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MacRumors
Jan 30, 2007, 10:03 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After years in development, and some delays (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/03/22/microsoft-vista-delayed-until-2007/), Microsoft's Vista launched to consumers today.

CNet (http://news.com.com/Vistas+actual+launch+Think+whisper%2C+not+bang/2100-1016_3-6154473.html) and The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/31/technology/31vista.html?ref=business) report on the launch itself, which was met with only minimal excitement compared to the Windows 95 launch:

But the launch itself was a quiet affair in a midtown CompUSA store (the chain had organized midnight events at several of its stores), where it seemed like there were just as many reporters and camera crews as there were customers hoping to take home a copy of Vista.

Meanwhile, for Intel Mac owners interested in trying the new operating system, Gizmodo reports (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/software/vista-on-intel-mac-with-parallels-not-quite-there-232596.php) only limited graphical support for Microsoft's operating system under Parallels (http://www.parallels.com/), but some forum users (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=275004) have had success installing Vista on Bootcamp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/).



Eidorian
Jan 30, 2007, 10:05 PM
Well it's finally here. I don't have to support it at work yet! :D

I've played with Vista RC 2 and the test drive. Aero is very demanding for what it does. I had to many application issues to. Looks like I'm sticking with XP to game.

andyadler
Jan 30, 2007, 10:07 PM
How much hard disk space will a typical Vista install require? I have a 120gb MBP, and I need to run at least one Windows program (Dragon Naturally Speaking) on it. Installing XP may end up to be a better choice, though.

JurgenWigg
Jan 30, 2007, 10:10 PM
so how much cheaper is XP now?

justflie
Jan 30, 2007, 10:12 PM
Finally Vista is released and it's met with a big "meh." :) long live :apple:

Spanky Deluxe
Jan 30, 2007, 10:13 PM
Meh. I used to be quite interested in this before I switched 100%. I run Windows under Boot Camp with the idea that it be for the odd application but all I seem to use it for is the odd game and from what I can tell right now, Windows XP outperforms Vista on the games front so I guess I'll stick to XP.

I have to say, I am stinking of Apple smugness(tm) right now like you wouldn't believe (strokes his Tiger).

Littleodie914
Jan 30, 2007, 10:13 PM
How much hard disk space will a typical Vista install require? I have a 120gb MBP, and I need to run at least one Windows program (Dragon Naturally Speaking) on it. Installing XP may end up to be a better choice, though.I installed the RC2 of Vista Ultimate, and it took a little over 8 gigs for the standard install.

rockman2023
Jan 30, 2007, 10:16 PM
so how much cheaper is XP now?

Don't get your hopes up too soon. I just looked on Amazon.com, and a full version of XP HOME with SP2 is $189.99.

Grakkle
Jan 30, 2007, 10:17 PM
Bah. Everyone knows that MS just copied OS X, and when Leopard comes out we'll leave them in the dust again.

Actually MS is already in the dust - I still can't believe how crude XP is when I've used it since switching. Haven't used Vista yet, but it'll be interesting to see how it is.

mrkramer
Jan 30, 2007, 10:19 PM
Don't get your hopes up too soon. I just looked on Amazon.com, and a full version of XP HOME with SP2 is $189.99.

It will probably take a few weeks for the prices to come down, but it will happen soon.

scottlinux
Jan 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
so how much cheaper is XP now?

Heh. Who needs XP? I'm all for Windows 2000. No activation and 'genuine advantage' aka genuine PITA.

SMM
Jan 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
How many Vista threads doe a Mac site need? As many as MS will pay for.

Grakkle
Jan 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
It will probably take a few weeks for the prices to come down, but it will happen soon.

Of course it will. A lot of people might wait a few months to buy Vista, to wait out the bugs, but after that XP will be dead. It'll probably be available for half what it's selling for now.

That's what happened with 2000 and Millennium when XP came out.

Croatian
Jan 30, 2007, 10:24 PM
Microsoft Vista ... hahaha .... half the stuff on it is a copy from Mac OS X .... the widgets, the spotlight, and many more :D

also, i have parallels running on my MB ... since i need to use AutoCAD for my work .. i run XP .. i don't see why would anyone want to run Vista on there computer ..

from what i hear that they are coming out with the first Vista upgrade by end of the year ... i mean .. from my experiance .. if i was 2 buy a cell phone and 4 months later i needed to take it in to get a better antenna i would want my money back

and why not just stick to XP if u really need Windows .. it seems to be more stable the Vista and more stuff works with it.

ReanimationLP
Jan 30, 2007, 10:29 PM
Hmm, Vista was huge at our store today.

I guess its because we were giving away 512MB of RAM, Live Onecare, and Taxcut to anyone who bought the Home Premium, Business or Ultimate versions.

Its a pretty nice OS, but is rather demanding on hardware.

Dont expect XP to drop at all, in fact, Microsoft is actually having retailers send back their copies of XP. XP shows up in our computer inventory systems as discontinued. So, I guess its not going to be like when XP originally came out, when they were still pumping out copies of Windows 98 SE for years.

furcalchick
Jan 30, 2007, 10:37 PM
Dont expect XP to drop at all, in fact, Microsoft is actually having retailers send back their copies of XP. XP shows up in our computer inventory systems as discontinued. So, I guess its not going to be like when XP originally came out, when they were still pumping out copies of Windows 98 SE for years.

that's one of the major reasons i bought a macbook at all. i was not going to vista because i didn't like it at all, and wanted to run xp for years to come. looks like ms is trying to kill off xp as soon as possible in order to get everyone to buy the garbage that is vista. that's when i said i was through with ms.

SiliconAddict
Jan 30, 2007, 10:41 PM
The CD case has been staring at me on the corner of my desk for about a week now. I finally gave in and loaded it up in BootCamp. I'm still exploring all the various feature but so far I'm somewhat impressed. MS got rid of about about 70% of the annoying crap that really turned me off in Beta 2. The other 30%? well about 20% of that I've been able to either turn off or find a tweak online. Suspend and Hibernate still doesn't work right on the MBP but that is purely in Apple's corner at this point. I really hope the final version of BootCamp comes with Vista drivers but I'm not going to hold my breath.

for anyone who wants to try out vista: http://www.windowsvistatestdrive.com/

Its got to be in IE though. But I understand why. MS lets you play around with virtual sessions on a server up in the sky somewhere. Enter an e-mail address (can be fake.) Click on one of the propa....I mean feature buttons. Then click on the test drive button. It will start up what I'm assuming is a Virtual Server session. You can jack up the resolution of you want more then the standard 800 x 600 window. Kinda slick.

PS- I do Dell warrantee work and over the last week I've had a ton of people ask me about Vista. I can barely hold in a laugh when they ask if their system with 256MB of RAM can run it. Oh the CPU is fine. The GPU with 64MB of VRAM is OK. But 256MB? Vista would fling the CD out of the optical drive so hard that it would embed itself in the wall on the opposite side of most rooms.
Basically I tell them wait a year. Which is the outright truth. Vista is Microsoft's OS 10.0. Its rough around the edges. (To be fair less so then what 10.0 was at the time.) But it has the right framework in place.

twoodcc
Jan 30, 2007, 10:45 PM
well it's finally here. i guess we'll see how good it does....can't wait for Leopard :):apple:

MacNtoss
Jan 30, 2007, 10:47 PM
I have Vista and it sucks guts...MAC OS X RULES (sorry for letting my inner fanboy out) I just had to say that, I want the whole world to know it!:D

iW00t
Jan 30, 2007, 10:48 PM
Vista is released....


... and no one cares :rolleyes:

phillipjfry
Jan 30, 2007, 10:48 PM
Well it's finally here. I don't have to support it at work yet! :D


Me either *electronic high-five!* :)
....although I dread the day

I think that M$ might have actually built up too much excitement in Vista and since people are getting tired of windows anyways, oh hell I lost my train of thought lol
Either way, low Vista sales....saw it coming. :D

pascalpp
Jan 30, 2007, 10:51 PM
But the launch itself was a quiet affair in a midtown CompUSA store (the chain had organized midnight events at several of its stores), where it seemed like there were just as many reporters and camera crews as there were customers hoping to take home a copy of Vista.

Meanwhile over a hundred thousand people march on Washington to protest the escalation, and the media barely says a word.

"OOO VISTA! I'm all wet." --American Mainstream Media

Object-X
Jan 30, 2007, 11:39 PM
Uh, did something important happen?

Peligro
Jan 30, 2007, 11:50 PM
I think things are really going to go a different direction with this release. People will finally start to see what all mac addicts talk about.

TheBobcat
Jan 30, 2007, 11:53 PM
I don't know guys, Microsoft Windows (tm) Vista is a more secure operating system for the digital age. Not only can you know edit photo's in an operating system, Windows (tm) Vista also now includes the Windows (tm) Sidebar that has great little mini-applications that can not only get you news and weather, but also sports scores. Also, with Vista's brand new Aero interface, everything seems to be made of glass, that you want lick everything and put your face up against it. You can also see more 3D effects and visuals like never before possible in an operating system (only in Home Premium or better). These fantastic features are only found in the most secure and advanced operating system to date, Microsoft Windows (tm) Vista.

*Bobcat sends link of post to Monkey Man, receives check for $1500, cashes check, buys BlackBook. Feels guilty, sits in shower for 3 hours crying, calls Ballmer to give him his money back, Ballmer doesn't take it, I throw the money at him, I hang myself. :(

supremedesigner
Jan 30, 2007, 11:58 PM
How much hard disk space will a typical Vista install require? I have a 120gb MBP, and I need to run at least one Windows program (Dragon Naturally Speaking) on it. Installing XP may end up to be a better choice, though.

That program sounds familiar. Is that used for I-communicator (for deaf people)?

PCMacUser
Jan 31, 2007, 12:11 AM
Hmm, I'm not sure how many people are going to go for Vista at this stage, given its high street price and steep hardware requirements.

And to hear from sites such as Tom's Hardware that it bites for games (due to poor drivers - which I'm sure will be resolved soon), it hardly leaves me wanting to install it straight away.

However, I do enjoy new products of any kind (hell, I got excited when the orange iPod shuffle came out) so I will be keen to take a look at it at some stage. But it won't make me go out and buy a new PC just to do so...

73CortinaV8
Jan 31, 2007, 12:24 AM
I scored a free copy of Vista bidness via a promotion. I installed it on a work laptop this past weekend.

After reading reviews, I was expecting a bloated, ho-hum POS XP successor. After playing with it, I was pleasantly surprised. Nice eye candy. The 3d window switcher is nice. Doesn't seem to soak up any more resources than XP, which, while not great, isn't close to the gloomy reviews. Fewer processes run than are typical on XP, though I don't know if it an illusion. I know all the DRM crap is pretty scary, but just from a look and feel point of view and performance point of view, Vista is impressive. I am surprised.

Now... I can't wait to get my hands on Leopard when it comes out. :)

McLar3n
Jan 31, 2007, 12:35 AM
I like how the post says that the Vista launch was "quite an affair" at the local CompUSA. Working at one myself that was open at midnight, people sure lined up...for the free bluetooth headsets.

Mr. Amiga500
Jan 31, 2007, 12:36 AM
I've read a report from one Vista user explaining that on their "AMD Athlon 64 X2, 2gb of dual channel RAM, SATA HD, and an ATI 9200SE", they got an error message saying that their graphics card is not powerful enough to run solitare.

Excuse me for wanting to vomit, but an ATI RADEON 9200 not powerful enough to run frigging Windows SOLITAIRE??? I can run a kick-ass animated solitaire on my 1987 Amiga 500! What the hell is this world coming to?

mac-hummer
Jan 31, 2007, 12:38 AM
About the price...

Our Steve Jobs claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost, at $129 for each version, that's about $774 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001. That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.)
He also counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Stevo claimed).

So $774 OSX vs. $400 Vista

Now it makes me think, have i spent my money well? :mad:

let's open our mind

cazlar
Jan 31, 2007, 12:57 AM
So $750 OSX vs. $400 Vista


Not sure of your maths there. 10.1 was free, so if you had bought every single possible upgrade (10.0, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 and soon 10.5) that would be $645. And instead you would have had to buy XP Pro ($299) and Vista ($399 ultimate/$240 home premium).

So maximum $645 vs $698/$539.

P.S. You may be able to get vista for less as an upgrade version, but it kinda sucks that if you do you can't install unless over an old Windows installation, plus you are not meant to reuse your old XP licence afterwards.

FadeToBlack
Jan 31, 2007, 01:19 AM
About the price...

Our Steve Jobs claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost, at $129 for each version, that's about $750 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001.
That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.) But he counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Stevo claimed).

So $750 OSX vs. $400 Vista

Now it makes me think, have i spent my money well? :mad:

let's open our mind

Eh. Most of the versions of OS X were huge improvements, IMO. I haven't used all of them, but judging by the ones I did use (10.1, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger) each release was a huge improvement to it's predecessor. They all brought some awesome new features and in most cases, a huge speed boost. I know when I upgraded my old eMac from Panther to Tiger, it was a pretty big improvement in speed, not to mention all the new features.

About Vista, though, I think it's ridiculous how many versions they have of it. I mean, c'mon, there's like what, 4 versions? That's just confusing to the consumer and pretty pointless, IMO. I also don't get why they have the upgrade only versions? Why not just make one FULL version? It just doesn't make sense to me and I'm sure it doesn't make sense to people that aren't as in to technology as me. All it does is confuse people.

apfhex
Jan 31, 2007, 01:28 AM
So maximum $645 vs $698/$539.

P.S. You may be able to get vista for less as an upgrade version, but it kinda sucks that if you do you can't install unless over an old Windows installation, plus you are not meant to reuse your old XP licence afterwards.
I agree. Retail OS X copies aren't upgrades, so it's only fair to count the full priced versions of Windows.

waltchan
Jan 31, 2007, 01:32 AM
Windows Vista really sucks and is very buggy. Buy it at your own risk. I hear the Vista Ultimate version is the worst. After only fifteen minutes out from the box in my new Gateway GM5242 (highest-end) desktop computer, the whole system crashes and has since refused to boot up or work correctly. Restoring it back to factory settings is not possible as there are numerous, no-reason system errors popping up on the screen all the time that prevent any recovery to begin, and Gateway and Microsoft customer reps still have no idea how to fix the problem. So, right now, six hours later, I am still on the phone with them. And Gateway customer reps don't really feel like helping. All they do is read the stupid script typed by Gateway with no knowledge in computers at all. Basically, I have a $2,000 expensive paperweight (with a 24" Gateway widescreen LCD monitor together) sitting on my desk still in inoperable order (which means, I can use my MacBook more), and I don't know how long it will take for me to learn Vista. And, I can't return it back to the store. :mad: There is nothing wrong with the hardware in the computer, but only the Microsoft Vista Ultimate software that prevents the system to work correctly. I could format the whole hard drive and put Windows XP in, but what's the point for the price I originally paid. And don't say why I bought a Gateway (yeah, I know Gateway's reliability is the worst by Consumer Reports). I bought Gateway because Gateway is the only maker out there to offer new styling in PCs at the Windows Vista launch date. All the other brands (HP, Compaq, Acer, and Sony) are still using the same style for two years now (shame), and two year old design is already considered to be old or obsolete to many people.

Good thing Apple computers are never like this. They have always been dependable on me.

Appler
Jan 31, 2007, 01:39 AM
Although the Mac OS easily trumps the MS OS (any of them) anytime, some of us dual boot gamers will be forced to upgrade to vista. Maybe not yet, but when games using direct X 10 are released. I still don't know why, as the Mac community grows ever so rapidly, game developers still don't take them into consideration for (1) same-date releases , (2) or sometimes even releases period.


Macbook Pro 15.4 inch Core Duo 2.16 Ghz , 100 GB 7200 rpm , 2 GB Ram
80 GB Video Ipod

Porco
Jan 31, 2007, 02:58 AM
I don't have to use Windows very much, so I'm fairly indifferent to Vista's launch, but I voted it positive anyway. Here's why (all 'hopefully's);

-Better security, Firewall on by default etc = less 'pwnd' machines sending out spam. The internet is, on many levels at least, increasingly platform agnostic and good security on all OSs is good for everyone (except the criminals and annoysters (I know that's not a word, but it should be)).

-Some people want to or have to use Windows. Good luck to them if Vista makes that nicer.

-More competition for Apple means a better OS X.

-Amongst the MS hype machine, many reports are comparing it to Tiger and mentioning that OS X has had many of Vista's features for ages already.

-It's out, and everyone knows its feature set. Now Apple can start talking about Leopard more.

pilotzen
Jan 31, 2007, 03:14 AM
Off topic a little.. do you think Bill is going to release all his major software on Tuesday's now? ;)

RealMcCoy
Jan 31, 2007, 03:53 AM
I watched the "keynote" of Bill Gates on the Vista Launch ... boy oh boy ... that was a hilarious piece of entertainment. I hope they have that on you tube somewhere ...

Those guys need to work on their presentation skills for sure !!!

iW00t
Jan 31, 2007, 03:54 AM
Did you guys notice all those Vistas ads on TV since tuesday?

iMikeT
Jan 31, 2007, 04:01 AM
After years of delay, I can't believe that Long... uh Vista finally shipped.

I don't know if anyone can call it new or even revolutionary since those of us who have been using Mac OS X have had all the new features that Vista claims to have for the past six years now.

I love my :apple: !

iMikeT
Jan 31, 2007, 04:03 AM
About the price...

Our Steve Jobs claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost, at $129 for each version, that's about $774 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001. That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.)
He also counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Stevo claimed).

So $774 OSX vs. $400 Vista

Now it makes me think, have i spent my money well? :mad:

let's open our mind


You forgot to factor in the new hardware that people will have to buy just to satisfy Vista's bloated demands.

mrthieme
Jan 31, 2007, 04:26 AM
About the price...

Our Steve Jobs claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost, at $129 for each version, that's about $774 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001. That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.)
He also counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Stevo claimed).

So $774 OSX vs. $400 Vista

Now it makes me think, have i spent my money well? :mad:

let's open our mind
You forgot to include anti virus software in your estimate of Windows.

a456
Jan 31, 2007, 04:42 AM
Vista is released....


... and no one cares :rolleyes:

Not quite true - those waiting for the long-awaited demise of MS care, because they are eager to see if this will create a sea change in the whole PC market whereby we can return to the more progressive and creative era that was quashed so many years ago and is now in its revival. Dust off your Atari ST and your Amiga 1200 the good times are here again.

a456
Jan 31, 2007, 04:49 AM
About the price...

Our Steve Jobs claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost, at $129 for each version, that's about $774 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001. That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.)
He also counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Stevo claimed).

So $774 OSX vs. $400 Vista

Now it makes me think, have i spent my money well? :mad:

let's open our mind

You are in the minority if you updated every time. You also forget that a five year old Apple machine will run the latest OS, whereas you will have to upgrade (or more likely replace) your machine to run Vista. And you forget that for the price, Mac users have enjoyed features such as instant file searching for years, and have reaped the benefits for years - it has certainly saved me a lot of time, money and energy to have Spotlight find files and emails - not to mention all the other areas where OS X has saved me time.

Dunepilot
Jan 31, 2007, 05:19 AM
Not quite true - those waiting for the long-awaited demise of MS care, because they are eager to see if this will create a sea change in the whole PC market whereby we can return to the more progressive and creative era that was quashed so many years ago and is now in its revival. Dust off your Atari ST and your Amiga 1200 the good times are here again.

People aren't that intelligent though, are they. People have been lapping up the inferior Windows product since Windows 95. Why would they stop now?

Most consumers will do what they always do - buy a new PC every 3 years in order to run the latest version of Windows so that they can stay 'up-to-date'.

Also, I haven't used Vista yet, but their implementation of that feature that kind-of copies Expose is ridiculously crude.

iShak
Jan 31, 2007, 05:52 AM
reality check:

BBC uk poll for yesterday in the technology news section.

does the WOW starts now for you?

yes?
no?


^ .. 19% say yes ... 81% say no

redmond stockup on angina pills.

cheunghy
Jan 31, 2007, 06:15 AM
I just watched the 'keynote'...

The song 'What a Wonderful World' at the very beginning reminds me about the PowerBook introdction video. (Honestly, the singer does not sing well at all...)

BTW, a little bit off-topic, why did Apple stop making those great introduction videos after launching the PowerMac G5? :(

direzz
Jan 31, 2007, 07:04 AM
Bah. Everyone knows that MS just copied OS X, and when Leopard comes out we'll leave them in the dust again.

Actually MS is already in the dust - I still can't believe how crude XP is when I've used it since switching. Haven't used Vista yet, but it'll be interesting to see how it is.

still, i love os x, but there are some unique features in vista as well.

fixyourthinking
Jan 31, 2007, 07:08 AM
According to my local CompUSA they had one sale of Vista at the midnight launch and 4 customers total. They still have their initial stock of Zunes and have not placed a new order since November 2006.

sers
Jan 31, 2007, 07:10 AM
I've owned my iMac (PPC) for just over a year........

All I can say is "Why didn't I buy one sooner!!"....

I have no desire, nay, no intentions of switching back to a Windows machine.

Who cares about Vista. My IT guy at work said they won't be upgrading the systems to Vista.....too risky!!! They've just been able to stabilize the network on XP, so going to Vista would be too costly, time consuming and, like I said, risky.

But, I'm sure they'll sell a ton of them because they're on 95% of the machines out there. However, I wonder if more people will start switching to Linux due to all the bad publicity Vista's receiving?

fixyourthinking
Jan 31, 2007, 07:11 AM
You forgot to include anti virus software in your estimate of Windows.

And virus removal (by a PC fixit shop) or lost productivity due to viruses slowing down a Windows computer.

hollerz
Jan 31, 2007, 07:12 AM
still, i love os x, but there are some unique features in vista as well.


yeah, as much as i love os x, i'm looking forward to seeing what vista is like

Aardy
Jan 31, 2007, 07:12 AM
I have a couple of classic quotes from someone that works at Microsoft. I obviously can't name them, but we had a little discussion at lunch time about Vista and I mentioned that I was a Mac user.

He obviously extolled the virtues of Vista and then said the following:

"Vista's much better than Safari"
erm ... Safari is a browser I said
"aah, yes" was the reply.

hmmm

Then we got:

"Of course you know that Microsoft own 45% of Apple" he said, "that's why OS X is so good"

at that point I grinned and went back to work :-)

mkjj
Jan 31, 2007, 07:18 AM
Watched the review re Vista launch on News at Ten last night and half way through the VT talking to Uncle Bill it froze!

I was begging the anchor to say something witty about using Windows

KindredMAC
Jan 31, 2007, 07:48 AM
*cricket cricket*

*cricket cricket*

*cricket cricket*

Did somebody hear something?

SiliconAddict
Jan 31, 2007, 08:20 AM
Windows Vista really sucks and is very buggy. Buy it at your own risk. I hear the Vista Ultimate version is the worst. After only fifteen minutes out from the box in my new Gateway GM5242 (highest-end) desktop computer, the whole system crashes and has since refused to boot up or work correctly. Restoring it back to factory settings is not possible as there are numerous, no-reason system errors popping up on the screen all the time that prevent any recovery to begin, and Gateway and Microsoft customer reps still have no idea how to fix the problem. So, right now, six hours later, I am still on the phone with them. And Gateway customer reps don't really feel like helping. All they do is read the stupid script typed by Gateway with no knowledge in computers at all. Basically, I have a $2,000 expensive paperweight (with a 24" Gateway widescreen LCD monitor together) sitting on my desk still in inoperable order (which means, I can use my MacBook more), and I don't know how long it will take for me to learn Vista. And, I can't return it back to the store. :mad: There is nothing wrong with the hardware in the computer, but only the Microsoft Vista Ultimate software that prevents the system to work correctly. I could format the whole hard drive and put Windows XP in, but what's the point for the price I originally paid. And don't say why I bought a Gateway (yeah, I know Gateway's reliability is the worst by Consumer Reports). I bought Gateway because Gateway is the only maker out there to offer new styling in PCs at the Windows Vista launch date. All the other brands (HP, Compaq, Acer, and Sony) are still using the same style for two years now (shame), and two year old design is already considered to be old or obsolete to many people.

Good thing Apple computers are never like this. They have always been dependable on me.

Maybe for you. I locked up once a week on my first MBP. Now its about once a month on this C2DMBP. I use my older thinkpad as my work laptop because I need to know the system won't crash. I can count on one hand the number of times XP and 2K have frozen/locked up/BSODed on me and 4 of those times were due to me dinking around with drivers. Again Vista is Microsoft's 10.0. OS X was NOT pretty when it launched, and was pretty much a joke to many. Vista is a hell of a lot more polished then OS X was at the time. I fully expect in a years time most of Vista's bugs will be shaken out. Just like most of OS X's have been over the last 7 years.

SiliconAddict
Jan 31, 2007, 08:22 AM
And virus removal (by a PC fixit shop) or lost productivity due to viruses slowing down a Windows computer.

This is were Windows new security rights come into play. I'm going to be interested in how effective or not they are in preventing viruses and worms.

guzhogi
Jan 31, 2007, 08:30 AM
I played around with Vista Ultimate RC2 and I like the interface a bit. I like the transclucence of the windows. I think I'll get it just so I can play games that aren't out on Mac yet. The only thing is I don't know where to get the Vista drivers for my C2D MacBook Pro.

eric_n_dfw
Jan 31, 2007, 08:40 AM
Maybe for you. I locked up once a week on my first MBP. Now its about once a month on this C2DMBP. I use my older thinkpad as my work laptop because I need to know the system won't crash. I can count on one hand the number of times XP and 2K have frozen/locked up/BSODed on me and 4 of those times were due to me dinking around with drivers. Again Vista is Microsoft's 10.0. OS X was NOT pretty when it launched, and was pretty much a joke to many. Vista is a hell of a lot more polished then OS X was at the time. I fully expect in a years time most of Vista's bugs will be shaken out. Just like most of OS X's have been over the last 7 years.

I too just got a C2DMBP and have noticed that OS X is a little less stable than on my PPC Mac's. Not as bad as your experience though, only a few crashes in the 2 weeks I've owned it.

As for the equating Vista to being MS's "10.0", I'd beg to differ. Vista may be fine and dandy, but it's still based on the NT/2K/XP kernel where as the OS X kernel shared nothing with the classic Mac OS one.

I do agree with you though, that Vista is much more polished than OS X 10.0 was.

eric_n_dfw
Jan 31, 2007, 08:54 AM
I was playing with the www.windowsvistatestdrive.com site and opened a Word document thy had sitting on the desktop in MS Work 2007. I actually think I will like the new "ribbon" controls when they put them in the Mac version. After a minute or so, the online demo "lab" machine popped up a request to activate MS Office 2007! LOL!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/375534020_edd5bd722d_o.png

lukeisme09
Jan 31, 2007, 09:00 AM
How much hard disk space will a typical Vista install require? I have a 120gb MBP, and I need to run at least one Windows program (Dragon Naturally Speaking) on it. Installing XP may end up to be a better choice, though.

man if you dont have a least 2 gigs of ram you wont even be able to watch a dvd!;) dont even bother with it

Hertog
Jan 31, 2007, 09:00 AM
http://www.foksuk.nl/imggif.php?i=/upload/d1380.gif
Translation:

Fokke and Sukke do not want Windows Vista at all.

F: We want an i-phone!
S: Like you can call anyone with Windows Vista?!!

And whether you think it is funny or not, I thought it was really telling something that a rather popular, normally non-tech cartoon in a regular newspaper made a comparison like this. To me, it is proof that Apple is really rising compared to Microsoft. I'm curious to see how Leopard will be received in the general news.

eric_n_dfw
Jan 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
http://www.foksuk.nl/imggif.php?i=/upload/d1380.gif
Translation:

Fokke and Sukke do not want Windows Vista at all.

F: We want an i-phone!
S: Like you can call anyone with Windows Vista?!!

And whether you think it is funny or not, I thought it was really telling something that a rather popular, normally non-tech cartoon in a regular newspaper made a comparison like this. To me, it is proof that Apple is really rising compared to Microsoft. I'm curious to see how Leopard will be received in the general news.
Do the Dutch not wear pants? :eek:

hug
Jan 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
As many of you know there are different versions of Vista. From what I've learned I wouldn't upgrade to Vista if you are planning on using Vista. Instead you will want a new machine that is capable of running it.

For example, if you purchase the ultimate edition for an upgrade and your PC isn't capable of running all the ultimate feature, Vista will downgrade itself to run only those features your PC can run. Some people purchased Vista for an upgrade but after loading it on their PC have the basic home edition, which is like having XP with a little more security and the spotlight feature. If you call Microsoft and complain they tell you your machine is running the ultimate, which is true but not all the ultimate features work.

So your stuck having spent a lot of money on the ultimate edition but are only able to run home edition features. These different editions Microsoft schemed up is a bunch of hog wash. Why not just come out with one version and include everything. Another reason I switched to Apple and I'm not looking back.

Hertog
Jan 31, 2007, 09:22 AM
Do the Dutch not wear pants? :eek:


They are supposed to be a chicken and a duck, I thought, and as we all know from Donald Duck those animals do not wear pants. Except when they go swimming. Of course. ;)

shigzeo
Jan 31, 2007, 09:23 AM
The CD case has been staring at me on the corner of my desk for about a week now. I finally gave in and loaded it up in BootCamp. I'm still exploring all the various feature but so far I'm somewhat impressed. MS got rid of about about 70% of the annoying crap that really turned me off in Beta 2. The other 30%? well about 20% of that I've been able to either turn off or find a tweak online. Suspend and Hibernate still doesn't work right on the MBP but that is purely in Apple's corner at this point. I really hope the final version of BootCamp comes with Vista drivers but I'm not going to hold my breath.

for anyone who wants to try out vista: http://www.windowsvistatestdrive.com/

Its got to be in IE though. But I understand why. MS lets you play around with virtual sessions on a server up in the sky somewhere. Enter an e-mail address (can be fake.) Click on one of the propa....I mean feature buttons. Then click on the test drive button. It will start up what I'm assuming is a Virtual Server session. You can jack up the resolution of you want more then the standard 800 x 600 window. Kinda slick.

PS- I do Dell warrantee work and over the last week I've had a ton of people ask me about Vista. I can barely hold in a laugh when they ask if their system with 256MB of RAM can run it. Oh the CPU is fine. The GPU with 64MB of VRAM is OK. But 256MB? Vista would fling the CD out of the optical drive so hard that it would embed itself in the wall on the opposite side of most rooms.
Basically I tell them wait a year. Which is the outright truth. Vista is Microsoft's OS 10.0. Its rough around the edges. (To be fair less so then what 10.0 was at the time.) But it has the right framework in place.

i have to say that despite the negative comments here, i am quite impressed with vista's look for this online trial version. it does however feel a bit more like a more menu-driven osx tiger though... for that i am not upset, the os world is full of plagiarism. we all remember that steve chose widgets as the name for what came before as widgets even though it was a confabulator (if i remember correctly) scheme.

osx is as guilty of many of the copy-cat evils as vista is - both of the open source world. it is funny however though that instead of their rubbish jpeg of sky or field, they have chosen those 'abstract' esque images for their desktops and finally visually admitting that osx is the better. still, i cannot say overall that i find vista better than xp. i liked to be able to go to classic mode and have a minimalist windows which is clean lines and classic.

luna is ugly, but so too is the new ie, no style amalgamising at all... shame it is too. cheers

73CortinaV8
Jan 31, 2007, 09:25 AM
I've read a report from one Vista user explaining that on their "AMD Athlon 64 X2, 2gb of dual channel RAM, SATA HD, and an ATI 9200SE", they got an error message saying that their graphics card is not powerful enough to run solitare.

Excuse me for wanting to vomit, but an ATI RADEON 9200 not powerful enough to run frigging Windows SOLITAIRE??? I can run a kick-ass animated solitaire on my 1987 Amiga 500! What the hell is this world coming to?

I find this hard to believe. In fact, I call total BS. I put vista business on a not-so-current thinkpad and all features including aero are working as far as I can tell. And yes, solitaire works.

73CortinaV8
Jan 31, 2007, 09:28 AM
I watched the "keynote" of Bill Gates on the Vista Launch ... boy oh boy ... that was a hilarious piece of entertainment. I hope they have that on you tube somewhere ...

Those guys need to work on their presentation skills for sure !!!

yeah - when ever I see him talk I cringe.

fustercluck
Jan 31, 2007, 09:31 AM
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#functionality

This part made me howl:

"Vista includes various requirements for “robustness” in which the content industry, through “hardware robustness rules”, dictates design requirements to hardware manufacturers. The level of control the content producers have over technical design details is nothing short of amazing. As security researcher Ed Felten quoted from Microsoft documents on his freedom-to-tinker web site about a year ago:

“The evidence [of security] must be presented to Hollywood and other content owners, and they must agree that it provides the required level of security. Written proof from at least three of the major Hollywood studios is required”.

So if you design a new security system, you can't get it supported in Windows Vista until well-known computer security experts like MGM, 20th Century-Fox, and Disney give you the go-ahead (this gives a whole new meaning to the term “Mickey-Mouse security”). It's absolutely astonishing to find paragraphs like this in what are supposed to be Windows technical documents, since it gives Hollywood studios veto rights over Windows security mechanisms."

hug
Jan 31, 2007, 09:38 AM
Here's a nice new feature of Vista. Hasn't Mac had this feature for over a year and it works?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkeC7HpsHxo

ready2switch
Jan 31, 2007, 09:48 AM
Of course it will. A lot of people might wait a few months to buy Vista, to wait out the bugs, but after that XP will be dead. It'll probably be available for half what it's selling for now.

That's what happened with 2000 and Millennium when XP came out.

Millennium deserved to die. :p

morespce54
Jan 31, 2007, 09:54 AM
so how much cheaper is XP now?

That's the question... I might finally allowed myself to get a copy... Who would have thought that one day, I would be saying that... ;)

nsjoker
Jan 31, 2007, 10:11 AM
Well it's finally here. I don't have to support it at work yet! :D

I've played with Vista RC 2 and the test drive. Aero is very demanding for what it does. I had to many application issues to. Looks like I'm sticking with XP to game.


Agreed. Ultimate is very slow, and things that took three clicks to do in XP now take 5 clicks in Visa. No run option from Start, hard to reach tcp/ip settings, etc. I hope they fix the performance issues :/

jettredmont
Jan 31, 2007, 10:11 AM
Do the Dutch not wear pants? :eek:

Or are they just REALLY tight?

Counter
Jan 31, 2007, 10:23 AM
Vista is released....


... and no one cares :rolleyes:

Yeah, all 5% of the personal computer market doesn't care. Fo sho!

jettredmont
Jan 31, 2007, 10:25 AM
Thoroughly enjoyed my local news starting off with one hard story (mountain lion sightings in town along the river ... kinda important) and then segueing right into the Microsoft Vista infomercial for five minutes (including footage of the "excitement" at the empty CompUSA and some guy apparently installing Vista with a screwdriver (??!!??)) before talking about the various other apparently fluff pieces of the day such as the war in Iraq, a local manhunt which was ongoing, and so on.

Good to know weve got our priorities straight. Seems like the news orgs decided they'd given too much publicity to Apple over the iPhone and wanted to make up for it in one day.

In any case, Vista launch appears to have been a non-event.

For anyone considering purchasing, make sure you buy an OEM version along with a USB cable or something. Yes, OEM versions are tied to hardware (ie, your current MacBook Pro), but the non-OEM version for twice as much is only licensed for installation on two machines over the course of its lifetime anyway. Seems silly to pay for the second machine license up front instead of waiting until you need it (especially considering there's a good chance you'll not want it by then anyway!)

For the guy comparing prices: If you'd been operating on five-year-old software on your Mac for the past five years, you'd have paid $129 or less (seems like 10.0/10.1 was cheaper than that) at the time your Windows colleagues bought XP for $200 a piece, and could upgrade to a modern OS for $129 (presumably) in a few months. A lot cheaper than even the OEM versions of Windows. Instead, you paid approximately the same price for all post-10.0 upgrades to OS X (10.2, 10.3, 10.4, and soon 10.5) as the guy working on the 5-year-old OS (Windows XP) just finally getting an upgrade today to Vista. And you didn't have to work on an obsolete, buggy, insecure OS for three or four of those years.

Howard Brazee
Jan 31, 2007, 10:29 AM
I don't know guys, Microsoft Windows (tm) Vista is a more secure operating system for the digital age. Not only can you know edit photo's in an operating system, Windows (tm) Vista also now includes the Windows (tm) Sidebar that has great little mini-applications that can not only get you news and weather, but also sports scores. Also, with Vista's brand new Aero interface, everything seems to be made of glass, that you want lick everything and put your face up against it. You can also see more 3D effects and visuals like never before possible in an operating system (only in Home Premium or better). These fantastic features are only found in the most secure and advanced operating system to date, Microsoft Windows (tm) Vista. (

Boy those features sound great. To bad I'm at work using an XP machine instead at at the machine at home that has all of those features except for the (tm) parts.

Mr. Amiga500
Jan 31, 2007, 10:35 AM
I find this hard to believe. In fact, I call total BS. I put vista business on a not-so-current thinkpad and all features including aero are working as far as I can tell. And yes, solitaire works.

Uh, do you have a Radeon 9200SE in that thinkpad? (hint: it's a desktop card, so no you do not) So... unless you have the exact same computer setup of the user that got the solitaire error message, there's no way you can say it's "total BS". Vista works nicely for you and that's great for you. But don't assume that because it works on your computer that everybody everywhere will have the exact same experience.

guzhogi
Jan 31, 2007, 10:43 AM
Millennium deserved to die. :p

The "ME" in Windows ME stands for Mistake Edition. :p

weg
Jan 31, 2007, 10:55 AM
Vista is released....


... and no one cares :rolleyes:

Apart from a few hundred Mac fanboys here in this forum ;-)
As much as I like my Mac: Windows will stay the dominating operating system, since Microsoft has the industry behind it. Why? Because nobody wants to be dependent on a single supplier, who controls the whole platform. At least Microsoft licenses its operating system to other hardware manufacturers...

And: Mac OS X doesn't run on the tablet PC that I want so desperately.
Anyway, I'm trying to stay open to all platforms, using my Mac at home and Linux/Vista at my office.

cheers,
Georg

Gump
Jan 31, 2007, 10:58 AM
Apart from a few hundred Mac fanboys here in this forum ;-)
As much as I like my Mac: Windows will stay the dominating operating system, since Microsoft has the industry behind it. Why? Because nobody wants to be dependent on a single supplier, who controls the whole platform. At least Microsoft licenses its operating system to other hardware manufacturers...

And: Mac OS X doesn't run on the tablet PC that I want so desperately.
Anyway, I'm trying to stay open to all platforms, using my Mac at home and Linux/Vista at my office.

cheers,
Georg

Agreed!!

pionata
Jan 31, 2007, 11:10 AM
Apple is doing the right thing waiting.... Im sure there next os will include more hardware/software interraction. And hopefully some touchscreen iMac with os XI will crash the pc world.

AidenShaw
Jan 31, 2007, 11:11 AM
In any case, Vista launch appears to have been a non-event.
Did you ever think that part of the lack of excitement is due to the fact that Vista was released in November to businesses?

I have it running on three machines, so I certainly wasn't going to go to a store at midnight to get a copy.

princealfie
Jan 31, 2007, 11:12 AM
Sorry but I got Windows Vista Business Edition for free. Now I need to buy a Macbook to stick this sucker on it next week!

My goodness... it's wierd how Vista forced me to upgrade to a Macbook :D :eek:

Okay, I hate this activation stuff. Anyone knows how to get rid of it?

tutubibi
Jan 31, 2007, 11:13 AM
Apart from a few hundred Mac fanboys here in this forum ;-)
As much as I like my Mac: Windows will stay the dominating operating system, since Microsoft has the industry behind it. Why? Because nobody wants to be dependent on a single supplier, who controls the whole platform. At least Microsoft licenses its operating system to other hardware manufacturers...

And: Mac OS X doesn't run on the tablet PC that I want so desperately.
Anyway, I'm trying to stay open to all platforms, using my Mac at home and Linux/Vista at my office.

cheers,
Georg

Agreed, but sooner or later having single supplier of operating system (mono-culture) will break or whole concept of OS will become obsolete.

Regarding Vista, it's hasta-la-Vista for me. I will stick with my Linux and OSX for now as paying $ 200-$400 for the privilege of being DRMed and WGAed is too much for me.

hagjohn
Jan 31, 2007, 11:28 AM
Ditto... I have more lockup's (BSOD) on my Macbook than my (homebuilt) XP desktop. I use only quality hardware with good drivers and I do not load my computer up with worthless programs.

Maybe for you. I locked up once a week on my first MBP. Now its about once a month on this C2DMBP. I use my older thinkpad as my work laptop because I need to know the system won't crash. I can count on one hand the number of times XP and 2K have frozen/locked up/BSODed on me and 4 of those times were due to me dinking around with drivers. Again Vista is Microsoft's 10.0. OS X was NOT pretty when it launched, and was pretty much a joke to many. Vista is a hell of a lot more polished then OS X was at the time. I fully expect in a years time most of Vista's bugs will be shaken out. Just like most of OS X's have been over the last 7 years.

gregorsamsa
Jan 31, 2007, 11:41 AM
Apart from a few hundred Mac fanboys here in this forum ;-)
As much as I like my Mac: Windows will stay the dominating operating system, since Microsoft has the industry behind it. Why? Because nobody wants to be dependent on a single supplier, who controls the whole platform. At least Microsoft licenses its operating system to other hardware manufacturers...

cheers,
Georg

Well, I can see that point of view. I like my Mac laptop & OS X, but as a gamer, I also know that companies like Dell appear to care a lot more about doing business with the millions like me than do Apple.

Apple's attitude seems to be: what, you also play games? Then buy a Mac Pro (or **** yourself off!). As long as Apple can't provide a greater range of hardware at reasonable prices, I'll be staying open-minded about Vista.

However, I also strongly expect Leopard to be more advanced than Vista on a number of levels. So interesting times ahead!

dqm
Jan 31, 2007, 12:04 PM
Look like you fanboys sure are....4 pages of saying how great the latest version of the Apple OS is??

Nobody cares..maybe. The 4% of people worldwide running Apple sure as hell seem to :D

Jeepboy
Jan 31, 2007, 12:13 PM
I'm a very proud Mac user that occasionally needs to use Windows via Boot Camp and/or Parallels. I've never been kind towards Microsoft, but decided against my better judgement to actually purchase my own copy of Windows Vista for my iMac at home so that I can work from home when needed. This is the story of how what little faith I had in Microsoft was ruined - by Microsoft.

MS has a Family Program, where if you buy a copy of Windows Vista Ultimate (the high end version), you can then also purchase up two two licenses of Windows Vista Home Premium at $50 each for additional machines in your home using a special web site. This is only offered for those who purchase their copy of Vista Ultimate through a retail channel.

I purchased the Ultimate copy via Amazon for my Macbook Pro at work ($400) and then when I got home, I purchased one additional license ($50) for Home Premium through the Microsoft web site for my iMac at home. That's $450 that I gave Microsoft.

The online sale went fine and I was issued a license key for my second machine. The problem was that the key didn't work. I re-entered and double-checked it at length with no luck. Time to go to support. In the email I received it had a web link to follow if you need help, so I clicked. It goes to a non-existant page at microsoft.com, and still does today.

So, next I called the toll-free number in the email. It turns out that this is a Microsoft number, but for a different project. The person who answered my call was unusually candid with me. The poor people working at that number were not equipped for the deluge of calls they were receiving. They were not even supposed to be getting these calls. They had not been trained themselves on how to use Vista yet and had no idea what to do to remedy the problem. He told me that they've been getting "thousands" of calls all day long for this very same issue and that he can confirm for me that the keys being generated by the web site are not working for anyone.

He said all he could do was to take my name and number, which he wrote down on physical paper to deliver to his supervisor (I thought Microsoft had email, silly me). He said they were trying to get the attention of someone "higher in the food chain" to do something about it - or at least shut down the offending web page that's issuing the invalid keys. He told me he hoped that someone would get back to me "within a few days" and that he's very sorry but has nothing more to offer.

Microsoft does not offer refunds for purchases made through their web site and they are sticking to that policy, leaving users like me who already paid them hundreds of dollars with no recourse and unable to affect the remedy to this horrible situation.

On the very day that an OS is released that's been in development for half a decade, the least I expect is that their ordering systems are working correctly and their staff is properly prepared.

This has one again reinforced my impression of Microsoft as being an unresponsive company that makes crap software.

princealfie
Jan 31, 2007, 12:31 PM
I got my Vista for free and for me, I don't expect to need any support.

Perhaps people can get Vista help from the Mac Geniuses? :D

areyouwishing
Jan 31, 2007, 12:51 PM
You know that episode of the Simpsons when Homer's brother asks him to help him design a new car... and it totally comes out back-ass-wards? That's vista to me.

Im excited to see just how bad microsoft can make an os. The interview with Bill on the daily show, and pirates of silicon valley speak volumes about where microsoft is headed.

calculus
Jan 31, 2007, 12:54 PM
The only way that Vista will impact me is that in about three years time some IT monkey at work will load it onto my laptop. It will screw everything up so badly that I will end up being unable to work for a fortnight.

ATG
Jan 31, 2007, 01:06 PM
The only reason I will get vista is to play Halo 2. Eh, yeah, that's it.

Eidorian
Jan 31, 2007, 01:23 PM
I'm a very proud Mac user that occasionally needs to use Windows via Boot Camp and/or Parallels. I've never been kind towards Microsoft, but decided against my better judgement to actually purchase my own copy of Windows Vista for my iMac at home so that I can work from home when needed. This is the story of how what little faith I had in Microsoft was ruined - by Microsoft.

MS has a Family Program, where if you buy a copy of Windows Vista Ultimate (the high end version), you can then also purchase up two two licenses of Windows Vista Home Premium at $50 each for additional machines in your home using a special web site. This is only offered for those who purchase their copy of Vista Ultimate through a retail channel.

I purchased the Ultimate copy via Amazon for my Macbook Pro at work ($400) and then when I got home, I purchased one additional license ($50) for Home Premium through the Microsoft web site for my iMac at home. That's $450 that I gave Microsoft.

The online sale went fine and I was issued a license key for my second machine. The problem was that the key didn't work. I re-entered and double-checked it at length with no luck. Time to go to support. In the email I received it had a web link to follow if you need help, so I clicked. It goes to a non-existant page at microsoft.com, and still does today.

So, next I called the toll-free number in the email. It turns out that this is a Microsoft number, but for a different project. The person who answered my call was unusually candid with me. The poor people working at that number were not equipped for the deluge of calls they were receiving. They were not even supposed to be getting these calls. They had not been trained themselves on how to use Vista yet and had no idea what to do to remedy the problem. He told me that they've been getting "thousands" of calls all day long for this very same issue and that he can confirm for me that the keys being generated by the web site are not working for anyone.

He said all he could do was to take my name and number, which he wrote down on physical paper to deliver to his supervisor (I thought Microsoft had email, silly me). He said they were trying to get the attention of someone "higher in the food chain" to do something about it - or at least shut down the offending web page that's issuing the invalid keys. He told me he hoped that someone would get back to me "within a few days" and that he's very sorry but has nothing more to offer.

Microsoft does not offer refunds for purchases made through their web site and they are sticking to that policy, leaving users like me who already paid them hundreds of dollars with no recourse and unable to affect the remedy to this horrible situation.

On the very day that an OS is released that's been in development for half a decade, the least I expect is that their ordering systems are working correctly and their staff is properly prepared.

This has one again reinforced my impression of Microsoft as being an unresponsive company that makes crap software.Wow, what a painful experience. I thought Microsoft had that family offer on Home Premium too. Yours keys didn't work AND you had no one to turn to. :(

princealfie
Jan 31, 2007, 01:27 PM
The Tiger Family Pack seems more like a better deal to me. :rolleyes:

CiBoys
Jan 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
http://www.microsoft.com/winme/0701/29339/GA_Launch_MBR.asx

They even copie the theme song from Apple when the released the 12 and the 17 inch PBs :)

Data
Jan 31, 2007, 01:34 PM
Look like you fanboys sure are....4 pages of saying how great the latest version of the Apple OS is??

Nobody cares..maybe. The 4% of people worldwide running Apple sure as hell seem to :D


I'm happy you registerd on the forum just to point it out to me, thank you very much ;-).

phungy
Jan 31, 2007, 01:43 PM
These were in the paper today...:D

I wonder what he's going to do with the others...

teejaysplace
Jan 31, 2007, 01:43 PM
I heard an ad on the radio yesterday. The sales guy says something to the effect of "You can come down and by a copy of Windows Vista." And the customer says "You mean it's here already!"

Honesly, you'd think they rushed it out of Redmond on a Concorde or something. With as much time as it spend in devo, a wagon train would have been faster.

digitalbiker
Jan 31, 2007, 01:50 PM
[QUOTE=Jeepboy;3308375]I'm a very proud Mac user that occasionally needs to use Windows via Boot Camp and/or Parallels. I've never been kind towards Microsoft, but decided against my better judgement to actually purchase my own copy of Windows Vista for my iMac at home so that I can work from home when needed. This is the story of how what little faith I had in Microsoft was ruined - by Microsoft./QUOTE]


Wow! I feel your pain. I hate when circumstances come together to create a pain in the ass roadblock like that.

However, I have one question for you. Can't you load Vista anyway? XP lets you go ahead and install but will deactivate after a certain time period.

Doesn't Vista allow you to go ahead and install now and then activate when you get the proper registration numbers at a later date?

iomar
Jan 31, 2007, 01:51 PM
reality check:

BBC uk poll for yesterday in the technology news section.

does the WOW starts now for you?

yes?
no?


^ .. 19% say yes ... 81% say no

redmond stockup on angina pills.


That is very true... I think that WOW starts here will kill windows, because it is not true. I sat through some training sessions for window vista at CES and I was laughing when the vista demonstrator was telling the audience now you should say WOW. The people at the audience were not impressed at all and I was thinking will I have most of the features in my Mac OS X already what is the big deal.

Anyway, I think for those people who have been waiting for Vista before making there decision to switch to Mac platforms now they have a very good reason to switch and leave Microsoft. I think Vista is going to Kill Microsoft's domination, specially when Leopard comes out. This will be a wonderful year for Apple, if you don't have Apples stock it is still a good time to buy. There market share should pass 10% and keep moving up.

Frisco
Jan 31, 2007, 01:57 PM
Just a quick FYI for all those purchasing Vista: Buy the upgrade version, not the full version.

There is already a workaround that let's you install a clean copy of the upgrade version:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Data
Jan 31, 2007, 02:03 PM
That is very true... I think that WOW starts here will kill windows, because it is not true. I sat through some training sessions for window vista at CES and I was laughing when the vista demonstrator was telling the audience now you should say WOW. The people at the audience were not impressed at all and I was thinking will I have most of the features in my Mac OS X already what is the big deal.

Anyway, I think for those people who have been waiting for Vista before making there decision to switch to Mac platforms now they have a very good reason to switch and leave Microsoft. I think Vista is going to Kill Microsoft's domination, specially when Leopard comes out. This will be a wonderful year for Apple, if you don't have Apples stock it is still a good time to buy. There market share should pass 10% and keep moving up.

This will kill windows ? I don't see how that is going to happen since 95 % of the pcees being sold world wide as of today will be shipping with Windows Vista just like it was with XP, so unless 55% of the people switch to Mac computers that is not gonna chance anything. Most people i know would just go for the next version of windows anyway since they are used to working wit it for so may years now , they don't feel like learning a new OS at all.

direzz
Jan 31, 2007, 02:03 PM
yeah, as much as i love os x, i'm looking forward to seeing what vista is like

agreed, i mean, ive only played around with it for a bit, and i have to say its a major leap from xp. theres a lot of stuff that makes it easier to use.

but honestly, still love my os x :P

jettredmont
Jan 31, 2007, 02:11 PM
Look like you fanboys sure are....4 pages of saying how great the latest version of the Apple OS is??

Nobody cares..maybe. The 4% of people worldwide running Apple sure as hell seem to :D

Do you find this surprising?

Seriously, Windows has finally started to take some of the steps OS X took five years ago. Between a sense of vindication (after all the "that'll never work! It'll always be slow!" nay-saying from Redmond) and a sense of excitement over Apple finally having some external pressure to make large advances again, I'd have been really surprised if those of us who love our Macs weren't interested in Vista. Add to that the near-universal truism that we'll have to deal with Vista at work some day in the (distant?) future, and will continue to have to play tech support for our Windows friends and family, and there's really not much of a "just ignore the flop" choice there: we have to hope that the "advances" there will turn out to be more than marketing.

What it tells me, though, is that we're apparently more interested in it than Windows customers. Which means that we've been expecting a lot more out of Vista than was delivered. Which is a bad thing for all involved, unfortunately.

jettredmont
Jan 31, 2007, 02:11 PM
Did you ever think that part of the lack of excitement is due to the fact that Vista was released in November to businesses?

I have it running on three machines, so I certainly wasn't going to go to a store at midnight to get a copy.

If Microsoft doesn't want to be mocked for their big event being a dud, they shouldn't send their shills out to every talk show in the universe and send their infomercials to every local TV station with five minutes to fill.

If they expected this to hit with a resounding silence, then they sure didn't act like it.

BTW, I haven't seen any businesses picking up on Vista either. Granted, I only interface with a handful of corporations, but that hand full is sticking with XP for as long as they can.

princealfie
Jan 31, 2007, 02:16 PM
This will kill windows ? I don't see how that is going to happen since 95 % of the pcees being sold world wide as of today will be shipping with Windows Vista just like it was with XP, so unless 55% of the people switch to Mac computers that is not gonna chance anything. Most people i know would just go for the next version of windows anyway since they are used to working wit it for so may years now , they don't feel like learning a new OS at all.

Are you serious? Perhaps you don't use Macs so you don't know anything about beating market share eh, bud? :mad:

morespce54
Jan 31, 2007, 03:47 PM
...Seems like the news orgs decided they'd given too much publicity to Apple over the iPhone and wanted to make up for it in one day.

Off topic but a few friends of mine (total of 3 actually) were asking if I'll get the iPhone in June. All 3 said they would get it for sure (...)
The funny part is that they don't even have a Mac nor a iPod... I guess the marketing guys at Apple did a good job! ;)

Whistleway
Jan 31, 2007, 03:50 PM
for anyone who wants to try out vista: http://www.windowsvistatestdrive.com/

Its got to be in IE though. But I understand why. MS lets you play around with virtual sessions on a server up in the sky somewhere. Enter an e-mail address (can be fake.) Click on one of the propa....I mean feature buttons. Then click on the test drive button. It will start up what I'm assuming is a Virtual Server session. You can jack up the resolution of you want more then the standard 800 x 600 window. Kinda slick.

Wow. That website is plain sick. Can't believe they do all that from the browser. Really cool.

Thanks for sharing.

Whistleway
Jan 31, 2007, 04:08 PM
yeah - when ever I see him talk I cringe.

True that. Just watching it and it is oh so.. bad :(

eric_n_dfw
Jan 31, 2007, 04:09 PM
Wow. That website is plain sick. Can't believe they do all that from the browser. Really cool.

Thanks for sharing.

It's basically just a remote desktop client to some server in Redmond (or somewhere) - the browser is just the delivery platform for the program (ActiveX control) you ran on your PC to access it.

MacConvert
Jan 31, 2007, 04:10 PM
... in expressing the sentiment for Vista's release in one word - PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT! :D

isuhydrbird83
Jan 31, 2007, 04:11 PM
Bah. Everyone knows that MS just copied OS X, and when Leopard comes out we'll leave them in the dust again.

Actually MS is already in the dust - I still can't believe how crude XP is when I've used it since switching. Haven't used Vista yet, but it'll be interesting to see how it is.

I will be making the switch to Mac when Leopard comes out. Does anyone know when the official launch date is?, will it ship at the end of feb? Ready to make the jump but want to have a macbook preinstalled with the Leopard. :apple:

isuhydrbird83
Jan 31, 2007, 04:16 PM
I've owned my iMac (PPC) for just over a year........

All I can say is "Why didn't I buy one sooner!!"....

I have no desire, nay, no intentions of switching back to a Windows machine.

Who cares about Vista. My IT guy at work said they won't be upgrading the systems to Vista.....too risky!!! They've just been able to stabilize the network on XP, so going to Vista would be too costly, time consuming and, like I said, risky.

But, I'm sure they'll sell a ton of them because they're on 95% of the machines out there. However, I wonder if more people will start switching to Linux due to all the bad publicity Vista's receiving?

I feel you. the dancing windows people outside of the building in NY did not do much but ahhh people but i am upset with the computer manufacturers that they failed to come out with new models and all they did was upgrade to the minimum requirements of vista, what a waste!!!!!!!

im waiting on a no lemon to get a mac through best buy, glad that they carry mac on their website!!!:)

kugino
Jan 31, 2007, 04:21 PM
sorry if this has been posted already...

but i was watching "regis and kelly" this morning to see leo laporte talk about computers. leo showed off the 24" iMac and it was running vista under parallels...it runs but is the problem that it doesn't run well? (gotta go and read the original post, i guess)...

WyLLyM
Jan 31, 2007, 05:10 PM
*at my desk, as I have for quite a few years now, thinking to myself*


"what's vista?.... I'm waiting for Longhorn"

pubwvj
Jan 31, 2007, 05:29 PM
Microsoft Launched Vista on Tuesday ... and nobody noticed.

Chef Medeski
Jan 31, 2007, 05:36 PM
I will be making the switch to Mac when Leopard comes out. Does anyone know when the official launch date is?, will it ship at the end of feb? Ready to make the jump but want to have a macbook preinstalled with the Leopard. :apple:

Doubtful. Very unlikely. And no one knows the exact date or for that matter a real approximation. All everyone knows it end of spring. So... sorry man.

Supa_Fly
Jan 31, 2007, 06:02 PM
Apart from a few hundred Mac fanboys here in this forum ;-)
As much as I like my Mac: Windows will stay the dominating operating system, since Microsoft has the industry behind it. Why? Because nobody wants to be dependent on a single supplier, who controls the whole platform. At least Microsoft licenses its operating system to other hardware manufacturers...

And: Mac OS X doesn't run on the tablet PC that I want so desperately.
Anyway, I'm trying to stay open to all platforms, using my Mac at home and Linux/Vista at my office.

cheers,
Georg

Although I agree that Windows will stay the dominating operating system for quite some time; I must disagree regarding the industry. Different Industry's and sub players (major) within are looking for different avenues. Here's where I plug in Apple's Final Cut Studio Pro, and Germany's government offices ALL running Linux on their computers & network. I feel that once a pure office environement that offers FULL compatibility with Office 2002XP & with a specific Linux kernel designed for the desktop & look & feel is much more refined (and copyright borderline look of Windows) then, THEN we'll see pure competition. ALso when 3rd party developers see more profits making software for such a kernel we'll see more users using Linux. Lastly I do believe that IBM & Compaq is shipping Linux already on laptops/desktops. Its slow but its happening.

You keep forgetting that Microsoft STILL controls the OS that it licenses to manufacturer's and doesn't allow critic creativity control being done to the core OS where it'll be unfamiliar in action, operating from what is on the market shelf. This isn't too far from what Palm Inc did with their OS to Sony before the sub-divisioned (Palm Source) sale of the OS (Access/Palm Source 2). As industries compartmentalize or adapt & grow to changing needs of business & end user > Sony dropped Palm OS and stopped making PDA's all together and partnered with Ericsson to make SE. Now SE is focused on Symbian UIQ3 (even purchasing UIQ3) - no matter even if features its an uphill battle & market share is lower than even MS/S60 they will NOT go back to Microsft Mobile OS.

Lastly, DELL, Toshiba, Gateway IS dependant on one vender ... Microsoft! Now new hardware advancement without a new OS, well they'll advance but nothing major will ship until Vista.

wmmk
Jan 31, 2007, 06:14 PM
*at my desk, as I have for quite a few years now, thinking to myself*


"what's vista?.... I'm waiting for Longhorn"

I'm sure you're probably joking, but Vista and "Longhorn" are actually very different. Unlike Vista, the first editions of Longhorn (never released publicly, but some info was leaked) were actually decent releases and had some really cool features. Vista is just NT's latest makeover...

WyLLyM
Jan 31, 2007, 06:42 PM
I'm sure you're probably joking, but Vista and "Longhorn" are actually very different. Unlike Vista, the first editions of Longhorn (never released publicly, but some info was leaked) were actually decent releases and had some really cool features. Vista is just NT's latest makeover...

Yep.. just joking, but still, kinda thought that "Longhorn" made a better
name than vista. *L*

It's still just ms's way of trying to shoot first, but missing the target.


Though. I do have to give it too them, by way of the 360 v. ps3. They did that one right.

ryanyogan
Jan 31, 2007, 06:47 PM
Let me say I like macs, I like all tech related things, I could care less who makes the OS as long as it works.

Appearntly alot of you are already MCSE's on Vista and know the OS inside and out, enough to make statements to general that if someone outside this forum asked you a question and you answered in the same form you'd be a complete ass..

Face the facts, Aero (the "clear glass") runs on DirectX, Microsoft doesn't care if you don't have the hardware to run it, disable it or don't use it. We test Vista and have been for 5 months on every type of hardware configuration we can think up at our offices and it is snappy as can be. If you can't afford a gig of ram, you can't afford a computer let alone the powerbill to run it.

I like how alot of you claim that Microsoft steals all of "Apple's" innovations, let me tell you a little thing. Apple's OS is based on a GNU distro of Unix, Apple has since then given nothing back to the open source community from there OS. A majority of the apps in OS X are all purchased and or ripped from small time developers. Is this wrong? NO! Why re-invent the wheel? Are you telling me if Ford comes out with a new power steering tomorrow that requires no power steering pump no one else in the industry will try and mimic this? Its competition get over it.

I can tell you right now, Vista is a great OS. It is what XP should of been and more. The GUI is more then enough, what the hell more do you need, do you guys just sit and open and close apps to watch the effects instead of using them to get work done? The developer tools are amazing and years ahead of any other os. The longhorn server / Vista features are again outstanding, have a look for yourself. Windows update actually works, no more issues with drivers it finds 99% of everything.

All I am saying is try it out, and it is not as expensive as you think www.newegg.com and grab yourself an OEM version for $149 - $199....

If you like macs thats fine, but don't bash something you know nothing about.

SiliconAddict
Jan 31, 2007, 06:54 PM
I'm sure you're probably joking, but Vista and "Longhorn" are actually very different. Unlike Vista, the first editions of Longhorn (never released publicly, but some info was leaked) were actually decent releases and had some really cool features. Vista is just NT's latest makeover...

Ummm no they aren't. Longhorn is Vista's code name. The two are the same. Sometime in 2003 Microsoft relized that using XP's code base for Vista wasn't going to work and they literally started from scratch with Server 2003's code. In the next 2 years MS dropped several major features of Longhorn and then finally announced the official name in 2004, I think it was '04, as Vista. If you are going to talk Vista get the story straight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista

SiliconAddict
Jan 31, 2007, 07:11 PM
Oh just so others know.....


T mobile is having a nice promo for anyone running Vista. 3 free months of WIFI service at any of their access points scattered around the US as long as you are running Vista. How are they authenticating that you have Vista? Through your browser's user agent of course. And away we go......


1. Download the firefox extension for spoofing user-agents: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/59/

2. Restart firefox and goto: Tools > User Agent Switcher > Options > Options...

3. Click "User Agents" and then "Add"

4. Fill out the window with following info:
Description: Internet Explorer 7 (Windows Vista)
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)
App Name: Microsoft Internet Explorer
App Version: 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)
Platform: Win32

5. Save it, goto Tools > User Agent Switcher > Then click the newly added one. Browse over to http://hotspot.t-mobile.com/vista/ and you should be redirected to a trial sign-up page. (NO CCARD REQUIRED.)


Hmmm does this break the rules on Macrumors? :confused: Technically I guess it is stealing. :confused: I'll let a moderator decide that one and see if the post goes poof.

galstaph
Jan 31, 2007, 07:17 PM
I still couldn't justify it. Even if I can get the student edition for 120$. there is only ONE program I cannot use on my mac that I use almost daily... autocad... and WHEN I get my new intel mac eventually.... i will use xp most likely... :p

bzeh1976
Jan 31, 2007, 07:27 PM
I upgraded to Vista And I am happy with it so far

A few points

-As a prevous poster said it is "eye candy." It is nice to finally see a new look.

-It definately copies several things Mac OS has first such as gadgets, mail, calendar, contacts, search, and photo. However it is nice to see these things on a pc.

-If it ends up being more secure it will definately be a worthwhile upgrade.

-It is definately much less cluttered.

-It only cost $99

dernhelm
Jan 31, 2007, 07:27 PM
It will probably take a few weeks for the prices to come down, but it will happen soon.

It didn't drop much when XP replaced 98. I remember more than a year later still seeing 98 on the shelves for the same price as XP. You could get it cheaper of you didn't go to a COMPUsa (or wherever) to purchase it, but at the stores, Microsoft made sure they kept that price as high as possible for as long as possible.

stephenli
Jan 31, 2007, 07:37 PM
The funny part is that they don't even have a Mac nor a iPod... I guess the marketing guys at Apple did a good job! ;)
You mean our dearest Mr. Steve Jobs? Yes, he did!


Well, since I am using Quad G5 with VPC 7... I guess my only choice is to use Windows 2000, forever.
I did try to install Vista Beta 2 but it just a nightmare of endless restart, restart and restart...

wmmk
Jan 31, 2007, 08:30 PM
Ummm no they aren't. Longhorn is Vista's code name. The two are the same. Sometime in 2003 Microsoft relized that using XP's code base for Vista wasn't going to work and they literally started from scratch with Server 2003's code. In the next 2 years MS dropped several major features of Longhorn and then finally announced the official name in 2004, I think it was '04, as Vista. If you are going to talk Vista get the story straight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista

I understand. What I mean to say is that the original Longhorn concept was a hell of a lot cooler than the final release of Vista.

wmmk
Jan 31, 2007, 08:33 PM
Oh just so others know.....


T mobile is having a nice promo for anyone running Vista. 3 free months of WIFI service at any of their access points scattered around the US as long as you are running Vista. How are they authenticating that you have Vista? Through your browser's user agent of course. And away we go......


1. Download the firefox extension for spoofing user-agents: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/59/

2. Restart firefox and goto: Tools > User Agent Switcher > Options > Options...

3. Click "User Agents" and then "Add"

4. Fill out the window with following info:
Description: Internet Explorer 7 (Windows Vista)
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)
App Name: Microsoft Internet Explorer
App Version: 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)
Platform: Win32

5. Save it, goto Tools > User Agent Switcher > Then click the newly added one. Browse over to http://hotspot.t-mobile.com/vista/ and you should be redirected to a trial sign-up page. (NO CCARD REQUIRED.)


Hmmm does this break the rules on Macrumors? :confused: Technically I guess it is stealing. :confused: I'll let a moderator decide that one and see if the post goes poof.
FWIW, this is easily done on safari by enabling the debug menu (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030110063041629).

Oh, and could I start the trial later and still get 3 months, or is this only available until 3 months from the Vista release date.

ezekielrage_99
Jan 31, 2007, 09:13 PM
A few points

-As a prevous poster said it is "eye candy." It is nice to finally see a new look.

-It definately copies several things Mac OS has first such as gadgets, mail, calendar, contacts, search, and photo. However it is nice to see these things on a pc.

-If it ends up being more secure it will definately be a worthwhile upgrade.

-It is definately much less cluttered.

I completely agree with your points however Mac OSX look pretty enough, Mac OSX does everthing I need, Vista has similar looks/stuff to Mac OSX and my work isn't looking to upgrade for sometime (6 months at least) so I really can't see any justifiable points to hand out the cash for a Vista upgrade.

All realtime tests I have seen so far (look at Tom's Hardware) Vista is 8% to 15% slower than XP. I have CrossOver and Cider which runs all my Windows software rather well without the need for Bootcamp and therefore I don't really have to use XP (well only at work).

I'd rather save my money and wait for Leopard because I know when Leopard is released I wont be thinking like this. :apple:

fustercluck
Jan 31, 2007, 10:02 PM
Let me say I like macs, I like all tech related things, I could care less who makes the OS as long as it works.

Appearntly alot of you are already MCSE's on Vista and know the OS inside and out, enough to make statements to general that if someone outside this forum asked you a question and you answered in the same form you'd be a complete ass..

Face the facts, Aero (the "clear glass") runs on DirectX, Microsoft doesn't care if you don't have the hardware to run it, disable it or don't use it. We test Vista and have been for 5 months on every type of hardware configuration we can think up at our offices and it is snappy as can be. If you can't afford a gig of ram, you can't afford a computer let alone the powerbill to run it.

I like how alot of you claim that Microsoft steals all of "Apple's" innovations, let me tell you a little thing. Apple's OS is based on a GNU distro of Unix, Apple has since then given nothing back to the open source community from there OS. A majority of the apps in OS X are all purchased and or ripped from small time developers. Is this wrong? NO! Why re-invent the wheel? Are you telling me if Ford comes out with a new power steering tomorrow that requires no power steering pump no one else in the industry will try and mimic this? Its competition get over it.

I can tell you right now, Vista is a great OS. It is what XP should of been and more. The GUI is more then enough, what the hell more do you need, do you guys just sit and open and close apps to watch the effects instead of using them to get work done? The developer tools are amazing and years ahead of any other os. The longhorn server / Vista features are again outstanding, have a look for yourself. Windows update actually works, no more issues with drivers it finds 99% of everything.

All I am saying is try it out, and it is not as expensive as you think www.newegg.com and grab yourself an OEM version for $149 - $199....

If you like macs thats fine, but don't bash something you know nothing about.

I posted this earlier, but you should take a look at this article.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

SiliconAddict
Jan 31, 2007, 10:33 PM
I understand. What I mean to say is that the original Longhorn concept was a hell of a lot cooler than the final release of Vista.

Ahhh. Very much. so. But that has always been the case with MS's OS's. From Chicago to Whistler to Longshot. :D

Columbo
Jan 31, 2007, 10:50 PM
There was a poll on the CNET article linked to on the first post. Asked if you've already got Vista, will be getting Vista, plan to stick with XP, or use/plan to switch to a Mac. The latter is the #1 vote, at over 50% (and over 11000 votes tallied). Are CNET readers traditionally Mac friendly, or could a paradigm shift be starting...?

Chundles
Jan 31, 2007, 11:04 PM
Early this morning there was a bulletin on the half-hourly news saying that Vista sales are much slower than expected and that consumers were unlikely to be moving over as the OS can't run properly on over 95% of the computers in the country.

I've been in a stack of big department stores and nobody - NOBODY - was buying it. No-one was even looking at it. These were your top of the line department stores well known for their computer departments and I've seen one - ONE - computer running Vista.

It's been reported that whilst more copies of Vista will be shipped than copies of XP purely due to momentum (there are simply more people around to buy Vista or have it pre-installed) sales are exceptionally slow for a release retailers expected to be huge.

It's really not going all that well and I don't expect it to until at least SP1 when it's had some bug fixes and the software developers are on board.

Peace
Jan 31, 2007, 11:14 PM
It was actually that way when XP first came out too.

seashellz2
Feb 1, 2007, 02:11 AM
It was interesting-here in Seattle-spitting distance from Microsoft,
the ususally 'local booster' press announced "VISTA's Launch:
more of a yawn than a circus"

hulugu
Feb 1, 2007, 03:06 AM
...
Face the facts, Aero (the "clear glass") runs on DirectX, Microsoft doesn't care if you don't have the hardware to run it, disable it or don't use it. We test Vista and have been for 5 months on every type of hardware configuration we can think up at our offices and it is snappy as can be. If you can't afford a gig of ram, you can't afford a computer let alone the powerbill to run it.

Wow. I do consulting work for a small business and they have a number of computers which will not run the 'aero' interface because of their limited video cards. The problem isn't just a gig of ram, but rather the entire requirements of Vista which are fairly large. Compare this to OSX which gave older machines a speed boost.

I like how alot of you claim that Microsoft steals all of "Apple's" innovations, let me tell you a little thing. Apple's OS is based on a GNU distro of Unix, Apple has since then given nothing back to the open source community from there OS. A majority of the apps in OS X are all purchased and or ripped from small time developers. Is this wrong? NO! Why re-invent the wheel? Are you telling me if Ford comes out with a new power steering tomorrow that requires no power steering pump no one else in the industry will try and mimic this? Its competition get over it.

First, OSX is based on FreeBSD. Second, Apple has given back to the OS community, but they're not required to do so. But, this is a red herring. Microsoft has taken its competitors' ideas (again) and incorporated them into their own while claiming to be innovative. Ford doesn't claim to have an innovative power steering pump and Microsoft shouldn't claim that Aero is an original idea when Quartz does the same thing and has been around for years.
It's the pretense that bothers me. It's not that Microsoft incorporates ideas from others, including Apple, but rather that they turn around and proclaim it new and original.

I can tell you right now, Vista is a great OS. It is what XP should of been and more. The GUI is more then enough, what the hell more do you need, do you guys just sit and open and close apps to watch the effects instead of using them to get work done?

So why is aero so great then? What other thing does it do besides make really cool 'glass' effects and 3D stacks?

The developer tools are amazing and years ahead of any other os. The longhorn server / Vista features are again outstanding, have a look for yourself. Windows update actually works, no more issues with drivers it finds 99% of everything.

You need to look at a few Linux distros, there's everything including the parts and instructions for making the kitchen sink. And there have been some problems with Nvidia drivers with Vista, so let's not proclaim Vista perfect just yet.

All I am saying is try it out, and it is not as expensive as you think www.newegg.com and grab yourself an OEM version for $149 - $199....

Help me out, should I buy the Home Basic, Home Premium, or the Super Ultra Maximus Server for 64-bit Power version? And, what is the deal with charging per processor?

Just saying, Vista's got potential but it's not the second-coming.

allanmac
Feb 1, 2007, 03:22 AM
I have a new 20" iMac and run XP Pro on Bootcamp when I need Windows. I dont really need Vista, but it would be nice to have the latest OS running just for the sake of it being new.
But prices in the UK are ridiculous. I saw Bill Gates on UK TV this week, he explained that MS prices should be similar in the UK to those in the USA. How little he knows.

So, if I want Vista now, I pay ( from Amazon.co.uk) £99.99 ( $200) for the basic Home edition upgrade or £353.99 ( $700) for Vista Ultimate! And, if I wanted to really update my MS products and buy Office 2007 Ultimate, it would cost me £579.99 ($1160)

I dont think Mr Gates is going to get any more of my money!!

Roll on Leopard.....now that, I`d pay for

Allan

weg
Feb 1, 2007, 04:16 AM
Perhaps people can get Vista help from the Mac Geniuses? :D

According to the majority of posters in this thread, the Mac Genius won't be able to tell the difference between Vista and Mac OS X ;-) (since Microsoft allegedly made a carbon copy of OS X).

mdelaney123
Feb 1, 2007, 07:24 AM
I agree. Retail OS X copies aren't upgrades, so it's only fair to count the full priced versions of Windows.

I own both Macs and PCs... I like both.

Just thought I would chime in on some of the "math" that is being thrown around here.

Back when XP came out you could upgrade to it for $149 (I don't remember the exact cost.) Now, 5 years later, you can upgrade that version of XP to Vista Home Premium for $159. (Less if you consider the free-bees most stores are throwing in.)

During that 5 years, XP had SEVERAL free upgrades, most significantly SP2.

So, I have to agree that Apple making us pay $129 for these small updates (Full Versions) to OSX every 1.5 years is a rip-off.

I just installed Vista on our Family PC and it is VERY nice. We have noticed no slow-down in games (WOW, AOE3, Oblivion).

mdelaney123
Feb 1, 2007, 07:32 AM
Agreed. Ultimate is very slow, and things that took three clicks to do in XP now take 5 clicks in Visa. No run option from Start, hard to reach tcp/ip settings, etc. I hope they fix the performance issues :/

Don't know what verison you are using, but my start menu has a Run command. I also have not noticed "more clicks"...

mdelaney123
Feb 1, 2007, 07:38 AM
However, I also strongly expect Leopard to be more advanced than Vista on a number of levels. So interesting times ahead!

Really? Like what?

Not trying to be a smart-a, I would really like to know. I have read up on Leopard and watched the Keynote. From what I can tell, it only adds incremental updates. I know there are some super-secret features, but from what has been shown, I can live without Leopard.

mdelaney123
Feb 1, 2007, 07:56 AM
I've been in a stack of big department stores and nobody - NOBODY - was buying it. No-one was even looking at it. These were your top of the line department stores well known for their computer departments and I've seen one - ONE - computer running Vista.



I bet MS has sold more copies of Vista right now than Apple has sold of Tiger. All the stores in the DC area seem to be selling plenty of copies of Vista.

Best Buy has a great deal: Buy Vista Home Premium Upgrade for $159, get Windows live One Care ($49), H&R TaxCut Deluxe ($29), and 512MB Ram ($40) all for free. No Rebates. Also, they have several other products HEAVILY discounted. I also picked up a Dlink Draft-N Wireless Router for $29, and a Kodak 7.1mp 10X Optical Zoom Digital Camera for $149.

Nym
Feb 1, 2007, 08:21 AM
Maybe, but the fact that it's selling doesn't make it a good product, guess I'll have to try it out for myself.
Still, as of this moment, I see no reason to upgrade from XP because I only use it for gaming and the occasional Illustrator CS2.

hagjohn
Feb 1, 2007, 08:23 AM
That's because they have an inventory of "XP" computers they need to sell.

I've been in a stack of big department stores and nobody - NOBODY - was buying it. No-one was even looking at it. These were your top of the line department stores well known for their computer departments and I've seen one - ONE - computer running Vista.

princealfie
Feb 1, 2007, 08:28 AM
Let me say I like macs, I like all tech related things, I could care less who makes the OS as long as it works.

Appearntly alot of you are already MCSE's on Vista and know the OS inside and out, enough to make statements to general that if someone outside this forum asked you a question and you answered in the same form you'd be a complete ass..

Face the facts, Aero (the "clear glass") runs on DirectX, Microsoft doesn't care if you don't have the hardware to run it, disable it or don't use it. We test Vista and have been for 5 months on every type of hardware configuration we can think up at our offices and it is snappy as can be. If you can't afford a gig of ram, you can't afford a computer let alone the powerbill to run it.

I like how alot of you claim that Microsoft steals all of "Apple's" innovations, let me tell you a little thing. Apple's OS is based on a GNU distro of Unix, Apple has since then given nothing back to the open source community from there OS. A majority of the apps in OS X are all purchased and or ripped from small time developers. Is this wrong? NO! Why re-invent the wheel? Are you telling me if Ford comes out with a new power steering tomorrow that requires no power steering pump no one else in the industry will try and mimic this? Its competition get over it.

I can tell you right now, Vista is a great OS. It is what XP should of been and more. The GUI is more then enough, what the hell more do you need, do you guys just sit and open and close apps to watch the effects instead of using them to get work done? The developer tools are amazing and years ahead of any other os. The longhorn server / Vista features are again outstanding, have a look for yourself. Windows update actually works, no more issues with drivers it finds 99% of everything.

All I am saying is try it out, and it is not as expensive as you think www.newegg.com and grab yourself an OEM version for $149 - $199....

If you like macs thats fine, but don't bash something you know nothing about.

Wait a minute! Accusing us of not knowing much about Vista eh? Just because we use Macs doesn't we haven't explored the dark side of humanity you know? :p

mdelaney123
Feb 1, 2007, 09:14 AM
Still, as of this moment, I see no reason to upgrade from XP because I only use it for gaming and the occasional Illustrator CS2.

You know, I am supprised MS is not advertising this more, but one of the features I am REALLY looking forward to with Vista is the Xbox Live Anywhere integration.

Games for Vista will integrate into the Xbox Live service (Which is awesome) and will allow you to post/accumulate achievements, play with Xbox 360 gamers, Easily Voice Chat, and bring a common interface to online gaming. (Among other things...)

You really don't hear too much about it, but I hear it should be active before summer.

weckart
Feb 1, 2007, 09:49 AM
Oh just so others know.....


T mobile is having a nice promo for anyone running Vista. 3 free months of WIFI service at any of their access points scattered around the US as long as you are running Vista. How are they authenticating that you have Vista? Through your browser's user agent of course. And away we go......


1. Download the firefox extension for spoofing user-agents: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/59/

2. Restart firefox and goto: Tools > User Agent Switcher > Options > Options...

3. Click "User Agents" and then "Add"

4. Fill out the window with following info:
Description: Internet Explorer 7 (Windows Vista)
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)
App Name: Microsoft Internet Explorer
App Version: 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)
Platform: Win32

5. Save it, goto Tools > User Agent Switcher > Then click the newly added one. Browse over to http://hotspot.t-mobile.com/vista/ and you should be redirected to a trial sign-up page. (NO CCARD REQUIRED.)


Hmmm does this break the rules on Macrumors? :confused: Technically I guess it is stealing. :confused: I'll let a moderator decide that one and see if the post goes poof.

It also says in the small print that it requires an ActiveX control to be installed in order to validate. Not sure how that would work on OS X.

73CortinaV8
Feb 1, 2007, 10:10 AM
Uh, do you have a Radeon 9200SE in that thinkpad? (hint: it's a desktop card, so no you do not) So... unless you have the exact same computer setup of the user that got the solitaire error message, there's no way you can say it's "total BS". Vista works nicely for you and that's great for you. But don't assume that because it works on your computer that everybody everywhere will have the exact same experience.

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that a machine that was able to boot vista at all would not be able to run a simple program like solitaire.
And your anecdote is 2nd hand. "I've read a report from one Vista user..." Got a link?

For all the bluster here, how many people have actually here tried vista? 2 or three?!
I'm no microsoft apologist (msft has never gotten 1 cent from me (barring some unknown msft licenses in the mac software I run)), and I wouldn't use vista except maybe on work PCs where I have to use windows, but I'm amazed at all the people talking out their a**es here and forming opinions on hearsay.

Flame away.

Seasought
Feb 1, 2007, 10:52 AM
I think Vista will get bought just like all the other Microsoft operating systems. People will gasp and awe at how amazing the OS looks despite it being an obvious copy of OS X. Next, we'll hear complaints about how bloated and unstable it is but the sheep will keep installing it and using it any way. :mad:

As for it being more "secure" we'll see, won't we?

Stella
Feb 1, 2007, 11:37 AM
I didn't hear about long line ups in stores at midnight like previous microsoft releases.

Seemed like a non event though on Tuesday I did see a Vista tent on Dundas square, it looked quite full.

But, at the end of the day, Apple would dearly wish to sell as many copies of OSX as Vista will in its life time ( read: significantly more copies than OSX ).

HailToTheVictor
Feb 1, 2007, 11:55 AM
I saw something today that made me register finally after reading posts nearly every day for two years. I was walking by my school's ITCS office and they a computer with a slidshow of all the great new features of Vista, several pages worth in fact and I stopped to watch for a while. Oh yeah, it was displayed on a iMac. I love this campus more Macs then PC'.:D

janitorC7
Feb 1, 2007, 11:58 AM
I saw something today that made me register finally after reading posts nearly every day for two years. I was walking by my school's ITCS office and they a computer with a slidshow of all the great new features of Vista, several pages worth in fact and I stopped to watch for a while. Oh yeah, it was displayed on a iMac. I love this campus more Macs then PC'.:D

thats awesome.....

a complete waste of an imac, but whatever

QuarterSwede
Feb 1, 2007, 12:05 PM
But, at the end of the day, Apple would dearly wish to sell as many copies of OSX as Vista will in its life time ( read: significantly more copies than OSX ).
I think you meant, "Apple would dearly wish to sell as many Mac's as copies of Vista in its life time."

I just think it's funny that most people are waiting till they buy a new computer to get Vista. I finally used it at Best Buy yesterday and have to say that it is a nice improvement over XP. BUT, it still isn't nearly as polished as OSX. Little things like minimizing a window can still sometimes cause the graphics to hiccup. I figured they would have gotten rid of that when they let the videocard handle the GUI.

In the end, I do think it's a bigger upgrade than most people seem to let on.

Lynxpro
Feb 1, 2007, 02:59 PM
Hmm, Vista was huge at our store today.
I guess its because we were giving away 512MB of RAM, Live Onecare, and Taxcut to anyone who bought the Home Premium, Business or Ultimate versions.


You must work for BestBuy. Got any Macs at your store location?

TagTV....the horror...the horror... :)

jettredmont
Feb 1, 2007, 03:22 PM
I like how alot of you claim that Microsoft steals all of "Apple's" innovations, let me tell you a little thing. Apple's OS is based on a GNU distro of Unix, Apple has since then given nothing back to the open source community from there OS. A majority of the apps in OS X are all purchased and or ripped from small time developers. Is this wrong? NO! Why re-invent the wheel? Are you telling me if Ford comes out with a new power steering tomorrow that requires no power steering pump no one else in the industry will try and mimic this? Its competition get over it.


First, OS X is based on BSD, not GNU (are you talking about the legendary Hurd? Or are you talking about Linux, which really has nothing to do with Gnu other than that it uses the Gnu toolset generally?). It ships with the BSD toolset along with a handful of gnu tools (gcc obviously; several others).

As for a majority of apps in OS X being bought or ripped off of smaller developers, I'd like to see some accounting of that. I can see iTunes 2.0 having that claim (although iTunes 7 can no longer claim that it is primarily or even substantially the code bought for iTunes 1). iPhoto? iCal? Mail? Spotlight? Expose?

Yes, as in all industries one maker will build off the advances of another maker. That's good for everyone. However, when one maker tends to do nothing more than incremental improvements over the other while the other makes leapfrog advances (Cocoa, Core Video, Quartz Extreme, etc), well, that first maker is open for ridicule as nothing more than a copycat.


I can tell you right now, Vista is a great OS. It is what XP should of been and more. The GUI is more then enough, what the hell more do you need, do you guys just sit and open and close apps to watch the effects instead of using them to get work done? The developer tools are amazing and years ahead of any other os. The longhorn server / Vista features are again outstanding, have a look for yourself. Windows update actually works, no more issues with drivers it finds 99% of everything.


I am very glad that Vista is an improvement over XP. XP was a huge improvement over Windows 9x (Me was an abomination so I'm not going to mention it further). The thing is: after five years, the features don't seem substantially better than what we've gotten with multiple Mac OS X releases over the same time period. It appears to have caught up with Tiger, at long last.

The things that scare me about Windows are the "Genuine Advantage" bits (I don't need Microsoft re-validating my licensing on a weekly basis, especially as it has a record of getting the answer wrong far too often) and the general usage restrictions (I can not move a bought copy of Vista to more than one computer, ever).

You mention developer tools. Is Microsoft now shipping Visual Studio free with Vista? I wasn't aware of that. As a full-time developer on both platforms, I appreciate the extras built into Visual Studio (although I don't like how recent versions have become significantly slower and more burdensome from release to release). Still, I really like the XCode/CHUD tools for fast, fun development, so much so that for the past two years I've done all my primary development in XCode and then ported back over to Visual Studio for Windows validation.

That having been said, when the developer tools cost many hundreds of dollars, they can hardly be said to be a factor for the majority of users.


All I am saying is try it out, and it is not as expensive as you think www.newegg.com and grab yourself an OEM version for $149 - $199....

If you like macs thats fine, but don't bash something you know nothing about.

Good advice. Do know, however, that OEM copies are absolutely, 100% tied to the motherboard on which they were first installed, and offer no tech support from MS if you find you need it. So, if you get a new Mac or Dell you'll have to buy the OS again. Still, the non-OEM version only allows one transfer to another box over its lifetime, and costs twice as much, so no big difference. Just realize that what you're getting for $149 from Microsoft is not the same as what you might be used to, and you'll have to re-buy for the next machine you purchase as well.

Xyl
Feb 1, 2007, 03:24 PM
I really like Apple's 1 OS model. :p

I was just looking at some Vista prices (just because I might want to get it) for all the editions I could buy:
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate UPGRADE Limited Numbered Signature Edition (Signed by Bill Gates)

WildPalms
Feb 1, 2007, 03:25 PM
That has got to be a joke....releasing so many ...erm...releases...

SiliconAddict
Feb 1, 2007, 04:00 PM
It also says in the small print that it requires an ActiveX control to be installed in order to validate. Not sure how that would work on OS X.

Huh. No installer for me....odd. :confused:

princealfie
Feb 1, 2007, 04:16 PM
Why can't Steve Jobs sign my Tiger to make it a limited edition?

Lynxpro
Feb 1, 2007, 04:18 PM
Not quite true - those waiting for the long-awaited demise of MS care, because they are eager to see if this will create a sea change in the whole PC market whereby we can return to the more progressive and creative era that was quashed so many years ago and is now in its revival. Dust off your Atari ST and your Amiga 1200 the good times are here again.


Atari ST representin' here. ;0

I really wish Apple would buy up the rights to Atari and set about to make "Atari" branded Mac computers focused on gaming. Make it into Apple's version of Alienware or Falcon Northwest. That would improve the gaming front for the OS X platform as a whole, without allegedly dilluting Apple's brand.

Lynxpro
Feb 1, 2007, 04:20 PM
Why can't Steve Jobs sign my Tiger to make it a limited edition?


Do it like the comics industry and put out multiple covers for the same release and pack in a "collectible" hologram.

Lynxpro
Feb 1, 2007, 04:25 PM
"Of course you know that Microsoft own 45% of Apple" he said, "that's why OS X is so good" at that point I grinned and went back to work :-)


So....you went to lunch with Steve Ballmer? :)


Geez...what happened to all of those alleged IQ tests that Microsoft gave to their job applicants? Are they now hiring the lowest-of-the-low MCSE certificate holders?

Shadow
Feb 1, 2007, 04:32 PM
I really like Apple's 1 OS model. :p

I was just looking at some Vista prices (just because I might want to get it) for all the editions I could buy:
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate UPGRADE Limited Numbered Signature Edition (Signed by Bill Gates)
But wait-there's more! Thats excluding the N and K versions for Europe and Korea!

Lynxpro
Feb 1, 2007, 04:39 PM
Agreed, but sooner or later having single supplier of operating system (mono-culture) will break or whole concept of OS will become obsolete.


I vote to a return of multiple platforms where each computer manufacturer championed their own OS. It was a more vibrant industry back then when we had the IBM PC (and compatibles), the Apple Mac, the Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST all vying for marketshare.

I'd really like to see Microsoft merge with Dell, Apple stay with OS X, and HP and Sony either embrace Linux (probably a co-branded Google distribution) or drop out of the market.

The gaming industry should get wise and start donating to keeping OpenGL viable and then make games that support it so it can be platform agnostic and easily port to the consoles as well. Or...how about an id Software distribution of Linux that optimizes for their latest gaming engine?

aranhamo
Feb 1, 2007, 05:23 PM
You mention developer tools. Is Microsoft now shipping Visual Studio free with Vista? I wasn't aware of that.

When we talked to Microsoft about getting licenses for Visual Studio .NET 2005, the version they recommended we use was $15,000 per seat. For our team of 5 developers, that's $75,000! Plus they wanted us to buy architect and project manager versions, which I forget how much those were. I think they were probably just trying to rip us off, since we're part of a large company, they probably figured we have deep pockets. We're probably going to just buy VS at retail and ignore MS's recommendations, which I think ends up around $500 per seat. And then my boss says that we can't afford to switch to Macs.

As far as the story about Solitaire not working, our in-house stuff all works great on 2k and XP, but exactly zero of our applications work on Vista, which means we won't be buying Vista anytime soon. By not working, I mean they don't even launch; and these are mostly just regular, nothing special Win32 apps built in VS. So the company won't be laying out the money to migrate beyond XP until we're absolutely forced to.

Episteme
Feb 1, 2007, 05:32 PM
I vote to a return of multiple platforms where each computer manufacturer championed their own OS. It was a more vibrant industry back then when we had the IBM PC (and compatibles), the Apple Mac, the Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST all vying for marketshare.

I preferred it but we'll not likely ever return to it...

Few could compete with the juggernaut that was PC Compatibility, and Apple, Atari and especially Commodore all suffered some pretty major mismanagement...

I'd really like to see Microsoft merge with Dell, Apple stay with OS X, and HP and Sony either embrace Linux (probably a co-branded Google distribution) or drop out of the market.

That's only serve to push hardware prices higher. Not that'd it'd happen, it doesn't suit Microsoft...

The gaming industry should get wise and start donating to keeping OpenGL viable and then make games that support it so it can be platform agnostic and easily port to the consoles as well. Or...how about an id Software distribution of Linux that optimizes for their latest gaming engine?

I'm at a loss as to why the gaming industry needs to care here. Their major platforms right now are PS2, Wii, Xbox360, PS3 and of course Win32 PC -- and all of those of devtools supplied by the makers. On top of that, there's a whole raft of middleware providers supplying engines etc. that makes the rest platform agnostic anyway.

DeathChill
Feb 1, 2007, 06:37 PM
You mean our dearest Mr. Steve Jobs? Yes, he did!


I assume that's a joke, right? You know that Steve Jobs doesn't design or decide how to market the products. He introduces them, but he's definitely not responsible for 99% of the work that goes into them.

Reverend Wally
Feb 1, 2007, 07:55 PM
A buddy of mine got a new Vista OS PC a couple days ago, and he got up and took a picture of it after 2 days.

Here is the photo....:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/WallyDow/AtypicalWindowsPC.jpg

Bad stuff

:(

FadeToBlack
Feb 1, 2007, 08:23 PM
I really like Apple's 1 OS model. :p

I was just looking at some Vista prices (just because I might want to get it) for all the editions I could buy:
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate UPGRADE Limited Numbered Signature Edition (Signed by Bill Gates)

That's the crap I was referring to in my post. I just don't understand why they have to make everything so ridiculously confusing.

Gotta love the :apple: 1 $129 version approach. Oh yeah, I forgot about the family pack for $199. Still, that's nowhere near as confusing as Microsoft's 20 different versions of Vista.

SheriffParker
Feb 1, 2007, 08:38 PM
I really like Apple's 1 OS model. :p

I was just looking at some Vista prices (just because I might want to get it) for all the editions I could buy:
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate UPGRADE Limited Numbered Signature Edition (Signed by Bill Gates)

Gotta catch 'em all!

Go Picachu! Lightning strike Limited Numbered Signature Edition! It's super rare!

danvdr
Feb 1, 2007, 10:36 PM
From a generally positive Singapore review of Vista (http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/tech/story/0,4136,122512,00.html):

"Should you upgrade now?
If you are happy with your current Windows XP system, and fear your computer may not be fast enough, stick with it.

But if you've always wanted a smoother, sleeker and more Mac-like Windows experience, go for Vista.":p

iW00t
Feb 1, 2007, 11:34 PM
From a generally positive Singapore review of Vista (http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/tech/story/0,4136,122512,00.html):

"Should you upgrade now?
If you are happy with your current Windows XP system, and fear your computer may not be fast enough, stick with it.

But if you've always wanted a smoother, sleeker and more Mac-like Windows experience, go for Vista.":p

I am fairly surprised it is that "favourable". Everything IT related in Singapore is probably a Microsoft solution. Kids program in Visual Studio, games programming is taught in DirectX, government agencies are suckered wholesale into ASP...

mackensteff
Feb 2, 2007, 02:08 AM
I really like Apple's 1 OS model. :p

I was just looking at some Vista prices (just because I might want to get it) for all the editions I could buy:
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade Edition
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 32BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 64BIT OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate UPGRADE Limited Numbered Signature Edition (Signed by Bill Gates)

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9141/52/

coffey7
Feb 2, 2007, 07:34 AM
I bought the home premium version and it was only $150. All you have to do is load windows xp first or 2000 pro then you buy the upgrade version. If you upgrade, vista is still the same if you do a clean install without transfering of any files. Works for me and I saved $80 dollars. I will use Vista for about 4 years and that makes it cost about $37.50 per year. I spend more than that perday with gas and food money.

Xyl
Feb 2, 2007, 08:21 AM
But wait-there's more! Thats excluding the N and K versions for Europe and Korea!

:p Yes there's a whole bunch of others too, International Edition and what not. But those are the versions I could get, that are available to me.

I bought the home premium version and it was only $150. All you have to do is load windows xp first or 2000 pro then you buy the upgrade version. If you upgrade, vista is still the same if you do a clean install without transfering of any files. Works for me and I saved $80 dollars. I will use Vista for about 4 years and that makes it cost about $37.50 per year. I spend more than that perday with gas and food money.

This upgrade trick only works if you already have a license, right? I don't have an XP license lying around. So OEM looks to be the best bet... (yes you can't transfer it, but I doubt I'll have to anyways).

CallistoJag
Feb 2, 2007, 09:21 AM
Must say that Vista is the first version of windows I did not feel compelled to go out and buy, tired of the whole windows thing. Work has none the less got me a copy to trial run. What a waste of space on my macbook :p

epardilla
Feb 2, 2007, 10:34 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/

Haha....

I like how offended he seems to the reporter's questions...
"Q: Does the entire tenor of that campaign bother you, that Mac is the cool guy and PC—
Bill: That’s for my customers to decide."
:D

APPLENEWBIE
Feb 3, 2007, 09:01 AM
From MSNBC Tech section:


By Steven Levy
Newsweek
Updated: 2:25 a.m. PT Feb 3, 2007

“Are you bugged by the Apple commercial where John Hodgman is the PC, and he has to undergo surgery to get Vista??I've never seen it. I don't think the over 90 percent of the [population] who use Windows PCs think of themselves as dullards, or the kind of klutzes that somebody is trying to say they are.

How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade??Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of truth to it.
Does the entire tenor of that campaign bother you, that Mac is the cool guy and PC—?That’s for my customers to decide.
In many of the Vista reviews, even the positive ones, people note that some Vista features are already in the Mac operating system.?You can go through and look at who showed any of these things first, if you care about the facts. If you just want to say, "Steve Jobs invented the world, and then the rest of us came along," that's fine. If you’re interested, [Vista development chief] Jim Allchin will be glad to educate you feature by feature what the truth is. I mean, it’s fascinating, maybe we shouldn't have showed so publicly the stuff we were doing, because we knew how long the new security base was going to take us to get done. Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. So, yes, it took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?”

BuzWeaver
Feb 3, 2007, 09:27 AM
I find it amusing to see Mac Fans squabbling. It seems to be a 'okay' to go after Big Software because its become nearly a past time to go after Goliath's like Microsoft. Yet at the same time as I use my Mac I seem to come across quite a few things that 'don't just work'. I'm talking about little things that are an after thought in Windows, yet are a struggle or requires a plug-in or download for Apple. Not to mention the amount to time I have to research peripherals, applications and software for compatibility.