Terrorism and the Internet....

[krossfyter]

Terrorism and the Internet are related in two ways. First, the Internet has become a forum for terrorist groups and individual terrorists both to spread their messages of hate and violence and to communicate with one another and with sympathizers. Secondly, individuals and groups have tried to attack computer networks, including those on the Internet ú what has become known as cyberterrorism or cyberwarfare.

At this point, terrorists are using the Internet more than they are attacking it. At least 12 of the 30 groups on the State Department's list of designated foreign terrorist organizations maintain Web sites on the Internet. While U.S. officials believe that some terrorists use encrypted E-mail to plan acts of terrorism, most groups appear to use the Internet to spread their propaganda. Some of these groups have actually participated in hacking our websites and there have been plans to do serious damage to our ree trade economy.



My question is should we get our guys with pony tails, who are obviously more smarter and better equiped at hacking, to screw thie terrorists over and have the american government to give awards to those hackers that uncover a terrorist plot or anything else that leads to thier capture?
Whos for it? Is this a good idea? Or am Is this lame?

[jefhatfield]

in the long run, cyberterrorism is america's number one threat

the defense department thinks that white hats could save the day

that is ************

and in 1941, the defense department thought the battleship was more important than the aircraft carrier

being an american, i am so ashamed at our arrogrance...i am a good techie, not a genius mind you, but i am smart enough to know that the "talent" lives outside of the us

look at who apple, ibm, and oracle are hiring

go to westtech job fair, and you will see, most of the job applicants for the techie jobs are from other countries

so while we rich americans are using our computers to get the high score on a first shooter game, poorer countries like china and india use their computers to code and program...it is their version of gaming per se...i am just in awe of the foreign born IT talent in the silicon valley...larry ellison is so happy to have them, that he has an international menu (with a lot of indian food) at the emerald empire called oracle

[stoid]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
being an american, i am so ashamed at our arrogrance...i am a good techie, not a genius mind you, but i am smart enough to know that the "talent" lives outside of the us

look at who apple, ibm, and oracle are hiring

go to westtech job fair, and you will see, most of the job applicants for the techie jobs are from other countries

so while we rich americans are using our computers to get the high score on a first shooter game, poorer countries like china and india use their computers to code and program...it is their version of gaming per se...i am just in awe of the foreign born IT talent in the silicon valley...larry ellison is so happy to have them, that he has an international menu (with a lot of indian food) at the emerald empire called oracle

my thoughts exactly jef, american's are/were really intelligent, and built a society of unparrelleled posperity, my only question is, how long can we sit on our hands, and expect to survive, it seems like education today is not as strong as it once was, howlong will it take for a country that really cares to overpower the US, and what will the reaction be to becoming number 2 in the world, all my life the US has been number 1 in the world by far, but what if...

sorry this post is so depressing ad morbid, I hope no one is offended

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by stoid


my thoughts exactly jef, american's are/were really intelligent, and built a society of unparrelleled posperity, my only question is, how long can we sit on our hands, and expect to survive, it seems like education today is not as strong as it once was, howlong will it take for a country that really cares to overpower the US, and what will the reaction be to becoming number 2 in the world, all my life the US has been number 1 in the world by far, but what if...

sorry this post is so depressing ad morbid, I hope no one is offended

for awhile, we shared top dog status militarily with russia and economicially with japan, but we still came out on top

the world's first world power was china, and as they are becomong less communist and more like us and go telecom all the way, they will be the next world power in fifty years but i won't be around to see that anyway but it is my guess from what i have seen since the communist hardliners have been ousted one by one in china

tianamen square was a warning shot and spelled the end of chinese communism...look where your shoes are made, you telephone, or even parts from your computer...it is from a capitalist nation called...china

also, they have done nothing to change hong kong and if anything, it's been the other way around

the chinese have learned from the last two great world empires that influenced them, the us and england

china will, in a sense, be the next great "westernized" power

[mac15]

so kill sadam and bin ladin

[jefhatfield]

bin laden is dead most likely, but sadaam will be much harder to flush out since he has a nation backing him and an army of 100,000 or more and large weapons, where as bin laden had only small arms and 1,000 followers officially scattered about the globe (maybe up to 50 trained al qaeda in the usa)

world peace is the only real answer since flushing out every terrorist is truly impossible

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
world peace is the only real answer since flushing out every terrorist is truly impossible

Hear, hear!
I pray that when I have children they will not have to see another 911, or chaos like in the Middle-East. The fighting going on between the Israelis and Palestinians is getting worse by the day, and our government, the "International Peacekeepers" that we are, has done nothing since Clinton left office. As far as world peace goes, we need a government with international experience and sensitivity. Americans have been arrogant and elitist for way too long.
How many Americans speak more than one language? I'd be surprised if it was 15%.
Compare that to people from other countries, where multiples languages/dialects are a part of daily life, and you see the trouble we are in.

[jefhatfield]

if we had elitism before, it is now gone

we are 1 planet

[krossfyter]

to oust saddam... actually would probably be easier then the gulf war and slightly harder than getting rid of the taliban in afghanistan. along with the 100,000 people who follow the punk...he also has that much that want him out in his area. all america has to do is help this people out..by arming them and training them. could be! will see.

[krossfyter]

i heard that they tapped/cracked into bin ladens cell phone. now if I can can find out what service he has...

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krossfyter
to oust saddam... actually would probably be easier then the gulf war and slightly harder than getting rid of the taliban in afghanistan. along with the 100,000 people who follow the punk...he also has that much that want him out in his area. all america has to do is help this people out..by arming them and training them. could be! will see.

i think we ousted the taliban, it's now the thing to see how brutal the northern alliance turns out to be

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krossfyter
i heard that they tapped/cracked into bin ladens cell phone. now if I can can find out what service he has...

i am conviced bin's dead, but he's just the tip of the iceberg

he's not any head, just another soldier, who's rich, but out to get us when we are not looking if he's still around someow

kill bin, then ya make him a hero

[Beej]

I highly doubt we'll ever seen any proof that bin laden is dead.

But getting back to the topic...
Encouraging the hacking of terrorist websites and the like is kind of like encouraging people to assassinate any political leader the US government happens to find annoying.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


i am conviced bin's dead, but he's just the tip of the iceberg

he's not any head, just another soldier, who's rich, but out to get us when we are not looking if he's still around someow

kill bin, then ya make him a hero


true but he is a symbol. kill him kill the symbol. to them he is then a hero if he is dead....well screw it he is a hero already. as long as he is gone.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by Beej
I highly doubt we'll ever seen any proof that bin laden is dead.

But getting back to the topic...
Encouraging the hacking of terrorist websites and the like is kind of like encouraging people to assassinate any political leader the US government happens to find annoying.


not really...one deals with death the other deals with no death just screwing with someones space.


thier still alive.

[Beej]

What if someone hacks some taliban dude's machine and finds out exactly where bin laden is? The US government will pounce and bang. He's dead. Regardless of whether this is a good or bad thing, information you have provided has led to the death of a human (?).

[jefhatfield]

PERSONALLY, on a gut level, toss him off a cliff

but to cut back on future zealous attacks, detain bin laden...forever...secretly

i am sure many thought that charles manson should have been executed, but that would have set off his followers who were not detained...i am sure he had a plan for his flock if he were executed

same goes for son of sam

same goes for bin laden

unfortunately, he is a small part of a bigger problem

[krossfyter]

yep.... i really dont care if the son of a beetch is dead or alive but detained by america. so as long as he can never do what he wants again.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by Beej
What if someone hacks some taliban dude's machine and finds out exactly where bin laden is? The US government will pounce and bang. He's dead. Regardless of whether this is a good or bad thing, information you have provided has led to the death of a human (?).


if its bin laden....then why argue!:D

but i see your point...however, its quite different to have the american government aid americans to assasinate others as opposed to aid them to hack into thier sitnky jihad mainframes.

[jefhatfield]

somewhere in this multi-front war, israel will have to cede some of jerusalem...other land just won't do for the long term

jeruslem is the most hotly contested piece of land in the world and sharing it will avoid needless bloodshed for centuries since it is the spiritual seat of three major world religions

[evildead]

What I don't like is that software pirates and Mp3 traders are being called Terrorists. The Fed. Gov. and lobbyists have been trying to get laws passed to make College kids with Mp3's and over priced hot copies of crappy MS products on their HD, Terrorists. I cant believe that they are lumping real terrorists with a software pirates. Breaking in the to Pentagon computer system has been said to be the same as having a copy of Harry Potter on your Laptop.

What's wrong with people?

[Beej]

If having mp3s qualifies me as a terrorist, I'm a big one :D

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
somewhere in this multi-front war, israel will have to cede some of jerusalem...other land just won't do for the long term

jeruslem is the most hotly contested piece of land in the world and sharing it will avoid needless bloodshed for centuries since it is the spiritual seat of three major world religions


that will never happen. even if it does palestine wont stop there because thier ultimate goal is the iradication of the jew. its about land... a 2000+ year old land issue mind you and about the death of the jew.

this is what i see happening (for real) in the future...

the dome of the rock will be destroyed and the new one built, isreal will launch a nuclear strike into palestiniane territory and the arab poplulation will take a significate hit.


peace will never come from treaties or accords...not not by man.

[evildead]

Originally posted by Beej
If having mp3s qualifies me as a terrorist, I'm a big one :D

hahaha.. yeah.. most of us probably would be ... and the worst part is we probably wouldnt even know it. I cant wait untill any information trasnaction of any kind with the use of the internet will be called an act of Terrorism. We are going to have to start using 3DES encription keys just to get in to macrumors.com and fight about Apple PDA's

[748s]

some interesting comments about a number of subjects. the sad thing is the tone of most of them will ensure history will repeat. i'm always amazed at the contradictions of your society. calling for world peace and a new world order, yet hollywood churns out killfest after killfest as entertainment. a porn industry that is held in high regard because it is good for the economy. you murder each other daily, on a scale unprecedented in other countries. the foreign policy of the usa treats other nations as ****. usa goverments and companies have slaughtered citizens of other countries without a second thought. it scares the **** out of me that your country could easily destroy the world with your piles of weapons of mass destruction. there are none so blind as those who will not see.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by 748s
some interesting comments about a number of subjects. the sad thing is the tone of most of them will ensure history will repeat. i'm always amazed at the contradictions of your society. calling for world peace and a new world order, yet hollywood churns out killfest after killfest as entertainment. a porn industry that is held in high regard because it is good for the economy. you murder each other daily, on a scale unprecedented in other countries. the foreign policy of the usa treats other nations as ****. usa goverments and companies have slaughtered citizens of other countries without a second thought. it scares the **** out of me that your country could easily destroy the world with your piles of weapons of mass destruction. there are none so blind as those who will not see.





yea yea... we have all heard this before.... yadda yadda....america is the root of all that is ill in the world....america is the great satan...yadda yadda...blah blah blah..etc. etc.

truth is.... while america has done a lot of bad it has also done a lot of good.... but wheres the praises????

its contributed positively and negativly to society as a whole...like no other country... why? with great power come great responsibility... fact is...if any other country was in ameircas position right now....they wouldnt last....they would just enclose them selves. i hear time and time again about america and all its wrongs...but where are the praises for its rights? everyone loves to be a conformist and diss america.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krossfyter






yea yea... we have all heard this before.... yadda yadda....america is the root of all that is ill in the world....america is the great satan...yadda yadda...blah blah blah..etc. etc.

truth is.... while america has done a lot of bad it has also done a lot of good.... but wheres the praises????

its contributed positively and negativly to society as a whole...like no other country... why? with great power come great responsibility... fact is...if any other country was in ameircas position right now....they wouldnt last....they would just enclose them selves. i hear time and time again about america and all its wrongs...but where are the praises for its rights? everyone loves to be a conformist and diss america.

two hundred and some years ago in the 13 colonies under england, if we dissed authority, we paid dearly for it

the whole idea that we shed blood to fight england is so that we can live in a country where we can diss ourselves or praise ourselves and not get jailed for it...it's freedom of speech and it's the number one reason thousands of americans died for their country

our elcetions are dirty and the people voting for the president feel free to criticize them up and down, but they do so knowing that it is a part of our democratic process...burning the flag, while i don't do it, is also a way to protest against ourselves if needed...radio talk show hosts blasting george bush, however cruel they might be for radio ratings, is also a part of our free speech

sometimes freedom looks ugly to others but it is what we signed up for when we built this nation

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krossfyter



that will never happen. even if it does palestine wont stop there because thier ultimate goal is the iradication of the jew. its about land... a 2000+ year old land issue mind you and about the death of the jew.

this is what i see happening (for real) in the future...

the dome of the rock will be destroyed and the new one built, isreal will launch a nuclear strike into palestiniane territory and the arab poplulation will take a significate hit.


peace will never come from treaties or accords...not not by man.

someone, i think it was billy graham, said that we most likely won't solve the huge problems in the middle east thru human means, but thru prayer

this might sound funny to some, but even if you don't belive in god, how could prayer possibly hurt?

and if you belive in god, then you know that prayer will help the middle east

people from all faiths have been praying for peace in this region, and man's stubborn hatred of his neighbor is not as strong as god's love and his willingness to answer our prayers for middle east peace...sometimes, things take time though

there will be peace in israel one day

[beatle888]

In response to 748

I know americans are so worthless arent we?
You dumb ****.


Your just lucky america is dominant
and not Russia, or China, what is your
country doing for you, asking america
for some kind of aid?

I wouldnt say America is the PERFECT
country but you should thank our lucky
stars that we dont come in and take over
your grungie little world and make you
conform to our religions and our customs
and turn you into slaves and other lessor
types.

What the hell do you want from Americans anyway.
We open our doors to you. We offer you aid.

I guess Americans worthy only when they act in
YOUR best interest.

Well grow up cow dung. For the most part the US
is a wonderful country.

[King Cobra]

If I remember correctly, this forum was about Terrorism on the Internet. Yes, there probably are encrypted messages and, yes, there might be more to come.

My opinion is that since Terror has moved to the internet, there might be another worm or computer virus going around, most likely to affect the virus-prone PCs.

Referring back to maybe posts 10-15 of this topic I don't think that Bin Laden should be pushed off a cliff, or anything like that. His death would not be as painful as the 5000 who suffered from the 9-11 attacks.

Tomorrow (March 11) will be a half a year after these attacks. I swear to Pete that someone delivers Been Lay-den to America and have him handed his own . . .

So tomorrow, America, a nation of unprecidented unity and reformation, will stand up and remove their hats, and they will Pledge Allegiance to the Flag with a stronger voice than ever before. We will deliver an end to Terrorism in the World and on the Internet
__________________________

P.S. If 748s doesn't feel any remorse for our country, then come to New York. You will never find more united people in the world.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


two hundred and some years ago in the 13 colonies under england, if we dissed authority, we paid dearly for it

the whole idea that we shed blood to fight england is so that we can live in a country where we can diss ourselves or praise ourselves and not get jailed for it...it's freedom of speech and it's the number one reason thousands of americans died for their country

our elcetions are dirty and the people voting for the president feel free to criticize them up and down, but they do so knowing that it is a part of our democratic process...burning the flag, while i don't do it, is also a way to protest against ourselves if needed...radio talk show hosts blasting george bush, however cruel they might be for radio ratings, is also a part of our free speech

sometimes freedom looks ugly to others but it is what we signed up for when we built this nation


while i see your point and agree with you....i dont think the other guy who criticized america so much was actually from america. if he was..then its in his best interest to leave since he does not like america...if he wasnt then his fine where he is... i only wonder if he has as a good amount of freedom in his country.

if one is burning the flag and is in america while at it.... i only see one option open to such an individual (understanding freedom of speech and all as you pointed out) .... leave our country if you dont like it. seems only logical..doesn it? i mean i see it as hypocritical to be ragging on america and its way of life while living here and taking part in our way of life etc. etc.

but i hear ya man.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


someone, i think it was billy graham, said that we most likely won't solve the huge problems in the middle east thru human means, but thru prayer

this might sound funny to some, but even if you don't belive in god, how could prayer possibly hurt?

and if you belive in god, then you know that prayer will help the middle east

people from all faiths have been praying for peace in this region, and man's stubborn hatred of his neighbor is not as strong as god's love and his willingness to answer our prayers for middle east peace...sometimes, things take time though

there will be peace in israel one day


i believe both you and I know that peace in the middle east wont come until Jesus comes. until then its going to be close to bloddy hell...with 7 years of false peace.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krossfyter



i believe both you and I know that peace in the middle east wont come until Jesus comes. until then its going to be close to bloddy hell...with 7 years of false peace.

in seminary school, this topic wasn't one thing that any person was completely concrete on...the end was thought by the apostles to be imminent in their time...some thought later in the first century...some thought at the convenient year 1000...some thought it will happen around now (2000) or still many years in the future

though no man or woman knows the exact times of the unfolding of the book of revelation, one thing is certain, praying for peace is never against god's word in the old testament or in these more modern times

like i have mentioned, my employee belongs to a cult and they (their huge church) were certain the end was 1914 even though it was spelled in black and white that no one would know the date of the second coming of christ...now that cult is saying it is imminent as they have always been saying since 1914

i do give them this...1914 was the start of the world's first war and to the human race at the time, it did look like the end of civilization...but in the end, they were wrong

when do i think there will be an end to the world? when no one anywhere is proclaiming it or expecting it

[jvaska]

peace through understanding...that's all...jv

[mymemory]

People, you are really naive if you think that killing Bin Laden or Husein this thing is gonna end. The whole thing is just starting and is getting out of the US hands, just because of incomprehention more than arrogancy.

Take a look at south america for a moment. Forget about tacos and la cucaracha.

Right now there is a very important socialist a comunist movement in europe and south america. Why is this happening? actually and because of the abuse of the globalization, manny countries are getting poorer. That means a lot of people with a lower intelectual level by the way. That is a perfect scenario for comunist to start pointing capitalism (basicly the US) as the enemy.

Right now in Argentina, manny socialist groups are moving people against the "monster of capitalism". The same thing is happening in Colombia, Brazil and in Venezuela. The end of this people is to do just what Fidel Castro is doing "to live from the people", because comunism is just for that, a very small group of people that wash the brain with some idealistic movement and then they are gonna make them work for a minority. No mid class, just lower class.

The US can not stop what really is going on in the americas and in europe. The problem is that now you can not reconize the enemy, can be anybody, just what happened in Vietnam. This is a intelligence war to mantain the democracy.

From here we can see that the US can not do anything to control everything. With the war at Afganistan they have too many problems already.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


in seminary school, this topic wasn't one thing that any person was completely concrete on...the end was thought by the apostles to be imminent in their time...some thought later in the first century...some thought at the convenient year 1000...some thought it will happen around now (2000) or still many years in the future

though no man or woman knows the exact times of the unfolding of the book of revelation, one thing is certain, praying for peace is never against god's word in the old testament or in these more modern times

like i have mentioned, my employee belongs to a cult and they (their huge church) were certain the end was 1914 even though it was spelled in black and white that no one would know the date of the second coming of christ...now that cult is saying it is imminent as they have always been saying since 1914

i do give them this...1914 was the start of the world's first war and to the human race at the time, it did look like the end of civilization...but in the end, they were wrong

when do i think there will be an end to the world? when no one anywhere is proclaiming it or expecting it


im not saying i know when the end is.. i know no one will know or get it right. however i believe one can get it right by saying it is going to happen in our life time.

anyways im not arguing for or against this....im simply saying that if one believes in the word of God as truth then its an absolute that its going to take Jesus to came back for permanent peace....the 7 years of flase peace is definitly before the return of Christ... (This is an absolute...is it not)... now the time it will happen nobody knows...i agree.

so basically im telling you that i believe there will not be any peace in the middle east until Jesus comes and sets up his kingdom on earth.

thats all man.

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by mymemory
People, you are really naive if you think that killing Bin Laden or Husein this thing is gonna end. The whole thing is just starting and is getting out of the US hands, just because of incomprehention more than arrogancy.

Take a look at south america for a moment. Forget about tacos and la cucaracha.

Right now there is a very important socialist a comunist movement in europe and south america. Why is this happening? actually and because of the abuse of the globalization, manny countries are getting poorer. That means a lot of people with a lower intelectual level by the way. That is a perfect scenario for comunist to start pointing capitalism (basicly the US) as the enemy.

Right now in Argentina, manny socialist groups are moving people against the "monster of capitalism". The same thing is happening in Colombia, Brazil and in Venezuela. The end of this people is to do just what Fidel Castro is doing "to live from the people", because comunism is just for that, a very small group of people that wash the brain with some idealistic movement and then they are gonna make them work for a minority. No mid class, just lower class.

The US can not stop what really is going on in the americas and in europe. The problem is that now you can not reconize the enemy, can be anybody, just what happened in Vietnam. This is a intelligence war to mantain the democracy.

From here we can see that the US can not do anything to control everything. With the war at Afganistan they have too many problems already.

If you are directing this towards me also then i want you to know that you are mis understanding what im saying.

Im not saying that by killing of bib laden americas problems will end. as well im not saying that thats the end of terrorism. im simply saying that just like hitler was the major symbol of natzism bin laden is the major symbol of terrorism. difference is obviously terrorism wont end when bin laden is gone.

take bin laden out... make a big statement.... a huge moral boost for the coalition and america. thats all.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krossfyter



im not saying i know when the end is.. i know no one will know or get it right. however i believe one can get it right by saying it is going to happen in our life time.

anyways im not arguing for or against this....im simply saying that if one believes in the word of God as truth then its an absolute that its going to take Jesus to came back for permanent peace....the 7 years of flase peace is definitly before the return of Christ... (This is an absolute...is it not)... now the time it will happen nobody knows...i agree.

so basically im telling you that i believe there will not be any peace in the middle east until Jesus comes and sets up his kingdom on earth.

thats all man.

some say that there won't be complete peace in the middle east until jesus comes and that i kind of believe

but the bloodshed going on in israel right now is at an all time high and the killing of innocents needs to stop and we can pray for an end to that bloodshed and the us and their allies could set up a peacekeeping force

i know my car will never be new again, but if my tires go bald, i get new ones:)

there needs to be some basic maintenance of peace in israel and i don't expect israel and palestine to be best buddies by next year

[mischief]

10,000 years of recorded history and Nations still behave like moody kids.

Israel/Palestine will not be one nation under either side. It must be one Nation TOGETHER. This behavior MUST STOP. Reality is reactive. All the rest of the world watching dismayed, saying "God stop these Idiots!" and eventually our collective disgust will bring down a meteor......square on the Temple mount. BAM. No one gets the Toy.

Terrorism is a symptom of a society so polarized between haves and have-nots that the have-nots are easily led into War. It is a call for help from an entire class of oppressed global peasants. We've ignored our little Banana Republics and now they're Rabid. Nations, like children must be CARED FOR. One cannot Rape and Abuse a nation and expect no justice any more than one can with a child.

911 was a terrible wakeup call. 5000 americans died for the abuses of two hundred years of western power-mongering. We must accept that for what it is, just as Israel must accept Palestine for what it is. The sins of our elite brought down the wrath of the oppressed on our own families.

There is an answer. It's subtle but incredibly powerful. We must have dialogue. Not as Nations or tribes or faiths but as people. What we are participating in here...... this forum......is the format. Anonimity and the confidence to express our personal views.

Hacking has been associated with Terrorism since Reagan. It's tripe. Hackers are usually either cow tipping or leaving a resume. It's not terrorism, it only ever goes as far as vandalism. Viruses....... virus Hackers ain't hackers, they're more like bio-warfare for Windows. The US government made Hacking a Terrorist act and made most of it's 'Net policies to limit the free flow of Data. It's about censorship and covering their own sold out butts.

[krossfyter]

i agree with both of you.

while i know the middle east will never see peace until Jesus I will still pray for some sort of help.


because that is my job.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krossfyter
i agree with both of you.

while i know the middle east will never see peace until Jesus I will still pray for some sort of help.


because that is my job.

help is good at this point