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the future
May 28, 2003, 03:34 AM
The nerve these people have is just baffling...

German site heise.de (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/anw-27.05.03-005/) reports that our dear friends at Micro$oft suddenly cry for... wait for it... FAIR COMPETITION!

What happened? Well, basically the city of Munich/Germany needed new Software for 14.000 Computers, requested offers and then the city council decided IBM/Linux was the way to go. As Micro$oft obviously saw this decision as a precedent that other (german) citys would maybe follow, Steve Ballmer personally went to Munich and made another offer, drastically lower than Micro$ofts first offer. Now the city council of Munich had the insolence to not fall down on their knees and thank God for the lower offer from Micro$oft but show it to the IBM/Linux camp who then made an lower offer themselves that the city council subsequently accepted.

Upon hearing this, Micro$oft made ANOTHER last-minute offer that was ANOTHER 7 million Euros (approx. 7 million USD) lower than their already lowered 2nd offer - but the city council STILL decided to get Linux on their Comps because (quote) "it's also a strategic decision to free ourselves from a company that aggressivly defends their monopoly-like market position".

It's just very ironic how Micro$oft, who in so many well-known cases stopped at absolutely nothing to destroy their competition, now cry for "fairness" just because someone dared to take the offer of another company.

Well, the final voting in the city council is today, so keep your fingers crossed that there will be no last-minute twist to this story...

Jaykay
May 28, 2003, 03:59 AM
I think i might just have to move there. . . . .

maradong
May 28, 2003, 05:05 AM
me too... :D
by the way the beer happens to be really good there :D

iJon
May 28, 2003, 07:50 AM
well since this software they are looking at is ibm/linux, is the software free?

iJon

the future
May 28, 2003, 08:28 AM
There is no specific information at heise.de about the software to be included in this deal apart from Linux as a client OS (certain Linux distros are not for free, are they?) and open source office software (OpenOffice?).

the future
May 28, 2003, 10:59 AM
It's official now! The city council of Munich made their final vote + will migrate to Linux! Man, that's so very UNFAIR towards Micro$oft...

homeshire
May 28, 2003, 11:20 AM
rock on Deutschland!:D

RHutch
May 28, 2003, 11:26 AM
This story has made my day. I know that it is a small victory and that it is not really better for Apple. But I still love it that people are choosing !MS. Every day I hope that people will be smart enough to see what is going on and move away from MS and PC's. I know that many people say Apple has to offer more compelling reasons to switch, but I'm afraid that too many people will never see how good switching would be.

Oh well. Three cheers for the city council in Munich. And boo hoo for The Evil Empire. :p

cubist
May 28, 2003, 11:31 AM
The article also quoted a minister as doubting the sincerity of Microsoft's third offer. The Linux distro is SuSE, which is not free but has a very good installation package and includes good support.

pgwalsh
May 28, 2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by the future
There is no specific information at heise.de about the software to be included in this deal apart from Linux as a client OS (certain Linux distros are not for free, are they?) and open source office software (OpenOffice?). That's great news... Didn't we recently see a post where M$ would do almost anything to win foreign contracts.... That M$ even set aside a special budget... Nice to see that $$$ isn't everything and people are switching even if it isn't Apple. :(


:D

the future
May 28, 2003, 01:36 PM
[i]Nice to see that $$$ isn't everything and people are switching even if it isn't Apple. :( [/B]

Well, at least some of the money goes to our new best friends, the PPC 970 producing IBM...

Doctor Q
May 28, 2003, 01:40 PM
I'm surprised M$ didn't offer to pay the city to use Windows. If they did, maybe the city would still have refused the offer on principle! :)

jethroted
May 28, 2003, 02:37 PM
I love this story. It's so rare that M$ gets the "stiff one eye". There will be a revolution, and one day M$ will fall. Now brothers! Take up arms (ipods?) and join me!

GeneR
May 29, 2003, 01:59 PM
You know, M$ got a RAW deal. :D
I mean, I'm really bummed for them, man. :D
Really, really, really bummed for them... :D
Wow. How am I going to get through the day now that I know that M$ didn't get the Munich account? O woe! O woe's the world! :D

Huked on Fonick
Jun 4, 2003, 02:28 AM
Poor Microsoft, I hope they will be happy with Linux but, Linux doesent seem to be a very good Os for what they are useing ti for, running desktop PCS its not the most efficient OS i would have to say windows is more efficient than Linux, but maybe things will work out......

shadowfax
Jun 6, 2003, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
Poor Microsoft, I hope they will be happy with Linux but, Linux doesent seem to be a very good Os for what they are useing ti for, running desktop PCS its not the most efficient OS i would have to say windows is more efficient than Linux, but maybe things will work out...... yeah, it's too bad they couldn't do macs, but that would have been REALLY pricy, no doubt. Linux is not a hard OS, once you warm up to it. i think their sticking to principles will be rewarded.

Doctor Q
Jun 9, 2003, 12:11 PM
Computerworld newspaper (June 2, 2003, page 20) says that Orlando Ayala, Microsoft's head of worldwide sales, e-mailed Steve Ballmer and others at Microsoft saying it was corporate strategy to persuade governments not to forsake Windows for Linux. Computerworld says the e-mail made the point that "If deals were in jeopardy, Microsoft reps were to draw from a special slush fund to either discount or make Windows software available for free." They quote Ayala as saying "Under NO circumstances lose againast Linux." The fund in question had $180 million earmarked for these discounts. That's a lot of slush.

iMook
Jun 9, 2003, 08:03 PM
Microsoft isn't a friendly fuzzy bugaloo bear that one can hug and say "How was your day?" to. But, this doesn't mean that it's the Satan incarnate that so many "open-minded" Mac lovers make it out to be. Microsoft is aggressively trying to ensure market share, plain and simple. I doubt that if Apple had the upper hand, Mac lovers would be so hair-trigger eager to bash Microsoft. They're just trying to make oodles of money. Heck, I think any business-minded person would try to do what they're doing.

Many mention that Microsoft is ruthless when it comes to pushing for contracts, and now their claiming unfairness. Do none of you see this as just an extension of their business ruthlessness?

I'm not bashing Mac lovers, but you need to look at it from Microsoft's business perspective.

How many of you would let a potential pay cut (albeit a small one) go without a fight? The only difference is that Microsoft is playing around with a few more zeros.
It's a competition, and Microsoft is smart enough to not let things slide just because they're on top.




I'm going to get flamed for this...
so much for open-mindedness.

Doctor Q
Jun 9, 2003, 11:16 PM
You won't get flamed by me. Every business is out to make money, and some, like Microsoft, are definitely more aggressive than others. The article I quoted also mentions that certain Microsoft practices, such as planting phony testimonial letters to the editor, that are seemingly tolerated in the U.S. are looked upon much more seriously in Europe and that Microsoft's reputation is therefore worse there.

shadowfax
Jun 9, 2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by iMook
Many mention that Microsoft is ruthless when it comes to pushing for contracts, and now their claiming unfairness. Do none of you see this as just an extension of their business ruthlessness? i sure do. that's why i hate it so. this is part of business ruthlessness, if you ask me.

cc bcc
Jun 11, 2003, 04:34 PM
I agree with iMook, MS is not to blaim for their success. They are a bussiness, and their goal is to make money and to survive.

The only ones to blaim are the various governments of the countries where MS sells software, and to a lesser extend the people that buy their software. (sometimes you just have to buy it.. and you can't blaim people for not knowing about MS dirty but apparently legal bussiness ethics)
It's the responisability of governments to adjust their laws to the rapidly changing software industry and to stop monopolies wherever possible. They have let it gone out of hand. Fix it please.
I think all governments should promote open source and even run their systems on open source. I don't want my tax money wasted on MS and I don't want my privacy in their hands. I also think that a government needs to be transparent and so their software must be transparent as well.
Where does my personal data go, when it's stored on windows based computers? Can anyone check this?

Doctor Q
Jun 11, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by cc bcc
I think all governments should promote open source and even run their systems on open source. I don't want my tax money wasted on MS and I don't want my privacy in their hands. I also think that a government needs to be transparent and so their software must be transparent as well.
Where does my personal data go, when it's stored on windows based computers? Can anyone check this? Having the government use open source software might let you make assumptions about the security level and capabilities of their software, but it won't answer your "where does my personal data go?" question.

To answer your question, you'd have to start with their stated privacy policy. Then you'd want to know, somehow, if the government employees, and their subcontractors, actually follow these policies when accumulating, distributing, sharing, and purging personal data. And then, even if they use open source operating systems, open source end-user applications, and open-source development tools, you'd still need to see the source code of the applications they developed with those development tools to know if the software follows the proper procedures.

It seems unlikely that you'll ever get this much help in learning how the government uses your personal data.

cc bcc
Jun 12, 2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
And then, even if they use open source operating systems, open source end-user applications, and open-source development tools, you'd still need to see the source code of the applications they developed with those development tools to know if the software follows the proper procedures.

I figured some nerd might do that for me. :) (nothing wrong with nerds, I'm one myself in a way)
You right about privacy, only thing I can say is that it will make me trust my government more when they choose open source on principle grounds.

Ugg
Jun 21, 2003, 11:46 PM
Link (http://www.observer.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,982275,00.html)

It looks as though Germany and Europe are perhaps turning their backs on M$ more than might have been thought according the above article in The Guardian.

If so, then there might one day be a multi-polar world with the US dependent upon redmond and the EU using the Finnish guy's system.

Heltik
Jun 22, 2003, 02:53 PM
In my opinion, this is a bad thing, but hear me out.

I don't hate Microsoft, but I hate most of their products. That's nothing personal against the company, or, dare I say, Bill Gates. Just that in my opinion they make worse products.

That been said, I would rather that they had won this deal than Linux. Think about it. The success of Linux is the WORST thing for Apple. Okay, it proves the benefits of open source, but, say every Wintel user adopted Linux as the preferred platform. Then there should be even smaller product differentiation which would drive people to 'switch' to Mac.

Right now, we can claim that we have a totally different operating system. But as soon as the world uses Linux, which will rapidly develop into a stable and inexpensive consumer operating system, why would new users spend more for a Mac? Where would the perceived value be? - Especially if the Intel/AMD chips, to the average man in the street, still appear significantly faster than the Moto/IBM variants used by Apple. Right now, we barely compete for new users against an operating system that *is* expensive.

Other than that. Are those numbers correct? A third price cut that was roughly $7million dollars cheaper? For 14,000 computers? That's $500 per machine? Strikes me as a lot for just an OS?

I only hope that the possible new additions to the Mac line-up are as strong as has been rumoured at.

ouketii
Jun 30, 2003, 10:27 PM
apple does benefit from microsoft charging so much for their products. it allows apple to have high prices. but there is not the threat of linux taking marketshare from apple. it has no major centralized force to make it a desktop contender. with so many distros, the average user from windows woldnt be able to figure it out. linux survives because of the distros, but won't grow because of them.