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PC Clone
May 26, 2003, 07:30 AM
The Fanatics
Alot of the times you can never trust a Mac person's opinion on computers because they are blinded by their irrational devotion to Apple and Steve Jobs... it's actually kind of scary sometimes... Apple(just like Microsoft) is just another business whose primary purpose is to make money... Steve Jobs is not some saint who battles Bill Gates and the forces of evil... the only reason Apple seems so nice to you is because their customer base is ever diminishing and they want you to keep being their loyal fanatics and keep buying their products...

Over-Exaggeration
Mac users don't have much credibility in the computer world because, due to the zealotry mentioned above, they seem to think Microsoft, Windows, and anything related to PCs in general are garbage products that can't compare to their perfect Apples... "OMG, WinDOZE sucks sooo bad! It like freezes every 5 minutes! God PCs are trash... have fun trying to get anything done with your hard drive crashing once a day!" :rolleyes: Please... 90%+ of the world operates on Windows systems... do you realize how chaotic this world, in which these days almost everything relies on computers, would be if PCs were as unreliable as you make them out to be? Give me a break...

General Annoyingness
Mac users seem to be in love with anything Apple, whether it be how their computer cases look or how the operating system works... and consequently anything that has to do with PCs is ugly and clumsy... when you say "Ew Dells are so stupid and ugly! OSX is so much more classy and elegant than Windows" that's irritating, and frankly just exposes you as another illogical Apple zealot... no one who has decent knowledge of computers is going to use Windows and say "Gee, the user interface and system tools for this OS are great, but I just wish I could do all of this more elegantly..." What the hell? Get real...

Now I realize there are Mac users out there who don't fit into these categories, but a great majority seem to...

tjwett
May 26, 2003, 08:07 AM
While there are surely people out there who are indeed blind Mac zealots I think the majority of long-time Mac users are very well informed about technology, computing, and even are comfortable accepting the shortcomings of the Mac hardware. I know it's been said a million times but most people who use Macs for personal purposes do so because of the software, namely OS X. No one can deny that it's an extremely intuitive and attractive environment to work in. Who's to say that using a computer has to be an ugly experience? That goes for the outside as well, as I don't think there is a person on the planet that can't appreciate Apple's industrial design innovations. As for the comments about it being a Windows-run world...Well, here's the thing; While it's true that over 90% of the world's computing tasks are handled by Windows, most of these tasks are everyday business tasks like accounting, databases, and other general number crunching activities. These are NOT the markets that Apple is trying to dominate. Apple's niche market is the in creative fields; graphic design, music, video, etc, and I think they are very happy with owning those markets, and rightfully so. I've worked in just about every form of media in some capacity from music composition to print to video and I've yet to work in a Windows-run environment. So while you can say that it is a Windows world for you and most of planet, the fact is that most of us spend are days in an all Mac world. You can't expect the programmer and the artist to agree on much of anything. I think that's what causes alot of the Mac/PC debate. You've got people hating machines that were simply not designed with them in mind. I've tried Windows, don't like it. Too many numbers and tech stuff to deal with for me. That's why I use the Mac. I don't want to have to think about the system. I write music, it's what I do. At the same time I don't expect a hardcore program developer to have a good time on a Mac. My guess is they'd probably think it was a little too cute and cartoony. I'm sure Windows is great for certain things, it just doesn't work for me and others I know. And while the Mac may not be right for you and others you know, I don't think it's anyone's place to say which platform is superior or who should be taken seriously or not. They are clearly designed for and geared towards different people who need to accomplish different tasks. I don't think my job is any better or more important than anyone else's. Everyone is into different things. Use what you are comfortable with. That's my two cents.

Roger1
May 26, 2003, 08:30 AM
Ok, I'll reply (the good part of my cartoon isn't on yet).

Alot of the times you can never trust a Mac person's opinion on computers because they are blinded by their irrational devotion to Apple and Steve Jobs... it's actually kind of scary sometimes... Apple(just like Microsoft) is just another business whose primary purpose is to make money... Steve Jobs is not some saint who battles Bill Gates and the forces of evil... the only reason Apple seems so nice to you is because their customer base is ever diminishing and they want you to keep being their loyal fanatics and keep buying their products...

I tend to agree. But after being in these forums for a while, I noticed a lot of people don't like MS because of the business practices don't always seem to be ethical (yes there are the many who are zealots who don't like MS because, well, it's MS).



Mac users don't have much credibility in the computer world because, due to the zealotry mentioned above, they seem to think Microsoft, Windows, and anything related to PCs in general are garbage products that can't compare to their perfect Apples... "OMG, WinDOZE sucks sooo bad! It like freezes every 5 minutes! God PCs are trash... have fun trying to get anything done with your hard drive crashing once a day!" Please... 90%+ of the world operates on Windows systems... do you realize how chaotic this world, in which these days almost everything relies on computers, would be if PCs were as unreliable as you make them out to be? Give me a break...

Many Mac users don't think pc's are garbage. What we think is that it has so many security flaws and viruses (virii?) it's not really worth wasting time on an OS that stands a good risk of getting infected. I also have to mention that since Apple makes both the Hardware and Software, overall Apples do seem to be more stable. I happily admit that Win2000 seems to be extremely stable on any pc I have put it on. Come on, you have never had stability issues with Win95-98, ME??

Mac users seem to be in love with anything Apple, whether it be how their computer cases look or how the operating system works... and consequently anything that has to do with PCs is ugly and clumsy... when you say "Ew Dells are so stupid and ugly! OSX is so much more classy and elegant than Windows" that's irritating, and frankly just exposes you as another illogical Apple zealot... no one who has decent knowledge of computers is going to use Windows and say "Gee, the user interface and system tools for this OS are great, but I just wish I could do all of this more elegantly..." What the hell? Get real...

Until the original imac came out, almost every pc was a black or beige pizza box, or rectangle, with the possible exception of an Alienware machine (drool :D ) As for X being more classy, well to me anyway, it is. I think it needs a little bit of polishing still, but it makes much more sense than XP does. I have a hard time finding anything in XP. When I get a new machine in, if I have the option of using Win2000, XP gets dumped.

Anyway, the Black Tiger squadron is going out take on the space carrier, so I have to get back to my cartoon :D

Edit: some spelling

IndyGopher
May 26, 2003, 08:34 AM
If Macintosh computers account for 3% of the market, and a large percentage of Mac owners own multiple Macs, AND as you say, some of those people don't fit into your description, then you're getting worked up over 2% or so of the computer owners out there. And you care *enough* about it to come to a Mac website, into the forums, to complain about it.

You used the term "zealot," I will assume you are meaning that these people are irrational or unreasonable. Since they can't be reasoned with, what is your purpose in pointing that out? It's not like you are going to change their minds.

Which brings me to what Mac people find irksome about PC people... Why do you care what we do and like, and why are you so set on trying to change us?

Groovsonic
May 26, 2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by PC Clone
The Fanatics

Over-Exaggeration

General Annoyingness
" What the hell? Get real...

Now I realize there are Mac users out there who don't fit into these categories, but a great majority seem to...

May I ask why you are here? Do you like Macs? I gather (from your sig) that you own a PC and not a Mac. Thats fine, and I realize that there are a number of PC users on the forum, but most of them are at least "into" macs. Some of them are saving to buy one, others use them at work. Whats your story? Why the hostility? If you don't like Mac users, you are in the WRONG place.

I myself have an FP iMac. I had a Gateway, and it kept breaking and crashing. There were wires everywhere. I didn't like it, but I kept it until it finally died on me. I bought the mac, and its great. Now I realize that it is slightly unfair to compare a 3 or 4 year old computer to a new one, but that was my experience.

I tend to see and describe Macs in a more favorable light than they might even merit, but that probably comes from a "small group" mentality. Almost everyone I know uses PCs. I use a mac, and am proud of it. I like the fact that I am part of a (relatively) small group of people who use something diffrent. Something better (IMO). A group of people who "get it" like I do. The majority of people dont "get it" when it comes to macs.

Now I realize that it is silly to become emotionally attached to an inanimate object made by a profit driven company, but just like there are Saab (or other quriky, diffrent car) fans out there who will defend their slightly quirky, but slightly better cars beyond reason, there will be mac fans. And there are millions of Camry, Accord and Taurus drivers out there who just dont care. They like their PC, and don't really care about something diffrent. I am not saying there is anything wrong, or inherently bad about PCs (or camrys), I just prefer Macs. Why does this bother you?

the future
May 26, 2003, 08:58 AM
The truth, PC Clone, is that most Mac users make a very conscious decision to work on a Mac because they actually know Windows (well, you can't avoid it, can you) and just don't like it. Most Windows users, on the other hand, have zero knowledge of the Mac and still think "it sucks". Who is the zealot, then?

Don't you think that what you call "irrational devotion" to Apple must be founded on SOMETHING? Do you sincerely believe that Macs have nothing going for them + we all pay a little extra FOR NO REASON AT ALL? Man, if that was true, Steve Jobs would be the greatest mass hypnotist in the history of the world.

There are a lot of reasons to prefer the Mac, the elegance and intuitivity of the OS and the sheer class and build quality of the hardware only being the most obvious ones. I won't elaborate any further, though, because as a major Microsoft zealot you probably wouldn't want to know anyways...

mmoin
May 26, 2003, 09:09 AM
My first instinct is to ask why you're posting on a mac forum if you're such a PC fan.

Anyway, though, I have used PC's for most of my life, but recently bought an iBook and I don't think I'm ever going back to the PC. One of the best purchases I ever made (along with my iPod and my TiVo).

MacsRgr8
May 26, 2003, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by the future
The truth, PC Clone, is that most Mac users make a very conscious decision to work on a Mac because they actually know Windows (well, you can't avoid it, can you) and just don't like it. Most Windows users, on the other hand, have zero knowledge of the Mac and still think "it sucks". Who is the zealot, then?

Don't you think that what you call "irrational devotion" to Apple must be founded on SOMETHING? Do you sincerely believe that Macs have nothing going for them + we all pay a little extra FOR NO REASON AT ALL? Man, if that was true, Steve Jobs would be the greatest mass hypnotist in the history of the world.

There are a lot of reasons to prefer the Mac, the elegance and intuitivity of the OS and the sheer class and build quality of the hardware only being the most obvious ones. I won't elaborate any further, though, because as a major Microsoft zealot you probably wouldn't want to know anyways...

Totally agree!

By the way , he/she (PC Clone) doesn't seem to own a Mac...... (s)he's probably trying to find out why he should get one. :)

Mr. Anderson
May 26, 2003, 10:04 AM
I'd personally like to see pcClone respond back to this thread - although I highly doubt that will happen. (blatant taunt, I know, but it might work)

My only real problem with the comments is that they're just as generalized as the 'mac fanatics' he's talking about. Sure there are mac zealots, but there are pc zealots as well.

The general issue to me is as The Future said - there is a lack of understanding of the mac in a majority of pc users.

D

8thDegreeSavage
May 26, 2003, 11:18 AM
Windows user who takes time to troll Mac boards= Windows Fanatic/Zealot.

Ian123
May 26, 2003, 11:27 AM
For my sins I am a PC user having made a conscious decision about 15 years ago to stay with the PC fraternity. I am however curious about Macs in general and whether they are any compelling advantages for one system over the other.

Much has been written in this forum about the elegance and ease of OSX but is the design and use of the applications not the real key in day to day satisfaction? I currently use a PC running Windows XP and it works fine - no blue screens of death or driver issues etc when for example upgrading graphic cards. I don't spend all that much time delving into the operating system per se but it does seem to be overly important to Mac users - why?

Some desktop publishing programs are avalable on both PC and MAC and Iwould be curious to hear constructive comments on the relative merits/disadvantages on both platforms.

Perhaps one day I might even make the switch.

iJon
May 26, 2003, 12:17 PM
actually i find most all the mac users on this site to be very well educated. many of us have good reasons why we chose macs over pc's. i think pc clone was expecting to get a flame going but it seems we are a little more educated than he though and he probably wont respond because he knows he is wrong and really doesnt have a good comeback and he would make a fool out of himself.

iJon

matthew24
May 26, 2003, 01:03 PM
To compare two operating systems you must work with both, most Mac users do, in contrast with most PC users who don't, so most Mac users know where they are talking about...

It is my job to maintain a network with about 800 PC's and over the years I really got fat up with the vulnerability of Windows and the complexity of the design of the operating system.

This made me switch, after I switched I really came to know that the philosophy behind a Mac differs completely with Windows. OSX has been designed to keep maintenance as simple as possible, you do not need to be an graduated expert if it comes to trouble shooting. (Although some basic knowledge is necessary), you are able to control the operating system while with Windows you continually have the feeling you are in a power struggle; Am I controlling the OS or is the OS controlling me? After a day of hard work I am really exhausted, I go home, switch on my Mac, and my Mac makes me smile again! If it comes to the technical aspects of the operating system, MAC OSX is superiour, no doubt about that, if it comes to GUI functionality Windows does quite a good job although XP has far too much bells and whistles, really annoying. For Mac users it is a frustration that such a poor technical design as Windows system does have such a great market share. I am still hoping for a revival!

whooleytoo
May 26, 2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Ian123

Some desktop publishing programs are avalable on both PC and MAC and Iwould be curious to hear constructive comments on the relative merits/disadvantages on both platforms.

Perhaps one day I might even make the switch.

Well, I have an iMac and an XP laptop, so IME I see it thus:

Reasons to go Mac:
- Stunning interface.
- Cheap (when you compare with *purchasing* Windows, and the fact with OSX you get free development tools, free ftp and web servers, firewall etc).
- Excellent development tools & environments - may not affect you if you're not a developer.
- Better cross-platform support - Mac supports Win standards better than Windows supports Mac standards, try reading a Mac CD on a PC for instance.
- High build quality on hardware, though Macs are expensive, they certainly are built better than most PC's, IMO.
- Far better support for plug 'n' play. (I use a PC mouse, a PC bluetooth adapter, and a USB 2.0 PC hub with my Mac without installing any drivers; on the PC I had to install drivers to get any functionality from the mouse or bluetooth adapter!)
- Far fewer virii.

Reasons to go PC
- Better UI responsiveness (generally).
- Cheaper hardware.
- More software choice.

I'm trying to be impartial, but those really are the only advantages I've found to my PC; the first is generally true though it may change when Panther comes out. The second is probably the biggest advantage of PC ownership.

The greater amount of software depends on what you use your machine for; if you're into gaming or use a lot of utilities, the PC will certainly have more options. If you're browsing the web, emailing, writing letters or using spreadsheets, you're probably only going to have one of each application anyway, so there's no effective difference between Mac and PC.

Hope this was helpful,
Mike.

Frozone
May 26, 2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by PC Clone
The Fanatics
Alot of the times you can never trust a Mac person's opinion on computers because they are blinded by their irrational devotion to Apple and Steve Jobs... it's actually kind of scary sometimes... Apple(just like Microsoft) is just another business whose primary purpose is to make money... Steve Jobs is not some saint who battles Bill Gates and the forces of evil... the only reason Apple seems so nice to you is because their customer base is ever diminishing and they want you to keep being their loyal fanatics and keep buying their products...

Over-Exaggeration
Mac users don't have much credibility in the computer world because, due to the zealotry mentioned above, they seem to think Microsoft, Windows, and anything related to PCs in general are garbage products that can't compare to their perfect Apples... "OMG, WinDOZE sucks sooo bad! It like freezes every 5 minutes! God PCs are trash... have fun trying to get anything done with your hard drive crashing once a day!" :rolleyes: Please... 90%+ of the world operates on Windows systems... do you realize how chaotic this world, in which these days almost everything relies on computers, would be if PCs were as unreliable as you make them out to be? Give me a break...

General Annoyingness
Mac users seem to be in love with anything Apple, whether it be how their computer cases look or how the operating system works... and consequently anything that has to do with PCs is ugly and clumsy... when you say "Ew Dells are so stupid and ugly! OSX is so much more classy and elegant than Windows" that's irritating, and frankly just exposes you as another illogical Apple zealot... no one who has decent knowledge of computers is going to use Windows and say "Gee, the user interface and system tools for this OS are great, but I just wish I could do all of this more elegantly..." What the hell? Get real...

Now I realize there are Mac users out there who don't fit into these categories, but a great majority seem to...


I switched at the end of last year and I have to say like a few people above it's the BEST choice one can make when it comes to computers. My question to you is have you ever even used a Mac for a period of more than a few minutes. And i'm talking about OS X not OS 9 or before?

vniow
May 26, 2003, 01:21 PM
Why Mac users don't take PC trolls seriously...http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251202

maraczc
May 26, 2003, 02:25 PM
To be a Mac person you have to be in love with the OS and the design. If you aren't then there really isn't a point of having one. You can get a PC system that has just as good hardware and support for half the price.

mkubal
May 26, 2003, 03:06 PM
I have used macs my whole life, but at the same time I have used many PCs. Just a few months ago I had both a PC and Mac on my desk. The PC was definitely faster than my Mac, but I still only rarely used the PC.

Now why if I had the choice between a mac and PC (faster) would I use the Mac almost exclusively? Quite simply the overall experience, ease of use and reliability of the Mac made it the machine of choice.

Of course I was forced to use the PC for a while when I had to get the logic board reset on my Mac because of a lightning strike. Definitely the worst problem I've ever encountered with my Mac. However, the PC one upped my mac a few days later when the power supply exploded.

That was the death of the PC. But I really don't miss it.

But about these zealots. I think alot of the people that seem over protective of Macs are forced to be that way because alot of PC people (who have never used a Mac) will tell them that their computer sucks, but really can't offer any further reasons why than "Mac's suck." I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have someone take you less seriously because you use a Mac just because they really don't know anything about them.

At the same time I know a number of people who have used PCs their entire lives and are extremely impressed when using my computer and would buy one if they had the money for it.

Long post. My bad.
Matt

beatle888
May 26, 2003, 03:21 PM
jesus F'en christ not another one of these threads. why do people that prefer pc's even come here?

to tell you the truth i do more PC bashing HERE than with my PC using friends. i dont think its the PC that bothers me, its the fans that come to a mac forum bitching about mac users.

beatle888
May 26, 2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Ian123
For my sins I am a PC user having made a conscious decision about 15 years ago to stay with the PC fraternity. I am however curious about Macs in general and whether they are any compelling advantages for one system over the other.

Much has been written in this forum about the elegance and ease of OSX but is the design and use of the applications not the real key in day to day satisfaction? I currently use a PC running Windows XP and it works fine - no blue screens of death or driver issues etc when for example upgrading graphic cards. I don't spend all that much time delving into the operating system per se but it does seem to be overly important to Mac users - why?

Some desktop publishing programs are avalable on both PC and MAC and Iwould be curious to hear constructive comments on the relative merits/disadvantages on both platforms.

Perhaps one day I might even make the switch.

there would be no reason for you to make "the switch". you are a satisfied PC user. you did however mention graphics programs. i was under the impression that color management was non existant on the PC. if your into graphics (at least in the printing industry) this might be a problem. also the fact that the industry is very much mac based you could run into problems when your switching files with someone else and they (for instance) didnt save that industry standard adobe illustrator file with a PC compatible 8bit tiff color preview. in my experience we save files with that option only when handing off files to executives since they would most likely be on a PC. another thing would be fonts. they wont be compatible with the pc. so you'll run into headaches there as well. unless of course the document was created in osx with open type fonts. basically if you use a pc in a mac based industry, you're makeing life difficult for yourself. i would say buy a mac and write it off.

there ARE pc's in the industry that do certain things, like maybe run the image setter or something like that, but not in the creative studio. of course there are always exceptions. im talking in general.

solvs
May 26, 2003, 04:09 PM
Agreed. This is the third discussion I've seen about this today.

Why bother?

I use both. Some people prefer one, some the other. If you want advice on why you should get a Mac, we'll give you some. If you just want to ask why we like Macs and go back to happily using your PC, we'll take time out of our busy schedules to tell you.

If you're just a troll, why bother?

Just go away (if you're a troll).

pseudobrit
May 26, 2003, 04:21 PM
Definition of a troll: drops a bomb and runs away.

PC Clone, why would you constantly pick fights with people on a Mac board? Will you be shocked when you get bashed? What would you expect if you went to a biker bar and screamed out "Harleys suck! Hondas rule!! American iron is for pussies!!"

My point: if you weren't cowering from behind the internet when you vented whatever psychological problems you have, you'd have to do it in the real world, and you'd probably get your ass kicked on a weekly basis.

Maybe we should do the charitable thing and lobby arn to give him his own forum; it's therapy to soothe his neurosis.

atomwork
May 26, 2003, 04:27 PM
May be PC users cannot understand the love, passion and true loyalty we have to our cute little Apple Logo :)

I guess you cannot copy this MS!!!!!

edesignuk
May 26, 2003, 04:29 PM
This thread is a total waste of time, I remember last time PC Clone paid us a visit, and caused just the same reaction. PC Clones threads are not worth the time to think up a decent response to, he/she is probably just sitting there with their PC friends laughing at how easily you will all take the bait....it's pointless, don't give them the satisfaction! :rolleyes: