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View Full Version : You've got to be kidding me. (American Idol winner)


beez7777
May 21, 2003, 08:56 PM
This is ridiculous. I can not believe that Ruben won American Idol. Clay was so much better. ruben can't sing for his life. Clay's rendition of Bridge Over Troubled Water should have alone won the competition. I for one am not watching American Idol 3, at least not until i get over this. Ok, ok, i know it's just a tv show, but still. I think that there's a little reverse discrimination going on here. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but honestly, if Ruben was skinny and white, I don't think he would have won. No, I am not at all racist, but give me a break. Yeah, Ruben looks "cute," but the point is to make an album. You can't see his face over the radio. I'm in shock.

GeneR
May 21, 2003, 09:02 PM
I'm so ashamed (no offense, Beez! :D) that I even know what you're talking about. (Unfortunately, my girlfriend watches the show, so I'm in the loop about this.) Darn this talent shows! Darn them!!! :D

scem0
May 21, 2003, 09:06 PM
I agree. But neither Clay nor Ruben should have won. They didn't have star quality. They could sing pretty well, but so could kimberly Caldwell had a great voice, great looks, and star quality. She would actually fit in at hollywood, and on the red carpet. And if not her, then someone like Trenyce. Ughhhhh Ruben shoudln't have won.

vniow
May 21, 2003, 09:14 PM
Why do people actually care?

Not a flame, just curious..

applemacdude
May 21, 2003, 09:30 PM
Maybe it's Fox's strategy to win more viewers for the next seoson and not to lose some viewers. Last time a woman won and she was white. This time it's a mac that's african american...I know this show is fixed along with all the other shows. Maybe not at the start but at the end...Anyhow I don't really care....

tazo
May 21, 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by applemacdude
Maybe it's Fox's strategy to win more viewers for the next seoson and not to lose some viewers. Last time a woman won and she was white. This time it's a mac that's african american...I know this show is fixed along with all the other shows. Maybe not at the start but at the end...Anyhow I don't really care....

I did not make that inference but that is a good point.

In my humble opinion FOX is going too far with these shows, they arte going to have something where people vote to see who lives, dies.

ON THAT RELATED NOTE:

Everyone should read the book "24/7" by Jim Brown. It is an excellent book, a very entertaining one at that, about a network like Fox, that puts people in a survivor like atmosphere. Lots of people, do activities together, compete for a prize, do all of that on some abandoned island in the tropics. the group is then "exposed" to a virus, a life threatening one that requires an antidote. Here is the catch, every morning the people of america must vote for who they like the most on the show, the people who receive the most votes are able to get access to the antidote; those that don't simply disintegrate after the time when they need the antidote. Now imagine what can happen...

This is a very good book that is incredibly entertaining, a great weekend in the comfy chair book. I recommend it to all.

and once again that was Jim Brown's 24/7

-tazo

jelloshotsrule
May 21, 2003, 09:51 PM
i'm happy to see that ruben won

i'll say it again... clay may have had a more broad voice, but he was far too fake... i saw the footage of him from early on, and he looked so much cooler and real. whereas ruben just looks awesome and he's real.

and you can't say that ruben has no talent. that's just a joke

i wouldn't say clay doesn't have talent even though he's gross... heck, i might even say he should've won. but i'm glad he didn't.

Rower_CPU
May 21, 2003, 10:06 PM
You really need to name your threads better. I was going to watch the show and find out (3 hour time difference). :rolleyes:

andrewlandry
May 21, 2003, 11:05 PM
as a musician, i have to go with Ruben. he makes me actually enjoy listening to the crappy arrangements that they have to sing to.

funny that i was going to be bummed if Clay won because he's better looking and not morbidly obese.

it's funny that anyone thinks that Ruben had an image advantage over anyone.

i think he was just on a much higher artistic level than any of the other competitors.

as a side note, i also was bummed when the girl with the crazy red hair got kicked off. she was much better than a lot of the generic people that made it further.

all of this said, the show is a bunch of crap and i am probably not the target audience, seeing as how i'm over the age of 13 and male.

MacFan25
May 22, 2003, 03:56 PM
I think that Clay should have one too. They said that Clay's album and Ruben's album are going to come out at the same time, so it will be interesting to see who's album will sell faster.

Foxer
May 22, 2003, 04:25 PM
I only watched the first few episodes when they show the open audicians. Some of them are very funny. I thought the kid who sang Like A Virgin should have gone all the way.

My problem with the thing, and why I'll never watch once it becomes serious, is that I can't stand the sort of music that they promote. Sure, it is vanilla and otherwise inoffensive, but come on...

I wish they'd vary from the theme and have some actual bands on there (not "Boy Bands," but people playing instruments while they sing). It doesn't even have to be one particular type of music. Bring out some thrash metal, alt-garage, hip-hop, whatever. Just require them to make their own music as well as sing. It might still suck, but it might be alright, too.

Kwyjibo
May 22, 2003, 04:26 PM
election 2000 all over again...
http://www.drudgereport.com/idol1.htm

jethroted
May 22, 2003, 04:29 PM
Clay is Gay, and Ruben is a sandwich. Think about it.


*Disclaimer*
(I have nothing against gay people, or sandwiches. I was just showing how their names represent their character. Jethroted and his subsidiary's take no responsibility for the actions of gay people or sandwiches. All sandwiches, and gay people portaid in this post are fictitious, and any similarity to sandwiches or gay people in real life is coincidental. Jethroted is not gay, or a sandwich. Not that there is anything wrong with that.)

NavyIntel007
May 22, 2003, 05:28 PM
Honestly, who cares?

This is another example of how reality television is NOT reality. In reality neither of these two would be the winner. Lets face it, out of the two, Ruben is more marketable. Hip-Hop/R&B is the new Rock & Roll and Ruben fits right in it. Clay just doesn't have it. Maybe a decade ago he would, but not now. Get over it and watch shows with substance so the networks don't keep regurgitating this crap every season.

beez7777
May 22, 2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Honestly, who cares?

This is another example of how reality television is NOT reality. In reality neither of these two would be the winner. Lets face it, out of the two, Ruben is more marketable. Hip-Hop/R&B is the new Rock & Roll and Ruben fits right in it. Clay just doesn't have it. Maybe a decade ago he would, but not now. Get over it and watch shows with substance so the networks don't keep regurgitating this crap every season.

Normally i hate prime time tv, especially "reality" shows. honestly i think the only things on tv worth watching are south park, the daily show, and the simpsons are good too. Yeah, there are other shows, but most tv is pretty bad. i don't know why i watch american idol, or why i care who wins.

rockman2023
May 22, 2003, 06:25 PM
Normally i hate prime time tv, especially "reality" shows. honestly i think the only things on tv worth watching are south park, the daily show, and the simpsons are good too. Yeah, there are other shows, but most tv is pretty bad. i don't know why i watch american idol, or why i care who wins.

I understand your dislke for "reality" tv, because it's everywhere now. However, about Ruben winning AI, remember that it's the american population who voted for him. If you saw it from start to finish, you'd take into account that each person was strained through diff genres of music, and apparently the people believed that Ruben perfomed the best. If the competition was strictly about image, then neither Clay or Ruben may have made it as far as they did.

sparkleytone
May 22, 2003, 07:07 PM
the drudge report was a good read. i have a feeling that they have been doing funny little phone capping tricks the past few weeks. no one could get through anymore. i think clay should have won...he was winning in all the online polls, he had the most visible support all over the web, and his voice is just better. i love to watch ruben, but clay has got it.

i have been reading and hearing about how they may have been capping calls at a certain rate per minute in order to keep the votes close. then it would only really come down to the last few seconds of the vote. that would be the ONLY way someone could win by a mere 1300 someodd votes, because that margin is absolutely preposterous. think about it:

clay is getting 90000 calls a minute
ruben is getting 75000 calls a minute
both are capped at 50000 votes a minute, which explains why no one can get thru, esp to clay's line.
whoever gets the last couple of calls can win. is it fair?? not in my eyes, since clay was gipped of a margin of 15000 votes per minute.

that is the scenario that has been floating around lately.

applemacdude
May 22, 2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by beez7777
Normally i hate prime time tv, especially "reality" shows. honestly i think the only things on tv worth watching are south park, the daily show, and the simpsons are good too. Yeah, there are other shows, but most tv is pretty bad. i don't know why i watch american idol, or why i care who wins.

woooh...southpark!

Tequila Grandma
May 22, 2003, 10:54 PM
The way that Clay character looked creeped me out so much, yet his tone of voice managed to make him all the creepier. I'm not sure what this means. Perhaps it means that me, being the large fan of creepy things that I am, wanted Clay to win. Or perhaps because Clay's variation of creepiness was more uncomfortable and off-putting rather than wicked and cool (An example of someone with wicked, cool creepiness would be the great Christopher Lee), I desperately hoped that he'd lose and I'd never have to see his stupid face again. Regardless, I only watched about 15 minutes of one episode of this show about four weeks ago, and that's all I've seen of "American Idol". Seeing as there's no chance in Hell I'd buy any album associated with a television talent show, offhand, I'd say I don't at all give a crap.

...or do I?

Arigato,
Brook

jethroted
May 22, 2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by sparkleytone
the drudge report was a good read. i have a feeling that they have been doing funny little phone capping tricks the past few weeks. no one could get through anymore. i think clay should have won...he was winning in all the online polls, he had the most visible support all over the web, and his voice is just better. i love to watch ruben, but clay has got it.

i have been reading and hearing about how they may have been capping calls at a certain rate per minute in order to keep the votes close. then it would only really come down to the last few seconds of the vote. that would be the ONLY way someone could win by a mere 1300 someodd votes, because that margin is absolutely preposterous. think about it:

clay is getting 90000 calls a minute
ruben is getting 75000 calls a minute
both are capped at 50000 votes a minute, which explains why no one can get thru, esp to clay's line.
whoever gets the last couple of calls can win. is it fair?? not in my eyes, since clay was gipped of a margin of 15000 votes per minute.


that is the scenario that has been floating around lately.


This show is stupid enough. I can't believe that they had to take it to the next level by essentially rigging it. Puke city all the way. I fu#*ing hate this show and all other "reality" (yeah, who's reality?) TV shows. Arn, you should ban all topical discussion about them.

uhlawboi80
May 22, 2003, 11:19 PM
my two cents:

clay should have won. they both had talent, but voices for different types of music. i like rueben.

the reason i say clay should have won is this: the full title of the show is "american idol, search for a pop star" Rueben is NOT a pop star. hes too big to dance, no teenage girls are going to "want him," and his voice will not work well for faster beat songs, which are necessary for a "pop star"

rueben would be an ok R&B star, but he is no pop star

Rower_CPU
May 22, 2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by jethroted
This show is stupid enough. I can't believe that they had to take it to the next level by essentially rigging it. Puke city all the way. I fu#*ing hate this show and all other "reality" (yeah, who's reality?) TV shows. Arn, you should ban all topical discussion about them.

While we're at it, let's ban sports and news shows, too. You don't get much more real than that. :rolleyes:

As the saying goes, "if you don't like it, don't post it".

Sun Baked
May 23, 2003, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by vniow
Why do people actually care?

Not a flame, just curious.. It's the only way some people can have a "real" life, by living vicariously through the personalities on television.

Sort of sad that people spend sooo much time worrying about it.

Of course if they didn't, they'd have nothing to talk about. :rolleyes:

Tequila Grandma
May 23, 2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by uhlawboi80
Rueben is NOT a pop star. hes too big to dance, no teenage girls are going to "want him,"
Are you suggesting that teenage girls would want Clay? Barf-o-rama...

Neither Clay or Ruben are attractive in any way shape or form.

Arigato,
brook

Flowbee
May 23, 2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by Foxer
I thought the kid who sang Like A Virgin should have gone all the way.



I was hoping the "Like A Virgin" guy would come back as a celebrity judge. :D

wsteineker
May 23, 2003, 12:36 AM
Ok, a few things. First, I will openly admit my pro-Ruben bias, as I am from Alabama. We tend to take care of our own, so I feel as though I should go ahead and get that out on the table.

As for Clay, I just don't buy it. He's talented, don't get me wrong. It's just that he's talented in all the wrong ways. He was FANTASTIC whenever he was doing showtunes, but the rest of the time he was flat, unimpressive, and chock full of false vibrato. It was truly painful to listen to him force his voice to do such unnatural things. Ruben, while no genius, was more talented.

In terms of appeal, it's a wash here. Ruben's not exactly a sex kitten, but the man has soul. There's no denying that. Clay, while a bit androgynous (i'm being VERY generous with the language here), was a little "cute", but he's not going to be on the cover of YM any time soon. And while I agree that Clay had come much farther than Ruben, I simply don't think that he managed to catch up to Ruben, much less surpass him.

And Beez, regarding Clay's rendition of "Bridge Over Troubled Water"... It was one of the more unimpressive songs I saw him perform all season. It felt forced. Ruben is a natural when it comes to pop performances, while Clay is a natural when it comes to Broadway tunes. If the show were called Broadway Idol, then Clay would have won hands down. Bottom line is Ruben had it where it counted, and he was deserving of his win. Congrats to Ruben (like he reads this board :rolleyes: ), and good luck to Clay as well. I will say that Clay was exceedingly gracious and genuine regarding his congratulations of Ruben, and I was truly impressed by the generosity of the guy even in time of defeat.

Flowbee
May 23, 2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Sun Baked


Sort of sad that people spend sooo much time worrying about it.

Of course if they didn't, they'd have nothing to talk about. :rolleyes:

Coming from someone who has made 1600+ posts to MacRumors, this statement is pretty funny. No?
:confused:

wsteineker
May 23, 2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Flowbee
Coming from someone who has made 1600+ posts to MacRumors, this statement is pretty funny. No?
:confused:
Heh. He's got you there. ;)

Sun Baked
May 23, 2003, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Flowbee
Coming from someone who has made 1600+ posts to MacRumors, this statement is pretty funny. No?
:confused: Have to do something to avoid paying attention to the horde of reality shows on television. :o

But at least I don't go around looking like I gave myself a haircut with the vacuum cleaner. :eek:

:p

jefhatfield
May 23, 2003, 05:17 AM
clay and ruben appeal to different moods in me...at times i felt that clay could be the american idol and at other times ruben seemed like the idol

the most professional performance i saw in season 2 was josh gracin's version of "amazing"...otherwise, it was hit or miss with him...but for a country star, josh has what it takes to make it big

there is no doubt that ruben and clay, like kelly and justin before them, will sell lots of records

it would be interesting to see who lasts over time

with star search, raymond romano, brittney spears, and sawyer brown turned out to be more than flashes in the pan...i have a feeling that the big stars of american idol won't reach the lasting stardom of the big winners of star search

but to be fair, star search airs more acts so by the sheer numbers of people showcased gives the star search better odds at producing a lucrative, lasting star

american idol is perfect for building and marketing short lived stars because the next season seems to take attention away from the previous winner

now if there was no second season of this show, then maybe the fans, and america at large, could grow into kelly, tamyra gray, and justin without the distractions of the stars of season 2 like kimberly, josh, clay, and ruben

chrisfx811
May 23, 2003, 10:52 AM
frenchie davis should have won!
who cares if she posted topless?

i thought neil sedaka was going to ask clay to marry him,
and i think paula abdul is currently the main ingredient in a ruben sandwich as we speak

sparkleytone
May 23, 2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Tequila Grandma
Are you suggesting that teenage girls would want Clay? Barf-o-rama...

Neither Clay or Ruben are attractive in any way shape or form.

Arigato,
brook

actually yeah...girls love and want clay. just read all the fansites and see all the reaction. thats just the way it is it seems. females are able to see who a person is and judge them by that.

speaking as one being trained in classical voice, i think wsteineker is way off base on clay's 'forced' singing. he is natural and free the majority of the time. both him and ruben generally make the vocal part seem easy and appear relatively free of any plaguing vocal issues. one needs only to compare them to ole Carmen and her immense tongue tension issues to see a night and day difference. Also, i take issue with your use of the word flat as Clay is NEVER flat. He is either RIGHT on top of the pitch or slighly sharp. He is NEVER flat. Maybe you meant flat in the sense of energy. But being sharp creates a conflict for that idea too.

Anne
May 23, 2003, 08:07 PM
I think that Ruben's style definitely fits more of what will make it on the popular radio stations, but I think that Clay is a lot more talented. So it's a wash, I guess. I don't listen to top-40 music stations anyway, so I guess I really don't care about who makes it there.

I was very impressed with Ruben at first, but I found that he just always sounded the same all the time. Clay I could listen to forever, though I admit that I'm also a big fan of show tunes. While Clay definitely has his own style (and not a pop style), I felt that he was more capable of range and variation of emotion. I'm sure that Ruben will get the hang of it eventually... and until then I guess he sounds pretty good for the limited scope he has.

I completely agree about the earlier discussion of the flaw in the voting system. It's absurd. Throw the numbers into a t-test and they surely aren't significantly different. And for good reason - the methodology is completely bogus. I wonder why they don't limit it to one call per phone line? Sure, problems for families with several teenagers or young adults. But so many people have cell phones that it probably wouldn't be too terrible. Seeing who can stuff the ballot box fastest is just, well, stupid.

Then again, the notion of who actually wins on a show like this is also kind of absurd. They both get recording contracts and they both already have tons of exposure. I guess Ruben wins by getting stuck doing publicity and appearances as the official "idol" - is that really winning? ;)