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mattthemutt
Feb 11, 2007, 11:51 AM
I recently helped start a newspaper at school.

The school uses QuarkXPress (a Mac OS 9 version), and I use InDesign. The teacher who helps us is unaware of the existence of InDesign and assumes that it is some dumbed down software for students.

How do two compare?

Also, I have to publish the paper with a QuarkXPress template, and I was wondering if there was a convertor of some sort that will allow me to edit the Quark file, and export it to InDesign or QuarkXPress.

And, last but not least, the teacher said that the printer takes QuarkXPress in a certain format that is exported in a fashion similar to the files on a DVD. (That is, the images are in one directory, and the finished data is in another) Is it likely that pro printers will take InDesign file formats?

Thanks very much,

Matt



macstudent
Feb 11, 2007, 12:06 PM
You are most likely using quark 4, or possibly 5. Indesign is able to open native quark 4 files. If you are using quark 5 you can save down to a quark 4 file and open it in indesign.

Right now in the industry it is about 50/50 with quark and indesign, but indesign is shooting right past quark since they continually fail to innovate. Your teacher is behind the times (evident since they are still using classic and quark 4). Simply tell your teacher that you want to learn both quark and indesign since that is the future of the publishing.

In order to give your files to the printer you have to collect all of your fonts, images, and quark/indesign files. To do this in quark and choose File > collect for output. Indesign File > package.

I hope that helps.

I recently helped start a newspaper at school.

The school uses QuarkXPress (a Mac OS 9 version), and I use InDesign. The teacher who helps us is unaware of the existence of InDesign and assumes that it is some dumbed down software for students.

How do two compare?

Also, I have to publish the paper with a QuarkXPress template, and I was wondering if there was a convertor of some sort that will allow me to edit the Quark file, and export it to InDesign or QuarkXPress.

And, last but not least, the teacher said that the printer takes QuarkXPress in a certain format that is exported in a fashion similar to the files on a DVD. (That is, the images are in one directory, and the finished data is in another) Is it likely that pro printers will take InDesign file formats?

Thanks very much,

Matt

Blue Velvet
Feb 11, 2007, 12:09 PM
Your teacher is unaware of... Oh dear.

How do the two compare? In short, enough to generate almost as much strongly-felt partisan comment as between those who use Windows or a Mac.

http://www.quarkvsindesign.com/

There is no doubt that InDesign is more strongly-featured than Quark and is extremely powerful, however I still like Quark's interface better only because I'm used to it, finding InDesign a little palette-heavy and up until recently, Quark ran a little better on slower machines.

InDesign is far more tightly integrated into the Creative Suite and this makes certain workflows far easier... sometimes I use InDesign on a certain project if I would find some of its features useful. I love using it but I'm speedier around Quark.

For now, I'm going to leave this argument to one side because which application you use is not a measure of the designer you are. It also seems that the use of Quark is still more prevalent than InDesign in the UK at least.

As far as using a Quark template is concerned, it's just like a normal Quark file except you can't save over it. Instead, you have to save it as a Quark document after you've made changes to it or added something. See it as a locked Quark file.

There are converters e.g. http://www.markzware.com/q2id/ but they're not cheap. If it's a Quark 3 or 4 file you can try importing it into InDesign. Quark 5 files upwards are encrypted so that InDesign can't open them. But the translation is not always perfect. It's not really a route to take if you want to keep on swapping files back and forth between the two apps.

Lastly, when a Quark file is readied for prepress, you do what's called a 'Collect for Output', which collects a copy of the document and all the pictures and fonts used in your document into a new folder with a report on the technical details of your file. It's towards the bottom of the File menu and is known in InDesign as Packaging (also in the File menu).

mattthemutt
Feb 11, 2007, 12:11 PM
You are most likely using quark 4, or possibly 5. Indesign is able to open native quark 4 files. If you are using quark 5 you can save down to a quark 4 file and open it in indesign.

Right now in the industry it is about 50/50 with quark and indesign, but indesign is shooting right past quark since they continually fail to innovate. Your teacher is behind the times (evident since they are still using classic and quark 4). Simply tell your teacher that you want to learn both quark and indesign since that is the future of the publishing.

In order to give your files to the printer you have to collect all of your fonts, images, and quark/indesign files. To do this in quark and choose File > collect for output. Indesign File > package.

I hope that helps.

Great. That helps a bunch.

I have another question, it is quite basic. I'm attempting to create a newspaper that is 4 pages, but all on the same sheet, tabloid size.

I'm quite new to the idea of multiple page stuff in InDesign, and I can't quite figure out how to change what goes where.

By 4 pages, I mean that it is one single sheet, with a front page, two pages on the inside, and one on the back. I want page #1-2 to be the front and back, and #3-4 to be the inside.

I realise I could Google this, but I find the tutorials to be unhelpful, and lengthy.

Thanks again,

Matt

Blue Velvet
Feb 11, 2007, 12:17 PM
By 4 pages, I mean that it is one single sheet, with a front page, two pages on the inside, and one on the back. I want page #1-2 to be the front and back, and #3-4 to be the inside.


Don't use facing pages when you create the layout, drag single pages next to each other in the pages palette with the page shuffle option turned off. I'll post a pic if you want. Also, don't forget to add bleed; page items that go to the edge of the page must extend beyond it by about 3mm so that when the artwork is trimmed you haven't got white edges.

mattthemutt
Feb 11, 2007, 12:30 PM
Thanks again for your help. This is what the page layout looks like so far:
Is this incorrect?
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/1631/pagesx1.png

Blue Velvet
Feb 11, 2007, 01:06 PM
Is this incorrect?

Yes, that is incorrect. Although you could construct it like that, it's a difficult way to work. Create a new document, and in that first dialogue box do not select facing pages, right at the top of that box. Make sure you also have a value in the bleed options at the bottom. 1/8 of an inch if you're working in imperial, 3mm if in metric.

Then, with the document now open, open the pages palette. In the little triangle at the top left of the pages palette, flip it open and deselect the 'allow pages to shuffle' option.

Then in the pages palette, drag a blank page or a master page from the top of the palette to the right of the first page. And repeat the process for the next two pages beneath so you end up with this:

mattthemutt
Feb 11, 2007, 01:39 PM
Yes, that is incorrect. Although you could construct it like that, it's a difficult way to work. Create a new document, and in that first dialogue box do not select facing pages, right at the top of that box. Make sure you also have a value in the bleed options at the bottom. 1/8 of an inch if you're working in imperial, 3mm if in metric.

Then, with the document now open, open the pages palette. In the little triangle at the top left of the pages palette, flip it open and deselect the 'allow pages to shuffle' option.

Then in the pages palette, drag a blank page or a master page from the top of the palette to the right of the first page. And repeat the process for the next two pages beneath so you end up with this:

Ah. Perfect. That makes things much easier.

Matt

bigus7674
Feb 12, 2007, 02:45 PM
Matt - when using Quark's "Collect for Output" option as mentioned in previous posts, be leary of one thing. It's very rare on the Mac side, but very common on the Windows side, but figured I'd still mention it; sometimes not all of the fonts are copied into the "fonts" folder that is created with the collect for output option. So I always double-check by looking in that folder to make sure that all the fonts I've used are actually included - believe me, the printers who get these files will praise you for it.

I work for a label printing company and also do design and I have been thanked so many times for taking the extra time to make sure that ALL of the files and fonts are supplied to the printer. It's also a good way to network because it shows them that you are competent and know what you are doing...and at the same time are making their lives easier=)

techgrl89
Feb 21, 2007, 05:02 PM
matthemutt- you may have single-handedly helped me to find other users who have some Quark to INDY knowledge. It is amazing to me how much blather there is out there, but very little in-the-trenches folks who know both apps well enough to share battle scars!

I have been involved in training in the Ad Design department on INDY CS2 Ė coming from a Quark Xpress 4 world. Next year, the Editorial department! Edit folks still use OS 9 and QXP4.

Our conundrum, of late, is the disparate output results of our newly implemented INDYCS2 + SNAP Profile vs. the long-time trooper QXP4 + no CMS. We are all still feeling our way around the whole concept of how Quark and INDY could potentially commingle. Right now they donít like each other a whole lot.

What are the implications, as you know them to be, when implementing INDYCS2 with an existing QXP4 environment? Any nugget of insight would be appreciated.

Much thanks,

macstudent
Feb 22, 2007, 07:11 AM
Your editorial department should look into using Adobe Incopy. It is the companion to Indesign for editors. It lets them edit native indesign files. Check out adobe's webpage for more information.

techgrl89
Feb 22, 2007, 08:17 AM
macstudent- we did flirt with InCopy for EDIT, but the page designers wanted more reach and functionality, while the reporters and peripherals will sumbit content via standard word processing means. I have a copy of InCopy for WIN - I want to be able to integrate it into the workflow for my own use. Thank you for your reply!

SwiftLives
Feb 22, 2007, 08:48 AM
At the newspaper where I used to work, I switched us from OS9/QXP4 to OS X/ID CS2 a few years ago.

And it was practically seamless.

ID CS2 opened Quark Files 95% of the time 95% correctly. The biggest problem we ran into was whenever we had created a custom path or converted text to outlines in Quark. Occasionally some text might shift, but it was nothing that caused any major delays.

A few weeks later, we switched to InCopy. Previously, the production department had made all of the editorial corrections. After switching to InCopy, there was no longer a need for us to do that. The biggest thing to remember about InCopy is that InDesign will treat a story as it does a picture or image - via a link. And if the story is updated, you get a little warning icon telling you so.

The other advantage to InCopy is that the editorial department can actually see the layout of the page, therefore they know how much copy to write in order to fit the space. They cannot make changes to the layout.

There were a few bumps in switching to InCopy, but once we figured it out, it made life much easier.

As for switching from Quark to ID and OS 9 to OS X, I was pleasantly surprised as to how easy it was.

techgrl89
Feb 22, 2007, 09:08 AM
hobgobble- the edit folks who will be getting INDYCS3 also design their pages, so InCopy is not a viable option for them. And the reporters don't need anything as savvy as InCopy to type a story and upload it to the server.:)

As far as the QXP4 to INDYCS2 conversion, we would have been fine if both contributing departments would have done the switch together, but it wasn't so. Also, the Ad Design dept has OS X Intel boxes- buggy as he!!. So we anxiously await CS3 and the EDIT to join the club. It's all about money though, and we may have to wait at least a year before the funds are let go for the EDIT conversion! UGH!

SwiftLives
Feb 22, 2007, 09:24 AM
Yeah - InCopy sounds like overkill for you. I worked at a large weekly newspaper where I was the production manager. I was essentially in charge of making sure ads got built and making sure the paper made it to the press on time and relatively error free. We were set up where the editors would post edited stories, and the production department would lay them out.

I do know that InDesign CS2 will cooperate with Microsoft Word stylesheets. (i.e. a stylesheet in InDesign with the same name as one in Word will import perfectly). That may be worth looking into to help your workflow a bit.

We submitted all of our files to the printer as PDFs. Exporting a PDF directly from InDesign caused problems, so we took the pages to a Postscipt file and used Distiller to convert them to PDFs. I'm not sure what the difference is in the PDF file created, but there apparently is one. As far as I can tell, it's best to use Distiller to make print/press-ready PDFs, and use Export from ID to make any necessary proofs.

ID also cooperates much better than Quark with importing PDFs.

I will say part of the reason our switch went so well is because I worked about 20 consecutive days preparing for it. Things such as installing OS X on the computers, setting up fonts in Suitcase, converting stylesheets, etc. All of this prepwork helped make the transition as seamless as possible. Very little training was required. We did purchase a InDesign Classroom in a Book which we would consult with our questions. That's a good thing to have around.

It sounds like you work at a much larger publication, so I'm not sure how much this helps. But if you have any more questions, PM me or holler back at me on this thread.

techgrl89
Feb 22, 2007, 09:36 AM
hobgobble- yes, our reporters would certainly not want the "lavish" app that is InCopy, and it would not be enough for our designers. Your mention abour exporting PDFs from INDY is an age-old battle (PDF-creation, in general). The distiller is still the work truck I prefer, as well.

Yes, Paragraph Styles, mapping and Show Import Options are fine INDY features that do, in fact, work. In my training sessions, I introduced the concept to a few of ther designers that I thought MAY use it in the future. We had a month and a half-long training schedule. 3 x 3 they cam iand spent 4 hours per session. Beginning with basic concepts (we built on the similarities to QXP4), kicking out sample ads and finally moving into the live workflow, 4 workstations at a time. By the 1st of this year we were totally INDY in the Ad Design dept. It has been a daily re-evaluation process to try to get the color profiles to jive with the Quark/no CMS files. Fun times.

In summary, we had the bulk of the folks who only knew rote functions in Quark (with limited Adobe-line knowledge) attempting to grasp the profound concepts of INDYCS2. Obviously, the folks who were PS users jumped aboard quickly and were the first to work live. We had a smaller group that needed a few extra weeks on light duty!

Thank you for your groovy input.