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tazo
May 21, 2003, 04:54 PM
as someone has already pointed out, the guy does not know how to write a 'good' sentence. Furthermore, the guy is from San Francisco. case closed.


-tazo

vniow
May 21, 2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by tazo
Furthermore, the guy is from San Francisco. case closed.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

tazo
May 21, 2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by vniow
What the hell does that have to do with anything?

A wise man once said, "think about it".

bennetsaysargh
May 21, 2003, 05:11 PM
i've thought about it, and it doesn't make sense! could you please explain to me what's wrong with San Fransisco?

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by tazo
...Furthermore, the guy is from San Francisco. case closed.

What, pray tell, does the fact that the article appeared in an SF paper have to do with anything?

SoonToGetAMac
May 21, 2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by tazo
Furthermore, the guy is from San Francisco. case closed.


-tazo
Edit: No longer needed.

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 05:53 PM
I was going to make some remarks about the article but this back and forth on the San Francisco thing is more amusing. I was reading all these and it didn't once occur to me that he was saying the guy was gay. I usually equate San Franciscans with being very Liberal. The guy is probably just conservative.

I feel for any person who is put down for a belief or way of life. But people who just assume things like the guy is saying he is gay...i mean...c'mon. Grow up.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 05:53 PM
wow the conclusions people jump to. Now tazo is a homophobe and a sanfran basher! oh no! What I meant is that news paper is a historically liberal newspaper, with a liberal viewpoint expressed the majority of the time on various events. To deduce that by my comment I mean the guy was a homosexual and is therefore ripe for the jokes, is a lie and am offended by such a low blow. I do not want to throw this thread off, although it is your people's decision to perpetuate it.
All I was trying to do is to make a joke out of the fact that historically, San Francisco is an extremely liberal city. I would know, I lived there for just over a year.

And for the record, I do not hate homosexuals. Nor San Francisco.

-tazo

tazo
May 21, 2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
I was going to make some remarks about the article but this back and forth on the San Francisco thing is more amusing. I was reading all these and it didn't once occur to me that he was saying the guy was gay. I usually equate San Franciscans with being very Liberal. The guy is probably just conservative.

I feel for any person who is put down for a belief or way of life. But people who just assume things like the guy is saying he is gay...i mean...c'mon. Grow up.

Ok I did not see your post when i was posting my reply, maybe you did while I was posting, anywho Jadariv, you have me perfect to to the t. I consider myself generally conservative, although I feel differently then my conservative peers on some issues (such as cloning, patriot act, and some privacy laws). Anyway, I did not mean that the guy must be gay since he lived in San Francisco and I am glad that someone on this board was able to look to the comment and read it for what it was worth. Thx.

-tazo

bennetsaysargh
May 21, 2003, 05:59 PM
-tazo, thanks for clearing that uo. i didn;t know it was a liberal newspaper, but i didn't jump to any conclusions.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by tazo
wow the conclusions people jump to. Now tazo is a homophobe and a sanfran basher! oh no! What I meant is that news paper is a historically liberal newspaper, with a liberal viewpoint expressed the majority of the time on various events. To deduce that by my comment I mean the guy was a homosexual and is therefore ripe for the jokes, is a lie and am offended by such a low blow. I do not want to throw this thread off, although it is your people's decision to perpetuate it.
All I was trying to do is to make a joke out of the fact that historically, San Francisco is an extremely liberal city. I would know, I lived there for just over a year.

And for the record, I do not hate homosexuals. Nor San Francisco.

-tazo

Then you should have said that from the beginning. You said "Furthermore, the guy is from San Francisco. case closed." NOT "Furthermore, the guy is from a liberal newspaper. case closed."

There's a big difference.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
-tazo, thanks for clearing that uo. i didn;t know it was a liberal newspaper, but i didn't jump to any conclusions.

no problem. Btw I hope i did not say that you yourself did jump to conclusions, I was just commenting on people's comments like ***** (name put in asterisks so as to not offend anyone). Anyway I do not want to cause this thread to go off on any more of a tangent.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Then you should have said that from the beginning. You said "Furthermore, the guy is from San Francisco. case closed." NOT "Furthermore, the guy is from a liberal newspaper. case closed."

There's a big difference.

Ok, I am sorry. :o I was under the now erroneous assumption that people knew that San Francisco is a liberal city. Sorry.

-tazo

bennetsaysargh
May 21, 2003, 06:03 PM
i think we shoyuld stop this conversation before it gets out of hand, and then the thread being closed.

SoonToGetAMac
May 21, 2003, 06:04 PM
Sorry.

kylos
May 21, 2003, 06:04 PM
EDIT: Everything already resolved. No longer needed.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 06:08 PM
I agree lets get this back on topic.


So what is everyone's opinion on this article? I disagree with it. What about you?

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by tazo
Ok, I am sorry. :o I was under the now erroneous assumption that people knew that San Francisco is a liberal city. Sorry.

-tazo

Your only erroneous assumption is that everyone from SF is a liberal. :rolleyes:

Using that as the reason for discounting the article is about as valid as the writer's using corporate greed to blame Apple for the iTMS system.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Your only erroneous assumption is that everyone from SF is a liberal. :rolleyes:

Using that as the reason for discounting the article is about as valid as the writer's using corporate greed to blame Apple for the iTMS system.

Only if it is also erroneous to assume that people in jail have been charged with a crime.

I really do not want to get into this but ya just keep reeling me back in.

-tazo

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by tazo
Only if it is also erroneous to assume that people in jail have been charged with a crime.

I really do not want to get into this but ya just keep reeling me back in.

-tazo

So, then what the hell is this? http://www.sfgop.org/

Of course you don't want to get into it; you're wrong.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 06:25 PM
I will be more mature and neglect to comment on that Rower_CPU

I don't know why you posted a link to that website; I consider myself an independent conservative, not a republican-and trust me there is a difference.

And I never insinuated that the San Francisco area is entirely devoid of any non-liberal representation. I merely stated that a city with a democrat as a mayor, in a state that historically votes democrat.

Why have you taken this upon yourself Rower? Your profile says you live in San Diego.

tazo

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 06:54 PM
tazo-
I'm simply pointing out that your statement was prejudicial and based on stereotype. You cannot assume that someone is "liberal" or "conservative" based on their location in the US.

You tried to get away with pigeonholing the author and several people called you on it. Retract the statement and move on.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
tazo-
I'm simply pointing out that your statement was prejudicial and based on stereotype. You cannot assume that someone is "liberal" or "conservative" based on their location in the US.

You tried to get away with pigeonholing the author and several people called you on it. Retract the statement and move on.

Retract what statement? I already admitted my error in my original posting, and I already apologized.

People make all kinds of assumptions on a topic based on stereotypes and past biases, to believe otherwise is nonsense.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 07:11 PM
tazo-
Perpetuating stereotypes is wrong, and purporting them to be fact is nonsense.

You never apologized.
</offtopic discussion>
---------------------------

I think the iTMS will be great for Apple and the recording industry in general.

Apple is doing a great job balancing the concerns of the RIAA with getting music into consumers' hands.

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 07:13 PM
Well, it's not a stereotype because there is one liberal in San Francisco.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
Well, it's not a stereotype because there is one liberal in San Francisco.

By that logic, the US is a gay nation, since there is at least one gay person here. You need to double-check the meaning of the word.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
tazo-
Perpetuating stereotypes is wrong, and purporting them to be fact is nonsense.

You never apologized.
</offtopic discussion>
---------------------------

I think the iTMS will be great for Apple and the recording industry in general.

Apple is doing a great job balancing the concerns of the RIAA with getting music into consumers' hands.

I beg to differ:
Originally posted by tazo
Ok, I am sorry.
I you don't believe I made that post go look through the thread. It has not been edited.

Perpetuating any stereotype is wrong? So it is wrong to handcuff criminals when being arrested, given the stereotype that people will flee if not in handcuffs. Is it bad to perpetuate the stereotype that if you leave all your windows and doors unlocked in a car, that it will be damaged, stolen, burglarized? Everything is based on a stereotype Rower: People can not have any order in their lives if there is no stereotype, a personal bias by which to live by.

Oh and by the way, what did I purport to fact? When did I say that every single person living in San Francisco is liberal. If I said that then I apologize, because that is a blatant lie. Which is exactly why I didn't post that.

I think it is about time for this to be locked. People's egos are getting in the way of seeing through this guise of BS over such a trivial topic.

-tazo

tazo
May 21, 2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
By that logic, the US is a gay nation, since there is at least one gay person here. You need to double-check the meaning of the word.

I sure hope you mean happy. Because I would feel kinda frustrated if we were back to square block one in which I was construed as a homophobe.

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 07:47 PM
Rower, seriously. I said that it is not a stereotype because there is only "ONE" liberal in San Francisco. It's a stereotype because there are "MANY" liberals in San Francisco.

Piece of advice:

Read and understand.

Not, read, misunderstand, then argue endlessly over a topic that was settled many posts ago.

And, many stereotypes are good and help with many peoples identities (People from my home state of Nebraska pride themselves on being hard working and love college football). Plus, all the jewish comedians i see down at the Comedy Store here in L.A. would have no material .

tazo
May 21, 2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
Rower, seriously. I said that it is not a stereotype because there is only "ONE" liberal in San Francisco. It's a stereotype because there are "MANY" liberals in San Francisco.

Piece of advice:

Read and understand.

Not, read, misunderstand, then argue endlessly over a topic that was settled many posts ago.

And, many stereotypes are good and help with many peoples identities (People from my home state of Nebraska pride themselves on being hard working and love college football). Plus, all the jewish comedians i see down at the Comedy Store here in L.A. would have no material .

You are absolutely correct Jadariv, especially about the 'settled many posts ago' part.

Flowbee
May 21, 2003, 08:04 PM
Remind me to never start a thread that links to an article in the SF Chronicle again. Sheesh! :confused: :eek:

tazo
May 21, 2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
Remind me to never start a thread that links to an article in the SF Chronicle again. Sheesh! :confused: :eek:

flowbee I want to personally apologize. It is my fault for creating the tangent that now consists of the entire thread. this is my personal apology to you


-tazo

Snowy_River
May 21, 2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by tazo
flowbee I want to personally apologize. It is my fault for creating the tangent that now consists of the entire thread. this is my personal apology to you


-tazo

Tazo,

While your apology speaks well of you, it hasn't been entirely your fault. I hope that others who kept egging the tangent on after apologies had been given and most had tried to drop the discussion would also live up to their part in it and apologize too.

Back on topic, do you guys think that the iTMS is a first step toward bringing the information revolution to the Music Industry?

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 08:16 PM
tazo and jadariv-

OK, my final attempt to explain where I'm coming from on this. Stereotypes are not a "personal belief system" or "handy way to categorize people". They are hurtful and serve to further prejudices and misconceptions.

Every person must be treated on a case-by-case basis. My comment on the US being gay follows from the fallacious logic that the presence of one or even many gay people allows someone to arrive at the conclusion that the US is gay. You can't paint people in broad strokes like that. Maybe someday you both will realize that.

It's these kinds of prejudicial subcontexts that Americans are oblivious to, that get the rest of the world mad at us.

tazo, I apologize for missing your apology. I was looking for it in your first post after the SF statement.

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 08:20 PM
I apologize too. My "one liberal in San Francisco" comment was one to many. I'm rendering here at work and got bored.

I still stand by all my comments on the topic, though.

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 08:35 PM
Sorry everyone. This Rower just won't stop.

Rower

You know. I posted my apology. But i have to tell you after your last message i have to say that you simply don't get it.

I think stereotypes are bad. Gay, Black, Hispanic, Women, Computer Geeks, Jewish, Catholic. Yes, they are all bad. But we pick our fights on these and you were way off.

Nobody attacked any Gay people in this forum and i don't know your background or what has happened to you to make you this way but I am liberal and i know that the comment Tazo made was directed at people like me. And i laughed at it because it is just like a conservative to make a comment like that.

Don't sit there and throw his apology and mine back in our faces and act like you have made some point. Because we weren't even arguing your point.

Snowy_River
May 21, 2003, 08:39 PM
Okay, now I'm going to be a little guilty of continuing the tangent, but I want to comment on this...

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
OK, my final attempt to explain where I'm coming from on this. Stereotypes are not a "personal belief system" or "handy way to categorize people". They are hurtful and serve to further prejudices and misconceptions.

Here's a definition...
Stereotype:
1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
2. One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.

So, it can be seen to fit the idea of being both of those things that you say they aren't. It is true that stereotypes can be hurtful and serve to further prejudices, but they can also be helpful.

Every person must be treated on a case-by-case basis. My comment on the US being gay follows from the fallacious logic that the presence of one or even many gay people allows someone to arrive at the conclusion that the US is gay. You can't paint people in broad strokes like that. Maybe someday you both will realize that.

This came from another misunderstanding on your part. He wrote

Well, it's not a stereotype because there is one liberal in San Francisco.

The added statement that would have clarified this would have been "it is a stereotype because there are a lot of liberals in San Francisco."

If I were to travel to Southern Italy, it would help me to understand that most people there are fairly short. As I am tall, I wouldn't be surprised by the need to duck when going through doorways. Does that mean that there are no tall people in Southern Italy? No. It's a stereotype, and one that is helpful.

Similarly, understanding that SF has a very significant population of liberals helps to understand where the author of this article is coming from. It give us a context. Is it true that all SFns are liberals? Certainly not. Is it true that most are? From my experience, yes.

P.S. I'm sorry for keeping this going. Hopefully this will end here. I will not add anything more to this tangent in this thread.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 08:48 PM
I split the thread to move this dicussion out of the iTMS thread.

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 08:53 PM
i happen to agree (knowing tazo's style of posting a tad) that he was probably kidding in general. and i have no reason to think he was talking about gay people. if he was making fun of liberals, i say whatevs.

i just think it's all too easy to miscommunicate on here. and that's certainly the cause of the issue here (as it is with most problems in general)

however. stereotypes most certainly aren't inherently good... sometimes they're somewhat true. but it makes people assume far too much about people without even knowing them. just seeing their skin color or knowing they're a green party supporter, or whatever.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 09:05 PM
In my view, all stereotypes are bad. Period. The convenience of having a label to put on people, places and things does not cancel out the fact that they are used to pigeonhole (synonym of stereotype) and create oversimplified, and UNTRUE categorizations.

Knowing what people are like in a town or place is not stereotyping them, it's simply being aware of the differences between you and them. The original post that touched off this maelstrom said that the article writer was from SF and therefore must be liberal.

Believe what you will, but I can't sit by and let people pass off assumptions as fact.

MrMacMan
May 21, 2003, 09:16 PM
What the hell is this about? :confused:

edit: you know what, I really don't want to know do I?

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 09:20 PM
i think it's safe to say that when people say stereotypes, they don't think of the fact that asians tend to eat a lot of rice (which is a cultural thing). but rather, "jews are pennypinchers." or "blacks are better athletes"... things that while aren't necessarily bad in and of themselves, lead to problems with assumptions. when people approach someone with a preconceived notion based on the stereotype grouped, they often treat them differently than they would without knowing anything about the person (even what they look like)..

to make a long post shorter.. i don't think the italians thing is really a "stereotype" the way most people think of it.. i guess it is by definition.

but basically, it's just another miscommunication in my opinion.

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 09:23 PM
So your saying that just because something has a downside that we should totally discourage it altogether.

Good thing you don't work for the FDA. I might not even have any aspirin for my headaches.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
So your saying that just because something has a downside that we should totally discourage it altogether.

Good thing you don't work for the FDA. I might not even have any aspirin for my headaches.

It's not just a downside, it's a downside that OUTWEIGHS the positives. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

Are you for legalizing narcotics, because they have an "upside"?

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
It's not just a downside, it's a downside that OUTWEIGHS the positives. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

Are you for legalizing narcotics, because they have an "upside"?

touché

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 10:04 PM
I also want to add that stereotyping, although bad, happens to all of us in varying degrees.

It is inherent in all people (and you can yell until your blue in the face that you would never do this) that we make assumptions about people in every day situations based on their skin color, the clothes they wear, the smell of their breath, the fact that they are sleeping on a park bench, or holding hands with the same sex.

It is up to us, as individuals, to break these stereotypes and prove to other people that we transcend the stereotypes. And that this AC/DC shirt i am wearing doesn't mean i do drugs and sit at home all day.

This is one of those problems that is a part of life. And people will say stupid things that will perpetuate these stereotypes. You still know who you are. I know who i am. That guy who wrote the article knows who he is and i'm sure he would have spoken up and proven himself to be more than some dumb San Franciscan liberal if he had seen these forums.

So, i am wholeheartedly agreeing with you.

But what i disagreed with in the first place was that someone made the assumption that Tazo had made a remark towards gays when he hadn't. And people wouldn't let him off the hook for it. All that happened was this big debate ensues that gets everyone all fired up over something that we all basically agree on.

When you worry about stereotyping on this massive (it's all wrong) scale, it's like worrying about that your going to die someday. It's inevitable and it's not worth killing yourself over. Use some of that energy and write a letter to your congressman to stop Jeb Bush from ruining the everglades. Soon there won't be any people left and 2 celled amoebias won't be hanging out with the 1 celled amoebias because everyone knows they have nothing interesting to say.

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 10:10 PM
i think that clears that up... miscomm as i said.

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 10:16 PM
I would like to thank everyone in this discussion. I appear to no longer be a newbie.

Whew. Helluva way to become a regular member.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
I would like to thank everyone in this discussion. I appear to no longer be a newbie.

Whew. Helluva way to become a regular member.

Trial by fire. ;)

tazo
May 21, 2003, 10:28 PM
And just when you think you agree with someone. Look Jadariv, I dont give a **** whether or not you are gay, it does not matter to me. My comment had nothing to do with homosexuals. True the thought crossed my mind that it could possibly be interpetred as that, however that was not my intention.

I think this is an enormous misunderstanding, the thread, or what now is a split topic, is a miusnderstanding in its entirety.

Lets put a few things out here:
-Rower_CPU and I disagree on the issue of stereotyping, however he is a moderator and has the power to ban me.

-Jadariv: I am not homophobic, against gays, or anti-anyone from san francisco. My comment was not to insinuate nor implicate the author of that article as being a homosexual, simply because of his living in San Francisco. I am sorry that you misconstrued my original comment as homophobic, trust me me when I say it was not intended as such.

-Jelloshots: You were correct when you said I was joking, I was. My comment was never intended to induce a bitter debate of 40 replies. Honestly. I was just taking a crack at San Francisco. It would be the same as making a comment like, "oh tazo, you cranky, havent had your starbucks yet??", since I live in Seattle (which is boasts the landmark location of the world-famous)
coffee co.). I would not have been offended, and would have replied like, "LOL", or something to that effect.

-To anyone else: See below.

In closing, people take things online on these types of BB's way too seriously. They are just words on a screen, from people you will most likely never meet. Some people say stupid things online, become guilty of misinterpreting people's statements, and even verbally harassing people (flaming). It happens all too often on message boards such as these, and is becoming an epidemic across the WWW. Unfortunately this will continue in self-perpetuating circle of online verbal violence, in which people misconstrue other's views, and erroneously harass them for their views.

I hope that everyone who has participated in the thread, that iTMS thread learned something today. That in a game of what equates to an online version of 'telephone', someone is bound to mess up the chain.

-tazo

tazo
May 21, 2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
I would like to thank everyone in this discussion. I appear to no longer be a newbie.

Whew. Helluva way to become a regular member.

congratulations.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by tazo
-Rower_CPU and I disagree on the issue of stereotyping, however he is a moderator and has the power to ban me.

Your insunuation that I would abuse my moderator privileges to ban someone I disagree with is insulting. If I was one to sink to that level you would have been banned a while ago. ;)

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 10:35 PM
tazo.

now it's your turn to misinterpret. I never said that you are homophobic. i said in my post clearly that i knew you meant a liberal newspaper. I said that my major beef was with whoever misconstrued you of saying he was homosexual.

I was seriously just trying to make some peace. Sometimes people say things and don't think about the meaning. And a lot of times because of peoples own personal experiences they put their own self into what people say and misconstrue the intentions of what is said.

Kind of like how everyone who reads Moby Dick or some other classic book always has some different interpretation of the contents of the story.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Your insunuation that I would abuse my moderator privileges to ban someone I disagree with is insulting. If I was one to sink to that level you would have been banned a while ago. ;)

Please dont take it offensively. I have been to many message boards where people put egos before common sense. I hope you understand where I am coming from.

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 10:39 PM
tazo- i figured as such based on your joking nature in other threads.


however, as jadariv just said... he was defending you, not saying anything bad.

and in defense of rower (i'd like to think i was a friend), he's cool. and you seem cool from what i can tell.. needless to say i'm VERY cool... so, cool people don't need to miscommunicate any longer.

beer me

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
tazo- i figured as such based on your joking nature in other threads.


however, as jadariv just said... he was defending you, not saying anything bad.

and in defense of rower (i'd like to think i was a friend), he's cool. and you seem cool from what i can tell.. needless to say i'm VERY cool... so, cool people don't need to miscommunicate any longer.

beer me

Allright, as a cool person I'll follow suit.

You're beered.

tazo
May 21, 2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
tazo- i figured as such based on your joking nature in other threads.


however, as jadariv just said... he was defending you, not saying anything bad.

and in defense of rower (i'd like to think i was a friend), he's cool. and you seem cool from what i can tell.. needless to say i'm VERY cool... so, cool people don't need to miscommunicate any longer.

beer me

"with a name like jelloshots he has to be cool..." :p I try and remain cool on what is supposed to be an entertaining place to come after work, hangout with cool people, well albeit online. I would be hanging out at my local teen recreation center, however I was accused of cheating at 8 ball in Billiards (some guy lost to me and then said that cuz he scratched, I had to take the white ball in hand, and aim from there, and I guess I didn't. Which sorta means he is calling me a cheater because I put myself at a disadvantage.) They kicked me out for a week :( So now I can only come here for the time being. :(

Jadariv, I have reviewed all the posts in this thread, and I don't know where I drew the conclusion that you called me a homophobe. I am sorry for that, i guess i drew it from this:
you to make you this way but I am liberal and i know that the comment Tazo made was directed at people like me. I guess it was that 'people like me part'. I am sorry.

:( :(

jadariv
May 21, 2003, 10:46 PM
If any of you come to L.A. and are on the west side. I will definitely beer ya. And i am still stuck here at work. Freakin Rugrats commercial is due on Friday.

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 11:01 PM
the irony of this all.... rower knows what i'm talking about... ha



tazo- as a fellow joker/sarcastic fool... until you'er a bit better known as such, use some smilies so people don't take you quite so seriously all the time... ;) :rolleyes:

tazo
May 21, 2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
the irony of this all.... rower knows what i'm talking about... ha



tazo- as a fellow joker/sarcastic fool... until you'er a bit better known as such, use some smilies so people don't take you quite so seriously all the time... ;) :rolleyes:

I thought I overused smileys. wow. :( lol.

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by tazo
I thought I overused smileys. wow. :( lol.

well you just overused "lol"... though most people here do. once is more than enough... ;)

tazo
May 21, 2003, 11:15 PM
I think i have made too many posts for my own good today. *** :D :D

vniow
May 21, 2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

tazo- as a fellow joker/sarcastic fool... until you'er a bit better known as such, use some smilies so people don't take you quite so seriously all the time... ;) :rolleyes:

How'm I doing?

jelloshotsrule
May 22, 2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by vniow
How'm I doing?

i think you're familiar enough now... plus, you're a member of the ppp... so rules don't apply. though, you still haven't made my design! (haven't checked that thread though either...)

vniow
May 22, 2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
though, you still haven't made my design! (haven't checked that thread though either...)

Sorry, I need some more time with Photoshop.

jelloshotsrule
May 22, 2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by vniow
Sorry, I need some more time with Photoshop.

i'm in no position to complain.

Snowy_River
May 22, 2003, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
In my view, all stereotypes are bad. Period. ...

Okay, I'd like to expand on this. I will agree that all perpetuated stereotypes are bad. But stereotypes in general are a natural coping mechanism, a survival mechanism, sometimes literally. Let me illustrate with a true story...

About fifteen years ago, my dad was standing on a street corner waiting for the signal to change. For whatever reason, he saw an older car with four black young men in it. He immediately stereotyped them, thought 'drive-by shooting', and looked for cover. Mind you, at this point there were no guns visible, they were simply driving down the street. But my dad moved closer to a concrete garbage receptical, and he was able to duck behind it when they suddenly did pull out guns and started shooting.

If my dad hadn't stereotyped those men, he would likely not be alive today. So, I cannot see all stereotyping as bad.

Now, that's an example of stereotyping serving its proper purpose. All to often stereotypes are perpetuated, even in the face of evidence that they are not appropriate. If, for example, those four black men had stepped out of the car and tried to preach the Gospel to my dad instead, of course he should no longer have feared them (at least not in the same way ;) ). If he did, then that would be perpetuating an inappropriate stereotype, which is bad.

Now, all of that said, if any of you are ever in Tucson, Arizona (where it is miserably hot right now), I'd be happy to beer ya!

95...

Rower_CPU
May 22, 2003, 10:04 AM
Good point, Snowy_River. How do you feel about racial profiling?

mactastic
May 22, 2003, 10:26 AM
Yeah when you say something like "He's from SF, case closed." theres one of two things that can mean, both are stereotypes, and you didn't clarify. Californians tend to forget that the rest of the country thinks we live in some kind of liberal haze out here.

jelloshotsrule
May 22, 2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by mactastic
Yeah when you say something like "He's from SF, case closed." theres one of two things that can mean, both are stereotypes, and you didn't clarify. Californians tend to forget that the rest of the country thinks we live in some kind of liberal haze out here.

hmm...

"they say the ****ing's smog's the ****ing reason you have such beautiful ****ing sunsets"

;)

Foxer
May 22, 2003, 11:41 AM
It's not called the "left coast" for nothin'.

jelloshotsrule
May 22, 2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Foxer
It's not called the "left coast" for nothin'.

i prefer the "wrong coast". ;)

Rower_CPU
May 22, 2003, 12:09 PM
And the midwest isn't called a "craphole" for nothin'. ;)

jadariv
May 22, 2003, 12:24 PM
Oh man Rower, you just want to keep reeling me in.

Oh wait, it is a craphole, that's why i moved to L.A.

Foxer
May 22, 2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
And the midwest isn't called a "craphole" for nothin'. ;)


nice....

vniow
May 22, 2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
Oh wait, it is a craphole, that's why i moved to L.A.

So you moved from one craphole to another craphole?

jadariv
May 22, 2003, 01:33 PM
Yeah, i know. I should have moved to San Francisco. I'm a liberal you know.

mactastic
May 22, 2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
And the midwest isn't called a "craphole" for nothin'. ;)

Hahaha that almost made me spill my drink in my pants! i came very close to lookin like i peed in them! Thanks for the belly laugh of the day.

jadariv
May 22, 2003, 01:41 PM
Hey Vniow. Noticed the Yeah Yeah Yeah's reference by your avatar. Never heard of this group until this week, just received their new CD yesterday and it's pretty good. I'm working on the commercial for the album. Crazy video for the Date with the Night song.

Rower_CPU
May 22, 2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by mactastic
Hahaha that almost made me spill my drink in my pants! i came very close to lookin like i peed in them! Thanks for the belly laugh of the day.

You're quite welcome.

vniow
May 22, 2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by jadariv
I'm working on the commercial for the album. Crazy video for the Date with the Night song.

Woah, nice!

I haven't seen the video yet since I don't watch too much TV, I don't have enough bandwith to stream it online and it hasn't appeared on any P2Ps yet...http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=252654

wdlove
May 22, 2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by vniow
Woah, nice!

I haven't seen the video yet since I don't watch too much TV, I don't have enough bandwith to stream it online and it hasn't appeared on any P2Ps yet...http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=252654

We should take up a collection on the Forum and use the funds to purchase broadband for vinow. ;) I think that it's a top priority! :p

jayscheuerle
May 22, 2003, 02:56 PM
Stereotyping in itself is neither bad nor good. It's simply a generalization based on observations or ignorance. Sometimes they're spot on, sometimes way off, but they never apply to everybody within the group.

You can have stereotypical associations based on dress, body language or expression, but they're much harder to pin down. What we refer to as "intuition" or a "sixth sense" is often just a matter of being able to read people, which starts from a stereotypical launching point.

Being keenly aware of stereotypes (and the pitfalls that relying on them can produce) can save your skin or your wallet (think "used car salesman" stereotype), but there are many situations out there where taking the time to dig past the stereotype, to learn about the individual, is not only the legal, but also the respectful thing to do. Stereotypes are often a loosely reliable starting point, but never the end all definition of a person, and often not right at all. They are not bad in their own right, but can be used in a bad way.

Racial profiling is a complex issue, mostly because it's often a sucessful tool for law enforcement. The biggest problem occurs when it isn't used judiciously and in most of the larger cities where it would be abused, tensions and stakes are often high. It's not fair to those falsely targeted, but to ban it is to ban an effective tool. Racial profiling was a hot-button issue with the Black communities in Philadelphia and New Jersey, but those voices were disturbingly quiet in the wake of 9-11, the key being that it's a good tool when it works for you, not against you.

- j

(38yo, white, married 8.5 yrs, 1 child (girl, 6 yo), graphic artist, German heritage, middle-income, balding, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, fit, city dweller, 2 cocker spaniels, 1 cat, Apple user since '82)

-judge away! :cool:

tazo
May 22, 2003, 03:09 PM
left coast whoa whoa :p I am just glad to live in the Pacific Northwest :)

on the issue of racial profiling, I think pulling over a black guy in a mercedes just because its a black guy in a mercedes is wrong. My main problem is that people blame racial profdilinh for everything nowadays. Oh well I wasnt speeding, its just racial profiling. I didnt run that red light, its just racial profiling. I think when people use a legitimate justice tool to their own personal benefit, the system has broken down and no longer serves its intended purpose.

-tazo

Snowy_River
May 22, 2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
...
Being keenly aware of stereotypes (and the pitfalls that relying on them can produce) can save your skin or your wallet (think "used car salesman" stereotype), but there are many situations out there where taking the time to dig past the stereotype, to learn about the individual, is not only the legal, but also the respectful thing to do. Stereotypes are often a loosely reliable starting point, but never the end all definition of a person, and often not right at all. They are not bad in their own right, but can be used in a bad way.

Well said. Indeed, this is what I was trying to say before. Using a stereotype as an end is using a perpetuated stereotype. Using one as a beginning can be very helpful in many situations.

Racial profiling is a complex issue, mostly because it's often a sucessful tool for law enforcement. The biggest problem occurs when it isn't used judiciously and in most of the larger cities where it would be abused, tensions and stakes are often high. It's not fair to those falsely targeted, but to ban it is to ban an effective tool. Racial profiling was a hot-button issue with the Black communities in Philadelphia and New Jersey, but those voices were disturbingly quiet in the wake of 9-11, the key being that it's a good tool when it works for you, not against you.

Again, well put. I completely agree. Racial profiling is a tool, but it is one that can be abused. When used carefully and properly, then it can be a good thing. When abused, it can be a very bad thing.


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