new home for my control room

[zimv20]

i thought it may be of interest to some people to see the steps i'm going through to relocate my control room from my very small spare bedroom to a rather small spare bedroom.

the project got underway a week ago, when the electricians first showed up, so i'll play a little catch-up.

as i mentioned, i'm placing the CR in a spare bedroom, plus i'm turning its closet into a machine room. the overall plan before moving in audio gear is:

1. new electrical
2. new voice and data
3. insulate outside wall
4. new window
5. cable run between CR and machine room
6. paint
7. hang/place traps from both RealTraps and GIK

here's the drawing i've done of the room:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/cr_dimensions.jpg

(note: the room height is 9'5")


my sitting position will be facing south ("up" in the drawing) with the vent to my left. the monitors will be about 3' off the front (south) wall. racks will be to my right.

here's a pic of what will become the front wall, taken from the closet door:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_closet.jpg


from that front wall:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_south_wall.jpg


and from the door to the room, looking NW:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_door1.jpg


this was the start of the electrical work:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/electrical1.jpg

[zimv20]

the wall came down yesterday:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/wall_down2.jpg

[zimv20]

and today this 100+ year old window:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/old_window.jpg


... was replaced with this slightly larger and much more energy-efficient window:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/new_window3.jpg


amazingly, i got the new window for only $200; it was in the odd bin at a local lumber yard.

[zimv20]

tonight the electrician stopped by and did some work for the closet electrical, voice and data.

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/closet_elec2.jpg

[kanker]

Man, I swear I've seen a thread just like this somewhere. :p

[zimv20]

Man, I swear I've seen a thread just like this somewhere. :p
my twin brother is doing a similar project :-)

[OldCorpse]

my twin brother is doing a similar project :-)

Yeah, they have these threads now and again on gearslutz for example. It's always interesting :)

One thing that kind of baffles me, is that you have windows at all in your CR. I understand that you're retrofitting from an existing living space (bedroom), but the usual idea is that you should have as much of your room with exactly the same acoustic properties as possible - and a window causes a giant "hole" in that integrity. Which is why folks often retrofit something like a basement, so they don't have to deal with windows. But if that's all that's available, it's better than nothing. I assume you're gonna do something with that window... or are you just gonna leave it be, and have an occasional buzzing from it when certain frequencies are hit :)

[zimv20]

I assume you're gonna do something with that window...
it'll get a heavy curtain on it, and then i might also hang one opposite it, across the doorway, for symmetry.

in addition, because of the layout, 1st reflection points will be about where the door and window are, so i'll be placing portable traps there when i mix.

if i stay in this house, i'll probably someday refurbish the basement and move the studio down there. then this room will be a guest room again. with a nice new window :-)

[OldCorpse]

it'll get a heavy curtain on it, and then i might also hang one opposite it, across the doorway, for symmetry.

in addition, because of the layout, 1st reflection points will be about where the door and window are, so i'll be placing portable traps there when i mix.

if i stay in this house, i'll probably someday refurbish the basement and move the studio down there. then this room will be a guest room again. with a nice new window :-)

Sounds like a plan... damn, one day I gotta build myself something like that... right now I have an editing room that sort of doubles for a studio but I know it's totally inadequate... one day, when I have a loose $1mil lying around :)

[ebook]

Pretty cool plans. It's nice to see a build thread somewhere else than just at Gearslutz! So, when you say control room are you saying that you have another room to do recording or that you don't do recording or that you are going to record in this room also? I was just wondering.

[OldCorpse]

Have you seen the window in post #2? The view - that snow... brrr!!! Chicago, yeah. I grew up with snowy winters. Hate it personally. Which is why I moved here to sunny Los Angeles Southern California, and I ain't movin' anytime soon... though San Francisco keeps tempting me... but Chicago style winter? No thank you! Still, it's lovely to see a studio built. Kudos zimv20!

[zimv20]

when you say control room are you saying that you have another room to do recording or that you don't do recording or that you are going to record in this room also?
i do overdubs and mixing, if we're recording drums we'll go to a studio. the room being remodeled is indeed just the control room. i've got another room i use as a live room and i'll run a snake when needed.

live room:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/artists/katie_mixtape.jpg

[zimv20]

Have you seen the window in post #2? The view - that snow... brrr!!!
it's been bitch ass cold the last week or so. normally that doesn't bug me, the single digit temps, but i was walking in the neighborhood on monday night -- layered all to hell and with a ski-mask -- but good GOD was it bad. the wind penetrated everywhere.

it was something like -5 w/ -25 windchill. this is the kind of weather in which i choose to replace a window :rolleyes:

[zimv20]

today's progress:

1. external framing on window installed
2. most insulation done
3. most drywall put up
4. alarm guy re-wired window

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/drywall1.jpg


http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/drywall2.jpg

[Mydriasis]

Oooooh, looks nice! I can't wait to see what it looks like when finished.:)

You said the monitors will be three feet from the south wall, where will you be sitting? How will they be mounted, or are they on stands? And what kind of monitors do you have, if I recall correctly some Adams, right?

[zimv20]

You said the monitors will be three feet from the south wall, where will you be sitting? How will they be mounted, or are they on stands? And what kind of monitors do you have, if I recall correctly some Adams, right?
adam a7's, yes. i'm going to buy some stands for them.

i'll be sitting facing the south wall (the top wall in the diagram) roughly 38% from the north (diagram bottom) wall. that puts me about even with the vent. once everything's in, i'll play w/ monitor placement, hence the "about" in "about 3 feet".

i'll have a desk, to my immediate right will be a rolling rack w/ the patchbays (right near the corner of the window), and then along the wall to my right (where the edge of the closet door swings open) i'll have my racks. in the photos, that's where the two new boxes are (one for power, one for voice/data).

i'm having two kinds of power coming into the room and closet. the "normal" one will be for the lights, printer, fax machine, etc.

the orange outlets are for the computer and all things audio. they'll be sharing the same isolated ground circuit. maybe someday when i have more money i'll install a pro power balancer (http://www.atlasproaudio.com/equitech.html) on there. yeah, someday.

[Mydriasis]

Aww... I was hoping for more pictures or at least a progress update today.

Maybe I am just to early or maybe just maybe zimv20 has much more of a life than most of us here. :D

[zimv20]

Aww... I was hoping for more pictures or at least a progress update today.
nothing terribly exciting so far today, but the drywall is all up:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/drywall4.jpg

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/drywall3.jpg

and i'll throw in a before/after picture of the exterior of the new window. yes, that is indeed the color of my house.

before:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/old_window_ext.jpg

after (i'll paint the frame in the spring):

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/new_window_ext_framed2.jpg

[Cybix]

how are the acoustics in the live room? looks a bit reflective, much deadening in there?

[zimv20]

how are the acoustics in the live room? looks a bit reflective, much deadening in there?
i've got a couple bass traps in there, plus the carpet. the angled ceiling helps some, too.

but you're right, it's not great. when i rehabbed the space (attic), i wasn't even thinking about recording in there. i wish i hadn't been so short-sighted. there's actually a sweet spot in there for vox, which is the majority of what i've been recording lately.

[zimv20]

work re-commenced today, but nothing terribly exciting. sanding of drywall mud and more application, and picking up of supplies. but the room should be ready for trap placement by the weekend.

and good thing, the rest of my house is being overrun by traps...

[zimv20]

today:

window framed out:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/window_frame_int.jpg


walls sanded and cable hole made (left of closet door, above baseboard):

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/wall_sanded_and_passthrough1.jpg

[zimv20]

and now the room is nice and toasty. a good 40% of my house remains uninsulated, with leaky single-pane windows. argh.

[Killyp]

lol just you wait till you get those G5s working, that'll heat the room up :p

What are you planning on using for monitoring, and what about patch bays?

[zimv20]

the g5 is going into the uninsulated / leaky window closet. monitors are adam a7's (i ordered the stands (http://www.soundanchors.com/page8.html) for them just today).

my patchbays are all 1/4" longframe. some are punchdown, some are soldered to snakes (the rosetta 800 and folcrom hook up to these, plus a breakout snake i have). most of them are ADC, if not all.

i am worried about having time to get all the wiring done...

[zimv20]

walls are primed. tomorrow is paint day.

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/walls_primed1.jpg

(that's the rear wall)

[Cybix]

good luck with the paint (and the fumes!) hehe

looking forward to a finished room!

[zimv20]

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/walls_painted1.jpg

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/walls_painted2.jpg

[Mydriasis]

Nice red! Daring, but I like it.:)

[zimv20]

Nice red! Daring, but I like it.:)
it looks bright in the photos, but it's still wet and really brightly lit. the color's darkened already.

[Cybix]

get more pics for us when the paint is dry.. it's gonna be nice! I like

In my house I have a blue feature wall in one room, a green feature wall in the family room, brown'ish feature wall in the main bedroom, and my cinema room is completely dark (eggplant style colour). You gotta be daring!

[zimv20]

You gotta be daring!
yeah, i love color. i've got lots of reds and oranges in my house.

here's a photo of my foyer -- it's the same red i'm using in the new room.

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/foyer.jpg

[wmmk]

cool house! out of interest, whereabouts in chicago are you?

[zimv20]

cool house! out of interest, whereabouts in chicago are you?
north center. how about you?

[zimv20]

lots o' progress the past couple days. room got a second coat of the red, the window was painted and the trim touched up. and today, my band-mate mike came by and we hung some traps. i am worn out.

rear wall:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_rear_high.jpg

front wall:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_front_high.jpg

first reflection point:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_ceiling.jpg

we also assembled the GIK stands and screwed the GIK traps to them -- a way better solution than the provided, which is eye hooks and picture wire. for those curious, the #10 3" wood screws did the trick.

obviously, these aren't placed...

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_gik_gaggle.jpg

on tuesday, the electricians finish up. then i've got some clean up to do on the floor and in the closet, and i can start moving things in.

[Cybix]

nice! excuse my stupidity, but was are the GIK traps made out of? looks like something easily home made.

I'm using rugs, mattresses, pillows, etc to deaden a make-shift room when I record... Would love something a little easier to work with hehe

[zimv20]

was are the GIK traps made out of? looks like something easily home made.
i believe it's owens corning 703 (http://www.readyacoustics.com/index.php?go=products.proddetails&prod=OC703UF). as you can see from that page, it's pretty inexpensive. the GIK panels are kinda DIY-ish, but they're pretty affordable.

[zimv20]

the traps are placed. also, i did the fabric stuff yesterday.

front wall:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_front2.jpg


back wall:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_rear2.jpg


window:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_window.jpg


door:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/traps_door.jpg

[Mydriasis]

Nice, getting closer. I can't wait to see want it will look like when finished.

That red curtain in front of the door looks like the one I had in my student flat. Is it from IKEA?

[zimv20]

That red curtain in front of the door looks like the one I had in my student flat. Is it from IKEA?
bed bath and beyond. here it is closer up:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/rod_detail.jpg

[Mydriasis]

I searched far and wide, but I finally found a picture of my old dorm room with part of that curtain on it.

From the close up I can see that, other than the big loops, the two hardly have anything in commons. I like yours lots better, but it was probably also more expensive ;) :p.

[zimv20]

From the close up I can see that, other than the big loops, the two hardly have anything in commons. I like yours lots better, but it was probably also more expensive ;) :p.
those rings make me think they're the same manufacturer. expensive? they were $35 each, 84" length, and i got 3 of them (2 for the window, 1 for the door).

a lot cheaper than the ones knocked all the way down to $99 each!

[Cybix]

nice work, starting to look more dead... be sure to get some in-session pics too :)

[zimv20]

updated pics:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/front_area_populated1.jpg

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/rear_area_populated1.jpg


i'm still moving in rack gear...

[Cybix]

nice telephone:cool:

[TheDance511]

yeah i like your phone....:)

[zimv20]

bona fide Bell Telephone. from the days when clocking someone in the head with a phone meant something!

added bonus: it still works when the power goes out.

[Mydriasis]

I know this is a little off topic, but have you tried the Adam Sub8 with those A7's. My local music store only has the Sub10MKII and the Sub12, but they are a little too expensive for me.

I was looking into the P11/P22-A, but I really want to hear the A7s and the Artist in combination with the Sub8... I guess I'll have to make that 150km drive one of these weekends.:rolleyes:

[zimv20]

no, i've not tried them with a sub. the bass response sounds good in my room, imo, but it's lighter than what most people probably like.

the bass traps are important in this regard, because they've really tightened up the bass. i mean, you can really hear what's going on, as opposed to that 80 - 200 Hz smear that i hear from most systems.

[Mydriasis]

Yeah I know, I have bass traps set up as well.

I have been doing a bunch of mastering of techno and house music lately in a little studio my freind has. He has the Dynaudio BM-14S which sounds amazing. And you can really tell the difference.

PS: I am not a fan of techno or house music!:p

[zimv20]

He has the Dynaudio BM-14S which sounds amazing. And you can really tell the difference.
how does he use it to improve his mixing? or is it for when clients come a'calling?

[Mydriasis]

Well both.

When I use his set up, I normally do the general mixing at my house. I then take the mix to his studio, and first adjust stuff with just his two monitors. Then I turn on the sub and play around some more. And if I am really into the track I listen to it on some of his 'test speakers' (car stereo set up, headphones, ear buds, small single speaker...).

But thats just me, I only do this stuff as a hobby.

The studio I am talking about is more or less private. He is renting an apartment in this old bunker because his wife, daughter and neighbors don't appreciate all the 'noise' in the wee hours of the morning. Anyway, clients go to the 'real' studios he works with.

[zimv20]

what i mean is: i've never mixed with a sub, and i don't understand how adding one would improve my mixes. (not saying they don't need improvement, btw. not saying that *at all*).

everything i'm doing with this room is with the idea of isolating the sound coming out of the speakers from everything else. if i added a sub, it would cause the floor, walls, et. al. to resonate. i don't see how that would help me mix, and for those who do mix with a sub, i'm curious as to what i'm missing or what i'm not thinking of.

iow, how does a sub help you?

[Mydriasis]

Okay, I think I understand the question now.

To tell you the truth, I have only used that sub on maybe half a dozen mixes. And I know most people say that a subwoofer for stereo mixes is no good. I used it for basically two thing:


For audio that will be played on a home theater system with a sub (mostly music for family videos). Yes, even though I only mix in stereo and not 2.1.

For that dance music.

I like to think that I can seperate the low frequencies better from that sub. And I think the mixes turned out better, especially the dance music. In both cases the mixes ended up with a very clean, tight but rich bass. Maybe its those last few Hz that just go under in my speakers.

Anyways, that sub is a lot of work and very moody(for lack of a better word)! Placement is really hard, it sounds different in every position and christian is always testing it with an SPL meter.

[zimv20]

I like to think that I can seperate the low frequencies better from that sub.
understood, thanks.

it sounds different in every position and christian is always testing it with an SPL meter.
now *that* doesn't sound like much fun :-)

[zimv20]

the session starts saturday! so i'm in the final stretch and working my butt off here.

tonight, the wiring began in earnest, and of course i'm racking and reracking like mad:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/wiring1.jpg


but at least i've got the lava lamps keeping me in the mood:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/lava_lamps2.jpg

[xJulianx]

Wow that looks really nice so far. Be sure to get some completed pictures up and soem in session pics!

Good luck with the completion.

[zimv20]

i did a test mix last night, and it looked a little something like this:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/racks1.jpg

[zimv20]

so, the session starts tomorrow, and though i'm not completely done, i'm in good shape. the biggest outstanding task is setting up another patchbay and getting the remainder of the pieces hooked in. but i've got enough "cheater" cables that i don't actually have to do it, it's just a nice-to-have.

in the first post, i posted some photos of the room. i took a few more, from roughly the same spot/angles, for comparison:


from the closet / machine room:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_closet.jpg

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_closet_compare.jpg


from the south / front wall:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_south_wall.jpg

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_south_wall_compare.jpg


from the doorway, towards the closet:

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_door1.jpg

http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/images/misc/new_cr/from_door_compare.jpg

[zimv20]

we've been mixing for a couple days now, and i wanted to write a bit about the experience.

overall, i'm extremely pleased. besides the new room, this is the first i'm mixing w/ the pieces i picked up recently: adam a7's, api 2500 and a folcrom. this combo is pretty kick ass, i must say.

before, mixing ITB, i'd always get to a point where adding a track to the mix would start The Collapse -- each track would make the song smaller overall, and it'd be a fight to carve a space sonically for the new track. with the folcrom, even after adding (say) a new backing vocal to 20 other tracks, i can hear it and place it properly. love love love it.

so far, i'm using the 2500 exclusively on the mix buss. typically, i'll get the kick, snare and bass happening before i enable the 2500. everything else is mixed into the 2500. i set it to take off just 1-2 dB, so it's not noticeable -- until you get the whole mix going and hit bypass. then the balls just drop off the song. so i'm loving what the 2500 is doing.

regarding the a7's, the mixes are translating very well to both my home and car stereos, even after being subjected to the mp3 encoding of itunes. the high end, in particular, is sounding quite nice.

[zimv20]

i've put up an mp3 of a sampler of sorts of the 8 songs we've mixed to date. some will be strung up again (so to speak) for tweaks.

file is here (http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/Music/BoxSetAuthentic/peace_sampler/sampler070320.mp3). sorry 'bout the mp3 compression.

also -- i've had so many problems w/ the a7's (i like mixing through them, but all 3 units shipped to my house have had noise floor and crackling issues) that i was sent a pair of p11's. just now installed them and had a listen and they sound a good deal different than the a7's. we'll finish the mixing session (3 more songs) w/ the p11's.

[manosaurus]

I guess that the mixes sound good but the recording and performances of the vocals seem weak on these tracks (granted they are just excerpts.) Once I hear the poor vocals it's hard to even think about the mix, if it's strong or not.

[zimv20]

I guess that the mixes sound good but the recording and performances of the vocals seem weak on these tracks
nearly everyone in the group sings, some are stronger than others. if it's the woman to whom you're referring, then i beg to differ.

[manosaurus]

"The group"?

Sounds like serveral different artists/bands. Let me take another listen.

[CanadaRAM]

Zim, for your sake I hope you have strapped those rack-flight cases together and anchored them to the wall. Where I live we don't have earthquakes very often but... geez I'd hate to be on the underside of a gear-valanche.

[zimv20]

"The group"?

Sounds like serveral different artists/bands.
that's all my "band". we're actually a collection of songwriters who perform and produce our own stuff, but when you've got 7 different people writing songs, there's a good variety of styles.

the samples are all from stuff that we've been recording over the past few years and mixed over the past 9 days.

[zimv20]

I'd hate to be on the underside of a gear-valanche.
how do you think i'm hoping to die?!?!

:-)

[manosaurus]

I don't hear anything in the mix that stands out. It all sounds well proportioned. Good job man!

Here's what I meant about that first comment.


In the first track the intonation is a bit off at times. Her voice (the lead) sounds good but the recording session for the vocals sounds unproduced. The first phrase homophonic BACKING VOCALS I think are the weak link here. Sometimes the upper voice paralells in fourths and sometimes thirds. Intonation is iffy when it comes to two part harmony and perfect intervals from my experience. The unison on the word "drives" (D note) sounds too amatuer - I think an F note would have been better for the backing vocals on that word. I think that is really the moment that sticks out for me. Maybe that is what they are going for though, I don't know.

In the second phrase the counter-melody is good though. I like that part.

Same thing in the second clip. The two-part backing vocals (the "doo's") are in perfect intervals and the intonation is a little off. They are a pain in the ass to get right.

The third clip is awesome!

I love how the vocals melt into the guitar work in the fourth clip.

[zimv20]

the recording [...] of the vocals seem weak
oh yeah -- i tracked exactly zero of the lead vocals, but did track some of the backing. at least 3 of the lead vox were recorded:
1. with a cheap rode mic
2. ... through a cheap tube pre
3. ... through bad converters
4. ... in a tiny live room ("bedroom verb")

... and it took quite a bit of effort to make them sit well w/in the songs. but because we're spread throughout the US and to london, i don't have the opportunity to control many of the recordings.

[manosaurus]

that's all my "band". we're actually a collection of songwriters who perform and produce our own stuff, but when you've got 7 different people writing songs, there's a good variety of styles.

the samples are all from stuff that we've been recording over the past few years and mixed over the past 9 days.

I see. Seven writers? Wow, that sounds like it could be chaotic at times! Are you going to make available to us the complete versions of these tracks. I really want to hear the complete version of a few of them!

[zimv20]

I don't hear anything in the mix that stands out. It all sounds well proportioned. Good job man!
<chomp>

thanks for the comments!

[zimv20]

Are you going to make available to us the complete versions of these tracks. I really want to hear the complete version of a few of them!
we're going to master and release them, so we're not posting full versions. sorry!