when one episode ends and you don't find out what happened or get the answer till about 5 episodes later!! maybe thats why I love it so much though :D

manu chao
Jan 30, 2007, 03:38 PM
From the iTunes store I can choose Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Spain, Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Austria, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden, UK

That's 17 countries isn't it?

Poland, Czech Republic, Slowakia, Slowenia, Hungary, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Cyprus and Malta are all members of the EU since almost three years now. Romania and Bulgaria just joined as well. Then there are the others like Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia and not to speak of Belarus, Ukraine and Moldovia.

I think that is a substantial number of European countries without an iTMS (or iTS). (not counting these borderline states like Turkey and the Caucasus).

chrisblore
Jan 30, 2007, 03:39 PM
And how many countries are there in the EU?
17? or 27?

Now 27 countries in the EU

iJawn108
Jan 30, 2007, 03:50 PM
top gear, the office and 24 pleaaaaaaaaaase

omg top gear would be wicked on itunes :p

shawnce
Jan 30, 2007, 03:52 PM
This is the list of all EU members:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

Now go to iTunes and check how many countries can be found
on the "My Store" list (bottom of the screen).

You said only half of the EU (27 / 2 = 13.5)... which isn't correctly in terms of the number of countries, economic base, or population base.... which was what I think he was questioning.

brad.c
Jan 30, 2007, 03:52 PM
Only if we invade you. ;) :p

Oh, that would be great! My schedule is pretty open next week, I could do with a good invasion. Shall we say Tuesday? :D

Oh wait, I see Scotland's invasion force is already here.

ninahere
Jan 30, 2007, 03:55 PM
Now 27 countries in the EU

Exactly.

So my friends, if I may ask, please go to your nearest apple store
and express your support by asking Apple representatives to open iTS
to the whole EU, not only parts of it. Otherwise, when you finally
come to Eastern Europe hunting for your "next wife or even two",
there will be no music for you!!! (not to mention videos!!).

freddiecable
Jan 30, 2007, 03:55 PM
BTW - norway is not part of the EU.

xJulianx
Jan 30, 2007, 03:57 PM
So, were talking about Europe, or the European Union?

sparks9
Jan 30, 2007, 04:05 PM
Poland, Czech Republic, Slowakia, Slowenia, Hungary, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Cyprus and Malta are all members of the EU since almost three years now. Romania and Bulgaria just joined as well. Then there are the others like Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia and not to speak of Belarus, Ukraine and Moldovia.

I think that is a substantial number of European countries without an iTMS (or iTS). (not counting these borderline states like Turkey and the Caucasus).

Um... Give Apple some time. Those countries recently joined....

longofest
Jan 30, 2007, 04:13 PM
So, were talking about Europe, or the European Union?

The story says "European" not the EU.

the Helix
Jan 30, 2007, 04:13 PM
I already am purchasing videos from the iTunes store in Europe!

Correction: I am an American in Europe purchasing videos from the American site of iTunes while in Europe. Does that still count as purchasing from iTunes in Europe? ;-)

RealMcCoy
Jan 30, 2007, 04:15 PM
... donīt you get the show from the us-store ?

xJulianx
Jan 30, 2007, 04:17 PM
The story says "European" not the EU.

Yeah I knew that but thought maybe the discussion had moved on to the EU because of all the mentioning of it.

lamadude
Jan 30, 2007, 04:18 PM
BTW - norway is not part of the EU.

Switzerland isn't either. A lot of the time when people, especially businesses say Europe they mean EU15+Norway and Switzerland. That's not gonna change (sadly) just because the EU has expanded to EU27. And even if that would change we would still be forgetting about tons of other countries.

Data
Jan 30, 2007, 04:31 PM
I 'm really looking forward to this, depending on the price per movie/episode , and the quality of the download.
And then i would like to know , how i can back up my downloaded movies to dvd so i don't lose it all in case my hardrive crashes, if i can't do that, ill keep on buying regular dvd's instead of downloading the movies.

sokrates
Jan 30, 2007, 04:32 PM
Um... Give Apple some time. Those countries recently joined....

well excuse me but who cares?
countries like the ones mentioned above still use dial up to access the internet, how many ppl could possibly download movies? so there's absolutely no point for apple to expand there yet. I was even surprised to see that greece has it's own store, broadband has only been available for about two years there (and still is quite expensive) And besides that, Germany, France and the UK make up about 1/3 of the european population AND are considerably wealthy countries where a majority of peple can actually afford to spend money on 25 mbit internet access and on buying things legaly you can basically get for free via torrent. So yes, when thinking in terms of profit, Germany, France and UK basically are Europe. And that is not meant as an offence to anyone who lives in Bulgaria or elsewhere.
It's just business

jfanning
Jan 30, 2007, 04:48 PM
Poland, Czech Republic, Slowakia, Slowenia, Hungary, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Cyprus and Malta are all members of the EU since almost three years now. Romania and Bulgaria just joined as well. Then there are the others like Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia and not to speak of Belarus, Ukraine and Moldovia.

I think that is a substantial number of European countries without an iTMS (or iTS). (not counting these borderline states like Turkey and the Caucasus).

According to the free rag today the average wage in Bulgaria is 2450 euro per yeah, some of the other countries you list would be similar. I don't think buying shows from iTunes is going to be top of the priority list for people.

Data
Jan 30, 2007, 04:55 PM
According to the free rag today the average wage in Bulgaria is 2450 euro per yeah, some of the other countries you list would be similar. I don't think buying shows from iTunes is going to be top of the priority list for people.

I'm sure apple is not looking at that, i think it's only a matter of taxing and other crounty binded rules for this kind of sales in a store.
I'm dutch, we have the highest % of broadband internet connection in the world (per head in the country , last time i checked anyway ) , and the average income is like 1300 euro per month in think, but no movies or series in the itunes store .

kashimo
Jan 30, 2007, 05:00 PM
So many countries...so many TV programs...many different movies (locally produced). That would be an amazing amount of content. Apple would have to deal with each TV and movie company in Europe individually, right?

I wonder if Apple shouldn't try Japan and Canada first. Might be a much easier road. And while they get those markets up, they deal with Europe.

ninahere
Jan 30, 2007, 05:07 PM
They say ignorance is the mother of supersition, right?

well excuse me but who cares?

I do, as you've probably noticed.

countries like the ones mentioned above still use dial up to access the internet, how many ppl could possibly download movies?

Really? Have you ever been there? I have a 6mbit DSL connection. Not too much, but is it enough to download a movie from iTS? I think it is, since I can watch TV in real time using it. So do my friends and my parents. I do not know anyone who uses dialup, while many of my American friends do.

And besides that, Germany, France and the UK make up about 1/3 of the european population

Perhaps Switzerland would be a better example? Is it more profitable to have iTS in Switzerland than in a 40 million country like Poland? I don't think so.

AND are considerably wealthy countries where a majority of peple can actually afford to spend money on 25 mbit internet access and on buying things legaly you can basically get for free via torrent

iTMS stuff is often cheaper than legal cds that are sold in stores.
It seems people can afford analog versions, why wouldn't they afford
digital ones?

So yes, when thinking in terms of profit, Germany, France and UK basically are Europe.

I think you should check your map again.

jfanning
Jan 30, 2007, 05:07 PM
I'm sure apple is not looking at that, i think it's only a matter of taxing and other crounty binded rules for this kind of sales in a store.
I'm dutch, we have the highest % of broadband internet connection in the world (per head in the country , last time i checked anyway ) , and the average income is like 1300 euro per month in think, but no movies or series in the itunes store .

I'm in Ireland, and according to reports the other day they are now the richest non oil producting country, also no tv shows, or movies, but at the way Apple tends to price things over here I'm not sure if it will be worth it when it arrives anyway.

freddiecable
Jan 30, 2007, 05:07 PM
denmark is the highest...

http://www.oecd.org/document/9/0,2340,en_2649_34223_37529673_1_1_1_1,00.html

that's a quite low avarage income btw.

anyhow - the more coverage apple has on iTMS the better. Former east european is quickly developing - so it's good to be there from the beginning.

I'm sure apple is not looking at that, i think it's only a matter of taxing and other crounty binded rules for this kind of sales in a store.
I'm dutch, we have the highest % of broadband internet connection in the world (per head in the country , last time i checked anyway ) , and the average income is like 1300 euro per month in think, but no movies or series in the itunes store .

Poff
Jan 30, 2007, 05:26 PM
They say ignorance is the mother of supersition, right?

Hehe.. Americans always tend to believe most european countries are poor and still in the 60's. Which is rather funny because most americans are still back in the stone age when it comes to technology.. :D

I think they can join the club with the rest of us Europeans when they stop using checks.. :)

ninahere
Jan 30, 2007, 05:37 PM
Hehe.. Americans always tend to believe most european countries are poor and still in the 60's. Which is rather funny because most americans are still back in the stone age when it comes to technology.. :D

I heard that they recently discovered the SMS technology? I was told it's getting more and more popular these days.


I know, now I am ignorant. Sorry about that. Please don't beat me ;)

geiger167
Jan 30, 2007, 06:03 PM
We wont be getting any decent first run shows on itunes in the uk (or I doubt europe - this is fact you wont be seeing episodes of lost or heroes for example the same week they are shown in USA) so find it hard to get excited by this news. And apparently since we are all rich in England what dregs we do get tossed over will be old and over priced in comparison with the rest of the world (try buying a decent house in this country for a reasonable price we live in shoe boxes compared to the Americans)

Sorry but apple completely missed the boat with itunes tv show/movie downloads and most people in the uk have found other avenues now to download there weekly needs :(

kashimo
Jan 30, 2007, 06:07 PM
I always thought that Europe was that place next to China. Don't you all live in grass huts? I guess I was wrong. :rolleyes:

You know...funny. Japan is the 2nd richest nation in the world. There are virtually no dial-up systems left as every provider said, "go fiber optic high speed or don't use the internet." My in-laws last year got a call from their provider (a local cable company) telling them they are shutting down their dial-up system and they had to upgrade. My in-laws barely even turn on their computer. They upgraded to this high-speed cable thing that can download huge files in seconds.

Guess what...iTNS Japan...no movies...no TV...some music videos (99% western artists)

Last week AU (Mobile) started offering Music Videos of Japanese artists for download to cellphones that sync through a Windows ONLY software for full screen viewing via Media Center/X-box...to TV.

timmillwood
Jan 30, 2007, 06:19 PM
... donīt you get the show from the us-store ?

I would if i could, but i need a US credit card or paypal account, i tried getting a paypal account and just saying im in US but i need a US credit card to add funds to the paypal account.

Data
Jan 30, 2007, 06:23 PM
denmark is the highest...

http://www.oecd.org/document/9/0,2340,en_2649_34223_37529673_1_1_1_1,00.html

that's a quite low avarage income btw.

anyhow - the more coverage apple has on iTMS the better. Former east european is quickly developing - so it's good to be there from the beginning.

I'm guessing income wise, but the inter net connections are super in the netherlands ;-).

Point is that that does not say much about why a store is available in a country with movies or not .

Ugg
Jan 30, 2007, 06:34 PM
According to the free rag today the average wage in Bulgaria is 2450 euro per yeah, some of the other countries you list would be similar. I don't think buying shows from iTunes is going to be top of the priority list for people.

There are a lot of rich and middle class Bulgarians, Romanians, Slovaks, Poles, etc, etc. A year and a half ago when in eastern Europe, I saw more Power Books and ibooks than all other laptops combined. Sarajevo and Bratislava have Apple distributors, no PCs, just Macs.

Apple is making a mistake by not going into eastern Europe. It's a rapidly growing market and by not having at the very least an iTunes Music Store available, they're shooting themselves in the foot. Yeah, I know, fighting the music distributors must be a royal pain in the arse but they still should make an attempt.

brendanryder
Jan 30, 2007, 07:09 PM
but still what about canada?

Mac Fly (film)
Jan 30, 2007, 08:15 PM
While they're at it why don't they think about putting some Apple stores here in Europe too? (Besides just England)

SMM
Jan 30, 2007, 09:41 PM
Yes, the DRM "scandal" in the EU is going to become even more of an interesting story if Video content is added...

-Clive

Why is it a scandal? Apple came up with the technology and business plan to bring this very successful product/service forward. Now others want to come in a reap the rewards without any of the risk and work it took to make it happen. They are not prohibited from bringing their own competitive package forward. They do not want to do the work. They just want to make a player and have the rest handed to them. It reminds me of 'the little red hen'.

chuckles:)
Jan 30, 2007, 09:45 PM
but still what about canada?

the CRTC decides who is allowed to sell television content in canada.
they have several rules:

1) 30% of all content must be canadian
2) all programs must be registered with the CRTC
3) all sources of television content must brodcast from INSIDE Canada

Apple managed to bypass music by claiming that a one time purchase does not count as radio.

Because, however, apple offers subscriptions to the t.v. shows, it is deemed a television service provider.

odds are we wont be seeing tv shows in canada for some time, since all 3 of the conditions would be quite hard for apple to meet. :mad:

(that is unless the conservatives finally scrap the Canadian Radio Television Council)

MacSamurai
Jan 30, 2007, 10:28 PM
WooT go luxembourg!!best country ever :)

eric67
Jan 31, 2007, 02:52 AM
Why is it a scandal? Apple came up with the technology and business plan to bring this very successful product/service forward. Now others want to come in a reap the rewards without any of the risk and work it took to make it happen. They are not prohibited from bringing their own competitive package forward. They do not want to do the work. They just want to make a player and have the rest handed to them. It reminds me of 'the little red hen'.
You only look at the business side, not at the legal side.
In other words, when purchasing a music track on iTS, you buy the license to be able to play the music track as a digital media, oki cool, but then you decide to go for another music player, and find yourself screwed by crappy DRM whereas you legally own the license and the associated rights to play the music track on a digital player.
so yes it is a scandal, for sure. No, Apple is NOT responsible at all for that crappy situation.
Apple has implemented a DRM system on request, following Music Majors pressures. Microsoft followed Apple (as usual, as Microsoft does not mean innovation), and released a DRM system Play4Sure to offer to other distributors as Apple decided not to license its Fairplay DRM. Then of course, today consumers are in the middle of a place where MS tries to get a piece of online music business by claiming Apple's monopoly on online music business; while the responsible group of all this mess are Music majors.
So, from a strictly legal point of view, DRM should be interoperable to preserve consumer rights, and lawyers and law makers should pressure Music Majors and not distributors as Apple with its iTS to make it possible.

back to the topic:
hardmac reported almsot a week ago that iTunesStore video content will be available in some EU countries in March/April:
Video on European iTunesStore in March/April : http://www.hardmac.com/news/2007-01-26/#6357
:rolleyes:

Evangelion
Jan 31, 2007, 03:02 AM
Apple thinks Europe is France, UK, Germany and perhaps Italy.

Apple thinks that "Europe" is UK, and UK alone. How many Apple Stores there are in Europe? IIRC, eight. Every... single... one... of... them... in... the... UK... No stores in Italy. No stores in Germany. No Stores in France. No stores in Spain. No stores in BeNeLux. No Stores in the Nordic countries. None. Few stores in UK and that's it.

As it happens, California alone has more stores than Europe and Japan combined. A lot more.

Compile 'em all
Jan 31, 2007, 03:29 AM
Apple thinks that "Europe" is UK, and UK alone. How many Apple Stores there are in Europe? IIRC, eight. Every... single... one... of... them... in... the... UK... No stores in Italy. No stores in Germany. No Stores in France. No stores in Spain. No stores in BeNeLux. No Stores in the Nordic countries. None. Few stores in UK and that's it.

As it happens, California alone has more stores than Europe and Japan combined. A lot more.

Yeah. That is really sad :(.

garybUK
Jan 31, 2007, 03:34 AM
We can get tv shows on our mobiles, through SKY, Three, Orange & Vodafone.

Trouble is without a US distributer being on board most of the good shows won't be available anyway.

Thing to remember, Apple are a US company and of course are going to look after their home market first.

But what irrates me is the fact that it's illegal to not sell pan-eu, it's a right of any EU citizen to buy from any other state.

timber
Jan 31, 2007, 05:11 AM
I don't really care for iTunes DRM low quality (sound or video) stuff I won't buy.

What I really would like is an Apple store.

SMM
Jan 31, 2007, 12:35 PM
You only look at the business side, not at the legal side.
In other words, when purchasing a music track on iTS, you buy the license to be able to play the music track as a digital media, oki cool, but then you decide to go for another music player, and find yourself screwed by crappy DRM whereas you legally own the license and the associated rights to play the music track on a digital player.
so yes it is a scandal, for sure. No, Apple is NOT responsible at all for that crappy situation.
Apple has implemented a DRM system on request, following Music Majors pressures. Microsoft followed Apple (as usual, as Microsoft does not mean innovation), and released a DRM system Play4Sure to offer to other distributors as Apple decided not to license its Fairplay DRM. Then of course, today consumers are in the middle of a place where MS tries to get a piece of online music business by claiming Apple's monopoly on online music business; while the responsible group of all this mess are Music majors.
So, from a strictly legal point of view, DRM should be interoperable to preserve consumer rights, and lawyers and law makers should pressure Music Majors and not distributors as Apple with its iTS to make it possible.

back to the topic:
hardmac reported almsot a week ago that iTunesStore video content will be available in some EU countries in March/April:
Video on European iTunesStore in March/April : http://www.hardmac.com/news/2007-01-26/#6357
:rolleyes:

I actually look more on the moral side. if I looked at the 'business side', I would say 'fair game' and go with the legal side. Too many peopel want things for free - like the companies who want to jump into the business Apple as developed.

oncemore
Jan 31, 2007, 12:45 PM
This is pretty cool but what will apple do about subtitles and audio languages in country's that aren't english speaking?

reverie
Jan 31, 2007, 01:54 PM
About iTunes' Fairplay DRM:

@eric67 is right. It's not Apple's fault, but they are certainly not in a consumer friendly position. And I want to add: I don't understand how some Apple fans here prefer to argue in Apple's interest more than in their own consumer interest. How can you call yourself a music collector if the music you collect will be dependent on some corporation's control until the day that you die?

About the iTunes Store in Eastern Europe:

I realize it's a question of national pride for @ninahere, but Eastern Europe is not half of Europe at all.

Most of these countries are tiny. All 10 eastern EU countries taken together represent less than 20% of EU population and less than 10% of the EU economy.

Even the tiny Switzerland (8 Mio ppl, 360 Bio GDP) has an economy that is 20% bigger than Poland's (40 Mio ppl, 300 Bio GDP). Apple pretty much covered all major markets in Europe.

About the lack of Apple Stores in continental Europe:

I totally agree, it sucks. Apple is very US-centric in most of their actions and going to the UK must feel like an achievement for them. I guess we will see some Apple Stores in Europe eventually. The Rome, Italy store has reportedly been in preperations for months and will surely open this year. For more info you can go to www.ifoapplestore.com.

BTW Gravis (Germany's biggest Apple retailer) opened their new flagship store in Berlin this Monday. They say it boasts 1500 m2 (16.000 square feet) on two floors. Haven't been there yet, but you can see this everywhere: Apple Retailers copying the Apple Store and thereby spreading the Apple word on a more visible level. That's why Apple went into retail in the first place, right?

About TV and movie content in the European iTunes Stores:

I guess this must be a total mess for Apple to negotiate when they want to bring on American content. Essentially there will be three parties at the table: Not just Apple and Hollywood/US TV producers, but also the European TV channels/movie distributors, who don't own the content, but want to be the first to use them. I guess they will see Apple as their rival bidding for exclusive content.

I wonder what kind of proposal Apple can make the European customers, but I doubt it will be very compelling. Anyway, I'm fine with DVDs, so that's their problem.

princealfie
Jan 31, 2007, 02:18 PM
This is complete discrimination!!!

I want European TV shows and Apple insults us by not putting those on our iTunes. Not faaaaaaaiiiiirrrr!!!

Why do Europeans get US TV shows which are mostly lousy and we don't get European TV shows on our shores? :mad:

ninahere
Jan 31, 2007, 02:25 PM
I realize it's a question of national pride for @ninahere, but Eastern Europe is not half of Europe at all.

Then why don't they at least allow us to use the American iTS?
They require an American credit card to do so. WHY???
I don't really need a localized version of the store, I just want to
use my non-American Visa and buy some music.
It is possible with Amazon, why not with iTS????

reverie
Jan 31, 2007, 02:31 PM
Then why don't they at least allow us to use the American iTS?
They require an American credit card to do so. WHY???
I don't really need a localized version of the store, I just want to
use my non-American Visa and buy some music.
It is possible with Amazon, why not with iTS????

You should ask the media companies. It's not Apple's fault.

reverie
Jan 31, 2007, 02:40 PM
This is complete discrimination!!!

I want European TV shows and Apple insults us by not putting those on our iTunes. Not faaaaaaaiiiiirrrr!!!

Why do Europeans get US TV shows which are mostly lousy and we don't get European TV shows on our shores? :mad:

Sadly, most of European TV programmings are either US shows or copies of US shows. Original European formats are far and few between. Edit: I have to qualify that. a) I was thinking of entertainment content. Informational and cultural programming is very good and original. b) UK programs are original and oft-copied, too. But that's it. US content is dominant on TV and in cinemas.

If the Long Tail ever becomes reality we might see obscure European programming available for US customers one day, but it could be just as well that content owner will always prefer to "protect their brands" and prefer to do no business at all outside their core markets rather than little business.

manu chao
Jan 31, 2007, 03:57 PM
About iTunes' Fairplay DRM:
How can you call yourself a music collector if the music you collect will be dependent on some corporation's control until the day that you die?


That brings up an interesting question, what happens with the music you bought from the iTS when you die? Can someone inherit it?

Fallinangel
Jan 31, 2007, 06:31 PM
Hi guys,

The EU currently has 27 Members!
Switzerland is not one of them, and the UK often behaves as if it's not a member either.

However, what most outsiders don't know is that Europe is not like the US!
Most of the countries have an individual language! Movies have to be translated or subtitled into a multitude of languages, which is one of the causes why it often takes over a year until a US series (Lost, Desperate Housewives, ...) shows up on TV.
Just think about multilingual DVDs: US DVDs are often only in US English (for the USA and Canada) and French (for Canada). In Europe, there exist a multitude of versions of the same DVD, or the DVD contains at least 5 dubs (often German, French, English, Spanish, Italien) and still other languages in subtitles.
However the British and French are priviledged because the United Kingdom gets the US versions with a delay (as far as I know) and France the French Canadian ones!

Furthermore, the new members don't even have the Euro (currency) yet, and are often preoccupied with socio-political problems! Major parts of the population are often poor people that can't afford an internet connection, so why would they need an ITMS? Also Apple wouldn't make any profit!
You could also ask yourselves why there is no ITMS in Iran or Israel!?

Also, most European countries have their own TV Shows!

I don't believe that any European ITMS will offer the US releases of movies and TV series, because that would ruin any TV Channel that gives a damn about translating the series or movies.
Even the US producers would lose a lot of money not being able to sell the rights to European broadcasters anymore!

Also, lots of older and less educated Europeans don't speak English, except of course the British!

You see expanding their music and video business worldwide, might be a real challenge for Apple!
In my opinion, the :apple:TV is futile in Europe at the moment!
I don't need to watch photos on my TV, if I have a digi-cam with a video output, and to listen to music over my TV which certainly is crap anyways!
Converting video content to mp4, might be considered to be an option, but that's too much asked for in my opinion, because you can get much cheaper options that play nearly every common video format!

Apple still is a US enterprise and will always be one!
Just think of the apple online stores which aren't available in every European country either!
I am from Luxembourg! We have an ITMS with limited content and an Apple Online Store which doesn't even meet up with the basic needs of the customers! In fact, it's the French store just with the Luxembourgish VAT!
You see Apple comes to Luxembourg for financial profit, but not to ameliorate things!

"Apple, I love your stuff, but you sometimes suck, too!"

Fallinangel
Jan 31, 2007, 06:32 PM
Hi guys,

The EU currently has 27 Members!
Switzerland is not one of them, and the UK often behaves as if it's not a member either.

However, what most outsiders don't know is that Europe is not like the US!
Most of the countries have an individual language! Movies have to be translated or subtitled into a multitude of languages, which is one of the causes why it often takes over a year until a US series (Lost, Desperate Housewives, ...) shows up on TV.
Just think about multilingual DVDs: US DVDs are often only in US English (for the USA and Canada) and French (for Canada). In Europe, there exist a multitude of versions of the same DVD, or the DVD contains at least 5 dubs (often German, French, English, Spanish, Italien) and still other languages in subtitles.
However the British and French are priviledged because the United Kingdom gets the US versions with a delay (as far as I know) and France the French Canadian ones!

Furthermore, the new members don't even have the Euro (currency) yet, and are often preoccupied with socio-political problems! Major parts of the population are often poor people that can't afford an internet connection, so why would they need an ITMS? Also Apple wouldn't make any profit!
You could also ask yourselves why there is no ITMS in Iran or Israel!?

Also, most European countries have their own TV Shows!

I don't believe that any European ITMS will offer the US releases of movies and TV series, because that would ruin any TV Channel that gives a damn about translating the series or movies.
Even the US producers would lose a lot of money not being able to sell the rights to European broadcasters anymore!

Also, lots of older and less educated Europeans don't speak English, except of course the British!

You see expanding their music and video business worldwide, might be a real challenge for Apple!
In my opinion, the :apple:TV is futile in Europe at the moment!
I don't need to watch photos on my TV, if I have a digi-cam with a video output, and to listen to music over my TV which certainly is crap anyways!
Converting video content to mp4, might be considered to be an option, but that's too much asked for in my opinion, because you can get much cheaper options that play nearly every common video format!

Apple still is a US enterprise and will always be one!
Just think of the apple online stores which aren't available in every European country either!
I am from Luxembourg! We have an ITMS with limited content and an Apple Online Store which doesn't even meet up with the basic needs of the customers! In fact, it's the French store just with the Luxembourgish VAT!
You see Apple comes to Luxembourg for financial profit, but not to ameliorate things!

"Apple, I love your stuff, but you sometimes suck, too!"

babyj
Jan 31, 2007, 07:06 PM
There is plenty of original programming in the UK that would be perfect for iTMS.

Though there would be major hurdles for BBC programming being sold for download, as we've kind of already paid for it via the tv license. Then there is the competition issue, the BBC won't be allowed to do it too cheaply as it would screw everyone else (ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, Sky).

Personally, I'd like to see Apple do a deal with the BBC and offer a subscription type service similar to Napster - Ģ10 a month and you can download anything you want and keep viewing as long as you keep paying every month. I'd pay, especially if they open up the archives for content as well.

jhande
Feb 1, 2007, 02:44 AM
well excuse me but who cares?
countries like the ones mentioned above still use dial up to access the internet, how many ppl could possibly download movies? so there's absolutely no point for apple to expand there yet.

You're absolutely right, it's not like, oh... Estonia is completely coveret wrt WIFI (free), og their telecoms is 3g, nosirree they're really backward.

/sarcasm

Some of those countries have come really far, really fast, and as a Scandinavian I sometimes wish we were just as nimble.

Evangelion
Feb 1, 2007, 03:30 AM
In other words, when purchasing a music track on iTS, you buy the license to be able to play the music track as a digital media, oki cool, but then you decide to go for another music player, and find yourself screwed by crappy DRM whereas you legally own the license and the associated rights to play the music track on a digital player.

At which point you burn your purchased music as unprotected content on a CD, and then re-rip that music as a 100% unprotected music back to iTunes.

Yes, DRM sucks. It really, really does. But at least Apple has provided us with a means of bypassing it.

reverie
Feb 1, 2007, 03:14 PM
At which point you burn your purchased music as unprotected content on a CD, and then re-rip that music as a 100% unprotected music back to iTunes.

Yes, DRM sucks. It really, really does. But at least Apple has provided us with a means of bypassing it.

Ok, it's lossy and inconvenient, but at least it works. Though what about DRMed TV and Movies? The window is closing fast.

ogee
Feb 1, 2007, 09:25 PM
From the iTunes store I can choose Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Spain, Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Austria, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden, UK

That's 17 countries isn't it?

Try buying from one that isnt your country of residence. Im a Brit in Germany, but I can not buy from iStore UK, my French wife can not buy from iStore France.... The local German iStore has a different selection from other others.

WHY... don´t you get the show from the us-store ?

See above


But what irrates me is the fact that it's illegal to not sell pan-eu, it's a right of any EU citizen to buy from any other state.

This is incorrect. As a citizen, I have a right to buy from any country in the EU without tax penalties. As a supplier I also have the right to sell into any EU country. Neither the buyer or seller is obliged to do so. Just as I can choose to buy from say France or Sweden, I could also choose NOT to sell to Spain or Poland.

babyj
Feb 1, 2007, 10:29 PM
This is incorrect. As a citizen, I have a right to buy from any country in the EU without tax penalties. As a supplier I also have the right to sell into any EU country. Neither the buyer or seller is obliged to do so. Just as I can choose to buy from say France or Sweden, I could also choose NOT to sell to Spain or Poland.

Not sure about other countries, but in the UK a shop isn't bound to sell anything to anyone. In effect, they offer the item for sale, you offer to buy it, they accept your offer and then the sale is completed. They can refuse to sell to you if they want, though that would kind of defeat the object of being a shop.

Elrond39
Feb 2, 2007, 02:28 AM
Apple thinks that "Europe" is UK, and UK alone. How many Apple Stores there are in Europe? IIRC, eight. Every... single... one... of... them... in... the... UK... No stores in Italy. No stores in Germany. No Stores in France. No stores in Spain. No stores in BeNeLux. No Stores in the Nordic countries. None. Few stores in UK and that's it.

As it happens, California alone has more stores than Europe and Japan combined. A lot more.

Maybe not official Apple Stores, but where I live (Utrecht, the Netherlands) there's two of them. They have all the benefits of "official" Apple Stores (fully stocked, Genius Bar, et al), designed like Apple Stores should be, and you can order directly from Apple via them... So, really, isn't that an Apple Store?

As for movies and series on the various European iTunes Stores... I don't know how attractive it will be if there's a gap between American broadcast-dates (and iTunes releases) of popular shows and the European release. If the newest episode of Veronica Mars, for example, hits the US iTunes Store the day after it's broadcast, but doesn't get put on the Dutch iTunes Store for another month (or some other arbitrary amount of time), then how willing will most people be to pay up? With movies, I think, it's different. I just know that I couldn't bear to be so far behind my American friends on the shows we watch. Might as well just watch them (the ones that actually come on Dutch TV, of course, so VM is a no-go) when they're broadcast on TV.

octarine
Feb 2, 2007, 03:20 AM
Apple thinks that "Europe" is UK, and UK alone. How many Apple Stores there are in Europe? IIRC, eight. Every... single... one... of... them... in... the... UK... No stores in Italy. No stores in Germany. No Stores in France. No stores in Spain. No stores in BeNeLux. No Stores in the Nordic countries.

It does seem strange that we have two in Manchester and none on the continent. Though if you look back, Apple were quite cautious at first when rolling out the stores in the US, but once they'd worked out the market they just exploded.
Perhaps they have high street non-compete deals with major distributors in France and Germany? In the UK there wasn't a Mac distributor of note on the high street before they started opening up Apple stores (and even now there's only 8 of those).

One of the problems with a pan European iTMS store is that music rights/compensations need to be negotiated on a per country rather than an EU wide basis. Lobby your MEP for an EU wide IPR collections agency!

I'd also like to see the UK paying a fair price per track! 1 EUR = 66p! 1 USD = 51p!
My kingdom for a US credit card!

petvas
Feb 2, 2007, 03:28 AM
Apple is a US company and unfortunately thinks US only...

58% of their income is from the USA and the rest comes from all other countries...

There are many countries that dont have an iTunes store or/and an Apple Store. This is absolutely ridiculous! If you look at Microsoft, they are everywhere!!! I am Greek but I live in Germany and here at least are the Gravis Stores and I can also buy online from the Apple Stores. I have dozens of friends in Greece who want to buy Apple products and dont have an Apple Store!!! There is a company in Greece named Rainbow that sells Apple products but they are not good. They are slow (they dont even have the Mac Pros yet!!!) and from them you cannot buy for example original Apple Memory...

Apple should be Worldwide Present! I dont understand why they are not. How can you expect to gain in market share if you are not present? Apple Products should also be available through all market channels, just like all other computer products. The way it is right now, most people think that Apple products are exotic!

I wonder, dont they see what is happening here???

nemesian
Feb 2, 2007, 04:26 AM
QUOTE"Furthermore, the new members don't even have the Euro (currency) yet, and are often preoccupied with socio-political problems! Major parts of the population are often poor people that can't afford an internet connection, so why would they need an ITMS?"END QUOTE

Slovenia is a new member of EU and we do use Euro. Our GDP is as high as Spain and our standard is very close to the EU average. It is a big difference between us and eastern Europe. And there is no iTunes store. So if anyone should be getting it, it is us. We are in Eurozone, people can afford it and no, we don't use dial-up. Most people have VDSL, fiber or cable, unlike many people aborad may think. I don't know anyone who can't afford the internet connection. So if you speak about the poverty in countries like Poland or Slovakia, don't just say all new EU members, cause it is not the same. There is a big difference, since countries like Slovenia, Malta and Cyprus are like the old EU states and the rest is really way behind.

But I guess our market is too small for Apple to be interested. Too bad.

And yeah, according to the FairTrade, we should be able to buy in any EU store. I think they should make a common EU iTunes store. Or at least for Eurozone.

petvas
Feb 2, 2007, 06:16 AM
I am pretty sure that most American underestimate Europe and its power. This was made clear to me the years I worked for Microsoft, since I got the chance to get to know many Americans.

This is because a certain lack of Education plus a mentality issue. How many sport arts are there where their finals have the name "World" in it??? This goes to show how arrogant some people are...

Most Americans have such a low level that dont even know where most European countries are...They know England and maybe Germany...
Please US members here in the forum dont get insulted, I dont mean it in a bad way, its just my impression after many trips to the States and three years working at Microsoft...

Of course there are many US citizens that are well educated and arent as arrogant as most.

I think that Apple suffers from the exact same disease...

Europe is actually much more advanced in many things, such as mobile communications. UMTS is here wide spread and the mobile phones we get here are much better in comparison to the US ones...

I believe that a US company should respect Europe and the rest of the world more...We are all humans at the end...

Lara F
Feb 2, 2007, 05:10 PM
Maybe not official Apple Stores, but where I live (Utrecht, the Netherlands) there's two of them. They have all the benefits of "official" Apple Stores (fully stocked, Genius Bar, et al), designed like Apple Stores should be, and you can order directly from Apple via them... So, really, isn't that an Apple Store?


And check out this mall in Poland (especially in light of the Eastern European discussion).
http://www.galeriamokotow.pl/

Once it loads (you can skip the intro) click the "EN" on the upper right hand side for English, then go to "gallery of shops". They're listed in aphabetical order, and you'll note "Apple". ;) Click on it and you actually get a photo of the store - no idea of the selection of course, but the design sure looks familiar. :p

ogee
Feb 2, 2007, 07:59 PM
Not sure about other countries, but in the UK a shop isn't bound to sell anything to anyone. In effect, they offer the item for sale, you offer to buy it, they accept your offer and then the sale is completed. They can refuse to sell to you if they want, though that would kind of defeat the object of being a shop.

Thats basically what I said, but without UK specifics :)