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View Full Version : Why i will not buy Apple TV




^squirrel^
Feb 7, 2007, 05:18 AM
I dont want to cause a war, just wanted to express my view on why i will not buy Apple TV anytime soon.

I live in the UK and right now there is no date for being able to download TV or Movies through iTunes. No big deal as im sure they have something in place by summer time.

The main thing that really makes my blood boil is the fact i have to use my Mac to download all the content. Why can't i just use Apple TV to download music, TV and Movies and then it transfers the data to iTunes on my Mac? Windows media center does it! Xbox 360 does it! why can't Apple TV do it?

I don't want to have to go down the Windows Media Center route, but Vista Media Center does look good and it does everything a Media Center should do!

I would love for someone to tell me that Apple TV will do these things in the future, but i'm not holding much hope for it!

Thanks all for your time

Darren



FleurDuMal
Feb 7, 2007, 05:32 AM
I dont want to cause a war, just wanted to express my view on why i will not buy Apple TV anytime soon.

I live in the UK and right now there is no date for being able to download TV or Movies through iTunes. No big deal as im sure they have something in place by summer time.

The main thing that really makes my blood boil is the fact i have to use my Mac to download all the content. Why can't i just use Apple TV to download music, TV and Movies and then it transfers the data to iTunes on my Mac? Windows media center does it! Xbox 360 does it! why can't Apple TV do it?

I don't want to have to go down the Windows Media Center route, but Vista Media Center does look good and it does everything a Media Center should do!

I would love for someone to tell me that Apple TV will do these things in the future, but i'm not holding much hope for it!

Thanks all for your time

Darren

I've more or less ignored the :apple: TV as I pretty much live in one room, so I just use my 24" monitor as my TV. But yes, the :apple: TV is pointless for most people until they have movie and TV downloads in the UK - and, imo, pointless until they improve the quality of the downloads (I imagine an iTunes download l looks pretty awful on a large TV screen).

However, I have a feeling that the ability to download from iTunes might be added into a later firmware update.

Passante
Feb 7, 2007, 05:34 AM
I don't get your point. :apple:TV is not a full computer. Its an internet compliant device that acts as an interface between content on your Mac and your TV.

Unless you use a Mac mini and its next to your TV you have to go through the hassle of connecting your computer to the TV to watch the media you've downloaded or recorded. Thats a trivial to awkward process with a laptop. Or a pain in the backside if you have a 24 inch iMac or a Mac Pro and its the same problem with windows media center. The alternative would be to buy a Mac mini and use it to stream content from other Macs in the house. But that costs $600 without a keyboard!

I was not very keen on :apple:TV at first. But now that I use my upstairs G4 tower as a tivo (using eyeTV) I see the utility of :apple:TV and look forward to getting one.

adrianblaine
Feb 7, 2007, 05:39 AM
I dont want to cause a war, just wanted to express my view on why i will not buy Apple TV anytime soon.

The main thing that really makes my blood boil is the fact i have to use my Mac to download all the content. Why can't i just use Apple TV to download music, TV and Movies and then it transfers the data to iTunes on my Mac? Windows media center does it! Xbox 360 does it! why can't Apple TV do it?

I would love for someone to tell me that Apple TV will do these things in the future, but i'm not holding much hope for it!


Are people that passionate about :apple: TV to cause a war against you? I live in the US and have quite a bit of content on my computer (music and tv shows, not movies), but I'm not rushing out to buy one any time soon. I'm waiting for a lot of the same things you are. I will not buy one until I can sit on my couch with the Apple remote and be able to somehow search and rent a movie, and never have to go to my computer. When that happens, I'll think about getting one.

Markleshark
Feb 7, 2007, 05:44 AM
It's getting less and less attractive the more I look at it.

It only works with some HDTVs? Whats with that?

Also, the UK argument stands for me as well. Oh Well.

^squirrel^
Feb 7, 2007, 05:45 AM
I just think it would be nice to be able to purchase Music/Movies/TV through it's front row like interface and then that downloads to you mac. It doesn't have to be iTunes on the Apple TV.

I don't get your point. :apple:TV is not a full computer. Its an internet compliant device that acts as an interface between content on your Mac and your TV.

biturbomunkie
Feb 7, 2007, 05:51 AM
ummmm... appleTV is a device to stream video contents wirelessly to your TV from your computer. you'd still need a device like appleTV to stream videos wirelessly from a Media Center peecee.

with that said; however, i wasn't too excited about appleTV either.


Why can't i just use Apple TV to download music, TV and Movies and then it transfers the data to iTunes on my Mac? Windows media center does it! Xbox 360 does it! why can't Apple TV do it?

I don't want to have to go down the Windows Media Center route, but Vista Media Center does look good and it does everything a Media Center should do!

I would love for someone to tell me that Apple TV will do these things in the future, but i'm not holding much hope for it!

Thanks all for your time

Darren

adrianblaine
Feb 7, 2007, 05:57 AM
ummmm... appleTV is a device to stream video contents wirelessly to your TV from your computer. you'd still need a device like appleTV to stream videos wirelessly from a Media Center peecee.

with that said; however, i'm wasn't too excited about appleTV either.

There's no reason why it couldn't do more than that. I refuse to pay that much money for streaming/storage device. Apple will continue to make things easier and more appealing, so you will be able to buy and download stuff from your couch eventually, I was just hoping that Apple would do it right from the beginning.

^squirrel^
Feb 7, 2007, 05:59 AM
Not if you have an Xbox 360 or Media PC connected to your tv.

ummmm... appleTV is a device to stream video contents wirelessly to your TV from your computer. you'd still need a device like appleTV to stream videos wirelessly from a Media Center peecee.

with that said; however, i wasn't too excited about appleTV either.

biturbomunkie
Feb 7, 2007, 06:07 AM
ummmm... a device could well be an xbox.

ummmm... appleTV is a device to stream video contents wirelessly to your TV from your computer. you'd still need a device like appleTV to stream videos wirelessly from a Media Center peecee.

with that said; however, i wasn't too excited about appleTV either.

Not if you have an Xbox 360 or Media PC connected to your tv.

biturbomunkie
Feb 7, 2007, 06:18 AM
well, all the things that you mentioned can be done with or w/o the appleTV. my broke-ass student setup: MBP, a personal file server, 27" LCD TV, apple wireless KB/mouse and salling clicker

There's no reason why it couldn't do more than that. I refuse to pay that much money for streaming/storage device. Apple will continue to make things easier and more appealing, so you will be able to buy and download stuff from your couch eventually, I was just hoping that Apple would do it right from the beginning.

^squirrel^
Feb 7, 2007, 06:18 AM
ummmm... a device could well be an xbox.

yes, so my point is, what does apple tv give you that Xbox doesn't?

biturbomunkie
Feb 7, 2007, 06:27 AM
agreed. one of the reasons that i wasn't excited when i heard about appleTV.

in any case, appleTV is a solution for the mac platform, made by apple. not sure if the xbox would work on mac. perhaps i should borrow my ex's xbox and find out. :)

yes, so my point is, what does apple tv give you that Xbox doesn't?

davede70
Feb 7, 2007, 07:25 AM
yes, so my point is, what does apple tv give you that Xbox doesn't?

OSX.

I'm not 100% sold on AppleTV and it's pointless until I can rip my personal dvds into my apple with 5.1 sound. But there is no way I am ever going back to windows. My step dad and I bought the same printer. I put it on my apple by plugging it in, it took 1 second. I installed it on his pc by plugging it in, inserting the install disc, running through three seperate installation aspects and clicking on about 10-15 pop ups to get through it. (And of course a restart) It took about 10 minutes to install it. It also tricked me into installing some photo program that he didn't need.

Grimace
Feb 7, 2007, 07:46 AM
If you could stream all audio/video, not just stuff you have in iTunes, then I'd be onboard. Of course, you could rip everything you have into iTunes, but for DVDs, that's a pain.

Passante
Feb 7, 2007, 07:59 AM
I don't have an X-box but I venture to guess that:

It won't stream movies, TV shows or music with DRM from iTunes

And it probably won't stream movies, TV shows or music that do not have DRM from iTunes

Also can the Xbox download content or just stream. It makes a big difference cause fast forwarding sucks when streaming on a b/g wireless network.

^squirrel^
Feb 7, 2007, 08:38 AM
in any case, appleTV is a solution for the mac platform, made by apple. not sure if the xbox would work on mac. perhaps i should borrow my ex's xbox and find out. :)

Mac and Xbox 360 work, you need connect 360 for the mac! I have it running.

^squirrel^
Feb 7, 2007, 08:39 AM
I don't have an X-box but I venture to guess that:

It won't stream movies, TV shows or music with DRM from iTunes

And it probably won't stream movies, TV shows or music that do not have DRM from iTunes

Also can the Xbox download content or just stream. It makes a big difference cause fast forwarding sucks when streaming on a b/g wireless network.

Yes you can download movies through xbox 360.

SMM
Feb 7, 2007, 08:57 AM
I dont want to cause a war, just wanted to express my view on why i will not buy Apple TV anytime soon.

I live in the UK and right now there is no date for being able to download TV or Movies through iTunes. No big deal as im sure they have something in place by summer time.

The main thing that really makes my blood boil is the fact i have to use my Mac to download all the content. Why can't i just use Apple TV to download music, TV and Movies and then it transfers the data to iTunes on my Mac? Windows media center does it! Xbox 360 does it! why can't Apple TV do it?

I don't want to have to go down the Windows Media Center route, but Vista Media Center does look good and it does everything a Media Center should do!

I would love for someone to tell me that Apple TV will do these things in the future, but i'm not holding much hope for it!

Thanks all for your time

Darren


Thank you Bill

mrgreen4242
Feb 7, 2007, 08:57 AM
I'll agree that I'm not excited about the :apple: TV either, but not for exactly the same reasons. One, I'm in the US, so I can D/L content from iTMS. But, I'm not a fan of their sales model. Songs I can see the desire to own, you'll likely listen to it 50-100 times in a couple years, so it makes sense to own it. Movies, I can see wanting to own; $10-15 and you'll have it on hand to watch a few times whenever you want. There's some value there. TV shows, though, are just generally not something I want to own. Ya, there's a couple shows that I like to have on hand to rewatch, but even those the rewatching, per episode, is pretty small number. And if I do want to buy those I buy them in a DVD set where I am getting not only the shows but some extra material - deleted scenes, commentaries, interviews, etc etc.

Point is they are treating TV shows like songs and that model isn't very appealing. There's a reason that video stores stay in business, and Netflix is doing so well: people don't want to own movies. They are more than content to rent them. TV shows are an extension of that, for the most part.

If Apple offered all you eat "rentals" of TV shows, something similar to how places like Napster/Rhapsody rent music (you can listen to any song in their catalog as long as you are a member) the Apple TV might be something worth considering. As it is, well, I can spend about the same amount of money and get an iPod, video cables for it, a nice multiformat DVD player, and a few big boxes of DVD-RWs and do, more or less, all the things the Apple TV does, albeit not quite as conveniently. (Play non-DRM'd files in EDTV resolutions with a DiVX DVD player, play Apple DRM files on the TV via the iPod, etc etc).

The moment Netflix launches a set top box to go with their new video on demand feature, and grows that library of content a bit, the :apple: TV is over.

^squirrel^
Feb 7, 2007, 09:22 AM
Yes that would be a nice idea to rent movies.

I'll agree that I'm not excited about the :apple: TV either, but not for exactly the same reasons. One, I'm in the US, so I can D/L content from iTMS. But, I'm not a fan of their sales model. Songs I can see the desire to own, you'll likely listen to it 50-100 times in a couple years, so it makes sense to own it. Movies, I can see wanting to own; $10-15 and you'll have it on hand to watch a few times whenever you want. There's some value there. TV shows, though, are just generally not something I want to own. Ya, there's a couple shows that I like to have on hand to rewatch, but even those the rewatching, per episode, is pretty small number. And if I do want to buy those I buy them in a DVD set where I am getting not only the shows but some extra material - deleted scenes, commentaries, interviews, etc etc.

Point is they are treating TV shows like songs and that model isn't very appealing. There's a reason that video stores stay in business, and Netflix is doing so well: people don't want to own movies. They are more than content to rent them. TV shows are an extension of that, for the most part.

If Apple offered all you eat "rentals" of TV shows, something similar to how places like Napster/Rhapsody rent music (you can listen to any song in their catalog as long as you are a member) the Apple TV might be something worth considering. As it is, well, I can spend about the same amount of money and get an iPod, video cables for it, a nice multiformat DVD player, and a few big boxes of DVD-RWs and do, more or less, all the things the Apple TV does, albeit not quite as conveniently. (Play non-DRM'd files in EDTV resolutions with a DiVX DVD player, play Apple DRM files on the TV via the iPod, etc etc).

The moment Netflix launches a set top box to go with their new video on demand feature, and grows that library of content a bit, the :apple: TV is over.

Thank you Bill

lol,

I think this thread is best closed. I dont want to get a bad name on this forum for causing trouble. I've seen how some threads turn out. :eek: Admin please can you close this thread now.

Thanks

D

MacBoobsPro
Feb 7, 2007, 09:46 AM
(I imagine an iTunes download l looks pretty awful on a large TV screen).


Actually they are just as good if not better than a DVD on my 42" HDTV. I was quite surprised actually.

I know technically they are not DVD quality but you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

That being said i think HD downloads would be a great additin.

petvas
Feb 7, 2007, 11:05 AM
The Apple TV is for me a step backwards. It offers inferior quality in lower resolution in comparison to a DVD, doesn't have Dolby Digital and DTS.

If it included at least a DVD player then I would be keen to buy it. The integration with iTunes makes sense, since that way you have one place to manage all your media, especially if you also have an iPod. iTunes gives also the much needed Windows Compatibility...

At first I was excited about it and placed a preorder which I later cancelled. I started ripping my DVDs and compared the ripped mp4 (H.264) to the original. I just couldn't accept the quality drop, so I cancelled my order...

mrgreen4242
Feb 7, 2007, 11:29 AM
Actually they are just as good if not better than a DVD on my 42" HDTV. I was quite surprised actually.

I know technically they are not DVD quality but you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

That being said i think HD downloads would be a great additin.

I download a lot of TV shows from the internet and watch them on my DIVX compatible DVD player. The resolutions are close to, but not, DVD size (usually 702x386 or so). Other than a few stray macroblocks, etc (which DVDs are susceptible to as well, they just pay people fairly well to make sure there aren't any or at least very few) they look just as good. I think the reason for this is the color accuracy. DVDs are encoded with NTSC in mind, MPEG4/DiVX/h264 files are not. NTSC is famous for it's horrible color, to the point that it is jokingly called Never The Same Color. High quality, vivid colors go a long, long way to making a picture look good, more so than going, say, 480p to 720p in my opinion.

petvas
Feb 7, 2007, 11:52 AM
I download a lot of TV shows from the internet and watch them on my DIVX compatible DVD player. The resolutions are close to, but not, DVD size (usually 702x386 or so). Other than a few stray macroblocks, etc (which DVDs are susceptible to as well, they just pay people fairly well to make sure there aren't any or at least very few) they look just as good. I think the reason for this is the color accuracy. DVDs are encoded with NTSC in mind, MPEG4/DiVX/h264 files are not. NTSC is famous for it's horrible color, to the point that it is jokingly called Never The Same Color. High quality, vivid colors go a long, long way to making a picture look good, more so than going, say, 480p to 720p in my opinion.

PAL has no such problem...

tarjan
Feb 7, 2007, 12:56 PM
ntsc is fine for color, in fact the color space is larger than your monitors (all lcd and plasma displays, all dlp, and 99% of the crt displays out there). The issue was OTA reception over analog signals and the equipment sending those ntsc signals around. Once on a digital system (back and front end), the color space and continuity is fine (and similar to pal).

Maybe second gen dlp with LED or lcd with LED will get us a 100% ntsc match.

There ARE professional monitors that have a full color space, but they run into the thousands.

Of course today with the apple tv, you are adding in compression artifacts, issues with 802.11n and a variety of other "stuff" and the solution just doesn't seem that compelling.

psychofreak
Feb 7, 2007, 01:03 PM
Of course today with the apple tv, you are adding in compression artifacts, issues with 802.11n and a variety of other "stuff" and the solution just doesn't seem that compelling.

What issues?

mrgreen4242
Feb 7, 2007, 01:08 PM
ntsc is fine for color, in fact the color space is larger than your monitors (all lcd and plasma displays, all dlp, and 99% of the crt displays out there). The issue was OTA reception over analog signals and the equipment sending those ntsc signals around. Once on a digital system (back and front end), the color space and continuity is fine (and similar to pal).

Maybe second gen dlp with LED or lcd with LED will get us a 100% ntsc match.

There ARE professional monitors that have a full color space, but they run into the thousands.

Of course today with the apple tv, you are adding in compression artifacts, issues with 802.11n and a variety of other "stuff" and the solution just doesn't seem that compelling.

Without trying to claim to be an expert (I'm not) I can plainly see the craptastic color of DVDs on my pretty low end HDTV. The color isn't consistent, even from frame to frame. It's not the TV or the player as MPEG4 encoded files look fine. The only thing I can think explains it is the NTSC color system.

Krevnik
Feb 7, 2007, 07:28 PM
Without trying to claim to be an expert (I'm not) I can plainly see the craptastic color of DVDs on my pretty low end HDTV. The color isn't consistent, even from frame to frame. It's not the TV or the player as MPEG4 encoded files look fine. The only thing I can think explains it is the NTSC color system.

Realize that MPEG2 is hardly a great video codec, and that it uses the same colorspace as MPEG4. I have seen absolutely great DVD encodes, some decent ones, and ones that should have been sent back to do again. It is very likely the codec and/or source. (And some low-end DVD players have horrible MPEG2 decoders to boot)

I have a couple TV shows I have encoded into MPEG-4 (using XviD) and H.264 (using x264) from DVD, and they absolutely destroy the quality of iTMS H.264 TV episodes in color and detail... granted they are about 30% larger. So the work done making the encode can have a rather noticable impact on the final result.