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MacRumors
Feb 6, 2007, 09:59 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple announced (http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/) details about this years Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC).

WWDC 2007 will take place from June 11-15th, 2007 in San Francisco, CA:

This June, the center of the Mac universe will be in downtown San Francisco, as developers and IT professionals from around the globe come together for the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference. Don't miss this opportunity to connect with Apple engineers, get a firsthand look at the latest technology, and spend a week getting the kind of inspiration you won't find anywhere else.

Earlier rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/24/wwdc-2007-june-10-15th/) had pegged the date of the conference for this time. Last year's WWDC conference was delayed to August to coincide with Intel Mac Pros and the Leopard Preview.

WWDC is Apple's developer conference and focuses on developer topics. In recent years, with the demise of the summer Macworld expo (http://www.macrumors.com/2005/09/16/macworld-expo-boston-canceled/), WWDC's keynote address has become a venue for significant Apple announcements (http://guides.macrumors.com/WWDC).



peharri
Feb 6, 2007, 10:01 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple announced (http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/) details about this years Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC).

WWDC 2007 will take place from June 11-15th, 2007 in San Francisco, CA:


That means no Leopard until June. There's no other event that would be suitable for demoing Leopard until then (they can't very well show it at a one-off event, because Journalists and industry people, the typical audience for such events, really aren't the right audience for a new Mac OS.)

That's sad, but let's hope they use the time well.

arn
Feb 6, 2007, 10:03 AM
That means no Leopard until June.

I don't think it means that at all. No reason Apple can't launch Leopard at any time in between.

arn

aricher
Feb 6, 2007, 10:04 AM
June 11th huh - I guess technically that's still considered a "spring" release. Hopefully we'll get Leopard before then.

lizard79
Feb 6, 2007, 10:04 AM
So we got a date, when the new macbook pros incl santa rosa will arrive...
cheers..

puckhead193
Feb 6, 2007, 10:05 AM
cool, maybe a release of the iphone

AppliedVisual
Feb 6, 2007, 10:07 AM
So we got a date, when the new macbook pros incl santa rosa will arrive...
cheers..

That's kinda what I'm thinking.... It would be about the right time. As for Leopoard, I think we'll see it at NAB and it will ship end of April along with updated Mac Pro systems and updated Pro applications. Apple can't afford to not have updated, 8-core Mac Pro systems and updated Final Cut Studio / Shake at NAB.

wrldwzrd89
Feb 6, 2007, 10:08 AM
Regardless of when Apple releases Leopard, I think we definitely won't see a preview of Mac OS X v10.6... it would be far too early in development to show off, even at a developer conference.

I hope Apple makes some sort of significant Mac-related announcement between now and when the WWDC keynote ends ;)

Ahheck01
Feb 6, 2007, 10:10 AM
Are we really all that certain that Leopard will be released before then? If so, why?

And also, I don't see why they would use the developers conference to release the iPhone, since there will be no 3rd party development anyway.

-Evan

spicyapple
Feb 6, 2007, 10:13 AM
Maybe they'll finally announce iLife '07. :)

God knows it could use a major upgrade, especially iDVD, which I've been fighting with for the last 5 days.

I think Leopard will be released at WWDC just in time to show off the "secret features" that hooks up with iPhone in some kinky, sexy ways we haven't seen yet. That's my expectation, at least.

Given the June announcement, I think Apple will release new Mac Pros sometime in late February or early March, otherwise the line-up would have gone without a refresh for nearly 10 months!

twoodcc
Feb 6, 2007, 10:15 AM
well, it starts the day after my birthday :p , i knew they would wait so i could celebrate it first, then they can have my attention :D

looking forward to it though! very glad it's in June and not August this time:cool: :apple:

Warbrain
Feb 6, 2007, 10:18 AM
cool, maybe a release of the iphone

No. It's a consumer item. Maybe an iPhone development software announcement, but not the iPhone itself.

CJD2112
Feb 6, 2007, 10:28 AM
Not to be Debbie Downer, but June??? Leopard has been taking quite a long time, Steve Jobs' "Top Secrets" had better blow the pants off everyone. I feel like this is Windoze 2007/Longhorn/Vista all over again... :p

iJawn108
Feb 6, 2007, 10:31 AM
I'm hearing that iWife '07 with iCook and iClean bundled with it :p JKJKJK

I'm itching for new apple **** to buy, hurry up and release it :(

RichP
Feb 6, 2007, 10:33 AM
You guys are too much... WWDC is for technologies developers are GOING to develop for, not what they have already worked on. Leopard and its new tech as already been shown, its old hat for this conference.

Expect to see "OSX Mobile/Lite/Etc" the talk of WWDC. Its iPhone release time; the new platform will be available then. (Otherwise, they would have to release iPhone developer kits) I honestly dont believe there will be NO 3rd party apps for the phone, Apple wants to make sure there are just no half-baked 3rd party apps.

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 10:35 AM
You guys are too much... WWDC is for technologies developers are GOING to develop for, not what they have already worked on. Leopard and its new tech as already been shown, its old hat for this conference.

Expect to see "OSX Mobile/Lite/Etc" the talk of WWDC. Its iPhone release time; the new platform will be available then. (Otherwise, they would have to release iPhone developer kits) I honestly dont believe there will be NO 3rd party apps for the phone, Apple wants to make sure there are just no half-baked 3rd party apps.

Q: Whats the difference between half baked iPhone apps and crap OSX apps?

A: One may crash your phone and miss a phone call ( fairly unlikely ) and the other, may cause ( unsaved ) data loss on your Mac.

A: Little difference.

IMO, Apple's line is a poor excuse to limit 3rd party apps.

wrldwzrd89
Feb 6, 2007, 10:41 AM
Q: Whats the difference between half baked iPhone apps and crap OSX apps?

A: One may crash your phone and miss a phone call ( fairly unlikely ) and the other, may cause ( unsaved ) data loss on your Mac.

A: Little difference.

IMO, Apple's line is a poor excuse to limit 3rd party apps.
Personally, I think the reason Apple's limiting 3rd party apps isn't because they want to, but because they have to due to not having a SDK ready for the iPhone. This will hopefully be rectified at WWDC.

I agree with your reasoning, and I think Apple fully wants to encourage 3rd party iPhone development. That's kind of hard to do without a SDK.

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 10:44 AM
Personally, I think the reason Apple's limiting 3rd party apps isn't because they want to, but because they have to due to not having a SDK ready for the iPhone. This will hopefully be rectified at WWDC.

I agree with your reasoning, and I think Apple fully wants to encourage 3rd party iPhone development. That's kind of hard to do without a SDK.

Good point. Once they have the SDK ready, I'm pretty sure it'll be plugged into GCC ( or whatever XCode uses these days ) and plugins IDE helpers for XCode.

However, that does leave out Windows iPhone development - unless they make a distribution with iPhone SDK + GCC.

ogun7
Feb 6, 2007, 10:45 AM
I think it'll be mostly a demonstration of new (and as yet unheard of) features in Leopard and some crazy developer's tool related to new features in Santa Rosa. I don't think we'll be amazed at hardware announcements. LED MacBook Pros?

Xeem
Feb 6, 2007, 10:45 AM
Jobs' iPhone keynote was great and all, but I really hope WWDC 07 has enough actual Mac coverage to make up for the huge void of Macintosh news at Macworld.

Rocketman
Feb 6, 2007, 11:02 AM
I am going to make predictions of WWDC (or before) announcements. 2/3 of these.

1. Mac-Mini C2D (64 bit accross the Mac product line claim validated)

2. iLife/iWork/FCP/Logic updates

3. Leopard 10.5.0 in time to get a 10.5.1 in WWDC attendee hands.

4. An app to run Windows apps without Windows installed.

5. ATN (iPhone) developers kit and process to become a "trusted app".

6. MacPro incremental upgrade and BTO feature additions.

7. MacPro Octo with Multimedia's SS chipset, and a CS3 bundle option.

8. MacBookPro 15 with Santa Rosa, 8gb memory capacity, LCD backlit screen and 802.11n/Edge BTO option, possible wimax BTO option.

9. Consumer SAN.

And one more thing . . . .

10. iMac Quadcore.

Wish me luck!

Rocketman

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 11:03 AM
Make it so
!!

I am going to make predictions of WWDC (or before) announcements. 2/3 of these.

1. Mac-Mini C2D (64 bit accross the Mac product line claim validated)

2. iLife/iWork/FCP/Logic updates

3. Leopard 10.5.0 in time to get a 10.5.1 in WWDC attendee hands.

4. An app to run Windows apps without Windows installed.

5. ATN (iPhone) developers kit and process to become a "trusted app".

6. MacPro incremental upgrade and BTO feature additions.

7. MacPro Octo with Multimedia's SS chipset, and a CS3 bundle option.

8. MacBookPro 15 with Santa Rosa, 8gb memory capacity, LCD backlit screen and 802.11n/Edge BTO option, possible wimax BTO option.

9. Consumer SAN.

And one more thing . . . .

10. iMac Quadcore.

Wish me luck!

Rocketman

ClimbingTheLog
Feb 6, 2007, 11:08 AM
cool, maybe a release of the iphone

If it's a closed platform come June they should expect a fruiting.

No. It's a consumer item. Maybe an iPhone development software announcement, but not the iPhone itself.

Jobs did a MacWorld Keynote with no Mac announcements. One would think the audience would have cared.

Personally, I think the reason Apple's limiting 3rd party apps isn't because they want to, but because they have to due to not having a SDK ready for the iPhone. This will hopefully be rectified at WWDC.

I agree with your reasoning, and I think Apple fully wants to encourage 3rd party iPhone development. That's kind of hard to do without a SDK.

But it's not going to be released until June. If they expected to have an SDK they could have said so, or if they thought it would have been ready later they could have said, "we don't have an SDK yet but we're working on it." Instead they said, "it's a closed platform." I think that really means they want a cut of each app sale through iTunes and we'll hear more about that in June. It'll be touted as how easy it is to market and distribute your apps to customers. Apple only takes 20%.

I think I'll skip WWDC this year unless a good Mac track is announced. The past few years it's been "pony up $4K to see what we might be talking about". That's nice if you're in town and your employer is paying I guess.

ChrisA
Feb 6, 2007, 11:10 AM
Q: Whats the difference between half baked iPhone apps and crap OSX apps?


We don't know how "stripped down" the "mobile OS X" is. What if it lacks the concept of file and process ownership and user accounts? What if the iPhone hardware lacks an MMU (Memory managment unit) If so then a buggy application could not only crash the phone but take out some system files turrning the iPhone into a brick that needs to be sent back for service.

You say "unlikely" for some random bug to take out the firmware in flash. Yes. But what about Trojans? If anyone can make software, many people will and idiots will install junk on their phones. If the OS is as stripped down as above than security is imposable, not just hard but imposable. You can't let random software run on such a system

My guess is that they will announce a developer program. That is a system where people can develop software and then hand it over the Apple for testing and distribution or perhaps Apple will allow certain shops that have very good and well documented processes in place to do their own testing.

a Phone is different then a computer. People ecpect phones to work 100% for years. Phines are also "real time" devices. Here is a pretty good introduction to why a phjone is not a computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system

Bobthemonkey
Feb 6, 2007, 11:11 AM
Predictions:

If Stoakley Seaburg is looking for a late 07 release then:
8 Core Mac Pro (no S/S) announced at NAB along with FCP Shipping by WWDC. S/S MPros at Macworld 08

If S/S is going to be earlier then 8Core with SS announced at WWDC.

Lepoard to co-incide (whether WWDC or not) with C2D minis - first consumer company shipping all 64-bit machines.

Santa Rosa MBP at WWDC, with Santa Rosa MB before holidays.

Santa Rosa based iMacs (new form factors -maybe) by holidays.

Nym
Feb 6, 2007, 11:14 AM
Humm, I vote for Leopard in April, June is way too long IMO (I wish at least).

Anyway, the iPhone WILL have 3rd party apps, but it will be a closed system, Apple decides which 3rd party apps are "good enough" or "stable enough" to be included in their Phone. The thing is, this isn't strange at all, they control the iPod in the same way and they haven't let us down so... I figure they'll make wise choices regarding this issue. Have a little faith :)

lukeisme09
Feb 6, 2007, 11:16 AM
i just want to know what ever happened to February 20 :confused:

dushkin
Feb 6, 2007, 11:23 AM
Here's a little recap of my opinions:

Possibility: Leopard
Yes because.. It's a major thing. Spring 2007.
No because.. they might have rush the release. They might release it earlier, due to Vista release.

Possibility: iPhone
Yes because.. They already said it's going to be released in June.
No because.. They already announced it (you don't announce a product twice).

Possibility: New machines
Yes because.. approaching end of cycle by then. New hardware.
No because.. not really news for developers unless it's a whole generation of Mac Pros or xserves (not a speed bump).

Possibility: SATA Xserve
Yes because.. we're pretty damn sure that it exists. WWDC is for devs, thus Xserve.
No because.. no "wow" effect.

Possibility: Ultra portable
Yes because.. there's a need for one. There's some rumors on one. It sort of appeals to developers.
No because.. we don't know for sure that Apple's working on one. Might also "require" a whole new generation of portables to go with.

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 11:48 AM
iPhone is a smartphone. And smartphones can do a lot of what a regular computer can do.


a Phone is different then a computer. People ecpect phones to work 100% for years. Phines are also "real time" devices. Here is a pretty good introduction to why a phjone is not a computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system
[/QUOTE]

No buggy piece of software has ever bricked any smartphone that I know of. Why should OSX mobile be any different?

Your description of such a mobile OSX is one that should never be put in a phone - it simply would not be ready for primetime.

The words "Extremely dodgy" comes to mind. Don't touch with a barge pole.

We don't know how "stripped down" the "mobile OS X" is. What if it lacks the concept of file and process ownership and user accounts? What if the iPhone hardware lacks an MMU (Memory managment unit) If so then a buggy application could not only crash the phone but take out some system files turrning the iPhone into a brick that needs to be sent back for service.

You say "unlikely" for some random bug to take out the firmware in flash. Yes. But what about Trojans? If anyone can make software, many people will and idiots will install junk on their phones. If the OS is as stripped down as above than security is imposable, not just hard but imposable. You can't let random software run on such a system


Every other smartphone OS has this concern too - but they don't restrict third party software. Instead they improve the security features, for example, Symbian 9.



My guess is that they will announce a developer program. That is a system where people can develop software and then hand it over the Apple for testing and distribution or perhaps Apple will allow certain shops that have very good and well documented processes in place to do their own testing.


That will be very expensive - who do you think will pay for Apple's QA time? Apple or the developer? Answer - the developer. Symbian has a similar programme - EXCEPT - its only required if an application requires sufficient priviledges ( which are very few and far beween ). Your run of the mill application won't require this.

Additionally - making this mandatory for ANY iphone app will rule out hobby shareware and most certainly freeware / opensource developers.

Digital Skunk
Feb 6, 2007, 11:49 AM
Maybe they will announce that the iPhone will be unlocked and will be compatible with someone (anybody) other than Cingular. (at least Sprint) and we can get one without that crap contract.:D

Rocketman
Feb 6, 2007, 11:53 AM
Here's a little recap of my opinions:

Possibility: Leopard
Yes because.. It's a major thing. Spring 2007.
No because.. they might have rush the release. They might release it earlier, due to Vista release.

Possibility: iPhone
Yes because.. They already said it's going to be released in June.
No because.. They already announced it (you don't announce a product twice).

Possibility: New machines
Yes because.. approaching end of cycle by then. New hardware.
No because.. not really news for developers unless it's a whole generation of Mac Pros or xserves (not a speed bump).

Possibility: SATA Xserve
Yes because.. we're pretty damn sure that it exists. WWDC is for devs, thus Xserve.
No because.. no "wow" effect.

Possibility: Ultra portable
Yes because.. there's a need for one. There's some rumors on one. It sort of appeals to developers.
No because.. we don't know for sure that Apple's working on one. Might also "require" a whole new generation of portables to go with.

I like your bipolar style BTW.

I have said since my first post about Leopard releases they would release it "early" in Spring 2007. So around March 21 or so. They need to get 10.5.0 out and keep going full speed ahead on back channel bug fixes and feature enhancements so when you do your software update to 10.5.1 you get a stable system and interesting "new" features.

On new hardware it is a cinch you will see Mac-Mini C2D, MacBookPro15, and a quiet update to X-serve and RAID SATA/SAS.

As for the ultraportable, I have a different view. I think it will be a super-iPhone (ATNN)(Apple Tablet Not Nano) with many of the iPhone features PLUS. Bigger screen, better antennas, larger storage, etc. I am not expecting something along the lines of a PowerBook 12". I do expect to see the bottom access CD. I think it will have fullscreen and touchscreen.

I could be wrong, but I was not wrong about ATN.

The ATN announcement will also announce 2-3 additional killer apps.

Rocketman

donlphi
Feb 6, 2007, 12:08 PM
My Prediction For WWDC(for what it's worth):

iFridge (with developers kit and ice tray)

iChair (not to be confused with High Chair)

And one more thing...

Burt Reynolds comes out with John Mayer to sing a song, probably Eastbound and Down from Smokey in the Bandit.

Burt Reynolds or not, it's not going to be Leopard because that will be released sooner... I PRAY. Then again, am I really going to be more productive with a never version of OS X? I always install my new OS, then just hop on Safari to check out these rumor sites.

OH WELL.

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 12:18 PM
The fact that Apple doesn't even mention Leopard in this initial announcement tells me it will be out before the WWDC07.

dushkin
Feb 6, 2007, 12:19 PM
I like your bipolar style BTW.

Thanks.

I have said since my first post about Leopard releases they would release it "early" in Spring 2007. So around March 21 or so. They need to get 10.5.0 out and keep going full speed ahead on back channel bug fixes and feature enhancements so when you do your software update to 10.5.1 you get a stable system and interesting "new" features.

When would you expect .5.1 to come out then?

On new hardware it is a cinch you will see Mac-Mini C2D, MacBookPro15, and a quiet update to X-serve and RAID SATA/SAS.

Though that's not stuff that can/should be presented in WWDC.

As for the ultraportable, I have a different view. I think it will be a super-iPhone (ATNN)(Apple Tablet Not Nano) with many of the iPhone features PLUS. Bigger screen, better antennas, larger storage, etc. I am not expecting something along the lines of a PowerBook 12". I do expect to see the bottom access CD. I think it will have fullscreen and touchscreen.

A Tablet Mac? There's quite a need for one and there's already a similar product, the ModBook, though the price is quite a problem Hopefully Apple will be able to produce something more affordable.

I could be wrong, but I was not wrong about ATN.

The ATN announcement will also announce 2-3 additional killer apps.

Rocketman

gugy
Feb 6, 2007, 12:21 PM
WWDC IMHO might mean:
new octo-core MacPro's with new enclosure designs.
new Cinema displays with new enclosure designs.
new Cinema display 40"+

Maybe all the above could happen at NAB, but I have the feeling Apple will wait. I think NAB will be about mostly Final Cut Studio apps.

Leopard, I believe will be here in April alongside Adobe CS3.

I would love to see the widescreen video ipod with 120gig by then. I hope it happens soon.

peharri
Feb 6, 2007, 12:21 PM
I don't think it means that at all. No reason Apple can't launch Leopard at any time in between.

arn

Do you really think Apple would quietly release Leopard?

(Maybe it'll be in Software Update...)

sdhollman
Feb 6, 2007, 12:22 PM
Yeah what happened to Feb 20! I hope I do not have to wait until then for my new MacPro!

Anyone hear anything on when they are coming, any Mac news for that matter?

:(

aafuss1
Feb 6, 2007, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't expect a Logic update at WWDC-it's a music app. I remember v 7 being announced back in September 2004.

The Scotsman
Feb 6, 2007, 12:24 PM
Hey guys, going to throw my hat in the ring with my predictions what da ya think!:

1:Leapord/ilife07/iwork07 will already be released by June wwdc. Therefore allowing:
2:New Imac product line to be announced.
3:New Mac mini line to be announced.

And on a tangent maybe:

4:New true video iPod.

I would also like to think rumors of April iPhone launch are true but maybe full spec iPhone will be launched at wwdc07 with the rumored missing apps which I think are iwork.

What do you guys think. I could list more but when does Mr Jobs anounce more than three products at any keynote speech.

peharri
Feb 6, 2007, 12:25 PM
The fact that Apple doesn't even mention Leopard in this initial announcement tells me it will be out before the WWDC07.

Maybe they've cancelled Leopard ;-)

(I mean, seriously, all those suggesting it'll be out before WWDC: Is Leopard so boring that Jobs wouldn't want to demonstrate its new features? Was the preview at '06 genuinely everything? I really hope not.)

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 12:26 PM
They'll do what they have done for every other OSX release that arrived outside of any Mac World / Developer conference.

Do you really think Apple would quietly release Leopard?

(Maybe it'll be in Software Update...)

p0intblank
Feb 6, 2007, 12:27 PM
This is great news! I'm glad it is not late this year. The Intel transition is complete so now Apple can just take their time. :)

gugy
Feb 6, 2007, 12:31 PM
Is Leopard so boring that Jobs wouldn't want to demonstrate its new features? Was the preview at '06 genuinely everything? I really hope not.)

My friend Apple at any moment can call a special event to launch Leopard.
I am pretty sure this is what is going to happen.

WWDC will be focus on hardware announcements for the professional folks.

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 12:40 PM
My friend Apple at any moment can call a special event to launch Leopard.
I am pretty sure this is what is going to happen.

WWDC will be focus on hardware announcements for the professional folks.

While that's partially true the WWDC07 will more than likely concentrate on Mac OS 10.5 and a forward look at he new OS based on the Unix ZFS and associated technologies.with a couple pieces of Pro hardware thrown in.


I'm guessing we see Leopard around April like I've been saying.And I do believe there really are some hidden features of Leopard not shown yet.

Rocketman
Feb 6, 2007, 12:45 PM
Predictions:

Lepoard to co-incide (whether WWDC or not) with C2D minis - first consumer company shipping all 64-bit machines.


Computers not machines. Unlikely iPhone is 64 bit. Please correct/surprise me. The claim will be true for a few minutes/days until iPhone ships :(

Rocketman

The Scotsman
Feb 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
While that's partially true the WWDC07 will more than likely concentrate on Mac OS 10.5 and a forward look at he new OS based on the Unix ZFS and associated technologies.with a couple pieces of Pro hardware thrown in.


I'm guessing we see Leopard around April like I've been saying.And I do believe there really are some hidden features of Leopard not shown yet.

I agree. The latest seed of leapord sounds like it is nearly ready for launch. The reason I think jobs has not announced a special event is because he genuinely did not know when it would be ready and did not want to launch it till it was 100% ready and also did not want to work to time constraints to ensure nothing was overlooked. I think an event end of March or April will see the launch of leapord with unknown apps to make our and microsoft vista user jaw bounce off the floor.

Romanesq
Feb 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
Maybe they'll finally announce iLife '07. :)

God knows it could use a major upgrade, especially iDVD, which I've been fighting with for the last 5 days.

I think Leopard will be released at WWDC just in time to show off the "secret features" that hooks up with iPhone in some kinky, sexy ways we haven't seen yet. That's my expectation, at least.

Given the June announcement, I think Apple will release new Mac Pros sometime in late February or early March, otherwise the line-up would have gone without a refresh for nearly 10 months!

Don't know about iLife, but I agree with you on the tie in between Leopard and the iPhone at WWDC. My understanding is that there is an anonymous application and when it gets closer to full launch we'll learn more about it.

Apple has another trick up their sleeve. The iPhone is going to be huge. Here's another reason why:

Cingular is going to change their rate structure very shortly and give consumers a 50% overall reduction. It will come out very soon. :eek:

It'll be another boon to Apple before launch. :p

MacsAttack
Feb 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
Maybe they've cancelled Leopard ;-)

(I mean, seriously, all those suggesting it'll be out before WWDC: Is Leopard so boring that Jobs wouldn't want to demonstrate its new features? Was the preview at '06 genuinely everything? I really hope not.)

Given the complete lack of any Mac-related product since the comming of the phone, you've got to wonder... However if Apple shows of the final Leopard at WWDC, then it is not going to ship for at least 6 to 8 weeks after that. Which would make it very late. Not a goof thing after publicaly poakin fun at Vista. If Leopard is shipping by WWDC then you are looking at a late April (24th?) launch - which just happens to match the more balanced estimates people have been making.

Steve will most certainly talk about how rapid the uptake of Leopard has been (with a keynote presentation to prove it).

WWDC is for developers, to I suspect it will be the iPhone dev kit and applications validation process that will be the main feature.

Porchland
Feb 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
4. An app to run Windows apps without Windows installed.


This has been on my list of dream features ever since the announcement two years ago that Apple would switch to Intel chips.

I don't want Windows and OSX on my machine, one for Windows apps and the other for Mac apps. I just want Outlook (not Entourage) and WordPerfect (don't ask) to run on my Mac exactly as they do on my PC.

The would effectively remove the only reason many people have for keeping a Windows computer around.

MacinDoc
Feb 6, 2007, 12:53 PM
This has been on my list of dream features ever since the announcement two years ago that Apple would switch to Intel chips.

I don't want Windows and OSX on my machine, one for Windows apps and the other for Mac apps. I just want Outlook (not Entourage) and WordPerfect (don't ask) to run on my Mac exactly as they do on my PC.

The would effectively remove the only reason many people have for keeping a Windows computer around.
Then you're looking for CrossOver Mac (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/) (depending on the version of WP you are using, at least one version is not compatible).

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
Its called WINE.

Apple could well contribute towards this project and integrate it into OSX.

I very much doubt Apple would start from scratch - way too much effort. Very much along the lines they did for Webkit - that came from Konq ( KDE browser ).


4. An app to run Windows apps without Windows installed.

guzhogi
Feb 6, 2007, 12:56 PM
I'd like to go, but don't know if I can afford it. Since I'm the computer tech at an elementary school, maybe the district would pay for part of the cost? Would be cool. :cool:

Rocketman
Feb 6, 2007, 12:57 PM
Apple has another trick up their sleeve. The iPhone is going to be huge. Here's another reason why:

Cingular is going to change their rate structure very shortly and give consumers a 50% overall reduction. It will come out very soon. :eek:

It'll be another boon to Apple before launch. :p

I have been watching the cellular rate plans AT&T has been announcing. They announced free in-network calling systemwide. They have a family plan now similar to Verizon. All your cellular enabled computers and phones on one bill and service pool?

AT&T does not pre-announce technology deployments, but edge 1.0 has been out for, what, 5 years now? I wonder what EDGE 2.0 will bring?

Cellular is still a deal where particular locales are simply better with one provider over another, but there has been talk of the systems interacting more to provide better coverage for all their existing customers to reduce tendency to switch, making the sales proposition more sticky. I wonder if that initiative has gotten any traction yet? It would make all carriers a form of MVNO.

I don't get cellular trade mags. But what you see in IEEE Spectrum is exciting as 802.16 wimax is real and being deployed.

Rocketman

Porchland
Feb 6, 2007, 12:58 PM
Maybe they will announce that the iPhone will be unlocked and will be compatible with someone (anybody) other than Cingular. (at least Sprint) and we can get one without that crap contract.:D

There have been numerous news reports that the deal with Cingular/AT&T is exclusive for (depending on what you read) anywhere from two to five years, so that's a big NO on the unlocked phone. Plus, why would Apple announce the iPhone deal as exclusive to Cingular/AT&T just to undo that at WWDC?

shrimpdesign
Feb 6, 2007, 12:58 PM
Not to be Debbie Downer, but June??? Leopard has been taking quite a long time, Steve Jobs' "Top Secrets" had better blow the pants off everyone. I feel like this is Windoze 2007/Longhorn/Vista all over again... :p

Oh please.

Vista took Microsoft 6 years, counting from the release of XP. We've been waiting a little less than 2 years for Leopard.

It's not like Apple even missed a deadline like Microsoft did, Apple said Spring 2007, and as far as anyone knows, it's coming in Spring 2007.

Whiny baby.

The Scotsman
Feb 6, 2007, 01:00 PM
Does anybody know if there is a site that gives you the lowdown on wwdc keynote speeches for the last 2-3 years. Might give us an idea if there is any patern in wwdc launches. Am i right in saying last year leapord was first previewed at wwdc. or was it a special event after the wwdc. I was in australia traveling so not sure.

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 01:04 PM
Vista, as well as being a software development disaster is a significant change from XP -> Vista.

However, there will be lesser changes between OSX 10.4 and 10.5.

Apple's development is more of an incremental style, where as microsoft has been much more than 'incremental' - I'm talking about Windows 98 -> XP -> Vista.

So, its no wonder Apple can push new versions of OSX out the door quicker. Apple aren't being as ambitious as microsoft ( which is a Good Thing, IMO ).

Personally, I got really really fed up of Apple's 15 month-ish OSX releases - I'm glad there has been a longer period between 10.4 and 10.5. It got too much. Yes, I didn't have to upgrade, but unlike microsoft who keep their apps backwards compatible, Apple do not ( i.e., iLife, Safari etc ), so therefore I would be able to use the latest and greatest.



Oh please.

Vista took Microsoft 6 years, counting from the release of XP. We've been waiting a little less than 2 years for Leopard.

It's not like Apple even missed a deadline like Microsoft did, Apple said Spring 2007, and as far as anyone knows, it's coming in Spring 2007.

Whiny baby.

Porchland
Feb 6, 2007, 01:10 PM
Then you're looking for CrossOver Mac (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/) (depending on the version of WP you are using, at least one version is not compatible).

Thanks! I didn't realize such an animal was already on the market for running Windows apps on a Mac.

The fact that it's out there, though, makes me think it's even more likely that Apple will incorporate the feature into Leopard. Widgets and Cover Flow were already available in the market before Apple added the functionality to OSX (widgets) and iTunes (Cover Flow).

arn
Feb 6, 2007, 01:19 PM
Does anybody know if there is a site that gives you the lowdown on wwdc keynote speeches for the last 2-3 years. Might give us an idea if there is any patern in wwdc launches. Am i right in saying last year leapord was first previewed at wwdc. or was it a special event after the wwdc. I was in australia traveling so not sure.

Linked from the article:

http://guides.macrumors.com/WWDC

Avatar74
Feb 6, 2007, 01:26 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility that Leopard's delays may have something to do with the potential emergence of a multitouch Mac?

After seeing the Jeff Han demonstration at TED, and the iPhone, and noticing the feature sets in Leopard being more and more inclined toward a three-dimensional UI environment, I spoke with a former Apple engineer who interacted with vendors, developers, customers, etc. as part of their product development.

It's a foregone conclusion in his and my mind that Apple is testing working prototypes of a 3-D user interface on a multi-touch tablet Mac. It's just a question of when they'll be ready. Their product development cycles are, according to him, about two years.

I think iPhone is a tactical product in a larger business strategy seeking to leap way ahead of Microsoft and completely redefine, again, the way people use computers. And while I'm very skeptical of the possibility, I do find some suggestions in Leopard's known features (like time machine, cover flow, spaces, etc.) that they may be closer to launching a multitouch Mac than anyone could anticipate.

They certainly surprised the world with the Intel-ready dual binaries of OS X which analysts thought would take another two to three years just to develop and test AFTER Apple announced plans to move to Intel processors.

Jwalker9
Feb 6, 2007, 01:28 PM
Cingular is going to change their rate structure very shortly and give consumers a 50% overall reduction. It will come out very soon. :eek:


Okay, off-topic question for you guys
I have been a verizon customer for the past few years, but my family contract just expired on the 2nd. My wife understands that I have to have the iphone and thus we have to switch to Cingular. My question is, should i continue with Verizon under no contract for the next few months before the iphone, or should i go ahead and switch to cingular now so that i can get my wife a new phone and me a free one to tide me over til June? Shes got the crappiest phone on the market and i feel bad making her wait another 5 months for another one when if it werent for the iphone on cingular, she could have a new one now. Any advice on when to switch? If they are rumored to discount service prices, that would make a big difference.
Thanks:apple:

Avatar74
Feb 6, 2007, 01:33 PM
Okay, off-topic question for you guys
I have been a verizon customer for the past few years, but my family contract just expired on the 2nd. My wife understands that I have to have the iphone and thus we have to switch to Cingular. My question is, should i continue with Verizon under no contract for the next few months before the iphone, or should i go ahead and switch to cingular now so that i can get my wife a new phone and me a free one to tide me over til June? Shes got the crappiest phone on the market and i feel bad making her wait another 5 months for another one when if it werent for the iphone on cingular, she could have a new one now. Any advice on when to switch? If they are rumored to discount service prices, that would make a big difference.
Thanks:apple:

Well, waiting to switch might allow you to finagle a better deal. Once Cingular has you they have you... and you don't have the bargaining power of being a customer they want to pull away from being with their competition.

I just don't know how much bargaining power you'll have on the iPhone given the unusual particulars of the Apple-Cingular deal.

guzhogi
Feb 6, 2007, 01:34 PM
I'm the kind of person who feels that sometimes you have to break backwards compatibility to move forward, but also feel changing something just for the sake of change is stupid. If it ain't broken, don't fix it unless the benefits far outweigh the costs.

One thing I'd like to see is an operating system built from scratch. Don't use any old libraries or anything. I'm sure a lot of software libraries, SDKs, whatever, haven't changed much since they were created. Just in the last 5 years (maybe not even), we've gotten multiple graphics cards set up in SLI mode, multi-core 64-bit procs, hi-def video & audio, cable/dsl modems and a whole lot of stuff. I wonder how efficient the software we use is. I wouldn't be surprised if we could get double the framerates in Doom if we rewrote all the software from scratch. Plus, with cable & dsl modems, internet and network connections are a lot more reliable and faster. Networking protocols like TCP/IP were designed for dial-up connections which tend to be slow and unreliable. If we rewrote the software, we should get a lot better throughput. I know, this would take years to do and hard to get it to everyone. Just curious what it would be like if we did that.

dernhelm
Feb 6, 2007, 01:47 PM
Computers not machines. Unlikely iPhone is 64 bit. Please correct/surprise me. The claim will be true for a few minutes/days until iPhone ships :(

Rocketman

iPhone? Don't you mean ATN? :rolleyes:

But in any case, I agree with the previous poster, 64 bit is a development concern, and they will use this WWDC to announce that their entire computer hardware line is now 64 bit compatible.

That will actually be a really big deal.

I also think they will announce a specific iPhone ship today, with a better than 50% chance that they will say shipping TODAY. It will be interesting to see if the recant their position a bit and have developer kits for the iPhone. It doesn't look like they will, but it certainly feels like the right thing to do, and I think there is a chance that Apple will realize that.

Other than that, there will be a whole Leopard going on. And that will be exciting in itself.

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 01:53 PM
Linked from the article:

http://guides.macrumors.com/WWDC

This shows that WWDC usually is a "preview" of the next bump of the OS.If this is correct and stays in line with past WWDC's 2007 will have a preview of 10.6 or 11.0.Which tells me Leopard will be out before WWDC07.

gugy
Feb 6, 2007, 01:55 PM
Okay, off-topic question for you guys
I have been a verizon customer for the past few years, but my family contract just expired on the 2nd. My wife understands that I have to have the iphone and thus we have to switch to Cingular. My question is, should i continue with Verizon under no contract for the next few months before the iphone, or should i go ahead and switch to cingular now so that i can get my wife a new phone and me a free one to tide me over til June? Shes got the crappiest phone on the market and i feel bad making her wait another 5 months for another one when if it werent for the iphone on cingular, she could have a new one now. Any advice on when to switch? If they are rumored to discount service prices, that would make a big difference.
Thanks:apple:


I am in the same boat. My contract with Verizon expires end of February and I'll wait and pay month to month until we get more info regarding what type of plans and cost of switching to the iPhone before move to Cingular.

BUT, for me the most important thing is make sure I can get a reception as good as the one I have from Verizon at my location. if not then forget it. What goods make the iPhone if I can't use it as a phone?:eek:
I had Cingular 5 years ago and it was crap, so I am not sure if they are any better now.

cshehadi
Feb 6, 2007, 01:55 PM
This shows that WWDC usually is a "preview" of the next bump of the OS.If this is correct and stays in line with past WWDC's 2007 will have a preview of 10.6 or 11.0.Which tells me Leopard will be out before WWDC07.

yeah - it looks like Tiger was previewed at the WWDC in 2004 and then released in April of 2005. Don't know when Panther was released, but it wasn't at the WWDC

mandoman
Feb 6, 2007, 02:04 PM
April NAB: Octo Macs, Final Cut Studio Upgrade
May Special Release: Leopard
June WWDC: Powerbooks

Compile 'em all
Feb 6, 2007, 02:11 PM
4. An app to run Windows apps without Windows installed.



Never gonna happen.

dernhelm
Feb 6, 2007, 02:16 PM
I'm the kind of person who feels that sometimes you have to break backwards compatibility to move forward, but also feel changing something just for the sake of change is stupid. If it ain't broken, don't fix it unless the benefits far outweigh the costs.

One thing I'd like to see is an operating system built from scratch. Don't use any old libraries or anything. I'm sure a lot of software libraries, SDKs, whatever, haven't changed much since they were created. Just in the last 5 years (maybe not even), we've gotten multiple graphics cards set up in SLI mode, multi-core 64-bit procs, hi-def video & audio, cable/dsl modems and a whole lot of stuff. I wonder how efficient the software we use is. I wouldn't be surprised if we could get double the framerates in Doom if we rewrote all the software from scratch. Plus, with cable & dsl modems, internet and network connections are a lot more reliable and faster. Networking protocols like TCP/IP were designed for dial-up connections which tend to be slow and unreliable. If we rewrote the software, we should get a lot better throughput. I know, this would take years to do and hard to get it to everyone. Just curious what it would be like if we did that.

Rewriting your IP stack would not only be silly and pointless, it would be a security NIGHTMARE!

You may well get some performance improvements from a software rewrite, but you'd also get a lot of regressed bugs and security holes. In software, starting over from scratch is usually a desperation move because the software was either unmaintainable or unbelievably difficult to extend.

Not so with Unix for the most part.

Evangelion
Feb 6, 2007, 02:18 PM
We don't know how "stripped down" the "mobile OS X" is. What if it lacks the concept of file and process ownership and user accounts? What if the iPhone hardware lacks an MMU (Memory managment unit) If so then a buggy application could not only crash the phone but take out some system files turrning the iPhone into a brick that needs to be sent back for service.

I have never seen that happen, and I have been working with various Nokia-smartphones for quite some time. Yes, I have seen dead phones, but they are dead due to hardware-failure, not because some piece of software bricked the phone. I have seen apps crash, but I have never seen them brick the device itself. Never. And no, I have NEVER seen an app cause problems with the network (another reason Apple mentioned for blocking third-part apps)

You say "unlikely" for some random bug to take out the firmware in flash. Yes. But what about Trojans? If anyone can make software, many people will and idiots will install junk on their phones. If the OS is as stripped down as above than security is imposable, not just hard but imposable. You can't let random software run on such a system

During the several years of working with smartphones, I have seen ONE phone get infected with a virus. And that was long ago. I haven't seen that happen again in a long time. So the risk is very theoretical indeed.

a Phone is different then a computer. People ecpect phones to work 100% for years. Phines are also "real time" devices. Here is a pretty good introduction to why a phjone is not a computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system

I fail to see the relevance. There are lots of third-party apps for Symbian, and they don't seem to cause any problems. If apple blocks third-party apps, the reason for that is either of these:

a) Apple does not know what they are doing. That is, they can't design a reliable embedded OS that allows third-party apps. Symbian has no problems here, and there are embedded Linux'es that allow third-party apps with zero problems.

or

b) Apple wants to keep iPhone 100% under their control

take your pick.

wrldwzrd89
Feb 6, 2007, 02:31 PM
This shows that WWDC usually is a "preview" of the next bump of the OS.If this is correct and stays in line with past WWDC's 2007 will have a preview of 10.6 or 11.0.Which tells me Leopard will be out before WWDC07.
I point to my earlier post on page 1 of this thread. I agree with your reasoning, but I just can't see how Apple would be ready to preview 10.6/11.0 that soon after releasing Leopard.

thumb
Feb 6, 2007, 02:35 PM
June WWDC: Powerbooks

woo hoo, finally the G5!!

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 02:35 PM
April NAB: Octo Macs, Final Cut Studio Upgrade
May Special Release: Leopard
June WWDC: Powerbooks

Interesting you point out the NAB in Vegas..

I looked over the floor plans for this years NAB show and Apple has the largest presence floor-space wise this year.They have 3 booths.
One is 100'X120'
Two are 50'X50'.

The only other exhibitor to have more floor-space is Sony.

cloudnine
Feb 6, 2007, 03:31 PM
Jobs' iPhone keynote was great and all, but I really hope WWDC 07 has enough actual Mac coverage to make up for the huge void of Macintosh news at Macworld.

I second that... two announcements at macworld, neither of which were available that day. meh :(

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 03:41 PM
I point to my earlier post on page 1 of this thread. I agree with your reasoning, but I just can't see how Apple would be ready to preview 10.6/11.0 that soon after releasing Leopard.

If past practices by Apple is any gauge they could at the very least tell developers what's going to be in 10.6..

Tiger was released April 29th 2005 and then Apple announced the transition to Intel at the WWDC05 and said the next OS would be called Leopard.

I see no reason to think this won't happen this year.Apple has gone past the transition and can now concentrate more on the OS than they did earlier.

flukewurm
Feb 6, 2007, 03:45 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility that Leopard's delays may have something to do with the potential emergence of a multitouch Mac?

if you are right about this, and apple does it RIGHT, i don't give a F#CK what it costs i will own one the day it ships.

psychofreak
Feb 6, 2007, 03:47 PM
if you are right about this, and apple does it RIGHT, i don't give a F#CK what it costs i will own one the day it ships.

Mmm...touch screens...

BoRegardless
Feb 6, 2007, 05:56 PM
If Apple engineers are like me, they would want the iPhone to be able to automatically connect to their MacBook Pro which is closed and access info without opening the MBP.


Maybe they'll finally announce iLife '07. :)

I think Leopard will be released at WWDC just in time to show off the "secret features" that hooks up with iPhone in some kinky, sexy ways we haven't seen yet. That's my expectation, at least.

wrldwzrd89
Feb 6, 2007, 06:15 PM
If past practices by Apple is any gauge they could at the very least tell developers what's going to be in 10.6..

Tiger was released April 29th 2005 and then Apple announced the transition to Intel at the WWDC05 and said the next OS would be called Leopard.

I see no reason to think this won't happen this year.Apple has gone past the transition and can now concentrate more on the OS than they did earlier.
I'd like to see a preview of Mac OS X 10.6 or 11.0 as much as you would. What I wonder is how stable such an early build would be, if Apple shows one off.

Stella
Feb 6, 2007, 06:50 PM
I'd like to see a preview of Mac OS X 10.6 or 11.0 as much as you would. What I wonder is how stable such an early build would be, if Apple shows one off.

LOL, your joking aren't you - or anyone expecting to see 10.6

10.5 would be just out the door - Apple won't be showing anything in 10.6, in fact it won't be mentioned.

Remember after 10.4 was released? WWDC was just after this and SJ reviewed 10.4 and didn't mention 10.5.

Squire
Feb 6, 2007, 07:25 PM
Maybe they'll finally announce iLife '07. :)

God knows it could use a major upgrade, especially iDVD, which I've been fighting with for the last 5 days.

I think Leopard will be released at WWDC just in time to show off the "secret features" that hooks up with iPhone in some kinky, sexy ways we haven't seen yet. That's my expectation, at least.

Given the June announcement, I think Apple will release new Mac Pros sometime in late February or early March, otherwise the line-up would have gone without a refresh for nearly 10 months!

I agree wholeheartedly. I can sense your sarcasm but others seem to truly believe we'll get iLife at WWDC. Those of you expecting iLife '07 at the developer's conference are way off, I think. Wouldn't it be foolish to introduce an '07 product (especially one that typically arrives in early January) in June? And the Mac Pros? Aren't quad core Xeons already shipping? What's the holdup with the octo-core Mac Pros?

I'm worried that Apple will hold one event to introduce new Mac Pros AND unveil Leopard-- in effect, delaying the release of the desktops to match the OS release. And I expect April. Why? Well, because Steve said "spring" and April is the spring-est month. In addition to the Leopard release, I expect there to be another event between now and WWDC. Perhaps a music/movies/iPod-related event.

-Squire

wrldwzrd89
Feb 6, 2007, 07:31 PM
LOL, your joking aren't you - or anyone expecting to see 10.6

10.5 would be just out the door - Apple won't be showing anything in 10.6, in fact it won't be mentioned.

Remember after 10.4 was released? WWDC was just after this and SJ reviewed 10.4 and didn't mention 10.5.
No, I wasn't joking - in fact, what you said reinforced the point I was trying to make. That is, it's highly unlikely that Apple would show off the next Mac OS X release at this year's WWDC.

Rocketman
Feb 6, 2007, 07:47 PM
Never gonna happen.

That sounds like a challenge among posters.

Rocketman

Rocketman
Feb 6, 2007, 07:56 PM
If past practices by Apple is any gauge they could at the very least tell developers what's going to be in 10.6..

Tiger was released April 29th 2005 and then Apple announced the transition to Intel at the WWDC05 and said the next OS would be called Leopard.

I see no reason to think this won't happen this year.Apple has gone past the transition and can now concentrate more on the OS than they did earlier.

Thanks for your NAB FACTS Peace. It's so refreshing to see facts posted.

I guess I am in the camp where Leopard is so new, it hasn't even been released yet, I doubt we will see 10.6 stuff discussed.

I do think some of the 10.5 stuff is game changing and needs a full year to digest.

ZFS
Wimax
ATN (iPhone and thin allscreen MacBookPro) (ATNN).
AT&T network issues
never forget the many apps now shipping and being released
OSX lite
Server stuff which is high end developer central

I also think the OSX brand is so strong we will see 10.10 and 10.11 before we see 11.0.0.

Apple is a branding company.

When is Apple going to dominate the enterprise?

Rocketman

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 08:03 PM
Thanks for your NAB FACTS Peace. It's so refreshing to see facts posted.

I guess I am in the camp where Leopard is so new, it hasn't even been released yet, I doubt we will see 10.6 stuff discussed.

I do think some of the 10.5 stuff is game chganging and needs a full year to digest.

ZFS
Wimax
ATN (iPhone and thin MacPro) (ATNN).
AT&T network issues
never forget the many apps now shipping and being released
OSX lite
Server stuff which is high end developer central

I also think the OSX brand is so strong we will see 10.10 and 10.11 before we see 11.0.0.

Apple is a branding company.

When is Apple going to dominate the enterprise?

Rocketman


I said "If past practices by Apple is any gauge they could at the very least tell developers what's going to be in 10.6.."

Didn't mean to imply Apple was going to do a step by step preview of the next release.Based on the assumption that OS 10.5 would be out before WWDC Apple could at the least give devs a name and a couple small glimpses of whats to come.Since WWDC does include forward looking stuff for developers I stand by my opinion :)

I might add that nowhere is the word "Leopard" to be found anywhere in the initial WWDC announcement.

wmmk
Feb 6, 2007, 08:16 PM
1:Leapord/ilife07/iwork07 will already be released by June wwdc. Therefore allowing:
2:New Imac product line to be announced.
3:New Mac mini line to be announced.
4:New true video iPod.
What do you guys think.
WWDC is for devs. Most devs don't give a hoot about any of the stuff you mentioned, but who knows?
Widgets and Cover Flow were already available in the market before Apple added the functionality to OSX (widgets) and iTunes (Cover Flow).
as a matter of fact, apple just bought coverflow, cleaned up the code, and put it in iTunes. they wouldn't even have to write their own new software.
Never gonna happen.
it already has at codeweavers...
If past practices by Apple is any gauge they could at the very least tell developers what's going to be in 10.6..

Tiger was released April 29th 2005 and then Apple announced the transition to Intel at the WWDC05 and said the next OS would be called Leopard.

I see no reason to think this won't happen this year.Apple has gone past the transition and can now concentrate more on the OS than they did earlier.

maybe a name (Lion, I bet), but I doubt that we'll get any ideas of features, even without on-screen previews. That'd just steal too much leopard thunder.

kalisphoenix
Feb 6, 2007, 09:20 PM
I'm the kind of person who feels that sometimes you have to break backwards compatibility to move forward, but also feel changing something just for the sake of change is stupid. If it ain't broken, don't fix it unless the benefits far outweigh the costs.

One thing I'd like to see is an operating system built from scratch. Don't use any old libraries or anything. I'm sure a lot of software libraries, SDKs, whatever, haven't changed much since they were created. Just in the last 5 years (maybe not even), we've gotten multiple graphics cards set up in SLI mode, multi-core 64-bit procs, hi-def video & audio, cable/dsl modems and a whole lot of stuff. I wonder how efficient the software we use is. I wouldn't be surprised if we could get double the framerates in Doom if we rewrote all the software from scratch. Plus, with cable & dsl modems, internet and network connections are a lot more reliable and faster. Networking protocols like TCP/IP were designed for dial-up connections which tend to be slow and unreliable. If we rewrote the software, we should get a lot better throughput. I know, this would take years to do and hard to get it to everyone. Just curious what it would be like if we did that.

Yeah, you should do something about that.

monke
Feb 6, 2007, 09:33 PM
Just got the ADC invite, labeled: 'Save the Date for WWDC 2007'.

http://images.apple.com/chatterbox/us/2007/02/3793/img/mainimage.jpg

I'll bet Leopard will be announced that day.

Chundles
Feb 6, 2007, 09:42 PM
Just got the ADC invite, labeled: 'Save the Date for WWDC 2007'.

http://images.apple.com/chatterbox/us/2007/02/3793/img/mainimage.jpg

I'll bet Leopard will be announced that day.

I'll bet it's announced before it but nevermind. That's an awesome graphic - shows a little of the tweaked graphics for what looks like an iCal update. Looks like the old calendar widget actually with different colours.

Bring on the WWDC!

Oh and here are a list of things which won't be talked about at the WWDC, could someone put 10 seconds on the clock...now:

- iPod
- iMac
- iLife
- iWork
- iTunes
- MacBook
- Mac mini
- Anything that doesn't end in "Pro" or isn't a member of the "Pro Apps" family
- Oh, and Hugh Jackman.

/Dr. Cox

So yeah, remember folks, this is a developers conference so we as consumers won't get a look in. Doesn't mean it won't be very cool though.

G5Unit
Feb 6, 2007, 09:45 PM
Just got the ADC invite, labeled: 'Save the Date for WWDC 2007'.

http://images.apple.com/chatterbox/us/2007/02/3793/img/mainimage.jpg

I'll bet Leopard will be announced that day.

Ahh beat me to it!

brucku
Feb 6, 2007, 09:53 PM
Cingular is going to change their rate structure very shortly and give consumers a 50% overall reduction. It will come out very soon. :eek:

It'll be another boon to Apple before launch. :p

would you be referring to a "free incoming calls" type structure ala most of Europe. That would be very nice. *but we already have free in-network calling which they don't, so i dont think we'll get free incoming calls structure.

Chundles
Feb 6, 2007, 10:01 PM
would you be referring to a "free incoming calls" type structure ala most of Europe. That would be very nice. *but we already have free in-network calling which they don't, so i dont think we'll get free incoming calls structure.

Pretty much everywhere BUT the US/Canada has free incoming calls and SMS. It's a feature of the US/Canadian phone system that I can't get my head around and I think the US consumers should be in an uproar over but they just don't do a thing.

I would think it's a foundation of capitalism - you don't pay for something you don't do. If you don't make a call you don't pay for it.

Down here Telstra were running a scheme where they actually paid you for receiving calls, it wasn't much but it highlights the disgusting nature of the US mobile phone system.

GrandeDrip
Feb 6, 2007, 10:10 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility that Leopard's delays may have something to do with the potential emergence of a multitouch Mac?

After seeing the Jeff Han demonstration at TED, and the iPhone, and noticing the feature sets in Leopard being more and more inclined toward a three-dimensional UI environment, I spoke with a former Apple engineer who interacted with vendors, developers, customers, etc. as part of their product development.

It's a foregone conclusion in his and my mind that Apple is testing working prototypes of a 3-D user interface on a multi-touch tablet Mac. It's just a question of when they'll be ready. Their product development cycles are, according to him, about two years.

I think iPhone is a tactical product in a larger business strategy seeking to leap way ahead of Microsoft and completely redefine, again, the way people use computers. And while I'm very skeptical of the possibility, I do find some suggestions in Leopard's known features (like time machine, cover flow, spaces, etc.) that they may be closer to launching a multitouch Mac than anyone could anticipate.

They certainly surprised the world with the Intel-ready dual binaries of OS X which analysts thought would take another two to three years just to develop and test AFTER Apple announced plans to move to Intel processors.

This is exactly what I have been thinking too (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/893003462731/m/505007982831?r=505007982831#505007982831). Many signs point in this direction... patents, TIME.com article, hints in the iPhone interface, etc.

I am glad to see I am not alone in this line of thinking.

brucku
Feb 6, 2007, 10:15 PM
Pretty much everywhere BUT the US/Canada has free incoming calls and SMS. It's a feature of the US/Canadian phone system that I can't get my head around and I think the US consumers should be in an uproar over but they just don't do a thing.

I would think it's a foundation of capitalism - you don't pay for something you don't do. If you don't make a call you don't pay for it.

Down here Telstra were running a scheme where they actually paid you for receiving calls, it wasn't much but it highlights the disgusting nature of the US mobile phone system.

come on. you can let it go to voicemail. you did "do" it by picking up the call. And you are "doing it" by talking on it longer than 1min. The charges incurred with incoming phone calls are somewhat explainable.

- yes i'm playing my own devils advocate.

Chundles
Feb 6, 2007, 10:20 PM
come on. you can let it go to voicemail. you did "do" it by picking up the call. And you are "doing it" by talking on it longer than 1min. The charges incurred with incoming phone calls are somewhat explainable.

- yes i'm playing my own devils advocate.

Nope, I didn't make the call, I'm not paying for it.

We do not pay for incoming calls or SMS down here and anyone who tried to bring in such a system would be run out of town.

So you're saying you would rather pay for calls you did not make?

But, enough of this, back to the topic of the WWDC. What's coming in June that we could expect to see? Pro App updates? A Mac Pro redesign?

SiliconAddict
Feb 6, 2007, 10:53 PM
The rumored iPhone launch coincides with this time period. I don't consider this chance. there is simply no rush for Apple to get an SDK out for the iPhone when they know that they will sell several tons of iPhones within weeks of its release. My biggest complaint is that if an SDK is in the works why not just come out and say so instead of irking off a lot of people with more of Jobs's cloak and dagger routine. It would have been one less thing for people to bitch about.

Frankly the whole limited app thing is the second biggest issue for me.

PS- I can't wait for people to start the complaining about Cingular. All because you want a snazzy new phone. Never let it be said that the forums didn't warn you.

peharri
Feb 7, 2007, 09:33 AM
They'll do what they have done for every other OSX release that arrived outside of any Mac World / Developer conference.

Yes, demo it at the previous MacWorld/WWDC.

That's why it's not going to come out until after WWDC. It wasn't demo'd at this MWSF. The next available event is WWDC.

peharri
Feb 7, 2007, 09:35 AM
Apple at any moment can call a special event to launch Leopard.
I am pretty sure this is what is going to happen.

No, they can't, for the reasons I said originally.

The target group for Leopard features is not well served by journalists and industry figures. It's the Mac community. Short of them organizing another MacWorld at a month's notice, there's no such event before WWDC.

peharri
Feb 7, 2007, 09:42 AM
Pretty much everywhere BUT the US/Canada has free incoming calls and SMS. It's a feature of the US/Canadian phone system that I can't get my head around and I think the US consumers should be in an uproar over but they just don't do a thing.

I would think it's a foundation of capitalism - you don't pay for something you don't do. If you don't make a call you don't pay for it.

Down here Telstra were running a scheme where they actually paid you for receiving calls, it wasn't much but it highlights the disgusting nature of the US mobile phone system.

The US has free incoming (as in no additional charges beyond the monthly subscription) calls, from certain Sprint plans to "no airtime charges" carriers like MetroPCS/Cricket. For almost all other carriers, on regular talk plans, airtime charges are non-existant at nights and weekends.

Most other countries have schemes where the caller pays (usually a premium) for calls that are incoming to cellphones. These are not "free incoming calls" by any stretch of the imagination, except perhaps to people who never make outgoing calls.

Telstra's scheme (Three, in the UK, has something similar) actually demonstrates the absurdity of making people pay extra to call mobiles. In most cases, the amounts charged are much higher than they should be. Why, exactly, should someone be paid for receiving a call, if they're not operating a premium rate service? Why would I want my friends and family to pay me whenever they want to talk to me?

Stella
Feb 7, 2007, 12:03 PM
Most Canadian carriers have free incoming calls. And free SMS on a lot of their packages.

However, this wasn't the case several years ago.
Pretty much everywhere BUT the US/Canada has free incoming calls and SMS. It's a feature of the US/Canadian phone system that I can't get my head around and I think the US consumers should be in an uproar over but they just don't do a thing.