Who'd love a midrange tower?

[kylepro88]

Is it just me of is Apple missing out on some sales by only having the monitor/computer combos, and macmini? I wish Apple would create a tower based machine that would have the same specs as the iMac or something close. Not only could that be a great opportunity for folks who already like their monitor or might be a PC user wanting to convert but it would take away even further the issue that people have about upgrading. iMac can be upgraded sure but to put it into a tower, make it upgradable like a MacPro, keep the price around the same as iMac, and I think Apple would have a winner on their hands. Does anyone else share this idea with me or think it would actually be good for other users willing to convert?

- Kyle

[psychofreak]

Please check the forum for other threads on similar subjects
ADDITION:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=232600&highlight=headless+imac
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=268735&highlight=headless+imac
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=245247&highlight=headless+imac

EDIT: Refined language for bigandy and politeness's sake

[bigandy]

Instead of a potentially offensive post, perhaps a reminder to search the forums before posting a topic would be an idea.

While posting a few links to similar threads is a good idea, I don't really think your tone in the post is.

kylepro88, remember to search before you post! Unless a topic has been dormant for a while, It'll still be possible to add your comments. Of course there's no problem starting a new topic if you feel, after reading previous comments, that there's something new and novel to bring to the community, where you can have a discussion that wouldn't tread on the toes of the previous threads. Hope you enjoy your stay here ;)

[Sun Baked]

Apple did that with a single CPU PowerMac G5, took an iMac G5 and stuffed it in a tower case -- lasted 8 months before Apple killed it.

They cannot do the same thing with the current Intel iMacs -- because it is running on a mobile chipset.

The current Mac Pro is also too expensive to stuff in a consumer machine.

Which leaves introducing a desktop chipset to the iMac, and building a consumer tower off that.

Something that'll happen sometime, much easier these days since Apple isn't paying for entire chipsets from design to manufacture -- just the R&D to put a Intel-sourced chipset in a Mac.

But this requires enough volume for the iMac and Consumer Tower to use a desktop chipset.

Who knows what that volume is -- 250k, 500k, or million units per quarter.

[classof2011]

Before this thread is closed I'm going to say that my idea of a midrange would be...

Dubbed Mac Mini Pro or Mac Pro Mini
C2D processors
2 HDD slots
Up to 4GB RAM
Internal speakers - iMac quality
Requires external LCD
Includes keyboard + mouse
Leopard
$850


Now if I only had Photoshop to create it.

[Jman888]

I would kill for that.. Im in the market soon for a Tower with a core2 and a good videocard. I would get a mini but CoreDuo + Gma = No iMac (AIO + LaptopParts - Upgrade = No) Mac Pro would work but $$$ is a prob.
So a Mac with the specs
2.13 GHZ core2 (Up To 2.66 Core2
1Gig Ram (Up To 4)
x1600 Base (Up To 7900 - x1950XT )
160Gig HD (2 Drives Up 2 500 Gigs)
For a base price of about $799-$899 (What Pc's With same specs are going for about now. See also HP and Dell XPS 410)
Then i would have my Problem solved.
Problem :Want a mac need expandability and upgrades and a decent price.
Im torn between waiting for a Core2 Mini or Just getting a Dell With a 2.4 Core2 and stock card and upgrade to a x1950XT or something.

[gauchogolfer]

Before this thread is closed I'm going to say that my idea of a midrange would be...

Dubbed Mac Mini Pro or Mac Pro Mini
C2D processors
2 HDD slots
Up to 4GB RAM
Internal speakers - iMac quality
Requires external LCD
Includes keyboard + mouse
Leopard
$850


Now if I only had Photoshop to create it.

How many of the hugely-successful iMacs do you think they would still sell if something like this was available? Maybe not enough to offset the risk?

[Jman888]

How many of the hugely-successful iMacs do you think they would still sell if something like this was available? Maybe not enough to offset the risk?

Why? Specs of imac But upgradeable. Normal x1600 is way cheaper then mobile x1600 Conroe is cheper then Mermon GHZ per GHZ and without a screen... Theyed probally make more then they would on the iMac and people into imacs would still get the iMac ..

[gauchogolfer]

Why? Specs of imac But upgradeable. Normal x1600 is way cheaper then mobile x1600 Conroe is cheper then Mermon GHZ per GHZ and without a screen... Theyed probally make more then they would on the iMac and people into imacs would still get the iMac ..

My opinion is that Apple, Inc. is a hugely profitable company with an enormous customer research/marketing department, and if they REALLY thought that something like this would be profitable for the company as a whole, then they would do it. It's not like Apple isn't making the midrange tower to spite its potential customers. These are business decisions.

[Xyl]

Just to be a thorn in the side... :p

I was wishing for the same, but after I thought about it, I found out I actually didn't need something like that.
- If I buy a top model iMac right now, it will last me until I replace my computer.
- I've upgraded parts in my PC, but it really wasn't a necessity. Upgrading the RAM is the most likely, but you can do that in an iMac already.
- I don't care about the monitor being stuck to the computer, because when I thought about it, every single time I've replaced my computer, I've gotten a new monitor with it. Displays are getting cheaper and better every month - and it doesn't feel that great pairing up a brand new computer with some crappy monitor that looks like it was from the ancient times ;) .

And all this is coming from a not-your-average-joe user. I'm in the IT industry and stare at a computer for 8 hours a day (at least), I play games, and I can't stand unworkable and slow computers.

And for those complaining about the video card - hence the need of a tower - I agree that the video card isn't all that great, but that's because Apple doesn't update their products as regularly as others, so it makes the video card look quite bad. When this generation of iMacs first came out, we didn't hear any complaints about the video card back then :rolleyes:. Just wait for the next update which should be coming fairly soon.

Of course, everyone has their own preferences, but the average consumer isn't going to upgrade many parts in their computer other than the RAM....this makes something like the Cube a niche market that doesn't make Apple a lot of money (unlike the Mac Pros), and this money is even less after design costs, etc.

[Jman888]

My opinion is that Apple, Inc. is a hugely profitable company with an enormous customer research/marketing department, and if they REALLY thought that something like this would be profitable for the company as a whole, then they would do it. It's not like Apple isn't making the midrange tower to spite its potential customers. These are business decisions.
Well most people say its because of the whole upgrade thing (Next week x1600 wont be good enough. then what?) but i dunno. But look at pc's 95+ % ARE towers (Well then again 80% of Pc's are under $700 )

[Jman888]

Just to be a thorn in the side... :p

I was wishing for the same, but after I thought about it, I found out I actually didn't need something like that.
- If I buy a top model iMac right now, it will last me until I replace my computer.
- I've upgraded parts in my PC, but it really wasn't a necessity. Upgrading the RAM is the most likely, but you can do that in an iMac already.
- I don't care about the monitor being stuck to the computer, because when I thought about it, every single time I've replaced my computer, I've gotten a new monitor with it. Displays are getting cheaper and better every month - and it doesn't feel that great pairing up a brand new computer with some crappy monitor that looks like it was from the ancient times ;) .

And all this is coming from a not-your-average-joe user. I'm in the IT industry and stare at a computer for 8 hours a day (at least), I play games, and I can't stand unworkable and slow computers.

And for those complaining about the video card - hence the need of a tower - I agree that the video card isn't all that great, but that's because Apple doesn't update their products as regularly as others, so it makes the video card look quite bad. When this generation of iMacs first came out, we didn't hear any complaints about the video card back then :rolleyes:. Just wait for the next update which should be coming fairly soon.

Of course, everyone has their own preferences, but the average consumer isn't going to upgrade many parts in their computer other than the RAM....this makes something like the Cube a niche market that doesn't make Apple a lot of money (unlike the Mac Pros), and this money is even less after design costs, etc.

Wait..
Cube 450Mhz - 1800 64mb Ram
Powermac 1.9Ghz - 1400 256 Ram
OMG PEOPLE DONT LIKE TOWERS!!1

I think something else may have shifted people choice -->$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$<--

[sushi]

I don't see the need for a midrange tower if Apple updated the iMac line so that the following could be upgraded easily:

- RAM (current system is fine)

- HD (Have an easy to open HD slot so that an individual could swap out the HDs.)

- Video card (Or have the option to add a dedicated video card.)

- CPU

To me, the first two are mandatory. The video card would be a great option for gamers. The CPU would be a nice touch.

Not sure how they would do this. Maybe make the iMac easy to open like a clam shell with the RAM, HD and video card easily accessible for changing.

[flopticalcube]

Mini with C2D and a decent (preferably upgradeable) video card. Not much else is needed. Maybe 4gigs instead of 2.

[Jman888]

I don't see the need for a midrange tower if Apple updated the iMac line so that the following could be upgraded easily:

- RAM (current system is fine)

- HD (Have an easy to open HD slot so that an individual could swap out the HDs.)

- Video card (Or have the option to add a dedicated video card.)

- CPU

To me, the first two are mandatory. The video card would be a great option for gamers. The CPU would be a nice touch.

Not sure how they would do this. Maybe make the iMac easy to open like a clam shell with the RAM, HD and video card easily accessible for changing.
imac G4 escue design? Think about it all the parts are easily acsessed in there and fully upgradeable. No more heat probs and you got a full GPU (Cuz iMacs are still using laptop cards)

[Eidorian]

Apple did that with a single CPU PowerMac G5, took an iMac G5 and stuffed it in a tower case -- lasted 8 months before Apple killed it.

They cannot do the same thing with the current Intel iMacs -- because it is running on a mobile chipset.

The current Mac Pro is also too expensive to stuff in a consumer machine.As if Alendale/Conroe is expensive and 945 desktop boards (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Category=20&N=2010200280+1070509907+107171083&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=280) don't exist to use Yonah or Merom.

[ChrisA]

This has got to be the #1 request. Apple must know there are many people waiting for them to make something like this. I'd like to see something 1/2 the specs of the Mac Pro. Just one of those dual core Xeons, 8GB RAM and room for two drives. I'd buy it right now. It could sell at 1/2 the Mac Pro price and double the Mini price. maybe $1,300

[Xyl]

Wait..
Cube 450Mhz - 1800 64mb Ram
Powermac 1.9Ghz - 1400 256 Ram
OMG PEOPLE DONT LIKE TOWERS!!1

I think something else may have shifted people choice -->$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$<--


I don't quite get your reply. But yes, the Cube was tremendously expensive. I don't know the reasons, but if it is because of design costs and staying within their profit margins, I'm not sure Apple could reduce the costs if they did something similar, and more importantly, I don't think think they will want to reduce their margins.

What I'm saying is, for the average consumer, the only thing they will upgrade is the RAM, and you don't need a standalone tower for that. And for that - the iMac will suffice. If I needed additional space, I'd just buy an external drive (average consumers would most likely do the same too, because they don't need to worry about accidentally breaking something - yes they shouldn't worry but they still do).

[Sun Baked]

As if Alendale/Conroe is expensive and 945 desktop boards (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Category=20&N=2010200280+1070509907+107171083&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=280) don't exist to use Yonah or Merom.

You mean you'd really want your gaming PC based on the mobile chipset, instead of the desktop chipset.

[Eidorian]

You mean you'd really want your gaming PC based on the mobile chipset, instead of the desktop chipset.

http://www.math.purdue.edu/~abarreno/holland_plant.jpg

Let's stick to midrange tower and not a gaming machine please...

[Sun Baked]

Let's stick to midrange tower and not a gaming machine please...

The midrange would end up being the gaming tower.

If the past is any example Apple would be hitting a range of $1299-$1999 for the box.

Edit: The last consumer tower (10/2004 to 06/2005) was $1499, but a new midrange tower would likely end up a whole new product line.

[Koodauw]

I would love one, but again I think it is a business decision and nothing more. I'd even settle for a mini with a dedicated GPU, but I know that wouldn't silence the 'upgradable' cries of everyone else.

[sushi]

imac G4 escue design? Think about it all the parts are easily acsessed in there and fully upgradeable. No more heat probs and you got a full GPU (Cuz iMacs are still using laptop cards)
I am thinking in terms of the current iMac line which is my favorite so far.

You can take the current iMac apart but not easily. I would love to see it transformed into what they did with the PowerMacs years ago when they came out with the Quicksilver type models. That would be very cool! :)

[bankshot]

I would love to see it transformed into what they did with the PowerMacs years ago when they came out with the Quicksilver type models. That would be very cool! :)

Yep. I'm typing this on a 2002 QuickSilver that cost me $1200 brand new (bottom of the line, edu discount). It's been (and still is) a fantastic machine. In terms of component pricing, there's no reason why Apple couldn't build a Conroe tower at roughly the same price point. Maybe even a bit cheaper at around $1000 ($999 for the salespeople).

But as others have already said, it's a business/marketing decision. With the obscene profits Apple is posting lately, it's hard to argue that they need to change anything about their strategy. I'd love to see this hypothetical product, but I doubt it'll happen. Too bad.

[sushi]

^^ I think that you might have misunderstood me.

My suggestion is to change the current iMac so that it opens easily for upgrades such as RAM, HD, GPU and maybe the CPU.

Note, I do agree with you on the Quicksilver models. Very nice indeed! :)

[Doraemon]

My suggestion is to change the current iMac so that it opens easily for upgrades such as RAM, HD, GPU and maybe the CPU.

That's not the concept behind an iMac (or the original Macintosh). The concept is, that people don't have to worry about upgradablilty. You buy it, it works just great for a couple of years and then you buy a new one. It's not about swapping the CPU or GPU by yourself. I mean, if you think of the targeted consumer of an iMac, it's not what they can, should or want to do.

[dops7107]

The concept is, that people don't have to worry about upgradablilty. You buy it, it works just great for a couple of years and then you buy a new one. It's not about swapping the CPU or GPU by yourself. I mean, if you think of the targeted consumer of an iMac, it's not what they can, should or want to do.

Guess you're right there - that's Apple's philosophy. If possible, I like stretching the life of computers as much as possible through upgrading - it makes good environmental sense at least, something which Apple has a poor record on (http://www.greenpeace.org/apple/). Just think of the screens you get with the iMacs nowadays - that alone is a shame to have to replace just because the video card is no longer up to scratch. Displays can't keep getting bigger and bigger - people only have so much desk space, so why replace the screen so often?

Mind you, look at MS telling us how we have to have Vista for a decent PC experience, and a whole new computer to enjoy it on... :rolleyes:

[sushi]

That's not the concept behind an iMac (or the original Macintosh). The concept is, that people don't have to worry about upgradablilty. You buy it, it works just great for a couple of years and then you buy a new one. It's not about swapping the CPU or GPU by yourself. I mean, if you think of the targeted consumer of an iMac, it's not what they can, should or want to do.
Understand.

That is why we won't see a mini-tower type Mac. If Apple keeps to this philosophy, they will keep the iMac as it is -- basically non-upgradable -- and the PowerMac as the upgradable version.

[Gosh]

I have to admit that I've changed my mind from thinking Apple should offer a midi tower.

Apple shouldn't risk undermining the all-in-one design philosophy of the iMac as a mainstram model.

The ultimate upgrade would be the processor, but processors are often only as good as their optimized logicboards. Seen so many PC reviews of computers with the same spec giving vastly different speedmarks - there are limts to upgrading and at some point it becomes a new computer!

Should Apple offer a build-your-own kit with Mac OS X for the relatively small number of hobbyists who want to? Maybe!

[sushi]

Just thinking about all this and wonder if a pizza box like the Mac LC would be the way to do this instead of a mini-tower.

As long as it could support a display on top of it, and was easy to open, the pizza box style might be a good option.

What do you think?

[joehack]

Nope! You are not the only one waiting for something between imac and mac pro. Shorty before the last keynote a posted another thread about this.

Core 2 Duo (maybe quad)
up to 8GB RAM
Space for 2 HDs
1 PCIe x16
Onboard grfx (e. g. NV 7300).

Jochen

[Doraemon]

Nope! You are not the only one waiting for something between imac and mac pro. Shorty before the last keynote a posted another thread about this.

Core 2 Duo (maybe quad)
up to 8GB RAM
Space for 2 HDs
1 PCIe x16
Onboard grfx (e. g. NV 7300).

Jochen

What's the point in having a miditower with onboard video? I mean, that's one of the major issues with the Mac mini. If it was not for onboard video, an upgraded Mac mini (larger HDD, more max RAM, C2D) would totally do the job.

[flopticalcube]

Just thinking about all this and wonder if a pizza box like the Mac LC would be the way to do this instead of a mini-tower.

As long as it could support a display on top of it, and was easy to open, the pizza box style might be a good option.

What do you think?

I loved my Quadra 605 but pizza boxes where only good when monitors where big, bulky, desk-eating items. Now they are flat the iMac form is better suited to them. Maybe if the pizza box could be placed on its side and tucked in behind the monitor or hung on the back it would help.

[Grimace]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I don't think the vast majority of people out there upgrade individual components of their computers. When it's not "fast" enough anymore, they buy a new one. People who are on forums like this do like to upgrade, customize, and tweak.

What you're basically saying is, "The Mac Pro is too expensive. If it had a smaller casing and were half the price, I'd buy it."

For the masses, it's not worth it for Apple to do that.

[Grimace]

Also, Apple likes to provide the complete solution - bundling the OS, hardware, and great software. As (arguably) the poster-product for Apple, the iMac includes the monitor too. You buy it, and you don't need to go find a "mac-compatible" monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.

The Mac Mini is designed as a switcher bridge product (according to Apple when I worked for them) - that's why it doesn't have a monitor. The Mac Pro is large enough that you can't slap a monitor on to it easily.

[flopticalcube]

Yes, but it would be nice to have more options when purchasing a mini to have it kitted out the way you want it. I think graphics cards are becoming akin to memory and hard disk (and CPU). Many people WILL want an upgrade or at least a preconfigured option.

[flyinmac]

If Apple produced a nice Tower Mac that was cheaper than the Mac Pro, and comparable to the iMac, they'd have my money.

I want to upgrade from the Mini G4 I have. But, the current Mini is not a substantial enough upgrade for me to invest that kind of money.

The iMac is about right. But, I want to use my own screen. So, I won't buy an iMac. That and I've already had two iMacs with screen issues - both iMac G5 systems. So, I'd rather have my own separate monitor. It's less of an issue if something happens to the monitor. On an iMac, the machine is basically worthless if the monitor dies (unless you want one dead display and one external one on your desk).

The Mac Pro is priced way too high.

So, something comparable to the higher-end iMacs without a screen would be perfect.

[gkarris]

My new Mac Mini (1.66 Core Duo) is great, but I would've like to have something with discreet garphics, and maybe a standard optical drive to upgrade later (so it's all internal) not to mention easily opening it up and upgrading the memory or hard drive. The mini is just not meant for user upgrades, but I didn't want to buy an iMac with a built in monitor (I have a monitor)....

[flyinmac]

but I didn't want to buy an iMac with a built in monitor (I have a monitor)....

Exactly.

If you don't want a built-in monitor, then you have 3 choices:

1) Buy the lowest-end which is over-priced for what it is.

2) Buy the highest-end which is priced beyond most people's budget

3) Buy a PC that won't run the Mac OS X

None of those are really great choices for me.

[Jman888]

Exactly.

If you don't want a built-in monitor, then you have 3 choices:

1) Buy the lowest-end which is over-priced for what it is.

2) Buy the highest-end which is priced beyond most people's budget

3) Buy a PC that won't run the Mac OS X

None of those are really great choices for me.

Seriously. Apples lack of a tower kinda made me mad. I think i'll just buy a pc :(
But mayby OsXx86 will be my saviour (Because you need a Core2 (Or at least SSE3 Cpu) and a compatible GPU (So id get a x1950XT) to do it.) I'd Even buy a mac (Older cheaper one) Just to take my guilt away (A loophole in the older versions of the EULA )

[micsaund]

Heck, I'd be interested in a C2D Mini with room for a full-sized 3.5" hard drive. If it could have a decent dedicated graphics chips, like the iMac or better, that would be icing on the cake. Basically, collapse an iMac, minus the screen, into a double-height Mini case or something similar.

Such a machine would allow the occasional game playing, but for everyday use, the big HD is the one thing that the Mini is missing especially with more and more digital photos, movies, etc. Keeping it running on the mobile chipset (which I think the Mini uses?) is good IMO, as it's lower powered which is needed for a small case without noisy fans.

I guess a Mini++ would be what I'm hoping for :D

[flyinmac]

Yes, the Mini really needs a full-size high-speed hard drive. Those small portable hard drives are just not up to the task for me.

[passedpast]

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/20INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VGXTP1&INT=sstyle-cpuDigitalHome-tophero-VGXTP1

If only OS X could be loaded on this...
I love the keyboard/touchpad combo.
I'm sure a similar HTPC is upcoming from Apple.

[Jman888]

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/20INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VGXTP1&INT=sstyle-cpuDigitalHome-tophero-VGXTP1

If only OS X could be loaded on this...
I love the keyboard/touchpad combo.
I'm sure a similar HTPC is upcoming from Apple.

Thats actually pretty cool looking. Id hit it.

[flyinmac]

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/20INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VGXTP1&INT=sstyle-cpuDigitalHome-tophero-VGXTP1

If only OS X could be loaded on this...
I love the keyboard/touchpad combo.
I'm sure a similar HTPC is upcoming from Apple.

Nice specs. It would be nice if Apple would ship a Mini or similar that could touch this one in specs.

Fully loaded from the start. Very nice.

[flopticalcube]

At $1600 a pop, it better be nice.

[Mac Me Up]

I've been wanting one of these for ages! Not for home, but for work. Think about it, my employer wants to upgrade my computer. They don't want to fork out twice the price of a decent PC to get a fancy mac (think about value for money) so my choices are buy an iMac or get a PC. The iMac is pretty much non-upgradeable and I'm pretty sure has a laptop hard drive in there. So it's slower, more expensive, and less upgradeable. I already have a keyboard mouse and monitor, so the iMac just doesn't make sense. Not only that, but I'd feel like a tool with one where I am.

I agree with most posters, my specs would be:
Core 2 Duo
250GB 7200RPM HD (with room for one more)
Super Drive
Decent ATI or NVIDIA graphics cars (not an integrated Intel one)
1GB of RAM (expandable to at least 4GB)

A bit cheaper than an iMac (because there's no LCD), but faster.

[xUKHCx]

I'm pretty sure has a laptop hard drive in there. So it's slower, more expensive, and less upgradeable.

It is a desktop drive.

3.5" 7200 rpm