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View Full Version : Time to rethink our dedication to Apple?




wildmac
Feb 1, 2007, 10:14 AM
It's clear with Job's lust over his iPhone toy, and iTV, and all the little iPods everywhere, that design professionals are not the bedrock of Apple's plans anymore. (the same could be said for the education market). The lack of attention by Apple to the needs of the graphics industry is really wearing on me. Despite the fact that we are the ones who saved Apple's *ss during the dark days in the 90's, and are the only reason Apple retains a toehold in corporate America, Apple seems to be ignoring us.

I'll be the first one to say that graphics are still easier on a Mac, but I really wonder for how long?... If you are a web designer, you already need a PC anyway to test your pages, and I'm just wondering how long before it just makes more sense to produce on a PC instead?... Half of us are using monitors from someone other than Apple, so, how long before the boxes follow?...



devilot
Feb 1, 2007, 10:17 AM
If you are a web designer, you already need a PC anyway to test your pages...I really dunno much about any of this, but I was under the impression that the Intel Macs are capable of running Windows natively. Couldn't you just have a pro Mac machine w/ a partition to boot up Windows to check for compatibility and whatnot? :confused:

shecky
Feb 1, 2007, 10:17 AM
i am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but how exactly do they ignore us?

killmoms
Feb 1, 2007, 10:18 AM
This same tired argument has been repeated for the last four years.

Tell me, what about the iPhone or the iPod has changed OS X? Have they removed features you love and rely on to make your design workflow easier? Has Apple's attention to the consumer electronics market somehow made Windows better?

Why don't you just write an article about how they're "beleagured" already? :rolleyes:

MacBoobsPro
Feb 1, 2007, 10:21 AM
I think its Adobe that needs to pull its finger out and get CS3 out. Then everything will be back to normal.

tobefirst
Feb 1, 2007, 11:05 AM
I think its Adobe that needs to pull its finger out and get CS3 out. Then everything will be back to normal.

Exactly! If the OP claims that Apple is ignoring us, then what would he have to say about Adobe? Are they ignoring us by not releasing native Intel software yet? Not even a UB for CS2 or anything? Oh my gosh, the world is coming to an end!

If anything, the success of the iPod has increased the awareness of the mac platform, leading to more people using it, leading to more development for OS X.

aricher
Feb 1, 2007, 11:24 AM
I agree with MacBoobsPro - my 2007 hardware/software budget for my design team is huge but we're not making any purchases until Adobe comes out with CS3. Once CS3 and new Mac Pros are in the picture we'll be buying a minimum of 12 Mac Pros, LCDs & a ton of software as well. Personally I think this is going to be a great year for pro-level Mac users.

yellow
Feb 1, 2007, 11:27 AM
and are the only reason Apple retains a toehold in corporate America, Apple seems to be ignoring us.

What exactly are they ignoring?

It's fine to post your opinion, but please back it up with some reasoning beyond "because I say so".

janitorC7
Feb 1, 2007, 11:27 AM
Exactly! If the OP claims that Apple is ignoring us, then what would he have to say about Adobe? Are they ignoring us by not releasing native Intel software yet? Not even a UB for CS2 or anything? Oh my gosh, the world is coming to an end!

If anything, the success of the iPod has increased the awareness of the mac platform, leading to more people using it, leading to more development for OS X.

I'm pretty sure that CS2 will be out soom. As for the UB, Photoshop and Dreamweaver work great and Universal Binaries, and have very cool new features

Sorry guys meant CS3, sorry

miniConvert
Feb 1, 2007, 11:32 AM
I guess Parallels is really the best fix for web developers needing access to Internet Explorer. It's still a pain that it isn't just available for OS X though, but it's so meshed into Windows these days it's hardly surprising.

Luckily the move to IE7 improves cross-browser compatibility in my experiences. It plays ball much better than IE6 did and I see far fewer differences in a page rendered in IE7 and Firefox than I used to between IE6 and Firefox. So, as IE7 adoption continues to grow things should get a little easier.

desenso
Feb 1, 2007, 11:32 AM
It's clear with Job's lust over his iPhone toy, and iTV, and all the little iPods everywhere, that design professionals are not the bedrock of Apple's plans anymore. (the same could be said for the education market). The lack of attention by Apple to the needs of the graphics industry is really wearing on me. Despite the fact that we are the ones who saved Apple's *ss during the dark days in the 90's, and are the only reason Apple retains a toehold in corporate America, Apple seems to be ignoring us.

I'll be the first one to say that graphics are still easier on a Mac, but I really wonder for how long?... If you are a web designer, you already need a PC anyway to test your pages, and I'm just wondering how long before it just makes more sense to produce on a PC instead?... Half of us are using monitors from someone other than Apple, so, how long before the boxes follow?...

I suppose if you're catering to a retirement homes and want to test the efficacy of your new virus you may want PC to 'test' your pages, but for the rest of us there's a tool called Parallels. Parallels is lovely because you can run Windows (I know!) as an Application within Mac OS X. Add the new 'Coherence' feature to this and you're seamlessly testing your pages in Internet Explorer within Mac OS X. Problem solved... you can thank me later for the money I just saved you by not having to buy a whole windows machine just to run IE!

Of course, you already know this, and I'm being facetious because I think it serves to mock your inflamatory post. As a web designer, I feel no compulsion WHATSOEVER to switch to a 'PC' because the tools on the Mac remain, without a doubt, superior to the equivalent options in Windows.

tobefirst
Feb 1, 2007, 11:40 AM
I'm pretty sure that CS2 will be out soom. As for the UB, Photoshop and Dreamweaver work great and Universal Binaries, and have very cool new features

I was just trying to point out the fact that Apple has this wonderful hardware sitting in inventory, waiting to be sold, and, perhaps, the real company ignoring designers is Adobe. After all, it's been how long since Apple announced they were moving to Intel? Adobe has been the one slacking...if anyone has.

As for the CS2/CS3 error, there's a lovely feature for that: the edit button. Learn it, use it, love it. (:

Lord Blackadder
Feb 1, 2007, 11:42 AM
I'll be the first one to say that graphics are still easier on a Mac, but I really wonder for how long?... If you are a web designer, you already need a PC anyway to test your pages, and I'm just wondering how long before it just makes more sense to produce on a PC instead?... Half of us are using monitors from someone other than Apple, so, how long before the boxes follow?...

As long as Apple makes computers that meet my needs, I will buy them.

janitorC7
Feb 1, 2007, 11:50 AM
I was just trying to point out the fact that Apple has this wonderful hardware sitting in inventory, waiting to be sold, and, perhaps, the real company ignoring designers is Adobe. After all, it's been how long since Apple announced they were moving to Intel? Adobe has been the one slacking...if anyone has.

As for the CS2/CS3 error, there's a lovely feature for that: the edit button. Learn it, use it, love it. (:

I get what your saying. However take into account that the adobe suite of what like 10 apps that are in the CS series are like millions of lines of code each. and all of these have to be ported from CodeWarrior into XCode to be a a UB. Considering how much work they have to do, plus converting Macromedia's old apps, I think that they are doing a pretty good job. and lets not forget the free beta of the UB for CS2 users, If you ask me they actually seem to be trying to make us happy. and speaking as (and I hope adobe does not get me for this legally) a beta tester for Hanzo (Dreamweaver 9) I can tell you that its much better than 8 and that I;m amazed with the UB speed and the many new features that have been added to it, including much cleaner code.

I get what you are talking about but I'm pretty happy with them.

oh what do you know there is a edit button on here

smueboy
Feb 1, 2007, 12:06 PM
As long as Apple makes computers that meet my needs, I will buy them.

Exactly. And the current and upcoming MacPro line-up certainly seems great (to me, anyway) for the graphics/designer industry. Plus, you can easily run windows for testing; and it makes little difference to your computing experience whether you have an Apple monitor or not.

mkrishnan
Feb 1, 2007, 12:15 PM
Plus, you can easily run windows for testing

*cough* not to mention that any respectable designer developing for the web in Windows needs to be testing on non-Windows clients as well. That argument goes both ways.

smueboy
Feb 1, 2007, 12:28 PM
*cough* not to mention that any respectable designer developing for the web in Windows needs to be testing on non-Windows clients as well. That argument goes both ways.

So everyone should use a mac, in order to easily test on both systems.

:)

RacerX
Feb 1, 2007, 12:28 PM
The lack of attention by Apple to the needs of the graphics industry is really wearing on me. Despite the fact that we are the ones who saved Apple's *ss during the dark days in the 90's, and are the only reason Apple retains a toehold in corporate America, Apple seems to be ignoring us.Dedication to Apple?

Beyond seeing people who are addicted to new releases (constantly asking when are we going to see the next whatever), I don't know of anyone who is unhappy. But even more important, I don't know of anyone who is dedicated to Apple.

I don't buy Apple products because they come from Apple, I buy them because they are the best solution for me. I'm a dedicated Mac user, but I'm not dedicated to a corporation.

Even more important, in the 90s it was much of the graphics industry that bought clones and not Apple computers causing some of Apple's pain. If someone else started making Macs and Apple stopped, I'd be buying from someone else.

More importantly, if I don't care for an Apple product, I don't use it. I use OmniWeb rather than Safari, Curator rather than iPhoto, OmniDictionary and Nisus Thesaurus rather than Dictionary, Create rather than iWork, etc.

I don't see any of the people I know writing Apple a blank check. Infact, most don't follow Apple's day to day stuff until they need something that only Apple supplies... Macs. As long as their Macs are working and they are productive with them, they are happy. When they need something more, there is always something much better being offered by Apple (mainly because they usually go a few years between replacing systems).

I have no idea what exactly you think Apple should be doing or what you feel you are missing.

:rolleyes:

Maybe we could get Jobs to do a monkey dance around the stage during his next keynote shouting "graphics industry, graphics industry, graphics industry!"

:D

FleurDuMal
Feb 1, 2007, 12:31 PM
But by that logic MS have given up on you too. They're also venturing into 'toys' like the Zune and Xbox.

maxrobertson
Feb 1, 2007, 10:33 PM
How exactly are they ignoring us? I mean, they've done a major transition to a different chip architecture that was pretty risky if you think about it. Sure there are some problems now, but those are mostly Adobe's issues and not Apple's (Although it's really ridiculous to think that Adobe could have made a universal binary of CS2, considering the insane amount of legacy code contained there.) If they were still sticking with PowerPC, I'd be pretending they weren't ignoring us, but the fact that Apple has undergone this change shows that the Mac is still at the forefront of their business.

SMM
Feb 1, 2007, 11:10 PM
It's clear with Job's lust over his iPhone toy, and iTV, and all the little iPods everywhere, that design professionals are not the bedrock of Apple's plans anymore. (the same could be said for the education market). The lack of attention by Apple to the needs of the graphics industry is really wearing on me. Despite the fact that we are the ones who saved Apple's *ss during the dark days in the 90's, and are the only reason Apple retains a toehold in corporate America, Apple seems to be ignoring us.

I'll be the first one to say that graphics are still easier on a Mac, but I really wonder for how long?... If you are a web designer, you already need a PC anyway to test your pages, and I'm just wondering how long before it just makes more sense to produce on a PC instead?... Half of us are using monitors from someone other than Apple, so, how long before the boxes follow?...

The only thing clear is your lack of ability to provide substance to your assertions. Your are one major announcement away from having your whole balloon popped.

You should know very well that a major upgrade to FCP has been in the works for over a year. It is one of the best kept secrets at Apple.

LethalWolfe
Feb 2, 2007, 01:51 AM
Quite possibly the lamest attempt at an "Apple doesn't love me" thread to date.


Lethal

Blue Velvet
Feb 2, 2007, 02:08 AM
The OP does have a small point to make. Not in the sense of designers being pushed from the platform, but Apple can't thrive from serving the needs of the pro market alone. Any increase in Apple's relevance bodes well for us as long as they keep making computers.

Still, as someone else has pointed out, we are far more at threat from the neglect of developers and software vendors than Apple. From Adobe's crippling of Mac versions of software (e.g. Acrobat) to Fred Ebrahimi's (Quark) well-known hostility towards the platform.

Personally speaking, assuming the same evolution of Windows, my dedication to this platform would have been sorely tested if OS X hadn't happened when it did.

mlochm
Feb 2, 2007, 04:31 AM
The only thing clear is your lack of ability to provide substance to your assertions. Your are one major announcement away from having your whole balloon popped.

You should know very well that a major upgrade to FCP has been in the works for over a year. It is one of the best kept secrets at Apple.

HAHAHA! This is quite possibly the funniest post on Macrumors- I do hope you were intending this to be funny...

As for the thread, I suppose you can expect the people cruising MACrumors to be a bit defensive about Apple, Macs, Whatever- BUT- The OP makes a point even if it was presented in such a sensational way- I for one have noticed Alot of quality control issues from bith myself and everyone I know concerning new Mac equipment. This is particularly difficult for the pro to forgive, given the reliance they have on their machine- There are a few annoying things about new product announcements recently as well- I think they were a little skimpy with the Airport Extreme, and the iPhone while cool is missing some key features- And while I'm venting- The secrecy regarding the product updates are a little annoying when you consider the rapid turnover of Intel Chips. I think the whole 802.11n situation is rather annoying (why can't I even change out my laptops airport card?- and currently there is a bit of speculation as to whether Apples current 802.11n Airport cards will be compatible with a non Apple 802.11n network...)

I think rather than bashing the OP for not providing any of his own examples, perhaps you should provide a few quams YOU have with apple.
Unless they are absolutely perfect in your eyes- you little fanboy you...

LethalWolfe
Feb 2, 2007, 11:01 AM
I think rather than bashing the OP for not providing any of his own examples, perhaps you should provide a few quams YOU have with apple.
Unless they are absolutely perfect in your eyes- you little fanboy you...
If the OP wouldn't have gone down the drama-queen-martyr road to communicate that he thinks Apple is doing less for the gfx pro today than it did 10 years ago then people would've responded to this thread differently. But he didn't so his attempted rant is blowing up in his face.

Honestly though, how many reactionary, Chicken Little type threads have been started since the announcement of the iPhone? Do we really need another one? And it's not like iPods and iPhones are the first non-desktop/laptop hardware Apple has released (Newton or Pippin anyone?).


Lethal

Lord Blackadder
Feb 2, 2007, 11:16 AM
Honestly though, how many reactionary, Chicken Little type threads have been started since the announcement of the iPhone? Do we really need another one? And it's not like iPods and iPhones are the first non-desktop/laptop hardware Apple has released (Newton or Pippin anyone?).

The Newton and Pippin were pretty controversial products within Apple in their day...Mac users have argued about Apple making non-Mac gadgets for years now.

The iPod's sucess has not ended the debate either, and the recent name change has thrown fuel on the fire. Is Apple going to become a gadget company?

I don't think so, and I agree that a lot of people are getting themselves bent out of shape unecessarily over this.

shecky
Feb 2, 2007, 11:18 AM
as long as iPods, iTV, et all allow apple to be profitable while still making less profitable pro stuff, im fine with it.

SMM
Feb 2, 2007, 12:14 PM
I have been waiting for the pro apps like many others. My primary personal use, and what originally brought me to Apple, is video editing. I have also expanded into motion graphics and audio. In fact, I am planning on being competent in all phases of post production and animation.

So, I was disappointed there was nothing on the WWDC plate for me. However, it is not something I am upset with, or even concerned about. To me, it is far more important to have a prosperous Apple, than just providing for my immediate desires.

The only way Apple can stay on the leading edge of engineering is to have a solid revenue stream. They are not going to do this by focusing solely on a particular market. Silicone Graphics is a great example of a company that tried that and failed.

Right now, Apple has a fantastic amount of diversification. That is important for all of their products and services. Few companies can weather the market fluctuations as well as Apple. When people are not buying computers, they may still be buying consumer electronics. That cashflow is critical to keeping the R&D going.

Many of the products Apple offers, especially the Pro Apps, take a long time to bring to market. If selling iPods, iTV and iPhones provides the revenue to do this, then I surely do not see the issue. I would be far more concerned if the revenue stream was poor. Then they would have to hasten unfinished products out the door, or cut back on features.

LethalWolfe
Feb 2, 2007, 03:54 PM
Mac users have argued about Apple making non-Mac gadgets for years now.

That's part of my point. These "fears" of Apple neglecting its computers have been around for years and years but they've never rung true. Apple hasn't shifted their focus away from computers they have merely expanded it to include stuff besides computers.


Lethal

bearbo
Feb 2, 2007, 04:17 PM
i think the OP has a point.

we know that apple has been doing intensive R&D on iphone, :apple: TV, but how much R&D is apple doing on, say, Macbook Pro, Mac Pro?

i love my macs, but i honestly cannot think many aspect of MBP and MP are being the result of Apple's research and development. i like the form factor and design of the machines, i'm sure that takes a artist to come up with, but within the box of MP, what did apple do?

i'm sure many of you will take offend in my post, but just at least put yourself in my shoes and think about it.

dmw007
Feb 2, 2007, 05:05 PM
If anything, the success of the iPod has increased the awareness of the mac platform, leading to more people using it, leading to more development for OS X.

Quite true, the overwhelming success of the iPod and the move to Intel chips in Macs is causing more and more people (not necessarily the business world though) to make the switch. :)

Mookamoo
Feb 2, 2007, 05:30 PM
My computer is great, the OS is great and have used a Mac since 1991, yet I feel deflated by Apple's latest moves. My dedication is leaking away. Why is that?

On one hand they are pushing into other markets like comms and TV and are just becoming a global giant just like Microsoft only with shinier gizmos. You can't move for Apple news at the moment and it all seems a little bold and brash. Its become a trend and I don't like being part of trends. Greenpeace are taking swipes at their production methods, law suites about names - thats not the Apple I want to part of.

On the other hand perhaps it's just jealousy. Macs have been the worst kept secret for years and using one meant I was superior. Now everybody seems to getting one so perhaps it's just threatens something inside me? Even my bloody mother AND mother in law have now got macs, in fact my mother has 3! Perhaps I should just shut up and share.

maxrobertson
Feb 2, 2007, 07:38 PM
My computer is great, the OS is great and have used a Mac since 1991, yet I feel deflated by Apple's latest moves. My dedication is leaking away. Why is that?

On one hand they are pushing into other markets like comms and TV and are just becoming a global giant just like Microsoft only with shinier gizmos. You can't move for Apple news at the moment and it all seems a little bold and brash. Its become a trend and I don't like being part of trends. Greenpeace are taking swipes at their production methods, law suites about names - thats not the Apple I want to part of.

On the other hand perhaps it's just jealousy. Macs have been the worst kept secret for years and using one meant I was superior. Now everybody seems to getting one so perhaps it's just threatens something inside me? Even my bloody mother AND mother in law have now got macs, in fact my mother has 3! Perhaps I should just shut up and share.

I agree with your last statement. Being different for difference's sake is pointless.

Moof1904
Feb 2, 2007, 09:14 PM
I'm still PO'd at Adobe for not releasing FrameMaker for OSX. InDesign is a great app but it's not the ideal page layout app for certain types of more structured publishing.

That's really not a criticism of Apple, but I can't help but think that if it was important to Apple it would become more important to Adobe.

SpaceJello
Feb 3, 2007, 01:02 AM
I agree with your last statement. Being different for difference's sake is pointless.

But I wonder how many of original Mac users will get turned off by this increase popularity for Macs? I can't go to a coffee shop nowadays without seeing loads of macbooks or macbooks pro.... and they are students NOT in any industry or fields that really need a mbp.... though I love macs, i always find it overkill to get a mbp when you only use it for word processing.

Actually, with more people using macs, we hope to get better softwares.

djejrejk
Feb 5, 2007, 10:49 AM
It's clear with Job's lust over his iPhone toy, and iTV, and all the little iPods everywhere, that design professionals are not the bedrock of Apple's plans anymore. (the same could be said for the education market). The lack of attention by Apple to the needs of the graphics industry is really wearing on me. Despite the fact that we are the ones who saved Apple's *ss during the dark days in the 90's, and are the only reason Apple retains a toehold in corporate America, Apple seems to be ignoring us.

I'll be the first one to say that graphics are still easier on a Mac, but I really wonder for how long?... If you are a web designer, you already need a PC anyway to test your pages, and I'm just wondering how long before it just makes more sense to produce on a PC instead?... Half of us are using monitors from someone other than Apple, so, how long before the boxes follow?...

I test my pages with my mac,..

If you need some help, im sure that someone could explain it to you

Rychiar
Feb 5, 2007, 01:59 PM
as a designer i now have UB quark 7 and a beta of UB Photoshop CS3 so i am set. Sure The beta has its quarks and doesnt allow 3rd party filters but it gets the job done. Nothing will ever be as fast the OS9 days but nor will i worry of the computer locking up in the middle of some complex design:apple:

mlochm
Feb 11, 2007, 04:38 AM
I test my pages with my mac,..

If you need some help, im sure that someone could explain it to you

You are totally missing the point- you're still using windows, so if apple continues to neglect its pro users, what's to stop you from just switching primarily to a pc if you are already using windows...

Anyway, more importantly- I feel that with all the hype coming from consumer products like the iPod, iPhone, AppleTV, etc. apple should be in top form regarding its computer lines, and most importantly QUALITY CONTROL which is severely slipping. We can get all the 'switchers' in the world, but when you pay a premium for a quality computer it damn well better not come out of the box with a dysfunctional FW800 card, or a whiny fan/HD, or a down key that doesn't flippin work! We've got screens with built in dirt, plastic that stains from normal usage, and a hundred other issues- and before you tell me "1st gen always sux" let me just remind you of the reputation apple loses everytime someone has to return a brand new computer to the apple store so they can fix it! I don't keep it to myself- No one should, but if Apple continues to leave gaps in their quality control someone else will just step in and fill them- Apple is a boutique computer/electronics company that is starting to act a little like wal-mart in some ways, and if the flaws are not pointed out than Apple will assume they can get away with it, and we will lose. Just because you got a mac and you are 'reborn' from your sinful PC ways, does not mean you should defend everything they do. That is not the philosophy that got Apple to where it is today.

EDIT: thanks- I was tired...:o

Apemanblues
Feb 11, 2007, 12:25 PM
The graphics software I use runs pretty much the same on both platforms and has done for some time (Photoshop, Painter and a few 3D apps). I've seen people do amazing work on both platforms equally.

I don't own an iPod, I don't own iTV and I don't plan on getting an iPhone. The only difference about using a Mac is that I have an OS which makes more sense to me. As long as Apple keep making decent computers, a decent OS, and the software I use still supports Macs, then I'll be fine and dandy.

I don't see any of that changing anytime soon, so I don't really see what you are worried about.

iris_failsafe
Feb 28, 2007, 02:47 AM
what about final cut pro, logic pro, motion, dvd studio pro, shake, the fact that maya is now a universal binary or that apple is building final cut exgtreme and leopard is 64bit you dont neede 6 bits for MS Word///